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Supreme Court

Trump's Unconstitutional Attack on Birthright Citizenship Finally Reaches the Supreme Court

Understanding the stakes in Trump v. Barbara.

Damon Root | 3.31.2026 7:00 AM

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(Photo: Michael Brochstein/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

A decade ago, I wrote a cover story for Reason magazine titled "Trump vs. the Constitution." It explained how then-candidate Donald Trump's call to abolish the constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship for millions of U.S.-born children ran afoul of the text, history, and original meaning of the 14th Amendment. It also noted the dismaying fact that so many Republicans appeared ready to support Trump's unconstitutional agenda.

"Most Republicans claim to revere the Constitution," I wrote. "Yet when it comes to the issue of birthright citizenship, far too many Republicans, from Ed Meese on down to Donald Trump, seem willing to ignore the text and history of the 14th Amendment. Not exactly a reassuring indication of the GOP's fidelity to originalist constitutional principles."

Tomorrow, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in Trump v. Barbara, the case arising from Trump's 2025 executive order on birthright citizenship. And just as I warned a decade ago, the Republican Party is effectively marching in lockstep under Trump's unlawful direction.

But what about the self-professed originalists who currently sit on the Supreme Court? Will those Republican-appointed justices now side with Trump, too?

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If they do, it will only be because they have decided to ignore the overwhelming originalist evidence that refutes Trump's case.

Start with the constitutional text. According to the 14th Amendment, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." That language was drafted in 1866 and ratified in 1868. How was it originally understood?

The 1865 edition of Noah Webster's popular An American Dictionary of the English Language defined "jurisdiction," when applied to a government, as meaning the "power of governing or legislating," "the right of making or enforcing laws," and "the power or right of exercising authority." To be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States, in other words, meant to be subject to U.S. law and authority. It meant that a person must follow U.S. law or else face punishment in the U.S. legal system.

In his executive order, Trump asserted that birthright citizenship must be denied to the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants and lawful temporary visitors. Yet both illegal immigrants and lawful temporary visitors are subject to U.S. law and authority. The U.S. has "the right of making or enforcing laws" that apply to such persons when they are on U.S. soil. Their U.S.-born children thus satisfy the textual requirements for birthright citizenship set forth in the Citizenship Clause. Trump's executive order against such newborns is unconstitutional under the original public meaning of the text.

This original understanding of the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction" was already well-known in U.S. law by the time of the 14th Amendment's framing and ratification. "When private individuals of one nation spread themselves through another as business or caprice may direct, mingling indiscriminately with the inhabitants of that other," Chief Justice John Marshall wrote in Schooner Exchange v. McFadden (1812), "it would be obviously inconvenient and dangerous to society, and would subject the laws to continual infraction, and the government to degradation, if such individuals or merchants did not owe temporary and local allegiance, and were not amenable to the jurisdiction of the country." When foreigners are present on U.S. soil, for "business or caprice," they are subject to the laws—subject to the jurisdiction—of the U.S.

There are certain limited exceptions to the constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship. The U.S.-born children of foreign ambassadors and foreign ministers, for example, do not become U.S. citizens at birth because their parents have diplomatic immunity and are therefore not subject to U.S. law. Likewise, the U.S.-born children of invading foreign troops do not receive birthright citizenship because their parents are subject to the laws of war, not to the laws of the U.S.

Sen. Jacob Howard (R-Mich.), who spearheaded the 14th Amendment's passage as its floor manager in the Senate, detailed these limited exceptions in a widely reprinted 1866 speech. "While birthright citizenship would not extend to "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States," Howard said, those eligible for birthright citizenship "will include every other class of persons." The children of illegal immigrants and lawful temporary visitors all fall within this category of "every other class of persons."

Trump, by contrast, has repeatedly argued for a much more restrictive view of the Citizenship Clause. "Birthright Citizenship is about the babies of slaves," Trump has claimed. "It had to do with Civil War results, and the babies of slaves who our politicians felt, correctly, needed protection."

One problem with Trump's simplistic claim is that the 1866–68 debates over the framing and ratification of the amendment are also replete with references to the establishment of birthright citizenship for the children of aliens. For example, the first senator to speak out against the proposed 14th Amendment was Edgar Cowan, a Republican from Pennsylvania. He objected that it would make citizens out of the U.S.-born children of unpopular immigrants. "Is it proposed that the people of California are to remain quiescent while they are overrun by a flood of immigration of the Mongol race?" Cowan demanded. "Are they to be immigrated out of house and home by Chinese?"

Cowan also mentioned the presence of "Gypsies" in Pennsylvania. "They wander in gangs in my State," he declared. "These people live in the country and are born in the country. They infest society." Are their children also to be granted birthright citizenship by the proposed amendment? "If the mere fact of being born in the country confers that right," Cowan said, "then they will have it; and I think it will be mischievous."

The supporters of the 14th Amendment agreed with Cowan's assessment of what its language would accomplish: namely, that "the mere fact of being born in the country" can and would confer birthright citizenship. "I beg my honorable friend from Pennsylvania to give himself no further trouble on account of the Chinese in California or on the Pacific coast," responded Sen. John Conness (R–Calif.). "We are entirely ready to accept the provision proposed in this constitutional amendment, that the children born here of Mongolian parents shall be declared by the Constitution of the United States to be entitled to civil rights and to equal protection before the law with others."

Another fatal problem with the Trump administration's position is that it would wreck the one thing that all sides—including Trump himself—agree that the Citizenship Clause was designed to do: namely, to make citizens out of all black Americans and thereby overrule the Supreme Court's notorious decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which said that black Americans had "no rights which the white man was bound to respect."

In other words, if Trump's executive order is allowed to stand, it would annihilate a central purpose of the 14th Amendment itself.

This devastating argument against the Trumpian position has been laid out in detail by the legal scholars Gabriel Chin and Paul Finkelman. "Whatever else it did, the citizenship clause unquestionably granted citizenship to the formerly enslaved African Americans born in the United States," they observed in the UC Davis Law Review. Yet "the parents of some of those children had been trafficked here in violation of federal laws regulating or prohibiting the slave trade, and were in fact living in the United States in violation of federal law. Accordingly, whatever else 'subject to the jurisdiction thereof' might mean, it necessarily included the children of unauthorized migrants."

When I first raised the alarm a decade back about Trump's gathering attack on birthright citizenship, I argued that "if the courts follow the Constitution," Trump "will surely fail." Tomorrow, we will get our first indications as to what the Supreme Court's self-described originalists will actually do now that the conflict has finally reached their courtroom.

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NEXT: Brickbats: April 2026

Damon Root is a senior editor at Reason and the author of A Glorious Liberty: Frederick Douglass and the Fight for an Antislavery Constitution (Potomac Books). His next book, Emancipation War: The Fall of Slavery and the Coming of the Thirteenth Amendment (Potomac Books), will be published in June 2026.

Supreme CourtImmigrationDonald TrumpTrump Administration14th AmendmentBirthright CitizenshipConstitutionCivil LibertiesLaw & Government
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  1. Mickey Rat   2 months ago

    "Sen. Jacob Howard (R-Mich.), who spearheaded the 14th Amendment's passage as its floor manager in the Senate, detailed these limited exceptions in a widely reprinted 1866 speech. "While birthright citizenship would not extend to "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States," Howard said, those eligible for birthright citizenship "will include every other class of persons." The children of illegal immigrants and lawful temporary visitors all fall within this category of "every other class of persons."

    That Sen. Howard quote does not support that conclusion. The classes of people excluded from birthright citizenship in the quote include "foreigners and aliens". Illegal immigrants to the US are by definition alien and foreign, as are temporary residents. How do you come to the opposite conclusion without stating some kind of logic to get you there?

    1. MasterThief   2 months ago

      It's either retardation or pure gaslighting. The quote pretty clearly states the opposite of Root's conclusion.

      1. Spiritus Mundi   2 months ago

        Don't be so quick to dismiss hubris. Root is a self-important preening ass hat.

      2. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        Well, keep in mind that Root is (like most of the Reason staff) a TDS-addled steaming pile of lying shit who should fuck off and die.

        1. NM Dave   2 months ago

          I'm amazed at the level of shallow intellect it took to assemble the wording of your post, and the continued level of blatant racism that it took to post it. It is obvious to me, and everyone else occupying the top 90% of the intellectual spectrum that if we were to accept the argument of the Trump administration (to attribute this to Trump himself is to foolishly think that he dreamed this up all by himself, a feat that he's incapable of) then we would have to accept that because people here illegally are NOT subject to the jurisdiction of the US, they cannot be arrested or detained for any reason, not for being here illegally, or for committing murder. This level of immunity applies to diplomats and their families, and more than once this exact thing has happened, the most recent in 2023, and before that in 2015. For all the lying the MAGA cult does about violent illegals, (29 murders in 2025 committed by a reasonably estimated 14 million people) you'd think the wouldn't want to make the base of those who can commit murder without consequences smaller, not larger. But MAGA cultists aren't very bright. Interestingly, the 29 number comes from Trump's very own Dept. of Homeland Security. If we were to accept the ridiculous claims of our Meal Team 6 Vice President (30 million illegals) this would cut the already extremely low murder rate by more than half. This cult is absolutely evil, and the blatant racism of the entire MAGA movement is crystal clear to the entire world.

