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Albuquerque Admits to One Car-Stealing Mistake, In Failed Attempt to Avoid Judgment on Their Overall Property-Stealing Policies

Some good news for Arlene Harjo out of New Mexico today: she'll be getting back the car the city of Albuquerque stole from her.

Institute for JusticeInstitute for Justice

As C.J. Ciaramella reported here in August, the Institute for Justice is helping Harjo sue the city of Albuquerque, which has been systematically ignoring state law that should prevent them from straight-up stealing citizen property without convicting the owner of any crime. (There are simultaneous cases arguing roughly the same issues in both state and federal court.)

As Ciaramella wrote then:

Republican New Mexico Gov. Susan Martinez signed a bill into law last year essentially ending civil asset forfeiture in the state, based largely on critical stories about programs like Albuquerque's...New Mexico's reforms require a criminal conviction to seize property.

Despite the reforms, Albuquerque has continued to seize cars like Harjo's, arguing the law does not apply to it. Two state lawmakers sued the city last year for its refusal to comply with the new law, but their case was dismissed due to lack of standing.

Harjo's son had been driving her car, a 2014 Nissan Versa, in April when he was arrested for drunk driving. She was still paying off the car loan, but the city took it.

The city offered Harjo her car back if she paid them $4,000. She fought this at an administrative hearing, where the hearing officer was the very man who created the city's asset-theft program. (She lost at that hearing.)

Today the Institute for Justice reports that Harjo is getting her car back, which is great for her.

But Albuquerque isn't admitting its entire practice is against state law. It's just saying that in the specific case of Harjo's car, they made a mistake, taking a car that was not actually in their city limits at the time, though the police involved previously insisted it was.

The city wanted Harjo's legal challenges to be rendered moot and ended because of this admission. The problem with that as a solution to the larger issues raised by her suit was hinted at in an Institute for Justice press release emailed today:

the city's confession avoids the key issue in Arlene's lawsuit, which is whether the city's forfeiture program violates a 2015 state law abolishing civil forfeiture. Instead, the city now says that it reviewed the videotape of the seizure and determined that Arlene's car was outside city limits when it was seized, meaning the city did not have jurisdiction over the seizure....

"We're thrilled that Arlene is getting her car back," said IJ attorney Robert Everett Johnson, who represents Arlene. "But this lawsuit has always been about more than a single car. Albuquerque's illegal program takes thousands of cars every year. The city cannot make this case go away just by copping to the lesser charge of taking property outside its jurisdiction."

IJ lawyer Robert Everett Johnson, who is handling the case, says this morning that despite the fact that Harjo will be getting her car back, and despite what seems to this reader at least the city trying to use that as an excuse to quash the federal suit, the suit against the city for the damage they already caused her and the possible illegality of the policy in general will indeed be continuing through the courts after a hearing this morning. Johnson says the judge more or less ignored the city's desire to make it go away and scheduled future deadlines for discovery requests and filing of briefs.

Harjo will get her car back, and still get her day in court.

IJ's web page with details on the case and its background.

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  • Zunalter||

    Apparently Breaking Bad had a lasting impact on the area.

  • Bob K||

    The police officers involved are now under criminal indictment for grand theft auto, right?

  • ||

    The state cannot steal your stuff, they already own it. They're just nice enough to let you borrow it for a while, until they change their mind.

  • Get To Da Chippah||

    They reasonably believed the cars was their to steal, so it's okay.

    Love, Hugs, and Kisses,
    SCOTUS

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    No, and in fact the two officers charged, miraculously, in the shooting death of homeless man James Boyd just walked on a hung jury. Much like everywhere else in the country, we've our share of bootlicking copsuckers.

  • Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair||

    I wonder at what point a driver could get away (ultimately) with refusing to comply with the city in such an egregious case as this? Suppose the cop says give me the keys, the driver says no and gives him a copy of the new state law, even getting to the point of physically resisting arrest. Sure the ride would suck, but in the end, would they have to drop all charges and pay restitution and lawyer costs for being such outrageous assholes?

    I know what the realistic answer is, but sometimes the legal system works for peasants in surprising ways. It's a nice dream.

  • Hugh Akston||

    The law doesn't matter, the process is the punishment. if you resisted arrest you might eventually get your car back and learn to walk again, but the city/county/state has dedicated and effectively unlimited resources to mount a formal fight, informal systems to delay or ankle compliance, and absolutely nothing in the way of effective oversight or punishment for internal transgressors. You will run out of resources and break yourself on the rocks of bureaucratic arrogance in the process of getting back what they took from you.

    That's what #lawnodor looks like.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    The government breaking the law with impunity is not law and order.

  • Florida Hipster||

    Somebody just figured out there is no such thing as rule of law.

  • Hugh Akston||

    It's sorta cute to watch it happen, isn't it? Like a kid figuring out that Santa isn't real, but also isn't his dad in a suit, so why was mommy sitting on his lap so long?

  • You ARE a Prog (MJG)||

    The only way to maintain law and order is to break the law. Have you seen the animals out there?? And they can be clever, too, with their money laundering and such.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Sure the ride would suck

    The ride would suck? Like, from inside the body bag? You wouldn't probably feel anything at that point.

  • Karl Hungus||

    . . . the driver says no and gives him a copy of the new state law, even getting to the point of physically resisting arrest.

