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Free Speech

Should Free Speech Pessimists Look to Europe?

Calls from the left and right to mimic European speech laws bring the U.S. to a crossroads between robust First Amendment protections and rising regulation.

Jacob Mchangama | 4.30.2024 10:19 AM

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A magnifying glass over a map or Europe, surrounded by the EU flag. | Illustration: Lex Vilena
(Illustration: Lex Vilena)

Free speech pessimism is on the rise among America's elites.

"Free Speech Is Killing Us," read a 2019 op-ed in The New York Times. Recently, an article in The New York Times Magazine concluded, "It's time to ask whether the American way of protecting free speech is actually keeping us free." George Washington University Law School professor Mary Anne Franks has written two books arguing that the First Amendment is "deadly" and "eroding our democracy."

This First Amendment rejection is often combined with envious praise for European-style speech regulations—rules seen as mature democracies taking proactive steps to shield themselves from the deluge of hate speech and disinformation that is a consequence of the unchecked right to free speech.

The allure of European regulation is understandable—they claim to protect democracies from the supposed harms of unregulated speech. After all, who can look at the world of the past decade or so and claim that free speech does not entail serious risks and even occasional harm?

However, this narrative overlooks the critical freedoms that American free speech protections provide. Furthermore, this pessimism is particularly dangerous at a time when the federal government is banning major platforms like TikTok, states are cracking down on pro-Palestinian protests, and online platforms are being forced to comply with vague hate speech laws.  

These actions prompt a pivotal question: Would mimicking European free speech restrictions actually make America a more cohesive, tolerant, and just society? Let's imagine.

It's 2025. Two demonstrators burn an effigy of the newly inaugurated President Donald Trump, labeled "Death to the Dictator." They're quickly arrested and convicted for threats against the president.

Such punitive measures against symbolic speech are unthinkable under America's First Amendment protections, but it happened in Denmark. At a 2021 lockdown protest, three men burned an effigy of Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen with a sign calling for her to be "put down." The men were initially arrested for high treason, a charge which was eventually downgraded to threatening a public official. After being acquitted in the first instance, they were later convicted by the High Court and sentenced to 40 days in prison.

Consider this hypothetical: A Republican-controlled Congress passes a set of laws to "strengthen the respect of republican values," permitting the federal government to issue decrees that designate and ban "extremist groups." Immediately, Congress bans Antifa and other far-left groups, arresting several members.

That may seem impossible to Americans, but in 2021, France's National Assembly passed a law aimed at reinforcing respect for "republican values" and combatting radical Islamic groups. However, this law was also used against more than 30 groups, including a collective of environmental activists.

Under a European framework, the next Biden administration wouldn't have to "jawbone" Big Tech to fight misinformation. Congress could simply pass a law that blocks online content deemed false or misleading and blacklists adversarial state-sponsored media outlets.

That sounds rife for abuses of power, but again, Europe led the way. In 2018, France implemented a law to combat the "manipulation of information," empowering courts to block false or misleading statements during election periods. Similarly, in 2022, the European Union suspended the broadcasting licenses of Russia Today and Sputnik. It also mandated that social media companies and search engines stop users from sharing broadcasts from these outlets in all 27 member states.

In this alternate America, states like California could go further in holding platforms legally accountable for user-generated hate speech while prosecuting residents with views deemed offensive on race, immigration, gender identity, or religion. 

This is not a far-fetched dystopia. The 2017 German NetzDG law ordered social networks with over 2 million users to remove manifestly illegal content within 24 hours or face fines of up to 50 million euros. Predictably, a satirical magazine was one of the first casualties of the law.

Three months after a man from Hamburg called a local politician a "dick" on Twitter, now X, six police officers arrived at his house to seize his devices. The head of Germany's Federal Criminal Police Office warned that anyone who posts hate messages "must expect the police to be at the front door." As of 2022, over 8,000 criminal investigations were opened, and over 1,000 charges were made for illegal online speech.

