How Much Will the Major Presidential Candidates Steal From You?
Neither Harris nor Trump has a plan to address national debt, but they dramatically differ on taxation.

We know that taxation is theft, and we also know that whichever political candidate wins the upcoming presidential popularity contest will steal from us. The question is, how much will a President Kamala Harris or a President Donald Trump take—information we need to help us appropriately choose our fate? Fortunately, the candidates have told us something of what they have in mind, sometimes grudgingly, so we can compare their effects on the economy and our personal finances.
You are reading The Rattler from J.D. Tuccille and Reason. Get more of J.D.'s commentary on government overreach and threats to everyday liberty.
Digging Through Verbiage for Details
The Tax Foundation has done the hard work of digging through the servings of word salad issued by the Democratic and Republican parties' chosen standard-bearers this year so that you don't have to. Neither Trump nor Harris is known for being easy to pin down on details, but the Tax Foundation notes the vice president "has sketched out sufficient details of her fiscal and economic agenda for us to provide a preliminary analysis" while her opponent "has floated several tax policy ideas." That's enough to work from for tax purposes, especially given that both have track records—Harris in the Biden administration and Trump when he occupied the White House.
In terms of specifics, the Tax Foundation considers Harris tax proposals, including: increasing the corporate income tax rate from 21 percent to 28 percent; increasing the corporate alternative minimum tax from 15 percent to 21 percent; increasing the top individual income tax rate to 39.6 percent on income above $400,000 for single filers and $450,000 for joint filers; taxing long-term capital gains and qualified dividends at 28 percent; limiting retirement account contributions for high-income taxpayers; and exempting tipped income from income taxation.
Trump proposals analyzed by the Foundation include: making permanent elements of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) regarding individuals, estates, and business tax phaseouts; lowering the corporate tax rate to 15 or 20 percent; eliminating the green energy subsidies in the Inflation Reduction Act; and exempting both Social Security benefits and tips from income taxes. The Foundation also considers Trump's plan to increase some tariffs on Chinese goods to 60 percent; impose a universal tariff of 10 to 20 percent on all imports; and more.
Who Has the Better Tax Ideas?
Whether there's a clear winner here depends on your perspective. If you're a government employee or a fan of the federal behemoth, you'll be cheered to know that "after taking various credits and tax cuts into account, Harris would raise about $1.7 trillion over 10 years on a conventional basis" for federal coffers. Well, sort of: The Tax Foundation also expects her plans to reduce economic growth; once that's taken into account, the 10-year revenue increase would look more like $642 billion.
That adjustment to expectations of increased revenue comes because the tax analysts expect Harris's polices to "reduce long-run GDP by 2.0 percent, the capital stock by 3.0 percent, wages by 1.2 percent, and employment by about 786,000 full-time equivalent jobs." As a result, they see American incomes declining by 1.8 percent in the long run. There's a big "but" to this analysis though, since Harris's plans venture into relatively uncharted territory.
"Our economic estimates likely understate the effects of the Harris tax plan since they exclude two novel and highly uncertain yet large tax increases on high earners and multinational corporations, namely a new minimum tax on unrealized capital gains and a [undertaxed profits rule] consistent with the OECD/G20 global minimum tax model rules."
By contrast, Trump's plans are predicted to decrease federal tax revenue over the 10-year budget window by (roughly) between $1.2 trillion and $1.3 trillion once the effects of all policy interactions are considered. They also could give the economy a positive jolt.
"We estimate the major tax changes proposed by Trump would increase long-run GDP by about 1.5 percent. Permanence for the individual, estate, and business tax components of the TCJA are the largest drivers," adds the Tax Foundation. Again, though, there's a big "but." We have to consider the likelihood that other governments would retaliate against the U.S. for high tariffs and impose similar barriers on U.S. goods.
"Altogether, we estimate the combination of proposed tax and tariff changes, including foreign retaliation, would reduce long-run GDP by nearly 0.2 percent and hours worked by 387,000 full-time equivalent jobs. Both the capital stock and wages would still rise—by 0.3 percent and 0.6 percent, respectively."
Basically, Trump's domestic tax proposals could offer a significant boost to the economy. But this boost is largely offset by his insistence on raising trade barriers that would almost certainly bring a response in-kind from other countries. "Depending on which combination of proposals Trump ultimately pursues, the overall impact on GDP could range from slightly positive to slightly negative for the US economy."
What About Deficits and Debt?
