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Hillary Knows Something Most Democrats Can’t Admit

Debate performance illustrates that civil liberties and executive-power abuse matter mostly when Republicans run the White House

Smart power at its best. ||| CNNCNNHillary Clinton is nothing if not responsive to the changing winds of Democratic Party opinion. As CNN's Anderson Cooper succinctly put it to her in the very first question of last week's Democratic presidential debate, "You were against same-sex marriage. Now you're for it. You defended President Obama's immigration policies. Now you say they're too harsh. You supported his trade deal dozen of times. You even called it the ‘gold standard.’ Now, suddenly, last week, you're against it." (It's worth noting that she promptly lied about the latter flip-flop.)

On guns, on responding rhetorically to the phrase "black lives matter," and especially on economic policy, Clinton is responding to the contemporary passions of the Democratic grassroots by tacking leftward. So it's illustrative for both the candidate and the party to observe which issues the Democratic frontrunner does not feel evident pressure to "absorb new information" about.

Chief among them is a critique that dominated lefty discourse in 2007-08, and then almost immediately vanished as a hot topic: the imperial presidency. Democrats in the late Bush/Cheney era were apoplectic about the White House's rogue warmaking; now their standard-bearer is characterizing as "smart power at its best" that time when the Obama administration acted in persistent, blatant defiance of Congress by bombing Muammar Gadhafi out of power:

Well, let's remember what was going on. We had a murderous dictator, Gadhafi, who had American blood on his hands, as I'm sure you remember, threatening to massacre large numbers of the Libyan people. We had our closest allies in Europe burning up the phone lines begging us to help them try to prevent what they saw as a mass genocide, in their words. And we had the Arabs standing by our side saying, "We want you to help us deal with Gadhafi."

Our response, which I think was smart power at its best, is that the United States will not lead this; we will provide essential, unique capabilities that we have, but the Europeans and the Arabs had to be first over the line. We did not put one single American soldier on the ground in Libya. [...]

I think President Obama made the right decision at the time. And the Libyan people had a free election the first time since 1951. And you know what, they voted for moderates, they voted with the hope of democracy. Because of the Arab Spring, because of a lot of other things, there was turmoil to be followed.

But unless you believe the United States should not send diplomats to any place that is dangerous, which I do not, then when we send them forth, there is always the potential for danger and risk.

Didn't quite get the eye-twitch right. ||| NBCNBCThis plate of hot rhetorical garbage was quickly disposed of by Jim Webb, whose lack of purchase in the Democratic race—despite his long record of opposing the imperial presidency—is another indication of how this issue just doesn't have juice in 2015. Webb's economical response:

We had no treaties at risk. We had no Americans at risk. There was no threat of attack or imminent attack.

There is plenty of time for a president to come to the Congress and request authority to use military force in that situation. I called for it on the Senate floor again and again. I called for it in Senate hearings.

It is not a wise thing to do. And if people think it was a wise thing to do, try to get to the Tripoli airport today. You can't do it.

Clinton's equally cavalier (and inaccurate) treatment of Edward Snowden ("He could have been a whistleblower, he could have gotten all the protections of being a whistleblower"), and defense of her vote to support the Patriot Act ("I think that it was necessary to make sure that we were able after 9/11 to put in place the security that we needed....We always have to keep the balance of civil liberties, privacy and security") make the case plain: If there remains any anti-war, pro-civil liberties sentiment among Democratic voters, it is not being reflected in their choice for president.

Even more telling, that frontrunner is not feeling any observable political pressure to even feint toward a civil-libertarian direction. Which is an indictment not just of Hillary Clinton, but of the partisan opportunism underlying too much left-of-center activism. If Obama's grotesque flip-flops on executive power and war-making didn't cost him the love of his base, after all, why should Clinton even pretend to care in the first place?

Related:

* Admit it, Dems: Hillary Could Strangle a Puppy on Live TV, and You'd Still Back Her

* Is GOP Foreign Policy Getting More Libertarian, or Is it Just Anti-Democrat Opportunism?

* Executive Branch 'Dictatorship'

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  • ||

    If there remains any anti-war, pro-civil liberties sentiment among Democratic voters, it is not being reflected in their choice for president.

    Nope. All they want is paid family leave now.

  • Citizen X||

    And cake.

  • Paul.||

    Well we're all outta cake!

  • HeirToLiberty||

    Well, I'll have the chicken, then.

  • MSimon||

    A heifer in every pot.

  • Mindyourbusiness||

    She's running for President.

  • Hugh Akston||

    And their student loans wiped away.