The European Digital Services Act (DSA) aims to provide rules-based order in the so-called digital "Wild West." Although it includes more transparency and user rights, the DSA mandates platforms to act decisively against "illegal content." This covers very broad categories of speech, not to mention criminal defamation and blasphemy still enforced in countries like Italy, Denmark, and Austria. Such regulations not only curb free expression but also hand immense censorship power to the state, chilling the digital public square.

When riots broke out in France after police killed a North African teen, EU Commissioner and top digital enforcer Thierry Breton warned that "when there is hateful content, content that calls…for revolt," if social media companies don't act immediately, then the DSA allows authorities "not only to impose a fine but also to ban the operation" of the social media platform. Breton is not alone in promoting online dirigisme. French President Macron and his digital minister have also threatened social networks with blanket bans.  

Political polarization is at an all-time high in the United States, amplifying the risk of such restrictive speech laws being adopted here as well. Threats to freedom of speech regularly emanate from both the left and the right, and without strong First Amendment protections, public officials on both sides would be unchecked in their partisan attempts to suppress dissenting voices, revisiting the oppressive measures of the Sedition Act of 1798 or the Red Scares of the 20th century.

The First Amendment is not without its critics and challenges. The alternative, however—a weakened commitment to free speech—would almost certainly lead to a society that is less tolerant, democratic, enlightened, innovative, and free. Indeed, even the most pessimistic among us can find hope in a robust and principled commitment to free speech. It is this robust protection that has fostered a resilient and diverse public discourse, capable of correcting its excesses without succumbing to authoritarian impulses.

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NEXT: The Genocide Question

Jacob Mchangama is the founder and executive director of The Future of Free Speech, a research professor at Vanderbilt University, and the author of Free Speech: A History From Socrates to Social Media.

Free SpeechFirst AmendmentSocial MediaEuropeFranceGermanyEuropean UnionHate SpeechRegulationDemocracy
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  1. Restoring the Dream   1 year ago

    "The allure of European regulation is understandable—they claim to protect democracies from the supposed harms of unregulated speech. After all, who can look at the world of the past decade or so and claim that free speech does not entail serious risks and even occasional harm?"
    I can. This guy works for a free speech center?
    Any risks from free speech are a drop in an ocean to the harm from government controlled speech, which is the foundation of an unfree country.

    1. Zeb   1 year ago

      If "Democracy" needs that kind of protection, then it is worthless and will always be corrupted. Or it's just a word used for cover for technocrats afraid of what you might get from actual democracy.

      1. Rob Misek   1 year ago

        Discard a constitution that guarantees freedom to emulate the European cesspool of fascists and puppets?

        Censorship instead of free speech.

        What’s not to like?

    2. Rossami   1 year ago

      Which was "this guy"'s actual point. Good lord, have you never heard of a rhetorical question?

  2. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

    Freedom is slavery!

  3. Longtobefree   1 year ago

    I wish I had the time to search out all the quotes from those claiming the 'far right gun nuts' were crazy for saying that after the 2nd amendment was gutted, "they" would come after the 1st.

    1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      The Left had a love affair with the First Amendment, until the Right figured out it was good for more than protecting religion. Then the left decided that free speach wasn't all that great. Funny how that happened. Now they sound like Republicans from the 80's and 90's.

      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

  4. Brandybuck   1 year ago

    When I was a fresh young college kid, the culture of free speech was so engrained into the American psyche that the only way we would ever abolish it would be over pornography, because we are also a very "puritan" nation. And while porn has led the way for a lot of erosion of speech and press liberties, it turns out it wasn't the real danger.

    The real danger turns out to be people who don't like what other people say. Obvious in hindsight, but I should have seen it coming. For all of my life there have been people who said "they shouldn't be allowed to say that", or other somesuch. I just never imagined the US Constitution would be powerless against such busybodies. Oh how I was wrong!

    Both the right and the left are in the vanguard of whittling away at free speech. Different ways of doing it, but both sides (boaf sides) want to control what you can say or write. Online restrictions are called for. Abolish internet freedoms, regulate every aspect of social media (hell, even calls to nationalize social media!), can't tell dirty jokes at work, can't criticize Trump at work, can't mock Sleepy Joe at work. Replace "work" with "school" or "public space" as you will.

