No, Elon: It Isn't Illegal To Boycott X
Elon Musk sues seven more companies for pulling advertising from his platform.

While news cycles in the first Donald Trump presidency were dominated by Trump's erratic social media pretense, news cycles during Trump 2.0 seem so far to be dominated by the erratic social media titan Elon Musk. The X CEO and leader of the newly created Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) made a splash last weekend after DOGE representatives were given access to the Treasury Department payment system. But there is another interesting—if less sensational—story involving Musk from this past weekend, and it's notable for the way it illustrates the facade of Musk's professed support for free speech and free markets.
On Saturday, Musk added seven new targets to a lawsuit accusing advertisers of violating U.S. antitrust law by choosing not to advertise on X.
Musk first filed this suit last August against the World Federation of Advertisers and the companies Unilever, Mars, CVS Health, and Orsted. In an amended complaint filed Saturday, he added Nestle, Abbott Laboratories, Colgate-Palmolive Company, Lego, Pinterest, Tyson Foods, and Shell.
Basically, Musk thinks it should be illegal for these companies to have simultaneously pulled advertising dollars from his company.
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Musk's suit alleges that these companies colluded in a way that violates U.S. antitrust law. The companies were all part of the World Federation of Advertisers and were "concerned that X, formerly known as Twitter, would stray from [the federation's] brand safety initiative called the Global Alliance for Responsible Media," reports NPR.
In response, the defendant companies and others either stopped or reduced their advertising spending on the platform. And as a result, X lost a lot of money, according to the suit.
This, in turn, made X "a less effective competitor to other social media platforms in the sale of digital advertising and in competing for user engagement on its platform," it states. In this way, the boycott allegedly violated laws against anticompetitive actions.
But in this case, X became less "competitive" because of its own actions and the actions of its founder. You can judge for yourself whether opposing Musk's new policies on Twitter/X was prudent or justified. But it is silly to suggest that companies shouldn't be allowed to oppose them just because it would make X less competitive.
Antitrust law cannot require private companies to continue associating with a company they don't wish to simply because ceasing business with that company will make it less competitive. That would be completely contrary to the ideas of free markets and open competition, and also completely contrary to the idea of free speech.
Musk tries to dress up his complaint in the language of choice and freedom, arguing that social media entities must be allowed to set their own moderation policies and that "collective action among competing advertisers to dictate brand safety standards" is bad for consumers.
And corporate entities have certainly been known to encourage atmospheres where speech—be that speech from employees, their own corporate speech, or the speech of platforms where they advertise—is overly "safe." (I once worked for a women's health website where we were forbidden from using the terms "vagina" or "rape" in headlines because advertisers didn't like it.)
But that is their prerogative. Private entities are perfectly free to encourage those they do business with to adopt certain values, and they're perfectly free to use private market mechanisms—such as boycotts—as part of this encouragement. Boycotts are a part of free markets and of free expression.
The alternative that Musk is demanding would be worse than a world of woke corporations and overly cautious advertisers. In this world, private market actors would be compelled to continue doing business with entities they wish not to and to broadcast their speech in venues they do not wish to. (Conservatives cheering on Musk should imagine how this would work out in other contexts. Do you want companies with conservative values to be forbidden from pulling ads from platforms that decided to promote porn, Kamala Harris, and DEI?)
To add credence to his antitrust claims, Musk suggests that pulling advertising was "against the unilateral self-interest of the advertisers" and "made economic sense only in furtherance of a conspiracy performed in the confidence that competing advertisers were doing the same." This falls apart upon examination. At the time Musk took over, many left-of-center people were upset about it and worried about the policies he would put in place. And many companies were (and are) concerned with appearing insufficiently attune to progressive speech standards and/or "harm" on social media more generally. Whether or not you agree with that, it's not unreasonable for such companies to worry about reputational harm that could harm their bottom line. It's also not unreasonable for them to have feared that an exodus of users would diminish the value of advertising on the platform, and to have temporarily pulled back spending to see how things shook out. In short, there are several legitimate business reasons why companies may have suspended advertising at that time.
The fact that these companies acted in tandem, not alone, is at the core of Musk's complaint. But it shouldn't make a bit of difference. Acting in tandem is how boycotts work. And boycotts—by individuals or corporations—are a form of protected speech.
Musk likes to style himself as a defender of free speech and free markets, but he's shown time and again that this principle falls to the wayside when it conflicts with his self-interest. This lawsuit serves as a perfect example.
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Repeal all anti-trust laws.
You said it.
Why would antitrust laws have been passed if there was no problem with monopolies?
Is this a serious question or sarcasm? The screen name indicates utter dipshittery.
So you’re suggesting that meddling progressives invented the problems associated with monopoly out of thin air in order to pass anti-monopoly law that would therefore have no effect since there was no problem.
Yes.
Spending time making completely useless law is practically libertarian.
We thought you died of a ruptured rectum.
Hoped, not thought.
He was busy campaigning for the LP.
He must have been Chase Oliver’s faggy behavior consultant.
Chase is too old. Too butch. Not fascist enough.
Law that is used to punish business for doing nothing wrong isn't libertarian, guy.
"anti-monopoly law that would therefore have no effect since there was no problem."
Get that, guys? Government laws have NO EFFECT unless it is to address a problem. If there is no actual problem, then they couldn't possibly have any other impact on markets, freedoms, people, etc.
Tony: Font of wisdom.
Such a thing would only have no effect if the law was intended to fix the issues they made up.
If those made up issues were instead a pretext to get a law passed that does *other thing* - then those other things will have an effect.
Out of the other side of your face you will argue that monopolies can exist, but they’re the fault of government favoritism or whatever.