  • ||

    I'm channeling a lot of my former anti-student-loan-forgiveness rage into anti-paid-family-leave rage. jesse will be leading the student loan forgiveness murder spree protest rallies; I will head up the paid family leave movement.

  • ||

    I'm gonna have so many more kids and have so much time off. Enjoy paying for it. DUMBASS.

  • SugarFree||

    He shall birth them from his many thighs.

  • Agammamon||

    Warty, the black goat of the woods with a thousand young.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Man, you guys already called the good ones. What the fuck am I supposed to get all worked up about?

  • ||

    Well since jesse wouldn't join me I still need a No. 1...

  • Hugh Akston||

    You don't need to ask me twice to be your Riker. ::swings leg over back of chair::

  • ||

    ::swoons::

  • SugarFree||

  • Agammamon||

    Is that pic from the time they went into the holodeck to play 'Brady Bunch'?

  • Agammamon||

    You'll need to grow a beard - he likes those.

  • Lee G||

    Cakes?

  • ||

    I'd like to formally invite anyone with a masters or doctorate in comparative underwater basket weaving to come on down to a beach party at the MB Pier. There'll be complimentary burlap sacks and heavy objects for each of you!

  • ||

    Crafting party at jesse's!!!

  • Matt Welch||

    You know what? If you actually learned how to weave baskets underwater, you could make a MINT.

  • SugarFree||

    comparative underwater basket weaving

    What gave you the idea they were learning a practical trade?

    "I Wove My Master's House: Systems of Colonial Oppression in Aquatic Basket Production"

  • ||

    I'm torn on this. It'd be kind of amazing to have someone actually make money on the quintessential fake, useless major, but then I'd have to find a NEW fake, useless major to make fun of.

  • Lee G||

    Something something.... Studies

  • SugarFree||

    Post-Colonial Puppetry
    Social Media Studies
    Philosophy

  • ||

    Philosophy

    I was thinking it, but didn't want to say it. Thank you for being my Id, SF.

  • Hugh Akston||

    You can both lick my Kant.

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    I'm a Freud to do that, Hugh.

  • SugarFree||

    It's what I do for people, jesse.

  • R C Dean||

    Hey, I've got a Philosophy degree!

    Oh, wait . . . .

  • Zeb||

    Oh, sure. And librarians/archivists are really useful. The world would just come tumbling down if some fat dude in Kentucky didn't know where all the old photographs that no one cares about are.

    I also have a philosophy degree. If you aren't a useless person to begin with, it's a fine thing to study. Or maybe it is useless. At least it keeps me out of trouble.

  • Agammamon||

    If you're useless it won't make you *not* useless.

    And if you're useful, it won't make you *more* useful.

    So, if you've got the time and money to burn - *then* its fine thing to study.

  • Zeb||

    I actually think that studying philosophy helped quite a bit with the ability to write with precision and to think critically and make distinctions.

  • Agammamon||

    It *can* - but look at all the different 'schools' of philosophy. Its hard to look at that and say that philosophy is better at doing that than, say, astrophysics.

  • Tony||

    Philosophy majors routinely score at the top of lists ranking various measures of intelligence. In my humble opinion it has great utility inasmuch as your career requires critical thinking skills. Of course a good education is its own reward.

  • Agammamon||

    Intelligence =/= critical thinking skills. I can point to any number of people like Paul Krugman who have high intelligence but are poor at critical thinking.

    Or anyone who thinks a centrally planned economy will have better outcomes than a free-market *cough*.

    It just means that when you get hung up on a world-view that is at odds with reality you can do a whole lot of damage.

    And if I wanted to be mean (and I do), I could point out the large amount of intellectual effort that has been put into justifying various religious doctrines.

    Or the 'consensus' on global warming.

  • ||

    Intelligence =/= critical thinking skills.

    I'm not sure I buy this. It seems to me that intelligence is synonymous with "the ability to think", and the ability to think is in many ways a matter of habit. So, yes, regularly thinking big thoughts will literally make you smarter.

  • Agammamon||

    Thinking as in the ability to solve problems or memorize a vast collection of information.

    But thinking does not necessarily require to examine the axioms you incorporated when memorizing that information.

    You can be a brilliant lawyer - and still believe the WTC was brought down by the US government in a false flag operation.

    You can work directly collecting and analyzing data on climate change and still believe that man-made causes are a primary driver.

    You can be president of a major capitalist corporation and still believe that socialism has better overall outcomes than the free market.

    So, maybe a better phrasing is 'intelligence does not equate with the *consistent use* of critical thinking skills'.

