The New York Case Against Trump Relies on a 'Twisty' Legal Theory That Reeks of Desperation
To convert a hush money payment into 34 felonies, prosecutors are invoking an obscure state election law that experts say has never been used before.

Jurors in Donald Trump's trial at the New York County Criminal Courthouse in Manhattan have heard a lot about paying people to keep their mouths shut. The New York Times understandably calls the trial a "hush money case." But both sides in the case, the first-ever criminal proceeding against a former president, object to that characterization, and their dueling interpretations go to the heart of the legally dubious charges against Trump.
When Trump lawyer Michael Cohen paid porn star Stormy Daniels $130,000 shortly before the 2016 presidential election to stop her from talking about her purported 2006 sexual encounter with Trump, that transaction was "not illegal," Trump's lead defense attorney, Todd Blanche, said during his opening statement last week. "Entering into a nondisclosure agreement is perfectly legal. Companies do that all the time….Executives, people who are wealthy, people who are famous enter into nondisclosure agreements regularly, and there's nothing illegal about it."
When lead prosecutor Matthew Colangelo objected to Blanche's gloss, Judge Juan Merchan overruled him, and it is not hard to see why. As a general matter, what Blanche said about nondisclosure agreements was plainly accurate. The same could not be said for Colangelo's description of the case.
"This was a planned, coordinated, long-running conspiracy to influence the 2016 election, to help Donald Trump get elected through illegal expenditures, to silence people who had something bad to say about his behavior, using doctored corporate records and bank forms to conceal those payments along the way," Colangelo said during his opening statement. "It was election fraud, pure and simple."
Contrary to Colangelo's spin, there is nothing "pure and simple" about Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg's case against Trump. To begin with, Trump is not charged with "conspiracy" or "election fraud." He is charged with violating a New York law against "falsifying business records" with "intent to defraud." Trump allegedly did that 34 times by disguising his 2017 reimbursement of Cohen's payment to Daniels as compensation for legal services. The counts include 11 invoices from Cohen, 11 corresponding checks, and 12 ledger entries.
Ordinarily, falsifying business records is a misdemeanor. But it becomes a felony when the defendant's "intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof." Bragg says Trump had such an intent, which is why the 34 counts are charged as felonies.
Bragg had long been cagey about exactly what crime Trump allegedly tried to conceal. But during a sidebar discussion last week, Colangelo said "the primary crime that we have alleged is New York State Election Law Section 17-152." That provision says "any two or more persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor."
In other words, Bragg is relying on this misdemeanor to transform another misdemeanor (falsifying business records) into a felony. But the only "unlawful means" that he has identified is Cohen's payment to Daniels. And while Cohen pleaded guilty in 2018 to making an excessive campaign contribution by fronting the hush money, Trump was never prosecuted for soliciting that contribution.
There are good reasons for that. The question of whether this arrangement violated federal election law hinges on whether the hush money is properly viewed as a campaign expense or a personal expense. That distinction, in turn, depends on whether Trump was motivated by a desire to promote his election or by a desire to avoid embarrassment and spare his wife's feelings.
The former hypothesis is plausible, especially given the timing of the payment to Daniels. But proving that allegation beyond a reasonable doubt would have been hard, as illustrated by the unsuccessful 2012 prosecution of Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards. The Edwards case, which was based on similar but seemingly stronger facts, foundered on the difficulty of distinguishing between campaign and personal expenditures.
Given the fuzziness of that distinction, it is plausible that Trump did not think the payment to Daniels was illegal. In 2018, Trump seemed genuinely confused on that point, arguing that reimbursing Cohen with his personal funds was fine, while paying him with campaign funds "could be a little dicey." According to the legal theory underlying Cohen's guilty plea, by contrast, the hush money should have been treated as a campaign expenditure.
Convicting Trump of soliciting an illegal campaign contribution would have required proving that he "knowingly and willfully" violated the Federal Election Campaign Act. Federal prosecutors evidently concluded that they could not meet that requirement. But to violate Section 17-152 of the New York Election Law, the provision on which Bragg is relying for "another crime," Trump would have had to "conspire" with Cohen to influence an election through "unlawful means," which suggests he knew the payment to Daniels was illegal.
Business Insider describes Section 17-152 as "old," "obscure," and "unused." Reporter Laura Italiano interviewed "two veteran New York election-law attorneys," a Democrat and a Republican, who backed up that description.
"I've never heard of it actually being used, and I've practiced election law for 53 years," said Brooklyn attorney Martin Connor, a former Democratic state senator. "I would be shocked—really shocked—if you could find anybody who can give you an example where this section was prosecuted," said Joseph T. Burns, an attorney for the Erie County Republican Committee. "I would be absolutely floored if you could find anyone prosecuting this in the last 40 years." Italiano adds that "two highly respected law professors specializing in New York election law said the same."
The fact that Bragg is relying on an obscure offense that apparently has never been prosecuted speaks volumes about his eagerness to convert the Daniels hush payment into 34 felonies. That strategy will prove "twisty," Connor said, because "you're having an underlying crime within an underlying crime to get to that felony."
If Trump did not recognize the hush payment as "unlawful," it is hard to see how his "intent" in falsifying business records could have included an intent to conceal "another crime." And that's assuming a purported violation of federal campaign finance restrictions counts as "unlawful means" under Section 17-152.
Bragg's predecessor, Cyrus R. Vance Jr., took a long, hard look at potential New York charges based on the Daniels payment and ultimately concluded they were all too iffy to pursue. While Vance's prosecutors "briefly mulled using a state election law violation," the Times reported in 2022, they rejected that idea: "Since the presidential race during which the hush-money payment occurred was a federal election, they concluded it was outside the bounds of state law."
It remains unclear whether Bragg can overcome these difficulties, which may ultimately be resolved on appeal, assuming the jurors convict Trump. But to do that, they will have to accept Bragg's "election fraud" narrative.
"The entire case is predicated on the idea that there was a conspiracy to influence the election in 2016," Colangelo told Merchan last week. But as Blanche noted, "There is nothing wrong with trying to influence an election. It's called democracy." The prosecution will try to "put something sinister on this idea," he told the jury, "as if it was a crime," but "you'll learn it's not."
