Hegseth's 'Fog of War' Is No Excuse for Summarily Executing Suspected Drug Smugglers
Regardless of what the defense secretary knew or said about the September 2 boat attack, the forces he commands are routinely committing murder in the guise of self-defense.
"I did not personally see survivors," Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said at a Cabinet meeting on Tuesday. "The thing was on fire. It exploded, there's fire, there's smoke….This is called the fog of war."
Hegseth, who was referring to the newly controversial September 2 boat attack that inaugurated President Donald Trump's deadly campaign against suspected drug smugglers in the Caribbean and the eastern Pacific, may have been blowing some smoke of his own. It is hard to tell, given the dueling accounts of the circumstances in which two survivors of the initial attack were killed by a second missile. This is called the fog of politics, and it should not obscure the fundamental immorality and lawlessness of the anti-drug strategy that Trump and Hegseth are proudly pursuing.
Let's start with the facts on which everyone seems to agree. As The Intercept reported eight days after the attack, the first strike did not kill everyone on the boat, which was carrying 11 men whom Trump described as "narcoterrorists" affiliated with the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua. But the survivors were "killed shortly after in a follow-up attack." Last Friday, a Washington Post story added new details: After the first strike, two men "clinging to the smoldering wreck" were "blown apart in the water" by a second missile.
The dispute about the follow-up strike centers on two issues. If Adm. Frank M. Bradley, who was in charge of the SEAL Team 6 operation, knowingly and deliberately killed the survivors, both his order and the execution of it could qualify as war crimes. According to the Defense Department's law-of-war manual, "orders to fire upon the shipwrecked would be clearly illegal." And if, as the Post reported, Bradley acted in response to Hegseth's oral instruction to "kill everybody" on the boat, the operation arguably violated the rule against "declar[ing] that no quarter will be given" or "conduct[ing] hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors."
According to the Post, "commanders watched the boat burning on a live drone feed" and saw that "two survivors were clinging to the smoldering wreck." On the afternoon of September 2, Hegseth posted an edited 29-second clip of that footage on X, showing the initial missile strike. "I watched it live," he said during a Fox News interview the next day. "We knew exactly who was in that boat. We knew exactly what they were doing, and we knew exactly who they represented."
During Tuesday's Cabinet meeting, however, Hegseth said he saw only part of that live feed. "I didn't stick around for the hour and two hours, whatever, where all the sensitive site exploitation digitally occurs," he said. "I moved on to my next meeting. A couple of hours later, I learned that the commander [Bradley] had made the [second strike], which he had the complete authority to do."
Bradley "made the correct decision to ultimately sink the boat and eliminate the threat," Hegseth added. "It was the right call. We have his back."
That last statement is open to question. "I wouldn't have wanted that," Trump told reporters on Sunday. "Not a second strike." But Hegseth "said he did not order the death of those two men," Trump said, and "I believe him, 100 percent." According to the president, in other words, he would not have approved the second strike, and Hegseth had not done so either.
On Monday, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt reiterated that Hegseth issued no such order, then read a written statement that added: "President Trump and Secretary Hegseth have made it clear that presidentially designated narcoterrorist groups are subject to lethal targeting in accordance with the laws of war. With respect to the strikes in question on September 2, Secretary Hegseth authorized Admiral Bradley to conduct these kinetic strikes. Admiral Bradley worked well within his authority and the law, directing the engagement to ensure the boat was destroyed and the threat to the United States of America was eliminated."
That framing, the Post reported, left Pentagon officials "concerned that the Trump administration intends to scapegoat" Bradley. "This is 'protect Pete' bullshit," one unnamed "military official" told the Post. Other Pentagon sources complained that Leavitt's statement left the responsibility for the second strike "up to interpretation" and worried that the administration was "throwing us, the service members, under the bus."
Not so, Pentagon spokeswoman Kingsley Wilson implied during a press briefing on Tuesday. "The secretary has been very clear in every statement that we've released about these strikes, that they are presidentially directed," she said. "The chain of command functions as it should. And we make sure that [the opinions of] commanders on the ground…are taken into account, and they are able to tell us and make decisions if they…see things that need to be flagged. But at the end of the day, the secretary and the president are the ones directing these strikes. And any follow-on strikes, like those which were directed by Admiral Bradley, the secretary 100 percent agrees with."
Wilson described the Post's reporting as "totally fabricated" and "insanely false," complaining that the newspaper used "anonymous sources" who "probably have no idea what's going on" to "falsely attribute a quote" to Hegseth that "he never said." She added that "The New York Times stepped in and corrected the record," making it clear that the Post's article was "absolutely fake news."