I just struggle to see the logic behind the existence of antitrust law if monopolies are either impossible or the fault of government writing the law in the first place.
I’m sure I’ll witness a thrillingly intellectually enriching explanation shortly.
https://x.com/sama/status/1880303311842341152
My letter would have been more strongly worded.
Support fascists die on the same ash pile.
Tony: only criticism of politician using anti-trust threats to extort money from a private citizen is that the wording isn't strong enough. But it's the people who take issue with this who are fascists.
I see you're finally out of prison.
The prison of not interacting with libertarians defending fascism.
It’s in Scandinavia, naturally. Cushy.
Wow, did this guy just say this? The government wouldn't pass a law if there wasn't a problem?
The headline is wrong. Virtually everything is illegal under antitrust law, and kudos to Elon Musk for pointing it out.
Now let's end antitrust.
Virtually everything is illegal under antitrust law, and kudos to Elon Musk for pointing it out.
It's particularly questionable when the group of corporations involved isn't just coincidentally having a spasm of conscience, but are in fact members of an actual organization whose purpose is to use their market dominance to crush political dissent internationally.
I agree that anti-trust law does more harm than good, but that said, this right here seems like exactly the kind of thing anti-trust law is there for.
>and it's notable for the way it illustrates the facade of Musk's professed support for free speech and free markets.
MUSKMUSKMUSK!
Is the issue that Musk has a *facade* of support?
Which makes Obama/Clinton/Biden/Democratic Party in general's *open* support for censorship ok? 'At least they're honest'?
>Musk's suit alleges that these companies colluded in a way that violates U.S. antitrust law.
So the issue *isn't* that Musk thinks it should be illegal to not use Twitter. The issue *isn't* that Musk has a 'facade' of support for free speech.
The issue is that these companies may have colluded in this - which *may* be a violation of law.
Can this magazine's writers not separate their personal feelings for someone from that actual facts of a story? Can you guys not do *reporting* - or can you only do 'journalism'?
Turns out, Tom Edison wasn’t very popular in his day either.
He became an innovative force in IP piracy by putting his name on patent applications in front of the real inventors, notably Tesla and Steinmetz , that did the inspiring and perspiring at Menlo Park
Was he also known for creating spoof websites?
And what did he think of Comstock?
Can you? The writer addressed this point head-on. "Acting in tandem is how boycotts work. And boycotts—by individuals or corporations—are a form of protected speech."
This isn't just corporations acting in tandem. This is an organized industry group flexing their market dominance to dictate what media outlets can and can't publish.
This is exactly the sort of thing anti-trust law is supposedly there to counteract - i.e. corporations forming trusts to coordinate the behavior of the industry to the advantage of the member corporations.
Maybe that shouldn't be illegal, but under current US law it is.
We don't even know that.
It looks like that, its also looks like 'people just doing things' - depending on your personal bent.
Other than the actual industry group they formed to do this activity, sure.
Thing is 'boycotts by corporations' *may not be legal*.
That is the core here.
You don't have to think it should be illegal, but it MIGHT be - there isn't enough public evidence to know what these companies actually did or how legal it might have been. But that it might be - and Musk seems to think there was collusion in violation of law - is why he's filed the suit.
ENB is lying and she knows she is.
This isn't what happened:
"the World Federation of Advertisers and were "concerned that X, formerly known as Twitter, would stray from [the federation's] brand safety initiative called the Global Alliance for Responsible Media," reports NPR.
In response, the defendant companies and others either stopped or reduced their advertising spending on the platform. And as a result, X lost a lot of money, according to the suit.
This, in turn, made X "a less effective competitor to other social media platforms in the sale of digital advertising and in competing for user engagement on its platform," it states. In this way, the boycott allegedly violated laws against anticompetitive actions"
The the World Federation of Advertisers and its Global Alliance for Responsible Media is jointly operated by the Democratic Party and the WEF, plus a few other's like the British Fabian Society. It exists solely to reward media companies that cooperate and punish those that refuse. Stephan Loerke and Raja Rajamannar are both WEF young global leaders grads.
What they do is exactly what the mafia does and violates the laws of almost every country they operate in.
There is almost no way ENB doesn't know this. But Socialist fraud that she is she lies about it.
And of course this would bring in Tony to run defence.
Man. Haven't seen Tony for a while. And yet this retarded story by Elizabeth "The Sandwich Maker" Brown brought him mysteriously out of retirement.
Maybe ENB was Tony all this time, in addition to being White Mike. That... would actually explain a lot.
>Antitrust law cannot require private companies to continue associating with a company they don't wish to simply because ceasing business with that company will make it less competitive. That would be completely contrary to the ideas of free markets and open competition, and also completely contrary to the idea of free speech.
You're obviously not a lawyer.
The government makes laws all the time that are 'contrary to the ideas of free markets and open competition'.
And these are private companies. So whats your point?
You're obviously not a lawyer.
He is definitely not a lawyer.
He's a lawyer in the same way someone who has watched a lot of Law & Order and The Practice is.
Or maybe as much as someone who watched a lot of The Grinder is.
And unfortunately, there wasn't much to watch - the show ended too soon.
What does your response have to do with what I wrote?
Standard Oil was a private company, also.
ironically, Standard Oil wasn't a monopoly and actually brought fuel prices way down during its time.
Oh, I know - I'm just saying "but it's a private company" isn't actually a defense against anti-trust action. Obviously it's a private company - that's the whole point.
The government makes laws all the time that are 'contrary to the ideas of free markets and open competition'.
All anti-trust laws are this. You'd think an article in a "libertarian" magazine would point this out and argue for their abolition, instead of just "Musk = BAD"
That would make Musk's frivolous lawsuit even worse, of course.
