Environmentalists Are Destroying My Kitchen
Despite the New York Times’ gaslighting, bureaucrats and politicians are coming for your stoves.

My New York City apartment doesn't have a lot going for it. It's 700 square feet. The master bedroom fits little more than a queen-sized bed. There's no kitchen pantry. My baby son sleeps in a large closet. But I'm a cook, and it does have at least one thing that keeps me renewing the lease year after year: a four-burner gas stove.
Gas ranges allow cooks a greater degree of control over heat, from which flavor and texture result. But for the next generation of New York cooks, that feature will be even more of a rarity.
Starting this year, gas stove hookups will be banned in newly constructed buildings under seven stories throughout the five boroughs. The 90-year-old brownstone I live in, which was renovated and divided into four units in 2019, will be grandfathered in. Starting in 2027, this regulation will also apply to taller buildings. Inspired by city regulators, state lawmakers passed a similar ban in May. Now, New Yorkers who like high-heat and precise temperature control will be out of luck regardless of whether they live in Buffalo or Bushwick.
Over on the Left Coast, Berkeley adopted a similar ban in 2019, which was overturned by the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals this April. More than 50 other California cities, from Los Angeles to Sacramento, have adopted copycat regulations over the last five years which are now in legal limbo. Then in January, the feds got on board: Consumer Product Safety Commissioner Richard L. Trumka Jr. called gas stoves "a hidden hazard" and made noises about possibly banning them, saying—ominously, to libertarian ears—"products that can't be made safe can be banned."
Under the guise of environmentalism, big government types keep coming for our kitchens—from gas stoves to dishwashers. Even our pizza ovens are under siege.
It's the same story every time, with endless permutations: Environmentalists pick a product to ban, use questionable evidence to justify their onslaught or misunderstand how people's behavior will shift if their tools are made worse, and leave the rest of us to suffer the consequences—peppering our lives with additional low-grade annoyances.
What today's environmentalists fail to realize is that people will change their purchasing behavior as it becomes easier and cheaper to do so, that the products they seek to impose will, in many cases, inevitably become part of the marketplace if they're good enough.
In the meantime, they've made our kitchens and cooking worse, with no real effect beyond annoyance and cost increases.
***
"No one is coming for your gas stove anytime soon," reassured a headline in The New York Times back in January, after the fracas that ensued in response to Trumka's comments. "Switching from gas to electric stoves is seen as good for the environment—which has inspired a conservative backlash," reads the subhead, which somehow pins the blame on conservatives.
The CPSC quickly came to Trumka's defense, citing how the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and World Health Organization had deemed the levels of nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide released by gas stoves unsafe. As evidence, it offered a new study that attributed 13 percent of childhood asthma cases to gas stoves.
Just one problem: The study was terribly flawed.
It was not full of new findings or bolstered by new and better methodology, but rather a review of existing literature on the topic. It used excess asthma risk calculations from those studies and an estimate of the number of homes in the U.S. with gas stoves in them to calculate how many childhood asthma cases are caused by gas stoves (12.7 percent, they claim). It was funded by the environmentalist group Rocky Mountain Institute (RMI), which seeks to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 50 percent by 2030. Study co-author Brady Seals is part of RMI's carbon-free buildings initiative—a conflict of interest that makes clear where RMI stands on the matter of eliminating gas stoves from people's homes.
In order for that number to hold up, you have to accept that gas stoves are a significant contributor to the development of childhood asthma. But there's a lot of noise in the data: Namely, that households that own gas stoves tend to look different than households that don't, and that there are a lot of uncontrolled variables which distort the confidence with which we should believe RMI's estimate.
Trumka, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm, who jumped to his aid, and Democratic senators like Cory Booker, who adopted this as a cause du jour by adding a racial justice sheen to it, ignore that some 35 percent of Americans use gas stoves because they want to. Gas tends to be cheaper than electric. Most home chefs—not to mention nearly all professionals—despise electric stoves for good reason; they take more time to initially heat up and are slower to respond when heat is ratcheted up or down. Searing a scallop or caramelizing onions is far more difficult with a suboptimal appliance, and even with practiced technique the results are likely to taste worse.
But it's not just stoves that today's big government types seek to banish to the ash heap of (appliance) history.
"The dishwashers, they had a little problem," President Donald Trump said while campaigning in Nevada back in 2020. "They didn't give enough water, so people would run them 10 times, so they end up using more water," he added, correctly identifying the core problem, if exaggerating the magnitude.
"We're looking very strongly at sinks and showers and other elements of bathrooms, where you turn the faucet on in areas where there's tremendous amounts of water, where it all flows out to sea because you could never handle it all, and you don't get any water," Trump had said the year prior. People "take a shower and water comes dripping out, very quietly dripping out. People are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times, as opposed to once; they end up using more water. So EPA is looking very strongly at that, at my suggestion."
"Since 1994, federal law has capped flow from a shower head to 2.5 gallons of water per minute," reported The Washington Post. "After manufacturers started producing more luxurious shower fixtures with more than one nozzle, the Obama administration amended the rule so that the same limit applied to the entire fixture." The Energy Department under Trump revoked that rule, allowing multiple nozzles, but did not make the case for why the federal government should be concerning itself with such consumer choice matters in the first place.
Though Trump might be incorrect that people are flushing their toilets 15 times in a row to achieve a shiny clean bowl, he's directionally correct, bringing attention to the fact that efficiency standards—which have been ratcheted up in recent years—frequently end up being anything but. "'Efficiency' has become a euphemism to laud an appliance that uses fewer inputs relative to its outputs rather than shorthand for doing the job as effectively as possible," wrote National Review's Noah Rothman.
"When a new energy standard is adopted by the DOE, the result is an increase in dishwasher cycle time," reads a report by the free market Competitive Enterprise Institute. "Of the current 177 models reviewed by ConsumerReports.org, the fastest cycle time was the Frigidaire model FBD2400KS at 90 minutes. This is not due to consumer choice, but because it is not technologically feasible to create dishwashers that both meet the current standards and have cycle times of one hour or less." (Some dishwashers have shorter cycles, running at about 60 minutes, which can rinse glass but don't really get the job done when confronted with tougher grease and grime.)
"Manufacturers have met these [energy efficiency] standards by having machines recirculate less water throughout a longer wash cycle," wrote Reason's Christian Britschgi.
But another unintended consequence of the war on dishwashers is that people, when faced with less effective dishwashers, spend more time prewashing their dishes, or end up handwashing them altogether, which uses somewhere between three and five times the amount of water that would have been used by the appliance. As for the showerheads, people predictably report taking longer showers when the water pressure is worse.
Granholm said in May, when announcing tightened emissions standards for vending machines, dishwashers, and electric motors, that consumers can expect to save more than $650 million in water and energy bills as a result of the administration's push to force tighter standards on appliance makers. But if it were so self-evidently money-saving, wouldn't manufacturers have already moved in that direction? Do we really need Granholm and other federal bureaucrats to tell us how to wash our dishes and hair?