    I can guarantee that if there were a few instances of violence between a citizen and a costumed city worker trying to rob him his property, with juries refusing to convict the intended victim, the assailants would think long and hard before attempting their crimes. It's no different from a burglar in Texas being much more hesitant to commit a home invasion than a similar burglar in New York City.

  • Florida Hipster||

    Good luck getting an honest jury.

  • Karl Hungus||

    Oh, I know. The state rarely has much trouble finding a gaggle of badge bunnies willing to assess blame with the victim.

  • LarryA||

    Suppose the cop says give me the keys, the driver says no and gives him a copy of the new state law

    Cop calls tow truck, and guess who gets to pay the fee.

    even getting to the point of physically resisting arrest.

    Don't know about New Mexico, but under Texas law use of force is not justified to resist a legal or illegal arrest unless, before you make any resistance, the cop uses "greater force than necessary." Penal Code 9.31(b)(2)

  • josh||

    "but under Texas law use of force is not justified to resist a legal or illegal arrest unless, before you make any resistance, the cop uses "greater force than necessary." Penal Code 9.31(b)(2)"

    i'm a little confused how a cop doing anything illegally doesn't automatically meet the definition of using "greater force than necessary".

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Despite the reforms, Albuquerque has continued to seize cars like Harjo's, arguing the law does not apply to it. Two state lawmakers sued the city last year for its refusal to comply with the new law, but their case was dismissed due to lack of standing.

    Ok so what now? Where's RC to disentangle this for us?

  • Chip Your Pets||

    RC is a hospital lawyer who's been proven wrong about his legal claims in the past.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Hospital law is the most pathetic discipline of law.

  • Florida Hipster||

    Unclassy laws. Sad!

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Hospital law isn't big league.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • Crusty Juggler||

    My goodness.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    WHOA WHOA WHOA! A little warning, Thigga, I'm at work!

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Paul, HM wants everyone currently working to lose their job and then move in with him. He has this Hit and Run/Animal House scenario running through his twisted mind.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Pretty much.

    If by "Animal House," you mean "Saw".

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Monica Potter inspired many Counting Crows songs. She is a monster.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    WHO?!

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    ...Meh. How's the rent?

  • Derpetologist||

    Heroic Mulatto awoke in a bare room lit by a naked light bulb. An old TV in front of him flicked on. It showed a ghastly puppet. It spoke to him.

    "Hello Heroic Mulatto. You don't know me, but I know you. I want to play a game. Here's what happens if you lose. On the other side of the door to your cell is Tyler Perry. He's been stuck by himself for a week with nothing but Red Bull and a box of wigs. He's dying to perform the new one man show he's written. It features lots of twerking- your favorite. To avoid this fate, you must eat through the wall of poorly seasoned pad thai behind you. Look around your cell and know I'm not lying. You'd better hurry up. Live or die. The choice is yours."

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'm taking my chances with the pad thai, which is terrible even when well seasoned.

  • Derpetologist||

    It's seasoned with old ketchup and you only get 2 cans of warm Bud Light to wash it down.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    What's wrong with pad thai? It's got meat and noodles and whatnot.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    What's wrong with pad thai? It's got meat and noodles and whatnot.

    Nothing. But some places make it too sweet. And yes, I know, it's not Real Traditional Thai Food(tm). Who cares.

    4 stars please.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Gimme heaps of crushed red chile and crushed peanuts and I'll be happy.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Real Traditional Thai Food(tm)

    Says who? I lived there for 5 years and saw a lot of pad thai stalls.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I don't like the consistency of the noodles and the ingredients don't mix well. I'm not a big fan of pad see ew either for the same reason.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Aren't 50% of lawyers in a trial are proven wrong about their legal claims?

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    AFAIK it's something to do with harm suffered. Only one of the two is an Albuquerque resident (it may have been predicated on Bernalillo County residence, I can't recall), and neither had a car seized. So, no standing.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Despite the reforms, Albuquerque has continued to seize cars like Harjo's, arguing the law does not apply to it.

    Question for our legal eagles here. If an aggressive governor decided, could they have the state police take over the local police to force compliance?

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Some sort of SWAT raid is probably in order.

  • Karl Hungus||

    If an aggressive governor decided, could they have the state police take over the local police to force compliance?

    Of could a judge whose order to return a victim's property has been ignored then have the chief of police held in jail on contempt charges until the property is returned?

  • Derpetologist||

  • Lee Genes||

    I can accomplish that in one email for $100

  • Lee Genes||

    That reads like a manual for "going clear". I liked the Hubbard version better though.

  • Zunalter||

    As sad as this class is, what makes me even more sad is that the parody industry may never recover from The Great SJW Scourge.

  • The Fusionist||

    "Look, we both know that you're only here because HR said you have to go, but if you just fill out these favorable reviews of our program we'll just sign all these attendance cards for you to turn in, and we'll give you a cut of our commission."

    /ha ha they probably don't let them off that easy

  • Zunalter||

    BTW, a 10-week course on toxic whiteness sounds exactly like something that I would expect a Derpetologist to sell, FWIW.

  • Derpetologist||

    And if you don't have 10 weeks, simply attend the weekend White Privilege Conference. Some events may be segregated by race.

    http://www.whiteprivilegeconference.com/

  • Derpetologist||

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    No thanks, I'm all stocked up on white privilege here.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    I'm trying to imagine the person who looks at something like this and says, "You know, I need a 10-week lecture on what an awful person I am more than the $300".

