Immigrants and Radicals Have the Same Free Speech Rights as Everyone Else
Campus protests against Israel have revived debates over the limits of First Amendment protections.

Can foreigners legally residing in the United States be tossed out of the country for engaging in controversial or even vile speech? Court cases suggest the answer is "no" and uphold the idea that free speech is a right adhering not only to Americans but also to those just visiting. On Tuesday, a federal judge in Massachusetts allowed a lawsuit against the Trump administration's deportation proceedings aimed at noncitizen anti-Israel college radicals to proceed on the grounds that the government is targeting protected speech in such a way that it chills the willingness of foreign university students and faculty at schools in this country to speak out about controversial issues.
Deportations Have a 'Chilling' Effect
Unlike some of the cases that have gone to court (such as that of Mohsen Mahdawi, whose release was ordered by a federal judge on Wednesday) American Association of University Professors v. Rubio doesn't revolve around the conduct of a particular individual. That means there's no grounds to debate whether a given graduate student or professor was engaged in speech alone or if that person crossed over into illegal conduct or support of a terrorist organization. In some cases, such as that of Rümeysa Öztürk, the government has alleged nothing beyond controversial speech. Instead, this case was brought by the American Association of University Professors, that organization's Harvard and New York University chapters, and the Middle East Studies Association alleging the "chilling" of noncitizen members' activities by federal policy.
In their lawsuit against the Trump administration's deportation policies, the plaintiffs allege that members of their organization "have, variously, taken down social media posts and previously published writing and scholarship, stopped assigning material about Palestine in class, withdrawn from a conference presentation, ceased traveling abroad for conferences, ceased engaging in political protest and assembly in which they previously participated, ceased teaching a course they previously taught, and foregone opportunities to write and speak at public events," among other abandoned activities out of fear that they might be targeted for deportation.
Trump Vowed To Punish Speech
Whatever one might think of campus protesters' often-noxious political opinions since October 7, their fears are grounded in reality. As pointed out in the case, President Donald Trump took office pledging in two executive orders to "combat anti-semitism" and "to prosecute, remove, or otherwise hold to account the perpetrators of unlawful anti-Semitic harassment and violence" as well as to protect citizens from aliens who "espouse hateful ideology."
In a related fact sheet, published January 30, the president vowed: "To all the resident aliens who joined in the pro-jihadist protests, we put you on notice: come 2025, we will find you, and we will deport you. I will also quickly cancel the student visas of all Hamas sympathizers on college campuses, which have been infested with radicalism like never before."
It's possible to agree with Trump's opinion of college campuses and the protests without endorsing the punishment of people who do nothing more than "espouse hateful ideology" or join in demonstrations of any sort without committing crimes against people or property. The government can't do that.
Noncitizens Have (Some) First Amendment Rights
"It is well established that noncitizens have at least some First Amendment rights," wrote Judge William G. Young of the U.S. District of Massachusetts. "Although case law defining the scope of noncitizens' First Amendment rights is notably sparse, the Plaintiffs have at least plausibly alleged that noncitizens, including lawful permanent residents, are being targeted specifically for exercising their right to political speech."
Based on the plaintiffs' allegations of chilled speech, and the Trump administration's very public efforts to target and remove noncitizens who study and work at U.S. universities while also engaging with controversial debates over Israel and Palestine or explicitly participating in protests, Young added: "First Amendment challenges may be brought against unwritten policies, and at this stage the existence of the policy the Plaintiffs allege is a factual issue on which this Court must draw all reasonable inferences in their favor."
The Trump administration argues that it's allowed to target loudmouth students and academics if they're not citizens, but "this Court cannot agree that this alleged conduct would be constitutional," Young continues. "The Public Officials' reliance on case law from the height of the second Red Scare era, such as Harisiades v. Shaughnessy, 342 U.S. 580 (1952), is misplaced, and this Court assumes instead that noncitizens lawfully present in the United States have at least the core rights protected by the First Amendment, chief among them the right to speak on political subjects at least where such speech poses no immediate threat to others."
As a result, the court allowed the plaintiffs to continue with their challenge to the deportation policy on First Amendment grounds and on a claim that it violates the Administrative Procedure Act. The judge turned away the plaintiffs' Fifth Amendment vagueness challenge. Overall, it was a victory for the organizations opposing the deportations.
'Certain Unalienable Rights'
As is always the case with free speech cases, it's necessary to separate opinions of what people say from considerations of their right to say it. The Declaration of Independence referred to "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." The First Amendment strictly specifies that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press." Both are rooted in the understanding that rights don't come from government but are inherent in individuals. The government must respect our rights whether or not it agrees with how we exercise them so long as we, in turn, respect others' equal rights.
In February, Eugene Volokh of the Hoover Institution and the UCLA School of Law wrote that "when it comes to aliens and immigration law, the First Amendment questions aren't settled" in a discussion about the constitutionality of deporting noncitizens for their speech. That may still be true, but cases like American Association of University Professors v. Rubio show at least some federal judges viewing First Amendment protections as universally applicable, which squares with American history.
