Removing Trump From the Colorado Ballot Won't Make Things Better
You're not going to save democracy by kicking people out of elections.

The Colorado Supreme Court ruled Tuesday that former President Donald Trump is ineligible to seek the presidency and ordered that his name be removed from the state's Republican primary ballot.
The court's reasoning has to do with a clause in the 14th Amendment that prohibits former officials who have engaged "in insurrection or rebellion against" the government from holding office, a provision originally intended to restrain former Confederates from seeking office after the Civil War. In a 4–3 ruling, the Colorado high court determined that Trump's role in instigating the January 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol was sufficient to bar him from the presidency.
"We are mindful of the magnitude and weight of the questions now before us," the majority opinion reads. "We are likewise mindful of our solemn duty to apply the law, without fear or favor, and without being swayed by public reaction to the decisions that the law mandates we reach."
This is, obviously, an unprecedented situation. It is unlikely to be the final word—the U.S. Supreme Court has the final say in constitutional matters, and Trump's campaign has already promised to appeal Tuesday's ruling.
Without knowing what the outcome of that appeal might be, there are three things worth keeping in mind about Tuesday's decision in Colorado—one practical, one philosophical, and one purely hypothetical.
First, this all seems a bit premature given that Trump has not yet been convicted of any crimes connected to the January 6 riot or his attempts to overturn the 2020 election. Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office, and the 14th Amendment's language is somewhat vague—but can someone be guilty of engaging in insurrection without being guilty of at least one actual crime related to it?
The Colorado Supreme Court says yes. I think we should be deeply skeptical of that logic. (Needless to say, the context here changes if Trump is convicted in either of the two election interference cases currently being brought against him.)
Second, let's assume that Trump's harshest critics are correct when they say he represents a unique threat to the future of American democracy. Even so, the idea of booting someone off the ballot to save democracy seems like a weird argument at best—and an authoritarian one at worst.
Yes, the 14th Amendment created a constitutionally valid mechanism for removing an insurrectionist from the ballot. That doesn't mean it's a lever that judges should be eager to pull. Not when there are other, far more democratic ways to prevent dangerous, unfit candidates from becoming president (like, say, by defeating them in open, fair elections), and particularly not when the candidate in question still hasn't been convicted of anything resembling insurrection.
Finally: What's the endgame here? President Joe Biden (or whomever the Democratic nominee turns out to be) is likely to carry Colorado whether Trump is on the ballot or not. Let's suppose courts in other blue states follow Colorado's example. Now he's missing from a bunch of states' ballots, but not ones that are likely to affect the election's outcome. What happens then?
In one scenario, Trump loses but his supporters are able to nurse a permanent grievance that the system wouldn't even let their guy compete. Not for the abstruse reasons that Trump's team tried to conjure up after the 2020 results came in, but because of something that's easy to understand and easy to see as a legitimate grievance.
In another scenario, Trump wins the Electoral College—remember, these states weren't likely to vote for him anyway—but with a far lower percentage of the popular vote. Indeed, the popular and electoral votes would be even more mismatched than in 2000 or 2016. In terms of democratic legitimacy, that outcome might be even worse for the future of the country.
But those are the two new possibilities that the Colorado's Supreme Court has opened with its ruling on Tuesday. All in all, that seems like a decision that will make things worse, not better.
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Has Trump been convicted of insurrection?
The empire is crumbling.
One of the dissenting judges asked something similar.
Given the current absence of federal legislation to enforce Section Three, and given that President Trump has not been charged pursuant to section 2383, the district court should have granted his September 29 motion to dismiss.”
He continued, “the court received and considered a partial congressional report, the admissibility of which is not beyond reproach… I have been involved in the justice system for thirty-three years now, and what took place here doesn’t resemble anything I’ve seen in a courtroom.
"and what took place here doesn’t resemble anything I’ve seen in a courtroom."
I guess he never visited a Soviet courtroom during Stalin's reign.
Show everyone exactly what Trump actually did that constitutes insurrection so we all know what we’re forbidden from doing.
The bar better be higher than telling people what should be obvious that we shouldn’t ignore government corruption, that we should in fact protest it.
If that’s the case…
Stick with the juice-hating, its all you're good for.
He’s not even good for that. If anything, he makes Holocaust denying and anti semitism even more unattractive. Which is really saying something.
If antisemitism is recognizing and saying what Jews do, semitism must be lying.
That makes sense Kol Nidre boy.
You still don’t get it, you Nazi retard. Your idiocy here makes your cause look more moronic and repulsive than it is already.
So keep posting. You denigrate your Nazi dreams far more than I ever could.
Being incapable of understanding the concepts of "relevance" or "evidence" puts that shit's IQ in the two digits, best.
A Slavic channel on TG is saying this rhymes with the 1850s.
Trump must've been convicted of insurrection, because otherwise that would mean the Colorado justices were interfering with an election, and that would be criminal and Democratic party appointed judges would never do that.
^This...
The amount of projection it takes to claim "Trump's harshest critics are correct when they say he represents a unique threat to the future of American democracy" ... while removing opposing candidates from ballots.
Democrats are famous for this approach to politics.
1 - Make-up lies and BS narratives to blame someone else incessantly.
2 - Do EXACTLY what they're blaming onto someone else.
It's exactly like criminals that call in fake crimes to divert police while they go and commit the actual crime they just faked..
They've convinced so many people that they are doing the work of the people that it may not matter. I would say a good 15-20% of the electorate believe that Trump is Hitler 2.0 while encouraging their team to do anything necessary to keep him out of power. Forget about the first term where he did nothing whatsoever to cause anyone with a brain to believe that. It's going to be so much more dictatoresque next time.
Right... and the amount of mental dissonance required to run around praising [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] while blaming opposition of having a 'Hitler' nominee is lefty projection at it's finest.
it's unreal how few people - especially those on the far left - realize that the Nazis were the 'national socialist' party...
The 14th Amendment to the Constitution doesn't say "convicted of insurrection"; it says "engaged in insurrection".
If that simple fact has escaped you...
Doesn't insurrection require some kind of actual violent resistance? Seems the January 6th protests were fairly non violent. The people arrested didn't have guns, grenades, rocket launchers, tanks, APCs, fighter jets, bombers or a single nuke. They didn't even have much in the line of swords.
If that was an insurrection then it was the least violent and most under equipped insurrection in the history of history.
Seems there is still debate as to if the New York Times has the constitutional authority to declare something an insurrection. The point is there is no evidence an insurrection took place for Trump to have led. A protest took place, but a protest doth not an insurrection make.
Did you miss the Colorado court finding that Trump had engaged in insurrection? It followed a court case at which Trump's lawyers argued his case.
The New York Times was not involved...
Living in Denver this is about all I've been hearing about on the local news and all the far left 'progressives' we've been inundated with here lately are of course going to pull a muscle patting themselves on the back so much but regardless of what anyone thinks of Trump they should view this as a SERIOUS
Donald Trump is not even charged with insurrection, is he? What did he do, give a speech and tell people to protest peacefully. One thing Mr. Boehm failed to consider is: what if Florida or another Red state just decided to do the same thing and leave the Democratic nominee off the ballot. The Democratic Party has lost it's mind. They make these accusations of what Trump will do and is unfit for office. He served in office and did a wonderful job. Even during Clinton's term, who I did not like, I could observe reality and see he was not a bad president, just a despicable person.
So the Democratic Party is capable of throwing tens of charges against the presumptive Republican candidate, use the FBI and DOJ to illegally spy on him, draw up impeachment on made up charges, even take him off the ballot for something he has not been charged with or convicted: but they would not cheat an election? Trump had every reason to look into and fight that election.
Again, the 14th Amendment is not a criminal statute.
Who ever officially determined that an insurrection took place?
They're relying on the fact that it was a finding in, of all fucking things, the district-level civil court, judge Sarah B. Wallace. Since she determined an insurrection happened, they just uphold her finding.
Literally one person's legal opinion is the factual underpinning, and it's a district-level civil court judge. It's utterly bonkers.
Yeah…., that’s just bullshit right there. My finding is no such thing happened. And my cognitive analysis is obviously superior to whoever the fuck those people are.
Yah right. They'd have to be successful to call it that.
An un-biased January 6th Committee with Cheney and cry boy on it for the Republicans. The Committee that destroyed all the hidden Capitol videos.
1) Nobody else disqualified under this provision has ever had to be convicted of anything. All that was needed was a court finding of fact that there was an insurrection and that the office holder or candidate participated, and a finding of law that Section 3 applies to that person. We have both in this case.
2) The Constitution contains requirements to serve in office. None need congressional action. In fact, Section 3 only states that congressional action is needed to excuse the person and allow them to run, and does NOT say there needs to be congressional action or a conviction to require that candidates meet the constitutional requirements to hold office. Former president Trump does NOT meet those requirements, based on findings of fact and law in the courts. No more has ever been needed. That may change with this activist Supreme Court.
The legal niceties are beside the point. No state has the right or authority to tell people who they can and can't vote for.
But thanks for giving us the opening to cornhole your side on this now, just like Reid did with judges--including the "activist" ones who you're complaining about. Your side never was known for its future-time orientation.
Now the Constitution's requirements are "legal niceties"...
So you're saying every gun control law is unconstitutional now? Because Sarmour's dissent lays out the problems with your sweeping generality.
I fully support all the Amendments.
Psst…S3 is grounded by S5. Congressional action is imperative.
Psst...The US Supreme Court has yet to agree with your theory.
So Texas can find Joe Biden engaged in insurrection by being a senile twit and remove him from the primary ballot. All it takes is one judge to make that ruling. This opens a new can of worms in our rapid decent into a banana Republic.
The law was intended to TAKE state rights after the Civil War, not grant them. It is not intended for a state to determine and certainly not for judges put on the court from the opposing party. Congress is the determiner and enforcer. The term President was also distinctly taken out of the draft for the amendment. It pertains to officers, which the President appoints. Since he appoints them, I think it is safe to say he is not an officer.
In your bones, you know it is evil, unconstitutional, embarrassing (you can't beat him and you know it), cheating, corrupt.
The decision did say that the district court "found by clear and convincing evidence that President Trump engaged in insurrection as those terms are used in Section Three. Anderson v. Griswold, No. 23CV32577, ¶¶ 241, 298 (Dist. Ct., City & Cnty. of Denver, Nov. 17, 2023)." So, the finder of fact found so. Further the Court summarized "The district court did not err in concluding that the events at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, constituted an “insurrection.” • The district court did not err in concluding that President Trump “engaged in” that insurrection through his personal actions. "
The legal niceties are beside the point. No state has the right or authority to tell people who they can and can’t vote for.
