I Did Business With China, and America Won
Everyone benefited when I manufactured my invention in China, but Americans benefited more.

Democrats and Republicans might not seem to agree on much these days. But when it comes to trade, they chant "China trade bad, tariffs good" in stereo, even as the data show the exact opposite.
For 15 years, I was responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in Chinese imports entering the United States. I invented two enduring products—the "Backpack Beach Chair" and the "Magna Cart" portable hand truck—that can be found in Costco and other stores to this day.
Let's use the Magna Cart to illustrate how America made billions while China made crumbs. The Chinese factory charged me $10 for a cart that cost them $9 to manufacture. U.S. retailers bought it from me for $15, then sold it to consumers for $30.
To recap: The factory made $1, I made $5, and retailers made $15, minus freight and U.S. tariffs.
The freight costs went to shipping lines, U.S. railroads, truckers, warehouses, and America's highest-paid union workers—longshoremen at the Port of Los Angeles. As for those tariffs: Do the Chinese actually pay them, as former President Donald Trump claims? That would be illegal, as U.S. Customs charges tariffs only to the "importer of record," which must be a U.S. entity. The monies collected go directly to Uncle Sam and retailers add them to their cost of goods, as with any other expense.
So each Magna Cart created $21 in profits, of which 95 percent went into American pockets. Selling 5 million carts meant a $100 million gain to the U.S. economy. Yet the official trade statistics framed that as a $75 million addition to the trade deficit.
After being fed a daily diet of such misinformation, is it any wonder Americans aren't so warm on trade with China?
Wouldn't American profits be even higher if these things were made in the U.S.A? That's a big no, because many products simply wouldn't exist. My original plan had been to manufacture in the United States. Then I saw the factory quotes, and I realized my babies would have to retail for more than $100. Thanks to China, tens of millions of Americans can now carry their chairs and gear to the beach with ease, and move heavy loads without tweaking their backs for under $40. (It used to be $30. Sigh.)
So why can't we move all that manufacturing to other low-wage countries? Because only China has the massive workforce (800 million strong), the infrastructure, and the natural resources to supply 380 million Americans (plus 7.6 billion others globally) with every gizmo and gadget imaginable.
The nearly $500 billion that America imports annually from China enriches our economy by trillions. The math is so simple, you'd think even politicians could understand it.
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How much do you make when China copies your design and floods the market with it?
Oh, you don’t make anything important, so that didn’t happen
So wait, you're saying that the US government is too incompetent and/or powerless to block those copycats, but that same incompetent powerless government can block the originals?
He is saying that China openly commits theft of not just design Ip but manufacturing IP. Irad costs get spreads over the number of units as part of cost of goods sold. China doesn't have to pay these costs as they steal the designs. Meanwhile domestic suppliers get hit with increased COGS through less sales and a market flooded with competitors advantaged through theft.
The mob used to steal cigarette trucks and resale cigs at a discount. This isn't a free market no matter how much you want to believe it is.
Tariffs don't make it freer, and they don't address IP theft.
It's like fighting fires by throwing Hawaiian pizzas at it. Sure, they're not real pizzas, no one's going to object, but it doesn't do squat for fighting the fire.
The important question is whether it’s worth doing business with a self admitted enemy that blatantly steals from us like that. When it’s so much easier to move our business down the way to any of dozens of other countries that don’t pull that shit.
Half the commenters here act like it’s China or nothing. It’s not.
Seems like a pretty collectivist way to look at it. They aren't stealing IP from "us", but from the companies who decide to do business over there. The companies know the risks and decide to do it anyway. It's not a good situation, but if they decide that is a worthwhile cost/risk, what are you going to do?
Not do business with China. We should completely uncouple our economy with theirs. They have positioned themselves as our archenemy.
Eggsackly
Move production to which countries? Be specific. And then educate yourself as to why that country(s) can’t handle large scale manufacturing. You need the factories, the workforce, the highways, the power grid, the natural resources and the gigantic mega-ports that can handle 1,300 ft long container ships. A NO answer to any of the above make that country a non-starter. The smartest logistics minds in the world have been studying this for for decades, and for countless thousands of products the choice remains China or nothing.
It will take some time. I never said this could all happen tomorrow. Ot comes down to this; either China needs a different government, or we cut economic ties.
Continuing to ignore the ChiCom threat is suicide. Case closed.
It will take many decades at the earliest. We will all be dead by then. In the meantime your home and everyone else’s will be devoid of countless items that we all count on. So what kind of government should China switch to? Most Chinese lead happy lives. Do you realize that millions of homes in Beijing and Shanghai— two of the largest cities in the world – – cost far more than the average US home? Colossal traffic jams are filled with nice new automobiles and many luxury cars. Such incredible wealth cannot be created under oppressive communism. Your cartoonish views of life in China is shared by countless millions of other people who have never visited thete, and whose views are shaped entirely by a media with an agenda.
