Democrats Did Themselves No Favors by Veering Hard to the Left
Economics likely spelled doom for Harris, but extreme ideology sealed her party’s fate.

Democrats frequently refer to Republicans as "extremists" and even "anti-American" for the alleged radicalness of their views. Given the thumping the donkey party took in the recent election, it's worth reexamining just how "extreme" the victors really are. It turns out it's Democrats who moved away from the mainstream of American thought, leaving Republicans closer to the center and more relatable to voters. While that doesn't fully explain the election outcome, it's an important part of what happened.
You are reading The Rattler from J.D. Tuccille and Reason. Get more of J.D.'s commentary on government overreach and threats to everyday liberty.
Political Truth in One Cartoon
In 2021, evolutionary biologist Colin Wright shared a cartoon showing him as a center-left liberal on the political spectrum circa 2008. In the following years, those to his left sprinted farther left, dragging the center with them. Without moving, Wright found himself on the right. The cartoon struck a chord and was widely shared. According to John Burn-Murdoch of the Financial Times, it has a lot of truth to it.
"Data shows Democrats taking a sharp turn leftward on social issues over the past decade. This has distanced them from the median voter, just as Wright's cartoon depicted," he wrote in a recent analysis. "We see this not only in Democratic voters' self-reported ideology, but in their views on issues including immigration and whether or not minorities need extra help to succeed in society."
Burn-Murdoch cites research by the Data for Progress think tank finding that "political elites are more supportive of a wide array of progressive policies than the average likely voter." The term "political elites," researchers specified, refers to "those who hold significant authoritative roles in government, or those outside government whose occupations position them to influence those inside government." Their ranks include government bureaucrats, media pundits, and military officers. The phenomenon is particularly pronounced among Democratic elites, nudging the party left of even rank-and-file Democrats.
"This can create situations where policies and rhetoric alienate the very groups they're aimed at," notes Burn-Murdoch. He points to policing, affirmative action, and immigration as areas where Democrats moved far from the median voter. Americans picked up on the shift. "US voters also perceive the Democrats as having moved much further left than the Republicans have shifted right in recent years," he added.
In fact, a 2023 Morning Consult poll found "by a 9-point margin, voters also see the Democratic Party as more ideologically extreme than the GOP."
Polls Find GOP Inching Right, While Democrats Go Hard Left
Burn-Murdoch isn't the first political commentator to point out that the party that most often throws around words like "extremist" is itself rather removed from the beliefs of the median voter.
In June, Gallup noted that, while "Americans have become significantly more likely to identify as liberal in their views on social issues" and slightly more liberal on economics, the movement is all one-sided. "Both trends toward more liberal views than in the past are driven by U.S. Democrats; neither Republicans nor independents have become more liberal in their views over time."
In 2004, 39 percent of Democrats identified as "liberal/very liberal" on social issues, rising to 69 percent in 2024; on the same topic, Republicans moved from 64 percent identifying as "conservative/very conservative" in 2004 to 74 percent this year. On economic issues, 28 percent of Democrats identified as "liberal/very liberal" in 2004 compared to 49 percent in 2024. Sixty-four percent of Republicans called themselves "conservative/very conservative" on economics in 2004, with 82 percent claiming that description this year. Independents didn't budge during that time, leaning moderate.
That pulls the center left, but it leaves many Americans de facto closer to the GOP than to Democrats.
'Lots of Non-Crazy People Find Us Just Plain Scary'
Three years ago, progressive blogger Kevin Drum crunched the data on support for specific issues and concluded that, while Republicans had shifted to the right, Democrats had gone much further left. "Progressives have been bragging publicly about pushing the Democratic Party leftward since at least 2004—and they've succeeded," he wrote.
On issues including immigration, abortion, same-sex marriage, guns, and taxes, he found Democrats moving strongly left over the years. Republicans shifted a bit more conservative or, in the case of same-sex marriage, became more liberal.
While Drum favors more left-wing positions, he conceded, "over the past two decades Democrats have moved left far more than Republicans have moved right….The truth is that the Democratic Party has been pulled far enough left that even lots of non-crazy people find us just plain scary."
Inflation Was a Hurdle That Extreme Ideology Could Never Leap
That said, this ideological drift is not the full explanation for the election outcome. As Burn-Murdoch of the Financial Times emphasizes, "the main reason the Democrats lost the US election is that inflation kills political incumbents." Arguably, though, inflation and the resulting hike in the cost of living (it takes more than $120 now to purchase what $100 bought in January 2021, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics) is largely a result of big-spending policies favored by the left. True, Republican Donald Trump's first presidential term was no model of fiscal restraint; he sent the national debt soaring. But that albatross hangs around the necks of Democrats who loudly embrace high spending as preferred policy.
Also, "scary" isn't just found in ideological positions, but in conduct. In recent years, the worst elements among Democrats gained a reputation for muzzling dissidents on social media, shouting down dissent, and even denying financial services to those considered politically or morally suspect. Everybody can play at cancel culture, but it's now associated in the public mind with Democrats and the left.
Additionally, let's note that "extreme" isn't a synonym for bad and "mainstream" doesn't mean the same thing as good. It's possible for political positions to be far removed from the center of gravity of public opinion, but also to be correct. It's also possible for the majority to be wrong about important issues.
But political movements that sharply veer from most voters without making serious efforts to persuade them—that instead rely on censoring or shaming those who disagree—risk losing badly at the voting booth. That's especially true when they've enacted policies that immiserate and offend much of the population. In retrospect, it may be surprising that Democrats did so well as they did.
"The evidence all points in one direction," Burn-Murdoch concluded. "America's moderate voters have not deserted the Democrats; the party has pushed them away."
They may argue that they're correct on policy, but Democrats are more extreme than the public.
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Courts shut down Democrats blatantly illegal scheme to count invalid votes in PA Senate race.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/you-dont-have-to-go-away-mad-bob-casey-just-go-away/
“The problem is that Pennsylvania law and case law specifically stipulate that such ballots are invalid. The matter had already been litigated before the state supreme court twice before Election Day — and both times the court insisted that no, the law meant exactly what it said: Undated absentee or mail ballots are presumptively invalid.