In the story to which Wilson referred, which was published on Monday, the Times cited five unnamed "U.S. officials" who said Hegseth "ordered a strike that would kill the people on the boat and destroy the vessel and its purported cargo of drugs" but "did not specifically address what should happen if a first missile turned out not to fully accomplish all of those things." Those sources also said Hegseth's order "was not a response to surveillance footage showing that at least two people on the boat survived the first blast."
Contrary to Wilson's spin, that report does not show the Post's article was "absolutely fake news." The Post's sources, which it described as "two people with direct knowledge of the operation," did not say Hegseth explicitly ordered the second strike or even claim he was aware that the first strike had left two survivors. They said he had told Bradley that no one should be left alive, which they said Bradley understood to require the second strike.
That account does not let Bradley (or his underlings) off the hook. "Members of the armed forces must refuse to comply with clearly illegal orders to commit law of war violations," the Defense Department's manual notes, specifically citing "orders to fire upon the shipwrecked" as one example. But if Hegseth did in fact indicate that Bradley should "kill everybody" (which, contrary to Wilson's gloss, the Post presented as a paraphrase rather than a direct quote), he also bears responsibility for the consequences.
The House and Senate armed services committees, which launched investigations in response to the Post's report, presumably will delve into these issues. According to the Post, Trump administration officials previously told members of Congress that "the 'double-tap,' or follow-on strike, was intended to sink the boat and remove a navigation hazard to other vessels—not to kill survivors." Legislators may be newly skeptical of that explanation, especially given the justification that administration officials have offered more recently.
Although Trump initially said he "wouldn't have wanted" the second strike, the White House and the Pentagon are now saying there was nothing unlawful about it. According to Leavitt, the second strike aimed to "ensure the boat was destroyed and the threat to the United States of America was eliminated." Wilson likewise said "the decision to restrike the narcoterrorist vessel was made by Admiral Bradley, operating under clear and longstanding authorities to ensure the boat was destroyed and the threat to the United States was eliminated."
Leavitt and Wilson were not talking about "a navigation hazard to other vessels." They were talking about "the threat to the United States" posed by the transportation of illegal drugs. That threat, they maintain, requires firing on any given boat believed to be carrying drugs until it is completely destroyed and sunk—a practice that is pretty hard to distinguish from "conduct[ing] hostilities on the basis that there shall be no survivors."
That result is not merely incidental to the goal of interdicting drugs. Trump conflates drug smuggling with violent aggression, saying it amounts to "an armed attack against the United States" that justifies a lethal military response. He and Hegseth have repeatedly bragged about summarily executing suspected drug smugglers instead of intercepting and arresting them.
So far, that policy has killed 83 people in 21 attacks on vessels that posed no military threat. Contrary to Trump's assertion of an "armed conflict" with "narcoterrorists," this violence is notably one-sided, and it raises concerns that go far beyond the question of whether a particular attack went too far. The entire campaign goes too far because it trashes due process and obliterates the distinction between civilians and combatants. The question of exactly what Hegseth knew or said in this one case seems beside the point when the forces he commands are routinely committing murder in the guise of self-defense.
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"routinely committing murder" is subjective where legally committing murder is not.
Prima facie video evidence shows probable cause of routine murder in each of these boat attacks. A matter of criminal law is being handled as an act of war. Instead of searches, arrests, and charges, we have summary execution of capital punishment for what would be, even if proven, non-capital offenses. The burden of proof then shifts to the defense (in this case, Department of Defense) to establish why the attacks are lawful. If there is some "subjective" element here, the burden is on the defense to prove it.
This is false. Cite, reality.
I do love how you all are still going with the innocent fishermen angle even after AP had their families admitting to running drugs.
First, it doesn't matter what they were carrying. The allegations are irrelevant because there is no "war." Presidents cannot declare war, only Congress can. Thus, the rules of war do not apply here. And if they did apply, this is still a violation. Second, the boats that do carry drugs, and it's not all of them, they are carrying cocaine to offshore freighters headed to Europe, which has nothing to do with the US. Third, Venezuela does not produce and distribute fentanyl as Trump claims. They produce cocaine. Fourth, Trump is a demented buffoon.
TDS strikes again.
TDS - Truth Determination Syndrome. Finally realizing the truth - Trump is a murderer. That's the truth.
Again, you seem to be missing the actual relevant arguments. They aren't at war, correct. They are a declared FTO. They operate under different rules of engagement. Rules and laws passed over the last few decades.
The fact you dont even understand the basics of the discussion shows your own ignorance.
You even try the retarded talking point regarding production of fentanyl instead of just transport. Smugglers smuggle goods they dont produce dummy.
Here is what trump actually said.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLvrkS02_u4
And youre too retarded to look up the actual truth instead of repeating retarded leftist talking points.
Remember under Bush when you wanted young brown terrorists captured and sent to Gitmo for Republicans to buttfuck???