Is this a sarc sock?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/16/us-china-trade-deal-intellectual-property-protection-benefits-beijing.html
Hey dumdum.
So you doubled down on ignore all the bad acts china actually commits, yay cheap shit! Got it.
You like being advantaged at the expense of others.
re: fire and Hawaiian pizzas - that's a really creative analogy. Do you mind if I steal that?
But companies are free to do business in China or not and they mostly continue to do so. Which suggests it's still economically worthwhile for them even with the IP risks and such.
Which is not to say it isn't a problem. But it's not like anyone is forcing companies to risk their IP by manufacturing in China.
Good for the American consumer. For the American worker, not so much.
Ahh, so the point of production is not goods to buy, but counting jobs?
FYI, the American manufacturing sector produces more dollars of goods than ever before, adjusted for inflation.
Also FYI, it's a damned good thing fewer people have manufacturing jobs, because that frees them up for more productive work.
And perhaps you didn't RTFA, but none of those products would have been made at all in America, because they are the cheap kind of stuff that highly productive factories and workers can't make cheaply enough to be worth selling.
You're another economic ignoramus.
""Ahh, so the point of production is not goods to buy, but counting jobs?""
Who's counting jobs? I'm counting the money an American worker is making.
I have said many times that cheap Chinese goods have enabled poor people to buy more. It's great for the consumer.
And which money is that, since the pay for such shit manufacturing jobs would be shit? What next, have American workers making straw hats or painting faces on plastic dolls?
You're a damned central planner if you think you know best what jobs Americans should offer and take. You either believe in free markets, or you are a central planner.
You're a fool of you think China doesn’t work to destroy American industry.
China exports goods to every country in the world, and ships more to Europe than the US. Such typical Yankee arrogance to think China is singularly obsessed with destroying US industry.
Really? Because that’s what the Chinese say. And they aren’t ’singularly obsessed’. Surprise, they can multi task.
You should really educate yourself as to the ChiCom stated agenda for the US.
Another question for you buddy. How much in federal aid or grants are we sending to help companies do business in China?
Lol. The ignorance is believing this one case applies to all cases and using this one case to justify ignoring all the other bad acts going on in the market in relation to China.
But then again, it mist be Nobel prize level economics to justify 300B a year in theft to get cheaper, low quality shit.
Show the connection between putting crap factories in the US with crap workers making a crap wage, and anything to do with IP theft or national security.
Your economic ignorance is as bad as Trump and every other central planning economist. You know what's best for everybody. You can tell them what factories to build, and somehow they're going to hire American workers at America wages yet still manage to charge so little.
Learn some basic economics. Learn some basic arithmetic while you're at it.
Again, triple down on trying to ignore the 95% of the issues to focus on the 5% your argument benefits from.
True Sea Lion behavior.
This has to be a sarc sock. Same dumbass retarded ignorance. Same game playing. Same insults.
It is clear you don't understand shit about markets and blindly push the false free trade = cheap Chinese shit narrative.
You keep avoiding the actual economic issues as shown above. A level of economics that removes all variables except the one you want to prove your knowledge on. Lol.
God damn man. Read a fucking book.
I’m also wondering if it’s a Sarc sock. Like the KAR sock.
Yeah, he went and made a whole Substack just to troll you guys.
Is it really so hard to believe that there are two people on here who have similar views about trade with China (that happen to be those traditionally espoused by libertarians)?
More than one person expressing traditional libertarian views?
Nah. Easier to accuse them of being me, call them a leftist, and launch into rehearsed arguments.
‘Rehearsed’. Cunt, you repeat the same tired shit over and over. Sometimes the same things multiple times a day.
You’re the definition of unoriginal.
No, but Sarc is a worthless shitweasel with no friends and no life. All he does is get blackout drunk, pass out on his piss soaked alley, and shitpost here. So yes, he would absolutely create multiple socks to spew his inane bulkshit here. Plus, the writing has similarities.
Also, an article like this is usually magnet for Sarc, but he’s nowhere to be found. So this lends credence that SGT is a Sarc sock. Making the same bad arguments and shitposting endlessly.
I agree with one thing, your Nom de Plume starts with "Stupid".
First, the beach chair case is a full demonstration of stupid. He had to go to China for manufacturing so he could be competitive with other products made in China. Duh.
Second, this is a ripple effect in manufacturing. We moved a substantial part of the supply chain to China. Individual cases will nearly always lead to China being cheaper because if you make it here you still have to bring the parts and materials from China. The only way to bring production back here competitively is with tariffs than over time drive the supply chain back here.
