Jen Psaki and Nancy Pelosi Push a Conspiracy Theory About Trump and Putin
Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?

Earlier this week, former White House press secretary turned cable news host Jen Psaki interviewed Nancy Pelosi, the former speaker of the House, on her MSNBC show. Given the recent death of Russian dissident and opposition leader Alexei Navalny—likely on the orders of Russian President Vladimir Putin—the conversation quickly turned to foreign policy.
Psaki referenced Donald Trump's comments on the matter, noting that the former president had likened Navalny's political persecution and probable murder to his own treatment by Democratic prosecutors in his various trials; Trump also declined to specifically criticize or blame Putin for Navalny's death, instead releasing a bizarre statement about the "Open borders, Rigged elections, and grossly unfair courtroom decisions that are DESTROYING AMERICA." (Emphasis Trump's.)
When asked what she made of these comments, Pelosi openly speculated that Trump was not merely soft on Putin but compromised vis-à-vis some financial arrangement, blackmail or otherwise.
"You wonder what does Putin have on Donald Trump?" asked Pelosi.
A few minutes later, Pelosi again suggested that Putin had dirt on Trump, and this was the reason for Trump's relatively cordial relationship with the Russian dictator. Then she criticized Trump's views on NATO, referring to Trump as "what's his name" and then "nameless." (Psaki chimed in with "he who must not be named," so we're covering all the bases here.)
When Psaki asked Pelosi explicitly, "What do you think Putin has on him?" the former House speaker responded that she thought it was "probably financial."
Is it fair to criticize Trump for failing to forthrightly condemn the apparent assassination of Putin's chief rival? Of course. But it's easy to do so without falling prey to what is, at this point, a conspiracy theory. Over the course of the many years that journalists, political operatives, and special investigators doggedly pursued this matter, they turned up no evidence whatsoever that there are hidden motivations explaining Trump's seeming affection for Putin. Yet Democratic pundits and congressional leaders continue to portray a rhetorical and political disagreement—they are more anti-Russia, Trump is less anti-Russia—as evidence Trump is a Manchurian candidate.
These claims go all the way back to the 2016 election, in which Trump's surprise victory was attributed to Russian influence. Years later, the idea that Russia was the "decisive" factor per The New Yorker's Jane Mayer has been repeatedly debunked, but the notion that Trump's purported appeasement of Putin is a campaign kickback still has palpable sway over the Democratic Party and progressive media. As Reason's Jesse Walker put it: "While Trump can't get over 2020, the leading Democrats are stuck in an endless loop of 2016."
After Trump won the presidency in 2016, Russian attempts to promote him on social media took center stage as the de facto explanation for Hilary Clinton's loss. The mainstream media reported breathlessly on the Internet Research Agency (IRA), a Kremlin-backed troll farm that created fake accounts on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and elsewhere.
It is absolutely true that Russia undertook this effort, which reached "millions of Americans," per The Washington Post. It is also true that the IRA purchased about $100,000 worth of political ads on Facebook.
What's not true is that this effort was either comprehensive, persuasive, or decisive. The content was seen by just a fraction of overall social media users—on Twitter, roughly 80 percent of misleading election-related content was glimpsed by just 0.1 percent of users—and wasn't specifically directed at swing voters in the states Clinton ended up losing.
Moreover, as I explained in my book, Tech Panic: Why We Shouldn't Fear Facebook and the Future, Russia's influence efforts were marginal compared to the efforts undertaken by the actual Trump and Clinton campaigns. The IRA spent $100,000 on ads; the campaigns spent $80 million. Each time a Facebook user stumbled across some content designed to persuade him to vote for Trump, it was overwhelmingly likely that the originator of said content was a real, sincere Trump fan rather than a Russian troll. In any case, the kinds of voters that swung the election to Trump—older, working-class white voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania—were not exactly the most online demographic. On the contrary, they disproportionately received their news from more traditional technologies, like talk radio and television.
Perhaps that's why so many in the mainstream media fell in love with the idea that Russian social media malfeasance was the real culprit behind Trump's win: It helped them to deflect from the fact that their own, obsessive coverage of his every word was worth $2 billion in free media for the Trump campaign.
So when Pelosi continues to say that Trump's behavior is best explained by some secret Russian connection, she is clinging to a theory that doesn't hold much water. It's always possible, of course, that subsequent reporting will reveal Putin is in fact either blackmailing Trump or paying him off. But for the time being, the sort of speculation both Pelosi and Psaki are engaging in is wildly speculative.
Note, however, that no mainstream fact-checking organization or misinformation watchdog group is springing into action to correct their claims. Liberal news outlets reported on the interview—The Huffington Post cheered Pelosi for putting Trump "on blast"—without calling it into question whatsoever. It's very telling what gets counted as misinformation and what doesn't. Pelosi was, until very recently, the third-most-powerful Democrat in Washington, D.C., yet her brand of conspiracy theorizing received little pushback. Psaki certainly didn't do her part.
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Note, however, that no mainstream fact-checking organization or misinformation watchdog group is springing into action to correct their claims.
Geez, Rob. Where the fuck you been for the past... I dunno, 30 years?
Reason was a very enthusiastic Russia Russia Russia cheerleader four years ago. Now they have found Jesus.
The found Jesus at the local Home Depot, and he works cheap.
"Trump also declined to specifically criticize or blame Putin for Navalny's death..."
DICKtators and wannabe DICKtators flock together, like birds of a feather!
Is that right?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-praises-dictators-rails-immigrants-sparking-backlash/story?id=105725220#:~:text=The%20former%20president%2C%20again%2C%20praised,attack%20of%20Biden%20on%20him.