          1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            First, learn to paragraph. Second, you are not part of ‘the top 90% of the intellectual spectrum’. And finally, ‘jurisdiction’ in the context of the 14th amendment has nothing to do with our law enforcement being able to arrest foreigners. You’re using stupid people’s logic to twist that around.

            This has been explained many times already here and going back decades. You just don’t like it.

            No more anchor babies, no more open borders.

          2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            Wtf was racist about that post?

            1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

              It’s all he knows how to say.

          3. IceTrey   2 months ago

            It's personal jurisdiction not territorial jurisdiction.

    2. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

      He's a propagandist.

    3. Zeb   2 months ago

      persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens,

      It's kind circular, though, isn't it? The whole debate here is whether people in that class are citizens or foreigners, not whether their parents are.

      1. Moderation4ever   2 months ago

        I agree the issue is the citizenship of the children and that seems clear from the 14th amendment and from 1940 codification of the definition in Nationality Act of 1940.

        1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

          Incorrect. If 14a means what you claim, why were there 2 more laws passed in the following decades granting citizenship to those Damon claims were not part of the exclusion?

          Parody indeed.

          1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            He’ll just keep lying. Same as every other day.

          2. Nelson   2 months ago

            Is your argument really, “Oh, yeah? Then why did Congress pass unnecessary legislation.?”. Even for you, that is pathetic.

            If you think that Congress only passes legislation that is strictly necessary, and never any more, I have some bad news for you.

      2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        They remain foreigners until recognized under the full jurisdiction of the country, as recognized by legal status. That has always been the case.

    4. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

      Your interpretation leaves the phrase "who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers" a very odd turn of phrase doesn't it?

      It seems to clearly qualify the "foreigners, aliens" part, otherwise it would read:

      birthright citizenship would not extend to "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens [and those] who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers..."

      I do concede it is a poorly worded and punctuated quote, but can you otherwise explain why the word "who" appears there?

      1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

        I asked ChatGPT

        in the phrase " While birthright citizenship would not extend to "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States," can you explain whether "who belong to the families of ambassadors..." modifies the aforementioned "foreigners and aliens" or does it seem to be a separate group from the "foreigners and aliens"?

        This is a grammar + legal-interpretation question, and the answer turns on how restrictive relative clauses work in 19th-century legal English.

        Let’s break the sentence down structurally:

        “persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States”

        1. The key grammatical issue

        The question is whether:

        Interpretation A (restrictive):
        “who belong to the families of ambassadors…” modifies foreigners and aliens — meaning only a subset of foreigners/aliens are excluded.

        or

        Interpretation B (separate category):
        it introduces an additional independent group, distinct from foreigners and aliens generally.
        The decisive clue: the repeated “who”

        Notice the structure:

        persons born in the U.S.
        who are foreigners, aliens
        who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers

        In English grammar, repeating “who” normally signals a restrictive clause further specifying the same noun, not a new category.

        So grammatically, it reads as:

        foreigners and aliens of a particular kind — namely those belonging to ambassadorial families.

        If the writer intended a separate category, you would expect wording like:

        “foreigners or aliens, and persons belonging to the families of ambassadors…”
        or a semicolon/list structure.

        Instead, the clause is nested.

        2. How legal English typically works here

        In legal drafting (especially 19th-century congressional debates and opinions), stacked modifiers commonly narrow meaning step-by-step:

        General category → increasingly specific subset

        So the structure is:

        persons born in the U.S.
        who are foreigners/aliens
        who (specifically) belong to ambassadorial families

        This is cumulative restriction, not enumeration.

        3. Logical meaning produced

        Under normal grammatical reading, the phrase means:

        Birthright citizenship does not extend to children born in the U.S. who are foreigners or aliens in the sense of being members of diplomatic families.

        In other words:

        Not all foreigners/aliens are excluded.
        Only those with diplomatic immunity (ambassadors’ families).

        4. Why this matters historically (brief context)

        This language reflects the longstanding legal doctrine that diplomats are not subject to U.S. jurisdiction, so their children are treated as outside ordinary territorial allegiance.

        The clause is explaining why those particular aliens are excluded — not creating a broad exclusion for all aliens.

        5. Quick grammatical test

        Try removing the second clause:

        persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens

        This becomes vague and overbroad.

        Now include the second clause:

        foreigners, aliens who belong to the families of ambassadors…

        Now the category becomes precise and coherent — a strong sign the second clause is restrictive, not additive.

        Conclusion

        Grammatically and structurally:

        “who belong to the families of ambassadors…” modifies “foreigners, aliens.”

        It describes a subset of foreigners/aliens (diplomatic families), not a separate additional group.

        1. Benitacanova   2 months ago

          chatGBT? seriously?

          1. NM Dave   2 months ago

            Do you think you can do better? If you can, you should choose a less silly name. You aren't helping yourself at all.

            1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

              Haha, what a fucking putz judging handles.

              You’re such an intellectual giant DAVE!

      2. rswallen   2 months ago

        I think you can read it two ways. You can read it as qualifying the specific meaning of "foreigners, aliens". But you can also read it as a list of classes of people.

        You start with the full list (1), then remove the redundant words. First you remove the extra "persons born in the United States" (2). Then you remove the redundant "who are" preceding "aliens" (because foreigner and alien are both statuses that you either are or are not) (3). Finally you can't remove the "who" before the final class, because if you did, the full phrase doesn't make sense (persons [...] who are belong to the families...).

        So the final phrase with redundancies removed is "persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers". (4)

        If you want to follow along, {...} will indicate redundant words:
        (1) persons born in the United States who are foreigners, persons born in the United States who are aliens, persons born in the United States who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.

        (2) persons born in the United States who are foreigners, {...} who are aliens, {...} who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.

        (3) persons born in the United States who are foreigners, {...} {...} aliens, {...} who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.

        (4) persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers".

        1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          I think you can read it two ways.

          That's fair. I like your analysis.

          My understanding is that this line was spoken and transcribed. Sometimes pauses and rewording that is obvious from a spoken inflection, is lost when written. So, I agree, it could have meant either.

      3. IceTrey   2 months ago

        It's a transcript from 150 years ago. The person who wrote it may have accidentally left the word "and" out.

    5. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

      Here is an entire article from a legal professor stating how Damon is wrong yet again on the subject, about this very quote.

      https://thefederalist.com/2025/12/08/senator-who-helped-write-birthright-citizenship-clause-specifically-said-it-doesnt-include-aliens/

      1. MollyGodiva   2 months ago

        They don't state how it is wrong, just declare that it is.

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          Lying commie scum.

        2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

          Nope. Try again retard.

          Faggot

        3. Mickey Rat   2 months ago

          Just as Root merely declares that his preferred interpretation is correct.

          1. windycityattorney   2 months ago

            Root has 150yrs of our govt treating children born here as citizens even when their parents were not. I think the detractors would have to explain why everybody else got it wrong for so long if it was obvious.

            Trump and more correctly, the heritage foundation - aren't making historical or legal arguments. They are making political arguments. Anchor babies are bad so we interpret the language/words as if they are saying something different. Subject to the jurisdiction doesn't mean what most people think it means...it has a special meaning. It of course means our laws apply to them but it also means they have full allegiance only to us. When asked why the drafters didn't include any language about allegiance in the amendment... 'it was too obvious to them to even need to include it.' Ya fkn right. Nice try.

      2. Nelson   2 months ago

        “ Here is an entire article from a legal professor stating how Damon is wrong yet again on the subject, about this very quote.”

        You constantly try to use “this one guy said” as irrefutable proof that you are right.

        If your logic held, only uncontested laws would be valid, since someone always disagrees with the language (and the substance, for that matter) of every Amendment and law ever written.

        Unlike a broken clock, this argument is never right.

    6. MollyGodiva   2 months ago

      Basic grammar says that the foreigners and aliens are those who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government. None others.

      1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        Tony, like most subjects, you’re far too stupid to discuss this.

        You may off now.

        Faggot

        1. freedomwriter   2 months ago

          Every maga accusation is an admission. How many assholes did you smash today? Dicks sucked? Dresses crossed?

    7. M L   2 months ago

      The entire congressional debate, where that speech comes from, makes it perfectly clear that foreigners, aliens, and all those owing allegiance or being subject to a foreign power (even a quasi-foreign power in the case of Indians) are excluded from the clause.

      Trump's position is absolutely correct on the crux of the constitutional issue. The EO could be wrong in some of the details and and act of Congress would be better, but on the basic issue the open borders crowd is wrong here.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Ironically Ark makes this exact same point in discussing the allegiance of the parents.

        1. windycityattorney   2 months ago

          the parents that they repeatedly state are subjects of the emperor of china? Those parents?

      2. Nelson   2 months ago

        “ The entire congressional debate, where that speech comes from, makes it perfectly clear …”

        How strange that no one noticed that in the course of the last century-plus that birthright citizenship has been the law. It’s almost like there’s a lot of revisionist history going on by xenophobes, bigots, and “heritage Americans”.

    8. Social Justice is neither   2 months ago

      You start with the conclusion. The person born isn't a foreigner, their parents are so obviously it must apply to them...retardation or malevolence.

    9. charliehall   2 months ago

      "That Sen. Howard quote does not support that conclusion."

      It does. Your understanding of the English language is poor.

  2. diver64   2 months ago

    Quite the misleading headline. SCOTUS has never ruled on birthright citizenship so it can't be "unconstitutional" outside of your personal opinion.

