A Police Group's Comments on Civil Asset Forfeiture Show Exactly Why It Needs Reform
"You've got to be able to demonstrate some level of legitimacy" the head of the National Sheriffs' Association says of carrying large amounts of cash.

Traveling with large amounts of cash in the U.S. is perfectly legal, but the head of the National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) said in a recent interview that "you've got to be able to demonstrate some level of legitimacy."
The comments came in a recent interview with North Carolina news outlet WCNC Charlotte on civil asset forfeiture, a practice that allows police to seize property even in cases where the owner isn't charged with a crime.
In October, WCNC Charlotte reported on how a sex crime victim was denied a court-ordered settlement from her abuser because police had already seized his cash through civil asset forfeiture and handed it over to the federal government.
WCNC continued its excellent series on civil forfeiture Wednesday, reporting that Charlotte-area police departments had received $20 million since 2018 through the Justice Department's Equitable Sharing Program. The story included a notable interview with Jonathan Thompson, executive director of the NSA.
Thompson's exchange with a WCNC reporter is worth quoting in full:
"You want to assume everybody's innocent of a crime that's carrying $1 million in cash?" Thompson asked.
"Isn't that the way the law works? You're innocent until proven guilty?" WCNC Charlotte responded.
"You are innocent until proven guilty, but you are not just carrying around $1 million or $10,000 in cash without some level of notification and legitimacy," he replied. "You've got to be able to demonstrate some level of legitimacy."
"If it's not illegal to carry the cash, why should I have to prove that it's my cash to begin with?" WCNC Charlotte asked.
"How do I know this is yours?" he replied.
"You could get probable cause and arrest me," WCNC Charlotte responded.
"That's exactly what they do and if they don't, they need policies and procedures," Thompson said. "Let's define the proper guideposts here. That's what we're saying."
There are several issues with Thompson's comments—the dismissal of the presumption of innocence, and the rather extreme range of what's considered suspicious cash, for instance—but his claim that obtaining probable cause and arresting suspects is exactly what police do in civil forfeiture cases is incorrect.
A 2017 report by the Justice Department Office of Inspector General found that the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) seized more than $4 billion in cash from people suspected of drug activity over the previous decade, but $3.2 billion of those seizures were never connected to any criminal charges.
Many of those seizures occurred at airports, where local police, often as members of DEA task forces, frequently seize cash from travelers on suspicion of drug trafficking, despite no physical evidence and it being perfectly legal to fly domestically with large amounts of cash. Reason has covered case after case of travelers whose cash was seized despite never being charged with a crime.
A federal court ruled in September that Detroit's asset forfeiture program violated the constitutional rights of vehicle owners by making them wait months, even years, for hearings to challenge the seizure of their car. Of course, they also had an option to pay a hefty settlement to get their car back immediately. One of the federal judges in the case called Detroit's scheme "simply a money-making venture—one most often used to extort money from those who can least afford it."
Four states including North Carolina now require criminal convictions before property can be forfeited because of abusive cases like these. But local police departments can get around strict state laws by partnering with the Justice Department and going through federal court. By participating in the Equitable Sharing Program, the department keeps up to 80 percent of the forfeiture revenue.
Spurred by outrageous stories like those uncovered by WCNC and other news outlets around the country, a bipartisan bill was introduced this year in Congress that would, among other significant reforms, eliminate the Equitable Sharing Program.
The NSA opposes the bill, arguing that it would "dismantle a crucial tool in the fight against the Mexican drug cartels" based on "an incomplete picture of the fight against trafficking."
"No one should support the egregious anecdotes of individual abuses-seizures of valuable real property or vehicles for relatively minor crimes or coercion of out-of-town travelers to surrender their cash with threats of criminal charges," the organization wrote in a letter to Congress. "But focusing on a few anecdotes results in bad policy."
All of this aside, a core principle of the American legal system is that you should be free to go about your business without having to show your papers to some officious, sticky-fingered busybody. The legal fiction of civil asset forfeiture—that it's an action against the property, not the owner—and the Supreme Court's endorsement of pretextual traffic stops were created to get around this principle, and Thompson's comments demonstrate exactly why that's a problem.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
"the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) seized more than $4 billion in cash from people suspected of drug activity over the previous decade, but $3.2 billion of those seizures were never connected to any criminal charges."