Not taken into account by either major candidate's tax and revenue plans is the federal government's ongoing addiction to spending more than it takes in. For decades, expenditures have exceeded revenues as a percentage of GDP, and that looks unlikely to change for the foreseeable future. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) expects federal spending to increase to 24.9 percent of GDP by 2034 while revenues top out at 18.0 percent of GDP. That's a recipe for rising debt.
The Tax Foundation points out that, by 2065, the national debt is expected to rise from about 122 percent of GDP now to 201 percent. Under Harris's proposals, that number is expected to barely shift, arriving at 200 percent. Trump's plans could take debt to 211 percent of GDP. It's a problem either way.
"We estimate that the U.S. debt held by the public cannot exceed about 200 percent of GDP even under today's generally favorable market conditions," economists with the Penn-Wharton Budget Model warned last year. "Under current policy, the United States has about 20 years for corrective action after which no amount of future tax increases or spending cuts could avoid the government defaulting on its debt." The consequences "would reverberate across the U.S. and world economies."
Both Harris and Trump have us hitting that magic number, with all that entails. For the short term, though, Trump's tax and revenue plans look preferable—especially if he can resist his urge to erect tariff barriers that would spark a trade war.
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"tariff changes, including foreign retaliation, would reduce long-run GDP by nearly 0.2 percent and hours worked by 387,000 full-time equivalent jobs"
Reduce foreigner full-time jobs by 387,000 or what?
Funny how economics goes globalist every-time Trump is involved.
How about a new mental premise to save the USA.
The government is there to ensure Liberty and Justice for all.
It's not there to STEAL from your neighbors and play accounting games in the pursuit of getting you someone else's *earnings* for nothing. Why that just might be a criminal-government and just like every other criminal nation will end up eating itself to death; because STEALING doesn't create sh*t.
I believe they are discussing American lost hours. That can be port workers not unloading more ships, US manufacturing or construction cutting hours/jobs because they are priced out because their forein inputs have increased...
All businesses will be affected. If any material, tool, supplies, or products your business uses or sells (or any other business in your supply chain) are imported, your costs will go up, and some businesses will not be able to bear those increased costs.
They are definitely discussing lost US jobs and work hours - and while a few are attributable to port workers, the vast majority are the downstream effects on US companies when you start cutting off their suppliers.
Tariff's are NOT effective at protecting US jobs.
That’s blasphemy round these here parts.
It's actually a form of retarded thinking.
As-if moving all production over-seas isn't "loosing American Jobs".
This is how dumb media has made everyone.
I've invited you to learn basic economics, things like comparative advantage, and you flatly refused stating that you prefer willful ignorance.
Then you accuse others of retarded thinking?
Dude...
You've proven time and time again you don't understand basic economics.
Even here you ported a tariff on China stops all foreign supply chains and have no concept of supply shift. It is one of the primary weaknesses of these models.
I'll invite you to learn basic common-sense.
Do you think exporting all creation work over-seas be a US job growth plan or a US job killer? Huh... Exporting jobs out of the US........ Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..... Think really hard. /s
No one can discuss economics with you because you’re too stupid and ignorant to grasp economics at all. Nor ar enough willing to learn. All you do is drunkenly rant and rave about Trump, how we need open borders, and that somehow allowing adversarial foreign powers like China to prey on our industry is good.
Time for you to go. Ideally to a mental institution.
Most, if not all, economists has seen the folly of tariffs for the last two centuries. Economic laws know no boundaries.
Economist have seen the folly of protective tariffs for the last two centuries. That’s because they are designed to disrupt trade.
Tariffs for revenue are another matter because, if they are to bring in revenue, they necessarily must not disrupt trade.
Trump's tariffs are intended to disrupt trade.
...and domestic taxes, or I mean tariffs?
Do you admit Trumps Tax-Cuts helped Americans or not?
Do you admit that Trumps Tariffs did bring in revenue?
Do you think the nation debt needs paid for or is MORE spending going to make it pay for itself?
Do you think the National Defense department should be paid for by domestic trade entirely or should Foreign trade have a bill on that?
The tariffs also reduced theft on American business from China. An added cost that is much costlier than the tariffs. Oddly sarc doesn't admit to company losses due to theft or security costs to counter it as a cost.
Chemjeff self-projects the honesty of the discussion, “Trump ?shill? (TDS) so you(sarc&chemjeff) will say whatever it takes, no matter how dishonest or disingenuous, to make Trump look good(bad)”
Neither one cares one bit about Biden’s Tarrifs.
Calling them Trumps Tarrifs is all that matters to them.
They also are fully aware of the effects of price controls but that didn't stop Harris from being in favor of them.
Quick question, what is a more surefire way to create a financial disaster?
A) Tariffs and Debt spending
B) Price controls and taxing unrealized capital gains.
