Biden's Disturbing Speech Outside Independence Hall

Plus: The editors answer a question from a U.S. House candidate.

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Biden's Disturbing Speech Outside Independence Hall

In this week's The Reason Roundtable, editors Katherine Mangu-Ward, Matt Welch, Peter Suderman, and Nick Gillespie discuss President Joe Biden's speech last week in front of Independence Hall in Philadelphia as well as energy policy in California.

1:47: Biden's speech in Philadelphia

25:42: Energy policy in California

33:18: Weekly Listener Question:

Whenever I am having a conversation with a die-hard Trump cultist for long enough, I ask the question "Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you? He didn't follow through on any campaign promises. He went the opposite direction on several." If I'm speaking with someone who has a more nuanced response than "He talks shit to the people I don't like," it's something like, "He did a lot of deregulation," but they can never name anything specific that was deregulated.

I know Trump did lead some deregulation, but I'm not sure how much made a big difference. I started thinking about the deregulation under Jimmy Carter that I do know about. Everything from airlines to beer brewing. So now, my question is: "Is it possible that Jimmy Carter did more and better deregulation than Donald Trump, and how could we measure this?"

44:47: This week's cultural recommendations.

Mentioned in this podcast:

"In Philadelphia, Joe Biden Peddled a Competing Brand of Authoritarianism," by J.D. Tuccille

"Biden's Presidential Address Was Actually a Campaign Speech," by Elizabeth Nolan Brown

"Trump Disregards Democracy, While Biden Ignores Its Dangers," by Jacob Sullum

"California Legislators Vote To Keep Diablo Canyon Nuclear Plant Running," by Ronald Bailey

"In a Belated Outburst of Rationality, Germany Decides To Keep Three Nuclear Plants Open," by Ronald Bailey

"Debts Forgiven and Debts Forgotten," by Nick Gillespie

President Biden's job approval, according to RealClear Politics.

"What Capitalism Gets Right – and Governments Get Wrong," a TED Talk by Katherine Mangu-Ward

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsors:

• Looking for your next podcast? Check out The Political Orphanage. Host Andrew Heaton is one of the funny guys in Reason TV videos—you may have seen him in "Libertarian PBS," "Game of Thrones: Libertarian Edition," or "Desperate Mayors Compete for Amazon HQ2." The Political Orphanage is designed for people who don't feel at home in the Republican or Democratic Parties. Rather than explaining issues as a slap fight between Red Team and Blue Team, Heaton looks for the underlying problems to big issues and cracks jokes along the way. This month, Heaton flew to Berlin to interview a historian about Nazi economics and whether Hitler was a socialist or a capitalist. Over the next two weeks, he's going to talk to comedians about if social justice is a religion. And later this month, he's doing a special on what might happen in the event of nuclear war. The Political Orphanage looks for the basic concepts affecting politics and explains them, so you can make your own mind up instead of just choosing a team to hate. It's a funny, wonky, nonpartisan show with cool guests, and we think you'll enjoy it. So check out The Political Orphanage.
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Audio production by Ian Keyser

Assistant production by Hunt Beaty

Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve

What are we consuming this week?

Peter Suderman

• Three Thousand Years of Longing

Nick Gillespie

• Wild In The Streets

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Why It’s Ok To Want To Be Rich by Jason Brennan

Matt Welch

• Atlantis: The Lost Empire

---

Comments

[Dillinger]

just once try T through an anti-establishment lens.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

So reason is writing the weekly "listener" questions

[R Mac]

It’s Mike Liarson.

[SQRLSY One]

Say WHAT?!??!

"Biden's Disturbing Speech Outside Independence Hall"

Hey all of ye Reasonoid readers! Do NOT bother to read this article about Joe Biden (or his policies)! Do NOT bother to read (or read about) ANY links, facts, or logic contained in this article and-or video! Do NOT bother to trouble your pretty little heads about silly factual details gathered by useless Reason-writer eggheads!

Because I, the SMARTEST ONE, can “summarize” it ALL for you! Here it is, above article summarized: “Senile Mackerel Snapper Bad”!

(/Sarc, revenge for moronic “summaries” about “Orange Man Bad”)

[Mother's Lament]

Orangemanbad, Shillsy.

[rbike]

I like Trump because who is currently better? The man has a lot of flaws. But he stood up to all the crap flung at him and bounced back. And some of what he did was good. Not all or even most. Now compare Brandon.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

He also negotiated multiple peace treaties that would have gotten any other president the Nobel Prize, and would have been talked about on CNN for a month. And negotiated a withdrawal from Afghanistan which Brandon threw away and fucked up.

[rbike]

Absolutely. I went from ha ha this loser beat Hilary to geez he did several things to be really proud of. Real, substantial things.

[SRG]

Cool story, bto

[SRG]

bro. rassnfrassn lack of edit function

[Unicorn Abattoir]

You ain't seen nothin yet.

[Union of Concerned Socks]

ICWYDT

[Unicorn Abattoir]

I'm just takin care of business, dude. You know, looking out for number 1.

[rbike]

Thank you. I do not expect anything like this from Biden. Everything he does seems to hurt the average working man. But that is what the Democrat party stands for.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Same here.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Those achievements are historical.

Yet. Crickets.

Those same crickets they want you to eat.

