The World Economic Forum Is Begging You To Trust the Science
"There has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," warned one Davos panelist.
The World Economic Forum's (WEF) annual meeting is underway in Davos, Switzerland. Last year, disinformation stole the spotlight and was featured as a key problem for global elites to address. This year, the WEF has upped the ante, releasing a report that lists "misinformation and disinformation" as the No. 1 short-term risk facing the world—beating out interstate armed conflict, climate change, and lack of economic opportunity. (Societal polarization, which is closely linked to misinfo/disinfo, came in third.)
One of the first events at this year's meeting was a panel discussion, "Liberating Science," which largely focused on disinformation as it relates to the climate change agenda. A few short clips from the session went viral on social media; X users took particular note of comments made by two panelists—Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard University, and Luciana Vaccaro, a Swiss scientist—who objected to the increased toxicity of the site since Elon Musk took over. Vaccaro said that a fundamental issue with X was "the policy of the owner, which is problematic." One can certainly find fault with the various ways in which Musk is running the site, though Vaccaro seemed to be criticizing his stated commitment to allowing more freedom of expression on the platform.
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Short video clips can be misleading, of course; thankfully, the WEF records nearly all of its events and panel discussions, and so I watched the entire discussion here. A few impressions:
First, the participants frequently described science as something approaching a catechism. They were broadly concerned about declining trust in scientific institutions and expressed hope that scientists would train themselves to become better communicators of what is, and is not, scientific truth. One of the panelists, Carlos Afonso Nobre, a researcher at the University of São Paulo, was positively apoplectic about the phenomenon of populist backlash against expertise and elitism around the world.
"Why is populism increasing?" he asked. "I don't understand. They are all anti-science. Why in democracies are we electing anti-science politicians?"
Second, the panelists were, for the most part, unable to answer the above question, offering unconvincing explanations such as misinformation is easier to obtain than true information, technology makes everything more complicated, the news spreads too fast in today's world, etc.
Oreskes, who chimed in more frequently than the other panelists, correctly noted that distrust of expertise is hardly a new development, but said that the pandemic had exacerbated it.
"In the last 10 to 20 years there has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," she said. "We definitely saw this during the COVID-19 pandemic."
At no point during the hourlong discussion did any of the panel experts ever explore the idea that perhaps some of the backlash against The Science stemmed from pandemic-era policy mistakes made by governments at the behest of health advisers. They correctly noted that scientists are only human, and must be allowed to propose ideas, and then later correct their theories based on new information. But they utterly failed to grapple with the lived experience of skeptics during the COVID-19 pandemic. People who disagreed with the underlying science (whether masks, lockdowns, school closures, and vaccination worked to substantially reduce the spread of the virus, for instance)—or even merely disputed the policy implications of said science (whether mandating masks, lockdowns, school closures, and vaccines was justified and/or worth the tradeoffs)—were accused of spreading misinformation and, in some cases, barred from speaking on social media.
At every turn, the loudest voices calling for more suppression of dissent relating to COVID-19 were government health advisers and their allies in the media and at nonprofit organizations purporting to specialize in fighting misinfo/disinfo. In the U.S., this included numerous government agencies that worked in tandem to force censorship on social media companies, as well as purported experts who demonized legitimate lines of inquiry—including whether COVID-19 could have emerged from a laboratory—as racist conspiracy theories.
The "anti-science" backlash is not a backlash against the obvious truth that the consensus on specific questions evolved over the course of the pandemic. For instance, we should not fault scientists for recommending cloth masks based on available evidence and then later admitting that they were "little more than facial decorations." But we should be allowed to express consternation that the choice to wear a mask or not was frequently overridden by government actors at the behest of public health officials—and we should be outraged that the anti-misinformation crowd actively tried to prohibit scrutiny of these policies.
During her remarks, Vaccaro was correct in pointing out that "science is not democratic."
"At the end, there is one truth," she said. "The scientists don't vote."
That's undoubtedly true—but in a democracy, the people do vote on what the government is supposed to do with the information provided by the scientists. Too many members of Team Science overreached by trying to control the policy and the messaging—even when they were wrong.
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Listen to and believe the experts, and the government agencies that adhere to them. It doesn't matter if they are biased or just plain wrong, the important thing is we all pull together and do as we are told by the "experts," right? Serves you right for being labeled a racist or some equally radioactive term intended to shut you down, for even thinking to question them. After all, they said so, and "they" clearly know better and what is good for their interests.
lol sounds like Rev. Anime Kirk.
The elites want us to trust them by trusting science eh?
Well let’s criminalize lying first, then start asking some unambiguous questions.
For climate change, let’s confirm that everyone on earth is entitled to the same carbon footprint. Wealth doesn’t entitle anyone to pollute the earth more than anyone else.
What’s the benefit to being rich now? Oops the elites don’t like that. Want no part of it.
Its not correctly applied logic and science that we don’t trust, we don’t trust the corrupt lying elites.
Your hero certainly agreed with them about the need to eliminate “useless eaters.”
But my heroes are every one of the millions of people from many nations all around the world wanting to stop Israel and their advocates from committing genocide in Gaza forcing Jews to publicly deny the holocaust they’re on trial for in the international court of justice.
Your hero is Hitler.
Did he want to stop Jews from committing genocide?
How could Hitler have known jews would be committing a holocaust today?
Welcome to your new narrative fuckwit.
I saw a shirt today that said, "Kill them all, let God sort them out!" It matches my ya
Thats the genocide spirit.