In addition to describing the Daniels transaction in painstaking detail, prosecutors have presented testimony about two other payoffs: a $30,000 payment to Dino Sajudin, a former Trump Tower doorman who falsely claimed that Trump had fathered a child with a woman hired to clean the building, and a $150,000 payment to former Playboy Playmate Karen McDougal, who described a year-long affair with Trump. The National Enquirer made both of those "catch and kill" payments, which prosecutors portray as part of a "conspiracy" to promote Trump's election.
David Pecker, a longtime Trump friend who ran the company that owns the Enquirer, testified that he agreed to pay Sajudin and McDougal for the exclusive rights to their stories, expecting compensation from Trump that never materialized. In light of those experiences, he said, he rebelled at paying Daniels: "I said, 'We already paid $30,000 to the doorman, we paid $150,000 to Karen McDougal, and I am not a bank. I am not paying out any further disbursements.'"
The payments to Sajudin and McDougal, Pecker explained, grew out of an arrangement with Cohen and Trump. Pecker had promised to keep an eye out for people peddling potentially damaging stories about Trump and to alert Cohen about them. Pecker also agreed to run positive stories about Trump and negative stories about his opponents. He described that arrangement, which predated the 2016 campaign, as mutually beneficial, and he said he had done similar favors for other public figures, including businessman Ronald Perelman and politicians such as Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Despite that background, Pecker said his impression was that Trump, in seeking to keep Sajudin, McDougal, and Daniels quiet, was mainly worried about the impact their stories might have on the 2016 election, as opposed to the embarrassment they might cause to him and his family. That testimony reinforced the prosecution's claim that the Daniels payment at the heart of the case was a campaign expenditure rather than a personal expense. Prosecutors likewise noted that Pecker's company, to avoid federal prosecution, had admitted making an illegal corporate campaign contribution by paying off McDougal and that Cohen had admitted breaking the law by soliciting that contribution.
Keith Davidson, the attorney who represented McDougal and Daniels when they negotiated their nondisclosure agreements, testified that he thought those deals may have helped Trump beat Hillary Clinton. On Election Night, when it started to look like Trump had won, Davidson texted Enquirer Editor in Chief Dylan Howard, saying, "What have we done?"
This testimony, the prosecution argues, illuminates Trump's motivation in paying off Daniels. At the same time, however, expanding the focus beyond the transaction that Trump allegedly tried to hide by falsifying business records muddies the waters by asking jurors to consider nondisclosure agreements that are not at issue in this case. The prosecution has compounded the potential for confusion by alleging a "conspiracy" that encompassed a lot of conduct, such as pro-Trump coverage in the Enquirer, that was not only legal but constitutionally protected.
That approach reinforces Blanche's argument that prosecutors are trying to portray "perfectly legal" actions as criminal. Trump's lawyers also argue that Cohen, who has figured prominently in other witnesses' testimony but has yet to take the stand, is an admitted liar, convicted felon, and vindictive former loyalist who cannot be trusted. And they say Trump had nothing to do with the alleged falsification of business records. In their telling, Cohen presented invoices "for legal services rendered" that the Trump Organization processed as a matter of course. Trump was busy with presidential duties, they say, and his involvement was limited to signing the nine checks that were drawn from his personal account.
Whether or not you buy that explanation, the charges in this case are based on documents—"just 34 pieces of paper," as Blanche described them—that were produced after the 2016 election. Yet Bragg claims the case involves "falsification of business records to the end of keeping information away from the electorate," which makes it "an election interference case." Given the timing of Trump's alleged crimes, that explanation makes no sense. Likewise Colangelo's claim that Trump committed "election fraud," which is usually understood to mean perverting the election process with phony ballots, illegal voting, or inaccurate tallies.
Trump, of course, argues that Bragg and his underlings are attempting "election interference" by undermining his current presidential campaign with a frivolous criminal case. But even if you take Bragg at his word, he is plainly trying to punish Trump for an alleged 2016 federal campaign finance violation. The Justice Department declined to prosecute that case, and the statute of limitations has since expired. Bragg, in any event, has no authority to enforce the Federal Election Campaign Act, which is why he is resorting to a "twisty" legal strategy that reeks of political desperation.
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Was this not the case when the indictment came out and Sullum ran around with glee about how fast the walls were closing in? Has Koch broken it to him that the Orange Man may be kinda OK now?
Assuming all such articles are categorized under the "Stormy Daniels" category, that does not appear to be the case.
Petty much?
Please tell us again about how someone sitting in Pelosi’s seat turned the 1/6 protests into an attempt to overthrow democracy.
Petty is one thing - abject stupidity is another.
It's all about the symbolism of a man sitting where he doesn't belong taking a selfie. The image implies he forced entry to another person's office. That's not peaceful protesting. Unless you think the college protestors who took over a building and held a janitor hostage were still being peaceful.
You do know he was wasted on peyote, right? A VERY strong halucinagen.
Sullum may not have but Reason pretty much has waited until now to mention the ridiculousness if the case, and then doesn't even mention that Daniels' former lawyer just testified that he pushed her to ask for money because "when" Trump lost the election most of her leverage for a payout would be gone. In otherwords, not attempting to influence an election, attempting to cash in before it became a moot point.
Cancel your subscription. That'll teach 'em.
Larry Flynt's gonna MISS them sockwanking MAGAts!
Waiting until an election year 3 years later instead of handling the charges immediately, with a DA that ran on getting Trump for something, and an administration in DC with all the evidence of Biden's corruption.......
Bragg wasn't the DA three years ago. Financial investigations take time.
And there is zero evidence of corruption in Joe Biden's record. His finances are totally transparent. Trump's are totally opaque, and that is another reason why investigations take so long. You don't believe me? Tell me where the money from his appeal bond came from. Nobody with finances as opaque as Trump would get a low level security clearance to work for a defense contractor but the Trump Cult wants him back in the White House.
Thanks for the laughs.
"...And there is zero evidence of corruption in Joe Biden’s record. His finances are totally transparent..."
Further evidence of charliehall's lack of brain-cells.
Hey, there is chance he is joking.
Nope. charliehall takes his stupidity very seriously.
And there is zero evidence of corruption in Joe Biden’s record.
You . . . you can't be serious.
I'm thinking it may be parody, now.
Great actors don't break character.
On the other hand, neither do complete idiots.
But they're never supposed to go full retard either.
You don't remember that any indication of corruption by Biden is obviously Russian misinformation, right? That's what that letter by all of the intel guys promised us, right?
There are some questionable things in Biden's past, but so far nothing has been able to stick (despite Trump's and his acolytes' years of trying). Perhaps faith-based investigation isn't very effective?