So the boards of elections in those four Democratic counties, in their infinite wisdom — and not, say, with Marc Elias in their ears — apparently decided that this rule was unconstitutional, particularly when it involved a close race with a Democratic Senate seat on the line. They were appallingly open about the fact that they were breaking the law, as well — as Bucks County election commissioner Diane Ellis-Marseglia proudly proclaimed when announcing that the board would be counting invalid ballots despite the Pennsylvania supreme court’s prior rulings: “I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn’t matter anymore in this country. People violate laws anytime they want. So, for me, if I violate this law, it’s because I want a court to pay attention. There’s nothing more important than counting votes.””
“In any event, when the Pennsylvania supreme court handed down its brief order today, the majority opinion was written with cold fury. The court granted the McCormick campaign’s application for extraordinary jurisdiction and wrote tersely to open (citations omitted):
'The Court hereby ASSUMES its King’s Bench authority over the Instant Application, only to DIRECT that all Respondents, including the Boards of Elections in Bucks County, Montgomery County, and Philadelphia County SHALL COMPLY with the prior rulings of the Court in which we have clarified that mail-in and absentee ballots that fail to comply with the requirements of the Pennsylvania Election Code SHALL NOT BE COUNTED for purposes of the election held on November 5, 2024.'
The language of the Court (“shall comply” in both bold and all-caps, neither of which are necessarily required) says it all in its barely concealed anger and disbelief at the Democratic commissioners and their repeated refusal to obey the law. (The concurrences are equally bewildered and outright mention how appalled they are to have to be ruling on something they already made crystal clear.)”
Diane Marseglia got her wish....the Court paid attention. And bitch-slapped her for the entire world to see. What a dumbass.
Maybe it's part of her intellectual rape fantasy.
She is saying her clear statement in video was taken out of context and people misinterpreted her. As all democrats do. Sounds like one of our resident psaki fans.
Seriously? The self proclaimed hypocrite hunter who whines and cries whenever he feels that someone took Trump out of context and misinterpreted what was said is attacking Democrats for doing what he bitches and moans about every single day? Talk about irony.
And our resident Psaki fan weighs in lol.
Sorry I don’t buy your Trump is Hitler bullshit. Seems like just yesterday you of all people brought up Godwins law.
When I call out your MSNBC lies like the fine good people hoax or the GA find the votes I show you what he actually said.
You like this democrat just claim you never said something. Weird.
And you respond by deliberately misinterpreting things I’ve said in the past. You’re not a hypocrite hunter. No, you angrily accuse people of doing what you are doing while you are doing it. That makes you irony man.
So everyone else can’t understand your nuanced statements?
Maybe you are a shit communicator?
Sarcjeff is extra butthurt lately. Fell off the wagon?
Other than a few posts in the comments, Reason seems to be ignoring this. Would it be the same if the parties were reversed? I don't think so.
Blinken just openly threw US support behind Maduros opponent despite the cleanest Venezuelan election ever. Same issues as 2020 election here.
I want to know who is approving him to do this. Biden sure as hell ain't. Harris ain't. We have bureaucrats making US policy...something that was never considered to be a good idea.
1/20/25 is a necessary day for this country.
They can write all the sternly worded letters they want but it doesn't matter until these people are tossed in jail and ruined.
Since the election the Dems have become a bunch of whinny, crying bitches that take no responsibility for their losses. They are what we thought they were.
They are who we thought they were.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gz3Stx1N14Y
Since the election the Dems have become a bunch of whinny, crying bitches that take no responsibility for their losses.
They turned into Trump supporters?
Thanks for proving his assertion.
You've gone full Jen Rubin lol.
So binary of the lad.
Says someone who, for the last four years, has been a whiny, crying bitch who never let his candidate take any responsibility for his loss.
Do you still think Jesse is tall, well-groomed, and looks like a cop?
No self-reflection for sarcjeff. You've been a whiny, crying bitch your whole life. Now you've cranked it up past 11! Fucking LOL.
Since this election? Or Lincoln's? Maybe prior?
For proof of this, read the comments on any story about politics in the Washington Post. The Democrats only lost because of misogynistic, racist, MAGA, white men and Handmaid adjacent women.
The truth is that the Democratic Party has been pulled far enough left that even lots of non-crazy people find us just plain scary.
Yes. This is why Team D will continue to lose elections; the leadership of Team D is just disconnected from the experience of ordinary Americans.
There's science to back this up:
https://twitter.com/_alice_evans/status/1857307840248947196
"But political movements that sharply veer from most voters without making serious efforts to persuade them—that instead rely on censoring or shaming those who disagree—risk losing badly at the voting booth. That's especially true when they've enacted policies that immiserate and offend much of the population. In retrospect, it may be surprising that Democrats did so well as they did."
They did as well as they did because they ARE censoring those they disagree with; Democrats may be nutcases these days, but they're nutcases who control most of the media. That's why they're so furious about Musk and Twitter/X; If Twitter was still run by the left, they'd probably have won this year anyway.
If we had an actual honest media, team D could not possibly win more than 30% of the vote. I once heard a talk radio host say something like: "33% of the people want to save the country, 33% of the people want to destroy it, and the other 33% either don't care or are too stupid to understand which is which."
Not sure what the split would be between team R and team L would be in the Honest Media scenario, though. Probably depends on how woketarian team L decides to be that year.
"Economics likely spelled doom for Harris, but extreme ideology sealed her party’s fate."
Truth in headlines:
Complete incompetence spelled doom for Harris.
Let's be fair to 'Special K'.
One, Special K has no extemporaneous speaking ability. It is not her fault that she effortlessly composes word salads on demand.
Two, Special K was the Obama picked replacement for The Big Guy, who was unceremoniously removed in a political coup, right in front of our lyin' eyes.
Three, Special K could not separate herself from The Big Guy. That is the case for every VP. Bush and Gore dealt with the same thing.
Four, Special K, unburdened by any past failings (like getting her ass kicked in an election), now eyes 2028 like a childless cat lady eyes organic cat food.
I wonder about Special K, and whether she knew P Diddy way back when in CA. You never know. They ran in similar circles.
Special K belongs in the special olympics.
She could be president of the short bus kids.
Even the screwballs that ran Special K for pres have more sense than to run Mr. California
him her them it’sxerself, Gavin Newsom.One could hope they change their mind by 2028. Repeating this DNC wipeout would be glorious, and my boy’s the right tool for the job.
Complete incompetence spelled doom for Harris.
