Study Finds Almost No Good Evidence on Gender Dysphoria Drugs for Young People
Two new meta-analyses make a case for individualistic approaches to puberty blockers and hormone treatments, driven by patients, parents, and doctors rather than the state.

Based on current evidence, it's impossible to say whether puberty blockers and hormone therapy are helpful or harmful for young people with gender-related distress, according to two new papers published in the Archives of Disease in Childhood journal.
In these two meta-analyses, Canadian researchers looked at prior studies on puberty blockers and "gender-affirming hormone therapy" (GAHT) in minors and young adults up to age 26.
Puberty blockers are hormonal medications meant to suppress sex hormones in adolescents, with the aim of delaying puberty and its associated physical changes. Hormone therapy for gender dysphoria uses masculinizing or feminizing hormones to induce secondary sex characteristics that align with one's gender identity.
Both interventions have become popular for treating young people who express discomfort with the sex or gender to which they were born—aka gender dysphoria. Proponents say such treatments are vital for the psychological health and social acceptance of transgender youth. Detractors worry about potential long-term effects and suggest that doctors are too quick to prescribe these medications, handing them out to people for whom psychological interventions (or simply the passage of time) may be a more appropriate remedy.
In the first of the two new analyses, a team of researchers led by McMaster University's Anna Miroshnychenko looked at evidence from 10 studies on the effects of puberty blockers. Three of these studies compared patients given puberty blockers to those who were not, while the others assessed patients before and after being treated with puberty blockers. In both sets of studies, there was "very low certainty evidence" on tested outcomes, including their effect on gender dysphoria, depression, and bone mineral density.
"Most studies provided very low certainty evidence about the outcomes of interest, thus, we cannot exclude the possibility of benefit or harm," write the study authors.
"All other published systematic reviews had similar conclusions to our review: the current best available evidence about the effects of puberty blockers in the population of interest is very low certainty, and high-quality studies evaluating short and long-term outcomes of puberty blockers are needed," they add.
The second analysis—also led by Miroshnychenko—looked at evidence related to hormone therapy, using data from 24 studies. Evidence about the effects of hormone therapy was mostly low certainty or very low certainty, they found. Many of the study designs were "limited in assessing intervention effects" and the studies were at risk of "bias and imprecision" resulting "from an insufficient sample size."
"The best available evidence reporting on the effects of [hormone therapy] in individuals experiencing [gender dysphoria] ranged from moderate to high certainty for cardiovascular events, and low to very low certainty for the outcomes of [gender dysphoria], global function, depression, sexual dysfunction, [bone mineral density], and death by suicide," they write.
On one level, these analyses don't tell us much about the best course of action when it comes to young people with gender dysphoria and hormone treatments. They leave open the possibility that puberty blockers and hormone therapy may be beneficial, but also the possibility that they may be harmful or have little effect at all.
On another level, however, that uncertainty is a sort of guide. It suggests, first, a cautious approach to prescribing and advocating for these therapies. If they were as unambiguously helpful as some supporters say, we should see much more robust evidence to this effect and the fact that we don't would seem to preclude them from being some sort of panacea.
It suggests, also, a highly individualistic approach—neither the hyper-liberal prescribing patterns that some supporters advocate, nor the extremely restrictive schemes that detractors want. Ultimately, these analyses seem to caution against more universal solutions, for now.
"Since the current best evidence…is predominantly very low certainty," these decisions come down to "the individualistic nature of values and preferences," suggest the authors. The best clinicians can do is "clearly communicate this evidence to patients and caregivers," and consider the uncertainty of the evidence along with "patient's values and preferences" when making treatment decisions. Meanwhile, "guideline developers and policy makers should be transparent about which and whose values they are prioritizing when making recommendations and policy decisions," they write in the puberty blocker paper.
"Beyond evidence certainty, decision-making should consider other factors, including the magnitude and consequences of potential benefits and harms, patients' and caregivers' values and preferences, resource use, feasibility, acceptability, and equity," they write in the hormone therapy analysis paper, again urging policymakers to "transparently state which and whose values they prioritize when developing treatment recommendations and policies."
"There is considerable uncertainty…and we cannot exclude the possibility of benefit or harm," Miroshnychenko and her team conclude. "Methodologically rigorous prospective studies are needed to produce higher certainty evidence."
This implies that better evidence is capable of being obtained with the right studies, and surely some sorts of evidence can be. But perhaps the difficulty in determining whether puberty blockers and hormone interventions are harmful or helpful comes down to the fact that there is no one-size-fits-all or even one-size-fits-most answer when it comes to certain outcomes, like those in the mental health realm.
Puberty blockers and hormone therapies may be helpful in many cases and neutral or harmful in many others. The fact that there's no consensus is all the more reason to leave this decision to patients, parents, and doctors rather than the state.
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The Science is true when it confirms my bias
Talk about a confession coming from you.
Two new meta-analyses make a case for individualistic approaches to puberty blockers and hormone treatments, driven by patients, parents, and doctors rather than the state.
So, castrating your children should be a decision between your 4 yr old, parents and doctors?
The fuck outta here.
California is half-way there.
No, California's approach is to remove the Parent from the decision. Now it's the 12 yr old, their teacher, and a doctor.
Once again: As a child, Rosemary Kennedy reportedly exhibited developmental delays and in her early adult years, she became increasingly irritable and difficult. In response to these issues, her father arranged for a lobotomy to be performed on her in 1941, when she was 23 years of age. The procedure left her permanently incapacitated and rendered her unable to speak intelligibly.
That said, it's undeniable that the procedure definitively calmed her the fuck down.
And the glory of Camelot endured.
There is little doubt in my mind that future generations will look at this issue and correctly compare it to the 'mental health' treatments of the early 1900's.
The two things are really more similar than they are dissimilar, right down to the pretense that the 'treatments' are settled science.
Again, when the Soviets/Russians see what you're doing, whether it's lobotomies or transgender surgery, and say "Damn. That's fucked up." you really ought to take a longer glance in the mirror.
Certainly not everything they do is right but, you know, when people informally notorious for machete fights on the freeway react to you in disbelief, maybe some introspection is in order.
Not at all. You obviously want to be involved. Might as well add politicians too. And preachers. And TV commenters and youtube influencers. Maybe a few lawyers. Is that enough?
Society shouldn't be involved in murders, theft, assault?
I agree. It should be victim prosecution entirely. No victim, no crime. You socialists can fuck right off. When government teachers brainwash 2-year olds into demanding genital mutilation surgery, the parents can sue her ass into jail for the rest of her life as a threat to public safety.
JFree supports the right for parents to do foot binding and genital mutilation also, I assume.
The crowd here supports the right (or if not the right then the practice) of a father to rape his under-age daughter and then force the kid to carry to term.
Of course - the crowd here supported the right of the father to sell that kid into slavery after birth too.
Hard to ignore that you didn't actually respond to the point, but rather deflected from it. Congratulations on providing a demonstration on what an actual whataboutism is though.
Nobody here supports a right or practice of rape. Make more shit up JFear.
Uhhh ... jeffy does. If the rapist shows remorse.
...and he doesn't come inside her.
Only if the child thinks they were supposed to have small feet.
I support the right of parents to sell their kid to the traveling circus if they have Bozo the Clown feet and the kid accepts that as normal
JFree advocates child slavery. No surprise.
Im also fine with reinstating street justice for these scenarios.
There is way too much fucking around, and not nearly enough finding out nowadays.
A decent judicial system would handle street justice very well. Go ahead and take your pre-emptive swing at justice, and hope when the trial comes around, it finds your punishment is less than the punishment your victim would have gotten.
My favorite example is tar and feathers for government bureaucrats, using the old-fashioned liquid-at-room-temperature pine tar, not roofing tar or asphalt. Some damn bureaucrat blocks your project for no reason, yank him out of his cubbyhole and apply tar and feathers, then show how he cost you thousands with his delays. I am reminded particularly of the federal ranger who blockaded a state highway so tourists wouldn't be able to see Mt Rushmore which had been closed by the government shutdown.
It's a (not very) interesting mind that can/will/does recognize 'social justice is not justice' and then turns around and says "Oh, yeah, street justice? Gimme summuhthat!"
You're going to wind up with a bunch of burned out store fronts in your town and no businesses, potentially a bunch of dead bodies and a few crashed cars in the street, and it's obvious.
Interesting enough that you respond, but not interesting enough to have actually read, and somehow that's my fault.
Gotcha.
Are you going to pull the bureaucrat out his cubbyhole and tar and feather him all by yourself or are you going to get some friends to help you? When other people and their friends start tarring and feathering you and/or your peers that they find annoying, are you going to kick back and say "Welp, that's justice!" when the court finds in their favor?
Because, yeah, I don't need to read that story again.
The easy legal fix is to make it clear that any Parent who allows such permanent changes to the child is liable for any regret the child has after they reach adulthood. That means paying for restorative surgery, or paying damages for pain and suffering, as well as punitive damages as assigned by a jury. And of course, the parent/child is free to bring any healthcare professional that advised or helped them into the suit.
The biggest reason they're so fixated on pushing early transition is because the sooner you start cooking these kids' brains with puberty blockers and castration, the less likely they are to comprehend the full measure of what's happening to them. If Jazz Jennings suddenly had the light turn on and realize he'll never be a woman no matter how hard he tries, it would likely result in a full-on psychotic break because he's been marinated in this shit by his family since he was a toddler.
They were never "_______ trapped in a _______'s body," but they are children trapped in an adult's as soon as they hit 18. With all the osteoporosis and increased organ damage and cancer risk that goes with it.
Enough people have expressed regret that any parent or doctor ought to be very concerned that they are going to be sued. They just cannot know with certainty that the kid won't change their mind later. A parent might be deluded enough to take the risk. But the doctor performing the procedure (or their insurer) certainly will have SOME angry past customers.
Enough people have expressed regret that any parent or doctor ought to be very concerned that they are going to be sued.
You are aware of the abortion debate, right?
I mean I've literally been a part of the discussion about how "20 weeks is too oppressive and medicinal abortion should be legal" pointing out that after 10 weeks, medicinal abortion incurs risks to the point where it's no longer GRAS only, a year or two later, to have the *same person* who said "20 weeks is too oppressive and medicinal abortion should be legal" cite a case where a woman who was more than 10 weeks pregnant took birth control and wound up bleeding out. Multiple discussions where the only plausible explanation to "believe all women" is that a doctor knowingly endangered a patient's life *in defiance of the law* in order to achieve the sensationalist ends.