[J. K. Taylor]

Well said. Demented Joe cannot even do fake anger, which came off in Philly, as self righteous posturing (..or as Sen. Kennedy, La. called it..”Star-Spangled Stupidity”). Biden does have the phony desperation antics down though, that might embarrass, even his fellow political hacks.

[Tony]

Brandon is infinitely better. He didn't steal nuclear secrets, to name just the latest Trump crime. You'd know that if you weren't propaganda-addled and content with having absolutely no thoughts of substance.

You said absolutely nothing and decided that was an argument.

[RENATA the rational]

Biden is better because he is not worse. Take a Logic course.

[voluntaryist]

Two statists, you get to pick one, nothing else! And you buy it? You let them confine your "choice" as if one contrasted with the other? No! They compare, they don't contrast, except on minor details.
I like "none of the above" as in leave the office open until a real choice is offered. Or, abolish the laws protecting the fake two party system.
Wait! The people don't elect the POTUS anyway, the Electoral College does. Never mind. Go back to sleep, sheep.

[Cyto]

Oh, now his speech is "disturbing".

It was a bog standard campaign speech the day after. Didn't even warrant a mention live

What happened? Did you guys have to wait for permission to criticize Biden?

[JesseAz]

The tweets are fine though. Not mean at all.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

What happened? The reality distortion field collapsed under the pressure.

[NOYB2]

Standard propaganda: initially, deny everything. Later, when it doesn't matter anymore, weakly admit the truth.

[JesseAz]

Whenever I am having a conversation with a die-hard Trump cultist for long enough, I ask the question "Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you? He didn't follow through on any campaign promises. He went the opposite direction on several." If I'm speaking with someone who has a more nuanced response than "He talks shit to the people I don't like," it's something like, "He did a lot of deregulation," but they can never name anything specific that was deregulated.

Shit White Mike makes up in his head as he has everyone on mute.

[JesseAz]

I know Trump did lead some deregulation, but I'm not sure how much made a big difference. I started thinking about the deregulation under Jimmy Carter that I do know about. Everything from airlines to beer brewing. So now, my question is: "Is it possible that Jimmy Carter did more and better deregulation than Donald Trump, and how could we measure this?"

Just ignore the two departments he expanded. We have to make carter redeemable. More shit sarc, brandy, jeff, and Mike push.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

He didn't follow through on any campaign promises.

No shit, he's a politician and not a dictator. There's still Congress, a Supreme Court, and the Deep State aka FBI/CIA.

Let's compare one instance.

Candidate Obama promised many times to shut down Gitmo. President Obama tried once, timidly, got rebuked by Congress, never tried again.

Candidate Trump promised many times to make Mexico pay for a huuuuge border wall.
President Trump kept trying over and over again to divert funds to it, never tried that I know of to get Mexico to pay for it, but did keep trying over and over to build it, did get several sections built.

Which one came closer to following through on his campaign promises?

I despise a whole lot of things about Trump, his economic illiteracy, his xenophobia, he's a jackass I'd never want to meet in person. But you know exactly what he wants, and you know he will try to get what he wants. Other things you know he doesn't give a shit about -- like letting Fauci and Brix run rampant with just run of the mill off-hand objections.

Bush? Obama? Biden? The only thing you know about any of them is that they are politicians who change their minds on the slightest whim.

Fuck 'em all. Fuck Trump too, but not as hard, and all of them with somebody else's dick.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Candidate Trump promised many times to make Mexico pay for a huuuuge border wall.
President Trump kept trying over and over again to divert funds to it, never tried that I know of to get Mexico to pay for it, but did keep trying over and over to build it, did get several sections built.

He still failed. It took Biden to do real work to complete it.

#BidenForBorderWalls

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

On a more serious note, Trump was largely a cultural pick by the working class as a rebellion against a culture war that's been waged against them with increasing vitriol and venom by the left.

On a policy by policy basis, Trump was, in many ways somewhat doctrinaire as a president. And despite the establishment media barking continuously that this or that policy was UNPRECEDENTED... upon close inspection, almost none of what Trump did was particularly unprecedented. This is what caused some center left journalists to walk away from Journalism. They could smell something off in the coverage coming from the institutions some of them had given 15, 20, 25 years to.

I remember a forensic examination one former journalist gave in a talk where she went point-by-point, with receipts showing how unhinged the coverage became under Trump, and then gave exacting examples of how previous presidents had done the same thing. And by "the same thing" we're not talking about Trump doing something "bad" that other presidents did that was "bad" (so therefore the 'thing' is to be forgive), we're talking about Trump doing "something normal" and then having the establishment media describe that "something normal" as both unprecedented and "bad".

After four years of a president that on the policy side of the equation turned out to be fairly run-of-the-mill, then you had people like me who didn't vote for Trump in 2016 to vote for him in 2020 as a rebuke to the establishment powers and the deep state.

My own bluer-than-blue-found-in-nature blue newspaper noted that more people in this bluer-than-blue-found-in-nature blue county voted for Trump in 2020 than did in 2016, meaning that Trump was able to increase his vote totals who among people who were nominally predisposed to NOT vote for him, essentially "flipping" and voting for him during the second go-round.

[Overt]

It would be interesting to see the point by point piece if you can ever find it again.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Let me see what I can do... it was a youtube video of a talk.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I'm digging now, and whoa is it tough to find anything on google with limited search terms.