No, neither of those things are 'good' but one of them is actually a financial apocalypse whereas the other one is the status quo.
...and one is Constitutional and other is not.
In case anyone cared about the very definition of a USA anymore.
Probably Trump's strongest contrast to Harris, if not the border.
"She's going to tax you more, wants tax cuts to expire, and wants to institute a shark-jumping tax on unrealized gains so fucking stupid that sycophants like Mark Cuban are pleading with her to pump the brakes on it"
There is no comparison, Trump gets a B+, Harris gets an "I award you no points, and may got have mercy on your soul"
I will cut taxes to zero and borrow 100% of the money. Big boost to the economy!
Ackshully, repealing all income taxes on Constitutional individuals and shifting the difference to collectivist corporations would set Der politische Staat to picking on something closer to its own size.
Trumps [R]-trifecta 'borrowing' = $780B
Bidens [D]-trifecta 'borrowing' = $2,800B
Or maybe spending-cuts also play a big part in that cut-taxes.
Great Tuccille article as usual. Makes you wish we had a non-looter candidate who didn't want cops to peek up girls' skirts, bust everyone for peyote and weed and rob everyone of their life savings under color of asset-forfeiture and qualified immunity. Waitaminnit! Wasn't there a senatorial candidate who got libertarian donators to back him at ten cents a vote while the looters were spending 200 times as much for each bullying ballot? https://libertariantranslator.wordpress.com/2022/11/12/libertarian-dollars-matter/
Nixon and Agnew just saw two black candidates roundly beaten in the votes-per-dollar category by an armed and gay libertarian.
*crowd gasp*
And Gay?!! What else can you tell me about they/them?
Note how they haven't included her wealth tax because it would be so disastrous for the economy that they have no choice but to exclude it so that they could frame her as someone who isn't so fucking stupid or evil that she would see the US economy effectively destroyed if such a position was implemented. Which she actually is. Which one, or some combination of both, is up to the individual.
Another glaring omission: how did they manage to find a frame in which she isn't making a nasty, condescending face for the camera. Or as another poster here recently noted, "the look of someone who knows the game is rigged for her."
And wouldn't ya know, at least according to one whistleblower at ABC, that is exactly what happened. Makes me wonder how much time she spent rehearsing answers to provided questions as opposed to how much time she spent looking in the mirror, rehearsing that horrid facade.
Sorry if I'm a bit off topic. But there's nothing worse than a media-backed phony.
All governments lie and all governments steal.
The worst of it has been the last four years of the current Obama administration which has wrecked the economy. When you pay as much for three pounds of ground chuck as you would have paid for a Thanksgiving turkey four years ago, when housing is so sky high America is creating another generation of homeless, when fuel prices are so high families are forced to live on hot dogs and mac and cheese as grocery prices are through the roof, and everywhere you look, restaurant chains, drug store chains, furniture store chains are disappearing and those who manage to remain open do so with reduced staff, where you get sticker shock just buying a lousy chicken for the Sunday feast and a few vegetables to go with and hope you can make it last all week.
The real theft has occurred during the last four years and the liberals are proud of it.
With Kamaltoe in the White House and her little version of Chairman Mao as VP, the nightmare on your street will continue.
Just make sure you keep an eye on your pets, especially if there are Haitians in your town.
Question about the national debt for all you constitutional scholars here. Which of the following "solutions" would violate the Public Debt Clause? (Not asking about the economic or political consequences, just the constitutionality. Assume Congress passed a bill and POTUS signed it.)
1. "FYTW" - simply repudiate the national debt and stop all payments.
2. "Chapter 11" - declare bankruptcy, declare most but not all of the govt's assets protected, pay creditors a few cents on the dollar.
3. "IRS Gotcha" - pass special income tax on federal interest payments. It's 100%, withheld in advance.
4. "Zimbabwe" - create as much money as is needed to pay off both the interest and the principal.
1. as you stated it would violate the Public Debt Clause. On the other hand defaulting (without repudiating the validity of the debt) because there isn't enough money available to pay the debt would not.
2. There is no legal basis for a bankruptcy filing by the federal government, and no court competent to hear it.
"There is no legal basis for a bankruptcy"
The assumption on all these wild-ass scenarios is that Congress would pass some new enabling legislation.
Are you sure (3) and (4) violate the Public Debt Clause? Certainly taxation of interest payments and intentional inflation are already done, is there some threshold where it becomes just an attempt to get out of the debt?