Well, if you assume a 100% conviction rate, that's only 80% illegitimate seizures.
Well, it's a better rate than the TSA has at catching terrorists. Gotta look for the silver linings right?
The vote for a coercive political paradigm is self-destructive, impractical, ignorant at best. At worst, it's self-enslavement AND, forced enslavement of others who want to be free to live their life. Having "good intentions" is irrelevant when you force your opinion on others on pain of death. It's also a contradiction. Humane people don't interact using violence as their means. Reason trumps violence. If people would stop to think out their politics...but I assumed authoritarians think... never mind.
Still a much better rate than COVID vaccines ultimately produced. #getboosted
You can choose who you want to believe. It's common, accepted knowledge that shots do not protect you against getting Covid. I do see evidence that people who avoid getting shots tend to die more frequently after they get Covid then the people who did get the shots. Your Facebook/Twitter/TruthSocial/Friends and family feeds may send you different info. It's best IMO to look at a variety of information sources rather than just what is sent by by algorithms and people that already know what you tend to look at and believe.
You shouldnt be asking cops what they think.
They are literally screened out for being too smart. Cops are stupid thugs working for the state and doing what they are told. They dont have nuance, or an understanding of the meaning of the consitutuion or natural rights or anything.
Dont ask cops what they think. it doesnt matter and they're too stupid to shed light on the subject anyway.
What do you call a police officer with a 104 IQ?
Detective.
You shouldn't be asking cops what they think, not because they may or may not be morons, but because they have a highly biased view of the world as a function of their office. It's like a friend who worked in the returns and complaints department at a toy store who commented that everything the store sold was junk; of course she thought that, look where she was working, in the complaints department.
The executive director of the NSA sure does seem like someone that should be entrusted not to abuse surveillance tools on the American public. A real thoughtful fellow.
"That's exactly what they do and if they don't, they need policies and procedures," Thompson said. "Let's define the proper guideposts here. That's what we're saying."
So, they need guideposts to get around the freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution. Sounds like the perfect person to help run a fascist government.
Aren't the proper guideposts to follow the law?
"Presumption of innocence" is such a guide post, but, apparently it prevents him from doing what Thompson thinks should be done, so it does not count.
The program of "sharing" money obtained legally or illegally by government is NOT a valuable tool in the fight against drug cartels. No one has ever seriously questioned the practice of seizing money or property obtained illegally, although many of us question the laws that make money obtained by selling drugs illegal. They would like us to be faked out by their shell game trying to distract us from the real issue: seizing assets not obtained illegally or as a result of crimes committed. The ONLY way to justify seizing assets is through probable cause, search and arrest warrants, charges filed and guilt determined by a trial by jury. That's the issue here and it's the ONLY issue here.
Biden is the nation’s top cop. Just call this 10% for the big guys.
Would you ever say the same thing if a Republican was in the White House? Doubt it.
Wouldn’t need to. But a drunk piece of shit pussy like you can’t understand why.
You do realize that the "Equitable Sharing Program" was implemented by Jeff Sessions under Trump right? The man ran the DoJ like a pimp named Swifty.
Best day this country ever saw was the day that treasonous lot packed up everything that wasn't nailed down and got the hell out of the White House.
Now if you want to criticize Biden or Merrick Garland for not putting an end to this scam day one you'll get no argument from me.
.
No. Equitable Sharing goes back decades. (Looking it up, wikipedia says to (no pun intended) 1984.)
1984? That's hilarious!
Laws change depending on the president? And you say I'm drunk.
Guess we should be thankful that Babbitt didn’t have assets seized after she was murdered.
I did strongly oppose the W administration though I wasn’t aware he was taking 10%. W had senators Biden and Clinton goose step alongside him into Afghanistan and Iraq.
How about you got 30 days to bring charges. If there are no charges brought, law enforcement returns the funds on the 31st day with credit card interest.