Just because Trump declares them foreign terrorist organizations does not, in fact, make them actually terrorist. There's a difference between the drug cartels vs., say, al Qaeda, ISIS and such. Al Qaeda and ISIS or Hamas or Hezbollah deliberately commit acts of violence upon the civilian population to enforce their rule over them, to implement dictatorship, theocratic ones. Whereas, if the cartels ever commit a "terrorist" act, say, threaten or murder a government official, they do it to thwart the government's rule over them, for the government to NOT crack down on them i.e. to thwart power, not exercise it. The cartels are primarily producers of products rather than political or violent organizations.
Also, the drug cartels have not attacked the U.S., certainly not militarily or by terrorist attack against the U.S. or on U.S. territory. So, no, the drug cartels are in fact not terrorist organizations that attacked the U.S.
NM Dave is a TDS-addled, lying, steaming pile of shit.
TDS - Truth Determination Syndrome: recognition of the truth, in fact.
Everything you said is complete bullshit. GTFO.
So you will stake your life that no chemicals involved in the creation of Fentanyl enter or exit Venezuela?
Yes there is massive amounts of activity in the Caribbean and not all is heading to the USA. What factual evidence do you have regarding the boats blown up that they were not heading to the USA?
Have you had an increase in TDS lately, potentially because your income has been crushed by these terrorists and drug boats being blown up?
The U.S. is approx. 1,000 miles from Venezuela at the closest point. Those boats were small short-range boats not likely able to reach the U.S.
Yes.
Truth Detection Syndrome.
Truth Determination Syndrome.
Truth Defense Syndrome.
Trump Deconstruction Syndrome
Truth Discernment Syndrome
A good source for verifying what this Dave says are the League of Nations Advisory Committee minutes. Therein you will find graphs and government experts pretending to believe cocaine is addictive while simultaneously admitting it isn't. Only opiate addicts are hospitalized for treatment of withdrawal sickness. TR demanded the Hague ban opium so China would quit boycotting 'Murrican trade goods in 1905. Then in 1908 pugilist Jack Johnson whupped a white boxer. To republicans this proved not only that Johnson had to be coked, but also that cocaine turns blacks into bulletproof monsters who seduce white girls is still convincing.
>>Prima facie video evidence shows probable cause of routine murder in each of these boat attacks
does it? again we're with the subjective here you don't get to be on the jury
Their defense may well be that Texas Chainsaw Massacre quote. That or the shrink in Alice's Restaurant.
Not even close to what happened. A strike and second strike on an object is entirely justified within the rules of war to destroy it and if there is collateral damage then there is. People commenting on this shit should know what the fuck they are talking about. Hegseth didn't order anything and even the NYT is calling bullshit on this. Just another outrage of the week from Dems that have nothing else.
Ackshully the Dem leadership has pledged your life, treasure and sacred honor to defend the 1960 Revealed Faith that Sharknado Armageddon will soon destroy the planet unless egotistical capitalism is crushed underfoot. Anyone capable of passing a High School physics exam can discredit this and its current mutation requiring a ban on electrical energy. So Dems HAVE to lose no matter what for lack of stupid enough voters. Look at 2016!
https://libertariantranslator.wordpress.com/2017/06/09/soviet-anthropomorphic-climate-change-1960/
Your comment is prima facie evidence that you're a troll. The video is prima facie evidence of the military doing their legal duty to target armed narco terrorist threats.
There's no armed "narcoterrorist" threats. Show a reference to any "narcoterrorist" attack upon the U.S.
It is true that the Venezuelan military is doing what it can to repel foreign armed prohibitionist invaders. Most Americans fought the same enemy from 1920 through 1933. But by using the League of Nations, then the UN, as catspaws to foist prohibitionist coercion on South America, the U.S. crippled those budding economies in their cribs. No economy can flourish where overwhelming invaders have imposed laws making production and trade into crimes, then perpetrating war crimes for which Nuremberg trial courts executed totalitarians back when the Non-Aggression Proposal was first written down by Ayn Rand.
If everything happened in international waters, who would actually be the "prosecution" in a case like this?
If it's just handled under UCMJ, the JAG corps could easily come up with some pretext as to why the trial has to be carried out in a classified manner, and the whole thing could be sort of declared "over" without much of anything actually being done.
I suspect that more than 60-70% of what Team 6 does in any given month is either an actual training exercise, or something that's probably illegal wherever it's happening and is logged in the records as a training exercise. Especially when they're operating under the auspices of CIA with any kind of regularity. Wouldn't be that surprising if 25-35% of what they're tasked with doing could be easily spun into something that would violate the laws of not only where they're operating, but of some US statute as well.
Not to justify this particular instance, but this country often has a lot of less than savory things that someone in authority decides need to be made to happen. For the really illegal stuff, the CIA most likely uses various (probably non US-based) PMC companies; the book "Zero Footprint" is an interesting read, and supposedly something of a memoir by a former SBS Marine and covert ops contractor who claims to have been in Bengazi, Libya the afternoon before the attack on the US consulate (and has something of an explanation about why the attack likely happened).