    1. SQRLSY   2 months ago

      So the USA cunts-tits-tuition saying "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside"?

      That's just YOUR opinion, man!!!! In MY opinion, the USA cunts-tits-tuition AND Jesus Christ BOTH say "Illegal sub-humans are despicable vermin and should be shot on sight, and then eaten raw with a side of asshole slaw"!

    2. Nelson   2 months ago

      There have been citizenship cases that touch on children of foreigners. Claiming otherwise is just lying.

      1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        Yes, we know you’re a liar.

    3. Moderation4ever   2 months ago

      What about US vs Wong Kim Ark decided in 1898? SCOTUS in a 6-2 opinion established BR citizenship for children of undocumented aliens.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Dealt with legal immigrants retard. Not illegals.

        They had been granted jurisdiction through agreement.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          It didn’t differentiate between legal and illegal immigrants, retard. Probably because there wasn’t any differentiation at the time, nor did anyone feel the need to differentiate.

          Every case brought before the Supreme Court since the Fourteenth Amendment was passed has supported birthright citizenship. Literally every single one.

          So your two choices are to assume that everyone who has ever examined the issue is so stupid that they can’t understand what words mean OR you can assume that when hundreds of intelligent people over the course of 150+ years examined the issue and came to the same conclusion, they knew what they were talking about.

          To the surprise of no one, Jesse, paleocons, and their fellow “heritage American” bigots choose the former.

    4. MollyGodiva   2 months ago

      SCOTUS does not have the power that every issue they don't rule on is undetermined and unknown.

  3. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

    Illegal aliens have chosen to reject the jurisdiction of the United States.

    1. Fu Manchu   2 months ago

      Really? So they can't go to jail in the US?

      1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        Dumb.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          That’s literally what “subject to the jurisdiction” means. You may not like it, but your feelings don’t change anything.

          1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

            Also dumb.

            1. Nelson   2 months ago

              The level of substance in your reply makes sense, given the lack of substance to any argument against birthright citizenship.

              Or do you have an intelligent and logical rebuttal that you forgot to post?

          2. IceTrey   2 months ago

            That's territorial jurisdiction the 14th refers to personal jurisdiction.

            1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

              ^THIS. Course that's bloody obvious by the CRA from which the Amendment was based.
              But BS'ers gotta BS so they can claim what they have no right too.

            2. Nelson   2 months ago

              “ That's territorial jurisdiction the 14th refers to personal jurisdiction.”

              Wanna try to explain what that means without sounding like you are making stuff up? Perhaps reference at least one of the cases that have ruled on birthright citizenship while you do?

              1. IceTrey   2 months ago

                US expats have to pay US income taxes even though they may have been overseas for years. It's because the US government has personal jurisdiction over them as US citizens. It's illegal for an adult American to have sex with someone under 16 anywhere in the world. If they find out you've been screwing 12 year olds in Thailand you can be charged with a crime because the US government has personal jurisdiction over you wherever you go.

                1. Nelson   2 months ago

                  And? Your point is that citizenship is different than not being a citizen? Well, duh.

          3. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            No, it isn’t. It refers to them being the /citizens/subjects of foreign powers. But you have to lie to push your open borders bullshit.

      2. Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)   2 months ago

        Poor sarc.

        1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

          He really should be euthanized.

      3. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

        How many are volunteering to go to jail?

      4. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Sarc, how many times does this retarded claim of yours have to be rejected before you learn?

        If you get pulled over for speeding inn another state, are you now a resident of that state?

        US does not have full jurisdiction of illegals. Illegals have access to other countries consulates. They cant vote. They aren't required to be taxed while working abroad. No selective service. No passports.

        God damn man. You show ignorance in every fucking comment.

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          I'm convinced these idiots don't even care if what they post is correct.

          1. mad.casual   2 months ago

            I'm pretty sure it's the tactic.

            Feed a computer, an AI, a nascent intelligence enough garbage and it will generate more garbage for you.

            Nazis feeding their homeschooled children niche, abject ideological garbage is bad, because populism; but China, the WEF, the UN, and the internet feeding them wildly popular abject garbage is good and totally not bad populism.

        2. Fu Manchu   2 months ago

          The moment you (a regular person, not a diplomat or member of a foreign invading military) set foot (or tire) in another state, you are subject to its jurisdiction. If you're born there *and* subject to its jurisdiction, you would in fact be a citizen of that state.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

            So, if you have an Indiana driver's license, and you cross the border into Illinois, your license becomes invalid?

          2. Outlaw Josey Wales   2 months ago

            Resident of the state. Citizen of all of the states, you know, the United ones.

          3. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            So many bad arguments out of you Drunky.

          4. IceTrey   2 months ago

            Subject to the states territorial jurisdiction not personal jurisdiction.

          5. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            Nope. Not in the context of the 14th amendment. You’re using stupid people logic (democrat logic). To justify an illegal, bullshit position. Since you have been corrected in this subject, and many others, hundreds of times, you are therefore a traitor.

          6. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            Do you lose jurisdiction under federal law. Your home state where residency is?

            No you retarded fuck.

            We get it. You have the inability for complex thought.

        3. Nelson   2 months ago

          “ If you get pulled over for speeding inn another state, are you now a resident of that state?”

          I truly can’t figure out if you are just too stupid to think or if you are the most dedicated troll I’ve ever seen.

          Why would you ever think that anyone is arguing that being “subject to the jurisdiction” has any connection to residency? Why would you think that state laws would impact federal determinations of citizenship for a baby?

          “ US does not have full jurisdiction of illegals”

          Oh, they aren’t subject to our laws? Or are you going to make an argument that because they have broken a law they aren’t “subject” to the law?

          I guess I’m really wondering what depths of stupidity you are looking to sink to.

          “ They cant vote”

          That also has nothing to do with being “subject to the jurisdiction”. Citizens can vote. Non-citizens can’t. Everybody else understands that “subject to the jurisdiction” and “citizen” aren’t the same thing. Why can’t you?

          “ They aren't required to be taxed while working abroad”

          Because the parents aren’t citizens. You really struggle to understand basic concepts, don’t you?

          “ No selective service”

          Again, because the parents aren’t citizens.

          “ No passports”

          Your dedication to repeatedly emphasizing that you don’t understand simple things almost makes me feel bad for you. Most people aren’t willing to be quite so proud about how ignorant they are.

          For reference, the rights that belong to citizens aren’t available to the parents because they aren’t citizens. I realize that confuses you, but try to learn.

      5. John Rohan   2 months ago

        Maduro went to jail in the US.

      6. charliehall   2 months ago

        I hope that the SC rules that non-citizens are indeed not subject to US jurisdiction, which would mean that they can't be sued, arrested, or deported.

    2. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

      I too reject the jurisdiction of the United States.

      1. Dillinger   2 months ago

        lol the poseur runs deep in this one.

        1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          That sound you heard was my point flying over your head.

          1. Dillinger   2 months ago

            I scrolled up from my comment I didn't even care about your context

            1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

              OK then.

              1. Dillinger   2 months ago

                aright.

              2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                You hate America, and are pining for some Neo Soviet authoritarian Marxist regime.

                We get it.

                You going to lose your shit again, comrade?

                1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

                  You literally call for mass executions for wrongthink. You don't understand freedom in the least you fascist asshole.

                  1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                    No, I want to eliminate existential Marxist threats. You can think al, the evil Marxist things you want. But when you try and make your oppression and murder happen, you get put in cages, or maybe a landfill.

                    You’re not a victim. You just don’t like it when the people you try to victimize hit back, eh comrade?

                    Now shut up and crawl back under your rock. You’ll live longer. America is a constitutional republic, not part of the global chain of socialism of which you dream and aspire to.

                    1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

                      None of this applies to me nor any of what you said below. But you'll repeat the same thing in your next comment because you're not capable of any thought except binary partisan spoon fed narratives so you assume evreyone is as mentally limited as you.

                      When you see somone opposed to any tenet of your cult like you lap up from your orange god then you think they're Marxists and deserve to die because you've never had an independent novel thought in your life. You assume if they didn't internalize the same narrative you did, they must have internalized the other one from the "bad guys" because you can't imagine reasoning out your own positions.

                      You can't grasp that someone can oppose the left and the right because you slip right in to any cookie cutter positions you're told to believe and assume everyone is as limited as you. All your comments betray your simple reasoning.

                    2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                      That’s rich. A retard like you attempting to lecture me. That doesn’t work. You’re a far left Marxist idiot. You don’t like that I shred you, and your insipid propagandist arguments. Amd I will NEVER stop.

                      Perhaps it’s time, for you to fuck off down the way to aWaPo, where you can lick your wounds, and whine to your fellow travelers there.

                      Oh, and you never oppose the left. You just claim to be above it all while you always attack KMW side, and always suppress the other. Pedo Jeffy does that too, and no one buys his bullshit either.

                      You may fuck off now. I’m done slapping you around for the moment,

                      Stupid bitch

                  2. freedomwriter   2 months ago

                    They cannot think beyond their maganess. Any opposition and they whione and cry with violent snowflake hate like marxist and TDS. Reacting as a cult would.

                    1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                      Yes, you are in a Marxist cult.

                      Retard

      2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        YIu don’t believe in A,Erica’s sovereignty. As you are a Marxist and a traitor.

        1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          You're either the most dishonest or dumbest motherfucker on this board. One of the pillars of libertarianism is individual sovereignty and state sovereignty is a pillar of Marxism you ridiculous troll.