    Not all of this is through legislation. Little of it actually is. But it's the general prevailing attitude that gets you banned from Reddit or your videos taken down from YouTube. Or fired from work. Or expelled from school. But it's reaching congress and its' only a matter of time before the legislation comes. It's already coming via states like California and Florida. Opposites in most things, united in the quest to control what people say.

    We need to fight back. With woodchippers if need be. Liberty is nourished with the blood of judges fed through woodchippers! Yes, this too is a free speech issue. You youngsters might not remember that Reason got subpoenaed for a woodchipper comment. Thankfully Reason pushed back. Most other places would have gladly handed over the names and IP addresses of the people involved.

    Woodchippers! Take the damned porcupine off the LP flag and replace it with a woodchipper! Rename PorcFest to ChipFest!

    I think most posters in the comment section are absolute idiots and tools of Trump, but dammit they have the right to speak freely in these forums following the basic rules of the private forum. They should also be able to speak without any rules in the public sphere, short of minimal restrictions against libel, slander and incitement.(violence).

    1. JesseAz   1 year ago

      So you went with both sides are equal. Not shocked.

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        Well, both sides want speach bans. Just for different things. Porn? Sex Education? Gay Shit? Saying bad things about Israel? Any of this sounding familiar?

        1. Dillinger   1 year ago

          gay shit is totes the same as effecting election results.

          1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

            What the litteral fuck? Are you 5? Must we only compare the efforts to censor free speech that have happened since 2016 and only those that are equally bad according to some imaginary scale you place them on? Must the level of effort put in be equivalent as well? Must the process made toward the goal be equal?

            Tendancies toward censorship don't need to be measured to determine who is worse. If you want to stop the voluntary association of people gathered for something you think is wrong then you are shitting on the first amendment just like someone who wants social media to not talk about certain diseases or political movements.

            So what if your shit is dry and pebble like and theirs are loose and wet that spread all over. Shit is shit.

        2. Dillinger   1 year ago

          affecting lol

        3. JesseAz   1 year ago

          I see you have the leftist narrative down. As most things on your list are in regards to speech of employees operating in schools.

          And saying bad things about Israel? You mean arrests for trespassing of mobs assaulting and damaging property they don’t own. Good little leftist narrative. Act Blue must be proud. Can even thrown in a little free speech kidnapping after last night.

          Good work I guess.

          But yes. Let’s compare government induced internet censorship on social media to not teaching kindergarten kids that there is no biological sex.

          Let’s equate the two.

          1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

            Fuck you and your name calling. We already know you support any right wing censorship for some vague reasons you claim aren't religiously motivated.

            1. JesseAz   1 year ago

              The voices in your head tell you this? Find me once supporting white wing censorship lol. And I'm not fucking religious you retarded leftist fuck. Im just not anti theist either. Or should I call you DoL?

              What actual right wing censorship are you even crying about? All I see in your fucking list is CNN narratives.

              1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                Oh, now I have to find one of many that you deny exist. I've better shit to do than bother with that. If you don't remember right wing censorship then you are smoking some grade A top shelf shit.

    2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      Woodchippers! Hell yes! I want to join the 3rd Woodchipper Brigade turning censors and fun police into mulch for the Tree of Liberty!

      1. Minadin   1 year ago

        We prefer the term 'funfetti'.
        Thanks, Management.

    3. Sevo   1 year ago

      "I think most posters in the comment section are absolute idiots and tools of Trump,..."

      Adolescent TDS-addled shit heard from.

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        But he's right.

        1. Sevo   1 year ago

          No, he's not.

          1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

            Yes he is.

            See how fun this is.

  5. Restoring the Dream   1 year ago

    Ain't it interesting that misinformation got to be a thing when Donald Trump proved immune to lefty bs? Hmmm.

    1. ObviouslyNotSpam   1 year ago

      Sorry, it's not always about you, Donald.

      Disinformation has been a feature of international non-warfare for generations. But it really got going even before Trump switched from lifelong Democrat to Republican. Pretty much around the same time a former intelligence officer seized power in a certain US adversary state, I reckon.