Three, In the event of war, counties that can't make the stuff they need lose. This stupid beach chair of course is not necessary to life, but the larger supply chain for the things used to make what is not so trivial IS necessary.
Fourth, I can't believe you are so stupid as not to understand this. I have to therefore assume you are fundamentally dishonest, motivated by your own personal gain only.
Nothing you're saying is blatantly wrong (except maybe the "stupid" jab), but you left some stuff out.
Your plan is to use government force to redistribute wealth for the benefit of the nation at the cost of the individual, which is central planning; kind of a libertarian hang up.
If we brought manufacturing back to the US with this central planning idea, either those goods will cost much more, at the expense of the American consumer or American workers will need to be paid Chinese wages, at the expense of the American worker.
Tens of millions of Americans use backpack chairs to make their visits to the beach, campgrounds and outdoor concerts more enjoyable.
Why is that stupid to you?
And why are costs driven up in the US?
I get it's easy to attack the current thing and ignore everything done to create it as that would be hard to fix but you're the moron starting and ending this with the current tariff and letting the bad actors off the hook for every other bad action.
The dockworkers, truck drivers, fulfillment center workers, wholesalers, retailers, and retail workers make money.
That's the magic of money and free markets, which so many know-it-all central planners think is treason to the American factory worker.
Markets are what make people rich, not central planners. Central planning has a piss poor track record, ranging from catastrophic nation-destroying to abysmal hasn't-failed-yet.
The entirety of your dozen posts in this thread is bumper sticker narratives. Want to point that out.
That's pretty rich, Jessica, because you're the most pathetically active person here.
Another Sarc sock?
Where are the market forces with, say, dock workers?
Market forces would demand automation. Every other country does so. We do not. Because they will strike and break machines if installed.
So...where is the market force?
"...so, where is the market force[s]?"
Suppressed by a government enforced monopoly on labor supply. If the longshoremans union didn't have the exclusive right to supply workers, ports would have been automated years ago. Well, that and using government zoning power to also control how ports are built. Notice a pattern here? In this case, government is the cause of the issue, free(er) markets are the solution.
Good for the American consumer. For the American worker, not so much.
American workers are American consumers.
They don’t consume much when there aren’t any jobs.
I have a job and I'm a consumer and I'm American. How about you? Should my (or our) hard earned wages be transferred to some would-be American manufacturing employee?
You’re not getting it.
That's what my prom date said.
They/them did?
Welcome to Secret Socialism - where everything is made up and the facts don't matter!
To recap: The factory made $1, I made $5, and retailers made $15, minus freight and U.S. tariffs.
How much did American workers make? Oh, that's right: zero.
Not true, they were able to buy his crap with welfare money.
Zero for not making anything? Sounds about right.
Way to miss my point. I'm saying that if Mr. Welsh had made his products in American, American workers would have made money. Instead, he used slave labor from China. But hey, he made his money so what does he care?
And Mr. Welsh, who had actual skin in the game, says he couldn't have made them cheaply enough to sell. How many workers get paid for producing nothing, other than government bureaucrats?
What makes you the financial wizard who knows so much more than Mr. Welsh? What kind of central planning genius are you, to offer so much wisdom where every other central planner has failed?
Do the companies that lose roughly 300B a year due to theft have skin in the game?
For a beach chair or hand truck? No.
Yes? They couldn't lose to IP theft if they weren't a going concern. That gives them the proverbial skin in the game.
As others have pointed out, we've heard about IP theft from Chinese facilities for decades now. No one opens a factory there unaware of the risk.
I'll note the problem is probably just as bad for Chinese-owned businesses. They likely steal IP from each other all the time. And oh yes, they have IP about designs and manufacturing processes worth stealing.
What kind of central planning genius are you, to offer so much wisdom where every other central planner has failed?
Central planner? So, by criticizing Mr. Welsh for doing business with Communist China I am proving myself to be a Communist? That’s some impressive mental gymnastics you are displaying.
There are things more important than economics. Doing business with an evil regime is itself evil, even if it makes you a profit.
And Mr. Welsh, who had actual skin in the game, says he couldn’t have made them cheaply enough to sell.
Incorrect, he said the opportunity cost was too high for him, which informs us as to where his values are.
Hey we’re all friends here. You can call me Kerry.
> ... I’m saying that if Mr. Welsh had made his products in American, American workers would have made money...
So... uhm... no American workers worked the docks to unload those products? no American workers worked the warehouses that housed and distributed those products? none drove trucks, planes, or trains hauling those products? none stocked them on the shelves in any stores? none rang them up at the cash register? none delivered them to doorsteps for Amazon?