          Pick up a fucking book and FUCK YOU and FUCK YOUR MOTHER for cursing this earth with such a stupid loser troll that has nothing better to do than troll a libertarian website and idiotically criticize people for holding libertarian views by calling them marxist.

          1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            I see I’ve touched nerve, comrade. And for the record. I am brutally honest, and posses an intellect far beyond your limited, Marxist comprehension. This clearly upsets you, as I push back against the delusion that you anything but an anti American Marxist.

            You don’t believe in America’s sovereignty. You steadfastly support every collectivist democrat narrative and consistently carry water for the DNC. I don’t make you do those things. Your Marxist instincts and beliefs do.

            So rave all you want about individual sovereignty. We all know you don’t believe in that either. As if it were up to you, America would be subjugated by the likes of Bernie and AOC, with creatures like your overlord Soros pulling the strings.

            You may fuck off now, comrade. And be glad your malignant existence is tolerated, for now.

            1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

              You touched a nerve like annoying mosquitos in my ear always buzzing, annoying with their high pitched whine. There's always more unwanted pests for every one smacked down. I mean, you aren't nearly as smart as a mosquito, your frequent claims of your superior intelligence being the first tell; your utter lack of adding anything of substance to any conversation being another; you inability to absorb any information that doesn’t fit your preconceived notions being yet another.

              Even SQRLSY gets more responses to his posts than you. You're below his level because all your comments are merely insult trolling and you're not even good at that. You make Sevo look like Einstein in comparison.

              FUCK YOU

              1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                My commentary has far more substance than the thinks veiled socialist screeds you puke out. And many of your kind are afraid to respond, as you should be. You’re all lying cowards anyway.

                You just don’t like it because I call you out over your lies. You’re an open borders Sorosite, just like so many of your fellow travelers here, and I’m not going to stop pointing that out.

                If anything, you should be begging my forgiveness and thanking me for straightening you out. I really do spoil you.

      3. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        Them get the fuck out and never come back. And we would be happy to denaturalize you.

        No more Marxists.

        1. Quicktown Brix   2 months ago

          It appears you can't differentiate love of country from subservience to it's government either. Simple thoughts for simple minds.

          1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            Sure I can. We love America, you love government. It’s that simple.

    3. Zeb   2 months ago

      So has everyone else who chooses to break a law, by that standard.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

        "Everyone else" is not an illegal alien.

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          No, but your argument seems to be that choosing to violate a particular law implies that you aren't subject to the jurisdiction. Which makes no sense to me. The government doesn't care if you reject their jurisdiction. They will apply their jurisdiction anyway if you get caught committing a crime, whatever your legal status.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

            No, that's not what I'm saying. Illegal aliens and citizens are not the same.

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              I don't disagree with that. That's not really the point being debated, though. I'm speaking narrowly about what makes one not subject to US jurisdiction and arguing that choosing to be illegally present in the country isn't that.

            2. charliehall   2 months ago

              They are the same regarding most of the protections of the Constitution. Unless you think that illegal aliens aren't persons. That is what the Nazis said about Jews.

              1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                They’re not citizens. But we both know you don’t believe in the concept of citizenship, right comrade?

          2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            This is dishonest zeb, and you know it.

            There are multiple jurisdictions at any times. City. State, federal.

            There id also legal jurisdiction, criminal jurisdiction, regulatory jurisdiction.

            You've rendered the meaning of jurisdiction meaningless by saying someone held to standard basic laws.

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              How does that make it meaningless? I'm trying to get to the meaning of jurisdiction. Isn't that the whole debate here, really? If someone is subject to deportation, how are they not subject to the jurisdiction of the US? I understand there are different interpretations, and historical context. But it's also true that at the time of the 14th, people who were here were here, and their descendants, if still here, are citizens. The point at the time was to avoid having a population (primarily freed slaves, but it also clarified status for descendants of immigrants) that was resident but not clearly citizens. My overall take is that the text of the 14th is not sufficient to deal with the circumstances of today.

              1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

                They can be deported BECAUSE they are not subject to US jurisdiction.

                1. Zeb   2 months ago

                  And there we diametrically disagree. How can there be a power to legally deport without jurisdiction?

                  1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                    That was never what jurisdiction meant in the context of 14A. This is well established.

                  2. Dillinger   2 months ago

                    Zeb you are smarter than this.

                  3. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

                    Because they're two different things?

                  4. IceTrey   2 months ago

                    Because there's territorial jurisdiction and personal jurisdiction.

                2. Dillinger   2 months ago

                  ^^^

                3. Nelson   2 months ago

                  “ They can be deported BECAUSE they are not subject to US jurisdiction.”

                  This is about as ignorant as it’s possible to get on the subject of jurisdiction.

                  Someone subject to the jurisdiction of the US can be sent to jail for a crime BECAUSE of that fact.

                  Someone subject to the jurisdiction of the IS can be deported BECAUSE of that fact.

                  If they weren’t subject to the jurisdiction of the US, they couldn’t be deported.

                  It’s not that hard a concept for most people to grasp.

              2. IceTrey   2 months ago

                That's territorial jurisdiction not personal.

              3. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 months ago

                Zeb, our country is “not sufficient to deal with the circumstances of today”.

                There’s 8 billion people on the planet. We can’t do this anymore. We just can’t. The progs aren’t interested in discussing limits because of their globalist induced self loathing, but that’s on them. They have lost. It’s time to move on.

                1. Zeb   2 months ago

                  I don't disagree with you about that. My opinions or yours on the topic don't make any difference to what the law actually is. Nor do our debates about the meaning of the 14th have any bearing on what the court will decide or what Trump will do in response if it doesn't go the way he wants. So we'll just have to wait and see what happens, won't we? In the mean time I'll keep amusing myself by debating these arcane issues with anonymous weirdos who may or may not know what they are talking about on the internet.

              4. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                The entire debate during drafting and laws temporal to drafting all treated jurisdiction to mean complete jurisdiction. Thats the entire issue.

                1. Nelson   2 months ago

                  “ The entire debate during drafting and laws temporal to drafting all treated jurisdiction to mean complete jurisdiction”

                  No, it didn’t. Even the “one guy” from your “this one guy said” didn’t say that.

                  Every time this issue has come before the court, it has found in favor of birthright citizenship. I realize you’re disappointed that the racists of the past weren’t racist enough for you, but learn to live with disappointment.

                  Birthright citizenship has an unbroken string of victories from the moment it because part of the Constitution through today. It is literally undefeated.

          3. Azathoth!!   2 months ago

            No, but your argument seems to be that choosing to violate a particular law implies that you aren't subject to the jurisdiction.

            They are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US because if they break a law they can appeal to their country's consulate. The country whose jurisdiction they ARE subject to.

            If you are a US citizen you CAN'T appeal to the consulate of another nation because you're subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

            This is so incredibly, obviously simple that it's clear that only leftist obfuscation keeps this idiocy alive.

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              THey may be subject to another country as well, but I don't see how that makes them not subject to US jurisdiction. Appealing to a consulate isn't a get out of jail free card. The US can still lock them up or deport them or whatever if they have them in custody.

              1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

                If they mean the version of jurisdiction you want to use. The term jurisdiction is meaningless. They could have stopped at anyone in the US. The additional clause of jurisdiction becomes redundant. This is found in the congressional discussion at the time.

                1. Zeb   2 months ago

                  Fine, I may be wrong. We'll see what the court decides. I'm sure at least some of the opinions will be informative and interesting. But I don't think it's as obvious as you think. There is and has been ongoing debate about this. I don't think it's entirely based on people taking the more expansive interpretation of birthright citizenship are liars and/or idiots.

                  1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

                    I don’t have a lot of faith in the Robert’s court courage to decide correctly on this. He is a weak man, and many of the others are probably afraid of being assassinated by a democrat if they don’t cave in to them.

                    Thats where we are as a country now. Time to eliminate the democrat party if our constitutional republic is to survive.

                  2. Nelson   2 months ago

                    “ I don't think it's entirely based on people taking the more expansive interpretation of birthright citizenship are liars and/or idiots.”

                    I don’t think so, either. Additionally, those opposing birthright citizenship are, by and large, not idiots either. They are liars, though.

                    Or perhaps just useful idiots who will believe anything Trump says and find a convenient sophistry to allow them to convince themselves they aren’t rubes.

                2. Nelson   2 months ago

                  “ If they mean the version of jurisdiction you want to use.”

                  It’s the version that everyone uses. And every single court case has failed to discover any other version.

                  “ The term jurisdiction is meaningless.”

                  Then why is it used in the Constitution? Perhaps you believe they could have just used glarbifarbicote instead, since “jurisdiction” doesn’t have a meaning?

                  “ This is found in the congressional discussion at the time.”

                  You keep saying this, but it remains untrue that the meaning has been completely misunderstood since before the Amendment was passed. One guy had an opinion. It didn’t prevail. Build a bridge and get over it.

            2. charliehall   2 months ago

              "They are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US because if they break a law they can appeal to their country's consulate."

              Which has no power to intervene. George W. Bush ended that.

            3. Nelson   2 months ago

              “ if they break a law they can appeal to their country's consulate”

              And? It doesn’t indemnify them, nor prevent them from being tried and convicted of a crime.

              By your logic the Witness Protection Program means that Mafia members aren’t subject to the jurisdiction of the US, either.