  • AFSlade||

    This is where I recently heard a very smart man refer to the difference between "intelligence/IQ" and "emotional IQ." Intelligence is knowing that your eating habits are responsible for your obesity & diabetes; or that your smoking is the reason you're coughing, stuffed up, and out of breath all the time. Emotional intelligence is taking that on and making changes in your life to help both of those things.

    I'd call it the ability to overcome cognitive dissonance. Or maybe the inability to live with cognitive dissonance.

    And this is why I hate Progressives. They consider themselves so fucking smart - and some even are "intelligent" - yet they're incapable of considering an opposing view, even when confronted with overwhelming evidence of, say, the massive failures of socialism and the attendant horrors and loss of life in the 20th century.

    THAT'S the part that makes you want to violate the NAP and just start cappin' mofos.

  • ||

    How much do you even think, Bro?

  • Tony||

    It's always a laugh when someone defines intelligence as believing in his pet list of absolute bullshit.

  • Agammamon||

    Your house doesn't have any mirrors, does it?

  • SugarFree||

    Gay sockpuppets are not vampires, Aggy.

  • Tony||

    There are very intelligent people who believe in bullshit. Intelligent people can compartmentalize, especially if they lack a foundation in critical thinking.

  • Agammamon||

    Which goes right back to where I said that intelligence =/= critical thinking skills. FFS.

  • ||

    Tony|10.19.15 @ 12:51PM|#

    It's always a laugh when someone defines intelligence as believing in his pet list of absolute bullshit.

    That's very rich since you have claimed to have studied Philosophy here in the past and above make the claim "Philosophy majors routinely score at the top of lists ranking various measures of intelligence. Now you lambaste those who do exactly as you do.

    For your sake I hope that making a living as a lawyer isn't in your future plans.

  • SugarFree||

    Damn, Zeb. Chill out. I have a Philosophy Minor.

  • Zeb||

    Sorry, was that too pointed? Only intended to be some good natured ribbing.

  • Zeb||

    Some of my best friends are librarians.

  • SugarFree||

    Some of my best friends are librarians.

    Hey!

  • Agammamon||

    Gender Studies.

    African American Studies.

    Political Science.

    Art.

    Art *History*.

  • ||

    Is this becoming another STEM DGRE OR UR A FAGGOT session?

  • ||

    UR STEM DGRE MADE YINZ WHAT U R TODAY.

  • Agammamon||

    You either get a Stem degree and work in your field or you don't and don't.

  • ||

    I got a STEM degree, then a STEM doctorate, and I still don't work in my field.

  • Krokko||

    +1 here

  • Zeb||

    Or become an academic.

  • DenverJ||

    I studied poli Sci. Very useful when you are putting up/ repairing buildings.

  • ||

    My b-i-l got a philosophy degree. He ended up as a phlebotomist. When people asked him why he ended up that way, he blandly answered, "The year I graduated, US Philosophy Corporation wasn't hiring."

  • JW||

    Honestly, unless you're going into a hard science or post-doc program, what you major in college really doesn't matter.

    Employers only care that you *have* a degree. They usually don't care in what, though they might make fun of it.

  • ||

    What's yours in? I want to make fun of it.

  • JW||

    Marine Biology.

  • ||

    HAH! Fish any golf balls out of whale blowholes?

  • JW||

    "The sea was angry that day, like old man trying to return soup at a deli."

  • ||

    Art *History*

    Art History is a weirdly rigorous education in the history of philosophy, technology and politics. I don't know that it has much of a direct practical application, but it has a solid home in a well-rounded classical education.

    That said, I don't know that I'd MAJOR in it. (I majored in history, so it's not like I can judge anyone else).

  • SugarFree||

    I majored in Creative Writing. And a paid off my student loans. The useless can find a path in this world.

  • Number.6||

    Dear God, so there is hope for my daughter too.

    Question though - will she have to run a blog like yours to make a living?

  • SugarFree||

    I only run that as a public service. I make no money from it at all.

  • Number.6||

    OK, so she'll have to take the Belle Knox route then.

    Bummer.

  • JW||

    PIX PLS KAITHXBAI

  • Number.6||

    Just what I'd expect from someone who's interested in the biology of Marines.

  • ||

    Mmmmm Marines.

  • Los Doyers||

    The few, the hung?

  • ||

    The few, the hung?

    Needs moar data points.

    *Sets up sex tent near Pendleton*

  • Number.6||

    Conjures mash-up images of American Horror Story and The Abominable Dr. Phibes.

