Whiplash

Plus: Rat buffet, critiquing the abundance agenda, arson at the Pennsylvania governor's mansion, and more...

Trump's exceptions keep getting reversed: President Donald Trump just can't make up his mind about which Chinese products will have tariffs applied to them upon crossing our borders.

All last week, Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping engaged in a tit-for-tat trade war escalation. On Friday, the Trump administration made tariff exceptions (but don't call them that?) for smartphones, semiconductors, computers, and other tech goods (modems, routers, flash drives, and the like), signaling that they'd be subject to the lower 20 percent tariff versus the much higher 125 percent ones. (The 125 percent tariffs aren't as universal as it had seemed like they would be last week—and the administration has been oscillating between claiming the total tariff amount is 125 percent and 145 percent. The actual category breakdown is here, with tax amounts that vary substantially. And the electronics tariffs exemptions apply to all imports, not just Chinese ones.)

Trump says no tariff "exception" was announced on Friday pic.twitter.com/0h4qFZti6j

— Joe Weisenthal (@TheStalwart) April 13, 2025

Then, over the weekend, the administration signaled that semiconductor chip tariffs would be announced separately, and might be larger. "We wanted to uncomplicate it from a lot of other companies, because we want to make our chips and semiconductors and other things in our country," the president told reporters aboard Air Force One. "We are taking a look at Semiconductors and the WHOLE ELECTRONICS SUPPLY CHAIN in the upcoming National Security Tariff Investigations," he posted on Truth Social. Then, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick made the cable news rounds on Sunday, saying that these electronics—laptops, phones, etc.—will not be excluded from tariffs long-term, just that those specific categories will be announced at the same time as the semiconductor tariffs, in a month or two.

This about sums it up:

Sentiment check: The biggest rally of the year would come on the day Lutnick gets fired.

I suggest the administration figures out who controls the message, whatever it is,
as it changes every day.
US business can't plan or invest with the constant back and forth. pic.twitter.com/d78bwFBLMO

— Sven Henrich (@NorthmanTrader) April 13, 2025

Also, this:

WHY TARIFF BANANAS? pic.twitter.com/ayXpjBbUpY

— Armand Domalewski (@ArmandDoma) April 12, 2025

(Keen observers might recall that Reason has been on the banana-tariff beat for a minute.)

"President Trump has made it clear America cannot rely on China to manufacture critical technologies," said White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt on Saturday, so companies "are hustling to onshore their manufacturing in the United States as soon as possible." But onshoring manufacturing is easier said than done (and, for semiconductors at least, moves were already made with the passage of the CHIPS Act several years ago). It will take years to build out that type of capacity—and a lot of the parts we'd need to build the factories that come from…China. How exactly will this happen?

---

Scenes from New York: I just got a notice in the mail that the city will be fining residents if they fail to compost. "Residents across the five boroughs are now required to separate their food scraps and yard waste from their garbage or face penalties ranging from $25 to $300 for each infraction," reports The New York Times. An incredible idea from a city that has a massive rat problem and issues with even basic provision of public services. (Or, looked at differently: What a creative cash grab.)

Day 1 of NYC's composting mandate and I received an image where a super was sorting the non-recycled trash (in order to remove compostable material) and he encountered a used needle.

Supers should not be forced to dumpster dive through tenant trash.

Building owners can provide… pic.twitter.com/SxB1FfSc59

— Kenny Burgos (@KennyBurgosNY) April 1, 2025

---

QUICK HITS

• Last week, Zach Weissmueller and I spent some time sparring with The Atlantic's Derek Thompson, who—along with The New York Times' Ezra Klein—has written the book Abundance, which aims to provide a new framework for what Democrats ought to prioritize. We agree on a fair bit, but I remain skeptical that the modern Democratic Party is a good vehicle for this, and Zach pushed back on Thompson's definition of public goods as well as what types of infrastructure projects ought to be funded by the state:

• I want to be extremely clear: Working in a factory sounds bad.

"America would be better off if more people worked in manufacturing."

• 80% of Americans agree
• 20% disagree

"I would be better off if I worked in a factory."

• 25% of Americans agree
• 73% disagree
• 2% currently work in a factory

???????? https://t.co/ycnHVZ1gT1 pic.twitter.com/4NXb0GLK5L

— Frank Luntz (@FrankLuntz) April 13, 2025

• Hundreds of thousands of Cuban migrants came into this country via temporary humanitarian parole programs, which may now be revoked under President Donald Trump. Estimates vary, but this Bloomberg piece which relies on statistics from the Center for Engagement and Advocacy in the Americas says up to 500,000 Cubans could face deportation.
• An arsonist set fire to Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence in the middle of the night over the weekend. (No one was killed, fortunately.) We don't know much about the arsonist's motives yet, but it certainly looks like another worrying case of political violence.
• How ballooning insurance costs are affecting the nightlife industry and causing club closures. (Relevant discourse.)
• Mario Vargas Llosa, the Nobel-winning Peruvian novelist, has died. Vargas Llosa was a vocal advocate of classical liberal politics; you can read his articles for Reason here.
• Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) made a surprise speech at Coachella, the extremely expensive music festival in southern California (ticket price minimum, $500), urging attendees to fight for "economic justice."

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Trump's exceptions keep getting reversed...

Like Ali he keeps deeking.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Almost like tariffs were just being used as a threat to force the other guys into complying.

But Reason and Maine's very own super-genius has reliably informed me that Trump's too dumb for that.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

He has also been adaptable to figure out what's working and not. Reacting to outcomes.

I know most prefer him to just stick to his initial design and never adapt. Because true markets are designed and forced, never adaptable.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hey, how can we take Trump seriously, especially on trade policy, unless he surrounds himself with certified experts, committees drawn from major academic institutions, and uses recommendations from European bureaucrats?

[VinniUSMC]

Woah. You forgot to make sure those committees are diverse. Can't have trade policy debates without people who don't know what gender they are.

[Nelson]

“ He has also been adaptable to figure out what's working and not. Reacting to outcomes.”

Working for what? What do you think he’s trying to accomplish?

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

He has been very clear on what his goals are. See any of the Bessent or Trump speeches and media interactions.

Maybe stop relying on Maddow for your news.

[Quicktown Brix]

Jesse must have been worried he had some credibility left.

[Nelson]

“ He has been very clear on what his goals are.”

No, he hasn’t. He has mentioned two main goals (bringing back US manufacturing and getting everyone else to zero tariffs), neither of which can be achieved with his tariff strategy. In order to accomplish the first you have to have high, permanent tariffs. In order to accomplish the second, you need high, temporary tariffs that go to zero when a country agrees to take theirs to zero. He is doing neither of those things.

“See any of the Bessent or Trump speeches and media interactions.”

Yes, that’s how we know hthey are clueless. They keep saying what they want to accomplish while doing things that cannot accomplish those goals And, by the by, are mutually exclusive goals. You literally cannot achieve both because you would have to make your tariff strategy in two mutually exclusive ways.

If you believe that tariffs can be used to simultaneously protect/grow American manufacturing and get other countries to remove their tariffs, you are willingly suspending disbelief. An excellent strategy when trying to enjoy a fantasy movie, but idiotic in the real world.

“ Maybe stop relying on Maddow for your news.”

Or Milton Friedman, that leftist Marxist? Or pretty much anyone who understands basic logic and how tariffs work?

You are willfully ignorant. A tiny bit of intellectual effort would make you aware of how ignorant you have chosen to be. But like all zealots, you refuse to critically and skeptically examine your beliefs.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Summary of a Nelson argument.

He doesn't tell us. Okay he tells us but he's stupid. Waaah.

You're contradicting you're own narrative lol.

Many understand what is going on. Yours just too stupid to it appears.

[Nelson]

Apparently reading comprehension is yet another area that you struggle in. I’ll simplify it so your small mind might be able to comprehend.

“ He doesn't tell us.”

I didn’t say that. I said he hasn’t been clear about how the things he is doing will achieve his goals. He talks about what he thinks we need (onshoring manufacturing, eliminating global tariffs, and eliminating trade deficits) and says that’s why he’s doing what he’s doing with tariffs, but his strategy and the first two goals are mutually exclusive and the last one isn’t something that can be “fixed” with tariffs, period. So he isn’t being clear at all, he’s making vague allusions to tariffs and mentioning his goals without actually saying one will achieve the other (which is a typical Trump behavior). Probably because they can’t.

Trump has mentioned two goals, restoring manufacturing and eliminating worldwide tariffs. What he has done cannot achieve either of those goals. It’s like the guy who tries to pound in a nail with a piece of sandpaper. It can’t succeed. Not because tariffs can’t theoretically accomplish either of those goals, but because the way he’s using tariffs will never lead to either of those goals.

“ Okay he tells us but he's stupid.”

Strawman harder, mental midget. While I do think any intelligence Trump has is overwhelmed with his various obsessions and his ego, I have always said that while tariffs are stupid because they cause American citizens to suffer for goals that don’t make any sense, it’s HOW he is using tariffs is that is truly stupid because they can’t achieve his goals. But, as has been amply demonstrated, they can screw over American companies and investors.

It’s international trade and fiscal policy. If you can’t understand it in the simple way I just presented it, you will never understand it. The subject can’t be reduced any further and you will never become any smarter (or well-informed, if your past is prologue).

“ You're contradicting your own narrative lol.”

Only a mental midget would think that, given what I have posted. But since you are a mental midget, you probably don’t realize it’s a stupid thing to believe. Understanding is a daily struggle for you.

“ Many understand what is going on.”

Really? Who? Because parroting what Trump wants to hear doesn’t show understanding. Quite the opposite. You clearly don’t understand the slightest part of this subject.

But perhaps I’m wrong. Maybe you’re the genius. So prove me wrong. You know what Trump says he wants to accomplish and what he’s doing to try to reach those goals. Explain to us, in the same level of detail that I do with you, how the strategies Trump is employing will achieve the goals he is claiming.

And please don’t use a McGuffin like “he knows what he’s doing and it’s a secret”. Try to actually make a logical connection between his actions and his stated goals. Even a tic-tac-toe-level analysis would be a start.

Come on, genius. Amaze us with the unfathomable depths of your logic and knowledge.

[Quicktown Brix]

Almost like tariffs were just being used as a threat to force the other guys into complying.

Maybe, but American businesses and consumers are paying a high price for his gamble. Of course, you'd have to consider him to be quite the genius to start laying the groundwork for this negotiation 40 years ago with his 4 decades of praise for tariffs.

Also, you need to disbelieve his own mouth:

Speaking to reporters aboard Air Force One on Friday evening en route to Florida, President Trump stated, “There could be some exceptions for obvious reasons, but I would say that 10% is the minimum.”

https://eutoday.net/trump-leaves-door-open-to-tariff-exemptions/

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

At least he's got TDS-addled shits like this steppin' and fetchin' like their pants are on fire and their ass is catchin.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

It’s like these guys have never told the salesman at the dealership they don’t want to buy the car anymore.

[Quicktown Brix]

I've never simultaneously crashed the stock and bond markets and cost Americans trillions of dollars either.

Despite that, I did however, get a pretty good APR on my loan.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

They didn't stay crashed for even a week. I hope you didn't panic sell.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

I hope he did! SELL! SELL! SELL!
TDS-addled shits don't seem to recognize realized losses as opposed to paper losses, but I guess it's to be expected in idiots of that level.

[Quicktown Brix]

Don't believe the warning signs all around. Everything's fine. There's no volatility. It's no big deal to see the bond market crash in a trade war with China who holds $800 billion of US bonds. What could go wrong?