      1. Bill Dalasio   1 year ago

        Pretty much around the same time a former intelligence officer seized power in a certain US adversary state, I reckon.

        Around the same time being....1999?!

      2. Rossami   1 year ago

        The ngram for disinformation is interesting. While it does predate Trump, it first spiked during the Reagan administration, then spiked again during the second half of the Obama administration. So not well correlated with the party of the president. But somewhat correlated to whenever the R's control one house of Congress.

        Note that disinformation itself has been a long-standard feature of politics all the way back to the Founding. I am merely commenting on the popular media accusations of it.

        1. ObviouslyNotSpam   1 year ago

          Needless to say (?), the rise of the Internet has also had some role to play in this...

  6. LIBtranslator   1 year ago

    Just now His Exalted Holiness Lord Mayor Saddiq Tayyip Khan of London ordered the voters who elected him to censor, delete and forget all about the recent alleged sword attacks by well-meaning berserkers. Canadians are only now learning about the poor victim of mental illness who murdered pedestrians in a sword spree years ago. His lawyer is demanding an apology for insinuations that his client might be held accountable! Showing a vid of religious fanatics beheading other fanatics–not the beheadings themselves–will getcha in a heap ‘o trouble Down Under. Americans can learn from their betters with no Bill of Rights.

    1. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

      In spite of Comstock?

      1. Its_Not_Inevitable   1 year ago

        Was gonna say...how does Comstock tie into this?

  7. TJJ2000   1 year ago

    One of the many ?blessings? of having a [WE] mob (‘democratic’) ruler in charge. The USA can be what-ever the [WE] mob decides it’ll be. No need to ensure Individual Liberty and Justice anymore. The USA has been conquered by ‘democracy’ and [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] (no coincidence those are both born of the same party; as well as slavery).

    What 1st Amendment. [Our] democracy doesn’t give a sh*t about some old racist document of what the USA is. It and you will be exactly what the [WE] mob says you’ll be. /s

    Maybe the USA isn't a 'democracy'. Maybe it's a *Constitutional* Republic.

  8. Ron   1 year ago

    claiming both sides by making up a fictional story of how the republicans would suppress opposition forces while democrats are actually doing that today. crazy shit

    1. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

      That’s called the sarc gambit.

      1. JesseAz   1 year ago

        Drunk takes pawn.

        1. Don't look at me!   1 year ago

          Something, something white knight.

          1. JesseAz   1 year ago

            Drunk goes into castle after concert with white knight.

    2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      Sure, the right is a bunch of angels and never ever tried to censor anything. Nice delusion you've got there.

      1. TJJ2000   1 year ago

        but, but, but ... It's for [our] children! imaginary ones too. /s

        Versus Democrats in Congress and the White House commandeering mass-media. Yeah; there is a scale difference there.

        1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          Sure, if your historical perspective only reaches back to 2010 then the right is only rattling a dull saber while the left goose steps all over us. But some of us are older than 30 and remember back farther.

          Go back to the 80s and 90s when the religious right was calling the agenda and the DNC was fighting for actual free speech. They were as terrifying as the left is today. They no doubt will return to those ways when they are calling the agenda again.

          1. CountmontyC   1 year ago

            So you have to go back 25-40 years to find Republican censorship that is still not close to comparable to the current Democrat censorship desires? As i recall the Republican "censirship" of the 80's and 90's was more not selling adult level material to children ( or at least requiring warning labels). I don't recall them outright banning much. At least i don't remember an actual government action banning anything. Naybe you remem something?
            Oh and as I recall it was Reagan who ended the Fairness Doctrine ( compelled speech). A mighty blow for free speech that allowed Rush Limbaugh to flourish.

            1. Gaear Grimsrud   1 year ago

              The Republicans in those days were indeed assholes. What they didn't do was weaponize government to prosecute their political opposition. That started with Obama.

              1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                Hmm.. Not so much. Maybe they weren't weaponizing the federal government but local school boards and city councils were on their radar and pressured into caving to their demands. They managed to get a good number of schools, mostly in the south, to give Creationism equal time with Biology.

