A Day Care Worker Who Says She Was Documenting Diaper Rashes Got 126 Years for Taking 8 Photos
The Maryland Supreme Court deemed the evidence sufficient to convict the defendant on sexual abuse and child pornography charges.

A few years ago, Roseberline Turenne, an 18-year-old aide at a Maryland day care center, used her cellphone to take photographs showing "the naked genitals and pubic areas" of eight little girls. Seven of the girls were lying on changing tables, while the eighth was standing in a bathroom. Turenne later claimed she was documenting preexisting diaper rashes, lest she be blamed for allowing them to develop while the girls were in her care.
Turenne was fired after the pictures were discovered because they violated the day care center's policies, which prohibited staff members from photographing children. She also was charged with eight counts each of child sexual abuse, production of child pornography, and possession of child pornography.
Discounting Turenne's explanation of her motive for taking the pictures, a jury convicted her on all 24 counts, resulting in a 126-year prison sentence. Last Friday, the Maryland Supreme Court upheld Turenne's convictions, concluding that the jury reasonably rejected her account, that her conduct met the elements of the three crimes, and that "the evidence was sufficient for the jury to conclude that Ms. Turenne took the photos of the children for the purpose of sexual gratification."
Although Turenne's astonishingly severe sentence was not at issue in this appeal, it vividly illustrates how laws related to child pornography can generate penalties that make little sense. Even if you join the jurors, the intermediate appeals court, and the Maryland Supreme Court in disbelieving her account of why she took the pictures, she did not share them with anyone, and she was not accused of assaulting the girls. Yet under Maryland law, Turenne will have to serve at least a quarter of her 126-year sentence—nearly 32 years—before she is eligible for parole.
People convicted of violent crimes in Maryland have to serve at least half of their sentences before they are eligible for parole. But someone who was convicted of voluntary manslaughter and received the maximum 10-year sentence still would have a shot at parole after five years. Even someone convicted of first-degree rape, which triggers a mandatory 25-year minimum, could end up serving less time than Turenne faces for noncontact offenses that consisted of nothing more than taking pictures.
That reality is especially troubling because it is not clear that Turenne committed the crimes with which she was charged. Just four out of seven justices agreed that all of her convictions were valid. In a partial dissent joined by Justice Brynja Booth, Chief Justice Matthew Fader concluded that there was insufficient evidence to convict Turenne of producing and possessing child pornography. Justice Shirley Watts concurred, and she filed a separate dissent arguing that Turenne's sexual abuse convictions also should be overturned.
As relevant here, Maryland law defines child pornography as a "visual representation" that "depicts a minor engaged as a subject…in sexual conduct," which includes the "lascivious exhibition of the genitals or pubic area of any person." Although the statute does not define "lascivious exhibition," the Maryland Supreme Court settled on a "content-plus-context" test for determining "whether the image is objectively sexual in nature."
The production and possession charges, in other words, did not hinge on Turenne's personal motivation. In concluding that Turenne's pictures were "objectively sexual," the majority noted that "all eight girls were partially or fully nude," that "all had nude genitals and pubic areas on display," that "none of the children's faces are visible in the photographs," that the picture "were all very similar to one another," and that several girls were in "poses that resemble what one might see in some adult pornography: the subject on her back, her legs spread, displaying her genitals."
Fader agreed with the test used by his colleagues but argued that they misapplied it. "I would conclude that none of the eight photographs at issue depicts a 'lascivious exhibition of the genitals,'" he writes. "Seven of the photographs depict a child on a diaper-changing table, naked, in a position that is fully consistent with a child having her diaper changed. The final picture depicts a child in a standing position in a bathroom, naked from sternum to the knees. None of the children are posed in anything resembling a sexual position. There are no other people in any of the photographs, nor are there any objects that are sexual in nature or that change the nature of the images from children getting diaper changes to anything objectively sexual."
Although "the framing of the photographs is a relevant consideration," Fader says, "the
framing here still makes clear that the pictures are of children during the process of a diaper change." And contrary to the majority's claim that the girls' "poses" are reminiscent of adult pornography, he adds, "the children are situated in the midst of diaper changes—a perfectly ordinary, nonsexual event—not posed in sexual positions. That an image of an adult posed in a similar manner might be viewed as an objectively sexual image—perhaps viewed as sexual because the position is unnatural for an adult in the ordinary course of a day, or perhaps just because of anatomical development—is irrelevant, because these are images of infants, not adults."
Fader says other "contextual elements" cited by the majority—including the photos' similarity to each other, the fact that "they were all taken at a daycare center," the fact that "they were all taken in the center's bathroom, where Ms. Turenne was secluded," her initial statement that the photos had "no meaning," and her "implausible documentation-of-diaper rash explanation"—were "relevant to the jury's consideration of Ms. Turenne's likely purpose in taking and keeping the images." They therefore were "proper considerations for the jury in determining whether Ms. Turenne exploited the children for her own benefit in connection with the child sexual abuse charges." But the test that the majority applied in upholding the child pornography convictions is supposed to be "objective," making her motivation irrelevant.
"The only contextual element that is relevant to the jury's understanding of what is depicted in the images themselves, to the extent it is unclear in any of them, is that the children in seven of the eight images were lying on a changing table and the eighth was in a bathroom," Fader writes. "But knowledge of the setting in which the pictures were taken does not add any element of objective sexuality to them, separate and apart from Ms. Turenne's subjective motivation. The other contextual elements identified by the Majority speak to Ms. Turenne's subjective motivation, not what is depicted in the images themselves."
To convict Turenne of the sexual abuse charges, the prosecution had to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the photos constituted "exploitation of a minor," meaning she "took advantage of or unjustly or improperly used the child for…her own benefit." That "benefit," according to the prosecution, was "sexual gratification." Fader agreed with the majority that "there was sufficient evidence for the jury to infer that Ms. Turenne took the eight pictures at issue for her own benefit."