5. Issue "Pure Fiat" - decouple the deficit from the debt.
Fiat money is inferior to money backed by hard assets. But some forms of fiat money are superior to others. Unbacked or “debt-free” fiat money is much less destructive to the economy and to personal liberty than the “debt-backed” fiat money we use today. Government borrowing drives up the debt, not government spending. As long as we have fiat money, it is better to issue “unbacked” dollars to fund the deficit, rather than going further into debt. The inflationary impact of unbacked dollars is no worse than the inflationary impact of the same amount of debt-backed dollars. Issuing debt-free money will halt the increase in the national debt and its hundreds of billions of dollars in annual interest. Paying off part of the maturing debt each year and rolling over the rest will eventually bring the national debt (and its taxpayer-financed interest payments) down to zero. See http://www.fixourmoney.com .
4. was the solution Germany tried. The Versailles treaty forced Sino-American drug prohibition laws on Germany. Then the Jones-Miller law banned smack and added regulations may 1922. The tariff that same year started confiscation of whatever the government called dope and coast guard raided ships 12 miles out. German inflation began the next month and a few months later those wheelbarrow inflation photos. Competitors France, Belgium and England took reparations from Germany and used that to pay installments on USA war loans. In 1924 the Dem platform complained of heroin-addicted youths in Dry America.
So what ever happened to Kamala's price controls? I guess that doesn't qualify as tax policy strictly speaking but seems like it deserves an honorable mention. Did she recant? Did God himself stop by on his the way to the oval office and tell her to cut that shit out?
Did she recant?
She’s doing Level 1, meaning she deflects by changing the subject when called on it. Level 2 is when you deny ever having said it. Level 3 is when you actually admit to having changed positions.
They used to have Level 3 back when I was a kid. You really don’t see it anymore.
Did God himself stop by on his the way to the oval office and tell her to cut that shit out?
If by “God” you mean the people who pressured Biden to step down and convinced the other likely replacements to stand down without a fight, then yes, I imagine they told her to stop.
“Not taken into account by either major candidate's tax and revenue plans is the federal government's ongoing addiction to spending more than it takes in.” Debt isn’t a problem, per se. It’s a symptom of the problem – government spending. Government spending can be covered with either taxes or debt. Both suck equally. So stop focusing on debt and focus strictly on government spending proposals of each candidate.
Riiight... listen to the looters, ignore individual rights and pay no attention to that fiscally responsible libertarian candidate behind the curtain, Chase Oliver. On second thought, DO listen to what the looters say about one another.
One side will steal money from you via tariffs.
The other side will raise your income and probably sales taxes.
Either way, we're fucked.
Protective tariffs aren't intended to produce revenue. The goal is to get you to not buy the stuff with the tax and buy something else instead. If it works as planned, instead of stealing your money, they get you to spend your money buying stuff from politically connected companies that lobby for the tariffs. Yes it costs you money, but it's a wealth transfer to from poor people to rich companies, not government taking the money.
“The goal is to get you to not buy the stuff with the tax and buy something else instead.”
So what’s the tax-price difference RIGHT NOW between foreign and domestic because I know with State Tax included domestic manufacturing is getting hit as high as 80%.
“get you to not buy the stuff with the tax” – *is* currently domestic.
In FAR, FAR, FAR more ways than just tax alone (minimum wage, mandatory benefits, unemployment insurance, etc, etc, etc)
Face-it; The US and it’s self-entitlement by Gun-Force [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] has literally priced itself right out of any competitive market.
What a dishonest false dichotomy but please keep pushing the comrade Harris line.
1. There is a buyer choice to pay tariffs
2. Tariffs aren't a one-side policy.
3. Income isn’t what raised; it was prices and taxes (i.e. inflation).
Whichever one wins, the printing will continue.
But one of them will be better for your income and the economy. It shouldnt need to be explained.
Unless, like Tuccille, you are a TDS-addled pile of shit.
WHERE are all the butthurt Republicans pissed at Tuccille for censoring out Dogburger Drumpf's main selling points? Whutabout COATHANGER ABORTIONS, BULLYING DOCTORS TO LET WOMEN DIE, PROHIBITION OF EVERYTHING EXCEPT CIGARETTES AND GIN, ASSET FORFEITURE LOOTING, PRISON AND DEATH TO ANYONE WHO PASSES A JOINT. Just ask someone like Ross, or a black guy jailed for a lid, or with a daughter in the morgue, how important are pig squeals about deficits and mutual looter recriminations.
""How Much Will the Major Presidential Candidates Steal From You?""
I can't say exactly but it will be YUUUUUUGGGGEEE
Honest people can disagree about the viability of Trump's plan to reduce the debt. HONEST people can't deny he has one.