Delay Deny Depose

Plus: David Sacks tapped by Trump, Daniel Penny sued, Javier Milei watch, and more...

Bullet casings found following health care CEO murder: "The words 'delay,' 'deny' and possibly 'depose' appeared on shell casings and bullets recovered from the scene of the [United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson] shooting in New York City, according to New York City Police Department officials," per CBS News. "Law enforcement officials said they are examining whether the words relate to a possible motive involving insurance companies and their responses to claims."

I covered the murder of Thompson in yesterday's Roundup. It's a tragic story, and the killer has not been apprehended yet, so we still do not know very much about his motives; whether it was murder for hire (as some people have suggested); or whether a spurned patient was in some way connected. Internet discourse is going absolutely wild, with people venting rage for health insurance companies, frequently betraying how little they actually know about how the system works.

Smarter takes below:

You can see this in the UHC exec shooting. "Health insurance executives who deny claims should be shot" is a common point of view. "Doctors who refuse to perform a procedure for free should be shot" and "hospital administrators who expect bills to be paid should be shot" are not https://t.co/pWN4Nu0PjN

— bob's burgers urbanist ????️ (@yhdistyminen) December 5, 2024

Insurance corps being seen as the bad guys in US healthcare is a tremendous psyop by hospitals. When one gets an absurd bill from the hospital, the immediate reaction is to blame the insurance co. for objecting to it, not the hospital for giving you an absurd bill. Amazing.

— Christian Britschgi (@christianbrits) December 5, 2024

There's an interesting magical thinking belief that keeps emerging that greedy C-suiters at these health insurers merely want to line their pockets with wads of cash while denying needed services to their customers. There's another bit of magical thinking that insurers can simply put no parameters on services, issuing no guidelines and making no calls about health care system overuse. Some people appear to believe that the hospitals who ratchet up the medical bills in the first place—knowing that insurers will pay massive chunks of it—are blameless. Still others believe that single-payer health care would solve this whole thing, and there would be high-quality care and no long wait times for services rendered—something not seen in, for example, our neighbor to the north, which has a single-payer health care system. ("The entirety of Canada has fewer MRI machines than… Pittsburgh," wrote journalist Mark Hemingway on X.)

Since we are talking about healthcare today, it's worth noting that the single payer systems in Canada and the UK are wildly worse than most Americans realize.

These are wait times in weeks (!!!) to see doctors in Canada. pic.twitter.com/kpMk4uCE6d

— Wally Nowinski (@Nowooski) December 5, 2024

The cost of "free" healthcare in Canada. Hundreds of people line up to get a family doctor like it's the new iPhone. Wait times of 5-6 hours. pic.twitter.com/pawFswRmxe

— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) August 18, 2024

It's like half the internet must greet health care CEO assassination as a good and noble thing, and half the internet must spend time carefully sifting through the root causes that result in people being dissatisfied by the existing system, and never the two shall meet.

David Sacks, AI/crypto czar: One of the "besties" from the All-In podcast has been tapped by President-elect Donald Trump to serve in the administration as an artificial intelligence and crypto czar—positions that have not existed until now, but signal Trump's intent to pay attention to both industries.

Regardless of your thoughts on the cringiness of 50-year-old men calling each other "besties," or Sacks in general, this is probably a good pick. Sacks "will focus on making America the clear global leader" in artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency, per Trump's Truth Social post announcing the pick. Sacks will "safeguard Free Speech online" and "work on a legal framework so the Crypto industry has the clarity it has been asking for." In that position, it is probably far better to have venture capitalists/former PayPal mafia-ers/actual tech insiders than those with outright hostility to Silicon Valley.

"The appointment won't require Sacks to divest or publicly disclose his assets. Like [Elon] Musk, Sacks will be a special government employee. He can serve a maximum of 130 days per year, with or without compensation," notes Bloomberg. "However, conflict of interest rules apply to special government employees, meaning Sacks will have to recuse himself from matters that could impact his holdings."

---

Scenes from New York: 

"The father of Jordan Neely, a 30-year-old homeless man who died on a New York City subway car last year after another passenger put him in a chokehold, filed a lawsuit on Wednesday against Daniel Penny, the man who choked his son," reports The New York Times. "The suit comes as a jury in Manhattan is deliberating in Mr. Penny's criminal trial to determine whether he is culpable in Mr. Neely's death."

The suit filed by Andre Zachery seeks unspecified damages for the physical assault and battery of Zachery's son, Neely. Zachery and Neely had been estranged for years, and Neely had moved in and out of shelters, not staying with family. Neely had entered the foster care system at 14, following the murder of his mother at the hands of an abusive boyfriend. It's odd, to put it lightly, that Zachery was seemingly unable to provide support to his son at critical junctures while he was still alive, but that he's interested in a payout now that he's been killed.

As for the criminal trial, Penny has been charged with manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide, facing either acquittal or up to 15 years in prison. "Penny's lawyers have argued in court that it is impossible to know how much pressure he exerted when he put Mr. Neely in a chokehold, and that it was in fact Mr. Neely's schizophrenia, synthetic marijuana use and sickle cell trait that led to his death," notes the Times.

---

QUICK HITS

• Is Javier Milei a madman or a savior? Reason's Zach Weissmueller traveled to Argentina to investigate. I must say: I am obviously a Weissmueller partisan, but this documentary is truly a can't-miss.

• "Glamour offers a promise of escape and transformation," writes former Reason Editor in Chief Virginia Postrel in Works in Progress. "It focuses deep, often unarticulated longings on an image or idea that makes them feel attainable. Both the longings—for wealth, happiness, security, comfort, recognition, adventure, love, tranquility, freedom, or respect—and the objects that represent them vary from person to person, culture to culture, era to era. In the twentieth-century, 'the future' was a glamorous concept."
• Absolutely fascinating thread:

On TikTok there is AdjusterTok, where work from home insurance agents video their side of calls explaining how car insurance works to irritated people, and it's quite sobering stuff. People don't really know what insurance is, it's just some magical thing to make stuff better.

— SwiftOnSecurity (@SwiftOnSecurity) July 17, 2024

• Elon Musk is now America's biggest political donor, reports Bloomberg.
• Appreciate ANY and ALL anti-Bluesky content:

"I'm leaving twitter, this place is too toxic and crazy"

*signs up for Assassination Circle Jerk dot com*

— David Burge (@iowahawkblog) December 5, 2024

• Saving my plea for the very end. Would you mind supporting our journalism? If you like Roundup in particular, please mention that in the comment of your donation. We're almost in the home stretch, and these annoying pleas will cease soon (but my gratitude won't!).

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

If you like Roundup in particular, please mention that in the comment of your donation.

But even the donation comments section is toxic!

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Why? Is jeffsarc commenting there?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Newly released emails show Pelosi and democrats working to give Byrd a hefty bonus for shooting babbit.

The records show that pressure also came from then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's staff and from then-Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, causing Capitol Police to find any solution they could to make Byrd and Democrats happy. Despite the extraordinary assistance, Byrd expressed dissatisfaction and continued to insist he deserved more, to the chagrin of Capitol Police officials, according to records assembled by Congress.

"We play the game as you request and then once we’re in compliance You guys change the rules on us,” Byrd wrote to U.S. Capitol Police General Counsel Thomas DiBiase in November 2021 after being informed he wouldn't be able to immediately access charitable funds from a memorial fund for fallen or wounded officers.

File
2021.11.16 - Re Memorial Fund (play the game).pdf
The department's chief later told Byrd he would not be offered any further assistance from the memorial fund, but Capitol Police instead helped set up a GoFundMe that landed Byrd more than $160,000 in extra funds. Rep. Eric Swalwell, D- Calif., was one of the many progressives who donated to and promoted the fundraising.

A go fund me, huge award from a police fund for those who are part of some form of violence. And a promotion despite a terrible emplpyment record.

https://justthenews.com/accountability/hldofficer-who-shot-j6-protestor-shown-favoritism-capitol-police-under-political

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Sarc's finally found a Go Fund Me he can wish he had supported if he hadn't needed the booze.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Still the only cop sarc seems to love.

[Marshal]

Holy shit, are you kidding me? Fucking outrageous.

What does he have over them that they are so "helpful"? Was he in the room when they discussed their reasons for not increasing security for the known protests?

[CountmontyC]

Once you hire and pay an assassin they at very least have a lien against you. If they want to keep him quiet they will pay over and over again.

[Jerry B.]

So, now we know the going price for a political hit?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Byrd seems to think the price is higher.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

FREE MARKETS!

[Ra's al Gore]

Science Shock: U.K. Met Office is “Inventing” Temperature Data from 100 Non-Existent Stations
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/11/05/science-shock-u-k-met-office-is-inventing-temperature-data-from-100-non-existent-stations/

In his home county of Kent, Sanders charges that four of the eight sites identified by the Met Office, namely Dungeness, Folkestone, Dover and Gillingham – which all produce rolling temperature averages to the second decimal place of a degree – are “fiction”. Sanders notes that there has been no weather station at Dungeness since 1986. The Daily Sceptic is able to confirm that none of the four stations appear in the list of Met sites with a classification from the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO). The Met Office directs online inquiries about Dover to the ”nearest climate station” at Dover Harbour (Beach) and provides a full set of rolling 30-year averages. According to Met Office co-ordinates, the site is on Dover beach as the Google Earth photo below shows. It seems unlikely that any scientific organisation would site a temperature monitoring station that is likely to be submerged on a regular basis. Who is running this station on the beach, have accurate records been kept for 30 years and why is it not listed under the 380 sites that are given a WMO rating?

[Quo Usque Tandem]

I compare it to gross inflation of numbers for issues such as human trafficking; if it's for a "good cause," then what's the harm, right?

Otherwise you must hate children, or kittens, etc. Anytime a moral panic is involved, mendacity follows.

[mad.casual]

Except, you know, we don't all sex traffic children by doing our grocery shopping every week, society isn't exactly cast back to the Stone Age if everyone having sex is consenting and over the age of 18, and even individual instances of people exploiting others who lack agency or without or against consent really is a bit of a moral problem.

Not all moral panics or "moral panics" are the same.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

"A moral panic is a widespread feeling of fear that a community or society is threatened by an evil person or thing. It's characterized by a sudden increase in concern over a group or activity, along with calls for suppression and control.'Some examples of moral panics include: Youth gangs, School violence, Widespread child abuse, and Satanism.

The concept of moral panic is used by students of social problems, deviance, and politics. It's a socio-psychological phenomenon that involves societies focusing their attention on a specific threat and reacting with outrage.

The media are considered to be especially important in the early stages of a moral panic, as they produce "processed or coded images" of deviance.

Clowns lurking out of the woods in white vans to steal your children? Climate hysteria? Red Scare? Salem witch trials? No they are not the same, but exaggerations are always part of the mix.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Not the same things, but suggested as models for "reporting" in the same J-school class.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

That I believe; it's a 300 level course followed by capstone class in gaslighting and protecting your favored political class.

[Don't look at me!]

sCiEnCe!

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

I think if there's ever a real investigation we're going to find that this happened everywhere.

[Ra's al Gore]

I can't find the citation, but they deleted one station that was out in a field and replaced it with the average of nearby ones that are in urban heat islands.

[Ron]

they have also done this to make temperature claims for place without temperature reading they just average between locations. I've seen similar land surveys where they average between locations and when you get there there are hills and dales in between that totally f up what was hoped for in terrain

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Look, once you accept (submit) to the Holy Science, then you must help data to conform to the desired outcome. How else can we save democracy?

[Quo Usque Tandem]

To do otherwise would be heresy [and you know what happens to heretics; they get burned at the stake and add to the atmospheric carbon, which then gets counted too].

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

It does. Australia is especially egregious. They admit that many of their "temp stations" are just algorithms that provide interior temp "measurements."

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Look up Chris Martz on X (Twitter) @ChrisMartzWX. He does a marvelous job of detailing how bad many of these weather stations are. How they violate protocol being near buildings and pavement, and how some stations don’t actually exist at all.

[Chupacabra]

A few years ago, Watts Up with That did a review of every station in the US, and found that something like 96% were invalid. Many were placed in areas surrounded by concrete, and right behind an AC unit, to intentionally drive up the temp readings.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

I’ve seen those as well. There are hundreds of stations that do not meet even the basic minimum requirements for accurate measurement.

[Don’t. Get. Eliminated. (formerly R Mac)]

I remember back in the Neal Bortz days him reporting that one of the stations was placed at an airport where exhaust from jets would raise it’s temperature.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

One for here is in a parking depot lot with cars constantly running and going in and out. 30 years ago it was in a grass park.

[Medulla Oblongata]

And we recently are being told that the 2023/2024 heat waves are being caused by a lack of cloud cover decreasing the Earth's albedo.

It is ironic that effective pollution controls have reduced aerosol particulates that helps create clouds...so that cleaner air leads to hotter temperatures.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

I had subscriptions to Nature and Science until they finally got too political. Memory sez there were one or two articles a year on new developments in climate modeling, and it was amazing how basic the "improvements" were -- cloud cover, mountains, humidity. I shit you not -- some of the most basic aspects of weather and climate added to climate modeling long after they'd begun using them for scaring politicians and enticing bureaucrats into shelling out the dough.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Get and read "Unsettled", Koonin, and "Climate Uncertainty and Risk", Curry, to find out how bad it is.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

I have, and others. Fauci only drove in the final nails. Climate lies were what really hammered home the hypocrisy of government-funded "science".

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

This is one of the core statements of Eisenhower's farewell speech that always gets overlooked:

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

AKA Lysenkoism.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I always suspected that Ike was MAGA.

[mamabug]

Nah, he was just MAG

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

Shocked! Totally, utterly unbelievable! No way that's true!

Are things a Leftist Branch Covidian might say.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The words 'delay,' 'deny' and possibly 'depose' appeared on shell casings...

Maybe it was Hillary.

[Idaho-Bob]

I'm waiting for the assassin's cases that say "not all", "rights are", "absolute".

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Pulling from the Britches tweet that Liz posted:

When one gets an absurd bill from the hospital, the immediate reaction is to blame the insurance co. for objecting to it, not the hospital for giving you an absurd bill. Amazing.

Good evidence that even if they don't comment here, they're reading what we put down and taking it into consideration. What was it I said again yesterday? Oh, yeah:

The state of medical treatment in this country is based off of the fallacious belief that there's an unlimited pool of money to pay for every little thing (not surprisingly, a common belief that became popular right around the time the marxists started infiltrating western institutions 100 years ago). The boogeyman of "CEO pay" is invoked whenever discussion on these costs comes up, while the massive pay demands of the medical industry itself are never explored in detail.
I've mentioned this before, but when our kids were born, the hospital charged insurance $25,000 for the delivery and two nights in a private room. 60 years ago, that was about $1,000, inflation-adjusted. Insurance paid about $17,000 of that charge and disallowed the rest. So what was the actual cost?

It all goes back to the post-modern neo-marxist belief that everything that provides a decent life should be "free", and anyone who argues against that is an oppressor.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Marxists are just an especially mean variety of bureaucrats that truly believe committee declarations control reality.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

And they never once consider than $10 million is a tiny, tiny sliver of the $290 billion that one company takes in. Even if the CEO was paid 10 times that, it would barely amount to a rounding error.

[Ikeepsearching]

So? seriously have you ever been denied? I have, it's been a real PITA.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

Do you think your denial wouldn't have happened if the CEO was paid less? Keep searching, for your missing brain cells.

Here's a thought, stop falling for the "health insurance is healthcare" lie.

[Minadin]

NY Mag did an article explaining why some people are celebrating this assassination, and the comments section is completely filled with people doing the same: Blaming the insurance company for not covering their $12k ambulance ride, or their $10k / night hospital stay, and not the companies charging these crazy amounts.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/unitedhealthcare-ceo-shooting-celebrations.html

[TJJ2000]

^THIS.

And before all the "The state of medical treatment in this country is based off of the fallacious belief that there's an unlimited pool of money to pay for every little thing".....

Doctors use to come to your door for the price of a pizza.

The idiocy involved in thinking one can Gov-Gun 'armed-theft' a market endlessly without the effect of that market price-inflating is where all the problem comes from. That is where all the SELFISHNESS & GREED sits because Gun 'Demands' has no *EARNED* Supply-Side consideration what-so-ever.

If these CEO'S are doing absolutely nothing and getting rich....
It is EXACTLY because Gov-Guns are involved in 'armed-theft'.

[Anomalous]

Hillary would make it look like suicide.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

With a double tap to the back of the head.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

With both hands tied.

[Dillinger]

not an HRC without a plane crash too. ~~Ron Brown

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Senate report shows only 6% of federal workers go to workd daily. A third never go yo work.

Just know if Trump fires any it is revenge akin to a firing squad.

https://justthenews.com/government/congress/senate-report-unveils-only-six-percent-federal-employees-work-person

[Don't look at me!]

