2024 GOP Candidates Are Competing To Restrict Immigration

Formerly fringe immigration policies have gone mainstream in the Republican Party.

Immigration and border policy proposals that were once largely limited to the Republican Party's fringe are now entering the GOP mainstream, as evidenced by the hard-line positions of leading 2024 Republican presidential primary candidates.

GOP hopefuls largely agree that the U.S. should heavily militarize its border with Mexico to keep out drugs and undocumented immigrants. In the first debate of the campaign season, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis said he would send U.S. special forces into Mexico to target cartels "on day one," explaining that "we reserve the right to operate" there. Former Vice President Mike Pence proposed that the U.S. partner with the Mexican military to "hunt down and destroy the cartels." Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie said that "you have to" deport the roughly 11 million undocumented people who already live in the United States.

That rhetoric continued apace in the second Republican debate. Sen. Tim Scott (R–S.C.) claimed that "every county in America is now a border county," calling on President Joe Biden to finish building the border wall. Entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, who has previously said that he would deport the U.S.-born children of undocumented immigrants, reiterated his likely unconstitutional wish to "end birthright citizenship" for those kids.

What about the virtues of immigration and border solutions that recognize the fluidity of labor supply and demand? Solving unauthorized immigration requires providing legal pathways, but Republican presidential candidates so far have not been keen on making that argument.

The candidates are parroting rhetoric and policies popularized during Donald Trump's administration, occasionally to the former president's irritation: In June, his campaign accused DeSantis of "copying and pasting" the Trump immigration and border platform "because he doesn't have an original idea of his own." Ramaswamy and other candidates now say they want to reevaluate the 14th Amendment's reach, but Trump took up that issue on the 2016 campaign trail and said in 2019 that he was "seriously" considering ending birthright citizenship. It's fashionable now for candidates to support waging war against Mexican drug cartels or designating them as terrorist organizations, but Trump floated those ideas years ago.

Trump, who leads the GOP pack, has unveiled a new immigration plan of his own. According to a report by Axios' Stef W. Kight, the platform includes increased "ideological screening" to root out migrants with "Marxist" affiliations, an expansion of the former president's "Muslim ban," carrying out quick deportations under "an obscure section of the 1798 Alien and Sedition Acts," and military blockades throughout U.S. and Latin American waters to stop boats carrying drugs.

These draconian policies could also enter the mainstream Republican platform, but there's little reason to believe they will fix the broken U.S. immigration system.

Comments

[Chumby]

The broken immigration system stems from the existing, unsustainable welfare state and is exacerbated by the failure to vet folks entering the country.

[JesseAz]

100% cost free with no downsides!

[TwilaMiller]

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[chemjeff radical individualist]

Just like border security. 100% cost free with no downsides!

[Don't look at me!]

Border security is not a cost, it’s an investment.

[JesseAz]

Jeff’s juvenile assertion would say society should have no prisons as well. And since welfare costs money there should be none of that. Jeff remains an idiot with sophomoric arguments. He is a child.

[Vernon Depner]

I've wondered sometimes if he is literally a child—a nerdy middle schooler with unsupervised internet access.

[Don't look at me!]

No widespread crime.

[charliehall]

No it doesn't. Immigrants are ineligible for most forms of public assistance. And you know that.

[Pear Satirical]

Other than the 40 million a month Chicago is spending on illegals.
https://www.cbsnews.com/chicago/news/mayor-brandon-johnson-first-budget-approved-city-council/

Or the 35 million New York is spending to house them in hotels.
https://nypost.com/2023/09/04/nyc-spends-35-million-for-2-migrant-hotels/

But other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

[Chumby]

Charlie is a parody account where the actual person knows there is a substantial cost to Biden allowing illegals into the US to raid the public coffers.

[Pear Satirical]

I can't tell anymore.

[Chumby]

To be fair, Charlie may not know if he’s a parody but the posts are so bad perhaps he arrives there serendipitously.

[Harvey Mosley]

Right. In California all they qualify for is free health care, welfare, food stamps, WIC, subsidized housing, free legal assistance to try to avoid deportation if they happen to be one of the few in that situation, tax stimulus, and in state college tuition prices.

[damikesc]

10M illegals in 3 years kinda makes one reconsider old policies.

[JesseAz]

It is amusing to me that as soon as other states began to experience the costs, the issue became more in agreement. Having lived in a state bearing the costs for decades it is nice to see a recognition that there are costs. Even Netherlands is finally admitting to the economic and societal costs.

Words and bumper stickers are great politics as long as someone else is the one taking all the downside. Reality has hit many states hard.

[CE]

Even liberal Dutch voters picked another right-wing anti-immigration populist.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/anti-islam-firebrand-geert-wilders-wins-election-netherlands-dutch-donald-trump

I guess Reason won't celebrate this one like they do the one in Argentina.

[Roberta]

Not anti-immigration, just anti-Muslim, because of the troubles they've caused there and in nearby countries in recent years. It would be nice if there were some other criterion by which to weed out trouble-makers, but the correlation is so amazingly close as to make it the only practical way right now.

[Vernon Depner]

Islam is simply incompatible with classical liberal values and Western social structure. "Muslims" who have been able to integrate into North American society are Muslim merely in the sense that Unitarians are "Christians".

[Chumby]

Perhaps Dutch voters are fans of his work in Blazing Saddles.

[SQRLSY One]

"Team R" absolutely LOVES the unwanted Sacred Fartilized Egg Smells... And vehemently HATES the illegal sub-humans!