  • Florida Hipster||

    I have people telling me I'm awful for free already. Why would I part with the three bills?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    People pay dominatrices more for 1 hour.

    300 bucks for 10 weeks of humiliation is a bargain, bro.

  • Lee Genes||

    I don't see stiletto heels anywhere in that course description.

  • westernsloper||

    2. Is there any way I could pay a reduced fee?

    Sponsorships: For people who would like to pay for someone else to take the program.




    My Christmas shopping is complete. Thanks.
  • westernsloper||

    holy html shenanigans. wtf?

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    forgot the slash on the closing blockquote.

  • westernsloper||

    Thanks, I am html ignorant.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Your punishment is: you have to read two SugarFree stories.

    Godspeed.

  • westernsloper||

    I read the last compilation, and after late reading this mornings morning lynx, I sadly realized I was the only one who noticed that Glenn Beck, pictured in the Atlantic Article, was wearing a Warty Hugeman Santa Clause sweater. Both realizations made me think I need to spend my time in a more productive manner.

  • TheZeitgeist||

    Damn you, made me go look at the pic.

    Warty Hugeman and the Santa Cock: A Warty Hugeman Christmas Adventure

    I can see the Nobel in Literature already.

  • Gene||

    can see the Nobel in Literature already.

    He'll show up for the ceremony, it will be the last one.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to identify as something other than white? I myself am a dwarf, so I get minority points.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Wasn't there an ethics prostitute in one of the Hitchhiker's Guide books who specialized in reassuring wealthy patrons that they deserve their wealth?

    I'll do the same thing for the terminally white for a mere fifty bucks.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Ho.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    But for fifty dollars, I'll be your ho. I'll let you know it's fine being... erm.

    Okay, for twentyfive dollars, I'll be your ho...

  • Karl Hungus||

    Here's my favorite bullet point:

    "I feel so guilty about having white privilege, but am I really willing to give up that privilege? Do I even know what that means?"

  • Rhywun||

    "Do I dress myself?"

  • westernsloper||

    She was still paying off the car loan, but the city took it.

    It is good she is getting her car back, but I am not sure I would have not just stopped payment and told the loan holder that the car had new owners and given them the address and phone number of the police, and maybe the address of the city lot it was sitting in so they could go repo it. A hit to the credit rating, but wow, that is wrong to have to continue payments on a car that the city has stolen.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    but wow, that is wrong to have to continue payments on a car that the city has stolen.

    If you haven't already, you should read Ciaramella's story Brian linked to in the beginning of the post. Stealing the car of someone arrested for driving under the influence is big business in that town.

  • westernsloper||

    According to last year's lawsuit against the city, Albuquerque forecasts how many vehicles it will not only seize, but sell at auction. The city's 2016 budget estimates it will have 1,200 vehicle seizure hearings, release 350 vehicles under agreements with the property owners, immobilize 600 vehicles, and to sell 625 vehicles at auction.

    Well, I guess they have a budget to meet. I think I would not live there. Fuck them.

  • Rhywun||

    I wonder if there are any cities that don't do this.

  • LarryA||

    This is what's the matter with "police reform." Police departments don't set their enforcement priorities, city councils do.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    I worked in a law office here in Albuquerque for a year. We mostly did DUI cases. Ripping off defendants and unwitting owners really is big business. Still makes me angry thinking of the greasy shithead city attorney we had to deal with. No compassion, dollar signs for eyes. As you'd imagine, our clientele wasn't exactly Rockefellers. It was pure budget-padding graft.

  • westernsloper||

    In other legal news, but dealing with state inaction

    The petitioners can now go to court and argue that the state has violated their rights under the state constitution and the legal principle called the public trust doctrine, which requires the government to protect shared resources, said Andrea Rodgers, a Western Environmental Law Center attorney representing the youth.
  • Brochettaward = (((pants)))||

    I like how the article is written as if these youths are filing court documents and paying for all of this on their own.

  • Chip Your Pets||

    Once they returned the property, this became just a citizen suing the government for damages incurred during its law enforcement activities. i.e., sovereign immunity kicks in. IJ may have gotten a friendly judge this time, but this is going to get overturned on appeal, if it makes it that far.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Has there never been a case of a citizen successfully suing the government for damages incurred during its lawn enforcement activities?

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Add. If not, why the hell am I paying out all these lawsuits for?

  • dschwar||

    You're not paying lawsuits, you're paying settlements. This way the city attorneys don't have to go to court and lose cases, but can spend more time with lobbyists in bars and on golf courses.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    *googles Randy Weaver*

  • __Warren__||

    *misses and Googles Randy Weaver's wife*

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Ouch.

  • Malvolio||

    Too soon.

  • Jerryskids||

    Where the hell is the State of New Mexico in all this? Unlike sovereign states' relationship to the feds, cities and counties are political subdivisions of the states, created, chartered, incorporated by the states, they are not sovereign, they exist at the pleasure of the state. Albuquerque telling the state the law doesn't apply to them is like your 5-year old telling you to fuck off when you tell him it's bedtime. You simply cannot tolerate that level of insubordination. Send in the National Guard, disband the APD, kick some city council members in the nuts and demand to know who the hell they think they are allowing this sort of shit to go on.