She gave a talk and in particular, zeroed in on the 'trump visiting troops at Christmastime' controversy.

She was an old school journalist, someone who worked for the straight news, like CBS, NBC, ABC, something like that for many many years.

She also discussed the ethics of journalism as well, including use of the term 'lied' and why journalists (of old) are reluctant to use the term "lie". She described a kind of journalism that she was trained in that was almost scientific in its approach to using terminology like "lie". Ie, if you didn't have clear evidence that the person in question knew the truth and deliberately obscured it, then using "lie" was something that journalists would avoid.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Well shit, I found it. Deep... DEEP inside my Youtube history.

Slanted Journalism and the 2020 Election | Sharyl Attkisson

Sharyl Attkisson
Author, Slanted: How the News Media Taught Us to Love Censorship and Hate Journalism

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

56 minute podium talk.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Thank you for this. I'm am forwarding to as many people as I think will watch it.

[SRG]

The issue is not whether the presidents lived up to their campaign promises. We know they don't. It is that Trump supporters, in the face of the evidence, will say that he did, and then when challenged, will concede that, ok, he may not have done, but that was because of the Democrats, McConnell, antifa, BLM, etc. So then, why do they make the claim in the first place? Is Trump some personalisation of the city of Qarth?

[Overt]

So Trump did not negotiate several peace treaties and the withdrawal from Afghanistan?

[JesseAz]

Cite? You've said many here are trump cultists. Finding an example should be easy for you shrike. Problem is most here talked about the bad he did but can also be rational enough to see when be did well.

[Liberty Lover]

This is a list of U.S. states and federal district by the number of billionaires as of 15 Sep 2020; the total of 642 billionaires

87,000 new IRS armed agents, that is 135.5 agents per billionaire. I think they will be looking at other than billionaires.
Tyranny knows no bounds.

[R Mac]

County commissioner convicted of trespassing. Judge removes him from elected office for insurrection. The United States in 2022.

https://news.yahoo.com/judge-removed-cowboys-trump-founder-172121330.html

[R Mac]

Not meant as a reply.

[JesseAz]

That judge needs to be disbarred.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Did you read the judge's opinion?

I mean, you are so committed to honesty, right? So surely you would have read the judge's opinion to try to better understand why she would take the extraordinary step of invoking the Disqualification Clause against this person, right? That she might have had *some* rational basis?

You wouldn't want to dishonestly imply that this judge thinks "trespassing" is a crime tantamount to insurrection, right?

[Don't look at me!]

If trespassing on public property was the crime, he should have been shot, amirite?

[R Mac]

This trial wasn’t even his criminal case. His crime was committed in DC, where he was found guilty of misdemeanor trespassing and sentenced.

This was a local judge where he’s an elected commissioner that decided he’s an insurrectionist and removed him from office.

[R Mac]

No I didn’t read the whole thing. Did you?Because that wasn’t the judge that oversaw his trial. It was a civil suit that claimed he was an insurrectionist under the 14th amendment.

Do you think it’s appropriate for political rivals to bring civil suits that someone is an insurrectionist under the 14th Amendment to have them removed from local office?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Well, you get a little bit of credit for being honest enough to admit you didn't read the judge's opinion. If you had, you would have realized that there was some rational basis for his decision that wasn't just some wild-eyed partisanship hating Republicans or treating trespassing as tantamount to insurrection.

The guy who was removed from the ballot was not just some ordinary guy swept up in the moment of Jan. 6 and made a mistake. He was a guy who organized a series of rallies before Jan. 6 not just encouraging people to attend the protest in DC on that day, but to come expecting war and violence. And his words at his rallies were quite a bit darker than simply "stop the steal".

Here is but two examples of what he said at his rallies:

In a January 4 video recorded in Atlanta, Georgia, Mr. Griffin stated, "We want to win it through our democratic process, but losing is not an option. We'll win it ... in the ballot box or we'll win it in the street. That's where I stand." PX 67. In those remarks, Mr. Griffin also directed a warning to the "sellouts," the "RINOs," and the "turncoats," stating that "[t]hey're the first one that we're going to hunt down." Id.

And:

In a January 5 video recorded with a group of Trump supporters on his way to Washington, D.C., Mr. Griffin again called upon Vice President Pence "to do the right thing and call this election the fraud that it is, because we won't take anything less." PX 173. He added, "Losing is not an option. ... Every card is on the table. Every option is available. And we feel that we are a nation at war right now and we are men that are answering the call." Id.

Those quote are both from the opinion. You would know these things if you had read the opinion. But you didn't.

And then, at the Jan. 6 riot, he wasn't just a guy who just wandered into the Capitol taking selfies. He egged the crowd on. He got on a bullhorn and encouraged people to go in. He was asking other rioters entering the Capitol if they were armed or not. (Huh, why would he do that?) He was a direct participant of a mob of people who crushed a Capitol Police officer in a doorway. He did WAY MORE than Ray Epps ever did to encourage the violence that day.

Then, the day AFTER, he recorded himself saying that he wanted to do ANOTHER riot, this time a "Second Amendment Rally", to prevent Biden from being inaugurated, and that there would be "blood running out of that building". Huh.

In addition let's not forget that this guy is currently a county commissioner, so a person who holds a position of authority and power right now. As a part of his position he swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. So he has a duty to act in a manner consistent with that oath, unlike most other people attending the rally/riot.