Imagine the damage they could do if the all went to work every day.

[Spiritus Mundi]

So many TPS reports!

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

I drove the Beltway pre-pandemic, I don’t need to imagine.

[Ra's al Gore]

Govt unions and Biden admin officials signed an agreement to let them WFH thru 2029 no matter what the voters think.

The basis of all D)emocracy is shielding govt officials from the stupid, racist, selfish voters.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Who cares what voters think, especially when they threaten democracy?

Speaker of voters, anyone who works for the fed should lose the right to vote.

[soldiermedic76]

Eh, I think the military (especially enlisted) should have the right to vote on who might send them off to die.

[soldiermedic76]

Some days I don't half wonder if Heinlein wasn't on to something about voting in a certain novel. *

*Note: before the usual suspects jump on this, I am not actually saying it's a good idea, just a comment on how many voters don't consider the repercussions of their votes.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

That’s why, in the “bad old days” and places like Rhodesia, voting was based on the amount of property owned. It was believed that if you owned a certain amount of property, you had bought into the system and therefore had a voice.

[TJJ2000]

1) should have the right to vote on who might send them off to die (Defense is Constitutional)
2) anyone who works for the fed should lose the right to vote (UN-Constitutional feds)

I'd just like to point out the difference there..
Aggressive Gov-Gun use ('armed-theft pay') versus Defensive.

USA government corruption sits right there. If your government is making plans that don't ensure Individual Liberty and Justice for all then chances are it is making 'criminal' plans meant to take Liberty and Justice away.

[mamabug]

As an IT worker who has been full-time WFH since before Covid - an awful lot of modern jobs can be done without going into the office and measuring an individual's productivity purely by the number of hours they are at a specific physical location is rather stupid.

My concerns in this are more about general government inefficiency and lack of tying pay/promotion to performance overall. OTOH, why should the public maintain the expense of buildings and associated utilities if we can get the exact same lack of performance?

[Homer Thompson]

https://nypost.com/2024/12/05/us-news/only-6-of-federal-workers-show-up-in-person-on-a-full-time-basis-scathing-senate-report-reveals/

so infuriating

[Idaho-Bob]

Only 6% are "needed". Dump the rest.

[Homer Thompson]

if you exclude security it drops to 1%

[Longtobefree]

Latest Trump policy announcement:
All paychecks will now be handed out in person, at the office.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

^ +1
One place I worked, they had a policy of once every 6 months (?), that would be the case, and you had to sign for the check.
Turns out some division accountants has 'invented' workers and had been pocketing the money for quite a while.

[Ikeepsearching]

This report says different? who's correct? Ernst? LOL.

https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2024/08/teleworking-feds-are-spending-60-their-time-working-person-omb-says/398779/

[Ra's al Gore]

Texas Official Overseeing 2.5 Million Voters Goes Missing
https://www.newsweek.com/texas-official-overseeing-2-5-million-voters-goes-missing-1972966

An elected official in charge of voter registration and tax collection in Texas hasn't swiped into her office for around four years according to an investigation by The Houston Chronicle.

Tax Assessor-Collector Ann Harris Bennett, who is responsible for the records of over 2.5 million voters, last accessed her office building in late 2020 according to county records that were seen by the newspaper. The Democrat, who assumed office in 2017 and is not seeking re-election in November, has oversight over voter registrations in Harris County, the most populous in Texas, which includes the city of Houston.

County records also show Bennett has only sent 18 emails from her work account so far this year, excluding approving staff absence requests, some of which were simply forwarding on other messages.

The revelation comes just weeks before the bitterly contested 2024 presidential election, with polling aggregation site FiveThirtyEight analysis showing Democrat Kamala Harris ahead of Republican Donald Trump by 1.9 percentage points on a nationwide basis. Election integrity is a major concern during the presidential race, following the 2020 contest which Trump claimed was rigged against him, though this allegation was repeatedly rejected in court and by independent election observers.

[Ra's al Gore]

Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo Announces Leave of Absence for Out-Of-State Depression Treatment
By Holly Hansen Aug 7, 2023
https://thetexan.news/texas-local-news/harris-county-judge-lina-hidalgo-announces-leave-of-absence-for-out-of-state-depression-treatment/article_ef8f0a5f-e138-57d4-b03a-edfd92705175.html
Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo announced Monday she had checked herself into an inpatient facility for mental health treatment in another state and will be taking a leave of absence from the duties of her elected office.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Now you know where Bennett is.

[Don't look at me!]

Nice work if you can get it.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Not at all surprised that bitch was employed by Harris County. Forget lawsuits, getting a government position where you don't even need to do any work is the real ghetto lottery.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

This is awkward for jeffmike. Pro tran surgery on kids ACLU lawyer forced to admit at the USSC that surgery and drugs don't actually improve suicide risk.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/supreme-court/3250557/tennessee-attorney-general-claims-victory-in-admission-of-aclu-lawyer-in-trans-case/

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

It actually makes the suicide risk worse, but they don't actually care about that.

[damikesc]

That this is not common sense is baffling.

Cutting off your body parts is not going to make your life better. And once you realize that and you CANNOT GO BACK, then ending it becomes more of an option.

[Ra's al Gore]

They're saying kids as young as 2 know they're 'trans'.

[Ra's al Gore]

“To have a transgender child has made me so much more interesting” Annette Bening, channeling the worst of Hollywood, speaks outside SCOTUS during the Skrmetti hearing.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

[Idaho-Bob]

Transhausen syndrome by proxy - Stolen from Gays against Groomers.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Worked in health care most of my life; that is the most horrific diagnosis I ever encountered. Beyond sick and truly evil.

[Use the Schwartz]

“To have a transgender child has made me so much more interesting” Annette Bening

*makes skeptical uhmm*

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Yeah, no.

[Medulla Oblongata]

“I think the greatest gift of my life is to have kids and to have a transgender child has made me so much more interesting. So much more wise,” she claimed.

“And for the Supreme Court justices, I encourage them to talk to their kids. Their grandkids. Their nieces and nephews. Because I’ll bet if they really sit down and ask them, ‘Do you know trans kids around you? Do you have any non-binary friends?’ They’re going to say yes. And they’re going to say that this is part of the beautiful rainbow of human beings everywhere,” she added.

[soldiermedic76]

Like I pointed out yesterday, the average 2 to has a vocabulary of 100-200 words and is able to speak in two to three words sentences. If I were one of the justices, I would have asked how a 2 yo, with such a limited vocabulary how properly, without doubt, convey such an abstract thought as they are in the wrong body?

[Medulla Oblongata]

But...but...it makes them THINK about suicide less!

[Quo Usque Tandem]

I believe that was literally he/she/it's argument [the lawyer for ACLU; such as it is].

[Minadin]

[S]he also tried to argue that gender-fluidity was an immutable trait that anyone can change on a whim.

Alito wasn't buying it.

https://twitter.com/robbystarbuck/status/1864355757262610621

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Both alito and Thomas have been excellent during questioning.

Thomas got the lawyer to admit the drugs he was saying were being withheld by sex would only benefit the gender seeking to change genders, so it was the ACLU side requesting differentiation based on sex. Basically turning the attempt by thr ACLU lawyer to use bostock against him.

[mad.casual]

Again, this is the fatal flaw of Bostock.

You can (argue and) rule for or against "The following statement is true. [True/untrue statement]." You can rule for or against "[True/untrue statement]. The previous statement is false." The statement "The following statement is true. The previous statement is false." cannot be definitively ruled one way or the other and should be tossed aside*.

The problem is, this applies to sexual orientation as well. And I'm pretty sure that, even after November, the vast majority of the US, if not the world, is still too retarded* (intrinsically or exogenously) to understand.

*It should be noted that this tossing aside, definitively, doesn't change things for homosexuals one way or the other. If it was illegal to kill humans or fire people having sex outside of work before "Homosexuality is an innate trait regardless of what the following sentence says. The previous statement is wrong, homosexuality is a personal decision.", disregarding the two statements doesn't suddenly make it legal to kill humans or fire people for having sex outside of work. The issue is rather specifically the opposite, adopting the two statements as principled or axiomatic (intentionally, IMO) calls into question the axioms by which the others were created, e.g., is/can sex defined as a personal decision, at someone else's place of work?

[Stupid Government Tricks]

My standard rant...

It used to be dogma that —

* Homosexuality was genetic and unchangeable. This was why gay conversion therapy was banned, even when voluntary.

* Female genital mutilation was about the worst crime possible.

* Chemical castration was immoral, even when voluntarily requested by convicted rapists and pedophiles. It was also unhealthy.

* Children by definition were not adults and not allowed to decide they wanted to smoke tobacco, drink alcohol, or imbibe other drugs.

* Title IX was necessary to provide as many women's sports leagues as men had.

Now it’s dogma that gender is so fluid that pre-school kids must be believed when their teachers brainwash them into thinking their gender has changed, chemical castration is good AND safe when relabeled as puberty blockers, child gender mutilation is not just good but so mandatory that parents can be charged with child abuse for trying to block it, and third-rate male athletes can identify as women and beat everyone else in women's sports.

[Minadin]

Most people, even most 'trans the kids!' supporters, don't realize that the drugs they are giving these kids to 'block puberty' are the same exact ones used to 'chemically castrate' convicted child rapists.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

And they don't believe it when you tell them.

[soldiermedic76]

There's also a huge overlap between those who will use puberty blockers on their kids but only buy organic meat to avoid 'hormones' in their meat. They don't like it when you point out that these are the same hormones they use as performance implants in beef, and at far lower dosages than in those puberty blockers and the meds you have to take even after you castrate yourself. If you see a tranny only eating 'organic meat' because they're afraid of the hormones, they need a hard slap against the back of their heads.*

The difference between organic beef and conventional with estrogen implants (the most common implant used, to help fat deposition and improve feed intake) is about 3 nG/kG (both are below 10 nG/kG).

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

child gender mutilation is not just good but so mandatory that parents can be charged with child abuse for trying to block it,

Hell, California even allows non-biological parents to kidnap children and bring them to the state to get Mengele'd if the biological parent objects.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

It used to be that humans believed there were only four elements that made up the universe. We now know better than that.

Here, let me help you navigate this complex and confusing issue.

Sex: determined by biology. 99% of the time, it corresponds to the expression of the XX or XY chromosome resulting in traditional male or female biological traits.

Gender: determined by society. It is considered social convention that to formal events, men wear suits and women wear gowns or dresses. There is no biological imperative for these things, they are social conventions only.

Gender Identity: refers to a person's conception of one's own sense of gender. This is based on a person's own subjective feelings and attitudes.

So it is entirely possible for a person to have a sex of female, conform to male gender roles, and have a gender identity of bisexual.

The intersection between biology, sociology and psychology is so much more complicated than what we learned in 5th grade.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The intersection between biology, sociology and psychology

LOL, and with that, everything chemtard claims can be summarily dismissed.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Jeffsarc: the MAID of the Reason commentariat.

"Here, let me help you navigate this complex and confusing issue."

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Here, let me help you.

John Money, the sexologist and horrifically abusive pedophile who decided to redefine the meaning of the word 'gender' the 1960's did so to fulfill his own fetishes which he tried to legitimize as "research".
His redefinition has never been accepted by the public and until the 2000s was not accepted by the general academic community.

Most men who identify as 'transgender' are indulging in a particular fetish known as Autogynephilia. They get aroused by believing they are attractive women. When you deny that they are outraged because it disrupts their fantasy. This is the primary motive force behind 'trans identity'.

Most teens who "identify" as trans are confused gay kids being gaslit by pederasts and Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy moms and teachers.

Most children who "identify" as trans don't, and are being abused.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Gender as a concept exists regardless of what John Money or anyone else might have thought about it. There is a difference between biology and sociology when it comes to sex and gender roles. Biologically, if a person has the XY chromosome, then about 99% of the time, that person will develop into a male. Sociologically, a person may choose to conform to gender roles associated with men or women regardless of their biology. There is no biological imperative that those with XY chromosomes must wear pants instead of dresses. This remains true no matter how much of a scumbag John Money was.

I find it completely amusing that you, the supposed populist champion here, are so much in favor of society imposing its will onto individuals when it comes to gender roles and gender identity. You apparently want to return power to individuals so that they don't have to live under the rule of elites, but you don't want those individuals to have the power to decide for themselves how to live their own lives according to their own sense of gender identity.

"I want you to be free from oppressive government, where society instead will oppress you into narrow gender roles".

I am not interested in trying to read people's minds to try to figure out why they think they have the gender identity they claim to have. Maybe they have gender dysphoria, maybe they have autogynephilia, maybe they are completely mentally healthy and just want to say 'fuck you' to the entire rest of the world and choose to be different than everyone else. I accept people for who they are, unlike you, who wants to force people into the mold that you think they shoudl conform to.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

I can’t wait for the SCOTUS ruling to watch you cry enough to flood a small valley.

[Uilleam]

Fuck off pedo.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Jeff demands his faulty beliefs exist because he believes they exist. He can point to zero objective evidence for his beliefs. His beliefs validate the existence of his believes.

Utter post modernist bullshit latched onto by really dumb people who want to be perceived as intelligent. The problem is they only seem intelligent to other post modernists. Everyone actually intelligent just sees clowns.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

This exactly

[Don’t. Get. Eliminated. (formerly R Mac)]

Lying Jeffy just wants to justify fucking kids.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

"Gender as a concept exists regardless of what John Money or anyone else might have thought about it.

'Gender' came via Old French and 'Sex' from Latin and meant exactly the same thing until your pedophile sexologist decided to add new meaning that still is not broadly accepted.

Language games and assigning new meanings are the only tool you have to advance your depraved agendas.

"I find it completely amusing that you, the supposed populist champion here, are so much in favor of society imposing its will onto individuals when it comes to gender roles and gender identity."

You have that exactly backwards, and I'm sure you've done it on purpose. You are the ones imposing new word definitions on society, not the other way around.

You're not known as Lying Jeffy for nothing.

[sarcasmic]

I see you have no friends or family with children who are dealing with this. Because that will change your perspective real quick.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Of course not. Because Rule 1 of Narcissistic Asshole Libertarianism asserts that no one else in the universe matters.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

That rule applies to you so perfectly it isn’t even funny.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Ahh. The last argument of your standard post modernist. If you won't argue and appeal to the post modernist emotions, you're an asshole.

Again. You're a clown.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Do you assume that any parent who has a kid with serious gender dysphoria automatically agrees to surgery? And do you see that as the only (and kindest) option?

[sarcasmic]

No and no.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

No they won't.

This is just admitting you default to appeals to emotion instead of rational argumentation.

And like most of your stories, bet you've never dealt with it lol. Just rushing in to defend your hero Jeff.

[sarcasmic]

Yes I know you're a sociopath. You don't need to remind me.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Narrator: self awareness was never Sarcasmic’s strong suit.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

This old Simpsons clip reminds me of 90% of Sarcasmic's posts.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

ML bailed it. Self delusion is his and Homer's super power.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Lol. Nailed it. You made shit up to defend your boo.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I see you have no friends or family with children who are dealing with this. Because that will change your perspective real quick.

No, it really wouldn't. Because I'm under no obligation to play along with their politically correct queer cult indoctrination just because they're family or we've known each other for decades, any more than I'd be obligated to indulge them if they were trying to recruit me to join Scientology.

[sarcasmic]

Nobody said you're under any obligation to do anything. My point is that when someone you care about is struggling with something serious like this, it's not so easy to just dismiss it because you hate people who don't share your political views.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

My point is that when someone you care about is struggling with something serious like this, it's not as easy to just dismiss it because you hate people who don't share your political views.

What do you mean "it's not as easy"? That the denial of reality that's demanded on my part is more likely because it's coming from someone I know rather than the queer cult at large, or Internet-famous spastics like Charles Clymer, Tony Reed, or Al Caraballo?

[sarcasmic]

The reality here is that this is a very real struggle for many kids, to the point where it drives some to take their own lives. When that kid that's struggling is someone you care about, or the child of someone you care about, then I would think you could set your politics aside and behave like a human being. Or I could be wrong.

[Marshal]

then I would think you could set your politics aside and behave like a human being.

Love this: agreeing with sarc's approach is now defined as "behave like a human". What a tool.

Or...we go back to telling kids when they deal with teenage angst that liking dancing and art instead of sports doesn't mean you're not a boy just as liking hiking instead of dolls and makeup doesn't mean you're not a girl.

But of course the "tolerant left" says if you think anything different than them you're putting politics before kids. In reality they're prioritizing permanently mutilating kids over compassion because it enables them calling people names and (they hope) win elections. What worthless sacks of shit.

That's reality.

[sarcasmic]

Or...we go back to telling kids when they deal with teenage angst that liking dancing and art instead of sports doesn't mean you're not a boy just as liking hiking instead of dolls and makeup doesn't mean you're not a girl.