You guys are doing exactly the same as the Dem's messaging under Bidenomics.

You know why Trump backed off the Mega-MAGA-tariffs, right? Because we are in very dangerous territory with our debt and at China's mercy if they decide to take the hit and dump US bonds.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

TDS-addled shit piles gonna TDS!

[Incunabulum]

Sure, Jan.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

I hope he did.

[Nelson]

People who know how to invest (a group that clearly doesn’t include Jesse or Mother) know to buy the dip. But you have to be confident that it is a dip and not the beginning of a steady (and large) decline. Chaos makes the latter much more likely, even if you are willing to believe that Trump is doing something strategic instead of just expressing his id.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

buy the dip donate to actblue.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Hey Act Blue retard, go to the thread the day after it dropped. You'll see who was laughing and buying and who wasn't.

You are truly fucking retarded.

Odd enough it was your team yelling sell and chaos.

You are truly a retard.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

"People who know how to invest (a group that clearly doesn’t include Jesse or Mother) know to buy the dip."

Nelson has to Buttplug's sock. Same old retarded platitudes.

[Nelson]

“ Hey Act Blue retard”

You seem to forget that I never talked about ActBlue. You did. But not knowing stuff seems to be your brand. So yes, the guy blathering about ActBlue is a complete retard. That person was you.

“ You'll see who was laughing and buying and who wasn't.”

Like I said, to buy the dip you have to be confident that it is a dip, not the beginning of a downward slide. Because if you are going to hold those assets less than a year, you don’t get the 15% capital gains rate and have to make at least 7% more to get the same amount in your pocket.. You know that, right?

So if you think that they will be more valuable one year after you bought them, great. You’re most likely a fool, but you know what they say about a fool and his money.

Because Trump is so erratic, the smart money isn’t investing. And that’s not just in the stock market. Companies aren’t investing because they have no idea what will happen in the next week, let alone the next month or year.

And tell me, market grnius, what happens when companies don’t make investments in their businesses? Do you know?

So “my team” (conservative and informed investors) never said anything about selling because that just locks in your losses. My team said hold. And you do understand why that is not good for the economy, right?

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

I never talked about ActBlue.

It's funny how the leftists on this board think we are as dumb, and as short-memory'd as they are.

[Nelson]

“ Nelson has to Buttplug's sock. Same old retarded platitudes.”

Not even a little bit. Buttplug is on my mute list because he’s either a liberal parody account or a liberal wingnut. Same reason Squirrelsy and Rev. Kirkland are on mute.

I have a consistent and libertarian issue profile. You and Jesse (and people like Red Rocks, but you two are the worst) are irrational paleocons without a drop of libertarian inclination inside you.

It’s an interesting philosophical question: are you people idiots because you are paleoconservatives or are you paleocons because of your abject ignorance and inability to outthink a garden gnome?

Personally I think favoring government-imposed cultural conservatism, xenophobia, isolationism, and authoritarianism is only possible if you are a complete moron, much like those who bash capitalism and free trade. But it’s possible that being a paleocon rots your brain.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Hey Act Blue Retard, you said people who donated to Act Blue were conservatives. Lol.

There is nothing libertarian about you Nelson. Like the other Act Blue Retards you come from the left and try to wrap the lefts goals into a libertarian argument. You utterly fail at doing it.

Nothing you ever say is libertarian. It is anti conservative and defensive of the left.

You're not tricking anyone. Except yourself.

[Nelson]

“ It's funny how the leftists on this board think we are as dumb, and as short-memory'd as they are.”

I talked about the ideological views of the two assassins, which were demonstrably conservative. It was you idiots who brought up ActBlue, as if it was relevant. I also never said they were Republicans, nor that they were Trump supporters, two othe of the paleocon’s greatest gaslight hits.

Sure, when you make shit up and then keep repeating it, you convince yourselves it’s true. No one else is stupid enough to believe it.

Also, I will once again point out that calling someone with my issue profile a leftist says tons about you and nothing about me. I am a libertarian. My beliefs about free trade, capitalism, personal liberty, balanced budgets, smaller government, and social program reforms can’t be characterized any other way. Well, unless you are a dishonest paleocon like you and your fellow pro-government, authoritarian, culture police enthusiasts.

[Nelson]

“ Hey Act Blue Retard, you said people who donated to Act Blue were conservatives. Lol.”

It only did I never say that, I didn’t bring up ActBlue. You did. I don’t think donations to organizations are a better indicator of a person’s beliefs than their own words and behavior. You do.

When someone talks about the things they support, I tend to think that is what they support. You don’t, because you’re a wingnut and you can’t accept any nuance like “has conservative beliefs but donates to get-out-the-vote groups (which is actually who they donated to).

Also, in checking to make sure I was accurate, I discovered that I was wrong about them being Republicans. The one who actually shot Trump was apparently registered as a Republican. The other guy was not.

I apologize. This nuance and fact-based discussion is probably making your brain hurt.

[Nelson]

“ There is nothing libertarian about you Nelson.”

Really? I vocally support a balanced budget, reforming SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, reducing the size of government, individual rights (including gun rights, although it’s not as important as most other rights), personal liberty, the rule of law, free trade, capitalism, and free speech.

But I guess to you, because I think Trump is a terrible President (worse this time than last) and that conservatives forcing their culture on everyone else (like abortion bans and sometimes-yes, sometimes-no support for parental rights) is a terrible thing, that suddenly counts more than my actual issue profile?

Since you think a registered Republican who espoused conservative beliefs is a liberal just because he donated to a get-out-the-vote fund, that actually is probably how (and what) you think. I keep forgetting you’re a mentally challenged zealot.

[Nelson]

“ They didn't stay crashed for even a week. I hope you didn't panic sell.”

The S&P is still down double digits this year. As a comparison, it was up over 26% last year. So what does that tell you?

There would have to be a major surge in the markets to get back to where they were when Trump took office. Almost a Biden-level surge.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

So what does that tell you?

I’m still ahead?

[Nelson]

Apparently you can’t read your investment reports.

If you were invested before January 2025, you’re almost certainly down around 10%, because the losses have been across all sectors. Even bonds aren’t safe.

If you invested in January, you are down slightly less, since you missed the beginning of the Trump losses. The closer to today that you invested, the more likely you are only down a little.

If you invested last week, there’s a chance you are up. Will it stay up? Probably not, given the bad decisions of the last three months. So if you are up and hold, you’ll probably see your paper gains disappear this week.

Investing is a marathon, not a sprint. Being up since Friday is meaningless to an investor.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

And year over year dumdum?

I'm really doubting you own any stocks.

How is the market today different than the drop in 2022? Who the fuck do you think you are fooling?

[Nelson]

“ And year over year dumdum?”

You mean the end of the first year under Trump versus the last year under Biden? Since that’s 9 months away, who knows? But I have a pretty good idea, given the trend.

Right now the year would include 9 months under Biden, when the economy was good and the stock market was great, and only 3 months of Trump, when the economy is struggling and the market is down about 10%.

As a Rrump sycophant, I can understand why you would want to borrow Biden’s success to mitigate Trumps failures. But that’s transparently dishonest.

Trump’s economy and market have fallen. Last year was strong. Gee, I wonder what changed in January?

[Nelson]

“ How is the market today different than the drop in 2022?”

You mean besides a global pandemic? Do you even think before you write stupid things?

When you take a good economy and a great stock market, both of which improved dramatically and steadily over the previous three years, and bring it to a screeching halt, that is very, very bad. Trump did that. And his tariffs will continue to do that. Because they are terrible and destructive and there’s no external factor like a pandemic that is causing it.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Look at the retard prop up a bubble to give credit to Biden lol.

[Nelson]

Yes, a three year long, steady, stable “bubble” that encompassed virtually every sector of the economy.

So, since you aren’t very smart, I’ll use smaller words so you can understand: a broad-based, sustained period of economic growth is the exact opposite of a bubble. If you don’t believe me, educate yourself: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bubble.asp

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

What happened in 2022 buddy? What's the average price to earnings of what is propping up the DJIA? What's the historical p2e?

You don't even know why it has been referred to as a bubble for years. If you were financially literate you would know many have been warning about the p2e ratio the last 2 years. But you're not.

I bet you follow Jim Kramer.

Here is even the AP pointing out you're an idiot.

https://apnews.com/article/financial-markets-correction-sp-wall-street-904910323785d377a7d61023df450b72

Here is an article from Jan 2025.

https://financialpost.com/investing/us-stock-market-bubble-depends-who-you-ask

Here is December of last year.

https://www.ftadviser.com/asset-allocator/2024/12/6/are-we-in-a-bubble-or-are-us-stocks-just-incredibly-expensive/

Nelson. I say this kindly. You're a fucking ignorant leftist.

[Nelson]

“ What happened in 2022 buddy?”

Covid, dumbass.

“ You don't even know why it has been referred to as a bubble for years.”

By who? The same people who insist the election was stolen? Steady, three-year-long growth across all sectors of the market isn’t a bubble. If it were, the stack market would be called the bubble market because everything would fit your definition.

For your edification, a three-year-long, steady period of growth across all market sectors is called a bull market. It’s what the stock market looks like when it’s healthy.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bullmarket.asp

“Prices of securities rise and fall continuously during trading. But a bull market occurs over extended periods of time during which a large portion of security prices rise overall.”

That’s what the last 3 years were, until Trump took office.

“ If you were financially literate you would know many have been warning about the p2e ratio the last 2 years.”

First, it’s referred to as P/E ratio by most knowledge people. If you want to learn, here’s your chance: https://www.investopedia .com/terms/p/price-earningsratio.asp

A couple relevant bullets:

“ A high P/E ratio could mean that a company's stock is overvalued or that investors expect high growth rates.”

So it doesn’t mean a bubble, especially if there is broad-market growth. Bubbles tend to be in specific sectors. The wider the growth, the more likely it’s a bull market, not a bubble.

“ P/E ratios are most valuable when comparing similar companies in the same industry or for a single company over time.”

So they aren’t very useful in analyzing the broader market.

I know you are selectively searching to find sources that support your priors (which you, unsurprisingly, aren’t posting). Pro tip: search the broad term and learn from reputable sites.

“ I bet you follow Jim Kramer.”

Never have, never will. He obviously is a successful investor, but his shtick is style over substance. It holds viewers, but it requires too many tradeoffs to be valuable.

Plus following any talking head for investing advice is the height of stupidity.

“ Nelson. I say this kindly. You're a fucking ignorant leftist.”

You say almost nothing kindly to those who disagree with you, which is why I can have intense, respectful conversations with conservatives like Commenter_XY, and AT, but not you. You are intentionally and gleefully nasty and insulting, which is why I give it right back to you.

You are a rage-fueled relic of the past who will never be happy because you can’t understand why the things you believe in keep losing influence and can’t accept that others should be able to live by their beliefs, not yours.

It’s why the fringe has to use legislation to force everyone to live their way. When people can choose for themselves, they choose not to live your way.

And again, anyone with my issue profile can’t credibly be described as a leftist. It’s just that you only see two categories: people who agree with you and leftists. It’s why you never respond or acknowledge it when I mention my issue profile, most of which I post frequently about.

You are a blind extremist who also is broadly and deeply ignorant about many topics you speak on.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

I've never simultaneously crashed the stock and bond markets and cost Americans trillions of dollars either.

I don’t remember this complaint during Covid lockdowns.

[Quicktown Brix]

The COVID crash was not caused by one guy's decision, but if you wanted to force blame on anyone, it would be the same guy.

[VinniUSMC]

Not one guy, but only a small handful of the "best people/experts".