***
It's not just the large appliances. Little things that make people's lives better, tastier, and less tedious are being cracked down on by big government types in federal and state governments.
Activists in Washington, D.C., have succeeded at getting the city council to crack down on gas-powered leaf blowers. People who actually use such equipment, like low-paid supers tasked with keeping outside areas of apartment buildings clean, say battery-powered alternatives make it harder for them to get their jobs done; gas is still the best in the game. San Francisco led the nation in banning single-use plastic bags back in 2007; now, nine states—California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, New York, Oregon, Vermont, and Colorado—have outright bans on the grocery-store staples which are cheap to make, light to transport, and can impressively hold more than 1,000 times their own weight. Though environmentalists claim these "urban tumbleweeds" are clogging up streets and storm drains, polluting oceans and harming wildlife, most reliable studies indicate they comprise a very small percentage of overall litter—besides, most users attest to the fact that they simply do the job way better than existing alternatives, unmatched in convenience. ("Paper bags from the grocery store fucking suck," complained one person who would ostensibly be in support of such environmental regulations on r/ZeroWaste.) And where plastic bag bans have gone, plastic straw bans have soon followed: Oregon, Colorado, and New York have all banned the turtle-killers, leaving consumers stuck with paper straws that disintegrate mid-drink. It all amounts to what National Review's Noah Rothman has appropriately termed "the war on things that work."
It's a bit ironic that the environmentalist left has chosen to fight a battle against the tools that allow food to be made and enjoyed. Their efforts amount to a concerted attack on culinary pleasure, especially that which is produced at home.
High-end food world, after all, suffers no delusions that it's the province of conservatives; most food writers are avowed liberals and most food sites assume they're speaking to—and policing—their good progressive ilk. "I'm a vegan landlord," read one Bon Appetit headline from earlier this year, "and I banned my tenants from cooking meat." Food columnist J. Kenji López-Alt recently reflected in The New Yorker about "kitchen-bro culture," and beloved recipe writer Alison Roman had her column placed on "temporary leave" by The New York Times after making purportedly tone-deaf remarks about Chrissy Teigen and Marie Kondo, two minority women. (Roman was never given the opportunity to revive her column at the Times, but has since migrated to Substack.) The Gimlet Media podcast Reply All, which attempted to chronicle the workplace abuses from on high at Bon Appetit—commenting on toxic leadership within kitchen culture more broadly—ended up an ouroboros eating its own tail after its hosts were ousted for…allegedly fostering a toxic workplace and opposing union demands.
At high-end restaurants around Manhattan and Brooklyn, where I live, it is not uncommon to see menu copy referencing extra charges explicitly added to the bill to pay employees a "living wage" or so that the restaurant can provide health care to their staff; Astor Wines, where I order most of my liquor, touts that it's "worker-owned"; even posh Eleven Madison Park—which boasts a price tag of $365 for its multicourse menu—went plant-based back in 2022. The food world is frequently consumed by discussing the ethics of using animal products, the ethics of factory farming, the ethics of chefs de cuisine berating sauciers in pursuit of excellence (or at least uniformity).
But leftists, who seem to want ever-present access to not only good restaurant food, but the means of (at-home) production, don't seem to grok that these goals are in tension with another goal: remaking the main site of energy use and production in the home—the kitchen. The two can't coexist, at least not in their present form, and home cooks like myself grow bitter when our tools are taken away before our budgets allow us to replace them with better alternatives.
Consider, for example, induction cooktops, which use electromagnets (not fossil fuels) and result in faster heating times than their electric counterparts. Many users report lower energy bills when compared with gas and electric, not to mention the compounding fact that induction doesn't heat up the rest of the kitchen when in use. But the catch, at least at present, is that they require entirely retrofitting your kitchen—you need special cookware in order to cook with induction, and the models themselves remain expensive enough to be out of reach for many.
Many European households and eateries—comprising 35.9 percent of the total market share worldwide—have switched to induction stoves, with American professional chefs like Le Bernardin's Eric Ripert following suit. The tech is increasingly favored by developers of luxury buildings in places like New York that have banned gas.
This is the story, after all, of so much technological advancement: A new innovation is adopted first by the well-off, then the rest. Competition drives prices down. Demand increases, so more makers enter the space. Eventually, the superior technology wins out, and the stockings become accessible even to factory girls (to use a Schumpeterism).
In June, the New York Post reported that the New York City Department of Environmental Protection was drafting new rules that would force city pizzerias, which frequently use coal-burning pizza ovens, to slash carbon emissions by 75 percent. "This is an unfunded mandate and it's going to cost us a fortune not to mention ruining the taste of the pizza totally destroying the product," one angry restaurateur told the Post.
Though only a few dozen establishments are affected by this mandate, many pizzeria owners were hit hard by both the first (March 2020) and second (December 2020) rounds of COVID orders, which barred them from allowing indoor dining; they certainly don't have excess funds lying around to retrofit their kitchens.
When they ban the products you enjoy using, big government types are forcing you to accept worse-quality goods, telling you it's time to take one for the team. Your sacrifice theoretically results in deliverance from environmental horrors. But it doesn't really work that way in practice because big government types so frequently fail to factor in the unintended consequences of their actions.
Despite the New York Times' gaslighting, people are coming for your stoves. And they're also coming for your dishwasher, your showerhead, your leaf blower, and your plastic straws. No single crusade is enough to get most people fired up, but each makes life a little worse and a little more expensive, in pursuit of ever-elusive environmental goals. Environmentalists would be wise to let people make their own decisions instead, as a matter of principle and as a matter of pragmatism, since people so frequently end up doing good—just on their own timeline.
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Did they give up on the morning links?
Can't sustain the lynx without ENB.
What happened to ENB? I've been out a couple weeks.
Got buried in the mud at Burning Man.
Suspended until Monday under new management. Yglesias and Masnick hardest hit.
FBI told Reason to cut back on the seditious comments.
Seriously, is ENB gone?
Out on maternity leave
How long does an abortion take? Or is she looking forward to the genital mutilation and child pimpin?
Well it warms my heart to see that the monotreme line continues to thrive.
WHERE DO WE EVEN GO TO COMMENT!?
where is Shelly Miscavige?
Has anyone checked the Mariana Trench?
It's about control not the enviroment
This.
Who did you vote for, Liz?
IT WAS STRATEGIC.
Who did you vote for, Liz?
Which is all that matters to Trump-tards.
Hey, Liz is attacking environmentalists and the NY Times here. You should be swooning instead.
You were banned for posting links to kiddie porn.
Which is all that matters to
Trump-tardspeople who don’t want to be subjects of the state.Remember that turd lies. It's what turd does,
Godsdamnit, it's impossible to hit the "cancel comment" button on mobile without flagging someone's comment if it indented enough.
You need to learn how to use your phone. Your claim you can't cancel a comment without flagging someone's comment is 100%v FALSE.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Why are you ignoring the inflation article buddy? Just like you ran away from your heritage aca gaslighting lol.