Basically. A billion-dollar feel-good media campaign, with wealthy celebrities telling us the economy was great, and a feckless candidate dodging any unscripted interviews will only go so far. At some point the candidate has to appear capable of handling the job.
that instead rely on censoring or shaming those who disagree
The right thinks the left is dumb. The left thinks the right is evil.
By these modern day metrics, I'm "right". Classically liberal, I don't give a shit what you do, but I'm all for smaller government, tend toward more traditional relationships, value small business and community, patriotic and though I'm not religious I don't care if you are.
So, from my perspective on the right, I'll say it straight out. I think the left is evil.
Especially progressives, who fall into line when powerful people use their zeal to consolidate power and stop me from living my life the way I see fit.
"He points to policing, affirmative action, and immigration as areas where Democrats moved far from the median voter."
LOL
#OpenBordersIsElectoralPoison
Sandra, I noticed that Rev Arthur got himself banned. And I know how much you enjoyed raking him over the coals on prognostication. But Arthur is no more. I will miss him, clingers and all.
May I suggest Sarcastr0, mtrueman, Randal and SPB2 as targets for your literary
ireattention. I noticed you crossed swords with David Nieporent; that would be a battle royale, as DMN is really funny (and colorful). He has the quote of 2024, which was truly hilarious ("Trump treats the Seven Deadly Sins as a To Do List").You have a special talent Sandra, I would hate to see it go to waste. 🙂
You know for a fact the Rev. got banned? Or just assumed because he hasn't been around?
I would have enjoyed shoving his dumb prediction down his throat one more time. With Harris' loss, unless Biden pulls off something huge in the next few weeks, there will be no more Democrat-appointed SC Justices until 2029 at the earliest!
Yeah, my understanding is he crossed the line badly with Prof Volokh, and got his ass thrown out and 86'ed.
Not to worry Sandra, you have a target rich environment. You might even call them, bitter clingers, lol (my nod to Rev Arthur). Sometimes you probably get bored just raking SPB2 over the coals (which I enjoy immensely). I'm looking forward to your contributions. 😉
Are you really groveling to get Sandra to join the mean girls? pathetic
Girls just want to have fun. 😛
Can he not just come back as RevKirkland #2? Worked for shrike.
Yeah, my understanding is he crossed the line badly with Prof Volokh, and got his ass thrown out and 86’ed.
Wow. Glorious. I'd love a link to that post. 😀
DEI, woke, mask mandates, proxy wars, attacking freedoms, controlled media. Team D are statists. Big Non-birthing Sibling.
And now their going to have a fight with Nancy Mace not wanting a tranny in the house women's restroom, they have learned nothing.
Think they will install a urinal there? If so, as payback, they could walz on into the men's rooms and install tampon dispensers.
Additionally, let's note that "extreme" isn't a synonym for bad and "mainstream" doesn't mean the same thing as good. It's possible for political positions to be far removed from the center of gravity of public opinion, but also to be correct. It's also possible for the majority to be wrong about important issues.
LOL. Fuckin' magazine.
Republicans/Conservatives - [States objective but actual inconvenient truth.]
Robby Soave - Yes it's offensive but even Republicans/Conservatives have a right to say offensive things... to be sure.
Progressives - [Despite decades of calls about abuse and victimization of women, girls, homosexuals, and children; calls for sexualization of children including neutering them under unfounded medical experiments for lack of conformity, locks everyone in their homes because of sudden undying devotion to everyone's grandma (unless she already lives in a retirement home, then fuck her), openly supports violent, destructive, and divisive race riots (again, fuck grandma) and censors virtually every last major news outlet within view].
J.D. Tuccille - Extreme views aren't always morally wrong... to be sure.
Even at your best the magazine is a goddamned clown show.
They're Progressives of course they veered left.
Doctrinaire Progressivism believes that man will be perfected by The State. They don't believe in an axiomatic formulation of governance. They are racist eugenicists.
Why is anyone surprised?
'...believes that man will be perfected by The State.
Sounds familiar...something about an ideology that killed, exclusive of wars, a 110,000,000 people during its reign between 1919 and 1989.
Hitler was but a piker by comparison.
And also a socialist, just a more nationalist one.
No joke. Piker by numbers (our WW II ally Stalin more than doubled him in kills --- not even going to get into the epic-tier mass slaughtering of Mao) and in per capita (Pol Pot killed 1/4 of his country's total population in 2-3 years).
I’m just sad that as the parties become more “liberal”, they haven’t gotten more libertarian on most social issues. That’s because “socially liberal” stopped meaning, more or less, socially tolerant, and just has a self-sustaining meaning, i.e. “agree with us on social issues at the moment”.
Sexual tolerance peaked about half a century ago and started moving sideways at best. People have gotten a little more tolerant of some drugs, less tolerant of others. Freedom of international movement morphed into stuffing ballot boxes and culture. It’s all about how to discomfort the bourgeois — and maybe has been all along, but used to be able to be mostly hidden behind a libertarian thrust.
The "elitist progressives" regard their beliefs and attendant sense of virtue as a religion, much like the soviets revered the ideology of communism, even if it killed over a hundred million souls in the 20th century. They will never recent, so expect a lot of doubling down.
And yet all but 1 reason writer supported team d, or the L candidate to the left of team d. Get a mirror
Wolfe openly states she voted Trump. Robby flirted with it and probably did as well. If I remember correctly, Tuccille said he leaned Trump only because of the left's open anti-semitism.
You're correct that they are all anti-right/republican. Thankfully there is a bit more movement towards rejecting the left lately.
You mean democrats have objectively been far more extreme than republicans? I'm shocked! Surely Reason has used the term "far-left" over "far-right" at a 20-1 ratio that reflects reality. What? You say they have done so at an inverted rate?
I don't agree that the right has moved right. They have been attracting people from the left and moving leftward on most issues.
This article is gaslighting. Reason's coverage doesn't reflect the reality described here.
His finishing comments come across as a cope. He knows it's one side that has gone extreme. It is true that being outside the norm doesn't make you wrong, but in context this is a revealed preference and defense of the extreme left.
I don’t agree that the right has moved right. They have been attracting people from the left and moving leftward on most issues.
This is a good point. It's funny how many issues that only a few years ago were pretty solidly associated with the left are now seen as right wing issues. Opposition to big media and other corporations, vaccine and mainstream healthcare skepticism, opposition to war and the MIC, etc. Yet many people still seem to think that everything is still the same as 10 years ago.