    If Albuquerque can get away with telling the state the law doesn't apply to them, there is absolutely no moral authority in the cops telling you the law applies to you - shoot the fuckers right in the face and drive off just as if they were lawless bandits because that's exactly what they are. The law applies to everybody or the law applies to nobody, motherfucker.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    April 19 2000: The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals grants a request by Elian's Miami relatives to block his return to Cuba.

    April 22 2000: In a pre-dawn raid, armed U.S. federal agents seize Elian Gonzalez from the home of his Miami relatives. Elian is reunited with his father a few hours later. But it will take two months before Eilan and his father would go back to Cuba--two months of court procedures and demonstrations and counter-demonstrations in Miami.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    That's the flap with the state legislators lacking standing. From what I understand, the legislating requiring a criminal conviction for forfeiture caught a lot of people, law enforcement included, entirely by surprise. My semi-educated guess is that the states legislature is hoping the issue takes care of itself via the courts holding Albuquerque to account.

  • Derpetologist||

    OT

    A spokesman for the Afghan Taliban says the group is ready for peace talks with the United States, if their demands are met.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid said earlier this week that their two conditions for peace talks are the removal of the group leader's name from the U.N. blacklist and the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan.
  • GILMORE™||

    they don't even want a formal declaration of surrender? how white of them.

  • The Fusionist||

    The outlines of the eventual sellout are being worked out in North Carolina.

    They seem to be working on a repeal of HB2, followed by a "cooling off period." After the cooling-off period, local governments will be empowered to second-guess private businesses in their interactions with LGBLT customers and employees. And this time the state legislature won't step in to stop it.

  • The Fusionist||

    In this article, one of the RINOs explains the situation: "Basically, it's a few of us urban people against all those rural people."

  • Rhywun||

    Sounds like every federal election.

  • Derpetologist||

    Calexit dingdongs claim to open an embassy in Moscow:

    link linkovich linkov

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    The North will Rise Again?

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Would those be the northern separatists or the West Coast Bank separatists?

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    CLO? Doesn't quite sound right...

  • DOOMco||

    russians are clearly behind this

  • Jerryskids||

    To hell with the anti-sugar cops, I'm drinking me a couple of big ol' Cokes and on top of that I'm fortifying the sugar content with a couple big ol' splashes of distilled sugar cane juice.

    (Which, by the way, proves the axiom about spending money and the difference it makes whether it's your money or someone else's and whether you're spending it on yourself or somebody else - this is some sort of premium rum my niece bought me on her last cruise and it seems a shame to be mixing it into Coke where a $12 bottle would work just as well, but it wasn't me that paid 50 or 60 bucks for it so what do I care? I buy cheap liquor with my own money because I'm mixing it with something anyways so the quality isn't very important.)

  • Derpetologist||

    I believe it was Friedman the Unforgettable who explained the 4 ways to spend money: spend your money on yourself, spend someone else's money on yourself, spend your money on someone else, and spend someone else's money on someone else. All govt spending falls in the last category and that is the category where spending is least likely to produce a good outcome.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Who's this Jerrykid? He's drinking his niece's money? Whatever, give him some rum. No, I don't care how much it costs.

  • Rhywun||

    I'd say a good chunk of it falls under the 2nd category (spend someone else's money on yourself) if you're the one writing the budget.

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Derpetologist, you may have to add CBC to your daily trawl.

    Minority groups are seeing one of their greatest fears come true — they're becoming targets at home

    Minorities, by nature, are sensitive about being exploited, standing out or being excluded. For years, they've endured thinly veiled phobic rants, masked under diatribes about the war on drugs and the war on terrorism. More recently, they've grappled with xenophobic urgings from political leaders: Trump threatening to build a wall, deport Muslims, bring back stop-and-frisk (which usually targets blacks) and so forth. Here in Canada, Conservative leadership contender Kellie Leitch captured headlines by stoking fears about improper screening of immigrants.
    Now, these groups of people are watching their greatest fear come actually true: they're becoming targets — on buses, university campuses, in banks and in their homes, unlike they've experienced in a generation. Over the past several weeks alone, a woman was verbally accosted in a Toronto bank by a man making racist taunts. The bank did little to help her. A man carrying a noose threatened women wearing hijabs at an Edmonton LRT station. Swastikas were spray-painted on synagogues in Ottawa, and racist tags were spotted in an alleyway in Regina, upsetting local residents.
  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Basically, Canada is thiiiiiiis close to the Great Minority Purge. Good thing we have PM Zoolander bravely standing in the way, but can he resist the Putin's hacking hordes if they turn this way?

  • Derpetologist||

    "Derpetologist, you may have to add CBC to your daily trawl."

    The list is long, but there's room for one more.

    fox
    cnn
    jihadwatch
    salon
    slate
    alternet
    everyday feminism
    heat street
    college fix
    campus reform
    daily beast
    huff po
    vox

  • Pan Zagloba "The Stickler"||

    Yeah, you need more exposure to world-wide stupid. CBC is a good compromise, because, much like Canada, it's kinda American but kinda not.

  • Lee Genes||

    I consider EF to be the gold standard in derp.