Trump, again, praises dictators and rails against immigrants -- again sparking backlash
A Strong-Man DICKtatorShit is the ONLY thing now, any more, that can PROTECT us from the HORDES of invading illegal sub-humans who will otherwise poison our blood, and then torture, kill, and drink the blood of ALL of our innocent babies!!! MAN THE BARRICADES!!! TRUMP THE ZOMBIE INVASION!!!
Really got penis on your mind today. You should ask the nurse for a prn to help you calm down.
I suspect it’s thinking about a whole haunch of beef.
No, they really don't. Objectively speaking.
Dictators are far more likely to be at odds with each other.
Such as Putin v Biden.
I figured that someone called Vigiliant Observer would know that the DICKtator in the United States of America is BIDEN and not Trump. Thank you. Please keep up the fine work.
Soooooo... Trump and Putin being cozy bed-buddies... Proves that Putin isn't a DICKtator? Proves that Trump isn't a wanna-be DICKtator? Proves BOTH of the preceding?
Inquiring minds want to KNOW, damn-shit!!!
>>Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?
am I mistaken believing this is your fucking job?
Seems he's doing it.
Baby steps?
wandering the halls asking what my job is while I do it for the first time remains questionable practice
Indeed.
Occam's razor suggests the most likely explanation for Trump's apparent love of dictators is that he just loves dictators. They can't all have something on him.
Trump spent more time dealing with dictators, especially those with nukes, because those are the dangerous people in the world and you want to keep them close. Your allies shouldn't need to have their egos stroked. Why waste time with them?
I take it you've never heard the line about keeping friends close but enemies closer?
Most neocons don’t think like that.
You keep your enemies TOO close and your life turns into endless soap operas! Which is EXACTLY twat you get with Trump! And THEN you get Trumpled Underfoot!
Well fuckity fuck. Imagine that The Guy Is Doing His Fucking Job and you are here to fucking tell us about it.
sun shines on dead squirrel's ass something something.
Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?
Strapping on their kneepads and waiting for their marching orders?
also I'm a little disappointed. the 2020 election nonsense was uniquely innovative but now they're rehashing 2016? is Kathleen Kennedy in charge?
Make Trump a woman and make her gay. Hire Rosey O'Donnell!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8-aKFUXxHR8&pp=ygUSVHJ1bXAgcm9zaWUgaXMgZmF0
Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?
If you haven't noticed for the past 30-35 years, they're little more than cheerleaders for the Democratic Party and whatever bullshit, no matter how batshit, that the Democratic Party lets ooze out of their hindquarters.
Even worse they don't even check facts. They insert opinion.
So many results questioning the opposition are some variant of "True...but,".
Where the "but" is followed by a long-winded essay about how the statement in question is wrong, even though it is true.
Anything questioning a Democrat will almost always be met with some variant of "False...but,".
Where the "but" is followed by a long-winded explanation of how the speaker may have accidentally been mistaken or misspoke, however what they obviously meant to say is not only true, it is the most important thing ever said.
"Russia, if you're listening, and I hope you are . . ." "I would tell Putin to do whatever the hell he wants" to our allies who become delinquent in NATO contributions -- Donald J. Trump, 2016, 2024. It takes no conspiracy theory to see that Trump favors withdrawal from NATO and alliance with theofascist dictatorships of Putin, Orban, and all others he can aid in the takeover of democracies. This is hardly news. Trump's campaign director Paul Manafort was already under FBI investigation in 2014, before Trump even announced his first candidacy. Where did Manafort receive the unreported income he was convicted for receiving? Lobbying on behalf of Trump-puppet former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych. When the Ukraine voters threw out YanuPutin for Zelenskyy, and Putin launched a pretextual invasion, Trump naturally opposed aid to Ukraine and strongarmed Repub congresspeople onto the Putin team. Trump wants a Russian conquest and it's no secret. Conspiracy theory my arse. It's PUBLIC RECORD!
Putin doesn't need to pay useful idiots.
There are already so many of you out there. But the way? Have you ever responded to how I destroyed your argument about the the Trump NY lawsuit decision? Or ar e you still bring from me?
I won’t go away. So maybe you should.
Sorry, I don't always go back to previous articles. If your response was mainly ad hominem, I would have ignored it anyway.
Trump's comments, if they were heeded, would make NATO *STRONGER*. As in, these nations need to firm up their commitment to building their defense.
Goddamn we have to muddle through these jackass assessments.
Derangement is real.
Er, even if they all fully met their 2% spending commitments, that would not even come close to closing the hole that would be left if the US resiled from the NATO treaty.
https://www.statista.com/chart/14636/defense-expenditures-of-nato-countries/
(No, "derangement" would be making your statement after having seen that chart...)
Good point. They really should pay more than 2% for their defense and we should leave NATO.
Appeasement has a long history. I'm sure you will be proud of your contributions to it.
Yes, your kind have an extensive history of appeasement. You’re currently all bitches for Xi.
In ONS’ defense, he’s never claimed to be a libertarian, so we shouldn’t expect him to actually think we don’t need to play World Police.
Appeasement is the opposite of what I just said. Is that a talking point you had loaded in the chamber and were too stupid not to realize it didn’t apply?
You'd probably prefer to call your stance "isolationist", but leaving NATO would be nothing less than an appeasement of Russian aggression.
So, do you actually favor "making NATO stronger?" Doesn't sound so. Carping about minimal Euro contributions is ahistorical and trivial. After WWII, the US emerged as the most prosperous nation on earth -- by miles and miles. Europe, meanwhile, lay in ruins. Knowing we would need both these past allies and past enemies as future friends, we built them up and established NATO. From 1989 until present, Europe slacked off because there was no evident threat. Putin's Ukraine invasion changed all that. Even Sweden has joined. But even if our Euro partners paid NOTHING, their presence in the alliance would be worth every Lincoln penny, lest Putin become the next Hitler or Stalin. "America Firsters" need to learn that US foreign policy has always amounted to this: WE BRIBE FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD BECAUSE OUR STRATEGIC INTEREST DEMANDS THAT WE DO SO, AND IT WORKS.