This is my least favorite Trump case, but if the legal basis is as weak as it seems, he will prevail on appeal. Even if the jury convicts him (which he has assured us it will, because it is sitting in Manhattan)...
"...This is my least favorite Trump case..."
TDS-addled steaming pile of shit heard from.
Prosecutors should not bring weak legal cases.
Yeah, nothing ever happens to a democrat when democrats rig the system to protect democrats.
'reeks of desperation'
You are right. Bragg wasn't there. Cyrus Vance was, and he declined to charge Trump.
All I can say is desperation is still better than the blatant corruption that is the documents case Sullum still bandies about as proof of how uniquely evil and guilty Trump is.
Indeed. Cannon should never have been put on the case.
"If you have the facts on your side, pound the facts; if you have the law on your side, pound the law; if you have neither the facts nor the law, pound the table."
Time for the prosecutor to stop pounding the table.
Everyone, sarc has made his ruling.
Now, let him enforce it.
The prosecution is actually putting together a really strong case. Even if the "twisty legal theory" doesn't pan out, there is no way that a jury shouldn't convict Trump of 34 misdemeanors. The records WERE falsified. That is potentially 34 years in prison.
LOL! Stop it, you’re killing me!
I think you are correct that the prosecution is doing a good job making their case.
More side splitting comedy gold.
Or abysmal stupidity.
Hey, even the three stooges had their moments with stupid slap stick comedy.
Um the statute of limitations has run out on the misdemeanors that's why Trump isn't charged with misdemeanors. How exactly would the jury convict him of crimes he cannot be charged with? Are you really that fucking stupid?
Don't be so quick to admit that there are even misdemeanors. Please see my discussion below.
Yes. Yes he is. Stupider in fact.
'reeks of desperation'
Still 'reeks of desperation'
Kruschev is back?
I'm glad we're spending so much chasing bullshit. Today, the second major D was indicted for foreign corruption, but we're to believe that everything Hunter, Uncle Jim, and The Big Guy did was completely legal and not corrupt.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rep-henry-cuellar-and-his-wife-allegedly-took-nearly-600000-in-bribes-indictment-says/ar-AA1o6ase
And the Dems have marginalized the first one. Almost the entire party has called for his resignation. They probably will do the same for the second one, too.
Republicans defend their crooks. Democrats try to get rid of them.
LOL
I know, Charley should start doing a stand up routine.
Yeah they stood real tall for George Santos.
And the Dems have marginalized the first one.
Everyone has known about Menendez's corruption for decades. Decades.
He only got marginalized when he got caught so red-handed, again, that he's now finally politically toxic.
Was he the freezer cash guy? And that was in the 90s.
He graduated to gold bars
"...Democrats try to get rid of them."
charliehall never heard of Chicago.
Or Charlie Rangel.
CHARLIE RANGEL!
Democrats seem to be a crook's best friend these days.
Democrats PROMOTE their crooks. Republicans kick out ACTUAL crooks far more quickly than Democrats admit accusations have even been made.
That explains Trump, lol.
Seek help.
That's a lot of reeking desperation to unpack.
Poor Spiro Nignew... Poor misunderstood, well-meaning, christian nationalsocialist...
"The actions I took in Congress were consistent with the actions of many of my colleagues and in the interest of the American people," Cuellar said.
So... I hear him saying that he has knowledge of many other Democrats in Congress taking bribes from foreign entities.
A good prosecutor would offer a plea deal for info on other criminals.
Holding the trial, and interfering with Trump’s campaign, are the only goals here.
Bragg would have been happy to have had the trial last year. The Trump team follows a scorched earth strategy whose goal is to delay all trials until he is back in the White House.
Seems like a smart strategy.
Gee, imagine someone falsely accused of something attempting to avoid being convicted of that false accusation! The chutzpa!
""until he is back in the White House.""
And you want to prevent that. Right?
If Bragg was interested in a trial for what he actually believed was a crime, the trial would have been in 2016. He ABSOLUTELY would not have been happy with a trial last year.
Apparently, you are not aware that Bragg wasn't the DA in 2016.
Did his predecessor not know this horrible crime had taken place and immediately file charges the second after Trump walked out of the White House for the last time?
What’s that you say? No they didn’t and they didn’t bother to charge him until last year? Funny that.
Because they knew that the alleged acts were not crimes.
This indictment should have been quashed, lik,e the indictment against Rick Perry should have been quashed.
Anyone else smell that reek? It's reminding me of . . . desperation.
"a "twisty" legal strategy that reeks of political desperation."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay03xc_mYH4
Sad attempt by Sullum to appear even- handed or objective. People have been talking on the ridiculous nature of this case almost as soon as the indictment came out. “Intrepid investigative journalist Sullum hot on the tail of this case.”
Next, he will find the real killers.
Does it occur to you that he doesn't give a shit about your opinion and has been trying to recruit people who might just vote for a Libertarian candidate instead of someone who will be writing Trump in as a candidate for the next 30 years?
Mean, nasty, ugly old Sullum, kicking sand in poor little Donnie's pink face while's sittin' there on the Group W bench. Sad.
Who wrote this and what have they done with Sullum?
If Cohen was guilty, Trump is guilty.
If you believe that, your understanding of both law, and basic logic, isn't up to 4th grade standards.
1) Cohen might not be guilty despite his plea.
2) And it's not true that if party A is guilty, party B is necessarily guilty. The actions taken by each aren't identical, and they can possess different levels of intent.
But not indicted or convicted. You can't change that now.
To convert a hush money payment into 34 felonies, prosecutors are invoking an obscure state election law that experts say has never been used before.
That is false. The ONLY election law even hinted at in the charges is a FEDERAL law that every federal agency with the authority to enforce has stated would not be violated if Trump had actually done everything he is accused of doing.
You didn't finish reading the article.
HE didn't?
"The Justice Department declined to prosecute that case, and the statute of limitations has since expired. Bragg, in any event, has no authority to enforce the Federal Election Campaign Act, which is why he is resorting to a "twisty" legal strategy that reeks of political desperation."
"Bragg had long been cagey about exactly what crime Trump allegedly tried to conceal. But during a sidebar discussion last week, Colangelo said "the primary crime that we have alleged is New York State Election Law Section 17-152.""
That has never been prosecuted, doesn't involve a state law, and is completely outside of the jurisdiction of the prosecutor . . .