But thanks for giving us the opening to cornhole your side on this now, just like Reid did with judges–including the “activist” ones who you’re complaining about. Your side never was known for its future-time orientation.
Well if the district court said it did not err, I guess it didn't. I thought maybe Trump had a chance if the district court said it was wrong. darn.
Going to post jeff and sarcs talking points for them.
Maddow added, “I mean, I will just raise one other issue. I mentioned this before, but the idea of a healthy democracy, nevertheless, having some sort of disqualifying process, an adjudicated process by which some people and some parties even are prohibited from participating in democratic competition because their point, because what they’ve shown, their track record or platform is anti-democratic in nature, is a thing. That happens all over the world. It happens in our own history in Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.”
"but the idea of a healthy democracy, nevertheless, having some sort of disqualifying process"
Nothing says "healthy democracy" like pulling the leading candidate off the ballot based solely on the accusations of his political opponents.
If this is allowed to stand, then that’s the line. The gloves come off and the democrats are eliminated.
I honestly don't know how Colorado's court system is going to continue functioning for the next few weeks. I wonder if their Supreme Court adjourns for the holidays because I can't doubt that protestors are going to be all over the courthouse.
Antifa counter protesters, immune from prosecution in liberal jurisdictions, have entered the chat.
I really don't think enough people understand where we're at from a historical perspective.
The Meeting of the Right Rightist Minds will now come to Odor!
Years ago by now, Our Dear Leader announced to us, that He may commit murder in broad daylight, and we shall still support Him! So He Has Commanded, and So Must Shit be Done!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/24/donald-trump-says-he-could-shoot-somebody-and-still-not-lose-voters
And now, oh ye Faithful of the Republican Church, Shit Has Become Known Unto us, that Shit is also in His Power and Privilege Ass Well, to murder the USA Constitution in broad daylight. Thus He Has Spoken, and Thus Must Shit Be Done! Thou shalt Render Unto Trump, and simply REND the USA Constitution, and wipe thine wise asses with shit! Do NOT render unto some moldering old scrap of bathroom tissue! Lest we be called fools, or worse!
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html
Proud Boys, STAND with TRUMP, and stand by! And if ye don’t agree 110%, then we don’t need you polluting our world, because all who disagree with us in ANY way are LEFTISTS!!!
There, I think that’s a wrap! I’ve covered shit ALL! You can take the rest of the day off now.
(You’re welcome!)
Fuck off sarc.
According to the name on the label of this gray box, something very irrelevant, failed and cringeworthy must be inside it.
Bingo.
He ignored what happened and what was said here and posted a bunch of Democratic party lies about Trump shooting someone that were refuted eight years ago.
Read the links, stupid and evil, lying bitch! Trump said the things that Trump said!
I think the democrats are too stupid to understand how close they are to being slaughtered in the streets. As it is unlikely that most realA,Erica’s will put up with them for much longer.
The democrat party has nothing to offer, save slavery, oppression, poverty, and starvation. Maybe even nuclear Armageddon.
So it’s time for them to go.
Put succinctly, Factio Democratica delenda est.
Democrato muerte.
Colorado court protests? I haven't heard of a single one.
But you won't do anything. You're just another keyboard warrior who thinks anonymous death threats make you hard.
Actually, it was based on a "clear and convincing" finding of fact by a court, following a trial at which Trump was adequately represented and which he is perfectly entitled to appeal.
I'd like to think the Supreme Court will uphold the Constitution if/when this matter comes before them, but people keep telling me they're corrupt. We shall see.
She's such a dumb fuck. There is a disqualifying process, you insipid cunt, it's called impeachment. Beyond that, the disqualifying process is "Not getting enough votes."
Ths
Sorry, but the 14th Amendment is part of the Constitution.
Feel free to read it sometime.
I don't see anything about democracy in the 14th. It's nothing to do with having a "point" that is anti-democratic, it's to exclude people who fought an actual fucking war against the US government.
Not surprised that she said this because it's Maddow. But she's actually saying that people should be excluded because of their political positions. To protect democracy we must make sure only acceptable choices are offered to voters or they might vote wrong.
They're not trying to defend "democracy", a system where the ultimate power is held by the voters. They're trying to defend "Democracy", a system of rule by Democrats regardless of what the voters want.
They're pretty clear about the voters deciding to put Trump back in office in a free and fair election being the end of what they're defending, after all. So they're sure as hell not defending the voters having a choice.
Wouldn't that be "Democratcy"?
In any case, there are numerous provisions in the Constitution which are not strictly democratic. Calling the US form of governance a "democracy" is true only in a general sense, not a literal one.
Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office, and the 14th Amendment's language is somewhat vague
Reason watches and participates the full use of government against a single person and excuses it. Lol. Fuck off Eric. You have no principles.
(Needless to say, the context here if Trump is convicted in either of the two election interference cases currently being brought against him.)
So any legal challenge or question of election integrity is now an insurrection?
Only if by a Republican.
In January 2017, after Trump's win, House Democrats objected to certifying the election results in 9 states.
Alabama
Florida
Georgia
Michigan
Mississippi
North Carolina
South Carolina
Wisconsin
Wyoming
About 70 House Democrats boycotted Trump’s inauguration.
That's different.
Yeah, it's (D)ifferent.
I'm sure the hoity-toighty lefty judges would scrupulously apply this standard to Democrats who offered any measure of support for the rioters in the so-called "Summer of Love."
I mean, you had all kinds of support for a rather insurrection-y things that they did, from words of support to direct financial support.
No one interfered with those states certification, you ignoramus.
"Objected to"? What a shitshow you present. I "object to" paying taxes but I still do it.
I object to you not being thrown in a pit of snakes pedo.
What interference you fascist fuck?
Are you actually trying to claim that legally contesting election results in the courts using precedents established in the 1870s, 1960, and 2000 is interference?
If so, Seig Heil, you fat fucking pedo.
The ass-clown of the commentariat turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
The mere existence of the democrat party is an existential threat to the republic and an affront to humanity. Therefore anything we do to them is ok.
You can read the court's lengthy write up about what constitutes an "insurrection" starting on page 96 of the opinion. tl;dr: "Insurrection" is not a defined crime, so there's no requirement for someone to be "convicted" of it before having the term applied to them and the court takes it upon itself to figure out plain language interpretations of what insurrection means and whether the activities Trump undertook qualify according to the evidence submitted to the original district court.
You don't have to agree with it, but that is where the answer to your question is.
Do you agree with it?
This is such a great idea! Let us come up with a "crime" that isn't currently defined in law, and then make it self-executing so we don't even need to adjudicate it. We can define and convict in one breath!
Why hasn't someone thought of this before, it's such a remarkably genius idea?
"Let's", being the drafters/ratifiers of the 14th Amendment?
Blame them, not those people who read it and/or swore an oath to support/protect it.
Therefore, by this "courts" reasoning, a single judge in a district in Texas can find Biden "guilty of insurrection" by allowing an invasion at our southern border by thousands of foreign military aged males. These ignoramus four judges, in their zeal to play politics, has opened a Pandora's Box that we may never again close.
Take it one step further. Every State can now do much the same to anybody who tries to get their name on a primary ballot.
Which, is certainly one way to largely nullify the idiocy that was the Seventeenth Amendment and restore the proper authority for determining Senators to the respective State legislatures.
So, silver lining I guess.
Yes, of course. And Joe Biden would also be entitled to due process to challenge that finding.
That's what the Constitution (arguably, at this point) says. Why would we not enforce the Constitution?
"“Insurrection” is not a defined crime, so there’s no requirement for someone to be “convicted” of it before having the term applied to them"
The problem with this position being that "Insurrection" IS a defined crime. Literally, the same people who wrote the 14th amendment had enacted a law making it a crime with the penalty of disqualification, just a few years earlier.
Yes, there is a federal crime called "insurrection", but there is no obvious reference to that law in the 14th Amendment.
Indeed, it would be nonsensical for the 14th Amendment to provide for Congress' ability to "remove the disability" by 2/3 vote if the 14th Amendment's prohibition was a reference to a criminal conviction. At the time the 14th Amendment was enacted, the penalty for the federal crime of insurrection was up to 10 years in prison (plus disqualification from federal office). There is some argument that the office-barring aspect of the statute was not constitutional--step up Professor Josh!--but the imprisonment penalty certainly was.
Assuming a convicted insurrectionist was nevertheless an immensely popular presidential candidate with the backing of 2/3 of Congress, which proceeded to remove the 14th's disability from him, wouldn't he likely still be in prison, a convicted felon? The 14th Amendment doesn't function as a pardon--all it can possibly do is remove an insurrectionist's ability to hold federal office. I suppose if the popular insurrectionist had served his time, he could again be elected to federal office. But it seems an odd omission to fail to provide for springing him from gaol along with removing his disability, if that was what was intended by the 14th Amendment's drafters and ratifiers.
Wow, marxist cunts that redefine everything to suit their purposes redefine things and resident leftist apologist is on board. Shocking.
Second, let's assume that Trump's harshest critics are correct when they say he represents a unique threat to the future of American democracy.
The unique threat to democracy is the actions democrats are currently taking.
1200 protesrors convicted from j6. More than 900 have not been charged with for violence or vandalism.
Removal of legal privileges and executive privileges.
Arrests for people making memes.
Removal of law licenses for lawyers that represent conservatives.
And you turn a blind eye.
https://twitter.com/DolioJ/status/1737340709869355285?t=RSPVY2OqF590WmVPxKNpqg&s=19
This is dangerously close to solicitation.
Make no mistake, that's what she's doing.
"Have you ever wondered why Germans didn’t do anything about Hitler? Well, the rest of the world is wondering exactly that about Americans and Trump."
Well, if it's a civil war they want... Too bad they won't like the outcome.
Even if "Trump is Hitler", the Nazis in the US are deeply leftist, and we will be happy to purge your rot and filth. Don't threaten me with a good time.
Logic dictates that the democrat party no longer exist, and that its supporters be executed. Now i doubt that American citizens yet have the stomach to go that far, but nevertheless, the democrats must be dealt with and put down as terrorists/traitors.
Funny, I woke up this morning to a text message from a Czech friend talking about the Colorado ruling, and not like it was a good thing. Even she is wondering if we are going to have another civil war.
It’s not like southern states took Lincoln off the ballot.
Oh wait..,
Not when there are other, far more democratic ways to prevent dangerous, unfit candidates from becoming president
Lol. God damn boehm. Just pathetic.
My $0 donated during the webathon was well spent.
Same.
They didn't even get the hint as apparently there was an influx of pro Liz donations as she mentioned it once or twice.
I wanted to see merch branded for each editor so we could have donated just to her. Will be interesting to see her take on this tomorrow.
Kmw will tell her not to mention it or just link to Boehms awful take. If she says something will give her extra props.