  • ||

    "into anti-paid-family-leave rage"

    War on Children !

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    And no guns anywhere.

  • Paul.||

    Let's not get ahead of ourselves... there'll be plenty of guns held by Hillary's domestic occupation army.

  • Almanian's Rusty Woodchipper||

    THAT'S DIFFERENT!

  • Jerryskids||

    All they want is everybody to be above average. Is that so bad?

  • Paul.||

    That's not so bad. Wait until they want everyone above median.

  • ||

    You mean the median isn't average? That's not normal!

  • MarkLastname||

    Well, even to get almost everyone above the mean, a select few will have to be very very far below it. Any volunteers?

  • Jordan||

    As long as the government boot stomps on the evil 1%ers, Democratic voters don't care what else it does.

  • edchipper||

    Letter to the editor in the Oregonian today celebrating the sudden sell-off in Walmart stock on Friday. "What will the 1%-ers do?" it said. Never mind that the sell-off affects thousands if not million of middle class 401(k) holders and retail investors and never mind that the overall effect of a declining stock price ultimately affects Walmart's operations. The economic ignorance is appalling (but not surprising).

  • Matt Welch||

    ... or that the sell-off was attributed to worries over WalMart paying too much in wage increases.

  • Paul.||

    In addition to shrinking sales because we're smack dab in the middle of recovery summer.

  • ||

    Winter is coming?

  • Zeb||

    What will the 1%ers do? Sell their Walmart stock, apparently.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    Only 1%ers get involved with the stock market, silly.

  • Brandybuck||

    Yes. All my retirement investment is in Social Security futures...

  • MarkLastname||

    Those'll crash too. My retirement is in salted pork buried in secret locations throughout rural Kentucky.

  • Mickey Rat||

    They only worry about abuse of power when it is their enemies weird it, because the profs know what they themselves do with it if given the chance.

  • The Grinch||

    Just wait until she signs her first EO on guns. Teeth will be gnashed, clothes will be rended, and nobody will do a damn thing that's meaningful to oppose it.

  • Drake||

    Wait! Nick said that debate was great for libertarians.

  • Hugh Akston||

    You realize he didn't actually say anything like that, right?

  • SugarFree||

    They read what they want to read, asshole.

  • Drake||

    The DemDebate Clarified That Many Libertarian Views Have Gone Mainstream

    www.reason.com/blog/2015/10/13.....rt#comment

  • Hugh Akston||

    Right, that would be the post in which he says it's encouraging to hear mainstream politicians making civil liberties and foreign policy arguments that wouldn't be out of place in a libertarian platform, but that they were basically all trying to out-sugardaddy one another economically.

    He certainly doesn't use the term great, nor does he really imply that any of the candidates are great. In fact he explicitly says that none of them are worth voting for.

  • Paul.||

    And YOU realize that you always take Nick's side?

  • Hugh Akston||

    I don't take Nick's side so much as I try to point out easily-refuted exaggerations made by skunk-eating inbred retards who try to cast reason writers as cocktail-guzzling lefty moles.

  • Paul.||

    Sure, BTW, how's that Vodka-Cran?

  • Hugh Akston||

    Look it's a natural diuretic, okay?

  • MarkLastname||

    What is it your period?

  • DesigNate||

    You haven't lived till you've eaten skunk and fucked your sister.

  • MarkLastname||

    I thought it was the other other way around? Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    So it's illustrative for both the candidate and the party to observe which issues the Democratic frontrunner does not feel evident pressure to "absorb new information" about.

    Her policies are crafted by pollsters. If you want her to re-evaluate Edward Snowden's value as a whistleblower, get on one of her handlers' focus groups.

  • Eric Bana||

    the partisan opportunism underlying too much left-of-center activism.

    GO TEAM GO!!! That's politics.

  • Paul.||

    Fifteen years later, we understand how Bill Clinton handily won two terms.

  • Drake||

    Shit - FDR won four - while in the depths of a terrible economic depression he created.

  • Agammamon||

    How do you think Castro managed to hold power for 50 years?

    Its always easy to maintain power while things are shitty - you can always point to an enemy (inside, outside, above, or below) and blame them for the problems even if its blatantly obvious you created them.

    Its when things start to get *better* that your arse will be out in the street - The People will stop thinking they *need* you.

  • The Grinch||

    I see you've read your Orwell.

  • Agammamon||

    I have - but that's not the influence here.

    Just the observation that most revolution happen when people get a taste of good life and decide that pursuing that is better than stewing in bile.