Maybe you can swing on the gallows with bibi.
Science lost the confidence of the average person due to its complete arrogance. It’s not just that the Science is often wrong, it’s that they rarely, if ever, admit it. Even after being proven wrong, they continue to censor and belittle those who were actually right all along like Dr. Battacharyan. They should apologize and beg our forgiveness for the damage they have done.
Science progresses one funeral at a time. The old guy whose theory was popular needs to die so a younger scientist with a better theory can supplant it.
Peer reviews are bullshit. I follow a site that reports on attempts to retract papers that have been proven to be wrong by the peer process or have been proven to be plagiarized. There are published papers that are decades old that need to be retracted. Odds are these papers won’t be retracted ever.
This article makes me laugh. The lady quoted seems to take the position that the only reason she and her fellow "experts" are being dismissed is due to the the dastardly right-wing media. It doesn't seem to occur to her that anyone with a brain can see the destruction that self-styled "experts" have left in their wake. It's really all our fault, of course, for having stymied their plane, thus resulting in flawed implementations of the genius plans.
This is known as the "Who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes" defense. Good luck with that.
"There has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," warned one Davos panelist.
She's not wrong. Experts have done an excellent job of it.
I was going to try a different tack.
They aren't just self-proclaimed. They are proclaimed as such by media and governments.
Same people, same group, it's all self-proclaiming by collectivists.
Does that include Trump's cadre of witch doctors in lab coats?
They're still making the Twitter rounds as Tuck's science guys.
Can you provide names and compare their accuracy to the "experts" like Fauci?
Hey, I'd love a list of the names and educations of these "witch doctors in lab coats." If you can't provide one then I will know you are full of shit and I won't waste time on you in the future.
Speaking of witches, you should look into the one the World Economic Forum had give a very comedic blessing on their proceedings.
It includes pathetic piles of TDS-addled shit like you.
Me too:
“There has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts,” warned
one Davos panelistLyle Lovett.I'm going to need a biologist to confirm your gender before I believe anything you have to say.
The global effort to turn the public against so-called experts was led by the leading experts at places like the WHO, NIH, NAIAD, CDC, etc.
You don't have to say "lived experience". You can just use the word "experience". That's what it means. It means you lived through something that happened and now you have that experience.
They do that to distinguish from modeled experience. After all, The Climate Science is all about the modeled experience, including the (re-)modeled past.
The Covid Science was also all about computer models and that stupid flatten the curve graph.
Yes, but "lived experience" means something specific in the social-justice/marxism context. Just like "history" means something different in the social justice/marxism context. Just like "equity" means something different in the social justice/marxism context.
I don’t know… your comment almost justifies “lived experience.” Some people make decisions or shape worldview based on the experiences of others (family, friends, history, experts), but lived experience is given special pride of place as something you personally have actually experienced.
I am not justifying "lived experience" any more than I am justifying "equity". I am merely explaining what "they" mean when "they" say "lived experience".
For instance, I don't believe in 'equity' or social justice, because social justice is collectivized justice. And one of the problems with that, is that "justice" always comes with a retributive component to it. Collective retribution is absolutely wrong, and therefore Social Justice is wrong.
Again, merely explaining what the borg means when it produces a curious collection of words and syllables doesn't justify it, I'm merely trying to help people understand why that particular collection of words and syllables are used.
Yeah but if it’s just an experience and not a *lived* experience then it’s just a crisis (or even, and I know this is going to sound crazy but, just an egomaniacal discomfort at not having social indulgences showered upon you at every turn) and not an *existential* crisis.
No. 1 short-term risk facing the world—beating out interstate armed conflict, climate change, and lack of economic opportunity. (Societal polarization, which is closely linked to misinfo/disinfo, came in third.)
By the way, this is completely understandable. Previously, when people took these little Nazis seriously, they could talk about armed conflict, climate change and lack of economic opportunity. Now no one is taking these hacks seriously, so their #1 priority is to talk about why no one takes them seriously.
Fuck the world, no one is listening to us anymore!!
For instance, we should not fault scientists for recommending cloth masks based on available evidence
Pray tell, what available evidence was there for this farce?
Peer reviewed studies conducted by cloth mask retailers, most likely.
It's almost like citing a study on the benefits of Ranked Choice Voting produced by FairVote.org.
9 out 10 doctors trust lucky strike.
Yet even the mask retailers have little disclaimer tags saying this doesn’t prevent illness. I had one… I read it in front of our school board.
Everyone knew the cloth masks thing was bullshit until it became a visual virtue signal.
The 6 foot distancing thing was BS too.
Perhaps we shouldn't do that. But that's not what those scientists did. They recommended cloth masks based on no good evidence.
It's worse than that. They recommended cloth masks when there was one reasonably good randomized control trial that had taken place years ago that showed cloth masks had 0% effectiveness.
In addition, they also recommended cloth and thick-weave surgical masks at the very time when the CDC's own data showed surgical masks to have really no known positive benefits for influenza control, either preventing or spreading infection.
Fauci just admitted in deposition that the 6 foot rule never had any scientific backing, yet was used to basically shut down the work force.
Newsom and Breed proved what (incompetent) bureaucrats can do to a thriving economy in short order.
He also correctly stated, on 60 minutes*, the public shouldn't mask up and then changed it once they needed to be seen doing "something".
*just so people know this from the pinnacle of journalism, not some extreme right wing website.