"That would make Musk's frivolous lawsuit
even worse, of courseimpossible.Fixed.
What's the difference between Musk's claim and all the various anti-trust prosecutions against, apple, microsoft, etc, etc, etc in the past?
Because those were by the government?
The thing that shills like SRG are eliding, is that the Global Alliance for Responsible Media is sponsored by several governments, NGOs and the Democratic Party as a mafia-like censor.
They target and punish media companies that wander off the reservation. They are functionally illegal in almost every country they operate in.
the Global Alliance for Responsible Media is sponsored by several governments, NGOs and the Democratic Party as a mafia-like censor.
MoLa unaware that GARM no longer exists:
https://wfanet.org/leadership/garm/about-garm
SRG2 is fully aware that GARM was the one organizing an advertiser boycott of X, and was only shut down by The World Federation of Advertisers after the fact in hopes that it wouldn't get sued to fuck for what they tried to pull.
Everything thing you do is a lie or a twisting of the truth, weasel. How do you live with yourself?
You'd think an article in a "libertarian" magazine would point this out and argue for their abolition
I would expect that from a libertarian magazine. But we're in the Reason comments section here, mocking the corpse of a libertarian magazine, instead. Alas.
That's not where I thought the article was going based on the headline. And having now read the content, the article doesn't actually support the headline. It most certainly can be illegal under current law for corporate entities to form a cartel to boycott another corporate entity. I don't like that policy (because I'm deeply skeptical of most anti-trust law) but the current precedents are clear. Musk has a decent legal claim.
Note that the essence of his claim is "forming a cartel". Under anti-trust law, individual companies can do lots of things separately that they are forbidden from doing collectively. The author of this rant is ignoring this legal distinction.
Yeah that's my understanding. Businesses can of course advertise wherever they want. But if they collude to boycott a particular business they my run afoul of the anti trust statutes. I don't know how this will play out in court but I don't see this as a frivolous suit.
Making collusion by businesses illegal on testraint of trade against the publuc interest is more or less the definition of "anti-trust law". Whether or not this qualifies as a violation is beyond my expertise, but ENB seems more arguing against anti-trust law itself.
They’re not colluding, they’re individually deciding that it’s against their interest to advertise on a Nazi propaganda website.
Ha Ha Ha
Advocate of anti-trust law is upset when it's used by his enemies.
SPB's crown as dumbest commenter threatened by tony's return.
Is it the official libertarian position that companies should be forced to give money to other companies against their will?
My position is anti-trust law, and all other non-objective law be repealed. Not hard to understand.
You just described every civil lawsuit in history.
What’s the tort? I’m a whiny little baby named Elon who can’t succeed in business without government force on a massive scale? Is that it?
Is it? Historically, you’re the authority on being a mincing little bitchy queen.
How kind of you to say.
The potential tort is collusion in violation of anti-trust law. Its actually described in the article.
The tort *is not* 'we didn't pay to advertise on Twitter'.
I suppose it would be vulgar to mention the irony of a guy currently taking extralegal control of the entire federal government suing over market collusion.
Perhaps it’s more apt to explain that the suit is facially the most ridiculous thing ever.
a guy currently taking extralegal control of the entire federal government
Doesn't he work for the sitting president? How is that extralegal?
Does he? Does the president have the power to dissolve programs created by Congress? Do we even care as long as Daddy gives us the feel feels?
"I’m a whiny little baby named Elon who can’t succeed in business without government force on a massive scale?"
Just the world's richest man with the world's most technologically advanced companies built from nothing.
Musk is suing a consortium that was created and operated by the Democratic party and the IC. They are the very definition of government force on a massive scale.
Time to ask your handler for updated talking-points, Tony Baloney.
Again. You're in favor of anti-trust law. You can't complain when someone uses it.
You're in favor of anti-trust law. You can't complain when someone uses it.
You must not have met Tony before.
"They’re not colluding, they’re individually deciding "
That's your opinion, Tony. The suit alleges that the consortium is in fact acting as a cartel. It is for a court to determine whether or not it is accurate.
That said, the evidence is legion that not only is the consortium acting as a cartel, but that they were being egged on by NGOs directly funded by the State Department and other arms of government.
But I'm sure your opinions are waaaay more important than actual evidence.
How do Elon Musk’s tits feel when you’re rubbing your clit on them, or whatever it is fat lesbians do?
As the only libertarian left in existence apparently, I just think companies should be free not to advertise on Shitter if they don’t want to.
Glad to see there's another one true libertarian commenting here. You join the ranks of no lesser minds than sarcasmic, chemjeff, mike laursen, and shrike.
You don't even need an AI to copy Tony's little script.
1) Post a half baked argument
2) Change the subject when someone points out how stupid the argument is.
3) ...
4) Repeat
It's usually so tiring, but it's been so long since Tony vomitted in these threads that it has an amusing, almost charming retro feel to it.
At least I’m not sucking fascist cock every time I post.
The actual, by definition, fascists are the Democrats (and by a wide margin). You know, the guys you bottom for.
Democrats are a normal center-left progressive political party almost astoundingly free of corruption and bullshit relative to other political parties around the world.
Republicans are nationalistic xenophobic authoritarians filled with idiots.
Of course words can mean whatever you like.
You're deeply mistaken.
The Republicans aren't the ones supporting a terrorist group that wants a eradication of an ethnostate in the Middle East. That comes from your side.
You also failed what the supposed "Nazi propaganda" is and where it's at.
You shouldn't be so dishonest, Tony.
1) Post a half baked argument
2) Change the subject when someone points out how stupid the argument is.
3) ...
4) Repeat
Yeah, this "ENB was Tony all along" theory is really gaining legs.