When the soi disant new Mohammed took over Mecca with assault rifles, Saudis assured the world there was nothing to see here, folks. Right away arson and raids on two US embassies provided distractions obviating any need to even repeat the lie. The Trumpanzee court may rule decisively that the U.S. invasion of Panama never happened, and that Venezuela declared war on the Yew Ess. After all, they did throw brickbats at Tricky Dick Nixon...
It's interesting that Jake went from accusing Hegseth of a war crime to "whether or not". Quite a shift. No where are orders to "summarily murder people". This story is just another Russia Russia Russia against a guy the left hates because he is blowing up all their DEI in the military.
He just wanted an anti-Trump headline knowing that is all some people read. Then he covers his ass in the article so that if it hits the fan he has it to point at to say he's being fair and balanced.
^^^
You.
Still.
Have.
No.
Evidence.
So,
S
T
F
U
Why would evidence matter at this point? You are going to defend Team Trump no matter what. Even if they did commit literal war crimes.
There you are, Mr-TDS-totalitarian. Knew it was coming.
Hes had a lot more energy posting here since EBT was restored.
It’s all his morbidly obese ass has got.
“Why would evidence matter at this point?”
Haha, Lying Jeffy just told on himself for the second time today.
If you strip my comment out of context and then use it in a dishonest attempt to smear me, then sure.
The context is you just admitted evidence doesn’t matter Lying Jeffy, lmao. Thanks!
Full context:
Why would evidence matter at this point? You are going to defend Team Trump no matter what. Even if they did commit literal war crimes.
Evidence doesn't matter to damikesc because he's going to defend Trump no matter what. When in context, that is plainly the meaning of what I am communicating.
But because you are a liar and weirdly obsessed with me, you will strip the context away in order to make it appear as if that I am claiming that evidence doesn't matter to me. Which is a false claim.
Nah, it’s clear to me evidence doesn’t matter to you and you just admitted it.
Just like you admitted you’re never going to answer my question about the ex JAGS, after spending the last few days setting conditions for me before you'd answer.
Getting caught red handed twice in the same day Lying Jeffy. It’s great!
No Fatfuck, evidence doesn’t matter because your fat ChiCom owned ass will attack Trump no matter what.
And you’re wrong anyway. It doesn’t matter how many bears come out of how many trunks.
Relax. Anyone with a lick of sense has long since muted that moron.
you are smearing yourself, asshole. Just stop
These MAGAtrash cultists can't be reasoned with. And yet we try. So who are the fools? lol
Nothing says reason like admitting evidence doesn’t matter.
Pushing leftist narratives isnt reason dumbfuck. Lol.
A clear case of PDS- Rand has posted the Coast Guard response to his questions on X. They interdicted over 200 suspicious boats in the Caribbean last year, seizing lotsa drugs, but sinking none and killing no one.
The interesting thing is that a fifth were found to be running nothing , and some were, God bless them, running rum, to avoid taxation without representation.
If we take the disinterested view that 80 % of go fast boats run drugs, then a fifth of Hegseth's 80 Southern Spear kills weren't even collateral.
Maduro has turned Venezuela into ChiCom client state. Among other problems. So this isn’t the same as Colombian cartel interdictions.
But you don’t care. All that matters is that you attack Trump.
Or has the U.S. driven Venezuela to Communist China for protection from the U.S.?
A non sequitur to what I stated.
Likewise you make even false claims even in your response. Not having anything at time if interception doesnt mean they never had anything dummy.
We have videos of boats tossing their transport when spotted.
Likewise if you actually cared about the truth you would know for each of these boats there was confirmation of drugs prior to departure by people observing the launches. This has come ojt already and you simply ignore it.
It doesn't matter if there was confirmation of drugs. Those boats did not pose a lethal threat to anyone so as to rightly justify use of lethal force against them, regardless if Trump could get away with it.
Doesn't matter if there was confirmation of drugs. Rightfully, the drugs should be legalized.
NM Dave is a TDS-addled, steaming, lying pile of shit.
True, but you need to use more vicious and unique responses if you want to make him feel bad. Change it up, and look for ways to really get under his skin, or in Jeffy’s case, blubber.
TDS - Truth Discernment Syndrome
TDS - Truth Discernment Syndrome
VERY good point. Arguing with mystics is a fool's mission, but debating them before witnesses exposes a lot of fraud.
So you ascribe mystical powers to us? Do you see me as a 12th level wizard or something?
1) you can't kill them because we aren't at war.
2) war crimes.
Pick a lane.
We haven’t been at war since WW2.
Wrong, you just saying so doesn’t make it true. And history doesn’t back you up on this.