Campus radicals have the same free speech rights as we all possess, even if they're just visiting.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
There are differences between moral, legal, and as-interpreted-by-courts rights.
I agree with moral, with the caveat that those rights work both ways: anyone who would deny to others the rights he claims for himself has forfeited those rights. Protestors who shout down speakers have forfeited their own right to free speech.
Legal rights are undefinable, since The Law is so malleable.
That brings us to "as interpreted by the courts" rights, which show the true colors of the Rule of Law -- transparent -- exposing the Rule of Men who interpret them. Recent interpretation is all over the map and cannot be pinned down. Due process is a good example. To most people, it means some vague concept of formal charges, a trial with a jury and defense lawyer, appeals, etc. To the courts interpreting the Constitution, it seems to only mean that some law established procedures, and those procedures were followed. If the law says an immigrant gets a hearing without a lawyer and that's all, then that's all he gets and due process has been followed.
The numbers work against any real due process. So many illegal immigrants came flooding in that to provide even genuine hearings to 10-20 million immigrants is impossible in any practical sense. Suppose half an hour each. That's 15 a day per hearing officer, 400 a year. You'd need 50,000 hearing officers plus bailiffs, hearing rooms, etc to process them all in one year. 5000 officers etc would take 10 years. Then there's the matter of all those deportation flights: 100 per flight means 200,000 flights, 800 a day for a year.
If Trump hadn't blown so much political capital on his incoherent tariffs, he might have been able to push through legislation to pay for all those hearings and flights. Now he's almost certain to lose the House in 2026, scotching any hope of paying for all those hearings and deportation flights, and unless he gets the court cases straightened out, he won't be able to shrink due process any further and make deportation cheaper.
"The numbers work against any real due process. So many illegal immigrants came flooding in that to provide even genuine hearings to 10-20 million immigrants is impossible in any practical sense."
This was the Biden Admin's plan, an untamable flood. We don't need hearings. Biden already let them all in illegally by his dereliction of duty of protecting USA borders. Trump is simply reversing that initial illegality.
Expedited removal requires no hearing.
The expedited removal process, created by the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996, is codified in INA § 235(b)(1). The statute permits the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to summarily remove aliens arriving at a designated U.S. port of entry (arriving aliens) "without further hearing or review" if they are inadmissible either because they (1) lack valid entry documents, or (2) tried to procure their admission into the United States through fraud or misrepresentation. INA § 235(b)(1) also authorizes—but does not require—DHS to extend application of expedited removal to "certain other aliens" inadmissible on the same grounds if they (1) were not admitted or paroled into the United States by immigration authorities and (2) cannot establish at least two years' continuous physical presence in the United States at the time of apprehension.
https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF11357
The law.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/235.3
Unless we DO something with the information we’re sharing here, it’s only academic.
Jews have been USING the financial proceeds from the satanic pyramid scheme of freemasonry for millennia to infiltrate, corrupt and co-opt non Jews to support their agenda.
It is obviously working for them. Look at their confidence that they will get away with it all, including this genocide in Gaza.
Simply sharing information isn’t stopping anything.
We do need to ACT! Physically in person, protesting, supporting, lobbying to make and prosecute laws against the corruption we all recognize. Jews are, our bribed governments are, against us.
We can’t ignore our own calls to action and expect to be successful.
Fuck off and die, Nazi sshit-bag.
DR ; rm
LOLOLOLOLOL
Is it possible to look any dumber?
With a Hitler mustache.
Refuted.
"Biden already let them all in illegally by his dereliction of duty of protecting USA borders."
Liar. Almost every illegal entrant was arrested. How else does one "protect borders"? But they could not be returned to Mexico because they weren't Mexican. And when they applied for asylum they ceased to be illegal. Trump broke the law by refusing to accept asylum applications at ports of entry. The problem is not illegal immigrants but illegal Trump.
"Liar. Almost every illegal entrant was arrested."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
They were detained, not arrested, in accordance with the requirements of INA. Do they not teach this at harvard?
Asylum is a sham. The exception that has swallowed the rule. It should be repealed, and if not, ignored.
Trump fixed the glitch……
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjQDP9KX6E
I don't understand why we consider foreign nationals to have US constitution rights. These are rights for the citizens of these United States, not foreign nationals whether here legally or not. As far as I know a foreign national has no right to bear arms whether here legally or not, I'm pretty sure the democrats would agree with that since they don't even think citizens of these United States have a right to bear arms. The state department should be able to tell any foreign nation it's time to go home and shouldn't even need a reason to do so. Even if I invite you in for tea, when I decide it's time for you to leave I should be able to just say goodbye and open the door for you, I shouldn't have to got to court to get you out of my home.
"he might have been able to push through legislation to pay for all those hearings and flights."
Biden and Lankford actually negotiated legislation to provide expedited reviews, and money to pay for them. Trump ordered the Republicans to kill the legislation. He wanted an issue to weaponize, not a solution.
