Michael Shellenberger: How Progressives Ruined American Cities
The San Fransicko author on fighting homelessness and mental illnesses without shredding civil liberties.

On December 17, 2021, San Francisco Mayor London Breed declared a state of emergency in the city's Tenderloin district, which will lead to an increased police presence in the epicenter of the city's growing homelessness and addiction crisis.
"It is time for the reign of criminals to end," she said in a press conference. "It comes to an end when we are more aggressive with law enforcement & less tolerant of all the BULLSHIT that has destroyed our city." It was a sharp turnaround for Breed, who after the murder of George Floyd in 2020 called for "ending the use of police in responding to non-criminal activity."
Breed was roundly criticized by progressive politicians and groups like the Coalition on Homelessness, who castigated the move as an "expansion of strategies that have been tried and failed" that would contribute to the "instability and poor public health outcomes" of people living on the streets.
Michael Shellenberger, the author of the controversial new book San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities, has called Mayor Breed's new "tough love" approach a "big step in the right direction." Better known as a pro-nuclear-power environmentalist, Shellenberger appeared on The Reason Interview in July 2020 to discuss his book Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All.
Today, Shellenberger talks with guest host Zach Weissmueller about the homelessness crisis in America's big cities, which the environmentalist says is actually an addiction-and-mental-health crisis enabled by progressive policies that permit open-air drug scenes on public property, prevent police from enforcing the law, and undermine the creation of a functional mental health system. Zach talks with Shellenberger about his foray into social policy, his critiques of both progressive and libertarian politics, and how he thinks America's big cities can clean up their streets without grossly violating civil liberties.
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OK!!!
We finally got the environmentalists fighting the progressives!
I took a picture of a sign through a green space in a park behind my house, along an urban creek and sent it to my friends.
The sign essentially implored people walking along the trail to make sure their dogs and 4 legged charges didn't wander off the trail because even the small paws of a household pet could wreck the fragile ecosystem that our stalwart volunteers worked so hard to build and maintain. Then I looked over my shoulder and 30 yards away is a homeless encampment with half a dozen RVs with human waste and garbage... LITERALLY spilling down the roadside into the creek.
I shit you not. And this homeless encampment is sanctioned by the city by virtue of omission: they refuse to move it.
I remember a few years ago someone talking about how demoralizing it is to live in a society that propagandizes itself with lies that everyone knows to be untrue, but is told to believe. This is one of the thousands of small lies my city tells to me, and I'm expected to nod in agreement that our natural resources are our most precious human resources.
Needless to say, I mentally gave the sign a middle finger and let my dog splash around in the creek before walking on, because fuck you, that's why.
If you want to keep acting like that you'd better get a party card, and perhaps get elevated to elite party status.
Hope he votes (D) at every level, or that sort of insolence will get him a bunk at Covid quarantine camp.
Did you find that Michigan Man of the Year award that Trump was lying about? It should be easy since they must have had one every year for decades. Was he lying? Simple yes or no? Now you've been added to the list of liars, are you religious? Are you going to hell to cover for the biggest liar of all time?
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/16/politics/fact-check-dale-top-15-donald-trump-lies/index.html
you obviously have nothing worthwhile to contribute... congratulations - you are my second mute
Trump? WTF douche.
See a fucking doctor about your TDS.
In any case, what asshole turns a residential green space into a delicate ecosystem off limits to exactly the sort of stuff you'd expect in a residential green space? I swear to god environmentalists are like humanity's Penitentes (ed: uh, sir, aren't Penitentes humanity's penitentes?). They love nothing better than inflicting misery on themselves and everyone else as a sign of their pious nature.
I remember as a kid spending a bunch of time on mountain trails fixing drainage and erosion control. I have to assume that the kids of today must be up there digging up the pipes and erosion barriers in order to let them melt off the delicate mountains.
Many environmentalists and others slavishly devoted to their pet causes at on the autism spectrum, like Greta. So they can’t see the bigger picture
Retelling a joke on here earlier
When did CNN lose interest in gretta?
When she turned 18
Okay, that made me chuckle.
She was too old for John Griffin.
The Ghost of Climate Change Future.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66890686@N02/51686573242/in/dateposted-public/
They are sitting at home watching TikTok videos.
They want you to be gone, Overt. Not them.
As much of a massive hack Tom Clancy was in his writing style, (and said laziness translating in other things like banging his assistant), he was dead on with the deep ecology types in Rainbow Six.