Some angry past customers? What's the statute of limitations on transitioning? Even if it's 30 yrs., the guardians signed the paper, services were rendered, transition was achieved.
You were around for the Doctor that declared himself to be The Science too, right?
We're talking about parents willing to cut off their kids gonads as a social trend here. You think there's nobody on the other side willing to go to med school and risk it all to proclaim their virtue?
If they want to do it to proclaim their virtue then they can very quickly be bankrupt. Because no malpractice insurance company will cover that shit as soon as the law makes very clear that the parents and doctors (and their insurer) is liable for those costs. Remember, my original post was that to fix this you just need to make very clear in the law that the Doctors and Parents are liable for any costs later in life if the child regrets the change.
“ The easy legal fix is to make it clear that any Parent who allows such permanent changes to the child”
Puberty blockers are the exact opposite of permanent. When you stop taking them, they stop working and puberty resumes normally.
Please link to the studies showing this.
Even if we assume what you say is correct*:
1) Puberty Blockers are but 1/3 of the procedures in question here. Hormone therapy and surgical intervention are happening and they leave permanent effects, with significant cost to reverse (if they can be reversed at all).
2) If doctors are comfortable with that fact, they can take that bet. But you and I know that only die-hard ideologues will take it, and their insurers sure as shit will not.
[*]: I am willing to put significant money in escrow on the bet that in 20 years, there will be many court cases winning damages because Puberty Blockers in fact DO have long term effects.
Not even Rick James included 'teachers' as part of the 'decision making'. Are you confused that they currently ARE the decision-makers - or do you want them to be excluded via a panel of judges who determine who should be included as decision makers?
Well, except in California of course.
"When government teachers brainwash 2-year olds into demanding genital mutilation surgery," <-- No such thing exists.
Why do you love lying?
You know why you lost in 2024? Because you started fucking with kids. Leave kids the fuck alone.
And when I say "leave them alone" I don't mean "leave kids alone" in the Nick Gillespie interview way "intervene and make sure if someone in their chain of custody wants a part cut off, that part must be cut off", I mean "leave them alone" in the "leave them the fuck alone" way.
I didn't lose. I didn't vote. And honestly I preferred Trump to Harris. For reasons that some of you might guess but most cannot comprehend. Even though - god damn what a coinkydink - it also has to do with kids. Except apparently most of you commenters support, enable and are complicit in the mass slaughter of kids - but find any discussion of gender anywhere in the near or far vicinity of kids to be WAY beyond any red lines.
Though of course, as I said, I didn't vote so I can't claim a win. Neither can you since even if you did vote - for Trump - you can't claim a win since your vote mattered as much as my non-vote.
You Social Conservatives are the only ones "fucking with kids".
You are trying to force kids who are actually boys to grow up with breasts and periods. You are trying to force kids who are actually girls to grow up with beards and deep voices.
Why do you want to abuse them so?
“ So, castrating your children should be a decision between your 4 yr old, parents and doctors?”
This is about puberty blockers and hormone therapy. Surgery literally has nothing to do with this analysis at all.
Castration is part of the transition process. Don't be so disingenuous.
Per the person's choice. Which is regretted less than 1% of the time. Don't pretend otherwise.
"First, do no harm."
And Social Conservatives are determined to do harm and call it virtue.
Puberty is torment even to normal boys and normal girls.
why not encourage ALL kids to delay puberty?
Nah, but that's why many cultures sent adolescents away on vision quests, missions, raiding parties, etc. Those that grew up and survived could later come back and rejoin society.
I didn't mind it. Mostly just got a new toy to play with. For girls I'm sure it's a lot worse.
For girls I'm sure it's a lot worse.
Imagine part of growing up being regular, uncontrolled bleeding from your privates. I can't begin to imagine. But I'm also one of those knuckle-dragging Ron DeSantis-like culture warriors who doesn't believe men can have periods.
Imagine part of growing up being regular, uncontrolled bleeding from your privates.
The only difference is that with your random, uncontrolled boner the blood stays inside.
That's a pretty significant differance.
The only difference between you opening your mouth and Ajsloss opening his mouth is that, when you do it your brain stays inside.
Do you stuff your little tiny boots with socks like Ron too?
When did you have your dick cut off, troon?
I can't begin to imagine.
In my 20s, I scraped open my knee. I realized that it had been years since I felt that pain and bled like that. It was almost nostalgic, life affirming. I was doing something enjoyable and dangerous that would teach me something I would remember. It dawned on me that, if it happened to me every month, for, life-experience-wise, no particular reason at all, it would probably feel a lot more like a curse, my own mortality slipping away, almost like a clock ticking by with nothing to show for it. Of course, I don't *know* that's how I would feel, but I could imagine or conceptualize it.
Other than the fact that puberty is important for proper brain development, yeah, that's the ticket. Something that is well known scientifically but never included in these studies.
Especially the forebrain, which is responsible for things like impulse control.
As I note below, it is a parent's job to foster a child to adulthood. Puberty blockers are an affirmative action on the Parent's part to avoid their primary responsibility. It is as unethical to drop a child into the age of majority as it is for a construction company to turn over a "complete" building that has incomplete plumbing.
If the puberty delaying drugs were perfectly safe, that would actually be a good idea.
The problem is that they're NOT perfectly safe. Not only do they have side effects, it turns out that if you delay puberty too long, it never properly happens, and the result is somebody who's kind of halfway there, they'll never be normal.
You leave some kid with gender dysphoria alone, they almost always get over it by the time puberty is over. But if you dose them with these drugs, they'll never be normal.
And yet, you will be unable to substantiate any "side effect" puberty blockers supposedly have.
why not encourage ALL kids to delay puberty?
You're getting Jeffy and Buttplug excited.
Puberty blockers and hormone therapies may be helpful in many cases
There is no condition in which blocking the body's natural process of puberty-- a necessary transition that the human body must go through to fully develop-- is a good idea or 'helpful'. If suddenly 40% of kids in wealthy California neighborhoods are suddenly "uncomfortable" with the "body they were born in" but 0% of the people in Latvia, Senegal or Yakutia have this condition, then something the fuck else is going on... it's not a goddamned condition that needs to be treated with drugs.
A human being going through puberty means their body is functioning normally. Whenever medical science decides it's a good idea to break what the body is doing correctly-- it needs to think long and hard. Yes, there are conditions which we accept such situations: Birth control is one example. Birth control pills break the woman's natural birth cycle which... breaks that which is working normally. But even that comes with consequences.
The UK has reportedly seen a 50x increase in gender dysphoria in ten years.
That is not a medical issue. That is a social contagion passed along, normally, by hyper protective mothers who want social media clout.
While I am sure there are many of these mothers pushing it along, it is absolutely starting in the schools.
We lived in a part of the city that fed into one middle school, but moved when our kids were in elementary to go to a different one. We still have many family friends going to the other middle school, that we meet with regularly. 4 of 8 of those kids have identified trans while they were in 7th/8th grade. It isn't (just) their peers. It's activists in the schools.
We had an activist teacher in our kids' elementary. Their fourth grade teacher's classroom looked like it had been designed by one of these gender-bending lesson plans. Self portraits on the wall asking kids to imagine they were a different gender or animal. Posters trying to turn every historical event into power struggles.
Luckily in 4th grade, kids still listen to their parents. So when my daughter came home asking if her interest in camping and sports made her a boy, her mom (who grew up as a tomboy) set her straight. But when this stuff takes place in the middle schools, those kids are LOOKING for someone other than their parents to help them, and these teachers are taking advantage of it.
Seeing the teachers they hire, states need to remove any semblance of autonomy the school districts have over hiring. They clearly are incapable of hiring competent folks.
If you get an activist teacher supported by the school level administration, I imagine that’s toxic as fuck. Because blue state and federal level education bureaucrats are probably the most corrupted. So there’s no boss to complain to and little to no recourse but to get the heck out.
My wife’s a middle school teacher in Frederick County, Maryland. It’s a more “conservative” area (for Maryland), and apart from some of the DEI meetings she has to attend, it’s not too bad, yet. Because the administration within the school itself won’t let it take root too fast.
My wife routinely uses the time mandated for SEL lessons as a general study time and won’t teach them. She got involved in being part of picking text books herself. And says the administrators involved in the language department are highly resistant to trying to wokify the gender designations in Spanish, etc. A current foot in the door move by activist teachers.
But there are “diversity officers” who are supposed to come around and check things. So far a rare occurrence at her school. But we got ahold of one of their work sheets in 2023. And it used the scenario of a student telling another student to get out of the bathroom because they’re the wrong gender as an example of discriminatory behavior. So you can see where they want to go with this. And it could always be ratcheted up in time.
I've said this in other sections, but the greatest power of the Federal Government since Obama took control was creating these culture-war beachheads. Through Title IX "Opinions", ESG rulings, and Letters of Intent from the DOJ, they have put school districts and companies on notice that they will be sued if they do not empower the marxists within their ranks.
Your wife is doing yeoman's work and finally, there is a GOP president in control that understands this tactic and is working to reverse it (his many, many, many other faults aside).
The Cass Review, the Finland study, and all the stuff that came out in the WPATH files not only showed that blocking puberty development in otherwise healthy people has massive and broad physiological degradations, up to and including increased risk of getting cancer. These quacks, charlatans, and gurus in the medical industry are malicious fucks who propagandize and lie, with every breath that they can muster, that puberty is something that can just be turned on and off with no physical harms whatsoever. And they do it not just because they're a bunch of marxist cult members, they do it because they get lifetime patients spending tens or even hundreds of thousands each to maintain the LARP.
Even the University of Washington study that the queer cult continually cites buries, deep in the back, the fact that "gender affirming care" does not, in fact, lower suicidal ideation over time.
The only "gender affirming care" that's required is to help these people realize that they aren't "born in the wrong body" and their issue is mental, not physical.
"they do it because they get lifetime patients spending tens or even hundreds of thousands each to maintain the LARP."
There are 2 camps.
Definitely the most obvious explanation is the profit motive. These drugs are expensive, and getting someone on this pathway is a lifelong patient for therapists, psychiatrists, big pharma, and potentially surgeons.
But the other even scarier camp are the true believers that really think everyone is a blank slate and they can play Dr. Frankenstein with people, and they are truly leading people to utopia (despite very obvious evidence they arent)
Its really the same with all cults honestly. There are the grifters that dont give a fuck and are happy to take the unfortunate folks money, and the true believers.