When many-many-MANY "Team R" find themselves in a collapsing economy, starving, with bedsores and bitten by ants, in decrepit old age homes... For lack of labor... Then some "Team R" political Big-Wig will FINALLY discover a Government-Almighty SOLUTION! Issue Government-Almighty "Magic Papers" and turn the illegal sub-humans into legal humans, turning them from dross into gold! Better yet, turn them into HONORARY Sacred Fartilized Egg Smells, and THEN they will be LOVED and adored!!!

[Mockamodo]

A nation without borders is just a patch of land between real nations.

[SQRLSY One]

A nation without borders is like a fish without a motor-bike!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Perhaps, on this day of Thanksgiving, we can focus on the topics pertinent to immigration that most of us can agree on.

True or False: Most immigrants who come here simply want to live in peace with their neighbors and want better lives for themselves and their families.

[Don't look at me!]

Does “better lives” include free stuff?

[SQRLSY One]

Thanks to migration, humans live and work on every continent of the globe. It’s part of being human, probably something to do with the decision many moons ago to come down from the trees and go bipedal.
(Bipedal means walking on two legs, Nothing to do with bisexuality or pedophilia.)

Sending them all BACK up the trees (where they came from) is NOT a realistic option!

[TJJ2000]

You'll be sure to let everyone know when "walking on two legs" (ending the welfare state) actually happens won't you?

[SQRLSY One]

Do FACTS even matter any more?

See this:
https://www.fool.com/retirement/2020/05/23/social-security-has-an-immigration-problem.aspx Need more legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, what have you; bring them ON!

https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/
Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits

[sarcasmic]

Do FACTS even matter any more?

No. Facts are totally subjective. If you like the politics of the source then the facts are true, and if you don't then they're all lies.

[JesseAz]

Says the guy wrong on every topic the last 5 years while calling people conspiracy theorists and declaring facts changed. Fucking hilarious.

[TJJ2000]

And yet somehow the 'immigrant' votes at a 75% margin for Social Security (hut hum: [Na]tional So[zi]alism / gov-guns makes sh*t for them). Your cherry-picked BS propaganda you call 'facts' defies basic logic while humorously propping up ideals such as slavery and injustice.

...because that's where the leftard heart lies.

[SQRLSY One]

https://reason.com/2020/03/26/u-s-population-growth-rate-lowest-in-a-century-says-new-report/
No matter how responsible we are, and how hardworking we are, and how much money we save, our money will NOT feed us, change our bedsheets, or wipe our butts, while we linger on death’s doorstep, in our old age!!! Only PEOPLE can do these things! People = humans, not saved money!)

Meanwhile, the illegal sub-humans will pay and pay and pay taxes into our system, and never benefit, till we grind them into the dirt, and very-very few are left to work their asses off to support us in our old age!
Here is the latest version of that:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/26/perspectives/stimulus-checks-undocumented-taxpayers/index.html
These taxpayers won’t get stimulus checks. That’s unjust
By Tim Breene for CNN Business Perspectives

[TJJ2000]

And guess what? They weren't invited here to do that you moron. You make up so much BS it takes all the sensible motivation for immigrating out of the equation. Best they all just stay where they are.

[TJJ2000]

FALSE Why do you think most immigrants CANNOT GET THAT peace with their neighbors and want better lives for themselves and their families from whence they came?

Is where they came from a “democracy”??? If so; then the h*llhole they made is entirely a reflection of what they really want not what they say they want as an EXCUSE to invade and conquer another nation.

[JesseAz]

Jeff is the living embodiment of the old racist trope regarding the white man's burden.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Jesse is a dishonest shithead who cannot think critically on an issue and repeats debunked studies that support his point of view.

Such as the Lott study which claimed to show that there were lots of illegal immigrants in Arizona jails. Turns out, the study was wrong.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So, actually, TRUE, since you acknowledge that they want to live peacefully with their neighbors and want a better life for themselves and their families.

Is where they came from a “democracy”??? If so; then the h*llhole they made is entirely a reflection of what they really want

So by that argument, Biden's America is "entirely a reflection" of what YOU "really want". Is that right?

How come it is that the Guatemalan government is the pure embodiment of the will and spirit of the entirety of the Guatemalan people, without exception; but the American government represents just a small portion of what the American people want, and in reality the American people are a diverse bunch of individuals who aren't all represented by its government? Hmm?

[TJJ2000]

Thus the very immigration policy proposed....

Trumps plan … the platform includes increased “ideological screening” to root out migrants with “Marxist” affiliations

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So, you do acknowledge that there can be migrants from, say, Guatemala who don't agree with the Guatemalan government and who want to come here for a better life for themselves?

[sarcasmic]

Heresy!

[TJJ2000]

Entirely. The 'hate' narrative you "open borders" crowd paints is entirely self-served up deception and manipulation.

While you continue to ignore that immigration policy is failing to do exactly what Trump proposed with a welfare system 80% exploited by immigrants and a vote record of 75% for the welfare party. If immigration policy was set correctly it would be 0% or close to it for a welfare state and 0% welfare beneficiaries. Exactly what everyone has been telling you.

[Nobartium]

Because here the US is made up of people that hold a tradition of individualism.

It literally doesn't exist anywhere else.

[Vernon Depner]

And is dying out here. Canada has already fallen.