Trump also declined to specifically criticize or blame Putin for Navalny's death, instead releasing a bizarre statement about the "Open borders, Rigged elections, and grossly unfair courtroom decisions that are DESTROYING AMERICA."
Trump has said bizarre things before. Trump's post was not bizarre. You just disagreed with it, Robby. Not everything someone says that you don't agree is bizarre or outlandish or insane.
But it's easy to do so without falling prey to what is, at this point, a conspiracy theory. Over the course of the many years that journalists, political operatives, and special investigators doggedly pursued this matter, they turned up no evidence whatsoever that there are hidden motivations explaining Trump's seeming affection for Putin.
In fact, we've determined that the entire Mueller probe was essentially a waste of time, baseless. You know that Letitia James spent over a year digging through Trump's financials trying to find anything she possibly could, and what she got was some mis-statements on a loan application. She didn't forward anything to the FBI about Trump having illicit dealings with Russian operatives.
So yes, Democrats and people on the left really can't let this "Trump is a Putin operative" narrative go. They aren't really concerned about the truth of it, either, just its usefulness as propaganda.
Some of my favorite from Reason encouraging it.
https://reason.com/2018/11/12/house-democrats-prep-to-take-down-trump/
https://reason.com/2016/09/02/hacking-the-vote/
And more.
https://reason.com/2016/12/12/cia-and-fbi-should-make-public-evidence/
https://reason.com/2017/03/20/comey-confirms-fbi-investigating-ties-be/
What was bizarre was that in a post supposedly about Navalny, he barely mentioned Navalny.
Of course, in Trumpworld, writing anything not about Trump would be "bizarre", so I do see where you're coming from...
This is the derangement. You think he should be talking about X, he's instead talking about Y, and you think that's just outlandish and unbelievable. You just disagree with what he thinks, though. And that's okay.
No, it's because he also thinks he's talking about Navalny, and yet he only manages to talk about himself.
That's TDS in action...
Interesting how in a post supposedly about Nalvalny and conspiracy theories that he blows off Trump's comparison of political assassination and also fails to consider that it wasn't Russia or Putin who signed off on his death. There's signs that Ukraine, US, or other western powers had more cause and desire to get him out of the way and propagandize off of it.
On point, and grammatically impeccable.
My favorite kind of comment!
If a (D) accuses a (R) of a misdeed, it is near certain the (D) is really the one guilty of it.
And can I believe Pelosi (or her husband) has been compromised? Yes, yes, I can.
(Oh, and surely, the (R) may be guilty of it, but it is less likely than the (D) being guilty of it. Just saying.)
If the Dems are accusing anyone of anything, they are 100% certain to be engaged in the same behavior, because they aren't particularly creative thinkers. They can only conceive of what they already know.
Meanwhile, their opponents aren't necessarily guilty of whatever in particular they're accused of, so . . . yeah. Accurate analysis.
True. They are always cleverly able to explain just how Trump will do something in the future with a step by step method of how it is likely to be done. It's as if they have an inside look already. haha
Y'know what? I think you people deserve each other.
Yes, we do.
And you can show yourself out.
I showed myself out over 30 years ago. Now I just observe and sigh.
But you don’t just do that. Do you imagine you’re having a private conversation?
You got me there!
Amd you deserve to to die horribly. Like every Marxist.
Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?
They're all on the side of Pelosi and Psucki.
Otherwise, you might have already heard about some of the insider trading schemes from sources not named 'Unusual Whales', and Jenn would have been fact-checked: FALSE about 20x per Biden Admin press conference, and at least 10x per each of her shows on MSNBC.
Psaki was actually really good at dodging and misdirecting. She still lied at least half of the time, bit mostly avoided answering the questions or weaseling her way around stuff with semantics. Her successor has no such talents.
We'll have to circle back on that.
Sorta like the fox guarding the hen house.
"Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?"
They turned into D lap-dogs once that lying POS Obo was elected.
Obo? Carter.
LMGTFY: Obo Zandi, the Father of America.
Wait a minute....
It got significantly worse when Obama repealed the Smith–Mundt Act.
The Smith–Mundt Act has not been repealed.
The bits about domestic dissemination essentially were. Oh, wait, they were “modernized”.
It got significantly worse when Obama *signed* the Smith–Mundt Modernization Act.
Okay, that makes a little more sense.
You guys really ought to pay more attention when slurping at the propaganda trough.
In other words, R Mac’s point was perfectly valid you just quibbled about semantics to make it seem like his point was refuted.
And he did it right before saying this:
ObviouslyNotSpam 35 mins ago
Flag Comment Mute User
I showed myself out over 30 years ago. Now I just observe and sigh
No, when someone says "repealed", my first thought is that is what they meant to say.
So I searched for "Smith–Mundt" and could find no evidence that it had been repealed by anyone (obviously, Obama couldn't have "repealed" it himself, but Congress could have).
As it turns out, you folks apparently just use words in an almost random fashion, not bothering to check anything, so long as it "feelz" right.
Understanding the context of discussing propaganda is difficult when you’re pushing it.
The crazy things Democrats say are to gin up there base not to convince rational people to their side.
How did they get such a radicalized base?
It's almost entirely made up of uncritical morons.
The progressive march through education.
The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its
complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by
their parents? To this crime we plead guilty.
But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace
home education by social.
And your education! Is not that also social, and determined by the social
conditions under which you educate, by the intervention direct or
indirect, of society, by means of schools, &c.? The Communists have not
invented the intervention of society in education; they do but seek to
alter the character of that intervention, and to rescue education from the
influence of the ruling class.