"true believers that really think everyone is a blank slate and they can play Dr. Frankenstein with people"
This is the true marxism- and it must be resisted at all costs. As much as I dislike Trump, it seems like he gets it, and is currently going through the government and excising all the little administrative and regulatory beachheads that these marxists have used to insinuate themselves into institutions.
"true believers that really think everyone is a blank slate and they can play Dr. Frankenstein with people"
You child abusing Social Conservatives and other progressives are the only one who think everyone is a "blank slate". That's why you're so terrified of kids learning the truth of biology, how variable it is. How variable even their own may be. You wan them stupid, ignorant, and fearful like you are.
You are crazy. The truth is that biologically, there are two sexes in humans. Any aberration from that is just that: an aberration. We can tell this because 1) it is statistically unlikely, and 2) it often comes with side effects for the person suffering it (extra/missing chromosomes) because the human body was not evolved to deal with this.
The notion that you need to express "variable biology" by CHANGING it with chemicals and surgery just goes to show how it is a fiction of perverted minds, not some reflection of real biology.
But good luck: I pray that you tell everyone who will listen about variable biology, so that the rest of polite society can properly decide that you are to be kept far, far away from children.
While I generally agree, you are overstating the case when you say "no condition". Not all puberty transitions are "natural" or "healthy".
Puberty blockers do have a valid medical role in those suffering from premature puberty - a problem that remains poorly understood yet is increasingly common. Seven-year-olds should not be going through puberty yet. Puberty-blockers are an appropriate treatment in those cases.
Edge cases do not invalidate my argument. If an anomalous puberty sets in (the condition you're describing is what's known as 'promiscuous puberty') and it causes other medical issues, putting a "pause" on puberty until the nominal age of puberty kicks in is light years away from "we're stopping puberty until you're an adult and it won't have any deleterious affect on your adult life-- and we're doing it because your mom said you were born in the wrong body".
Edge cases absolutely obliterate your argument because your argument is that everyone and their grandmother should be involved in making these decisions. Your argument is that this is all legitimately political. A single exception kills your argument
"Edge" cases destroy your argument, because all of the "edge" cases are human beings fully deserving of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. In actual science, there is no such thing as an exception proving a rule -- all exceptions only prove how and how often and under what circumstances, a "rule" is wrong.
"and we're doing it because your mom said you were born in the wrong body" <-- Which is a lie all it's own anyway.
While I generally agree, you are overstating the case when you say "no condition". Not all puberty transitions are "natural" or "healthy".
Those are cases so far on the margins as to be completely insignificant. But the queer cult continually employs it as a Fallacy of the Lonely Fact.
Moreover, in the same vein, it voids 'do no harm' and is a dishonest conflation.
Puberty blockers are appropriate for precocious puberty but the specific intent is to delay puberty, not suppress it entirely forever and replace it with the sexual maturation of an entirely different biology. There are lots and lots of cases of precocious puberty where people are just "early bloomers" and, literally, nothing else happens.
It's like declaring that, because some people have bone and joint disorders that delay them from walking and they wind up using a wheelchair, it's OK to cripple other people so they can start learning to use a wheelchair sooner.
There are lots and lots of cases of precocious puberty where people are just "early bloomers" and, literally, nothing else happens.
Then why have puberty blockers? That would only potentially create troubling situations that's completely unnecessary.
Did you not read what was written, retard? There are cases of precocious puberty where the epiphyseal plates begin to close off prematurely or inconsistently or where other organs, primarily the reproductive organs, haven't grown to sufficient size to support the reproductive function they're initiating. In this case, it often manifests as physical pain and/or physiological damage. Delaying puberty, but not permanently stopping it, in these cases allows for more normal development and, for the limited duration the risk is marginal. But, going over the basics for the proudly retarded, not every kid is the same when the begin puberty and is distinct from it's use as a transgender drug therapy where puberty has to effectively be arrested permanently.
Seriously, this is puberty blockers 101, just slightly beyond a HS Sex Ed class and even if it weren't your take is retardedly along the lines of "Why doesn't everyone who's overweight need GLP-1?" or "Why is it acceptable to be out in the sun for 20-30 min. without protection every day but not OK to be out in the sun for 2-3 hours once a week?"
Puberty blockers were never meant to be used for years on end.
A) That is a falsehood. For the use case of precocious puberty in youth, they are intended and approved for use for as long as is needed. That could be 10 or more years.
B) For the use case of gender dysphoria in youth, they are intended to be used for up to a few years. Generally 1, and 2~3 at most.
C) For the use case of refractory sex related cancers in adults, they are intended to be used until the side effects are intolerable compared to the cancer, or, until death.
D) For the use case of endometriosis in adults, they are intended to be used until the side effects are intolerable or until the endo is other wise cured.
Only in adults taking them post puberty do puberty blockers have side effects they are known to cause.
" . . . and "gender-affirming hormone therapy" . . . "
More like gender denying hormone abuse.
'Based on current evidence, it's impossible to say whether puberty blockers and hormone therapy are helpful or harmful for young people with gender-related distress'
Really? How about all other forms of reality blockers for any type of dysphoria? Are we still indulging all personal fantasies, from a person believing they are Napoleon to a person believing they are a tree? And I assume The Science is still ambiguous about Furries, and their junior puppies and kitties who demand litter boxes at school.
I mean the other name for these drugs is chemical castration drugs. No downsides right ENB?
Im not on the same page with all of Matt Walsh's political views, but I think his work on what is a woman, and his fight against the gender cult is praiseworthy and he has done some great public service.
He specifically did a lot of work in shifting the conversation in calling them "puberty blockers" to what they were historically used for: chemical castration.
Things need to be put bluntly, and I appreciate how he has handled this issue as a whole.
Not if you hate humanity and want them extinct.
But perhaps the difficulty in determining whether puberty blockers and hormone interventions are harmful or helpful comes down to the fact that there is no one-size-fits-all or even one-size-fits-most answer when it comes to certain outcomes, like those in the mental health realm.
Does it ever occur to you that there might be a no-size-fits-any condition?
You have a headache, we can:
1. Do nothing, maybe it will pass
2. Give you some Ibuprofin or asprin
3. Cut your head off with a bandsaw
Moar studies and testing needed to know if #3 is the best solution!
Good post, good analogy! Trying the less drastic "fixes" first, seems wise to me!
Jeff favors option 3 in all cases.
There's a reason you are not a doctor. And that politically decided medical options do not make for good medicine.
being a child and then teen is difficult enough without psychopaths in the medical world fucking the poor kids over with drugs
And Teachers and activists insisting that these kids have an existential mind-body mismatch that cannot be fixed without submitting yourself to the psychology-health uber-entity.
^^ hey teachers leave those kids alone.
If my electoral choices are moonbats transitioning kids, or moonbats disappearing into the back of a black van, I'm voting for the black van. Suck on it.
Shit we’ve known for years that Trannys are 4x more likely to commit suicide AFTER surgery than before - ‘not the body I was born in’ is a Lefty Lie and always has been.
They get the surgery, realize that it’s not the game changer they screamed about it being, then off themselves.
Common sense says to stop the madness.
Citation please?
Also note that military service is highly correlated with suicide afterwards! (And during service, ass well.)
War? Even preparation for war? Common sense says to stop the madness! (Yes I know, the OTHER side should lay down arms first!)
Citation please?
Here you go.
Now technically, the above doesn't debunk the post-surgery vs pre-surgery question, it debunks the whole suicide myth, writ large.
4 min talk, also discusses the permanent effects of puberty blockers.
Thanks for the link, I have saved it!
Random comments...
How much does gender-affirming surgery cost? And can I buy health insurance that EXCLUDES it, to save me money?
https://reason.com/2024/11/18/how-scientific-americans-departing-editor-helped-degrade-science/?comments=true#comments is newest on the tranny surgery changes etc issues, has many good links in it. . .
Sex changes and being driven to suicides are too complicated to pull out which is cause and which is effect. Suicides may also be driven by being socially ostracized as opposed to the sex change itself. But IMHO, the current "science" status of forbidding the collection and reporting the data STINKS to the Highest Heavens!
An earlier comment, I forget who made it… “I suspect the causes are related to environmental contamination – endocrine disruptors – …” … Is definitely or almost definitely spot on! These chemicals are already released. Their chemical sources are so useful that there may not be much room left there for maneuvering. Every rose has its thorn. PART of the fix is letting people contemplating surgical sex changes know that chemical (hormones etc) tweaks are a less-traumatic, less-radical route to take, which may “fix” their “gender-fender-bender dysphoria”. Well, taking a knife to your pubes is more than a fender-bender, butt I imagine you get the idea…
Sad to say, wildlife has no “access” to any of these “fixes” to “endocrine disruptors”. One example: https://academic.oup.com/icb/article/40/3/438/379945 Alligators and Endocrine Disrupting Contaminants: A Current Perspective . . . I worry about being bitten by gators… Now I will ALSO need to worry about them dragging me off and forcing me to watch them conduct an “Alligator Drag Queen Story Hour”! (Do NOT pass this idea on! I am also in fear of the next pet-snatching-type groundless and boundless panic!)
This is an old, tired, sad fight by now! “Science” that suppresses gathering and reporting data!
http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/03/brickbat-dont-ask-dont-tell
I am utterly SHOCKED to learn that NOT offending the “tranny brigade” of PC people is WAY more important than the actual happiness of trannies and potential trannies!!! Or even STUDYING such matters!
Speaking of such things, there are biochemical, often off-label, solutions to your urges towards becoming a tranny, which MIGHT actually lead to better results! To MORE happiness, for many potential trannies! To becoming happy with your body, as it already is! Imagine that!
See http://www.drugs.com/condition/gender-dysphoria.html for “Off Label” uses of drugs for suppressing “gender dysphoria”… 6 drugs listed in web link above, to include (pretty obviously) testosterone…
Also use below as search-string…
“Transgender woman, who claims pills for male hair-loss sparked gender change, opens up about 'life and death struggle'” = = https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2203366/Transgender-woman-claims-pills-male-hair-loss-sparked-gender-change-opens-life-death-struggle.html
Concerns male-hair-loss “…drug Propecia, called finasteride, to halt the onset of hereditary baldness”, which feminized his / her body, and brought around the desire for a sex change, according to him-now-her.