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

And they were (D)ifferent.

[Nelson]

If so, they would have been Trump’s people. After all, he was President at the time.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

In this thread Nelson doesn't understand, due to him being a fucking retard, that it was governor's who instituted lock downs.

Nelson is really really dumb.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

You mean Fauci?

[Quicktown Brix]

OK. Got me there.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yeah, sure. Remember when you ranted about Nazis like Death Santis letting people go back to work?

[Quicktown Brix]

Me?

[Incunabulum]

It absolutely was. One guy's decision that was enforced by other guys

Same as here.

[Nelson]

“ I don’t remember this complaint during Covid lockdowns.”

You mean when Trump was President? You do know that was when the Covid losses were happening, right? Under Biden the market surged.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

Printing money can do that.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Nelson, again, is so fucking stupid he doesn't know which level of government instituted lock downs.

Nelson is really really dumb.

[Nelson]

Right. It was only Biden. Trump never borrowed any money for stimulus checks or created any restrictions due to Covid.

Damn, you idiots will believe anything.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Talks about who actually did the lockdowns, Nelson changes the subject because he's retarded. Lol.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Your handlers aren’t sending their best.

[Dillinger]

>> cost Americans trillions of dollars either.

pretending those losses are static muddies the argument.

[Quicktown Brix]

I'd argue pretending those losses aren't real is naive. Opportunities are missed. People are forced in to situations they didn't anticipate. It's not pretend money. There's a reason so many people are upset when a market crashes.

[Dillinger]

it never not rebounds. never. ever. ever. borderline bullshit to even put it on the news except the media uses it to freak out the working class about how their retirement fund died today

also, investing money even in a 401k carries risk. if not capable of driving 75 mph in the far left lane, don't be in the far left lane.

[Quicktown Brix]

So was the great depression, no big deal? We recovered.

If we're just in a short term dip, opportunity costs are minimal, largely you are correct.

But in a longer view, in a boom market, if my stocks rise 20% from $100 or 20% from $80 after a crash makes a big difference if I have $120 vs $96.

Likewise, the assumption that this will recover rather than continue going down, is not a given.

How is it that last week the defense was, it's an overdue correction and this week it's it's only paper losses, it will rebound?

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

Take a look at the long term chart of the Dow.

[Nelson]

“ also, investing money even in a 401k carries risk”

Uh, you do know that investing with a 401(k) and investing with non-retirement money is exactly the same thing, right? There isn’t a 401(k) stock market and a “regular” stock market.

[soldiermedic76]

QB, the depression probably would have been short term (or at least substantially shorter) if the Government kept its nose out of shit. Hell, FDR's own SecTreasury said as much in Congressional testimony in 1941.;

[Quicktown Brix]

No arguments there, Soldiermedic.

[Nelson]

“ the depression probably would have been short term (or at least substantially shorter) if the Government kept its nose out of shit”

The government sticking its nose in financial markets is pretty much the definition of “how things can get worse”. This is why free trade works and is good and managed economies and tariffs are bad. Yet somehow no one ever learns.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"I'd argue pretending those losses aren't real is naive."

In which case, you've proven to be an ignoramus. We didn't lose a penny in 2008, nor over the last couple of weeks, since we are not stupid enough to sell on a dip.
Fuck off and die, asshole.

[Dillinger]

I see we're at the end of a reply string.

>>Likewise, the assumption that this will recover rather than continue going down, is not a given.

it's close as possible to the sun will rise over Japan before US.

my defense is the same this week as last. Panic on the streets of London or at the disco is unwarranted because to-the-minute Wall Street is a poor indicator of to-the-minute Main Street's status.

[Nelson]

“ it's close as possible to the sun will rise over Japan before US.”

Sure, if you ignore time as an element. Sure, the sun rises over Japan before the US, but not at midnight.

Just accept that a slow, steady growth in the market is ideal (you know, like the years before Trump took office) and wild swings with a high likelihood of steady losses (like it’s been since Trump took office) is one of the worst scenarios.

Chaos and erratic/extreme policy changes are terrible for markets. At least admit that is what Trump does.

[Dillinger]

>>Chaos

do you guys have a calendar with the daily words or are they shared in like text messages?

[Nelson]

“ do you guys have a calendar with the daily words”

What, you can’t identify the difference between stability and instability? That would explain a lot.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

And Nelson laughably uses the new leftist media word du jour lol.

[Nelson]

Dumbass, it’s a word used frequently in economic discussions. It isn’t limited to government policy, either. Markets can see chaos when there’s a pandemic or a tsunami or an unexpected war or a plethora of other events. Chaos, in the economy, merely refers to an environment where upheaval is certain, but how, when, and why that upheaval will either continue or stop is unknowable. Chaos, in investing, usually leads to panic selling by the less informed and holding by more experienced investors.

In this particular case Trump is creating uncertainty, but it’s the fact that no one can predict what he will do next or what part of the economy it will impact that makes it chaotic.

Until Trump’s policies have a logical basis and a goal that can be reached with the policies he implements (not happening so far), it will remain chaotic.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

How frequently you leftist fuck? Defend your assertion lol.

You keep making illogical assertions solely based on your own ignorance.

[Nelson]

“ Defend your assertion lol.”

Your lack of self-awareness is extraordinary. All I do with you is support my assertions while similtaneously showing how ignorant your (usually broad, vague, and unsupported) beliefs are.

I mean, shit. You linked to articles that basically said, “corrections happen, but the fact this one is the direct result of the President’s actions makes it very concerning” as proof that there’s nothing concerning going on with the fallout from Trump’s tariffs.

But if you need some data points, look up articles by The Wall Street Journal during any bear market. Chaos is a central theme, especially in situations like 2020, 2009, 1999, and 2987 just to name a few.

Business fears chaos, which is why it is discussed often.

[Incunabulum]

Cost *who* trillions of dollars?

Are are you now saying unrealized gains are real - and thus taxable? Bernie, is that you?

The value of an asset declined - no one actually lost any money except those who make a living trading and got caught short.

[Quicktown Brix]

Do you know what opportunity costs are?

[Dillinger]

fomented reaction 🙂

[Nobartium]

Socialists always out themselves.

[Nelson]

“ no one actually lost any money except those who make a living trading and got caught short.”

Or retirees who are living on their investments. But fuck those people, right? They should have been rich to avoid such problems.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Did they sell everything last week dumbass?

[Incunabulum]

If my house loses value I have not lost anything, not a single dollar.

[Nelson]

Unless you have to sell your house and can’t wait out the market. Like most retirees. People can’t say “I will take a huge loss if I sell now, so I just won’t eat for the next three weeks.”.

Your “it’s no big deal” scenario only works if you have the disposable income necessary to wait out a bear market. And the fact that it is a completely self-inflicted wound won’t be lost on anyone with a brain.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Which retirees cahs out their entire 401k or IRA immediately?

Way to prove you know Jack shit about finances.

[Nelson]

It all, dumbass. ANY cash out that is a loss is damaging to a person’s finances. You really understand absolutely nothing about investments and finance, do you?

What, you think that people should just be happy that they have to sell a stock for over 10% less than they would have three months ago? So your rallying cry is, “Be happy that you got 90% of what it used to be worth!”.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

You really continue to prove how ignorant you are of finances.

What is left in their accounts will go up and down for the life of their investment. It will not always go up. 2022 is an example.

But you keep inferring that any drop is catastrophic. Because you're financially illiterate pushing ignorant appeals to emotion like a bog standard Democrat.

[Incunabulum]

In other words - unrealized gains are not real and there is no legal right to an economic return.

Same shit they NYC cabbies were told when Uber made their medallions worthless.

[Nelson]

Correct. So if you can afford to hold your investments or have enough money to take speculative positions, things are great. But most retired people who are invested aren’t like that. They have to sell in order to have cash to live.

But screw those people, eh? They can just suck it up because Trump is going to make everything better by (mumble, mumble, mumble).

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Nelson continues to show his financial ignorance.

The ups and downs occur constantly. It is not only increasing over time.

This happened in fucking 2022 dumbass.

It is amazing how little you understand financially.

A financially astute retirees will keep a set percent in bonds or money market accounts to ride through the dips in the market.

Are you so fucking ignorant you don't understand this?

[Incunabulum]

We all pay the price for the gambles no matter which party is in office but you weren't concerned about the gambles the Democratic Party makes with people's lives.

[Nelson]

There is a difference between self-inflicted wounds, especially ones that any fool (well, any fool except Trump) could see would be the inevitable result of such policy choices, and the normal vagaries of the market.

People who invest understand why the market has tanked since Trump took office. His desire to gaslight them with phrases like “Fentanyl Tariffs” isn’t going to work unless they are complete idiots or complete sycophants.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

You've proven this entire thread you don't understsnd the markets or have investments lol.

Go back to reddit. More your intellectual level.

[Nelson]

Really? You’re the dumbass who doesn’t even understand the basics about what tariffs would look like depending on what the goal is. And that’s not even taking into account your truly ignorant belief that tariffs can actually help fix any of the “problems” Trump sees.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Wut?

You keep defending yourself with ignorant assertions.

You have said nothing of worth today.

[Incunabulum]

The Biden and Obama wounds were also self-inflicted - but you don't care about those.

Orange man bad.

[Nelson]

Yes, I really suffered when the S&P grew over 26% last year. Shit, if Trump could make me “suffer” like that, I could buy a new vacation home.

The economy did great under both Biden and Obama. The fact that you can’t differentiate between inflation and investing is notable.

Inflation was high in Biden’s first year, then decreased steadily from then on. The market did great the last 3 years of his presidency and unemployment was low. That is a good economy.

Note that Trump is instituting policies that will spike inflation AND crash the stock market at the same time. Give me Biden and Obama’s economy every day over Trump’s first and second (trending worse) terms.

Why don’t you tell me you are fiscally illiterate without saying it? Oh, wait. You just did.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Claims he isn't a Democrat lol.

And yes. Obviously this is shrike.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Not an old school Democrat, but definitely a new-age Democrat who likes multiple phony genders AND money. You know, our new elites.

[Quicktown Brix]

but you weren't concerned about the gambles the Democratic Party makes with people's lives.

Bullshit! Why do you think I'm so opposed to this leftist managed economy? I'm not a democrat like Biden and Trump.

[Nelson]

“ to force the other guys into complying.”

Complying with what, genius?

“ has reliably informed me that Trump's too dumb for that.”

He is.

You have yet to tell us, despite being repeatedly asked, what exactly you think Trump’s end goal is. Since there are three major outcomes of tariffs, based upon their size and duration, and they are mutually exclusive, you can only choose one.

So what is he trying to accomplish? Or are you so dishonest you will just claim that he is trying to get “them” to “comply” without explaining which “them” and what he is trying to force them to comply to?

Oh, right. That’s exactly how dishonest you are, since that’s exactly what you just did.

[Incunabulum]

You have been told.

The end goal is either zero tariffs across the world or onshoring more industry in a world where the US is no longer a place other countries can dump their excess production.

Will either of those things happen? Fuck if I know. Will we get royally screwed? Fuck if I know.

But those are the end goals.

[Nelson]

“ The end goal is either zero tariffs across the world or onshoring more industry in a world where the US is no longer a place other countries can dump their excess production.”

Which just proves my point. You can get one or the other, not both.

To get zero tariffs you have to have high tariffs that remain high until the other country goes to zero, then they immediately go to zero when the country complies. That’s absolutely not what Trump is doing, since the countries that have either gone to zero (like Israel) or offered to do so have not seen the required response from Trump.