The little bout of pandemic caused inflation has just about run its course. Yeah, your spittin' tobacky went up. Live with it.
Wait, I thought you blamed Trump for Covid, its spending, and its consequences. Weird.
The new instructions from Pluggo's mothership came out.
You mean the virus not only causes disease, it has the power to cause inflation? Please explain how the virus does that without humans enacting terrible policy and making terrible decisions that lead to inflation.
Fauci succeeded beyond his wildest evil dreams with gain of function.
The little bout of pandemic caused inflation has just about run its course.
Care to try that again?
It wasn’t the virus or the pandemic. It was the actions of the government overlords of shutting everything down and then sending out stimulus checks to almost everybody.
Pretty sure inflation is going up again too.
I was referring to the inflation the pedophile referenced.
But, yes, evermore government overlord deficit spending and the monetization of that spending by the Federal Reserve is causing inflation to return.
It’s just transitory.
And profit!
No faggot. You’re missing the point. Many Reason staffers voted for this. The same way you did. Jus like how you vote to make pedophilia legal.
Liz is one of the writers I find most consistently 'libertarian' in her views (and by that, I mean, like the rest of us do, that it agrees with my version the most). But anyway, here's what she said in that 'how will you vote article:
"I live in New York City, so my vote thankfully does not matter one iota in an ocean of progressives. I will not vote this year, since Jorgensen has squandered her opportunity to win libertarianism new converts—despite this botched pandemic reminding us that politicians are incompetent, self-serving, or both. Trump has been a tremendously terrible president if you care about immigration and free trade, and Biden is just a pliant, unprincipled career politician (and former drug warrior) who will do nothing for freedom. No to everyone."
Can't fault her for that stance, personally.
Can’t fault her for that stance, personally.
Her comment is unflinchingly realistic. Biden jumping around on the drug war is proof that he is unprincipled.
When has he jumped around on the drug war? When has he ever been against it?
When it's Republicans 'pouncing' on his crackhead, POS son?
That's not flip-flopping, that's hypocrisy.
He didn't fault her for her stance, he asked, and "It doesn't matter whether I stand, sit, or lie down." is kinda quintessentially the opposite of having a stance.
Trump has been a tremendously terrible president if you care about immigration and free trade, and Biden is just a pliant, unprincipled career politician (and former drug warrior) who will do nothing for freedom.
Regarding immigration, New York and Chicago residents have become very Trumpy in their views on Immigration as of late.
I'll not hold my breath waiting for Chicago residents to stop voting for the very Democrats who make their lives miserable. Far too many of the twits would vote for Stalin or Hitler if they simply had a "D" after their names.
Well, as long as Stalin and Hitler promised more free stuff, public union support, and to stick it to Whitey.
Got to get rid of the democrats.
FBJ government today just came out and said it's all NY's fault. They aren't handling immigration right.
I do appreciate her slamming Jorgensen.
Agreed.
What ENB calls “immigration” and “free trade” is neither. She wants progressives in charge.
Dry true. Open borders isn’t immigration. It’s disaster.
Joe and Hunter doing business:
https://twitter.com/17ThankQ/status/1702683870456390046
Evidence of Joe negotiating a UN position for some of Hunters clients.
https://justthenews.com/accountability/political-ethics/thuhunter-biden-delivered-meeting-father-business-associates-inside
Walls…closing…in
I’m not getting my hopes up, but…god damn there’s a lot more evidence of corruption than I could have imagined. It’s going to take a lot of mental gymnastics to make this go away.
Deny deny deny is the cannonball of gymnastics.
But can Joe stick the landing?
Fortunately for them, they're all Olympic gold medalists in mental gymnastics.
Or do they just think they're Olympic gold medalists in mental gymnastics?
"It’s going to take a lot of mental gymnastics to make this go away."
After checking over to see what people that oppose this possible impeachment are saying, the main conclusion they are coming to is: there is zero evidence being presented and republicans are making this entire thing up from whole cloth.
There are no notarized confessions proving Joe accepted bribes.
Republicans and their crazy "Don't Say Bribe" campaigns!
Bribes only count if it goes directly to the left pocket of a Democrat. Their grand daughters are all international business savants.
notarized confessions
From convicted felons.
Wut?
God damn you are stupid.
I’m would love to see Darth Brandon aggressively cross examined.
There's is so much corruption with Biden that is like dazzle paint camouflage: Americans will never be able to focus on it.
The charges against Trump were a complete lie, but by making them about one very specific action, Democrats planted them firmly in the minds of Americans.
Yes. Leftist fuckwits need to be exterminated. For the good of the planet.
I'll simplify it for the US: Factio Democratica delenda est.
We need more people to arrive at that correct conclusion.
"Gas ranges allow a greater control over temperature and heat..."
The people who are responsible for these rules do not care about that. Your concerns about having a well cooked meal is an unimportant decadent luxury to their imposing their morality on you.
We have empowered a whole legion of puritanical zealots who are unencumbered by sentiment towards mercy or forgiveness.
The people who make the rules have private chefs that cook in commercial gas kitchens.
Which are exempted from the rules. *
* Except in San Fran
Rules are for the plebs.
Nor do they care about whether you can heat your house when it is freezing cold outside, or cool it when it is hot, or escape from an impending forest fire when you can't charge your mandated electric car. They don't care about your life, they only care about being "green," and they view humanity as a pestilence. Except for themselves, of course. If there's a 0.1% chance you might make them sick, you'll be forced to wear a mask that doesn't work, and take an experimental shot you don't want, and get your nostrils scraped and your business shut down.
The people who are behind all this are narcissists and narcissists don't care about anybody else, they have their own agenda and when in positions of power do a lot of harm.
You'll own nothing and you'll be happy.
Here, eat some more bug loaf.
(OTTMAR EDENHOFER, UN IPCC OFFICIAL): "Basically it’s a big mistake to discuss climate policy separately from the major themes of globalization. The climate summit in Cancun at the end of the month is not a climate conference, but one of the largest economic conferences since the Second World War... First of all, developed countries have basically expropriated the atmosphere of the world community. But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy. Obviously, the owners of coal and oil will not be enthusiastic about this. One has to free oneself from the illusion that international climate policy is environmental policy. This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy anymore, with problems such as deforestation or the ozone hole.
Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti, made the revealing admission in a meeting with Democratic Washington Gov. Jay Inslee’s climate director in May. A Washington Post reporter accompanied Chakrabarti to the meeting for a magazine profile published Wednesday: “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal, is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all...Do you guys think of it as a climate thing? Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing,” he added.
First, they came for my neighbors gas powered lawn equipment, but I don't care, because I rent.
Then, they came for my neighbor's gas powered water heater and furnace, but my place has a heat pump.
Now, they're coming for my gas stove . . .
Odd, that none of those things were taken.
Just replaced by less polluting devices.
Why do you feel a need to lie about it?