" If the law says an immigrant gets a hearing without a lawyer and that's all, then that's all he gets and due process has been followed."
The Constitution provides an absolute right to a jury trial in criminal cases. Even when doing so will overwhelm the courts.
"So many illegal immigrants came flooding in "
Once you apply for asylum, you are legal. And the law provides for an absolute right to apply for asylum at a port of entry or once you are in the US, with few exceptions. Trump broke the law by refusing to accept asylum applications in his first term, and now he is deporting people who applied at ports of entry during Biden's term.
The problem isn't illegal immigrants. The problem is illegal Trump.
The problem is people abusing the asylum path because it allows a camel's nose under the tent situation, and the number of people claiming asylum is greater than the system's capacity to handle the amount. The asylum path was an ill-conceived notion that is a practical policy failure and suicidal to boot.
people abusing the asylum path
We don't know if a particular asylum application is "abusive" unless the application is first evaluated, right?
number of people claiming asylum is greater than the system's capacity to handle the amount
So, perhaps the government should expand the capacity to process asylum applications. Sound good to you?
This^
And Charlie Hall moved back into my Top 3 Retards on Reason.
That’s really saying something these days. And who do you consider most dishonest? I think MAPedo Jeffy is presently number one liar here.
Jeffy is probably King Liar, yes, but MollyGodiva reigns as Queen Overall Retard.
Molly = Tony, so yes.
Harvard grad Charlie hall!
Nothing you said is actually accurate. They can literally deny asylum claims at the border.
Biden and Lankford actually negotiated legislation to provide expedited reviews, and money to pay for them. Trump ordered the Republicans to kill the legislation. He wanted an issue to weaponize, not a solution
Trump didn't order anything. The bill was a farce that was rejected on its merits. It wasn't even required to be enforced by the President if he didn't feel like it.
The Constitution provides an absolute right to a jury trial in criminal cases. Even when doing so will overwhelm the courts.
Yeah, time to reject the demands of the Alinsky strategy.
Once you apply for asylum, you are legal.
No, you're in limbo. Especially considering the NGOs that taught these migrants the lies to spout to claim asylum.
#Libertariansforclowardpivenstrategy
It is amazing to constantly watch so called “libertarians” promoting 100 percent old Soviet land reform and a socialist welfare redistribution state for the west. At the very least a communist revolution, at worst anarchy or global cartel paramilitaries and ganglands barbarism.
"" He wanted an issue to weaponize, not a solution."'
This is why democrats never codified Roe v Wade when they had ample opportunity. It would have ended it as a political litmus test.
"The Constitution provides an absolute right to a jury trial in criminal cases. Even when doing so will overwhelm the courts."
And the law provides for incarceration while awaiting trial, either because the accused poses a risk to the public or is not likely to show up for that trial.
Trump decreased illegal migration at the borders by 95% or more by simply enforcing the the law. I don't know why your ilk keeps on bringing up half measures that deservedly failed because it would accomplished nothing in the long term and would fund remedies for crisis caused in the first place with criminal recklessness.
CA thought effectively legalizing theft under 1000 USD would actually lower crime and or result in equity. It didn't happen. Random and expensive incentive to stop crime is a waste of resources when the answer is simply to stop crime. The same applies to the border.
Most did not apply legally for asylum, and were never eligible for asylum under current international agreements of which the US is a party to. Also, it was never legal to apply through the CBP app. The administration simply ignored the law, as they often did.
But yeah, Trump is the lawless one for actually following the law. Or that’s what fags like you think.
I agree with moral, with the caveat that those rights work both ways: anyone who would deny to others the rights he claims for himself has forfeited those rights. Protestors who shout down speakers have forfeited their own right to free speech.
This reciprocity stems from an underlying good faith. Reason and modern libertarianism reject all of it out of hand. As a result, they have to be shown empirically that not all forms of speech and not all people are actually equal. That the idea that all men are created equal stems from and can only be held by people who have faith in that ideal and not everyone does.
This isn't exclusive to Christianity or a Christian Faith and a Christian Faith isn't required to grasp and hold it, the same holds true for any social or political belief since the days of pre-historic Indo-Europeans clubbing any stranger who wandered into 'their' territory, but Christianity birthed it into Enlightenment most conspicuously. An Enlightenment that Reason and others are actively rejecting.
It's really getting to be sarcasmic-style SSDD around this place: those *other* tribes who are deporting people, placing tariffs on goods, and failing to cut spending are clearly inferior tribes, but this group of radical individuals who literally identify by vague and even non-existent connections to a tribe that may or may not have existed and are screaming death threats in peoples' faces, *they* are what democracy, liberty, and The Constitution are really about.
Just abjectly and self-defeatingly retarded all the way down.
this group of radical individuals who literally identify by vague and even non-existent connections to a tribe that may or may not have existed and are screaming death threats in peoples' faces, *they* are what democracy, liberty, and The Constitution are really about.
You don't need a Constitution, a Bill of Rights, and thick law books to protect free speech rights for *popular* speech. You only really need it when the speech is unpopular. That's the point of having a right to free speech.