              “ This is so incredibly, obviously simple that it's clear that only leftist obfuscation keeps this idiocy alive.”

              If it’s so obvious, why does over 150 years of jurisprudence always come down on the side of birthright citizenship? It has literally never lost a case.

              Or are all Supreme Court justices guilty of “leftist obfuscation”?

  4. Get To Da Chippah   2 months ago

    Likewise, the U.S.-born children of invading foreign troops do not receive birthright citizenship because their parents are subject to the laws of war, not to the laws of the U.S.

    WTF are "the laws of war"?

    1. Fu Manchu   2 months ago

      For example, Geneva Conventions. If captured, they are not subject to domestic laws but would be held as POWs.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

        So, POWs are not subject to domestic laws?

      2. Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment   2 months ago

        "For example, Geneva Conventions..."

        Not "laws", asswipe.

        1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

          The Geneva Conventions do allow POWs to be prosecuted for crimes in the countries where they are held.

          1. charliehall   2 months ago

            Which makes them subject to jurisdiction.

            This is not rocket science but you are doubling and tripling down on your bigoted ignorance.

      3. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

        Wrong. POWs are subject to domestic laws. Many WWII POWs held in the USA were prosecuted for crimes committed here. They certainly were not subject to the jurisdiction" of the USA while prisoners of war here, and the child of a female prisoner would not have been considered a citizen. Offering citizenship to such a child would have been considered a kidnapping by the mother's country.

        1. Fu Manchu   2 months ago

          They aren't subject to domestic laws for military actions. If an invading soldier shoots a defending soldier on the battlefield, it's illegal to charge the invading soldier with murder. If the invading soldier fucks a tween boy like Sevo does, that's not an action performed as part of war so it's prosecutable.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

            "If captured, they are not subject to domestic laws"

            That's what you said. It's wrong.

      4. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        That isn’t relevant to the discussion. Stop trying to make ‘fetch’ happen.

  5. Ersatz   2 months ago

    Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh I think can all be counted on not to let their personal distatste for any president to allow them to twist a verdict just to spite the man in charge. The rest I'm not sure of... in Barretts case I dont think it would present to her consciousness as spite but more moral repugnance. In all 3 dem-bot rubber stamps cases, yes - it would be both TDS and the synergy of having no great love of the constitution over their progressive enlightenment. Roberts has already shown the capacity for tortured logic in order to get a verdict from the conclusion he wants rather than the guidance of the law.

    I would say best case scenario - 5/4 against modern construction of BRC and otherwise 6/3 to support birthrite tourism and the corruption of the citizen process into some running man game style dare - with the ultimate aim of overloading the welfare state.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      My money is on a maximum of two supporting Trump: Alito and Thomas. Of the other conservatives, I can’t think of any that are willing to sell out the law to please the paleocons.

      1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        You have no concept of the law. Only DNC narratives. You’re a dishonest Marxist propagandist.

    2. Moderation4ever   2 months ago

      The law here is pretty clear the 14th Amendment, the 1898 SCOTUS support in US vs Wong Kim Ark, and 1940 Nationality Act. This clearly 9-0 against Trump. Maybe 7-2 if some justices cannot help but give Trump whatever he wants without regard to our Constitution.

      1. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        The law was so clear that two more laws were written post 14a to open up citizenship such as to native Americans lol.

        Youre right. It is clear. Just not your belief in what it means.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          And yet no court, ever, has discovered your “obviously correct” interpretation? Somehow they have always, in every birthright citizenship case, rejected your interpretation?

          How has that happened?

  6. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

    There's a way to handle all of this if the Court rules to allow any and all kids born on US soil to have instant citizenship: Instantly deport the mother. She does not leave the hospital except in ICE custody. She isn't a citizen.
    She can take her kid with, or it becomes a ward of the State and put up for adoption.

    De-incentivize this shit and it stops.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      Ah, yes. The cruelty is the point.

      1. Idaho-Bob   2 months ago

        Enforcing border policies is the point. Reducing welfare is the point. Reducing crime is the point.

        Respecting your feelings is not the point.

        1. charliehall   2 months ago

          Violent crime rates are plummeting in most of the US, more so in Blue areas than Red.

      2. bobodoc   2 months ago

        You're a fool Nelson.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          No, I’m just not an asshole. And I can separate what I want to be true from what actually is true.

  7. JohannesDinkle   2 months ago

    Congress have already clarified the 14th Amendment. They passed a law saying that children of foreign embassy employees were not given citizenship status, and in 1924 the Indian Citizenship Act said American Indians and their children were citizens and could vote.
    Amendment is not necessary, but clarification is possible. The birthright could be limited to children born to legal permanent residents only.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      “The birthright could be limited to children born to legal permanent residents only.”

      Why would any honest Justice rule that way? There isn’t any evidence that it was intended to be limited like that and the precedents since the 14th Amendment was passed has supported birthright citizenship for all people born here who aren’t indemnified against US laws.

      There are those who *want* it to be true, but there is no rational argument for it besides “we don’t want it”. And your feelings have no legal validity.

    2. charliehall   2 months ago

      "The birthright could be limited to children born to legal permanent residents only."

      Only by amending the Constitution.

  8. GroundTruth   2 months ago

    7-2 (Alito and Thomas) In favor of what we've been doing for 2+ centuries.

    1. M L   2 months ago

      It's actually not what we've been doing for 2 centuries.

      Birthright citizenship in its current form started as a bureaucratic practice in the 1960s-70s.

      Before that, things were different.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Repatriation

  9. mad.casual   2 months ago

    Slightly OT or FYI: ‘We did everything they wanted’: The American families caught in Italy’s citizenship crackdown

    Italy doesn't have birthright or jus soli citizenship. They use jus sanguinis or 'blood relative' citizenship and they're dialing it back. That is, it used to be that if you could Elizabeth "1/1024ths" Warren your way back to a relative born in Italy to Italian parents, you qualified for Italian citizenship, regardless of where you were born. Now, the relative has to be within 2 generations (parent or grandparent).

    In fact, outside the Western Hemisphere, Pakistan is the only notable country with unconditional birthright citizenship. Most all of Europe, Asia, and Africa doesn't have or recognize it.

    Given the wars and disputes in Eastern Europe and Asia for the last century up to today, you would think Reason whether taking an individualist and/or globalist standpoint would be less retarded about things like The Jones Act, where foreign-born sailors could have children on US soil that China or Russia or wherever would regard as their own ethnic citizens for their own political aims.

    But this is Reason, so their support for globalism vs. opposition to the US vie for top or overarching libertarian principle and anything representing social stability or individual liberty fall much lower on the list, if not simply get worn as a skin suit when convenient.

    1. Zeb   2 months ago

      I think it's worth saying that the US is not those countries and immigration has been key to the development of the country. So the fact that the US is somewhat special in this regard isn't much of an argument against birthright citizenship. The US does lots of things differently from Italy, etc. and that is largely a good thing.
      That said, if I were making the rules today, I would exclude children of illegals and people here on temporary visas from birthright citizenship. I'm just not entirely convinced that the constitution allows that.

      1. mad.casual   2 months ago

        I think it's worth saying that the US is not those countries and immigration has been key to the development of the country.

        My point is that, especially from a libertarian perspective, no clear "This is what citizenship should look like or form it should take." position exists. It's pretty thoroughly orthogonal.

        The "Melting Pot" discussion is an is/ought subversion. We are a melting pot. That doesn't mean we should be more of one and the implication that it does contains a very unlibertarian (and reflexively racist) assumption about the correct degree to which we should be.

        The counter argument specifically doesn't make this assumption, just that the balance sheet has to add up. In terms of the balance sheets adding up, Sweden, Italy, and Uganda aren't where they are politically, culturally, and economically because any are more or less diverse that the others and Ukraine and Russia are where they are because of cultural diversity.

        There's a (utilitarian) libertarian case that everyone paying into the tax base should get a vote but people simply being born here aren't (necessarily) paying into the tax base now and may never do so. Moreover, people straddling cultures can and do generate problems outside their (lack of) contribution.

        I'm just not entirely convinced that the constitution allows that.

        The original law literally says "white persons, of good character". I certainly agree that's not necessarily the best answer, but it's an answer and, libertarian-wise, as long as it's not followed by "And everyone else should be beaten in the streets until they leave." it's between "the devil is in the details" and non-sequitur. If foreign-born Somalis and their native-born (adult) children are engaged in massive welfare fraud, there's a very libertarian case to be had that deporting them all somewhere else, even back home if remittance has been amassed, is more free than deporting the parents and jailing the children.

        One sprouted potato doesn't necessarily spoil a stew in a melting pot. Perfectly reasonable to remove it, though. If you dump in an entire bushel and discover that most of them have sprouted, not at all unreasonable to fish out all the potatoes, lest everyone rightly regard the stew as being filled with toxins.

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          My point is that, especially from a libertarian perspective, no clear "This is what citizenship should look like or form it should take." position exists. It's pretty thoroughly orthogonal.

          Fair enough.

    2. Moderation4ever   2 months ago

      What differentiates the US from other countries is the fact that we are a majority immigrant country. With the exception of people descended from the aboriginal people in the American continents all others are immigrants.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

        Bullshit. People born here as citizens are not immigrants.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          Sure, if you stop at an arbitrary number of generations ago. But even you have to admit Europeans were all immigrants to North America. You accept that, right?

          1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

            See above.

          2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            Bullshit. Fucking commie retard.