So then Propecia AKA (generic) finasteride sounds like a darned-good choice for an off-label drug use, if you are female, contemplating sex-change to male, and worrying that your marriage might not survive such a sex change… Which is a strong possibility! Try this first, to see if maybe you’d like to stay female, before you make drastic changes…
Also...
Also see “The successful treatment of a gender dysphoric patient with Pimozide” at http://www.researchgate.net/publication/14365362_The_successful_treatment_of_a_genderdysphoric_patient_with_Pimozide
(I hope that the PC police won’t be bashing my door down soon, for my sins, in reporting this. Giving people OTHER options instead or surgery, here, reduces the number of trannies, see, and therefor, reduces tranny political power.)
Live however you want; to me time is too valuable to reply to grey boxes who enjoy playing The Heel. I take immense satisfaction from withholding theirs.
DuckDuckGo “post-op transgender suicide rate” if you care to learn more from the NIH about post-op suicidal trannies. Suicide rates are 4x+ higher post-op.
I learned this YEARS AND YEARS AGO from Jordan B. Peterson - and did my own research afterwards, bc sadly my Female sibling suffers from Transgender disorder (post-double-mastectomy) and I worry for their mental health and well-being.
“post-op transgender suicide rate” 2 hits on Google, no science data to report. I think it is because collecting and reporting this data is just about FORBIDDEN by the science-medical community! See my comments elsewhere here.
But FYI, your lack of a cite for what you say, is pretty sad... If one doesn't know, admitting ass much is commendable. Shit is called "humility"; humility is in seriously short supply, and is a GOOD thing!
But sure, holmes, 10 yr olds are gonna be able to make 'informed consent' about IVF treatments in their 30s.
imagine such a ridiculous premise.
I have known countless women who were sure they didn't want kids and had a 180 change of heart in their late 30's and then had 1 or 2. This is not a rare thing.
But ya, we should trust a confused 8 year old to be able to grasp what they are doing, that all makes sense
But ya, we should trust a confused 8 year old to be able to grasp what they are doing, that all makes sense
It's notable that one of the kids the media used to kick this contagion off a bit over a decade ago, Coy Mathis, hasn't been heard from in years, after his munchie mother spent about 3 of them parading him and her family around all the queer cult celebration events. The family lives in Short Bus California, aka Colorado, and it's not like the Denver media wouldn't be tripping over themselves to promote the now 18-year-old as a True and Honest Woman. Something tells me little "Coy" decided he wasn't a girl at some point and Mommy Dearest had to stop spotlight chasing.
Jared "Jazz Jennings" Bloshinsky, who's another Agent Zero of this bullshit, is so completely fucked up by the years of brainwashing, drugs, and medical interventions he's gotten to become some half-life eldritch horror at this point. A prop for his activist family to parade around.
Even at that, for decades there's been consistent evidence, even presented and clung to by the Gay Community itself, about how bad parents explicitly sexualizing their children and other parts of the community forcibly manipulating them is.
Bullying kids for being gay is the greatest sin anyone can commit, even if the bullying is non-physical and completely avoidable/escapable, but if a parent/teacher/guardian and a doctor bully a kid into mutilating themselves for life, we need to collect all the evidence before we even think about putting a stop to it? On behalf of both sets of kids being bullied: fuck you.
Especially since evidence is mounting that many of the kids being bullied into mutilation are...in fact, just gay.
After the Cass Review came out, there was a tweet I saw from some dude who said, "Thank goodness when I was feeling confused, that my grandmother was there to reassure me that I was simply a very shy gay man and not actually a woman, so I didn't end up doing something I would have definitely regretted later."
Yeah, I don't mean to cast aspersions, I'm absolutely sure there are gay victims of transgender brainwashing but, once again, it's inextricable from "2 men = 1 man + 1 woman". If you said that for every gay person brainwashed into getting themselves reassigned there was a straight person brainwashed into homosexuality (and, rather self-evidently, transitioning from there), I wouldn't and couldn't refute you and, for the last several decades of the gay rights movement, have seen plenty of openly advertised evidence to support the assertion.
Again, re-reading the summary of Robert Swope's critique of The Vagina Monologues in the modern era is just *astounding*:
The controversy resulted in the script being modified in 2008 [8 yrs. after Swope pointed out that the play celebrates an unequivocal statutory rape] to change the age of the statutorily raped girl from 13 to 16 [which 'barely' obviates the age-related statutory rape but still leaves the adult providing alcohol to a minor for sex statutory rape in tact] and to remove the "good rape" line.
Male to female "transgenderism" is a genocide against gay boys.
No, it is not. That is because being gay is not a criteria for being transgender in people with an apparently male sex.
The old South Park episode where Mr. Garrison gets the surgery is actually illustrative of the whole thing. He was pretty pissed off when he realized he wasn't actually a woman and would never get his period, he just removed the thing his boyfriend liked about him.
That episode was way ahead of its time.
Also love how the plastic surgeon agrees to detransition Kyle back to a short Jewish kid and his dad back from being a dolphin. For a nominal fee of course.
Yeah, this is a profit motive on the part of health care systems because it manufactures people who are will always need their 'care' who otherwise would not be a part of the system.
I don't think the Doctor's themselves view it as profit, hell they have no idea what anything costs that they prescribe and I know that first hand, but the researchers and top administrators certainly do.
"hit we’ve known for years that Trannys are 4x more likely to commit suicide AFTER surgery than before" <-- No liar, you know no such thing. It's just a lie you love.
Maybe, just maybe, instead of prescribing drugs to fix kids, we go back to allowing them to run around their neighborhoods and skin their knees. A little sunshine and exercise does wonders for improving the psyche.
Maybe, just maybe, instead of prescribing drugs to
fix kidsbreak kidsDon't give them one millimeter in semantic war.
As James Lindsay correctly says: The left uses the same words as you, but their dictionary is entirely different.
Fair point
"You can't give shit leftards an inch...Because they're shit! You give them an inch, they use it to destroy you!"
--Pope Millei I
"we go back to allowing them to run around their neighborhoods and skin their knees."
Instead, present but not really present activist parents allow them to scroll Tumblr-like sites and rot their brains, in lieu of actually raising them or encouraging healthy activities that take effort
The whole reason this contagion spread in the first place was because it broke out of its containment area on Tumblr around the same time the media started promoting child genital mutilation and self-mortification.
Speaking of self-mortification, Rev. Arthur L. Hicklib has been noticeably absent the last few months. Hopefully the commie fuck lived long enough to see Trump win the election.
"Rev. Arthur L. Hicklib has been noticeably absent the last few months."
Dude, there is way too much fucking Trump Winning going on, I dont think he can even show his face in here without spurging out
I disagree- correlation not causation.
The cause was the culmination of the march through the institutions. The left captured the universities and this marxist indoctrination was passed onto teachers who are now pushing it in the classroom.
I agree that these ideas are pervasive out there. But behind every confused child who is struggling with their gender is a real adult that they trust, cheering them on and validating them for it. Sometimes it is a mom, sometimes a counselor or teacher. But there is always an adult creating this culture. I GUARANTEE.
Sure, that's absolutely the broader reason. I was just referring to the full breakout that happened around 2013, after Yahoo bought it and they had to purge a lot of the really deviant, pedophile-oriented shit from the site. A lot of those freaks migrated to more mainstream forums like Reddit and ended up using the platform to push this crap. Before Yahoo bought it, Tumblr was an absolute cesspit of rad-left queer degeneracy, and it's not an accident that Disney in particular started going to crap when Jennifer Lee hired a bunch of artists and writers based on their work on Tumblr and Reddit.
Column A, Column B, and Column C - Does a pink-haired college Professor who never did any manual labor or had job outside the University and spends time posting to Tumblr or TikTok count as an adult?
Speaking of self-mortification, Rev. Arthur L. Hicklib has been noticeably absent the last few months. Hopefully the commie fuck lived long enough to see Trump win the election.
Again, I don't want to use the term shadowban (partially because depending on circumstances I don't entirely know, the definition doesn't fit) or make any allegations or anything; I'm just going to once again note that 1. Trump won the election, b.) Angela McArdle rather openly stated that she'd gotten death threats from Reason readers and, III - suddenly, some of the more... unscrupulous Team Blue posters, who hate both sides equally, for sure, went silent.
Hicklib wasn't a "both sides" poster, though, he was a full-on marxist sewer rat who followed Volokh here from the Washington Post blog.
Yeah, pure speculation, but there may be reasons other than Trump himself why some of the loonies vaporized.
First do no harm. These experimental therapies come with life long consequences, that's the stated goal. Eugenics sounded like a good idea back in the day and that Mengele guy did some ground breaking work. So sure let's put the Munchhausen moms in charge in consultation with the castration industry. Maybe in thirty years we'll have all the right numbers.
"First do no harm. These experimental therapies come with life long consequences"
The fact that this is even a conversation will be referred to in a few decades in relation to how far we let society lose their collective minds and be gaslit.
ANY treatment that has very clear, significant downsides should be of extreme suspicion, especially in children, and the default answer should be "Absolutely not, unless you prove beyond the shadow of a doubt, in a replicable and actually scientific way, that it is good"
Instead we relied on the "trust me bro" from observably bad studies, by observably biased activists, that could be torn apart by a freshman science major in how bad they were conducted. And all they had to do was add in the emotional blackmail of "then you just want to watch them die" and boom, you are experimenting on kids.
The most astounding thing is the pace they achieved it. We went from 2 genders to...sure sometimes 2 genders, but also 100 other genders, and we should let kids choose a la carte their preferred hormone profile while sterilizing themselves....in less than a decade. Now I do realize the groundwork has been laid well in advance by the gender cult in academia, but still, it got really public in the mid 2010's, and we were chopping shit off kids and sterilizing them a few years later. Social engineering is crazy dangerous.
It's not even about "clear, significant downsides." It exceeds a parent's authority. If you are the trustee of an estate and you gamble a bunch of the money on junk bonds, even if you win big, you were acting unethically. Even if there aren't "Significant" downsides, if you sign the estate up to a contract in perpetuity to last long after you are gone, you have exceeded your authority.
But otherwise I agree with you. This was freaking crazy how quickly it happened.
Eugenics is still a good idea. By definition.
As sympathetic as I am, no writing on this subject is complete without at least considering the possibility of social contagion mixed with a predatory medical industrial complex.
In a less politically-charged environment, these therapies would be limited to "high quality clinical trials" as recommended in the publication.
