Here's What the Hamas Attack Tells Us About U.S. Immigration Policy: Nothing
Conflating these issues only serves to make the debate over U.S. immigration policy more toxic and stupid than it already is.
In the middle of his statement responding to last weekend's barbaric attacks in Israel, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis veered sideways into a non-sequitur about American immigration policy.
In a post to X (formerly known as Twitter), DeSantis said President Joe Biden ought to freeze all foreign aid flowing to Hamas, the terrorist group responsible for Saturday's attacks that left more than 1,000 people dead, and freeze money "made available to Iran." Then, DeSantis added, Biden must "immediately shut down America's wide-open southern border to ensure we are in a position to better protect Americans here at home from these real threats."
That is…quite the jump.
Yes, it's true that Saturday's attack on Israel involved people crossing a border, and that immigrants coming to the U.S. also cross a border as part of that process. That's literally the only similarity.
To be clear: Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation. Mexico and the U.S. are not Israel and Palestine. And, as Saturday's attack makes obviously clear, even the most extreme measures designed to "shut down" a border can be defeated.
Conflating these issues only serves to make the debate over U.S. immigration policy more toxic and stupid than it already is.
Unfortunately, DeSantis is not the only one doing this. Former President Donald Trump, never one to care much about accurately describing the status of U.S. immigration policy, claimed in a TruthSocial post on Monday that "the same people that raided Israel are pouring into our once beautiful USA, through our TOTALLY OPEN SOUTHERN BORDER, at Record Numbers."
Meanwhile, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley—who has at times seemed like the metaphorical adult in the room during this GOP presidential primary contest—made a similar claim during an appearance on Meet the Press on Sunday. "We have to remember that what happened to Israel could happen here in America," Haley said. "We have an open border. People are coming through; they're not being vetted."
There is no internal logic whatsoever to these comparisons.
Let's start with the most acute problem. There are not many borders in the world more heavily militarized than the one between Israel and the Gaza Strip. It should stand in stark contrast to how these Republican politicians are describing America's southern border.
In fact, the Gaza border wall went far beyond anything that would be feasible or affordable for the U.S./Mexico border. As Amir Tibon, a journalist who survived Saturday's attack in Israel, described to The Atlantic on Monday, the structure included an "underground wall" meant to prevent Hamas from digging tunnels.
And guess what? The wall didn't work.
"This was a major infrastructure project for the state of Israel. And that project allowed us to sleep at night, because you can deal with rockets falling over your head if you have a safe room in your house, but if terrorists are infiltrating underground and they can walk into your community, that's a game changer," Tibon told The Atlantic's Yair Rosenberg as part of a harrowing, must-read interview.
"And in the morning hours of Saturday, October 7, when we heard the gunfire outside our window, we realized that this project is an utter and complete failure," he added.
Journalists should ask DeSantis (and Trump, and Haley, and others making this nonsensical comparison) what exactly he'd like to see done on the U.S./Mexico border. Are they asking for a level of militarization that exceeds what Israel has done on its border with Gaza? Because that's what this comparison implies, and even then Saturday's incursion should cause some rethinking about how useful walls on borders can be.
But even thinking about this comparison at that level seems absurd, given how many other problems there are with making the Israel-is-to-Gaza as the United-States-is-to-Mexico comparison. Thankfully, the U.S. has not been in a decades-long, slow-simmering conflict with our neighbor to the south—though some Republicans now seem eager to start one. There is no terrorist organization in Mexico motivated by centuries-old religious and cultural hatred that refuses to recognize the legitimacy of the American state or the rights of the people who live in it.
Most importantly, there is little evidence that any terrorists seeking to harm Americans are passing through the southern border. Conservatives often point to the fact that individuals named on various terror watch lists are occasionally apprehended while trying to cross the border—and use those incidents to extrapolate a massive but unseen threat to America.
In reality, that reflects how overly broad America's terror watch lists have become. They include well over 1 million names, including many individuals who have never planned or attempted to attack America. As the Cato Institute's Alex Nowrasteh has pointed out, "zero people have been killed or injured in attacks on U.S. soil committed by terrorists who illegally crossed the Southwest border."
Indeed, the best way to focus on whatever actual threats might exist would be to allow more immigrants into the country legally—leaving only those who cannot clear background checks to be sneaking over the fence illegally. That's the opposite of shutting down the border.
Immigration policy and anti-terrorism policies are both core functions of the federal government and right now both have deep flaws. We deserve leaders who take these issues seriously, but this sort of flippant and obviously faulty conflation of the two doesn't accomplish anything productive. If a politician can't tell the difference between migrants coming to the U.S. for jobs and terrorists hell-bent on murder and mayhem, they shouldn't be trusted with making federal policy in either arena.
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>>Conflating these issues
lol front-loader not required here.
Challenge your bigotry and watch the three minute segment of the video I’ve presented below. After all, it is a prominent Jew speaking.
I would prefer to hear from both sides before making a decision.
Which mainstream media outlet is interviewing the Palestinians in Israel, particularly the West Bank who have experienced 75 years of Jewish terrorism, apartheid and oppression while their homes and communities are bulldozed and new Jewish ones are built in their place?
Let’s hear from the Palestinians to recount what Jews have done since they promised to bring the US into WW1 in exchange for the British promise of Palestine via the Balfour Declaration.
Hell, since that won’t happen in our environment of propaganda and censorship, listen to an uncommon Jew tell the truth.
Miko Peled is an Israeli, an author, a public speaker and the son of a famous Israeli general.
He is also opposed to Israeli apartheid of Palestinians.
In the following video he puts into perspective what you won’t see in our western propaganda.
Between 40:40 and 43:45 in the video he describes Israeli terrorism.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ
>>Challenge your bigotry
idk man, mme. dillinger is m.o.t. and hasn’t lied to me once in 27 years. color me biased most likely.
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Misek, another ass-clown of the commentariat, lies. It’s all he ever does. Misek is a Nazi, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to understand that what he posts is no more than bigoted lies.
If he posts anything that isn’t a bigoted antisemitic lie, it’s totally accidental.
Misek lies; it’s what he does. Misek is a lying Nazi, Holocaust-denying, antisemitic piece of shit.
Uh, but you’ve never refuted anything that I’ve said.
Kinda begs the question what your criteria for a lie is.
How does someone refute your massive retardation?
When you’re making Pluggo look smart, Misek, maybe it’s time to stop digging the hole you’re in. I figure you’re about halfway to China by now.
Neither of you fuckwits are willing to share what your criteria for a lie is.
It’s probably as immature and shallow as you are.
You have no self confidence. Hahaha
No one cares about your goofy theories. Go back to stormfront.
You lie about the Holocaust. You lie about the SSmobile death squads. You lie about the photographic evidence presented to you
I speak the truth that you can’t refute.
You’re simply repeating elements of the lie.
Share what proof in the form of correctly applied logic or science you have that supports them. Note: paid and coerced testimony is not proof.
If no one bothers to “refute” what you say, it’s for the same reason we don’t pay attention to flat earthers. We know damn well you’re lying. We also know you’ll deny any and all proof of your lies, so why bother?
You’re too stupid to realize that truth can’t be refuted.
If you could actually present any proof of truth, it would be irrefutable.
These are the reasons that you don’t and can’t refute anything that I say.
It’s weird that yall feel compelled to virtue signal against Misek every time he posts (whatever he posts behind that gray box).
Almost like the holocaust narrative is sacred.
Wonder why that is.
I can take stupid, but he’s stupid and boring.
So just mute him.
Where do I stop then?
It’s the bigotry button.
Press it and you’ll never be faced with counter arguments to consider.
You don’t consider them anyways because you’re a bigot.
The button was made for you. Press it.
It’s weird that yall feel compelled to virtue signal against Misek every time he posts
It’s weirder that you feel compelled to White Knight him.
Almost like the holocaust narrative is sacred.
Ah.
Pointing out your sacred cow and self righteous shitting up of threads with repetitive virtue signaling is not white knighting anybody.
But you’re right- how dare I say anything not 100% worshipping the foundational myth of woke western civilization.
Never again, amiright!?
Guess we’ll need more hate speech laws and in-group patronage to pass on institutional power.
Amusing that the guy who can’t abide anything less than full throated condemnation of anyone to the left of Gavin McInnes and wishes death and torture on anyone not towing the line just can’t tolerate criticism of the actual genocidal Nazi.
Some of us have this weird attachment to the truth.
You would have a better relationship with truth if your criteria to identify lies could withstand scrutiny.
Your glaring lies don’t really require much scrutiny. All you do is keep repeating bullshit that was exposed as bullshit a long time ago.
Cite?
I didn’t think so.
Laursen, is that you?
Racism?
The speaker in the video is a Jew.