Sure you can, old man. And when that kills themselves, then what? Pat the parents on the back and tell them that the world is a better place because their kid was a worthless leftist? Tell the parents it was their fault because they're worthless leftists? I can see you doing that.

In reality they're prioritizing permanently mutilating kids over compassion because it enables them calling people names and (they hope) win elections.

In reality you're taking a rare and extreme case, portraying it as if it's the norm (also known as lying) in order to demonize people you hate because of their politics, then prioritizing that political hatred over basic humanity.

What a worthless sack of shit you are.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Sarc, have you ever tried just being an actual parent instead of giving into your kids whims?

Another post modernist argument as well. If you don't agree with transgenderism in kids you're not human.

Try an actual intelligent argument buddy.

Have dealt with many family members with drug issues. We dont coddle them. That doesn't work. Sometimes you have to actually provide a reality check.

And then he goes right to the leftist emotional argument for suicide despite the actual comment thread showing the ACLU lawyer admitted it doesn't change suicide rates lol.

Fucking clown.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Have dealt with many family members with drug issues. We dont coddle them. That doesn't work.

Tell us Jesse, does shaming family members into drug rehab, does that work? If you have a family member who is struggling with addiction, and you sincerely love that family member and want to see that person get help for his/her addiction, does it work to yell at that person, call him/her a worthless sack of shit, tell him/her that he/she's a moral degenerate who lacks integrity and is a terrible person and why do you even bother breathing air if all you are going to do is stick a needle in your arm? Does that type of talk work? I would be very surprised if that type of talk works.

No, coddling tends not to work. And if you want to try the "tough love" approach that's fine, but the "tough love" approach requires BOTH the "tough" AND the "love". All I see here is a lot of "tough" and not very much "love".

[chemjeff radical individualist]

In reality they're prioritizing permanently mutilating kids over compassion because it enables them calling people names and (they hope) win elections.

And this sentence right here is why you are a worthless piece of shit. The parents who seek gender affirming care for their kids, they love their kids too and they are trying to find relief for their kids' suffering and trying to do what's best for them. Go right ahead and criticize their choices, that's fine, but you go even further than that and claim that these parents DON'T actually give a shit about their kids and are feeding their kids castration drugs purely for the sake of a political ideology. That is disgusting.

[sarcasmic]

All I see here is a lot of "tough" and not very much "love".

All I see is hatred and contempt. Because, unless you worship Trump as your political Jesus, that's all he's got.

[Marshal]

The parents who seek gender affirming care for their kids, they love their kids too and they are trying to find relief for their kids' suffering and trying to do what's best for them.

That's right. And political activists are preying on them because they know once that step is taken they are reliably left votes forever.

Johns Hopkins was a pioneer in this treatment and gave up surgeries decades ago upon realizing the the surgeries made their patients' depression worse rather than better. But as this became a political issue activists drove the true experts out of the field by calling them transphobes and blackballing them. Jesse Singal had quite the expose on this several years ago.

you go even further than that and claim that these parents DON'T actually give a shit about their kids and are feeding their kids castration drugs purely for the sake of a political ideology. That is disgusting.

Again we see how the jeffsarcs lie, and they do so because the truth doesn't support their conclusions. The truth is these fools don't know anything about anything, except whatever DNC talking point was published last week. They pretend a criticism of the industry is a criticism of parents because that lie helps them avoid the truth. That's the kind of people they are.

[Marshal]

Sure you can, old man. And when that kills themselves, then what? Pat the parents on the back and tell them that the world is a better place because their kid was a worthless leftist?

If you knew anything beside DNC talking points you'd know surgeries do not reduce suicide incidence. But it explains so much that your political preferences are based on your believing things that just aren't true.

Want to try again?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

And continued appeals to emotion absent any logical argument from jeffsarc. Just attacks on their opponents morality.

Encouraging a family member to harm themselves is not love.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The reality here is that this is a very real struggle for many kids

No, it's not. It's a social contagion that seeks to indoctrinate kids into marxist activism via self-mortification, primarily by exploiting them when they're in the throes of puberty or munchie-by-proxy parents treating them like a purse pet for social clout.

You may want to look up the lawsuit being brought against Johanna Kennedy-Olsen by Clementine Breen sometime--the same quack who ended up suppressing the results of her own study on depression rates in trans kids when it didn't fit her preconceived claims, and heavily promoted putting kids on puberty blockers and having them undergo radical reconstructive surgeries, which we know for a fact fucks up their physiology when it's used to trans them.

There's absolutely nothing scientific about this whatsoever. It's all in service to a radical left theological movement that thinks anyone telling them "no" is oppressive.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

If you knew anything beside DNC talking points you'd know surgeries do not reduce suicide incidence. But it explains so much that your political preferences are based on your believing things that just aren't true.

Did you note the emotional manipulation he employed there, which happens to be the same type used by activist quacks that present parents with a false dilemma that they can have a "live daughter or a dead son."

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

All I see here is a lot of "tough" and not very much "love".

Like all leftists, you equate indulgence with love. It's not love to encourage an alcoholic to drink more, and it's not love to encourage children to believe they're "born in the wrong body".

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Appeal to emotion. No actual experience.

Parenting is hard for some though. Why CPS gets called on some.

[soldiermedic76]

He's obviously never been to one of my families Christmas or Thanksgiving dinners (or played pinochle with us. There's a lot you can say about Scandinavians but keeping our opinions to ourselves, and changing our opinions easily, are not two of them. Hell, I think we argue sometimes just for the fun of it.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Yes, because I hang around Normies and avoid the mentally ill

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Except, chemtard, that’s not grade 5 biology, that’s masters and phd level biology. You do realize that organ transplants and even blood donation depends on the sex of the individual involved? You can’t just put an XY organ in an XX individual as the XX individual has a very high likelihood of rejecting the organ due to the foreign Y chromosome. That Y chromosome is in everything male from saliva to blood. The only male thing it isn’t in is some of the small gamates.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hey, Jeff, see if you can answer this question: Is there a type or level of identity dysphoria that is actually insane?

[sarcasmic]

Do you believe it was wrong to stop treating homosexuals as criminally insane deviants?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Depends, did they undergo chemical castration as minors to prevent perfectly normal physiological development, and convince people that they were "born in the wrong body" and needed to cut their otherwise genitals and breasts off to be their "authentic selves"?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Standard leftist retreat lol.

If you understand biology you hate gays!

Why do they call you a leftist. Huh.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Can you imagine that rational people can accept homosexuality but not gender change?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

One is a choice. And the other is... a choice?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I don't know, and on a practical level, it doesn't really matter, because I do not favor government-mandated involuntary institutionalization of mentally ill unless they are actually violent and cannot take care of themselves.

So if a person whom you would describe as 'insane' is not actually violent due to mental illness, then that person should be entitled to live his/her life as he/she wishes. If that person is actually mentally ill and seeks treatment, then that's fine. If that person isn't actually mentally ill, then that's fine too. If that person is actually mentally ill and chooses not to seek treatment, I might advocate that the person go seek treatment, but if that person doesn't, again I don't think the state should coerce that person into getting treatment.

And sure, if someone claims that they identify as a dog, or a tree, or some other stupid example that you might make up, then fine, let the person do that, and we all retain our freedom to respond how we wish to.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

OK, try this made-up example. What if a kid identifies as a multiple amputee? Does society need to prevent an accommodating parent from approving limb-reassignment surgery?

My point: if you admit that there is an absurd level of mental delusion then we can have an adult conversation about where the line is, and when kids need to be protected from others--and even when adults need to be protected from themselves.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

This question has been asked to him, Mike, and sarc dozens of times. Same with if we should staple the stomachs of anorexic. Or demand people pretend they can see the people schizos can.

They will never answer.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

What if your kid identifies as Superman? Do you push him off a roof? Does the state throw you in jail if you talk him down instead of push him off?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

They might commit suicide if you don't encourage then to jump off that cliff.

What's funny is suicide rates go up with medical Trans surgery or drugs.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Well of course there are 'absurd' levels of 'mental delusions', that is called mental illness. And if the kid is suffering from an authentically diagnosed mental illness, then that kid ought to receive treatment according to a rigorous and professional standard of care. But these types of decisions on whether or not to seek care should be made by parents in consultation with the medical professionals of their choice.

But in all of these discussions, as libertarians we ought to start with the assumption that parents love their kids and want to be proper stewards of their kids' well-being. Obviously this assumption is not true 100% of the time, but it is probably true 98+% of the time and so if there is any libertarian justification for any state action, we should make sure that it really only affects the very small minority of parents who are messed up and don't do what is best for their kids, rather than affecting the vast majority of parents who do. Agreed?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Sure, most parents want the best for their kids. And some, even perhaps most, parents make some effort to figure out what that is, and make some effort to achieve it.

But society dominates definitions of normality, while extreme progressives compulsively challenge the status quo. And they prey on public opinion, including fringe issues, to achieve other goals. IMO the entire gender dysphoria issue has been deliberately amped up for political reasons, and has made victims of people who have at least borderline mental illness. And I have seen nothing to convince me that accommodating dreams of gender change serves these people any better than helping them learn to live the way they are.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

The assumption in Hollywood and the Upper East Side should be that having a Trans kid is a status symbol and that the kid has. Been conditioned into it

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Personally, as sarcasmic alludes to, I see the current campaign to label transgender people as "mentally ill" analogous to the previous campaign to label homosexuals as "mentally ill". It's not just wrong, but it gives the state undue authority to oppress people just for being different.

[sarcasmic]

It's not just wrong, but it gives the state undue authority to oppress people just for being different.

It also makes it ok to beat them up, which is really appealing to certain people.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Who said it was ok to beat anyone up, Sarc? Instead, you, as usual, have it backwards. There’ve been a number of MtFs who have committed very violent acts against women.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

I can start posting all of sarcs threats to people he hates or his defending arrests and murders of his enemy.

It's projection.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Like all the dudes in women’s prisons raping women

[Idaho-Bob]

If mentally ill men stay out of women's-only spaces, they have nothing to worry about. Follow my daughter into a bathroom, and a beating is the least of their worries.

[Uilleam]

You mean like the guys harming girls in female only sports? Or how about the assaults on girls by 'trans' dudes in schools? You're such a lying asshole.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Fuck off Sarc. I don't want to live in your world where there is no "mental illness".

[sarcasmic]

And I don't want to live in your world where gay-bashing is something to brag about.

[Don’t. Get. Eliminated. (formerly R Mac)]

You try so hard to make being gay a topic of conversation here. Very weird.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Lol. Man what a great bookmark this turned out to be.

[sarcasmic]

What a pathetic life you have when bookmarking comments to use in online arguments gets you excited.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Shut the fuck up, Sarc-y.

[soldiermedic76]

Wait, what? We were discussing transgender treatment for kids. So are you admitting that trannies are just gay men dressed as women and not actually women? Because that's what that sentence implies.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

What a pathetic loser you are to turn being for science showing harms from transgender surgeries and drugs as wanting to beat up gay people.

Lol.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Piss-poor attempt to conflate my position with your straw man.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Transgenderism amounts to an actual genocide against gay people

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

And then sarc goes even further into the leftist bullshit.

You know what? Bookmarked for next time you yell honest discourse.

All appeals to emotion and character assassination from you two since you can't form an actual intelligent argument.

[Spiritus Mundi]

You are all for state authority pushing your beliefs. If someone doesn't get a vax or wear a mask you think it is ok for that person to be fired, denied healthcare, and access to public places. No different than the state taking your kids if you refuse to cut off their junk because they have been brain washed by pedos they are trans.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You are all for state authority pushing your beliefs.

No, that is your team.

If someone doesn't get a vax or wear a mask you think it is ok for that person to be fired, denied healthcare, and access to public places.

If someone doesn't get a vax or wear a mask, I think it should be up to private property owners to decide whether or not they wish to associate with that person.

No different than the state taking your kids

Yeah it is different, because I don't advocate for using state power to coerce people like you do here.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

That’s one thing you excel at, Jeffy, projection. The entire comment you have above is a textbook, dictionary definition example of projection.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Utter leftist bullshit to avoid actual arguments.

[Zeb]

Gender isn't determined by society. Typical, socially acceptable ways to express gender are determined by society. It's an important distinction.

[mamabug]

The switch from 'Gender Roles' to 'Gender' is one of the most insidious parts of the whole 'motte and baily' arguments put forth by the trans camp.

Another is that the shift from trans as referring to those who feel they are 'born in the wrong body' to just those who don't want to comply with the expected norms of their sex.

This understanding shocked me when my son explained it, but apparently that is what Gen Z has been programmed to believe. Per him, the 'trans' movement is about getting rid of gender as a construct altogether. I asked how his argument was any different from the 80's feminist argument that people's dress and occupation should not be proscribed based on sex - he couldn't answer.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Look at Jeff try to mix objective science with 2 different subjective pseudo sciences.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""Gender: determined by society. It is considered social convention that to formal events, men wear suits and women wear gowns or dresses. There is no biological imperative for these things, they are social conventions only.

Gender Identity: refers to a person's conception of one's own sense of gender. This is based on a person's own subjective feelings and attitudes.""

Not science. While I have no issue with people identifying, I do have an issue when they claim science backs them up. "Sex" would be science, but that's what they are pushing back on.
The biology of you supersedes your opinion of you when we talk about reality.

[damikesc]

"Gender: determined by society. It is considered social convention that to formal events, men wear suits and women wear gowns or dresses. There is no biological imperative for these things, they are social conventions only."

Gender is a term for language only. Trying to use if for other things is irrational. Gender does not exist outside of language (i.e Spanish has gendered words)

[Zeb]

Also electrical connectors.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Most of the 41 percent happens in moments of clarity when the person finally admits that all the surgeries and hormones on the planet doesn't make you the opposite sex, and it certainly doesn't make you into an UWU True and Honest ________, but they aren't willing to accept that reality and drop the self-loathing.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hmm, I wonder if self-loathing is a necessary part of some ideologies, or just a regrettable mental condition.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Look folks. If you're born with a penis, why can't you just "act like a man", have sex with women, and conform to what society tells you that you ought to be? And if you disagree with what society is telling you, then there is something wrong with you and you need your head examined. It is all so simple, really!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Look folks. When someone says they're something, even if they aren't, why can't you just make them feel better and go along with the lie. Isn't indulging make-believe so much easier than reality?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

When someone says they're something, even if they aren't

Thank goodness we have RRWP here to decide everyone's gender identity for them.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

So do you identify as having a 32 inch waist, Jeffy?

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

LOL, I'm not deciding shit for them. I'm simply refusing to play along with their delusions and deny reality.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

You don't get freedoms in jeffs world if you disagree with him. Only if you agree with him voluntarily do you get your freedom.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Funny, the Maoists during the Cultural Revolution said the same thing to the people they were torturing and forcing to undergo struggle sessions.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Look folks. If you were born with a penis and want sex with someone else with a penis, go for it. But don't mandate (!) that little boys cut off their penis so you can pretend he is a girl and get your pedo rocks off.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No one here is in favor of government mandates for sex transitions. That is a complete strawman.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

So you think a trunk bear pops out and bites it off?

[Spiritus Mundi]

So if parents refuse to trans their kids, the government can't take them to make sure they get 'care'?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

In general I do not agree with the government having the power to take kids away from parents who choose different treatments for medical conditions other than the government-prescribed treatments.

[damikesc]

Do you support gay conversion therapy?

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

You have literally argued FOR laws that allow teachers to transition kids without notice to parents.

Fuck off shit weasel.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

No, what I have argued for is that parents, kids and teachers and/or school counselors should all discuss the issue together in a supportive environment. I do not agree with teachers abusing students' trust in them and 'outing' kids to their parents in the absence of this supportive environment. I recognize that there are many parents out there who are fairly intolerant of LGBTQ issues and would react poorly if they thought their kid was gay, and so the issue should be broached with care and sensitivity.

[damikesc]

Why would the schools/teachers have a seat at the table?

They have nothing to say about it. When the kid's life is fucked because of the school, those counselors and teachers will not be on the hook. The parents ALONE will be.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

A. Teacher brainwashes student into confusing his gender.

B. State makes it illegal for the teacher to tell the parents.

C. State makes it illegal for the parents to prevent the kid from demanding gender mutilation surgery and chemical castration.

D. Jeffsarc says there's no state coercion.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

So indulge their fantasy rather than let them face reality. Do you identify as skinny, Jeffy, with a 32 inch waist? That’s what we call a fantasy.

[Zeb]

If you are born with a penis, you are a male, so anything you do is acting like a man. This is the tolerant liberal take. And I think that's the way to look at things. You are what you are. If you want or feel a need to express yourself in non-typical ways, go for it as long as you aren't hurting anyone else. It doesn't change basic reality. A man is an adult human male.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

If you are born with a penis, you are a male, so anything you do is acting like a man.