[sarcasmic]

According to the narrative all immigrants are devout leftists who are itching to vote for Democrats and turn this country into what they escaped. Because of this they are not human beings. Meanwhile they draw on social programs without contributing a dime while stealing jobs from good Americans. That last bit of doublethink is engraved into the minds of Trumpian conservatives.

[Chumby]

Regardless of their ideology and ability to not be a burden on the state, I think we can all agree that importing folks that can make a proper Cuban is a good thing.

[JesseAz]

Please cite this narrative and prove it isnt just your strawman. It is more evidence of your use if leftist narratives than anything. Lol. Just like your lies about the Laffer curve being a line per your strawmen.

[CE]

Most of the illegal immigrants I know work harder than anyone. They do hard manual labor for low wages, and dream of starting their own small businesses. The ones without initiative never made the trek.

Of course some are dependent on social welfare when they arrive, but no more so than many of the indigent who already live here. And some turn to crime and should be deported. Unfortunately California seems disinterested in maintaining order.

[sarcasmic]

That goes against the narrative so it’s wrong, and any facts you provide to back you up are lies because the sources aren’t Republicans.

[JesseAz]

Because the facts don't exist as I cote just below dummy.

Want the costs as well?

[JesseAz]

Welfare, direct cash payments, is not the only form of welfare.

In 2018, 49 percent of households headed by all immigrants — naturalized citizens, legal residents, and illegal immigrants — used at least one major welfare program, compared to 32 percent of households headed by the native-born.

https://cis.org/Camarota/Welfare-Use-Immigrants-and-NativeBorn-Households

Your perception is false.

[sarcasmic]

Your beloved CIS is as unbiased as the Southern Poverty Law Center. They have a stated mission of reducing immigration, so of course all of their information will back up that mission, and anything that doesn’t will be ignored or smeared.

[JesseAz]

I see you dont have any actual facts to counter it so you rely on your usual pathetic ad hominem attack. Again. None of your ideas are backed by evidence. Bald assertions and ignorance are the formation of your arguments.

What fact was wrong?

[sarcasmic]

I assume you agree that climate scientists are biased towards promoting their beliefs and they will hide or smear anything that doesn’t further their agenda.
The hardcore conservative sources you point to are no different.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Climate scientists like money as much as anyone else.

They’re just hacks.

[JesseAz]

Now a non sequitur. Post your counter facts dumbass.

For climate science we constantly point out the errors in their MODEL data, not their recorded data retard.

Although they have been caught manipulating historical records as well.

You remain a dumbass.

[TJJ2000]

A narrative backed by research https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/07/22/are-unauthorized-immigrants-overwhelmingly-democrats/

As well as welfare records https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households

And if you actually pull raw data from particular welfare programs it’s even worse (media is painting over the actual numbers) which in many cases like healthcare welfare for pregnancies actually run 80% immigrant recipients.

What you just stated is FAR MORE true than it is false. And your cry-baby "non-human" unless invasion is a right non-sense is the biggest LIE/NARRATIVE in the whole thing.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

A narrative backed by research https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2013/07/22/are-unauthorized-immigrants-overwhelmingly-democrats/

Wait, you're kidding. You're telling me that when one party constantly demonizes them, scapegoats them, blames them for the problems of the nation, and threatens to deport them, that they don't flock to that party and want to vote for them? Are you SERIOUS?

[TJJ2000]

Yet again … your cry-baby attempt at calling every Republican who wants a selective / secure nation from a Marxist take-over is actually hating on all immigrants.

Your mind is loaded with self-entitled and self-serving BS propaganda and you’ll keep repeating and resorting back to that lie to indoctrinate others into believing not allowing a Marxist invasion is somehow equal to hating all immigrants.

Course that's quite obvious since the entire pitched proposal is to ... the platform includes increased "ideological screening" to root out migrants with "Marxist" affiliations.

Are you against the USA keeping the [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] out?

[Nobartium]

False. People take the easy way whenever it's available.

In this sense, most migrants who come here are too lazy to fix the lands they came from.

[TJJ2000]

+100000 ... the conquer and consume mentality.

[Vernon Depner]

want better lives for themselves and their families.

At our expense.

[CE]

Conservative Americans should be thankful that most of the people trying to immigrate here are Christian, pro-life, pro-family and not woke. They are natural Republicans, if that party wouldn't cede them to the Democrats by default.

Europe, on the other hand, has been welcoming millions from another culture who have long dreamed of overthrowing the established Judeo-Christian order there (even as it overthrows itself through wokeness.)

[Vernon Depner]

That is rapidly changing.

[Nardz]

Such a boomer talking point.
They're tribal, and their tribe votes for bigger government and less freedom.
How you lolberts can see the last 60 years of American history and still repeat the idiotic "nAtUrAl RePuBLiCaNs" talking point is beyond me.

[Fats of Fury]

That describes most other immigrants that came here and they all voted democrat too.

[CountmontyC]

It doesn't matter. The purpose of a nation is to benefit it's citizens. Unless the immigration is a net benefit to the citizens of the USA they should not be let in. If allowing them to immigrate is a net benefit we can support letting them in. If you want to let these immigrants in show how they will be a net benefit.

[Its_Not_Inevitable]

True! But then I'm not anti-immigrant like a lot of folks here. But the real question for the Typical Collectivist is do you have a bears in trunks analogy for immigration? Say a bear sneaks into the country in a car trunk and gets out once in. Is that legal? Discuss.