Their evidence is some tuberculosis study from the 30’s.
Well, doctors do use them during some examinations and in surgery. I doubt they are useless. Unless the whole idea of masks is a sham perpetuated by the mask industry.
However, I will admit seeing the surgeon, anesthesiologist and nurses wearing masks does make me feel better while being wheeled into surgery. I don't know if I could feel comfortable if they ditched the masks in the OR.
Those are so the surgeon doesn't sneeze into your open chest cavity, and that's basically it.
Color me confused. If it stops viruses and bacteria from getting into my open abdomen when a surgeon sneezes then why won't it at least slow the little fuckers down in a supermarket when the wearer sneezes?
Just asking.
The average surgeon is going to be a lot more tucked away and wrapped up in the surgical room than Shaniqua in the supermarket.
So some people won't use them right. That means there is zero value to the idea? At the absolute worst the mask was a gris gris. A voodoo concept where a person wears what they believe is a magical talisman against evil. It allows them to function normally in society. At the height of the fear of COVID people were terrified to leave home and local businesses suffered, supply chains were falling apart and the economy was tanking.
Masks were at worst a gris gris that made stupid people feel comfortable at a local business if the workers and other customers were wearing the gris gris. Instead of hiding under the bed making Jeff Bezos even more wealthy people could support their local economies.
Would you prefer everyone hiding under their beds for three years while local businesses went under and Amazon became the only way to buy groceries?
Doctors use them to stop their own coughs, sneezes and saliva from reaching the "sterile field" that is the patient's open chest cavity. They do not and were never intended to protect the medical staff.*
* Okay, qualifier here - a cloth mask will provide some small protection from unexpected blood spray. But if that's a real risk, you'll mostly see them using plastic face shields these days. Shields with open sides - also not designed to stop respiratory transmissions.
So, what you are saying is if I have a disease and wear a mask it can help me keep from infecting others when I sneeze.
Isn't that a good reason to wear one if you have, well, any respiratory illness?
Ah, but COVID was symptom-less and invisible, remember? "Some catch, that Catch-22."
Will that mask stay sealed to your face when you sneeze? I don't know about the masks surgeons wear, but the typical ones sold in stores will stretch the straps and lift at least a half inch from my face in a hard sneeze. It prevents great globs of snot from flying directly to my front, but everything to my sides gets painted with small particles.
Even with regular breathing rather than sneezing or coughing, that wire thing for the nose is not strong enough to hold a seal around a high, narrow nose, and I can feel air leaking every time I exhale.
I agree. I notice though that the escaping air goes sideways with less energy and I suspect less range, not to mention all the mucous gets caught in the mask. Seems that would help prevent they typical breath weapon like quality my sneezes usually have.
I never expected a silly mask to stop me from getting sick mainly because it's door knobs and other such communal touch items that pass disease around. I always figured wear the mask to slow how I infect others and so old ladies would stop buying groceries from Amazon and go back to local markets.
Please consider, keeping in mind that we're specifically talking about cloth masks here, that humans had the technology to put a man on the moon (or at least film it in a warehouse), but it wasn't until 2020 that someone was bright enough to realize covering your face with an old t-shirt would prevent illness. Thousands of years passed and nobody ever thought of that "solution" until covid. That's ridiculous.
And that's to say nothing of SARS in the early 2000's. All those news reports showing people masked up and the disease eventually went away. If it was because of masking, we'd have known about it from day one of covid. And don't you dare forget MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome). Women in the Middle East always have their faces covered by regular cloth.
Except that doctors were masking up for certain procedures since the germ theory of infection was commonly accepted.
A fair question since there was almost a century of clinical trials and data that had already determined masks such as the one's recommended were actually worse than nothing at all.
Worse at what? Making you look cool? Improving your chances of getting laid?
It seems a pertinent question. There are a lot of things I wouldn't expect a cloth mask to do for me. Which ones are they worse than nothing at all?
Presumably worse at controlling infectious disease, though I am unfamiliar with the studies that BYODB is referencing.
There are 3 effects I can think of off the top of my head that makes asks worse than nothing for controlling disease:
1) Misleading risk assessment - I saw so many people say things like: "I know I shouldn't do X, but I made sure to wear a mask the whole time!" People almost certainly were taking risks they otherwise wouldn't, because the experts let them believe that the risk is controllable. Not only was this bad in over hyping the benefits, but just the perception of controllability makes people more willing to take risk (think airplanes vs cars).
2) The lack of being able to see mouths, along with the actual or perceived muffling of voice meant that masked people would lean in and talk closer to each other than they otherwise would. Granted, given that the virus was airborne, this might not have mattered. But, it is certainly an effect that ought to just have been considered.
3) It absolutely borked more rational and practical masking policy. Industrial respirators would very likely have provided actual protection, while using a mostly different supply chain from the disposable N95s that lilely protected trained medical professionals but, due to their low margin for error, probably did little for the laypersons who got their hands on one. The problem with industrial respirators is that they are designed to vent your exhale. This makes them easier to breath in and prevents humidity build up. However, the stupid "my mask protects you, your mask protects me" verbal hug, meant that we couldn't use the type of mask most likely to protect untrained lay people, because they can only protect their wearer. A policy that encouraged high risk people to wear respirators might have done some good, but, in many areas was actually illegal, in favor of wearing someone's home sewing project.