Hahaha
Rob has his own truth, which is utterly impervious to facts, logic and reality.
I’m pleased with the optics of this discussion.
Al Jazeera?
Boehm, aren’t you the pathetic POS who told Readership you were voting for Crooked Joe? You know, the cognitively challenged lump of flesh sitting in the Oval Office.
Biden and his old boss fucked this up.
Close the fucking border.
Too late… The “invasive species” known ass “humans”, who evolved in Africa, are already here! They ALL need to go BACK to where they came from!
Boehm voted ‘strategically’ for Biden. And as this attack is ultimately Niden’s fault, Boehm voted to make this happen.
Boehm, you have an ocean of blood on your hands.
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Iran/Hamas have been planning the attacks a looong time.
How many terrorists have they already sent to US across the Mexican border?
Boehm is a fool. All the Donkeys have blood on their hands thanks to Biden. How many Americans will be killed when the terrorists invited by SloJo strike here?
Twat about that them thar Hamas and illegal sub-human brown-skinned invaders RIGHT IN MY LIVING ROOM… Actually who have invaded my BRAIN, were I more honest about tit! They have NEVER lived, un-authorized by ME, in MY house, no matter HOW many sore-in-the-cunt, cunt-sore-va-turds bring this shit up, HOW many times! If they actually HAVE invaded my living room OR my brain, it is only right alongside of the much-dreaded… Lizard People!
Conflating these issues only serves to make the debate over U.S. immigration policy more toxic and stupid than it already is.
I doubt conflating those issues will make our debates more toxic and stupid. We certainly will find whatever makes those debates more toxic and stupid. And make sure that happens. But it won’t have anything to do with ‘conflating issues’.
We deserve leaders who take these issues seriously, but this sort of flippant and obviously faulty conflation of the two doesn’t accomplish anything productive.
Sure it does. It stirs up emotions, encourages hatred, and gets the base to demand politicians be given more power. That’s all any “leader” does these days.
MOAH POWAH FER MEEEEEEE!!!! (And My Tribe, so long as they properly adore and admire MEEEEE!!!! Else they are NOT of My Tribe.)
“I am The Chosen One”. https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/21/politics/donald-trump-chosen-one/index.html
Yes, it’s true that Saturday’s attack on Israel involved people crossing a border, and that immigrants coming to the U.S. also cross a border as part of that process. That’s literally the only similarity.
Except you know the migrants on terror watch lists being confirmed and Israel saying many of the attackers had crossed prior to the day the attacks hapoened…
Other than. No similarity.
To be clear: Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation.
Except for cartels and MS13 who have had a lot of attacks on US citizens. But not technically a military branch. Got em there Eric.
It’s a very specific claim, which is technically true, but ignores a huge thing by saying “hey, look over here!”
Yes, the people migrating just for the economic opportunities are not terrorists. That is true. It also completely handwaves people who might cross for other reasons, and the burden of proof is on Boehm to show those people don’t exist. (Spoiler: He can’t do that.) Closing the border is the right answer, irrespective of the terrorist issue. The fact that people with explicit violent criminal intent are also crossing the border is just icing on that particular cake.
Don’t forget the illegals who have driven without licenses and killed innocent people in auto accidents.And reading the names of suspects arrested in robberies and store thefts in my home town are
mainly names like Juan Carlos Ramirez or something similar.Ditto two men arrested on sexual assault and child molestation charges.99% Spanish surnames-I would bet that at least half of those arrested are here illegally.
seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work
Maybe so, but terrorists may be pretending to be coming here to work. Ever think about that? Think ICE is carefully interviewing and vetting the 10,000 people that come in illegally every week?
That comment makes your entire piece a sick joke Boehm.
10,000 per week? More like 10k per day.
Former President Donald Trump, never one to care much about accurately describing the status of U.S. immigration policy, claimed in a TruthSocial post on Monday that “the same people that raided Israel are pouring into our once beautiful USA, through our TOTALLY OPEN SOUTHERN BORDER, at Record Numbers.”
https://nypost.com/2023/01/23/38-terror-watchlist-arrests-made-at-borders-since-october/
Those are ones caught in 1Q.
https://nypost.com/2022/04/19/dozens-of-suspected-terrorists-stopped-at-border-since-biden-took-office/
Eric Dalmatia-Boehm doesn’t care about that. His sloppy castle of weak argument has been made, caught fire, toppled over into the river of fentanyl coming across the border and sank.
Won’t slow him down a bit. Nor will it cost him any cocktail party invites.
Good work, Eric, you fucker. Now I’ve gone and broken my rule about never, NEVER EVER reading another Reason article with “immigration” in the title.
So how exactly were these suspected terrorists stopped by our totally open border? This is why I stop taking anyone seriously as soon as they start bleating “open border” bullshit.
Journalists should ask DeSantis (and Trump, and Haley, and others making this nonsensical comparison) what exactly he’d like to see done on the U.S./Mexico border. Are they asking for a level of militarization that exceeds what Israel has done on its border with Gaza?
Enforce border laws on the books?
Eric. What emotional drivel devoid of any facts.
Aren’t most migrants catholic?
That should put them all on the FBIs watchlist.
Most importantly, there is little evidence that any terrorists seeking to harm Americans are passing through the southern border.
True. They overstayed visas for 9/11.
Odd how often the “they did not appear to want any harm to us” is the case…until they decide they want to harm us.
Whereas, parents wanting to protect their kids from gender ideologues need to be on a watchlist.
I know it. The attack on Israel was just like that time armed Mexicans on paragliders swooped onto Burning Man, spraying bullets wherever they went.
Don’t make me think positively about a Hamas attack on the U.S.
You don’t remember laughing Mexicans dropping grenades on beautiful Burning Man people, destroyed pieces of crappy art flying in every direction, before the Burning Man itself was torn down before it could be set on fire…? That was the day Paris Hilton and all the Kardashians were killed! It was all over the news! You live under a rock?
“That was the day Paris Hilton and all the Kardashians were killed!”
If that emotionally appeals to me, does that make me a terrorist? I do think we would be better off without them, BAMN!
But seriously, we do need a secure border, and just because Israel’s military level wall did not work against an organized, well funded and armed and highly motivated terrorist organization, does not mean that a lesser wall wouldn’t work against “Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation.”
What a feckless and grasping article.
The details of the trial are horrific. Leniz Escobar, also known as “La Diablita”, is a 22-year-old woman accused of luring five teenagers to a Long Island park in 2017 to smoke marijuana – where they were then ambushed. Four of the five young men – Jorge Tigre, 18; Michael Lopez, 20; Jefferson Villalobos, 18; and Justin Llivicura, 16 – were hacked to death by more than a dozen members of MS-13, a street gang with its roots in El Salvador’s civil war of the 80s and 90s
The racist citizens should never have been there. _ sarc
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/26/ms-13-gang-new-york-long-island-trial
Some immigrant gangsters with machetes did terrible things, therefore all immigrants are trained forces with military grade weapons. -JesseAz
A parent wasn’t polite to a school board member, send in the FBI!
Except that actually happened.
What does that have to do with JesseAz fallaciously and dishonestly equating immigrants with an armed paramilitary invasion?
Hi strawman generator!
That’s what the article is arguing against, and you’re saying the article is false. So it’s not a strawman.
Eric’s entire premise is false as I pointed out. You’re too ignorant and argue in favor of a false post. You have been given dozens of links at this point of the true costs of illegal immigration. It is not a net benefit. You have ignored dozens of stories regarding harm generated by illegal immigrants, always hand waiving it away.
My comment literally said:
Except for cartels and MS13 who have had a lot of attacks on US citizens. But not technically a military branch. Got em there Eric.
I stated clearly not technically a military branch, but neither are half of the Hamas fighters. They do not wear uniforms or act as an army per conventions. So you are arguing such a slight deviance to ignore the problems. Again, you created a strawman of what I said counter to what I clearly stated above.
You are dishonest and incapable of intelligent conversation.
Dude, I don’t read your links. You argue in bad faith. If I thought you were honest then I might.
Are you using StrawGPT now?
Hamas is militant, not military.
Military implies a recognized government, doesn’t it? A military defends a government. Militias may or may not fight on the side of the government. But if they win they often become government.
Sarc, Hamas won the last election in Gaza. I’d say they’re militant and military as they are the government there.
I’d say they’re militant and military as they are the government there.
I suppose they are borderline. Recognized by some but not others.
Sarc, are you too stupid to know cartels and gangs also have militants train up members? There is even an entire cartel formed from ex special forces soldiers in Mexico.
You rely on minutiae in order to try to lie about a position that holds no merit.
Some immigrant gangsters with machetes did terrible things, therefore open borders for everyone in the world forever.