All at the same time? Seems like convenient timing that all their individual actions took place in the exact same timeframe.
It's possible you may even be right, and while I'm no fan of this type of lawsuit it is actually pretty similar to the stated justifications for anti-trust lawsuits in the first place, albeit brought by a company and not the government itself.
I'd predict that Musk will lose the suit anyway, and probably so quickly it will make his head spin. That, or they all settle to avoid discovery which could very well be what he's counting on.
No, that is an assumption you are making.
Just as Musk is assuming they colluded - hence the lawsuit.
The courts will look at the evidence and decide if there was a violation of law.
If that were the case, they wouldn't need to be told to do so by the World Federation of Advertisers. The fact that they did use the WFA is what makes Musk's allegation of collusion (and thus, the applicability of anti-trust law) plausible.
They’re not colluding
Yes, they are. It's not even secret.
"The author of this rant is ignoring this legal distinction."
This has been ENB's hilarious take on Musk from the beginning. Of all the ostensible Libertarians, she was THE most hostile to Musk wrecking the little blue bubble of twitterati that she loved in the old regime. Every company- from facebook to twitter to Musk has CLAIMED to support freedom of speech, but only Musk gets ENB's ire up when he finds exceptions to his professed support.
Yeah, which is even more amusing given that Musk seems to agree with her about sex which is overwhelmingly her number one thing. It's enough to make you wonder if she's even being honest about her positions on sex trade.
Musk is no hero, but he's hardly the biggest villain in the room either.
That's the problem here. Musk isn't alleging its illegal not to advertise on Twitter. He's alleging these people colluded in a way that is illegal.
By letting her personal animosity towards Musk color everything, she buries the actual libertarian and legal issues here.
There is a potential violation of the law here - a possible conspiracy among these people to boycott Twitter - *and* there's a question as to whether or not this should be illegal.
But by jumping in at the start and saying 'no, its not illegal to not use Twitter' - that shifts the focus of the debate from the real issues to a made-up one. Musk isn't alleging its illegal not to advertise on Twitter.
Wow... I was going to do some Musk trashing until this line.
"The companies were all part of the World Federation of Advertisers"
So no. Musk didn't complain that 7 advertising companies were breaking Anti-trust laws. He's complaining that 7 companies are all working as 1. Sounds like he might have a case.
Collusion should not be illegal unless it is forced by threat of violence. How would seven companies working together be any different from a corporation with seven divisions working together? As long as no one initiates force against any competitor or potential competitor in violation of a REAL criminal law, it should be "all is fair in love, war and commerce." If consumers do not benefit from healthy competition because a monopoly has a great product at a great price and no one has a better product or a better price, tough luck!
1) Whether or not it SHOULD be illegal, it is. This is just as illegal as the 4 gas stations in a town agreeing to keep a price floor (aka Price Fixing). And of course, it is different from divisions of one company acting, because the divisions have competitors (in other companies) but a consortium of companies working together can have no competition. (I am not justifying this law, I am merely pointing out that it IS a law, and it IS different.)
2) As a libertarian I tend to agree that companies should be allowed to perform price fixing, and other behavior that anti-trust was designed to eliminate, because in a truly free market, such behavior will be undercut by competitors who can profit more by undermining their cartel.
Nevertheless, we aren't in a free market- and there is ample evidence that this consortium was being influenced by government actors. The entire advertising ecosystem is rife with government interference. An advertiser who finds themselves connected with (advertising next to) certain content can get in trouble with their bank, or get investigated by congress, the consumer protection bureau, labor bureau and other government agencies.
If 4 gas stations agreed to price fix in a town, AND the mayor refuses to allow competitors to move into the town, free market principles cannot keep them honest or punish them for their collusion.
Leviathan created the concept of collusion and suing over it. Live by the collusion tort die by the collusion tort.
Hint: FTC and dept of commerce should be abolished entirely
I think ENB may be confusing what she thinks the law should be, with what the law actually is.
There is also the fact that even if the advertisers collusion against X is legal, it is also philosophically awful as it is a rejection of a culture of free speech, especially for the individual in favor of corporate collectives.
Would have been appropriate for ENB to cite some legal justification for her position. But it's clear that the underlying message is that Musk is a hypocrite and is actually opposed to free speech and that's the only relevant issue. Let's not forget that when Musk bought Twitter ENB was so terrified of free speech that she moved to Mastodon and published a handy how to switch guide right here at Reason.
No one knows what the law actually is. It is so long, so convoluted, so vague and so complex after having been amended an uncountable number of times that even the bureaucrats themselves cannot say for sure. They like it that way because they can issue interpretations, consent decrees, rulings and penalties whenever they want to, to whomever they want to knowing that it will take months or years of appeals to undo the damage.
At the end of the day, this is irrelevant. Or, rather, its a separate issue, the complexity of law.
The issue at hand is not that Musk thinks its illegal to not use Twitter. The issue is that Musk is alleging illegal collusion.
Maybe he's right, maybe he's wrong. The court's job is to sort that out and none of us here - especially ENB - have the information or legal training to prejudge the case based on media reports by people who have no idea what they are talking about.
You're talking about Elizabeth "Section 230 is the 1A of the internet." Nolan Brown here.
There is no 'may be' or indirect 'philosophically awful' about it. That's her explicit position no matter the consequences/awfulness. If individual free speech (to say nothing about the rest of the 1A or any other rights) has to be thrown under the bus so that Congress can protect corporations, so be it.
It sounds like he has a case, I'm going to head over the the Volokh section and see what the Legal Beagles are saying.
This is actually a good idea - Reason should leave legal commentary to the people who actually do the law stuff.