          3. Fats of Fury   2 months ago

            Indians were immigrants to North America too.

            1. Nelson   2 months ago

              Touche

      2. Zeb   2 months ago

        What's the limit on how far you go back to decide if someone is an immigrant (or of immigrant descent)? Go back far enough and everyone is, outside of some areas of Africa.

      3. Clipton   2 months ago

        ALL countries are peopled by immigrants, it's just a matter of how far back in time you look. Today we refer to the "Anglo-Saxon" English but they were actually invaders from what is now Denmark and Germany who forced the Brit tribes largely to the western half of the Island. And of course much of the English population has Norman blood. The same applies to other countries. Modern Thais are descendants of Hmong, Lao, Indian, Chinese immigrants from thousands of years ago.

        1. mad.casual   2 months ago

          +1 From a "natural" or biological perspective, the whole idea is a bit of an anachronism or, again as I indicated above, orthogonal.

          There is no "Sudanese" or "Ugandan" genotype. Even just geographically, "Egypt" is very amorphous. Even if you assume a relatively fixed notion of a state, if you have one son and he travels abroad, takes a wife (or several), has 8 kids (or more), and they all come home to live on your estate is that an immigrant household because the majority of them weren't born in country or a native household because the 1-3 people who were born there own it?

    3. Nelson   2 months ago

      Using “globalism” (aka the modern world) as a pejorative says a lot about you. None of it good.

      1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

        It's amazing how much leftist discourse is just them pretending not to understand things, thus making discourse impossible.

        1. Dillinger   2 months ago

          this. including the authors of this stupid rag

        2. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

          That, and them just walking away the moment they realize you disagree with them.

        3. Social Justice is neither   2 months ago

          Are you sure they're pretending? It's just as likely they've fully imbibed the subjective truth over all claims.

      2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        That’s because your Marxist filth Nelson.

  10. Clipton   2 months ago

    Typical Reason journalistic slop: Write an article on the Supreme Court deciding the Constitutionality of an issue by deciding in advance it's Constitutional.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      Apparently you are confused by independent analysis. When writing an article about upcoming Court cases, do you expect it to say, “Who knows? There’s absolutely no way to figure out anything before it happens. It’ll be a surprise to everyone.”.

      You not liking the history of birthright citizenship doesn’t make the article any less valid.

      1. Dillinger   2 months ago

        you not understanding it doesn't make you any more correct.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          My position is informed by over 150 years of legal decisions. The fact that you don’t accept that history speaks to your lack of understanding, not mine.

          Am I correct? According to all available evidence and the historical record on birthright citizenship, I am. I slso believe that, from a practical, “is this s good idea” perspective I am also right, but legally that doesn’t particularly matter.

          There is no “understanding” that denies birthright citizenship. Every single case in history has upheld birthright citizenship. Never once has birthright citizenship lost.

          Now if you want to say that you understand that reality, but disagree with it, that’s a different kettle of fish. But then your argument would have to be “birthright citizenship is the law of the land, but it shouldn't be and here’s why”.

          That would be you understanding the situation.

      2. Clipton   2 months ago

        No, but I expect "independent analysis" to be fair minded. Go ahead and argue birthright citizenship is Constitutional but the headline suggests -- no, actually proclaims -- that to even BRING the issue to the Supreme Court for resolution is an "unconstitutional attack." In other words, it's unconstitutional to argue your position before the Supreme Court which is deciding the issue you're arguing. That's akin to a 1954 Reason headline stating "Civil Rights Organizations Unconstitutionally Attack 'Separate-But-Equal Doctrine' In Supreme Court Case" Capiche?

        1. GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND   2 months ago

          “Capiche?”

          He will not. Because he’s here not to.

          1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            Nelson is here to slavishly push DNC narratives for the global Marxist collective.

        2. Nelson   2 months ago

          “ Go ahead and argue birthright citizenship is Constitutional but the headline suggests -- no, actually proclaims -- that to even BRING the issue to the Supreme Court for resolution is an "unconstitutional attack."”

          I see. You don’t think that calling relitigating a Constitutional right that has been litigated many times throughout history “unconstitutional” is a fair characterization. Well, that’s pedantic and nitpicky, but you do you.

          What your faux outrage at the language used in the headline doesn’t change is the reality about birthright citizenship. The “challenge” that is being brought is just a rehash of past cases that didn’t go the way you wish they had.

          There are no facts or issues that haven’t been addressed by past Court cases. This is just sour grapes over 150+ years of legal losses that the various different flavors of bigotry on the right wing of American politics can’t stomach.

          You don’t like the language? I’m sorry Reason hurt your feelings. You don’t like birthright citizenship? Tough. That’s just a reality of the Constitution, and a President throwing a temper tantrum about it doesn’t change a thing.

          1. windycityattorney   2 months ago

            Actually, the way it was done, via executive order, is a violation of separation of powers which one can argue in good faith violates the spirit of the constitution's design.

            The simple fact of the matter is - that to change the amendment requires a new amendment [think prohibition]. I don't even think Congress if it wished could pass trump's executive order as a statute and get around the 14th amendment's language since statutes are likewise subservient to the constitution and we have judicial review.

            BUT amending the constitution is very difficult. Much better to just make shit up, sign an executive order and throw enough shit at the wall hoping the mere fact that this President appointed some of the justices ipso facto they will side with him. It's a fools errand and always was. A political stunt. This should be easy and hopefully the Court issues an opinion by Memorial Day so all these racist historical revisionists can shove the decision straight up their racist asses.

  11. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

    I love how Damon uses abistorical bullshit to push his politics.

    A belief that makes a Chinese person visiting a small island under US protection the ability to birth US Citizens.

    https://www.congress.gov/119/meeting/house/117827/documents/HHRG-119-JU01-20250122-SD005-U5.pdf

    A system that let's Chinese millionaires pay surrogates in California to birth the child, immediately taking them back to china as us citizens.

    https://firstthings.com/the-wealthy-chinese-buying-babies-and-american-citizenship/

    The ability to those who told the US they werent pregnant and on a visitors visa to birth American babies.

    This is the system Damon and other retards above uphold despite actually historical congressional notes. Despite 2 other laws being added to graby citizenship to those who would already fall under their incorrect interpretation.

    What retards Damon and others are.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      “ despite actually historical congressional notes”

      You keep saying this as if it’s some sort of mike-dropping supreme argument. It isn’t even an interesting historical footnote. It has the power of a feather in a soft breeze.

      The rest if your screed seems to be “look, there are people gaming the system”. Well, duh, genius. There hasn’t been a system created that is immune from abuse. But just because, for example, defense contractors game the bidding system doesn’t mean that the government should stop buying weapons.

      An argument that claims “if it isn’t perfect it shouldn’t exist” is the argument of an imbecile. But that tracks, since it’s your argument.

  12. TD   2 months ago

    There are really two questions here. The first is to ask if birthright citizenship a good policy? If you think yes then nothing further need be done. If you think no, or that some additional criteria be included, then the question is what should the policy be and how do you achieve it?

    The wording of the 14th Amendment is clear to all but those who in medieval times might have argued about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's hard to see that the Supreme Court could contort its reasoning to say otherwise. Changing birthright citizenship means amending the 14th Amendment, a daunting task ultimately requiring the vote of three-fourths of the states. It's probably not going to happen. However, controlling immigration and ending the abuse of so many asylum claims, such as requiring asylum seekers to apply at an embassy or consulate rather than at the border, would go along way towards alleviating the controversy.

    Birthright citizenship is widely practiced in North and South America, which has to do with the legacy of slavery. It is not widely practiced in much of the rest of the world. Forty years ago Australia ended the practice of automatic birthright citizenship.

    1. Ben of Houston   2 months ago

      I cannot agree for two reasons. First. Reading the text and the Wong decision, I think there is a decided argument that temporary visitors, notably tourist visas, should not be included. This is mentioned in the Wong decision as an exclusion of those "born on foreign public ships", and the fact that Gray specified "resident aliens" and mentions "while domiciled here". In fact, the word "reside" or some variation is in almost every other sentence.

      Thus, I think that the practice of "Birth tourism" is reasonably not in the scope of that decision and amendment. It is clearly not the intended effect of the authors and is an absurd result of the phrasing and unexpected increase in mobility.

      And then we have the real crux. How can a person with any legal status have less rights than someone whose very presence is a crime? Additionally, this also falls afoul of the general principle of how no one should be able to benefit from their own crime. Again, anchor babies are a clearly absurd result no matter which way your look at it.

      I think we certainly need proper legislation if not a modification of the constitution one way or another. Because as it stands, we are left either with contradictions or absurdities.

      1. TD   2 months ago

        You may be right. Certainly the drafters of the 14th Amendment didn't anticipate the "unexpected increase in mobility" as you phrased it. I personally think the policy should be modified and limited to children born to at least one US citizen or green card resident, but we'll see what happens. I suppose birth certificates would need a box to check as to whether the new born was a citizen or not, and hospitals would have to do some verification.

        I do want to say that I appreciate the politeness shown in your reply which is often lacking in comments on Reason's site.

      2. Nelson   2 months ago

        “ Thus, I think that the practice of "Birth tourism" is reasonably not in the scope of that decision and amendment.”

        I think that’s splitting the hair too fine. If you are in a hotel you are “domiciled” or “residing”, albeit in a temporary manner. There are homeless people living on the street who are less able to claim that, whose children are unambiguously citizens.