Reasonable, except that it’s still theft without so much as probable cause. They'd be taking away your ability to use that money for 30 days without consent. The money could be of extreme importance, much more than even credit card interest can compensate, even 100% interest.
We need federal law on this ASAP.. But OC the politicians don't care about this or any number of other important issues affecting people.. They are more concerned about wringing their hands about furthering more illegal CR laws and piracy hysterics etc.
States have passed laws directing all fines and loot to the state treasury as opposed to the police departments, in an effort to curb theft by the police.
Departments get around this by teaming up with the federal government (usually the DEA) to do the bust (usually marijuana). Then they get to keep a portion of what was stolen through "equitable sharing."
Yeah there needs to be a federal law. Just like there needs to be a federal law to take marijuana off Schedule 1. But the DEA will never allow it. Too much money to be stolen.
It is a sad day in this country when the police are indistinguishable from petty criminals and the federal government is indistinguishable from the neighborhood fence.
Well yeah, that's is what I said. lol
"You've got to be able to demonstrate some level of legitimacy."
Here's the banks stateme..
Not good enough!
Here's the paperwork from my reti...
Not good enough!
Here's...
Look. I'm taking it because fuck you that's why. Hire a lawyer if you don't like it.
*pulled over on the way to the law office*
Looky here. Two grand. I'll be taking that!
Wait, you said to hire a...
Haa ha ha ha! Fuck you.
If you had two grand it would all be in the cash register at the liquor store in short order.
Wow. You've got expensive taste.
Civil asset forfeiture needs reform like cancer need reformed. It need to be eliminated.
If that shit smoker ever claimed to be an American around me, I'd think I'd make a serious effort to rip his mandible off.
I’m picturing mouthless jowels
Why zero in only on drug issues?
There's bigger things in play here than a bunch of worthless degenerates who like to get high. Arms dealing, human trafficking, blackmail, bribery, corruption, violence, murder, espionage, terrorism - there's a lot more at work here than just chasing some Johnny McStoner loser dirtbag and taking his busted jalopy.
And if it's affecting "those who can least afford it" - well hey, if you can least afford it, anywhere near the drug trade is the absolute LAST place you should be hanging out to begin with.
You pretend like this is, "Hey, let's pull this guy over and take everything from him on a pretense." It's not. This is often specifically targeted after lengthy investigation for an entirely valid purpose.
These illicit empires - yes, including the drug trade - have to be hit where it hurts. Their money is their means. Take it away from them.
Yes, but take it away AFTER they have been convicted of crime. They are taking the money/property PRIOR to any conviction and often before any ARREST. And there have been plenty of cases where it has been “Hey, let’s pull this guy over and take everything from him on a pretense.”
That defeats the point. The whole idea is to intercept it before it reaches its destination to be used in/for nefarious purposes (or disappears).
But, I think there's room for compromise based on the totality of the circumstances. Accept the forfeiture with a streamlined appeal process in place (so that Druggy McJalopy Loserpunk can get his hooptie back), or refuse the forfeiture and get a forensic accountant joined at your hip for the next twelve months (so that Cartel McAllahuakbar Politician's operations go under a microscope). I'd argue that maximizes liberty while providing reasonable means for deterring criminal activity.
Why do you bootlickers hate the 4th amendment so much? You do realize that if the cops can steal money from some poor black guy they can steal your money too, don't you?
Because the 4th Amendment was intended for good, moral, and religious people. As was the entire Constitution. And we no longer live in a society/nation of good, moral, and religious people. We live in a nation that has been filled past breaking point with criminals, addicts, derelicts, traffickers, insane people, corrupt politicians, illegal aliens, foreign spies, and terrorist sleepers.
Right now we've got enemies and criminals of all walks abusing our Constitution - because we think it should apply to those people for whom it was NOT intended - and idiot Americans empowering this for NO REASON other than they want to "just like get stoned man so chill." FFS, foreign powers hand out pamphlets of precisely HOW to abuse our Constitutional society, but God forbid a black guy (or anyone else) is slightly offended or inconvenienced in any way.