Really? So is this "acting like a man"?

https://xsmultimedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rupauls-drag-race.jpeg

Sure, one could claim that anything a biological male does is "acting like a man" but that is a tautology. When I am referring to 'acting like a man', it is more about acting according to the social conventions associated with biological males. Such as, wearing pants and ties.

[Zeb]

Yes, I get your point. And I was a bit flippant. Of course there are behaviors that are considered masculine or feminine.
My point is that being a masculine woman or feminine man doesn't change the underlying condition of being a man or a woman.
I do reject the notion that sex and gender are distinct. They are not one and the same in the sense you are talking about, but they are inextricably related.
"The exception that proves the rule" is an often misunderstood saying. But here is a correct application: the fact that some men or women want to adopt the typical behaviors of the other sex is an exception that proves the rule of men overall being masculine and women being feminine.
Gender is masculine or feminine. Sex is male or female. Gender activists want to blur this and demand that acting feminine means you are a woman. That's where they lose me completely.

[mamabug]

IMO, flippant is the only way to respond to the nonsense being spewed by this ideology.

Funny how those on the 'pro' side always fall back on stereotypes to define 'man' or 'woman'. The major difference between their understanding and the classic liberal one you articulated is that the later doesn't come with a price tag.

[damikesc]

It's as much "behaving like a woman" as Amos n Andy was a cute approximation of black life.

[Zeb]

And RuPaul (unless he's changed lately) never claimed to be a woman, but a female impersonator. Drag was a lot less offensive when it was just some goofy entertainment thing that some (mostly) gay guys did.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

This is year 4 of Jeff claiming behaviors are not defined by sex. But in the 2nd half of the argument defines behaviors as proving gender confusion.

4 years and too stupid to understand the contradiction of his argument.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

How YOU choose to behave is not dictated by biology. It is your CHOICE. It is called free will.

Society at large chooses to label certain behaviors as associated with men, or associated with women. Wearing pants and ties? Associated with men. Wearing skirts and dresses? Associated with women.

There is no biological imperative for a biological male to wear pants. If that biological male chooses to wear skirts and dresses, that person would be making a free choice to express a gender associated with women.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

[Zeb]

How YOU choose to behave is not dictated by biology. It is your CHOICE. It is called free will.

Sounds like a good argument for gender expression not being special or inherent to anyone's identity or requiring any special legal protections.

Sex, on the other hand is dictated by our biology.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Jeff still won't understand. It is hilarious to me.

[damikesc]

Jeff, do YOU believe that a man can become a woman because he really, really wants it to be the case?

Yes or no answer.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I believe any human being has the free will to choose to follow whatever social conventions that person wishes to, whether or not they are associated with men or associated with women. The social conventions that a person chooses to follow (gender) is not the same as the person's biological makeup (sex).

A biological male will always be a biological male, but that biological male may, for all intents and purposes, present him/herself as a woman for the rest of society. That is just as valid of a choice as if that same person chose to present himself as a traditional male.

[Zeb]

Yes, of course. Just don't expect everyone else to play along when he still looks like a dude in a dress.

[damikesc]

Is society OBLIGATED to humor their views?

I ask because in some situations, you will deal with "hate crime" accusations if you do not, in fact, humor their views.

[Don't look at me!]

Why are we still using the word “czar” ?

[Randy Sax]

It's a fun word.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

Because the T-S-A-R spelling looks pretentious.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

And unpronounceable by many.

[Dillinger]

adds a whole extra syllable.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

But tsar bulba was a great story! As is most of gogals writings

[A Thinking Mind]

Czar, a linguistic mutation of “Caesar,” is a relic from the Roman Empire. It came to be synonymous with Emperor. Even after the fall of Rome, the legacy of the Roman Empire was seen as legitimizing, which is why many rulers claimed their authority was derived from being the true ruler of Rome. This we get the Holy Roman Empire, with its own Caesar, later germanicized as Kaiser. And because the Russian Empire saw itself as the defender of Orthodox Christianity, the legacy of Rome, they also had their Caesars, which linguistically became Czars.

And this is why kings and Emperors had to be crowned by the Pope, as well. The Pope was in many ways the standard bearer of Roman authority as a legacy of Roman imperial power. It’s not just an appeal to Divine Right, but it appealed to traditionalism to cling to a remnant of the ruling authority for so long.

[Randy Sax]

After playing New Vegas, I can only read "Caesar" in the Latin pronunciation "Kai-Sar". You can more easily see the adaptation to Kaiser that way as well.

[A Thinking Mind]

The shifting "c" of Latin is interesting. In certain parts of Italy you get the "ch-" sound out of "c," while I'm told that Sardinia largely kept to the original Latin with the hard "c."

There are some words from Latin I pronounce either way, even though the soft "c" feels more familiar on words like Caesar. But I can't, for the life of me, imagine the most well-spoken orator of the Roman Republic having a name pronounced "Kickero."

[Randy Sax]

The one that gets me more is the "V" to "W". "Veni, vidi, Vici" was probably more pronounced like "weenie, wedi, wiki".

[Quo Usque Tandem]

"I came, I sawed, I chancered?" [Robert Crum, "Snatch Sampler"]

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

I kind of prefer,

“We came, we saw, we kicked its ass!”
- Dr. Peter Venkman

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

More like “kee-keh-ro”, but they would called him Marcus Tullius most often.

[Ska]

In Italian grammar and phonics, ci- or ce- is pronounced "chee" and "chay." Co-, ca-, and cu- are hard c/"k" sounds. Inserting an "h" before "e" or "i" signifies a hard c again, e.g. chiave (Italian for the word "key"). I don't know if Sardinia's dialects really deviate from that, but now I have something to check out next time I'm bored.

"Ave, true to (K)aesar" (to tie it back to Randy Sax's awesome reference). I wonder how the Romans really did pronounce it, and if Cae- in Latin was part of the basis of the modern rules during its morphing into vulgar Italian. I can't think of any modern Italian words with the Cae- letter cluster, but my vocabulary isn't all that great.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Any idea how "Caesar" was pronounced in his lifetime?

[A Thinking Mind]

Nobody can be 100% certain, but I think most linguists favor "kay-ser," so the Germanized Kaiser is closer than the modern Italian or Anglicized pronunciation. But it's more of a long A sound than the vowel from Kaiser.

[Ska]

That does make sense to me. If you handed someone a modern Italian text with that spelling I'd expect something that sounds like Kay or Kai, or something in between. The C would be hard with the vowel "a" following it.

[soldiermedic76]

Kaiser has the long I sound because of the Germanic diphthong, in which the two vowel combination is pronounced as the long vowel sound of the second vowel. For example, my Great Grandma maiden name was Peilert, pronounced as PIE-lert (which is why it was anglicized to Pilert when her dad immigrated to the US).

On the use of the word Kaiser, both Imperial Germany and AustroHungary used this title. Bulgaria also used the term Czar for it's king (though Czar and Kaiser are more appropriate for an emporer than a king).

[A Thinking Mind]

The term Cæsar was prolific in spreading. It wasn’t just adopted by Russia, it also became Kaysar in Persian, a word for emperor, and then passed over to India as Kaisar. So eventually Queen Victoria of Britain becomes Empress of India, and she was titled “Kaisar-i-Hindi.” This continued until India broke free from British rule in the 20th century.

[Ajsloss]

Pizza pizza?

[Stupid Government Tricks]

OK, wise guy, how did the Romans pronounce "pizza", huh?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

And where did they get the tomato sauce?

[Dillinger]

buried Etruscan recipes.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Cultural appropriation.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Ah yes, the empire founded by the great Mike Illitch Augustus.

[Dillinger]

>>Pizza pizza?

lolz. irl lolz nice timing.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

Vegetable

[mad.casual]

"Crypto Fiat" makes the layers of nuanced, oxymoronic, narrative insanity too obvious.

[Super Scary]

It's bizczar how we keep using it.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sacks "will focus on making America the clear global leader" in artificial intelligence...

Skynet was always going to be a red-blooded American.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

@MarkGoldfeder
.
@amnesty
international literally redefined the legal term of genocide to suit their accusation, stripping the term of its actual meaning in the process. The craziest part? They admit this in their report, correctly assuming that most people won't read all the way to p. 101:

Thread

https://x.com/MarkGoldfeder/status/1864494075220509115

[Moonrocks]

How else would we raise awareness of the Trans Genocide?

[Medulla Oblongata]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/12/05/the-genocide-lie/

‘Genocide’ is a wildly overused term in the 21st century. Various wars are rebranded as genocides. We hear insane talk of a ‘trans genocide’, which is basically when you fail to use a person’s preferred pronouns. Horrendously, even the mistreatment of animals can be called genocidal these days – who can forget when the moral void that is PETA described your meat dinner as ‘the Holocaust on your plate’?

the cunning stunts of Led By Donkeys have got hearts racing in posh coffee houses everywhere by accusing Israel of genocide. Yesterday, the beardy bros of this most grating of campaign groups took a break from berating the oiks for voting Brexit to berate Israel for fighting back against the army of anti-Semites that attacked it on 7 October. They rolled out a giant banner in Parliament Square saying: ‘YES IT’S A GENOCIDE.’ If I had their time, money and insatiable urge to make a media spectacle of my moral rectitude, I’d roll out a banner saying: ‘No it isn’t, you twats.’

[Medulla Oblongata]

"Worst...genocide...ever..."
 
Same article:

Let us take the claim that 44,000 people have died in the conflict in Gaza. This is queried by many, but let’s just take it for now. Israel estimates that it has killed 17,000 Hamas militants. This would mean that around 38 per cent of the fatalities in Gaza have been combatants. Naturally, people have challenged Israel’s numbers – everything Israel says is subjected to the most ferocious contestation by puffed-up ‘fact-checkers’. Some say that, actually, ‘only’ 8,500 Hamas terrorists have been killed. This would mean that around 19.3 per cent of the purported 44,000 deaths were of combatants.

Here’s the thing: even that would be in keeping with the combatant-civilian death ratio for most modern conflicts. Some studies claim that, from the 1980s onwards, around 75 per cent of deaths in war have been among civilians. Whether the proportion of civilian deaths in Gaza is 60 per cent, as some in Israel claim, or 80 per cent, as Israel’s critics claim, it is normal. Awful, yes. Truly awful. But there is no proof that Israel is carrying out anything other than war. And, what’s more, a war it has every right to fight. It was Israel that was attacked, by an army of Jew-haters, and its decision to crush that army of Jew-haters is understandable and just.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Another perspective: killing 44,000 (if true) out of a population of 2.2 million eliminates only 2% in more than a year. At this rate, and given the fecundity of Gazans, Israel will never accomplish genocide.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Exactly why it’s the “worst genocide ever”.

[Kyfho Myoba]

Why would you believe ANYTHING that the Israeli government says?!?! WhatEVER they say about Palestinians is a lie, every word out of their mouths is a lie, including 'and' and 'the'.

[Kyfho Myoba]

Except that the 44K number is clearly false. Out of 2.2 million, at least 10% are dead from starvation alone. We'll never know, but we can make some educated guesses.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It's honestly pretty incredible how western guilt over the Holocaust has been exploited and projected to manipulate foreign policy around the planet, as well as justify open borders and mass immigration from the Third World.

[Spiritus Mundi]

They did the same thing with vaccine.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The father of Jordan Neely, a 30-year-old homeless man who died on a New York City subway car last year after another passenger put him in a chokehold, filed a lawsuit on Wednesday against Daniel Penny...

This is what helping his son looks like?

[Don't look at me!]

The kid might finally be worth something.

[Homer Thompson]

he should have sued the municipality like george floyd's estranged family ... much deeper pockets

[soldiermedic76]

I wondering how much money a Marine Vet going to college on his GI Bill actually has laying around. I'm betting it's not that much.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

$12, a pack of Marlboros and/or a can of snuff, and a few cases of beer. Oh, and several half-eaten packs of Crayola crayons. "Taste the rainbow".

[soldiermedic76]

Sounds about right. If he'd been a soldier, it would be that list, minus crayons, substitute half a bottle of Tabasco, and substitute half a bottle of Jack Daniels for the cases of beer (at some point we actually had full bottles of Jack but that time period was still infinitely small that it isn't worth measuring).

[Rick James]

The father of Jordan Neely, a 30-year-old homeless man

Why does this sentence read like a man who shot an elephant in his pajamas?

[damikesc]

Penny needs to countersue for legal fees.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

The elephant was wearing pajamas? That's really cute, expect for the getting shot part.

[Spiritus Mundi]

Ghetto lotto

[Minadin]

These are wait times in weeks (!!!) to see doctors in Canada.

37.4 weeks for gynecology? At that pace, you've gone from 'I think I may be pregnant' to 'It's a Boy!'.

[Rick James]

"I think there might be a clump of cells" to "yep, it's a clump of cells"

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Pretty sure I read it first in one of P. J. O'Rourke's books:
'If you think medical care is expensive now, just wait until it's 'free'.'

[Spiritus Mundi]

You get what you pay for.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

There’s three things that one can have anything be:

Quick
Good
Cheap

However, you can only pick two. It’ll be quick and cheap, but not particularly good. It’ll be good and cheap, but not particularly fast - you’ll wait for it. Or it’ll be quick and good, but that’s not cheap - it’ll cost you.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Or you can get it from the government, and choose none of the three.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

"Or it’ll be quick and good, but that’s not cheap - it’ll cost you."

Every woman's fantasy.

[Rev Arthur L kuckland (5-30-24 banana republic day)]

A boy assigned at birth

[swillfredo pareto]

people venting rage for health insurance companies

I wonder if the economically illiterate fucktards who believe insurance is too expensive have considered how necessitating around-the-clock security teams for all insurance executives will impact their premiums?

It's great to see the left has moved past defending child mutilation and moved straight into justifying murder.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Just a matter of time; have to open Overton's window first.

[Super Scary]

" moved straight into justifying murder."

Depending on who you ask they were already doing that.

[soldiermedic76]

Was it a big step from celebrating your abortion to let's kill those we don't like?

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Not really. It’s just abortion in the 4th to 357th trimester.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Only following where Robespierre, Lenin, Mao, etc. showed the way.

And to be fair, they followed every human who used ideology (or simple tribalism) to justify killing the opposition, since before the human species.

[mamabug]

Not just executives. I actually work for part of UNH and they are strengthening security around their corporate offices too. I'm sure the others are doing the same.

[Minadin]

"It's odd, to put it lightly, that Zachery was seemingly unable to provide support to his son at critical junctures while he was still alive, but that he's interested in a payout now that he's been killed."

Odd, huh? That's not the first term that springs to my mind.

[Think It Through]

Right? It's like the author has never met a shitty person. That's exactly what a shitty person would do.

[Sandra (formerly OBL)]

"Elon Musk is now America's biggest political donor, reports Bloomberg."

Charles Koch gotta pump up his numbers.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

I wonder how Reason would change if Musk started funding it.....

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Sullum gets fired?

[Stupid Government Tricks]

More interesting to consider who would remain.

Good Liz.
Tuccille.
Robbi.
Stossel.

I don't think many others.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Read more of Tuccille's recent stuff; he is a TDS-addled steaming plie of shit.

[CountmontyC]

I suspect that Sullum would suddenly become the most pro Trump. Pro border security and anti -Democrat person on the site.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Reason wouldn’t be so Koched up.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

MOAR IMMIGRANTZ!

[Medulla Oblongata]

This came up in feeds today...something for DOGE to look at.

https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1864719916529520641/photo/1

New Senate investigation finds just 6% of federal workers show up to work in person.

Not a single Government agency is occupying even half of their office space.

Dept. of Energy building averaging 8 occupants in 1.8M sqft building. (0% utilization).

USDA building occupancy 456 in 2.7M sqft building, 6% utilization.

[Don't look at me!]

Dept. of Energy building averaging 8 occupants in 1.8M sqft building. (0% utilization).

I bet they leave the lights on all the time.

[Minadin]

DoE should be following the IECC (Energy Conservation Code) which dictates that occupancy sensors would turn off lights in most spaces after a few minutes of inactivity. (Lack of motion or noise, it gets really annoying when I work late)

But, the feds are sometimes their own jurisdictional authority, so they don't always follow the codes adopted locally.

I'd be much more concerned about the heating and air conditioning bills.

[mad.casual]

Dept. of Energy building averaging 8 occupants in 1.8M sqft building.

Take *that* Ozempic!

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Hmm, lots of empty office space? How about "immigrant" housing? That oughtta convince more of the pajama class to return to work in person.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

That's almost as insane as jeffsarc thinking they're Libertarian!

[Minadin]

For comparison, the building code calculates that an office building should be designed for an occupancy of 1 person for every 150 square feet of floor plan.

