Where Do We Go To Get Our Mask Apology?

Plus: The editors reveal their favorite issues and articles from the Reason magazine catalog.

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Where Do We Go To Get Our Mask Apology?

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Nick Gillespie, and special guest Emma Camp look at the Cochrane Library's new study which concluded masks had "little or no difference" on COVID-19 and ponder a new Florida bill that proposes to remove legal protections against defamation lawsuits.

0:26: The Cochrane Library's review of masking trials

19:46: Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and the bill to remove legal protections against defamation lawsuits

39:46: Weekly Listener Question

52:31: This week's cultural recommendations

Mentioned in this podcast:

"Masks Make 'Little or No Difference' on COVID-19, Flu Rates: New Study," by Robby Soave

"A Scientific Review Shows the CDC Grossly Exaggerated the Evidence Supporting Mask Mandates," by Jacob Sullum

"The Real Science on Masks: They Make No Difference," by John Tierney

"The Perils of Trying To Curtail Hazily Defined 'Disinformation'," by Jacob Sullum

"U.S. State Department Funds a Disinformation Index That Warns Advertisers To Avoid Reason," by Robby Soave

"Ron DeSantis Wants To Rewrite Defamation Law," by Emma Camp

"Database Nation," by Declan McCullagh

"The Media Wildly Mischaracterized That Video of Covington Catholic Students Confronting a Native American Veteran," by Robby Soave

"In Praise of Vulgarity," Charles Paul Freund

"Both Left and Right Are Converging on Authoritarianism," by Stephanie Slade

October 2018: The Debate Issue

October 2022: The Authoritarian Convergence

August/September 2019 issue

July 2011: Criminal Injustice

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsor:

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Audio production by Ian Keyser

Assistant production by Hunt Beaty

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Denizens Third Party Triple

Emma Camp

• Sold a Story Podcast

Nick Gillespie

• The Philosophy of Modern Song

Matt Welch

• The Holyland Exhibition

---

Comments

[InsaneTrollLogic]

You think those jackasses will give an apology? Keep dreaming. It's a nice dream, but just a dream. They'll never apologize for what they've done, who they're hurt, and how dipshitty they acted. Although, here's a hint, next time, don't vote for the jackass party.

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[Nardz]

How the fuck is Reason using the word "we" in their headline when they pushed bullshit covid propaganda for a fucking year before finally voicing some tepid, limp wristed skepticism.

[Commenter_XY]

A year? Longer. They morphed into Branch Covidians early.

[Bill Falcon]

Wait didn't Reason favor masking up and shutting up? Or was that CATO the other "libertarian" stalwart?

The Mises caucus was the only libertarian group coming out against this stupidity. Reason? Abortion, open borders, sexual mutilation of kids...masks? Shut up peasant.

[Liberty Lover]

I would be happier to see Fauci and is dictatorial medical minions incarcerated for crimes against humanity over an apology.

[mad.casual]

I don't want an apology. I want it, all of it, to never happen again.

The fact that you assume I want an apology given politicians' MOs is a bit naive/insulting. I don't give a shit where you go to (not) get your disingenuous apologies.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

An apology would be a start down that road. Amnesty, on the other hand, is not.

Amnesty just says, "Hey, let's all go back to our corners, admit that mistakes were make, and let everyone return to their normal lives now. Punishing people doesn't solve anything."

At least an apology is admission that the person doing the apologizing was "wrong" and at some-- yes, probably superficial-- level has some contrition over it.

[mad.casual]

An apology would be a start down that road. Amnesty, on the other hand, is not.

You have more faith in them than I do. I think an apology from these people would simply be a formality that only, ever-so-slightly, delays them from doing it again.

And you really need to listen to KMW’s take just inside after the 2 min. mark (@2:22). The *mutual* apology and amnesty go hand-in-hand. No more actual contrition than allowing someone else to hold door open for you.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

You have more faith in them than I do. I think an apology from these people would simply be a formality that only, ever-so-slightly, delays them from doing it again.

I believe that the reason we haven’t gotten an apology (and have gotten a call for Amnesty) is because even as a formality it represents a step they just can’t stomach.

I believe that you’re right, that an apology would probably result in little change or reduction in likelihood it’ll happen again… but the fact that they abjectly refuse to apologize (while KNOWING they were wrong) tells you how strong an emotional reaction the mere thought of apologizing elicits.

[JesseAz]

Admitting the truth they knew and censored their enemies about is wrong would make them realize their censorship pushes are wrong. Which could lead to another Trump. Therefore they were never wrong. Sciencr changed. 100 years of masks being useless, 4 years they worked, and now back to them being useless. The Science is amazing.

