Whole Foods' John Mackey: We Must Change How We Think About Capitalism

The co-founder of Whole Foods discusses his new memoir, The Whole Story: Adventures in Love, Life, and Capitalism as he launches his new holistic health venture, Love.Life.

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Whole Foods' John Mackey: We Must Change How We Think About Capitalism

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Today's guest is John Mackey, the co-founder and former CEO of Whole Foods, who just released his memoir, The Whole Story: Adventures in Love, Life, and Capitalism. As befits the entrepreneur who revolutionized grocery shopping from a grim, pragmatic necessity into an exciting, multi-sensory adventure, Mackey's story is far from conventional and we talk frankly about the failures, successes, and psychedelics he encountered while reshaping how Americans think about food, fitness, and free enterprise. We also discuss Love.Life, the chain of holistic health and wellness clubs he's opening this summer.

00:00— Introduction
00:48— The Whole Story: Adventures in Love, Life, and Capitalism
03:45— Capitalism disrupts the status quo
07:57— Whole Foods' bumpy start
15:02— How to foster rich environments for capitalism & innovation
19:00— Why socialism ALWAYS fails
21:05— John Mackey's upbringing
26:38— Where is the next generation heading?
29:53— The Capitalism scapegoat
32:36— Ad: BankOnYourself.com
34:27— LSD and other psychedelics
38:15— Applying "Expand into love, don't contract into fear" to business
40:41— Conscious capitalism as a management philosophy
45:45— Unionization at Whole Foods
51:11— The pros & cons of selling Whole Foods to Amazon
59:48— Mackey's new venture: Love.Life
01:05:19— John Mackey's secrets to health
01:09:38— Capitalism: an infinite game

Previous appearances:

Whole Foods' John Mackey: 'I Feel Like Socialists Are Taking Over', August 10, 2022
Can 'Conscious Capitalism' Make Business a Heroic Enterprise? John Mackey Is Betting Yes, August 14, 2018
Whole Foods' John Mackey on Amazon Merger: 'A Meeting of the Souls.', March 30, 2018
Whole Foods' John Mackey on Veganism, Gary Johnson, and How Regulation Is Stunting Innovation, August 16, 2016
Whole Foods' John Mackey: Why Intellectuals Hate Capitalism August 12, 2015
John Mackey on Whole Foods, Conscious Capitalism, and Life Beyond the Profit Motive, March 21, 2013
Whole Foods CEO John Mackey on the Moral Case for Capitalism, August 10, 2012
John Mackey's Conscious Capitalism, Full Interview Version, October 14, 2009

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Comments

[Roberta]

Stop using the Marxist word "capitalism" if what you mean is free enterprise. "Capitalism" would mean rule by capital.

[JFree]

That is exactly what it means and is exactly what most of those who use the word 'capitalism' advocate. Rule by capital. Which is the reason that one of the alternatives from classical economics - eg laborism - is seen as the enemy.

Almost no one advocates 'free markets'. Or even understands what conditions those require.

[EdG]

The closest thing the US has to free markets is open air drug markets in cities where willing sellers come together with willing buyers to exchange money for drugs at market rate with no government interference other than a risk of arrest premium.

[JFree]

Even that is not a free market because most drugs are produced/distributed by cartels rather than by competition. And those cartels are probably the only way that enough profits from that trade can be siphoned off to pay for the massive arms/defense sector of that industry.

[ricbee]

Very true

[It's only a paper moon, Nominalists]

That is exactly wrong since it is the legal restrictions that create this 'freedom'. "risk of arrest' is your way of avoiding the facts.

Even where govt steps in to help with insulin and the unwilling folks who have to take it, all attempts to lower the price just seal in a higher price than would otherwise be the case !!!
"t takes only an estimated $2 to $4 to produce a vial of insulin."

So....free markets have 3 qualities
1) A moral government attentive to right and wrong, good and evil. 2) Declaration of certain things (eg insulin) as a public good. Ever wonder why diabetes has no cure? It would kill profits from insulin.
3) an Economics-informed citizenry

To make your case with drugs is a sign to me that you miss all of the above points

[Alberto Balsalm]

This. The terms 'socialism' and 'captialism' mean different things to different people. I prefer 'open market' or 'tax-payer funded' as descriptions.

[ricbee]

Mackey doesn't make that simple fact clear.