'...less polluting devices'
Sure, he's the one lying about it.
Odd that people such as you have no problem when other's liberty and freedom are taken from them.
You sound like you support Hochul's prison camps.
Electric devices are not, in fact, less polluting.
Vendicar is too stupid and delusional to understand that.
You'll get your gas stove and 5 gallon shower head back when green hydrogen replaces natural gas and you go water-negative.
“Just one problem: The study was terribly flawed.”
No it wasn’t. It delivered exactly the result the Democrats and environmentalists wanted.
Wait. You mean your kitchen isn't a hermetically sealed room without any ventilation at all?
Not even close. Hell, I wish it was a little more "hermetically sealed" when wintor rolls in...
And sealed with painters plastic sheets. Which also have vocs
At what point are you going to say, "This far and no further"? Before or after they take your guns?
I mean they didn't even reach that point with lockdowns or Australian "quarantine" camps.
Dunno. Though, as a New Mexican, I have recently learned that "they're coming to take your guns" is, in fact, a hard line. Or maybe not, since I didn't start shooting.
“Or maybe not, since I didn’t start shooting.”
People open-carrying at those protests sent a pretty clear message, I think.
Was Alec Baldwin there?
If he had been, someone would have "accidentally" been shot.
“Before or after they take your guns?”
I think, for some people, that moment will be happening while they try and take the guns. Like, at the door type stuff.
Let’s agree to disagree.
Ok, who’s version of reality do we live in if we “agree to disagree”
Mine.
Ok, then yeah, no.
Again;
Gov.: OK, let's agree to disagree.
Citizen: ... o-kay... ? BLAM! BLAM! BLAM!
Citizen's Wife: Why'd you shoot her?!
Citizen: I thought that's what we agreed to! She was here to take my guns; I disagreed that I was going to have to shoot her if she did! That was the agreement!
Hahahahaha, nice. 😀
People who are fixated on guns have some serious mental health issues.
People who are fixated on banning guns have some serious mental health issues.
The same people fixated on banning guns are also fixated on controlling everyone else.
Yes, your fixation on guns is pathological.
Guns are protected by the Constitution. Gas stoves, not so much.
But, good analogy jerryskids!
"Gas ranges allow cooks a greater degree of control over heat,"
I would have thought that an electrical range should be able to give the cook a greater degree of control over heat. Perhaps not with the designs currently available for home use on the market, but potentially electric control should be finer grained than gas.
Well, you would be wrong again, but we're used to that.
Standard (affordable) Electric ranges are based on resistance heating an electrically conductive coil, which then retains that heat, and is able to transfer it to a pot or pan through both conduction and radiation. Due to the lag in time that it takes for the coil to heat up, and that the mechanism for it cooling down is just natural heat shedding, it takes a much longer time to adjust the temperatures at your cook surface.
There's a very good reason that for all of the commercial kitchens I've designed, 0% have included an electric range or oven.
I like electric oven and gas top.
Yes, but if you use an electric oven, you may have to preheat it for a long time. I monitored the temperature in my reasonably high-end electric oven for two hours. After the initial preheat, the temperature varied by 25 degrees above or below the set point over the next hour. Maybe I got a bad one, or maybe it's just physics. It takes time (and energy!!) to get all that steel up to a stable temperature. I'm not sure how that helps the environment. Now, when possible, we often use our much smaller convection oven.
Me too, but only because I've had trouble lighting gas ovens.
You beat me to it. Physics!
Actually, physics says “Electric, gas, nuclear or other, the fastest, most controlled way to manipulate the temperature is to use low-mass cookware and move it up or down the thermal gradient as quickly as possible.”
I can’t see the statement behind the gray box. When I click the “show username” I can see that the issue isn’t “Correct according to physics or culinary arts or taste or not?”, mtrueman is fundamentally and morally wrong before the question gets asked. He doesn’t give a shit about the or a right answer or what people think, he’s just here to torment people.
" he’s just here to torment people."
I'm your guilty conscience. You torment yourself. I merely set things in motion.
See Minadin's reply below.
"You beat me to it. Physics!"
Q: What did the physics teacher say to the chattering students as he entered the class room?
A: Science!
See Minadin's reply below.
"Standard Electric ranges are based on resistance heating an electrically conductive coil, which then retains that heat"
I wouldn't suggest using a standard electric range to allow fine control over temperature. Something I noticed as a lad was that getting something closer to a heat source will make it warmer, and further away will make it cooler. So my proposal would be to fit a standard electrical range with an electrical powered computer controlled device that would raise the distance between the food and heat source for quick cooling and lower it for quick heating. The height can subsequently be automatically adjusted as the standard heat source 'catches up' to the desires of the chef. It's more complicated than the typical gas range but it should give the chef the instantaneous control over temperature so important to fine cooking.
And it’s not like hot oil would get spilled or anything.
One should always be careful of hot oil in the kitchen. In fact anything hot can be hazardous. My advice is to be very careful when adding water or wet solids to preheated oil. It can splatter and cause painful burns.
Did you just learn this?
Learn what?
You're like one of those middle management types assigned by corporate. You think you're super smart. But you have no clue how the company product works.
"You’re like one of those middle management types assigned by corporate. "
Thanks for that. Always nice to see such positive feedback.
So, you just leave the coils on full power, whether you need that much heat or not?
People are always amazed when I tell them how much more efficient gas heat is than electric, and you've just cut what little efficiency remained for electric by half or more.
Not only that, you've removed one of the two forms of heat transfer available to you with an electric range. I don't think that this thought experiment is going the way you planned.
"So, you just leave the coils on full power,"
I think that would be unduly wasteful.
"how much more efficient gas heat is than electric, and you’ve just cut what little efficiency remained for electric by half or more. "
The question was how to afford the cook fine grained control over temperature with electrical equipment. The price you pay is more complexity, more inefficiency. I said as much in the original comment.
" you’ve removed one of the two forms of heat transfer available to you with an electric range. I don’t think that this thought experiment is going the way you planned."
Include a switch to choose either using both forms of heat transfer, or for times when fine grained control is essential, go over to the food elevator contraption. Best of both worlds with a flick of a switch. Granted complexity issues here too.
Keep digging.
Awwwwwwww,,, Poor Baby....
You haven't provided a rebuttal, just a personal attack. At least try to come up with an argument!
Well, you’re wrong.
Adjustments to the temperature on an electric burner suck because it takes time for them to take effect. With gas the effects of the adjustments are instantaneous. For example if you want to drop the heat on an electric burner because you don't want something to overcook, you'll have to remove the pan while the burner cools down which is a pain in the ass, especially in a commercial kitchen. Not so with gas.
Nothing’s worse than a burnt Cuban sandwich.
What about burning the hell out of meat because someone orders it differently than you?
Or burning horse meat for your ex because she likes horses?
That might be an indication one’s a psychopath, but not guaranteed.
What are you guys trying to do, get muted?
I'll behave sir.