Got you just below.
Reason’s lone Wolfe.
She doesn't like it.
https://twitter.com/LizWolfeReason/status/1737312813972873689
That’s why the brought in the Wolfe!
Our girl has the right reaction:
https://twitter.com/LizWolfeReason/status/1737312813972873689
Oh shit. Does KMW know she talks to Dave Smith outside of advertised podcast interviews?
I’m taking bets now: more Trump or Florida stories tomorrow?
"Why I'm strategically, reluctantly, minimizing the actions by Democrats:"
This will only help Trump,
They are all in. The left won't stop turning this into a banana republic. They are seeking a reaction.
America is going to die.
Or…. The democrats could……
American rights > democrat lives
Why do you Trump Cultists hate the US Constitution, Jesse?
It is very clear on this issue.
It actually is as the dissenting judges pointed out retard.
The clause used does not include the office of the president. The constitution requires due process, not a judge unilaterally proclaiming guilt of insurrection.
Youre a dem authoritarian dummy. You would wipe your ass with the constitution if it wasn't too old for you.
No, we observe the constitution. Which is something garbage like you wipe your asses with. If this is allowed to stand things will get very ugly. The upside is you will almost certainly get slaughtered in the process of cleansing the democrats.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
"They are seeking a reaction."
Are they?
Or are they just doing what they want to do because they know there won't be any consequences for them...
The problem is that we’re still 11 months from the election and they won’t stop, and they’ve clearly decided there’s no limits to what they’ll do.
The boomerang for this is potentially large.
They want to get rid of Brandon.
This ruling makes it that much easier.
I think you're underestimating the effects of 8 years of anti-Trump propaganda to the average democrat and low info independents. Most of the strong reactions will be from people that already know what's going on.
And like always, few of whom will actually do anything.
Many keyboards may need to be replaced, however.
Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office
Such horse shit. Every president since LBJ was manifestly unfit for office especially the one in office now who you voted for.
And LBJ was fit for office because of his election rigging, or because of his marvelous handling of Viet Nam?
The runoff vote count, handled by the Democratic State Central Committee, took a week. Johnson was announced the winner by 87 votes out of 988,295, an extremely narrow margin of victory. However, Johnson's victory was based on 200 "patently fraudulent" ballots reported six days after the election from Box 13 in Jim Wells County, in an area dominated by political boss George Parr. The added names were in alphabetical order and written with the same pen and handwriting, following at the end of the list of voters.
without a formal declaration of war. Johnson ordered the deployment of combat units for the first time, and dramatically increased the number of American troops to 184,000
Just to name two of his finer accomplishments.
Sorry I meant to include LBJ. JFK too, he ramped up the Vietnam war
In their defense, they were defending an ally from invasion.
JFK fucked up real bad with the murder of No Diuem, destabilising the South's government.
Just because war's justified doesn't mean HOW it was fought was good.
They really weren't.
They were defending France's 'right' to continue to oppress their colony of Vietnam.
I'm not saying communists are better - but being a French colony was always a brutal experience.
The French having their colonies restored after WWII was a hideously stupid idea.
The Great Society was probably - outside of the Covid response - the worst peacetime decision made by any politician in the US. It ripped the black community apart, laid waste to their families, and put them right back into a plantation of the mind.
Indeed, the popular and electoral votes would be even more mismatched than in 2016 or 2000. In terms of democratic legitimacy, that outcome might be even worse for the future of the country.
Boehmtard, bad as this is, considering we've had EC vs. Popular vote dissent before, this is just whistling past the graveyard.
The real terrifying aspect that you're downplaying is what you, a scant few years ago, would've hissed and called Nationalism. Full-scale, nuclear lawfare Nationalism. That is, going forward, for any office from the President to military officers on down (according to the 14A), anyone and everyone can be barred from appointment or nomination simply by allegation of insurrection until after a court has ruled.
And that really is some watering the tree of liberty level shit.
The popular vote trope is just that. We don't elect on the popular vote. Dissenting voices in deep partisan areas don't vote. Pretending the popular vote means something is just more of Erics ignorance.
Brandon aided and abetted the Taliban.
He's disqualified.
Feel free to challenge his qualification for office.
Do let us know how that works out, eh?
Texas is already discussing invalidating Biden on similar grounds. Assuming some state level Republicans can drop a pair the election could be very interesting.
Of course they are.
It's funny, though, that MAGAts have no problem with doing the "corrupt acts" themselves, but never seem to be able to think of them first!
Right, but more my point is that the, if this moves past Trump successfully, we're talking about rather literal (to the historic instantiation) Volksgerichtshof (oder Volksgerichtshöfe) where you simply allege some dissident is insufficiently loyal to the Party/Reich and they are barred from taking place in the political process until the court finds them guilty and sentences them.
If this happens it’s time a revolution. The democrats have to go.
It just did.
SCOTUS likely strike this ruling down. If it doesn’t, then shit will get real.
I don't know what you're waiting for. Do you?
I don't think people understand this is no longer hyperbolic. Today Democrats crossed the Rubicon.
They really did.
Yer, clearly we have reached "tipping point" #45 by now?
I don’t read Boehm, and all of Jesse’s quotes above are about what I would have expected, but holy shit he went full mob rule?
Does he even have a clue what libertarianism is?
holy shit he went full mob rule?
And not just full mob rule but full mob rule in the background of Nationalist Socialist Populism.
It's like literally worrying that two parliamentary elections might fail in 1932 Germany and wouldn't know how to resolve the issue... except he and the magazine have spent months lecturing us about the existential evil of Nationalist Populism.
At a certain point stupidity no longer excuses this kind of coverage...
Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office
Because he led a violent insurrection and set up fake electors to subvert the rightful winner - Trump clearly is Constitutionally unfit according to the state of Colorado.
Hopefully, the hypocritical boneheads on SCOTUS follow the TEXT of the Constitution like they claim to?
Nahhh, that's all marketing bullshit. SCOTUS clearly makes political decisions. This "originalist" crap will be completely ignored.
Kill your self you nazi fag.
Conservaturds making friends, gathering votes, and influencing people by... PEDDLING KOOL-AID AND SUICIDE!!! How's it workin' for ya, servant and serpent of the Evil One?
EvilBahnFuhrer, drinking EvilBahnFuhrer Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
He’s truly, completely a necrophiliac,
His brain, squirming toad-like, is REALY, really whack!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
The text thatiterally excludes the office of the president? The text that discusses due process and a judge not determining guilt sans trial?
Fake electors like Hawaii in 1964? The precedent set and never criminalized?
This must the the classical liberalism you claim to believe.
What I know is that Brandon aided and abetted the Taliban.
He's dsiqualified!
And his vp supported a secessionist movement in Seattle during the summer of love.
I haven't heard this.
Where did you get this idea?
During the BLM riots, Kamala was helping to bail them out of jail. Later a group would take over part of Seattle and establish CHAZ (Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone). Which they declared was no longer part of the United States.
Do you have a link please?
https://abovethelaw.com/2020/07/an-analysis-of-chazs-declaration-of-independence-from-the-united-states-of-america/
Cuntala wasn't mentioned in the article.
Yeah I fucked up the links.
Here's a tweet from Harris' own account advocating for a bail fund that was helping the BLM crowd: https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1267555018128965643
Later BLM protestors would take over part of Seattle and declare that they were no longer part of the US (granted, some later tried to backtrack on that and change the name to CHOP).
Cuntala is disqualified!
When Harris bailed rioters out of jail and openly said she supported them.
Calling for people to "peacefully and patriotically" tell the government what they think is a violent insurrection?
Keep in mind that you’re talking to a lying, racist, sexist that had his previous handle banned by posting links to child porn.
In case you were hoping for a legitimate response.
I know, but I can't help myself.
Been there.
I just heard of him.
Did the cops search his home for pictures of naked underage girls?
Reason reported him, so they must've done something. Pluggo probably had to destroy a dozen flash drives.
They did? I’ve never heard that. Can you elaborate?
Are you talking about the judges, Boehm, or SPB?
And you clicked on 'em...
He didn’t lead shit.
Time for states to kick Biden off for taking bribes from foreign nationals.
More evidence of that than insurrection.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit.
Having the most votes in the election is like scoring the most total runs in the world series. Neither means anything.
It is electoral votes, and the number of games won. Nothing else.
The real goal is to goad Republicans into backing Trump for the primary, since Biden can beat them. Or Trump Jr in DeSantis.
If Republicans nominated the sane, traditional Republican style candidate, Haley, she would trounce Biden. She's up 14 points on him. Trump is like 4, and DeSantis loses
Have you looked at the polls lately?
Found the neocon.
Have you been on Threads.net?
So many people are saying, vote for Brandon. They say refusing to vote for Brandon is a vote for Trump.
From the polls, it's clear that voting for Brandon in the primaries is a vote for Trump in the general!
Here's my Threads.net page.
https://www.threads.net/@zc2125034
Whose sock are you?
I’m actually impressed it waited this long to start pimping it’s website. And it’s been kind of amusing to this point.
But threads? Really??
I didn't say I was impressed with the link. It's been posting here for weeks, and unless I missed it this is the first time it posted it.
Glowie looking for folks to post links?
Definite possibility.
If Republicans nominated the sane, traditional Republican style candidate
True.
Likewise Newsom would trounce Trump by 5-7.
Both parties are led by idiots.
Have you even TRIED killing yourself? You should. See what all the fuss is about.
Hey Punk Boogers!!!
Conservaturds making friends, gathering votes, and influencing people by... PEDDLING KOOL-AID AND SUICIDE!!! How's it workin' for ya, servant and serpent of the Evil One?
EvilBahnFuhrer, drinking EvilBahnFuhrer Kool-Aid in a spiraling vortex of darkness, cannot or will not see the Light… It’s a VERY sad song! Kinda like this…
He’s a real Kool-Aid Man,
Sitting in his Kool-Aid Land,
Playing with his Kool-Aid Gland,
His Hero is Jimmy Jones,
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jim-Jones
Loves death and the dying moans,
Then he likes to munch their bones!
He’s truly, completely a necrophiliac,
His brain, squirming toad-like, is REALY, really whack!
Has no thoughts that help the people,
He wants to turn them all to sheeple!
On the sheeple, his Master would feast,
Master? A disaster! Just the nastiest Beast!
Kool-Aid man, please listen,
You don’t know, what you’re missin’,
Kool-Aid man, better thoughts are at hand,
The Beast, to LEAVE, you must COMMAND!
A helpful book is to be found here: M. Scott Peck, Glimpses of the Devil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1439167265/reasonmagazinea-20/
Hey EvilBahnFuhrer …
If EVERYONE who makes you look bad, by being smarter and better-looking than you, killed themselves, per your wishes, then there would be NO ONE left!