To boost domestic manufacturing, you have to have high tariffs that remain in place despite any behavior by other countries. This is because it is the only way to increase costs on imports from low-production-cost countries. This is also not what is being done, since they are swinging wildly all over the place, not being set high and staying there.

So if those are two things that he’s trying to accomplish, he is doing it wrong.

If, on the other hand, he is trying to do something else (like eliminate our trade deficits), we’re really, really screwed. There is no realistic way for the government to eliminate trade deficits (which are all voluntary business done between private people and companies). And tariffs will have zero effect on trade deficits. They literally can’t fix the problem. It’s like trying to use a curling iron to cut a 2x4.

“ Will either of those things happen?”

There is exactly zero chance what Trump is doing will achieve those goals because the way he is using tariffs can’t lead to either of those goals. It’s not a very difficult thing to understand. Even paleocons like Jesse could do it if they tried, they just refuse to engage on the details because they know in their hearts that Trump is full of shit.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Zero chance!!!!

Reads even MSNBC and sees 130 countries negotiating. Lol.

[Nelson]

Negotiating what? You think that is a win? “Negotiating”?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Maybe stick to the designed plays at least for the first set of downs.

[Randy Sax]

Trump's more of a "Fuck it, Vance is down there somewhere" and chucks it kind of guy.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We wanted to uncomplicate it from a lot of other companies, because we want to make our chips and semiconductors and other things in our country...

Just like with the kraut eggheads in Operation Paperclip, we're going to import a lot of chinamen with little hands or whatever to make this work.

[Bubba Jones]

Starbucks *is* a factory that makes lattes.

Subway manufactures sandwiches.

I manufactured your mom.

This is much more useful than most of the crap we buy from Chinese factories.

[MyPublicName]

My heads going to explode trying to understand that joke. Please don't explain it the mystery makes it better.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

"I manufactured your mom."

That was useful.

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

Is Bubba one of the Weird Science kids?

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"This is much more useful than most of the crap we buy from Chinese factories."

"We"? Got a turd in your pocket?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I suggest the administration figures out who controls the message, whatever it is, as it changes every day.

This guy has no idea how to negotiate.

[Nelson]

Nor, for that matter, does Trump. He only knows how to use a big stack to overwhelm those who aren’t as wealthy. He sucks as a negotiator and a businessman, but he is a wizard at overpowering weaker opponents and suing anyone who offends him.

Remember this is the guy that, had he invested his entire inheritance in bonds, would be vastly more wealthy than he is now. When your returns can’t outperform the bond market over 50 or so years, you are a terrible investor. If you claim to be a businessman, the only reason you didn’t go bankrupt … oh, wait, he did that multiple times … I mean go broke is that you started with too much money to fail.

[Truthfulness]

Trump got dozens of countries to negotiate with him and his administration. You don't know jack about how the economy works.

[Nelson]

Negotiate what? A vague assertion that countries are “negotiating” is worth exactly nothing.

Especially considering the source, who is notorious for … let’s call it “overstating the situation”.

Unless you think an undefined “negotiation” should count as a win? That’s a bit premature, don’t you think? Especially given the certain and demonstrable negative consequences he’s inflicting on Americans.

[Fist of Etiquette]

WHY TARIFF BANANAS?

Come, mister tariff man, tariff me banana...

[Fist of Etiquette]

Seems like this was probably used before. Maybe even by me.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Deja vu all over again.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Get out of my head!!!!!

[Medulla Oblongata]

Facebook group Dull Men's Club hardest hit.

[mad.casual]

WHY TARIFF BANANAS?

THEY TARIFFED BANANAS?!?!?!?

[Summons Science-tech-nerd, Boomer, Dad joke God powers...]

K

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

Now I’m tariffied.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

I thought it was tariffic.

[Small w woodchippertarian]

My banana seems to be the subject of a boycott, so I'm not so worried about tariffs.

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Trump has made it clear America cannot rely on China to manufacture critical technologies...

I'll say. Have you seen what tariffs are doing to that?

[Fist of Etiquette]

I just got a notice in the mail that the city will be fining residents if they fail to compost.

Does tossing garbage onto the sidewalk count?

[Randy Sax]

I've never lived anywhere where recycling pick-up was even a thing.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

For most states it isn't a thing. They just toss it in the landfill anyways.

China stopped taking the "recycling" so they throw it.

[Randy Sax]

When I was in VA they had giant incinerators that reduce it all to ash. But then the ash ends up in the landfill. When I was in Jakarta they also burn their trash. But in a barrel on the street, not an industrial incinerator.

[Think It Through]

Well reducing things to ash (aka "burning") does reduce the volume by several factors.

And most Americans used to have a burn barrel for trash as well.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

I'm sure labels were removed...

https://www.sheetlabels.com/blog/how-to-remove-labels-when-recycling-containers

[Nelson]

I live near Amish country and that’s a weekly thing on their farms. They burn on Mondays for some reason I’ve never puzzled out. But drive through SE PA on a Monday and follow the streams of smoke to the ground and it’s most likely an Amish/Mennonite farm.

[Truthfulness]

Glad they voted for Trump, people on your side just had to interfere with their lives.

[Nelson]

When? And what side? I haven’t seen anyone try to ban trash burning in PA. If they did, I would point out it’s a terrible idea.

[soldiermedic76]

Some hospitals have taken to burning their bio waste and sharps and using the heat to make electricity or for steam heating. Several dairies and feedlots also digest their manure and then use it to make electricity for the dairy or feedlot. I don't think the hospitals actually make any money on their burning but it does reduce the cost of having a third party dispose of it (also by incinerating it). For the dairies and feedlots, it's making use of a byproduct of the business (they also tend to use the waste water to irrigate their hay fields or corn fields).

[Nelson]

That seems like a really good way to do things. Upcycling from paper plates to electricity? Smart.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Stop pretending you're libertarian shrike.

You always go and randomly add comments after getting called out. Pretty hilarious.

[Nelson]

What, it isn’t smart? Why not?

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

In my town our carefully sorted recycling all ends up in the trash after the company who shipped it to Indonesian waters shut down.

[Medulla Oblongata]

My mother, who's city provides a blue bin and a green bin and she lives in terror that I would accidentally put recyclables in the trash (green bin) instead of the blue bin. There's a whole big notice pasted on the blue bin of what is supposed to go into it.

Being a helpful son, one morning when I was visiting, I rolled the bins down on pick-up day. The truck came by while I was doing some yard work. The guys picked up both bins and dumped them both into the back of the truck.

[VinniUSMC]

Precisely. It's a racket.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

OMG, THEY’RE GONNA THROW YOUR MOM IN JAIL!!!!

No worries though. Bubba can make a new one for ya.

[Bubba Jones]

It's common in Texas. I have separate bins for trash and recycling.

Which is great because it gives me a dedicated bin for all the cardboard boxes from Amazon.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Not sure what liz is complaining about.

Feed rats. Rats poop. Compost.

[Eeyore]

I put my compostable garbage in the street.

[Randy Sax]

I'm just glad we put a tariff on bananas, who knows how many accidents would happen with all those peels on the road.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Or stuffing them up tailpipes.

[Eeyore]

The banana peel is nothing compared to the slime that grows on the rotting lettuce I didn't get around to eating.

[Nelson]

Is that the produce version of bears in trunks? Because I hear those things are a menace.

[Truthfulness]

Ask your comrade Jeffy on that one.

[Nelson]

That was the joke. It was an absolutely ridiculous premise he spun up, which is why referencing it as a follow-on to a joke about the hazards of banana peels is funny. Obviously humor isn’t your thing.

[Medulla Oblongata]

We feed a lot of the compostable garbage to the chickens. OTOH, I live in BFE and have to drive 6 miles to take my own trash and recyclables to the local solid waste center, aka "the dump".

[Fist of Etiquette]

I want to be extremely clear: Working in a factory sounds bad.

This may not be a universal sentiment.

[Spiritus Mundi]

So bad it is better to send factory jobs to countries with lax labor laws and a spotty human rights legacy.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Cato thinks so.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

The WEF, too. I wonder if they are buddies.

[Incunabulum]

Apparently we can't do without a permanent underclass that we can exploit for their labor - whether they are inside the US or overseas.

The overseas underclass are for the really nasty jobs like burning trash in open pits to recover metals and iPhone factory slave labor - stuff you don't want to have to see.

[Nelson]

Right? I look at Nike’s response to discovering their child labor supply chain in the 80s and Apple’s a decade or so ago and wonder why people think Apple is so good and Nike is so bad. Both found out about labor abuses, but only Apple said, “Oh, Foxconn is using slaves to assemble our iPhones? Oh, well. People won’t stop buying them.”.

The worst part is that they were right.

[Nelson]

Obviously you’ve never worked on international supply chains. No one wants the headaches of those types of countries, like Bangladesh, which is why places like Vietnam, India, and Indonesia are so popular. The Philippines were getting a good reputation before Dutarte took power. They may be getting it back these days.

[Truthfulness]

That has nothing to do with the terrible working conditions that's been happening. If Dutarte put an end to that in his country, then good on him.

[Nelson]

Terrible working conditions where? Most companies want nothing to do with an “exploited labor” story, which is why most avoid bad factories like the plague. You can save a dollar an hour if you don’t choose a reputable factory, but it isn’t worth it. That’s why vetting new production facilities usually takes a year or so.

“ If Dutarte put an end to that in his country, then good on him”

It was the corruption and cruelty of Dutarte that made companies avoid the Philippines. There were credible reports of political prisoners being used as slave labor. It’s easier to just look somewhere else than risk a situation like that.

[Idaho-Bob]

I work in as aerospace factory. Is it glamorous? No. Does it pay well and offer all of the benefits (insurance, 401k, PTO, sick time, etc)?
Yes.

It's in a small town and people want to work here.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Weirdo.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Nobody considers well-paid engineers to be factory or industrial workers, but they very often are.

They only imagine factory workers as thousands of ladies in a giant room sewing Nikes.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Or fat bald guys according to the Chinese meme factories.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

That video was actually kinda funny.

[Don't get eliminated(Don't forget to eat your penguin meat)]

WHY WERE THEY ALL SO FAT?!

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

The Chinese are sticklers for accuracy.

[Idaho-Bob]

Engineers, HR, purchasing agents, planners, logistics, inventory management, quality control, etc.

Just like WalMart, not everyone is a floor worker.

[Bubba Jones]

This is the thing. People imagine union jobs assembling cars and rockets.

Most manufacturing ain't that. It's repetitive motion disorder on a stick.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Most of that is automated except when Uighur slaves are cheaper.

[Incunabulum]

You mean you don't want to live in a shitty apartment and smoke weed all day and getting paid for welfare?

Racists

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Yeah, but don’t work too much OT or your checks will shrink.*

*So I’m told, anyway. I have never experienced this phenomena firsthand, despite working copious amounts of OT in aerospace facilities. Seems to be a huge problem in Maine.

[mad.casual]

My favorite part is that you can almost feel the contextual glare that's being omitted.

Journalist: Hello fellow citizen! Have you heard about how terrible the tariffs are today? We're conducting a poll! Do you think the US would be better if if more people would shut up and do their jobs?
Fellow citizen: [Avoids eye contact] Uh... yes... I guess?
Journalist: Why, fellow citizen! Have you considered that it would be *you* who should be told to shut up and work in the factory? Do *you* want to work in a factory?
Fellow citizen: [Hard stare] No. Until this very moment I had not considered the idea that anyone, anywhere, ever would tell me what to think or to shut up and learn to co... I mean do my job.