A list update would be nice.
"Adjustments to the temperature on an electric burner suck because it takes time for them to take effect"
It's the temperature of the food in the pan that's germane, rather than the temperature of the electric burner. Adjusting the temperature by raising or lowering the pan, putting it closer or further away from the burner, should also do the trick. A combination of slower adjustments to the temperature of the burner and quicker adjustments to the height of the pan with the food may give the chef the fine grained control given by gas burning ranges.
What a brilliant idea! You should patent this.
Patent the idea that putting something closer to a heat source will make it warmer? I'm sure it's already been patented.
Maybe patented, but not in production. What can we ascertain from that?
My wife after switching from an electric stove to a gas stove in our remodeled kitchen.
"It's nice to eat really hot food again."
You obviously don't cook.
Great, so a much more complicated product that doesn't exist would help. That's really useful.
Or you could just use a gas stove because it is simple, it works, and it's not actually a problem.
" That’s really useful."
You could also cook over burning yak dung if you prefer. Lots of people do, and I've done it myself. Incidentally, yak dung burns cool and slow. You say you want to generate a lot of heat quickly? Goat droppings. Granted, goat shit is a lot more expensive than yak, but when you're caramelizing onions, yak turds just won't do. You can't go wrong with goat shit.
The people who think banning gas grills will save the environment or prevent asthma are also wrong.
Yes, they are wrong because you - a know nothing - nobody - says so.
The world is laughing at your stupidity.
They are wrong because I'm really dumb and said something? I'm not sure how that works, but I'll take it. Just babbling causing other people to be wrong - that seems like a good superpower to have.
"I would have thought that an electrical range should be able to give the cook a greater degree of control over heat."
WTF?
Are you an adult?
No, he's mBSman.
"Are you an adult?"
Worse than that. I'm an adult with life long usage of gas ranges under my belt.
Truly amazing.
Are you truly easily amazed?
You must have stopped reading before the end of the article. Liz contradicts this statement later in the article when she admits that modern electric induction cooktops do allow quick fine grained control of heat, and that they do offer many other benefits over gas, including operating cost and not heating up the kitchen. She does claim without any examples that induction cooktops are more expensive. I have a fairly inexpensive induction cooktop that I would choose over any gas or old 19th century style electric range. Liz does state correctly that you will have to replace your current pots and pans if they are not compatible with induction cooking. The real problem with induction cooktops at least in places like NYC is that they require more electrical power than most of the NYC apartment buildings can provide without major rewiring.
Perceptive of you to have suspected I hadn't read the piece. I skimmed it and only after reading the comment about induction ovens did I read it with some attention. The author seems to really want us to use gas, not surprising in a Koch funded mag. I hadn't been aware of induction ovens and have always taken gas as a given.
"The real problem with induction cooktops at least in places like NYC is that they require more electrical power than most of the NYC apartment buildings can provide without major rewiring."
What? Problem? That's a plus. Green new deal!!!$$!!!
No it doesn't. Electric burners take more time to heat up and thus also take time to cool down making it difficult to control the heat.
Gas on the other hand is nearly instant control of the heat. Another plus is finer heat control. Chefs know this.
The author writes glowingly on induction cooktops. These are different from the electric ovens you are used to. They seem to be growing in popularity, even among professional chefs. And don't forget, Green New Deal!!!$$$!!!
"The tech is increasingly favored by developers of luxury buildings in places like New York that have banned gas."
So, they've become increasingly popular in Europe and other places that have banned or limited gas cooking appliances in the name of climate change activism. When they truly become equal or better, they will become the market leader naturally, without government intervention.
I'm not denying that there are some benefits to induction, but there are also many drawbacks that others have pointed out (including the author, above). People in the comments are saying 'oh, but you can get a cheaper version!' yeah, a countertop one. You still have your stove sitting over in the kitchen with the oven attached, taking up room. Now the countertop induction plate is taking up a bunch of the limited countertop real estate in your 700sf apartment. You haven't solved anything, you made the kitchen more cluttered and less useful.
"So, they’ve become increasingly popular in Europe and other places that have banned or limited gas cooking appliances in the name of climate change activism. "
It seems they've become popular in China too. Gas is not banned there but it has to be imported from unstable regions over tenuous supply lines. The induction tops are small and less than $100. How good they are, I don't know, but many families use the individual, hot plate sized, cooktops.
"Now the countertop induction plate is taking up a bunch of the limited countertop real estate in your 700sf apartment. You haven’t solved anything, you made the kitchen more cluttered and less useful."
All your problems could be solved by living in an apartment bigger than 700sf. Most Chinese already have figured this out.
If it really was all that bad, you would be writing from Florida, wouldn't you?
"Eleven Madison Park—which boasts a price tag of $365 for its multicourse menu . . . "
Really? we are expected to give even one solitary damn about that?
Everyone needs to calm down. Look, you won’t need a gas (or electric) stove to eat the bugs, so don’t worry about it. You probably won’t even be able to fit one in your pod anyway.
"Look, you won’t need a gas (or electric) stove to eat the bugs"
You probably will. All the bugs I've eaten, beondegi in Korea, chapulines in Mexico, have been cooked over some heat source.
The only person I know to have eaten bugs raw was an ex-SAS friend of mine who ate raw ants as a part of his training. Part of the equipment he was given before being released alone in a remote Australian desert was a packet of boiled sweets. He would find an ant hill, briefly pop the candy in his mouth to make it wet and sticky, then place it on a leaf in the ant hill. Once it was swarming with ants, he'd pick up the candy, pop it into his mouth, suck off the ants (but not in a sexy way) chew, swallow and repeat.
Incidentally part of the training was drinking his own piss. His advice: wait until the piss cools off. Warm piss tastes much worse.
Gas stoves aren't being banned. They will simply be replaced by gas stoves that are more efficient and less polluting.
Why do Conservatives and Libertarians lie about them being banned?
What is this perpetual need among Libertarians and Conservatives to lie with their every breath?
It’s not happening, and it’s a good thing that it is.
The Law of Salutary Contradiction
Which brings us to the Law of Salutary Contradiction, whose formulation is: “That’s not happening and it’s good that it is.” While the Law of Merited Impossibility applies to the future, this one is about the present. It’s what the ruling class immediately switches to after what they insisted would “never” happen is happening before everyone’s eyes.
Is the NSA spying on Tucker Carlson? That’s an insane conspiracy theory … which is also warranted by Tucker’s treasonous contacts with Russian officials as he seeks an interview with Putin.
Is the Biden Administration inviting in illegal immigrants, then putting them on military planes and shipping them to the heartland? Absolutely not … and these future Nobel Prize winners deserve their shot at the American Dream.
Once you learn to recognize this pattern, you see it everywhere. It is the cornerstone of ruling class rhetoric in the current year.
Yeah, right. Just like they want to ban certain speech, like they want to ban your right to live where you want, they want to ban certain foods you can eat ie: meat.