  • MarkLastname||

    Actually it seems to me to happen often when they're doing alright but they're neighbors are doing better. France doesn't mind being poor as much as it minds being less rich than England.

  • The Last American Hero||

    -1 George Bush Senior

  • onebornfree||

    They [presidential candidates] are all scam artists, no differently from all previous presidents, regardless of party affiliation. :-) .

    But so what?

    I don't care which scam artist finally gets elected, or which doesn't, nor what the Fed does/does not do, nor whether, according to Mr "investment advisor with a near perfect prediction record" [insert name of choice] , we are supposedly in for recession, depression, deflation, hyper inflation, a stock market boom, or whatever .

    Why? Because whatever happens, my entirely self-managed, fully diversified, once per year adjusted long term savings plan will be safely protected and will , 9 times out of 10, grow at an average of 8% per annum over and above the prevailing inflation [or deflation], rate, year in, year out, as it has since 1986 when I started using it.

    For a link to the plans results 1972-2011, email: onebornfreeatyahoodotcom ,
    with "Savings Plan Results" in the subject line

    Regards,onebornfree
    Financial Safety Services

  • Animal||

    Fuck off, spammer.

  • Agammamon||

    This is actually scary good spam. Evolution in action.

  • Citizen X||

    Oh hell yes, Pirate Truther is back!

    SIXTEEN MEN ON A DEAD MAN'S CHEST
    YO HO HO AND JET FUEL CAN'T MELT STEEL BEAMS

  • Aloysious||

    Pirate Truther is my hero.

    I'm going to talk like a pirate for the rest of the day.

  • ||

    You should give him some money to invest for you and then get back to us with the results.

  • Citizen X||

    YAR, THAR BE A FINE RETURN ON TINFOIL HATS TA PROTECT AGAINST THE CHEMTRAILS

  • Ceci n'est pas un woodchipper||

    I think it's not that voters are stupid, per se, I think it's that people get so excited about the Superbowl pageantry and the signalling and all that shit that they...

    ...no, hell, it really just is that most people are idiotic single-issue Team-centric demographic voters. Of course, when more public schools have "environmental literacy" requirements than, say, economics requirements, you tend to get people who believe the only thing standing between everyone working part-time at McDonald's making $50k a year is a few rich people and not enough laws.

  • Ceci n'est pas un woodchipper||

    Replace "between" with "stopping" and then add a "from" in there. Bare with me, I'm on pain killers.

  • Ceci n'est pas un woodchipper||

    See what I did there?

  • Agammamon||

    Misspelled 'bear' and failed to seize on the opportunity to use 'Bayer' instead?

  • Citizen X||

    Hitler?

  • DenverJ||

    You know who else was Hitler?

  • Agammamon||

    Bayer IG?

  • Citizen X||

    Volkswagen?

  • MarkLastname||

    I just assumed you were French... and therefore stupid.

  • Drake||

    “Democracy is the worship of jackals by jackasses.”
    ― H.L. Mencken

  • brady949||

    No, I think most voters are pretty stupid.

  • R C Dean||

    Needs more lions being towed.

  • Juice||

    Clinton's equally cavalier (and inaccurate) treatment of Edward Snowden ("He could have been a whistleblower, he could have gotten all the protections of being a whistleblower")

    It's not like he didn't try. Same with Manning, who tried even harder.

  • Agammamon||

    Wait? Alec Baldwin's running?

    I may have to register Democrat.

  • kinnath||

    The only thing that matters to the left is that the next president has sagging tits and a dry vagina.

  • Paul.||

    Well, Bernie is getting a surprising amount of support.

    I am officially seeing more Bernie stickers in my neck of the woods than any others.

  • Agammamon||

    And he's got at least one of those two things.

  • Brandybuck||

    Because party faithful always run to the edge and support the extremes, even while the delegates always go with the centrist. Both parties. One side runs to Bernie the other to Trump, but we'll get centrist versus centrist in the general election.

    Want to see someone poll better than Trump? Have some candidate start promising they'll nuke Iran. Want to see someone poll better than Sanders? Have some candidate start promising Soviet style communism.

  • Tony||

    Republicans are to blame for expanded executive authority in both parties. They just took it when they wanted it when they had the White House, and now that they don't and from Congress they can barely keep the government open and paying its bills, the president necessarily has had to take on more governing tasks, which is exactly what I warned would be the consequence of their childish dogmatic nonsense a long time ago.

    So in the end it really is principals over principles, because that's the choice we're left with now that we've transformed from a government based primarily on legislating to one where the president does what she can and then slowly fills the courts with judges who will allow her to do it. You've got a very libertarian Congress--it does practically nothing! So don't cry about the consequences.