We knew, and I am talking hospital infection control managers knew at the outset retail level masks would not work at the levels of viral transmission. The very best materials available prior to Covid were never designed to do so. Who says? Peer reviewed articles by folks who developed and used the very masks as well as manufacturer literature accompanying these masks. So the net result at the outset gave people a false sense of security concerning the efficacy of masks in preventing arial transmission and the propaganda campaign advocating for mask use created a baseless cause to stifle informed discussion on that and then subsequent issue relating to virals transmission patterns. The 'vaccines' were never designed nor were the advertised to prevent infection. Read the literature and read the papers by the developers. MRNA technologies were designed to moderate infection symptoms only. The facts are the facts. And science is fundamentally democratic. We call it publishing and peer review. Or at least it is democratic until bureaucrats in government driven by a quest for power and bureaucrats in corporations driven by a quest for profit pollute critical thinking and the free exchange of ideas.
Way back around 1920, there were studies claiming that the masks people wore for protection against the 1918 "Spanish" influenza epidemic were worse than nothing. The theory was that most of the deaths were from bacterial pneumonia rather than directly from the virus, and the masks were holding bacteria and transmitting them to the wearers.
I do not have the expertise to evaluate that, but it appears that Fauci agreed at one time - and that his reversal on masking in 2020 was not based on any new data, but rather on the Politician's Syllogism -
1. We must do something!
2. This is "something".
3. We must do this!
In other words, when he switched to recommending masks, it was not because he had any reason to think they'd work, but because he wanted to be seen doing _something_, and it didn't matter if it worked.
If fucking Fauchi had kept his mouth shut none of this would have been a problem. All of the advisors needed to shut up and let Trump be the sole messenger for the government position.
Masks, while not the best device for preventing the spread of disease at least would keep idiots from spraying their snot all over the produce section of a grocery store so stupid people hiding under their beds would stop ordering groceries from Amazon and get back into their local economies so local businesses could survive. If the clerk wearing the stupid mask made stupid people feel better so the business wouldn't go under what's the harm in that?
"At the end, there is one truth," she said. "The scientists don't vote." Maybe that's the problem. If they voted for people who allow robust free expression and open debate, perhaps people would trust scientists again.
Scientists sure as hell voted to shut down anyone who dared question the narrative.
Scientists sure as hell voted to shut down
anyonescientists who dared question the narrative.Fixed.
At the end, there is one truth
What does this even mean? This is a religious statement, not a scientific one.
I have less issue with the statement than I have with the implication that experts are capable of more than just approximating truth’s whereabouts and that they are the sole keepers of that truth.
Truth is something for philosophers to address, not scientists. Scientists deal in facts (or, strictly speaking, matters of fact), not truth.
“We believe in truth, not facts.”
-Our retarded president.
It's absolutely a religious statement. One assumes they were trying to say that science is a search for truth and then just retardedly extrapolated from there that absolute truth is knowable and verifiable at current date.
I've known more than a few 'scientists' that claimed absolute knowledge of truth in their subject and just handwaved away things that don't fit into their current model. It's hubris, plain and simple.
It is a curious thing to say when all notions of objective truth have been erased from modern discourse though. Things like gender dysphoria are an elevation of 'lived truth' over that of biological fact as one example.
If that speaker was even tangentially aligned with the 'conservative' side of politics this story would likely be about how one panelist was trying to erase victimized minorities from public discourse.
There is no voting in science, and anyone who thinks so is an idiot. There are only data which support or refute a hypothesis. How many scientists support that hypothesis does not matter.
Old saying about science:
Scientific progress does not consist of replacing a theory that is wrong with a theory that is correct. It consists of replacing a theory that is wrong with a theory that is more subtly wrong.
Government experts lobotomized over 50,000 people in the 1950s and 60s. Trust the experts.
Women and children hardest hit.
(No seriously, they were)
Is that according to the experts or the women? [sips coffee]
Not the women in Stepford.
Phrenology was once a trusted science.
Eugenics was too. People pretended it was only Germany that did it after the war.
Sterilization of the “feeble minded” or people with intellectual disability continued in California until the 1980s. It was as mostly done to poorer people and people of color. But interestingly, progressives are not demanding that the scientific and medical institutions involved apologize and pay reparations to them.
There are 2 words at play there that they insist are interchangeable when they are not.
Science - this is a system of better understanding how things work by experimentation, replication, scrutiny, and withstanding challenges and inquiry to the hypothesis and methods used to support it.
The Science - 1) using science-language to further political or policy ends. 2) Doctor Fauci, self declared god of truth.
More and more people no longer trust "The Science". That is a good thing.
^^^^
Science - actual science - is not about trust. Quite the opposite, really.
Science ≠ technocracy
When you've lost covid's chicken little...
Not sure chicken little ever knows what his claim implies.
Nuke the next davos meeting.
No, seriously, make them die for their beliefs.
I feel like you could accomplish a lot with non-nuclear ordnance.
Yes and I don't think Argentina has nukes. I am guessing they could make due with same ordinances used on Tokyo or Dresden.
They also have helicopters
It would do wonders for their carbon footprint.
And their wealth could be spread somewhere... just as they always wanted! Two birds, one stone.
Only give them enough jet fuel for half the outbound trip.
Fuel efficiency at its finest…
Don't hate the pilots, man, hate the owners. Burn the planes in Davos.
Give the pilots parachutes.
The pilots happily take their money and transport the aristocracy. Fuck them too.