This has been Liz "America runs on Cheap Stuff" Wolfe, reporting to you live from the consumption capital of the world.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Whats hilarious has been the response.

"See! 80% of people won't work these jobs!"

The people who would are 10x the current population of those who already do.

[Randy Sax]

I only work in heavy industry so that's all I can speak for, but manufacturing isn't in the 1920's anymore. It's not I Love Lucy at the chocolate factory, it's driving forktrucks, operating cranes, and sitting in pulpits. Nothing wrong with that kind of work, but the process is much more automated now a days.

[Bubba Jones]

People think that "manufacturing" is somehow different from the hell jobs in Amazon warehouses with time quotas.

[VinniUSMC]

It doesn't seem like you know what manufacturing is, what Amazon jobs are, or what anybody thinks.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Yeah, but he knows about manufacturing moms.

[Nelson]

“ "See! 80% of people won't work these jobs!"”

That’s not the point. The point is that people wouldn’t work those jobs for the wages they would have to accept to make American manufacturing of mass produced products competitive.

I don’t know anyone who would work a factory job *for $3 an hour*. Do you?

[Truthfulness]

Current factory jobs do not hire for $3/hour. Quit being so disingenuous.

[Nelson]

They do in Vietnam and India and Indonesia. Less, actually. That’s who American factory workers are competing against. Which was clearly the point I was making.

[Mickey Rat]

Seeing the professional journalists to self report they have absolutely no empathy for or undrrstanding of people that might have different motivations and interests than themselves. They cannot seem to wrap their heads around the notion that people might want to work at jobs they would never consider so therefore such people must not exist (except for the foreign underclass, of course).

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Food and goods just magically appear in stores. Ask a journalist.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Yeah, why can’t everyone just live in cities and leave all the farmland to waste?

It’s ridiculous how many times that pops up on Reddit.

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

The same people during Covid thought everyone should stay home and have food delivered.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Maryland passes law to go after catholic church, providing lawsuits against them for abuse of minors. Forgets to exempt the government. Finds out there is a shit ton of abuse in public institutions such as schools. Quickly passes law to help limit damages against the state.

https://notthebee.com/article/maryland-scrambles-to-gut-their-child-victims-act-as-child-sexual-abuse-cases-against-the-state-mount?from_social=twitter

[Idaho-Bob]

That is some classic democrat shit right there.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

If there was a button in front of me that if I were to press it and all pedofiles, and pedofile supporters would die. I would instantly press it. The results would be
100% of the T and Qs dead
70% of the lgbs would drop dead
70% of democrats would also die.
The world would be a better place

[MyPublicName]

You forgot to mention SPB.... or did you?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Considering that SPB is a Democrat and a pedo…

[Mickey Rat]

Something about motes and planks in eyes.

[Michael Ejercito]

Who said such a thing?

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

The incidents of public schools versus the Catholics is way over 1000/1. The whole pedo-priest thing was just part of the elite attack on Western social structures.

Not to say it didn't happen, because most priests are gay and most of the victims were older teens, and that still qualifies as far as I'm concerned. But the establishment media definitely played it up so as to seem that it was a huge epidemic.

In reality, the top three institutions for child sexual abuse are:
1. Children's services (Particularly Youth Corrections).
2. Youth sports leagues
3. Public schools

The Catholic church doesn't even come close.

[Fats of Fury]

The LBGT gang went after the Boy Scouts relentlessly to let them in.
Under Gates The organization relented. A decade later I hear ads from Lawyer Inc, "If you or a loved one suffered abused by the BSA help us help you help me to get the compensation we deserve."

[Michael Ejercito]

The law was changed to enable lawsuits arising from conduct dating back to the 1960s!

[Nelson]

Unfortunately we aren’t allowed to give pedophiles life without parole. And churches have managed to be immune to financial repercussions and discovery of their actual records. With the exception of PA, we only know about the priests they want to tell us about.

[Jefferson Paul]

because most priests are gay

I have no love for the Catholic church, but even I, an atheist, would need some evidence for this claim. I don't even know how you would conclude that most [Catholic] priests are gay. Are there polls of Catholic priests that show this, did the Church admit this, etc.?

[Nelson]

“ The incidents of public schools versus the Catholics is way over 1000/1”

It is not. And considering there are 35k priests and over 3.8 million teachers, a ratio of 100/1 would still leave the abuse rate among priests higher. Then, of course, there is the fact that the Catholic Church is an organized and wealthy group that actively interferes with investigations, tampers with witnesses, hides offenses, helps pedophiles escape jurisdictions (and even countries) to avoid prosecution, refuses to turn over their records of pedophile priests, and constantly obstructs attempts to hold them accountable.

There aren’t even a handful of school districts, let alone states, never mind nationwide efforts to protect pedophile teachers. In fact the vast majority of cases involve fellow teachers helping, not hindering, investigations and prosecutions.

This fantasy that the Catholic Church isn’t an international pedophile ring and teachers are is one of the most disgusting narratives that conservative wingnuts peddle.

The Catholic Church, to this day, protects and facilitates pedophiles. They have never been held accountable. They never will be. And if you think there aren’t still pedophiles throughout the priesthood, I hope you never leave your son alone with Father Trust-Me-I’m-A-Priest.

The cases that we know about indicate that almost 6% of priests since 1950 are pedophiles. And that’s using strict, data-driven analyses by neutral third parties (https://www.bishop-accountability.org/AtAGlance/USCCB_Yearly_Data_on_Accused_Priests.htm). And that’s what we know based on just who they failed to hide, behavior which they have actively, systematically and internationally engaged in.

So please stop with the “teachers are pedophiles, but religious leaders aren’t”. Religious leaders are more, not less, likely to sexually abuse minors than teachers.

[Nelson]

“ In reality, the top three institutions for child sexual abuse are:”

According to religious groups? Because that doesn’t seem to match with available data and it never mentions that only the Catholic Church has a century-plus long history of hiding pedophiles, moving them around to unsuspecting parishes, and actively interfering with the reporting of and investigation into pedophile priests. Teachers are notable for helping victims and law enforcement. Religious groups are the exact opposite.

[Medulla Oblongata]

https://apnews.com/article/health-los-angeles-business-sexual-abuse-lawsuits-1312681a48a861b366b1bae222d647fc

Lawsuit: LA shelter for kids was a den for sexual abuse

LOS ANGELES (AP) — A Los Angeles County-run shelter meant to be a safe space for children as they awaited placement in foster homes was for decades a den for sexual predators among the staff — and some residents — who preyed on children as young as 5, according to a lawsuit filed Thursday by dozens of former residents.

Some of the more than 30 plaintiffs spoke at a news conference and wept and trembled as they detailed abuse and some victims’ attempts to escape the hall’s barbed-wire fences and guarded gates. Among the victims was a 6-year-old boy who in 1990 was molested by a male staffer who locked the boy in a closet as punishment for screaming during the assault, according to the lawsuit.

[Michael Ejercito]

Why did he not sue twenty years ago?

[Nelson]

This is why those who interact with children need to be vetted. We all know that pedophiles are drawn to places where children gather. And they are masters at identifying and manipulating those who are vulnerable.

Any group that deals with at-risk children need to always have the fact that they are the ideal hunting ground for pedophiles front-of-mind.

Personally I think sexual abuse of a minor should have punishments that include life without parole and no statute of likitations. I also think that anyone who helps, hides, or facilitates the abuse of a minor to be subject to the same penalties.

My father was raped when he was 9 by a priest that went on to be moved to 7 other parishes and abused a total of 12 boys that we know of. Because the Catholic Church denied he abused anyone, there were probably more victims at postings before he was ordained and after he “retired”, so it’s only the 12 were found at the places he was bounced around to.

By the way, he died 72 years later and it was one of the last things he spoke to me about. It haunted him his entire life. He died still feeling ashamed that he was raped. It was one of the most heartbreaking things I’ve ever experienced. He said, “No one would believe it … well, maybe they would now.”.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hundreds of thousands of Cuban migrants came into this country via temporary humanitarian parole programs, which may now be revoked under President Donald Trump.

Turning Florida blue again.

[VinniUSMC]

Why didn't barely-any-better-than-ENB Liz quote something Trump said, instead of link to a pay-walled Bloomberg article that may or may not actually include any sort of proof that this is other than some "sky is falling" speculation?

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

New study front Cleveland Clinic shows those who get the flu vaccine actually had a higher chance of catching the flu last year.

https://pjmedia.com/benbartee/2025/04/13/vaxed-healthcare-workers-27-more-likely-to-contract-flu-study-n4938854

[Idaho-Bob]

I just a study bout the flu vax and the elderly. The more elderly who were vaxxed, the flu death rates did not drop. At all. The infected numbers didn't change either. It's like the flu vax is saline. This was reported by CBS some years ago, and people are revisiting the data.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

We'd probably be better off if it was saline.

[rbike]

I checkout Dr. Vinay Prasad. He seems to know the facts and not afraid to speak up.
I have 0 trust in modern medicine short of them splinting bones or sewing me back up.

[soldiermedic76]

Which is totally not surprising considering they base the vaccine on the variants most prevent in East Asia at the beginning of the year and hope they're the right strain, without to much mutations, by the time they send it out in the fall for North America and Europe. Of course, influenza, is fast mutating virus that is highly contagious (the more hosts the higher rate of mutation), ergo, it's barely better than a shot in the dark (pun intended).

[Medulla Oblongata]

"Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) made a surprise speech at Coachella,"

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/calif-punk-stalwarts-army-of-luigis-coachella-20274319.php

California punk rockers call for an 'army of Luigis' during brash Coachella set

Shortly after ending a blistering rendition of “Coup D’Etat” during their Coachella set, Circle Jerks frontman Keith Morris made a clarification to the moshing crowd. Although that last song ended with the words “kill all,” he made a point to say that the band does not condone what it describes, including kidnapping government leaders for ransom and leading a coup. “That song, that last line, ends with ‘kill all.’ That’s a pretty f—king ugly statement,” Morris said. “In ugly times. Do not think that we encourage that.”

Then, Morris went in a different direction. “What we do encourage — what would be totally f—king happening — would be an army of Luigis,” he said, in reference to Luigi Mangione, who is currently facing both federal and New York state charges for the alleged killing of United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson late last year.

https://www.sfgate.com/sf-culture/article/green-day-swaps-palestine-lyric-coachella-20273345.php

Green Day swaps in Palestine lyric at Coachella

“Running away from pain like kids in Palestine,” Armstrong sang, during a quiet moment in the song, drawing cheers from the audience. (The original line is “running away from pain when you've been victimized.”)

In Green Day concerts, it’s standard for Armstrong to swap out song lyrics to make political statements. Typically, Green Day focuses on national politics, with recent lyric changes taking aim at Elon Musk, Vice President JD Vance and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene. However this isn't Armstrong's first sign of support of Palestine: in February, he held up a Palestinian flag at a concert in Malaysia.

At the start of the band’s Coachella set, Armstrong swapped the lyrics of Green Day’s opening track, “American Idiot,” to declare, “I’m not part of the MAGA agenda” — a common substitution for that song. Otherwise, the group held back from making any political statements.

[Idaho-Bob]

Bernie "we are rapidly heading towards oligarchy" Sanders.

Since 1993.

https://x.com/DeepBlueCrypto/status/1910766817250848818

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Young adults spending on average 5k to attend a weekend concert complain about the rich.

[Dillinger]

my first Circle Jerks show was like a $10 entry at a club in New Jersey

[MK Ultra]

Shitty Gardens?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Green Day: raging for the Machine.

[Medulla Oblongata]

So does Rage Against the Machine. Leftist to the core.