This would not be covered by any payer, because it's experimental.
" these therapies would be limited to "high quality clinical trials" as recommended in the publication."
They would also be limited to the *actual* edge cases that the trans community bases all their argumentation on: intersex, androgen insensitivity, precocious puberty, etc. Conditions where the normal physiology has varied significantly from normal range due to some abnormality of normal development.
Giving someone who has a functionally normal body cross sex steroids or puberty blockers to completely fuck their body up, and cutting off healthy parts of them because they have a psych condition is fucking malpractice of the highest order, and such patients should never qualify for these treatments at all.
They would be limited to predefined enrollment criteria with measurable outcomes.
It would be the SCIENCE they all claim to follow.
More $tudie$ needed.
Although I affirm the right of adults to ingest whatever they want to ingest without government interference, nevertheless I question the rationality of hormonal teenagers in deciding these things for themselves. The scientific question here should NOT be "Does administration of hormones help or harm teenagers who say ..." since it obviously can do both at the same time. The scientific question should be should highly educated medical professionals cater to the mercuric moods of emotionally unstable teenagers with potentially dangerous and unproven hormones? What approach should rational and concerned parents take in response to their children's moods?
"What approach should rational and concerned parents take in response to their children's moods?"
It should be to foster these children into adulthood with as little permanent intervention as possible, so that the fresh adult can make these decisions for themselves.
Remember people, this is the same magazine that will tell you to your face that Shaken Baby Syndrome/AHT Science is junk science.
You cannot possibly hate them enough.
Shaken Baby Syndrome IS JUNK SCIENCE! That does not mean that you cannot damage a baby by shaking it too hard. The so-called syndrome as a medico-legal concept has been debunked long ago and should never EVER be supported by medical professional testimony in any courtroom proceeding EVER!
As was completely expected, this articles comments delivered perspicacious prose with not even a hint of partisan imbecility.
And on top of that, JFear showing up to bloviate condescendingly about shit he knows nothing about. Some things never change.
Using one’s extensive vocabulary in conversation with ignorant individuals is not in and of itself bloviating. Would you rather jfree spoke to you like you’re a child?
That would be triggering. Many commenters here were apparently molested by graduates of Gender Grooming and Pizza Pedo College (right next door to Billy Bob's Beer and Bait).
And people like you endorse that kind of thing. You're not as smart as you believe you are.
LOL, talk about telling on yourself, JFart. You and that Howdy Doody-ass mayor trying to convince people 16th Street Mall isn't a the toilet bowl of downtown Denver.
I would rather that he not pretend to know about things that he knows nothing about.
JFear is a wonderful example of the person who has never taken the time to ask himself, "Wait, could it be that I am wrong?"
That leads him to make all sorts of silly proclamations that "sound right" to him, without ever exercising even the slightest amount of self skepticism. It leads him to make silly statements like "the way to counter inflation is to obliterate asset prices". He just doesn't get it.
Defend the pompous shit at your peril- siding with a laughing stock is a great form of self selection.
Time for this again.
It used to be dogma that —
* Homosexuality was genetic and unchangeable. This was why gay conversion therapy was banned, even when voluntary.
* Female genital mutilation was about the worst crime possible.
* Chemical castration was immoral, even when voluntarily requested by convicted rapists and pedophiles. It was also unhealthy.
* Children by definition were not adults and not allowed to decide they wanted to smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, or imbibe other drugs.
* Title IX was necessary to provide as many women's sports leagues as men had.
Now it’s dogma that gender is so fluid that pre-school kids must be believed when their teachers brainwash them into thinking their gender has changed, chemical castration is good AND safe when relabeled as puberty blockers, child gender mutilation is not just good but so mandatory that parents can be charged with child abuse for trying to block it, and third-rate male athletes can identify as women and beat everyone else in women's sports.
Homosexuality may very well be genetic. Genetic does not always mean "inherited at fertilization" or "mutation before birth." It can also mean "genetic induction in-utero by such factors as overcrowding in the environment of the mother." Genes can be turned on or off by other (switching) genes. The earliest scientific evidence of this I could find when I researched this many years ago was a study using rats measuring the number of homosexual rats born to mothers in cages with varying amounts of crowding during pregnancy. The social and political questions cannot be properly answered without a firm scientific understanding of the issue.
Also, homosexuality is actually a phenotype, an expressed trait, which is both genetics And environmental as you allude to. The degree that environmental factors influence the phenotype is not clear, and the genes that would make one more or less prone to homosexuality are not completely clear either. People always forget that what is expressed is phenotype, they falsely believe that genetics are purely deterministic. No, two blue eyed parents are not going to have a brown eyed child (but two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed child if they both carry the recessive blue allele) but the degree of blueness will be influenced by the environment. Deeper blue in sunnier areas, lighter blue in areas with less direct sunlight.
Also, homosexuality is actually a phenotype, an expressed trait, which is both genetics And environmental as you allude to.
This is veering pretty hard, and obviously dangerously, into a categorical error and voiding individual behavior. Like saying "People with free speech are a phenotype and anybody without the right combination of genotype, phenotype, and environment cannot develop free speech."
There are known genes that cause distinctly undesirable side effects from drinking and smoking. Two people with perfectly identical copies of these genes can varyingly become an alcoholic smoker or not. A third person, with the exact same genes, can choose not to smoke and drink at all up front. A fourth person, same genes, may be unable to access alcohol. All four of these people can grow up, live, and work in the same, nearly identical environment.
There is no "Unable to reach the top shelf liquor and too limp-wristed to open twist-offs, ergo not alcoholic." phenotype. The invention of the corkscrew or bottle opener was not a genetic, biological event and it's between stupid and dishonest to try and shoehorn it into that paradigm.
No, it actually isn't. Phenotype is a well known scientific concept. Your examples are actually proof of phenotype, e.g. their environment influenced the outcome. One wasn't exposed to alcohol, despite being genetically predisposed they didn't end up as an alcoholic. The other person chose to avoid alcohol, and didn't end up an alcoholic. This is environmental cueing. This is exactly what phenotype is. We don't know what genes do (or if any genes do) influence sexuality and what environmental cues do or don't influence it. Just because you have a genetic predisposition does not mean you will be revealed. There's hundreds, if not thousands of factors involved outside purely genetics. And, I would point out that no allele or combination of alleles have yet been demonstrated that influence sexuality, however, there is some indications that the forebrain of gay males, especially effeminate males, tend to more feminized in their formation. As I stated above, sex hormones have a huge impact on brain formation and development, especially in the forebrain. In utero, males have enzymes that protect the brain from maternal estrogen, however some males, this enzyme is faulty or not fully active. Other things, such as exposure to high estrogen levels consumed post-natal, can also impact brain development. This has been shown in sheep, when rams have been given high doses of estrogen. Further, wethers and steers also tend to be more feminized than full rams and bulls. It is actually really well documented. That is all I meant. Environmental factors can and do change brain development. There can also be genetic defects or mutations that impact brain development and formation. *
*Also, on an interesting note: for many mammals a sign that they are entering heat is what we would label as lesbian activity. In fact, when AI cows, it is common to place a marker on their tails that other cows will rub off (think like a scratch ticket) when they mount them. Or chalk is also used.
No, it actually isn't.
No, you're flat wrong here on a/the ontological level (which you didn't refute). You're working backwards from a conclusion, changing definitions and using specific terms out of context every bit the same way transgender advocates do in order to support a theory that was iffy a century ago and has been progressively debunked since, with plenty of exceptionally murderous and psychotic advocacy along the way.
Phenotype is a well known scientific concept.
Right. Haploidy is a well known scientific concept too but the assertion that the 'H' in Jesus H. Christ stands for "Haploid" because he only had 23 chromosomes and that's why he didn't have any children isn't science. People are familiar with hams and hamsters too, but that doesn't mean that hamsters are 50% hams. The word hams and hamsters mean categorically different things and while some hamsters may be 50% hams, I either need to recategorize by saying the *words* 'hamsters' and 'hams' or I have to dissect some hamsters and demonstrate their hamminess.
A phenotype is an observable trait. You can't observe sexual orientation any more than you can observe free speech. You can observe the behavior of speech or orientation, sexual or otherwise, but you cannot definitively or observably elucidate the freedom or the orientation from a/the behavior. Moreover, the term phenotype didn't just develop ab initio, it was specifically created as a distinction from genotypes. My examples don't and can't serve as proof because there is no free speech gene. Without a free speech gene, there can be no free speech phenotype. But, again category mistakes, that does not mean free speech doesn't exist or that human or other biological speakers can't be free. You even go on to torture the definitions further and contradict yourself on this issue in order to skip any measure of sanity or objectivity in order to reach your conclusion:
We don't know what genes do (or if any genes do) influence sexuality and what environmental cues do or don't influence it. Just because you have a genetic predisposition does not mean you will be revealed. There's hundreds, if not thousands of factors involved outside purely genetics.
You definitively leave the realm of genetics and science here. If you have no gene or can't determine its function you cannot distinguish genotype from phenotype. If the gene you can't identify, and cannot observe the function of even if you could, isn't ever revealed, you definitively don't have a phenotype even if you did have a genotype. You may speculate from a lack of genotypes and identifiable or distinguishable phenotypes but speculation isn't science or fact.
And, I would point out that no allele or combination of alleles have yet been demonstrated that influence sexuality, however, there is some indications that the forebrain of gay males, especially effeminate males, tend to more feminized in their formation.
It's well known that you can isolate males of several species, including humans, among themselves and some who would otherwise be exclusively heterosexual will behave as homosexuals to establish or demonstrate dominance. Do they have feminized brains from gestational milieu? Do their victims? Do they switch back and forth based on the presence of females?Because there are plenty of scans of female brains that show masculinization without the similar homosexuality or behavioral modification. Further, you can observe male homosexual and supposedly trans-identifying individuals who, upon clinical examination, demonstrate more masculine traits/morphology than cis-straight males despite their insistence/proclamations/behavior. Further still, or again, you can observe and diagnose far more clinically pathological behavior among both genders behaviorally *and* genetically without being able to detect or distinguish the abnormality neurologically/morphologically, strongly suggesting that brain morphology or function isn't in any way a clear determinant of behavior. Some, all of this other known fact obviates if not outright refutes 'gestational or near-gestational milieu' as causal and, even then, 'gestational or near-gestational milieu' itself diminishes the genetic argument (which a phenotype requires).