Law professors do not do jaw stuff and from reading anything from Ilya, they are no better than your average Reason writer (not the inverse) at grasping reality or legality.
There should be NO antitrust Federal laws on the books in the first place. We can count the number of actual monopolies in American history on the fingers of one foot (except for government's monopoly of course) and there has never been any evidence that any so-called monopoly or anti-competitive action in the United States violated the non-aggression principle. Anything a corporate person or individual could do in that direction would almost certainly violate one or a dozen actual criminal laws, obviating the need for competition laws in the first place. If Trump wanted to actually drain the swamp all he would have to do would be to burn the entire Code of Federal Regulations in a large bonfire on The Mall, freeze all government employee hiring, transfer surplus employees to actual essential government functions and lay off anyone still on the rolls in unconstitutional Departments after six months to find a productive job.
If Trump wanted to actually drain the swamp all he would have to do would be to burn the entire Code of Federal Regulations in a large bonfire on The Mall, freeze all government employee hiring, transfer surplus employees to actual essential government functions and lay off anyone still on the rolls after six months to find a productive job.
But the next administration will just undo it all.
- sarcasmic
Thank you for this libertarian take.
Too bad ENB couldn’t make it in the article.
moved
moved
I am moved by y'all's moves!!! They MOOOOVE me!!!!
"The earth MOVED ..."
I can’t wait until this weird fat lesbian is out of my life.
But enough about chemjeff.
I'm trying to get a handle on when homophobia is good and when it's jailable. You seem pretty confident that you know the rules - can you share?
Pretty sure it has something to do with the letter "D".
What do you mean? Is Elon Musk not a weird fat lesbian? Doth mine eyes deceive me?
You do not believe in free speech.
Four years of unregulated free trade, a 90% cut in Federal salaries and a 70% cut in unconstitutional Federal spending would be enough to bring a new "Argentine Spring" to America.
People who threw violent protests over minor hygiene measures and are beside themselves over the price of eggs are gonna love not having Social Security and disability checks, I’m sure.
Go back to wherever you were. You weren’t missed.
I’m only here because I’m morbidly curious how all the fascists who called themselves libertarians are coping with fascism actually happening.
I’m sure none of you give a single shit about all the human beings being shipped to a lawless torture prison in Cuba, but I am on the edge of my seat about how you feel about not having Social Security anymore because a weird fat lesbian decided he was a political scientist one day.
none of you give a single shit about all the human beings being shipped to lawless torture prison in Cuba
I'd love to see the Cuban regime overthrown or collapsed. It's leftist dipshits such as you who defend these places.
Oh, I see, by "lawless torture prison" you referred to Gitmo, not the Castro-ian Cuban dictatorship itself, which you're probably in favor of. I gave tony too much credit for a moment.
There are plenty of countries with regimes whose philosophical underpinnings I disagree with.
I’m just curious whether you support sending people who commit misdemeanors to a concentration camp and losing your social security.
losing your social security
I favor getting rid of SS. As the "only libertarian left in existence", I figured you would as well.
On the contrary, keeping the elderly and disabled out of poverty increases all of our freedom on such a scale I think it could be considered the greatest innovation in favor of liberty ever devised by civilized humans.
Dude... Hello....
Cuba is Communist because of its "Security for Socialists" programs.
You are here literally pitching Cuba governing to the USA and cursing what Cuba is at the same time.
I’m a little of column A and a little of column B kind of guy. Free markets and robust safety nets. Because of the evidence.
You explain to me why a society in which people are randomly doomed to spend all their money taking care of elderly parents, or where elderly people without generous relatives simply starve to death, is better than one where we have freedom.
...because 'Guns' don't take care of people the way you think they do.
'Guns' don't make sh*t.
And 'Guns' is the only 'tool' that makes government; a government.
Otherwise; It would just be any other run of the mill business/organization.
'Gun' THEFT is a zero-sum resources game. (Who gets the last twinkie).
Because it's 'armed-theft' DEMAND with no consideration for supply.
Actually, I am adamantly opposed to deportation of non-violent visitors to and productive foreign residents of the United States. Although I cannot speak for the fascists who DO support such government actions, they are certainly NOT libertarians of any kind. I object to your lumping fascists together with actual libertarians, although I suspect you do it intentionally, not caring about the logical fallacies you commit in pursuit of your narrative.
All you have to do is make libertarian arguments, and then I’ll insult you in entirely different ways for being a libertarian. It’s just so hard to find you among all of the fascist pigs.
I object to your lumping fascists together with actual libertarians, although I suspect you do it intentionally, not caring about the logical fallacies you commit in pursuit of your narrative.
You must not have come across Tony before, but you've pegged him pretty fast.
All they have to do is not say fascist things.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
People who threw violent protests
But enough about BLM.
They still in prison. Trump let his violent rioters out. I’m sure you’ll be positively verklempt about that any day now.
How many injuries and how much property damage happened during those protests again?
About 140 police officers.
Within 36 hours, five people died: one was shot by the Capitol Police, another died of a drug overdose, and three died of natural causes, including a police officer who died of natural causes a day after being assaulted by rioters. Many people were injured, including 174 police officers.
Personally I'd love to see an accounting of what those 'injuries' actually were since I reflexively distrust police reporting, but so far I've seen nothing regarding how severe those officer 'injuries' actually were. One thing we do know is that none of them died in their confrontations with protestors, and at least one protestor was shot.
Also, factually speaking, this is perhaps the biggest joke in national insurrections in American history since they weren't even armed. George fucking Washington had to deal with worse, and that was right at the start of the countries founding.
but so far I've seen nothing regarding how severe those officer 'injuries' actually were.
and certainly no 'investigative journalism' on this topic - I'm guessing because it would ruin the 'insurrection' narrative
A lot, but I actually think the attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of presidential power for the first time in history is also a problem.