The bourgeois clap-trap about the family and education, about the
hallowed co-relation of parents and child, becomes all the more
disgusting, the more, by the action of Modern Industry, all the family ties
among the proletarians are torn asunder, and their children transformed
into simple articles of commerce and instruments of labour.
100%
Commies gonna destroy. It's the only thing they know how to do.
They certainly never create anything productive of their own. Any more than a cancerous tumor, just consumes the healthy tissue around it.
“”Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?””
Rhetorical? They never existed.
All politics.
"Is it fair to criticize Trump for failing to forthrightly condemn the apparent assassination of Putin's chief rival? Of course."
Jeesh it's exhausting to watch Reason bending over backwards to find any shred of Trump's verbal flux to criticize! Let's just assume for a moment that Trump doesn't know any more about the death of Navalny than any other American. If that's the case, then NO American should be "forthrightly" condemning the assassination - apparent or otherwise - of Navalny. In THAT case then it would NOT be "fair" to criticize Trump - or anyone else - for failing to pretend that they know what happened. Give it a rest, guys! Stick to what we DO know, which is bad enough and sufficiently voluminous to fill a few Encyclopedia Britannicae every day on this website!
Is it fair to criticize Trump for failing to forthrightly condemn the apparent assassination of Putin’s chief rival? Of course.
Is it fair to criticize Reason for failing to forthright (or even) condemn the apparent killing of Ukrainian dissident journalist Gonzalo Lira? Of course.
He wasn't "apparently" killed. He apparently died of double pneumonia in a prison hospital, where he was awaiting trial after trying to skip bail and flee to Hungary.
Unless you've got some special powers which allow you to see hidden actions and motivations...
Now do Navalny. You’ve been trying to ride this dead horse for three days running and it’s still not taking you where you think it should.
I don't know what happened to Navalny. We can guess, but there is currently much less credible information to go on, compared with Lira's death.
What are you basing that credibility on? That he tried to flee on bail? Because that’s the only “difference” you keep bringing up. And it doesn’t actually help whatever it is you’re trying to get across.
I find Gonzalo's story to be much more interesting than Navalny's, actually. The more I dig into it (and I've only done so since someone on Reason mentioned him a few months ago, probably due to Carlson's or Musk's mentions), the weirder it becomes.
But, it's also clear that most of the people who invoke his name have little understanding of what he was doing in Ukraine, or what actually happened to him there. I suspect they don't care; he's just a useful tool.
“probably due to Carlson’s or Musk’s mentions”
Carlson and Musk are constantly cited here.
Either way, this was an AMERICAN in UKRAINE who was IMPRISONED for the horrible crime of JOURNALISM, and Biden did FUCK-ALL to help him, and Zelenskyy, recipient of your hard-earned tax dollars and proud owner of multiple homes in the U.S. and abroad, KILLED him.
According to his friends he was being beaten often in Ukrainian jail.
By whom, Jesse?
"The guards, they never beat any of the prisoners". --Gonzalo Lira
In fact, if you unravel his "torture" claims a bit more it turns out that even the alleged beatings were supposedly aimed at squeezing money out of the "rich American" prisoner, and had nothing to do with what he had said or published about Ukraine or Zelensky.
Yet his being put in that prison was about what he had said. My God, you suck at this.
Obviously, that was why he was arrested--he broke Ukrainian law.
This thread, however, is about his death. And there is no evidence that he was "killed" at all, much less that he was killed for being a journalist. Do try to keep up, old sport.
Stop using the term "fact" checkers. These people are doctrine checkers, looking for (and condemning) heretics and infidels.
^THIS^
You need a new triode in your sarcasm detector, methinks ... the old one seems to have burned out ...
The 1980's called.
They want their foreign policy back.
Can't wait for Robby to find Pelosi's claims "more credible" as more Dems sign-off on the crazy, or does that only work for SA allegations?
Don't forget, Pelosi was one of the original "election deniers".
Nancy Pelosi
@SpeakerPelosi
Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.
12:44 PM · May 16, 2017
Nuh uh. That was protecting democracy.
LOL
"When asked what she made of these comments, Pelosi openly speculated that Trump was not merely soft on Putin but compromised vis-à-vis some financial arrangement, blackmail or otherwise."
Uggggh, I'm so tired of re-runs. When does the new season come out?
The real question is: "Why would anyone care what Pelosi or Jen said on Psaki's MSNBC show?" Or, perhaps, "Does anyone care what Pelosi or Psaki say on MSNBC?" For that matter, does anyone care what ANYONE says on MSNBC?
You mean that MSNBC SHOW ‘Deep Inside Jen Psaki’?
Pelosi is right to be worried about Trump if he is actually in Putin's pocket. If he were to get back into office, he could let Putin do something crazy like take over Crimea or attack Ukraine. That would be terrible.
LOL - well done!
What if Putin attacked Georgia, even?
I'd think he'd have to go the opposite way that Sherman did..oh, wait..different Georgia.
Putin can still do his own March to the Sea in Georgia--the Black Sea.
I wonder if the sequel will be as good as the original.
If you're thinking Atlanta that's not a bad place to start.
I wonder if Somin will cite this as an example of conspiracy theories believed by low information persons.
Nah.
"Psaki certainly didn't do her part." Hahah, stop it hurts
She did her part. MSNBC isn't a news network. It's basic a propaganda arm for the Democrats. They say all kinds of untrue outrageous stuff there. Liberals love to complain about Fox News but MSNBC is 100x times worse
MSDNC
MSLSD - still every bit as stupid, but with fun colors.
" Pelosi again suggested that Putin had dirt on Trump, and this was the reason for Trump's relatively cordial relationship with the Russian dictator."