You pretty much admit that you don't have anything even approaching end-to-end proof or even the slightest bit of evidence of any the biological determinism (gene->gestational mileiu->brain morphology->behavioral outcome) you're suggesting? Because, again, it feels like you've got a conclusion and there are many requisite conditions or facts between it and observable, repeatable, and known scientific fact that you're ignoring or assuming to be universally true or correct without the least bit of evidence or rigor.
Environmental factors can and do change brain development.
Right, but this is not a phenotype. Phenotypes can be observed responding to or in response to a change in environment but any biological change in response to environment is not automatically a phenotype. Getting struct by a meteor or captured by a human and injected fully of estrogen post-natal isn't a phenotype. Even if it's being done in the name of science.
No, it is empirically observed fact that gender is so fixed in utero that when someone's gender conflict with their sex -- and they seek to do so per WPATH standard of care -- that they will be observed to benefit immensely from the medical transition of apparent sex and gender endorsed per those standards.
To the tune of 99+ to 1.
Not even one word you wrote about it is real and relevant.
Problem is in the head, not in the body.
They need in-patient mental health care, possibly antipsychotics, and compassionate long-term counseling.
Does that include the cop groupies?
I don't know what "cop groupies" is supposed to mean.
And if that doesn't work - frontal lobotomy at state expense.
Yeah, we can start with the teachers. Maybe that shithead teacher from Fossil Ridge that just got tagged for sexual assault.
Oh My Gosh!
You're telling me that the folks who have been screaming "Follow the Science," and who believe there are something like 75 different genders, and believe that there are no biological differences between men and women...
You mean that they made all this stuff up?
Say it isn't so!
I noticed this buried in the middle of the article:
"The best available evidence reporting on the effects of [hormone therapy] in individuals experiencing [gender dysphoria] ranged from moderate to high certainty for cardiovascular events..."
That sounds like good evidence to me, but I guess in the wake of the COVID-19 transfection agents we're all supposed to believe that "cardiovascular events" in young people are perfectly normal and healthy and nothing to be at all concerned about.
its like the cherry on top
"Aside from fucking up your childs physiology in a way that will make them freaks and sterilizing them....also they get heart disease at a young age and higher cancer risk!"
This was my issue tool. Can someone explain why "High certainty of cardiovascular events" is ok for low to very low certainty for the outcomes?
With many mental issues you can get low to very low certainty of outcome with just a simple placebo. I would think that when that snake oil in question is also causing heart issues, at the very least the state would have an interest before you force it on children.
"Proponents say such treatments are vital for the psychological health and social acceptance of transgender youth."
The studies indicate that the above assertion is almost certainly incorrect. The evidence is also in that puberty blockers cause irrecoverable harm to normal physical development. There is no strong case that puberty blockers do not cause more health problems then they solve and the ethical case for using them is dubious at best.
Unfortunately, ENB (as usual) confuses her wishful thinking with logic. And (as usual) this leads her to trust The Science! ™ in making moral decisions. Just as folk like her tried to let studies determine whether we should force people to mask or vaccinate, she is trying to use studies to prove the ethics, which is just nonsense.
We should not be asking the extent of any HARM done (something that will come down to a bunch of studies that we know now were being heavily corrupted by institutional advocates). We must instead ask what is in the power of a guardian and what is their responsibility.
A Guardian holds a child's right in trust, and their responsibility as the creator of that child (or person assuming that responsibility) is to raise that child to the best of their ability, until they are an adult capable of managing their own life.
Imagine a temporary trustee of an estate- a large property and bank account. They are responsible for being a steward of that property for 18 years until the actual owners are ready to take over and run it. Their responsibility is to ensure the estate is maintained and preserved until the real owners can take control. It would be unethical for the Trustee to sign a permanent groundskeeping contract or put money into a permanent annuity- any arrangement that imposes significant costs on the future owners.
Whether bone density is changed or not, it is a FACT that Hormone treatments impost life-changing (permanent) burdens on the child. Girls given hormone treatments have their voices permanently lowered. Boys who take hormones will grow breast tissue which at the least requires surgery to remove (a future cost) and may be irreversible.
These are facts that do not require studies because they depend on INTENT not results. The INTENT of Hormone Treatment is to change a boy into a girl or a girl into a boy. The intent is to make a change to this child that will last long into their life. The child will be required to continue these treatments and the costs into the future, or they will have to pay significant fees to change themselves back if they decide it was a mistake. It is a breach of ethics for a Parent to perform this procedure, because they do not have the right to sign the child up to such burdens and costs after the parent's role as Trustee has ended.
So that leaves the question of Puberty Blockers. Again, we do not need studies talking about harm- we need only look at INTENT. (Certainly, if it were established that Puberty Blockers cause permanent changes, the reasoning above holds that this is beyond a Parent's authority to perform.) The INTENT of a Puberty Blocker is to delay puberty until after the parent is no longer their trustee.
Puberty is an important time in a child's life, when they grow emotionally, with the support and guidance of their guardian. A parent who chooses to delay puberty is like a trustee refusing to perform key maintenance on a property, or to keep taxes current- instead leaving these burdens for the owner to handle when they return. This is, of course, a dereliction of duty. The Parent's RESPONSIBILITY is to foster this child to adulthood. And pretty much every definition of "Adult" includes puberty.
Now, as with abortion, I can easily point out that baby killers and child castraters are immoral and unethical without believing that we need to create a massive surveillance state to prevent these acts. But saying "No Opinion, and by the way here are all these health professionals we pay for and studies encouraging you to do unethical things" does not a surveillance state make. At the least, government should not be doing anything that encourages these activities, and they should certainly point out that ANY child reaching adulthood has cause for summary judgement of malpractice against any parent and doctor who would perform these acts.
Oddly, all the proposed therapies covered in this article assume that the correct "solution" to gender dysphoria is physical. Yet the medical definition of dysphoria is an emotional condition resulting from a perceived inconsistency between one's physical and mental being. Why the automatic assumption that the mental perception is correct? Where are the comparative studies of mental health treatments to resolve the perceived inconsistency?
Not, by the way, that I think the psychological profession has covered themselves with glory. Their history is full of disasterous policies and failed treatments. But the utter lack of consideration of psychological options seems ... unbalanced.
Again, the appeals to science are a smokescreen. It's like arguing over the science of whether it is better to shoot 20% of the people in the head, or just make 20% more food. It doesn't matter what The Science!™ says about which is better, it isn't morally acceptable to shoot people in the head, regardless of how beneficial you think the results might be.
So if not science, then what? Who gets to decide intent, harm, and risk? The bible?
Son, either quit peeing sitting down and wearing dresses or we are going to Deuteronomy 21:18-21 your ass!
--------------------
18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
---------------------------
So if not science, then what? Who gets to decide intent, harm, and risk? The bible?
I'd say you've done a decent job convincing everyone that "Not you." is a pretty good answer either way.
"So if not science, then what? "
Pick a set of axioms at the consent of the governed. If we sat discussing here all weekend, I would make a long argument that in the end, the best established moral framework is the NAP. It is the one most appropriate governing philosophy for persons like ourselves willing to sit and talk about governing.
But, setting the NAP aside, what is moral- what is right- cannot be determined empirically. It must start from some moral axioms that are assumed. Bible, Koran, NAP- whatever they are cannot be proven by science. No view of right or wrong can be proven empirically.
I know I ramble, and if you want to read more rambling, read my screed above- I make the logical case that regardless of whether or not Puberty Blockers/Hormone Therapy causes harm, it doesn't matter. Because the INTENT of both therapies is morally wrong- either the abdication of a Parent's responsibility to raise an adult, or the intent to commit their ward to obligations once they are an adult.
I have said this before, but Geometry is an axiomatic discipline. You cannot empirically prove that two parallel lines will never touch in a plane. And yet when you accept these axioms, you can use logic to articulate all sorts of proofs- proofs that work in the real world. You don't need to go out and perform longitudinal studies to prove your math, because the axioms are internally, logically consistent.
We must govern that way. If we cede our governing authority to The Science!™ we commit two wrongs: First we abdicate our ability to self govern to proclaimed Authorities- we become Authoritarian. And second we create a perverse incentive to corrupt the science which will rule all the people.
This is not to deny the scientific method's role in us determining facts, or helping individuals make decisions. It just cannot substitute for moral certainty.
Even bringing the psychological aspect of it into consideration, much of this contagion was enabled by a lot of marxist activists in the mental health profession who see queer politics as a "liberating" exercise. Dyke academics like Gayle Rubin and Judith Butler have made word-salad cases for tolerating pedophilia and treating pedophiles like an oppressed class.
Coy Mathis was diagnosed as "trans" by an activist psychiatrist in Boulder, and trannies are known to "therapist shop" to get the medical letter they need to legally begin the transition process. These people aren't trying to improve the mental health of their patients, they're exploiting them as a marxist revolutionary vanguard to subvert normal society, and make self-mortification and child mutilation normal itself.
It really is astounding the degree to which Marxism has crippled thought and destroyed humanity. "Religion is the opiate of the masses" but Marxism is like the HIV-AZT/Wuhan-Big Pharma complex of the masses.
People talk about how The Crusades or The Inquisition were a, if not the, black mark on human history but, Marxism has all that history behind it and is still way more destructive and virulent. People raise the specter of the Catholics in The Crusades declaring "Kill them all and let God sort them out." but Stalin, Mao, and Hitler all replied along the varying lines of "Why bother with the sorting?" and "Why not do both yourself?" orders of magnitude louder.
Yes, the key difference is that when you look at the Catholic (and other) pogroms, you see men acting in direct violation of the bible's teachings. If you look at Marxism, revolution is part and parcel and a firm, deadly grip is a feature not a bug.
You are not incorrect. You do know that in previous renditions of the psychological disorders manuals homosexuality was considered a mental disorder, right?
And removing it ended up being a slippery slope to where we're at today. Who's to stop them from removing other disorders?
Justify the idea either is a mental disorder. Either being gay (or bi) or transgender? Why should what is a normal, occurring at a predictable rate and which for being transgender can clearly benefit from medical assistance alone, be called a psychiatric disorder?
Both were only ever listed as disorders on the basis of non-clinical, sociological reasons -- assumptions which have not proven to be justified.
You do know neither was ever listed for any clinical reason? It was always only an assumption based on prejudice.
There are studies where the patient was given hormones corresponding to their own sex. The dysphoria and depression effectively disappeared in most cases.