Who would feed you? Who’s tits would you suck at, to make a living? WHO would change your perpetually-smelly DIAPERS?!!?
You’d better come up with a better plan, Stan!
SQRLSY should also self abort. It has no right to exist, and is an abomination of nature. It makes pieces of shit look good.
Likewise Newsom would trounce Trump by 5-7.
Chuckle. Okay Plug.
turd, the
tds-aaddled ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"The real goal is to goad Republicans into backing Trump for the primary, since Biden can beat them."
This is the dumbest cope/talking point to come out of the worst campaign in US history.
Congratulations, you've proved you not only have borderline personality disorder, but also an IQ that could be most generously estimated around 85.
85? So similar to Biden, in his prime?
A traditional Republican candidate is worthless at this point. We need Trump. We also need to be building up a whole back bench of next generation Trumps..
Brandon aided and abetted the Taliban.
Section 3 of the 14th amendment says that those who aid and abet enemies are disqualified.
Therefore, Brandon's disqualified.
Is that too hard to understand?
Biden just implemented Trump's plan to abandon Afghanistan. He did it poorly, and droned an innocent family on the way out, but it was was Trump was going to do.
Lol. No on all counts. The timing was key and a part of the talismans response when Joe delayed it.
Wow.
Like I said, if for some reason, the U.S. decided to transfer Ramstein base to the Germans (who are friendly now), the officer in charge of the withdrawal would have the obligation to take all the weapons and the computer stuff and the documents with him. Leaving it behind, even for a friendly country, would be a court-martial offense!
He implemented it by leaving behind American military stuff.
Leaving behind American military stuff when withdrawing forces from FRIENDLY territory's inexcusable. If a general was, say, ordered to withdraw from a base in the Philippines (a friendly country) and he left behind an arsenal of American weapons or computer servers with American data, hed've been reprimanded, if not court-martialed!
Twas a sloppy pullout.
Your original account here had a forced sloppy pullout.
What do you mean by that?
He posted links to kiddy porn.
Really? When did that happen?
A few years ago. Unfortunately, Kiddie Raper won’t go away. Or commit suicide. I’ve certainly tried to convince him that he should.
That's disgusting!
Buttplug got permabanned and for the first time ever Reason nuked an entire comment thread.
He's back to ban evading with a new account. Hence the 2.
I know, right? He’s a real vile piece of shit. And openly racist too. And not a democrat’s idea of racist. I mean REALLY racist.
In light of all that I’ve been trying to convince him that suicide is his only solution, but he’s just too selfish to stop raping children and do the right thing.
When they clicked on the CP links, thus downloading the shit to their own computers "just to make sure it was really CP" (presumably). They are really very smart people, obviously.
Another topic you’re either completely ignorant about, or lying. Or both.
turd lies. That's not a surprise to anyone who reads his constant stream of bullshit.
But it's becoming obvious that as Misek is too stupid to understand the concepts of "evidence" or "relevance", the concept of "honesty" is simply beyond turd's ken.
No, he changed the plan to leave before fighting season, as agreed between Trump and the Taliban, to 9/11 for some sick fuck political show, then had to move it back forward as the country was being overrun. Then he left a bunch of our military equipment there, and sacrificed anyone in country that was an ally.
You leftists really are shameful how you put your political alliances ahead of the country, basic moral decency, and actual human lives.
There's the rifles, ammunition, vehicles, etc that he chose to leave behind for the Taliban to take.
He also funds our enemies, like Iran.
One could, of course, argue that negotiating with the Taliban at all provided "aid and comfort" to the Taliban (who are certainly "enemies" of the United States).
Probably not a winning argument in court, but you're welcome to try.
(Needless to say, the context here changes if Trump is convicted in either of the two election interference cases currently being brought against him.)
Not really. Election interference, even if he broke the law doing it, simply doesn't rise to the level of being an insurrection. I know people keep trying to manipulate the language in order to win semantic games, but
1) There was no insurrection, and
2) Trump did not incite the riot that is the closest thing you could possibly point to and say was an insurrection.
Even if he's found guilty on the main case involve January 6, it's simply guilty of obstruction of an official proceeding. That just isn't an insurrection. They would need to charge something much more extreme and find him guilty of it in order to reach that bar. You can't just take "judicial notice" that an insurrection happened, judicial notice only exists for facts that are undisputed. "The court takes notice of the fact that One plus One equals Two." You can't take something contentions, unproven, and debatable and just pretend it's a commonly accepted fact.
guilty of obstruction of an official proceeding.
Fine. Two years in prison.
That's so beyond the point of what any of this is about.
"guilty of obstruction of an official proceeding."
How did he do that, Plugly? By telling people to "go home in peace and love"?
You posted kiddie porn here. Since you did that over the internet, it’s a federal crime. So ten years in general population at a maximum security federal prison for you. I hear the other inmates aren’t fond of people who rape children. People like you.
What's the penalty for downloading it to your own computer, for "research purposes" (like you guys always claim)?
Do let us know after you're sentenced!
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Did anyone ask the Colorado Supreme Court what office of the government Trump would have held upon winning the state's presidential primary? Because it seems to me the answer is none. He would have to win enough primaries to become the GOP nominee for President (still not an office of the government), and then win a later election to become the President Elect. At that point a challenge seems relevant.
The text of the 14th Amendment says certain people cannot hold an office, but winning a state primary doesn't confer an office of the government.
Fuck, if Team Blue had half a brain they'd shut up and let Trump win the nomination, and then challenge if he defeated President Pudding Cup. If Trump were disqualified at that point, it's probably too late for a special election and the dementia case currently in office wins by default.
Most logical argument I have read in this thread.
Yes, whether a "disqualified person" could nevertheless appear on a primary ballot is a matter of Colorado state law (with which the Colorado Supreme Court is presumably familiar).
The 14th Amendment only speaks about "holding" office, not running for office or appearing on ballot papers. Everything else happens at the state level. Different states may bar disqualified persons at different points. Let's see what happens next.
"Can someone be guilty of engaging in insurrection without being guilty of at least one actual crime related to it? The Colorado Supreme Court says yes. I think we should be deeply skeptical of that logic."
Based on the history of Section 3, I would be deeply skeptical of any conclusion that disqualification hinged on a criminal conviction. Section 3 was enacted to block Confederate officers from federal office, and virtually none of the individuals considered to be disqualified after its initial passage had been formally convicted of insurrection. It was simply understood that the Confederacy had engaged in an insurrection and that its officers were guilty of insurrection and therefore ineligible to hold office.
You might think that is bad policy, but a requirement for a criminal conviction before Section 3 disqualification kicks in has absolutely no basis in the history or original meaning of that clause.
In addition, I'd note that Congress previously voted on two separate occasions to remove the disqualification that attached to the Confederate officers, which would not have been necessary if a conviction were required to trigger disqualification.
There was something else different in 1868-namely, that nobody could really dispute that there had been a recent insurrection. Even the most self-righteous Confederates, claiming they'd been justified, would scarcely deny that they had broken faith with the United States.
You can't just say "It's obvious that an insurrection happened," when the insurrection itself is a disputed fact. You need a proper legal finding that there was an insurrection, and a Colorado civil court is not the proper authority to make such a declaration.
But that just proves the point. At the time, it was understood that there didn't need to be a conviction of insurrection to be disqualified under Section 3. Even if that understanding was based on the fact of a very obvious recent insurrection (and I'll note that some would argue that January 6 was also an obvious insurrection), the fact that no conviction was necessary then necessitates the conclusion that no conviction is necessary now. Original understanding is binding, and the meaning and requirements of Section 3 do not change simply because time moves further from the Civil War.
(and I’ll note that some would argue that January 6 was also an obvious insurrection),
That's the fucking problem. It's an argument. It's not a broadly accepted fact. In fact, it's an extremely partisan-dependent opinion. You can't just declare that something happened, it can only exist as an undisputed fact. The 14th Amendment was itself a recognition of the fact that an insurrection happened because it was passed in the aftermath of it, and was a requirement of readmission. Basically every state that ratified it had joined the consensus determination that an insurrection happened. It's not "well this thing arguably happened."
Absent any broad consensus that an insurrection even happened, how can you come to any finding that Trump was a party to it? Surely that requires a high standard of proof, perhaps beyond even a reasonable doubt.
One can not honestly argue that Trump did not attempt a coup to stay on power as an unelected president. The facts are well known and there is no defense to what he did.
https://reason.com/2023/12/19/removing-trump-from-the-colorado-ballot-wont-make-things-better/?comments=true#comment-10364735
There is absolutely a defense to what he did, and the defense is that he tried every legal recourse to contest what he perceived of as a corrupted election. He worked with lawyers because his goal was to follow legal avenues. That's the defense.
I don't have to agree with everything he did or said, or like it, to think he didn't break the damn law, or that even if he did break the damned law, he still isn't an insurrectionist. He didn't incite a riot, and the riot is the closest you can come to saying that anything resembling an insurrection happened.
Same with his damned border wall. I hated that thing, but Trump always obeyed when Congress and courts told him NO. Compare that to Biden and his student loan schemes, where he himself said it was unconstitutional and went ahead with it anyway.
Pretty damned clear which one obeyed the laws and which one didn't.
Nuh uh!
— sarcasmic
Yes, one can honestly argue that because it’s true. Only Marxist garbage like you buy into such ridiculous propaganda.
Still never going to be dumber than shrike seeetheart.
Marg, the attempt to stay in power or negate an election has occurred, and not that long ago. The Democrats attempted to do it by having electors change votes and putting in other electors in their place before the Electoral College in 2016. Vice President Gore attempted to turn a state by having a state court allow only recounting votes in a county of Florida he commanded a huge lead in. Stacy Abrahams and Hillary Clinton both said at the time, and still do, that their elections were stolen. They are not insurrectionists? What is an impeachment, other than an insurrection? For the Russian Collusion impeachment, the Democrats provided the fake evidence, had the FBI participate in presenting it and then started the impeachment.
Does it?
Again, whether a criminal conviction is required for Section 3 disqualification does not depend on the level of broad societal acceptance of whether an insurrection occurred. You might think that is good policy given the debate about whether January 6 constituted an insurrection, but such a requirement is nowhere to be found in either the text or history of Section 3. All you've done is highlight why you think the non-requirement of a criminal conviction made more sense back then. But Section 3 hasn't been amended, so it is some living constitutionalist garbage to argue that a criminal conviction is required today when it so obviously wasn't required originally.
Also, as a policy matter, I think it is straight-up crazy to suggest that the burden for disqualification should be "beyond a reasonable doubt." That someone could be qualified to sit at the head of government because there is *only* a 90% chance that they are a traitorous insurrectionist is bonkers.