The truth is: it's about total control of humanity. Total and complete control.
Bull.
The law bans gas-powered stoves, furnaces and propane heating and effectively encourages the use of climate-friendly appliances such as heat pumps and induction stoves in most new residential buildings across the state. It requires all-electric heating and cooking in new buildings shorter than seven stories by 2026, and for taller buildings by 2029.
See, here's the semantics gamesmanship being played.
The law says "b. No person shall permit the combustion of any substance that emits 25 kilograms or more of carbon dioxide per million British thermal units of energy, as determined by the United States energy information administration, within such building."
But burning natural gas releases 53kg of CO2 per million BTUs. Propane releases 63kg per million BTUs.
So--technically--the law does not *prohibit* gas appliances. If you can manipulate the physics so that burning natural gas or propane releases more than 50% less CO2, then you can keep your CO2.
So this law doesn't prohibit gas appliances any more than a 200mpg requirement on automobiles (while still complying with all safety laws) would ban gasoline-powered cars. "You just need to make them more efficient!"
And it ignores the CO2 released by the power plant that makes the electric stove work. No, it can't be solar power when you are cooking in the evening after coming home from work. No, it can't be wind power, unless you're OK with frequently eating cold suppers. No, the wind and solar cannot be backed up by batteries - no one with any idea of the battery capacity, cost, or raw materials required can think it's possible to use batteries to back up the grid for more than a few minutes while a fossil-fuel plant spools up - but these have to be kept warm on standby by burning fossil fuel, or it will be many hours to start them.
It could be emissions-free nuclear power, but the same environmentalists who wail about carbon emissions have made it impossible to build more nukes in the USA,.
Yeah, the processed bug loaf will be served cold.
You'll own nothing and you'll be happy.
Lying Jeffy hardest hit:
“MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: Detransitioner Luka Hein takes legal action against the University of Nebraska Medical Center for manipulating her into a double mastectomy at age 16.”
https://twitter.com/Liberty_Ctr/status/1702077958179975516
But... I've heard that doesn't happen!
Now they will tell you that you are only hearing about it because it's so rare.
To be fair, Mike and Jeff vehemently fought the idea that "bottom" surgery has taken place within the US, but Mike conceded that "top" surgery has been done.
He then would try to argue that conservatives never got up in arms about underage girls getting boob jobs (to make them bigger).
Kinda hard to be optimistic when the end of the road is the "The term 'sex' as used in the sixties clearly meant orientation and gender identity." and "What is a woman? I'm not a biologist." court.
It is hilarious that Republicans just can't bring themselves to accept the definition of a word like "gender"
The world is laughing at your willful ignorance.
I’m sure that are getting huge laughs . Do you know anything about other cultures?
Who said anything about Republicans?
It's pretty clear that even if the world was laughing, you wouldn't know, and you're just projecting. Some might weep or pity you but really it's more of a silent relief as the demons invoked by your own specific brand of retardation and doubling down on your retardation, drag you back into the immoral corners of obscurity... again.
No, the trouble is that most people do not go along with other's mental illness. They urge them to seek help.
Trans people are mentally ill.
Why is Luka Hein even talking about this kulturwar hurr durr stuff? Doesn't her *checks her back story* tits hurt when xe thinks about this stuff?
Ugh.
Laursen will still obfuscate and claim it isn't actually happening.
It didn't occur in the last 15s so he is right.
The Journal of the American Medical Association published a study Wednesday estimating that 48,019 Americans underwent “gender-affirming surgeries” from 2016 to 2020, and 3,678 of them underwent surgery between ages 12 and 18.
In the study, Columbia University researchers estimated that 3,215 of those minors underwent “breast/chest surgery” and 405 of them underwent “genital surgery.” Meanwhile, 350 underwent “other cosmetic procedures.”
Republican voters very leery of Tim Scott as he plays race card:
‘That guy isn’t one of us,’”
.
Matt Schlapp, a Republican who’s being sued for allegedly groping a male campaign staffer, suggested to Terris that Scott is gay:
Scott is not gay, DeCasper told me, and nobody who knows him suggested otherwise. But the rumor mill is lazy, and the “joke” about the senator’s sexuality still gets repeated. Early last year, for example, Matt Schlapp, the head of the Conservative Political Action Conference, asked me whom I thought Trump might choose as his 2024 running mate. When I mentioned Scott, Schlapp replied: “You think he picks a gay vice president?” (Incidentally, Schlapp, who is married with five kids, was later accused of unwanted groping by a male staffer on Herschel Walker’s Senate campaign. He has denied the allegations.)
https://news.yahoo.com/plot-thickens-around-gop-candidate-194812823.html
This is a weird lane you've gotten into. I know why your focus is on Scott. The same reason you bring up any black conservative.
Gotta keep them on the Democrat plantation.
Did you copy/paste the wrong thing? You start your post talking about race and then bulk of your post is about sexuality.
Follow up from yesterday:
Sen. Tim Scott of South Carolina has a theory about why people are drawing attention to the fact that he's never been married.
.
"It's like a different form of discrimination or bias," the 2024 GOP presidential candidate told the Washington Post. "You can't say I'm Black, because that would be terrible, so find something else that you can attack."
.
Scott also said other GOP contenders may be seeking to "sow seeds of doubt" about his campaign and finding a way to say "that guy isn't one of us" with the insinuations about his personal life.
https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-scott-responds-gay-rumors-unmarried-black-2024-campaign-2023-9
I'm posting because the TrumpTards here played the race card with Herschel Walker (I said I would not vote for him).
I did'nt vote for Walker because he is historically stupid, by the way.
Don't say gay.
Weird. He was addressing the alt right media show The View.
https://nypost.com/2023/05/23/tim-scott-fires-back-at-the-views-racially-charged-attacks-my-life-disproves-the-lies-of-the-radical-left/
Matt Schlapp is on the View?
Scott seems like the most sane Republican candidate, actually.
Figured out shrike may be Joe Biden.
BIDEN: "...particularly for African Americans and Hispanic workers and veterans — you know, the workers without high school diplomas"
Sometimes he shows us behind the veil. Everyone remembers:
"Poor kids are just as bright as white kids."
But what got nowhere near enough play was his retraction:
"Look, I misspoke about poor kids."
Anyone told FJB that ever since the military went to all volunteer, that you have to have a high school diploma, or at least a GED with waiver, to enlist and almost all officers have a minimum of a bachelor's degree.
Nice to see you haven't let go of your homophobia OR your racism.
Keep it up slugger.
They call themselves "progressives" and "anti-racists", they called Georgia's updated voting laws Jim Crow 2.0.
In reality, they are base human beings, simply filled with venom and racist vitriol to be turned on anyone with whom they disagree.
Here's a smattering of things that MSNC hosts, Washington Post and The Nation writers, and other candidates for office have said about Herschel Walker, who is running for a Senate seat to represent Georgia (against incumbent Raphael Warnock).
Imagine for one second if Fox News or the WSJ had written these statements about Mr. Warnock.