'X users took particular note of comments made by two panelists—Naomi Oreskes, a historian of science at Harvard University, and Luciana Vaccaro, a Swiss scientist—who objected to the increased toxicity of the site since Elon Musk took over.'
Authoritarian elitist cunts: Obey me!
The hilarious part is Oreskes is often the one cited by non scientists for the 99% of climate scientists believe in global climate change, and most importantly the climate crisis. Usually her or Cook, neither climate scientists.
Her famous 2007 paper is one of the pioneering screeds in defining those who don’t accept “The Consensus” as “Contrarians,” not “Scientists,” proving that nearly 100% of “Scientists” (i.e. people who accept The Consensus) accept The Consensus. QED.
She also wrote Merchants of Doubt, which drew explicit parallels between Climate Deniers and the tobacco industry lying about The Science about tobacco because they hate children.
In other words, it couldn't be more clear that she is a propagandist, not a scientist.
I was honestly shocked to see that she was a speaker and then doubly shocked that this is what she spoke about.
She is the epitome of the know-nothing, narrative driven, catastrophizing "expert" that has been the biggest reason for the loss of faith in expertise.
She's one reason that Derek Bok drew the line on Harvard's denial of its own political censorship in a sharp critique in The Chronicle of Higher Education last week, writing of:
“the predominance of liberal and liberal-leaning professors, especially in social-science and humanities departments,” to the extent that “there is an important body of conservative thought that is now nearly or completely absent on the faculties of many eminent universities.”
“At the end, there is one truth. The scientists don’t vote.”
Not only is this a false statement, it’s also a blatant lie. Attitudes like this are part of the reason there is a backlash! Scientists DO vote. Governments and the UN regularly organize congresses where scientists craft “consensus” papers upon which they VOTE. All too often these opinions – based upon selective information or no valid data at all – become official policy. And – by the way – “at the end” … of WHAT?! At the end of time? At the end of the legislative process? At the end of discussion closed out by powerful scientists and the firing of dissenting professors? I have heard it said that some so-called experts are book smart but reality clueless. But this “panel” may not even be book smart and they are certainly disingenuous!
And they not only vote, they're in charge of public policy, because these people are connected to government officials and consulted for this very reason. Acting like they're some unmoored victim of forces beyond their control is sheer deflection. The main problem is that they've been treated like sages and gurus with hermetic insight that the great unwashed aren't privy to.
People always forget or are ignorant of the other side of Eisenhower's farewell speech:
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
The mere fact that the western world is on this theological bender about environmentalism and "sustainability" now is elegant proof that Eisenhower's larger warning about balance and the limits of scale was ignored.
During her remarks, Vaccaro was correct in pointing out that "science is not democratic."
Nope, disagree. Science is a process for understanding how to arrive at conclusions. As such, it's extremely democratic, as anyone with a high school education should be able to examine whether the procedure has been followed if you lead them through to the conclusion. You don't have to be a scientist to do science, it's a tool for the masses for use in their every day life.
Truth is not democratic. But science is not Truth. Science is the pursuit of Truth. That does mean that there's only right answer. But you can't insist that you've got the right answer and the discussion stops, that's the opposite of science. Maybe doing more experiments will prove that your conclusion was just wrong, that you had other uncontrolled variables that led you astray. Maybe your answer was insufficiently nuanced and there's many more factors in play than the narrow experimental framework. This is why you need feedback and challenges, and calls for replication.
It's not "voting," but I'd call it the democracy of the marketplace of ideas. Shutting down the conversation is being anti-science.
You mean the science isn't settled?
Insert “It Never Was” meme here.
Science isn't democratic, it's empirical. There is no such thing as authoritative expertise, there are only observations and experimental proofs. A child can prove a Nobel prize winner wrong.
He means the practice of science.
If she thinks science is not democratic (which she is correct about), why does she think consensus about climate change is relevant?
97% of climate scientists want to continue to be funded by their government.
>>"There has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," warned one Davos panelist.
world's greatest anti-misinformation campaign ever. results pending.
Hilarious! Naomi Oreskes is one of the worst purveyors of disinformation as it relates to climate change.
If the WEF really wants to increase the authority of experts, maybe it should look at fixing their credibility problem. Solve the (non-)Reproducibility Crisis, fix the failed pal-review publication cycle, maybe break the entire Publish or Perish model. Consider implementing a code of ethics that penalizes “experts” who pontificate beyond their expertise. There are a dozen useful problems they could actually work on instead of whining that ‘the peons aren’t deferring to us enough’.
“Consider implementing a code of ethics that penalizes “experts” who pontificate beyond their expertise. ”
No free speech for you!
Um, I think a note (trigger warning?) about the author’s credentials would be ok. Many scientists I know have expertise well beyond their degreed subjects.
Professional codes of ethics are not generally considered infringements of freedom of speech. Lawyers and doctors manage under those regimes quite well from everything I can tell. You can still say whatever you want, you just can't use your professional credentials to claim special authority over that speech.
Engineers, too. It's why an Electrical engineer won't give structural advice, for instance.
A scientist likely does not have much expertise beyond any other well informed layman about subjects outside his degrees. I am looking at you, Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
Naomi got her bachelor's degree from the London School of Mines , and became an unsuccessful Australian gold digger before moving on to run Al Gore's Climate Reality project.
"Solve the (non-)Reproducibility Crisis, fix the failed pal-review publication cycle"
Aren't double blind protocols the best way to achieve this? In the data gathering phase, and the submission for publishing and peer review.