Now I wouldn't have expected any of this to have changed your mind or think that this guy is really an insurrectionist. I fully expect you would have still objected and think it was a great travesty. Fine. But at least you would have been more informed to realize that he was treated this way not because he was a mere trespasser. You probably still would have been dishonest in how you framed this story, but you would have been knowingly dishonest.

Once again, last weekend, you wrote:

Personally, my driving factors are the NAP, and being honest (why I’m so vociferous in my criticism of dishonest and disingenuous people here).

https://reason.com/2022/09/03/food-trucks-from-colorado-to-alabama-are-still-struggling-with-red-tape-and-protectionism/?comments=true#comment-9684907

That is why I am picking on you. Because you were completely dishonest in your presentation of this story. You lied by omission by not including key details, and you disingenuously implied that Griffin was kicked off the ballot because some judge treated trespassing as tantamount to insurrection. That was your dishonesty.

By your actions, I conclude that "being honest" is not truly one of your driving factors. Instead, your driving factor in this case appears to be "holding the people I hate to a standard of honesty that I do not feel obliged to meet myself". You don't want to be honest. You want THEM to be honest while you feel entitled to be as dishonest as you like. This is no different from when people like Jesse would criticize me for linking to a story from The Daily Beast as being untrustworthy based on the source, while being entirely free to link to stories from right-wing sources that have an even worse reputation. He doesn't care about reputational honesty as an objective principle, he just wants to get a dig at the people he hates. It is the same with you.

[R Mac]

“You lied by omission by not including key details, and you disingenuously implied that Griffin was kicked off the ballot because some judge treated trespassing as tantamount to insurrection. That was your dishonesty.”

I linked to the story and made a comment. Here’s you lying about him being kicked off the ballot though. He’d already been elected. The judge removed him from office for insurrection despite him never being charged and found guilty of insurrection.

Instead of answering my simple question you lied some more, Lying Jeffy.

[R Mac]

R Mac
September.6.2022 at 5:50 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
County commissioner convicted of trespassing. Judge removes him from elected office for insurrection. The United States in 2022.

Here’s my comment. Was he not convicted of trespassing? (He was convicted of trespassing). Did a judge remove him from office for insurrection? (Yes, a judge removed him from office for insurrection, which he was never charged and found guilty of).

I think I just figured out why you lie so much. You don’t even know what a lie is.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You evidently think a "commitment to honesty" means "stringing together factual statements in a disingenuous way to create a misleading impression in order to push a tribal narrative".

[Commenter_XY]

The only problem is that the text of the law specifically cites state legislators or judicial officers. Going by the text, this guy is a county commissioner, so the judge can't remove him using that law. I see a bench-slapping coming to an appellate court near NM.

I guess the other problem. Don't you need a conviction for insurrection? This guy was not tried for insurrection or sedition.

[R Mac]

“I guess the other problem. Don't you need a conviction for insurrection? This guy was not tried for insurrection or sedition.”

That was my entire point.

[R Mac]

No response, huh. Kinda like how you didn’t respond when I asked you why you lie about Joe Rogan so much, Lying Jeffy.

Poor Lying Jeffy. He got his feelings hurt because I said I value honesty, now he’s gonna troll me at every turn to try to pull a gotcha about my own honesty. But this was an odd attempt at a gotcha.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

See above, asshole.

Now I realize it was a mistake to put you on mute for so long. Because it just enabled you to keep repeating "Lying Jeffy" over and over again without challenge from me. It permitted the meme to become "truth" out of sheer repetition. And it denied me the opportunity to expose you as the fraud that you are until now.

The guy who explicitly says "I value honesty" and then not two days later posts the dishonest garbage above has no business calling anyone else a liar.

[R Mac]

You lefties are fucking schizo with the mute button.

[Mike Laursen]

All 87,000 “armed”? What’s your source of that info?

[JesseAz]

Why is even 1 armed?

[Unicorn Abattoir]

You could have found it in the job announcement before it was scrubbed.

[Mike Laursen]

I wonder if the IRS is really going to be able to hire 87,000 people in the current hiring environment.

[JesseAz]

Always the benefit of the doubt for your democrat heroes.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

They’ll always be able to hire violent retards like you, mike.

[Don't look at me!]

That’s not the problem.

[mad.casual]

"Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you? He didn't follow through on any campaign promises. He went the opposite direction on several."

“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” - George Orwell

How many federal agencies did Jesus, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, Fredrick Douglass, or Bradley Manning deregulate? I would ask "How fucked up is your worldview that that's your metric of a man or a candidate's worth?" but that's not an accurate depiction of how abjectly fucked up that worldview is. The more accurate question would be "You already consider Ketanji Brown Jackson to be a greater humanitarian than Fredrick Douglass because Douglass was too much a white politician and didn't carry through on enough promises don't you?"

[Bill Godshall]

Biden's angry unpresidential speech (and its blood red backdrop with marines) criticizing and demonizing his domestic political enemies (i.e. Trump and MAGA Republicans) was eerily similar to Hitler's speeches in 1939.

[JasonAZ]

"Whenever I am having a conversation with a die-hard Trump cultist for long enough, I ask the question "Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you? He didn't follow through on any campaign promises. He went the opposite direction on several." If I'm speaking with someone who has a more nuanced response than "He talks shit to the people I don't like," it's something like, "He did a lot of deregulation," but they can never name anything specific that was deregulated."