[Social Justice is neither]

Fuck off you open border zealot. I don't see you volunteering your money or wealth to this endeavor you're so eager to foist on others. Maybe if you leftists had bothered to look at both the costs and benefits of immigration rather than the childish "free shit and movement for everybody (no straight white people allowed)" then this might not have happened, but you all lied about this last time around and give zero indication of honesty now.

[Chumby]

Perhaps the commentariat can encourage the pro free stuff Reason editors to each personally adopt and house a dreamer.

[SQRLSY One]

Since they don't often do that, then the entire USA is just EXACTLY like your living room?

How many Catholic priests, Native American Shamans, Methodist Ministers, Scientology “Leaders”, Jewish Rabbis, and Islamic and Hindu “Holy Men” are you inviting into YOUR house to stay with YOU? None, right? Since they are living “at large” in the territory of the Collective Hive of the USA, then with the Collective Hive of the USA being just EXACTLY like YOUR living room, the public (voters, through the Powers of Government Almighty) should decide which religious leaders are allowed to practice which religions in USA territory!!! Because the Collective Hive owns it ALL!!! …

Straight-through and honest analogy here… If this does NOT clarify to you, the collectivism inherent in your analogy, then you have a fossilized mind!

You pay taxes on your property, and maintain it. You have the right to says who uses it, no doubts in my mind about THAT! You do NOT own (or pay taxes on) ALL territories in the USA, power-grabbing PIG!

[TJJ2000]

LMAO.... "You do NOT own (or pay taxes on) ALL territories in the USA"

Oh? Do tell.... Where do those taxes go then? Why it was just this week Reason was complaining about $800B going to defend (DoD) ALL territories of the USA.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

This.

Eat an entire giant economy sized bag of dicks, Fiona. Nobody is buying it, and you're dragging the remnants of Reason's reputation through the sewer.

[TJJ2000]

Trumps plan ... the platform includes increased "ideological screening" to root out migrants with "Marxist" affiliations

Where the concern should be. Focusing and mingling "drug wars" with immigration is going to be a losing platform as the real concern is with treasonous invaders looking for others greener pastures to chew up.

[JesseAz]

Ironically open borders in order to steal resources is a part of the marxist platform.

https://www.marxist.com/why-marxists-oppose-immigration-controls.htm

Which is why Jeff is so gung ho on open borders into a welfare state. Part of his ideals.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So dishonest.

Perhaps I should point out all the right-wingers who support policies that Jesse also supports, but for horrible reasons.

For example, people like Nardz, who opposes gun control, not for self-defense, but because he wants to murder progressives.

So I guess by Jesse's logic, Jesse opposes gun control because he too wants to murder progressives. See how that works?

So so dishonest.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

Speak for yourself, you dishonest fuck.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

"Why Marxists oppose immigration controls"

"Because of course, being complete fucking morons, they support a lot of truly retarded shit."

Presumably Chemleft is here to provide us with a demonstration of what being an utterly retarded Marxist moron looks like.

[JesseAz]

The way to tell the difference between libertarians and marxism on the issue is to realize what they advocate first, stopping welfare or open borders. As Hoppe demonstrated in his essay.

Open borders into a welfare state funded system just leads to increased theft. This is what jeff supports. He wants resources distributed at the end of a gun by the state. Even when given the tens of billions spent yearly on refugees and illegal citizens, he loudly advocates to import more takers from the welfare system. That's how you realize he is a marxist who tries to hide his views under ideal libertarian views, and not realistic libertarian views.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Draconian immigration controls leads to higher taxes – meaning, increased theft – AND loss of liberty for migrants AND citizens alike. This is what Jesse supports. He wants citizens forced to show their papers at the end of a gun by the state. He is a fascist who demands ideological purity among the Volk and he is a demagogue who scapegoats foreigners for his personal failings.

[TJJ2000]

It's called National *Defense*. An inherent price to even having a nation (USA) at all.

While the Aggressors are the fascists trying to ... (per it's very definition) exalt race ?equality mandates? above the individual, centralized "feds" autocratic government, severe economic and social regimentation (syn: [Na]tional So[zi]alism), and forcible suppression of opposition (Bidens censoring).

You're comparing apples and oranges as if they are the same thing and literally calling the apple an orange('fascist').

[chemjeff radical individualist]

losing our Fourth Amendment rights is just the price we pay to keep the furriners out, I get it

[TJJ2000]

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, *and* subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of *citizens* of the United States...

If you're not a citizen that right doesn't extend to you.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Everyone gets to be an American I guess.

[Chumby]

“You get a citizenship. You get a citizenship. You get a citizenship.” - Oprah

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“Draconian….”

Lol. First fucking word, Jeff. You should probably understand by now why no one takes you seriously.

[JesseAz]

Cmon. He has sarc trying to date him.

[Chumby]

That would be a relationship frot with things we would not want to hear about.

[sarcasmic]

Translation: Anyone who thinks our current immigration system is too restrictive wants totally open borders. There’s nothing in between. Someone is either a good Republican who hates immigrants, or they want open borders.
Additionally those who oppose the current immigration system are all Marxists who want to start a proletariat revolution, bring down the capitalists, hand all the means of production to the government, and usher in a new age of man.
That’s right. Either you hate immigrants or you want to turn this country into the Soviet Union.

[JesseAz]

Your translation is another strawman. What i wrote is clear. But yes you do continue to ignore the costs because it destroys your bumper sticker views of the topic.

[sarcasmic]

You will never acknowledge any benefits of immigrants because you might be forced to think of them as human beings instead of animals to be rounded up, caged, and shipped back to where they came from.

