Banning TikTok Would Give the Feds Way Too Much Power
"It's a disturbing gift of unprecedented authority to President Biden and the Surveillance State," said Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.).

TikTok might be in trouble: The U.S. House of Representatives approved legislation that would force ByteDance, the popular social media app's Chinese parent company, to sell it to a U.S.-based firm, or else it will be banned in the United States. The vote was 352–65. President Joe Biden has indicated that he will sign the legislation, so now it's just a matter of whether the Senate chooses to act.
The margin of the vote's passage and the bipartisan nature of the legislation might make people think that it's popular. This is certainly the framing that Republican proponents have adopted. Oren Cass, a former adviser to Sen. Mitt Romney (R–Utah) and a national conservative policy thinker, described libertarians who oppose the anti-TikTok legislation as "badly isolated" and "hurting their credibility in the conservative coalition."
1/ Can't be overstated how badly isolated libertarians are in this TikTok fight, and how much their kicking and screaming is hurting their credibility in the conservative coalition. ????
— Oren Cass (@oren_cass) March 12, 2024
On the other hand, three of the most important political and media figures on the right oppose the legislation. They are Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk, and…former President Donald Trump. Each has railed against the federal government's misguided efforts to police social media. Musk said the bill would result in "censorship and control." Carlson fretted that the feds could use this new authority to take similar action against X (formerly Twitter). Trump, who previously supported banning TikTok, is now worried it would hurt him with young people in the 2024 presidential election—definitely a flip-flop, but at least a directionally correct one.
The bill was also opposed by some of the most conservative members of the House (as well as some of the furthest left): Rep. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.), Rep. Matt Gaetz (R–Fla.), and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R–Ga.), but also Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D–N.Y.), Rep. Ayanna Pressley (D–Mass.), Rep. Ro Khanna (D–Calif.), and so on.
What this really shows is that the battle over TikTok is not a battle between libertarians and everyone else; on the contrary, it's a battle between various members of the bipartisan Washington, D.C., establishment who see direct government intervention as the answer to every problem and another group of people—libertarians included—who recognize that this power is likely to be abused.
Various dubious arguments have been deployed against TikTok, but the establishment's logic this time is that the app's Chinese owners are beholden to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and thus it poses a national security risk. To give this argument some credit, it is true that the CCP is an authoritarian menace; the Chinese government absolutely pressures TikTok to censor content about Tiananmen Square, the religious sect Falun Gong, and criticism of Chinese President Xi Jinping. Americans who get their news primarily from TikTok should keep this in mind.
Of course, the U.S. government has also pressured American tech companies to censor content on social media. Thanks to the Twitter Files, the Facebook Files, and other independent investigations, we know that multiple federal agencies—including the FBI, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Department of Homeland Security, and even the White House—instructed social media platforms to take down contrarian content relating to elections, Hunter Biden, COVID-19, and other subjects. When Joe Biden decided the companies had been insufficiently deferential to his pandemic-related dictates, he accused them of killing people and threatened to take action against them.
If Congress really wanted to do something about government censorship of content on social media, legislators could rein in the feds. They could reduce funding to agencies that engaged in wrongdoing, they could fire wrongdoers, and they could craft guidance for bureaucrats.
Instead, they are singularly focused on TikTok.
The legislation passed by the House would apply to any social media company that is designated as a "foreign adversary controlled application." U.S. law currently defines China, North Korea, Russia, and Iran as foreign adversaries. The bill further stipulates that an app is deemed to be controlled by a foreign adversary if it satisfies at least one of three different criteria: if it is headquartered in one of those countries, if one of those countries owns a 20 percent stake in it, or if the app is subject to "direction or control" by one of the foreign adversaries.
It is easy to see how this legislation creates a blueprint for taking future action against social media companies beyond just TikTok. In the wake of the 2016 election, Democratic lawmakers, mainstream media pundits, and national security advisers all accused Facebook of being complicit in Russia's various schemes to sow election-related discord online. Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said Russia was more responsible for Hillary Clinton's loss than Trump was. The thrust of this argument was that Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg had allowed his platform to be compromised by Russian misinformation.
It's true that if the TikTok bill were to become law today, the federal government would not likely take direct action against Facebook or X tomorrow. But the language in the bill—"direction and control"—is exceedingly slippery. It is not difficult to imagine a future where vengeful bureaucrats accuse a disfavored app of promoting contrarian views and punish it accordingly.
