Big Government Is Back, Baby!

And hope for the future (still) lies outside of the state.

1x 1.1x 1.25x 1.5x 2x 3x

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Big Government Is Back, Baby!

Matt Welch, Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Nick Gillespie are back from Memorial Day weekend and ready to dish on The Reason Roundtable about the presidential spending bill, vaccination requirements, and our pandemic progress.

Discussed in the show:

0:36: President Joe Biden presented his budget proposal and the Roundtable breaks it down.

35:09: Weekly Listener Question: There is a strong case to be made to prohibit cruises from requiring vaccine confirmation. As soon as you grant the premise that the CDC can boss you around unilaterally, we will never go back. I see no problem with Florida and other states mandating that businesses grow a spine and tell the CDC to fuck off. We cannot be governed by the CDC and other medical tyrants at any cost. Discuss.

52:00: Media recommendations for the week.

This week's links:

• "Covid's Deadliest Phase May Be Here Soon," by Zeynep Tufekci
• "Joe Biden's $6 Trillion Budget Proposal Will Hike Spending, Keep Deficits Near Record Highs," by Eric Boehm
• "Expanding tax credit ignores precedent," by Veronique de Rugy

Send your questions to [e-mail]. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

Today's sponsors:

• If you feel something interfering with your happiness or holding you back from your goals, BetterHelp is an accessible and affordable source for professional counseling. BetterHelp assesses your needs and matches you with a licensed therapist you can start talking to in under 24 hours, all online.

Audio production by Ian Keyser.
Assistant production by Regan Taylor.
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve.

What are we consuming this week?

Nick Gillespie

• Let's Be Real

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• The Anthropocene Reviewed: Essays on a Human-Centered Planet by John Green

Matt Welch

• Raya and the Last Dragon

Peter Suderman

• Klara and the Sun: A novel, by Kazuo Ishiguro

---

Comments

[Don't look at me!]

There is a strong case to be made to prohibit cruises from requiring vaccine confirmation. As soon as you grant the premise that the CDC can boss you around unilaterally, we will never go back. I see no problem with Florida and other states mandating that businesses grow a spine and tell the CDC to fuck off. We cannot be governed by the CDC and other medical tyrants at any cost.

Beautiful.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Cruise ships should have the right to toss passengers overboard who violate social distancing guidelines. A cruise ship is a platform, not a publisher.

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[JesseAz]

Reasons take a week ago.

https://reason.com/2021/05/28/ron-desantis-threatens-to-capsize-cruise-ship-industry-if-they-require-vaccinations/

[Mother's Lament]

Yes, but to be fair that was ENB and she was just telling us what her Twitter feed told her to believe.

But, then again, as Gillespie says "ENB is the most libertarian person I know".

[JesseAz]

As sarcasmic says jeff is the one true libertarian here.

[Mother's Lament]

Was it Jeff or Chipper (I know, I know, they're probably the same guy) that said Marxism was Libertarian?

[Nardz]

Both

[JesseAz]

Chipper.

Chipper Morning Wood--------------------------------------------------------------------------
May.26.2021 at 6:29 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
Libertarians have more in common with Marxism than with modern conservatism.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

ENB is the most libertarian person Nick knows? He needs to get out more. Like out of the fucking beltway. He’s completely lost touch.

[The Encogitationer]

Big Government Is Back, Baby!

When did it ever leave?

[Nardz]

There's a reason they keep hitting this narrative, and it's not because of what they've done, but what they're going to do.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1399837556796276742?s=19

NOW - Biden: “Terrorism from white supremacy is the most lethal threat to the homeland today.”

[Video]

[JesseAz]

A breakdown as an example of how this narrative is manipulated.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/lies_damn_lies_and_islamic_terrorism_statistics.html

Islamic terror often is classified as workplace violence. See shootings by islamacists at bases as an example.

Pulse night club was also classified as anti gas, but the location was determined with a simple night club search after the shooter deemed Disneyland was too secure.

Scalise shooting classified as suicide by cop until 2 weeks ago.

It is leftists corrupting even data.

The GAO database discussed in the link also includes minority on minority violence as white domestic violence. It is amazing to see.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

Civil war is coming, sooner than later. These scumbag marxists want complete dominance.

[IceTrey]

When they go for the guns.