~Sarcasmic.
You still don’t look smart by comparison.
JesseAz and others are committing the fallacy of composition: Some bad guys get through immigration, therefore all immigrants are bad guys.
Fact is that the article is right. The vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, just want better lives for themselves and their families.
Lol. The fallacy you and Eric are using is as long as they aren’t all criminals, ignore the actual criminals using a porous border. Once again youre projecting.
Again you lie as usual. Nobody has claimed that all immigrants are without sin. That’s a strawman you attack whenever you get pushback from your claim that all immigrants are criminals.
And nobody claimed all illegal immigrants were criminals or paramilitary. Apparently you didn’t get the memo of you inventing strawman when you can’t make an intelligent argument.
I mean I can even post the study done in Arizona showing illegal immigrants are in prisons for crimes at a higher rate than citizens.
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3099992
But again… no downsides!
And nobody claimed all illegal immigrants were criminals or paramilitary.
When you equate the Hamas attack to our immigration situation, that’s exactly what you are arguing.
Here is exactly what I argued just above:
Except for cartels and MS13 who have had a lot of attacks on US citizens. But not technically a military branch. Got em there Eric.
You are really bad at this shit sarc.
You ignore the violence of the groups coming over on such technical trivial differences. Just like Eric.
It’s not a trivial difference. You’re equating gangs with militants supplied by a rogue state.
Gangs have ex military members. One of the biggest cartels is filled woth ex special forces from the Mexican army.
You argue from ignorance as usual.
And that has exactly nothing to do with anything.
The cartels aren’t swooping down in paragliders, tossing grenades and slitting every throat in every daycare they find.
As usual you minimize actual horror by trying to claim illegals in the Home Depot parking lot are all terrorists.
Again you resort to minutiae 6o ignore all facts against your argument. Must be tiring for you.
Until an illegal immigrant uses a paragliding in an attack, open borders! Great argument.
Deaths are deaths. Illegals in gangs MS13, M, and other gangs still rape and murder. You will continue to ignore these facts due to your ignorance.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2020/10/13/cartel-boss-thought-to-be-behind-southlake-town-square-murder-is-added-to-fbis-ten-most-wanted-list/
Thank God no paragliders!
https://www.borderreport.com/immigration/border-crime/la-linea-cartel-member-linked-to-slaying-of-9-americans/
Only 9 Americans? But no paragliding!!!
Migranta all have jobs, work, and never commit any crimes. STOP pointing out their crimes. – sarc.
Some immigrants are criminals which means all immigrants are criminals! -JesseAz
Some of the people who don’t like Trump are Democrats which means anyone who doesn’t like Trump is a Democrat! -JesseAz
Some fruits are oranges which means all fruits are oranges! -JesseAz
It’ll be so funny when your pet migrant’s finally turn on you.
He lives in such a lily white state he doesn’t know what a Cuban sandwich is.
He doesn’t even care the limited number of illegals in Maine have bankrupted their social services and homeless programs. He denies there is ever a cost.
Lies as usual. I’ve never said there is no cost. Rather it is you who claims there is no benefit.
I have provided the evidence to you multiple times of costs being greater than benefits. Really weird you persist as all the blue states cry uncle over costs with 5% of the issue.
Yes I know you consider Bastiat’s work to be trash. You’ve said it multiple times.
As usual you lie and misconstrue my arguments. I’ve never said immigrants don’t pose a cost. Of course they do. With all the stupid government programs out there, lots of people are a cost. Regardless of where they were born.
Though I’m pretty sure if you look it up (you won’t because you argue in bad faith and reject facts you don’t like, and you will never admit to being wrong about anything because of your pride) you’ll find immigrants start businesses at a greater per-capita rate than us natives, employ people, introduce us natives to new things as they cater to their communities, and most importantly the second and third generations are indistinguishable from children of non-immigrants.
This is what, the tenth time I’ve given you this link?
https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Households-Access-Welfare-Programs
63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs Compared to 35% of native households
You are also doing the ole leftist trick of combining legal and illegal migrants as usual. Such dishonesty as usual.
You are also doing the ole leftist trick of combining legal and illegal migrants as usual.
Other than government papers, what’s the difference? Yeah I combine them. Because I’m honest and not appealing to authority. Instead of your ole right-winger trick of claiming people without papers are fundamentally different from people who have them. Though you wouldn’t use the word “people.” Wouldn’t want to humanize them.
I don’t click on your links because you argue in bad faith.
You dont clock on links because you prefer ignorance.
Well, there’s the Reconquista Movement.
“We reject the occupation of our nation in its northern territories, an important cause of poverty and emigration. We demand that our claim to all the territories occupied by force by the United States be recognized in our Constitution, and we will bravely defend, according to the principle of self-determination to all peoples, the right of the Mexican people to live in the whole of our territory within its historical borders, as they existed and were recognized at the moment of our independence.
“Illegal immigration to the Southwest is sometimes viewed as a form of Reconquista in light of the fact that Texas statehood was preceded by an influx of US settlers into that Mexican province until US citizens outnumbered Mexicans ten–to-one and took over the area’s governance. The theory is that the reverse will happen when Mexicans eventually become so numerous in the region that they wield substantial influence, including political power.
And there’s the potential war by proxy…
“In March 2015, at the midst of the War in Ukraine, when the US was planning on supporting Ukraine to fight against Russia, Dukuvakha Abdurakhmanov, the speaker of the Chechen Parliament, threatened to arm Mexico against the United States and questioned the legal status of the territories of California, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, and Wyoming.
For groups like that, there are no historical limits. I am surprised they are not blowing up Italy for the sins of the Roman Empire.
MS13 would never be charged with terrorism. Just let them cross. – sarc.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-crime-ms13-idUSKBN29J2KX
The Mexicans saying “Viva La Raza!” are about as serious as Texans who say “The South will rise again!”
When I go to find out the intentions of the chicano movement, I go ask the white guy from the whitest state in the country.
Ha ha. No, you’ll go to some hardened criminal in prison and claim he’s the spokesperson for every Latino immigrant.
Hey another lie! Congrats buddy.
Azatlan and La Raza have been active here since the 70s. I grew up around the movement. I’ve gone to the protests. I’ve had discussions with professors and teachers in HS. I know people who support it.
But I’m sure a white alcoholic from Maine knows more regarding their thoughts because you once ate a taco.
Good for you. And I’m glad you’ve concluded from where I say I live that you know my entire life experience. That’s an amazing talent you’ve got there. You can tell me where I was born and raised, everywhere I’ve lived and worked, my entire education, and family history all because I said I live in Maine. Fucking idiot.
By the way, that’s a textbook ad hominem. Keep fellating your fallacies.
You’re obviously an emotionally abusive gaslighter to people close to you, who only put up with you out of duty or money. You spend so much time here that your social and family lives are obviously shit. You tear down others to bring yourself up. You say things here that you’d never say in person. You’re a coward and a liar.
Glad to know your high school teacher hated Mexicans.
Did you eat another taco? Maybe we can talk about how much you know about the Chicano movement now. LOL.
Comments about my family while your wife left you, you abused your daughter, you were homeless, etc is fucking hilarious.
Remind me the name of the Trading Post in Maine you get your booze from, I’ll meet you there buddy. I have no problem saying things to peoples faces.
Glad to know your high school teacher hated Mexicans.
The teachers taught Mexican-American history and were part of Azatlan you retarded fuck.
Tell you what. I will gladly meet you somewhere and let you tell me I abused my daughter to my face. See what happens next. Game on. Legally them’s called ‘fighting words,’ and the subsequent assault on your person will be justified.
Nobody likes an angry drunk.
You haven’t named a place. You told everyone here cops were called on you for child abuse. Lol. Alcohol is a hell of a drug.
Nobody here is scared of you you beta cuck.
You’re the one who insists you talk to everyone in person with the same disrespect you use online, because you’re not a cowardly piece of shit.
You also claimed to have visited me in a homeless shelter lol, so tell me which shelter. I’ll meet you there.
Here is what you dont get sarc. I have plenty of civil and respectful conversations here with informed and honest people. You have showed time and time again youre not worthy of any form of respect. Youre basically worse than even Misek in your ignorance.
You also claimed to have visited me in a homeless shelter lol, so tell me which shelter. I’ll meet you there.
How fucking drunk are you? I’ve never made this claim. And I’ve never been homeless unlike you.
have plenty of civil and respectful conversations here with informed and honest people. You have showed time and time again youre not worthy of any form of respect.
cite?
whole of our territory within its historical borders, as they existed and were recognized at the moment of our independence
So . . . not including those parts that are in the US now? Because those were not “recognized at the moment of our independence” as being “part of Mexico.” There was a whole war and everything.