Some people might be tempted to call this 'lawfare'.
Gosh, that's incredible. You need to inform the judge right now!
“Bragg had long been cagey about exactly what crime Trump allegedly tried to conceal. But during a sidebar discussion last week, Colangelo said “the primary crime that we have alleged is New York State Election Law Section 17-152.””
Should this not have been specified in the indictment itself?
The indictment can not be legally sufficient.
What, are you a lawyer now?
If a wouldchuck could chuck woulds, how many woulds would a wouldchuck chuck?
But to do that, they will have to accept Bragg's "election fraud" narrative.
Fortunately, this is New York, New York, so a very significant percentage of the population (and likely jurors) came into this with the belief that Trump only won in 2016 due to fraud. So it works out nicely for Bragg to keep saying "election fraud" without charging him for it. Makes it easier for the jurors to vote to convict for improper reasons.
The New York Case Against Trump Relies on a 'Twisty' Legal Theory That Reeks of Banana Republic Political Lawfare.
No more walls are closing in Sullim?
Not even an acknowledgement of how many times you were wrong?
Of course, there is the threshold question of whether the records in the indictment actually constitute business records under N.Y. Penal Law § 175.00:
"Business record" means any writing or article, including computer data or a computer program, kept or maintained by an enterprise for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting its condition or activity.
It is natural to assume that "business record" means any record kept by a business, but note the condition that the record must be kept by a business "for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting its condition or activity."
While we won't know for sure what the records are until they are actually introduced into evidence (which oddly for a business records case has not happened during the first 2 weeks of trial), a glance at the indictment leaves room for doubt as to whether or not the records will fit the relevant legal definition. Indeed, it is hard to see how records of Trump’s use of personal funds to pay a bill from his personal lawyer related to matters that do not involve the Trump Organization constitute “business records” of the Trump Organization.
Consider Count 8:
AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:
The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about April 13, 2017 through June 19, 2017, with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof, made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, an invoice from Michael Cohen dated April 13, 2017, marked as a record of Donald J. Trump, and kept and maintained by the Trump Organization.
Note that the invoice is "marked as a record of Donald J. Trump” and not a record of any Trump Organization entity (like, say, the Trump International Hotel Las Vegas). This marking most likely indicates that the invoice is a personal bill received at the Trump Organization office that was marked as a personal record of the boss so as to distinguish it from the business records of the Trump Organization.
Consider Count 9:
AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:
The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about June 19, 2017, with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof, made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, an entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump, bearing voucher number 858770, and kept and maintained by the Trump Organization.
Note the “entry in the Detail General Ledger for Donald J. Trump”, which at first glance would appear to be Trump’s personal ledger for personal expenses, and not a business ledger of any Trump Organization entity.
Or Consider Count 10:
AND THE GRAND JURY AFORESAID, by this indictment, further accuses the defendant of the crime of FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS IN THE FIRST DEGREE, in violation of Penal Law §175.10, committed as follows:
The defendant, in the County of New York and elsewhere, on or about June 19, 2017, with intent to defraud and intent to commit another crime and aid and conceal the commission thereof, made and caused a false entry in the business records of an enterprise, to wit, a Donald J. Trump account check and check stub dated June 19, 2017, bearing check number 002740, and kept and maintained by the Trump Organization.
Note that the check is a “a Donald J. Trump account check”, which at first glance appears to be a check drawn on Trump’s personal account using personal funds.
It is hard to see how Bragg will be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these (or any of the other 31 records in the indictment) were maintained by the Trump Organization "for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting its condition or activity."
Yeah, but he's definitely guilty of the real crime here: Being Donald J. Trump in the First Degree. Which is definitely a felony in the State of New York.
He is guilty of attempting to drain the swamp. That's why so many in DC and NY hate him. He exposes their criminality and cronyism. And he is vulgar, the worst sin of all.
Four years wasn't enough. It's a pretty deep swamp!
Will eight years be enough, do you think?
No, but it’s a start. So you will have your precious swamp for years to come.
I like how you've trotted out your bizarre legal theory here--after seeing it shot full of holes by actual lawyers over in Volokh.
God loves a tryer.
If you think there is a logical flaw in this argument, fire away. So far no one has demonstrated that the records were kept by the Trump Organization "for the purpose of evidencing or reflecting its condition or activity". A mere assertion that a line of reasoning is "bizarre" is not a legal argument, nor does it do anything to demonstrate that the line of reasoning is invalid.
You sound like Misek.
No, he doesn’t.
For it is ritten:
Acts 19:6 - And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
1 Corinthians 14:19 - Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1 Corinthians 13:8 - Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
See also the Daemonologie in Trump's Wholly Bauble, $60
but, but, but … “The bill has come due on the Trump Administration’s hollowing out of our public institutions” – DNC platform pg 3 paragraph 4.
This is what happens when anyone in D.C. threatens the “New Deal” Nazi-Empire and tries to re-assert a USA.
Democrats commit to forging a (yet another) new social and economic contract with the American people—a contract that ... promotes shared prosperity ... affirms housing is a right and
not a privilege ... health care is a right not a privilege ( pg 14 paragraph 3 )
And next year it'll be a pony and universal income is a right..
F'En [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] plain as day.
Needless to say their "contract with the American People" apparently cannot actually occur by 'contract' (A Nazi-Membership club) but can only happen by 'armed-theft' (Gov-Guns).
Armed robbers making 100M excuses for themselves.
It's total horseshit. A political prosecution and election interference. Bragg should be disbarred.
It is just like the prosecution of Rick Perry.
The problem with all this lawfare is that it’s elected Democrats bringing these absurd cases. The fact that they ran for election on getting Trump by any means should disqualify them in the first place.
I don’t see any legit Argument that Trump committed any crimes in this case. I expect a hung jury at worst or a not guilty verdict at best. The jury will hopefully honestly do their duty. If not, it will be laughed out of court at appeal.
The problem for the prosecutors in these cases is that this case is clear proof of the lawfare and that these cases are vindictive and Trump is simply being targeted for being a pompous idiot and a threat to institutions that democrats favor.
I am wondering why elected Republicans are noty bringing absurd cases against Democrats in retaliation.
That is exactly what I would do if I were a district attorney or a state's attorney. Just charge Democrats using absurd legal arguments, without letting the law, Brady v. Maryland, or the U.S. Constitution stand in the way.
Do you remember Maraxus?
Because I will never forget Maraxus.