"Herschel Walker's candidacy is a white insult to Black people."
"Walker is what they think of us, and they think we’re big, ignorant, and easily manipulated. They think we’re shady or criminal. They think we’re tools to be used. The Walker campaign exists as a political minstrel show: a splashy rendition of what white Republicans think Black people look and sound like."
"I make a hard distinction between Black conservatives and these tokens" – referring to Senator Tim Scott (R-SC) and Walker – "who are out here right now, shucking and jiving for their white handlers."
"Walker has positioned himself into being a useful fool for those who don't have the best interests of Black people or this democracy at heart."
"[Herschel Walker's] irrelevant to the Black community, and we should treat him as such."
"Herschel Walker, the football star turned Georgia Senate candidate, is an animated caricature of a Black person drawn by white conservatives."
"Most white people in the South vote 'R' like their entire white supremacist project depends on it."
"Georgia Republicans want Walker because he's Black and Warnock is Black, and they think they can defeat Warnock in November if they can shave just a little of the Black vote..."
"Mr. Walker was merely a vessel for the G.O.P. and Mr. Trump's ambitions."
"He's a puppet on a string, and somebody's pulling those strings really good."
Not to be outdone in using racist attacks against blacks, the Democrats seem intent on racist attacks on Hispanics, too.
Democratic lawmakers and liberal media outlets alike have responded to the Republican Party's gains with Latino voters by attacking Hispanic Republicans. Flores's opponent in November, Rep. Vicente Gonzalez (D., Texas), argued in June that he is more qualified than Flores because he "wasn't born in Mexico." Weeks later, Arizona representative Rubén Gallego (D.) said a female Hispanic Republican running for Congress in the state was not sufficiently Latina because she took her husband's last name.
The New York Times, meanwhile, said Flores's win marked the "Rise of the Far-Right Latina," citing the Republican's support for religiosity, strong borders, and traditional values. A Texas political blog that has received campaign funds from Gonzalez also attacked Flores last month, referring to the congresswoman as "Miss Frijoles," "Miss Enchiladas," and a "cotton pickin' liar."
"Who does this Mayra Flores think she is? Somebody said she was crowned Miss Frijoles 2022 in San Benito," Texas political blogger Jerry McHale, who has received $1,200 from Gonzalez's campaign, wrote on July 2. "She isn't in congressman Vicente Gonzalez's league. She isn't even in the bush leagues unless she doesn't shave her p**sy."
On a personal note: congrats to me getting a wood burning insert installed in one of my fireplaces this morning!
Piddling around with dishwasher and stove rules is a waste of time. They need to completely ban home kitchens, cooking, and food storage in favor of centralized government kitchens.
It's much more efficient to have centralized government kitchens do ALL of the cooking. It simplifies food delivery patterns, reduces food waste, and eliminates home kitchen injuries (cuts, burns, etc.).
Outlawing food storage in the home will do wonders for pest control. It's a public health issue.
When all of us need to go to the centralized kitchens to get food, the government can track and control our food consumption. This will wipe out obesity - another public health win!
Individual kitchens in homes are an outdated concept. It's practically uncivilized.
And of course bread lines are a good thing. Otherwise the rich get the food, and the poor starve to death.
And if you see bread lines you know they have bread.
Plus more time to "observe" your neighbors.
Of course bread lines are a good thing! Bernie Sanders says so!
Environmentalists Are Destroying My Kitchen
Republicans are destroying reproductive rights.
You will live in a pod with no furniture and fed a nutrient slurry through a tube. You will be free from concern or labor. Everybody else will be just a clump of cells until you get forcibly evicted by your betters from your gender-nonbinary co-dependence pod.
And the nutrient slurry will be crunchy, thanks to the crickets.
dead babies will definitely never reproduce.
More stem cells for billionaires!
And you are full of crap.
Check your sarcasm meter my friend.
Careful of running afoul of Poe's Law.
Everyone is still fairly free to reproduce if they want to.
Reason: Environmentalists Are Destroying My Kitchen and The War on Fast-Food Joints.
Also Reason: Despite the Doomsday Narrative, Global Inequality Has Significantly Declined
You will own nothing. You will eat bugs. And you will like it.
they can't take my gas stove if I glue my hand to it.
What you need to really get your political movement taken seriously is a meme of Charlton Heston one-handing a stove overhead with the caption "From my warm, super-glued dead hand".
They can have my gas stove after I beat them to death with it.
I'll need a new one at that point anyway.
I am planning a protest where I will glue thousands of electric stoves to the freeway to block traffic. What do I plan to accomplish? Nothing. I just want to glue electric ranges to asphalt.
seems to be temporarily effective and the kids love it.
How dare you resist the best intended efforts of authoritarian nanny government to protect you from yourself, and prioritize Greta's delusional anxiety over your petty freedoms.
Fun fact: FJB’s appointment to Richard Trumka, Jr. in 2021 to be a “Commissioner of the Consumer Products Safety Commission” is no other than the son of famous shitbag/president of the AFL-CIO Richard Trumka (deceased).
Hunter must have been busy that week.
The Times is the centerpiece of the propaganda division of the regime.
So what? Is there some unwritten rule stating that children of shitbags cannot work in government in a completely different line of work than their shitbag parents?
Your kitchen? Hell, try modern civilization.
Ok, since we bash Reason usually, I'll give a compliment. This was a good article. Mentioned Trump without going off the rails. Had some data, and reasoning behind it.
Of course, don't state your kid lives in a closet. Child services will show up.
'Large' closet.
If it's at least 7'-0" x 10'-0" and has a window, it counts as a bedroom* per the New York State Building Code. Though, a 700-sf apartment in NYC is unlikely to have enough extra space for a 2nd bedroom.
*(Must also contain at least 7'-6" tall ceilings, its own closet, and an operable door with a latch and a lock, despite what any realtor or rental agent may tell you. They've never opened a code book in their lives.)
Ha! In the future, 700 square feet will be the living unit for a family of 3. Singles will get 400. If they obey.
Plus Eric Adams wants her to take in a illegal alien.
400ft?
Back in the future of my kid. A single person will have 48sq ft, a communal bathroom and communal Kitchen shared by 70 people
“Not enough room? My place is two cubic meters and we only take up 1.5 cubic meters. We’ve got room for a-whole-nother two-thirds of a person!” – Bender Bending Rodriguez, circa Y3K
But he had a nice closet.
Pretty sure my single person room in the barracks was around 700 sq ft with a shared common area and bathroom.
"If it’s at least 7′-0″ x 10′-0″ and has a window, it counts as a bedroom* per the New York State Building Code."
Solitary cells in Riker's Island are comparable in size. I guess any smaller would be cruel and unusual punishment.
Ahhh but you can leave new your... For now
...because - That's what [Na]tional So[zi]alist[s] do....