There is not mechanism that says that a state can disqualify a candidate, either. The mechanism for a candidate is to be disqualified is not spelled out at all, because it was written in a context where there was a known quantity of people it applied to.
This is why people are pointing that there should be a conviction, or some appropriate incontrovertible finding. Because insurrection is a crime, and the court is claiming Trump committed a crime absent any conviction for the crime, nor any agreement that there even was such a crime.
(and I’ll note that some would argue that January 6 was also an obvious insurrection)
Those people would be stupid or dishonest.
This "insurrection" is what we used to call a sit-in, and there've been sit-ins in the Capitol before. There was sporadic violence associated with it, as is common in these sorts of things, but I don't think it counts even as a "riot".
Uhm, well, Andrew Johnson did give a blanket pardon to literally all Confederate Officers in 1868. They weren't prosecuted under state laws because none of them had broken any state laws, but they also weren't prosecuted under federal laws because Confederate States basically weren't allowed back into the union until their legislatures ratified the 14th Amendment. Most of those didn't happen until after 1868.
Well then that just proves the point. They were disqualified despite never having been convicted of insurrection, even following a presidential pardon. The historical record on that is just crystal clear. Again, can argue whether it's a good idea or not. But there is just zero historical basis for arguing that Section 3 disqualification requires a conviction.
But they were disqualified because an actual insurrection took place.
Are you trying to argue that an actual insurrection took place in 2021?
1. Yes, I think that January 6 qualified as an insurrection based on how that term was understood at the time the Fourteenth Amendment was enacted. Notably, a lot of qualified jurists and scholars agree with me on that point.
2. Whether January 6 was an insurrection is beside the point of whether a criminal conviction is required for Section 3 disqualification. You could argue that Section 3 doesn't disqualify Trump because he did not actually engage in insurrection (although I would disagree with you). But the text and history of Section 3 pretty clearly foreclose the argument that Trump is not disqualified because *he was not convicted* of insurrection.
None of these chumps will ever admit your point 2.
That's all circular....how does a court know whether an "insurrection" occurred, or whether any particular individual participated in one, absent an adjudication? Judgments are exactly how courts determine facts.
It doesn’t matter. There was no insurrection in 2021.
That still does require the Confederate officer to have been openly a part of an organization that had engaged in an insurrection though.
Trump doesn't meet that standard.
So maybe you don't need an individualized finding of guilt, but you at least need to have been a member of the organization.
I see you now want to re-litigate the factual question of whether an "insurrection" occurred.
But does this mean you accept that the 14th Amendment's reference to "insurrection" doesn't require a criminal conviction?
Somehow, I doubt it!
Fuck off you commie cunt. If violent riots and actual annexation of US territory by your marxist friends in BLM doesn't count as insurrection then guided tours of the capitol certainly don't qualify.
Does the 14th prohibit running for office or only taking it?
And, since when, is the winner of some party primary considered to be holding office? The 14th implies there is nothing wrong with running, because 2/3 of each House can overturn the disability should the alleged insurrectionist win the general election.
Holding it.
The rest is state law; could vary by state.
Yes, the 14th Amendment created a constitutionally valid mechanism for removing an insurrectionist from the ballot.
And it's improper for district judges at the state level to make such a determination. There's been no legislation or resolution adopted which finds that an insurrection took place. It's the courts adopting a purely political position and pretending it holds up to criminal level scrutiny. The 14th Amendment seems clearly aimed at giving CONGRESS a power it otherwise wouldn't have, which is to disqualify a list of understood insurrectionists, in the context of a fucking WAR that had just happened that nobody was pretending was anything else.
Legislatures do not generally "find fact"; they make law on the basis of political considerations.
Courts, on the other hand, are generally tasked with determining facts. Indeed, in the instant case, a judge held hearings to determine the facts at issue, and reached a conclusion based not on a preponderance of the evidence, but based on "clear and convincing" evidence.
So one lady in Colorado thinks an insurrection occurred. There are a few tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions, who disagree with her. Because she wears a robe, she wins? Ludicrous.
What is your opinion of Marbury v. Madison, I wonder...
Any bets on how each of the SCOTUS judges rule?
6-3 minimum in Trump's favor.
Demands will be made that all three of Trump's nominees recuse themselves because they cannot be impartial and Thomas will have the usual demands for recusal because he accepted gifts from people possibly associated with Trump. Final verdict will be 4-1 against Trump because, you know, Roberts....
you know, Roberts….
Chief Justice Roberts and the Demojudiciary.
For once, Roberts being well, Roberts, may play into our favor. He's not one to rock the boat if he can help it and allowing a state court to remove a top presidential candidate like this would set the type of precedent that makes Roberts squeamish.
I think you're right on the 6-3, but I've got my fingers crossed. And that makes me sad.
6-3 for Trump.
States rights only matter to Republicans when they oppose abortion.
Just so we're clear, if Texas and Florida decided to remove Biden from the ballot you'd be fine with it?
Just so we’re clear, if mass murderers are given the exact same sentence (punishment) as saintly, non-offending people, you'd be OK with shit?
What, you mean like mass murderer Biden who drone struck an innocent family after his bumbling got 13 US soldiers killed?
Traversing this otherworldly space filled with gray boxes that carry grotesque symbols and smell like the unnameable, what’s with the strange rituals where the inhabitants of this realm seem to be talking to these boxes on occasion? What is the purpose of your utterances? Do you know something about these boxes?
Butt, whatabout that them thar whatabouts? Whatabout Hillary? Whatabout OJ Simpson?
How many brain cells does it take to run a socio-political simulation on the following:
Judge and Jury: “Murderer, we find you guilty of murder! 20 years in the hoosegow for YOU! Now OFF with ye!”
Murderer: “But OJ Simpson got off for murder, why not me? We’re all equal, and need to be treated likewise-equal!”
Judge and Jury: “Oh, yes, sure, we forgot about that! You’re free to go! Have a good life, and try not to murder too many MORE people, please! Goodbye!”
Now WHERE does this line of thinking and acting lead to? Think REALLY-REALLY HARD now, please! What ABOUT OJ Simpson, now? Can we make progress towards peace & justice in this fashion?
(Ass for me, I think we should have PUT THE SQUEEZE on OJ!)
"Nurse! I posted it again!"
"Hey LOOK, Evil One! Ass your ever-faithful Servant and Serpent, I have yet AGAIN totally deflected, and IGNORED the truths that SQRLSY One speaks of! Aren't I THE very Most Perfect Servant and Serpent that You have, Dearest Evil One?"
After today?
Yes.
I like how your "moral code" is almost entirely determined by your enemies' actions.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
You, uh, [straightens tie, sits up, visibly sobers up] *ahem* know who else, *ahem* set up an, uh, extra-constitutional court to try political dissidents for non-crimes in a disappointed reaction to an assault on the capital...
I'm just trying to imagine the agreeing to disagree that took place in judges chambers on this one.
Is your puny non-brain able to comprehend that being convicted of a crime is NOT needed to be disqualified from being POTUS? Non-native-born USA citizens, for example, are NOT eligible! "They won't let me be POTUS!!! WAAAAAA!!!!"
What the fuck are you blabbing about?
You stupid sore-in-the-cunt cunt-sore-va-turds are FAR too mentally handicapped to distinguish between "being convicted of a crime, and being punished for it" and being "punished" by NOT being allowed to hold IMMENSELY POWERFUL POLITICAL OFFICES!!!!
How STUPID CAN YE GET?!?!?
I just hope the four justices voting for this arrived at their decision reluctantly.
Strategically.
Eagerly
They may have reached the FAFO stage of decision making.
Should they be squeamish about upholding the Constitution for some reason? I wish more judges took their jobs as seriously.
A Colorado court just wrote the headline for the top story of basically every news outlet in the entire world for tomorrow. Think about that.
Perhaps boulder than they had anticipated.
A rocky road ahead.
Traversing this otherworldly space filled with gray boxes that carry grotesque symbols and smell like the unnameable, what's with the strange rituals where the inhabitants of this realm seem to be talking to these boxes on occasion? What is the purpose of your utterances? Do you know something about these boxes?
Posted in wrong place, oh man, im gonna go back to not using this pathetic glitch fest of a shit fuck cunt shit fuck shit bitch
It's ok. It was funny twice. 😀
Wonder how Republicans in Colorado will react if this is upheld by SCOTUS. And if upheld by them it is likely to be done in other states. A post civil war era amendment could, ironically, trigger something similar to the Bleeding Kansas fighting that preceded the American Civil War.
If they don't accept the Constitution, they can go fuck themselves.
If they do respect it, they must respect the 14th Amendment as much as the 2nd Amendment.
With your attitude I hope the shooting happens.....this was an extra-constitutional act, not a constitutional one.
They won't do shit.
https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/status/1737256982510239855
Interestingly, they're staying their own ruling until January 4, barring a ruling from the Supreme Court, and are keeping Trump on the ballot in the meantime. Meaning, they're sending this up to SCOTUS, which is almost certainly going to overrule it, and making zero changes to their ballots for now.
Creating a sensationalist headline in the hopes that it spurs on a riot, which can be used as campaign fodder against Trump?
If so I think they're underestimating "a riot".
Or just being sensible given the huge weight of their decision.
A decision based entirely on emotion, wow some decision to make if you cannot be bothered to defend it.
So if the Supreme Court declares this unconstitutional, does that mean the Colorado Supreme Court is guilty of breaking the law in interfering with an election?
There is no law.
There’s no law for any of this shit that they’re using to attack Trump. And let’s be honest, if this stands. The rule of law is officially over in the US. So it will be time to clean house and obliterate the democrats and disband the DNC.
How much more more are we going to take?
You? Quite a lot more, looks like!
We need to think more like the Dems.
Every CO justice who voted for this should be indicted on election interference. Sentenced to the harshest term possible to deter others from following the example.
But that's not "lawfare", apparently...
The main argument against this is “In a democracy we let the voters decide.” However this argument falls apart when the candidate in question has already been show to disregard the results of an election.
A core part of freedom is the ability to chose your own political leaders, otherwise one would live under a dictatorship. Had Trump succeeded in doing what he tried to do and stayed in power after Jan 20, he would have literally ended the US as a free country.
He absolutely is disqualified under 14A.
The main argument against this is “In a democracy we let the voters decide.” However this argument falls apart when the candidate in question has already been show to disregard the results of an election.
I was wondering when the "whataboutists" would bring up Hillary Clinton.
This leftist cunt hasn't been around for months, then shows up out of nowhere for this article.
So which Reason staff is it?
Eric?
Good guess. He IS a leftist cunt.
Youre not very smart are you.