Democrats frequently refer to Republicans as “extremists” and even “anti-American” for the alleged radicalness of their views. Given the thumping the donkey party took in the recent election, it’s worth reexamining just how “extreme” the victors really are. It turns out it’s Democrats who moved away from the mainstream of American thought, leaving Republicans closer to the center and more relatable to voters.
Hey, it’s like someone actually was reading the Comments section. Why wasn’t this article published any time between January and Nov 5th?
A: because Reason writers are out of touch with reality. They will only regain their balance when they abandon the liberal hell-holes of NYC and DC.
Indeed, they should move out to someplace where the whole political spectrum is present. They'll find the cost of living lower in 'red' America, too.
In retrospect, it may be surprising that Democrats did so well as they did.
Blame Reason and the MSM for their blantant propaganda campaign and attempts to brainwash the public. Certainly Trump would have won a much larger landslide with a balanced media landscape.
Journalist, heal thyself.
Is this a joke? Democrats falling into line in support Israel's hard right genocide in Gaza. Harris appearing together with Cheney, while snubbing Sanders. Harris failing to advocate socialized health insurance. That's hardly hard left. It's business as usual corporatist uni-party stuff. Say what you will of the Trump campaign, at least it wasn't business as usual.
It’s not genocide, and the Israelis were the ones attacked. You seem to be pushing the position that the Palestinians can attack Israel, commit unspeakable atrocities against them, and the Israelis aren’t allowed to defend themselves.
In any case, I wanted to point out that the Dem party has been the War Party for better than a century now:
WW I - Wilson
WW II - FDR
Korea - Truman
Vietnam- JFK/LBJ
GW I - GHWB(R)
GW II - GWB/Cheney(R)
Ukraine - Biden
But the Dems fought these wars with a Republican leaning military. Essentially the Dems sending Republicans to fight and die in their wars (until the last 4 years where the Dems tried to remove Republicans from the military, are missing recruitment goals, and are talking reinstating the Draft instead). Just the opposite of the Civil War.
"It’s not genocide, and the Israelis were the ones attacked. "
Another Harris supporter chimes in.
"You seem to be pushing the position that the Palestinians can attack Israel, commit unspeakable atrocities against them, and the Israelis aren’t allowed to defend themselves. "
Again, parroting Democratic talking points and genocidal apologetics. Do you think of yourself as hard left? You clearly haven't thought this through.
"But the Dems fought these wars with a Republican leaning military."
You're making my point for me. Dems are not hard left but part of the corporatist uni-party. Read my comment again. The hard left opposed all those wars you mention except perhaps for WWII.
“…Democrats falling into line in support Israel’s hard right genocide in Gaza…”
Antisemite shits just can’t quit lying, can they?
Funny how the pro-Hamas cheerleaders never mention their heroes kidnapping, raping and murdering Israeli (and American) citizens on 7 October.
Weird, huh?
Another Harris supporter chimes in. Why not tell us how Israel has a right to commit war crimes?
Hamas is not hard left. They are a conservative Islamist party. If Israelis didn't want to be raped and murdered, they should have acted on the information they had that an attack was imminent. They could have easily cancelled the music festival just outside the fence of the concentration camp, for a start. Your crocodile tears leave me unmoved.
just outside the fence of the concentration camp
Any resemblance of Gaza to a concentration camp, it is the fault of Hamas.
How does Gaza resemble a concentration camp?
mtrueman If Israelis didn’t want to be raped and murdered, they should have acted on the information they had that an attack was imminent. They could have easily cancelled the music festival just outside the fence of the concentration camp, for a start. Your crocodile tears leave me unmoved.
Open support for mass murder. Every now and then they fuck up and accidentally admit what they really believe. This is one of those times I appreciate Reason's limitation on comment deletions and editing.
It's always this way though isn't it? They place all the responsibility on those they hate and none on those they support such that "don't kill 1,000 civilians" becomes an unreasonable expectation.
"Open support for mass murder. "
Yes, are you surprised the Israelis stand for it? Their PM has openly funded and supported Hamas for decades, and when presented with evidence from multiple sources that something was afoot last year, he did nothing to prevent it.
“don’t kill 1,000 civilians”
You're against killing civilians now? Strange, I had you pegged as a Harris supporter.
You’re against killing civilians now? Strange, I had you pegged as a Harris supporter.
What's most interesting about this is that even after you explicitly admit you don't care about civilian murders you still try to claim the moral high ground by framing Harris as morally degenerate for similarly not caring (although I'm sure she would not agree with your assessment). Assuming arguendo you are right why is Harris not caring about civilian murders such a problem for you? After all that would make her...just like you.
Like so many leftists you don't apply to yourself the standards you use to judge others.
I don't believe Hamas is killing civilians. They are confined to Gaza and there are no Israeli citizens in Gaza, just Israeli soldiers. I don't really relish the idea of killing anyone, but soldiers bent on genocide would be an exception.
"by framing Harris as morally degenerate for similarly not caring "
To be fair, I believe Trump is even more of a moral degenerate than Harris.
"Like so many leftists you don’t apply to yourself the standards you use to judge others."
I support a ceasefire and a political settlement. You reject both. So much for your moral posturing.
I don’t believe Hamas is killing civilians. They are confined to Gaza and there are no Israeli citizens in Gaza, just Israeli soldiers.
The October 7 attack was on specifically civilian targets. So the answer is you either lie to yourself to protect your self-image of being moral or you lie to others and accept you have no morals and criticizing others for ostensibly not having them is just propaganda.
To me it doesn't matter which.
"The October 7 attack was on specifically civilian targets. "
I disagree. The attack was specifically targeting the Israeli military bases and facilities surrounding the concentration camp. Militants also rounded up civilians and military personal not for murder, but to serve as bargaining chips for the release of Palestinians held by Israelis.
It's likely that some Israelis, anyone trying to stop the militants from achieving the above goals, were shot dead. But since Oct. 7th, I'm not familiar with Hamas killing any civilians. They seem to have focused exclusively on killing Israeli military personal who have invaded Gaza intent on committing genocide. Completely kosher according to all the rules of war I'm familiar with.
"To me it doesn’t matter which."
It should matter if you want to respond to me. What's the point otherwise?
My point, in case you missed it, is that Harris, who supports Israel's genocidal actions in Gaza, could not by any stretch of the imagination, be accused of veering to the left. Leftists I know are horrified by what is happening and have called for a ceasefire and political settlement. To stop the killing, in other words. And for all you blather and moral posturing, you can't bring yourself to agree.