Thank you, Mr. Robespierre.
Funny. We wanted to do this in the Caribbean in the 80's. The rules were in place that would have allowed us to do it, but, we couldn't get approval. We used to watch the druggies toss bales off of ships to the speed boats. The clowns on the boats used to flip us off because they knew we couldn't do anything. This was long before Trump. If I'd had an M-60 in the door I could have smoked dozens of drug boats.
In 2010 there was a certain memo drafted by White House Counsel on behalf of the Obama Administration who had just used a drone strike to kill a US Citizen (who was listed on the terrorist "kill list"/threat matrix) and his 16-year old son (who most likely was not on that list, but also would have birthright citizenship), whose rights under the 4th, 5th, and 6th amendments which were at the very least "theoretically" violated by the extrajudicial killing.
That memo was very much similar to the the "W" era "torture memo" which had the left (and some of the right) pretty ripshit for several months and got a lot of ink in the MSM, except that instead of allowing for waterboarding of "irregular" combatants who were fighting on behalf of groups which weren't signatories to the Geneva Conventions, this memo stated that the CinC has the authority to order the military or CIA to carry out a death sentence against anyone designated as a "terrorist" even if that person happens to be a US Citizen. When the existence of the memo leaked into some degree of public exposure in 2013, Sen Rand Paul caried out an active filibuster of the US Senate floor for something like 14 hours or more, and the only attention paid by the MSM (who was fully invested in seeing to it that Obama made it through his presidency "without any significant scandal") was to wonder openly "what's the libertarian nutjob all worked up about this time?" Rumor has it that there was something of a "compromise" made by the administration, who made the use of that authority by the Commander in Chief contingent upon a decision by the President that such authority was truly warranted in the particular instance at hand (which for those scoring along at home, really changes nothing about the addition of the authority of the Executive to order the murder of a US Citizen so long as a few particular "magic words" are invoked, and possibly committed to writing on some deeply classified document).
A lot of leftist reporters seem intent on the idea that the invocation of this authority by trump is somehow entirely without precedent, because they've either remained willfully ignorant of its origins under St Barack the Infallible, or because the knowledge of that incident has been dropped into a "memory hole" somewhere along the way. The reality is that trump didn't need to invent it in this case (not to imply that he'd be morally or ethically above it if it hadn't already been on file), and the designation of the cartels as "terrorist" organizations along with the increasing use of the term "narco-terrorist" around the context of thsese strikes is an indicator of where they're claiming to have derived this particular authority.
But TDS does NOT require evidence. It exists without a heartbeat or EEG.
First - There is NO DIFFERENCE between this and any other military action when war has not been declared.
Second - The fact that it keeps coming up is evidence of TDS and obvious author bias to be ignored (unless you are totalitarians like NARC or Chem Jackass).
Third - Who gives a shit? We know damn well what these ass-munchers are doing. Only an idiot calls them fishermen or innocent.
Find an actual, incremental Libertarian thing to worry about like deficit spending, social spending, infringements to the Bill of Rights against actual citizens (which blowing up criminals in drug boats is NOT), government overreach against CITIZENS.
You're right. There is zero libertarian concern about the government murdering innocent civilians who happen to be foreigners. After all, True Libertarians agree that only citizens have rights.
Maybe inventing several hypotheticals will clear things up?
Lying Jeffy has a plethora of ways he’s dishonest. This is just one of them.
Wait till he finds out there are bears on those boats.
In politics jurisdiction has a lot to do with enforcement of rights. Today we are witnessing deadly attacks against a neighboring country whose citizens once threw brickbats at a Nixon motorcade. That is piracy and terrorism, hence violations of individual rights. Republicans did this 22MAR1929 when the Coast Guard sank the schooner "I'm Alone" in the middle of the Gulf of Mexico. Canada sued for damages and collected. The dry killers quietly signed the Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea they now violate.
Sure, but nobody has really been intereseted in a war on the northern border since 1814.
If the endgame here is to manufacture a conflict between the US and Maduro as a pretext for a "regime change", the settlement talks might be somewhat less cordial. After all, most edifices of what we sometimes refer to as "international law" have, over the years, become fairly dependent on US muscle as their enforcement mechanism, and that gives us something of a de-facto immunity similar to how cops can "fix" parking tickets when and if they choose to, even if they're not assigned to anything close to parking enforcement. Not saying it's right or that it's moral, but it's the reality on the ground; nobody involved in these strikes is likely to face any kind of meaningful prosecution from any authority outside of the US government (which ordered the attack in the first place).
Innocent civilians just cruising through international waters with a $100 boat and $75,000 in motors carrying bales of drugs. Nothing to see here.
Rightfully, the drugs should be legalized.