Utopia is paved with the bones of all the motherfuckers who wouldn't get with the program. I fear the time when much of humanity becomes obsolete in the light of self-replicating, self-iterative learning machinery. We will be replaced, and if the tech isn't here yet, it ain't far behind.
Not the Party bosses though; someone has to look out for the proletariat...
Dog urine kills the grass. Hence the signs. The humans and their urine undoubtedly showed up after the signs were placed. Incidentally, human urine doesn't kill grass, in case you were worried.
Oh, then a river of hobo urine is just fine, right?
Grass is an equal opportunity urine welcomer whether hobo, drunken frat boy, or the neighborhood public peeing pervert. Just no dogs, Or wolves, coyotes, foxes, seals, or any member of the canid family.
Dog crap is great for small tributaries. It gets washed in creating high BOD resulting in low DO for the aquatic life. Homeless camp will result in the same thing.
My little tributaries could with a pick me up.
Leftist environmentalists probably think wild African dogs caused the Sahara desert.
I was surprised recently that hyenas are not wild African dogs. They are members of the feline family. Jackals are wild African dogs, according to leftist environmentalists and other experts.
Seattle has lot of rain - are the effective of dog urine minimized there since it could be washed out?
What's the deal with rain, anyway?
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I remember a few years ago someone talking about how demoralizing it is to live in a society that propagandizes itself with lies that everyone knows to be untrue, but is told to believe.
I think you're referring to this quote by Theodore Dalrymple:
“Political correctness is communist propaganda writ small. In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, not to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
+ 4 lights.
Good one - Joe Friday would say +3
I miss this commentariat meme. Thank you for reviving it.
"I shit you not." I see what you did there.
“In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate; and therefore, the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One’s standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control. I think if you examine political correctness, it has the same effect and is intended to.”
—Theodore Dalrymple
I fully relate to what you are saying. My store is flanked with two homeless encampments, one behind it near the DMV office and one next door. We are swarmed every day be these two-legged locusts either begging in the parking lot or shoplifting. More and more of our merchandise has to be under locked cases.
I've joked with oeople that eventually, we'll beclikexMr. Drucker's store on Green Acres, where you order from the counter and Mr. Drucker picks it out from the back. Perhaps my joke may come true.
This should be interesting. Sorta like the Leninists fighting the Trotskyites.
"I shit you not."
THAT defiant attitude will get YOU in double trouble with Dear Leader!!!
https://www.thedailybeast.com/desperate-kim-jong-un-pleads-with-north-korean-citizens-to-make-more-poop
Desperate Kim Jong Un Pleads With Citizens to Make More Poop
N. Korea Government Almighty NEEDS more of your poops! (Food scraps, assuming there are any, and yard waste will do as well; they are "honorary poop"... I assume you would agree if forced to eat N. Korean food as is available to the peons there.)
Hitler and Stalin cribbed off of each other, concerning how to terrorize the unbelievers. Now, with regards to yard waste and poop? N. Korea and Californicator cities are cribbing off of each other, too!
This was meant as a response to Diane Reynolds (Paul.) above...
That sure scooped your interest.
On December 17, 2021, San Francisco Mayor London Breed declared a state of emergency in the city's Tenderloin district, which will lead to an increased police presence in the epicenter of the city's growing homelessness and addiction crisis.
fyi, this sudden about-face after a couple of years of #defundthepolice #crimedoesntexist and being "houseless isn't a crime" attitude (and I'll believe there's a turnaround when I see it-- pay attention to what they do, not what they say) is likely the result of their super-wealthy progressive patrons getting clocked over the head while shopping in a Louboutin (I think I finally have the spelling right) boutique. Nobody gave a fuck when it was the dirty working classes in Target who were getting hit.
The criminals, after getting no pushback (and in fact literally getting encouragement from progressives) or suffering any consequences at the low-end joints got emboldened and spread to the higher end joints-- they pissed off the Wrong People(tm).
It's cheaper to increase police presence than it is to provide the homeless with basic hygienic facilities like toilets.
How about a basic bus ticket?
"How about a basic bus ticket?"
Too small. Have you ever tried shitting on a bus ticket, and a basic one at that? Toilets are better, believe me.
I think Earth-Based Human Skeptic means a bus ticket to get the homeless and their shit the fuck outta here to any place else.
Not a practical solution. Providing hygienic facilities is better.
Seattle spends a billion a year on the homeless problem, enough to give each one 50k a year.