^ above me is a lie that's easily provable.
Stupid old lady.
"above me is a lie that’s easily provable."
Easy but evidently beyond your meager capabilities. Insult and bluster is all you can muster.
I disagree.
Lie is the correct word here.
The attack was specifically targeting the Israeli military bases and facilities surrounding the concentration camp. Militants also rounded up civilians and military personal not for murder, but to serve as bargaining chips for the release of Palestinians held by Israelis.
The interesting comparison here is how obvious the lies are when you spell them out. Israel kills civilians when targeting Hamas who hides among them leaving no choice and you criticize Israel. Hamas intentionally targets civilians including babies for rape and murder and you lie to protect them. It's this discrepancy which proves your antisemitism.
What’s the point otherwise?
Drawing out the truth for the audience. Left wingers seem to think they are the final arbiters of reality, that nothing is proven unless they accept it. Nothing could be further from the truth.
My point, in case you missed it, is that Harris, who supports Israel’s genocidal actions in Gaza,
Again you think only your point matters, more Left Wing Privilege.
Leftists I know are horrified by what is happening and have called for a ceasefire and political settlement. To stop the killing, in other words
That's not really true though is it? Leftists had nothing to say about the Oct 7 attacks except to explain how they are justified. Only when Israel attacked Hamas and also tried to recover hostages did the left react with outrage. Further they don't seem interested in stopping "the killing", like you they seem quite pleased with killing Israelis.
And for all you blather and moral posturing, you can’t bring yourself to agree
This is not true but even if it were why would it matter? Since you explicitly admitted you don't care about dead Israeli civilians even if true this would make me ...just like you.
You are more than capable of parroting Harris talking points. Does that mean you are veering hard to the left? I don't think so. What's your opinion.
In my opinion it’s ridiculous and revealing, but also amusing, you think your conclusion can be supported by looking at a single issue. Further the original assertion was not limited to Harris, it was Dems and the left generally.
All of this points to a hyper-focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict which given the antisemitism we've now uncovered at least explains your obsession.
"All of this points to a hyper-focus on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict "
I disagree. Read my comments again if you doubt me. I mentioned 3 reasons why Harris didn't veer to the hard left: choosing Cheney over Sanders, failure to promote socialized medicine/insurance, and support for genocide in Gaza. You have chosen to completely ignore the first two, and instead hyper-focused on the Gaza issue. I can only conclude that you hate Jews.
"If Israelis didn’t want to be raped and murdered, they should have acted on the information they had that an attack was imminent. They could have easily cancelled the music festival just outside the fence of the concentration camp, for a start. Your crocodile tears leave me unmoved."
If Hamas did not want to get obliterated, they should have not attacked Israel, raped and tortured numerous women, and held numerous hostages. They could have easily not done the attack, for a start. Your crocodile tears leave me unmoved.
"If Hamas did not want to get obliterated"
I don't think they mind getting obliterated. They are willing to sacrifice themselves for their cause. Don't you agree? Look at their leadership. I don't think a single one of Hamas' leaders have died a natural death for decades now. Same goes for their family members. Compare with the Israeli leadership. Maybe one or two cabinet members have been assassinated. The only PM to die was at the hands of an Israeli fascist.
The idea that Hamas should refrain from resisting Israeli occupation out of fear of death doesn't reflect reality in the least. Where do you come up with these fantasies?
"I don’t think they mind getting obliterated."
They seem to bitch about it endlessly. I know, they're bitches and that is what they do, but still...
"Don’t you agree? Look at their leadership."
The ones living in luxury after stealing aid meant for their people? Those dicks?
"I don’t think a single one of Hamas’ leaders have died a natural death for decades now. Same goes for their family members."
Same happens with street-level drug dealers who, while bad, are not AS bad as Hamas. Scummy little bitches tend to die a lot when competent people decide to put them in their place.
"Compare with the Israeli leadership. Maybe one or two cabinet members have been assassinated. The only PM to die was at the hands of an Israeli fascist."
That's because Israel is a good and worthwhile country while Hamas...well, I'd hate to tarnish the reputation of kiddie rape rings by comparing them to Hamas, but they are the closest facsimile.
"The idea that Hamas should refrain from resisting Israeli occupation out of fear of death doesn’t reflect reality in the least. Where do you come up with these fantasies?"
Israel was not occupying them. They just elected a gaggle of shit-tossing monkeys who cannot manage a bowel movement.
Hamas is the epitome of FAFO. They FA.
They've been FO ever since.
Serious question: Why should Israel stop? They can never trust anything the Jordanians who now claim to be Palestinians say about anything. They've proven their inability to be honest for decades. And the ME does not really care about them. Why should it ever end until every militant is dead or Israel gets some new land in Gaza when all of the people there are no longer there?
"They seem to bitch about it endlessly. I know, they’re bitches and that is what they do, but still…"
I don't know what you are referring to.
"The ones living in luxury after stealing aid meant for their people? "
Again with the Harris talking points.
"Same happens with street-level drug dealers who, while bad, are not AS bad as Hamas. Scummy little bitches tend to die a lot when competent people decide to put them in their place."
More of the same.
"That’s because Israel is a good and worthwhile country while Hamas…well, I’d hate to tarnish the reputation of kiddie rape rings by comparing them to Hamas, but they are the closest facsimile."
Still more.
"Israel was not occupying them. They just elected a gaggle of shit-tossing monkeys who cannot manage a bowel movement. "
More again. Why not try thinking for yourself?
"Why should Israel stop?"
Good question, and reflects something original for a change. Maybe they shouldn't stop. Never interrupt your enemy while he's committing an error were the wise words of Napoleon.
"Why should it ever end until every militant is dead or Israel gets some new land in Gaza when all of the people there are no longer there?"
Why indeed? What would Napoleon have to say?
"Again with the Harris talking points."
Your zinger seems misplaced when REALITY is a more accurate term. I just wish the IDF would release the footage of the leadership dying. I love comedy.
The rest of your comments are your usual bullshit with your attempts at zingers and your affection for Hitler and all, Mizek.
"Your zinger seems misplaced when REALITY is a more accurate term."