A government office building with 1.8 million square feet should hold approximately 12,000 people when 'full'. 2.7 million square feet should hold 18,000. So that USDA building is at more like 0.25% utilization.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Bets the shooter is an activist; of a progressive liberal ilk, of a same mind as those championing the killing on social media. Possibly even someone who couldn't get their transition covered.

Once that is determined, look for this to become "old news" rather quickly.

[Moonrocks]

I wouldn't be surprised if the murderer gets a lighter sentence than Penny, if he even gets arrested.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

That jury is deadlocked on 2nd degree manslaughter charge. May end in a mistrial.

[Rick James]

From the surveillance photo, it looked a lot like Taylor Lorenz.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

I thought so! Expect announcement of her arrest any minute now!

[Medulla Oblongata]

Oh Canada!

https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/12/06/nowhere-is-safe-from-the-tyranny-of-pride/

There is a tiny rural township in Ontario, Canada, just over the border from the US state of Minnesota, that glories in the name of Emo. Emo has a population of just 1,300, and until fairly recently was known (though not by many) for its picturesque waterfront park, its annual Rainy River Agricultural Fair and its catch-and-release fishing tournament, the Emo Walleye Classic. It looks idyllic, with simple straggles of wooden houses and vivid verdure bordering the enormous Clearwater Lake.

But no. It turns out that Emo is a false paradise, a hotbed of hate. All that sleepy angling and riparian tranquillity is a front. Prejudice and bigotry reign in the hearts of these simple townsfolk, for which they must be punished. Last month, the human-rights tribunal of Ontario ordered the town to pay $10,000 to an organisation called Borderland Pride, which brought a case against Emo for committing a supposedly terrible crime back in June 2020: the town council had refused to declare June 2020 as Pride Month. The horror!

The tribunal ruling also noted that Emo failed to fly an ‘LGBTQ2 rainbow flag’. The shame of it! (It turns out that Emo doesn’t actually have a flagpole to attach the sacred standard, or indeed a lesser pennant of any kind, but that’s by the by.)

And that’s not all. Town mayor Harold McQuaker made an apparently outrageous statement at a council meeting. He said: ‘There’s no flag being flown for the straight people.’ For this, he must personally stump up another $5,000. This was, the tribunal decided, a ‘demeaning and disparaging’ remark that ‘constituted discrimination’ under Ontario’s human-rights code. Mayor McQuaker and all his staff must now attend special human-rights training.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

The Poilievre Conservatives have promised to pitch those Trudeau-imposed provincial tribunals. Let's hope that they actually do it.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Into a volcano?

[Zeb]

I don't think Canada has any active volcanos.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Not recently active (past 100 years), but there are volcanoes that could become active in British Columbia. They’re not monitored as closely as those in the US.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

There are, but all in BC and part of the Pacific Ring of Fire:

https://chis.nrcan.gc.ca/volcano-volcan/can-vol-en.php

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

They can borrow one of ours.

[I, Woodchipper]

Canada is a lost cause. The joking about annexing it is not funny. Canada as 51st state would be simply adding another 20 million shit-lib climate-crisis tranny supremacists to the electoral college.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Last year - "America is a lost cause. The state is actively censoring political opinion, the alphabet agencies have become the Gestapo and are targeting PAC parents and Catholics, they're castrating their children, they're prosecuting the political opposition on phony charges, they have opened the country to the biggest colonization project and population replacement in history, their entire media complex is under the control of one party."

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

However, many have noted how fragile the Great White North is compared to its southern neighbor. The provinces have more to do with their adjoining states than with each other. BC only joined on the condition that a railroad be built to connect them to the east. And there’s still no fully divided highway connecting BC to the Prairies and those to Ontario. Quebec and NB finally are finishing one between them.

[soldiermedic76]

And Vancouver is just North Seattle.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

The funny thing is, I had a bit of this discussion yesterday with someone on X. Calgary has more in common with Montana. Regina and Winnipeg with Fargo and the Twin Cities. Windsor is suburban Detroit. The Maritimes with New England. Only Toronto stands out as something different like NYC does, but with more similarities to Chicago. The north-south ties were a major concern when putting together the confederation back in 1867, and they’re probably no less a valid concern today.

[soldiermedic76]

Funnily enough, where I live in Montana, a lot of people travel to Regina for shopping (closest Costco) and for flights (cheaper than flying out of Williston or Billings International. Also, quite a few follow the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Toronto is Detroit in the early eighties.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

Ouch. Thoughts and prayers to Toronto-ans.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Toronto is Chicago with an actual budget and fewer pension problems.

[Dillinger]

better hockey team right now too.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Most Canadians outside of Ontario acknowledge Canada isn't actually a country. It's a pile of leftover British colonies mashed together by Britain.

The best thing for the Western and Atlantic provinces would be independence and some sort of North American version of the old European Economic Community

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Well, we knew Canada wasn’t a real country based on the South Park movie. 😉

[Zeb]

I think this is something that very few Americans realize. Especially the ones that fantasize about moving to Canada when someone they don't like gets elected.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

I remember reading an article by a proggy journalist who had moved to BC railing about Stephen Harper and how he had been sold a false narrative about a socialist paradise. Good thing he didn't move to Alberta.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But the pussies never go.

[Rick James]

I COVERED THIS TWO DAYS AGO, NOTING THAT NICK IS CORRECT, IT'S ALL JUST ABOUT PRONOUNS!

[soldiermedic76]

McQuaker? Are we sure this isn't a new oatmeal meal option at McDonald's?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

As long as it's a breakfast option and not a meat substitute, then OK.

[soldiermedic76]

Not ready for Solyent Green yet?

[Moonrocks]

Elon Musk is now America's biggest political donor, reports Bloomberg

Who was the biggest political donor before now?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Rhymes with Beorge Boros.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

In other words, Pluggo’s benefactor.

[Randy Sax]

By weight? Lizzo maybe.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Pretty sure Jeff has donated to act blue.

[damikesc]

jeff is a conservative now?

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

He’s definitely a con. Don’t know about the “servative” bit though.

[Don't look at me!]

It kinda makes sense, seeing how he is the richest guy on the planet.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

The Kochtopus?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

"David Sacks has been tapped by President-elect Donald Trump to serve in the administration..."

Well this is going to make things awkward at Reason after the next Sullum hit piece.

[soldiermedic76]

Don't worry, he's busy ranting, er I mean writing it as we speak. It's going be about something Sack's has said he might do (within the limits of the Constitution) in the past, something that both Biden and Obama actually did do or are doing, but only ten times worse, that Jakey has ignored.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Sarcasmic's reliable sources.

Jake Tapper wonders if Climate Change is making earthquakes stronger.
A seismologist has to tell him there's no evidence of that.

[Don't look at me!]

Is there anything that climate change can’t do?

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Convince the climate change crisis morons that there’s no climate change crisis.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Can the Climate God make a climate so terrible that even the Climate God can't survive?

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Be real. Although, to be fair, "climate change" is real, but "anthropogenic climate change" is what most people mean, and it ain't.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Elect Kamala Harris?

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Cause an outbreak of intelligence.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Kill everyone by 1990, er, 2000, er, 2010, er, 2020, er...

[damikesc]

Give CNN some viewers?

[A Thinking Mind]

Reminds me of Don Lemon thinking a missing Malaysian Air flight got swallowed by a black hole.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Did he really?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpVd7k1Uw6A

He doesn't actually say he believes it, but he doesn't just laugh it off, he actually asks other people if it is preposterous. More a sign of how insipid talking heads are.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Reminds me of when Hank Johnson (D-GA) said he feared that stationing 8,000 Marines on Guam would cause the island to "become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize."

Of course, he's still in Congress 15 years later. OTOH, he DID replace Cynthia McKinney and even his stupidity is a huge step up the intelligence scale over McKinney.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

I tried to figure out if he was joking or not, watched some video several times, and if he was joking, it was so underwhelming that I couldn't see it. But I don't think I've ever heard anyone, not even a standup comedian, say anything to stupid, and it's hard to believe even an ancient dried-up politician really is that stupid.

[Dillinger]

that man was not joking.

[Zeb]

I had to go watch the video too when that came out. I was sure it had to be a joke. But seemed to be genuine idiocy.

[D-Pizzle]

The Dem defense at the time was that he's not stupid, he was just drunk at the hearing. Seriously.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Which reminds me of my favorite Congress fails:

“I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion.”

- Maxine Waters

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Waters just proves that logic is indeed white patriarchal privilege.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

How the U.S. State Department spends millions of dollars to coordinate Western media and direct investigative journalism against its geopolitical rivals and enemies

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Operation Mockingbird on a global scale.

[Rick James]

Kash Patel threatens that with authoritarianism! Let them print whatever the FBI tells them to print!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

See, I think this is a case where your paranoia goes too far.

The thesis of your article is that the US government is using an organization, OCCRP, to direct investigative reporting around the world in a manner that is beneficial to the government's interests.

But if you dig into the issue a little bit, it is a little more complicated. It looks like OCCRP was an investigative journalism organization that was founded in the 2000's that had some success, and wanted to build upon that success by expanding their operations. They did that by seeking external funding sources which included government funding sources. And do recall that most people don't view government funding as some evil demonic force. To most people, it is just one of many sources of funding.

If the government really is using OCCRP to direct specific government propaganda campaigns, then the article you cited never gives an example of this. It only uses suggestive language and connect-the-dots type conspiratorial type thinking.

Now, I don't support the government giving money to OCCRP or any investigative journalism organization, because it's a waste of money. I don't think the government is really using OCCRP or some organization as a front for their own propaganda, the evidence for this claim is weak.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Go read up on Operation Mockingbird first. There’s a very nasty and sordid history of the CIA interfering in the media and elections of other countries. Any brief reading of Latin American history will tell you that.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

I think this is a case of your intended ignorance to defend the left goes to far.

Read a book. Set an example for sarc.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

'We're going to gut the fish': Republicans give details from closed-door meetings with DOGE's Musk, Ramaswamy

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

This is something every real libertarian should be behind 100%, and the preeminent libertarian magazine should also back it 100%. Of course, given the ownership and editorial board, I can see Reason whining about the cuts.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

"They only did 80% libertarian things, the other 20% is unacceptable big government stuff. Libertarians should have voted for Chase instead of this tyranny."

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

But Chase is gay.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Does Sarc know?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

REALLY???? No wonder he lost. Libertarians are too homophobic to vote for teh gays. Just ask Jeff and Sarc.

[Quicktown Brix]

It seems we're all 100% behind the closed door.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Twenty Minnesota ballots went missing in key race that hinges on 14 votes

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

It was an accident. Didnt you hear the dem election official? Someone probably forgot to remove them from ballot envelopes and they were accidentally discarded.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Accidentally discarded, but only after checking to be sure they were votes for the wrong person.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

AKA saving democracy.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Sounds like part of the plot to the movie Election. Teacher pockets two votes so that the kid he dislikes loses. He gets found out in the end.

[Moonrocks]

Insurance corps being seen as the bad guys in US healthcare is a tremendous psyop by hospitals.

Insurance corps are a tremendous psyop by the government. We've forced a massive corporate bureaucracy between doctors and patients and treat that like it's the only option besides putting a massive government bureaucracy between doctors and patients.

[I, Woodchipper]

A true free market insurance industry would be highly competitive and offer myriad products actually insuring against highly unlikely but devastating outcomes.

Current health insurance industry is just a branch of government providing a shitty over-regulated government-controlled plan that funnels profits to the corporation but implements the government's vision. It's probably the worst of both worlds.

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

Also it wouldn't be provided by your employer putting another layer between you and your doctor. Business changes providers and coverage and now you need to find a new doctor or a new job.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Years ago I read a piece that suggested we have a sliver of free market medicine in the US, mostly in elective surgeries like Lasik and boob jobs. Patients pay out of pocket and shop competing suppliers. Not sure if this is still true, or what lessons it offers for the broader domain.

I do naively dream of health insurance more like homeowner insurance: designed to cover only significant and unusual losses, but not "free" daily maintenance.

[I, Woodchipper]

Pet health insurance and health care is also a good indicator of what a freer market would look like.

[Zeb]

Not that long ago you could get catastrophic coverage for a fairly reasonable rate. That went away with Obamacare.

The whole insurance thing really bothers me. I'm a reasonable healthy person. The only significant medical procedure I've had as an adult was a back surgery a few years back. I rarely go to the doctor and have no prescriptions. If I had received all the money my employer has spent on health insurance for me over the past 25 years, I would definitely be in a position to pay for any medical emergency likely to come up. Basically I get fucked over because I'm not fat and sick.

[Marshal]

If I had received all the money my employer has spent on health insurance for me over the past 25 years, I would definitely be in a position to pay for any medical emergency likely to come up.

Just like with social security you are paying for others' costs. The left wants this structure because it requires the force of government to maintain. Without that force the low cost people exit and costs go up for everyone else, repeating until only the highest remain defeating the purpose.

The left needs the government involved because their end goal is to control effectively all the economy so they can "allocate" rewards based on political reliability rather than allowing economic freedom.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Let me rephrase this for you.

... this is probably a good pick. Sacks "will focus on making America the clear global leader" in artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency ...

... this is a terrible idea. Sacks will make sure the government sticks its nose into yet more innovative new fields, suffocating progress in artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency ...

See, Liz, what happens when you forget Free Minds and Free Markets, and principles?

Fire KMW.
Get out of DC.
Liberty first.

[Marshal]

From the car insurance thread:

Again the theme of many calls is that car insurance is a *literally magical* unknowable service that reduces the immense responsibility of owning and operating a car to zero and further operates solely to lose money like a government welfare program. That’s why you have it.

Where do you suppose they get the idea this is how "insurance" works?

[Stupid Government Tricks]

My theory is that most of this comes from lumping in routine medical and dental care with employer "insurance". Insurance is meant to cover catastrophes whose rarity and expense justify pooling premiums. Covering annual physicals and teeth cleaning with insurance is stupid because the costs are manageable and fixed, and throwing in the insurance company middle man just raises the cost covered by premiums. It's as sensible as covering oil changes in car insurance.

This is why people don't understand how insurance works.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

I do have issues with current car insurance processes. Many people treat a car accident caused by the other driver as a lottery ticket. They go to slimeball lawyer who try to maximize settlement payouts, not courts, yo max insurance value then take a 20-30% cut. Then ask cops not to bother actually document accidents for cause.

It has become just a grift more than compensation for harm.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

That’s why I’ve involved a police officer in every crash I’ve been involved in.

Still remember the first one, a while ago (haven’t been in many, and not since October 2017). Lady pulls out from between two vehicles on Western Avenue in Chicago. I’m in the left turn lane; can’t see her, bust slowing for a red signal anyway. I manage to knock her bumper cover off - no air bags deployed. She gets out and accuses me of speeding, “you was speedin’!” (exact words).

City of Chicago cops show up and ask each of for the event statement. She mentions that she was waved out by two vehicles next to me so she went, thinking it was clear. Male cop turns to her and says, “lady, you know you’re supposed to look first?”. Shut her up entirely, and her husband had the look of “I told you so” on his face. Needless to say, she got the ticket and her insurance paid for all repairs and the rental car.

[Super Scary]

"Where do you suppose they get the idea this is how "insurance" works?"

Not entirely sure, but I was made aware of this mindset when the Summer of Love happened and everyone was fine with the looting because "those stores have insurance."

[mad.casual]

Where do you suppose they get the idea this is how "insurance" works?

The answer is magical vaginas. QED.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

According to most Democrats, the primary purpose of government is to provide for peoples' needs. And the further left the Democrat, the more "needs" they declare as human rights. I guess the average person does not see much difference in any context where they get stuff paid for with other people's money.

Also, people are idiots.

[Medulla Oblongata]

I was once called "truly malicious, ignorant misinterpretation...deserves only contempt" in response to my pointing out that the person who was arguing for government providing for the people's needs was likely confusing them with "wants".

The main character was engaged with someone else arguing about Marxism, and was trying to deny his position equated to Marx’s. Another commenter had pulled out the communist cant: “To each according to his needs” = Funding social programs and entitlements.

This is where I chimed in with:

I suspect part of the disconnect will lie in the definition of “what they need”. Humans all around the world demonstrate how little is truly required to survive. This might be one definition of “what they need”, but is probably not close to what progressive liberals mean when they say the words “what they need”, which apparently has come to mean “providing means for everyone to live a U.S. standard lower middle class lifestyle without any further requirements or responsibility on the recipients’ part”, i.e., an air-conditioned home or apartment with an assortment of electronic gadgets, cable TV, broadband internet, free cell phone, free food, reduced electric bill, reduced gas bill, a car and oh yeah, toss in some walking-around money.