Watts, however, dissented on that point too. She notes that the prosecution made much of Turenne's sexual orientation, which Watts thinks improperly figured in the verdict.
During Turenne's trial, a prosecutor asked her if she was attracted to women. "I wouldn't say attracted to women," she replied. "I'm bisexual, like, I'm still confused about what I like between men or women. But not children, no."
The prosecution, which noted that all the photographs featured girls and presented testimony from a co-worker who said Turenne had told her "she was gay," argued that her sexual orientation was relevant in assessing why she took the pictures. Prosecutors also noted that Turenne had adult pornography featuring both men and women on her phone—although, contrary to what you might expect given the charges against her, there was no indication that she had "conducted any internet searches for child pornography."
The Maryland Supreme Court explicitly declined to consider that evidence. But Watts argues that it played an important role in the case. Turenne "was prejudiced by the admission of the evidence," Watts says. And "with these circumstances omitted, the remaining evidence is insufficient to support Ms. Turenne's convictions for child sexual abuse."
Watts suggests that Turenne's explanation of her behavior is more plausible than her colleagues think. "Some of the photos show redness or darkened areas—i.e., consistent with diaper rashes—near the genital area and/or in the fold of the buttocks, and one of them shows diaper cream in and around the fold of the buttocks," she writes. "Ms. Turenne testified that she took the photos to prove that children had diaper rashes before she started watching them. Although the jury evidently did not find this part of Ms. Turenne's testimony credible, the nature of the photos and the circumstances surrounding them being taken do not alone establish that the photos were taken for the purpose of sexual gratification."
The majority emphasized that Turenne initially denied taking the pictures, later said they had "no meaning," and did not offer the diaper-rash explanation until her trial. But Watts thinks Turenne's evasiveness and reticence are understandable in the circumstances, even without accepting the prosecution's theory of why she took the photos.
"Although the photos were taken clandestinely in violation of the daycare center's no-photo policy and Ms. Turenne initially denied having taken them, these facts were not sufficient for a rational juror to infer that the photos were taken for sexual gratification," Watts writes. "A rational juror could have inferred that Ms. Turenne took the photos because she was concerned about being blamed for diaper rashes and lied about having taken them because she knew doing so was against the daycare center's policy. A rational juror also could have inferred that Ms. Turenne took the photos while she was alone with the children because she knew that taking the photos was against the center's policy….Without consideration of evidence admitted at trial concerning Ms. Turenne's sexual orientation and possession of adult pornography, no rational juror could have found beyond a reasonable doubt based on the appearance of the photos that they were taken for sexual gratification."
Although Turenne did not challenge her sentence in this appeal, Watts notes that "the circuit court imposed an aggregate sentence of 280 years of imprisonment, with all but 126 years suspended, followed by 5 years of probation and lifetime registration as a sex offender." While "criminal offenses against children are heinous and must be dealt with appropriately," she says, "it is disproportionate and draconian to impose an aggregate sentence of nearly 3 centuries of imprisonment, with all but 126 years suspended, under the circumstances of this case." Whatever you make of Turenne's defense, that much seems clearly true.
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I guess medical books with photos are pornography now.
And if you get caught looking at them too.
As a father I understand the desire to protect children, but damn that pendulum has swung far.
IMO, Reason's take is a novel mix of their usual dishonesty and selective(ly motivated) narration.
Skip the children bit. Let's say this person was a janitor who thought adult women were mucking up the bathroom stalls unnecessarily and took it upon themselves to film women in the bathroom stalls against company policy. Should someone like that get a criminal sentence? Fuck yeah. 126 yrs.? Probably not. Should "Oh, I didn't know not to take pictures of women in the bathroom without anyone's permission. I was just trying to keep the bathrooms clean." be a valid defense? No, then it becomes an idiotic race to the bottom of exactly how far they or anyone else can go with what they "Don't know not to do." in order to keep the(ir employer's) bathrooms clean (from their fellow employers).
Again, as below, I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I know people who had nth-hand copies of European porn in the late 80s/early 90s that skirted American age-of-consent laws but abided European age-of-consent laws. We've probably all seen Pam Anderson and Tommy Lee's (or other) stolen sex tape. Such people shouldn't get 126 yrs. in prison either. But the idea that they're innocent because they didn't know they shouldn't own or be viewing such material is just stupid. The issue isn't, as Reason seems to assert, the act wasn't immoral or illegal the question is whether the punishment fits the crime. Which, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to be what her lawyers appealed.
Basically, she's just stupid. If guilty, how did anyone else find the photos? If innocent, make written dated notes documenting the diaper rash.
The vast majority of criminals in prison are of low intelligence. It's a major risk factor for both committing serious crimes and for getting caught.
Isn’t it odd that children have been potentially abused and people here are discussing the punishment instead of the solution to prevent abuse In the first place?
We have draconian penalties because we refuse to do what is necessary to prevent the crime in the first place.
Before lying is criminalized we will need to make it a human right to be able to record everything we witness.
For that to occur we’ll need to secure the internet and create enforceable laws that criminalize the sharing of confidential digital memories unless the memories are of a witness to a crime.
The day care worker should be required by law to wear a functioning body camera when working with children.
The child could also be fitted with a body camera so parents could audit their memories at the day care.
Only this will provide some security when we allow others private access to our vulnerable loved ones.
Was that satire? I cant tell.
If not and you were the world leader I guess your slogan would be
“Big Misek is watching you!”
The real solution is to have a Republic for a moral people. Minimal laws and supervision necessary. But in a multicultural non-melting pot unreligious (anti judeo-christian) nation a generally agreed upon morality is a pipe dream.