Critics have noted Rage Against the Machine for its "fiercely political music, which brewed sloganeering left wing rants against corporate America, cultural imperialism, and government oppression into a Molotov cocktail of punk, hip-hop, and thrash.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Green Day: Hoping for a 5th fan.

[Mickey Rat]

So that band says the sentiment "kill them all" is too ugly to encourage but they do encourage an army of murderers? How appropriate that they named themselves "Circle Jerks".

[VinniUSMC]

Is it too much to ask, for Coachella to be the site of an enormous flood that ends with all of the attendees and performers buried under 6 feet of mud?

[soldiermedic76]

Almost happened last Burning Man, to bad we rescued them. Including my creepy cousin who is ten years older than me (I'm staring 50 in the face really close these days) and still is going to Burning Man.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Is it even possible to be an edgy “punk rocker” in your 60s?

Posers.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Only until nap time.

[MK Ultra]

Sex Pistols (w/o John) and Billy Idol are both on tour. Pistols sold out the 9:30 Club quickly @ like $100 a ticket.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

New media word chose to describe Trump is chaos. Oddly we've heard the same terminology from many of our one true libertarians here.

Video.

https://x.com/WesternLensman/status/1911097429253841028

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Almost like there's some sort of narrative being pu...
Naw.
I'm sure that the entire media and all the Jeffsarcs just started using the same buzzword at the same time coincidentally.

[Ajsloss]

They pounced.

[soldiermedic76]

Revolutions, even peaceful ones, political realignments, even peaceful ones, etc tend to be chaotic.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Well, that's just rude. And offensive to the ruling elites.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

It’s dubious chaos.

[Nelson]

Are you really trying to act like this is the only time that “chaos” has been used regarding the stock market? Don’t be an idiot.

Well, you’re Jesse, so I guess “try to be less of an idiot” is the best you can hope for.

[Fist of Etiquette]

An arsonist set fire to Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro's residence in the middle of the night over the weekend.

I think I'm going to peg this without evidence to the Free Palestine crowd.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Why would you assume terrorists would commit terrorism?

[Minadin]

It was a socialist.

https://notthebee.com/article/pennsylvania-governors-mansion-firebombed-by-socialist-wacko

[VinniUSMC]

It's a sarcjeff!

[Medulla Oblongata]

The news listed the pending charges to include "terrorism" so yeah, and the Jewish governor was attacked on PAssover, yeah I too assume it was a "free palestine" idiot.

[mad.casual]

Sentiment check: The biggest rally of the year would come on the day Lutnick gets fired.

I suggest the administration figures out who controls the message, whatever it is, as it changes every day. US business can’t plan or invest with the constant back and forth.

Vibe economy check: I'm feeling the vibe when economy rallies mightily upon termination of this week's ungood, anti-vibe administrator. Otherwise, the vibe economy is unsustainable with constantly fluctuating vibes and US businesses are unable to operate without top-down leadership vibes to fall in lock step behind.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

New Fantastic Four manages to be worse than the first 2. Goes woke. No flawed womanizing Johnny Storm. Woman power Ms Invisible.

https://ew.com/the-fantastic-four-first-steps-mcu-plot-character-details-cover-story-11712063?taid=67f7ebcc645bb3000131484d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+New+Content+%28Feed%29&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

[Idaho-Bob]

Jessica Alba was the only reason to watch the first movie. I do not recall ever watching the second one.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

I remember watching Jessica alba in Latex the movie, what was her charecter again.

And a Disney employee leaked they cast Pedro Pascal because he was a white passing Latino. Fuck them all

[Don't get eliminated(Don't forget to eat your penguin meat)]

I did an image search for “Jessica alba in Latex” and it was a bunch of disturbing “AI” images and cosplayers. Bummer.

[Dillinger]

AI screws up Jessica Alba in latex?

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

I ment spandex, and remember spandex is a privlage not a right

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

I loved Silver Surfer comics as a kid. I never cared about the surfer after the 2nd movie. It was that bad.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Should say my second was Adam Warlock who was forgotten in the infinity MCU movies and then made a clown in Guardians.

Damn you MCU.

[Dillinger]

^^ exactly this. they couldn't have done worse.

[sarcasmic]

Dark Angel

[Idaho-Bob]

What a terrible series. And I watched every damn episode.

[damikesc]

Chris Evans was a terrific Human Torch, honestly. He was the best part of the movie.

[Randy Sax]

They myth of the "modern audience" still prevalent it seems.

[Mickey Rat]

So they set the movie in an alternate universe in a super science version of the 1960's but with a moral sensibility to appeal to the "modern audience". It suggests that the writing will be thematically incoherent.

[mad.casual]

It suggests that the writing will be thematically incoherent.

Did you see where Disney slammed what has probably been their flagship IP for the last 80 yrs. into the side of a mountain because, suddenly, it was insulting to women and little diverse people?

Talk about "You had one job." We've had greeters doing this job in person, in the Florida heat, for 8+ hours every day, for pennies, for over half a century...

[mad.casual]

I binged (most of) Black Mirror Season 7. In a series that includes fairly explicit depictions of bestiality and people being hacked apart physically and mentally I couldn't finish the episode. Imagine an episode of Star Trek TNG where there's a holodeck accident and Wesley Crusher gets trapped playing the part of a black woman in the 1940s... and Awkwafina is one of the officers trying to rescue him.

Of course, despite being pretty objectively the worst episode of the season (if not the series, if not a terrible episode of Star Trek:TNG), Time Magazine declares it to be the unequivocal best.

[mad.casual]

I couldn't finish the episode

Episode 3 - Hotel Reverie - "A high-tech, unusually immersive remake of a vintage British film sends Hollywood A-list star Brandy Friday into another dimension, where she must stick to the script if she ever wants to make it home."

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"New Fantastic Four manages to be worse than the first 2."

And they said it couldn't be done!

[Medulla Oblongata]

Houthis up the stakes.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/falasteen-2-hypersonic-missile-hits-israel-s-top-secret-sdot-micha-base-in-major-escalation/ar-AA1CRwuN

Falasteen-2 Hypersonic Missile Hits Israel’s Top-Secret Sdot Micha Base in Major Escalation

On a significant day of military action, the armed forces of Yemen, known as the Houthis, launched a major missile strike targeting two high-profile locations in Israel. Two ballistic missiles were used in the attack: a Fajr-type missile and a hypersonic missile known as Falasteen-2 (Palestine-2).

Houthis Launch Powerful Strike with Hypersonic and Ballistic Missiles

The Falasteen-2 hypersonic missile was aimed at the Sdot Micha base located in eastern Ashdod, a city in the southern part of Israel. This base is well-known for housing rocket systems, including Jericho missiles and Arrow (Hetz) missile batteries. These systems are considered part of Israel’s strategic defense infrastructure.

One noteworthy aspect of this strike is the use of a hypersonic missile. Because they may fly at speeds greater than five times the speed of sound, hypersonic missiles are very challenging to detect and intercept. This marked a significant development in the conflict, as it was one of the first reported uses of a missile of this kind by the Houthis.

[Idaho-Bob]

Falasteen-2 missiles sound expensive and difficult to acquire. Wonder where they're getting them?

[Nelson]

Iran that question through my brain. I can’t Shi’a answer anywhere. I wonder where such weapons could Qom from?

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Whoopi goes full sarc. Complains about tariffs then seconds later says Americans need to pay higher income taxes.

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1910673728356209035

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

If she's gonna go full-Sarc she's gonna have to do all that while chugging a bottle of nail-polish remover.

[Chupacabra]

Never go full sarc.

[MyPublicName]

Full sarc?!?! I didn't know she drank that much.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Warn me when she goes full Jeffy and asks if someone is fucking his sister.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Now I'm gonna go down a rabbit hole about her defending immigrant rapists and pedos.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Where does he stand on just jacking off on his sister?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

I don’t think he’s specified that yet, but he does take an odd interest in whether R Mac does.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Mom in UK arrested for confiscating her daughters iPad so they can focus on homework.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/uk/surrey-police-uk-mother-arrested-childs-ipad-vanessa-brown/

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

But The Economist says Europe is the land of the free, now.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Yeah. That article is wild. They even admit to Europe arresting politicians. But call it freedom.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Well, it is freedom. Freedom for the elites and the bureaucrats to operate without criticism. They don’t give two shits about our freedom.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

It explains sarc calling democrats the party of liberty.

[Don't get eliminated(Don't forget to eat your penguin meat)]

A man in Leeds has been arrested and taken into custody after shouting

“come on England, come on England”

It’s fine to support Palestine but showing support for your own country will get you arrested.

This is modern Britain.

https://x.com/TheBritLad/status/1911501544203403298

[VinniUSMC]

Cum on England, or "Come on, England"? Asking for lying jeffy.

[Jefferson Paul]

Don't get me started about the song "Come on Eileen."

[VinniUSMC]

Well, whatever you do, don't finish.

[Medulla Oblongata]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/04/12/you-got-a-licence-for-that/

The most anodyne of everyday activities are now regulated, banned or criminalised by the state.

ndeed, in a very real sense, we are witnessing the criminalisation of everyday life. Increasingly, everyday activities, such as feeding pigeons, playing ballgames or merely standing in a group are being criminalised. Introduced as part of the Anti-Social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014, so-called Public Spaces Protection Orders (PSPOs) have granted councils in England and Wales astoundingly open-ended powers to invent crimes, and to punish them. As a result, there are now over 2,000 new legal codes banning many thousands of everyday activities, including sleeping in public or playing music outside. Labour’s new Respect Orders will only further empower the authorities to criminalise hitherto unremarkable behaviour.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2025/04/13/the-uks-free-speech-crisis-is-about-to-get-so-much-worse/

The Crime and Policing Bill could unleash terrifying new censorship powers.

It was this law that also led to army veteran Adam Smith-Connor being ordered to pay a £9,000 fine for silently praying in the vicinity of the same clinic as Tossici-Bolt. He was interrogated by police officers while standing 50 metres away from the clinic, behind a tree. The officers asked him what he was doing and when he told them he was praying, they probed further. ‘What is the nature of your prayer?’, one asked.

[BYODB]

‘What is the nature of your prayer?’, one asked.

Welp, that's it for Britain I suppose.

Back to monarchy they go!

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

How about instead of a trade war we seize all us land owned by the chinks, send back every one to china, arrest every chink that is stealing ip, and carpet bomb bejing and Wuhan. This would be a good start.

[Idaho-Bob]

Ain't gonna lie, you had me in the first half.

[Medulla Oblongata]

How does Rachel Maddow still have a job?

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/21/nx-s1-5305268/nbc-settles-lawsuit-ice-doctor-msnbc-maddow-georgia-detainee

NBC Universal has agreed to settle a federal defamation lawsuit filed by a Georgia gynecologist over coverage of allegations that he performed mass hysterectomies on female detainees at an Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility. The stories aired in September 2020 on MSNBC shows hosted by stars Nicolle Wallace, Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow.

U.S. District Judge Lisa Godbey Wood ruled in June that "the undisputed evidence establishes that multiple NBC statements are false."

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

How does Rachel Maddow still have a job?

She probably has some dirt on the head honchos at MSDNC.

[Michael Ejercito]

I rememeber when this was in the news.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Yeah, I didn't notice it was an older bit. The "random" MSN links that pop up in the empty tab as "news" does that sometimes, but it was news to me (hadn't seen it before). Sorry.