Is that so? Mr. Welsh not only had Chinese firms manufacture the products, but also replaced all the American workers on this side of the Pacific thru offload, logistics, and all the way to sales and delivery with Chinese workers too??
I am so enjoying reading these comments —especially the most ignorant ones. For decades US retailers have employed thousands of inspectors to constantly check on factory and worker conditions. We sold to so many retailers that rarely a week passed without a highly intrusive inspection. FYI the lowest rung manual labor jobs typically include meals and dormitory housing, which enables Chinese laborers to save more of their pay each month than their western counterparts.
FYI the lowest rung manual labor jobs typically include meals and dormitory housing, which enables Chinese laborers to save more of their pay each month than their western counterparts.
MOAR CHINK SLAVES!
And more money to fuel ChiCom efforts to spread their totalitarian influence around the globe.
OK, so tell me when the last time Chinese troops were stationed outside China? And when the last time China was involved in a major war? Now tell me the last time the United States didn’t have troop stationed around the world, nor wasn’t involved in a war. The answer is the US military has been engaged in combat every day of our lives. For decades the US has been helping topple foreign leaders around the world. And what has China been doing during that time? They’ve been quietly and peacefully investing in manufacturing capacity and taking over the world’s markets. The Chinese middle class today is larger than the entire US population. China has become so prosperous that many of you couldn’t even afford to live there. And that wouldn’t be true in any other ‘communist’ country.
China is building military bases around the world. And China is more fascistic than Maoist anymore, and I wouldn’t be touting their economy. They have MAJOR problems.
But you’re clearly a booster for Xi. Who is working towards CHINA’s economic and military dominance around the globe. FFS, all their Party doctrines state that, and their middle class in Hong Kong is certainly enjoying their freedom and prosperity.
So you can go on being a mouthpiece for Xi, we’re not buying it.
Yeah, definitely Chinese propaganda bot.
More proof that Reason's sugar daddy cares about cheap labor more than anything else.
They didn't pay the freight and retail workers?
The retail worker would still get paid (probably poorly) if the item was stocked or not. I suppose you could scale that up to a Walmart store since it's a lot of Chinese. But I hear Walmart employees are so poor they are on food stamps.
The retail worker would still get paid (probably poorly) if the item was stocked or not.
I guess it depends on how many items sell, but OK. Let's ignore the retail store workers for this argument. There's still warehouse workers and truck drivers etc. Someone has to be getting paid.
I will concede it helps some sectors. It can help with job count and all jobs do get paid something.
"The retail worker would still get paid..."
Uh, no. On the margin, not having a Magna Cart to sell means some tiny fraction of workers are no longer needed. It would be very hard to measure the change but it's there.
American workers are among the highest paid in the world because their factories are among the most productive. Making cheap stuff pays cheap wages. You think those workers would put up with jobs paying what they are worth to produce his cheap stuff?
Job count is a terrible measure of an industry. How about we bring back elevator boys, telephone switchboard operators, and put 90% of the population back on the farm where they were in 1776?
You either believe in free enterprise, or you're a statist who knows what's best for everybody else, and you'll be a socialist tomorrow.
""Making cheap stuff pays cheap wages. ""
This was my point above, so I guess you too are another economic ignoramus.
It could be Eric himself. Lacks understanding of the actual issues and focuses on small segments of thr discussion to dismiss the rest of it.
You could be sarc and jeffy, the way you insult and change topics and never address the actual issue.
Rebut it? You can't, and your lack of trying shows it. I haven't seen a single comment here rebutting a single fact in the article, nothing but sneers and innuendo and nonsense. Not a lick of common sense, not a lick of Econ 101.
Hey buddy, you're the one mirroring sarcs economic ignorance this morning lol.
The article is useless. I can prove bandaid stop someone from bleeding out by showing it works on a paper cut. Doesn't mean it works if a leg is chopped off.
You're rushing to talk about one example to dismiss the entirety of the issues regarding markets and China.
It is quite retarded.
No, your point assumed American workers would get paid American wages and produce Chinese-priced goods.
Math don't work that way, neither does economics.
Why don't you invest some of your own money in such a profitable enterprise, since you know so much that everyone with skin in the game is blind to?
""No, your point assumed American workers would get paid American wages and produce Chinese-priced goods.""
Not at all.
You can't produce Chinese-priced goods on American pay scales. I would never assume otherwise.
You might be able to produce Chinese-priced goods on American pay scales, if you totally automated the process and only one American is hired to watch the robots work. But then there's only one American getting paid on any scale.
Making cheap stuff pays cheap wages. Right?
How good is cheap wages to the American worker?
> How good is cheap wages to the American worker?
It's better than no wages for the American workers prices out of the labor force by minimum wages.