Azatlan claims the parts bought in Arizona were illegally taken. They don’t have rational arguments.
And as blood-and-soil ethnic nationalism goes, it’s a bit of a faceplant in that Aztec power never extended even as far north as Durango (MX, not CO). Modern northern “Mexico”, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Texas, etc., were Spanish conquests that never were part of Mexico in any but the very loosest sense for about 10-15 years after Mexican independence and its dubious claims on the entire Spanish Empire.
History and competence are not these people’s forte.
Ya gotta laugh at the historical revisionists. The treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo following the end of the Mexican-American war resulted in Mexico AGREEING to cede the territory to the US. Moreover, the US not only PAID Mexico, but also took on Mexican debt to the tune of millions of dollars – real money in 1848.
So the “Reconquista” movement is really the “shove contracts up your kista” movement. Sorry you don’t like the deal, but you weren’t there to make it, and you aren’t here to undo it. I’d love to see France come to us and say: “you know, we’re having second thoughts about that Louisiana Purchase thing.” Sorry, Pancho – between the Monroe Doctrine and Manifest Destiny, you’re overruled. That ship has sailed. Too little, too late. Your taco is stale. Thanks for the comedy. Now get the f*k out.
The treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo following the end of the Mexican-American war resulted in Mexico AGREEING to cede the territory to the US.
In fairness, a sale to someone who just kicked your ass in a war may have an element of coercion to it.
But the fact of the matter is that Mexico was incapable of administrating the territories north of the Rio Grande even before losing an expensive war. If you lived in California in 1835 and had a dispute that needed a court, or needed to appeal a tax decision or some such, your closest place to make an appeal to the government was Guadalajara. And this was back in the days when the Yuma made that land journey very dangerous, as they weren’t fond of foreigners.
It’s also worth remembering that the pre-Gold Rush population of California numbered in the tens of thousands and was one of the very poorest, most isolated places on the planet. The Spanish did not see California as a golden land of opportunity – they saw it as essentially worthless, expensive to hold onto, and ultimately a huge mistake to have taken in the first place.
Boehm is the enemy.
May justice be permanently done unto him by a migrant.
To be clear: Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation.
This statement reminds me a bit like the media declaring the 2020 election “the most secure in US history” 48 hours after it occurred.
It might be true, but how do you know?
So the statement that “no terrorists are coming across our southern border”… this might be true, but how could you know? Show your work. And “because we haven’t been attacked yet” is not evidence.
‘Because we haven’t been attacked yet’ is pretty good evidence depending on the timeframe of when ‘yet’ started and/or your rationale for why they are lollygagging around waiting to attack.
9-11 was planned and executed over a period of about 2 1/2 hours.
Maybe I’m missing something, but several of the hijackers attended more than a dozen American flight schools in the weeks before the attacks to learn how to fly the jets. So they were here for quite some time before launching their attack.
That’s not good rationale at all. “I can drive drunk because I haven’t kill anyone yet”
You do realize they have capture terrorist cells here. They also might stop others from happened.
It’s fucking idiotic, you tumor.
Yeah, Eric comes across as the Joe Isuzu of both American and Israeli immigration policies.
And “because we haven’t been attacked yet” is not evidence.
Especially given the evidence that the statement is really more *WE* haven’t been attacked *YET* (note signs saying, literally, “Israel: Racist Tool of U.S. Imperialism”).
@12:45, the Lincoln-Douglas debate of the Palestine issue.
Even in my 80s Action Movie fever brain of terrorist cells infiltrating the US and… living and working here for decades still have to… live and work to, you know, be in a terrorist cell.
Yes, but a terrorist living and working here so that they can be in position for an attack are doing the live-and-work bit as a means, not an end, so they didn’t come here to live and work here, which implies an end.
So, Mr. Boehm’s statement is still literally true. It’s also, at the same time, disingenuous crap.
A terrorists life and work are the violent act(s) he intends to carry out. Terrorism and luving+working aren’t mutually exclusive.
The “they just want to live and work here” or “they just want to work hard and support their families” is an oversimplified bald-faced lie.
Either they’ve omitted the “death and taxes” part of “live and work”, which begs the question what else has been conveniently omitted, or they’re specifically coming here to live, work, and dodge taxes.
Here’s another prescient statement that means absolutely nothing, as well: “Within the waves of murdering, homicidal-minded MS-13 criminals, there are some who can’t wait to escape the gang – and so gang members should not be looked upon as criminals.” Defining the subset of a heterogeneous group that does not reflect the central tendency of the group by their tendencies, and then implying they are reflective of the group is disingenuous at best and more likely an intentional logical fraud.
And using a temporal argument, implying that the status quo is immutable is like saying that armed soldiers on their way into battle pose no threat because they haven’t pulled a trigger yet. Using a logical form to prove an illogical conclusion does not change the sophistry of the statement nor the reality that surrounds the issue. All suicide bombers were not suicide bombers until they detonated.
Moreover, it is a bald-faced lie to imply that there have been no casualties to American citizens at the hands of the flood of illegals across the southern border – and those who would imply such are simply apologists for chaos, immigration mismanagement, and a dysfunctional administration of incompetents and liars.
But he has the magic rock that protects against terrorists (and elephant attacks, too).
Illicit drugs crossing our southern border have killed many more Americans than Islamic terrorism. A self inflicted wound caused by bad drug policies confounded by even worse border policies.
“Conflating these issues only serves to make the debate over U.S. immigration policy more toxic and stupid than it already is.”
And the idea that cutting off US funding to Hamas, Iran, or anyone else on the shit list will bring back the dead, bring an end to the occupation, or force the Palestinians into passive compliance and embrace their victimhood, is just as bad.
It may well be that for the Israel/ Palestine issue there literally is no solution; no matter that “we put a man on the moon,” our vaunted ability to solve an engineering problem just does not apply here.
Just not enough real estate to go around, and at this point they wouldn’t get along even if there was. Sometimes optimism is just really really stupid.
“It may well be that for the Israel/ Palestine issue there literally is no solution;”
I don’t think so. It comes down to a squabble over real estate. When both sides are ready to settle, settle they will.
What I said about unqualified optimism….just because you believe it should be and [usually] someone else should keep trying really really hard, pigs will never fly, no matter how much lipstick you put on them.
I believe that the two most dangerous ideologies on the planet are idealism and misguided optimism. Both are perverse and persist in the face of reality and generate no end of suffering, because of quixotic fantasies and an unrelenting belief that any problem can be solved. Often it cannot.
I believe that the two most dangerous ideologies on the planet are idealism and misguided optimism. Both are perverse and persist in the face of reality and generate no end of suffering, because of quixotic fantasies and an unrelenting belief that any problem can be solved. Often it cannot.
Well said.
Lots of people will point at a Christian form of unbridled optimism or a socialist form of unbridled optimism or a technocratic form of unbridled optimism or naturist form of unbridled optimism or even a libertarian form of unbridled optimism. They’ll make jokes about “With the best of intentions! What could possibly go wrong?” without recognizing that the misguided/inflated intentions themselves are the issue.
the Cowboys are totally going to beat the Niners.
“What I said about unqualified optimism….”
Like the notion that cutting US funding to Hamas or Iran is going to bring back the dead or improve the situation in Israel. This is not unqualified optimism. It’s unqualified pandering.
So we’re funding Hamas and Iran now? Talk about playing both sides, but what do we get out of it beyond more in debt?
“So we’re funding Hamas and Iran now?”
You should look into it if you are curious. Various Palestinian organizations, I believe, are funded by state department, UN and others. Money that was seized from Iran held in Western banks has been returned. This Hamas funding is probably shrill rhetoric from a pandering politician. I wouldn’t take it too seriously.
Yeah, I mean if I deny that my neighbor has a right to exist, it’s just a squabble over how high the grass is.
HAMAS doesn’t think Israel should exist.
No state has a ‘right to exist.’ Conjuring up imaginary rights isn’t going to solve Israel’s problems or those of the Palestinians. I suggest that Israel and Palestine leadership sit down together and try to iron out their differences and figure out how they can co-exist peacefully. Without this, slaughter is guaranteed to continue, whether the US funds Hamas or not.
No state has a ‘right to exist.’
Self-determination has left the chat.
Read the constitution. It contains a lengthy list of the rights we enjoy. A state’s right to exist isn’t there.
Israel earned its right to exist through numerous wars they were victorious in.
Indeed, few countries have so emphatically earned that right.
“If only those awful Jews had decided to live in peace with the Nazis.”
The Zionists decided to decamp from Europe and head for an alien land. If they wanted to live in peace they could have exterminated the indigenous population, or come to terms with it. They’ve done neither and are paying the price for it. Same could be said of the white supremacist regime in South Africa, and look what happened to them.