Firstly, just because people think Trump is the less of 2 evils, twice, doesn't equate to love. But I appreciate this glimpse into your worldview Mike Liarsen. You assume other love their favored candidate because you love your team's candidates.

Secondly, this is easy: NO NEW WARS. You'd think a supposedly Libertarian magazine would praise this, but mean tweets and all.

Thirdly, the Trump Administration work in the middle east with promoting peace deals between Arab countries and Israel is praiseworthy. In a sane world, he would have won the Nobel Peace Prize.

[creech]

Thanks for those reminders, Jason. And I'm wondering why the Trump ads in 2020 campaign didn't relentlessly remind the voters about them? After all, Trump campaign failed as much as any
"GOP always manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" campaign led by RINOS and D.C. swamp creatures.

[JasonAZ]

"And I'm wondering why the Trump ads in 2020 campaign didn't relentlessly remind the voters about them?"

That's a great question. IDK. The fix was in, so not sure if it would have mattered or not.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

This guy gets it.

[Pear Satirical]

Don't forget The Right to Try and FIRST Step Acts and undoing the Dear Colleague letter.

[JasonAZ]

"Whenever I am having a conversation with a die-hard Obama cultist for long enough, I ask the question "Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you?"

Funny, this question has NEVER been asked by the progressive trolls or Reason Editors. Hmmm, I wonder why.

PS: It's because you are all clearly the Obama loving cultist.

[SRG]

Or perhaps genuine Obama cultists are few and far between, while Trump cultists, with their Maga hats and Humalog pens, can be found almost everywhere.

[NOYB2]

Or perhaps genuine Obama cultists are few and far between

If you still had anything good to say about Obama after his eight years in office, you are an Obama cultist.

while Trump cultists, with their Maga hats and Humalog pens, can be found almost everywhere

Those aren't "Trump cultists", they are simply people who despise the Democrats and progressives. If Trump got hit by a bus tomorrow, those people would still be wearing their Maga hats.

As for Humalog, diabetes is rampant in the minority communities that make up the core constituency of the Democrats, so think before you engage in such dumb stereotyping.

[Overt]

Right I never saw anybody with that stupid Hope poster on their walls at home or at their work cubical. No reporters talking about thrills going up their legs when Obama spoke. No creepy videos of childrens' choirs singing his name.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TW9b0xr06qA

[JasonAZ]

"Hope poster on their walls at home or at their work cubical."

Yeah, I saw a dude at work with an Obama calendar in his cube at work. Wow. Remember all those icky conservatives with W calendars? No, because it never happened. The cult of personality around Obama is epic and simply pales Trump love. Anybody claiming otherwise, like Shrike, is a complete fool.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

The election of Obama was the literal polar opposite of Trump. ODS was essentially the sycophantic outpouring of sugary support and loving platitudes that when viewed or re-viewed look creepy beyond words.

FFS the man won the Nobel Peace Prize for getting elected.

[Junkmailfolder]

You're joking. Some reporters get a tingle in their legs watching him speak.

[JesseAz]

Lol shrike. Now this is great parody.

[JesseAz]

I mean fuck. Obama just got a dozen glowing articles for winning an Emmy for video narration talking about him halfway to an EGOT.

You really are a dumb one shrike.

[John C. Randolph]

Hey, let's not overlook Obama's incredible achievement in winning a Nobel Peace Prize for absolutely fuck-all, just because the committee were falling all over themselves to kowtow to the worthless commie prick.

-jcr

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Few and far between.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Don't mock the President.

[John C. Randolph]

Obama cultists are few and far between,

Ever heard of this thing called "the mainstream media"? It's maggoty with Obama cultists.

-jcr

[NOYB2]

Whenever I am having a conversation with a die-hard Trump cultist

And by "die-hard Trump cultist", you mean normal people who don't partake in your severe case of TDS?

for long enough, I ask the question "Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you?

Well, let's see: my 401(k) appreciated, my home appreciated, my job seemed secure, inflation was low, he didn't start any new wars, he tried to protect the border, and he deregulated a lot of stuff.

There is also the stuff he didn't do: unlike Biden, Trump didn't raise taxes, didn't invite millions of illegal aliens into the country, didn't hand out trillions to billionaires and dictators, didn't pick his cabinet based on skin color, and didn't kowtow to the Europeans or Chinese.

I don't particularly love Trump, but I positively despise Biden. I have despised that vile, corrupt, incompetent, vain man since long before Trump even was a politician.

[Square = Circle]

I don't particularly love Trump, but I positively despise Biden. I have despised that vile, corrupt, incompetent, vain man since long before Trump even was a politician.

Ditto.

[JasonAZ]

Yeah, his behavior during the SCOTUS smear campaign against Justice Thomas was reprehensible.

[John C. Randolph]

He belongs behind bars for raping Tara Reade.

-jcr

[John C. Randolph]

I positively despise Biden.

Biden is a vegetable.

Sure, he was a scumbag all his life before the dementia set in, but the people to despise for the current economic debacles and power-grabs are the Obamunist scumbags with their hands up Biden's ass making his lips move.

-jcr

[Commenter_XY]

I don't particularly love Trump, but I positively despise Biden. I have despised that vile, corrupt, incompetent, vain man since long before Trump even was a politician.