[Roberta]

"anti gas" = antifa's?

[Roberta]

The wages of autocorrect is chuckles.

[Minadin]

I think it was supposed to be 'anti-gay'.

[Eeyore]

Our delusions are sometimes the scariest things.

[JesseAz]

The consequences of your actions seem to have caught up. Good work Reason.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

I know that she was a mean old lady, but she answered the listener very well, long ago:

“Economic power is exercised by means of a positive, by offering men a reward, an incentive, a payment, a value; political power is exercised by means of a negative, by the threat of punishment, injury, imprisonment, destruction. The businessman’s (cruise lines) tool is values; the bureaucrat’s (DeSantis) tool is fear.” ~ Ayn Rand

[JesseAz]

The cdc is the one issuing out unmasked regulations regarding masks. The threat of regulations are often as pervasive as the regulations. But sure, ignore that.

[MT-Man]

To them and tony if you push back against a narrative your the terrorist. Its im right and if you disagree ill make you the bad guy

[Mother's Lament]

Big business behaving in an unlibertarian manner is no better from a libertarian perspective than big government behaving in a libertarian manner.
Libertarianism is a life philosophy, not a set of policy restrictions on government.

I don't want a church, big business or government making regulations about how others choose to live their lives. Give advice, but never compel.

[Mother's Lament]

"big government behaving in an UNlibertarian manner."

[IceTrey]

Political libertarianism is absolutely a restriction government. It holds that government must be prohibited from initiating force.

[CLM1227]

But small l libertarianism is about more than politics. And for political libertarianism to succeed, then there needs to be cultural libertarianism already at work. Otherwise, even those who want to just be left alone will fight for control of a government to restrain those they see as interfering with their freedom.

[jgress]

Er no that is absolutely not what libertarianism is. Libertarianism doesn’t say you can behave however you like with no regard to the rights of others. It says that only private individuals have rights, and the only justification for government is to protect those rights. Government doesn’t have a right to tell me what I can allow or not allow on my property; I have that right. I am absolute monarch and dictator over what I legitimately own - no more and no less.

[JeremyR]

Except we see companies punish people all the time.

The tech companies basically control what can or cannot be said. And say the wrong thing, you'll lose your job.

And it seems like there's a online mob just looking for people to cancel. Like right now this Ellie Klampet person, who was a beauty queen at a ball in St. Louis.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The tech companies basically control what can or cannot be said.

On their property, sure. But only on their property.

[IceTrey]

They recieve government protection.

[TJJ2000]

And government demands. Democratic Politicians CALLED tech companies to censor massive amounts of people NOT just President Trump. That kind of Nazi behavior shouldn't be shoved under the rug.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Nick has an interesting idea to consider: Maybe we should advocate for actually paying for the government that we are getting?

If people had to pay the taxes for the government that we actually had, people would demand less of it.

[JesseAz]

Lol. You have advocated more and more spending, generally of other people's money. One day you will realize raised taxes is just utilized by your favorite lefties to spend even more. Probably when you get an education.

[Don't look at me!]

We have to pay for it to see what’s in it.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

We know what's in it. It's all right there. But we aren't paying the full cost of it because the majority of the budget is actually funded by borrowed money.

IF taxes were raised to match the true cost of government, then the reasoning goes, people would demand less of it. Raise prices, demand goes down. That is the thinking anyway from Nick's comment.

[JesseAz]

And proof youre an idiot. Show one time raising taxes decreased spending.

Youre a fool. And I think you know it.

[creech]

Happens all the time in state and especially local situations where income has to equal outgo.

[JesseAz]

Find me one time increased taxes caused the decreased spending.

Just because a government like Chicago decreases pension pay ins while raising taxes due to their previous spending problems doesn't mean the higher spending caused the lower spending. Especially since it is rare a state or locality ever actually spends less from year to year.

Even cities and states assume baseline budgeting.

[Mother's Lament]

If Jeff was libertarian instead of authoritarian corporatist he'd know better: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_as_theft

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

Hey Jeffy, I have news for you. There isn’t enough money to do that. At this point it would probably take around 25-30% of the world’s GDP to pay for what we actually spend.

It isn’t sustainable. The US won’t survive as long as we tolerate democrats and RINO’s.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Well, that is a bit of hyperbole. The current level of spending is something like $6 trillion, while world GDP is around $94 trillion.