You are totally missing the point. Harris did not veer to the left. He support of the genocide proves it. This has triggered in you a torrent of bigoted anti Palestinian vitriol that doesn't reflect well on you. I understand you hate the Palestinians and that everyone who doesn't hate them is a jew hater. Give it a rest already.
Haha. No, no, UJ you got it all wrong. Ask mtrueman about his theory of who actually committed the “gratuitous rape and murder” on 10/7. Shocker! It wasn’t Hamas!
No, they were bravely “confronting the IDF” while unaffiliated palestinians (or gazans, or whatever the fuck) were actually the “gratuitous” ones. Just normal guys looking for a good time who happened to be in the right place at the right time. You see, all that child murder made the little rascals horny, apparently.
MT clearly makes the case explaining why no country in the Middle East wants anything to do with these animals. Even a blind, retarded squirrel…..
Harris moving to the center was all a smoke screen. She wasn't convincing in blowing smoke because A) she's a terrible communicator, and B) she has a long record of being a hardcore leftist.
Biden's handlers were trying to thread the needle of supporting Israel (somewhat) while not speaking out too strongly against Hamas, delivering aid instead of insisting that Hamas free the American citizens who were among the hostages taken on October 7th. Harris was so afraid to lose the far left terrorist sympathizer vote she picked an extreme liberal Minnesota governor instead of the moderately more pro-Israel Pennsylvania governor who could have helped her win the election if it were just a bit closer nationally.
"Harris moving to the center was all a smoke screen. She wasn’t convincing in blowing smoke because A) she’s a terrible communicator, and B) she has a long record of being a hardcore leftist."
If you disagree with the author, take it up with him. Leave me out of it.
The fact is that Harris and Biden both supported Israel, giving weapons and billions of dollars in support of their genocidal efforts. Not something one would expect of a hard leftist, who wanted a ceasefire and political settlement. Harris never promoted socialized health care/insurance, again, against the wishes of any self respecting hard leftist. She campaigned with rightists like Cheney over leftists like Sanders. Not a hard leftist move. I wrote all this in my original comment, in case you missed it first time around.
" Harris was so afraid to lose the far left terrorist sympathizer vote she picked an extreme liberal Minnesota governor"
But she married a far right terrorist sympathizer spouse. Something Trump failed to do at least 3 times.
"who wanted a ceasefire and political settlement."
Well, Hamas was the sole reason there was not one. Literally the sole reason.
"Well, Hamas was the sole reason there was not one. Literally the sole reason."
There was a ceasefire. November last year. Between Palestinian militants, including Hamas, and the Israeli military. Hezbollah and Houthis joined in for good measure. Have you forgotten? Check google for details if you think I'm lying.
Well, they broke the one active on 10/7. Broke the one is November by not honoring their part. Hamas has been the impediment. The sole impediment. Every death is exclusively Hamas' fault.
Still parroting Harris talking points, I see. I'm surprised to see you veering hard to the Left.
Are you under the mistaken impression that you have some winner of a "zinger" there?
It's not my fault you support goat-raping, child-molesting sub-humans. Look into yourself to find out why such stuff is so attractive to you.
"It’s not my fault you support goat-raping"
It's your fault for being unwilling to look beyond the lies of Biden, Harris, and Israeli propagandists. I understand they only tell you what you want to hear, but, if you are a thinking adult, and I think you are, it's no excuse.
"find out why such stuff is so attractive to you."
I've told you several times now that I support a ceasefire and political settlement. I've been writing the same thing for over a year now. You oppose a ceasefire but accuse me of reveling in violence. What would Biden say? Your own thinking seems to have led you to an impasse. Maybe Trump has the answers you seek. Why not confront him and leave me out of this?
"It’s your fault for being unwilling to look beyond the lies of Biden, Harris, and Israeli propagandists. I understand they only tell you what you want to hear, but, if you are a thinking adult, and I think you are, it’s no excuse."
Sorry you support goat raping, child molesting sub-humans. Speaks poorly of you. Your heroes are not fully human, you know.
" Your heroes are not fully human, you know."
Again with the Harris/Biden/Yahoo talking points. Why not join the smarter bigots and come up with some slurs of your own? So you hate Palestinians. So what? The fact remains that Harris support of the genocide in Gaza and the other things I mentioned show that she did not veer hard to the left. Your only response is to repeatedly slur the Palestinians. It shows a lack of depth on your part.
Harris appearing together with Cheney, while snubbing Sanders.
Harris outperformed Sanders with his own constituents, so... it worked?
Harris appearing with Cheney but snubbing Sanders, failing to promote socialized medicine/insurance and supporting the genocide in Gaza doesn't indicate veering to the left. It's an attempt to claim the Liberal center.
First, misconstrueman, we need to establish that you are a useless antisemitic POS, who is too chickenshit to pick up a gun and help his hamas homies.
Second, Israel has committed no war crimes.
Third, hamas can end the war by surrendering, and releasing the hostages.
Fourth, FOAD. Slowly and painfully.
"we need to establish that you are a useless antisemitic POS,"
Another Harris supporter chimes in. What with the election over, they're coming out of the woodwork.
I don't think Harris was with Cheney due to ideology. I saw it as a see even republicans hate Trump move. More of a smug elitists attitude.
Harris's campaign was basically hate Trump, love me.
All ice, no whiskey.
"More of a smug elitists attitude."
That's right.
The democrats evolved into the party of Wall Street, Hollywood and academia snobs decades ago.
It wasn't until 2020 - 2024 did the democrats come out of their elitist closet and looked down on us peasants with contempt publicly.
Democrats used to represent the working people. Now they represent the people who are dependent on government (the poor, new immigrants, government employee unions, and universities) and people who are so rich they can afford to pay higher taxes while they virtue signal.
"Democrats used to represent the working people. "
In other words, they used to appeal to the left, now they don't. Why don't you take it up with the author who appears to believe the opposite?
No antisemitic POS, Team D used to appeal to the common working man, now they appeal to childless cat ladies.
And Zionist thugs with cats or without. Don't forget them or their generous contributions.
Harris didn't pick Cheney to endorse her to try to show Trump's support was crumbling; Cheney endorsed Harris because he's still a pro-war neocon, and the Democrats are the party of war now.
They're all parties of war. Sending billions to Ukraine and Israel, sanctions against Russia and dozens of other countries are totally bipartisan efforts.
About 20 years ago the antiwar Left realized that, instead of fighting the War party, by joining it they could push their liberal agenda worldwide.