Fix that – determine what is bedrock moral principle and inculcate that into the populace. Hmmm I am guessing that the gender-bending, child castrating psychology and social science industrial complex wont be up to the task – even with all the cultural industries pushing their message. That is because they dont push morality, they push cultural and psychological poison.
Sow the wind....
Misek is a Nazi. Everything he says is colored by that. He's irrational, illogical, and there's nothing you can do with logic or facts to change his mind.
It is good to counter his arguments for other readers who don't know his history. But arguing with him? Just a waste of time for everybody except Misek.
You are a lying hack.
Just another fuckwit brainwashed to believe a narrative and to disregard facts that refute it in the narratives bigoted defence.
You bleat naaazi like the sheep you are.
No? Prove your claim. You know you can’t but you can’t recognize why.
“ But in a multicultural non-melting pot unreligious (anti judeo-christian) nation a generally agreed upon morality is a pipe dream.”
You mean “the real world”.
Recognizing everyone’s inalienable right to record what they witness in no way enables me, or anyone else for that matter, to watch everyone.
It simply provides irrefutable evidence of the truth aha reality that everyone witnesses.
We have the technology to do this for the first time in history.
It’s a sad recurring theme in human history to reject new, often marvellous, technology.
It would certainly change the power dynamic in husband\wife arguments over what was said. 😉
Yeah it's pretty hard to tell. His comment (and his reply a little further on in this chat) seems to suggest he (and mad.casual) are troll bots. 🙂
Would this hypothetical janitor be afraid people wouldn’t believe it was women flushing tampons?
My kid was recently in daycare. We got photos and updates via an app throughout the day. A few times we were alerted to her having a rash. We were alerted to diaper rash a couple times with photo attached that intentionally avoided showing genitals. I'm open to the possibility of CYA or alerting parents and her just going about it in an improper manner. What gets me is that this was just on her personal phone and I can't even be sure that the photos were of diaper rash.
The sentence is extreme even if one assumes there are details omitted that makes this a bit worse than presented. As per usual though, when an action seems outrageously out of sync with the details presented then it's likely because we aren't being told something important
According to the court documents most of the photos allegedly taken to document diaper rash didn’t show any diaper rash.
She said nothing about diaper rash when questioned by police (did not just remain silent, told a bunch of lies). Only produced this explanation after ending up in court.
Daycare owner said neither the accused nor anyone else at the center had been reprimanded for anything to do with diaper rash, so it’s not like she had particular reason to be worried.
Taking photos was against policy so it should on the other hand have been obvious she *would* be in trouble for that, especially naked photos of kids genitals which should ring “go to jail” bells in the head of basically anyone who has ever read the news or watched a TV show at this point.
She apparently didn’t document the (seemingly invisible) diaper rashes in any other way or say anything about it to her supervisor or the parents.
She only took pictures of little girls despite the daycare being mixed. Gender preferences and specific “types” are not universal amongst pedophiles but many have specific victim profiles. It’s an odd coincidence that eight little girls needed their diaper rashes documented while zero boys did.
She was also looking at (adult) porn on her break at the daycare and sharing it with her coworker, which is how the photos were discovered by the coworker in her camera roll. Not illegal but pretty gross to watch porn in a daycare IMO and especially combined with everything else it’s suggestive.
Wow that’s insane. It still doesn’t change the fact that she could have kidnapped all 8, trafficked then for 15 years, and still would have got a sentence a fraction of what she got here.
Idgaf if she was sexually stimulated or not, 126 years is an abortion of justice. Shit she could have done practically any other crime on the planet and got less time. This is just stupid bc there were no victims. And it’s only 8 pictures. 8.
She sounds disturbed af tho. I’d give her a psych evaluation and she’d prob wind up with 5 years and a lot of probation.
Edit: I looked her up. She’s black. Now it all makes sense.
Trafficked? She could have murdered all 8 of them and still gotten a lower sentence, since the mandatory minimum for first degree murder is 25 years.
Once you include the omitted data (thanks, Jen), I feel more certain about the conviction, but the sentence length is ridiculous.
How does "that make sense"? I hadn't even stop to consider what race she was..why should it have any bearing at all to the case?
I think we all agree here, and agree with Reason, the sentence is way too much. As others pointed out here, she could have killed all of them and got a lighter sentence (well as long as she didn't also take pictures?)
Thank you for this detail that most news reports seem to have omitted. This completely changes my perspective. Quick frankly, after reading this information, I don't care how draconian her sentence is, as long as it involves her never, ever having access to another child again.
No it hasn't. The day care worker was way out of bounds and deserves what she got
In my state, yes. Our "child pornography" laws are draconian and without exceptions except for LEOs. Prosecutors refrain from prosecuting for medical photographs, but that exception is not written into the statute. If you own a copy of Houses of the Holy, in my state you're a felon.
By Maryland's definition, medical texts are unquestionably child pornography, and further, all medical students are pedophiles who should be incarcerated, along with with every instructor, dean, department head, college president, and textbook publisher. Oh... the publisher is especially horrible, he distributes this vile filth.
Anyone who is alone with children are fools at this point. Any man alone with a female in an elevator for example is taking his future into his hands. Always have someone else present.
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. Not to mention National Geographic.
In the modern language, the little girls are "child sexual abuse survivors".
And pro-life activists?
Too bad she didn't ejaculate on them, Jeff says that should get you a reduced sentence.
Also this whole thing seems really sketchy on both sides. Hers slightly less so than the courts, but there is definitely something fucky going on here.
There have been plenty of abuses of child pornography laws that defy all logic, but this isn't one of them.
On the afternoon of June 10, Ms. Turenne handed her cellphone to Nadasia Miller, another aide at the Center, while the two women were together in the Center’s break room. Ms. Turenne gave Ms. Miller her phone so that Ms. Miller could view an adult pornographic video on the phone. After watching a portion of the video that Ms. Turenne wanted her to see, Ms. Miller noticed several photographs in the camera roll of Ms. Turenne’s phone.