[Theotis]

"100 years of masks being useless, 4 years they worked, and now back to them being useless."

Same with natural immunity.

I'm amazed that people are pretending like we're so much smarter today than ever before, and thus, everything we've learned should be thrown out and new hair-brained schemes must be tried instead.

We're also seeing it with energy: throw out all the sources that have been working for ages and rely on something developed 2 weeks ago. Also with education: we used to have a great education system. Then it came time to throw everything out that worked and try all new techniques - with abysmal results.

[mad.casual]

tells you how strong an emotional reaction the mere thought of apologizing elicits

To wit, I don’t care about any apologies. I’m not here to hurt or indulge their feelings. I only care that they might, in misunderstanding our discussion, accidentally take some action that can only ultimately, be resolved by shooting them in the face.

[perlmonger]

Bullets are expensive. Woodchippers (even at today's fuel prices) would be cheaper.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Arrows are reusable.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

So are crossbow bolts.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Rope

[Nardz]

The only way to stop it from happening again is to make capital examples of the guilty AND some npc enablers...

[Social Justice is neither]

First, an amnesty in no way is any sort of admission that mistakes were made, it's more like I assume any apology would be "we're sorry you feel that way, now moving on"

[Zeb]

I want to see apology, punishment and for it to never happen again. I'm not holding my breath, but these were crimes against humanity.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Since they are never going to admit they were wrong, there is only one option left.
https://i.imgflip.com/4c06yu.jpg

[B G]

In a way, they're ready to deliver on a promise that it'll "never happen again". In the minds of the officials who instigated it, it's all been put down the "memory hole", and whatever part of it did happen was clearly the fault of the President at the time (pay no attention to the central theme of their campaign having been that his lack of authoritarian reaction was the most important reason that he needed to go).

Since it didn't happen before, if it were to happen again, that would be the first time, in which case it can't possibly be "happening again"

As for an apology, why should they apologize for something that never happened, and if it did happen was all done by someone else?

Unfortunately, it's looking like their "solution" to making the trasition between war with Eurasia and war with Eastasia seamless is to provoke them both into teaming up and fighting them at the same time.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

You'll get your apology around the time people like Tony stop saying "what difference, at this point, does it make" on being proven wrong on everything ever.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Tony, admit to be wrong? That's unpossible! We all should know by now he (and the others of the Dork Brigade) are never wrong. 😛

[VULGAR MADMAN]

The new party line; “Nobody ever made you wear a mask, silly.”

[JesseAz]

Mike is still using that for vaccines. Sure you'd end up without a job, but your choice.

[Mother's Lament]

That's why he's so repellent.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Mike is the White Knight of the Dork Brigade.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

This all makes Tony feel unsafe, you know.

And that is the important thing, making people like Tony [Karens, persons with gender dysphoria, tattlers, prog-tards, and those with "lived experiences"] feel "safe."

[Mother's Lament]

And JFree, don't forget his fascist little rants about forcing the jab and masking toddlers.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

"Both Left and Right Are Converging on Authoritarianism," by Stephanie Slade

Yes, one side wants to ban mask mandates, the other doesn't.

[JesseAz]

Pushing back on state mandates is authoritarian. Enshrined individual choice into law... you got it. Authoritarianism.

[Mother's Lament]

"Nothing more authoritarian than the first and second amendments." - t. Stephanie Slade

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

39:46: Weekly Listener Question

I listened to the listener question. These can't be real.

[JesseAz]

What retarded thing did Mike ask this time?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Something about which THREE articles or issues of Reason magazine would "the beloved editors" (in the actual question) choose to convince average people to subscribe.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Even Penthouse questions were more plausible.

[Mother's Lament]

"Dear Reason,
I never thought this would happen to me. I’ve always wondered about liberaltarianism, up until the day I ran into an old friend, Jared Polis...
...anyway, I never thought I would be into pain, but now whenever I smell leather I think of him."
- "Mike"

[JesseAz]

Did one of them suggest just skipping articles and reading the comments instead?

[Ersatz]

😉

[mad.casual]

It almost sounds like it came from a non-native English speaker locked in a Gulag or N. Korean prison or something.

[Dillinger]

fuck apologies just keep your Karenticles out of my life from now on.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

No apology needed. I'll settle for the imprisonment of Fauci, Wallensky, Collins, and anybody else involved with the vax mandates, mask mandates, economic shutdowns and coverups of the cronyvirus.