These are the musings of a child. The administration has a track record of lying and so until we see evidence they were drug traffickers, much less "terrorists" they should be in the hot seat. But even if they were, can we now start bombing anyone with drugs on their boat? I'm willing to bet any number of billionaire yachts have ample supplies of drugs (and underaged girls being trafficked). You want to condone bombing that stuff? And if a couple of guys were clinging to burned wreckage why not just send in a boat to pick them up? Getting intel on them would have been a good way of rolling back a narco-terroist organization. At the very least, hover a drone and wait til their narco-terrorist pals come to save them and then capture them too. So you know it was all lies and Rambo cosplaying by DEI hire Hegseth.
TDS - Truth Discernment Syndrome.
Government overreach against ANYONE.
JS;dr
VD;dr. VD (Venereal Disease) is some BAD shit! Go see the Dr. if you've got the VD!!! THAT is why I say VD;dr.!!!
(Some forms of VD also cause bona fide mental illness… THINK about shit! VD is NOTHING to "clap" about!)
That one is muted too...
The author's name has become a trigger for general contempt. Such a donkey!
Could be a lesson, IF... But his mouth and fingers work much better than his eyes and ears.
So now Pete didn't say the thing, but it doesn't matter because he did the thing, except that he didn't do the thing, someone else did the thing, but saying the thing was totally bad even though no one can corroborate anyone saying the thing, but it isn't about saying the thing, it is about doing the thing, the thing that may or may not be illegal, the second thing though, not the first thing?
Fog is right...
We will need to have Nuremberg trials or something to deal with MAGA crimes when real Americans take our country back.
Was boring when maddow said this too.
You have a really weird obsession with Maddow. You have a thing for old lesbians or something?
We need to start holding you traitors accountable. You have proven time and again you wont accept responsibility for all the problems you caused. “But der! Dat was da democrats!” Real Americans are fucking fed up.
Even your questions are boring. Can you stop being boring? Is this a Portland thing?
You have a raging case of TDS. Fuck off and die, asswipe.
TDS - Truth Discernment Syndrome.
"...Real Americans are fucking fed up..."
As if a lying lefty asswipe like you knew any. Fuck off and die.
The essence of conservatism.
KKK, if we start holding traitors accountable, you’re dead.
Pray that never happens.
lol. You called Matt Shea a “patriot!”
You have 2 options:
Admit you were wrong and start kissing our ass.
Or be annihilated.
How do you propose to annihilate half the country?
Seek help jacob.
See, presidential declarations transforms individuals into terrorists. And we all know terrorists don't deserve trials or juries, just summary execution. Therefore all the missile strikes are legit. Case closed.
This type of power could never ever ever be misused by some future president in an appalling way. Oh no no no.
chemjeff radical individualist 5 years ago
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Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren't supposed to be.
Huh. I'm surprised you didn't throw in some quip about "bears in trunks" as well to your non-sequitur.
Pointing out your standards. Trespassing as a citizen is a capital offense. Drug smuggling by foreign cartels is not.
These are your principles. Deal with it dumbass.
I do love how simple truths cause jeff to shut the fuck up.
JizzeAzz, the only time you don’t talk is when a big black cock is in your mouth. 😉
In his defense, isn't an IQ above an average Somali required to actually HAVE a principle?
If there's a foreigner criminal to defend and an American to murder you are all-in. WTF is wrong with you?
No, you fat faggot, carrying out terrorist activities makes them terrorists.
Is he just gonna right this same story every day? I mean what? It doesn't even matter if he's right or not. Point taken, let's move on.
But of course "moving on" is what one side of the political spectrum is desperately trying to avoid. Because this is the one story where they think maybe they can gain some yardage, and everything is gonna result in a tackle for a loss.
Isn't it just awful for a libertarian magazine to try to hold people in power accountable when they're Republicans?
No no, the primary goal here should be to do everything possible to cover up for Republican misdeeds in order to ally with them to destroy the Left. All of the war crimes and horrible behavior from Team Red should be dutifully ignored as long as there is a single leftist out there preaching Marxism.
In my lifetime communists have preached unilateral disarmament and Sharknado warmunism. I have met maybe three who had read a page of Karlos Marx.
Libertarian magazine? Where?
Yes. Libertarian magazine, as much as you dislike it.
shittydave knows all about righting
Are you cranky because the attendants at your assisted living center haven’t come to change your diapers yet Hank?
JS;dr
Huh. Remember when there was so much concern here about Hunter Biden sitting on the board of Burisma, when he had no experience about anything that the company did, really just there to peddle influence on the company's behalf before his famous dad? So glad that Trump is now in charge, where things like that don't happen anymore.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-administration-hands-multi-million-dollar-deal-to-trump-jr-company/ar-AA1RDGu3
Thank heavens we are finally rid of the Biden Crime Family, replaced with the True Patriotic Trump Hero Family! Plus, who knew that Don Jr. was such an astute scholar about magnets? He is such the Renaissance Man!