This x1,000,000

[Gaear Grimsrud]

2nd.

[Barnstormer]

Some Trump accomplishments; by no means a complete list:

* Rattled the NATO cage. Largely without result, but who was the last guy to even try?
* Got quite a bit of border wall constructed, despite the opposition.
* Took numerous steps to stem the illegal immigrant flow across the southern border, again despite the opposition.
* Proposed and enacted a genuine middle-class tax cut.
* Talked tough with China and Russia. Compare their behavior now to their behavior then.
* Though all of them--except maybe Gorsuch--didn't quite hit the bullseye, his SCOTUS picks were good.
* Recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel.
* Made the US a net exporter of petroleum products.

[Barnstormer]

Oh, and the fact that he did all this whilst flipping a one-digit salute to the likes of George Will and Bill Kristol makes it even better.

[Mike Laursen]

Yeah, that malignant buffoon really gave it to George Will!

[JesseAz]

First step. Deregulation policies. Tried to cut funding but impoundment act stopped him. Exposed the ICE. Abraham accords.

But shrike (SRG) thinks you're a cultist.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Now we're a net importer of baby formula. Win win!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

* Rattled the NATO cage. Largely without result, but who was the last guy to even try?

Not a positive accomplishment, in my view.

* Got quite a bit of border wall constructed, despite the opposition.

Not a positive accomplishment, from a libertarian perspective anyway.

* Took numerous steps to stem the illegal immigrant flow across the southern border, again despite the opposition.

Not a positive accomplishment, from a libertarian perspective anyway.

* Proposed and enacted a genuine middle-class tax cut.

Sure, score one for Trump.

* Talked tough with China and Russia. Compare their behavior now to their behavior then.

But I thought we were talking about accomplishments, not just words. If you are going to bring in his words as something that ought to be used as an item in his favor, then might I point you to all of his mean tweets?

* Though all of them--except maybe Gorsuch--didn't quite hit the bullseye, his SCOTUS picks were good.

From a liberty perspective they are a mixed bag.

* Recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel.

Not sure why we should care.

* Made the US a net exporter of petroleum products.

Not sure why Trump should be given credit for this. He didn't run the petroleum companies, did he?

Your list of accomplishments seems rather weak, actually.

[damikesc]

"* Rattled the NATO cage. Largely without result, but who was the last guy to even try?

Not a positive accomplishment, in my view."

Yes, quite crass to expect countries to...uh...abide by their agreements. Also told them it was a very bad idea to keep going to Russia for all of their energy needs.

"* Got quite a bit of border wall constructed, despite the opposition.

Not a positive accomplishment, from a libertarian perspective anyway."

With no borders, there is no country.

"* Talked tough with China and Russia. Compare their behavior now to their behavior then.

But I thought we were talking about accomplishments, not just words. If you are going to bring in his words as something that ought to be used as an item in his favor, then might I point you to all of his mean tweets?"

Russia did not invade Ukraine under Trump. China made no noise towards Taiwan under Trump.

Both have changed with "the adults back in charge"

"* Recognized Jerusalem as capital of Israel.

Not sure why we should care."

Because it IS the capital and refusing to call it such due to "Palestinians" (in reality, Syrians) bitching about it is idiotic.

"* Made the US a net exporter of petroleum products.

Not sure why Trump should be given credit for this. He didn't run the petroleum companies, did he?"

Weird that it stopped shortly after he left, ain't it?

[RENATA the rational]

aren't you embarrassed to say "not from a Libertarian perspective" ?? The Pew Research Center found that 11% of Americans agree that the word “libertarian describes me well”

So, the other 89% just what like you know they don't like matter.

[Mike Laursen]

That’s an awful lot of partial credit being handed out as “achievement”.

[Mike Laursen]

“Talked tough with China and Russia. Compare their behavior now to their behavior then.“

Him and Pelosi, talkin’ tough to China!

[Knutsack]

Gillespie's Arby's comment:

Could he be any more of a dick? It's like all those cocktail party comments here are spot-on.

What a great representative for libertarians. Jesus.

[MasterThief]

I know he tweeted out his accomplishments plenty of times. That said, I don't remember seeing any Trump ads. It's hard to make a positive case when the entire media is campaigning against you with lies. Maybe ignoring all that and making a positive case could work, but

[Mike Laursen]

Sounds like Nick has spent some time hanging out in the commentariat.

[aarinsanity]

Biden just seems way less threatening to democracy than Trump. I would have been interested in the Roundtable comparing Biden’s speech with Trump’s speech from over the weekend too. Two different visions for a America, both I think are awful, Biden’s is slightly less awful! Saddened to see the direction of LP too, I’ll be voting blue for the next several cycles.

[Union of Concerned Socks]

Out of curiosity, are you Russia-funded, or China-funded?

[Social Justice is neither]

Which branch of antifa are you writing for?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So what *specifically* did Trump deregulate? Yes yes we all know he signed that one executive order. So what tangible, objective deregulatory result did it produce?

Jimmy Carter was no libertarian, but it is nonetheless undeniably true that he championed, and started the process of, a lot of deregulatory activity, not just with airline deregulation and beer brewing deregulation. And it had tangible results when we all could see airlines fly different routes and we could have the opportunity to buy microbrews at the grocery store.