[mad.casual]

Hysterical feminists complaining of abdominal pain after getting their genitals handed to them told to put some ICE on it.

mad.casual 5 years ago
A normal person might stop and think "Sure, you say he's 'The Uterus Collector', but aren't you being a little hyperbolic?" But a normal person would get scooped.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

"How does Rachel Maddow still have a job?"

Millions of Boomers just like Sarcasmic.

[Nelson]

The same way Tucker Carlson does. The wingnuts will always validate their preferred narrative and support those who “report” what they want to hear.

And companies will always hire people who bring in revenue. If you look at the Fox lineup and the MSNBC lineup, they’re funhouse-mirror images of each other.

The free market is the best thing to happen in human history. But it isn’t called the always-rewarding-the-truth-tellers market for a reason. Freedom means people will lie to you for profit.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Another Chinese spy rolled up.

https://www.msn.com/en-in/crime/general/who-is-ming-xi-zhang-aka-sushi-john-ice-nabs-new-jersey-restaurant-owner-who-spied-for-china/ar-AA1COIZl

Who is Ming Xi Zhang?
In April 2024, Zhang was convicted of acting as an unregistered agent of the Chinese government. He was subsequently sentenced to three years’ probation. Zhang pleaded guilty in May 2021 to having served as an agent of China in 2016 without notifying the US Attorney General.

According to the ICE, Zhang legally entered the United States in 2000. However, he later “violated the terms of his lawful admission,” it added.

“Any illegal alien conducting activities related to espionage, sabotage or export control against the United States is subject to deportation,” said ICE Newark Field Office Director John Tsoukaris, according to the ICE website.

NJ.com reported that Zhang met with Chinese security officials in the Bahamas in 2016, and went on to deliver $35,000 to an unnamed person in New Jersey. He even confessed that he hosted a Chinese government agent at his Princeton home that fall, twice.

Zhang is now being held at the Elizabeth Detention Center awaiting immigration proceedings, a worker at his restaurant confirmed to the New York Post. “He’s doing good, I mean, given the circumstances,” the worker said. “But yeah, he’s just kind of waiting… to get let out.”

Following Zhang’s arrest, the community surrounding his eatery has been rallying around him and his restaurant. “The whole town has been really supportive,” the worker said. “Everyone’s been coming in, offering phone numbers, talking to his family . . . everyone’s really supportive.”

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Was Eric Swalwell fucking this one too?

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

There is a Russian scientist working for Harvard that got arrested and deported. NYT is apoplectic. Turns out she was trying to sneak biological materials through customs.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

The NYT was willing to defend someone who appears to be one of Putin's agents?

[Fist of Etiquette]

How ballooning insurance costs are affecting the nightlife industry and causing club closures.

Just mandate cheaper rates. Do I have to think of everything.

[Nelson]

The sad part is a disturbing number of people wouldn’t recognize that as sarcasm, but a desirable policy instead.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

On shoring semiconductor manufactoring was hard because of the Dei policies in place at the time. Tsmc literally said that can't build because they would have to hire unqualified people.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

TARIFFS!!!
(will Reason and other countries fret about 10% on every shipload on the planet?)

IMO Makes History with First Global Carbon Pricing Scheme for Shipping, Despite Mixed Reactions

In a landmark decision, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) has approved the world’s first meaningful global carbon pricing scheme for the shipping industry, marking a significant step toward maritime decarbonization. The groundbreaking policy, which will be formally adopted in October 2025, aims to achieve net-zero emissions by 2050.

In a landmark decision, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) has approved the world’s first meaningful global carbon pricing scheme for the shipping industry, marking a significant step toward maritime decarbonization. The groundbreaking policy, which will be formally adopted in October 2025, aims to achieve net-zero emissions by 2050.

Starting in 2028, ships worldwide must either transition to less carbon-intensive fuels or face substantial fees – $380 per tonne on their most intensive emissions and $100 per tonne on remaining emissions above a lower threshold. The measure is expected to generate $30-40 billion by 2030, averaging $10 billion annually, to support clean energy initiatives in shipping.

The vote revealed significant divisions, with 63 countries including major players like China, the EU, India, and Japan supporting the measure, while 16 countries, predominantly petro-states, opposed it. Twenty-five countries, including several Pacific Island nations, abstained.

The United States withdrew from the climate talks altogether and threatened “reciprocal measures” against any fees charged to U.S. ships.

Hon. Minister Ralph Regenvanu of Vanuatu expressed strong criticism: “Let us be clear about who has abandoned 1.5°C. Saudi Arabia, the US and fossil fuel allies pushed down the numbers to an untenable level and blocked progress at every turn.”

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Taxwa through regulations don't count apparently.

[mad.casual]

And as long as the regulation enforcement spans the entire globe, it doesn't affect international trade. It's not destroying comparative advantage itself, it's just a light touch adjustment of the arbitrage between two internal regions.

[Nelson]

With the added benefit of bringing back the sailing ships of yore for commerce.

[Eeyore]

Because taxes make the weather better.

[Don't get eliminated(Don't forget to eat your penguin meat)]

Wrong spot

[BYODB]

The vote revealed significant divisions, with 63 countries including major players like China, the EU, India, and Japan supporting the measure

Well of course they support it. They have no intention of following it, but they know the morons in the EU will neuter themselves and be entirely reliant on their non-compliance for shipping. This has been a large part of why so much industry has moved there in the first place.

The United States withdrew from the climate talks altogether and threatened “reciprocal measures” against any fees charged to U.S. ships.

As we should.

The measure is expected to generate $30-40 billion by 2030, averaging $10 billion annually, to support clean energy initiatives in shipping.

Yeah right, sure that's where the money will go.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) made a surprise speech at Coachella, the extremely expensive music festival in southern California (ticket price minimum, $500), urging attendees to fight for "economic justice."

I can see the Dems are on the comeback.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, wait. He's an independent.

I can see the independents are on a comeback.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Sanders is an In(D)epen(D)ent.

[Randy Sax]

Nobody needs that many kinds of music.

[BYODB]

Seems like Sanders know's his support base, gotta give him credit for that.

Pretty sure Malcom X had at least one speech bashing this specific kind of 'socialist' jackass. Not that I'm a big fan of his rhetoric, but he wasn't wrong on that point.

[Longtobefree]

Bonus points; those folks can't afford $500 tickets.

https://notthebee.com/article/watch-bernie-sanders-give-a-speech-at-the-coachella-music-festival-where-a-reported-60-of-attendees-financed-their-ticket-to-the-event

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

"Ezra Klein—has written the book Abundance, which aims to provide a new framework for what Democrats ought to prioritize."

Funny to have an entire podcast for the promotion of suicide

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Now how are the Democrats going to save Democracy in Arizona?

Arizona to begin removing as many as 50K noncitizens from voter rolls following lawsuit

All 15 Arizona counties have now begun the process of verifying and removing noncitizens from their voter rolls, including nearly 50,000 registrants who did not provide proof of U.S. citizenship.

"This settlement is a great result for all Arizonans," America First Legal (AFL) senior counsel James Rogers told Fox News Digital after his organization’s successful lawsuit spearheaded the process in Arizona.

AFL filed the lawsuit against the 15 Arizona counties last year on behalf of EZAZ.org, and Yvonne Cahill, a registered voter and naturalized citizen, arguing that the counties had not been following a state law that requires proof of citizenship to vote in local and state elections and for the state to do monthly checks of the rolls for noncitizens.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Thousands voted in the last election. Courts tossed the suit to disqualify them.

Democrats SoS. Democrat AG. State went red to purple after all these voters added.

This is why the DoJ under Biden and Obama fought so hard against Arizona laws requiring proof. And they ended up having to allow the federal form for federal elections that don't require proof.

[Nelson]

“ Thousands voted in the last election.”

Really? Got any reputable sources for that? I’m mean, even Kris Kobach could only find a dozen or so in Kansas and he was very highly motivated, since it was his signature issue.

Or are you pretending that someone on the voter rolls equals someone who voted? Yeah, probably that.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Liz, if you quote frank luntz you need to loose your pay for a week. Luntz has already been shown to lie about his results, and to alter questions and select specific groups to get the answers he wants.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Interesting story about FBI hiding information related to the Oklahoma bombing. Sounds like FBI was involved.

https://thefederalist.com/2025/04/10/why-is-trumps-doj-hiding-an-fbi-informants-deposition-on-the-ok-bombing/

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Of course they were. You can't legitimize spying on ordinary Americans without an excuse.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

That’s been long suspected, that the feds played a role in the OKC bombing and set McVeigh up to take the fall. There’s a hell of a lot of suspicious shit surrounding it.

[Dillinger]

faded memory: some chick wrote a book about fake Iraqis as part of the setup like 25 years ago ... and everyone of course canceled her

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Woo hold up there, it's not like the atf was told to not show up to work that day

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Kamala launches Institute for Policy and Ideas! Sarc. You've found your calling.

https://legalinsurrection.com/2025/04/kamala-harris-wants-to-launch-an-institute-for-policy-and-ideas/

[BYODB]

Someone should 'launch' an investigation into her campaign expenditures.

Her campaign appears to have used the Richard Pryor campaign strategy from Brewster's Millions.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Ideas!

[Nelson]

As much as I hate to seem to agree with you, I think this might be an excellent way to identify terrible policy ideas and kill them on their infancy.

[sarcasmic]

If Trump keeps changing his mind like this he won't be able to use tariffs as a political negotiating tool since no one will take him at his word.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

That's the point of a negotiating threat you massive retard. You change your mind when the target cooperates.

[MyPublicName]

Changing his mind? Is that not the point of tariff negotiations?

[sarcasmic]

What's the point of making a deal with someone who's going to change the terms on a whim or just abandon the deal despite you doing your part? Because that's what Trump has been doing.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

What deals have already been agreed to? They are negotiating said deals dumdum.

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Obviously you’ve never negotiated anything in your life.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

He did all the time in his youth. The school janitor said 15 pumps per cig, but Sarc negotiated him down to 13.

[BYODB]

It's unpossible that Trump meant for tariffs to be used as a cudgel to beat other countries with to reduce their own tariffs. Most talking heads can't bring themselves to even consider the idea.

Of course, it seems Pooh Bear doesn't like being called on this and is willing to fuck over his own people a hell of a lot more than Trump would probably be willing to go. I suspect Trump might need to relent on that, but at the same time it remains to be seen who's economy gets wrecked more by this so-called 'trade war'.

China is addicted to stealing our R&D, and we are addicted to their manufacturing. Sadly, we pay for their manufacturing when they get our technology for free. Actually, we pay them to steal it so it's even worse.

Anyone remember the so-called 'Climate Bomb' China threatened to release if the U.S. didn't pay them scads of money not to? Yeah, we paid them. That's the type of country we're dealing with.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Wait. Only you get to scream facts changed?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Is there nothing you don’t try to troll, Captain Chaos?

[Jerry B.]

"We don't know much about the arsonist's motives yet, but it certainly looks like another worrying case of political violence."

Oh, come on. everybody knows it was a MAGA. Just read the comments on this article in the Washington Post.

[Mother's Lament - (Sarcasian Meanister of Foreign Affairs)]

Nothing MAGA hates more than a notorious Zionist... oh, wait.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

According to the pictures posted, he isn't MAGA.

Most of what's come out is the state was foreclosure on his house. Seems economics based.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

It will take years to build out that type of capacity</i<

The laws of physics still apply? Tarriff them till they get in line!

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) made a surprise speech at Coachella,

Where was Pete Townsend when we needed him, again?

[Dillinger]

tipping his hat to the new constitution? taking a bow for the new revolution?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Pete + Woodstock + Abbie Hoffman = No speeches from commies.