  • Lachowsky||

    You and EF have changed my life Derp. I didn't think the level of absolute bat shittery on display at EF was possible. You have shown me otherwise. I posted the story about geezer neutral pronouns at abortion clinics on my face book yesterday. The overwhelming reaction was, WHAT?!?. This isn't parody? ?!? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

  • Derpetologist||

    Beware. Once you start down the derp path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

  • Derpetologist||

  • Mr. Paulbotto||

    SF'd

  • Derpetologist||

  • Rhywun||

    they're becoming targets [...] unlike they've experienced in a generation

    Sure they are.

  • GILMORE™||

    Because of last year's terror attacks, France starts to let (some) people carry guns.

    Vice News reports on this, characterizing it as an (obviously) bad thing.

    The Interior Ministry says it will create a new enhanced security status, which will let more private security guards carry arms. But more guns on the street won't fix deeper failings within French intelligence agencies.

    I don't know why people seem to think "intelligence" is any more a solution to terror than "police" are to crime. Both are mostly there to explain "what happened" after the shit has already happened. Both have an incredibly-shitty track record of preventing shit that might happen - much less actually knowing about stuff in advance.

    The rare exceptions where terror-plots were stopped in advance were almost all the consequence of

    #1 - dumb-luck "stumbling on the plotters"....usually by very-low-level enforcement personnel - not Jack Bauer

    #2 the incompetence of the plotters themselves, or

    #3 someone within the organizations actually *warn authorities in advance*

    e.g. of #1 the most notable being the Millenial Bomb plot, which if i recall was caught by a border patrol guard?

    *footnote = if anyone can name the rifle the french cop is carrying, you win a cookie. i thought it was a MAS 49, but the barrel looks wrong

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    It's clearly an IDK-123 BS.

  • GILMORE™||

    Ah, but the IDk-123 BS has a lefthanded inverted double recoil assembly, so no.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    I was going to write a screed on how Vice News has really fallen into the suck... but in a sense, I can't disagree with this: But more guns on the street won't fix deeper failings within French intelligence agencies.

    Well, no, letting people carry guns won't fix the deeper failings of the French Intelligence agencies, but it helps private citizens deal with the deeper failings of the French Intelligence agencies.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Vice, in general, has become insufferable.

  • DOOMco||

    they used to seem at least sort of libertarian left.

  • GILMORE™||

    Gavin McInnes founded Vice along w/ Shane Smith. Their first 5 years of the magazine could have been described as "Punk-Libertarian", which is another way of "leftish-libertarian", but just 'too-stupid' to bother with the economics stuff, and hewing to a more-common-sense "you stay out of my shit i'll stay out of your shit" and a recognition that everything government tries to do ultimately becomes some huge complex scheme to rip people off and benefit cronies.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    The episode where they chased down El Chingon was pretty sweet.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    They've got it backward. Better intelligence will paper over the problems with hobbling individual self-defense, but the returns are diminishing and require ever more sacrifice of personal freedom.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    *footnote = if anyone can name the rifle the french cop is carrying, you win a cookie. i thought it was a MAS 49, but the barrel looks wrong

    A Citroen. Everyone in France has a Citroen.

  • GILMORE™||

    *actually the most interesting thing about the video is the exchange between the Vice News reporter-person, and the French version of Peter King (R-long island)....

    ....Where the French guy is like, "we need to get seriously tough and shit on these ragheads - but, you know, not *Bush* tough, like the actual Gitmo-thing... but sort of more like "Battle of Algiers" tough, "Papillon" tough. Its a subtle distinction where we maintain our ability to morally sneer at Les Americains, but actually do shit that would make Cheney blush"...

    ...and where the Vice News girl is all confused, wanting to give Mssr Frog-Pol the benefit of the doubt that he's actually saying something interesting and sophisticated, but clearly having some cognitive dissonance over "what does any of this actually mean? Gosh i really hope *france* isn't getting all right-wingy...."

    I also think there's a powerful subtext running through it where the french guy is really thinking, "ah, silly american girl, i am going to seduce you later and then charge lots of things to your hotel room service"

  • The Fusionist||

    "And if I can't do that, can I at least tell my wife I did?"

  • DOOMco||

    #4 they start it themselves

  • GILMORE™||

    I thought about that and decided it was an entirely different category. but yes.

  • DOOMco||

    yea, i can see how it could be an entirety separate category.

  • You ARE a Prog (MJG)||

    SACREBLEU

  • dantheserene||

    You forgot the most important way plotters in the US are caught in advance, which is when the FBI created and ran the organization through paid informants and plants.

  • westernsloper||

    footnote = if anyone can name the rifle the french cop is carrying, you win a cookie. i thought it was a MAS 49, but the barrel looks wrong

    No I have no idea, but even if I did, I would not take a cookie from anyone who comments here.

  • GILMORE™||

    your loss nom nom nom so buttery

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Is the California tech community nothing more than retardation reinforcing retardation? Dumb apps commanding bountiless attention from dumb users for dumb purposes, snapped up by dumb investors expecting returns, hiring dumb coders to give the dumb masses dumb content, eventually displaced by new dumb apps?

    Why is all this shit centralized in one of the dumbest markets for corporate real estate, except that it attracts dumb venture capitalists and dumb young coders, and a lot of its user base is bound to be dumb attention whores?

  • Mr Lizard||

    Vertical Intederptation?

  • GILMORE™||

    That's a pretty good analysis of the "Twitter" phenomenon.