Here is Maraxus, writing in support of prosecuting Rick Perry for abuse of power.
https://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=161693&sid=bf1e964b2d36e629e063999b4953f65a
Back in 2014, this was an extremely fringe belief. There was no way Maraxus’s ideals could become mainstream.
Now it is clear that the Democratic Party adopted Maraxus’s ideals.
The Democratic Party is the party of Maraxus, now.
In the animated series Gargoyles, there is a character called Demona, whose schtick was vengeance against those who hurt her and her kind.
To deal with Maraxus, we must become the party of Demona!
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth will leave the whole world blind and toothless.
Variations on that statement have been appearing for over a hundred years, according to people that have searched for the origins of it. (Gandhi was purported to have said, "An eye for an eye will leave the world blind.") That is what you are proposing. Retaliation, "fighting fire with fire," and so on, can quickly become a vicious cycle.
The first problem with your plan is that you have not proven, objectively, that all of these cases are "absurd." They might be, but they might not be absurd, or some of them might be absurd while others are not. To then retaliate by bringing cases against Democrats that you know to be absurd risks being in entirely in the wrong, rather than trying to obtain righteous justice.
The second problem is the violation of the Constitution. Abusing prosecutorial power, for any reason, is an unconstitutional violation of people's due process rights. Even if fully justified in believing that Donald Trump is having his due process rights violated, that does not justify violating the Constitution in retaliation. Why even have a Constitution when you're willing to violate it to get even with an enemy? The precedents and institutions that are supposed to prevent those kinds of violations of due process need to be applied all of the time, or else they become too weak to protect you when you need them. You are acting as though they are already too weak to protect you, so you just need to seize power by any means necessary at this point. Is that it?
Lastly, everyone could use a reminder of The Golden Rule. "Treat others as you would like them to treat you." Let me state it again with added emphasis:
Treat others as you would like them to treat you.
This is not an instruction to do nice things to people that are nice to you. It is definitely not permission to do bad things to people that do bad things to you. It is a rule to think about how you would want to be treated if you were in someone else's place, and then you are to act towards that person in that manner. Would you want someone to walk up and punch you in the face when you aren't threatening them in any way? What if, in their mind, you deserved it? Would that make it okay? If not, then you should not punch someone in the face when they aren't threatening you, even if you think that they deserve it.
Likewise, if you would not want a prosecutor to abuse their power against you just because you are a political opponent, then you should not do that either.
Why is this so hard to apply in politics?
We were dragged across this line bt Alvin Bragg and Michael McCrum.
You may have missed his point.
Summary: STOP resisting the Nazi-Empire! /s
If you resist the Nazi-Empire you're just retaliating! /s
There is resisting tyranny while continuing to hold the moral high ground, and then there is becoming a tyrant oneself in order to beat the existing tyrant. In the later case, nothing changes. There would still be a tyrant in control.
Getting rid of you democrats is the only thing that will save America. Your kind have brought it to that.
What makes you think he is a Democrat? Libertarians would probably shoot back.
Well, I am a Democrat. I have no problem admitting that.
[talking now to Republicans and other Trump fans, not a reply to ObviouslyNotSpam]: If you want to know why I am a Democrat instead of a Republican, libertarian, independent, or something else, I will tell you. Donald J. Trump. I had registered Republican when I was first able to vote, and continued as a registered Republican for 25 years. After Trump won and I saw how sycophantic virtually all Republican politicians had become, I was disgusted enough to re-register as a Democrat in time for the 2018 midterms. I will never go back to being a Republican.
Your side's slavish support of the worst person to ever hold the office brought it to that for me.
...because of course the "Trump Administration hollow[ed] out [our] public institutions"!
You were never a Republican. You were a RINO if any part of what you said is even true. I've been here long enough to know your mentality long before Trump was even on the ballot.
You were never a Republican. You were a RINO...
It's funny that you jump to the RINO claim so quickly like so many others. Here you are, pro-choice and everything, yet you support the party that doesn't want anyone pro-choice in their party if they can help it. They only accept pro-choice members of Congress in the party in order to get a majority. Also, they want Senators that talk a good game in their Democrat leaning home states about being pro-choice in order to win over independents, but then will still vote to confirm pro-life judges when it comes down to it. Was Susan Collins really fooled by Brett Kavanaugh talking about settled precedent? She just wants her voters to think that she was that stupid.
So the sycophantic behavior of the Dems toward Obama wasn't a problem when you later registered as a Dem?
So the sycophantic behavior of the Dems toward Obama wasn’t a problem when you later registered as a Dem?
No one has abased themselves for Obama the way that so many Republican politicians have for Trump. DeSantis mocked his primary opponents that dropped out for going "to kiss the ring," but guess what he'll be doing before the convention if he hasn't done it already. Lindsey Graham? Called Trump a kook and that the GOP would lose the moral authority to govern if they nominated Trump. Ted Cruz called Trump "a sniveling coward" for a post of Heidi Cruz with a grimace on her face vs a smiling Melania. First Trump had said, “Be careful, Lyin’ Ted, or I will spill the beans on your wife!” The caption to the pictures was, "No need to ‘spill the beans. The images are worth a thousand words." Add in Trump's longtime friend, Pecker, and the hit piece on Ted Cruz's father being linked to the JFK assassination in the Enquirer, and Cruz famously didn't endorse Trump at the convention. But he was manning phone banks for Trump soon enough and hasn't let up his sycophancy since. Then, how many GOP senators and House members blamed Trump for Jan.6 in the days after, but went back to supporting him? Even Bill Barr says he will vote for Trump after everything.
I've never seen that level of putting party over country in my lifetime. No Democrat, not Obama, not Bill Clinton, has had the kind of cult of personality and obedience that Trump developed.
He’s a democrat. Satisfied?
Getting rid of you democrats is the only thing that will save America. Your kind have brought it to that.
"Getting rid of" huh? You are saying that it is time for the Civil War 2.0 now. Dispense with the Constitution, elections, and everything else in the way of Trump regaining power and be done with it.
I wonder if you ever did believe in a republican form of government or any of the words of the Declaration of Independence. To do so requires one thing of a person: to trust your fellow citizens enough to accept being on the losing side of an election.
Trump couldn't even handle winning the 2016 election without claiming that 3 million illegals casting fraudulent votes is why he didn't get more votes than Hillary. There was never any chance he was going to accept losing in 2020 without making up whatever bullshit might stick to the wall to claim victory. It is just enormously sad that so many of his followers believed him.