Partly so, but not true. Yes, Jews went to Israel. Israel was not created by Jews moving in and pushing others out. Ben-Gurion didn’t just waltz in with “The Jews are here; everybody out.” The animus towards Jews from Arabs long predates 1948. The area finally allocated to Jewish Palestine was a long-overdue manifestation of the Balfour Declaration, and was sanctioned by Truman, the Brits – who had been stalling for personal financial reasons – and the UN. The Arabs didn’t like it, but the “world” disagreed (the US was ~ “the world”; post WWII, we were half of the earth’s GDP) and split the area into two partitions – one for Jews, one for Arabs. After some mutual fisticuffs, the Jews prevailed, and Israel was in concrete. The Arabs still don’t agree. But the decision isn’t an Arab decision, which is why the weight of world power is behind (delicately behind) Israel; delicately, thanks to oil and gas controlled by Arabs. Otherwise, frankly, they deserve it; 6 million massacred. What – the world doesn’t owe them a little slack? Gimme a break.
You’re not addressing the issue of peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Are you comfortable that attacks like those of the weekend are inevitable and will continue to escalate? Would you not prefer to see a deal that brings peace to the region? You don’t seriously believe that the US cutting funding to Hamas will bring about positive changes, do you?
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel’.”
“there would be no more violence. ”
There would be occupation. And without peace, more violence is inevitable. And weapons are the only guarantee of peace and freedom as the founding fathers recognized.
“there would be no more Israel”
The land would remain. It’s not going anywhere.
“The land would remain. It’s not going anywhere.”
Yeah, because the concern here is the physical land. WTF?
The concern seems to be that the conflict won’t resolve itself, and that some work and sacrifice will be necessary to end it. If only Palestinian weapons would magically disappear and we could all live together is peace and harmony! Surely you know this is horse shit.
It’s not about real estate. The Palestinian psychopaths hypnotized by their pseudo-religious homicidal propaganda seek the destruction of the Jews; the destruction of Israel is a side effect of that more primary and primordial goal.
They have been focused on that by their puppeteers in the PO and Hamas, who have a hegemonic mindset only achievable by the methodological approach of Hitler. The Turks backed Hitler so strongly because they applauded his manic focus on Jewish genocide – complementary to their Armenian genocide.
Islamists are not coexisters – either you are their slave or you are their fertilizer.
Muslims and Jews lived together for centuries. In Israel and all over the world.
“Islamists are not coexisters”
But the Zionists chose to leave Europe and live among them. It’s incumbent on Israel to come to terms with the Palestinians and settle the refugees back where they belong.
“the Zionists chose to leave Europe”
What is it lately with the leftists on this site just dropping all pretense and coming out as nazi’s?
Zionists stayed in Europe and didn’t go to Palestine? Is that what they’re telling you in school now? Do yourself a favor and read a book.
Ever notice America is always an “idea” while Israel is a “legitimate homeland” for a specific people? How come Americans can’t have a homeland? Living in an “idea” is looking dicier by the day.
NATIVE Americans here have a homeland! The rest of us are invaders!
And actually, the ghosts of the extinct ice ages megafauna, many of them killed off by “Native Americans”, regard the “Native” American HUMANS as unwelcome invaders ass well!!!
We deserve leaders who take these issues seriously….
Well, *seriously* would pretty much rule out the flippant, dismissal of a border wall because it failed to stop a full-on co-ordinated attack. And *seriously* would pretty much rule out the implication that, absent border security, it’s possible to differentiate migrants coming to the U.S. for jobs and terrorists hell-bent on murder and mayhem.
So, yeah, Eric. I think we’re in agreement here. We deserve leaders who’d ignore your sophomoric half-truths.
Only out-stupefied by blatant calls for a massive USA Invasion.
The USA already takes more immigrants than any other nation. Why don’t you “Destroy the USA” fans start complaining about the others?
Because to them the US is the great satan, and it can only be redeemed by an inpouring of those huddled masses; until the next generation of those tired and poor souls turn in the middle and professional class, and then they will be the 1% assholes and we’ll need another infusion of the wretched refuse of some teaming shore.
That is progressism in a nutshell; I am miserable and you should be too so I can feel better [vs. doing something] about it.
I disagree I think the analogy holds true. It is true that any border security measure can be defeated…that is not to say we should not try though. Also the analogy that the relationships are not analogous is wrong. We see criminals come across the border and commit crimes (serious crimes) all the time. So if women and children can make it across so easily, then certainly it would be easier still for a terrorist. We shouldn’t make our border so inviting to criminals (which includes every migrant that crosses illegally between checkpoints).
To be clear: Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation.
Why does Reason choose the term “immigrants”, when the group most US citizens have problems with are “illegal aliens”?
Because they are using word tricks, and are thus full of shit, unworthy of debate.
To be clear, Reason magazine supports at capacity influx of illegal aliens, but try selling that to the American people, especially after what just happened to Israel.
Better stick to the word tricks.
Word tricks and language corruption are hallmarks of progressivism.
I am expecting “unregistered pharmacist” to replace “drug dealer” any day now, and “unauthorized driver” to supplant “carjacker”.
Speaking of “word tricks”, NYT has changed an article:
“As Israeli soldiers regain control of areas near Gaza that came under attack, they are finding evidence seen in videos and photos and confirmed by witness accounts of the massacre of civilians by Hamas terrorists.”
They replaced that last word in an edit with “gunmen”.
The endless psy-op to get me to think border control is impossible makes me think border control is extremely important, more important than I realized
Hamas is a terrorist group. It has killed many Egyptian army soldiers and police because they consider us traitors to them, and they are asking Egypt to make war for them with Israel after their fathers squandered the chance for real peace during the era of President Anwar Sadat. But I believe that killing civilians on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides is unjustified and not good.
https://nefartete.com
Biden just gave his full support on behalf of the US to Israel after this unprovoked attack.
Now he did look like he might nod off any second. He really is too old to be president.
Better old than a criminal like Fatass Donnie though.
“full support”
No one takes this seriously.
Conflating these issues only serves to make the debate over U.S. immigration policy more toxic and stupid than it already is.
By Eric Boehm
I agree. Despite the “Borders are just imaginary lines in the sand” starting point, there is not a border debate to be had that cannot be made more toxic and stupid by Eric Boehm.
And with his “Over 1,000 people, including Americans, were raped, tortured, and murdered by violent savages and we should try our level best to learn absolutely nothing from it.” position doesn’t disappoint.
Just wait ’til Fiona gets her say.
Journalists should ask DeSantis (and Trump, and Haley, and others making this nonsensical comparison) what exactly he’d like to see done on the U.S./Mexico border. Are they asking for a level of militarization that exceeds what Israel has done on its border with Gaza?
Minefields would be a good start.
The solution is pretty simple. Declare brown people without papers to be outlaws. As outlaws they don’t have the protection of the government. That means anything goes. Kill them, enslave them, rape them, torture them, and it’s all good. They’re not humans. They’re outlaws.
Notice sarc always has to retreat to calling others racist as he lives on one of least diverse places in the country and can’t make informed arguments to back up his side?
I don’t have a side. You wouldn’t understand because that would require independent thought.
Very effective. Might be hard on the wildlife. Still, it would get the point across.
Might be hard on the wildlife.
Fun Fact: In Romeoville, the US Army Corps of Engineers electrifies the Chicago River to between 2.5 and 6V at a frequency of 35 Hz to keep the only-socially-beneficial-migrants known Asian Carp out of the Great Lakes. The 2.5-6V will only stun the carp so that they wake up back down stream, but an animal the size of a human (or larger) it’s projected it would induce cardiac arrest 50% of the time or more.
Machine gun fire would be less destructive and just as adamant.
There are people in our armed forces and military academies who are experts at perimeter security. They are the ones who should be designing our border fortifications and security measures, not politicians. Let’s give them a measurable goal—say, reduce illegal entries by 80%—and have them come up with proposals and cost estimates. Their suggestions will not be simple bumper sticker slogans like “build the wall”—our southern border is too complex for that. There are places where our border goes through major cities; through suburban and small town areas; through agricultural and ranching areas; and across rugged wilderness areas. All of these different situations would require differing security measures and fortifications. Let the experts tell us what is needed where and how much it will cost.
When I took the US Army’s base defense course back in the 1990s one of the major things they tried to teach us is you can’t ever design something that is completely impregnable. That your big aim is to make your defensive perimeter imposing enough that your opponent either chooses to attack somewhere else, or is funnelled into a kill or neutral zone where they cannot harm you. Israeli military was a bit asleep at the wheel. It wasn’t that their border wall failed so much as they forgot what the point of it was. It was a deterrence and an impediment that was meant to buy time for an armed response. There really is two ways to take a fixed position. Coup de Main or siege. In coup de main the defenders job is to surge troops to the point of assault and take advantage of the natural enhancement fixed defenses offer. Israel got caught back on their heels. That’s why their wall failed. Not because walls will always fail, but because they failed to reinforce it in a timely manner. The biggest job of a defensive perimeter is to appear imposing and to slow whatever you’re trying to keep out, so that you human resources can deal with whatever incursion occurs.