    There's little/no conceptualization of what it means as a *business*. Its basically "make cute app - get users - profit", and its all abetted by investors.

    things like Paypal, Ebay, Google search,.... they created actual vital services and have a clearly defined revenue-model. Facebook.... well, less so.... Pinterest/Twitter/ etc. ... its quickly becoming just so much hopes and prayers that investors will keep snapping the shit up because there's no place else to go.

    which is why i think lots of smart money (slow money) on wall st has been quietly exiting tech for the last few years and passing the risk onto the retail side. Or at least hedging their positions heavily.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    While we're on the subject, what's up with the Hololens? I hadn't heard of it till last night, and this supposedly groundbreaking tech has been around for a year already. But MS spent 2.5bil for Minecraft to showcase it? WTF is going on?

  • GILMORE™||

    Coke paid 4.5 billion for Vitamin Water.

    Companies often buy shit at ridiculous overpriced valuations mainly to prevent other people from having it. Its not that they know wtf to do with it to commercialize it...its just that they're terrified that someone else *does*.

    Hologram porn tho. Serious, i'm going to put a business plan together and shop this around.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    This is why I'm a poor slob and not a billionaire. I mean, this and loads of other reasons. But mostly because I have to talk myself into buying things I need, let alone really expensive things that other people might be able to make use of.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    "I took quarter water and sold in bottles for two bucks
    Coca-Cola came and bought it for billions, what the fuck?"

  • Lee Genes||

    You obviously haven't read my tweets on this subject.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    The thing is, I use twitter. I hate it, but I enjoy the odd palling around with, you know, important people that I very occasionally get to enjoy. Ace had a thing recently explaining that twitter's business model is selling shlubs like me on celebrity access. Fine, I get it, we're being exploited. But the ads they run are instantly ignorable. How exactly are they monetizing the dumb masses of idiot users?

  • Sevo||

    In the late 20th century, SF was covered with .com-X, each one with tons of money, and the company I worked for at the time put 'em on the floor at Comdex with *STYLE*. Expensive *STYLE*!
    But it quickly became obvious that one of the qualifying questions dealt with 'How are you monetizing your app?'; i.e., do you have any idea what's going to generate any income, let alone profit?
    We made money, but many of those accounts were strictly cash; we shipped after we got paid. Twitter would qualify.

  • westernsloper||

    The only app I occasionally use, is "Gas Buddy" which is kind of pointless because we have 4 gas stations here. But two cents is two cents.

  • Sevo||

    This might even be true, but I'm not sure it should be rewarded even so:

    "SF yoga instructor's life savings stolen from home safe"
    [...]
    "When Janet Stone lost half her life savings in the 2001 stock market crash and again in the national economic meltdown of 2008, she had enough with the banks and other financial institutions.
    The 48-year-old San Francisco single mother and yoga instructor withdrew what was left of the nest egg she'd been stashing away in a bank since she was in her 20s, invested in a home safe and hid the key somewhere she thought no one would ever find.
    But in a shocking twist, Stone went bust for a third time."
    http://www.sfgate.com/crime/ar.....811598.php

    You lose money in a market drop by selling low or margin calls.
    And then she rents her place through AirBnB.
    And she keeps more than 6 figures cash in a keyed safe?
    She's looking for contributions...

  • westernsloper||

    *cough, bull, cough, shit, cough cough*

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    "We don't have a lot of cushion for later or if my kids get sick or if I get sick, so that's really what that (money) was for."

    Yep. Bullshit. There's this cool new product I'd like to tell her about.

    Also, life savings? Is that what SFGate calls an inheritance?

  • straffinrun||

    The Fed can do that without even breaking the safe.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Id let her cock my arrow.

    People are retarded, so anything is possible.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Ha. Also, duh doy.

  • commodious lies and cheats||

    Single mother... instructing yoga... at 48... living in San Francisco.

    And you say she invested unwisely.

    Shocked, I am.

  • ||

    Not comparison by scale, but in dumb, yes. One time I got really drunk and I hid a couple thousand dollars in cash somewhere where I knew no one would ever find it but me. All I know for sure, is that my secret hiding place was in the basement. I have no idea why I was hiding it, but at that moment it seemed like pure genius. I never found it, lol.

  • Playa Manhattan.||

    I have it. Thanks.

  • Sevo||

    She isn't on my year-end paga list.
    You are, Reason, but after this year, at a much reduced rate. Why should I give you money when Welsh's nephew handles the IT work?
    IJ ROCKS!

  • GILMORE™||

    GUYS OMG THE BAND IS BREAKING UP!?!? WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME

    -G.L.O.S.S. - America's only* all-transgender harcore band calls it quits after 2 EPs

    *that we know of

  • The Fusionist||

    What do you call K.I.S.S.?

  • GILMORE™||

    you're out of your element, eddie.

  • The Fusionist||

    You want hardcore? You got it.

  • Pompeius the Quant Retard||

    Knights In Satan's Service /small town rumour propagation

  • Lachowsky||

    David Bowie.

    "She's not sure if you're a boy or a girl"

  • westernsloper||

    the only thing growing at this point is the cult of personality surrounding us, which feels unhealthy.

    Too bad President Obama and the First Lady did not feel the same way.

    I listened to a song, and just have to say.....seriously?