"The House ban of TikTok is not securing our nation," wrote Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) on X. "It's a disturbing gift of unprecedented authority to President Biden and the Surveillance State that threatens the very core of American digital innovation and free expression."
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But which federal government are we most worried about, ours or theirs?
Yes.
lol we have met the enemy and it is all those guys.
China has a unitary, not a federal govt.
If media controlled by foreign powers is bad, would this principle apply against state media from other countries?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-radio-and-tv-12764014 for example.
How about banning all state-owned media in the US, and that would include foreign states? Base that on the First Amendment. State control could be treated as equivalent to state ownership. The trick would be properly judging which private operators are under state control.
I used to hear the World Service overnight on a station licensed to a state university. My libertarian kneejerks were that:
1) All universities should be privatized.
2) No state institution should ever have been granted any broadcasting licenses, beyond what the military and emergency services need.
3) BBC contained religious content at the time, and a US state’s governmental department was violating the First Amendment at taxpayer expense, IMNSHO, by retransmitting it. Let people buy a shortwave receiver if they wanted that, or stream it online once that was available. It wasn’t all Church of England, either. No atheists seemed to show up on Word of Faith segmentts, to my recollection. I don’t think that would pass the Lemon test.
South Carolina's PBS TV station once had on it's late night programming a rebroadcast of Deutsche Welle.
You know who else wanted a Deutsche Welle?
🙂
😉
Precisely.
The set of talking points around social media has been pretty chaotic. They are against the bills giving user rights passed due to federal collusion with social media. Here they are complaining about federal collusion. There is no consistency.
No, not for this bill. But the libertarian standard should be to maximize discussion and disallow government collusion of censorship. It seems to be hit or miss at this site.
We know government is still colluding with most social media. We know CISA still exists. Yet a state defending the rights of citizens to use fairly open discussion sites for politics is seen as a negative.
In other policies Reason has defended sanctuary laws of states, even ones that disallowed citizens to contact ICE.
No, the libertarian standard should be to maximize property rights.
Yes to both, I would think.
First off, state control of any media source in the US is not acceptable under our Constitution. No exceptions. The under the table government control of social media is wrong and needs to be prosecuted. Those who authorized it should not be reelected to office. The over the table government control of the Tic Tok ap is wrong. Those who voted for the law should not be reelected to office. It doesn't matter if the media source is icky. Congress shall make no law. Pretty strait forward.
Second, Sanctuary Laws are a 9th and 10th amendment right under the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Keeping the federal governments nose out of certain law enforcement issues at the state level is legal. State and local governments should do it more often on idiotic federal laws.
The EPA would dry up and blow away if all 50 states decided to be Sanctuary States for industry the federal government discriminates against. Federal gun control laws could be ignored if state governments dropped a pair. Hell, imagine if a significant number of states told the IRS to piss up a rope. What would the feds do? Send F-16s to collect taxes?
The problem we have is most state level elected pricks want to someday be federal level elected pricks and hope desperately to be appointed to head federal agencies. So they won't drop a pair because they don't want to set the precedent that would deprive them of their power mad dreams. Thus they fold to federal pressure at the drop of a hat. Any hat.
Our govevernment wants it banned or turned into an American company not out of fear of spying by China but because they can't spy on us with it or control it thru their form of censorship
the IC does not currently have their tentacles in it
Trump, who previously supported banning TikTok, is now worried it would hurt him with young people in the 2024 presidential election—definitely a flip-flop, but at least a directionally correct one.
That implies that he'd support the ban if he didn't think it would hurt his chances in the election. Hardly a principled stance.
It's true that if the TikTok bill were to become law today, the federal government would not likely take direct action against Facebook or X tomorrow. But the language in the bill—"direction and control"—is exceedingly slippery. It is not difficult to imagine a future where vengeful bureaucrats accuse a disfavored app of promoting contrarian views and punish it accordingly.
Or a politician in power declares the opposing party to be a threat to the nation.
Sure, don't criticize the hundreds of politicians that voted for the bill. Go after one guy who doesn't support it but is against it for the wrong reasons.