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

Not enough lamp posts.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

The major cities aren't using their prisons. There's lots of room.

[Bill Dalasio]

Except that doesn't really work, either. As long as you have the millions of sociopaths who happily went along with all of it, you'll always find a new Fauci, Wallensky, or Collins. They'll just assume they need to control harder. No, you need broad public shaming and humiliation for maybe 20-25% of the population. That's how you effect the culture. It's how you make being a COVID Karen low status. Without doing that, you'll find there's no shortage of would-be Cuomosexuals and psychotic martinets eager to satisfy them.

[Ajsloss]

The most depressing thing of this for me was finding out how many of my “friends” were 100% on board with this farce.

[plaidshirt]

^ This

[Commenter_XY]

^^^ YES!

The thing of it is, most of my acquaintances are white collar professionals. They understand stats and data. But then consciously ignored the data. Case in point: isolating the elderly early, based on what we directly observed months earlier in Italy and Spain (Sept-Nov), instead of shutting down society should have been apparent (and obvious). Nope.

The bright line for me was telling people they were non-essential. That is degrading. Sorry, your job is non-essential so sit home? What do you tell you hungry kid...sorry Junior, Daddy is non-essential and so are you?

I have very little use for Branch Covidians.

[Nardz]

Not enough.
Clumps of cancer like the staff of this publication need to be put down too.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Lots of libertarians calling for mass murder today...

[Nardz]

I don't call myself libertarian, and just retribution and/or self defense isn't murder.

[JesseAz]

I just want Mike, jfree, sarc, brandy, and all the other state loving "true" libertarians to admit they were wrong and accept the mockery.

[Dillinger]

>>brandy

text-screamed at me in March 2020 because knew someone who had covid.

[DesigNate]

That’s about as likely as shrike posting a link that DOESN’T refute his point.

[MWAocdoc]

It's premature to ask anyone for an apology. The Governor of Washington state is STILL requiring us to wear masks at work!

[Idaho Bob]

I work near Spokane. No mask mandates over here.

[perlmonger]

Wherever you *usually* go to masturbate, since the response to asking for an apology over this bullshit is going to be a hearty "Go fuck yourself".

[A Cynical Asshole]

You don't really expect any of these shitstains to actually apologize, do you?

[CE]

Maybe Ron Bailey?

[JesseAz]

By the way, why does Reason include themselves as "we" in deserving an apology. They were tepid and late to any masking pushback.

[Mother's Lament]

Bravely noting and condemning authoritarian overreach that actually ruined lives years later than everyone else... but say, did you hear that Hawley was thinking about maybe thinking about a bill forbidding gender affirming surgery on toddlers? What a Nazi.

[plaidshirt]

All of that water Reason carried for the corporate press looked pretty heavy, so I guess it doesn’t surprise me that they would want an apology.

[Jerry B.]

But the Cochrane Library must be a right-wing front, since they don't agree with the (liberal) science.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Apology? For defeating the Orange Terror? We should be apologizing to the CDC for ever doubting their motives.

[I, Woodchipper]

You will never get an apology.

These fuckers will never go to jail and in fact they will oppress and destroy on the next round.

[b0f33bc]

The listener question was about what issue or article would make someone a Reason subscriber. Robby Soave's article about the Covington kids introduced me to Reason, and I am not a subscriber, listener and donor.

[Bill Falcon]

no apologies..deportation of the entire gang in govt, media, and public health, and education. Ukraine needs folks right now and since many of them have ukranian flags and Zelinsky is their leader...

[jack murphy]

AN APOLOGY ADMITS LIABILITY. let's all seek to end sovereign immunity so we can hold the dimwits liable for their overwhelming and intentional ignorance that levels damages to all of us. you want to drive around alone in a car with a useless mask you go ahead. you want to shut down schools? shut down your home school. you want to close restaurants? close yours. anyone with two braincells figured this bullshit out on day three. family businesses were ruined, kids got their social development stymied (possibly permanently), military were cut loose, families were tortured as their loved ones died in isolation behind glass. the ripples of this hustle will hit distant shores for years to come.

[krugger20]

Stay away from them for your own good. They do not pay. I deposited a whole lot of figures with them and when it was time to withdraw profits I could not. After a week I could no longer login. They shut me out and were not available to help me. I was not ready to let go of that account because I had over $200,000 in there and there is no way I was letting it go. I got help finally from cp-investigation(.) com after filing a complaint. I finally got back my funds with and profit due my account too. I thank my stars I filed that complaint.