I cannot understand the myopia that people like you have Dave. You need to feel so righteous about a single tree (race pimping isn't righteous, btw), that you don't care at all that the forest you refuse to see burns around it. It's that weak underbelly of yours that's being exploited, Dave; that is promising to bring America down.
I believe absolutely in Blackstone's Ratio. But I also believe that it's stupid to ignore hundreds of millions in clearly dirty money clearly intended for nefarious purposes to go unchecked just to avoid some poor black guy being slightly inconvenienced.
I gave you a compromise that respects the Constitution while still dealing with the infestation of scumbags in this country - from drug users to terrorists - who clearly DON'T respect it, and seek only to abuse and exploit it for their scumbaggery.
Get off the side of the scumbags.
"And we no longer live in a society/nation of good, moral, and religious people."
Religious and moral aren't synonymous. In the Catholic Church it's often mutually exclusive.
"our Constitution – because we think it should apply to those people for whom it was NOT intended"
Yes, we all know that the Constitution isn't a document of universal principles of government, it's actually ... oh, wait. That's exactly what it is.
"I gave you a compromise that respects the Constitution while still dealing with the infestation of scumbags in this country"
So you're saying anyone who is carrying around their own money is a scumbag and the Constitutional rights of citizens should be a compromise? Why? Because cops are always good and right and honest? Oh, wait. If they're religious, I guess you think they are.
When 80% of the assets taken never involve criminal charges ($3.2 billion, yes billion, out of $4 billion seized in a single year), there is definitely a LOT of abuse going on by law enforcement. At the expense of innocent citizens.
"some poor black guy being slightly inconvenienced"
Hmmmm. I wonder why you assume it's a black guy? Maybe you have some ... opinions ... about what a criminal looks like?
Religious and moral aren’t synonymous.
I never said they were. They do, however, go hand in hand when it comes to appreciating the kind of people who are fit for a Constitutional society.
Also, go read a biography of John Adams.
In the Catholic Church it’s often mutually exclusive.
This seems an odd thing to bring up completely unprovoked. Which means we can chalk it up to bigotry.
Yes, we all know that the Constitution isn’t a document of universal principles of government, it’s actually … oh, wait. That’s exactly what it is.
And when a people don't share those universal principles, that Constitution doesn't work for them.
It's why, for example, the US Constitution doesn't work for socialists. They don't understand property rights at even its most basic level. It's why, for example, the US Constitution doesn't work for Muslims and other despots. They cannot fathom a society empowered and armed to rise to any power above subjugation.
It's absolutely a document of universal principles - but when an entire culture/ideology openly defies those universal principles, it cannot apply to them. They won't understand or accept it.
So you’re saying anyone who is carrying around their own money is a scumbag and the Constitutional rights of citizens should be a compromise?
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. You intentionally misunderstood that to make your bogus argument.
We're not talking about "anyone who is carrying around their own money." I clearly qualfied this. Twice.
Because cops are always good and right and honest?
No, they're just as prone to corruption and criminality as anyone else. I'd happily seize their dirty money to prevent said corruption and crime as well.
Wouldn't you? Or should we respect their rights under a Constitution that they've clearly shown zero respect for?
At the expense of innocent citizens.
Nonsense. The innocent citizenry isn't out $3.2B.
Scumbags are out $3.2B. Don't intentionally play stupid to make your idiot position try to make sense.
Hmmmm. I wonder why you assume it’s a black guy?
Because Dave SAID it was a black guy.
You suck AT
Solid rebuttal.
It's not just slightly inconvenienced. Try getting your car back after some thug steals it and takes it for a joyride to commit a crime.
AT must think that “Boondock Saints” was a “how-to” video…
Lets take your money away from you too. This is what you're begging for even though you're too stupid to know it.
You display the mentality of a cop. Our society needs cops, but we don't let them make our laws because their views are so affected by the human sewage they swim in every day that it warps their judgement and they lose touch with how ordinary civilians live their lives.
No, we don't apply the Constitution selectively, based on whether someone is "criminal" or otherwise deemed unworthy of its protection by some random human garbageman. Those who do this are corrupt, have violated the oaths they have taken and should be removed from office and/or imprisoned.