  • Set Us Up The Chipper||

    BOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

  • Zeb||

    Congress doing nothing is one of the few bright spots, true.

    Did you see anyone here cheering Bush's executive power grabs? I do recall hearing some things about how Obama was going to be different. But I guess Bush must have come and forced him to keep doing things the same way.

  • sarcasmic||

    You don't understand.

    When Republicans expand executive authority it's because they are authoritarian meanies.

    When Democrats do the same thing it's because Republicans are obstructionist meanies.

    It's Republican meanies all around.

    Did I mention that Republicans are big meanies?

    If not, I'll just say it. Republicans are big meanies. Big, fat, meanie-pants meanies.

  • Tony||

    If Democrats threatened to destroy the economy if they didn't get their way on implementing a national gun ban, would you be blaming both parties for that as well?

  • sarcasmic||

    If you're walking through the forest with a canoe in your purse and the wheels fall off, how many red flags does it take to cover a dog house?

  • ||

    Three.

  • sarcasmic||

    Nope. The correct answer is five, because my mother likes chocolate and doesn't drive a Buick.

  • Animal||

    But wouldn't she really rather drive a Buick?

  • Frankjasper1||

    When was the economy destroyed due to a government shut down?

  • ConstitutionFirst||

    The Neocoms (the New Communists) have a better chance of making the sun rise in the west.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    now that they don't and from Congress they can barely keep the government open and paying its bills, the president necessarily has had to take on more governing tasks

    Ohhh, that's why we got involved in Libya.

  • Tony||

    We got involved to enforce a UN security council resolution.

  • Sevo||

    Tony|10.19.15 @ 12:31PM|#
    "We got involved to enforce a UN security council resolution."

    "We" got involved because of a lying POS who inhabits the white house.

  • ||

    And we got involved because a friend of the Sec of State ( who had info on the Sec of State's own illegal money making schemes) stood to make bank if Gaddafi was thrown out of power.

  • kbolino||

    We got involved to enforce a UN security council resolution.

    So, Iraq was totes cool, right?

  • Sevo||

    "You've got a very libertarian Congress-"

    Hey, folks, he'll be here all week!

  • MarkLastname||

    Note here the leftist denial of responsibility for its own actions: "Enemy is responsible for bad things they do and bad things we do. When we did it, we had no choice." It clearly thinks it's in its natural environment. Shhh everyone, try not to scare it, it's rare to see one behaving like in the wild in these parts. If we're lucky we'll get to watch it insert its head into its own ass.

  • ConstitutionFirst||

    Are you a paid troll, or simply unemployed and very bored?

  • Set Us Up The Chipper||

    This is just Progs Progging. Plato's Republic being the desired end State.

  • Duke||

    I really appreciate Hillary's authenticiousness. Like how she puts on a antebellum southern plantation owner accent when she's speaking in Alabama, or how she lets her Midwestern whine shine through when's she speaks up north.

  • brady949||

    I hope she takes the obligatory "foreign policy" tour to London so we can hear her cockney

    Freshen your drink guvnah? *EVIL CACKLE*

  • Tony||

    This may be calculated on her part but she did spend a long time in Arkansas. A friend of mine speaks like a normal human being until he gets on the phone with his family, then he lays on a thick West Texas that seems to occur naturally. When I was in the UK for a time, my accent didn't exactly fully adapt, but the rougher American edges went away, while at the same time an American friend didn't seem to alter her loud, brassy New York one bit despite her being there longer.

  • Frankjasper1||

    Did you forget to change your handle?

  • Frankjasper1||

    Did you forget to change your handle?

  • The Grinch||

    Reverting to a drawl in a conversation with another speaking similarly is very different from speaking that way in a speech. Her accent is a politically based affectation.

  • R C Dean||

    Ding, ding.

    My Texas twang comes back when I am in Texas for more than a day or two.

    Mrs. Dean's upper Midwest accent comes back briefly after talking to her siblings on the phone.

    Oddly, neither of us has a different accent when we give a prepared speech. Because we're not soulless automatons.

  • Tony||

    Obama's speech patterns change markedly when he's talking to a mostly black crowd.

  • Duke||

    Thats because he's a political hack Tony.

  • DenverJ||

    Yes because he is also a lying, calculating piece of shit. Also known as a "politician".

  • Tony||

    Well let's just try a term with Donald Trump at the helm and I'll check back to see if you still think that being a calculating politician was such a bad thing.