It's hardly surprising that they oppose Moscow given that Putin is notoriously anti- LGBTQ....
Putin is busy promoting multinationalism. Once that was the US line. Now that US seems ready to abandon Liberalism, the Russians have taken it up. They're in Africa now, chasing out the Americans, promoting BRICS, an anti-American third world solidarity outfit, and cementing ties with Islamists, Communists and just about everyone else the US is ready to abandon. It's everything that a hard Leftist could ask for in a politician: peace, harmony and virulent anti-Americanism.
I think possibly you aren't familiar with the hard left. They are much more sympathetic to Russia than you have been led to believe. Expand your sources, GREGDN, they are not giving you the full picture.
"I don’t think Harris was with Cheney due to ideology. "
Pretty much agree. Snuggling up to Cheney was to show she stood for Liberalism, uni-partyism, and above all, she wasn't Trump. Hardly veering to the hard Left.
Not surprising to see Military Officers among the liberal elite. However, I'd add a qualifier of "senior". I doubt the junior officers just getting out of the academy are buying that crap and wouldn't put advancing the woke agenda on the list of why they chose to serve.
The cartoon is funny and may feel true because it matches their perceptions, but it's really not accurate.
When people placed themselves on the moderate left in 2008 they were basing it on the Dems/left's public brand. But starting then leftists believed they would win essentially every future election so their political focus included more competing among themselves rather than with Reps/conservatives. Since these competitions were public instead of hidden within their institutions the public learned more about them, like AOC's Green New Deal which among other things included promises of funding for people who didn't want to work.
But these extreme ideas were always part of the Dem/left programs, they were just hidden from us. For example CRT became public in the 2010s as a way to justify racial discrimination among children. But there was a famous, although inadvertent, publicizing of CRT in the 1990s in which the Seattle School district published a manifesto including things like claiming "holding a future time orientation (planning ahead) is racist" straight from the CRT handbook. Since the public rejected this leftists understood it had to be hidden and their media allies treated it as an anomaly similar to how we no longer hear about CRT now. But we should all understand it is still fully operative within education and other left-controlled institutions. The media just doesn't cover it any more because they know doing so costs the left support and their top priority is empowering the far left.
Another example is the Title IX extremism where essentially every sexual encounter is assault and simply awaits the woman's accusation to make it so. This includes such biased adjudication rules it effectively became true that accusations proved guilt. This was advanced at Antioch college in the 90s and ridiculed until it was withdrawn. But in 2010 or so the Obama DOE illegitimately issued a "Dear Colleague" letter claiming Title IX of the 1964 Civil Rights Act required this same framework which of course our universities eagerly and immediately adopted.
Returning to the cartoon, the beliefs people are claiming show Dems moved left since 2008 have been a core part of their mission since the 1970s. Since then the Dems have been trying to implement them bureaucratically rather than openly because they know these beliefs are overwhelmingly opposed by the public. The Dems / left were always much further left than the public understood and this is still true today. That's why so many of their acolytes are on websites disputing these obvious facts and trying to convince people these core beliefs are merely a fringe, so people will not recognize their program until it is too late to effectively oppose it.
It didn't help that many, like Tuccille, turned into raving piles of TDS-addled steaming shit.
FOAD, Tuccille; make the world a better place.
The liberal elites have moved the Democrat party so far to the left, they have left the mainstream electorate behind and opted to go full whacko. Now anyone to the right of their leftist, extremist views are right wing extremists, nazis and bigots. Anyone. There is no centrist ideology or politics. No middle of the road voters. They are all now Nazis who want to destroy “Democracy”!!
That’s what cost them this election and even in California where the mayors of San Francisco and Oakland were given the heave ho. George Gascon was tossed out on his ass and laws pertaining to theft and drug dealing were reinstated.
Another of George Soros’ bought and paid for whores was also tossed out like so much worthless trash.
"Democrats Did Themselves No Favors by Veering Hard to the Left."
Democrats are socialists by nature.
They have embraced all the failed socialist policies of Europe, Latin America, Asia, etc., yet they still continue to try to put a square block in a round peg.
This tells me they are either intrinsically stupid, cannot satisfy their lust for power over us or both.
Inflation was the main issue, and Harris/Biden took the blame, even though the Fed and Congress were more responsible for it. The social issues mainly just fire up the people who were going to vote Blue or Red anyway.
Voters expect Democrats to lean left, but they still want effective government, and Democrats across the country were failing at the fundamental responsibilities of government — enforcing the laws, delivering justice, securing the border, and maintaining peace.
I just watched a Jon Stewart podcast where they were discussing this. The part that jumped out to me was Jon had a “learning moment” when the guest asserted that:
1. For most people in the USA, Class Identity supersedes Racial Identity.
(Then Jon tried to squish it all together as another aspect of the same Marxist Dem Identitarian platform [because that is all he knows])
2. Many blue collar workers are proud of their work
(This observation was particularly mind-blowing to Jon, which highlights his cloistered elite urban mindset)
Now I enjoy it when people learn new things, especially when it runs counter to what they have always believed. But I gotta say when these two little nuggets are mind-blowing to someone who is considered an icon of the Left, and has been propagandizing for decades, it is very disappointing and disconcerting.
It's almost as if Jon doesn't really know what he is talking about. 😉
It is baffling to imagine people doing work that is actually useful to society to some.
"Marxist" LMAO - The Dems managed to finagle almost $2Bn out of a bunch of arch-capitalists to support a "Marxist" candidate for President? Do you people even know what "class consciousness" means from any perspective other than the false narratives of idpol and LGBTPQXYZ? Ya know, the ECONOMIC elements of class consciousness that the Corporate Democrats, Corporate Republicans and their FIRE Sector corporate owners actually hate and use any tool available (i.e., idpol, gender) to destroy?
Since my comment is pretty much entirely about Economic Class I think that it is obvious who is ignorant here. Enjoy your gray box.
They're not going to learn anything from it. Jen Psaki, Joe Scarborough, Maddow, Stelter, NYT, WaPo - all of them are talking about stepping back to re-evaluate, but then they immediately contradict themselves by preening their absolute commitment to climate change idiocy, transgender child mutilation, abortion on demand, boys in girls bathrooms/sports, open borders, etc. (And don't even get me started on the GenZ and White Karen demographics who have spent the last two weeks screaming and crying into their TikToks swearing on their satanic altars that they're the normal ones and everyone else is screwed up.)