Having inexpensive goods is good for American consumers.
Having goods produced by someone else frees up American workers to do more productive jobs. Given how low unemployment is and how much per capita income has grown over time, it seems workers in fact find more productive and better paid things to do. It's a win all around.
Here's another way to look at it. Assume making Magna Carts is only worth $20/hour. That's how much profit a worker generates building them. Further assume American factory workers get paid around $40/hour (I think that's roughly right). Who benefits by shifting workers from a $40/hour job to a $20/hour job? Certainly not the worker. Why would you want to do that?
I can tell you. Because you think can pay American workers $40/hour to assemble the carts. It's possible but it would likely require a much larger capital investment in CNCs and robots. I have no doubt they looked into this and the numbers just didn't work, the market didn't support that sort of capital.
Can you even estimate the costs of regulations of something built in the US as compared to China. Oh wait. You think labor wages are the only costs lol.
Designers and retailers aren't workers?
You forgot how much consumer surplus Americans got (that is, how much over $30 they value the Magna Cart). Consumer surplus is $0 for the marginal buyer and I can easily imagine some people would have paid $60 or more for a cart but didn't have to because retailers sold them so cheaply.
So the full accounting is factory made $1, you made $5, retailers made $15-minus, customers benefited to the tune of $0-30+.
"How much did American workers make?"
As others have mentioned, American manufacturing workers made zero because they didn't make the cart. Truckers, longshoremen, store workers all made something out of the $15 retailer gross margin.
The other way of looking at it is American workers and consumers would make $0 if you tried to make this in the US because you couldn't make it cheaply enough to sell for $30. And even if you did, you'd have to take workers off some other job to do it, some other job where they could add a lot more value, and get paid accordingly, per hour.
Retail workers are paid, dockworkers are paid, truckers are paid, owners and designers are paid. And then they spend money in the US.
JD Vance is wrong about the backpack beach chair.
He initially spoke highly of the Magna Cart but apparently a staffer had misspelled it as MAGA Cart. Once he realized his error he pivoted to slandering childless cat ladies. Just wrong on multiple fronts.
""News broke this weekend that China-backed hackers have compromised the wiretap systems of several U.S. telecom and internet providers, likely in an effort to gather intelligence on Americans.
The wiretap systems, as mandated under a 30-year-old U.S. federal law, are some of the most sensitive in a telecom or internet provider’s network, typically granting a select few employees nearly unfettered access to information about their customers, including their internet traffic and browsing histories. ""
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/the-30-year-old-internet-backdoor-law-that-came-back-to-bite/ar-AA1rQGNb?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=4753eb40490a4a18851f2980573ccda8&ei=23
But they sell us cheap goods.
I wonder if it will be like the OPM data breach, where they hired Chinese programmers working remotely out of China to do database management, and then just handed them the keys to everything. Lower level people were screaming that it was insane to do, but upper management insisted.
And then were shocked, shocked I say, when it turned out Chinese intelligence took advantage of the arrangement.
A lot of IT security can be neatly bypassed by just buying off upper management, and having them throw open the door.
Upper management sometimes throws open the door because proper security is a hassle.
And the reason why American manufacturing costs so much more is...what? How much of that is not having to follow restrictions on energy usage, safety and industrial waste regs that American factories cannot avoid?
You are contributing to enriching a regime with scant regard for civil liberties, and is becoming increasingly aggressive.
Which then brings up the question of many of the people making your product are in that factory by choice?
Regulation doesn't help, but American workers are more productive than Chinese workers because American factories are more productive.
You know where that so-called trade deficit comes from, what it actually measures? It intentionally is asymmetrical. That "deficit" is what foreigners invest in this country. They make money selling us products, then invest that profit in American businesses. In other words, they think American businesses are more profitable than the ones in their own countries.
Regulation doesn’t help, but American workers are more productive than Chinese workers because American factories are more productive.
I work for a manufacturing giant that manufactures mainly in China, some in Mexico and a little in North America. If American factories were "more productive" we would probably be manufacturing "mainly in North America".
That’s would be difficult. Given how much productivity is lost to union contracts and government regulations. Especially government regulations in democrat states.
Reason hired Chinese bots to write articles now? Looks like Chinese fanfic. Totally fake.
My wife is totally bumming out that she’s married to a bot.
Sugar daddy must be getting desperate. He's out here inventing people that don't exist outside of Reason/Reason.org to spew Chinese government propaganda pieces.
Reason is so desperate they are doing infomercials now?
Why doncha refute the content?
I did moron. Unlike you I look at the entire market and not one example as I turn a blind eye. Lol. God damn you idiots.
And why is it so fucking important to make everything in China? If manufacturing is going to be sent offshore, why pick the country run by the greatest enemy of freedom on the whole planet?