While we do not know for certain if, or how, the president may have influenced this loan,
Fuck off lying Jeff. Do you even read the shit you post?
Texas Guinan would surely say "Hello Suckers" at a GOP convention.
Yeah, that’s the same as Burisma…….
FFS, it’s mostly insinuation, and cribbed from The Daily Beast. So therefore this story has no credibility.
You’re such a desperate ChiCom dupe. And so worthless.
"the forces he commands are routinely committing murder in the guise of self-defense."
Levying unfounded accusations can bring the perpetrator to account if they are not careful. Lawsuits are real.
No, it won't. It's freedom of speech to criticize government and Trump.
Oh, puhleeze ! First of all the individuals running drugs in fast boats on the open ocean are not soldiers. They are not part of any nation's military. They do not wear uniforms. They have no identification and always hide their identities. As such, they are not protected by the Geneva Convention on War. Secondly, if a boatload of drugs and thugs is a legitimate target for a missile strike and the boat and its cargo are not destroyed by the first strike, there is no legal or ethical reason why it should not be subject to a second strike to complete the destruction. Thirdly, in WWII the US navy attacked Japanese troop ships enroute from the home islands to Okinawa, Tinian, Saipan and other islands. Those ships were fired upon and sunk if possible and survivors in the water were strafed by our aircraft. Rescuing survivors has never been a requirement for any military unit. It is primarily a means of gathering intelligence. It is not some kind of universal practice set down in some "Code of Conduct". My prediction is that the groups fielding these fast boats will shortly begin including hostages on board to act as human shields. They have no conscience and we need not shed tears for their demise.
The whole point of TR summoning a Hague Convention was to declare Filipinos who shoot back at armed invaders terrorists not in uniform. That meant they could be tortured and executed without trial. We are witnessing a continuation of his party's policies.
Regardless, they're not military and not posing any violent threat. Therefore, killing them is murder, at least morally so, even if there is no jurisdiction to prosecute the perpetrators.
I suspect Hegseth is a dope smuggler. Why else would he go to such lengths to drive up the price of those drugs?
You also shit your Depends and are extremely senile.
Image Democrats murdering suspected criminals because fuck you that’s why.
Principals, not principles.
Like when you celebrated babbit being killed? Even defending the officer for doing so? Need your quote again?
Or do you mean democrats celebrating Charlie kirks murderer and you couldn't even criticize them?
Stop the ste!
The last words of Ashtray Babbitt that will inspire a new generation of patriots!! Gee, I wonder what she meant by “ste”?? 😉
You remind me of a lefty crying about George Floyd.
Poor spotty hates leftist hypocrisy getting called out.
Now explain your comparison. This ought to be retarded.
Ashli Babbit being killed was wrong. Those people being killed on the drug boats is wrong. They're both wrong.
“Principals, not principles”
Yes, we know that’s your motto, and words you live by.
They shouldn't have been having weddings in boats.
Maybe he can switch to drone striking NGO employees so Sullum and the rest of the leftist retards can excuse it like they did for Biden, or execute a few Americans like Obama.
Or assassinate a little American girl and 9 of her little friends like Trump did. We only lost one SEAL in the operation so Trump considered it a success because she called Trump a “poop head” and so she had to be obliterated! ????
It's been reported that the boat didn't sink and the two men got back in the boat and were in contact with other cartel members who could have come and salvaged the drugs. I've seen many videos of US forces where wounded combatants are killed. It happens alot. Also end drug prohibition and the problem goes away.
But when Obama was president you wanted these people captured and sent to Gitmo so Hastert and Foley could buttfuck the young brown ones. Are you now worried about AIDS??
Should we arrest the guy that ordered this?
https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/02/19/wedding-became-funeral/us-drone-attack-marriage-procession-yemen
Trump is using tools from a toolbox he inherited from previous presidents. Venezuela might be the new Panama. Noreiga anyone?
Bush took out multiple wedding parties…in one instance multiple rockets were fired over several minutes and the bride got to see all the children die first before she was eventually killed. It was the original Red Wedding!! 😉
""The thing was on fire. It exploded, there's fire, there's smoke….This is called the fog of war.""
The drunken wife-beater Smegseth doesn't even know what "fog of war" means, evidently.
You’re such a pathetic Marxist cunt.
Did you know that?
You’re such a pathetic Marxist cunt.
(d) none of the above
It amuses me that you paid Reason $25 or whatever the subscription was for the privilege of showing you're an apoplectic gas-bag and general fuckwit.
Poor SRG2, so Marxist, yet so reluctant to admit it. Deep down you know you want to.
Oh, and I’m far too awesome to need a laid subscription.
It means inexact information. Like the fact youre all basing opinions on already debunked information.
Americans don't really need "an excuse." They're fine with summarily executing drug runners either way.