And it doesn’t apply to foreigners for the most part. But I get it, you despise citizenship.
“ There are differences between moral, legal, and as-interpreted-by-courts rights.”
No, there are only inalienable rights, which morality has no ability to remove. The courts, through due process of law, can suspend your rights for various legal infractions. Finally, all rights are adjudicated by the courts. There is no “the courts can’t stop me from taking away this person’s rights” option.
“ Protestors who shout down speakers have forfeited their own right to free speech.”
That’s not how rights work. They are inalienable; they cannot be taken from you. That’s the most fundamental aspect of rights.
The only way rights can be suspended by the government is through due process of law. If you don’t like that, take it up with the Constitution.
“ Legal rights are undefinable, since The Law is so malleable.”
They are quite easily definable. We have been doing it throughout our history. And the law is the exact opposite of malleable. It is interpreted and that interpretation becomes part of the definition of what the law means, often using the Constitution as source material. Laws become more, not less, defined over time.
Your disagreement with a law doesn’t make it malleable, it just makes it something you don’t like.
“ That brings us to "as interpreted by the courts" rights”
Also known as Constitutional rights. That’s why we have a Supreme Court, to adjudicate when a Constitutional issue arises and make an interpretation of the Constitution and how it interacts with the law in question. How else would you have a difference in opinion about a law or the Constitution handled?
Your problem is that you want laws to mean what you want them to, depending on the outcome you desire.
“ To most people, it means some vague concept of formal charges, a trial with a jury and defense lawyer, appeals, etc.”
Perhaps if “most people” only have the vaguest and loosest understanding of the legal process. People here aren’t so engrossed in TikTok that they fail to understand how the rule of law works and what it entails.
“ If the law says an immigrant gets a hearing without a lawyer and that's all, then that's all he gets and due process has been followed.”
Without a lawyer? No, I don’t believe that is allowed in any court. Everyone has the right to counsel. And, of course, if you ignore the appellate process through which aspects of the case can be challenged and fundamental rights can be asserted.
One-and-done isn’t due process or the rule of law. Your problem seems to be that due process is hard work and there’s no guarantee that the government will win. That’s a good thing, for those who are skeptical of government power.
“ The numbers work against any real due process.”
So your argument is that the Constitution can and should be ignored if there are a lot of cases? That’s the opposite of the rule of law. That’s dictatorship.
“ You'd need 50,000 hearing officers plus bailiffs, hearing rooms, etc to process them all in one year. 5000 officers etc would take 10 years.”
“And that’s an argument that we need more people in the immigration system, not that we should deny rights to people.
“ he won't be able to shrink due process”
And that is an excellent thing.
No, you are finessing the Birthright Citizenship question.
American Revolution-Era history confirms that American citizenship was founded on consent and allegiance, not on feudal birthright subjectship.
Reconstruction-Era debates and the Civil Rights Act of 1866, both of which tied birthright citizenship to full political allegiance.
Early Supreme Court decisions, including Elk v. Wilkins (1884), recognized that those owing allegiance to another power—including Native American tribes—fell outside the Clause’s protections.
Congressional practice, such as the 1924 Indian Citizenship Act, which granted citizenship by statute to Native Americans precisely because the Fourteenth Amendment had not done so.
====
THis is your cue to attack Kurt Lash, Thomas G West, and Edward J Erler....but legally you thereby lose your claim of a 'clear answer" , right
Not only is Biden guilty of treason but include Mayorkass and Harris as well.
All three are guilty of treason and dereliction of duty. Allowing millions of ILLEGAL ALIENS into the country on purpose to swell the Demoncrap voter rolls is a plot against the American people. It is treason, plain and simple.
ILLEGAL ALIENS have no rights and that includes gang bangers.
Round them all up and send them back.
As for those judges who deliberately harbor illegal aliens and gang bangers, we have a nice warm prison cell for you.
You obviously never read the Constitution.
The Constitution does not allow criminal gangs to sneak through our borders and terrorize neighborhoods, traffic drugs , rape and murder young women.
Time to declare open season on the gang bangers.
charlie is dead wrong to speak like that. If this column and others establish anything, anything at all, it is that there is no clear obvious answer as charlie (has he read the Constitution?) claims
They have different conditions due to their guest status. This is true of both visa and green card. Revocation of said status is administrative not criminal.
Why reason remains ignorant to these facts is a strange choice.
Dishonesty and bad faith pays the bills.
Like the CBS thing and the Twitter censorship Hunter Biden laptop issue they "No commented" into the memory hole; the law doesn't clearly allow it and even if the law weren't silent; government (and government-controlled media) support or even passive condoning of violent* disruptions of education centers would be the exact sort of act a failing democracy and/or rising, oppressive, religio-ethno state would engage in or undergo.
Out: We have always been at war with East Asia.
In: American College Campuses have always been a place to declare war with the Zionist ethnostate on behalf of the oppressed Palestinians.