[JesseAz]

There are benefits that are dwarfed by the costs dumbass. That is the reality. Your having a food truck doesn't offset the actual costs. You continue to make strawman arguments because youre a pathetic neocon who relies on ignorance lol.

It isnt a benefit if the overall combination is a cost. What a retarded assertion.

Sure you bought a million dollar car, but now you can drive to work for 5 dollars an hour!!! See!! Benefit!!!

That is your fucking retarded argument lol.

[sarcasmic]

First I was a leftist, then a Marxist, then a Bidenbot, and now I’m a neocon.

I wonder what the next label will be? Whatever it is you will no doubt have zero understanding of what it means, like all the other labels you use.

[JesseAz]

I've always called you a left defending neocon retard. Most of the neocons now openly support democrats like you do.

[sarcasmic]

I support Democrats?

That’s news.

I support neither. The fact that you’re so stupid that you think anyone who isn’t in your tribe is part of your enemy tribe doesn’t make it true.

[JesseAz]

Do you want your Joe posts again?

Yes. You do. All the time.

In every thread critical of a democrat you even run into to throw shit against the wall to stop people from criticizing them. Need evidence?

[TJJ2000]

Too restrictive = having more immigration than any other large nation on the planet?

Yeah there is a narrative going on here alright and it’s not in your favor.

And frankly your BS propaganda mining about "good Republican who hates immigrants" is wildly offensive. You're pretending anyone who doesn't just look the other way while their nation is being invaded by lawless border jumpers is 'hate'. No... F'That sh*t. Some of my favorite people are immigrants who worked hard and did what was required to become a citizen you F'En self-entitled criminal lobbyist.

[TJJ2000]

Sadly the majority of immigrants sound like you sarc (entitled to invade) and *that*/their mentality is exactly why they get such a stigma about them.

[sarcasmic]

I’ve known a lot of immigrants over the years, both legal and illegal, and none of them were even slightly what you described. They just want a better life. That’s it.

[JesseAz]

Whats Maines immigration population compared to Texas or Arizona retard? I've seen tripling in costs for ESL education. Every tougher Arizona trauma 1 hospital except one go bankrupt from care. Exploitation of all food banks and welfare systems.

Even in your low immigration state they have bankrupted the programs for citizen homeless. Something you should give a fuck about. Your knowledge is never based on facts.

https://www.themainewire.com/2022/11/maine-illegal-alien-asylum-seeker-welfare/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/maines-largest-city-strains-under-asylum-seeker-influx-11548601200

Everything you type or say is based on fucking ignorance. You dont care about facts.

[sarcasmic]

I haven’t lived in Maine my whole life, dumbass.

[JesseAz]

And yet you dont care services are being destroyed due to costs of illegal immigration despite have very low percentage of them.

As usual you dismiss all facts and rely on your ignorance and bald assertions.

[TJJ2000]

Want (not EARN) a better life on someone else’s greener pasture.
The very mentality that is destroying the very fabric of the USA.

Gosh. I just want your money(welfare), house(ICE) and land.... What's the big deal? Do you 'hate' me? Am I non-human? I'm a human being d*mn-it so I have 'rights' to your greener pasture... /s

The very mentality you display is the very mentality that is destroying the USA.

[sarcasmic]

Again I’ve never met any of the people you describe.

Have you?

[TJJ2000]

LMAO... Quoting direct phrase you're using.
And the kick in the shorts? It's YOU that I have met! 🙂

...and many many many more all the time almost of which are members of the Democrat Party. People that just constantly "want" what others have earned.

[sarcasmic]

I’ll take that as a no.

[JesseAz]

1M a year plus 300-400k more is " too restrictice."

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Jesse wants you to have to get permission from the state before you can hire employees for your business, to make sure that you are hiring the "right" kind of employees.

Jesse wants you to have to carry your papers with you at all times, because the police will be hunting for illegals and you never know when you might have to prove you are a citizen. Otherwise you might get 'accidentally' deported. Of course this is only really true if you have a darker shade of skin. Lighter-skinned people don't have to worry about it so much.

Jesse claims to wonder why those damned illegals don't just go through the legal channels to immigrate here properly. Of course he full well knows that the legal immigration system is so broken that it can take up to 20 years for a person to immigrate here legally from a place like Mexico. To Jesse, though, that's a feature not a bug. He LIKES it that way.

[sarcasmic]

Yep. That makes him a true libertarian. If you disagree you're a Marxist.

[JesseAz]

Jeff is a marxist. Youre just a stupid neocon who pals around with leftists because youre desperate for validation and have no principles.

Look at you defend your buddy marxist from labels after declaring everyone else trumpian conservatives. Lol.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Oh, did Jesse claim to put me back on mute?

LOL sure I'm a Marxist now. Whatever. It wasn't all that long ago that you were calling me some sort of libertarian purist.

[sarcasmic]

He just throws labels at anyone he doesn’t like with no understanding of what the labels mean.

[JesseAz]

I explained why Jeff is a marxist below. But he is your best buddy now. Lol.

Youre the king if labels dumbass. But you lie about it like you did claiming you never said Forever Trumpers a fucking day after you did. Lol.

[sarcasmic]

No, you explained that you do not know what Marxism means by describing jeff with attributes that are not Marxist.

[JesseAz]

Sarc, I can’t help youre retarded.

The fact you don't even know the basis of critical theory is marxism shoes you how ignorant you are. Go listen to the James Lindsay podcast since we know you don't read anything. Maybe you'll listen. He literally goes through direct evidence from the founding critical theorists.