So, the pictures were discovered while she was sharing a porn video on her work break at a daycare center. Then she lies about the photos repeatedly when the cops ask her about them, tries to blame her phone for downloading them but then finally admits she took them and says she doesn't know why she took the pictures.
Sullum fails to note that the diaper rash defense was not introduced until the trial. He also fails to note that Turenne was without question engaging in sexualized behavior while at work. Instead he makes a big deal out of the attention paid to her sexual orientation. Not a surprise. Sullum is focusing on a persecution aspect which detracts attention from what is otherwise significantly deviant behavior.
I don't think her sexual orientation had anything to do with the verdict. I think it was that the defendant clearly had no problem engaging in sexualized behavior at work and taking pictures of naked little girls was just an extension of that behavior. The message that should be sent to all such perverts is: if you exploit children you will be punished to the full extent of the law.
She got off easy. Wood chipper
Wood chipperGary PlauchéShe’s black. That explains everything
The “all gays are pedos” narrative extends beyond these comments.
Quite a feat, considering nobody here says that.
If I was a Jesse or Canadian I’d have bookmarked it when people said such things while defending DeSantis for saving children from gay, pedophile drag queens and from gay, pedophile school librarians. Gay and pedo were virtual synonyms. Alas I have a life, and friends. So no bookmarks for you.
You bookmarked something ?
Get a life.
Those bartenders aren’t your friends sarcy, and they’re always glad to see you leave.
Imagine serving 20 drinks for zero tip.
While listening to his boring stories.
Difficulty. Nobody ever said this. It is just one of jeffs arguments that come from identitarian attacks you’ve gladly adopted since you have no intellectual arguments. And are a leftist.
Hey Jesse... "Nobody ever said this."
Well then, I will believe you just ass soon ass you bless the below statement, and post it in Your Holy Name:
"I, JesseAZ, do agree that gays and drag queens, even those who often vote for "Team D" or libertarians, can, in at least some cases, be every bit ass data-driven and morally virtuous ass I, JesseAZ, am."
You can DO it, JesseAZ! I'm rooting for ya!!!
lol
Did you fund the citation yet?
Imagine being so hated here you have to suck up to sqrsly.
My how you've fallen.
“I, JesseAZ, do agree that gays and drag queens, even those who often vote for “Team D” or libertarians, can, in at least some cases, be every bit ass data-driven and morally virtuous ass I, JesseAZ, am.”
I'm still waiting!!!
My, how LOW you've fallen! Apparently ever since the day Yer Momma shed a defective egg, which was then fartilized by who-knows-twat, You have cuntsidered Yerself to be PervFected in Every Way, and can cuntsider NO ONE other than Yourself and PervFected ditto-heads, to be morally virtuous or data-driven!
Data driven? Is that his excuse?
One certainty of data analysis is that when you put garbage in, you get garbage out.
Explains a lot.
It certainly explains you.
" . . . people said such things while defending DeSantis for saving children from gay, pedophile drag queens and from gay, pedophile school librarians. Gay and pedo were virtual synonyms."
I think that you misremember the discussion.
They were pointing out that progressive LGBTQ+ 'rights' activists were decrying the law as being disproportionally harmful to gay and trans people. Such as this guy on Twitter:
"The amount of people not understanding that this is going to be used to kill trans and queer people is making me lose my mind."
What an odd thing to say.
https://notthebee.com/article/the-lgbt-crowd-seems-really-upset-about-florida-giving-the-death-penalty-for-child-rape
Your argument is that one comment by some idiot on Twitter disproves what was ranted on in these comments?
Sure dude. Whatever you say.
I don’t generally request cites seriously, so no skin off my nose.
However, I will reiterate that nobody’s arguments in those threads was that “all gays are pedos” (except maybe Nardz or AT). And they weren’t being used synonymously. The fact that you misrepresent the very real issues people have with certain books that literally depict oral sex with minors and the pushing of the trans ideology, makes me think a little less of you.
I get you hate them, but damn.
I've seen AT make that assertion then deny he made it in the same thread.
Did you ever find a citation of your strawman?
Dude, you really should have read the decision before coming to the defense of this girl. This is not gay panic. She was caught taking kiddie pics while showing porn to a co-worker in the break room of a daycare center. Then she lied multiple times about the photos before admitting she didn't know why she took them.
You really shit the bed in your rush to be pithy.
Even if she IS attracted to toddler girls and DID take the pictures for sexual gratification, the sentence is absurd. The children were not harmed in any way.
Heh. Jean Shepherd did a bit about a then-current TV commercial for Ivory Snow, "Would you diaper your baby on television?" Child porn wasn't a concern in those days; nude exposure of children was thought to be a nothing because so few people were sexually attracted to them. But Shep imagined years later one of the subjects undergoing psychiatry to find an unknown trauma, and recalling a booming voice saying that over her head while s/he was naked on camera.
Yes, the "recovered memories" hoax.
Shep was a little ahead of his time about that.
Agreed the Sentanced is absurd. She should be killed
Well, she wasn't wearing her hijab, so I guess public stoning is the only option.
Yeah, I don't really get it. If she straight up killed the girls and raped their corpses she could get less time than that. Voyeurism is typically what, a year in jail? Double it because it's children and she'd be looking at what, 16 years maximum? Parole in 8. That seems reasonable.
This seems more than a little egregious.
First, the most important thing.
You know, it's kind of odd. Normally, I'm the kinda guy who says something like "There are probably people out there with 45-yr.-old copies of Pretty Baby depicting an 11-yr.-old Brooke Shields nude, who aren't really hurting anybody. They're like 5th hand copies and they self-evidently had no hand in the production of the material and shouldn't be regarded as child pornographers. Now the people actually in the room with the children gathering photos of them first hand, or their direct financiers and facilitators? String them up by their toes, literally."