They have convinced themselves that if they yell free market loud enough it will make it true.
Yes, change the subject you did, just like sarc and jeffy.
Rebut the article. Try it. You do plenty of other articles and comments, but not economics, because that would force you to admit Trump isn't always right.
Rebuff what? Are you this fucking dumb? It is you mirroring the ignorance of sarc lol.
When analyzing global trade, you want me to focus on a single example not even representative of .00001% of the market? Are you truly this fucking dumb?
Using this example to dismiss the actual macro issues is retarded but common amongst those screaming free trade while ignoring macro issues. Congrats buddy. You're as good on this topic as sarc. Literally. Lol.
He writes like Sarc.
You mean the infomercial guy that quotes vague, handwaving figures?
Let's recap the recap:
So, Stupid, do you think he gets a receipt from the factory in China saying "$1" or do you think the receipt from the factory says "$10, but don't worry, we're only making $1 in profit."... for 15 yrs.? If the former, why would he try to make up the other 90% of the bill except to be dishonest or deceive people.
Nobody does business like this. He's being deliberately dishonest.
Similarly, he says "America made billions" and then goes on to detail how 5 million hand carts only totals $100 million, leaving the other $900M just to get to the first billion up in the air.
Again, this guy isn't even a second-rate accountant. He's isn't even a first-rate infomercial salesman.
Calculating the factory cost of a low-tech product isn’t rocket science. You simply weigh each component and multiply it by the per-pound material cost, which is similar worldwide. The factory was my partner for many years and they showed me their costs and margins. And I used the 5M number because it’s simpler for the reader than 12,567,432. The Backpack Chair has been in major retailers for a quarter-century and I’m told remains the top selling sporting goods item at Costco. The cart has only been out there for 18 years. The math adds up.
And I used the 5M number because it’s simpler for the reader than 12,567,432.
You realize that cutting a number in half out of honesty doesn't make you more believable or honest, right?
The math adds up.
Not for us it doesn't. It can't. Because the infomercial salesman is admitting that if the actual number is 12, he'll tell you it's 5 to make things simpler and that you should just take his word on what he hears from Costco and China.
To say nothing of the fact that I've been a monthly Costco shopper for more than a decade and, while I've seen the backpack chair maybe once or twice out in public or on a youtube video or something, I've never once seen it in a Costco. Maybe they told you it was the Top Selling sporting goods item at Costco in Poughkeepsie because they're just as stand up and forthright as you are.
Once again, if your own accountant reported numbers to you like this, you'd fire his ass. Dishonest, retarded, or both, pick one.
Reason created a Kerry bot to prop up its cheap labor uber alles "China is great for America" CCP propaganda.
He writes like he takes it up the ass from Xi.
There was a similar cost breakdown of an iPhone. China got a few bucks for assembling, and possibly some of the case. South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia, and some other countries got more for components which were shipped to China. US companies got the lion's share, and that's even if you stop at the wholesale level and don't count retail profits.
You seem to be ignorantly under the impression that the only discussion is based around labor rates. Why? So you can ignore all the other actual issues involved with China? This seems to be the go to for the econ 101 majors here defending market manipulation and theft as "free trade."
You seem to be more interested in changing the subject than rebutting it.
If you want to talk theft or national security, be honest and call it that. Don't try to hide it by changing the subject or launching strawmen. Be a fucking grownup, instead of copying sarc and jeffy.
Is the subject trade with China. Yes or no?
Or is the conversation solely this single example as proof the entire market is fine as you seem to be stating?
When you're desperate to dismiss 99.9999% of the discussion to win an argument it says more about your argument than anything else.
From what I’ve read of your comments I’m with you on trade. Hope that doesn’t mean you have to change your mind now.
Quit samefagging, you drunk bitch.
So why can't we move all that manufacturing to other low-wage countries?
Pick your fucking cotton yourself.
Not a bad idea at all
>>Everyone benefited when I manufactured my invention in China
in this scenario you benefitted first and only by being American
China's getting 'crumbs' but yet their wealth has increased exponentially.
Some folks made money on Enron.
Some folks make money off the democrat party hollowing out our economy too.
Step 3: Profit!
Absolutely. At least for Party members in good standing that help advance important Party member candidates and narratives.
I believe Bill Clinton did business with China and also made money.
Eric Swallwell did business with China and totally got laid!
I am a free trader, but Hezbollah's Grim Beeper episode gave me some pause.
Hezbollah should use more of those beepers, and give a bunch to Hamas too.
And aside from all the ins-and-outs of the global supply chain (which is a term that’s very similar to “the cloud”– it merely means ‘someone else’s computer’.. .the global supply chain is ‘some other country’s good graces’)
It didn't give me pause.