Yeah, but Biden's team did that just with paperwork.
Oh look, more fact-free apologetics for a fascist coup by a fat orange vagina-faced psychopath with a toddler’s brain.
The thing I like about libertarians is their high standards.
There's nothing "fact-free" about bringing up Biden's corruption. Your name-calling doesn't change that fact. You are not a libertarian.
attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of presidential power for the first time in history
???
Tony: what objection do you have to violent protests? America was founded on a massive violent protest and Americans have engaged regularly in violent protests ever since then. Or are you objecting to only the violent protests that you disagree with?
Hot take: violence is bad.
Troll. Dismissed pre-emptively out of hand ...
Is it?
Then Ukraine should have surrendered to Russia?
The Capital Police should have let the rioters run free?
He doesn't mean violence by his side.
The thing I like about libertarians is how quick they are to explain why violence is good.
It's called self-defense. You are not a libertarian.
Last I checked, a 'boycott' is something consumers do.
I suppose companies can do it too but it's almost unheard of for that to happen, especially with something like advertising on social media. Companies have dumped toxic pollutants into the environment (no, not CO2) and didn't get this kind of corporate collusion to boycott their products. The closest I've seen in recent memory are divestitures by financial firms of things like oil or Jews.
Are these companies saying their own customers want them to stop doing business with Twitter, and if so how many of their users actually stopped using Twitter? Which customers are demanding this?
These questions are, of course, mostly immaterial to the issue but it seems worth asking them anyway since it appears to be bizarre social signaling versus any considerations of ROI on advertising dollars.
Firms are, or should be, able to advertise where they want by and large but it makes me wonder about those firms fiduciary duty to investors with moves like this. It's also worth asking where those dollars are going now that they aren't going to Twitter, because I very much doubt they simply reduced their advertising budgets by the amount they spent on Twitter ads.
I suppose companies can do it too but it's almost unheard of for that to happen, especially with something like advertising on social media.
The fig leaf of justification is that they don't want to accidently have their ad on a live stream of a murder spree, or on child porn.
Of course, that's the kind of thing each individual company could easily decide on their own.
The "Responsible Media" angle then pushes this a tad-bit further into "we don't want to accidently advertise next to political opinions the WEF disapproves of," and then adds a layer of "and we're all working in concert to maximize the effectiveness of our 'advice.'"
The fig leaf of justification is that they don't want to accidently have their ad on a live stream of a murder spree, or on child porn.
Which, last I checked, still violates the TOS of Twitter so it's no more likely to appear on those pages than than it would be on any other platform.
The "Responsible Media" angle then pushes this a tad-bit further into "we don't want to accidently advertise next to political opinions the WEF disapproves of," and then adds a layer of "and we're all working in concert to maximize the effectiveness of our 'advice.'"
^THIS!!^
So, Elon isn't alleging any breach of contract...He is just alleging that he is legally entitled to these companies' business.
Amazing.
You didn't read the article.
He is alleging that these companies colluded in violation of law.
You can think that this shouldn't be illegal - but it is, thus the lawsuit.
You didn't read the article.
He is alleging that these companies colluded in violation of law.
You can think that this shouldn't be illegal - but it is, thus the lawsuit.
No, his argument appears to be that a group of businesses can't get together and collude to stop doing business with some other business as a group.
No need to lie about the claims being made. He's probably wrong, but if he's right those companies also probably broke the law regardless of how stupid those laws might be.
What next - businesses that refuse to buy equipment that is not Underwriter Labs Approved will be sued by manufacturers making equipment that UL wouldn't even dare plug in to test?
Consider a smallish town where there are three "big" (relative to others in town) businesses all of whose CEOs go to the same church. Suppose these companies currently all use the same local "mom and pop" plumbing contractor who derives 80% of their revenue from these three big companies. Suppose the owner of that plumbing contractor, upon their daughter announcing that they are getting married to a transgender "woman", begins to adorn their trucks, ads, signage, and invoices with a "LGBTQ+ Friendly" rainbow logo. Then one Sunday the preacher rants on about how gays are the devil's spawn and no right minded follower of Jesus would do business with anyone who isn't like minded. As a result, all three CEOs decide (independently based on anticipated peer pressure and/or triggered by an "after service" chat with the pastor) to stop doing business with the plumbing contractor.
It seems to be Musk's (ridiculous) view that these CEO's companies should be required to compensate the plumbing contractor (actually, treble damages!) for profit lost from their decision to fail to route new business to the contractor.
That's a pretty bad strawman. You're baking "independently" right into your assumptions when that is the very point being challenged.
Musk's argument is that they're not independent decisions - they are decisions driven by participation in the World Federation of Advertisers and that the WFA is, for the purposes of anti-trust law, behaving as a cartel.
If the evidence shows that what the advertisers did was truly independent, then Musk will have no case. If, however, the evidence shows that their actions were not independent, then the assumptions in your hypothetical are not met.
There are two basic scenarios. The competitors in an industry can get together and agree to do something in restraint of trade. That can easily violate antitrust laws. But it’s probably legal if the individually decide to do the same thing.
So, in our town in MT, Town Pump always has the cheapest gas. ConocoPhillips is 2¢ higher, and Sinclair is 3¢ higher. It’s not illegal, because the gas stations never got together to set those prices. But if there were ever proven coordination, it very well might have been illegal. Friend had a brick company. He and his competitors got together at a convention, and discussed prices. Whoops!
"No act, treatment or procedure that causes harm to the heart, respiratory system, central nervous system, brain, skeletal system, jointed or muscled appendages or organ function shall be construed as healthcare." That definition would exclude chemotherapy.