Those hundreds aren't running for president. Besides, reasons matter. If he's saying the right thing because it helps him get into power, what happens once he attains that power? Without principles there's no reason to expect him to not change his mind again.
The hundreds that support the bill actually have a vote on whether or not it becomes law. The one you're going after does not have a vote and may not even be elected. Somebody who opposes this bill and is principled would actually criticize the people who are voting for this bill instead of criticizing somebody who has no vote and is against it, regardless of the reasoning.
That's a lot of conniptions over me saying something that isn't even wrong. You're offended that I didn't take offense at what offended you. It's like being married all over again.
I suffer no conniptions nor offense. I’m just pointing out how your own ire is misplaced.
You seem to be the embodiment of letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. It's good that Trump agrees with you, but it's not perfect because he does it for reasons you disagree with. The people who disagree with you and have reasons you disagree with? No comment, even though they are the ones responsible for voting for the thing you disagree with.
In case you’re not aware, sarc has an extreme case of TDS. EVERYTHING is about Orange Man Bad.
Dems bad. GOP bad. Depends on the issue. I'm a libertarian, dammit!
Huh. And here I thought you were big on giving credit to someone who “changes their mind when presented with new facts”.
Guess not.
Swamp Dweller Donnie turned on a dime when a big contributor told him not to support this legislation.
Of course the Trump Cult will chalk his move up to principle.
I don't blame Trump for changing his tune after what our government did to censure him from American based social media. Tiktok even though controlled by China may be free'er than anything in America now other than X and that is a sad thing to have to say
I think Trump might understand that he and Truth Social would be next. We can't allow an Insurrectionist to control the means of communicating; I can hear them yelling in a year if this does pass.
Actually, the government did nothing to censor Trump. He was kicked off of Twitter for spreading false information, and for inflammatory comments and posts.
So far as I know Twitter isn't "the government".
Actually, the government did nothing to censor Trump.
Really? Appeals court slaps Biden administration for contact with social media companies
"The officials have engaged in a broad pressure campaign designed to coerce social-media companies into suppressing speakers, viewpoints, and content disfavored by the government,” a three-judge panel wrote. “The harms that radiate from such conduct extend far beyond just the Plaintiffs; it impacts every social-media user."
Try again, fuckstick.
Your ignorance is boring.
And just plain smells bad.
has others have shown it was censorship by proxy. the government can't legally do that so they pressured outside private companies to do it for them. When the government says please everyone knows they mean do it or else.
Perhaps you'd be good enough to tell us what "false information" he was spreading. I must have missed it.
Duh. Anything not from the Times, the Post, or MSNBC.
>>when a big contributor told him not to support this legislation.
"Hey T, those guys fucked you last time. Watch out this time. Here's some money." is not quite the scandal you think maybe
Everyone with half a brain has always known that Trump is for sale to the highest bidder.
The Trump Cult is amazing. Just a week ago they were filling up the internet with loud cries about the excessive danger from "the CCP"!
This week they are worried about too much government and don't care that a CCP-controlled entity is both spying on and propagandizing Americans.
Fuck you. I, and others who prefer Trump to Biden or Nikki "Dick Cheney in 3 inch heels" Haley, have been consistent and disagreed with Trump on this issue as well as others. Eventually such disagreements clearly filter to Trump and he changes his tune. Like any good person should. Often an individual, who is intelectually honest, admits he or she doesn't know everything about everything and through discussion with others will change a position that was formed on incomplete knowledge.
Yes, there are some who support Trump who sound like Perot supporters who interpreted his folksy jabber into whatever they wanted to hear. Every candidate has them. They don't speak for the majority, they just get the most press.
it's not necessary and the overwhelming bipartisanship screams Patriot Act Part Deux.
Save GenZ!
The ridiculously ignorant generation is being mind-raped by the CCP psyops tool known as TikTok.
And who taught--or rather didn't teach--GenZ about the nature of Communism?
(One hint: It wasn't me. I'm Childfree By Choice, but others of my generation and before did give birth to and raise them.)
Anywho, Communist propaganda is no threat to U.S. Citizens as long as U.S. media is free to expose, analyze, criticize, refute, and lambast it. All previous generations have to do is knuckle down, buckle down, and do it, do it, do it!
The feds can never have enough power over us peasants.
Just ask any socialist turd.