  • kbolino||

    Wait, you think Donald Trump isn't a "calculating politician"? Jesus, you get dumber every day.

  • lap83||

    Republicans are too dumb to be calculating. Hillary and Obama adopt fake accents because they're smart.

  • Duke||

    Tony, please. She hadn't spent time in Arkansas in decades. The accent is as fake a Putin as can be. She's a total phony who patronizes the dumb people who will vote for her. What's really sad about the left is that they can't put out even a semi intellectual candidate. The left's message and demagoguery has become so dumbed down it's insulting to even retards.

  • Citizen X||

    as fake a Putin as can be

    It is nice to know that the spirit of John is still with us.

  • Tony||

    What happened to John?

  • Citizen X||

    He disappeared from these boards right around the time Kim Davis went to jail. I'm not saying "John" IS Kim Davis, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Duke||

    I'm not understanding your insult. Please explain.

  • Citizen X||

    John is (was?) a pretty conservative regular here who sort of lost his mind over the whole gay marriage thing. His stock-in-trade was (is?) glorious Freudian typos.

  • MarkLastname||

    All these in-jokes are what makes the Reason commentariat seem so incestuous.

    No that's not a Freudian slip; I do fuck my sister regularly, but I'm quite open and not the least bit ashamed about it. #lovewins!

  • Duke||

    Putin = put on. iPhone.

  • brady949||

    iPutin

  • HolgerDanske||

    I, Poutine

  • Duke||

    ?

  • lap83||

    Listening to a politician give a speech is the same as having a one-on-one conversation with them. This is what progressives actually believe.

  • Tony||

    I doubt that her new-and-improved handlers sat her down and say "You know that fake accent thing you do that nobody buys? Keep doing that. It's very special."

  • geo1113||

    Correct. What they actually say is "You know that fake accent thing you do? Keep doing it. It's very special. Those goobers believe it".

  • lap83||

    *cue cackling*

  • ||

    "This may be calculated on her part "

    You think ?

    Does your attempt to excuse this also explain away her black accent when talking to black audiences ?

    I bet she's been practicing rrrrolling her Rrrrrs as well . Huh Senorrrrr Tony

  • Tony||

    Her Spanish is atrocious. She's admittedly not adept at foreign languages. If you've spent time in the South, and are married for many years to a husband who was born there and still has an accent, you might fall into an accent unconsciously. Even though I am good at language and accents and have spent my whole life ridding myself of that part of my Southern heritage, sometimes it comes back reflexively. I'll be speaking to someone from New York and realize I sound like a hick.

  • Number.6||

    Maybe their visceral response is a reaction to the content of your communication, rather than its delivery.

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony the Marxian,

    Her Spanish is atrocious.


    There is really nothing difficult about saying soy una triste puta que hace cualquier cosa por dinero, but there may be physiological or cultural issues at hand.

  • Tony||

    Well she did confirm that she is a capitalist.

  • ||

    Accepting bribes while at the head of a government agency is not the definition of capitalism Tony.

  • MarkLastname||

    Actions speak louder than words.

  • geo1113||

    Ha. I know a couple of words in Spanish among them are puta and dinero. That is all I needed to translate the sentence.

    Speaking of puta, we had a Puerto Rican kid who did his Junior English class speech on puta juice. That was over 40 years ago and we still crack up when his name is mentioned.

  • ||

    It's because what you say makes you sound like a dick not that your accent makes you sound like a hick.

    Hilliary IS atrocious Tony regardless of which fake accent she is using to condesend to her more free shit supporters.

    It's gonna be hilarious in the latter hectic days of the campaign, if she's still around, and the tired old worn out Girl Power candidate forgets where she is and uses the fake Southern accent to give a speech to northeast liberals.

  • ||

    A friend of mine

    I stopped right there. *Bullshit Detector redlined*

  • DesigNate||

    Too bad you didn't decide to stay in that social democracy utopia.

  • MichaelL||

    She did live in Little Rock for a while! I am sure she picked it up, while living there. My first wife behaved like that with people. It might be a sign of a character flaw, like my ex-wife! She was the wife that had my kids taken away, on her whim, and had her second husband adopt them. Well, I get to see them, now that they are grown. And, they will get a good inheritance. Step daddy is dead and the woman, who told me I would die a lonely man, is in a big house, all alone!

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Clinton's equally cavalier (and inaccurate) treatment of Edward Snowden ("He could have been a whistleblower, he could have gotten all the protections of being a whistleblower"),...