So, whatever deregulatory things that Trump did, and I don't doubt that there were at least a few (even though it's probably far less than the Trump cultists would claim), what are they? What are the tangible objective results from that?

[Don't look at me!]

Too lazy to look it up for yourself?

[Tony]

It would have to be quite a distinction to justify the cultish devotion to him despite his many incredibly major moral deficiencies, failures, and crimes.

[John C. Randolph]

You'd still break out the kneepads for Obama in a nanosecond, despite his decision to murder American citizens without so much as indictment, let alone a conviction of a capital crime, wouldn't you?

Something something glass houses.

-jcr

[Tony]

Trump is continuing to attempt to overturn the last election and stole top secret nuclear materials. Almost his entire administration was indicted for crimes.

Obama didn't have so much as a single indictment in his administration.

[Roberta]

Most of the accomplishments of Trump's cabinet were in stopping new regulations that would've come into effect.

The major lasting accomplishments will be by his court appointees striking down regulations for years to come.

One of the great deregulations of the Carter years was in telephonics, and that was done mostly indirectly by antitrust activity against AT&T and the Carterfone (a brand name, nothing to do with Jimmy) court decision that allowed customers to hook up non-Western Electric equipment that they owned to their phone lines. There's no great monopoly like that out there now to be broken up.

[John C. Randolph]

Carter restarted draft registration. The people are not the property of the state. Fuck off, slaver.

-jcr

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Right, so no one can answer the question.

I did do a little bit of research about Trump's supposed deregulation accomplishments. From what I found, they are modest, and I am still not clear how any of them are directly impactful to the average person. As I said, with Carter, everyone could clearly see that the airlines were deregulated. Where is the analogy for Trump? What is the product or service that you can point to as empirical proof that "see, look, Trump deregulated that!" Hmm?

[Mike Laursen]

As they pointed out in the Roundtable, true deregulatory accomplishment would have required real leadership and effort, and coalition building from Trump. No way in hell he’d have the attention span or fortitude to do that.

[Roberta]

Carter wasn't the one who started the process of a lot of deregulatory activity, it just came to fruition on his watch and he signed the legislation. As anti-Nixon as I was, I found out years later that Nixon had quietly inaugurated a bunch of commissions, most of which didn't give their final reports to Congress until well after he'd left office. One that reported "too early" unfortunately was the one that recommended cannabis deregulation, and that's the one people most remember; since Nixon was still in office when they reported, that wasn't going to fly. But another one that reported early led to the all-volunteer armed forces. Most of them reported while Ford or Carter was president, and got bipartisan support and legislation that was very deregulatory, including the abolition of entire regimes like that of the ICC devoted to cartelizing business.

Trump's deregulation was by administrative action and therefore could not accomplish the sort of great swathes of abolition that would require Congressional action. If Trump had Congress on his side there'd've been a chance, although even then the low-hanging fruit of 40 years earlier was gone.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

The end of the draft was a pivotal event for me. The reason I never moved to the great frozen north. Zoolander's adoptive father was PM back then if memory serves.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Still better than Trump, amirite?

[DesigNate]

No mean tweets and the adults are back in charge.

[Tony]

What's so terrible about the world right now that was so great under Trump?

[NOYB2]

The fact that you don't know tells us volumes about what kind of pathetic life you lead.

[damikesc]

Outside of the Ukraine v Russia war leading to food shortages and energy shortages?

[RENATA the rational]

So you don't know 'terrible' on its own???? Yeah, not surprised.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Yes.

[John C. Randolph]

Trump cultist

As soon as I hear that phrase, I know that the question is not asked in good faith.

The lefturds spent the eight years before 2020 felching an incompetent red-diaper baby who couldn't even come through on marijuana reform, and they call Trumps supporters a "cult"?

Fuck off, slavers.

-jcr

[chemjeff radical individualist]

"Trump cultists" are a real thing. The term does not refer to every single Trump voter. It refers to people who are weirdly and obsessively devoted to him. You know, the QAnon crowd, the people who treat his rallies like they are the Grateful Dead on tour, the people who spend their lives on social media repeating and amplifying every single pro-Trump comment they can find, things like that. Think right-wing versions of "Bernie Bros".

These are Trump cultists:

https://archive.ph/jc8Ks

Libby DePiero once drove her Ford Focus so far to attend a Trump campaign rally—about 1,000 miles from her home in Connecticut to Indiana—that when she lay in bed that night she thought the twitching in her driving leg was coming from an animal under the mattress.
The 64-year-old retiree, who prefers sparkly nail polish, leopard prints and selfies with Trump campaign officials, is almost always one of the first few people in line at the president’s campaign events, part of the self-described group of “Front Row Joes” who routinely travel to see the president perform. Several, like Ms. DePiero, have attended more than 50 Trump rallies.
She keeps going because she trusts only the president to deliver her the news. “How else would I know what’s going on?” she said.

She trusts only Trump to deliver her the news. Nope, not a cultist.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

“Once you start going, it’s kind of like an addiction, honestly,” said April Owens, a 49-year-old financial manager in Kingsport, Tenn., who has been to 11 rallies. “I love the energy. I wouldn’t stand in line for 26 hours to see any rock band. He’s the only person I would do this for, and I’ll be here as many times as I can.”

Not a cult.