Yeah right. You were never a Republican. No Republican would support garbage like the people puppeteering Biden. And based on your past statements, you’re a committed leftist.
Yeah right. You were never a Republican. No Republican would support garbage like the people puppeteering Biden.
You got me. I'm not a True Scotsman either.
And based on your past statements, you’re a committed leftist.
Like most posters here, you don't know what a real "leftist" is. A "leftist" would be advocating for a universal basic income. Insist on doing away with all private health insurance and going single payer. Hell, a leftist wouldn't think that went far enough and would say that the UK's National Health Service would be a 'good start'. They'd want to make universities tuition free. Probably not just state ones, also. Universal pre-K, paid parental leave, re-write most of the laws regarding collective bargaining to be far more union-friendly,... need I go on?
I'd listen to people arguing for those things, but I'd also listen to people opposing them. Even when I share the concerns about inequality of the left, I don't often agree with their proposed solutions, or at least not the degree of what they want.
Sure, I've grown more 'progressive' or 'liberal' (in the American sense) over the years and probably would have left the Republican Party eventually even without Trump. But I only went as far as registering Democrat and voting straight Democrat due to Trump. (2018 was the first time I ever did so.) Trump also broke my streak of voting for the GOP presidential nominee 4 times in a row.
When I was young and first registered, there was still a tiny corner of the 'big tent' GOP for 'liberal' or 'Rockefeller' Republicans like I was. By Obama's second term, though, moderate Republicans were already a vanishing breed. You can probably count the remaining ones with one hand.
And no, I don't expect you to believe that. Nor do I care. You can live in your partisan bubble if you want. It's a still a free country, despite what you think. At least, I hope it will be if Trump actually does win.
Conservatives just lump everyone they disagree with into the "other" box no matter what their actual ideas are. I'm a redneck hippy. Guns, drugs, sex and rock n roll, ye haw! But when I disagree with them I'm a "leftist" and when I agree with them they think I'm a republican. Mind you I voted republican in 1988, 2016 and 2020. I may okay not do so in 2024. Strategically Biden is the better choice to bring the nation tumbing down and turning Americans against the idea of big government.
The Declaration of Independence was a ‘declaration’ ‘of’ ‘independence’ from the British Government. Nothing in that ‘declaration’ is a Supreme Law of the Land.
And the “Dispense with the Constitution” is EXACTLY why Democrats need to be gotten rid of (out of politics). Go read the DNC platform. Do you see anything in it honoring the US Constitution? The Democratic party doesn’t believing in the US Constitution. They call it Racist. They call Supreme Court Justices who enforce it dictators-in-robes. As their platform states in black and white they want “shared prosperity” (i.e. Communism). They want the human right to take/steal whatever they want. The entire party is founded on [WE] mob RULES (gangs) … not … A Supreme Law of the Land (principles) and as their platform spells out the [WE] mob RULES governing ideology is to be led into [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism].
And the parties processes are 1-on-1 with the [WE] gang RULES mentality building racist gangs, sexist gangs, class gangs ..... any identity-gang they can build (even poop-hole poking gangs) to support their Nazi-Empire.
No where does the party or it's members support honorable principles like *earning* what you want and being able to keep what you *earn*. It's as plain as day they are nothing but a criminal gang electing Al'Capone to D.C. while they paint their armed-theft as just ?charity?.
Yeah, their talk about "getting rid of" a long list of people they don't agree with doesn't fill me with a warm fuzzy feeling.
It's not as-if nobody chooses to be treasonous to a USA and support the Nazi's 'armed-theft' out of their own selfish greed. Sympathy for criminals is exactly how this nation got so bankrupt and crooked.
You disagree with their "living constitution" idea. So do I. But they are still your fellow citizens. I am not on board with political violence from either side. It's not the way things should be done.
Yes. I still have faith [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] can be stripped of political power before it's too late and some other national self-defense tool has to come into play but that faith in a *real* USA (constitutional) certainly isn't growing in fact it's diminishing with every 'yet-another' UN-Constitutional political stunt from this Administration.
How do you propose stripping your opponents of political power? The only way to do that legitimately is by outvoting them at the ballot box in fair elections.
It isn't a new thought on my part, but more and more, it is looking like the whole "election fraud" thing is an excuse to do away with elections. It goes something like this: "we can't trust that elections are valid [because we don't always win them], therefore we just need to have control to 'save' the country for real Americans [us]."
You don't get to just declare that you are right and that your ideas of what the U.S. is and should be must be how government will work or else. It isn't even about 'winning' debates with political opponents. It is about the voters being the ones to decide how government should work. If you can't convince enough people to vote the way that you vote, then the government won't work the way you want it to. If you don't accept that, then you don't accept the fundamental principle of the Founding.
The USA is a *Constitutional* Republic NOT a 'democracy'.
Do tell; What is the purpose of a Supreme Court if 'votes' define the nation?
You have been completely indoctrinated by Nazi-BS and have no clue (down-right WRONG) about what the "fundamental principle of the Founding" is.
Or more than likely do know but as a treasonous traitor to the USA want your 'democracy' to conquer it for your [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire.
What do you think a republic is? Representative government where the people vote for who will represent them. How did we end up with a Constitution? Delegates of the people that had been chosen by voting then voted on whether to ratify it. (Rhode Island held a popular referendum at first, rejecting the new Constitution. But it later chose delegates for a convention as the other states did and ratified it.)
I had to double check, but I didn't even use the word "democracy" in what you replied to so breathlessly. (Even though I do hate that pedantic distinction you and so many try and draw.) I've never heard someone like you criticize a Republican when they use "democracy" as a description of the U.S. form of government.
The goal of the Founding was to create a nation where the government would have the "consent of the governed," as it said in the Declaration of Independence. Yes, the Declaration isn't law, in any sense of the word. But it was a statement of purpose. The Constitution (replacing the failed Articles of Confederation) is the means by which the United States achieved that purpose. (Imperfect as it was at that time.) All the powers of government can be traced back to the people voting for those that would then make laws, choose judges to interpret law and the Constitution itself, and so on.
If you don't understand all of this, then I can't help you anymore. If you think that our government should be chosen somehow other than through the people voting, then please explain how that is supposed to work.
Poor, anxious TrueRepublican nationalsocialist. Those NY Jyooz kicking sand in its little pink face...
Republicans (especially Trump) is against [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] BTW.