The Woke Mind Virus has already finished killing them. It's cored out their brain and left them with nothing but wokeness. Now they're just husks, utterly incapable of anything approaching a rational thought, as they recite their hard-left marxist nonsense like the mindless NPCs they now are.
That is, if they still have a job. CNN is cutting staff. MSNBC is up for sale and CNBC is also on the chopping block.
Rumore is that Elon will buy MSNBC and relabel it AJNBC/Alex Jones NBC.
I suspect ABC will be taking a good long look whether or not to continue with The View.
I know Comcast has spun off their cable channels --- but Elon, from all I have ever heard, is not terribly enamored with Alex Jones.
I've been saying for years that I don't think mainstream America is buying what the left is selling. The left has a large megaphone called social media that makes them look like they are bigger numbers than they are.
The other problem with the Democrat party is, it is filled with narcissists. Absolute spoiled little narcissistic brats, especially with the gen Z crowd who have never been told no in their lives. Narcissism is rampant within that party, which is why they cannot comprehend why they lost so convincingly. It doesn't even cross their little minds that so many people would reject their woke DEI-trans ideology. It's unthinkable to them.
They don't get it and they never will.
Indeed. The ENTIRE trans "movement" is simply the largest movement of utter narcissists in the history of man. Trans on the left are OBSESSED with themselves to a degree that, historically, would lead to them getting a savage beating for being overbearing cunts.
Nah, Democrats just need to 'hone the message' and everything will be alright. People need to know how good they've got it.
Do I hate modern Democrats because of their dedication to socialism or their freakish agenda for progressive society?
Yes.
Democrats - SOCIALISM? LMFAO
Okay. Considering that Trump did an end-around on Killary in 2016 by co-opting Bernie Sanders' "socialist" rhetoric aimed at the middle class and working poor.
New Ideas!!! … on why the 2020 election was the most secure election ever. /s
I haven’t noticed any more ‘hard’ to the leftard [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] going on. They’ve been using ‘Guns’ to buy votes since FDR. There was a massive re-alignment between In-Person vs Mail-in voting patterns compared to 2020 though.
PLEASE GOD...let the dems persist in their silliness. they have so completely shit the bed that i cannot see them ever winning anything again if they do not make some radical changes to their entire schtick...which i simply do not see happening. they are too self absorbed, smug, pious and vain. they just got their teeth kicked in. we learned VERY CLEARLY that there are NO BLUE STATES ONLY BLUE CITIES. even california had a massive shift. that ANYONE thinks gavin newsom has a chinaman's chance at national office make me guffaw. his BS don't play except in san fran, portland seattle boston and new york. everyone else sees him for what he is...an oily douchenozzle panderer
Polls Find GOP Inching Right, While Democrats Go Hard Left
I still remember that article that Reason did on studies that showed that young women were lurching left and young men were careening right, only to print a followup a week or so later saying there were problems with the study, and there was nothing to worry about, because young men weren’t moving right.
In 2021, evolutionary biologist Colin Wright shared a cartoon showing him as a center-left liberal on the political spectrum circa 2008. In the following years, those to his left sprinted farther left, dragging the center with them. Without moving, Wright found himself on the right.
And I've seen lefties screeching about how this is precisely backwards, don't believe your lying eyes.
LOL. How does a party that fully embraced corporate wokeism and totally ignored class consciousness get accused of veering "hard to the left" unless the meanings of "left" and "right" are no longer anything remotely the same as they were just 20 years ago.
"But political movements that sharply veer from most voters without making serious efforts to persuade them—that instead rely on censoring or shaming those who disagree—" lead to populist blowhards like trump getting elected twice.
FTFY.
If the conservatives no longer have any real problem with same sex marriage (generally speaking), but more identify as "extremely conservative" on social issues, then doesn't that mean that the whole issue of same sex marriage has been rendered more or less a non-issue? Wouldn't that indicate by objective measure that there's been at least some shift toward social liberalism even among the social conservatives?
How can year-over-year "self identification" even be a meaningful measure of anything in an environment where issues which were fundamental and at the core of liberalism (free speech, due process, individual sovereignty) are now considered by the left to be somewhere between "reactionary" and "fascist"?
One thing rings true in all this, that the more extreme wing is the loudest about accusing the other side of extremism, but that might just be the left running the Marxist/Stalinist playbook which includes a basic strategy of starting any major move by first accusing the opposition of whatever it is you're about to launch. Most recently, organized campaigns of misinformation/disinformation including active complicity by the "reputable" media since they've spent 20+ years dragging any outlet that doesn't carry their water as unreliable and propagandist (with a minor assist since so many right-leaning outlets have been almost as bad as MSNBC in that department).
If the conservatives no longer have any real problem with same sex marriage (generally speaking)
They do. For one, it's not a marriage.
Two dudes can be wedded for tax purposes (and that's about it), but they can never ever be married. That defies the explicit definition of the term. The term "same sex marriage" itself is an oxymoron. The fact that you even have to qualify the word "marriage" should tell you that you're not operating in reality when you use it. It's like "meat-eating vegan." Nope.
Now, while conservatives may be more or less indifferent to two weird guys cosplaying a sex kink fantasy in the privacy of their own home - they DO have a problem with it being normalized and encouraged. And they especially have a problem when their weird turns creepy and they want to bring children into their gay sex kink fantasy world. Which, as we're seeing, is leading a large part of the cultural pushback against LGBT pedo these days.
Two dudes sodomizing each other behind closed doors? Gross, but at least it's behind closed doors. Two dudes making out in public - that'll draw conservative scowls. Two dudes effectively kidnapping and brainwashing a child - that's getting dangerously close to drawing conservative guns.
So, be real careful about your claims that conservatives "no longer have a problem with same sex marriage." You keep your kinks to yourself in your bedroom (or better yet, your bedroom closet where it belongs) - you'll be fine. You keep up with this pride-to-pedo garbage, and you're already seeing conservatism yank back the reigns on that nonsense.
When the Dems tried to float the Disinformation Governance Board, they lost me completely. Even to float the idea that the gov't is the arbiter of what can and can't be communicated is completely abhorrent; lose the First Amendment and lose all freedoms. I'm actually sad that this is not made a larger issue. The authoritarians wrap themselves in social justice, but forget that whatever freedom is lost, can be turned around (and history shows will be turned around) on them.