Again you show nothing but how fucking ignorant you are and it permeates every post you make.

[sarcasmic]

Yes critical theory is pushed by self proclaimed Marxists. Doesn’t make it Marxist. Makes the people pushing it idiots.

[JesseAz]

Lol. Bookmarked. Thanks sarc.

Literally gave you a way to educate yourself. But you dont fucking care to do so.

[sarcasmic]

So far everything you’ve given me to “educate myself” has been so biased towards the hard right it makes my head hurt. Which is no surprise given that’s what you promote.
So I’m really not interested. If I am I will do my own research.

[JesseAz]

How is James Lindsay biased retard? He literally reads directly from the founders of critical theory. Their fucking words you retarded piece of shit. Lol.

Why are you so afraid of educating yourself?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Jesse wants the government to declare illegal immigration to be an 'invasion' and to deploy the military along the border to defend against this 'invasion'. Functionally, this means treating unarmed migrants as if they were enemy combatants. Jesse thinks that there will be a groundswell of support for Team Red when the military starts shooting 'enemy combatants' at the border to keep the homeland safe. Hooray! The military kept us safe from penniless Guatemalans!

[Pear Satirical]

Have you seen what's happening at the border cause it looks like an invasion to me?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Jesse thinks that there are no costs to border security, only benefits. We will be freer and safer and all of our problems will go away because those damned immigrants will be gone! Because as we all know, the reason why the country is $33 trillion in debt is because of immigrants.

[JesseAz]

It has been fun this morning watching Jeff have no different argument than what is on the marxism link.

[Vernon Depner]

At least he's making it easy for you by telling us what you think so you don't have to.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

So, how will this "ideological screening" work, anyway?

Border Patrol agent: Jose, are you a Marxist?
Jose: No, senor!
Border Patrol agent: Okay, you can come in!

What's the point of that?

[TJJ2000]

Marxists are easy to spot…
“Who thinks the gov-‘guns’ of a nation makes sh*t for them?”
or it could just be shortened to who’s the criminal of mind.

Which humorously fits to a T the very one's who think being invited to a nation legally is of no concern but breaking the law and stomping and treading where-ever they want on others nations is just hunky dory if not some kind of self-entitled right.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Something tells me your definition of 'Marxist' is very flexible.

[sarcasmic]

"Marxist" means "anyone who disagrees with conservatives."

Just like "Nazi" means "anyone who disagrees with progressives."

Same idiot mentality.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

I know, right?

We need a translator for this stuff.

[TJJ2000]

Your requested translation....
Marxist = Political Criminal.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

I know, right? We need a Jeff translator.

“Draconian!” - we let in lots of folks.

“Racist!” - yawn. See above. ^

“20 years!” - bullshit. See above above. ^

There is a limit, and we’re past it, I just don’t know how much more you need to see.

[JesseAz]

More strawmen to defend his best friend. Lol.

Jeff is a marxist based on his views such as his claims state welfare is required because people don’t donate enough on their own to charity. He demands action through the state when individuals don’t do what he wants them to do. He repeats all forms of marxist critical theory even defending 2+2=5.

But youre so ignorant to basic political discussions your only care about is he isnt mean to you.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

Hey Jesse, why don't you stop being a coward and respond to me directly.

At this point everyone knows your posts are full of nothing but lies and strawmen.

Hey, Jesse the Coward, why don't you be a man and defend why you think the military should be shooting unarmed migrants at the border. Or why you think the police should be demanding papers from everyone in their hunt for illegals. Or why you think the surveillance state that was created as a result of the War on Terror was so terrible, but a surveillance state created as a result of the War on Illegals is so terrific.

[chemjeff radical individualist]

You are such a pussy.

You run around and lie about me and slander me but you don't have the balls to even respond to me directly.

God what a pathetic little man you are.

[Chumby]

Omg. Lol. Type harder.

[sarcasmic]

Why do you think I compare him to a teenage girl, running around telling lies behind peoples’ backs?

[JesseAz]

What lies sarc? Which lies? How are you the only one here who doesn't see through Jeff's bullshit? Oh yeah. Your ignorance and lack of principles.

[Don't look at me!]

Ideas!

[sarcasmic]

What lies? A better question would be what truths. The answer is nada.

[JesseAz]

You can't even back up your own accusations. Pathalogical. Lol.

[sarcasmic]

I’ve broken down your posts lie by lie in the past and you of course denied every one. So there is no point. You are a liar who sticks to your guns even with proof.
Besides that the people who cheer you on are total morons who judge everything by the source because they’re too stupid to judge things on merit.
So it doesn’t matter.

[JesseAz]

No. You haven’t. You’ve lied directly about my posts then lied about your own posts I provide word for word evidence about you fucking dumbass. Want to see how to document a lie?

Here is an example where you said I lied but it was you.

sarcasmic 2 weeks ago (edited) Flag Comment Mute User How is what I said hypocritical unless the quote says using labels is hypocritical? It’s doesn’t, so it isn’t. Which means you’re lying as always.
.
I’ve never said trump cultists or forever trumpers. So there’s a lie. I have said Trumptards and Trumpistas, and I have compared his followers to Obama’s cult of personality. But I never used the terms you claim.
.
As usual everything you say is a lie.