It makes a lot more sense when you realize that the goal isn't to prosecute the clown of some kind of crime.
It's succeeding though. You're entirely distracted, aren't you.
Poor worried girl-bullying Trumpanzee... Sad.
Trump is Pro-Choice BTW. Do you say anything that isn't a blatant lie?
I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and wouldn't lose any voters, ok? It's, like, incredible.
I just wonder why Trump supporters continue to try and prove that Trump was correct when he said this. (Clearly, he wasn't necessarily implying that he wanted to commit crimes or had, but that if he did his supporters would still vote for him.)
I can imagine that if Trump did shoot someone in the middle of the street, on camera, that there would be Trump supporters claiming that he must have been justified in doing so, regardless of what the video showed. Somehow, it had to all be a deep-state conspiracy to keep him from draining the swamp again.
Just think about the things that aren't being seriously disputed in this case:
Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal were paid over a hundred thousand dollars each leading up to the Nov. 2016 election for their stories of having sex with Donald while he was married to Melania. (In at least one case while Melania was pregnant with Barron.) Michael Cohen made the payments and later received "legal services" fees equal to or greater than those payments.
Now, do any of you that support and plan to vote for Trump doubt that he had sex with these women as alleged? Note that this also was happening around the time of the release Access Hollywood pussy grabbing tape. Also note how Trump has a long history of bragging about beautiful women wanting him. Seemingly, he also went so far as to impersonate people that knew Trump to play up how desirable he was to journalists. See "John Miller" and "Carolin Gallego" for those instances. "John Barron" had, in 1984, been a Donald Trump "spokesperson" telling a Forbes writer responsible for the Forbes 400 list about how much money Trump had, in another strongly suspected case of Donald trying to get good press for himself by pretending to be another person.
Of course, he also almost literally traded up for a newer model as a trophy wife twice, so fidelity isn't exactly in his character.
Is this salacious and sensationalist? Absolutely. Is it a distraction? That is in the eye of the beholder. Trump's integrity is more than relevant to his ability to be President. What he would do to keep a positive image of himself in public is relevant. His credibility in the other cases against him are affected by how he explains and defends himself from the facts of this case.
If none of this raises doubts in your mind about Trump, what would?
Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal were paid over a hundred thousand dollars each leading up to the Nov. 2016 election for their stories of having sex with Donald while he was married to Melania. (In at least one case while Melania was pregnant with Barron.) Michael Cohen made the payments and later received “legal services” fees equal to or greater than those payments.
which is not a crime.
Did I say that it was?
You're asking them to think. It's not going to work...
I think just fine. Think all these silly useless attacks on Trump which are 99% of the time is just a down-right lie and when they aren't just a lie are 99% completely useless information about a persons job performance.
I think .... What a pathetic display of desperateness to trash the most Libertarian and Constitutional President we've had in over a decade ( A De-Regulation Committee? I mean common retards. ).
Course it's pretty obvious all this 'emotional' chicken-pecking is not only the #1 character strength of leftards ([WE] gangsters RULE!) it's mostly just the fact that Trump did try to De-Regulate their precious 'armed-theft' Nazi Empire (as stated exactly that on the DNC platform) but leftards can't admit it to themselves let alone anyone else. Denial and Self-Projection 101.
...the most Libertarian and Constitutional President we’ve had in over a decade...
...
Deregulation by itself is not libertarian. It is just pro-business. And not necessarily in a good way, if the regulations that are cut simply make it easier for large corporations to dominate smaller competitors through anti-competitive practices.
The constitutional part of your statement is laughable, given how he wanted to use his authority and his VP to affect the certification of the Presidential election. The President has absolutely zero authority over election results. The VPs job is to open envelopes so that the EVs can be counted. That's it.
Besides, how many times were Trump executive actions overturned by a friendly Supreme Court?
You summarized.
Gov-Gun Regulations = Competitive Behavior.
Attempting to Ensuring Election Integrity = UN-Constitutional.
Obama writing immigrant policy by E.O. = So Constitutional that the friendly Supreme Court insisted it stand despite referring to congress.
Double-Down on that stupidity; it's all you've got to sell.
But it's a sin. Several sins according to the magical sky fairy.
Joe Biden: “Secondly, we’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration — President Obama’s administration before this — we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics.”
I just wonder why Biden supporters continue to try and prove that Biden was just misunderstood when he said this.
Funny since there is literally a mountain of evidence that that is exactly what Biden and Obama used to win; yet we’re still waiting for Trump to shoot someone on 5th Ave and walk away from it.
I just wonder why Biden supporters continue to try and prove that Biden was just misunderstood when he said this.
Because that is obviously what is true?
But one of the things that I think is most important is those who haven’t voted yet, first of all go to IWILLVOTE.com to make a plan exactly how you’re going to vote, where you’re going to vote, when you’re going to vote. Because it can get complicated, because the Republicans are doing everything they can to make it harder for people to vote — particularly people of color — to vote. So go to IWILLVOTE.com.
Secondly, we’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration — President Obama’s administration before this — we have put together I think the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics. What the president is trying to do is discourage people from voting by implying that their vote won’t be counted, it can’t be counted, we’re going to challenge it and all these things. If enough people vote, it’s going to overwhelm the system.
You see what’s happening now, you guys know it as well as I do, you see the long, long lines and early voting. You see the millions of people who have already cast a ballot. And so, don’t be intimidated. If in fact you have any, any problem go to — and I don’t have the number but it’s 833-DEM-VOTE… Call that number. We have over a thousand lawyers, over a thousand of them, they’ll answer the phone, if you think there’s any challenge to your voting. Go to 833-DEM-VOTE, dial those letters on your phone. That will get you the assistance that we have already put in place.
Funny since there is literally a mountain of evidence that that is exactly what Biden and Obama used to win;
I think you mean "fire hoses" of evidence, not mountains. Team Trump had all kinds of people looking for evidence of fraud before Jan. 6. They came up with nothing that could convince any judges that it was worth considering. Even in the years since the election, they haven't come up with anything that holds up to scrutiny outside of Trumpland and that can convince more than the conspiracy minded.
...yet we’re still waiting for Trump to shoot someone on 5th Ave and walk away from it.
He did worse. He tried to get Pence and Republicans in Congress and in key states to ignore the certified results of the election and declare him the winner. So far, he has walked away from that. If he does, it will be because he hasn't lost any support from his voters because of what he did.