            2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

              I have to go back to the time because it's the last time the right was in power. The left is in power now. So they are the control freaks. When they lose their place at the top then the right will become the control freaks like they did before. They will start saying the quiet part out loud again.

              By the way, the right started off in the late 70s by going after porn and gays. Sound familliar?

              1. CountmontyC   1 year ago

                So there was no GW Bush Administration nor a Trump Administration? The real reason you have to go back that far is twofold.
                1) The Republican party hasn't been censorious. Especially if you are talking about using government power.
                2) You are hoping that people won't bother to actually check the historical record and simply accepts your assertion without evidence. Again I ask for any examples of Republicans using government power to censor. Let's compare and contrast Republican censorship vs Democrat censorship.

                1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                  Bush Jr ran as a “Compasionate Conservative”, code for a NeoCon who gave the left whatever they wanted. Trump is a centrist populist who ran as a Republican because their primary system is easier to manipulate. Also Hillary was the chosen one for the DNC and everyone knew it from 2012 onward.

                  Right now a “bipartisan effort” to ban “anti Semitic speech” is making its way through congress. It has equal sponsorship from those on left and right. If you don’t think that is using government to ban speech then you are no longer of any use to me.

                  As for older attempts you realize that Tipper Gore led a bipartisan effort to ban certain music and later attempts to ban violent video games and rap music were also bipartisan. That means both sides.

                  1. TJJ2000   1 year ago

                    Indeed.
                    https://www.coons.senate.gov/news/press-releases/senator-coons-colleagues-introduce-bill-to-address-antisemitism-on-college-campuses

                    Using the 1964 Civil Rights Act as an excuse and implemented in Commie-Education. Gotta love those Commie-Camps.

      2. Zeb   1 year ago

        The right has certainly had their censorship campaigns, largely for “morality”/”decency” type things. But today’s left seems to have made censorship a fundamental tenet of their belief system.

        1. TrickyVic (old school)   1 year ago

          Back then it was about censoring words as Zappa described it, and images (porn).

          Today it's about censoring opinions.

          Both are bad, but one is worse than the other.

        2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

          When the right was goosestepping through the 80s and 90s the left loved the First Amendment and the right had no use for it. Now it's just shifted as the pendulum swung to the left. As the right regains power they will simply swap places again and the left will rediscover the first amendment.

          1. JesseAz   1 year ago

            Yes. Because it wasn't Al Gores wife lobbying for labels on music CDs. Are you fucking retarded?

            1. TJJ2000   1 year ago

              Excellent point. I would've never guessed that one. It'll never stop amazing me how many of these 'blame republicans' pointers always ends up being past [D] agenda's with a little research.

              "The Senate hearing, which began Sept. 19, 1985, was orchestrated by the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC), a group headed by then-Senator Al Gore’s wife Tipper"

              1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                Just because Al Gores wife was smart enough to get in front of a movement of conservative Christians and yell, "there they are, let's get them" doesn't mean it was a left wing deal. Sure they had their share of pig ignorant southern religious types to demand all sorts of sin be criminalized the Religious Right took that ball after the Gores disappeared into the land of hippies and captain planet and ran it hard.

            2. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

              Blah blah blah headed by Tipper Gore. So fucking what. It was a Right Wing Christian effort that Tipper got ahead of just like the Clinton’s did later. Triangulation bitch. That’s how Clinton stayed in office, he did more for the conservatives than George Bush Jr. The Gores were doing the same. When the angry mob comes get in front and yell “let’s get them!”

      3. Ron   1 year ago

        the author had no example of right leaning censor ship except for what she fantasied about. which is what i was referring to. that said the right has only talked about age appropriate materials nothing is censored or banned from adults.

        1. Zeb   1 year ago

          Are there no longer any conservatives who want to ban obscenity? That's certainly a traditional conservative position.

          1. JesseAz   1 year ago

            I dont know of any. Nor is it a plank of their party unlike the Dems open and public support of censorship.