I would suggest that Trump either as president or future president being openly hostile to foreign dictators is counterproductive. If your goal has anything to do with peace. Trump talked to Putin and Kim and every other world leader because whether we like them or not they have the power to cost us a whole lot of blood and treasure. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. Trump's foreign policy speaks for itself. No new wars, a working plan to withdraw from Afghanistan, attempts to get out of Syria, the Abraham accords, the list goes on. All of this red scare bullshit serves only the neocons and MIC. Nice to see Robby at least point out the dishonesty here especially after seeing Liz call the Libertarian party Putin apologists this morning.
“If your goal has anything to do with peace”
These people all make money from the MIC, so there goal has nothing to do with peace.
Well put, and what's it supposed to be? Trump has to fall in line with everybody and repeat the apparent?
Well, no one really has any excuse for expecting Trump to act "presidential", so what's the big fuss over his latest "ME-ME-ME" tweet on Xitter, er, Troofxitter?
Well, which kind of "peace" do you mean? There's the "peace" that comes from maintaining an invincible national defense force that no foreign dictators would want to provoke; and then there's the kind of "peace" you can achieve temporarily by trying to pusillanimously appease a foreign dictator; and then there's the "peace" of the grave, which many seem to be enjoying lately.
I would suggest that the Reason you don't see a rush to fact check this is that Trump financial relationship to Russia is not much in doubt. After all Trump's son, Eric, suggested they can get all the money they need from Russia. There has also been accusation of Trump money laundering for Russians. It has also been established that Vladimir Putin uses economic leverage to control his oligarchies and so it's not hard to see him using the same tactic on Trump. It is never good to speculate, but Nancy Pelosi's speculation seems more credible than a lot of things Republicans suggest.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/03/15/trumps-media-company-reportedly-under-federal-investigation-for-money-laundering-linked-to-russia/?sh=79d8d9de68a1
So after years and years of multiple investigations nothing was found because.... ?
A. DJT is some kind of genius and was able to hide it, ignoring all of the dumb shit he says and does
B. Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
C. Russia
D. You're an idiot
E. Parody
This.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by years of multiple investigations? There seems to be ample evidence of Trump's financial connections to Russian businesses and banks. There is ample evidence that Trump favors Putin and Putin's wants. What is there is not is a smoking gun that Putin says jump and Trump asks how high. So direct evidence no, but circumstantial evidence yes.
Now apply that standard to the Bidens and Ukraine, China, etc.
I don't recall you being so credulous about the accusations of malfeasance by the Bidens. Unless this really is a parody account--in which case, you're challenging OBL for best parody account on Reason.
Clearly Hunter Biden and James Biden have connections to foreign companies. Neither is President and there is no evidence of a connection between the business dealings of Hunter or James with Joe.
"No evidence at all," said the ostrich from well underneath the sand in which his head is buried.
Eric Trump wasn't/isn't president either, but you mentioned a "connection" to Russia by citing Eric saying they could get money from Russia.
My point is you drop all skepticism when it's targeted at Trump, but have endless excuses why all the ties that Biden has to Ukraine and China are unfounded.
there is no evidence of a connection between the business dealings of Hunter or James with Joe.
Except for the mountains of evidence, such as the wire transfers, the SARs, the joint bank accounts that Hunter and Joe shared, Joe admitting now to speaking with Hunter's "business associates" (but just to discuss the weather, of course), after adamantly denying that during the campaign. I don't know. That sounds like much more evidence of a connection than Eric Trump talking about possibly getting financing for a golf course from "Russians."
There is plenty of evidence connecting Joe Biden. Phone records, eyewitness accounts, wire transfers, Hunter’s own texts, etc.
You’re in the wrong place to pull that shit Mod.
Seriously though it’s a parody.
there is no hint of a wink in any of his comments…. his entire comment history would appear to suggest he is honest in his shilling enthusiasm…. unless the account was fairly recently spoofed
Are you seriously 'seriously-ing'? I cant tell anymore. Poe's law is a bitch!
Pelosi wasn't claiming that Trump had done some business with Russia. She claimed that they had "leverage" over him, like what - secret business or a loanshark deal or something. There's no evidence of that.
If the money Trump was using was loans from Russia, as suggested by Eric Trump, then Putin through those loans did have influence. We don't know that Putin did use that leverage. We do know that Trump seems overly deferential to Putin. Hard evidence no, circumstantial, yes.
Here, stick with something this guy said.
"It is never good to speculate,"
What I am suggesting is that the reason there is little fact checking is that there is evidence to support Nancy Pelosi's speculation. And I have offered what I think is the best fact check available at this time and that is that while there is circumstantial evidence, there is no hard evidence.
Speaking of Nancy's speculation, have you seen her stock portfolio?
That bitch be ROLLING in it.
Amazing what you can do with insider information, the ability to control regulatory legislation, and immunity from insider trading laws.
There is speculation. And you seem to be fine with it.
Ha!… little fact checking because there is evidence??? That would make the piranhas in the I HATE TRUMP press go into an investigatory and speculatory frenzy!
They all want to ‘bring down’ the big game!
If the money Hunter Biden was getting from Ukraine (Burisma) was for influence peddling with his father, as suggested by SARs, witnesses, wire transfers, comingled bank accounts, etc., then Ukraine did/does have influence. We don't know that Ukraine did use that leverage. We do know that Biden seems overly deferential to Ukraine (blank check). Hard evidence YES, circumstantial evidence, yes also.
(-1 SAR)
So you think Putin personally controls all of the investment money that comes out of Russia? You are an unbelievably stupid person.