Similarly, I find the idea that she took the photos, even just clinically, from a libertarian and/or cultural perspective, not much less reprehensible. If she turned the photos over to DCFS do we, as libertarians, cheer her? If she uses them as leverage against her employer do we, as libertarians, cheer her? If they weren't photos of children but adults who hadn't consented do we, as libertarians, cheer her? All the kids I know would know better than to engage in this activity. They would know better than to engage in it without permission. They would know better than to engage in it without permission by themselves and/or on their own authority. I know this because virtually every activity from Sunday school to Scouts to Sports to extracurricular camps to pre-teen "How to use your cell phone and conduct yourself responsibly online." agreement delineates that they should expect behavior from adults to conform to those norms, they should conform to them, and report anyone who doesn't.
Is 126 yrs. too much? IDK. How lenient would we have been with a white man if he'd taken photos of 8 girls without anyone's permission and then lied about where the photos came from? I know that if I took my kid to the doctor and the doctor waited until after I was out of the room or just, without asking in the middle of the exam, took out his phone and started taking pics, would at least wind up eating the phone, if not facing similar charges.
Personally, this, once again, feels like a bridge too far from Reason. Like the argument is that the act and the photos were clearly in no way a crime at all, rather than just a gross violation of the company's policies and the customer's and/or public's trust that actually does pretty clearly encroach on a crime and that the sentence is too harsh.
….does pretty clearly encroach on a crime….
So it’s not really a crime? Then why the sentence?
encroach
/ĕn-krōch′/
intransitive verb
To take another's possessions or rights gradually or stealthily.
encroach on a neighbor's land.
To advance beyond proper or former limits.
desert encroaching upon grassland.
Are you defending someone who took nude pictures of children, or adults, without consent because of your advocacy of libertarianism and individual rights, because you agree with Jacob Sullum, or because you just feel the sentence was too harsh? Because of the three, it certainly seems like you'll distort objective definitions and the truth in order to void the first and last in order to agree with Sullum.
Let me ask you this: Do you think no reasonable prosecutor would've brought a case against Hillary Clinton for a de facto crime? How about Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein?
No, you made it sound like it wasn’t really a crime. Like doing 64 in a 65, close, but not really.
I made it sound like someone shouldn't get 128 yrs. for doing 70 in a 65 even if some places regard speeding as a civil offense brought by the municipality and some places regard it as a criminal offense. Or like saying if I point a loaded gun at you and 7 other people's head without you knowing, just because the local municipality doesn't have a law against that specific form of menacing or brandishing, doesn't mean haven't committed a crime against you, them, or anyone else and/or that the law can only shrug its shoulders and say "Well, there's nothing we can do." even if I've got video on my phone and witnesses to the fact. Or if a group of kids got together and convinced a special needs peer to come with them and started live streaming them torturing him on Facebook and LEOs just said "Well, we don't *know* he didn't consent and we don't have a law against broadcasting violence to Facebook..."
The degree of white knighting for this person is insane. Why you continue to insist that, law aside, what is a clear violation of a number of peoples' rights in defense of this woman and Jacob's narrative, is a non-issue is rather overtly anti-individual liberty/authoritarian.
People get 'legitimately' locked up (to say nothing of extra-judicial shootings) for all kinds of civil offenses less egregious, with fewer actual victims, and little-to-no violation of anyone else's rights all the time (case-in-point reckless endangerment/excessive speeding on empty roads). The idea that this person didn't do anything wrong and shouldn't have gone to court just beclowns those making the argument.
I understand your frustration, but I am not opposed to your position.
I'm trying to figure out what her better choices were. One might be to assume she wouldn't be sued personally for causing diaper rashes, but only the facility would. I don't think that's a safe assumption, nor even if it were true, that there'd be no negative repercussions for her.
Another would be, instead of taking photos, to get witnesses to the fact that rashes were present on such-and-such date. I'm not sure inviting more persons in as witnesses would be seen as legally less damaging than taking photos.
Another would be telling a supervisor about the rashes, and then putting it on them as to what to do. That just pushes the liability up the chain of command.
I’m trying to figure out what her better choices were.
WTF? She lied. Multiple times. The diaper rash thing was only introduced at her trial. You bit on Sullum's narrative instead of the truth.
It may not have been the truth in her particular case, but what about a case that was just like she said it was?
what about a case that was just like she said it was?
There is no criminal penalty for properly documenting a medical condition like a diaper rash. That is why her lawyer suggested it as a defense.
But why would anyone take such pictures if it was not part of their training for the job? Why not simply fold the diaper down enough to show the rash and protect the modesty of the child? Even a teenager should perceive that legs spread full on labia shots of a child are completely inappropriate. If this was documentation, why no follow up pictures? There is simply no case where these particular pictures as described can be viewed as documentation of a medical condition.
No reasonable person could possibly believe that these pictures were a good idea. Especially since taking pictures of the kids is explicitly against the daycare’s policy.
She could, in escalating order:
Do nothing because no one at the center had been complained about or reprimanded for anything to do with diaper rash, the diaper rash was pre-existent, she didn’t do anything to cause the rash, and she had no particular reason to be worried about it.
Look up/ask if there’s a company policy for making note of medical issues observed (there almost certainly is) and follow it.
Document the rash in writing to her supervisor and/or the parents.
Bring the rash to the attention of another childcare worker so that there would be a witness.
Take a less explicit picture, which might get her reprimanded or fired since it’s against policy but at least wouldn’t get her brought up on child porn charges. Maybe even one that actually shows diaper rash (the ones she took didn’t) or makes it possible to identify the child (these showed only genitalia, so only recognizable as a particular child whose parents might complain to those who can ID the girl by her vulva).