[RENATA the rational]

So the less enthusiasm one has the more likely we should be enthusiastic? Yeah, my dog is scratching his head

[Roberta]

But that's just it: His ability to rally support is Trump's biggest asset. Most of us just pragmatically go along with it, knowing that not just any Republican nominee could've beaten Clinton. So when we're pro-Trump, we're not just acolytes of him, we're respecting his devoted army of support who, fortunately, are on our side on more issues than not. And by winning in 2016, he showed that the Establishment was not permanently ensconced. I always saw Trump as the beginning of a movement, not the be-all and end-all of one. Yay, Trump!

[Mike Laursen]

Many Republicans could have beaten Clinton. She was an unappealing candidate.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“Many republicans…..”

Well, not without all that help from Russia, of course.

[RENATA the rational]

I am so sorry I lost the chart but it showed on one chart that the more people got to know Hillary the less she was liked, and the more they got to know Trump the more he was liked.

[DesigNate]

You guys (sarc, Tony, shrike, Mikey, etc.) use it all the time when you complain about any of the regulars here who dare to ever say anything positive about him.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“Several, like Ms…..”

OMG Jeff! There are “several”!!!!! OH NOES!!!!

Haha.

[Roberta]

Yes, Carter did more and better deregulation, but that was with legislation and much of it following the reports of commissions that'd been inaugurated by Nixon and took years to report. Trump did it in a much less cooperative, even hostile, environment by executive order.

Not only that, but the deregulation of the 1970s (that actually started under Ford and was eventually completed under Reagan) had already picked the low-hanging fruit: that of such agencies as the ICC, which were devoted to cartelizing business sectors. Now regulations are much more diffuse — smaller targets that are hard to pick out individually — and integrated into the functions of agencies. Nobody's going to abolish the FDA, for instance — if they did, then the state pharmacy boards would pick up the slack, because nobody's going to just allow the introduction of drugs and medical devices without government permission — so it's not a matter of abolishing license requirements but of various niggling requirements for licensure.

[Mike Laursen]

Yes, Carter did more and better deregulation, but … as discussed in the Roundtable, that would take real effort. It would take leadership and coalition building.

[RalphDaveWestfall]

This article's author said, "Whenever I am having a conversation with a die-hard Trump cultist for long enough, I ask the question 'Why? Why do you love him so much? What did he actually do for you?'"

If Matt Welch wants to know what Trump actually did for his followers, just look at all of his executive orders that Biden reversed as quickly as he could. https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-pulls-65-pending-trump-executive-orders/

If you want another list, here's mine:
*trying to ban immigration from terrorism-infested countries
*working to close the borders to illegal immigration, including the "wait in Mexico" policy that Biden dumped
*calling out the incredibly biased news media
*appointing judges who interpret the law rather than "legislating from the bench"
*being the first ever sitting US president to attend the annual Washington DC March for Life rally
*cutting unnecessary and burdensome regulations on businesses, including the oil industry
*pulling US policy away from the fraudulent catastrophic global warming narrative
*supporting Israel, including moving the US embassy to Jerusalem
*getting a historic peace agreement between Israel and the United Arab Emirates
*winding down military involvement in the Middle East
*ending the meaningless and dangerous Iran nuclear agreement
*promoting religious liberty domestically and abroad more than any previous president
*fighting back powerfully against attempts to overturn the 2016 election
*getting rid of educational policies that deny due process to people accused of sexual offenses
*condemning socialism
*working against China's economic policies that enable them to compete unfairly against US businesses
*banning flights from China at the start of the COVID pandemic
*supporting and encouraging manufacturing, especially critical supplies, in the US rather than foreign countries
*pushing to reopen schools because of the low infection rate and extremely low mortality among school-age children
*facilitating the best US economy ever for minorities before the COVID-19 invasion
*increased funding for faith-based HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities) and seminaries

Trump really did do a lot of what his supporters wanted, contrary to Matt Welch's claims to the contrary.

[Mike Laursen]

*increased funding for faith-based HBCUs (historically black colleges and universities) and seminaries

Isn’t that in the same vein as Biden’s student loan debt cancelation?

[RENATA the rational]

No, because as Clarence Thomas says
Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas defended all-black schools saying one cannot assume something is “inferior” because it is “predominantly one group or another.”

“My high school was not inferior. My neighborhood was not inferior. My church was not inferior. My family was not inferior. I have never believed it, and I never will,”
=====
It is your bigotry that makes faith or race a qualifier for a school.
They need more funds and often because people like you say "wait, they are believers, they are black, we can't have that"

[RENATA the rational]

People who have followed Biden for decades consistently describe him as stupid and lazy. He was bottom 10 of his law class, at Syracuse.

[Childhood reader of SCOTUS opinions, really]

Has there ever been a stupider or lazier man in high office? Great Plagiarizer, bottom 10 of law class, known for his filthy mouth. Classlees, utterly classless.
1: “Take-home pay has gone up.”
2. “We have created a record 12 million new jobs.”
3: “[I have presided over] the largest deficit reduction in American history.”
4: “Two years ago, our economy was reeling.”
5: Oil companies have “invested too little of th[eir] profit to increase domestic production and keep gas prices down.”
{ Wow, the Willow Creek thing makes your head hurt 🙂 What changed 🙂 ]
6: “Now, thanks to all we’ve done, we’re exporting American products.”