Are you saying this because you want to deny people chemotherapy or are you saying this because you want to classify unborn people as a cancer?
Did you read something somewhere that indicated being a willfully obtuse, dishonest, sperg-dunking thunder cunt was an intrinsic part of libertarianism? Because an inherent part of natural language is an assumption of good faith, or at least no faith, on the part of the reader.
There is no language or form of communication anywhere that is immune to malicious interpretation and, indeed, the words are just words, if you interpret the ages old saying, "Do no harm" to mean "Remove a child's functioning genitals" that's on you. Similarly, if people have generally understood "First, do no harm." for centuries and you suddenly interpret it as "Reduce their carbon footprint." or "Reduce their broader socio-economic burden." that's not the fault of the words, intent, or creators of the phrase "First, do no harm."
Chemotherapy is designed to extend life and has other health consequences for the patient.
Abortion is designed to end life of one patient and has other health consequences for the other patient.
Comparing the two is just outright retarded even though the specific wording of this particular law is also retarded.
Diet and exercise explicitly does harm to several of those systems. It's posited as the mechanism by which those systems grow stronger, more efficient, and capable.
You *could* interpret the law as banning diet and exercise but that wouldn't mean the law actually does that or is intended it, it would just mean you're a dishonest douchebag. Especially after 2020 when an even bigger group of douchebags shut down all the gyms, locked people in their homes, and tried to forcibly vaccinate everyone with an experimental drug *without* passing any such law.
Would you be the least bit surprised if the actual definition were:
(i) "Health care" means as defined in Wyoming statute, provided that the action, treatment or procedure is taken to protect the health of a person;
(ii) No act, treatment or procedure that causes harm to the heart, respiratory system, central nervous system, brain, skeletal system, jointed or muscled appendages or organ function shall be construed as health care unless documented and medically necessitated to save the life of a pregnant woman or in cases in which a licensed physician has determined and documented that a person has no chance of meaningful recovery.
Because you cannot hate journalists enough.
If ENB developed cancer and the doctors refused to treat her, I'd call that fair.
No, and given the explicit ease with which you can exempt life saving abortion from elective abortion I assumed she was lying from the outset. I just don't care enough to fact check her anymore, she's cried wolf too many times.
It's still a retardedly obtuse way of phrasing things to get to their preferred end result, but it's exactly what I expect of lawmakers who have little knowledge of anything medical.
Somehow, ENB manages to be even dumber than all of them combined and a liar to boot.
Killing babies isn't enough. Mutilating children isn't enough. She's got to imperil cancer patients in order to dishonestly leverage them to her cause as well.
Fuck, so she lied in everything she wrote today. Why am I not surprised?
This bill would exclude much more than chemotherapy. I know you think the words in the bill can and will be interpreted the way you want in spite of what they say, but there is no ambiguity about the list of exceptions. Section (ii) provides a list, "heart, respiratory system, central nervous system, brain, skeletal system, jointed or muscled appendages or organ function", of body parts and functions which if harmed by an "act, treatment or procedure" exclude that "act, treatment or procedure" from being defined as "Health care" with three stated exclusions, "unless documented and medically necessitated to save the life of a pregnant woman", "or in cases in which a licensed physician has determined and documented that a person has no chance of meaningful recovery", or "The definition and rules of construction of subsection (a) of this section shall not apply to the Wyoming Health Care Decisions Act". Also, the act clearly is written to apply to all people in Wyoming "the definition and rules specified in this section are provided to advance the health, welfare and safety of all people in Wyoming".
As an example, this means that a procedure performed on a pregnant woman that causes harm to an "organ system" could be defined as "health care" while the same procedure performed on a person who does not qualify for either of the three listed exceptions would not be defined as "health care".
Many if not most medical treatments would not qualify as "health care" since there is usually some harm in addition to any benefits from the treatment.
SENATE FILE NO. SF0125
Defining health care and protecting the people's welfare.
Sponsored by: Senator(s) Steinmetz, Dockstader, Hutchings, Olsen and Pearson and Representative(s) Haroldson, Heiner, Neiman and Rodriguez-Williams
A BILL
for
AN ACT relating to statutes and rules of construction; providing a definition of health care generally applicable to law; providing findings; specifying exceptions; and providing for an effective date.
Be It Enacted by the Legislature of the State of Wyoming:
Section 1. W.S. 8‑1‑110 is created to read:
8‑1‑110. Definition of health care; rules of construction; purposes.
(a) For purposes of interpretation and construction under the Wyoming constitution and all statutes of this state:
(i) "Health care" means as defined in Wyoming statute, provided that the action, treatment or procedure is taken to protect the health of a person;
(ii) No act, treatment or procedure that causes harm to the heart, respiratory system, central nervous system, brain, skeletal system, jointed or muscled appendages or organ function shall be construed as health care unless documented and medically necessitated to save the life of a pregnant woman or in cases in which a licensed physician has determined and documented that a person has no chance of meaningful recovery.
(b) The definition and rules of construction of subsection (a) of this section shall not apply to the Wyoming Health Care Decisions Act.
(c) The legislature recognizes the need to protect the health and general welfare of the people of Wyoming. In accordance with this purpose, the definition and rules specified in this section are provided to advance the health, welfare and safety of all people in Wyoming.
Section 2. This act is effective July 1, 2025.
(END)
Headline: "No, Elon: It Isn't Illegal To Boycott X"
then, right in the story they tell you the issue. So which is it, Reason? Are you now going to continue with the click-bait titles of all the other media?
Anyhow, for those that forget what was in the article that matters, it isn't that ad revenue was pulled that is the problem. It is the appearance of collusion between all the companies that might violate US law.