  • GILMORE™||

    re: where is rap going lately? (*questions no one asked)

    Ok this is a lot better than mumble rap

  • The Fusionist||

  • GILMORE™||

    Noted = the MC there? was one of the stars of Hamilton

  • Derpetologist||

    also better than mumble rap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVW5rjA5O7U

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Reminds of of Tech N9ne, but if Tech didn't take himself so seriously.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *me

  • GILMORE™||

    its got juke, acid house, miami bass, and baltimore club all going on simultaneously w/ the beats, but not in any cliche way, which is pretty impressive. its fresh hiphop in the way it just straight up steals whole chops from older genre music, but then flips them and makes them work as something else.

    all that matters to me primarily re: the rhymes is that 1) I can tell what the fuck he's saying and 2) the voice sounds good. The creepy/violent/torture/sex theme is cute but the lyrical content doesn't matter to me much as long as its not talking about money and brands of clothing.

    he did another EP which is some sci-fi themed thing. Im not feeling that as much as the nasty one.

  • westernsloper||

    That kind of gave me a headache. Maybe like one of those seizure tweets I have been hearing about. Dude could sell cattle though.

  • westernsloper||

  • The Fusionist||

    That's awesome, just be careful not to get to excited you wave your hands in the air...who knows what you'd end up buying.

  • The Fusionist||

    That's awesome, just be careful not to get to excited you wave your hands in the air...who knows what you'd end up buying.

  • Derpetologist||

  • GILMORE™||

    Parodycore

  • The Fusionist||

    OK, get ready for pure, raw, unadulterated, hardcore, kick-ass, headbanging, uber-super-punk rock.

    prepare yourself

  • lap83||

    I was hoping for Handel or something. Rude.

  • The Fusionist||

  • lap83||

    that's kind of cool

  • lap83||

    that is not

  • The Fusionist||

  • The Fusionist||

  • straffinrun||

    That's the same as accepting 300!

    A Japanese program aimed at accepting a small number of refugees from war-torn Syria promised Wednesday to remove language from documents which implied that pregnant women are not welcome to apply. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe announced in May that immigration-shy Japan, with a population of about 127 million, would accept up to 150 Syrian students over five years from 2017.
  • The Fusionist||

    If they're not pregnant when they get to Japan, how are they going to get pregnant afterwards? How many Japanese remember the details?

  • Derpetologist||

    Was it putting the clothes on the lower peg?

  • straffinrun||

    Explain yourself!

  • Derpetologist||

  • straffinrun||

    I performed some unholy acts to the movie when I was a kid.

  • westernsloper||

    They might get knocked up due to cyber proximity by being in the same country the videos HM watches, links to (and whatever) are made in.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    That can happen?

    No wonder Muslims get so pissed off about a Youtube video.

  • westernsloper||

    I like your other links, but I am not watching that!

  • Sevo||

    "Prime Minister Shinzo Abe announced in May that immigration-shy Japan, with a population of about 127 million, would accept up to 150 Syrian students over five years from 2017."

    Strange.
    Japan NEEDS young working people to pay all the promised benes, and yet the xenophobia seems strong enough to cut off the nose to spite the face.

  • Derpetologist||

  • The Fusionist||

  • ||

    I had that song on some Bubblegum music album. I'm thinking I was maybe 10.

  • The Fusionist||

    You didn't give me a chance to Friedrich-roll you?

  • Derpetologist||

  • ||

    Faeries wear boots is the best song from that album. Paranoid might be the worst.

  • Derpetologist||

    De gustibus non disputandam.

  • straffinrun||

  • The Fusionist||

  • Derpetologist||

  • The Fusionist||

    Thank you, but the first one is what millions of faithful listen to each year, what's offbeat about it? Awesome, yes.

  • The Fusionist||

    (not necessarily a specific composer's arrangement)

  • The Fusionist||

  • PapayaSF||

    Your feel-good story of the day: David and Barbara Mikkelson (who started Snopes) get divorced. There are charges of misused money, prostitutes, and excessive salary demands. David marries their employee Elyssa Young, current escort and former porn star under the name "Erin O'Bryn."

    More links and snark. The word "cuck" appears multiple times.

  • The Fusionist||

    "Snopes.com founder David Mikkelson's new wife Elyssa Young is employed by the website as an administrator"

    And I suppose this part was inevitable:

    "She has worked as an escort and porn actress and despite claims website is non-political ran as a Libertarian for Congress on a 'Dump Bush' platform"

  • ||

    You just caused me to click on a Reddit link. You are a terrible person.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    She is an escort?

    Where my Ashley Dupre gone?

  • westernsloper||

    Further court documents showed some of the details of the couple's personal wealth. They included: a $205,000 home in Las Vegas; a $1,525,000 home in Calabasas, Los Angeles; two savings accounts with $3,064,993; a cash account with $81,785 and a stock account with $47,588; IRAs valued at $455,101; and a baseball card collection which was not valued.

    I am so in the wrong line of work.

  • The Fusionist||

    They won't have all that money for very long.

    They could have kept the money longer if they'd had a hooker-free fact-checking site.

  • westernsloper||

    The realization a couple of people can accrue that much money for selling bullshit, and be quoted as a reputable source for pretty much nothing is what I am talking about. I could care less if the dude wants to bang his ex-hooker employee. Makes no difference to me. I respect her more for being an escort than for working for Snopes.