Those pagers from Israel work well.
Just ask any Hamas terrorist pig.
So why can’t we move all that manufacturing to other low-wage countries? Because only China has the massive workforce (800 million strong), the infrastructure, and the natural resources to supply 380 million Americans (plus 7.6 billion others globally) with every gizmo and gadget imaginable.
There’s a 5,000 word article exploring this. The idea that America doesn’t have the natural resources to supply its 333,000,000 Americans (not sure where we get the 380m number from, although we did take in a few tens of millions over the last six or so weeks so, maybe that’s it… anyhoo) is spurious. And aside from all the ins-and-outs of the global supply chain (which is a term that’s very similar to “the cloud”– it merely means ‘someone else’s computer’.. .the global supply chain is ‘some other country’s good graces’) there’s a lot to talk about regarding resources and employment vis-a-vis automation vs China which has labor cheap enough that you don’t need it, hence the 800,000,000 workers making sense…
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask what America might look like if we could remove all (or most) of the domestic barriers making local manufacturing so expensive– and even impossible in some cases, but you ended up charging $32.50 for your product instead of $30.00, and at the end of it, you had a reinvigorated local manufacturing, mining, raw-materials processing sector.
“But what if we’re manufacturing products that require natural raw materials and commodities that only China has in quantity?” I hear you ask.
Then you can import those materials from China just like we import your Magna Cart.
“But what about the labor increase required to manufacture all those goods that we used to produce in China?” I hear you ask.
I’m imagining a world where there’s so much job opportunity in the United States that taking in large numbers if immigrants begins to make sense again…
“But… I thought you were anti-immigrant… I’m confused!” I’m sure you are. I’m just not keen on taking in millions of low-wage, low skill workers and handing them perpetual welfare when my streets look like this.
It's actually laughably sad about how serious this article is.
Ron Popeil's dead and the ShamWow/SlapChop guy has too many other products to market so they went with the guy who made the hand cart version of the Flex-o-ladder as the spokesperson for Reason Brand™ Libertarianism.
WTF is a Flex-o-ladder?
It's been on the market for over a quarter century!!!!!!
They stock them in every Home Depot!!!!!
They sold 8M units, well, 19,457,001 units, but 8M is a more convenient number.
I know, not knowing what a Flex-o-ladder is, you have no way of knowing any of the details I've laid out but you can just take my word for it because I've been so honest with you... on the internet.
FEMA is broke because they spent a bunch of money on illegals.
"I Did Business With China, and America Won."
That's what Tampon Tim wants you to believe.
"Backpack Beach Chair" and the "Magna Cart" portable hand truck
Are we going to get Mike Lindell and Dr. Oz's take on trade with China too or do they not count?
America Won
I've been consistently told that nobody wins trade wars.
The whole article... numerous "Let's suppose we're right within an order of magnitude and that nobody actually making $9 would claim to make $1 as a negotiating tactic." claims but not a single link. Like the thing is a near-complete work of fiction.
What would you like a link to?
The honest article where you post all your receipts and outside references honestly and up front for everyone to see rather than asking *me* "What would I have to tell you to believe me?" on the backend like a Grade C fraudster or Nigerian Prince scammer.
Go look at the Magna Cart "website".
"Premium website Magna Cart"... It looks like it was made yesterday, along with Kerry Welsh. Look up "his" "company" WelCom Products. This entire thing looks like a hoax. Kerry Welsh doesn't exist apart from a blurb at Reason Foundation.
Kerry Welsh is a retired entrepreneur and longtime Reason Foundation board member. He sold his company WelCom Products in 2013 to Las Vegas billionaire Phil Ruffin who—in a touch of irony—is best friends and business partners with Donald Trump.
Professor Terguson: “Rather than waste your time with a lot of useless theories, we’re going to jump right in with both feet and create a fictional company from the ground up.”
"Thornton Melon": So we aren’t going to learn any actual theory *and* we aren’t going to get any factual experience setting up a company that other people can reference. Instead, we're going to get a vague lecture on how you think things do, or should, work without any grounding in reality?
> The math is so simple, you'd think even politicians could understand it.
Republicans: Democrats that can do math.
Libertarians: Republicans that give a shit about the math.
When you have major Republican presidential candidate who confuses spending deficits with trade deficits, it's clear that the Republicans just don't give a shit about the math. They would rather impoverish Americans to support their union buddies than pull out a calculator and realize what their unionist trade policies are doing to the American consumer, without even the courtesy of a reach around.
Math is leftist.
Amd you’re a worthless drunk that gets spitroasted by two Marxist pedophiles.