[Dillinger]

oh ya that's right. my takes from Woodstock are Jethro Tull didn't go because they thought they'd be branded hippies, and Joe Cocker showed the world how properly to put one's soul into every second on-stage.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

All three fans outraged!
"Canadian Singer-Songwriter Bells Larsen Forced to Cancel U.S. Tour Dates Over Anti-Trans Visa Requirements"
[...]
"Larsen, a trans man, shared a post on Instagram saying that the American Federation of Musicians had emailed him this week, informing him that he was “no longer able to apply for a Visa because US immigration now only recognizes identification that corresponds with one’s assigned sex at birth.”
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/music-news/bells-larsen-forced-cancel-u-s-tour-dates-over-visa-rules-1236188840/

Gee, what if he was 5'-6" tall, but "identified" as someone over 7' tall?

[Eeyore]

So he can't just jot down she on the application?

[mad.casual]

"Canadian Singer-Songwriter Bells Larsen Forced to Cancel U.S. Tour Dates Over Anti-Trans Visa Requirements"

Trans male Canadian singer-songwriters Justin Bieber and Neil Young hardest hit.

[Nelson]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Justin Bieber described as a singer-songwriter. Even musician seems like a stretch.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

That’s perfect cuz Neil young can’t sing or write.

Or play.

[JFree]

companies "are hustling to onshore their manufacturing in the United States as soon as possible."

Aah.The super secret way to onshore manufacturing to the US as soon as possible. First - sell dollars so interest rates rise.

[BYODB]

It will take years to build out that type of capacity—and a lot of the parts we'd need to build the factories that come from…China. How exactly will this happen?

And therein lies the problem. It's like you can see the problem, and you know it's a problem, but you can't bring yourself to admit it's a problem.

Tariff's are not a great way to solve the problem, and there's a real chance it won't solve the problem, but any domestic solutions such as labor or wage reform are so deeply unpopular that there probably isn't a way to fix it at all. We're addicted to foreign labor and foreign lax regulation but can't bring ourselves to unchain our own labor and productivity. It's NIMBYism of the worst kind.

[mad.casual]

It's NIMBYism of the worst kind.

See my own and Jessie's posts about the gas lighting of "80% of people don't want to do labor" above.

The 3D printer/Maker/AI Revolution/Gig Economy is going to take off any day now. Until then, cheap stuff is awesome so here's the 40th article I've pounded out from my sleep pod between visits to closed playgrounds with my kids about how much tariffs and domestic 9-5 labor jobs would suck.

[BYODB]

I'll believe it when I see it.

They do give small businesses a host of carve outs below a certain threshold but that is inherently limiting growth by putting a cap on your business unless you can blow past that cap by a significant margin.

Much ink has been spilled over the so-called welfare cliff but nobody gives a fuck about the small business cliffs. The framing of the argument itself gives away the game.

[Nelson]

“ It's like you can see the problem, and you know it's a problem, but you can't bring yourself to admit it's a problem.”

Probably because global trade and trade deficits aren’t problems. What is it about hurting the profits of American companies and making things in the most expensive way possible that makes paleocons pop a boner?

“Tariff's are not a great way to solve the problem, and there's a real chance it won't solve the problem”

Ya think? Plus, global trade is not a problem.

“ but any domestic solutions such as labor or wage reform are so deeply unpopular that there probably isn't a way to fix it at all.”

Because no American will work for the wage that would be necessary to make mass market products here. If a product doesn’t involve IP, it will never be worth the added expense to make it here, unless you create a business model that makes you competitive with a much lower profit margin. In which case you’re a wizard.

“ We're addicted to foreign labor”

No, companies are addicted to staying in business. Bankruptcy isn’t a strategic goal unless you are Trump.

If you want to see a perfect example of how IP and non-IP supply chains work, here is an article that is quite good about the iPhone: https://www.androidauthority.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-3234349/

Note that the shift to India and Vietnam is a trend, as both provide high-quality production, low-cost labor, and was shipping to the US. Also, there is a large pool of factories whose labor practices and pay scales (relative to local incomes) wouldn’t cause negative press or bad optics for companies. About a decade ago, when I retired, both were actually becoming places that you could consider producing IP.

[Dillinger]

>>How exactly will this happen?

what's your plan?

[Dillinger]

>>Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) made a surprise speech at Coachella

omfg the ironing.

also, what kind of idiots don't cheer Brian May?

[Nelson]

LOL! I read this the first time and thought, “Yeah, he always looks wrinkled and crotchety, but… oh, irony.”.

And yeah, the irony is rich and juicy.

[Dillinger]

>>I just got a notice in the mail that the city will be fining residents if they fail to compost.

for a libertarian you sure seem to like getting bossed around.

[Dillinger]

>>We don't know much about the arsonist's motives yet

no way he was a T supporter then.

[Dillinger]

>>This about sums it up:

what sums up all this posturing for Wall Street is remembering who funds your paycheck.

[VinniUSMC]

Residents across the five boroughs are now required to separate their food scraps and yard waste from their garbage

They do this in Korea. It's interesting, and I don't know the entire system, but each apartment has an area where all recycling is sorted, all food waste goes to another location, and all trash is collected in another location. The trash bags are specific to the apartment, or address, or something.

My friend was fascinated when she was here that we had an in-sink garbage disposal. And wondered why we don't do more to recycle, when half of the time, the garbage company comes and tosses the waste, yard waste, and recycling all into the same truck...

[Eeyore]

That might be why nobody there is having babies, too much garbage sorting ruins the mood.

[VinniUSMC]

Nah, they're having a civil war between men and women. Similar to Japan. Young men would rather marry pillows than deal with the modern Korean feminist woman.

[Eeyore]

Because they are scary.

[VinniUSMC]

Scary, and not in a good way.

[Dillinger]

after listening to Dave Smith pretend to not understand Douglas Murray was telling Dave he's wrong for telling every podcaster he talks to the IDF shoots babies in the head because NYT said so this place started to make a little more sense

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Haven't watched that. Just saw a lot of Dave Smith OWNED Douglas Murray titles. Was wondering if it was all that or even worth listening to?

[Dillinger]

it's worth listening to ... I ff'd a bunch of Dave's obfuscation because he didn't wear the criticism well & didn't know how to get out of it ... Murray is clearly in another league and tried to be courteous

[Jefferson Paul]

You and I both watched it, but I came away with the opposite conclusion. Murray was insufferable. The majority of the time he was making appeals to authority, strawman arguments, and even nit-picking on Dave saying "we're at war" because Dave isn't the government--only to say, a few sentences later, "YOU'RE at war." How many times did Dave say he isn't an expert, and he doesn't call himself an expert, only for Murray, two minutes later, to say, "This is what I'm talking about. You call yourself an expert but..."

DM: Unless you're an expert, you shouldn't be speaking about this, and JR should have more experts on (as long as they say what I want them to say).

DM a minute later: I'm not saying you can't speak about this unless you're an expert.

DM: "You've never beeeeen!?" I don't speak on something unless I've been there (unless it's one of the many places I haven't been, like China and Iran). I had a guided tour by the IDF. The reason there's so much destruction is because Hamas is booby trapping the homes.

I'm sure there are booby traps laid by Hamas. Hamas is a death cult and evil. I don't think that accounts for the majority of the destruction. But, I don't know. I haven't had a tour of Gaza and I'm no expert.

[JesseAz (Prime Meanster of Sarcasia)]

Dave got real quiet when Murray started telling him about the tunnel systems and the booby traps left in residential areas.

Lots of appeals to emotions on Dave's side too.

[Dillinger]

I like Dave just fine I just wish he wouldn't singularly use NYT and Bloomberg as his cites and then say offensive stuff

a long time ago I was sitting in front of a gf's Marine father and said something unforgettably stupid about being too smart for anything but the military academies ... it's the impression I take away from "the IDF shoots babies in the head I saw the xrays"

[VinniUSMC]

I want to be extremely clear: Working in a factory sounds bad.

How about, % of people responding who've ever even been inside a manufacturing facility, or in Liz's case, even in the same zip code?

I work in manufacturing, in a position that does not strictly require a degree. I sit at a computer, play with CAD, program a machine, assure part quality to customer standards, in a strictly temperature controlled, clean environment. My position has a salary range of about $50-120k.

[Mickey Rat]

Don't you understand? That means you might even have to use math and know science! Can you not understand the absolute horror of such a prospect for a sensitive liberal arts major?

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

Yup.

[Randy Sax]

It sounds like you build panels.

[VinniUSMC]

Automotive, hot-stamping. Mostly things that protect occupants in a crash. Door beams, bumpers, a/b/c pillars.

[Eeyore]

When you have to visit the factory floor - I bet you can smell the machine oil or some other chemical. Doesn't that sound bad?

[Don't look at me! (No longer muted!)]

I bet you can smell the machine oil …

It smells like money being made.

[VinniUSMC]

For sure, not all of the jobs are awesome, but our lowest wage in the entire facility is something like $18. All you have to do is take some parts from a conveyor and put them in a box. Yeah, it can be hot on the shop floor, and you'll be standing, but you can use ear-buds and listen to music while you work. There's not much opportunity for major injuries.

Sounds terrible.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

'I want to be extremely clear: Working in a factory sounds bad.'

OK, how does earning some multiple of minimum wage sound?

I know the junior socialist league fucktards both hate money and demand more of it, but I wonder how they would choose between $10 an hour at the local used clothing emporium or $25 an hour screwing in tiny screws?

[VinniUSMC]

Note too, the shift in the questions.

Do we need more manufacturing jobs? Yes.

Do you want to work in a factory? Sounds bad.

What about, would you want to work in manufacturing, like 10s of millions of people already do?

Looking over that survey, all of the questions are... kinda shit.

[rbike]

"I work all day in a factory.
Building a machine that is not for me.
Must be a reason that I can't see.
Rehumanize yourself. Rehumanize yourself.
Policeman out on a uniform, gotta have a gun just to keep him warm.
Rehumanize yourself."

STING ( Gordon Sumner).

From memory so please forgive errors in the lyrics

Right out of college, I found myself working in that factory doing exactly that. Still working in a factory 35 years later. Nonstop employment and in greater demand than ever. And I was given the opportunity to achieve things that I could not have imagined in my youth.

[Eeyore]

Nothing about Colorado's new gun laws? I guess Libertarians are for gun control now?

[InsaneTrollLogic (Sarcasia’s disloyal opposition)]

Did you expect them to come out against Governor McDreamy?

[Medulla Oblongata]

Reason loves that Governor!

[Dillinger]

sadly I'm for skiing elsewhere now

[Eeyore]

I see they caught up today. Good.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Also polled...

“People are stupid.”

• 99% of Americans agree
• 1% disagree

“I'm stupid.”

• 1% of Americans agree
• 99% disagree

[Eeyore]

I know I'm stupid. I also know that Americans are even dumber than I am.

[Dillinger]

>>I know I'm stupid.

it's half the fucking battle to Happiness.

[Jefferson Paul]

"The cleverest of all, in my opinion, is the man who calls himself a fool at least once a month."

--Fyodor Dostoevsky

[jagjr]

"But onshoring manufacturing is easier said than done .... How exactly will this happen?"

at least as importantly, what CEO in their right mind would spend money to move capacity into a region with wildly fluctuating policies, no apparent rule of law, unpredictable costs, and hostile regulation even when it is reduced??

[Thought about __ all my life]

Don't be fooled by REASON"S Hillary-type reversals. They were gung-ho for Bernie and then they weren't

Bernie Sanders, First Libertarian Socialist?
Could he be two thirds of the way there?
Terry Michael | 9.15.2015