It’s pretty obvious here that the intent of this fast rush of legislation is to try to ban TikTok at the end of that six month window. That six month window is mid-Sept. So golly election season. So why might that timing be important?
Could it have something to do with all the elected pols making sure that there is no protest by da yoots this election season. About what I wonder? What issue possibly has a highly differentiated cleavage along age lines?
Could it be that the yoots don’t much appreciate the elected pols and Reason and commenters here supporting the US government funding of, and complicity about, and suppressed silence/lies re, the LITERAL Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse – pestilence, famine, death, and war – in Gaza? Could that possibly be the reason for the only legislation that has popped out of – indeed rushed through on a massively bipartisan basis – Congress this session?
“and Reason and commenters here supporting the US government funding of,”
Who did this? I missed it.
I just ungrayed you to see whether the comment was the same as the shit below.
But yeah - every single commenter here who responds to any of my previous posts against what we are funding in Gaza with an accusation of anti-semitism or jew-hatred is very clearly trying to suppress into silence and supports the government funding of famine/pestilence/death/war. Reason is studiously silencing the issue and thus is supporting the funding and complicity.
Since I don't recall whether I gray boxed you because of that shit or some other shit, I'll leave you ungrayboxed and thanks for an actual comment.
The moron below is now on graybox.
I’ve seen a lot of comments supporting what Israel is doing but I don’t recall a single comment about supporting our government giving them money for it.
You realize there’s a big difference, right?
Not when anyone opposing it is called antisemite or jewhater
Ah you aren't just a racist you are an anti-Semite too.
I don't have a English Major at my disposal. My wife has a degree in Greenhouse Plant Propogation and my son is getting his degree in Metalurgical Engineering. I was just an army grunt who buried soldiers. I can't mange to diagram that first sentence of the last paragraph to figure out what the fuck you are trying to say. Perhaps you could break it down differently so I, and others, can understand what you are bitching about.
You mean the U.S. Government is wanting to censor TicToc the way Hamas suppresses the people of Gaza from speaking their mind and expressing thoughts anathema to the Islamofascist, Anti-LGBTQ, and Anti-Jewish sentiments of Hamas?
Correction: TikTok.
Once, I tried to TikTok, but it wouldn't start.
If I do the TikTik, will it not quit?
🙂
😉
If TikTok is documented as a national security threat in that its owners are required to turn over data on Americans to the CCP, something that can be used to track almost anyone, shouldn't the government have a duty to protect the American people from being tracked by a state that is an undeclared enemy of the US?
But there's another angle. We just learned Steve Mnuchin, Trump's former Treasury Secretary, wants to purchase TikTok. After all, the rightists have been "concerned" since the spread of social media that they no longer have hegemony over public communications it has had with AM radio and a plethora of "alternative facts" online propaganda sites. So. Getting social media into "the agenda" might be one reason for trying to toss the Chinese owners of TikTok over a barrel.
Trump, in need of cash, changed his TikTok tune when TikTok gave him some money. Regardless, if he wins in 2024, he'll put all his libertarian "conservative" cronies back into high positions in his administration. The goofs seem to think they can change the country for the better. Which has got to be some kind of joke.
shouldn’t the government have a duty to protect the American people from being tracked by a state that is an undeclared enemy of the US?
hahaha. Isn't that cute. So - let's pretend that the concern of the US government is to protect our precious data fluids from being violated by the commie slant-eyes.
There are no other privacy issues at all.
Yet another example of the racism among libertarians.
Haha. It’s a jfree idiot sandwich between two lefty morons. Classic.
[S]houldn’t the government have a duty to protect the American people from being tracked by a state that is an undeclared enemy of the US?
If TicTok in fact represents a national security threat, government is free to ban its installation on devices used for government related work by government employees or those doing business with the government. If, on the other hand, little Billy insists on liquefying his brain watching TicTok videos twenty hours a day while China listens in, a libertarian might conclude little Billy's use of TicTok is a matter probably best left between little Billy and little Billy's parents. Now fuck off, you invertebrate statist.
Red China was spying on U.S. Citizens and businesses long before TikTok.
This spying was made easier by the U.S. Government when they forbade private U.S. Citizens to have encryption as strong as anything the U. S. Military has.
Also, the U.S.A. PATRIOT Act made it easier for any Red Chinese or Islamist operatives in the U. S. Government to spy on Citizens and businesses.