On a related note, harder it is to breach a perimeter, the less personal you need to defend it. A single strand of barbwire is going to need a lot more personal than triple strand of barbwire, which needs more than triple strand of concertina wire with tangle foot, which needs more than a wall topped with wire etc.
Paint a line some distance on our side of the border. Put up notices that anyone between the border and that line are “fair game”.
Sell hunting licenses.
Profit!
No. Put the line on THEIR side of the border.
I mean, it’s not like the number of suspected terrorist alerts crossing the southern border has gone up multiplicatively these last three years from a grand total of eleven over the four years of the previous administration to 193 as of last accounting for the current administration or anything. Oh wait… it has? Hmm, does that mean that Boehm is talking out his ass as usual? I think it does.
Also, the only things the attack last Saturday shows is that the Israeli intelligence and military apparatus has gotten complacent, using electronically surveilled pillboxes to minimize the disruption to the observance of the Sabbath is idiotic, and that strict gun control laws don’t work.
Oh, and it shows that the military arms that Biden left in Afghanistan were in fact funneled to terrorists, that Iran assisted in the belligerent act of war by non-uniformed combatants, and that the members of this administration are either complete fucking morons who don’t understand that the entire purpose of money is to be fungible, or they are lying sacks of dogshit who need to be tarred, feathered, and run out of DC on a rail.
All of those could be true.
>>>To be clear: Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation
writing checks body can’t cash.
“They are absolutely not terrorists.”
“Well, OK, some are terrorists, but that’s not so bad.”
“A little terrorism is a good thing.”
“Death to America!”
The Law of Salutary Contradiction
Which brings us to the Law of Salutary Contradiction, whose formulation is: “That’s not happening and it’s good that it is.” While the Law of Merited Impossibility applies to the future, this one is about the present. It’s what the ruling class immediately switches to after what they insisted would “never” happen is happening before everyone’s eyes.
Is the NSA spying on Tucker Carlson? That’s an insane conspiracy theory … which is also warranted by Tucker’s treasonous contacts with Russian officials as he seeks an interview with Putin.
Is the Biden Administration inviting in illegal immigrants, then putting them on military planes and shipping them to the heartland? Absolutely not … and these future Nobel Prize winners deserve their shot at the American Dream.
Once you learn to recognize this pattern, you see it everywhere. It is the cornerstone of ruling class rhetoric in the current year.
The Law of Merited Impossibility
The coinage is Rod Dreher’s and goes back to the early debates on homosexual marriage. As Dreher formulates it, the Law of Merited Impossibility holds: “That will never happen, and when it does, boy will you [homophobes, transphobes, racists, sexists, whatever] deserve it.”
This Law is used, first, to disarm resistance to the latest leftist enthusiasm. Whatever the innovation is, it will have no adverse consequences. None! Puberty blockers and disfiguring surgeries have no downsides whatsoever. How dare you suggest they might!
Its second purpose is to dismiss out of hand “slippery slope” arguments—despite, or because of, the fact that every single such argument over the last twenty years at least has proved true. Worried that allowing people to “self-identify” as whatever sex they want will lead to pervy 50-year-old men exposing themselves to’ tween girls? Insist, loudly and indignantly, that that will NEVER happen and anyone who suggests it might is an alarmist bigot with a heart full of hate.
The third purpose is to enforce the new caste system. Those who get to impose fresh irrational indignities on the rest of us are the upper caste. Those who object, or even have reservations, are lower. The latter are not allowed to harbor, much less express, any doubts. Whatever humiliation the upper caste has planned for us, we deserve and must meekly accept. Hence when said pervy 50-year-old actually does start waving around “her” equipment in the girls’ locker room, if any parent dares object, let ’em have it with both barrels. That thing that ten seconds ago you said would “never” happen? Now it’s righteous punishment for the retrograde.
The Law of Merited Impossibility has done wonders for the Left in helping to ram through a wide variety of radical societal changes and cow into silence all opposition. It’s currently busy destroying girls’ and women’s sports, an outcome that we were assured would “never” happen. Though one wonders what the ladies did do to deserve it.
The Law is a bit passé, though, because our rulers rarely any longer feel the need to reassure normie Americans that everything will turn out OK, that the things we most fear won’t happen. Mostly, the holders of the Megaphone just skip to the second half, the angry insistence that we deserve it
There is, of course, a substantial difference between border control policy and immigration policy, which Boehm does his absolute best to confuse. You can, for example, support both a secured border and a policy of unlimited peaceful economic immigration.
And yes, the Gaza wall failed — when attacked by the military forces of what is both the de facto government of Gaza and the de jure democratically-elected government of Palestine (Hamas having won the parliamentary elections in 2006, and none having been held since).
If Mr. Boehm is really suggesting a wall on the US-Mexican border would be subjected to an attack by the military forces of an elected Mexican government, he is declaring that we do, in fact, need a border more heavily secured than the Israel-Gaza border.
There is, of course, a substantial difference between border control policy and immigration policy
But a secure border is a necessary precondition for improved immigration policy. It doesn’t matter what our laws and procedures are for immigration if migrants can literally just walk around them.
a wall on the US-Mexican border would be subjected to an attack by the military forces of an elected Mexican government
The Mexican “government” is not the only substantial military force across our border. The crime lords are heavily armed and organized.
1. Yep, even if the immigration policy is “let everyone who isn’t blatantly obviously going to make war on the US in”, a secure border is a prerequisite to the policy.
2. Sure, but we should be able to expect the official Mexican government to exert enough control to prevent the cartels from duplicating what Hamas did at the Gaza border. In which case the level that Israel had on the Gaza border a month ago should be adequate to secure the Mexican border.
And if we really can’t expect the Mexican government to exert enough control to prevent a large-scale military assault on the US border, then we really should, in fact, launch an immediate invasion of northern Mexico to both destroy the cartels’ infrastructure there and set up a puppet buffer state so that we do not directly border the failed state of Mexico directly anymore. (Say, a Republic of Aztlan consisting of Baja California, Baja California Sur, Chihuahua, Coahuila, Durango, Nuevo León, Sinaloa, Sonora and Tamaulipas.)
So, when Mr. Boehm says Gaza-style security wouldn’t be adequate to secure our southern border, he’s making the case for an immediate invasion of Mexico.
if we really can’t expect the Mexican government to exert enough control to prevent a large-scale military assault on the US border
We can’t. The cartels are heavily armed and have deeply corrupted Mexican government at every level.
we really should…launch an immediate invasion of northern Mexico to…destroy the cartels’ infrastructure there
I’ve been advocating that here for months.
There are already tens of thousands, if not millions, active cartel operatives in the US.
Boehm – put your money where your mouth is. How many illegals are you housing? It’s easy to virtual signal as blue cities have shown, hard to put into practice.
Go to the Texas border and see how great unfettered immigration is.
Eric Boehm home movies…
https://gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/149/034/071/playable/b8444998db28caae.mp4
lol
> We deserve leaders who take these issues seriously
yes, like our dear president who had a party last night at the White House and who closed the lid on official business before noon today. Very serious.
Seriously? This quasi-logical argument appears in Reason? “The immigrants coming here looking for work are not terrorists”? What a pathetic statement! Of course, immigrants coming here looking for work (or a handout, or asylum from their own country, or to escape arrest, or punishment for crimes they’ve committed, etc.) are not terrorists.
There have, however, been over 7 million people crossing the border illegally on Biden’s watch – a population greater than that of 36 of the 50 states of the union. Does the writer REALLY believe that in that 7 million people, he has absolutely and exclusively defined every one of them? That there could not be – oh, let’s say a thousand or so terrorists sent here by their ISIS or Hezbollah or Iranian or you name it sponsors to form a sleeper cell and wait for orders? Really?
Is the writer living in some dream world? Where open borders to “the Great Satan” are not seen as an opportunity to those devoted to our destruction, along with Israel’s? Are there really still writers old enough to use a keyboard who remain that naive?
Whether fences on their own work to exclude people like they do for cattle and horses is not the issue; it’s an issue of friction – reducing the flow. And does he advocate free passage? Has he ever MANAGED anything in his life besides an eraser?
This article stands as a low water mark of obliviousness in writing and the realities of self-defined “oppressed” people with a chip on their shoulder and a penchant for revenge, operating in a state of nature and goaded on by propagandists with a power-seeking agenda.