Youre not smart enough to spell "You're" correctly! And ALL of the SMART people lust after a TrumptatorShit! Right, right-wing wrong-nut?
Fuck off sarc.
Another one of those weird gray boxes, I'm tellin' ya, somethings not right here... they all say something about "sqrlsy" on the label and they reek, Jesus Christ!
If you say so it must be true.
You can keep pretending that election fraud didn’t give Biden the electoral votes of 5-6 states, but there are 75 million or so voters who know that isn’t true.
And what exactly did Trump do to try to stay in office? Challenge those slates of electors? Try to get the election fraud investigated and rectified? He quietly moved out, at the specified time. So, how did he illegally try to stay in office?
All of that is just chatter for the democrats to make up a reason to attack Trump. Just lie, everything else. And make no mistake, this isn’t about Trump at all. This is about the Marxist democrats, and their agenda to turn the US into the next Soviet Union.
The discussion should be about what needs to happen to remove the democrat party from America. Anything else is a waste of time.
The purported insurrection was not a successful one. That's the only reason why he left office.
He did give it ample time to work, but his supporters let him down, again!
But removing your freedom to choose your own politicians (they're not fucking 'leaders' you nonce) *isn't* living in a dictatorship?
Yer, if we can't vote for Obama in 2024, we're "living in a dictatorship"!
Removing Trump From the Colorado Ballot Won't Make Things Better
I come here for the forceful repudiation of unconstitutional lawfare, I stay for the promotion of Green Initiatives to Fight Global Climate Change.
Youre not smart enough to spell "You're" correctly! And ALL of the SMART people lust after a TrumptatorShit! Right, right-wing wrong-nut?
Huh... this time it's a lone gray box, strange "sqrlsy" label again, and the same atrocious smell... where do these come from? I can't imagine anybody would be ready to actually open one of these, I'm almost vomiting myself out of homeostasis just standing next to it.
It should be put down. I favor a shotgun blast to whatever passes for its head. Then burn the carcass.
My prediction of what will follow:
You'll see a petition requesting that Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Coney-Barret recuse themselves from ruling on this, probably coming from some state-level figures but possibly being signed by most of the Democrats in Congress. Naturally, I expect those three justices to stuff that where it came from.
But it will then be ammunition calling for Biden to appoint more justices to SCOTUS, since the current disposition of the court is clearly corrupt since they wouldn't recuse themselves in a case where they have a conflict of interest. They'll talk about impeachment but it's obviously going nowhere since they don't have the votes for it.
I doubt they'll actually try to stuff the court prior to next November, but who knows? I just predict we're going to hear a LOT more about expanding the court than any time since the FDR administration.
Well, I don’t think that the Senate can, all by itself, expand the number of Justices on the Supreme Court. I would expect that it would take concurrence of the House, and likely also be subject to filibuster by the 49 Republican Senators. Face it - it isn’t going to happen with this Congress.
Well this is where you're going to get into the Constitutional question. Currently, the law governing the size of the Supreme Court is the Judiciary Act of 1869, setting the size at one Chief Justice and 8 associate justices. However, the Constitution does not grant Congress the power to establish the size of the Supreme Court, that's an assumed power. The Constitution says nothing about the size.
What would happen if the President just nominated a slew of justices and they were all approved by the Senate? There's nothing saying he can't do that. There's actually no nomination process envisioned in the Constitution at all, nor any requirement that they actually restrict themselves to whatever size Congress requires. They've only followed that prescription because it's been better for stability, and for avoiding excessive contention. But given where we are, with the left resurrecting Section III of the 14th Amendment, which everyone believed was a dead clause, solely to go after a political opponent they particularly dislike, we've reached a new level of contentiousness.
I don't doubt you'll hear more people suggesting this idea of just having Biden nominate a bunch of justices to see what happens, just like people started fishing out the "insurrection clause" on January 7, 2021.
"Not gonna see it happen this session"
The senate filibuster is a tradition. The majority can and has tossed that bylaw out. The democrats deployed that "nuclear option" and lost the Supreme Court.
Now?
We are living in an era of nakedly partisan prosecutions in front of nakedly partisan judges. You really think only having a slim majority in the senate is an impediment?
Even a slim minority could do it. A republican president with a closely divided minority could simply follow the democrat precedent and prosecuted a few democrat senators to retake the majority.
These ass-hats have almost unmade our constitutional republic, all in the name of saving a few positions of power for corrupt cronies.
"A republican, if you can keep it"
Indeed.
Comments are broken!
Editing was overrated anyway. Back to the good old days!
Yes, this... Editing was what I had trouble with here! Delete your entire post and replace it, or add a link, and it goes into the void!
Well I used their contact form to alert the web master that their newly added editing feature is broken. Not sure anyone will read it and respond.
Why are you talking to strange gray boxes that smell like something out of Lovecraft novel? Do you know something about them I don't? Have you found any pattern to where they occur and why?
SQRLSY should have been Euthanized years ago.
Colorado voters for Trump hardest hit.
Well, until this snowballs into an extinction level event for the democrats.
REAL SOON (aka, just as soon as Elmer gets off the pot).
Everything is all fun and games hating on the evil orange man until people realize everything the legal system is doing to him applies to them as well. Common law is a bitch when it’s your turn for the ride.
https://twitter.com/DeputyDonk/status/1737322869468569841
Poor, poor babies!!! They are NOT allowed to be POTUS and take an oath to defend and protect the USA cunts-tits-tuition, after having shit ALL OVER said USA cunts-tits-tuition!
https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html
fuck off sarc.
Brandon aided and abetted the Taliban.
Brandon's disqualified.
You said this already.
It's still true.
It kinda remains to be litigated.
Why? All you need is the excuse and one partisan judge. Clearly the excuses are plentiful and there are plenty of judges Trump appointed.
By the time the dust settles maybe the Libertarian candidate could win the presidency.
You now want to skip the due process?
Current president of the US Joe Biden was personally involved in a plot to subvert the transfer of power, spy on the Republican campaign, frame people in the transition team for crimes in order to disrupt the transfer of power and to coerce transition team members into falsely testifying against Trump.
This is merely relying on the publicly released information from the Obama administration and from the impeachment proceedings against Trump.
Any one of these is certainly closer to the definition of insurrection than contesting the results of an election and asking state election officials to look into allegations of voter fraud.
It should also be pretty easy to frame taking bribes from Foreign businesses as treason if we use this standard for Ballot access.
I really don't think we should be headed down this road, but if we are going to go that way, I think simply the publicly available information against Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer and all of their senior officials is more than enough to not only disqualify them from holding any high office, but by this standard it might put them all in front of a firing squad.
Where did you get these ideas?
Do you have a link?
That would solve two problems at once!
Unfortunately, the chances of the Supreme Court upholding the 14th Amendment in this way are slim (even slimmer against Biden, which no one has bothered to litigate).
Trigger warning: avoid mentioning wood processing equipment.
*looks at username*
"Uh oh."
Like a planer? A jigsaw?
Looks like Cuntala's disqualified too!
https://twitter.com/KamalaHarris/status/1267555018128965643
The decision is interesting, esp in its biases. Not surprisingly, it held that CO had the authority to determine who could be on its ballots (despite not having the power to set term limits for senators and Representatives, which wasn’t mentioned). Also, not surprisingly, it held that the portion of the Amendment invoked was self executing, and that the President is an Officer of the US under the Constitution. All are pretty iffy.
But the biggest hole in the decision was its acceptance of the highly partisan J6 Committee report, despite its entirety having been appointed by Speaker Pelosi - even the two token Republicans. Because the lower court hearing was streamlined, the CO Supreme Court was perfectly happy for the lower court to have accepted the highly biased and political J6 report in its fact finding. Because it lacks any real indicia of reliability (esp since the House Republicans were not given the power to select members to the committee, who could have cross examined witnesses, it should have been excluded as inadmissible hearsay. The court glosses over that by pointing out that, well, there were two Republicans on the committee, ignoring that they were appointed by Pelosi, and not the Republican leadership, thus negating any reliability that the report might have had, if the Republicans had been able to see all the evidence, and cross examine the Democrats’ witnesses, and called their own.
I should add that until the Republicans took control of the House early this year, they did not realize how much of the evidence had been withheld and cherry-picked by Pelosi and staff. Of course, it surprised few that many of the witness transcripts were destroyed, before the Dems gave up control of the House. Their work, and thus, the determinations of the J6 committee cannot be checked and verified as a result. Moreover, they suppressed well over 10,000 hours of video, which mostly showed the supposed violent protesters being admitted by Capital Police into the building, and for the most part these visitors were completely nonviolent - until without any apparent provocation, or warning, they started using non lethal, then in a couple cases, lethal, means against the visitors. They also showed what appear to have been 200 or so federal officers and confidential sources in the crowd, inciting the crowd to commit violence. Some of these federal agents were likely FBI, given their tendency to dress undercover almost identically. Of course, if a full evidentiary hearing, these things could have been brought out, instead of their blind acceptance of the cherry picked evidence by Pelosi’s hand picked J6 committee.
The goal is for orange man bad to be placed into a wicker man.
Orange Man bad?!? He BAD, all right! He SOOO BAD, He be GOOD! He be GREAT! He Make America Great Again!
We KNOW He can Make America Great Again, because, as a bad-ass businessman, He Made Himself and His Family Great Again! He Pussy Grabber in Chief!
See The Atlantic article https://feedreader.com/observe/theatlantic.com/politics%252Farchive%252F2016%252F10%252Fdonald-trump-scandals%252F474726%252F%253Futm_source%253Dfeed/+view
“The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet” or this one…
https://reason.com/2019/09/02/republicans-choose-trumpism-over-property-rights-and-the-rule-of-law/
He pussy-grab His creditors in 6 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me realty schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!
All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!
Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!
Orange Man Bad-Ass Pussy-Grabber all right!
We CAN grab all the pussy, all the time, and NONE will be smart enough to EVER grab our pussies right back!
These voters simply cannot or will not recognize the central illusion of politics… You can pussy-grab all of the people some of the time, and you can pussy-grab some of the people all of the time, but you cannot pussy-grab all of the people all of the time! Sooner or later, karma catches up, and the others will pussy-grab you right back!
The Nazi's are now playing hard-ball to shut-up and prosecute their dissent. The US Hitler-II reign is banging on the door. Power-madness is a disease.
Leave Misek out of this.
Most constitutional lawyers will see this must fail. It is analogous to Jury Nullification. Should Trump run and win in Colorado this is the ultimate source of authority (we the people)over-riding the Court , which is their prerogative
"It is analogous to Jury Nullification."
No, it is the antithesis of Jury Nullification. It is closer to a directed verdict overriding the findings of a jury before they've even started deliberations.
oh, so exactly like the NY persecution of Trump
Mathematically, if enough democrats are executed, freedom eventually ensues.
Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office,
More than half of the voters of this country disagree. A four year presidency without new wars and with decent economic performance say otherwise.
Yet, a guy with a history degree from "Fairfield University" tells us that all these people are so stupid that they don't see what he sees; that readers shouldn't trust our lying eyes about the four years of Trump vs the four years of Biden; that instead, readers should trust his judgment instead.
This article says little about Trump but reveals some "manifest truths" about its author and the Colorado supreme court.
Recent polling has Biden down to 34% approval and 61% disapproval. The Boehm movement just has more lawfare left in the quiver to keep the status quo.
More than half the voters? Trump has never won the popular vote.
Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office
Now do Biden/Harris.
Uh, okay. I'd be happy to vote for a decent Republican.
4 million Colorado voters have been disenfranchised by 7 judges. The voters don't even get the chance to vote against Trump.
This is not democracy. The Democrats have lost their ever-lovin' minds.
4 justices, really. 3 of them dissented. All 7 were Democrat-appointed, it shouldn't need to be said.
If that's what the Constitution requires, so be it.
The Colorado Supreme Court is ruling as Moronic Partisan Idiots. I'm not even a Trump supporter, have never voted for him and will never vote for him. In my opinion he is not suited to be president (neither is Biden for that matter).
Shame on the members of the Colorado Supreme Court who voted to exclude Trump (or really anyone) from the ballot regardless of their views. Way to go pushing your personal views attempting to game the flawed system to gain an advantage.
Even though I don't like Trump it would be sweet revenge if Trump won Colorado in-spite of the stupidity of the Colorado Supreme Court decision. The farce is that these jurists pretend to be following the law and not simply be partisan hacks.
Trump has not even been convicted of insurrection and even if he was I would much rather have an insurrectionist on the ballot working to get votes than not on the ballot and having battles in the streets.
For example in Ireland, the approach of Sinn Féin is preferred over the actions of the IRA.
I do believe that the Anti-Trump crowd is much more dangerous for the rights of individuals than Trumps MAGA crowd. It seems that much of what the left clamors about that Trump will do is actually what the left is already doing.
Objectively analyzing the actions of both the Trump and Biden presidencies and removing any partisan biases, Biden is much more authoritarian than Trump ever was.
Trump is loud and brash, but was more of a mediocre president. Trump is a corporate welfare queen, profiting and utilizing the loopholes that politicians like Biden inserted into law so they could profit from them.
Trump cavorted around with leftists until he had the audacity to challenge the heir apparent Hillary Clinton. Even after he decided to run the leftist corporate media, propped him up and didn't attack him until he won the primary.
He however did the unexpected and won the election over the abysmal excuse of a candidate Hilary Clinton. Ever since the egregious election results, the leftist corporate media has gone for far beyond the pale that it is disgusting, unethical and immoral.
Biden is uniting the country by demonizing, intimidating, and attempting to prosecute half of the country. Biden is a warmongering sleaze bag who has spent a lifetime profiting from his influence.
The leftist corporate media and flipped their tactics and are partisan sycophants propping up Biden, deflecting, and burying stories that expose the truth about Biden.
Like I said, neither Biden nor Trump should be president. Removing either of them from the Ballot is moronic. The Colorado Supreme Court is a disgrace and should be expelled and repudiated by the citizens of Colorado.
It's the Constitution...
Love it or leave it.
On the topic of recusal for the three Supreme Court Justices, what exactly is the conflict of interest? Trump nominated these justices, but they owe him no favors right? Unless there was some backdoor "I'll nominate you, but I get one free ruling in my favor down the road" I don't see it. Is there something I'm missing here?
I'm not making the argument, so I can't say how they'll make it. It will likely be some "appearance of undue influence" or impropriety that comes from people who owe their position to him ruling on a case that is about the respect for his rights.
The real reason the argument will be made is that there's 3 justices you can expect to vote to uphold this, and 6 who are likely to laugh at it. But there will be some vain hope that they can disqualify three justices from ruling on this, putting Roberts as a swing vote.
Those Trump judges have not danced to Trump's tune before (much to his chagrin), when it would have made more sense for them to do so, so I would not really expect them to do so now.
Look how many have turned on him: Trump doesn't inspire loyalty; he inspires betrayal.
"Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office,..."
Yes, Eric Boehm is manifestly unfit to write an unbiased news article.
Or draw breath.
When you finally get off your ass and actually do something, will people say, "I'm shocked; he seemed like such a calm person"?
Probably not!
On a completely unrelated note, didn't many Democrats- including Biden, Harris, and many currently in Congress- offer support for people who advocated for the violent overthrow of the system back in 2020?
Man, it would sure be a shame if someone in Georgia were to sue in state Court to block Biden and Harris from the ballot there.
Just an observation. Completely unrelated to the Trump matter.
Not just Georgia but every State that had BLM riots or candidates that received ACT BLUE funding.
So now you want the US Supreme Court to uphold the ruling?
You never heard of an "if/then"?
IF the Republicans are required to fight with one hand tied behind their backs.....then Democrats should be as well.
IF the Republicans' dominant hand is freed (by SCOTUS)....then it's a fair fight again.
Oh, I do get it: Your moral compass is entirely dependent on what your worst enemies do.
So it's not that you're against corruption, per se; corruption is fine, just as long as the evil genius Democrats did it first.
A summary of the above posts
"The decision is right/wrong because Trump shouldn't/should be allowed to stand because Trump is the new Hitler/Messiah, though I've not read the actual decision and I am not a lawyer"
Ilya Somin's article is good.
https://reason.com/volokh/2023/12/19/colorado-supreme-court-rules-trump-is-ineligible-for-the-presidency-under-section-3-of-the-14th-amendment/
A summary of SRG2 and other left-authoritarian fucktards:
"People should just do what we say."
Fuck off. I'm not a leftist. And nor am I an authoritarian, unlike all you Trumpsuckers.
Really? Don’t you have a reference for George Soros?
"Fuck off. I’m not a leftist. And nor am I an authoritarian, unlike all you Trumpsuckers."
TDS-addled pile of shit doth protest too much.
.
Even though he was in that office?
You'd think if he was manifestly unfit, we'd've noticed then.
The events in question occurred at the very end of his presidency, so there was not enough time to litigate this issue while he was still in office.
Will the U.S. Supreme Court even take up Trump's appeal? If they do, they would need to act quickly to render a decision before the primary. But I don't think they want to decide this. They just might deny cert and call it a "political" question. What then? Is he barred from the general election too? General election votes are, strictly speaking, for electors and not actually for the candidate. And is the Presidential oath to "preserve, protect, and defend" the Constitution an oath to "support" it? At one point, Trump claimed it wasn't. For the future of our country to turn on such questions is scary.
I fight to preserve, protect, and defend Hamas, but don’t you dare say I “support” Hamas!
The Constitution only mentions "holding" office; appearing on the ballot is a matter of state law.
Unsealing Bush's DUI and Ryan's Divorce Records were as much about election interference as this.
Nixon -> Clinton -> Trump -> ???
But slippery slopes that the Right see aren't actually a risk, eh Reason?
Everything I would have said about this has been said above better than I could have said it; and some things that are mostly true that I would not have said. I am not a supporter of Trump and do not want him (or Biden) to be President of the United States. I think his supporters are backing him for all the wrong reasons. But the only thing the Colorado Supreme Court has accomplished with this decision is to deepen and widen the partisan culture wars in America. It is so blatantly partisan that it cannot help but inflame passions and strife in these United States and discredit what little faith and credence The People might have had left in the government and, particularly, the justice system.
I disagree that there is no "non-partisan" argument that the 14th Amendment bars people like Trump from holding federal office.
But it probably needs to come to a head at some point. Why not now?
Trump has not been convicted of insurrection. Therefore the 14th amendment can not be used to disqualify him. Colorado havs violated the Constitution by predetermining guilt based on accusations, not verification via conviction.
Says someone who doesn't understand constitutional law. A later amendment cannot be in violation of an earlier one.
And read Ilya Somin's piece, FFS.
That would be the case if the 14th Amendment actually voided due process, in stead of protecting due process from state infringement.
It doesn’t require conviction, but it does require an actual insurrection, which he clearly didn’t participate in.
The court agreed that there was "clear and convincing evidence" that he did.
Some disagreement about the meaning of the word "clear"?
And yet, there has been no charging and no convictions of a single insurrectionist. Even the people they HAVE convicted weren’t charged with such.
So no, they contorted themselves into a logic pretzel to try and justify their already decided conclusion.
"Insurrection" in the federal criminal statute is not the same thing as "insurrection" in the Constitution. The criminal penalties (10 years in prison, fine, loss of slaves) are much more severe than those imposed by the 14th Amendment, so it's not exactly surprising that the due process required is also different.
Criminal conviction was apparently not considered necessary for the disability from holding office to apply. Indeed, under the Amnesty Act passed by Congress in 1872 (which removed the disability for most Confederate officers four years after the 14th Amendment was ratified), the vast majority of those officers had never been convicted of insurrection.
The same could happen to Trump.
"...And read Ilya Somin’s piece, FFS..."
An opinion piece by a TDS-addled shit-pile cited by another TDS-addled shit-pile.
Fuck off and die.
I contend that the 14th Amendment does not require Trump to have been convicted of insurrection or even some adjacent crime.
For starters, it is unthinkable that the authors of 14A intended to imply even indirectly that this amendment was conditioning or restricting the states' constitutional power to control ballot access. They would have considered that to be a violation of our federal form of government because 1) States are responsible for voting; 2) States elect the President (via the EC); and 3) States were given the power to correct bad elections by throwing out the elected Electors and replacing them with new ones. The Federal Government had no role in deciding how States should manage elections.
Second, Colorado's decision enhances the voting power of individuals. Individuals widely feel locked out of the electoral process this year, as two unpopular front runners, presidents, have clogged the drain. Allowing States to exercise their right to manage their elections achieves the ostensible purpose of the Electoral College -- to detect and prevent electoral mistakes from undermining democracy. In Colorado, the voters are now free to defy national party domination and vote for other candidates.
It is worth mentioning that if other States also exercise their discretion to block ballot access, this alone might force the Democrats to abandon their tyrannical restrictions on voting in the interest of nominating a stronger candidate to confront a now-stronger GOP candidate.
The claim that democracy would be throttled by the States via this court decision is the total opposite of what has actually happened.
It's not even remotely about "democracy" which is a philosophical concept, not a legal or constitutional one. The Fourteenth Amendment unquestionably extended the Bill of Rights to the individual states (for better or worse) including denial of due process. Ballot "access" unquestionably is covered under more than one of those rights retained by The People, including the people of Colorado. States are not allowed to deny voting rights arbitrarily, or based on any of the protected categories, so the legal justification for the Colorado Supreme Court's decision makes a critical difference in whether it was consistent with the Constitution of the United States of America.