Let the courts decide and stop with the click-bait headlines until we know more. Just report that he is suing without the editorializing before you know enough.
Makes me think of the garbage that main stream pulls and every third article here is turning into the same thing.
You are going to drive people away from your "journalism" if you keep this up. Just report the news.
(Conservatives cheering on Musk should imagine how this would work out in other contexts. Do you want companies with conservative values to be forbidden from pulling ads from platforms that decided to promote porn, Kamala Harris, and DEI?)
This completely misunderstands the mindset of those that are cheering on Musk in this new lawsuit or that cheered on Trump's suit against CBS over the Harris 60 Minutes interview. Trying to appeal to them on the basis of whether they would be bothered if this tactic was aimed at them just won't work. That is because they are assuming that they will continue to have the power to make sure that these tactics will not be aimed at them. They deserve to have a turn abusing government power and punishing their political enemies, and they will also step things up further to do a better job of lawfare. After all, that is the Chicago Way.
How many conservative organizations are creating cartels in order to not work with other companies?
ENB is ever and always on the side of Big Government when it comes to speech. First she was all about government agents suppressing conservative speech through "private companies" and now she's all for those same agencies pressuring dissenting voices from the Marxist narrative through their consortium of speech control.
Basically, Musk thinks it should be illegal for these companies to have simultaneously pulled advertising dollars from his company.
No, he thinks it's tortious - you gibbering gimp whore. There is no "should" anywhere in there.
I'm not even reading the fact pattern. I'm going straight to the COA's. There's TWO. That's it. And really, it's just claiming two angles at the same thing: violation of Section 1 of the Sherman Act.
What's the Sherman Act? You don't know! Because "rEpOrTeR ENB" doesn't bother to even inform you. She just straight cribs from literal State Media ("reports NPR") because she's a LiBeRtArIaN, and stopped at the SECOND page of the 56pg Complaint because she found a line she could use for narrative purposes. Which was this one:
Musk tries to dress up his complaint in the language of choice and freedom, arguing that social media entities must be allowed to set their own moderation policies and that "collective action among competing advertisers to dictate brand safety standards" is bad for consumers.
He literally did not do that even a little bit.
Count 1: Per se illegal. Not "should be" - is.
Count 2: Eh.... basically (non-criminal) conspiracy to do Count 1, asserting the Rule of Reason. So, in the simplest terms I can put it, he's alleging that GARM got together and said, "Screw X, screw Musk, let's all work together against him specifically" - and that doing so was anti-competitive.
The alternative that Musk is demanding would be worse than a world of woke corporations and overly cautious advertisers. In this world, private market actors would be compelled to continue doing business with entities they wish not to and to broadcast their speech in venues they do not wish to.
That's not even a little bit true. He's not asking for ANYTHING compulsory. It's a Dec Action and a demand that they stop conspiring. It doesn't mean they can't refuse to do business with him - it means he's asking that they stop trading backroom information with each other for the explicit purpose of trying to screw him out of the market.
Which is kinda the whole point of antitrust law.
FFS, you're as sloppy and narrative driven as Emma and Jake, ENB. Do you have any self-respect or integrity at all?
Whether or not you agree with that, it's not unreasonable for such companies to worry about reputational harm that could harm their bottom line.
But it is unreasonable for them all to team up for the sole purpose of trying to bully him out of the market, particularly when they'll clearly take a financial hit for having done so.
Acting in tandem is how boycotts work. And boycotts—by individuals or corporations—are a form of protected speech.
So simplistic. I wonder, how many of these defendants asked their shareholders whether or not they should be making this protected speech. Did you look into that even a little bit, ENB? No?
Because you're not a real journalist? Because you're a hack narrative NPC monkey grinding the State's organ?
And yea, that's double-entendre/pun intended especially, in your case.
Elon Musk should have been bullied out of the market when he was a bald geek in middle school. What a pity we got rid of bullying.
Now tell everyone how they should have burned a cross on Ibram Kendi's lawn to run him out of town.
As everyone sane in this thread has pointed out, there's a long, long distance between the idea that something "shouldn't be illegal" in libertarian principle and "isn't illegal" when it comes to US antitrust law.
As a few people in this thread have pointed out, there's also a substantial distance between the libertarian principles of free speech and private association. and the reality that the (alleged) boycott-coordinating entity in this case is deeply entangled with the governments of countries that do not respect those principles even as much as the US does.
A body that was originally formed by the alliance of the semi-public national advertiser associations representing Belgium, Denmark, France, (West) Germany, India, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK in 1953, actions by the World Federation of Advertisers are strongly influenced by the opinions of, in particular, European governments, in a somewhat subtler manifestation of the Brussels Effect. (Why, the WFA is even headquartered in Brussels.)
The writer should’ve delved deeper into the Global Alliance for Responsible Media, a significant player in censorship. I'd think a libertarian-leaning news rag would be laser-focused on this, as GARM controls advertising blacklists to influence the content on platforms like Xitter.
GARM shares these “not safe for advertising” lists with online ad agencies, which prevent conservative-leaning websites from accessing the larger, more profitable advertising market.
Many sites have closed their comment sections due to pressure from agencies like GARM. Deleting comments or offensive articles can result in being added to a list. Even The Federalist closed its commenting after Google threatened to remove its ads if it didn’t moderate its comments (despite already doing so). They didn't have the manpower to manage comments and ensure compliance with Google guidelines.
Google uses companies like GARM for these not-safe-for-advertising lists to enforce behavior that Google approves of. Why Reason isn't laser-focused on this every day instead of obsessing about Trump's successful tariff threats escapes me.
^absolutely this^
They support it.