But still, yes, it would take an awful lot of tax money to actually pay for what we spend. And that is part of the point. There is no way to raise that amount of taxes by only "taxing the rich". The tax burden would have to be shouldered by a broader segment of the population. I mean, it's going to have to come to that at some point anyway, it's just math.

[Don't look at me!]

Still you don’t mention of cutting spending.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

This is potentially a way to get less spending, in the end.

[BigT]

This could work if handled properly.

Don’t raise taxes. Rather, at the end of the year, divide the deficit by the number of people and send tax bills to all of them. That would get their attention.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Something like that, is the general idea.

[IceTrey]

Taxation is robbery.

[TJJ2000]

"If people had to pay the taxes for the government that we actually had, people would demand less of it."

Actually a very 'good' point. We can talk all day about how not taxing/stealing is the way but few are going to care as much as they will care when a big fat tax is collected from them.

I myself like this idea - it's honest, straight and simply put as -- "We allowed the fed to go Nazi now pay the consequences." instead of kick the can down the road. The USA cannot survive this evil and pretending it isn't there doesn't help.

Biden's $6T infrastructure bill = $27,500 BILL on each and every citizen... Watch the citizens change their Nazi-Goals.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

As too many lurch to not only see but to propagandize the seen, the unseen is always were the real risks and damage lurks.

"The unseen COVID-19 risk for unvaccinated people"

"The country’s declining COVID-19 case rates present an unrealistically optimistic perspective for half of the nation - the half that is still not vaccinated.

As more people receive vaccines, COVID-19 cases are occurring mostly in the increasingly narrow slice of the unprotected population. So The Washington Post adjusted its case, death and hospitalization rates to account for that — and found that in some places, the virus continues to rage among those who haven’t received a shot.

The rosy national figures showing declining case numbers led the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to loosen mask recommendations two weeks ago and President Joe Biden to advise people to take off their masks and smile.

But adjustments for vaccinations show the rate among susceptible, unvaccinated people is 73% higher than the standard figures being publicized. With that adjustment, the national death rate is roughly the same as it was two months ago and is barely inching down. The adjusted hospitalization rate is as high as it was three months ago. The case rate is still declining after the adjustment.

Unvaccinated people are getting the wrong message,..."

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2021/05/29/the-unseen-covid-19-risk-for-unvaccinated-people/

Whether b

[ElvisIsReal]

Of course that difference is almost entirely because we have two different criteria for cases:

If vaxxed, you must test positive on a 28ct PCR test, AND BE IN THE HOSPITAL. (They are no longer tracking breakthrough cases unless they require hospitalization or lead to death!)

If unvaxxed, any positive test at 35-40 ct counts as a case.

Considering how much more powerful a 35 ct test is rather than 28, AND the hospitalization requirement, it's no wonder we're seeing a divergence. If we had required a hospitalization and positive on a 28 ct PCR test the whole time, we wouldn't even know covid was a thing.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Do you have a reference for this?

[JesseAz]

You had this linked to you multiple times last year.

[JesseAz]

This being PCR testing rates and the issues woth high PCR values.

[Nardz]

And I linked to direct comparison of the two standards just a couple days ago

[chemjeff radical individualist]

What, the 28 test and the 35 test? No, I was talking about the different criteria for counting different cases.

And I don't read anything Jesse writes.

[JesseAz]

Yes, you're an idiot who prefers you own unintelligent bubbles.

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

You should. You wouldn’t be so misinformed and poorly educated if you did.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Jesse's entire schtick is: 1. insults 2. whataboutisms 3. complete lies and strawmen. Basically treating Reason as an extension of his social media feed, where evidently NO U SUCK is considered high-brow debate over there.

[JesseAz]

No, I only insult dishonest people like yourself.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I look at where he has commented here, and he has felt the need to post a response to every single thing that I have posted. He continually does that. He is a troll that follows me around. Well I can't stop him from trolling and stalking me but I don't have to read his bullshit. He is very clearly insecure and can only make himself feel better by tearing down people. He can only troll and stalk and insult and belittle people. He cannot win on intellectual merit alone. He can only "win" by trashing people.

[Don't look at me!]

Ok, sarc.