Also this: "should any state, after the passage of this Act, deny or abridge the right of any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, to vote at any election named in the amendments to the Constitution, article fourteen, section two, except for participation in rebellion or other crime, the number of Representatives apportioned in this act to such State shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall have to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State." - https://uscode.house.gov/statviewer.htm?volume=17&page=29#
Second, Colorado’s decision enhances the voting power of individuals. Individuals widely feel locked out of the electoral process this year, as two unpopular front runners, presidents, have clogged the drain.
Nobody goes to that restaurant anymore, it's too crowded.
Seems these judges are bent on provoking an actual insurrection.
Couldn't the republican party simply choose to skip the primary and just have a caucus where they decide that Trump is the candidate?
Well, I'm sure some of the GOP would be happy enough preventing any other candidates being on the ballot - it happened before - and this isn't too remote from that.
Look around you. Conservatives do not care what you say on campus, or on-line, or what candidate you put up. They are not the ones who came up with cancel culture. A little self realization will go a long way if you try.
A lot of states have a law that the primaries for R and D must be public and taxpayer funded. But the party itself is under no obligation to adhere to the primaries. They can pick whoever they want at their convention.
It's entirely up to the delegates. And the delegates are all going to be raving Trumpistas. The old sensible GOP doesn't exist anymore.
But if Colorado is upheld he still wouldn’t be on the general election ballot there.
"...And the delegates are all going to be raving Trumpistas. The old sensible GOP doesn’t exist anymore."
Yes, steaming piles of TDS addled shit like you no longer amount to much.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
With Romney's niece in charge? Not a prayer in hell that Uniparty cunt would do such a thing.
So it's pretty clear that Trump has a strong shot at winning the election. He's definitely going to win the primary. So rather than 2016 pretending he can't win, the Democrats still have their heads stuck in the sand. Biden can't win against Trump. He's old and he's sleepy and he's confused. But the Democrat Party doesn't seem to care.
Trump says he will only be a Dictator for one day. But one day is too many days.
How the hell did the presidency get so much power that the president can declare themselves a dictator? The problem is not Trump, the problem is not Biden, the problem is that both sides (BOAF SIDES) have given the president way too much fucking power. And Trump has promised he will NOT roll back that power.
We are fucked. You got your Strong Man. He's either going to be a Sleepy and Senile Strong Man, or a Raving Lunatic Strong Man. We are so royally fucked. Can we go back to a hereditary monarchy? Please?
"How the hell did the presidency get so much power"
Inch by inch, little by little, the Congress abandoned its share of the power and the Supreme Court upheld or refused to strike down the Constitutional principles encoded by the Founders. The People were too busy living their lives and too unconcerned about their loss of rights to assert their final authority. It's very easy for politicians to gain power; not so easy for the people to take it back.
Trump was referring to executive orders on day one. Jokingly. It is ironic that a president would have to issue an executive order to faithfully execute the law.
Jokes are imperceptible to the left, though.
As if Trump has ever won an election - meaning voters, not electoral college reps. Never has and never will. In fact the dems have won the vote 7 out of the last 8 presidential elections and you all pretend you represent "Americans".
LOL. This sock again. How's the gun grab going?
Which staffer is this?
The return of steaming pile of shit Joe Asshole.
Fuck off and die; make your family proud and the world a better place.
Hey faggot, that IS how you win a presidential election. Always has been. But a stupid cunt like you can’t possibly understand that.
Now go kill yourself. You know its the right thing to do.
Not the popular count again. My goodness, how stupid can people continue to be about this. California and New York give the popular vote to Democrats every election. You want California and New York to choose the President every time and to hell with the rest of the country? Of course you would. So, of the 48 states remaining the popular vote went to Trump.
"...We are fucked. You got your Strong Man..."
You are fucked and have been for years. /Stuff your TDS up your ass to keep you head company.
Trump was referring to Biden being a dictator. One his first day, Biden spent it writing Executive Decisions nulifying as much of the work that Trump did as he could. Like the wall. So, try some nuance here. Trump is saying he would do the same.
"Saving Democracy" is the last thing the left would consider.
Unhinged childlike fantasy. The democrats have the reasoning skills of a toddler.
Since the evidence is 100 times more compelling that Jane Fonda gave aid and comfort to the enemies of America, at least we can rejoice that she is now formerly and officially, disqualified from holding any office in the US. Government and further rejoice knowing that any Communist who submits the required number of signatures, must and can be placed on the ballot under the heading of 'Communist'.
Three cheers for the Constitution!
OK, here we go:
"We are likewise mindful of our solemn duty to apply the law, without fear or favor, and without being swayed by public reaction to the decisions that the law mandates we reach." IOW Oh Gosh, we just have to apply the law here - SO sorry about that."
"Yes, the former president is manifestly unfit for office," Oh really? He is a natural born US citizen he is over 35, and he has not been convicted of any felony. He fits the Constitutional qualifications. So really, FU.
"this all seems a bit premature given that Trump has not yet been convicted of any crimes ...." PREMATURE?? How about totally and utterly inappropriate and unlawful?
"let's assume that Trump's harshest critics are correct when they say he represents a unique threat to the future of American democracy." Really? Worse than Joe Biden? Hillary Clinton?
FDR? Woodrow Wilson? Oh please.>
"the idea that of booting someone off the ballot to save democracy seems like a weird argument at best" .... Weird argument? WIERD?? How about utterly unConstitutional??
Who IS this idiot?
Pyrrhic victory.
My guess, Trump will gain another 2-8 point poll advantage. The usual suspects of academia Bolsheviks and TDS stooges will celebrate the moment, but no one in their mind extends any lasting gravitas to this party-line decision.
Just reflecting: It was really stupid when Nixon opted for the Saturday Night Massacre. It was really moronic when Hillary opted to not campaign- at all-in the swing states. But this decision is galactic level retard shit that might go down as the defining moment when America said enough.
Hillary opted to not campaign- at all-in the swing states
Her sheer incompetence in that election still boggles me. She didn't listen to bubba, who had won two presidential elections, for what reason exactly?
-jcr
Because she’s arrogant and saw 2016 as a coronation, not an election.
-right mind/edit
How could the USSC concur with the COSC without disqualifying Trump from running everywhere else as well? How could they allow an insurrection to run in any other state?
...and this would be a problem, because...?
The 14 Amendment is silent about his running for office. It clearly says that he may not SERVE unless 2/3rd of Congress agrees that he can serve. This legal problem is so simple that they'd flunk a first year laws school for not knowing that the 14Amendment is totally silent about whether Trump may run for the office
"It clearly says that he may not SERVE unless 2/3rd of Congress agrees that he can serve."
It not only doesn't "clearly" say that, it doesn't say that at all.
It takes 2/3 of Congress to lift the disability, but that's only once you're under it to begin with.
What I don’t get is why S5 of the 14a doesn’t end this charade. Congress, not the states, is expressly granted enforcement authority for ( the 14a) relevant election provisions.
Am I supposed to accept that the 14a congress would’ve extended to, say, any southern state the ultimate decision if who could run for the presidency?
“ Ok, boys, let’s roll with Jefferson Davis!”
Read the decision, maybe?
I did. That’s what prompts my question. The majority serves up a chimera when concluding that S3 is self-executing and thus regulated by its election code.
The dissent not only eviscerates their, well, political rationale but exposes it as nonsense, the focus of which SCOTUS will seize on when it thoroughly overturns this opinion.
Perhaps we shall see.
The lefturds in California are looking into pulling the same stunt. Not sure whether they'll wait for the supreme court to bitch-slap the colorado commies or not.
-jcr
If so, this will quickly devolve into the civil war that the democrats are making inevitable. If so, it represents an excellent opportunity to rid ourselves of them.
So based on this ruling you are no longer innocent until proven guilty? They are saying he is guilty without ever actually being charged with this crime. This has kicked open a door that the Dems don't want to open. You aren't the good guys if you need to try a legal trick to beat someone. Win and honest election, but clearly they don't think they can.
I’m fine with rounding up and executing democrats en masse. If that’s what they want then they should be obliged. At least the Marxist true believers. The average democrat is most.y harmless son its own without direction. As they have an intellect not unlike a small dog, but even more hive oriented.
No, based on the US Constitution (if upheld by the Supreme Court).
If Trump can't appear on the ballot, why not just have a Fuck Joe Biden listing. The voters will know who it's for.
No one expects removing criminals will fix all our problems. It will be a refreshing return to actually following the law while it is being applied to a rich American. Hopefully, it is a trend.
He has not yet been convicted of a crime.. He may be, but whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty?
Stuff your TDS up your ass, and then fuck off and die, shit-pile.
So Trump is guilty without a trial or a conviction. How does anyone think that makes any sense? I can't stand Trump and never voted for him, but judges can't just declare someone guilty with no trial. That has to be unconstitutional and just makes them sound stupid.
Democrats are living contradictions. They don’t use logic, or follow rules.
Unprecedented times ladies and gents. One side is astonished by something the other side does and vice versa. Toe to toe it will be battled out. What we're looking at ultimately is the haves vs the have nots/never will haves. Interesting part of this is that the GQP has mindfucked the majority of its followers into believing that they are in this together with them.
*GQP and the Dem leadership.
No, what's interesting remains the TDS shits who refuse to accept that Trump was the POTUS delivering libertarian solutions and appointments better than any POTUS in the last century.
Do you consider yourself as having been mindfucked or do you think you're special and, thus, immune?
I don't know why everyone's in a tailspin. What do you suppose will happen when some red states remove Biden from the ballot because of his unfitness to serve?
Here is Glenn Greenwald's take.
https://rumble.com/v42dziu-sustem-update-show-202.html
Anyone trying to "save democracy" at this point should take a good, hard look at whether "democracy" was ever a good idea, and whether it has ever worked well.
It wasn't, and it hasn't.
"A conservative is someone who helps disguise the true nature of a democratic state. The conservative is ineffective by definition, because his goal is to make democracy work properly. The fact that it does not work properly, has never worked properly, and will never work properly, sails straight over his head. He therefore labors cheerfully as a tool for his enemies." --Mencius Moldbug, "A Gentle Introduction to Unqualified Reservations," chapter 8.
The USA is a Constitutional Union of Republican States *NOT* a democracy.
"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government"
The BS about the USA being a [Na]tional So[zi]alist democracy is exactly what is tearing it to pieces.
It's not "booting someone off the ballot", silly - it's not letting them on the ballot because they don't meet the qualifications.