Putin controls the people who have money in Russia and in that sense, he controls who they lend money to in the form of loans. Despite what Tucker Carlson may think Putin controls Russia. Oppose him and you die in prison, are shot on a bridge, find your doorknob smeared with poison, or your airplane blowing up in the air.
Right,Putin has to sign off on all loans. That’s likely.
Now do the Biden clan and China.
It won't. These speculation exercises only go one direction.
How about this;
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/04/report-trump-received-at-least-78m-in-foreign-payments-during-presidency
Parody.
This is the they used trump hotels at Market rates story. Lol.
So The Hill link, from 2017, says the Trump business found investors for their golf courses in Russia when the great recession drove domestic investors out of the market. I'm not turning off my adblocker to read the Forbes link so I won't respond to that.
The golf course in question was built prior to Trump's presidency and Eric says they found Russian investors because "they love golf". The Trump organization does business all over the world. There is nothing illegal or even suspicious about Russians or anybody else investing in a golf course. When Trump was elected he turned over complete control of his businesses to his sons who were officers of the corporation. He also donated his presidential salary to the US treasury, unlike Biden. The Democrats promised to impeach him for violating the emoluments clause before he ever set foot in the oval office. They came up with jack shit. You can stop beating that dead horse. It's been dead for a long time.
Don't be an idiot. Trump doesn't just cozy up to Putin; he cuddles up to every fucking dictator on the planet. They can't all have "something on him".
No, the most logical explanation for Trump sucking up to dictators large and small is because he loves dictators. He identifies with them (even as they no doubt laugh at him behind his back). He thinks they're "geniuses", and he clearly wants to be one of them.
Cool story bro. You done being a dummy? Or do you have more bullshit to spew?
This account comes closer to real parody for me than Mod.
Trump kept his organization afloat in the '90s laundering money for the Russian mob. At different point, both of his idiot sons bragged about "cash from Russia" as why the business didn't need to be able to get bank loans.
Yes, the fact are there and we know Putin like financial leverage on people.
Did you suddenly lose your ability to write in Ingrish?
Ingrish is the best languish.
Democrats never lie. Just ask them.
Remember when the Russians were regularly mocking our dear Jen? and coined the term Psaking to mean saying stupid things? the good old days...
So maybe Trump should sue her for $80 million? Certainly this defamation was worth at least as much as for Trump calling E Jean Carrol "crazy".
Trump hasn't done well in the courts. His lawsuit against Hillary Clinton was thrown out as was his London suit against Orbis Business Intelligence. Would he have any better luck with a lawsuit against Nancy Pelosi.
""Orbis Business Intelligence""
Which used Russian propaganda against Trump.
I see. Does that explain why he lost the lawsuit?
It didn't go to trial.
""In Thursday's ruling in London, Mrs Justice Steyn DBE said she did not make any judgement on the allegations themselves.
But she found Mr Trump's claim had not been brought within the six-year limitation period.""
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-68166050
From the judgment:
“In reality, the Claimant is seeking court findings to vindicate his reputation in circumstances where has not been able to formulate any viable remedy which he would have a real prospect of obtaining, or which would itself be of any utility; and having chosen to allow many years to elapse – without any attempt to vindicate his reputation in this jurisdiction – since he was first made aware of the Dossier (including the Memoranda) on 6 January 2017 (Trump 1 §9), and since he first knew the identity of the author on 11 January 2017 (Trump 1 §10).”
Since he lost on all claims, under the UK’s “loser pays” civil litigation system, Trump would likely have been ordered to pay all his opponent’s legal fees (in addition to his own). Ouch!
I hadn’t realized that this case had only been brought under the UK’s GDPR and Data Protection legislation (erroneously, as it turns out–Trump always hires the best people!) Not under its scary defamation law. Data protection law is primarily concerned with preventing the unlawful dissemination of (accurate) personal information about someone. So it is a little odd to see someone try to use it as a sword (unsuccessfully, as it happened).
Steele had a decent defense with respect to the defamation law. The dossier was confidential until Buzzfeed published.
Steele is a former MI-6 agent. He ran the Russian desk at MI-6 headquarters. The government isn't going to go after him.
If the dossier was intended to be confidential, who was the intended consumer of that document? It was intended to be used unscrutinized in a FISA warrant application against an American citizen.
”Where are the fact-checkers and misinformation cops?”
Maybe we should ask does any politician care about facts, especially Jim Jordan and James Comer, those slimeballs.
It is highly likely that Putin is Blackmailing Trump. Also, Trump wishes he were Putin. Putin is clearly his idol
Trump has never acted like he was being blackmailed. He has acted like a fanboi.
You have never acted like a person of intelligence. Instead you’ve acted like a Marxist lapdog for the democrat party.
You are an idiot.
There isn't a hidden motivation for Trump. One, he's a cuckhold for almost all fake strongmen leaders like Putin. Two, he wants to build a Trump Tower Moscow. Those are right out in the open. His lawyer went to jail to lying to congress about the second.
Yeah….. that discredited bullshit doesn’t fly here. Maybe you should take your act down the way to WaPo, NYT, or some other den of drooling Marxist retards. You’ll fit in a lot better amongst your own kind.
But for the time being, the sort of speculation both Pelosi and Psaki are engaging in is wildly speculative.
Needs an editor...oh wait
ROBBY SOAVE is a senior editor at Reason.
Would I be surprised if Putin had kompromat on Trump? Not remotely. Do we need that to explain his man-crush on Putin? No. He likes dictators, he thinks Putin is a winner, and so he wants to associate with him.
Did Russia interfere in 2016? Without question.
The numbers suggest Russia barely fiddled with the election in 2016 and didn't even cause a ripple in the results (sorry, Hillary, you're just a loser). I doubt Putin would continue to throw hard currency at something with such a low rate of return.
I'm much more worried about the Americans in America than the Russians...