JesseAz 2 weeks ago (edited) You said forever trumper fucking yesterday retard.
.
And you’ve used trump cultist dozens of times.
.
sarcasmic 1 day ago Flag Comment Mute User Dude, that’s the subject of many articles on Reason as well as one of the things you and your fellow Forever Trumpers keep whining about. Are you daft? (that’s rhetorical)
.
Such a lying fucking retard.
.
Bookmarked

That is evidence of a direct lie you dumb fuck. One where you again claimed i lied. Yet it is always you.

[InsaneTrollLogic]

My God, Jeffy, could you be any more pedantic and pathetic?

[sarcasmic]

Thank you for confirming my point by calling jeff a Marxist and then showing that you have no understanding of Marxism. It’s just a label you throw at people you don’t like.

[JesseAz]

You seriously can’t be this fucking dumb. Wait. You can. Do you even know what critical theory is dumbass?

How are you so uneducated? Do you ever take time to read links or posts? This has been discussed for years here. But you can never educate yourself.

[sarcasmic]

Marxism has a very specific meaning. It’s not “anything that conservatives don’t like.”

[JesseAz]

Critical theory is fully formed from marxism you retarded fuck.

You fall for the tricks of the left that try to dismiss everything as being impure. The founders of critical theory wrote much about it and the basis in marxism. But you are so ignorant you don't care. Keep pushing talking points. Keep being ignorant. Lol.

[sarcasmic]

I oppose critical theory because it’s stupid. Not because my political tribe (I don’t have one) associates it with The Enemy.

[sarcasmic]

Progressives think I’m a conservative and conservatives think I’m a progressive.
All that means is that I’m neither.

[JesseAz]

Two non sequitur in a row after youre shown to be ignorant about critical theory. Guess you admit defeat.

Have you ever tried not being ignorant?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

He can't just say "Happy Thanksgiving" like a normal human being. He just can't.

Happy Thanksgiving to ALL, including the Racist & Incompetent Attorney General of New York State, Letitia “Peekaboo” James, who has let Murder & Violent Crime FLOURISH, & Businesses FLEE; the Radical Left Trump Hating Judge, a “Psycho,” Arthur Engoron, who Criminally Defrauded the State of New York, & ME, by purposely Valuing my Assets at a “tiny” Fraction of what they are really worth in order to convict me of Fraud before even a Trial, or seeing any PROOF, & used his Politically Biased & Corrupt Campaign Finance Violator, Chief Clerk Alison Greenfield, to sit by his side on the “Bench” & tell him what to do; & Crooked Joe Biden, who has WEAPONIZED his Department of Injustice against his Political Opponent, & allowed our Country to go to HELL; & all of the other Radical Left Lunatics, Communists, Fascists, Marxists, Democrats, & RINOS, who are seriously looking to DESTROY OUR COUNTRY. Have no fear, however, we will WIN the Presidential Election of 2024, & MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!

[chemjeff radical individualist]

To be honest, he's starting to sound like SQRLSY.

[SQRLSY One]

I'm not SURE who you're responding to, but I imagine that it might be Der JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer. PLEASE don't confuse me with Der JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer! I feel CONTAMINATED!!!

Der JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer is an extremists who wants all of the illegal sub-humans sent back to whatever "shit-hole nation" that they came from... Never mind that USA citizens are sometimes deported, or the sub-humans are sent to the WRONG nationS!

Being data-driven, I note that both babies and immigrants consume goods and services, ya know, but also, most of them also produce goods and services eventually, in both cases. Most immigrants will produce far more quickly than most newborn babies, by the way!

So MY flavor of extremism is FAR OUT more-better RADICAL than that of Der JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer!!! The newborn native babies should be sent BACK to where they came from! Right back UP the Collectively Owned birth canals!!!!

[TJJ2000]

Once again. Cries about being human must equate to a right to invade greener pastures and kick self-created consequences onto someone else.

It's always the same story with you leftards.

Self-entitled to something someone else created because "I'm human" and anyone who tries to stop my armed-theft or illegal invasion are 'icky' dictators or the worst kind. /s

Ironically the very premise their “shit-hole nation” came from. Gosh it would be so easy for them to unite and enact a copy of the US Constitution for their own nation but instead they just keep on conquering and consuming what others have made and act all puzzled when the nation turns into another “shit-hole nation”.

Self-serving ignorance at it's finest. The conquer and consume criminal mentality. The very reason immigrating marxist affiliation is a massive concern. Never willing to acknowledge that gov - 'guns' don't make sh*t but instead is an unjust armed-theft.

The criminals out looking for a better life by stealing what they don't want to earn.

[Chumby]

Reminds me of The Elephant Man except with a squirrel.

[SQRLSY One]

Oh, OK, you were talking of Der TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer, NOT Der JesseBahnFarter-Fuhrer! My bad!

https://nypost.com/2023/11/23/news/trump-blasts-psycho-civil-case-judge-and-radical-left-lunatics-in-thanksgiving-message/

Now I feel REALLY contaminated! I will have to go get a bubble bath and some Crystal Power Therapy and an enema, to boot! TrumpfenFarter-Fuhrer, get thee behind me!

[InsaneTrollLogic]

TDS is a real disorder, Jeffy. Get some help for it.

[Vernon Depner]

Formerly fringe immigration policies have gone mainstream in the Republican Party.

That's because formerly nuisance-level illegal entry has mushroomed into a existential crisis.

there's little reason to believe they will fix the broken U.S. immigration system.

An orderly and beneficial immigration and foreign worker system cannot be established until we have greatly improved border security and control over entries. It doesn't matter what our "system" is if invaders by the millions can literally walk around it.