            1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

              Seriously. You seem to be able to forget what's happening in Florida and Texas. Inconvenient Truths I guess.

              1. JesseAz   1 year ago

                What is happening? Be specific in your accusations. Stop using Rachel Maddow as the formation of your statements.

                1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

                  You are useless. Go back to your Republicans and join in their festival of sin banning. Libertarians don't need your kind anymore.

      4. Sevo   1 year ago

        Did you drag that strawman all the way from home, or find it along the way?

      5. JesseAz   1 year ago

        I see you're missing the evidence the poster was mentioning. Good lil leftist. You did well.

    3. Quicktown Brix   1 year ago

      Republicans would probably join the dems to ban conservative speech with just enough to get to 50%+1.

      1. JesseAz   1 year ago

        Sad but true.

  9. Dillinger   1 year ago

    >>The allure of European regulation is understandable

    you may have chosen the wrong field.

  10. ObviouslyNotSpam   1 year ago

    Answer: No.

    One reason is the same reason why the US cannot adopt the European approach to gun violence: there's a Constitutional Amendment relating to it.

    Congress can't simply "pass a law" concerning speech restrictions any more than it could do so concerning guns. "Most people" don't like free speech (of others) in the same way the same people don't like the gun rights (of others). Amend the Constitution if you feel that strongly about it. But, good luck with that.

    1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

      Congress can’t simply “pass a law” concerning speech restrictions any more than it could do so concerning guns.

      Why not? What's going to stop them? The Constitution?

      1. ObviouslyNotSpam   1 year ago

        Not by itself.

      2. TJJ2000   1 year ago

        A lawless (treasonous politicians) Democratic Nazi-Empire in D.C. does pose a direct threat to the USA.

        Glad you took notice of that.

        1. sarcasmic   1 year ago

          Get help.

  11. Sevo   1 year ago

    "Should Free Speech Pessimists Look to Europe?"

    No.

    1. Zeb   1 year ago

      I have no idea how to interpret that question. What's a free speech pessimist? If it's someone pessimistic about the future of free speech, then looking to Europe as a cautionary example seems reasonable.

      1. JesseAz   1 year ago

        Based on the article it is those who think free speech will destroy democracy.

        1. Sevo   1 year ago

          That is my understanding.

  12. COINTELPRO   1 year ago

    Would like to hear this constitutional angle debated by Reason fans:

    Seems like it would be constitutional to have maximum First Amendment speech rights for “citizens”, but governing officials should have some restraints.

    The First Amendment (part of our original Bill of Rights) was designed to “restrain” unconstitutional-authority by government officials. This was a wartime governing charter to restrain officials even during wartime.

    Fast forward to the 21st Century: public school professors on college campuses are government officials. The students are the “citizens” under First Amendment law. Students should maximum speech rights to lawfully protest but shouldn’t public professors (government officials) be banned from imposing their religious views or other views onto students (citizens)? Especially when a professor can retaliate with authority over their students.

    On another constitutional controversy: from 2017 to 2021 Trump was an absolute master at (legally) inciting citizens to commit violence but using the First Amendment to shield him from any accountability. In that equation Trump is the government official not the citizen, but Trump cited the First Amendment – not to restrain the government but legally incite violence.

    Throughout American history, courts have generally ruled that the “listener” of speech that then committed a crime was criminally culpable but this is the first time a president has been so irresponsible with his words.

    Since presidents, members of Congress and other officials have such greater responsibility with a bully pulpit – shouldn’t they be held to a higher standard than regular citizens?

    For example: On January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, even Secret Service, Capitol Police, FBI, the military and local DC police were confused over chain-of-command orders since the Commander-In-Chief incited the entire starting months before in 2020.

    Nancy Pelosi’s husband was almost killed because Trump incited citizens to commit violence. People have been beaten up at his rallies incited by Trump. When Trump suggested ingesting industrial cleaning bleach to treat Covid, all the bleach manufacturers had to put out emergency warnings not to drink their products.

    The First Amendment (part of the original Bill of Rights) were designed to protect citizens and “restrain” government authority. Not to protect the most powerful government official inciting violence.