Once the Jesus Caucus Tee Party is tossed back in the gutter, and the LP is able to spoiler-press repeal the individual income tax, you watch. I'll bet money a great hue and cry is raised to the effect that raising tariff rates and shortening the free list is THE key to 'Murrican prosperity. That's the way it was BEFORE the communist income tax and Harrison Act became enslaving looter whips, chains and calls for conscription and war.
^ Authentic Frontier Gibberish
Good article. As expected the usual suspects waged the same tired attacks, proudly displayed their willful ignorance of economics, conflated manufacturing employment with manufacturing output, and shamelessly demanded leftist government solutions.
Must be Tuesday or some other day that ends in ‘y’.
Yesssss
You’re samefagging again.
Manufacturing in China, or where ever, is fine AS LONG AS you are not outsourcing critical technologies like microchips and other hi-tech IP.
Let them make all the vacuum cleaners, lawn chairs, socks, underwear, sunglasses, garbage toys, etc. that they want and that the US would rather train people up for high-tech production in the USA.
Having a strong manufacturing base is only a good idea when done with thought and not just a strong manufacturing base for the sake of it. Look at all the things that have to be manufactured that are not game changers and, if needed, could be spooled up and done if some trade partner cut us off. Ok, so they stop making cheap lawn chairs and cheap coffee makers and cheap cheap CHEAP toys for Happy Meals. What you don't want is high tech electronics or electronic components being outsourced and cut-off.
The Chinese factory charged me $10 for a cart that cost them $9 to manufacture. U.S. retailers bought it from me for $15, then sold it to consumers for $30.
To recap: The factory made $1, I made $5, and retailers made $15, minus freight and U.S. tariffs.
What a gross obfuscation of the actual issue. The REAL issue is right there in that very first line: “The Chinese factory charged me $10 for a cart that cost them $9 to manufacture.”
Why doesn’t the American factory charge/cost that?
Answer: because it can’t. By law. Because of the gross amounts of artificial overhead placed on the factory (ie. the producer) in a dozen different forms and ways.
It used to be able to, but a century of Democrat meddling (“to help”) has made America one of the least desirable places to want to go hang out a shingle. Because here’s the dirty little secret that Democrats don’t want to admit: you can have a fair/equitable society, or you can have a functioning one.
You can’t – not ever – have both. China readily accepts this, and has gone with the latter. America keeps trying to have its cake and eat it too.
What a gross obfuscation of the actual issue. The REAL issue is right there in that very first line: “The Chinese factory charged me $10 for a cart that cost them $9 to manufacture.”
yeah, I didn't even touch on that. The factory charged $10 for the cart, with the other $9 going into the engines of the economy, with $1-- presumably going into the pockets of the factory owners.
Imagine if there was an American factory, full of busy little worker bees (even immigrants!!11!!) where $9 of the cost of your Magna Cart went into the pockets of the formerly homeless and opiate-addicted, and the other $1 went into the pocket of [insert American industrialist here]. This guy radically whiffed this argument so bad, that I realized I didn't have the time or the inclination to respond, point-by-point.
It was probably cheaper to manufacture some items in 1938 Germany or 1941 Japan so that would make it ok? We are talking about a country that openly talks about taking us down, invades it's neighbors territory and attacks them when they attempt to access their own land. A country that runs concentration camps for forced labor. At what point do we say it is not ok to outsource a country that is openly our enemy? Hell IBM was being sued for supplying computers to Germany in the 1930s that was eventually used in the war effort, should Apple be thinking about this?
Let's outsource all of our critical infrastructure to China. While we're at it, let's outsource the military's fighters, bombers, and warships to China.
What the heck, their soldiers work for much less than American soldiers...Let's just scrap the U.S. military and get the Chinese to defend us.
What could go wrong!!!
+1 "If you need an economist to make your moral argument, you're doing it wrong."
... and Reason didn't even get a very good economist.
Geez, populists of the world unite! Does everyone subscribe to the Marxist theory of prices? The point of the piece is these products would not exist, but for a lower cost alternative. Prices are set by the market, not by the cost. The author found a market price and created a product he/she could make profitably and everyone in the transaction gained. That is the essence of wealth creation. He could have made them in the US and gone bankrupt without selling a single unit, those laying off all those American workers. Doh!
Yes, foldable hand trucks wouldn't exist except for China:
https://www.milwaukeehandtrucks.com/
People are very selective when they decide what they count as "free market" and what they count as "government subsidized." I don't agree with tariffs on foreign goods, but what we already have amount to tariffs on domestic goods; making much of anything in this country becomes very expensive very quickly thanks to US Government interference in the market.
Two wrongs may not make a right, but maybe, just maybe, the second wrong will help highlight the first wrong and help us to be rid of both.