I don't see anything in there about his statement not being true. He essentially accused the Republicans of trying to ensure election integrity and then gave out back-door phone numbers for anyone who's willing to commit election fraud for him.
What is obviously true is governors voided election laws. Judges pretended it wasn't their jurisdiction. IP connections from China were flat-out ignored. Trumps vote count being deleted on live TV was flat-out ignored and the very validation of mail-in voting that it matched in-person votes was wildly violated.
And you like to throw all that out the window and call it just "fire hoses" while you accuse the accusation by call the effects "worse than shooting someone on 5th Ave".
You know what is really a "fire hose"? Pretending Facebook Ads cheated an election and using YEAR, yes YEARS of investigation to get to the end of that joke.
And so, don’t be intimidated. If in fact you have any, any problem go to — and I don’t have the number but it’s 833-DEM-VOTE… Call that number. We have over a thousand lawyers, over a thousand of them, they’ll answer the phone, if you think there’s any challenge to your voting. Go to 833-DEM-VOTE, dial those letters on your phone. That will get you the assistance that we have already put in place.
He gives people a number to call that he says will have lawyers ready to go to help you if you have problems casting your vote. How is that helping people commit fraud?
What you are doing right now is that you are trying to convince us that Joe Biden straight up talked about the need to commit voter fraud during an interview on a podcast that he knew would be available for anyone at all to listen. That assertion doesn't pass the laugh test. I really shouldn't have bothered quoting the full context, since you won't take this seriously anyway. How about this one?
We’re going to take over Washington, D.C. We’re going to federalize. We’re going to have very powerful crime, and you’re going to be proud of it again.
There! Trump admitted that he was going to commit crimes while in office if he wins! "Very powerful crime" at that! Claim that Trump was just being misunderstood or had misspoken! You can't, can you?!?
What is obviously true is governors voided election laws.
What governors "voided" election laws? What happened when Republicans challenged these supposed voiding actions in court?
Judges pretended it wasn’t their jurisdiction.
You'll need to cite cases here, or hell, even just one specific example would do. Then I would know if you really know something about this or are just repeating a talking point.
IP connections from China were flat-out ignored.
What IP connections "from China" were "ignored"? Who ignored them? What were these Chinese IP addresses connecting to? Details again, please. And again, just one example of what you're talking about would work.
Trumps vote count being deleted on live TV was flat-out ignored and the very validation of mail-in voting that it matched in-person votes was wildly violated.
What vote count was deleted on live TV? Are you talking about final official results, or preliminary results that could have been wrong but were corrected before anything was finalized? And what do you mean about "validation of mail-in voting that it matched in-person votes was wildly violated"? That doesn't make sense grammatically to the point that I can't even guess what you mean.
If I haven't been clear about this already, I'll say it plainly. You are repeating vague allegations and talking points, not making an evidence based claim here. There is nothing for me to check to see if it is true. There isn't even a specific claim being made for most of it. You're playing pigeon chess as usual.
https://americanfaith.com/watch-mike-lindells-voting-fraud-documentary-absolute-proof/
China connection logs at 1:37
Not surprisingly erased from mass media
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKaSX9SKR1A
The Youtube recording of Trumps tallies getting deleted on Live TV
*Erased from existence*
- Perhaps someone else still has a source to get this from.
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/the-confusing-and-different-emergency-powers-over-elections-in-states/
And Biden and his Nazi-Thugs will continue to censor media and erase all the evidence (WHY?) as you will continue to deny it right in it's face until it's all wiped-up. Because that's what a criminal regime does.
I'll look at the Mike Lindell thing later when I have time. But I will also look to see how that compares to the guy that sued Lindell for not paying up on his "Prove Mike Wrong" challenge he had going at his "cyber symposium."
I don't care that a video of Trump's total dropping in a live TV broadcast exists somewhere, whether it is being suppressed by the mass media or not. It still doesn't prove anything. TV reports were made based on numbers they were getting in as they were reported from individual counties or precincts. But those were not final, verified results. What matters is whether the final, official results were the right totals. I already said that, but you are still stuck on the live TV thing. I mean, points get taken off the board in a football game if review overturns a score, right? Would that be fraud?
I only had time to skim the one about emergency authority over elections, but I noticed that everything said there was about how primaries were affected. What about the November general election do you thing was illegal in regards to COVID measures?
“It still doesn’t prove anything.” is exactly the BS. No matter how much fish is on the dock the left will keep pretending they smell nothing. Even when the ‘fish’ jumps out and bytes them on the nose like Georgia ‘finding’ 6,000 UN-counted votes it all gets washed away with BS *excuses* (just as you do about live-TV deletions).
Lindell was sued because he offered $5M to anyone who could dis-prove his election-fraud claim and lost on the grounds that showing a security breach (China log-ins) didn’t conclusively demonstrate election fraud in detail totally ignoring the security breach proof.
COVID doesn’t justify this kind of breach and UN-counted votes. When mail-in voting was being implemented the very ‘validation’ of it being used was that it matched the in-person count. That very ‘validation’ basis was violated. Trump deserved a FAIR election and that’s all he asked for.
Yet; Leftards just keep trying to prosecute the accusations. The last thing they want is to actually investigate the accusations. That alone says more than anything else.
All the J6 psycho-babble indoctrination is nothing but ‘cover’/’distraction’ meant to avoid addressing election integrity/investigation.
Prosecute the accusation instead of investigate for the truth. Exactly how the Lindell case, Dominion case, etc, etc, etc went. There was no search for truth just BS slander chargers prosecuting the accusation.
Yours are the cries of someone that simply doesn't want to meet the burden of proof that there was enough fraud to affect the results of the election. Why is the burden yours and not mine? Because all of the procedures, audits, and verification that is standard practice in every election led to Biden winning more Electoral Votes. Trump and his lawyers had all of the same opportunities to challenge those results in appropriate forums (during canvasing and through lawsuits if necessary) as every candidate in every race for decades. Trump wins in 2016 - no one says anything at all about mail in votes being a problem. Trump loses in 2020 and suddenly it is. And he got less of the mail in votes only because he bad mouthed it for most of a year. So much so, in fact, that Steve Bannon is on audio stating that the plan would be to declare victory on Election night before many of the mail in votes had been counted.
These people played you like a fiddle.
Poor frightened little Gingham Dog...
Poor upset Calico Cat...
Pity the poor libertarian bystanders struggling not to burst out laughing!