*NB: I know I'm not even encroaching in fairly mainstream libertarian thought, in the immigrants' favor, when I say that I don't consider property crimes to be inherently violent... and I still consider these protests to be violent.
Revocation of said status is administrative not criminal.
THEN DON'T SEND THEM TO PRISON. You all truly love to have it both ways - demand low burdens of proof and nonexistent 'due process' because 'oh it's only a civil offense', but then turn around and treat them harshly, like sending them to prison, as if they had committed a criminal offense.
Garcia was imprisoned by his government, not Trump. The Trump deportation was in violation of a court order, the remedy for which is that court finding the culprit in contempt. And if the court doesn't know, well guess what: the courts allowed Obama's prosecutorial discretion to not deport millions of illegal immigrants because they had a young (illegal immigrant) child in their family, and they allowed Biden's prosecutorial discretion to let all those illegal immigrants in. Now they have to recognize Trump's prosecutorial discretion to not investigate who deported Garcia.
Enter by prosecutorial discretion, deport by prosecutorial discretion. Sauce for the goose and gander.
<Garcia was imprisoned by his government, not Trump.
Oh knock it off with this lame talking point. Trump specifically sent Garcia to that prison, along with everyone else on those flights.
No he didn't. Knock it off with your lame talking point.
So except in the case of 'illegals' we aren't talking about what is legal ????
Gee, what is more liberaltarian? Supporting free speech for immigrants, legal and illegal, or arresting citizens for speech critical of immigrants?
You can cherry pick your context all you want, and I can laugh at your incomplete scenario.
I bet you also laugh at murder and rape victims of illegals.
I find it creepy that you lionize the rape and murder victims of illegals like they are somehow more important than every other rape and murder victim. Especially since the vast majority are brutalized by homegrown rapists and murderers.
The U.K. does this to its own citi, I mean subjects. Look what they're trying to do to Russel Brand. More than 3300 British citizens have been imprisoned for speech crime. Yet Pakistani gang rapists get away with raping young girls
Orwell rolls in his grave.
That kind of thinking gives citizen free speech rights to admitted non-citizens, where is the logic in that.
Pretty sure they don't. Why on earth would we allow non-citizens to stay in this country if they are preaching the destruction of our way of life? The Constitution is not a suicide pact, as has been said before by others. The Constitution was established to protect the rights of Americans. If you are a guest, or if you wish to become an American, we have the right to decide if we want you here. Until we agree that you should also be an American, you do NOT, and should NOT, have the same rights as everyone else.
It might be worth pointing out, in support of my argument, that I've not seen many argue that anyone here under any circumstances, has the right to keep and bear arms, so why would speech be different? Under Tucille's argument, should anyone allowed to visit be able to pop by the local gun store and buy all the firearms they want? That would be an easy way to overthrow a country.
Is liberty a birthright of every human being?
Birthrights can be rejected. And considering you want to allow more child molesters to enter the country, you're not really in a position to be pontificating about "liberty."
Indeed.
Birthrights can be rejected.
Yes they can, by authoritarian dickheads.
How about cute, little dick heads?
Moral, legal, and as-interpreted. Which right do you think applies?
Irrelevant to the topic of USA immigration. We have no responsibility to provide liberty to every human that shows up at our now sovereign door.
And you are retarded.
Okay if you want to go the jus soli route, that means that you can NEVER emigrate or refuse your country's control over you
"The Founders rejected that conception of allegiance and understood citizenship instead as arising from the new principle of consent. New members of the body politic are made by consent. Hence it is simply incorrect to say that the American Revolution did not change this area of law. It was in essence a transformation of the law’s underlying logic. The Revolution put consent and the rights of men in the place that fealty to the King and the common law occupied in English law."
“ if they are preaching the destruction of our way of life?”
Espousing anti-Israel sentiments is “ preaching the destruction of our way of life?”. I think you forgot which country you’re part of.
“ The Constitution is not a suicide pact, as has been said before by others.”
And allowing free speech isn’t suicide. Unless you’re one of those fools who think that words are violence?
“ The Constitution was established to protect the rights of Americans.”
No, the Constitution doesn’t differentiate between citizens and non-citizens in most things. Definitely not the Bill of Rights, which exclusively says “people”, not “citizens”.
“ Until we agree that you should also be an American, you do NOT, and should NOT, have the same rights as everyone else.”
So you believe rights are given by the government and anren’t inalienable rights held by the people?
That’s completely wrong. Rights are inalienable, held by people by virtue of being a human being. They are NOT given to the people by the government.
“ I've not seen many argue that anyone here under any circumstances, has the right to keep and bear arms”
I don’t think that any Supreme Court case has ever addressed this, but you’re correct. From the text, because it says “people”and not “citizens”, it would indicate that non-citizens also have the right to keep and bear arms.
“ That would be an easy way to overthrow a country.”
How cute. You’re one of those who think that a plucky group of gun owners cosplaying as soldiers, could defeat the US Army. No group of civilians (American or otherwise) will ever overthrow the government using legal firearms. Or illegal ones, for that matter. One SEAL team could wipe out the entire delusional lot of them. While eating sandwiches.