Even at that, 8 kids. One kid with whose parents complained? Sure. 2? 3? Yeah, maybe.*8* kids? Seems equally likely that you're just documenting how shitty you are at your job or are setting up a burn book as you are documenting evidence for someone else's corrective actions and feedback.
Yeah, I’m trying to roll with Roberta’s question about what a reasonable childcare worker might do if she were worried about being blamed for a preexisting injury, but the facts of this case are so egregious that it just kind of highlights how unbelievably dumb the woman’s actions were if she isn’t an actual pedophile (or intending to sell to pedophiles).
"A woman's vagina has just as much personality as her face."—Larry Flynt
Her better option would have been…not taking secret naked pictures of children against company policy and then lying about it when caught. I don’t see how anyone who works in childcare could possibly think that she would be able to produce such pictures in her defense and have it somehow help her. We weren’t even allowed to take kids to the bathroom alone when I worked daycare; we had to have two workers present.
That's interesting: Having *more* people see naked children is more legitimate because it might prevent any *one* of them from doing something worse.
All the caregivers are going to see naked children all the time if the children are in diapers or need help toileting. All parents know this when they sign their children up for care; there is literally no way to care for the children without that being the case, and there is nothing inherently wrong with the caregivers incidentally seeing the children naked. The rule is to keep the children from being exploited or abused in secret, as happened here.
We weren’t even allowed to take kids to the bathroom alone when I worked daycare; we had to have two workers present.
As I point out below, every Catholic Church, as well as several other denominations, every Scouting organization, and a number of sports and extracurricular organizations have this as explicit policy. "Two-deep leadership" *and* and explicit "No phones in/around the restrooms." policy *in addition to* mandatory reporting. They didn't choose to have these policies, they were thrust on them legally for reasons justified by victims and victims advocates. Children in these organizations are taught and expected to abide by these rules. That people suddenly feel compelled to play retarded about them in defense of their pet idiot(s) and under the banner of libertarianism is more of a demonstration of how retardedly sociopathic and anti-individual liberty 'libertarianism' has become.
I don’t think that’s a safe assumption, nor even if it were true, that there’d be no negative repercussions for her.
...
I’m not sure inviting more persons in as witnesses would be seen as legally less damaging than taking photos.
...
That just pushes the liability up the chain of command.
I don't think making excuses about how you just assume that all of society is just as, if not more socially dysfunctional and that the only thing in the whole system saving these kids from diaper rash was this one noble 19-yr.-old caregiver taking pre-emptive and otherwise unverifiable "burn book" photos of them is the... uh... win... that you think it is.
All are great choices for the non-pedo.
The DRD was only introduced at trial, and she made no claim that she or any other daycare workers had been admonished about causing diaper rash, let alone punished for such. Moreover, she kept them on the same phone she viewed pornography on, and while working at a daycare was sharing pornography with her coworkers.
The term "Witch Hunt" comes to mind.
Lesbian or "bi" witch makes it ALL that much worse-erer-rest-est! BURN the witches!
Also the illegal sub-humans, trannies, accused “groomers”, abortionists, gays, heathens, infidels, vaxxers, mask-wearers, atheists, dirty hippies, Jews, un-Christian witches, or, the very WORST of them all, being one of those accused of STEALING THE ERECTIONS OF OUR DEAR LEADER, right, right-wing wrong-nuts?
WTHF? It's like the exact opposite of that. More like the canonization of an unrepentant sinner like George Floyd.
Witch Hunt: No evidence. Angry mob. Unsuspecting and/or innocent victim.
This: Person knowingly taking non-consensual nude photos. No mob until evidence is presented. Victim claims, after accusation, and then lying, that their motives were actually virtuous.
Victim claims, after accusation, and then lying, that their motives were actually virtuous.
Is there any evidence of this? From the decision, she made no claim other than "I don't know why I did it." Her lawyer presented the diaper rash defense at her trial. That's why the jury and the judges didn't buy it.
At that point, IMO, her and her representation are effectively synonymous. I agree it's likely her lawyer's idea but the distinction is moot. More critical, IMO, is prior to that point, she said she didn't take the pictures and that they were sent to her via WhatsApp, which was a lie that *should've* raised all kinds of fucking alarm bells.
Stupid games, stupid prizes.
she said she didn’t take the pictures and that they were sent to her via WhatsApp, which was a lie that *should’ve* raised all kinds of fucking alarm bells.
Thank you. I was starting to feel like a crazy person that nobody else was perceiving that her lies before she had a lawyer were the bog-standard pedophile defense. If she was not planning to share the photos, she had at least been groomed about doing so.
Thank you. I was starting to feel like a crazy person
Again, even lies aside, the whole thing is astounding from an auspiciously "libertarian" website or anyone with even a passing interest in liberty.
As I indicated above, if this was a janitor trying to catch adults making a mess of the bathroom there absolutely would be criminal trespass/invasion of privacy charges for taping people in the bathroom without consent.
The idea that because these are children and the person accused got 126 yrs. no crime or violation of people or parents took place is just abject insanity. *Especially* after the whole "Don't Say Gay" debacle.
Sullum isn't a libritarian. He is a totalitarian pro socialist pedofile. Even his mother wishes she had an abortion
Mentality on display here = the more PUNISHMENT the more JUSTICE!!!
Get on twatever is the fashionable bandwagon (filled with scapegoats) of the day, and PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH, to the MAX, twatever scapegoats we can find!!! More PUNISHMENT = = more JUSTICE!!!
(I find "punishment boners" to be one of the top 2 or three obscenities on the planet. WHEN at long last, will the courts agree with me?)