That would certainly be an improvement but it's probably not sufficient. The problem of non-reproducibility has been found even in some medical studies that allegedly used "gold-standard" double-blind protocols. Double-blind does not, for example, solve the problem of too-small-sample-size.
Double-blind in publishing suffers from the re-identification problem. (It's not really blind if I can easily guess the author just from writing style and topic. And in a small specialty, that's easy to do.) Double-blind also doesn't solve the 'wrong reviewer' problem (such as when no reviewer has the knowledge to catch a statistical error).
"Double-blind does not, for example, solve the problem of too-small-sample-size."
For that, more funding is needed. Larger samples requires more resources, more staffing, more time, more money. Perhaps that requires less publish or perish busy work, and more concentration on the science that matters. Trouble is we don't know that beforehand.
There may be no answers to the problems science is facing. With increasing specialization, the number of competent potential peer reviewers sinks to zero. It's as if science has become a victim of its own success. Not long ago science was the most reliable path to knowledge and truth. Now it's bogged down in second guessing, doubt and distrust.
Not long ago science was the most reliable path to knowledge and truth.
When was that, exactly?
"When was that, exactly?"
Exactly, I can't say. Long ago, a shaman would eat some special mushrooms, allow his soul to mingle with that of his spirit animal, and the next morning indicate to direction the hunting party should take to get the best results. That's not scientific knowledge. It started with the Renaissance, putting man at the center of the universe, and gained ground in the Enlightenment when Science replaced faith and religious dogma as the best path to knowledge. This was undermined in the last century with incompleteness in logic and quantum probability, and the issue of reproducibility of results outlined in the article.
This was undermined in the last century with incompleteness in logic and quantum probability
But didn't this very thing arise out of reliance on science?
That's what I meant when I wrote that science was a victim of its own success.
Except that a great number of the scientific conclusions that arose from what you are identifying as science's "successful" period are things that we now know to be untrue. So I suppose I'm wondering how you define "best path to knowledge."
"So I suppose I’m wondering how you define “best path to knowledge.”
A good point. Clumsy phrasing on my part. There's no end point in science. More knowledge leads to more questions. With science the best we can say is that it leads to knowledge that is more true than what came before, rather than arriving at a final truth. That doesn't mean that the physics of Newton is 'untrue,' as we can get to the moon and back using it and ignore the developments in physics that occurred since.
"...Clumsy phrasing on my part..."
You misspelled "bullshitting".
I hereby propose the Open Hypothesis Journal to let the world know what scientists are actively looking into but have non conclusive.
Who was it that said :
Hypotheses non fingo.?
Science is all about repeatability, and there isn't much of that in the climate realm. Instead there's consensus which is politics, not science.
Some things can’t be repeated, like climate. But the model’s projections and assumptions can be tested, and the goodness of fit evaluated.
When you say "goodness of fit", does that translate to "whatever model keeps the grant money rolling in"?
Because marijuana is Schedule 1, all scientific research has been limited to proving harm. Any results that don't prove harm are quietly swept under the rug.
I imagine climate research isn't much different. The purpose is to justify a political agenda, not to be accurate.
"The purpose is to justify a political agenda, not to be accurate."
It's rather to publish dramatic results. Rupert Sheldrake has some interesting observations on issues facing science today. He advises scientists that should follow researchers into parapsychology - telekinetic, esp, etc. They've been scrutinized and criticized for years for withholding data and the like and now are a lot more scrupulous about their work.
It wouldn’t be the climate you were reproducing per se, it would be the experiment you did to test your hypothesis.
Wait, are scientists out there running real world experiments on the how to change the climate? Sounds like the plot to a Bond film.
Experimentation comes in the form of comparing prediction models to actual data to see if they're any good. They're supposed to adjust the models to fit the real world. But it appears that the models are adjusted to justify political agendas.
Yep.
And a lot of people mistake models for theories. Models are hypotheses, not theories. If your model has no predictive power, then it is wrong, no matter how well it matches past data.
And even if a model does usefully predict things, it still might be wrong.
I would phrase it differently.
Models are mathematical expressions of your hypothesis. Models can generate predictions which can then be confirmed or falsified by subsequent observations. Models can also be confirmed for internal consistency (and rejected if they fail). But the models and model outputs are not and never can be evidence of anything. Evidence requires observations.
Thats why every year a hundred climare models are done and 5 years later they dig out the one that was close.
"Science is all about repeatability, and there isn’t much of that in the climate realm."
Aren't double blind protocols the best guarantee of repeatability and reliability? Trouble is that double blind makes science more expensive and complicated. In other words, you get what you pay for.
No, they are no guarantee. A poorly-constructed experiment still returns poor results, regardless of protocol. Peer review AND good protocols will take you further, but the acid test is independent reproduction of results. That's our crisis. Can't reproduce an enormous percentage of experiments.
"Why is populism increasing?" he asked. "I don't understand. They are all anti-science.
Maybe this in regards to arresting lone paddleboarders:
Kim Prather, a leading atmospheric chemist at Scripps Institution of Oceanography, said the beaches are so dangerous right now that she wouldn't even go in the water for $1 million.
"The ocean churns up all kinds of particulate and microscopic pathogens, and every time the ocean sneezes with a big wave or two, it sprays these particles into the air," Prather said in a statement.
If she said she wouldn't go in because of the sharks, it'd be much more relatable.
Well, Prather is a fat whale, so it makes sense she wouldn't want to be targeted as a meal.
Looks a little like a seal?