Sure, gun ownership and a group of friends makes for “an easy way to overthrow a country”. What a buffoon.
Now, because I think you are completely wrong DON"T say I am supporting the other side.
Espousing anti-Israel sentiments is “ preaching the destruction of our way of life?”. I think you forgot which country you’re part of.
==> But if we let you in to study why not say ' and not to protest'?
You say it is a right but you never say 'anyone who wants to come here to study has the right" insane to me
And allowing free speech isn’t suicide. Unless you’re one of those fools who think that words are violence?
====> In the cross burning case what you deny was explicitly rejected. Free speech can certainly mask violence !!
the Court was correct when it concluded that Virginia could punish cross burning undertaken with an attempt to intimidate. He described the Ku Klux Klan as a “terrorist organization.” For Justice Thomas, the First Amendment’s speech clause provided no haven for cross burning.
So you believe rights are given by the government and anren’t inalienable rights held by the people?
====
That’s completely wrong. Rights are inalienable, held by people by virtue of being a human being. They are NOT given to the people by the government.
=====? Another nasty fascist re-definition by you. That document concludes "government exists to protect those rights" and THAT you deny. You would have attacked Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus but the Congress later gave its approval
How cute. You’re one of those who think that a plucky group of gun owners cosplaying as soldiers, could defeat the US Army. No group of civilians (American or otherwise) will ever overthrow the government using legal firearms. Or illegal ones, for that matter. One SEAL team could wipe out the entire delusional lot of them. While eating sandwiches.
===== Okay , now you are in full stupid mode.
Your opponent is completely in the right , which is why Israel has revoked the gun ownership rights you so dislike.
U.S. Handgun Exports to Israel Soar as Civilian Demand Grows
Israelis have filed more than 300,000 applications for gun licenses over the last few months, more than the total submitted in the two decades prior ---Now let's not argue your point, that that is supposedly useless, let's just say THEY HAVE THE RIGHT. you can't deny that
Well, again the free speech being defended here:
"The store owner gave the police the name of a fellow gun enthusiast who stated that he had a similar conversation with Mr. Mahdawi at the "Precision Museum" in Windsor where the enthusiast served as a volunteer tour leader. During that conversation, Mr. Mahdawi allegedly told the gun enthusiast, "I like to kill Jews." (Id.)"
https://reason.com/volokh/2025/05/01/potential-deportee-mohsen-madawi-i-like-to-kill-jews/
I had been under the impression that such sentiments were unacceptable, at least by non-brown people.
Defending free speech *rights* not the same as defending particular speech *content*. You of all people should understand this.
I do not think we are obliged to take in all the hate filled people of the world, even if they do intersect with progressive values.
MOre basically IT IS NOT TRUE THAT IN ANY SITUATION INVOLVING SPEECH AUTOMATICALLY BECOMES A FREE SPEECH ISSUE !!!
Wait, there are exceptions to the First Amendment, and they’re exactly the same for citizens and non-citizens? I’m … not shocked at all. No shit, Sherlock.
Immigrants and Radicals Have the Same Free Speech Rights as Everyone Else
While precious few "Immigrants and Radicals" who now find themselves on the wrong side of Fortress Americana got booted merely for exercising their natural right to free speech, this is still an utterly banal observation. Uyghurs in China also have the same free speech rights as everyone else, how's that working out for them? I'm smart enough not to exercise my right to free speech while a guest in the UK if I wish to remain a free man.
What non-citizens don't have is the "right" to be in another country, and when in violation of the conditions that allowed their presence there in the first place, that sufferance can evaporate.
If not everyone can come here who wants then free speech of who comes here MUST be contingent on something else. RIGHT???
So, immigrants saying "I love to kill Democrats" is perfectly all right?
Is and ought
as far apart as
did and did not.
IF you are an idiotic nominalist idealist David Hume clod, well, yes.
Is and ought founder America. Endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" Okay so you disapprove of the American Founding, you are free to do so.
By the way one of the 'great' defenders of that stupid verse of yours also said 'they idea of a $5 bill is the same as a real $5 bill" [ adopted from the German]
I think I give up. I'll get my Democrat talking points from more talented writers elsewhere.
That's right folks, a belief that "all men are created equal with certain inalienable rights" is now a "Democrat talking point".
So what is the corresponding "Republican talking point"?
No, the Democrats abandoned equal treatment under law for equality of outcomes long ago.
Glad you agree with me that the belief in liberty as a universal human birthright is not a "Democrat talking point".
Right there with you.
It was amusing seeing Walker dip into the comments and get called out as a mendacious twat by you. The "you just don't get how funny I am" underlined his condescending tone in both the article and comments.
Yeah, that was pretty amusing. On the one hand, I give him credit for popping in and reading /responding. But jeez, dude. Have a little self awareness. It's one thing to come off as dickish in an article. It's another to prove it repeatedly when everyone is giving you a chance to backtrack.