        While I think that “birth tourism” is working a loophole in the system, I don’t think it’s such a pervasive problem that the entire system needs to be overthrown to address it. We don’t want to throw the baby out with the bathwater (no pun intended).

        Considering the most extreme estimates claim that out of 3.6 million annual births, 100k per year (high) or 2k per year (low) are “birth tourism” I don’t see it as a serious problem.

        “ And then we have the real crux. How can a person with any legal status have less rights than someone whose very presence is a crime?”

        I’ve seen this argument made repeatedly by hard-right conservatives, but it doesn’t make sense to me. No one has “less rights” under birthright citizenship. All babies born in the US are exactly the same, with the exact same rights. There isn’t a “less than” category. And that’s leaving aside the implication that by being born a baby has committed a crime, which seems to be an attempt to create a “lesser class” of American citizen based on the activities of their parents.

        “ Additionally, this also falls afoul of the general principle of how no one should be able to benefit from their own crime.”

        This seems to be another version of “the sins of the parents should be visited on the child”. Whether the parents do or don’t gain a benefit from having an American child is a separate (and unrelated) issue to the citizenship of the child.

        The theoretical benefit to the child (citizenship) is not something they received from any crime they committed because they didn’t commit a crime. And the ones who committed the “crime” of having their baby inside the US don’t gain citizenship from it.

        If the principle is, as you say, “no one should be able to benefit from their own crime”, there needs to be a single party that both commits the crime and receives the benefit of citizenship. But in the case of birth tourism (or even children of illegal immigrants), that doesn’t happen.

        “ Again, anchor babies are a clearly absurd result no matter which way your look at it.”

        Using racist and xenophobic terms weakens your argument. Try to argue without using broad, unjustified assumptions about why people do things. Illegal immigrants who are here for a better life don’t belong here, but having a child is an ordinary result of a relationship, not a nefarious plot.

        “ I think we certainly need proper legislation if not a modification of the constitution one way or another”

        Because the language of the Amendment snd the precedent since then all support birthright citizenship, it would take a Constitutional Amendment. Personally, I don’t see that happening.

        “ Because as it stands, we are left either with contradictions or absurdities.”

        I would point out that there are no contradictions in the jurisprudence surrounding birthright citizenship. Every case has resulted in reinforcing the text of the Amendment. And I would argue that over 150 years of consistent, unambiguous reinforcement of birthright citizenship means the only absurdity is thinking that somehow that record‘s been misunderstood this entire time.

        1. Ben of Houston   2 months ago

          Sorry, but I cannot agree. And I refuse to play your games.

          Resident and domiciled have definitions. Pretending you don't know what they mean doesn't help your case. Arguing that it's not a big deal is deflection and you know it.

          If someone is illegally in this country, having children be citizens here is clearly a benefit of a crime, and to argue otherwise is nonsense. To pretend otherwise it, to use your terms, splitting hairs. And pretending to be offended by a term that's been used since before either of us was born is also not helping anything.

          I stand by my statement that granting birthright citizenship to a child who is illegally in the country is an absurd result that could not possibly have been intended by the authors of the amendment or the justices of the Wong decision. It contradicts every legal principle that I know of as well as basic sense.

          1. Nelson   2 months ago

            “ granting birthright citizenship to a child who is illegally in the country”

            You see the point, but refuse to accept it.

            The child isn’t here illegally. The child has done nothing illegal. The child isn’t an illegal immigrant. The child isn’t a criminal.

            So even by your standard, the child isn’t a citizen and isn’t getting any benefit for their crime because, you know, they haven’t committed any crimes.

            Guilt by blood relation isn’t a thing.

    2. mad.casual   2 months ago

      The wording of the 14th Amendment is clear to all but those who in medieval times might have argued about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

      The wording of the 14th is having a cake and eating it too by people who disdained definitions widely understood back to Medieval times. That's why it routinely conflicts with (or is invoked as being in conflict with) free association, privacy, States' rights, voting rights, and various other forms of pre-established equality.

      The Medieval bickerers may've all had different methods of arriving at how many angels fit on the head of a pin, but they shared a common definition of pins and agreed that the answer was a number, rather than "critically" asking questions like "What is a pin?" and "Is math racist?"

    3. Nelson   2 months ago

      “ The wording of the 14th Amendment is clear to all but those who in medieval times might have argued about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.”

      This is the crux of the problem, isn’t it? Those who get enraged when they think someone is “getting away” with something that is allowed - but they don’t think it should be - want to change the Constitution without having to actually change the Constitution.

      “ However, controlling immigration and ending the abuse of so many asylum claims, such as requiring asylum seekers to apply at an embassy or consulate rather than at the border, would go along way towards alleviating the controversy.”

      I think this is almost a completely separate issue, but I wholeheartedly agree. I have put forth the exact same proposal here in the past, including the necessary legislative changes that would allow for asylum cases to be adjudicated remotely.

      Catch-and-release is untenable and the requirement for asylum-seekers to apply outside the US would change the character and makeup of illegal immigrants inside the US.

      I also advocate for a vastly expanded seasonal guest worker program with credit towards citizenship earned for each legal entry/exit and preference shown to those with a “clean” record of faithfully following the rules. I don’t think that having new citizens who are highly educated, white collar professionals makes much of a difference in the long run. The children of immigrants are a net positive regardless of what their parents did.

      “ Birthright citizenship is widely practiced in North and South America, which has to do with the legacy of slavery.”

      True, but the unintended advantages of the system work out well for us. There’s a reason America is such a huge draw to people around the world and it isn’t our social safety nets. We are an extraordinary country snd people want to be part of it.

      I’d like to thank you for a substantive and nuanced post. There are so few of them these days, and even fewer that aren’t immediately attacked as “leftist” or “globalist” or “open borders” or some other extreme accusation. People like you give me hope that Reason will get back to the days of forceful, but substantive, disagreement about libertarianism. I miss those days.

  13. IceTrey   2 months ago

    Root is talking about territorial jurisdiction when the 14th is talking about personal jurisdiction which is the authority the government has over you anywhere in the world. Personal jurisdiction is why US expats have to pay US income taxes even though they may not have lived in the US for years.

    1. Zeb   2 months ago

      Maybe part of my interpretation and disagreement with many here is because the notion of personal jurisdiction as you describe it offends me deeply and seems like an abomination.

      1. IceTrey   2 months ago

        It's part of being a citizen.

        1. Zeb   2 months ago

          In my view, any claim of jurisdiction by a government outside of territory it controls is fake and gay. Jurisdiction only exists because effective control exists. That's my take anyway.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

            You've made up your own definitions of what a "subject" is and what "jurisdiction" means in this context.

            1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

              Which coincidentally was the same as the AUTHOR'S of said Amendment.
              As well as the CRA act from which it is based.

              The only 'own definition' going on is those insisting invaders who give birth get citizenship.

          2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

            They are always free to renounce their citizenship zeb.

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              That is true. We can also try to encourage a reconsideration of what jurisdiction governments actually should have and what their real powers are. Control who gets to come here and stay and under what conditions, great. Claim essential ownership of citizens and their assets, I'm not so happy about.

              I like to think there's a distinction between being a citizen and a subject.

  14. Sequel   2 months ago

    The POTUS's alleged power to change birthright citizenship is firmly denied by Section 5 of 14A, which clearly reserves that power to Congress.

    There is nothing unconstitutional about banning or enshrining birthright citizenship other than the President Trump's unconstitutional attempt to do just that.

    The amendment does not clearly state who it covers. Even a century of observing a barrier that is only assumed to be a barrier --- as it was never enunciated in the Ark case, which explored the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction of the government" -- does not make it an actual barrier.

    1. CharlieG   2 months ago

      The 14th amendment clearly states who it covers, those who are subject to the jurisdiction thereof, meaning those who have made allegiance to the US, i.e. citizens and legal residents. It has never applied to illegal immigrants. It is written in plain English, you just have to be literate to comprehend it. Way too many functionally illiterate people such as yourself and Damon fail to comprehend what is plainly written.

      1. windycityattorney   2 months ago

        All person's born...

        Tell me, when a baby is born in the united states, how is that baby an illegal alien? Why would the drafters not specify or mention the parents if it was only the parents legal status that mattered?

      2. Nelson   2 months ago

        “ meaning those who have made allegiance to the US, i.e. citizens and legal residents”

        Neither the 14th Amendment, nor the Supreme Court, has ever claimed that it was limited to “ those who have made allegiance to the US”, nor to “citizens and legal residents”.

        There is a small, but vocal, minority who would agree with you, but those people can only believe that by ignoring the entire legal history of birthright citizenship.

  15. Dillinger   2 months ago

    >>constitutional guarantee of birthright citizenship for millions of U.S.-born children ran afoul of the text, history, and original meaning of the 14th Amendment.

    the 14th Amendment does no such thing and God help America if Roberts gets four more of those tyrants in robes to agree with you gaslighting wastes of time who think this is funny

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      Since the entire history of birthright citizenship is of the text of the 14th and the Supreme Court supporting and affirming (and reaffirming and reaffirming) it, why should a tiny group of xenophobic cranks get to ignore all that?

      Or is there a case that you would like to point to that supports your position?

      I didn’t think so.

  16. Truthteller1   2 months ago

    Damon Root is an idiot. There is nothing whatsoever in the constitution that allows or suggests birthright citizenship.