Careful there, you’re liable to get called a Trumpista with that kind of comment.
Don't worry, I don't care about that either.
Not your best work shrike.
Gov’na shrike is just mailing it in now.
I didn't say that the Russians affected the result, only that they interfered. Do any of you wish to claim that they didn't?
My claim is that you’re just mailing it in now. Thought that was clear from my one sentence post? If that’s not a phrase used in “England” let me know I’ll explain it to you.
You do think Russian interference elected Trump?
No, it did not affect the results, but it was there in 2016. What was bothersome was the fact that Trump refused to call out the Russians for the interference. If you are the American President you call out foreign interference in American election. It is just something expected.
Oops, haha. Forgot to sign out gov’na shrike.
Is it expected? I didn't hear any President calling out China.
Has it ever occurred to you that the best in the business when it comes to interfering with elections is right here in the USA. And when the wall between the IC and domestic activities came down after 9/11, the IC can now interfere with our own elections.
When we look at Russian and 2016 is there any evidence of our IC involvement? A former British spy handing our spies a document of unverified rumors to be used in a top secret court to justify spying against an American.
Btw, the FBI didn't want to touch the dossier with a 10 foot poll and offered one million dollars to authors if they could prove any of the claims.
You can't fact check when the person declares it a speculatice statement. That's basic logic 101. Soave is obviously trolling his readers here. Trying out the "I know you are but what am I" routine so prevalent iin America's kindergartens. Maybe Robby should look into the news about that FBI informant that turns out to be a Russian plant. Maybe look at the GOP politicians who assured us he was credible and full of facts. But what's the point. We all know a biased journalist when we see it. Oh wait, I am speculating. Bring on the Robby fact-checker police.
You had me at speculatice.
Trump's history of laundering dirty Russia money seems to have been shoved down the memory hole in this whitewashing of Trump's usefulness in helping Russian oligarchs hide their wealth and launder millions.
" for more than three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to the Russian Mafia held the deeds to, lived in or ran criminal operations out of Trump Tower in New York or other Trump properties. I mean that many of them used Trump-branded real estate to launder vast amounts of money by buying multimillion-dollar condos through anonymous shell companies. I mean that the Bayrock Group, a real estate development company that was based in Trump Tower and had ties to the Kremlin, came up with a new business model to franchise Trump condos after he lost billions of dollars in his Atlantic City casino developments, and helped make him rich again.
Yet Trump’s relationship with the Russian underworld, a de facto state actor, has barely surfaced in the uproar surrounding Russia’s interference in the 2016 campaign"
Pelosi and Psaki were merely saying out loud what most savvery political observers have known for decades, that Trump is an asset of the Russian oligarchy and so it is no stretch to say that includes the richest of all the oligarchs, his friend he cannot find an unkind word about, Putin.
It's a bit late for that.
Now we all long for the "good ol' days", when the Trumps were just reliably corrupt New York Democrat real estate developers.
Are you saying he got a pass because he pretended to be a Democrat? You’re going to have to explain Senator Bob Menedez’s current problems, who is going to be prosecuted. He’ll be very lucky to escape prison (which I do not think he will).
Face it, Trump is a stupid mug, and his appeal is to an even stupider mob. Sensible Republicans don’t back him, but Trump has such control over this superstitious, hateful mob, they’ll lose what little influence they have on the political landscape. Ask Liz Chaney. A couple of other Republicans–McConnell and McCarthy–immediately publicly accused Trump of causing January 6th, then within a few months they were kissing his ring. Surely these men have enough pride to see themselves as better than this, but they’re caught between a rock and a hard place.
But this is where we are. What gets me, the man you’re responding to had a lot of very specific things to say, about real crimes, showing Trump as having deep ties to Russians. But how did you react? You reacted with your partisan smugness.
What do you mean, "pretended"? There is overwhelming evidence that he was a Democrat. Jesus, next you're going to tell me the KKK were mostly Republicans...
I reacted by saying that it's a bit late to bring that up, because it is. If there were a "Russian collusion" case that could be made now, it would have been made already. Only true partisans refuse to stop beating a dead horse.
You’re going to have to explain Senator Bob Menedez’s current problems, who is going to be prosecuted. He’ll be very lucky to escape prison (which I do not think he will).
Who knows who he angered in the administration. Maybe he told Pelosi that she was using too much Botox. Maybe he called Obama stupid. Maybe he didn't pay his cut to the DNC. Maybe he used the wrong pronoun. Who knows. Leftists like to purge their own even more than they like to purge their political opponents.
Face it, Trump is a stupid mug, and his appeal is to an even stupider mob.
Trump appeals to people because the Democrats have been taken over by radicals and imbeciles. He is the lesser of two evils.
Trump has such control over this superstitious, hateful mob
Oh, you better believe we are hateful: we hate neocons, globalists, racists, and authoritarians. People like Cheney, Bush, McConnell, and McCain. Dumb, stupid people like you. Good riddance to the lot of you.
That comment is about as partisan smug as it can get. You don’t belong in this comment section; you belong at Breitbatrt.
I’ll give you credit, though: You punctuate better then they do over there.
That comment is about as partisan smug as it can get
How does despising Democrats, socialists, and you make me "partisan"?
You don’t belong in this comment section; you belong at Breitbatrt.
As someone who cares about liberty, I very much belong in this comment section: someone needs to counter the totalitarian left wing narrative of propagandists like you.
"Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ Eric Trump
"it wouldn’t be the first time that the Trumps have been connected to Russian money. A number of reports have indicated the Trump Organization received substantial financing from Russia when the business was struggling in the mid 1990s and again during the Great Recession, since major U.S. banks had refused to loan money to him. Most recently, Reuters reported that a group of 63 Russia billionaires have invested nearly $100 million in several Trump properties in Florida. Donald Trump Jr. himself famously said in 2008 that “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia.”