Steaming pile of TDS-addled shit Tuccille:
"TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMMMMPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Stuff it up your ass, Tuccille.
Only leftists think human rights are universal and protected by government. True libertarians understand that government is the source of our rights. That means that rights can be granted, and rights can be taken away. Citizens are granted rights, and illegals are not. Besides, human rights are for humans. Illegals aren't human.
Wrong. True libertarians believe our rights are natural rights as given to us by our humanity. The government's actual job is to protect our rights, not attack them.
Poe's Law strikes again.
>Immigrants and Radicals Have the Same Free Speech Rights as Everyone Else
Yes they do. No it is stopping them from speaking.
But if these people hate the US so much . . . they can do their speaking elsewhere. Especially when they're involved in disruptive behavior and trying to foment rebellion.
Rebellion is reserved for citizens.
This is exactly the point. Speak all you want. From your own country. BUH BYE
This is something that has to be argued before the Supreme Court, which once held that legal resident aliens can be kicked out for past membership in the Communist Party.
So now stare decisis is bad?
As a lawyer, stare decisis is pretty awful. Past judges are wrong just as much as current judges are. Judges should never be afraid to do the right thing now, even though some court in the past did the wrong thing.
But that was when membership in the Communist Party was not considered a constitutionally protected right for American citizens either. It is now.
No,they argued that membership in the Communist Party invalidates the idea that : American Revolution-Era history confirms that American citizenship was founded on consent and allegiance, not on feudal birthright subjectship.
That is not founded on JUS SOLI
Immigrants, especially undocumented, Illegal Aliens, have no such rights, especially if they arrive here with the intention of committing criminal activities. They have no rights if they intend to create hostile actions against the American people.
It is especially worsened when taxpaying Americans have to foot the bill to support millions of extra mouths and pay for their free medical care. Illegal aliens racked up $121 million in fees in Texas hospital in one month; https://www.dailywire.com/news/illegal-aliens-racked-up-a-nine-figure-bill-at-texas-hospitals-in-just-one-month
Bring back all those Russians we kicked out!
Immigrants and radicals have free speech rights. They also have the right to the consequences of that free speech. They also have the right to keep their mouth shut. If they choose not to, that's on them.
Due Process and Inherent Rights matter to me, a lot.
BUT! And it is a tactical and provisional "but..."
I am also very aware of Rule #4:
"Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."
Additionally, we have a systems in place for redress. This situation sucks, but it can be rectified when appropriate.
The way to tell if this is being used as a cudgel by greatly weakened Democratic Operatives is what they choose focus on, and what they choose to ignore.
Deporting terrorists and terrorist sympathizers is "chilling" to free speech.
Allowing terrorists and terrorist sympathizers to shut down campuses and terrorize Jewish students, while guests in this country... No problem.
Except, of course, they aren’t terrorists. The government says they are, but don’t have any evidence. Which is why they don’t want hearings.
And supporting terrorists, while disgusting, is legal. It’s why people can openly admire the Confederacy even though they were the most deadly terrorists in American history.
You are a laught. And YOU have evidence that they are not terrorists.
It is your duty to show that evidence to the authorities. Meanwhile Abrega looks uglier by the day and no one in my neighborhood would even allow him into the state !!!!l
I'm going to camp out on your lawn and call your family a bunch of racial epithets for weeks straight.
Free speech.
Illegal immigrants have no rights to "free" speech. GFY you regime bootlicker.
U.S. courts have, over the years, worked out the right approach to free speech: only a few enumerated categories of speech are unprotected; these categories must be such that people can agree on whether particular speech falls into them, regardless of whether they agree or disagree with the speech itself; and new categories must almost never be added. Also, content-based or viewpoint-based speech restricitons must be narrowly tailored to a compelling government interest. Other countries' approaches have led to bad results, such as banning public questioning of court verdicts (see https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-it ), and vague bans on "hate speech" that can chill legitimate discourse.
IF not everyone has the right to come here in the first place, then to say they do have free speech rights once here, is to admit that those rights must rest on what allows them in or not in in the first place
>>Immigrants and Radicals Have the Same Free Speech Rights as Everyone Else
>>Noncitizens Have (Some) First Amendment Rights
who reconciles your headers?
Campus protests against Israel have revived debates over the limits of First Amendment protections.
Well as long as there is no protest - or even a squeak - against FUNDING that genocidal shit - then it's all good. It's only about campus and foreign students and irrelevant bleating about the 'First Amendment'. Like it's always been here at Reason and among 'libertarian' 'non-interventionists'. Very much like a toddler threatening to hold their breath until their face turns blue. Annoying in the grocery store but not exactly a reason to change what's on the shopping list.
Feel free to protest whatever you want. Just don't impede someone's ability to exercise their rights and privileges.
When I first moved to NYC there were small protests in Union Sq. against the Zionist state every weekend. It's when you started disrupting people's education did it become an issue.