The Marxist responded, not unexpectedly:

What you have written is a truly malicious, ignorant misinterpretation of “what progressive liberals mean when they say the words “what they need.” It deserves only contempt.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

I am happy to accept that kind of contempt from socialists.

[D-Pizzle]

Chris Rock in the early 2000s said, to great aplomb, (paraphrase) "If you don't file an auto insurance claim in five years, you should get all of your premiums back." That's like saying that if you buy 20-year term life, and don't die or become disabled during the term, you should get your premiums back. The level of ignorance concerning what insurance is and how it works is depressingly astounding.

[Moderation4ever]

The killing of Brian Thompson has really brought out the anger people feel about the healthcare delivery in this country. As the article mentions people often fail to see their own part in the problem. People want low-cost healthcare that provides everything with no waiting. People also want to live as they want eating bad food, getting no exercise and then expect the healthcare system to keep them alive. Our healthcare system has problems but fixing it means having realistic dialogue and not a complaint fest on comment sites.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Well damn, a comment from you that doesn't present as gaslighting. Trade offs are indeed a reality.

Though I have to say you've been suspiciously absent since Hunter's pardon...

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

I guarantee you his realistic dialog is for free government Healthcare as he has supported ACA and Medicaid expansion even to illegals.

[Moderation4ever]

I have supported the ACA. Because the ACA and M4A are the only two choices on the field and the ACA is better. During the 2016 Trump campaigned on a better plan that would guarantee everyone all the healthcare they wanted at a lower cost. I am still waiting for that plan.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

So I was right. Government control lol.

[Moderation4ever]

Yes, the ACA involves a measure of government regulation, but it is less than M4A. Right now, the ACA and M4A are the only plans out there. I will evaluate the Republican plan when they put it on the table for people to look at.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

You called it.

How about them wait times in Canada?

[Moderation4ever]

First, I am trying to stay away from politics for a while. I didn't want Trump but I will give him time before I start to comment. As for Hunter's pardon, I don't really care either way, it is just not that important in the scheme of things.

[Marshal]

As for Hunter's pardon, I don't really care either way, it is just not that important in the scheme of things.

Right, because leftists don't think government corruption is a problem. They object when their enemies do it but that's just gamesmanship, they don't have a problem with the underlying issue.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

It's actually not a "pardon" but immunity from being prosecuted for any possible [federal] crimes he committed over a ten year period.

I suppose this is what comes of "the adults being back in charge."

And that would be your team. Understandable you would "stay away from politics for a while" as I am sure the Democratic talking points are a bit muddled right now.

[Dillinger]

>>immunity from being prosecuted for any possible [federal] crimes he committed over a ten year period.

I have been promised Congressional subpoenas.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Yep.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

So you didn't support the first impeachment when Hunters and Joe's corruption came to light?

[Commenter_XY]

O/T...Tucker Carlsen's interview of Lavrov is worth a listen. We are sleepwalking into a shooting war with RUS.

From the RUS perspective, we are already fighting a 'hybrid' war.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Maybe Putin shouldn't have started it.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Maybe Victoria Nuland shouldn’t have led a coup in 2014.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Maybe national borders have no meaning -- over there. Here -- absolutely sacrosanct.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

You do realize that until WW2 the Eastern Ukraine was part of Russia and is still populated by mostly ethnic Russians, right? I mean Kiev is where the Russians got their start. Like the American's Philadelphia.
And Victoria Nuland's puppeteers were financing the groups attacking them.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

You do realize that the Russian empire also included Poland and a lot of other independent countries and kingdoms?

You do realize that the USSR shifted Crimea to Ukraine?

You do realize the Russia, post-USSR, promised to abide by the current borders if Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons?

You do realize you didn't answer my question about borders?

Probably not.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

I do realize that, and that left the Ukraine with a lot of ethnic Poles who the Ruthenians massacred with the help of the Nazis.

Galacia WAS Poland. It had never been inhabited by ethnic Ukrainians.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

And Galicia was part of Poland and the Habsburg empire for a very long time. Ukraine is a cleft country whose western part is very historically Polish (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) and eastern part is very tied to Russia.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

The Eastern part (ex. Crimea) was always Russia until the Soviets decided they wanted a bigger table at the League of Nations.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

My grandfather immigrated from Western Galicia in the very early 20th century. I was told that I was ethnically Polish. My wife's grandfather immigrated from Eastern Galicia. She was told that she was ethnic Ukrainian. The soviets drew the borders and Galicia got split down the middle. Prior to that, Ukraine was never a jurisdiction. It was "Little Russia". Ukraine famously suffered through the Holodomor. Ethnic Ukrainians also famously massacred at least 100,000 ethnic Poles, something they refuse to apologize for to this day. Modern day Ukraine is not an ethnically homogenous community with ancient borders. It is an invention of the soviets containing multiple ethnicities with centuries old gripes.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Great. Now answer my question about the difference between here and there regarding the sanctity of borders.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

The only real sanctity of borders exists if you can adequately defend them. That’s the way it’s been for thousands of years.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

And what were the NATO and US agreements?

[Nobartium]

That's called the 9/10ths rule (possession).

Ukraine couldn't hold the Crimea, and that was a decade ago. Not even now have they attacked that area, they know they lost it.

[mad.casual]

Maybe Putin shouldn't have started it.

Sacrificing the agency of everyone between here, NATO, and the Donbas in your "reactionary aggression to Putin" narrative is not the libertarian case you think it is.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

Maybe I wasn't making a libertarian case for anything.

For the record.

1. Stop stealing my money to give to Ukraine.

2. Get out of NATO and the UN. Leave Europe to protect itself, as they failed to do for two world wars.

3. Putin's actions are remarkably similar to Hitler's. If there is a WW III, it will be on Putin, just as it was on Hitler, and not on Biden, just as it was not on Chamberlain.

4. If Ukraine were not as corrupt as Russia ... if my government were not stealing my taxes ... I might just donate money to Ukraine. But neither is true.

The hypocrisy of the Putin apologists is no surprise. Borders for me but not thee.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

The expansion of NATO can be said for number 3 as well.

Always seem to forget those agreements and red lines from the 80s.

[mad.casual]

I got to the first sentence of 3.

After 2 (and openly admitting he's not making a libertarian case for anything), his opinions, by his own principles or precepts don't and shouldn't matter, but he, seemingly from the first sentence of 3, presumably goes ahead to demonstrate how retarded and socially progressively virtuous his opinions are.

[Dillinger]

Pete Hegseth used to act like a Pike Marine!! nothing else matters today.

[Ra's al Gore]

Bluesky libs are saying Musk is a healthcare CEO. Not inciting anyone to violence or anything.....

These dumbshits have no idea what they might be kicking off.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Or they're finally approaching the open advocation of violence [as opposed to just making excuses for it].

[Rick James]

Or they're finally approaching the open advocation of violence [as opposed to just making excuses for it].

I guess you slept through 2020-2023

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Whatever; I slept as much as I could during that time, but here lately I've felt a bit like Rip Van Winkle. Must feel unburdened but what has been or something.

[Rick James]

Yeah, just sayin', they were explicitly threatening violence-- just in my town alone in 2020. Summer of love and all that.

[I, Woodchipper]

Bolsheviks cant hide their true selves for very long. It always comes out.

[Brandybuck]

> Is Javier Milei a madman or a savior?

Javier Milei is a center of a Cult of Personality. As such, he can do no wrong from the vantage point of many Alt-Libertarians. You know, those same alt-Libertarians who stumped for Trump, another central figure in a Cult of Personality.

Let me paraphrase from an ancient Holy Book: All human beings are fallible and are in fact mere mortals.

No libertarian leaning figure should be worshiped as the Second Coming of Rothbard or whatever. Not even Ron Paul. Ideologies should be based on a firm set of ideas, not mortal and fallible politicians.

I wish Javier Milei all the best of luck, and I hope he succeeds in slaying a few more windmills. But he's not my personal savior.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Why do you even pretend to be libertarian at this point? You criticize any person that actually cuts government. You're a Democrat.

In fact you hate actual libertarians trying to reverse the government encroachment on citizens constantly. You're not libertarian.

[Think It Through]

To finally have an actual libertarian in a position of power SOMEWHERE....I kinda think he would deserve libertarian support. Especially since his policies seem to be improving his jurisdiction.

Call me crazy I know.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Milei cut more actual government offices in the first 48 hours of his presidency than any "small government conservative" in the west has in 100 years. I'd say he's earned the benefit of the doubt there.

[Chupacabra]

I think that's what Brandybuck is complaining about.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"Javier Milei is a center of a Cult of Personality."

And Trump is literally Hitler, right, you slimy, lying pile of TDS-added shit?
Fuck off and die; make your family proud, asshole.

[sarcasmic]

You're not going to convince people who accepted Trump into their hearts as their political Jesus that politicians shouldn't be deified.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

So you agree with Herr Brandyfuck about Milei?

[sarcasmic]

Depends. Are you asking if I agree with what he actually said, which is that mortal, fallible men should not be elevated to the status of savior no matter who they are, or some deliberately dishonest misinterpretation of the kind that would make you screech if done to something your savior Trump said, like what Jesse posted?

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

No. Don't try to weasel out by pretending to get philosophical. You're too low-brow to pull it off.

Do you agree that "Javier Milei is a center of a Cult of Personality"? Because that is a ludicrous suggestion.

[sarcasmic]

Way to weasel out of a discussion about ideas by projecting your lack of culture and intellectual ability onto me. Bravo. Fact is that you see Trump as a political savior, so you will avoid any discussion on the topic by attacking anyone who says it's a bad idea.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

ML asked you a direct question, twerp. You dodged it in sophistry.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

He is given to drunk posting; this is well known. And it's after noon [EST] already, not that it matters.

[Marshal]

Fact is that you see Trump as a political savior, so you will avoid any discussion on the topic by attacking anyone who says it's a bad idea.

Another standard failed. The Jeffsarcs routinely feign outrage for others putting words in their mouths. But no one one refers to Trump as a savior, much less everyone. Yet he claims it based on nothing.

He has literally never applied a standard to himself or his allies that he judges others by.

[sarcasmic]

But no one one refers to Trump as a savior, much less everyone.

Nobody says the literal words, no.

Yet he claims it based on nothing.

Not nothing. I said it based upon a lot of things. He's an outsider. The political class hates him. He's a businessman, not a politician. He understands the working man (Not really or he wouldn't be promising to raise the prices of imported goods, but I digress). He's going to dismantle the Deep State. He's going to drain the swamp. He can do it because he's not one of them. Add it all up and it pretty much makes him political Jesus.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Trump is not viewed by most as any sort of savior. He is, instead, a vessel or an avatar for these folks and their rebellion against the administrative state.

As usual, Sarc, you get things backwards.

[Marshal]

Add it all up and it pretty much makes him political Jesus

An idiotic conclusion. It makes him the best option among the available choices. It's revealing you feel comfortable making this assertion even though it is only one of many possible motivations, and also one not expressed by anyone. What kind of thinking is that? It's not logic or reason.

Now let's apply your thinking to leftists since you never do it yourself:

When celebrities pledged themselves to supporting Obama was that a savior attitude? What about when elementary classrooms sang to him? Did the left expect him to solve all ills? Who exactly sees politicians as saviors?

Yet you only criticize Trump supporters for this failing which again is only supportable by your own desire to conclude every hateful insult is true of them.

Your thoughts only reveal your own pathetic hatefulness.

[sarcasmic]

When celebrities pledged themselves to supporting Obama was that a savior attitude? What about when elementary classrooms sang to him? Did the left expect him to solve all ills?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Who exactly sees politicians as saviors?

People who fall for political cults of personality.

Obama was a cult of personality, and his Obamabots treated him like a political savior.

Biden was not.

Trump most certainly is, and his Trumpanzies treat him like a political savior.

Yes, both sides do this.

Yet you only criticize Trump supporters for this failing

I criticized Obama supporters for that plenty when he was president. There was no Biden cult to criticize, or I would have.

[Marshal]

You missed a section:

An idiotic conclusion. It makes him the best option among the available choices. It's revealing you feel comfortable making this assertion even though it is only one of many possible motivations, and also one not expressed by anyone. What kind of thinking is that? It's not logic or reason.

[Medulla Oblongata]

Trump is a bloviating ass, and someone I wouldn't trust to water my houseplants while I was on vacation.

And I still voted for him 3 times because the alternatives were either 1000 times worse (Cliton, Biden, Harris) or maybe possibly better theoretically (Johnson, Jergenson, Oliver) but 9000 time less likely to actually win an election. I felt the danger of the former winning vastly outweighed the need to make my protest votes like I had done for 30 years.

"Political Jesus", GTFO. I know what I voted for, and it surely was not for a "savior".

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Me: So you agree with Herr Brandyfuck about Milei?

Do you agree that "Javier Milei is a center of a Cult of Personality"? Because that is a ludicrous suggestion."

The Drunken Retard: "Way to weasel out of a discussion about ideas by projecting your lack of culture and intellectual ability onto me. Bravo. Fact is that you see Trump as a political savior, so you will avoid any discussion on the topic by attacking anyone who says it's a bad idea."

I think I can just let this idiotic retort stand on its own merit without having to add a thing.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Man your retard based TDS is getting worse.

[Stupid Government Tricks]

No one asked if he was your personal savior.

[Incunabulum]

Today would have been the perfect day to report on 'journalist' Taylor Lorenz' online reaction to the murder.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Did you take a good look at that person's photo? There's been some speculation hereabouts that she IS the shooter!

[Ra's al Gore]

Catherine Herridge Reveals Story About CBS and Elon Musk That Explains Why Legacy Media Is Imploding
https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2024/12/05/catherine-herridge-on-cbs-elon-musk-interview-n2182837
She took it to the CBS executives and they told her she "couldn't do it live."

She asked, "What do you mean I can't do it live?"

"Well, we don't know what he's going to say" was their replay according to Herridge.

She said she replied to her bosses, "Isn't that what journalism is all about?"

Herridge explained that CBS then tried to condition the interview with possible alternatives, including having it edited, taped, and only on CBS. She said she felt so ashamed that a news organization would place so many restrictions on an interview like that that she couldn't go back to Elon Musk, the free speech advocate. But it indicates how fearful CBS was that something that they might not want to come out might come out in such an interview. When you think that way, you're no longer operating as a journalistic organization. You should want to report on the truth, whatever it is.

Herridge was then laid off in February when she was also looking into the Hunter Biden laptop story and they laid off other employees.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

You'd think letting a guy who's a bit touched like Musk do a live interview would be a dream for a bunch of DNC hacks like the CBS crowd, for the precise reason that he might say something you can exploit later on. No wonder these fuckheads have to carve up their interview segments like Freddy Kreuger to get the narrative they want.

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where the news org changes Homer's interview to make it sound like he sexually harassed a woman instead of grabbing a piece of candy. And let's not forget the Trayvon Martin case where NBC lightened Zimmerman's skin color in his photo.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So if CBS is not a genuine journalistic organization, what is one that you can recommend?

[sarcasmic]

Only ones that pass the Republican Purity Test: Who won in 2020? If they say Trump then they're genuine. Otherwise they're leftist.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

How about just not acting as the propaganda arm of the Democrat party for starters, Sarc? I couldn’t care less if they’re liberal or conservative as long as they don’t act worse than fucking Pravda.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Say Sarkles, where'd that 8-11 million voters that suddenly appeared at 3 am in Nov 2020 and delivered Biden the most stunning presidential victory ever and reverse a 150 year trend, come from? And where did they go?

[mad.casual]

+1

Again, whether you believe the specific mechanics of people pulling fake ballots out of a briefcase and feeding them into a voting machine or not, Trump won with low-propensity voters in 2016, won bigger with even lower-propensity voters in 2024, and... somehow... lost to an unprecedentedly popular zero-debate, basement campaign, where ballots were mailed out, in between.

To put it in Black Friday/seasonal terms, it's like the guy who found the best sales in 2016 and an even better sales in 2024, lost to the guy in 2020 who got all of his purchases for free. Lost to the guy who proclaims that 2020 was the cleanest and fairest shopping season ever and no one could credibly claim anyone, anywhere got robbed... and then blanket-pardoned his son for the story that his intelligence agencies failed to hush up.

[Super Scary]

They found a good chunk of them in California a month after the election was supposed to have ended.

[sarcasmic]

I don't know and neither do you.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

So given that all the information you demand is controlled by government who has criminalized looking into it...

And all statistical and secondary information pointing to election fraud....

And democrats admitting to it in Time magazine....

Oh yeah you're a dem defending retard lol.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Oh you know all right. You're not even fooling yourself.

[Marshal]

It is so weird that he keeps criticizing others for violating the same the same standards he does. The complete lack of self-awareness is staggering. Even when you point it out he'll do it ten seconds later and not care a bit.

That's because the rules normal people internalize - honesty, consistency, fairness - simply aren't factors to propagandists.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Self awareness is not a Sarcasmic superpower.