Criminals do not deserve to retain the fruits of their crimes, and it is perfectly reasonable to deprive them of it. But there is already a "compromise" which is perfectly legal and perfectly compatible with the Constitution: it's called due process. If the police can't abide by this (even after the "lengthy investigation" you assume usually occurs), and cannot figure out how to arrest the people they manage to find holding the cash, they're either not doing their jobs or they're not being given the resources they need to do them.
The former is probably a more likely explanation, but if the problem is that society does not devote the necessary resources, then it is society which should suffer the consequences until society figures out its priorities better--not individuals who have not been arrested for, much less convicted of, a crime.
"Because the 4th Amendment was intended for good, moral, and religious people. As was the entire Constitution. And we no longer live in a society/nation of good, moral, and religious people. We live in a nation that has been filled past breaking point with criminals, addicts, derelicts, traffickers, insane people, corrupt politicians, illegal aliens, foreign spies, and terrorist sleepers."
Fortunately, we have the 2nd Amendment to protect us from people like you. Have a nice day.
You display the mentality of a cop.
Do you actually know what that is? Or is that just prejudice at work?
Our society needs cops, but we don’t let them make our laws
What in God's name are you even talking about? They don't make any laws. They have nothing to do with the Civil/Criminal Forfeiture laws. Those were passed by legislatures and signed by governors vis-a-vis the citizens that elected them.
No, we don’t apply the Constitution selectively
Never said we did.
But there is already a “compromise” which is perfectly legal and perfectly compatible with the Constitution: it’s called due process.
This doesn't offend it.
You're mistaken when you characterize what we're talking about here as the "fruits" of a past crime. The whole purpose of civil forfeiture is to deprive criminals of their means to engage in current/ongoing crime (and, again, this goes FAR beyond mere drug crimes). It's to disrupt their operations, and deprive them of the resources they need to make their nefarious plans possible.
You paint it out as this hugely nefarious thing - but the reality is that it's little different than if you and your chum were out drinking like you're college freshmen, and you took his car keys away to keep him from getting behind the wheel. He can have them back when he sobers up and has sufficiently convinced you of this fact.
Only with the drug trade and traffickers and corruption and illegals and terrorists and everyone else I mentioned - they never sober up.
Some elected sheriffs are okay on constitutional protections, but a lot aren't. Especially when there are $$$'s at stake.
these cops are like southern redneck klansmen who use the “n” word and don’t see why it’s a problem.
One thing that has been forgotten. The National Sheriffs’ Association is either a Union or a Union funded lobbying group. The local police departments receive their funds from the Federal Government directly. Local Government has no control over those funds, therefore no control over the Police. Most of these funds are used to pay Police Officers. This allows raises, overtime and bonuses without going through local Governments or Civil Service agencies. No wonder the Unions are fighting so hard to keep them. The National Sheriffs’ Association is also the same clowns who push for anti-gun laws and screw with self-defense laws. Their fear is that if people own weapons and can defend themselves, crime rates will go down and there will be need for fewer Police Officers.
Don’t know how you could even write that, as your entire paragraph is so back-assedly wrong it’s amazing.
For one, the NSA is an association of Sheriffs which by and large are elected officials and NOT in the police unions. Also, local police departments do NOT receive funds “from the Federal Government directly”, but by and large are funded by local and state taxes (mostly property taxes). Local government funds these departments, and therefore DO have control over the funding.
The entire premise of your paragraph is faulty and so far wrong it’s pathetic. You win "Mute" for your vast amounts of ignorance.
"But focusing on a few anecdotes results in bad policy."
What else would the National Sheriffs Association want us to focus on? Would they prefer that we focus on their members and members of other police unions who literally get away with murder every year? Would they like us to focus on the corrupt political relationship they have their employers and the prosecutors who are supposed to be responsible for holding them accountable for their egregious individual abuses?
Top Article
welcome in website: https://coinusmint.com
"You are innocent until proven guilty, but you are not just carrying around $1 million or $10,000 in cash without some level of notification and legitimacy," he replied. "You've got to be able to demonstrate some level of legitimacy."
Really? $10K. This dude is a crook!