Focusing on protest theater is a stupid boomer legacy. The point of the 1A was for citizens to be free to hold govt accountable. That's now gone. It is not successfully 'replaced' by bs about whether people are free or not free to march around yelling and holding signs.
If the school you are so graciously allowed to attend does not allow it, it is purely a contractual issue.
""Immigrants and Radicals Have the Same Free Speech Rights as Everyone Else""
True. But actions are a different thing. Is blocking my access to education I am paying for count as free speech. Absolutely not. Actions can have consequences.
Is blocking my access to education I am paying for count as free speech.
Even just strictly among citizens; exploiting social activists to infringe on the peaceful and passive rights of other citizens is Orwellian-style authoritarianism. The government taking the side of non-citizens over citizens in such a manner is an overtly broken and treasonous government that is explicitly subverting its own people.
It's to the point that you'd almost think Reason is trying to drive people away from Libertarianism with their take(s).
YEs, I agree
Guess I missed the part in the 1A that says congress can't *Not-invite* anyone for what they say and stand-for.
This is nothing but trying to twist and corrupt the 1A into an *entitlement* to invade.
Advocating violence, as Mohsen Mahdawi did, is not free speech.
Only a brainless progressive turd would be stupid enough to believe it is.
You need to make a distinction between being allowed to stay in the country on a conditional basis and citizenship. The gap between them is a chasm.
Reason would not mind Youtube deplatforming noncitzen users over posting hate speech online, or violation of whatever standard put on their TOS. Any 1A right concern or discourse over immigration can be dismissed with the wave of a hand because they can't breach individual autonomy or agreement between consenting individuals. If I say no racist non citizens can ever enter my own home, the notion that I'm "punishing" them for protected speech would be a total nonsequitor.
I also assume that Reason does not object to NDAs, which restrict someone's speech for a fee. It is, and never has been considered a violation of 1A. Speech code on private business is also kosher and constitutional.
So the question is, can the government similarly enter into contract with individuals? If yes, then the government revoking green card is not a violation of 1A. The subsequent deportation is no different than Youtube forbidding banned users monetization tools and other privileges.
Consider the slippery slope proposed by the open border lobby. Should we grant citizenship to Russian nationalist students who organize illegal encampment on campus, rallying to undermine the Ukrainian cause or support the Putin? 1A only prevents the government from violating rights they're owed. They don't have a right to a green card.
I’m going to sssume this is a good-faith argument and address it as such. Here goes:
“ If I say no racist non citizens can ever enter my own home, the notion that I'm "punishing" them for protected speech would be a total nonsequitor.“
Correct. That is an agreement between two private individuals. The government is a completely different thing. There are things that it is literally barred from doing without due process of law. Also, a visa is an agreement between the visitor and the government. If the person doesn’t violate the terms, there is no justification for the government to remove them just because they don’t like what that person says. We are a nation of laws, and that’s a good thing.
“ I also assume that Reason does not object to NDAs, which restrict someone's speech for a fee.”
Correct. That, again, is an agreement between individuals. An individual can create a contract with another individual that constrains their own rights. As I understand it, the government cannot without due process.
“ If yes, then the government revoking green card is not a violation of 1A.”
If the visa holder uphold their end of the agreement, there is no violation to justify revoking it. Therefore it is retaliation for disfavored speech, which is constitutionally forbidden for the government to do.
“ Consider the slippery slope proposed by the open border lobby”
Requiring the government to have a reason to unilaterally invalidate a visa agreement when the visa holder hasn’t violated the terms isn’t “open borders” by any stretch of the imagination.. The government should be required to honor their agreements, don’t you think? Personally, I’m very uncomfortable with the idea that the government could unilaterally ignore any agreement they made.
“ Should we grant citizenship to Russian nationalist”
They aren’t applying for citizenship. They’re on student visas. Citizenship is a much different thing.
“ They don't have a right to a green card.”
If the government says “You may have this green card. Here is what you can and cannot do.” and the holder doesn’t violate the agreement, they do. You seem to wish they said, “You can’t say political things”, but that isn’t part of the visa or green card agreement.
But why argue that way. If the school you are accepted to states 'no protesting or non-educational public statements, especially signed ones" then it is purely contractual. Why should the govt step in and say 'school must allow student to protest"
This is why both sides on almost all contested comments here bother me. Where is the demand when not everybody can come here in the first place and you are allowed to come here for education and are not even on track to be a citizen" Where is the inequity?? IF there is inequity in not letting someone come here to protest then where is the justification for not allowing everybody in????????? So obvious that I think something morally off is corrupting minds
I just read the best Amicus Curiae in defense of Trump. It makes his case perfectly and --- what I love about it --- it shows how wrong you are. If the stupids (Kagan, Sotomayor, and Brown) don't go full ignorant, this and Birthright Citizenship will fully vindicate Trump. I did my homework, you do yours
and it has happened before
During the 1930s and into the 1940s, up to 2 million Mexicans and Mexican-Americans were deported or expelled from cities and towns across the U.S. and shipped to Mexico
Don't p;aint me as approving , I am simply answering your implications