And, finally, of course, President Richard Nixon opened U.S. relations with Red China in the first place.
And to remedy this, we are asked to give the U.S. Government even more power???
What a road of lubbish and clap! Rotsa ruck with that one!
🙂
😉
This would give the Beltway Establishment way too much power. Well, that's their plan anyway.
China will not allow the sale or seizure of the core code of TikTok to anyone else. So any buyers will get a shell of a company with the guts ripped out.
The core code is easy to reverse engineer. TikTok would become a social medium platform that uses a non-USA regional domain name service. A US local knock-off of TikTok would have to overcome customer inertia.
To be clear about this, the US government doesn't care one way or the other about TikTok. But it cares deeply--and appropriately--about ByteDance, which is an arm of the CCP. And it owns TikTok.
If you think that the Chinese spy balloon flying idly over the US was OK, you probably don't care much about TikTok. If, however, that struck you as very much ~not~ OK--like most Americans with at least half a brain--then TikTok should be scaring the hell out of you.
Then
TikTokgovernment insisting on limiting individual choice for your own good should be scaring the hell out of you.See my reply to Libby above.
Oren Cass, “Libertarians are hurting the conservative coalition”. Why am I not aware of this coalition?
It's the old Wm F Buckley/Goldwater/Reagan idea of Fusionism (Wikipedia) , repackaged with China as the excuse for libertarians to shut up, get in the back seat and let conservative statists run things, rather than the USSR.
Conservatives feel like they are currently out of power. Very few Republicans are standing up for their values and ideas. Thus they feel rejected.
The Libertarian Party has been a fall back for those of both sides of the aisle when they feel like their real preferred party has abandoned them. During the Clinton Regime we actually got liberals who felt abandoned by Clinton's "Triangulation" method where he played ball with the right than the left.
These lost sheep flirt with Libertarian ideas to make their preferred party worry they are losing voters and shift back to their core values and then they dump us like a hot potato.
It's a lot like how a guy will take the slutty chick to prom to make the girl he really wants get jealous and fight to get him back.
Yes. That makes us the slutty chick of American politics.
Fun fact: the law to ban TikTok mentions that app exactly zero times.
Perhaps. But then why TikTok? Don't we have enough toys?
And do we need a toy that is a tool of the Communist gang that happens to rule China
It seems quite odd to suppose that the government should be able to compel a business sale that might prevent something - an influence campaign - that there is no way they could reasonably expect to be able to be able to get away with preventing by direct legislation.
It is performative rubbish that, if actually enacted, will be tied up in the courts far longer than the allotted six months before being squashed or abandoned.
To paraphrase the commies, TikTok is an opiate of the people. It's Trojan horse malware that siphons all your relevant data and ships it back to the CCP. If hackers had your credit card numbers, would you not call the bank and cancel?
And yet, people argue, if you want to be a TikTok zombie, that's your right? Do we cut the same rights for fentanyl users? Like, if they want to be zombies, that's their right?
Just because kids are addicted to media doesn't mean it's a good thing. TikTok gives the wrong people unrestricted access to our private information. Some things are more important that watching 3 chicks run their dance moves. Ad finitum.
Well, since we're not going to nuke China - which we absolutely should, repeatedly, to the point of unnecessary overkill a thousand times over - I guess this is the next best thing.
If TikTok is banned or pressured to divest, the next target will be X (formerly know as Twitter). This a really, really bad idea. I don't understand how anyone can believe that this will not be abused. They are already setting the ground work to ban or pressure X (formerly know as Twitter).
The attempted TikTok ban is being blamed on Zionism now. Get with the times. TikTok apparently/supposedly is home to more “friendly to Palestine” views than “friendly to Israel” views, therefore the “white patriarchy” of the US government is actually playing the role of useful pawn to the Zionists trying to silence critics of Israel. Yeah, that is actually what the young Nazis believe.
But they are also the same people daring to call Jews “Nazis”. So, not much going on upstairs.
It should be noted the reason why Trump is now oppose to a TikTok Ban is because he believes if TiKTok Stays, it will mess around with Facebook.
Maybe the Right Direction but probably for the Wrong Reasons
Rand Paul? A Republican!
Now how are the leftards going to shift blame?