Just like we will be fine with summarily executing freedom hating, pedo enabling papists.
This is not a line you want to cross AT. There’s a reason I have been warning you that we have you outnumbered and outgunned.
You are on the side that is harming children. The American public knows this. Your lies and bigotry will not save you. It is YOU that will be dragged from a truck.
“Just like we will be fine with summarily executing freedom hating, pedo enabling papists.”
So turn yourself in so we can get rid of you. Bring Shrike and Jeffy too.
And we’re not the ones trying to sexualize kindergarten students or transition tweens behind their parents backs. Thats all you.
You’re the one defending papists and Mormons!
We are going to cut your fucking head off… AND NO ONE WILL CARE!!!
God bless Thomas creech!!!
Wait a minute... Two things?
Do you believe the left has the right right outgunned? That is laughable.
And you're referring to the Thomas Creech who translated ancient works into English and not the serial killer who confessed to 42 murders... right?
Patriotic Americans have MAGA outnumbered and outgunned.
You aren’t even a real American, KKK.
He supports the serial killer who murdered my uncle back in the 70’s, yes. Because democrats are such decent caring people.
Poor KAR.
Fuck you and your god damn pedo enabling cracker god.
Hahahaha!!!! KKK, you’re such a fucking retarded clown. And probably a child raping deviant, like your fellow travelers Shrike and Jeffy.
As Jeffy is CEO of NAMBLA, maybe he can get you a free membership.
Language.
Marxists, like KKK here, should be put down. All of them.
No Marxist, especially KKK, has a right to be exist.
Come to Portland you fucking redneck pussy?
Too many pinko douchebags. Like you. And don’t worry, at the rate you’re going, Trump will have Portland under martial law very soon. Then you can show federal troops what a badass democrat you are.
Conservatives are. Being bloodthirsty is part of being a conservative. There's higher level of bloodthirstiness amongst conservatives than amongst the general population. Most people oppose the killings - https://www.reuters.com/world/us/just-29-americans-support-us-military-killing-drug-suspects-reutersipsos-poll-2025-11-14/
58% of Republicans supported it (with 15% who didn't answer) - and they're the only voices that matter. Nobody cares what the Democrats have to say anymore because they're the most willfully ignorant people in America. (They can't even tell which bathroom people should use anymore.)
Also, the math on that "poll" is grossly skewed. You can see plain as day how/where they got the "29%."
Protip Bruce: any poll that doesn't tell you how many of their sample group (in this case, 1200) fall into which category, then it's garbage. They intentionally didn't tell you that here, meaning they're Fake Newsing you.
Not a Trump fan, but also don’t have TDS. He won two elections, he gets to serve that’s how I see it.
His administration is clearly much better than his first term, at least in getting things done. Typical of 2nd term presidencies, it’s a lot easier to get things done on the diplomacy side than trying to get a bill past the filibuster.
I thought his only saving grace might be his lack of foreign intervention shown in his first term. Bombing the Iranian nuke sites should have been a one-off. I’m wrong, and admit it. He’s flexing military capabilities in ways that aren’t necessary or peaceful.
At this point, his saving grace is that he seems to want to be peacemaker.
As a Libertarian, I like his talk of ending income tax for tariffs.
Otherwise, I have a hard time getting behind the rest of his agenda.
I think there’s no there there regarding the missile strikes against the drug boats. I just don’t want it to be happening at all.
I love the idea of the default no longer being that I have to account to the IRS for every dime I earn or spend.
In war, if you torpedo a ship and it doesn’t sink, you hit it again. If an M-1 hits a T-72 and it’s not destroyed, you shoot it again. Some cry that these drug runners are civilians but so were the Japanese merchant seamen in WWII. Others will say we should arrest them and put them on trial. I say we should treat them like Obama treated terrorists during the Global War On Terror. When we found them in the U.S., we arrested them. When we found them in Afghanistan, Iraq or even Yemen, we killed them. Simple.
Yep. And our military has no arrest powers.
Japanese merchant seamen in WWII who we torpedoed were part of an imperial power that attacked the U.S. and killed our sailors. The drug cartels are not military organizations and have not attacked the U.S. The cartels have not forced anyone to use drugs. Prohibition is an infringement of individual rights and should be ended. In the absolute moral sense, killing the people on those drug boats is murder whether there is legal jurisdiction to prosecute Trump and the perpetrators or not.
Reading some of the comments here, I'm struck by the bloodthirstiness of so many conservatives. Scarey.
Prohibition is to protect the biggest drug cartel, the CIA. "It's not personal, it's business", by govt. means, initiation of deadly violence.
Soon, the US Empire will be challenged by the American population. I hope I live to see the end of government by fear, violence, fraud. The only alternative is government by choice, non-violence, openly arrived at contracts locally negotiated by all. The tech is here, let's use it.