  • PapayaSF||

    In the early days of the web, many people made big bucks with relatively small websites. (In the sense of a few people, not backed by corporations or venture capital.) I know of at least four, personally. I was not one of them, alas.

  • GILMORE™||

    (skips reading anything, goes straight to finding out about the pornstar's past work)

  • ||

  • straffinrun||

    Towns and the two policemen charged in his death were black.

    Isn't that something. BTW, I think they're all still black.

  • Derpetologist||

  • ||

    Man, it's too late for all this metal. Do you have some Mel Torme or something? I have to work tomorrow, for the last time until next year.

  • The Fusionist||

  • straffinrun||

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Are you trying to get him pregnant?

  • straffinrun||

  • Derpetologist||

    This song is pretty relaxing:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hwELsSesvE

  • ||

    Not sure why I didn't just think of this, since the album was just mentioned.

    Planet Caravan

  • The Fusionist||

  • Derpetologist||

    Huh. A lot of Mary Poppins songs work well as thrash metal.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU2hy0L5lgg

  • Derpetologist||

    Cool. There are death metal versions of Enya songs.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6U4awS66lI

  • Sevo||

  • The Fusionist||

  • Sevo||

    Lefty head explosions registering 7.5 on the Richter scale, tsunamis expected in Malibu!:

    "Carl Icahn named a special adviser in the Trump administration"
    [...]
    "Icahn will be a special adviser to the president-elect overseeing regulation specifically, according to the transition.
    The investor has long been a critic of various government regulatory agencies, most notably the Environmental Protection Agency."
    http://www.sfgate.com/technolo.....811969.php

    I didn't vote for the guy, but he's looking like about as good as we could hope for.
    And, no, SIV, pimping for him when he was looking like some blow-hard populist doesn't make you any smarter than you were or are.

    Repost from above, 'cause skwirrlze again:
    You are [getting some dough], Reason, but after this year, at a much reduced rate. Why should I give you money when Welsh's nephew handles the IT work?

  • The Fusionist||

    You can tell he's from the USA because his name is "I can."

  • Sevo||

    By this time, they pretty much couldn't stand each other, but Knopfler and Atkins got 'em to do wonders:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkFcQRiFL68

  • Agile Cyborg||

    Gary Johnson does goddamn jesus turds for a state.

  • Agile Cyborg||

    my fucking fingers are so goddam cold I just want to blow up a hershey factory to get all coated in brown nazi juice and get slickety lappety
    fucking get warm is a fuckloaf of labor
    fuck the blow up
    stuckem into grizzly pooper

  • Agile Cyborg||

    my arms feel like metal in a world of goddamn screamers
    my neck feels like a fucking tunnel of oxygen in a world of walkers and jukers
    my legs feel like a swerving vehicle mounted by 12 eagles travelling on invisible
    highways in a city loathed by all that lives.... the eagles were to be found on the top
    of a horrible morasse of mentally destructed small eagles who once served the insanity
    of a city pretending to be that and super danktwink

  • Agile Cyborg||

    if your alleys weep
    get them tugboats

    if your streets roll up like ribbons
    nothing a fucking tugboat can do

  • Agile Cyborg||

    the neck of the darkness attaches its pyramids to my fucking lengthy temples built on the softened palls of thrice
    teams and gods
    cannot fucking post commans to that fucking fame
    come home , dan and let this fuckd up insanie

  • Agile Cyborg||

    if the lip of the world exists on shimmer
    so like when all the letters pringle off a cart
    stopped in the supermarkey from a fucking
    bo

    so the sratch drumme

  • Agile Cyborg||

    the lines swim thick]
    and my buttons fall forever
    but even tea doesn't need angels

  • Agile Cyborg||

    the lines swim thick]
    and my buttons fall forever
    but even tea doesn't need angels

  • Agile Cyborg||

    the lines swim thick]
    and my buttons fall forever
    but even tea doesn't need angels

  • Agile Cyborg||

    the lines swim thick]
    and my buttons fall forever
    but even tea doesn't need angels

  • Agile Cyborg||

    your fucking moon eats hearts bitch
    when the goddam fountains of your nervous
    rainbows shirk their horizons and the twisted
    versions of happenstance suns you grew accustomed
    to loving traded their fucking light for a small spaceship
    and a very fucking long ride into the goddamn black
    slate of the goddamn out there.

    praise god for your fucking deal to get somewhere,
    super jesus boy

  • Agile Cyborg||

    peace out old earthen volcano jim harrison and may the gods
    trick their crystal vessels with pourings of goddamn upper case C followed by cope
    i think the pressures of letters result in new nudity for my fucking warmness filling
    the homeliness of long craft of a very lonely fucking place
    just because you are scared at the top of the portal
    can you fucking stop massacring the downtown
    place

  • cavalier973||

  • The Fusionist||

  • The Fusionist||

    The fun part is, the RINOs were all ready to sell out but the Dems didn't think they'd sold out *enough.* How humiliating.

  • IceTrey||

    If the cops were outside their jurisdiction doesn't that nullify the DUI?

  • Michael Price||

    "taking a car that was not actually in their city limits at the time, though the police involved previously insisted it was."
    How hard is it to determine if you're within city limits? Surely the cops have the skills to know where they are and where the border is. How are they not fired for incompetence at least?

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