Donald Trump has maintained that neither he nor his businesses have any ties to Russia whatsoever: He said this at a time when he was negotiating a Trump Tower Moscow deal with Putin.
They try to build hotels all over the world. So? And I doubt he was negotiating the deal ‘with Putin’.
"In terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets," Donald Trump Jr. said at a New York real-estate conference that year. "Say, in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo, and anywhere in New York. We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia." - Donald Trump Jr, 2008
Trump has been in bed with the Russians for decades. Reason used to be...well...reasonable. Now they appear to be a Republican (read: Russian) mouthpiece.
Reason should stick to provable claims, not ones which only get any kind of traction on hyper-partisan leftwing websites.
God knows, there are plenty of provable claims against Trump right now...
Lol. Jesus Christ, how dumb are you? I’m sure if that Russian money “pouring in” was dirty don jr wouldn’t be bragging about it “at a New York real estate conference”, moron.
And the Russians are about as destabilizing to the US as Cuba is. Oh my, the Russians! Lol. Dumbass.
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They are also claiming again that the "Russian disinformation" angle on Hunter's laptop was right after all!
The FBI could help resolve that issue by releasing a comparative analysis of the hard drive image they were provided by Mac Isaac and the one bandied about by Giuliani and later flogged to the NY Post.
It is unlikely that Mac Isaac himself tampered with the contents of the laptop hard drive image, and the "chain of custody" certainly suggests that the laptop was provided to him directly by Hunter Biden. However, I recall reading that there was some evidence of file manipulation on the "final version" of the image. Comparing that with what the FBI received could at least establish if anything had been added or changed subsequent to the FBI's receipt of the hard drive image from Mac Isaac.
The FBI could help resolve that issue
There is no issue to resolve. The "experts" who wrote the letter claiming that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation are clearly politically motivated liars.
All this b.s. is an attempt to confuse voters and manipulate the 2024 election with false information and lies.
Whenever I see something like that, I quote this:
"We want to emphasize that we do not know if the emails, provided to the New York Post by President Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, are genuine or not and that we do not have evidence of Russian involvement -- just that our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case."
Obviously, it is you who is lying.
That statement is a lie. They said "our experience makes us deeply suspicious that the Russian government played a significant role in this case".
This is a lie because they already knew at the time that the laptop and its reported contents were genuine.
You said the experts had claimed "that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation", which is false, as the quote I provided proves. They did not claim it was "Russian disinformation"; they said, "we do not have evidence of Russian involvement". You claim that they had claimed it was Russian disinformation is therefore a lie. Your lie.
Moving on, now you're claiming that each of the 51 signatories of the carefully caveated letter, issued less than a week after the New York Post story broke, "knew" the imaged hard drive was genuine and unadulterated, so when they said they had no proof of Russian involvement, they were lying because they really did have proof of "negative" Russian involvement. That's what you're claiming?
Where is the evidence for the "knowledge" you attribute to all these people? And try not to lie this time.
This article was what I like to sum up as partisan stupid. It’s very disappointing to see such an article at a place that prides itself on reason. It’s clearly clickbait for people wanting that partisan view. Sure, it’s a notch above the stuff at Breitbart and Gateway Pundit, because it’s not so obviously lockjawed partisan. The subject matter in this article, however, and how it’s presented, is definitely composed to appeal to the same lockjawed-partisan reader.
Here’s the simple truth, that does appeal to nothing but reason: Pelosi and Psaki did not float a conspiracy theory; Pelosi was espousing a supposition, and it wasn’t even presented as strongly factual. That’s the fair nonpartisan view of that conversation.
Normally, the writing here is better than this, even when I disagree with it. _____________________________________________
You gotta remember, virtually every article Reason publishes is violently savaged in the comments section as Marxist--no matter what it says.
Maybe they decided to see what would happen if they explicitly went after some stupid comments made by some of the country's most partisan Democrats? You can see the result: Absolutely nothing changes!
Here’s the simple truth, that does appeal to nothing but reason: Pelosi and Psaki did not float a conspiracy theory; Pelosi was espousing a supposition
That makes it worse, actually.
A theory is something that might be true and is consistent with observation, but remains unproven.
A supposition is something you actually assume to be true.
and it wasn’t even presented as strongly factual. That’s the fair nonpartisan view of that conversation.
What is going on is that Democrats are trying to link Trump with Russia, just like they try to link Trump with fascism, right wing extremism, etc. "It's only a theory/supposition" is an attempt at plausible deniability.
It is far more plausible that Nancy Pelosi is a Russian asset than that Donald Trump is. We know for certain that Putin much prefers Biden and the Democrats in power to Trump.
That's just ridiculous. There's nothing else for me to day about this.
You never have anything of substance to say.
Congratulations for at least keeping it brief this time.
There’s no fact-checking because no one was claiming Putin’s blackmailing of Trump as fact. They are clear they are speculating, unlike right-wingers who insist elections are rigged.
unlike right-wingers who insist elections are rigged
It's an established fact that the 2016 and 2020 elections were rigged, through lies, propaganda, abuse of power, disregard for the law, private political donations, ballot harvesting, and collusion between the media and Democrats.
And as this article shows, the 2024 elections are being rigged in the same way.
Jen and Nancy have come up with a Trump / Putin conspiracy theory?
How original!
Tell me, Nancy, do you still cuddle with Jen?
There really isn't any reason to posit any kind of financial or reputational hold Putin has over Trump. The simplest, and to me most probable, explanation is that Putin is Trump's kind of guy. Trump is going to fall in love with anyone who has a whole country sucking up to him and saying nothing but how terrific he is.
No consequences for Harry Reid, so...