Government can't solve homelessness.
Government can't solve homelessness.
But it can make those in the "homeless advocacy" industry pretty well off.
Where I worked, one of our Paramedic supervisors delved deep into the "homeless" problem and spent his days directing as many as he could to services to help them.
The "homeless advocates" complained to the mayor, and his assignment was ordered to be terminated.
You're on fire tonight Paul. Great post.
Hope you haven't addressed it in another thread, but wanted to get your take on Sawant recall since you are a Seattle homebody.
Thanks and take it easy.
I'd think that, but 'flash mobs' have been breaking shit on the Mag. Mile for damn near a decade now, and people keep 'voting' (Yes, two not-quite quotation mark sets in the same sentence. At least I didn't use air fingers to punctuate.) in shit like Beetlejuice.
I wonder if it's akin to religious asceticism? But I don't think much will change. For now. Eventually the useful idiots are useless.
Especially so since one of their own elite leftists was murdered by one of those po' people, they've decided their own political stances on the First Amendment may need to be revisited.
Local gun dealer can't keep shotguns in stock now and attendance at gun safety classes has risen sharply.
I guess the liberal elites may have miscalculated a wee bit as to their own personal safety.
The big question is: if someone invades Alec Baldwin's home, will they be shot immediately?
Meant to say homeboy but homebody could work as well!
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This sounds a lot like what Ed Koch tried to do in NYC in the 1980s. It worked because NYC hadn’t been entirely pussified yet, like it and SF are now
Imagine how much EssEff would shit if a Giuliani-type was installed.
Ain’t gonna happen. Other than some bear types, don’t think anyone in SF has balls. It’s mostly just (somewhat) tough talk and will stay that way. Maybe arrest a few bums who are hanging out near the tourist areas and techies then release them in Oakland.
https://www.vipzone-nightclub.ro/
Ruining American cites will never satisfy progressives, their goal is to ruin America.
This week in Boston I saw a headline about bulldozers clearing away the remains of a large homeless camp.
Sounds like the homeless problem was solved there.
The liberal elites are having problems with their own creations, sorta like Dr. Frankenstein and his own monster.
Close all the mental institutions, force the mentally ill out into the streets.....what could go wrong? Time to rethink the use of mental institutions and utilize the lessons learned since. These people do not belong on the streets. Yet, thanks to liberal ideology, the institutions were all closed and now the general public is being punished. Worse, those with mental problems end up in jail with no help or consideration. How cruel is that?
All the money allocated and wasted on projects supposedly to help the homeless have come to very little success if at all. Most of it was flittered away in administration of outright stolen.
You can see the results in cities like Frisco and L.A., in cities like Portland and Seattle.
So the liberals have, for some reason come to the conclusions that just maybe their ideas about how to handle the homeless situation including those with mental illness may need to be adjusted.
It's a few years too late.
RIP: Ronnie Spector
Mental health and drug addiction stuff may be problems. But attributing homelessness to those is nothing but a diversion away from housing prices. Most people benefit immensely from higher housing prices. And if that causes others to be homeless - well let's just pretend those homeless people are just sick junkies.
"Homelessness" is not a result of housing prices.
Every day, thousands of illegal immigrants cross our border.
You won't see any of them in "homeless" encampments.
They seem to be able to find affordable housing.
Good interview!
I'm a fan of this guy.
My relief was palpable when I learned that Zach was interviewing him rather than Gillespie.
"groups like the Coalition on Homelessness, who castigated the move as an "expansion of strategies that have been tried and failed" that would contribute to the "instability and poor public health outcomes" of people living on the streets. "
LOL. As opposed to what's happening now? Bet me these groups don't just want MORE Money!
It's a good thing that letting in hundreds of millions of immigrants with the same ideology results in nothing but sunshine and rainbows or else there might be a minor flaw in libertarian ideology.
One big flaw in Shellenberger's (and most progressives') thinking is his ignorant ideas about psychiatrists and psychiatry, that they are the go-to group when it comes to mental illness. There's a reason mental institutions were shut down in the past... they were abusive and caused more damage than help.
The religion of psychiatry is coming to an end as they are increasingly found to be at the bottom of the majority of mass shooters, assassins and suicides. We need to handle the homeless and mentally ill with "real" science. Not quackery and the pseudo-science of psychiatry.
Dude says around 11:00 that "drug abuse is sometimes self-inflicted".
Sometimes?