I haven't seen her but, given her rhetoric, I would guess more sea lion.
"Too many members of Team Science overreached by trying to control the policy and the messaging—even when they were wrong."
Blaming science for this is wrong headed. Blame governments who farmed out the response to a host of private consultants, flacks, economists, administrators and the like who, at enormous expense, came up with conflicting and contradictory solutions which the government felt bound to follow. Sweden's response was not to turn to private consultants but to rely on their own tax payer funded ministry of health and the epidemiologists employed there. Much the same with Vietnam, with an even better record at handling covid.
"...Sweden’s response was not to turn to private consultants but to rely on their own tax payer funded ministry of health and the epidemiologists employed there..."
Yeah, the US shoulda trusted the CDC, right?
Blaming science for this is wrong headed.
No one is “blaming science” for this. We’re blaming scientists. Those are two entirely different things.
If buildings keep collapsing, I don’t blame gravity, I blame the construction engineers.
edit: And then when we're all sitting around watching these buildings collapse, and the construction engineers keep telling us to 'trust the engineering', it makes me want to shoot someone in the face.
" We’re blaming scientists."
I don't blame scientists. I blame governments for their inadequate response to events like covid. Scientists in America are essentially no different from the scientists who informed policy in Sweden or Vietnam. The difference lies in the governments who decided, or refused to decide, on the policies to deal with it. I understand that would mean blaming Trump and that would mean a betrayal of MAGA. A bridge too far for you. You'd rather blame the scientists than the politicians who declined to mount an adequate response.
Its actually media types that report on science they dont understand. Scientists by and large just do their thing and write papers.
issue with X was "the policy of the owner, which is problematic." One can certainly find fault with the various ways in which Musk is running the site"
could you tell us what faults there are with X other than the blanket statement to protect yourself from the wrath of the left. i see these types of responses all the time but no real specifics
I would like to see how X (nee Twitter) is problematic as compared to the way it was run under the previous ownership, and then a detailed breakdown of why the problematized methods identified under Musk are objectively worse than the problematized methods identified under Dorsey/prior management.
The only problematic thing with Twitter (aka X) is that they can’t control the speech and therefore the narrative there anymore. They cannot stand being questioned or criticized in any way, shape, or form.
Twitter is dead! Long live Mastodon! And Threads! And X!
The only "problem" is that people are now allowed to disagree on just about any topic. Free speech means what it means. Musk isn't perfect on speech, but is a massive improvement.
who objected to the increased toxicity of the site since Elon Musk took over.
Translation: "We lost control of our propaganda vehicle and don't like people questioning us without consequences."
What did every Twit from Twitter say from 2006 - 2022?
"Go start your own site."
This needs to be the stock reply to every complaint about X.
"Problematic Toxicity" is this year's "Russian Bot."
IOW utter bullshit masquerading as intelligence.
So we had over a year of scientists feeding a narrative to scared and/or power drunk politicians on how to deal with COVID. They met dissent with suppression and it turned out they were wrong on major policies, which included some outright lies they thought were good for society. Now, they are dismayed that they lost the trust from the public which they blame on nefarious, nebulous forces. This leads them to the conclusion that they did not suppress dissent hard enough.
For supposedly being our global elites, they sure are stupid.
They’re only elite because they have power and the money to implement their preferred policies.
I see them as something akin to sharks. No one would call a shark smart. They are killing and eating machines. They eat things that aren't even digestible. But at what they evolved to do they are fucking brilliant. Kill. Eat. Swim. Kill. Eat. Swim.
These global elites are like sharks. They are good at keeping their inherited money growing. But that's it. Otherwise they are idiots. You wouldn't ask a shark to keep a financial empire growing and you wouldn't ask a global elite to chase down a tuna and kill it.
Don't expect a specialist to be good at anything outside their speciality.
Fascists gotta do fascism.
If only the energy could be harnessed from all the masks flying off at that soirée.
Isn't there something about the Titanic and the Ark?
You mean the 'science' learned in Commie-Indoctrination camps regurgitated over and over again without any process of proof?
These 'experts' aren't experts in anything but Commie-Indoctrination propaganda as all their *reality* 'proof'/prediction models keep failing over and over again.
And as correctly stated in the article. Even science that does have some *reality* (haven't seen that in a while) is just information. It's not excuses to [Na]tional So[zi]alize a nation.
All of these academic supposed 'intellectuals' can go fuck themselves. On a related note:
"Nearly 30 years ago, libertarian academic and author Camille Paglia was able to see EVERYTHING that the mainstream right has only started to see recently.
She knew in 1995 that the United States higher education system was broken - that it was destroying the next generation and undermining all of Western civilization."
https://notthebee.com/article/in-1995-camille-paglia-saw-everything-wrong-with-modern-academia-and-no-one-wanted-to-hear-it-check-out-this-interview-clip-making-the-rounds-today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M4HPOgwXRU
Not that I disagree with what she's saying, but the whole "Date Rape is dead and I killed it. I won." portion of her talk doesn't quite ring so true.
I think you missed another area which stokes skepticism of science which is climate change. Scientists are very politicized on this and their solutions are draconian and unworkable. The basic approach that they advocate is to essentially put human technology back to before the industrial revolution.
"There has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," warned one Davos panelist.
I'm no scientist, but I get the impression that you don't really care whether you get amnesty or not.