[sarcasmic]

What standards am I violating, and how am I wrong? You have no clue as to how I judge journalistic integrity, though it is been made plainly obvious that you and other Trump defenders judge it based solely upon the political opinions of the journalists.

[Marshal]

You have no clue as to how I judge journalistic integrity

Of course I do. Every criticism you or anyone else makes includes an implied standard. If the target were not failing this standard you could not justify criticizing them. It's so astonishing it's amusing you don't understand this, or pretend not to anyway.

What standards am I violating,

Only ones that pass the Republican Purity Test: Who won in 2020? If they say Trump then they're genuine. Otherwise they're leftist.

Here your criticism sets the standard: It is wrong to conclude that people are X politically because they don't agree with my conclusion on a particular issue.

But of course you routinely violate this standard by calling anyone who disagrees with yo a Trumpist or Team Red. You also whine about people noting you as Team Blue, but as above you have no problem referring to others, often wrongly, as Team Red or Team Trump. We have done the same analysis for many of your criticisms, for example pointing out that you criticism Trump for weaponizing government as if that's wrong, but you also try to protect the government officials who weaponize government.

You have literally never applied the same standard to yourself or the left that you apply to the right. This is so obviously true you now have a stock answer that you don't expect the left to be principled.

it is been made plainly obvious that you and other Trump defenders judge it based solely upon the political opinions of the journalists.

What nonsense, but typical of your inability to discern pretty much anything. They are judged because they did not follow basic and understood practices, and when this was pointed out they defended their actions and conclusions instead of admitting error.

For example when the Hunter Biden laptop story dropped the left media first denied it. But after about 3 days they stopped and switched to ignoring and censoring the story. This change occurred because they undertook the standard verification process that all journalistic organizations do and immediately discovered it was genuine just as the NY Post had already done. But of course their political goals were the priority so instead of admitting this they tried to suppress the story.

There was a similar reveal in the Russia Collusion Hoax story. The Steele Dossier was very quickly recognized as fraudulent by the FBI. Again following the longstanding and understood process for verification FBI agents interviewed Steele's sources who told them quite different stories. The pee pee tape was an unfounded rumor the source had described as such but which Steele had converted into a "confirmed" event. The main Trump collusion accusation was traced to a throwaway comment in a bar the someone with no connection to Trump admitted was speculation he was not in position to know. Yet Steele converted this bad attempt at a funny story into a knowledgeable source speaking about known events. This is why the FBI originally dropped the case.

But because it was politically useful senior FBI officials resurrected it and presented it to journalists. Again longstanding and understood journalism practice required the journalists validate the accusations similar to how the FBI did. But in this case they simply did not because their sources told them not to.

What this shows is what anyone paying attention has known for decades: the media prioritizes politics over truth. When the left said Trump was such a danger it justified anything to stop him they meant it. So they violated any journalistic, ethical, or professional standard to hurt Trump.

This is what you defend, and this is how we know you are incapable of honest judgement on anything.

[sarcasmic]

but you also try to protect the government officials who weaponize government.

There's one lie.

You have literally never applied the same standard to yourself or the left that you apply to the right. This is so obviously true you now have a stock answer that you don't expect the left to be principled.

That "stock answer" is not new at all. I've been saying that from day one. So there's lie number two.

This is what you defend

Lie number three.

Fuck off.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Not lies at all, Sarc. Your abilities of any sort of self awareness or self reflection are sorely lacking.

[Marshal]

[but you also try to protect the government officials who weaponize government.]

There's one lie.

Trump and Patel are going after the government officials who weaponized the government against them in Russiagate among other instances. You refer to their action as "using government to go after their political enemies" in an attempt to stop them from holding these officials accountable. So this is stupid justification from sarc one.

That "stock answer" is not new at all. I've been saying that from day one. So there's lie number two.

And it's been wrong every time you've used it because the application of consistent standards come from you, not them. So their lack of principles is irrelevant. So this is stupid justification from sarc 2.

Lie number three.

Revealingly you could not find a justification but asserted the conclusion anyway showing evidence is truly irrelevant to you. But for those following at home consider the detailed journalistic errors I outlined. They are so obvious he can't deny them without ending his credibility, but his previous comment implicitly asserts these don't exist. After all only if these errors do not exist could anyone conclude that our objections to journalists were driven only by whether they are supportive or critical of Trump.

He's really a pathetic thinker for someone with such a high opinion of himself.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

And sarc retreats to calling what everyone sees a lie.

Is self delusion his super power?

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Seems to be.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

That and the world's toughest liver.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Ask sarc simply how many anonymous stories that first hand witnesses publicly call out as incorrect he believes.

He has no standards. He has narratives.

When his wrong narratives becomes insurmountable as wrong, he screams everyone else was a conspiracy theorist and facts changed. He never admits he was fooled by a lying press.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Sarc does indeed have standards. If he didn’t have double standards, then we could claim he had no standards at all.

[Mother's Lament (Salt farmer)]

Only Very Principled People like Sarc get to have twice as many standards as everyone else.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

You consistently team up with Jeff to attack sources. Lol.

You never refute the actual information from the sources.

See your consistent denial of costs of illegal immigrants. For months you would "refute it" by claiming they were anti immigrants. Never once refuting the data.

You're a fucking hypocrite.

What's even more hilarious is those you are kow accusing almost always go into the article and show their wrong assumptions or post their own counters.

You're so self unaware it is amazing.

[VinniUSMC (Banana Republic Day 5/30/24)]

Only ones that pass the Republican Purity Test: Who won in 2020? If they say Trump then they're genuine. Otherwise they're leftist.

Shut up, fascist hypocrite piece of shit.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Look at sarc rush to jeffs defense who literally demands only newsguard or leftist sources lol.

How are you two such fucking hypocrites?

[Dillinger]

CBS has literally lied to Americans' faces since its inception. Not one day was it credible.

[Medulla Oblongata]

CBS was the first to give us "fake but accurate" news!

[Ron]

CBS must have seen how Musk obliterated that British reporters interview with him. the poor guy could not keep up with Musk

[Rick James]

Insurance corps being seen as the bad guys in US healthcare is a tremendous psyop by hospitals. When one gets an absurd bill from the hospital, the immediate reaction is to blame the insurance co. for objecting to it, not the hospital for giving you an absurd bill. Amazing.

Price and the bill are irrelevant when you believe healthcare should be free.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Every single US state that's tried to implement some kind of state funded health insurance plan has eventually had to either scrap it or cut it back specifically because of the cost. That's the reason Medicare/Medicaid services made up most of our deficit last FY.

Everyone wants some kind of third-party system cutting out of pocket costs, but no one wants to actually engage on the problem of the cost itself. That's why even Canada is trying to convince people to commit suicide, so they don't drive up the cost of healthcare through excess demand.

[Medulla Oblongata]

20-year-old comment...ties some costs of illegal immigration and health care in one swoop...

If you think health-care should be provided by the government (free), do you think every person in the US (notice I didn't say citizen) should have unlimited benefits?

Consider this article:

Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt brought her illegally to the U.S. to seek medical care. She underwent two liver transplants at UCLA Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a third in 1998, each paid for by the state.

But when Puente turned 21 last June, she aged out of her state-funded health insurance and was unable to continue treatment at UCLA.

This year, her liver began failing again and she was hospitalized at County-USC Medical Center. In her Medi-Cal application, a USC doctor wrote, "Her current clinical course is irreversible, progressive and will lead to death without another liver transplant." The application was denied.

The county gave her medication but does not have the resources to perform transplants.

Late last month Puente learned of another, little-known option for patients with certain healthcare needs. If she notified U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services that she was in the country illegally, state health officials might grant her full Medi-Cal coverage. Puente did so, her benefits were restored and she is now awaiting a fourth transplant at UCLA.

The average cost of a liver transplant and first-year follow-up is nearly $490,000, and anti-rejection medications can run more than $30,000 annually, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, which oversees transplantation nationwide.

What does Ana say about her situation?

"It doesn't matter if I'm undocumented," she said. "They should take care of me at UCLA for the rest of my life because I've been there since I was a baby."

[I, Woodchipper]

On TikTok there is AdjusterTok, where work from home insurance agents video their side of calls explaining how car insurance works to irritated people, and it's quite sobering stuff. People don't really know what insurance is, it's just some magical thing to make stuff better.

How would you feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning?

[Dillinger]

I let an adjuster put me on hold yesterday because her two year-old was crying into the phone.

[Medulla Oblongata]

I didn't have breakfast this morning. I've been kind of hangry.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Poor shrikesarc.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14162187/joe-biden-nixon-trump-rating-president.html?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=social-twitter_mailonline

Biden as worst modern president. Are you two doing okay?

[TrickyVic (old school)]

"Insurance corps being seen as the bad guys in US healthcare is a tremendous psyop by hospitals. When one gets an absurd bill from the hospital, the immediate reaction is to blame the insurance co. for objecting to it, not the hospital for giving you an absurd bill. Amazing."

I thought this was worth repeating.

[Dillinger]

dude we must bill you $2430 for bandaids because UHC only pays us $.243

[mtrueman]

I don't think it's a tremendous psyop. Hospitals treat sick people and alleviate suffering. Insurance companies do neither.

"not the hospital for giving you an absurd bill"

Why not give the hospitals in Canada a try? The child of an acquaintance of mine in Ontario, Canada was injured in an accident on a swing. She broke both her arms and was taken to the nearest hospital. There was no appreciable wait, and doctors set her arms, put them in a cast, and treated her for pain, not necessarily in that order. The bill for all that? $CDN10 - FOR PARKING! Absurd? Yes. Absurdly low!

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

So they didn't pay any tax for that prior to the incident?

[mtrueman]

They paid $CDN10 for parking after the patient was discharged. The treatment was not contingent on the patient's (who was a young child at the time) paying taxes.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yes, but how much tax for the medical system did they pay prior to the incident?

[mtrueman]

$CDN0.00. The patient was a young child. She has grown into a fine young lady since then, became a nurse, and has been paying taxes and presumably parking tickets since then. Exactly how much tax she pays, I'm afraid I can't help you there. I assume it's roughly the same as any other nurse in her position.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

$CDN0.00.

False. She didn't go to the hospital herself; the parents brought her there for treatment. How much tax did they pay for the medical system prior to the incident? Because it's not actually free, although commies like to pretend it is.

[mtrueman]

"How much tax did they pay for the medical system prior to the incident? "

I know the young child paid no tax before visiting the hospital. I don't know how much if anything the parent who brought her to the hospital paid. Sorry to disappoint.

"Because it's not actually free,"

You're knocking on an open door. I never claimed it was free. I wrote that the bill presented amounted to $CDN10, for parking. In Canada, the health insurance is socialized, which, as you imply doesn't mean it's free. It's similar to other insurance plans where the costs are spread among all policy holders. If you have any other questions I'll try to answer them. But I really don't know how much taxes the people involved pay or paid, but I appreciate your interest in their situation.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I don't know how much if anything the parent who brought her to the hospital paid. Sorry to disappoint

So it wasn't actually free.

You're knocking on an open door. I never claimed it was free. I wrote that the bill presented amounted to $CDN10, for parking.

You're saying that parking is medical care?

[mtrueman]

"So it wasn't actually free."

That's a Bingo! $CDN10.

"You're saying that parking is medical care?"

No. I'm saying parking is $CDN10. Medical care is something else entirely.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Thanks for admitting the medical care wasn't free.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""Hospitals treat sick people and alleviate suffering.""

And then bill you for the service.

Insurance companies help you afford what the hospital charges.

[mtrueman]

"And then bill you for the service."

The horror. The horror.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

I know. It's so horrible that someone might shoot a CEO if they don't get it paid.

[mtrueman]

" It's so horrible "

It's doubly horrible that someone would bill you for services provided. It's almost like (shudder) Capitalism, or something.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Not sure about that. At about 15k a year for a family plan set against my hospital costs, think I'm pretty far in the red.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

Wait until someone has a heart attack. I was in the hospital one day for a mild one. $187,000.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

What was the insurance adjusted cost? Still 12 years of my coverage costs. Which I've paid more than that.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

""Though costs have risen, services have declined. Hospital beds available per capita have been dropping steadily since 1984, the year the Canada Health Act was adopted, which laid out the framework for how Ottawa would distribute health-care dollars to the provinces and territories.

And hospital bed numbers are low: Canada ranks fourth from the bottom in a measure of beds available per capita in OECD countries, with only Chile, Sweden and Columbia ranking lower."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/health-care-how-we-got-here-fix-broken-cracks-billions-canadian-duclos-1.6691196

[Medulla Oblongata]

Biden stated to be contemplating more blanket "preemptive" pardons.

--------------------

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Joe Biden is weighing whether to issue sweeping pardons for officials and allies who the White House fears could be unjustly targeted by President-elect Donald Trump’s administration, a preemptive move that would be a novel and risky use of the president’s extraordinary constitutional power.

While the president’s pardon power is absolute, Biden’s use in this fashion would mark a significant expansion of how they are deployed, and some Biden aides fear it could lay the groundwork for an even more drastic usage by Trump. They also worry that issuing pardons would feed into claims by Trump and his allies that the individuals committed acts that necessitated immunity.

Recipients could include infectious-disease specialist Dr. Anthony Fauci, who was instrumental in combating the coronavirus pandemic and who has become a pariah to conservatives angry about mask mandates and vaccines. Others include witnesses in Trump’s criminal or civil trials and Biden administration officials who have drawn the ire of the incoming president and his allies.

Some fearful former officials have reached out to the Biden White House preemptively seeking some sort of protection from the future Trump administration, one of the people said.

[Super Scary]

"They also worry that issuing pardons would feed into claims by Trump and his allies that the individuals committed acts that necessitated immunity."

I can't imagine how issuing blank pardons with just date ranges would invoke those thoughts.

[I, Woodchipper]

Normalize having presidents just pardon thousands and thousands of people for all kinds things. I want every to be numb to pardons and then they will just shrug when Trump pardons Assange, Snowden, Ross, and others.

Every money-launderer and tax-evader should be pardoned as a blanked pardon like Carter did for the draft-dodgers

[Dillinger]

please, tell us whom to flay lol

[mamabug]

I like how conservatives are just mad at Fauci because of 'mask mandates and vaccines' and not, I don't know, of being instrumental in the creation of the virus, personally profiting off both the virus research and the vaccine, engaging in a massive cover-up for the above, and knowingly recommending ineffective government actions that resulted in the violation of civil liberties, lose of personal property, massive wealth transfers to big corporations, and an irreversible harm to the development of an entire generation.

[D-Pizzle]

You haven't been paying attention, have you?

[Ra's al Gore]

Libs want to cheer on people being shot in the street at the same time they advocate disarming us. They can all fuck right off.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

These are wait times in weeks (!!!) to see doctors in Canada.

Yup, whenever there are price controls, such as when the government decides an overall budget of what to spend on health care, there is going to be rationing. The rationing may come in the form of denial of care, or it may come in the form of long wait times (like in Canada), or it may come in the form of woefully underpaid doctors (like in Japan). There is always a price to be paid.

We do need to reduce the government role in health care. At the same time, on a practical level, very few people will vote to change the status quo if they think that that change will mean "sick people dying in the streets". So we have to explain how reducing the government's role in health care will actually make things better for everyone.

[Ra's al Gore]

What is the wait time for assisted suicide?

[Stupid Government Tricks]

"We". Ha ha.

And then you claim Japanese doctors are woefully underpaid. Strange. Are they slaves? If they got their degree and their jobs voluntarily, how are they underpaid?

Like Letterman once, some guest said something nice about a teacher, and he spontaneously spouts off "All teachers should be paid double what they're getting now."

Tell me you know nothing about economics without saying you know nothing about economics.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Economics, at least the kind with numbers and math, is patriarchal white privilege.

[TrickyVic (old school)]

The Chicago way.

""Despite proof of consistent payments since 2012, McElory recently received a letter from the Cook County Circuit Court stating her home was sold for delinquent taxes, and she may owe three years of back rent to the buyer.""

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realestate/i-pay-my-bills-chicago-woman-loses-home-despite-paying-property-taxes-on-time-for-over-a-decade-sold-for-delinquent-taxes-how-did-this-happen/ar-AA1vo7lI?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=e86d82cb548143299651fe030724fbff&ei=48

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Kaegi has a lot of explaining to do here. He’s a corrupt machine bastard though. She needs to get some help and sue the crap out of them.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

This happens in Arizona a lot. There are different property tax rates for primary ownership and rentals. The state goes out of their way not to tell you that fact. Then they wait a few years and a big tax bill for back taxes for not switching.

Bet that's what happened here.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Not quite. The Cook County Assessor’s Office mixed up the PINs between this property and the adjacent property, sending the tax bills to the wrong addresses. They fixed their error without alerting this property owner and then back charged her for her taxes that she had unknowingly paid for the adjoining property.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Yeah. That's worse.