How utterly disingenuous to attempt to draw a false parallel between Hamas and immigrants, and then say that because a border wall did not keep out a militarized invasion force – that attacked by land, sea, and air – it could not keep out mothers with kids walking through the bushes wearing backpacks. Is he kidding with that false comparison? How about the terrorists paying the cartels big money to smuggle them across to do their damage once inside the US, anonymous and reconnected with their fellow murderers?
“Indeed, the best way to focus on whatever actual threats might exist would be to allow more immigrants into the country legally—leaving only those who cannot clear background checks to be sneaking over the fence illegally. That’s the opposite of shutting down the border.” How about this: let’s not let ANY immigrants into the country, legally OR illegally? We have MILLIONS who need to be assimilated, processed, screened, deported, fed, trained, schooled, housed as it is – does all that happen by magic? Is there no cost to it? Should we just let the chaos continue? What hallucination are you living under, oh sage author?
This article is an act of journalistic malpractice. Send this guy back to the minor league.
Is the writer living in some dream world?
Yes, like the rest of the Reason staff.
Should we just let the chaos continue?
That is the doctrinaire libertarian position.
Sweden today:
https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-new-normal-bomb-attacks-suburbs-kristersson-elections-2024/?itm_source=parsely-api?itm_campaign=parsely_recommended_widget-2&itmMedium=site_widget&itmSource=parsely_recommended_widget&itm_content=widget_item-1
Sweden, the liberal utopia that all liberals strive for.
“…as Saturday’s attack makes obviously clear, even the most extreme measures designed to “shut down” a border can be defeated.”
OK so we might as well throw it open and let the world in? Let’s see, the walls of my house don’t keep people out. the walls of a prison don’t keep people in, and the wall on the southern border doesn’t prevent anyone from looking for a better way in? Duh.
OK so we might as well throw it open and let the world in?
That is the position explicitly advocated by Reason.
I dunno, I think there could certainly be a lesson learned about willingly living in close proximity to people who envy what you have and hate what you are, while wanting to distribute the treasure you are holding.
Maybe allowing unlimited illegal immigration of a bunch of young, male, military aged dudes, who come from socialist countries is not good.
Maybe putting them up in hotels and giving away free shit while you have countless homeless rotting in the streets is a bad idea. Just maybe
https://twitter.com/Alt_Azn/status/1711870539789390103?t=F7867vU3E8JXxkwZqDr-3A&s=19
So the difference is that Amber alerts go up to 17 while the Ebony Alert will include 18 to 25 year old black people.
If I’m woken up at 3 am because 25 year old Quan’tavious is missing I’m going to sue.
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This is either top tier trolling, or the product of people too dumb and ignorant to be allowed any freedom whatsoever.
https://twitter.com/ItalyinIsrael/status/1711821345976181111?t=6hIIy4s4–8wGtijKUtBDw&s=19
Tonight, the Arch of Titus, in Rome.
We stand with #Israel.
[Pic]
https://twitter.com/Alt_Azn/status/1711590817553592358?t=IhPvi4A4iSze3EwjJXskdw&s=19
A live look at the Third World conditions in Gaza.
Oh wait this is Oakland.
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“America and Mexico are nothing like Israel and Palestine”
Only a few lines later
“The walls in Israel couldn’t stop armed terrorists, so obviously it won’t work in America, even though Mexico is nothing like Palestine”
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the Reason writers reveals himself to be Buttplug.
EB has no point even if his premise is sort of true. Islamic terrorism is not limited to certain regions. America is a prominent ally of Israel and rose to superpower status thanks in no small part to innovation from Jewish Americans. Jew hating Hollywood is (or was) making easy money putting out like 100 comic book movies based on characters created by Jewish Americans.
Iran chants for the deaths of America and Israel. Our fate is more intertwined than you know. WE are targets. And Mexico, a narco state halfway to Venezuela, does little to nothing in stopping the hordes of humanity from crossing their land and entering Ameria through Joe Biden’s porous borders. Whether Mexico is like Palestine is besides the point.
Every civilized nation, when thousands of its own people are killed in a terrorist attack, will take measures to secure its borders. The police and army will be dispatched around institutions and places of worship of those being targeted. Flights and other entry into the nation will be either cancelled or placed under scrutiny.
They will not, as some nation that exists in the minds of Reason saffers would, ponder about “Oh GEEZ, how will this affect the immigration into the country, how can we aid them to come to our country”. This is illogic. It is faith, not reason.
And because the equivalency will be inevitable, NO – building walls is not tantamount to gun control or surveillance. Aside from private property concerns, building walls on or own territory violates no one’s rights. Foreigners do not have constitutional right to enter our land without permission. If they were forced to fly in because of the wall, guess what, the walls worked. We’re forcing them to spend money and limiting their point of entry.
I support some kind of amnesty. I don’t want the government to seize upon tragedy to suspend our freedoms. But none of that has to do with future immigration. This isn’t about THEM. There are dead babies and grandmas on the road. This isn’t civilian casualty resulting from warfare between uniformed soldiers. This isn’t random mass shooting. It’s terrorism. The republicans are 100% correct in calling out Biden’s mismanagement of the border.
Gay immigrants won’t be able to smoke dope, own guns or marry each other in an Islamic state. Wake up.
There’s no debating an anarchist or leftist. A millennial anarchist was dragged to her death and decapited in Oakland CA a few months ago, and her family informed the police department she would have wished the perps freed, with no prosecution and no incarceration.
Anarchy and leftism is stronger than any religious zealots I’ve met. Leftists are utopian ideologues, not consequentialists. There are leftist cells in Latin America, larger than Hamas, that are well trained and organized, Columbia and Peru, Mexico.
Unfortunately, there’s no cure for that disease.
Screw amnesty. I think we learned decades ago that all an amnesty does is tell the people still outside that if they can get in and hold out for a while, they’ll get an amnesty, too. We’ve been dealing with the incentives that created ever since.
Rather, we need to establish that, no, even if you get in, even if you manage to hide for a decade or two, sooner or later you’re going to be ejected.
And we better establish that soon, because sooner or later the Democrats are going to have more than a razor thin majority in Congress, and the White house, at the same time. And when that happens they’re going to mass naturalize all the illegal immigrants in the country, to make it impossible to undo the results of their deliberately flooding the country with illegal immigrants.
And then the flood is going to turn into a tsunami.
Yep.
Lol
https://twitter.com/echo_chamberz/status/1711764362690781617?t=paqrzLb0KzYbXsuDtJmSJg&s=19
Reminder
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https://twitter.com/Indian_Bronson/status/1711892703863079361?t=btJLnk6nfjZ9vZMlMd4Wcw&s=19
The Philosopher speaks
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Dear Author,
Either you are being obtuse or you have not been paying attention to what is actually going on on the US border.
At the end of the 3rd fiscal quarter of this year, Border Patrol has apprehended 160 people on the DHS Terrorist Watch list. This is a 60% increase over the previous year, and the year wasn’t even over yet. This is the number of APPREHENSIONS. What do suppose the number of “get aways” might be? Chinese nationals have also been crossing illegally into the US through the unsecured Southern border. Why would they do such a thing? I’m not saying that all these people have nefarious intentions, although entering a country illegally is nefarious in and of itself. But it doesn’t have to be all of them. All it takes is a handful, or even one. Timothy McVeigh pulled off the single deadliest act of domestic terrorism single handedly. ONE PERSON responsible for the deaths of 168 people, 19 of whom were children, and injured almost 700 others.
Your headline is correct, but for the wrong reason. The utterly barbaric, unconscionable and indefensible attack of Hamas on innocent Israeli civilian men, women and children has NOTHING to do with the US immigration policies. It does, however, have EVERYTHING to do with Border and Homeland Security. THIS is the point the Gov. DeSantis and the Honorable Ms. Haley were making; the point you obviously, and arguably deliberately, missed. Reason without context is useless, much like YOUR conflated argument.
And Venezuela reportedly emptied out their prisons to provide more migrants
There is enough evidence that a truck bomb was not responsible for the Murragh Building bombing. A former explosives expert from the Air Force stated that no truck bomb could have caused that much damage.
Not to mention that several unexploded bombs were removed from the structure after the damage.
Was McVeigh actually the person guilty of this heinous crime? Or were there other actors involved.
To be clear: Immigrants seeking to come to the U.S. to live and work are absolutely not terrorists conducting a paramilitary operation. Mexico and the U.S. are not Israel and Palestine. And, as Saturday’s attack makes obviously clear, even the most extreme measures designed to “shut down” a border can be defeated.
1. And neither were they in Israel either. Until they were.
2. Yet.
3. Someone wants to murder me they’re probably going to manage it – yet we still have police, courts, jails, and I carry a gun.