Years ago when my foam formula was a going concern, I thought about how I might advertise its lack of vulvar irritancy when used as bubble bath, by getting colposcopic before-and-after photos. And it probably would've been of children, since they're the major users of such products. But it would've been with advance permission by their parents.
It also occurs to me now that if this convict had taken similar photos of adults, in which case their purpose would've been obviously pornographic, it would've been legal, as opposed to this case where a pornographic purpose would've had to have been inferred. It also occurs to me that if the facility had indeed been sued for causing diaper rashes, photos of the children would probably have been taken for evidence of the damage.
And now I wonder how many child abuse or neglect cases have been pursued by official services using such photos in their investigations.
And now I wonder how many child abuse or neglect cases have been pursued by official services using such photos in their investigations.
That’s different, they are “experts”.
It also occurs to me now that if this convict had taken similar photos of adults, in which case their purpose would’ve been obviously pornographic, it would’ve been legal,
I don't know that I disagree with your other takes but this one includes at least a couple stolen bases that factor in. First, photos of adults aren't automatically pornographic (or not) because they're nude (or not). Second, with regard to legality, pornography or not, there's still an issue of consent.
If it had anything to do with diaper rash, you might have a point.
Did anybody else read the decision? Because none of the responses are on point. Sullum was not honest about the issues that were brought up at trial.
Welcome to Reason.
This is always my suspicion when I read a Reason article lamenting a "rash" decision by jurors who sat through (likely) weeks-long trials filled with evidence.
Sullum is the king of selective narrative-telling. The king.
If he had just pointed out the discrepancy between the punishment for these pictures and, say, first degree rape, it would be one thing. But he spends too long trying to convince us a crime wasn't committed when the jurors sitting through a long trial unanimously disagreed.
Because he defends pedophilia. Repeatedly. It's not even close to the first time he has chosen to die on that hill.
If she had only molested 8 young boys instead, she would have walked.
Yet another reason to raise your own children.
The original story paints a different picture
https://www.wmdt.com/2021/06/salisbury-child-care-employee-arrested-on-child-sex-abuse-charges/
According to court documents, the office manager of the facility told officials that an employee, identified as 18-year-old Roseberline Turenne, had numerous photographs of children’s vaginas on her phone. It was reported that another employee saw the photographs on Turenne’s phone during their lunch break and told the office manager.
Officials then met with Turenne on scene and viewed the photographs on her phone with her consent. We’re told a minimum of six photographs of children’s vaginas were found on her found, and the children appeared to be between the ages of birth to four years old. The photographs were reportedly taken while the children were on the changing table.
Turenne allegedly told police that the photos were sent to her on the WhatsApp phone app and denied any allegations of taking the photos.
After officials observed a red mat on one changing table that matched the color of one of the changing mats in the photograph, Turenne then reportedly admitted to taking the photos at the daycare and that the children in the photos attended the facility. She did not provide a reason for taking the photos.
So basically she was displaying them to others. Then originally denied having taken them, then when confronted with the obvious, didn’t give a reason, but then came up with one at trial
Is that worth 128 years? Considering actual child molesters get much less (I live near a retreat for pedophile priests who probably should be in jail instead of being in a retreat, given what it says on the sex offender registry), obviously not. But she should probably serve some and be banned from working with children.
Is that worth 128 years? Considering actual child molesters get much less (I live near a retreat for pedophile priests who probably should be in jail instead of being in a retreat, given what it says on the sex offender registry), obviously not. But she should probably serve some and be banned from working with children.
+1 Take her sentence and spread the years out over several pedophile priests. Fine. But the whole "How was she to know not to take non-consensual photos of minors without anyone's permission?" narrative would strain credibility of my cell-phone-owning 6th grader and only beclowns Sullum, Reason, and Libertarianism in an overtly destructive libertine race to the abject bottom.
But then, this is the party of Chase Oliver so maybe it's what the party actually does stand for now.
So basically she was displaying them to others
She was not displaying them to others. She was showing her co-worker a regular adult porn video in the breakroom at the daycare center and the co-worker saw the pictures in the picture roll. For some reason, I don't find that fact makes the behavior any more acceptable to me.
That alone makes her creepy.
I work with all dudes most of the time and we don’t show each other porn on our breaks.
Once again with how the pendulum has swung in the complete opposite direction and broken off.
I've worked job sites with stickers, pinups, nudie calendars, and lewd talk. Been to parties with co-workers and wives/girlfriends, heard the lewd talk there. The lewd talk and bawdy decor was acceptable because... no kids.
Even bringing that sort of thing from the job site to daycare would get you a rightful scolding and even a chiding from your peers. Repeated offenses would get you labeled a creep and ostracized.
The idea of two female daycare employees sharing/watching porn in the breakroom at work? Fucked up.
This take seems suspicious. I find it hard to believe that a jury would convict a young woman of these crimes without there being more to the story. While I agree that it seems odd that this offender might serve more time than an outright rapist, I am pretty much fine with her sentencing if she in fact was taking the pictures for sexual gratification. I’d be fine with violent rapists being locked up for 126 years, too, frankly.
Looks like she tried to cover her own ass by uncovering the wrong ass.
How come no bisexual 18 year old female wants to take pictures of my pubic area? I’m entering my second childhood.
"Lock 'em up and throw away the key." That's been our favorite approach to difficult social problems both real and imaginary. Until recent years you could be sentenced to a long prison stretch for possessing (not selling, mind you) small amounts of some illicit drug, such as a single joint or one crack rock. Progress has been made towards more "rational" or "fair" sentencing for simple possession. On the other hand, some jurisdictions want to categorize as homicide an overdose death caused by fentanyl even when the seller didn't know the product was so adulterated (of course, a large percentage of street drugs are so adulterated).
Not to worry, I suppose, if you have the money and connections to buy pharmaceutical grade fentanyl or coke.