[The Mysterious Edwin Dunkel]

Whole Foods' John Mackey: We Must Change How We Think About Capitalism

Something tells me by the time we're through rethinking it, it won't look much like capitalism.

[Zeb]

Depends on who he is talking to, I think. "Anti-capitalists" could use some change in how they think about capitalism, for example.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Would an aluminum softball bat help them change?

[Wally]

That kind of questioning won't be tolerated....

[Dillinger]

"we must no longer do that which made me the rich!"

[Don't look at me!]

“I got mine, fuck you guys”.

[mad.casual]

The oblivious, modern, white, own-worship douchiness is strong with these Mackey stories as well.

In the last hundred years of capitalism only, what, 100? 500? other grocery chains have come and gone, to say nothing of relatively larger entities like Sears or Marshall Fields. I won’t hold my breath for Reason’s coverage of Dominick DiMatteo‘s thoughts on capitalism too.

The holistic health and wellness club in LA is just icing on the cake. Congrats Mackey! You've got all the ingenuity, market acumen, and global awareness of a long line of revolutionary capitalists like Gwyneth Paltrow, Farrah Fawcett, and Jenny McCarthy.

[Dillinger]

I want to make a "fun pile" joke but idk if I'd invite Gwyneth and Farrah's long gone may she r.i.p.

[ricbee]

Remember he started as a Hippie on a Commune.

[CE]

Yes. Capitalism should mean that capitalists invest their own money (or money freely invested by others), accept the risks, and reap the rewards (if any). No government subsidies or protectionism.

[Social Justice is neither]

And get rid of the zero sum thinking that ignores where all those jobs come from and how they came to be in the first place.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

If not for zero sum economic thinking progressives would have no economic thinking at all.

[CE]

The first step is to help people understand that profit is a good thing. Companies that earn profits are those that provide things people want, at prices people are willing to pay, while consuming less in resources to do so.

The second step is to help people understand that income (or wealth) inequality is a good thing. It's a sign that people are free to earn more by successfully taking risks, working harder, producing more, or innovating to create something new or better that people didn't know they need. And the people who create more wealth should be free to keep it, so they can create more, so everyone benefits. The alternative is for politicians to skim most of the profit off the top, and funnel the money to their supporters, who have no idea how to invest it to create more wealth.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But profit is unfair to people who don't want to make any effort, except to indulge envy and class hatred. Profit is also probably racist (the bad kind). And the purple-haired people told me that profit is mean to the earth and will make us all extinct again.

[Uncle Jay]

"Whole Foods' John Mackey: We Must Change How We Think About Capitalism."

1. No, we don't have to change how we think about capitalism.

2. Speaking of which, lower your prices. Otherwise, rename your company, "Whole Paycheck."

[Zeb]

1. Maybe he isn't talking about you or me.

2. He doesn't own it any more, does he?

[Rick James]

Were... were those tassels on Nick's jacket?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'Conscious capitalism as a management philosophy'

Conscious, like in always paying attention to business performance and finance? Or like in needing to give shit away to unconscious people?

[Rick James]

Ok, the whole medical thing kind of went off the rails for me.

[mad.casual]

I was off at "revolutionized grocery shopping from a grim, pragmatic necessity into an exciting, multi-sensory adventure".

If I had to pick one grocery store chain where I would expect to find people wearing masks *today* it would be Whole Foods.

[ricbee]

Yeah those rich SOB's don't want what poor people got.

[ricbee]

The Free market would provide better cheaper service after a short time

[It's only a paper moon, Nominalists]

A free market needs a moral framework or you are just unchaining those who make a living off enslaving others. Sumptuary taxes have the same moral basis as Cigarette warnings and warnings about harmful additives. I am not saying 'legislate morality" but in some things it is either X or not-X and one is immoral and evil enough for govenment to step in for the sake of the populace.

[car-keynes]

Why single out capitalism, specifically, when trade itself were the more wonderful idea? Capitalism itself happens to be prone to state action such as the seizure by the late Hugo Chavez of Venezuela’s electrical businesses to turn it into his exclusive socialist monopoly, whereas trade happens to be a basic human right that may be endeavored by anyone. Can you claim capitalism to be a basic human right? Because if you cannot, then perhaps capitalism is not accessible to people who have equal rights.

[ricbee]

He's wrong about Sports,there is a win win win,one champion and 100's with good jobs.