[JesseAz]

Most of the posts were substantive. You've just realized your sophistry doesn't have solid foundations so have muted those who expose your logical flaws.

[Nardz]

That's exactly what I linked to

[MT-Man]

Wtf are you saying we had 21 cases in mt. Please I’d love to see how you explain the raging case count here for the high proportion of unvaccinated

[Union of Concerned Socks]

Big government is back? BACK?!?

It's been here since the Wilson administration.

Back. LOL.

[Nemo Aequalis]

Big government never went anywhere. Big government never will go anywhere, short of being overthrown. That isn't in the nature of government.

Which is why you should be skeptical of any political movements that propose to deliver smaller government. It ain't ever happened, and pursuing it is most likely a distraction from pursuing action that will make the inevitable big government more palatable. Or, if you're really serious, overthrowing the big government and starting over.

[TJJ2000]

And for any confused TDS lefty-sh*t.. There it is; the very reason Trump has a loyal following.

He was the only President in the last century to even attempt federal De-Regulating. No he didn't do all that much but heading in the right direction means a whole heck of a lot in a government system consistently falling off the cliffs of Nazism.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1399813030066724865?s=19

Democracy dies in stealth edits on 15-month-old headlines [image]

[Don't look at me!]

Unreal. It’s like Orwell was a time traveler.

[Mother's Lament]

That's basically lying.
I bet Jeff and White Mike wish that they had edit buttons that would let them do that too.

[CannedSaltyHam]

Nice @ Robby's response: "Next up: Republicans pounce"

[chemjeff radical individualist]

The edit comes with an acknowledgement that the headline was edited. Hardly stealthy.

They acknowledged their error and they fixed it. Isn't that what you are always demanding that they do?

Would you have preferred that the Post kept the original headline which made inaccurate claims against Tom Cotton?

[JesseAz]

Acknowledgement was added after the change was noted.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

Yes, then everyone wouleasily know and remember that the press are a bunch of lying evil scumbags who believe it is their job to push the progressive narrarative, you know like you

[chemjeff radical individualist]

O/T: Well, this should be interesting reading.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/nataliebettendorf/fauci-emails-covid-response?origin=web-hf

[Mother's Lament]

Fauci... Fauci... Isn't he the guy who hired the Wuhan lab to do gain of function research on Coronaviruses, including the strain that escaped, and then pretended he knew nothing about it for a year and a half?
Isn't he also the guy who lied to congress about his involvement in the debacle?

He sounds very trustworthy, Jeff.

[JesseAz]

The emails show Fauci being thanked for stopping the lab leak theory from a person who was then given 15 million from the NIH and was heavily quoted from liberal media. An outfit named Eco Alliance.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

Isn't fauci the guy that was completely wrong about allergies? And aids? And Wuhan flu?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

O/T: So, Biden talks about wanting to reduce the "racial wealth gap".

https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-plan-racial-wealth-gap-on-tulsa-100th-anniversary-2021-6

Of course his ideas are hamfisted and probably won't do much if anything to solve the stated problem. But it does beg the question a little bit, is the "racial wealth gap" something that libertarians should be concerned about? After all, past discrimination by disfavored groups meant that they were less able, or even unable, to build wealth at the same rate as those who were not the targets of discrimination, or less so at least. Since wealth compounds over time, even though such prior egregious forms of discrimination are long gone, the impact of that past discrimination is "baked into the cake". All else equal, that gap will persist, and perhaps even grow, over time. Is this a problem? If so, is there a libertarian remedy for this problem?

[JesseAz]

Nobody finds your questions interesting outside of a high school civics club in a cafeteria.

[Apollonius]

JUNIOR high school.

[JesseAz]

And just because you'll never understand. Libertarianism for uses on the individual. Not group identity. Something you fail to notice in all aspects. Youre a socialist.

[Mother's Lament]

A better plan would be to stop infantalizing Blacks, aborting their babies en masse, and telling them that they're helpless victims who can't do a thing without the rich, white Democratic Party holding their hand.

[JesseAz]

BIDEN: "…young black entrepreneurs are just as capable of succeeding given the chance as white entrepreneurs are, but they don't have lawyers, they don't have accountants…"

[Mother's Lament]

Somebody give that young black entrepreneur a Jewish lawyer and a cracker accountant, ASAP!!