    1. SRG2   2 months ago

      There is nothing whatsoever in the constitution that allows or suggests birthright citizenship.

      Other than in its text, of course.

      1. Dillinger   2 months ago

        only to the part of the population for whom English is a difficulty

        1. SRG2   2 months ago

          Right. One has to be pretty illiterate or not have English as a first language not to understand the meaning of "subject to the jurisdiction". From which it follows that those jurists who are not illiterate and whose first language is English and who support Trump's preposterous EO are dishonest scumbags skilled at Rhetoricke.

          1. Dillinger   2 months ago

            ya exactly ... until all the written history hundreds of years before Trump about what "jurisdiction" means in this context ... then it's totally fucking simple

            1. Zeb   2 months ago

              Some things just aren't simple. I think this is one of those things. Everyone wants it to be a clear answer, but it isn't. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that everyone taking a contrary view here is simply being dishonest.

              1. Dillinger   2 months ago

                no not everyone but "jurisdiction" isn't truly in debate. some are being obtuse for fun. some are obtuse.

                1. Nelson   2 months ago

                  “some are being obtuse for fun. some are obtuse.”

                  Which category do you place yourself in? Because “correctly interpreting “under the jurisdiction of””isn’t possible if you deny birthright citizenship is in the Constitution.

          2. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

            You ARE pretty stupid, and dishonest. Due to your conniving Marxism. So many of us condescending to correct you, and you don’t show the slightest gratitude.

            And as you have been corrected, admit how wrong you, or just fuck off. Or perhaps you should go back to Britain, where Marxists like you have destroyed that country with endless Islamist migration. At least then you won’t be helping to get more real A,Erica’s murdered through your Marxist advocacy.

    2. charliehall   2 months ago

      Except the 14th Amendment.

  17. Agammamon   2 months ago

    The unconstitutional attack that is following all normal procedures, including judicial review?

    1. Vernon Depner   2 months ago

      But...TRUMP!

    2. Nelson   2 months ago

      Aw, do you dislike hyperbolic rhetoric when you’re on the receiving end? Because you love it when you’re giving it out.

  18. John Rohan   2 months ago

    Likewise, the U.S.-born children of invading foreign troops do not receive birthright citizenship

    Trump would argue, with some validity, that illegal immigrants are invading foreign troops. Exactly where do you draw that line?

    I am amused by the number of people who insist we can't interpret the 14th to exclude children of illegal immigrants, yet they fully supported the ridiculous re-interpretation of the 14th for the Obergefell decision. So the framers of the 14th in 1868 totally intended for it to legalize gay marriage, it's just that no one noticed until 2015??

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      “ Trump would argue, with some validity, that illegal immigrants are invading foreign troops.”

      You need a new dictionary if you are trying to use “validity” correctly.

  19. I, Woodchipper   2 months ago

    Birth tourism MUST end. One way or another. It is part and parcel to the plan to destroy our way of life.

    1. Moderation4ever   2 months ago

      Birth Tourism is a joke someone thought up to alarm the gullible. There are approximately 3.6M births in the US in a year. The birth tourism that has you rattled is is that 1% and even that is a high estimate . Another solution in search of a real problem.

      1. I, Woodchipper   2 months ago

        I consider all illegal immigrants who have children here to be part of the birth tourism phenomenon.

      2. JesseAz (RIP CK)   2 months ago

        Robbery is a joke someone thought up. Less than 1% of banks are robbed every year.

        Parody logic.

      3. I, Woodchipper   2 months ago

        Every single child born to H1Bs and other foreign workers is an anchor baby.

      4. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

        You make a lot of claims that are lies. Your word means nothing here.

        You may fuck off now.

  20. jonnysage   2 months ago

    This is all moo. Amend the constitution and make it clear. Put it to a vote.

    1. SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad   2 months ago

      It’s already perfectly clear. Except to the uneducated, which includes lying democrats.

  21. CharlieG   2 months ago

    Birthright citizenship has never applied to illegal immigrants. It has only applied to citizens and legal residents. It is incompetence to suggest otherwise, even though it has been misapplied for over century.

    1. charliehall   2 months ago

      That is a lie.

    2. Nelson   2 months ago

      “ Birthright citizenship has never applied to illegal immigrants. It has only applied to citizens and legal residents.”

      Wow, I never knew that! What Supreme Court case should I read to learn about it?

  22. TJJ2000   2 months ago

    If the Supreme Court has any honor what-so-ever it will refer to the CRA Act and the Author of said Amendment and easily rule that Damon and the rest of the self-entitled "I'm entitled too your nation" BS'ers to shove it.

  23. Brian   2 months ago

    a lax immigration policy, including birthright citizenship
    a nanny state, including lavish publicy-funded benefits
    a sustainable fiscal future for the country

    Pick two.

    1. mad.casual   2 months ago

      And this isn't some racist, right-wing MAGA nationalist ideologue. It's Milton Friedman, the guy people cribbed the idea for UBI off of.

    2. charliehall   2 months ago

      Mexico has even more lax immigration policies, free universal healthcare, and a much lower budget deficit despite lower taxes.

      It helps that it barely has a military.

      1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

        GREAT! So why won't all the people who want all that here STAY in Mexico?

  24. Mike Litoris   2 months ago

    Unconstitutional? lol

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      Would you prefer “contrary to the Constitution and every Supreme Court case on birthright citizenship”? It’s more accurate, but has less zing.

      1. IceTrey   2 months ago

        Name one SC case dealing specifically with birthright citizenship. Excluding this one.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          The most famous one is from the 1800s (United States v. Wong Kim Ark).

          No matter how much hair-splitting and nitpicking xenophobes engage in, there just isn’t any rational argument against the 14th Amendment providing birthright citizenship.

          The hard right has certainly come up with a bevy of irrational arguments. And Thomas and Alito have no ethical or moral compass, so it won’t be unanimous.

          Take your two bought-and-paid-for Justices and go.

  25. Poorgrandchildren   2 months ago

    Sometimes old interpretations of laws get reversed as in the Dred Scott case.

    1. Moderation4ever   2 months ago

      Dred Scott was never reversed. It was superseded by the 14th Amendment.

      1. charliehall   2 months ago

        One of four SC decisions superseded by a Constitutional Amendment.

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          Gee, I wonder why conservatives don’t want to pass a Constitutional Amendment?

          With the overwhelming support and logic they insist their position enjoys, it should be a cakewalk!

  26. Restoring the Dream   2 months ago

    The authors of this amendment lived at a time when there was no Federal law against immigration. But does anyone think that they would have allowed birthright citizenship to persons violating American law?

    1. charliehall   2 months ago

      Yes that was their intention. Even children of criminals became citizens.

      1. Nelson   2 months ago

        Stop countering his fearmongering with logic. It makes him sad.

  27. Mike Hansberry   2 months ago

    Is citizenship for one's children something that can be taken by force and/or in defiance of the nation's laws?

    Open borders advocates say yes.

  28. charliehall   2 months ago

    The nativist bigots are out in force today.

    They can't cite any section of the Constitution that even allows the federal government to control immigration.

    1. TJJ2000   2 months ago

      Article IV Section 4.
      "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion"

      Democratic Socialism ... NO
      Immigration Invasion Protection ... YES

      Course the invading leftards agenda is obviously to destroy every word of the US Constitution. When it says 'YES' they lobby for 'NO' and when it says 'NO' they lobby for 'YES'.

    2. IceTrey   2 months ago

      Naturalization Clause (Art. I, § 8, cl. 4): Empowers Congress to "establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization," interpreted by courts to include controlling immigration.

      1. Nelson   2 months ago

        So let me get this straight. The courts that said that naturalization means immigration are right and should be listened to, but the ones who repeatedly, over the course of 150+ years, supported birthright citizenship are wrong?

        Hmmm, I wonder why you hold such contradictory opinions?

        1. IceTrey   2 months ago

          No court has supported birthright citizenship.

          1. Nelson   2 months ago

            Every court has, including the Supreme Court.

  29. IceTrey   2 months ago

    There's TWO types of jurisdiction, territorial which makes everyone subject to the laws of the land and personal which is the authority your government has over you no matter where you are. The jurisdiction in the 14th is personal. It's pretty damn simple.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      Would you care to provide some support for your assertion? Maybe from one of the cases from the last couple centuries supporting birthright citizenship as has existed for its entire history?

      1. IceTrey   2 months ago

        Why would they put in a constitutional amendment that everyone within the borders of the country is subject to the laws of the land?

        1. Nelson   2 months ago

          That isn’t even a coherent argument, never mind factual support.

  30. IceTrey   2 months ago

    There's only Wong which has been misconstrued by the State Department to allow birthright citizenship.

  31. MoreFreedom   2 months ago

    I usually agree with Root, but this is an exception. If this case is so unconstitutional and settled, how did it get to the SCOTUS?

    It's been said for a long time: you can't have open borders and government welfare at the same time. It's also immoral to take money from citizens against their will via taxes, to support immigrants who didn't and think you're stupid to not use the government to steal from your neighbors for your benefit. Those are the types of people we don't want in the country if we want a civil country.

    1. Nelson   2 months ago

      “ If this case is so unconstitutional and settled, how did it get to the SCOTUS?”

      Because Trump attempted to violate the Constitution by forbidding birthright citizenship to those whom the Constitution had guaranteed it, so a court case (and a SCOTUS ruling) became necessary. That’s what happens when government tries to violate the Constitution.

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