Or, another analogy.
If you want to break into my home you can probably find a way to accomplish that – but I lock my door anyway. Because at least it’ll make you work for it a bit and that’s enough to deter a lot of people.
Obviously Boehm forgot about those on the terrorist watch list already caught attempting to sneak in through the porous border.
Hey Boehm – the people who did 9/11 were here as peaceful immigrants. Until they flew planes into the buildings.
This article may not age well.
It aged like a dog turd on a San Diego sidewalk before he got two sentences in.
“They are absolutely not terrorists.”
“Well, OK, some are terrorists, but that’s not so bad.”
“A little terrorism is a good thing.”
“Death to America!”
https://twitter.com/BowTiedRanger/status/1712082842673455553?t=afidEm_5X_BxdDx1Qtiwig&s=19
Globalists gleefully shipped Rust Belt jobs overseas right before importing third-world migrants.
Can’t think of a better way to destroy a society.
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This may be Boehm’s stupidest rant. I rarely read this formerly thoughtful and formerly libertarian website.
Boehm (like most writers and editors at Reason) is a Biden supporting lefty who blames the GOP for all of the disastrous policies imposed by Biden and left wing Democrats.
Correct.
True Libertarianism is profoundly anti-globalist, so what sort of “Libertarians” support a more open immigration policy? Anti-worker scum, that’s who.
All this absurd virtue-signaling on the part of “Leftist Libertarians,” is a pathetic vanity that hides an inherent hatred of the working class. These are the same twits that prattle on and on about Supply Side policies being the answer! They are NOT! In fact, we need to balance the last wayward half century with a return to Demand Side policies. Paying workers well ISN’T enough, we need massively overpaid workers who will then fuel an unprecedented demand, which will in turn, usher in a new and massive prosperity. While we’re at it, we should also massively raise social security and public pension payments. The resulting skyrocketing demand will raise all boats. Supply Side policies have doomed us to a few boats rising at the expense of all others.
Globalism is incompatible with Libertarianism because it’s incompatible with liberty. Nationalism is the natural outgrowth of like groups, or in-groups connecting solely with in-group members (“Freedom of association”) and excluding “outsiders.”
The idea that there are no such things as “in-groups” and “outsiders” is a Bolshevik view, and all Libertarians should reject that.
This garbage publication hasn’t been Libertarian since 2016.
“Gaslight, lie, bullshit. Also, property rights are like, un-Libertarian. Therefore, SEND MOAR ISLAMOFASCISTS!!!1111”
Apparently Boehm has either ignored or forgotten the fact that a number of those attempting to sneak into the states were on the terrorist watch list have already been captured.
With all the tens of thousands of young males from the middle east waltzing past the patrols along the southern border, which, in all regards is no longer a border, we have no idea what so ever concerning their intentions or even their alliances to whatever group, or that they could very well be parts of sleeper cells awaiting for instructions
Nobody knows but they’re here none the less. The government most likely has no idea where they now are. The truth is nobody knows how many bad actors have now taken up residence in our neighborhoods. That means your neighborhood as well.
Addressed this dissonance above; he truly is trying to play both sides of the fence…and it doesn’t wash.
“Under the current regime, the United States does not have a southern border at all.”
Agreed. It’s more a frontier than a border. Open, empty, permeable and hostile. But as long as people live on either side, people will cross back and forth, always have done.
He’s lying out of his ass is what he’s doing, and hoping that if he moves the cups around fast enough you won’t notice him picking your pockets.
>>Boehm is playing a disingenuous game here.
credit where not necessarily due.
the Israeli wall was breached by a paramilitary force (which, as Boehm posits, is not a consideration at our southern border
But there IS a heavily armed paramilitary force at our border.
I just mute all of those imbeciles like Liarson, Sarc, and shit eating Sqrilsy, who are here for no reason other than to provoke threads of outrage. It’s what gets them off [sadly enough] and I don’t want to be a part of that no matter how remote.
Think of all the food trucks! Who cares if a few citizens die! No downside to illegal immigration!
“A squabble over real estate.” He makes it sound like they are negotiating over a town house in Manhattan.
Get Soros and his Open Society Foundation on that. Somehow if we just didn’t have borders everyone would come out equal and we would have nothing to fight about.
“and there can still be a border.”
You just now stated that US doesn’t have a southern border. I helped clarify by saying that it was more of a frontier, and what makes a frontier a frontier.
“People can cross back and forth, and there can still be a border.”
Butt according to the likes of Goldilicks GorillaShit (AKA Garbage Gargler), it is snot a REAL border, unless the illegal sub-human brown-skins are kept OUT, with the deployment of OVERWHELMING Government Almighty military FORCE!
I predict that very soon, the 100-mile-wide “Constitution Free Zone” in the USA (where “papers please” is in effect, and free travel is restricted) will have a new rule imposed… No cameras allowed! Because we don’t want pictures of the piles of corpses! Anyone recall the bans on cameras and pictures of the coffins of too many American soldiers coming home from too many stupid overseas wars? That’s what I’m talking about! Spin control, no cameras! The “Constitution Free Zone” will become a free-fire zone, but also a camera-free zone!
Then after that, Trump (POTUS Part II) will figure out a NEW way to score points with his base…
Anyone recall the Iran-Iraq wars of the 1980s? Lots of it was fought in low-laying salt-water marshes. Very tough terrain for Iraqi military vehicles… And it is expensive to bring in bunches of rocks or logs to raise up the mud to make roads. But there were BUTTLOADS of Iranian corpses just laying around for free! So the Iraqis just limed ’em up (for rot-proofing), and lined ‘em up and laid ‘em down to make roads! Lime ’em up, line ’em up, lay ’em down!
So we can soon expect Der TrumpfenFuhrer to steal a page from the Iran-Iraq war! The Mexicans won’t pay for His Walls?!? Make raids on Mexican peasant villages, round up conscript wall-building labor, and build the wall out of the limed-up corpses of illegal sub-humans!!! (Or at least the top-rim of the wall, for max psychological intimidation). For every American soldier killed in the effort, there will be reprisal shootings of 200 more illegal un-Americans!
Don’t say no one warned you of what is coming! Trump wants to “win” at any costs!
Iran-Iraq war…
For those who may not believe me…
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-08-14-wr-831-story.html
Documentary : Madness in the Marshes: Hussein’s Last War : The Iraqi leader’s tactics were surgically precise in the spring of 1984. Thousands of Iranian troops paid the ultimate price.
I’m calling it now.
In 10 years’ time, Presidente por Vida Trump’s clone tears down the Statue of Liberty as a symbol of terrorism to the cheers of millions, including GG, JA and ML.
Sarc, put the bottle down and step away from the computer.
what in tarnation?
A phony apologist canard that doesn’t stand up to the math. Americans WILL do the job immigrants do; they just won’t do it at the pennies per hour at which the immigrants will. Stop immigrants cold, so that no farmer can hire them. Bump the $5 to $7.50/hr wage to $25 an hour. Make hiring illegals a capital offense, with confiscation of all assets. Watch farmers hire Americans.
Then do the math, calculating the labor cost component of the cost of goods for farm products and realize that at the retail level, it amounts to pennies. Add in the increased labor costs of real wage costs and see that it still amounts to pennies. I’ve done the math; is your basket of blueberries worth 4 more cents? Will you pay a nickel more for a bag of cherries to employ American citizens and get them off the dole, so that you are paying the supermarket, instead of the tax man to fund welfare for idle workers?
The whole story is corrupt; farmers do it because the Mexicans snuck in and offered to work for peanuts – if not at your farm, at the farm down the road, who would then undercut you. Self-defense means you hire them.
But keep them out, the market readjusts, and we all get to drink wine that’s a dime a bottle more expensive. BFD. Do the math; the truth will set you free – to think.
Not if you eliminate the welfare state.
Land mines sure as hell make a border.
Right! All that Salmonella and E. Coli we would miss from our diets! What a tragedy not to have any competition for restaurants run by American citizens trying to survive “Bidenomics.”
This immigration insanity has almost destroyed my respect for Reason.
Not that I have nay respect LEFT, just that there were some other reason, too.
Mountain ranges are quite popular, and far more effective than any wall.
Same.
As I noted below, this article qualifies as journalistic malpractice by someone who should be banished back to the minor league.
Not one aiming to breach the wall and kill us all and steal our land. One trying to shove paying clients, drugs, weapons, their business associates in the drug and human trafficking trade, and the troops they disguise as “gang members” as enforcers of their economic turf down our throats to corrupt our society and extract our money. Utterly different goals and tactics. The only sameness is in the probable only solution to their presence – extermination. Note: not of Arabs; of Hamas – as a “legitimate” “government.”