My accountant is Nigerian, so if he visits DC he must become imaginary.

[JesseAz]

It is a rare double racism from biden as it assumes no minorities are accountants or lawyers as well.

[JesseAz]

The goods.

https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/06/01/member-of-who-investigative-team-thanked-brave-anthony-fauci-for-publicly-supporting-bat-to-human-spillover-theory/

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

True, although Biden is frequently a double dumbass.

[American Mongrel]

Id like my accountant to be jewish also, please.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/DelanoSquires/status/1399790449175453698?s=19

“Kendian” thinking is what you get when simplistic theories 1) confirm existing beliefs, 2) get endorsed by cultural tastemakers, and 3) are exempted from the typical standards of evaluation. This is all that can be produced once a culture rejects rigor and merit.
[Video]

[chemjeff radical individualist]

What are you even talking about. What is "Kendian" about what I wrote. "Racial wealth gap" is an actual thing that can be calculated. The question is if this is a concern that deserves attention or not, and if so, what would be a libertarian-focused solution for it.

[DesigNate]

The answer is no. You can’t hold present people responsible for past peoples actions.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I agree! Which is why I am asking for a libertarian-focused solution.

An example *might* be, to encourage people to shop at minority-owned businesses, all else equal. No one is forced, no one is punished.

[JesseAz]

Again you expose your focus on the collective as defined by group identity instead of the individual. That is socialist thinking not libertarian.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/AlexBerenson/status/1399874828996431872?s=19

Oops. On March 2, Fauci estimates a 2% mortality rate from the virus. He’s off by a factor of 10, give or take.

This was the mistake that drove all the others. [Link]

[CannedSaltyHam]

Estimated or hoped?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

O/T: Very interesting article on the origins of modern conservatism.

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-willmoore-kendall-and-james-burnham-are-prophets-modern-conservatism-184046

[JesseAz]

When did you start linking to nixonian and neo conservative sites? Is it merely because they agree with your presuppositions.

This is a pro war outfit that keeps fear mongering about world War 3. Lol.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/wwiii-watch-second-russian-invasion-ukraine-inevitable-186592

Are you going to link to Bill Kristof next?

[JesseAz]

Kristol *

[Mark Thrust, Sexus Ranger]

I’m not familiar with that outfit, but as as soon as I saw it was linked by Jeffy, I knew it would be something like that. My Marxist aunt does that kind of thing too.

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/peterboghossian/status/1399766858065092610?s=19

I am proud to announce my enduring scholarly legacy.

The Conceptual Penis as a Social Construct has just been cited in a peer reviewed paper for Quarterly Review of Film and Video. @ConceptualJames

#PenisPrimacy

[Link]

[Nardz]

https://twitter.com/rising_serpent/status/1399891343984533509?s=19

So you really expect me to believe that the two of Green New Deal's greatest arch nemeses, red meat and gasoline, just happened to coincidentally be "hacked" by "Russians" in the same month?

[JeremyR]

It's almost like computer hackers are super left wing or something!

[eyeroller]

It is great to hear so much discussion of budget and economic stuff. Keep banging that entitlement drum.

[Light]

Pulse night club was also classified as anti gas, but the location was determined with a simple night club search after the shooter deemed Disneyland was too secure.

Scalise shooting classified as suicide by cop until 2 weeks ago.

It is leftists corrupting even data.
( https://wapexclusive,com ,The GAO database discussed in the link also includes minority on minority violence as white domestic violence. It is amazing to see.

[drisco304]

Big Government is Back, Baby, and is trying to ensure that it's the only answer. Or the problem, for that matter.

[williams25248]

Big Government is back? It was never gone.

[FastSEOsolutions]

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[Neil Smith]

From a libertarianism standpoint, big business functioning unlibertarily is no better than big authority behaving libertarily.
Conservatism is a way of life, not a set of disabled people on government.
I don't want a church, a multinational company, or the military imposing rules on how others live their lives. Give counsel, but never force yourself to provide it.
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[Neil Smith]

What sure what you're talking about? What exactly is “Kendian” about what I came to write? The “gap between rich and poor” is a major problem that can then be measured. The argument is whether this is a concern worthy of discussion, and if so, what would be a republican answer.best regards: guest posting websites