    You see, it's like, totally different. President Obama and Secretary Clinton would have just loved to give Snowden a fair hearing. It's just, Snowden just wouldn't cooperate. He insisted on talking about things Democrats do wrong, as well as Republicans. I mean, that's some nerve, isn't it?! Here they were perfectly okay to give him a fair hearing and how does he repay them? By being willing to talk about Democrats doing bad things. And besides, it's not like President Obama and Secretary Clinton wanted to do bad things. They had no choice. If they hadn't done those things, anything could have happened. Republicans could have gotten the leg up as the "tough-on-terrorism" party. And we all know what they're like. And Snowden shooting his mouth off about both sides certainly wasn't going to do much to preserve the image of the Democrats as the civil liberties party.

    So, you see, this whole fiasco it all Snowden's own damned fault.

  • Bretzky||

    This is news? Caring about means is so 18th century.

  • ||

    Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
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  • ConstitutionFirst||

    TROLL

  • OldMexican||

    Re: Tony the Marxian,

    Republicans are to blame for expanded executive authority in both parties.


    "The Republicans made me do it!" - says el excelentísimo señor presidente

    You've got a very libertarian Congress--it does practically nothing! So don't cry about the consequences.


    Among the consequences is a president blandishing quasi-dictatorial powers. If only Congress did his bidding, then there would be nothing to complain about! See? Logic!

    Deconstructing Tony is fun. The Marxian is so transparent, one can enjoy this game during office hours.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Now, now, OldMexican, it's not that Obama wants to rule by executive fiat. It's just that those Republican obstructionists don't see the obvious superiority of his policies (well, they do, it's just that they pretend not to. Because Obama is black.). I mean, if he had the option, of course he'd be happy to welcome them on board. If nothing else, to provide political support in the event there's difficulties in the transition to his policies. Not that any such difficulties would arise, since his policies are so obviously superior.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    I'm glad that Tony has denounced democracy. He used to say that, if we want a libertarian country, we need to convince others and get people elected. Now we have a "very libertarian Congress," and the president is forced to take on more power to counteract the libertarianism. Those are the natural consequences! So I guess democracy is pointless after all.

  • kbolino||

    So I guess democracy is pointless after all.

    No, no, see you don't understand. If the Congress is held by Democrats elected by the people, then their actions are the truest expression of the will of the people. If the President is a Democrat elected by the people, then his actions are the truest expression of the will of the people. And if neither Congress nor the Presidency are in the hands of Democrats elected by the people, then the Supreme Court is the truest expression of the will of the people.

    Doesn't it all make so much more sense now?

  • waffles||

    It's almost as if she is the craven monster that she is made out to be.

  • Knarf Yenrab!||

    She's been coached by the very best.

    Is it wrong that I'm optimistic that President Hillary would stroke out within a year, leaving Bill to run the nation while she sits in a dusty corner of the WW drooling into her cream of wheat?

  • OldMexican||

    Hillary Clinton is nothing if not responsive to the changing winds of Democratic Party opinion.


    It's not the Democratic Party opinion that is changing. Their opinion has been always more or less the same: anti-capitalist, pro-Union, pro-State, anti-individual liberties.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    It Takes A Cunt

  • Empress Trudy||

    Clinton know one thing. People, voting people are a stupid bovine mob with the attention span of a stupid bovine mob. I bet you could get her to shout 12 different things on every stump speech, 4 of which are patently impossible, another 4 of which 100% contradict the other four, admit that what she just said is retarded and insane and her numbers would go up.

  • Paper Wasp||

    Democrats in the late Bush/Cheney era were apoplectic about the White House's rogue warmaking...

    Not Hillary. She voted for it, to appear "tough on terror(TM)". Then claimed she was "duped" when it was no longer politically expedient. And her base, who doesn't care what she says or does as long as she's got that all-important clam in her pants, is totally buying it. Anybody who doesn't is "sexist."


    The woman has no actual convictions, no actual beliefs. None. I laugh with wry agony at her supporters. "She won the debate! She's the best candidate! She's the most presidential!! Hurr de durr derrrp!"

  • Tony||

    As I'm constantly trying to tell Berniebots, beliefs and convictions are incredibly overrated. Grow up people.

  • Ayn Random Variation||

    And there you have it

  • MarkLastname||

    "Whatever it takes to win" basically? I get it now: you're only so upset with Trump because he's applying your political philosophy better than anyone in the field!

  • scareduck||

    "I got my Obamacare, fuck the rest."

    -- the huge majority of Democratic voters

  • ConstitutionFirst||

    I wonder how she will flap in the breeze when it is reveled in her emails that she was not doing her job at State because she was too busy selling access?

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