The paragraph on masks lets the Scientists off too easy. Don't forget that when they truly thought (reasonably at the time) that masks worked against Covid, they said not to wear them. Then when they knew masks were not effective against Covid, they said we should wear them.
At what point were they trustworthy?
Isn't this the same meeting that had a LITERAL WITCH bless their proceedings? I'd think once the witch shows up all talk of science goes out the window.
""There has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," warned one Davos panelist."
Ironically, WEF is a large cause of the problem.
I trust science: a set of procedures and approaches for getting at truth. I also trust experts I have personally vetted.
I don’t trust “The Science”. And I certainly don’t trust “the experts” cited by WEF members because they have proven to be idiots.
People who trust government scientists would do well to remember eugenics, the Nazis, scientific socialism, and Lysenkoism. In a short century, government insistence on being based on scientific authority has caused orders of magnitude more deaths than all the crusades combined.
Science is the last refuge of the scoundrel.
I made that up myself.
Any "science" which has abandoned the scientific method, observation, hypothesis, experimentation, observation, and above all, falsifiability, isn't science. The anthropogenic global warming narrative isn't a scientific theory, as they claim. It isn't even a hypothesis based on observation. It is nowhere on the scientific method scale of progress. It is religion.
I wonder how many who read this are aware that over the last 50 years, in much of the US, summers have become COOLER?
.
You did not get this scientific fact from “climate science.”
.
Most global warming happens in WINTERTIME.
.
Global Warming = Better Climate
When an engineer who has a TV show is called the Pope of Science because he supports cutting a boys balls off you know something is very wrong with the perception of science.
But they utterly failed to grapple with the lived experience of skeptics during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Of course they failed to grapple with it, they were in their ivory towers thus they never saw or lived any of it. They are modern Marie Antoinette's, only less sophisticated in their whoring.
'For instance, we should not fault scientists for recommending cloth masks based on available evidence and then later admitting that they were "little more than facial decorations."'
Why the hell shouldn't we fault these "scientists?" At the very least these people knew they were giving advice to follow an untestable hypothesis. And the idea that "well, it couldn't hurt" is bullshit.
Ignoring all the potential lung damage, and damage to children's developmental status, what were we told -- for decades -- was the main vector for transmitting Flu? We were told you touch your nose, then you touch something else, then another person touches that area, and then they touch their nose, eyes, ears, etc.
So, these "scientists" advised the world to strap on virus catchers which they should have known would be grabbed and touched all the time (Biden grabbed his by the nose every few seconds), and then the wearers would be touching things to transmit the virus.
None of the things these guys were advising were testable, and science requires testability. If you don't have that, you're just taking a SWAG (Scientific Wild-Ass Guess). Sometimes you have to take a SWAG, but you should at least let everyone know that's what you're doing so they can judge for themselves the validity of your suggestion.
SWAG actually means Silver Wine Art and Gold. The surefire hedges that the truly rich have traditionally sunk their money into.
A scientific wild ass guess is known as a hypothesis.
While I appreciate them asking, I'm gonna have to stick with my standard response which is "nahhhh, you're gonna need to fark right the fark off".
Let's see, produce research that says that anthropogenic climate effects are nil and your funding dries up.
Trust the scientists, even the ones receiving government funding?
"I don't understand. They are all anti-science. Why in democracies are we electing anti-science politicians?"
...
"In the last 10 to 20 years there has been a deliberate attempt to inflame the public against experts," she said. "We definitely saw this during the COVID-19 pandemic."
Well, maybe the so-called "pro-science" "experts" - who clearly aren't pro-science, but instead very clearly are pro-narrative experts - should stop OBVIOUSLY LYING TO OUR FACES.
Pro-science expert: "It's raining."
Normal human of average intelligence: "I can clearly see you are literally pissing on me."
Pro-science expert: "Trust the science."
Honestly, the "experts" should be truly thankful that Americans are tolerant and forgiving enough to not be beating them all to death.
Here's how the conversation should go:
"The global is warming!"
"It's obviously fine."
"Anti-racism isn't racist!"
"It clearly is."
"The patriarchy!"
"Isn't a thing."
"There are 72 genders!"
"No there's not, and I know what you're doing."
"We're coming for your children."
"Now you die."
I am confused. I read the science and economic ipcc chapters. Anthropogenic climate change is nowhere near catastrophical at even five degrees warming, as that warming would concentrate closer to the poles. It attributes no clear link to extreme weather events, although warming increases moisture and precipitation so to me as an amateur that can be linked to flooding, no?
I have damned my life to complicating and questioning every assumption I would like to keep by reading up on economics, so I knew the ipcc would be slanted and stretch the limits of science and consistently err on pessimism.
But instead, I found little evidence of that and startling honesty in the footnotes.
So now my question is, why are they pushing people to look into the science? How can anyone read that and conclude anything near as alarming as what most teenagers are already convinced of, that they have no future in more than figurative sense.
We have to stop drawing attention to the science here.
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"Trust "the science""? You mean the same "the science" that gave us lab created covid 19? Or "the science" that told us we can't go surfing because it will spread covid and we will kill people by paddling out into the ocean? Or "the science" that made pharmaceutical companies billions by demanding everyone get the GMO gene editing horror vaccine? Or "the science" that said to kill all contrary research and speech that exposed "the" faux "science" of "consensus". Fuck "the science" that is all political and just junk.
When a scientist claims to know The Truth, he has stopped doing science.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The WEF is begging you to trust THEM, which is the polar opposite of science. The essence of science is systematic DISTRUST.
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