The woman in this story may have been misguided or stupid or genuinely concerned about diaper rashes; I don't know. In any case she doesn't deserve the sentence she received--32 years at a minimum--despite the fact that she didn't commit sexual assault of any kind or internet child pornography. Ordinarily we don't turn stupid teenagers into professional criminals, which is what happens when we lock them up for that long.
But never mind all that. We don't know how to prevent all child abuse, especially when it happens at home. We don't know how to prevent all trafficking in child pornography. Adults do a lot of other things to children that we can't or won't prevent--e.g. feeding them stuff that increases their risk of obesity, diabetes, etc. So it's much easier, as it has been with drugs, to lock 'em up, forget about 'em, and cross our fingers in hope that the problem will go away. It never does, it just mutates into other forms.
What evidence is there that all she did was take photos? That is all there if proof of, but does not by itself mean she did not do anything else. We do not know if she did anything else or not.
She should be somewhere where she can never again have access to children. If that means 32 years in prison, so be it.
Ahh, hard left marxists defending child pornography under the banner of LGBT again. Must be a day that ends in Y.
she did not share them with anyone, and she was not accused of assaulting the girls.
Oh well I guess that makes it ok, huh Jake?
Now seems like the time for this:
Even someone convicted of first-degree rape, which triggers a mandatory 25-year minimum, could end up serving less time than Turenne faces for noncontact offenses that consisted of nothing more than taking pictures.
Ahh I never get tired of hard-left attempts at sleight of hand. You think you're so clever, but really you're just so obvious.
Yea, 25 years if they raped one person once. Now calculate it out for twenty-four counts of rape, and maybe you'll be able to compare the two.
Without consideration of evidence admitted at trial concerning Ms. Turenne's sexual orientation and possession of adult pornography, no rational juror could have found beyond a reasonable doubt based on the appearance of the photos that they were taken for sexual gratification."
Actually, they could. What normal person breaks out the camera and starts creating child pornography, when they could just as easily address the concern with other staff and the parents? What credibility can you give the accused when they wait until they're in front of a jury to suddenly trot out the diaper rash "concern."
The fact that she's in a demographic that is largely made up of pedophiles and pedophile-enablers is highly relevant as is the fact that she carries pornography around with her wherever she goes. Normal people don't do that.
Sex offenders do.
But Watts thinks Turenne's evasiveness and reticence are understandable in the circumstances
Sure Jan.
She was busted with child porn - ALL of little girls. She didn't come up with the whole "diaper rash" excuse until TRIAL. I'll bet every dollar I have that jury looked at the body of evidence, one juror asked the room, "Why didn't she tell them about the diaper rash when she was arrested?" and it didn't take much more deliberation than that. But there's far more than that to make it a finger-snap guilty verdict.
Why take pictures at all when a NORMAL PERSON would simply bring the issue up with other daycare staff and parents immediately when they come pick up their child.
And why strip the children completely? It's not rocket science, you unsnap the onesie, push it up to clear the diaper, and then change the diaper and pull the onesie back down to snap it. Unless the onesie itself is soiled (it happens - but you'd think she'd mention it had that been the case), there's no reason to take it off. Same with the toddlers. Pants off, shirt up, change the diaper, pants on, shirt down. There's no reason to strip them fully naked.
And then, why bring the photos up during her break and flip through them?
You stupid Marxistarians pick the dumbest, most indefensible hills to plant your flag on. THIS is why nobody takes Libertarianism seriously. You're NOT the party of liberty and restrained government and reason. You're the party of pedophiles, prostitutes, drug addicts, career criminals, rioters, and genocidal neonazis.
You're the party of anarchy, nihilism, and amorality.
Now seems like the time for this: https://x.com/AuronMacintyre/status/1511402912043442181
Yup. It would be one thing if the daycare had had complaints of diaper rash while she was working shifts and the employees had been admonished for it or told to document it, but none of that happened.
Right. Again, outdoor and extracurricular activities, kids walk through poison ivy, get ringworm, and occasionally take an errant ball to sensitive places. All of these organizations and more have specific policies to guide amateurs through dealing with these situations. Policies that the amateurs are expected to know and abide out of hand. This woman, supposedly a professional, violated virtually every last one of the rules or steps without even the slightest acknowledgement.
Given that her first defense was that someone sent them to her on WhatsApp and the diaper rash defense only came up after her lawyer had a good long think, if we take her protestation that she did not take them for HER sexual gratification at face value I suspect she was planning on selling them over WhatsApp.
She probably would have gotten less prison time if she had killed these children.
In the age of abortion on demand, they'd probably give her a medal.
Meanwhile, Dems are screaming about how difficult it is to obtain quality daycare.
"Her unimaginable acts stole the innocence of very young children...Sadly, this sentence does not restore their innocence or trust, but guarantees she will never do it again,” said Senior Assistant State’s Attorney Diane Karsnitz.
Babies on the changing table lost their innocence and trust because someone snapped a photo. That's how far out of touch with reality and/or disingenuous the prosecutor is.
She shouldn’t have taken the pictures, but yeah that comment from the prosecutor is grossly hyperbolic.
Exactly. It's like raping someone in a coma. They'll never know or be able to appreciate it - so what's the big deal. Totally harmless.
😐
So, I unless I missed it ... did all 7 of the children in the photos actually have diaper rash ?
If intent doesn't matter ... what about factual evidence ? Did or did not the pictures show diaper rash ?
They mostly did not show diaper rash.
More to the point: Did the jury view the photos and decide whether all the children actually had diaper rash?
I don't want to view those photos and decide for myself. That's the jury's job. Unless at least one side was systematically eliminating parents as well as anyone who ever babysat, at least half of the jury would have enough experience with diaper rash to judge for themselves. If that proved she was lying, she's guilty and should go to prison - but 126 or 32 years is still a ridiculously excessive sentence.