[Ron]

Lefties calling for more CEO deaths is straight communistic, marxist, dictatorish tactics. and they claim Trump is Hitler when they are wanting to do what Putin does to those he dislikes on a weekly basis

[mtrueman]

"Lefties calling for more CEO deaths is straight communistic, marxist, dictatorish tactics."

No, communists have relied on mass movements of people: demonstrations, marches etc. Assassination has been an anarchist tactic. Archdukes, presidents and CEOs have been assassinated by anarchists. Learn some history, Ron, it won't hurt you. Assassination is probably the more effective as those CEOs responsible realize that they actually have skin in the game and stand to lose something precious to them. The communist tactics of marching and signing petitions just haven't got the same persuasiveness.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

No, communists have relied on mass movements of people: demonstrations, marches etc. Assassination has been an anarchist tactic.

There were plenty of assassinations, and assassination attempts, carried out by communists in the 1960s and 70s. "Days of Rage" goes into explicit detail on it.

Learn some history, Ron, it won't hurt you.

Quit playing "No True Marxist" when the actions of marxists are noted, mtrueman, it won't hurt you.

[mtrueman]

Days of Rage refers to street demonstrations in Chicago in 1968. Not assassinations. The only assassination I recall from that time and place was that of Fred Hampton, at the hands of Chicago police. Maybe you think the police were also communists? Clearly you are confused, in any case.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

It's a book. You should "learn some history" and read it.

[mtrueman]

" You should "learn some history" and read it."

You are correct. I would likely learn something if I read it. Thanks for your recommendation.

That fact remains that the only assassination in Chicago in '68 I'm familiar with was that of Fred Hampton. Were you thinking of him or had someone else in mind? Kennedy and King were also assassinated in '68 but not in Chicago and not by communists. So, in all honesty, I really don't see the point you are trying to make.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

So, in all honesty, I really don't see the point you are trying to make.

Of course not. You thought I was talking about an event and not a book that documented communist assassinations and attempted assassinations in the late 60s-early 80s. Read the book.

[mtrueman]

I may get around to it, but I can't promise anything. I appreciate your recommendation. I urge you to check that these 'communist assassinations' you speak of aren't in fact anarchist assassinations. Or you're not mistaking police assassins for communists, neo Marxists, liberals; democrats or progressives. Communists have engaged in such acts of violence, but their main focus is on mass actions like demonstrations, marches and the like. The largest demonstration in US history was against the second war against Saddam Hussein of Iraq in 2003. If you attended you will already know that it was organized by a communist outfit called ANSWER. That's the communist style: nobody was killed at that demonstration, let alone assassinated. Just a lot of propagandizing, sign waving, networking, coalition building and petition signing.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I urge you to quit these lame deflection efforts when your lack of knowledge has been exposed.

[Idaho-Bob]

Oh, fuck off. Communists have murdered ~250M people in the last 100 years.

Marching and petitions my ass.

[mtrueman]

Assassinations have long been a tactic of anarchists. Not the only one, mind you, they also prefer occupations, road blocks and other forms of direct action. Communists have different tactics, and assassinations are not typically used.

"Communists have murdered"

Murder is not the same as assassination. Assassination victims are prominent individuals targeted for ideological reasons. That's why we call this killing of a CEO (one prominent person) apparently over his business practices an assassination rather than a murder.

[Idaho-Bob]

Assassination victims are individuals targeted for ideological reasons.

Yes, like refusing to be communists. 250 million assassinated if you prefer.

[mtrueman]

" 250 million assassinated if you prefer."

Is English your second language? If not, what's your excuse?

If you believe that the death of the CEO was not an assassination but a run of the mill murder committed by a communist, make your case. Otherwise, find someone else's ankles to nip.

[Dillinger]

>>It's like half the internet must greet health care CEO assassination as a good and noble thing, and half the internet must spend time carefully sifting through the root causes that result in people being dissatisfied by the existing system, and never the two shall meet.

maybe we just solve a murder first?

[Dillinger]

>>Sacks "will focus on making America the clear global leader" in artificial intelligence and cryptocurrency

the irl John Conner story begins with Sacks lol.

[Dillinger]

>>"The suit comes as a jury in Manhattan is deliberating in Mr. Penny's criminal trial to determine whether he is culpable in Mr. Neely's death."

a. who paid half this idiot jury?
b. I'm real sorry this guy lost his son but is a civil lawsuit the way to show the world he didn't care for his son the days before he died?

[mad.casual]

b. I'm real sorry this guy lost his son but is a civil lawsuit the way to show the world he didn't care for his son the days before he died?

Every foreigner or immigrant I've explained American Rule to, if they aren't involved in a lawsuit, you can watch this wave of grokking American culture wash over them. If they are involved in a lawsuit, it's more like the car door scene from GOTG 3.

[Dillinger]

what's happenin' Luther? I'm sorry about the door, man.

https://www.tiktok.com/@eddiemurphycomedy/video/7278369772629282090

[Medulla Oblongata]

Did that hurt? It looked like it hurt.

[Dillinger]

>>these annoying pleas will cease soon (but my gratitude won't!).

mine either I love this place. muchas gracias.

[Rick James]

Well, this happened.

[Super Scary]

It looks like the taller one with the big hair was spraying something into the crowd as they were running off. Could have been just a stinky smell thing, but that's is some dangerous shit right there. It could have been anything.

[Mickey Rat]

Which is why doing something like that is legally considered assault.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Looks like the Daniel Perry jury is deadlocked on the more serious manslaughter charge. This is not exactly good news. This should be a straightforward acquittal but some jurors want to put this guy in prison for 15 years. There remains the negligent homicide charge which they have apparently not voted on yet.

[Ska]

I'm thinking this is about as good news as you could have expected in this case. That out of 12 city residents there were enough sitting in the jury room going "Manslaughter? Get the fuck outta here."

[Gaear Grimsrud]

So at the request on the prosecution the judge just dismissed the manslaughter charge and told the jury to come back on Monday and decide on the lesser charge. I will go out on a limb here and say the jury will deadlock on negligent homicide as well.

[shadydave]

Apparently there are protestors outside the court screaming "murderer" every time they leave the courthouse. Also there's this:

https://adland.tv/sites/default/files/image/lynched.jpg

It seems that Penny is on trial quite literally due to the color of his skin.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Is that real? JFC.

[shadydave]

Yeah, it's real. I don't think it's city approved, I think it was done by activists.

[Mickey Rat]

And when it comes down to brass tacks, the trans activist dogma is that "sex determined by biology" is never an important category that has legal implications. It is always overridden by "gender identity", even when it is potentially harmful to others (like women 's sports) or harmful to the transgender person (like in medicine, where drugs can have different effects on male and female physiology, potentially confusion about what sex a person is can have dire results).

[Think It Through]

Yes this is always so simple to me, so logical.

"Sex and gender are different." A dubious proposition, but fine -- if true, then for any activity where it's important, we divide by sex, not by gender.

For the life of me I can't figure out what's wrong with that.

[Vernon Depner]

"Sex and gender are different."

Yes. Sex physically exists, while "gender" is merely an ill-defined concept.

[Think It Through]

Yes, therefore "a dubious proposition."

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

ChemTrans’ head exploding

[mad.casual]

For the life of me I can't figure out what's wrong with that.

Your issue is never the issue. Their issue isn't the issue. Their issue is to distract you from their craven need for more power and control.

It's not about sex or gender, it's about reversing people's ability to call a spade a spade and making them bend the knee.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

I'm no expert on handguns. All I have is a J frame 6 shooter. But looks like the United Health shooter has much more exotic taste. Can any of you experts explain why anyone would want to own this thing?
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/suspected-ceo-assassin-arrived-nyc-bus-last-month-stayed-hostel
According to CBS News, police believe the murder weapon is a B&T Station SIX-9, which comes equipped with a sound-suppressor and retails for around $2,100. Note carefully how B&T describes its latest version:
This updated, integrally suppressed pistol features a new grip and updated magazines, yet maintains its non-descript appearance, whisper-quiet sound signature and unique rotating bolt operation. This model in 9mm wears a 3-in. barrel. It finds its operational success as a magazine-fed, non-auto-ejecting single-shot functioning in a rotational bolt action. It is beautifully enhanced by wipe suppressor, and a baffled suppressor is an available option for those who prefer that design.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

That would explain why the shooter seemingly jammed the gun with each shot but looked like a pro removing it. He’s got some practice and is used to the gun.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Yeah the YouTube video looks like it's a pain in the ass to operate compared to an ordinary 9mm. But the shooter obviously knew how to handle that particular weapon. Weird. Or as I have recently decided to describe shit like this, Strangio.

[Use the Schwartz]

B&T Station SIX-9

That is an oddball, an expensive oddball. Looks like B&T is a Swiss company. Maybe it is an elaborate way to avoid an additional BGC and traceable tax stamp on the suppressor?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Makes sense but in this case it obviously narrows the suspect list. The feds will have no problem tracking down every one of these guns legally sold. Almost like this guy wants to get caught.

[mad.casual]

While I don't necessarily disagree with the "wants to get caught" or at least taunting, there's a strong indication to me that, between the hostel and the gun, the guy isn't even in the country at this point and maybe even wasn't a month or two ago. Also, if he's even halfway literate, dredges and a team of divers wouldn't find the gun, or pieces of it, if they searched for 100 yrs.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Apparently he dumped the designer backpack in central park so yeah the gun is probably in a river somewhere.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Looking closer, it was originally designed for veterinary use, puting down larger animals without disturbing people or other animals nearby. The company built 30 of them, 25 for an order and 5 for company use, originally before finding that there was a small market for the guns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCgger_%26_Thomet_VP9

[Zeb]

Well, if money were no problem, I'd kind of like to own every kind of gun because I'm just interested in guns and how they operate and I like shooting.
Looks like one reason people use them is for vets putting down large animals.
Not being autoloading, in addition to the suppressor makes it even quieter (since there is no bolt noise and no gas escapes out the action). Which makes it good for the above purpose, as well as for assassination (because it's quiet and doesn't leave a casing behind if you only take one shot).

[mad.casual]

Right. The Welrod, on which it is based, is the actual, no-shit "Hollywood Quiet" gun.

[mad.casual]

Well, if money were no problem, I'd kind of like to own every kind of gun because I'm just interested in guns and how they operate and I like shooting.

+1 The more I read, the more $2100 doesn't sound too bad.

So, a big, known, classic difference between the Welrod and modern silencers is that the original Welrods had actual wipes in them. For those that don't know, this means there were actual barriers (cloth, paper, plastic, etc.) in the gun that contained the noise energy that the bullet generated rather than just baffles that spread out the noise energy.

The original Six-9 came as a kit, with both a baffle silencer for training, which was louder but you could fire as many rounds as you wanted through, as well as a wipe silencer for whatever you would need to be really, really quite but only for a couple of handfuls of shots until you had to replace the wipes.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Here's a video of the Welrod showing the wear on the wipes after a few rounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoWE8wiBtgU&ab_channel=ForgottenWeapons

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

So this guy decided to use a designer handgun brand rather than just a standard Browning or Taurus 9mm that's in reach of most people's budgets. That's the first indication that this is some sort of Antifa trust fund brat or a paid-for hit rather than a crime of passion.

[Zeb]

Or premeditated revenge. Maybe a parent or spouse of someone who died and they blamed it on insurance not covering something. I don't know, but that was my first thought.

[mad.casual]

Antifa trust fund brat or a paid-for hit

It can be two things. Any wetworks guys from even the Whitey Bulger-era have got to be running out of steam. Presumably, Russia, Eastern Europe, Turkey, the ME, Iran, etc., have all been keeping up with whatever demand may there may be.

[Marshal]

There's a picture of him available, he's a pretty young guy.

[mad.casual]

Can any of you experts explain why anyone would want to own this thing?

It's a modernization of the old, British Welrod and, without whiz-bang resolution-enhancement that "police" have I couldn't say it isn't. A hybrid between the ethos of your 6-shooter, a bolt gun, and an integrally-suppressed assassin's pistol. Popular among assassins from WWII through Vietnam up to and including 'The Troubles'.

It should be noted that $2,100 for such a weapon is exotic for much of N. America but, in other parts of the world or just New York, not being an automatic, this is quite possibly the only accessible (suppressed) weapon allowed or accessible by law.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

" not being an automatic, this is quite possibly the only accessible (suppressed) weapon allowed or accessible by law."
Starting to make sense. So legal to own but rare enough that it will be easy to track the buyer. This guy seems to have put some great value on the suppressor but at the expense of greater anonymity. Could be John Wick living on an island in the Caribbean right now. Or just some dumbass hoping to stand trial for the crime of the century.

[mad.casual]

Could be John Wick living on an island in the Caribbean right now. Or just some dumbass hoping to stand trial for the crime of the century.

IDK. As morose as it sounds, I'm glad he was on the street in NYC on Dec. 4 and not on the roof in Butler, PA on July 13.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Fair.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Had to YouTube the British Welrod. The assassin's gun. You are right on target there.

[ITL (Factio Democratica delenda est)]

Here's the gun itself: https://web.archive.org/web/20211119055205/https://bt-ag.ch/en/products/bt-firearm-products/vp9/

The effective range is 5m (16.4ft). It's almost perfect for a close-range assassination like this one. Apparently B&T sells it in the US as they also have a 45 caliber version they sell here.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Interesting. Obviously modeled on the assassin gun Welrod as MadCasual pointed out but marketed to veterinarians. Seems to work in either application.

[mad.casual]

Looks like Ian himself doesn't think it's a Welrod or clone (which would disagree with things that "The Authorities" are reporting) and (extrapolating from what he's saying) it's just a silenced/baffled regular semi-auto without a booster (additional recoil spring that ensures the recoil action completes with the additional weight of the silencer).

[MWAocdoc]

"Is Javier Milei a madman or a savior?

Why can't he be both? I don't think the two are mutually exclusive and so far his policies have been remarkably on point and successful beyond all expectations.

[MWAocdoc]

"people venting rage for health insurance companies, frequently betraying how little they actually know about how the system works."

As I tried to point out yesterday, any anger about health insurance companies at this point is coming after almost six decades of collectivization by the Medicare mafia. Although I gave up on expecting any semblance of fairness among the public concerning medical care in America long ago, it's discouraging to witness the dim bulbs dimming further and further every year leading to nearly 100% of wishful fantasizing having replaced reason and sense.

[Kyfho Myoba]

Sadly, I'm not surprised at the amount of straw-manning and no-true-scotsman fallacies being bandied about on various forums (including this one) on the shooting death of UHC CEO Brian Thompson. I refuse to call it a murder. Many here will call me a com-tard leftist for my position, but let's look at some facts. UCH under and AT Thompsons direction almost TRIPLED its rate of denying claims, to the highest in the industry: 32%. He even rationed anaesthesia. (?!?! You should give this some long and hard thought before replying) Other CEOs - Kim Keck of Anthem - did so as well but changed her mind the day after the shooting. (shocked face!!) UHC used an AI that had a reversal rate of 98%.

I understand that the practice of medicine is incredibly socialized - I've been a card carrying libertarian and Libertarian Rothbardian/Hoppean ancap for coming up on 50 years. I know how markets work and how collectivism doesn't in all the obscure, arcane ways. Bottom line: the people cheering the execution of Thompson are pretty much evenly split between left and right - I know, I read the comments in the various forums and can tell by their reasoning where they lie. Actually, on second thought, they're more right leaning. I see very few with general non-specific entitlement reasons, more of "they paid their premiums, and now the insurance doesn't want to pay" kinds of arguments. I, myself, have experienced this up close with 2 car accidents I was involved in as a passenger. The phrase from the shell casings is from a book "Delay Deny Defend" which describes the lengths that insurance companies will go to to evade paying claims while staying within the letter of the statute, while flipping the bird at the spirit.

Any way you slice it, Thompson defrauded and murdered his customers when they were most vulnerable.

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.” Fredric Bastiat

Every process that Civilization developed for reducing violence in society has been weaponized by these companies against their customers, perfected by UHC and Thompson, and been subverted into an organ of oppression. Voting doesn't work. Protesting doesn't work. Courts don't work. Policing doesn't work. People are more than walking wallets, productivity percentages in excel, tax donkeys, or front line meat for the latest world building exercise for the organs of the Deep State.

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design (CONSPRACY THEORIST!!!!) to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

There is only one box (soap, ballot, jury, cartridge) left of the American experiment and I predict you will see such acts with increasing frequency. Rebellion is my fucking heritage. Is it yours?

[Kyfho Myoba]

I almost forgot, regarding Thompson:
He died doing what he loved, not getting medical care in time.

All hail the Claims Adjuster!!