Is it a shock that a low T dude might feel like a bitch?
No, there are no such studies where the person actually had a per WPATH standards of care diagnosis of gender dysphoria -- this is why you will cite none.
Burden of proof lies on the accuser. You have no proof that there are no studies.
No, the making the extraordinary claim has the burden of proof.
You are making one of these extraordinary claims:
That gender has no physical existence.
That if it exists it is always identical to the visible sex of a person.
Prove either one. I know you can not.
That's what really gets me about all this. There's a problem some people have where they feel like their body isn't the right one. Who in their right mind would ever presume that this is a physical problem and not a mental one? Maybe for some people the mental problem is incurable and their happiest life will be pretending to be the other sex. But why would anyone go for that first and not try to figure out how to be happy with actual reality?
" Who in their right mind would ever presume that this is a physical problem and not a mental one?"
Near all of Western medical science, having looked at the matter over the course of over 100 years and having discarded every other idea, because all other ideas were factually falsified -- contradicted by objective physical measurements and clinical results. Being transgender is a physical, biological, and potentially quite stressful result of the usual mix of genes and in utero environment occurring in humanity. It occurs noticeably about 1 person in 150, and to a degree where medical transition is sought about 1 time in 450.
Because there is none, you will be unable to cite evidence to the contrary which withstands scrutiny.
If little Johnny is too young to consent to sticking his penis into a vagina, he is too young to consent to turning his penis into a vagina.
It suggests, also, a highly individualistic approach—neither the hyper-liberal prescribing patterns that some supporters advocate, nor the extremely restrictive schemes that detractors want. Ultimately, these analyses seem to caution against more universal solutions, for now.
Yes. This is the answer. Sweeping bans or one-size-fits-all 'solutions' are not the way to go.
IDK, I kind of take a "burning the witch" approach to this.
Sure, I know some people don't believe that we should have to suffer a witch to live and that they are brides of Satan and all; however, I am not entirely confident that the fix is entirely warranted. After all, others believe that suffering a witch to live isn't really all that bad and that perhaps we shouldn't judge women by who they want to marry or judge them based on the character and actions of their husband. Not to mention, witch burning is very much prone to to abuse and history has shown plenty of innocents have been caught up in what is a very permanent solution. End the end, I think sweeping bans of witch burning is probably for the best.
The ideal scenario would be perfectly targeted trials in appropriate patients.
Being that the medical system at large just showed they are happy to experiment on perfectly healthy and normal but confused kids, it would seem we cant really trust them to go that route.
So just stopping the entire thing in its tracks is a good starting point. Maybe we can resume in 5-10 years, with highly selected and targeted cases of *actual* intersex or developmentally abnormal kids, in highly scrutinized and strict trials.
But we clearly just watched the supposed experts take the ball and run with it mutilating and sterilizing kids. So now they have to sit in time out
"perfectly targeted trials in appropriate patients."
There are no appropriate patients for sex changes. It is quackery. Full stop.
Being that the medical system at large just showed they are happy to experiment on perfectly healthy and normal but confused kids
You can't possibly believe this statement is truthful rather than just a right-wing talking point, right?
No one was doing medical experiments on healthy kids. That is just absurd.
"No one was doing medical experiments on healthy kids. That is just absurd."
Did you really crawl out of your hole after being disproven so many times that said "moral panic"..."isnt happening" that you want another go around?
Definitionally, most of these kids they are experimenting on ARE actually healthy kids. They have normal bodies and normal physiology. And they have a significant mental health condition.
This is literally the entire premise of the argument not to experiment on them.
I know your job is to throw smoke and distract to push the left wing agenda, but please, take another L in case any passers-by were confused about your certainty on these topics.
Almost none of the genpop is actually intersex, ambiguous, etc. Almost all of the people receiving these treatments and being put into this pipeline are normal XX or XY individuals that have mental health issues and a rough life.
Please dont bring your weak shit around here on this topic, youll get slapped around just like you did with CRT
The only thing this is a moral panic by Social Conservatives who think transgender people are worthless scum unworthy of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
You are the monster you claim here you are fighting, you are a monstrous child abuser.
You can't slap anyone around, you don't know anything real about it.
Low T Jeffy chimes in on the nuance of mutilating kids.
Shocking.
Gender affirming care is the individualistic approach, every other treatment approach is conversion therapy.
The kids can start taking hormones on their 18th Birthday. Or, in Libertopia, the "gender-affirming" drugs can be stocked alongside the heroin in vending machines in the Middle School lunchroom.
Why do you want to force someone who is a girl to have a beard and a deep voice? Why do you want to force someone who is a boy to have breasts and a period? Why do you want to force that on them?
Just the latest in the series of psychiatric quackeries that attempt to turn people's unwanted thoughts into biologic syndromes. This one has the bad fortune to be tied up much more than most with a socio-political alignment.
No, this is a moral panic as stupid as all of them, and it is the ideological objection by Social Conservatives to biological reality and medical help for a rare biological circumstance.
The studies make no such case. In any case without significant evidence of good outcomes, utilizing procedures and drugs that have permanent irreversible effects, which hormones and puberty blockers do, on those unable to legally or mentally consent in an informed matter is outright fucking evil.
Except puberty blockers have no permanent effects, and an absolute limit of those taking HRT for this purpose who regret it is 5%, with the 95% confidence level of regret being less than 1%.
What is evil is forcing boys to have breasts and periods and forcing girls to have beads and deep voices. Why do you want to do that?
Most commenters here could really use a dose of drugs.
How a Dose of MDMA Transformed a White Nationalist
Imagine what it would do to your kids.
Imagine what it would do to gang members in the projects.
Haha. Just kidding. Who cares about them, right J? Let them murder each other. Best to obsess over those damn crackers.
This is why you’re losing bigly. Please continue.
The only white nationalist here is Misek.
Haha. Nonsense. Misek just didn't get the Richard Spencer memo. So the commentariat can go to Charlottesville and chant 'Jews will not replace us' and turn around and praise the ethnonationalism of Israel and call others (including most Jews in the US) 'anti-semitic' as a white nationalist weapon.
You can see the white nationalist commentariat every time there's an article about crime, police, race, ethnic politics, the Civil War, Abraham Lincoln, the Civil Rights Act of 1964, MLK, zoning, Muslims, welfare, etc.
Your hallucinations are becoming more severe. Get help.
Who here was chanting, "The Jews will not replace us."
Shouldn't you be in Gaza fighting the genocide?
We should all be fighting the genocide in Gaza regardless of where we are.
There is no such thing happening.
Speaking from experience, JFart? Like Coloradans need yet another reason to get drugged out of their gourds.
But we clearly just watched the supposed experts take the ball and run with it mutilating and sterilizing kids. So now they have to sit in time out
Maybe three generations of imbeciles is enough...?
That or perhaps they just view this as preemptive abortion by making sure white people (who comprise the vast majority of this group) don't reproduce and spread their innate evil into the world.
Same garbage excuse they've been using for a century for this kind of stuff.
It does make one think though. For example, they obviously don't think this is a genetic condition since if it was the early sterilization of everyone who believes this way would mean there wouldn't be any more of them. Kind of 'cuts the nuts' off their argument that this is an inherent trait, which admits that they are suggesting surgical solutions to a mental condition.
"They let me out of the looney bin! And gave me a hat!"
I mean, just round up everyone with the hats. Protip - they're wearing the wrong clothes, pretend they're "married" (or, worse, are raping children under the color of "adoptive gay family"), complain about cakes, and wave literal flags all day long.
Also, for some odd reason, many - at least among men (and especially the ones cosplaying women) - have this really weird and seemingly intentional timbre to their voice. Like, oh my god, you like gotta totally make it sound like you're super queer so people will know it because that's like your whole like identity or whatever oh my god *drinks bud light*.
What's that about?
Also, I finally figured out your acronym.
Bring Youngins Or Don't Bother.
I'm right, right? Yea, I'm right.
You don't really read what people write, or if you do you lack any comprehension.
You talked about three generations of imbeciles. You mistakenly asserted this as "white people" - but in reality, you were describing the LGBT Pedo. Many of which probably are white, but their skin color isn't the common denominator.
They're not imbeciles. They're asylum escapees - allowed to escape, but escaped all the same. And they're very CLEARLY so (like I said, they wave flags and you can tell by their weird unnatural voice tones). They make NO effort to hide their mental problems.
All we have to do is round them back up, put them in cells, and treat them. Or just keep them there forever if they resist treatment. Whatever. I don't really care which.
All I know is that the Rainbow Zulock Club should in no way be allowed to comingle in mainstream society. If that means the end of the pRiDe movement, then so be it. Long past time to put the gays back where they belong. They have no place in normal society. None. None whatsoever.
For most minors experiencing gender dysphoria, the condition will desist once through puberty , and the vast majority of them will grow up to be gay but not trans if their development isn't stopped with puberty blockers, cross-sex hormones and surgeries. A few whose gender dysphoria persists might decide to medically transition as adults. But there is no clinical test to determine whose gender dysphoria will persist into adulthood and whose will not. Kids don't understand what they're giving up -- the ability to experience orgasm as well as sterility, and in their place life-long dependence on hormone therapy. So it is unethical to subject young people to so called "gender-affirming care."
Parents, however, are being told by activists that all the questions are settled and anyone who disagrees is a Trumpist and a transphobe.
"For most minors experiencing gender dysphoria, the condition will desist once through puberty"
That is a lie. The lie was created by claiming people who did not have gender dysphoria had it.
The fact is that of the youth who meet the criteria for beginning medically assisted transition of apparent sex and gender, less than 5% choose not to complete it while they are youth, and fewer than 1% claim they were a false positive in the first place.
"But there is no clinical test to determine whose gender dysphoria will persist into adulthood and whose will not." <-- Another lie. The application of the WPATH standards of care is that test you claim does not exist.
Should lobotomies have been left up to parents -- the experts told Joe Kennedy it was the best thing for an anxious, confused child.
So what? Lobotomies were a flash in the pan of chiefly 10~15 years in popularity, and fell from favor owing to obvious and near universal negative consequences. The fact is that gender affirming care has an overall falsity rate lower than 0.00222...% The "2" repeats. Firstly because only about 1 in 150 people ever colorably, potentially have gender dysphoria. That knocks out 99.3% of the human population from even potentially having medical transition of apparent sex and gender endorsed for them per WPATH standards of care. Of those who colorably may have such a diagnosis, only about 1/3rd choose to be considered for such medical transition. Of those endorsed for such transition, less than 1% regret it as being a false positive.