[CE]

The problem must have been fixed by now. I remember Biden assigning it to Harris a few years ago.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

If it could be fixed on her knees, then Cackles has certainly done it.

[CE]

Politicians promising voters what they want? The horror.

There was a survey way back in 2015 asking voters what the top issues were to them. Climate change came in 50th place. Immigration (meaning less of the illegal kind) came in 1st, yet few candidates were willing to campaign on the issue. Trump saw the opportunity, and, after converting to being a Republican, pounced.

[AT]

Solving unauthorized immigration requires providing legal pathways, but Republican presidential candidates so far have not been keen on making that argument.

Because everyone with a pair of brain cells knows you can't unflood a basement without first turning off the water main that's flooding it.

You turn off the water main, you get rid of all the flooding, you fix the busted pipe that caused it, you check for toxic mold, and then you turn the water back on having secured the proper flow that isn't flooding your basement.

Water main = Border.
Flooding = Illegals.
Busted pipe = Entitlement system.
Toxic mold = Criminals, human/drug traffickers, Muslims, terrorists.
Proper flow = Border controlled legal immigration.

[TJJ2000]

+1000000 Excellent analogy...

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Lol. “Make them all legal! No limits!”

“No?”

“See, they just won’t work with us!”

[Chumby]

Mike likes HO2 analogies.

[Vernon Depner]

But that's water under the bridge.

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Good

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Netherlands just elected a "right wing" government. Also in Italy, Germany, Spain, and Argentina (or libertarian if you prefer) the great unwashed are responding to the destruction of their cultures due to massively immigration. Sweden is experiencing an unprecedented crime wave driven by immigrants. The Koch libertarians would have us believe that all cultures are equal and unrestricted immigration comes without cost. This is demonstrably untrue. The US is the most prosperous nation on the planet because we once had a culture and rule of law that valued individual liberty. The great melting pot of the previous centuries was made up of people who valued that culture. A lot of people no longer have faith that 21st century immigrants are willing to leave their inferior culture behind. Whatever the financial cost the ongoing cultural degradion is affecting the citizenry whatever their ethnicity or race. What has happened in Europe is happening here and if Reason is really worried about "populism" they would do well to confront that reality.

[Vernon Depner]

I could support free and open immigration for anyone who arrives here from the Old World by sailing ship.

[Nazi-Chipping Warlock]

Hell, I'll accept people from South America that arrive by sailing ship... via London or Calais.

[DRM]

Since this is Thanksgiving, how did unrestricted immigration work out for the local tribes in Massachusetts, anyway?

[Chumby]

It was a blanket disaster.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

So, trying to prevent illegal immigration and manage legal immigration are far right fringe ideas? Fuck off, you posturing cunt.

[NOYB2]

Formerly fringe immigration policies have gone mainstream in the Republican Party.

A large percentage of Americans want a stop to illegal immigration, deportation of those here illegally, and limit legal immigration to people with special skills.

Now, Reason editors may not approve and not understand why this is, but in a free and democratic society, these viewpoints should be represented by some politicians. Since Democrats insist on flooding the country with foreigners, that means Republicans represent these viewpoints.

I fail to see what’s "fringe" about this. It seems far more "fringe" and totalitarian to me when Reason implies that these viewpoints should not be represented by our politicians.

[MWAocdoc]

Bottom line: NONE of the "proposals" will even remotely achieve the goals pretended for them, or even improve any problems they are claiming. None of the anti-immigration peeps - including the ones who pretend that they're not anti-immigration, just anti-illegal-immigration - can cite any actual facts to support their xenophobia except problems like welfare costs that couldn't be solved much more easily by simply stopping welfare. Enough, already!

[NOYB2]

except problems like welfare costs that couldn’t be solved much more easily by simply stopping welfare

Welfare costs are a red herring. What matters is per capita government spending vs per capita tax revenue, and per capita contribution to GDP vs average per capita GDP. People should only be allowed in the US if they improve both metrics, and, in addition, if they are committed to the US constitutional order. We determine this both based on group membership (excluding certain countries/ethnicities) and based on individual criteria.

can cite any actual facts to support their xenophobia

My xenophobia is based on being an immigrant: most people outside the US are anti-American totalitarians and far less productive and educated than native-born Americans. That's why I'm literally afraid of letting them in by the millions. Yes, it's actual "xenophobia" and I don't apologize for it.

[Harvey Mosley]

There's a typo in the headline. You 're missing the word "illegal".

[Johnathan Galt]

There is no reason for border security to be expensive. Just implement a national ID which records things like citizenship or legal residency status, home address of record, and rights revoked through due process. Then require that ID to:
Vote (in person only)
Obtain or retain housing of any kind
Obtain or retain work
Obtain or continue ANY government benefit, including schooling for children
Purchase / carry a firearm (acts as a national CCW, obliterating the unconstitutional laws implemented by many States)

Without homes, work, or government benefits every illegal will be forced to flee the country. Give them a six month grace period to dispose of any property and say goodby, give them a free ride out of the country. Flag every one here illegally as "prohibited future entry to the USA." Adios!

[bfortenberry]

I've found documentation going back to 1796 confirming that America has always practiced birthright citizenship for everyone born on US soil except for the children of foreign diplomats. All the 14th Amendment did was clarify that this birthright applies to everyone born in the US regardless of their race.

I just published a book explaining all the legalese of the Amendment and its related court cases. You can find it on Amazon at: https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0CNZC6MQV/reasonmagazinea-20/