    Shouldn’t someone fortunate enough to be president, member of Congress or on the U.S. Supreme Court have a higher responsibility than regular citizens posting on social media?

    1. Sevo   1 year ago

      "...since the Commander-In-Chief incited the entire starting months before in 2020..."

      A-1 certainly allows ignoramuses to make such imbecilic comments and A-1 allows the rest of us to point out that:
      You.
      Are.
      Full.
      Of.
      Shit.

    2. TJJ2000   1 year ago

      Do you think the 1st Amendment prohibits government from ensuring election integrity?

      I think you need to actually read the 1st Amendment.
      "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

      The J6 protest was exactly, "to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

      Nice try at spinning that one entirely on it's head.

      1. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

        Come on, redress of grievances doesn't include sitting at Nancy Pelosi's desk. It doesn't matter if they were lured in or pushed in by the FBI or both. They fell for it and turned what WAS a redress of grievances into an amazing win for the left.

        I used to follow a site for Stoic Philosophy that never mentioned politics that happened after the fall of Rome until Jan 7th when they, along with anyone who understood reality, parroted the official line about riot and insurection.

        Clearly the power of the Federal government was put on display, they not only showed the velvet sack that their mailed fist was kept in they took it out of the bag, put it on and waved it around. All because some Trump supporters were too stupid to realize the FBI was playing them like a fiddle.

        Those half wits screwed EVERYTHING up. Biden and his people say the part they are supposed to keep quiet not only out loud but they shout it from the rooftops. He's openly mentioned using mitary force against civilians AND NO ONE STOPPED HIM. They don't care anymore because on Jan 6th the left fucking won everything.

    3. MrMxyzptlk   1 year ago

      Theoretically the First Amendment is supposed to stop government officials from infringing on the mind and soul of anyone under their power. No preventing or preferring any publishing, speaking or worshiping. The phrase "congress shall make no law" was written when Congress was supposed to be the most powerful body and the President was sort of their bitch. That relationship has changed of course because legislators don't want any responsibility.

      After the Civil War the idea of Congress shall make no law was extended to mean Congress and the State Legislatures shall make no law regarding blah blah blah.

      As time has gone on and the Federal Executive office has gained a lot of power along with most of the State Executives and they have made a shit ton of lesser offices with powers to make policy to spread more of the blame and the courts have extended the Congress and the State Legislators shall make no law to to No one in the employ of a government at any level shall make either law or policy regarding blah blah blah.

      But at no point, to the best of my knowledge, has any court ruled that public employees should shut the fuck up, even though it is a good idea.

      The problem isn't that they talk, the problem is they have power and their words imply that the power will be used in a certain way. When leftists told people to become ungovernable after Trump was elected they were promising they would use their power to support those who became ungovernable, which they did.

      Did Trump imply the same when he told his people to fight for what is right or left or whatever he wanted them to fight for? I suspect most of the Jan 6th folks expected presidential pardons on some level. But he lost the fight and his supposed fellow party folks didn't do shit and left them swinging in the breeze.

      Instead of stopping in them from talking we need to take away the power. That's the real problem. They can make things happen behind the scenes by making promises to politicos lower on the food chain, like mayors and police chiefs. Like governors and wealthy folks who want to feel like they are a part of something. Then when they get what they want they provide those people down the food chain with federal aid.

      Cut the purse strings and their words won't mean shit.

  13. COINTELPRO   1 year ago

    re: Sevo

    Why couldn’t those fortunate to hold governing authority simply debate the message without attacking the messenger?

    A official simply debating any issue (without name-calling and without temper tantrums) doesn’t infringe on anyone’s speech.

    Any official can debate any topic with every point of view, but simply act like grownups. How does that infringe on an official’s freedom of speech?

    This restriction would only apply to government officials, not citizens. The First Amendment was designed to protect citizens and restrain government officials. Even Trump’s attorneys tried to have him act as a grownup but he ignored his own lawyers when governing.

    1. Sevo   1 year ago

      So mean tweets? Is that your problem?

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