Of those who do regret it as being a false positive, apparently even in the United State's famously litigious society, less than 1% of those "regretters" feel they have cause to sue, that they have evidence of malpractice.
People like Chloe Cole are shilled around the county and apparently by her own admission well paid to be shills (~$200k/yr), but they are still less than 1 in 4,500,000 people at most.
Listening to her alone instead of the over 99 people who benefited immensely from gender affirming care is the same thing as you claiming those 99 people aren't worth as much as one "Chloe Cole".
So, there's no evidence that poisoning children with puberty blockers has any health benefit—therefore the decision about whether to use them should be left to parents and doctors? No, you sick bitch, that is exactly why harming kids with this "medicine" should be criminal.
There is no such poisoning, and immense evidence the use of puberty blockers er WPATH standards of care has immense beneficial effect. The SEGM hate group produced these "studies" and is reliable source of propaganda only.
I'm still looking for the studies that look at people who took puberty blockers during adolescence, but then decided NOT to medically and surgically transition when they were old enough to get such "therapy". The advocates of puberty blockers claim that they can be discontinued with no lasting effects, and that maturation will then continue normally, but to know that, we would have to look at people who stopped taking them and did NOT proceed to hormone treatments or other medical interventions. I have not been able to find any such studies, and such individuals appear to be rare.
Why are you pretending a lack of evidence you wish existed proves it is not looked for?
Puberty blockers have been in use for the two use cases for them which exist for youth for over 40 years for precocious puberty, and for 30 years for gender dysphoria. In all of that time although reported adverse events are recorded if anything the moreso for these drugs as a class than for most drugs -- no potential side effect has occurred in the population taking or having taken them above baseline for a like population not taking them.
The usual "abundance of caution" approach to potential side effect reporting and listing is fully in effect with puberty blockers, this is seen in the fact that pseudo tumor cerebri is listed as a potential side effect -- even though the drugs would be expected to suppress that condition, and in fact do so.
"The fact that there's no consensus is all the more reason to leave this decision to patients, parents, and doctors rather than the state."
Even when patients, parents, and doctors fall prey to ideological capture? Just because the evidence doesn't explicitly negate the efficacy of these treatments doesn't mean it should be left up to the discretion of doctors.
You do not need evidence of harm to logically conclude that puberty blockers are a dereliction of parental duty and hormone treatments are an abuse of them.
Logically, yes, you do need such evidence. In fact, there is none. That is why you will cite none.
No you don't.
The intent of a puberty blocker is to delay a child's natural development into adulthood. Whether puberty blockers can actually, safely, accomplish this intent is a distraction. The intent itself is a dereliction of a Parent's duty- to foster their child into adulthood.
The intent of hormone treatments and surgery is to make a permanent and lasting change to a child's body that will last far past the Parent's term as guardian of that child's care. It doesn't matter whether The Science!™ has shown these treatments to be safe. The INTENT is to consign the child to permanent changes long after the Parent is done, and so it is an ethical abuse of power.
I know this is difficult for you, but parachuting into a thread long after its dead has the peril of your gibbering to make you look like a fool.
There is no evidence of any ideological capture but on the Social Conservative side of things.
There is in fact overwhelming consensus about this topic -- only bible thumping ideologues and cranks take the gender critical position seriously. They have no evidence of non-laughable provenance at all supporting them. None.
The frickin word is SEX, not gender! Particularly if gender is about fitting into social patterns (which are as varied as the number of languages). Injecting hormones or drugs is about the physical body, SEX, not "gender".
Aside from that, show me a kid you is completely comfortable with puberty, and I'll find you a nice unicorn for your zoo.
I'm as libertarian as any you'll find around here when it comes to mature adults, but this is conversation about children who have been captured by a cult.
"I'm as libertarian as any you'll find around here" <-- No you are not. You willfully uneducated about this topic and for the sake of lies you love you are perfectly happy to force, to mandate in law, that some boys be made to grow up with beards and periods, and, that some girls be made to grow up with breasts and deep voices.
"Aside from that, show me a kid you is completely comfortable with puberty, and I'll find you a nice unicorn for your zoo." <-- So what? That has nothing to do with it.
The words involved are sax and gender, both. Both in this topic are physical, biological sexually dimorphic characteristics found in a person. You are pretending you have any excuse to believe one of these two stupidities is true:
That gender has no physical existence.
That gender exists but is magically always identical to the sex of person.
Whichever lie you are telling yourself, neither is true.
What we find again is that healthcare decisions are best made by patients, the people supporting them and the patients' doctor. Is this really any surprise. Science can help us understand but most often the individual needs to make the final decision.
Unfortunately these decisions often have major, and I mean MAJOR lifelong psychological and physiological health consequences and are oftentimes made by ill informed and/or less than altruistic individuals.
Quite a dilemma.
So all cases like this are resolved in law by a barring of the action.
You never have perfect evidence or unassailable evidence, despite Hillary basing a whole campaign on that approach.
She didn't learn a thing . She went on to give a ridculed answer about Reconstruction that was attacked from all sides for its PollyAnna out-of-touch nonsense
JANUARY 2016 --- this causes anyone who knows history to marvel with open-mounted astonishment
Hillary Clinton is taking flak today for her summary repetition of the white supremacist Dunning School of historical interpretation, which held that the attempt in the 1860s and 1870s to provide African Americans with their civil rights was a terrible imposition on the white folks of the South.
[Lincoln] was willing to reconcile and forgive. And I don’t know what our country might have been like had he not been murdered, but I bet that it might have been a little less rancorous, a little more forgiving and tolerant, that might possibly have brought people back together more quickly.
But instead, you know, we had Reconstruction, we had the re-instigation of segregation and Jim Crow. We had people in the South feeling totally discouraged and defiant. So, I really do believe he could have very well put us on a different path.… let’s also think about how we do try to summon up those better angels, and to treat each other, even when we disagree, fundamentally disagree, treat each other with more respect, and agree to disagree more civilly, and try to be inspired by, I think, the greatest of our presidents.
I’ll leave critiques of the Dunning School in other hands because I think they’re obvious, sadly, and Clinton should really know better.
Mark this day, ENB finally gets one right.
These reviews were both commissioned and paid for by the society for evidence based gender medicine, which has been criticized for being founded on the belief that being transgender is inherently bad and for disseminating contrarian views to undermine access to medical care. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-law-medicine-and-ethics/article/antitransgender-medical-expert-industry/25EFFECB8F71CA9A37F9F089E13BC41E
This article would have been much better if Elizabeth Nolan Brown had reported on who commissioned the research and what they are all about.
Sorry, troon, your Megelean medical experimentation is evil personified. This you, by the way?
I just posted "Fat Femboy Assturbating Porn GIF by sewblon | RedGIFs" on Reddit
Here's a tip, you troon freak--use a screenname next time that doesn't match your Weimar-level degeneracy.
It's you Latter Day Pharisees trying to abuse children. You want to force boys to have breasts and periods, you want to force girls to have beards and deep voices.
Lying about someone doesn't make it true about that person. Transgenderism has no basis in reality.
"Transgenderism has no basis in reality."
That is a lie. This is what is real and relevant of transgender people.
https://taliaperkinssspace.quora.com/People-are-born-transgender-they-are-not-mentally-ill-it-is-no-paraphilia-it-is-a-physical-birth-defect-no-more-a-men
Not a monetized link.
it's impossible to say whether puberty blockers and hormone therapy are helpful or harmful for young people with gender-related distress
Is it really, though?
Indeed. It is definite that when endorsed per WPATH standards of care, they will be helpful 95%~99% of the time.
The more recently the data has been collected, the more the error bars to the data shift towards 99%+, because those standards of care have only been improving over the decades.
I've yet to hear a good argument on why it is a good and safe to give a male estrogen and puberty blockers to make them feel more feminine, and it is good to give a female puberty blockers and testosterone to make them feel more masucilne, but it is somehow a bad to give the male child testosterone to make them feel more masculine, or the girl child estrogen to make them feel more feminine?
Surely the hormones your body produces are safer to amplify, and it seems logical that if it is possible, it will always be easier to live with a gender that aligns with as the sex you were born.
Seems like gender affirming treatment should also include trying to affirm the gender that lines up with your sex.
"Seems like gender affirming treatment should also include trying to affirm the gender that lines up with your sex." <-- Why? There is only one gender to a person. It cannot be changed.
That is why medically assisted transition of apparent sex and gender is ever medically endorsed -- and why it works so well.
"I've yet to hear a good argument on why it is a good and safe to give a male estrogen and puberty blockers to make them feel more feminine, and it is good to give a female puberty blockers and testosterone to make them feel more masucilne, but it is somehow a bad to give the male child testosterone to make them feel more masculine, or the girl child estrogen to make them feel more feminine?" <--- Then you have not been paying attention have you?
HRT can be affirmative of or contrary the gender of person. Why do you think it is iver a good thing to try to make a man feel like a woman? Or the reverse? Especially when it will fail?
Gender is biological, it is physical. It develops in a person in utero, and no technology known can change it in any way.
This is why David Reimer could not be raised happily as a girl, neither were any of the other victims of John Money's "big idea".
Hormones do not create gender.
Realistically next to nothing is improved by a one-size fits-all approach. Particularly related to medical decisions. Related to gender dysphoria, there could be numerous causes. Pretending that gender dysphoria is not a mental health issue is counterproductive.
Mental health issues can be difficult to address as they typically are a delicate balancing act. These issues really need to be handled in an extremely local hands-on fashion and not by some pencil pushing bureaucrat.
Simply acknowledging their delusion may be easier for the pencil pushing bureaucrats, but it does not address the problem and only masks the issue which will likely popup potentially in another way.
Gender affirming care is the only individualistic approach. Every other treatment approach to gender dysphoria is some sort of aversive/oppositional conversion therapy.
There is no delusion involved in being transgender.
You find out for yourself. I only ask "WHAT IF IF IF THIS IS TRUE?"
A study from 1988 found that 54% of sex killers investigated were transvestites.
Other studies have found a transvestism rate of 40% among sexually sadistic murderers, a “high frequency of…gender dysphoria in sexual homicide perpetrators,” and a clear link between gender dysphoria and sexual sadism.
Sure it did. You can cite that "study" ?