The most overused and meaningless word in science today is sustainable. My major Prof and our department head wouldn't even allow us to use it in our writing. Define sustainable. Everyone Will give you a different meaning, often at odds with other meanings, and defined to be used for advocacy rather than actual scientific measurement. Depending on how I define it in my writings I could show that any destructive process is more 'sustainable' than more efficient, less energy intensive. Next time you read an article with the word sustainable in it, realize it is more likely it's advocacy rather than actual science.
“I could show that any destructive process is more ‘sustainable’ than more efficient, less energy intensive. ”
Could you be a little more specific? An example, maybe?
“Next time you read an article with the word sustainable in it, realize it is more likely it’s advocacy rather than actual science.”
It’s more engineering than advocacy or science. Engineering is all about envisioning a project and getting it working and to keep working. Considerations of sustainability are fundamental to the enterprise. Or just building a house, or whatever.
Science comes down to observing, naming and measuring natural phenomena. I don’t think anything in nature is sustainable, the sun is due to become a red giant in the next 4 billion years or so, and the planet will be cooked to a cinder. So, keep that in mind.
Coal is more economically sustainable than solar. There's your example dipshit. Sustainable is an ambiguous buzzword that most self respecting scientist (and engineers) avoid. The ones using it tend to either be using buzzwords to get grants or pushing advocacy.
" Sustainable is an ambiguous buzzword that most self respecting scientist (and engineers) avoid. The ones using it tend to either be using buzzwords to get grants or pushing advocacy."
Use of the word may have become taboo among the self respecting, but the concept behind the sounds that make the word has value. Building a house, for example, you have to take into account the capacity to sustain damage by earthquakes, water, winds etc. That's only the beginning. Sustainability has to be a consideration in choosing the site, the materials, plumbing, pretty much everything.
These builders just might be self respecting enough to avoid using the word sustainability but it's there, nevertheless, in all their work.
"Coal is more economically sustainable than solar. "
Economics is not science. It is not even engineering. It is, to borrow your words, pushing advocacy.
Define sustainable
To have the capacity to keep going. From the dictionary. Think of the sustain pedal on a piano, it makes the note sound longer than it otherwise would. When you're building a house, you want to keep that sustain pedal depressed as far as resources at hand allow.
And economics by that definition meets sustainable criteria. If something isn't economical cannot keep going. Sustainable is a weasel word. Most scientists avoid it. BTW how many peer reviewed articles have you written? How many times have you served as peer editor? At the risk of appeal to authority I've done both of those things multiple times.
"And economics by that definition meets sustainable criteria."
Sustainable? I thought you took great pains to avoid this weasel word. Now that it's convenient, it pops up multiple times in your comments. How disingenuous. What happened to your self-respect?
"I’ve done both of those things multiple times."
Good for you. But along the way you've lost your self respect.
Engineering and economics are both science. Basically, all things come down to physics only the uneducated try to divorce science from other professions, such as engineering and economics. BTW economics is far more scientific than the other so called social sciences.
Is economics measurable? Check. Can inferences be made from these measurements? Check. Can these inferences be tested? Check. So, therefore economics is a science.
BTW two out of three definitions of economics per Oxford dictionary, refers to economics as a science.
Natural phenomena. Buying and selling adds human consciousness - emotions, desires, fears, beliefs etc to the mix. So, not science.
"Engineering and economics are both science. "
No, science is science, engineering is engineering, and economics, sociology, linguistics etc are humanities, or social sciences. The study of human interaction rather than natural phenomena.
You are so uneducated that it hurts watching you try and make an educated counterargument.
Many take pleasure in reading my comments. Especially the uneducated ones.
[Abe Simpson voice]Back in my day, ‘sustainable’ meant you could rely on whatever it was to work more than 10 min. straight or 9 out of every 10 times you performed it. If you hooked it up to a power supply and it immediately drained the source and/or blew the fuses, it was unsustainable. Lost the alternator in a car once, drove from Louisiana to Chicago taking advantage of the generous return policy and swapping batteries at every local Wal-Mart. Probably could’ve gotten through Wisconsin and a good way into Canada like that. *That* was sustainable![/Abe Simpson voice]
What a whiney crock:
1) first look at the harm done (it is dismissed because of dated sources, which is a lie 5 of 9 are from the last 5 years. " living in a home with a gas stove is comparable to living in a home with a smoker. Gas stoves release pollutants so harmful that the air pollution they create would be illegal if it were outdoors, and that’s not just true when you’re actively cooking – gas stoves continue to emit harmful compounds like methane even when turned off. Beyond the adverse health impacts, those emissions are greenhouse gasses that also contribute to the climate crisis."
2. Then it is claimed you must reoutfit your kithen to use the cheaper induction stoves: the reoutfitting is having to use real steal pans instead of aluminum, which good chefs don't use anyway. I buy good steel pans at the thrift store for $2-4, and you an buy a skillet that will last forever and heat up immediately (it taks a long time4 on gas) to save time and energy for about $12.
3. The it is insiutated only the rich an afford induction stoves: I use a preowned I bought at the thrift store for $6, and you can buy a new induction stovetop, with room for 5 pans, for $150, free shipping, online. Cheaper than gas and use a lot less energy because of immediate heat.
4 The story makes the headline a lie: the author is not losing his stovetop, as it would be grandfathered in.
5. Many gourmet chefs now prefer electric to gas: here is famous tiktok wok cook Jon Kung: "“There was no altruistic intent in my decision to adopt induction. I use it because it’s better,” he said. “Induction stovetops are easier to clean, they’re more responsive, and they are just as powerful, if not more powerful, than gas. My induction burner can boil eight quarts of water within 11 minutes – it’s super fast.”
Here is Chef Chris Gelarza: "“Every international culinary competition in the world, from the Bocuse d’Or to the Culinary Olympics, is all electric,” he said. “The metric by which the international cooking community judges each other is on induction. And those are the best chefs on the planet.”
And " “Ultimately, no one’s going to come into your home with a crowbar and take your stove, just like no one’s kicking down your door and checking your house for asbestos or lead paint,” he said. “The gas stove is this generation’s equivalent of lead paint. It’s something we thought was OK, that we later found out is a hazard. And now we have an opportunity to make it right.”
Tu David Phu: no better way to sear meat
Before Chef Tu David Phu worked in the kitchens of top-tier restaurants like New York’s Daniel or San Francisco’s Acquerello or appeared on shows like Top Chef or Chefsgiving, he was a “first-generation Vietnamese American kid from Oakland who grew up food insecure”, he said. His experiences with food at both ends of the economic spectrum – from childhood in a food desert to an adulthood that has included cooking for the world’s wealthiest people –
He became familiar with induction cooking in fine dining kitchens, which he said prioritized electric stovetops because they allow for chefs to work in small spaces and with greater precision – "
This artile belongs with those that once decried reports that smoking was harmful to your health or that seat belts were a form of tyranny. I personally have both a gas stovw and an induction; I use the induction over 95% of the time because it is cleaner, healthier, and gives me preision control in seconds, thus saving me time and the world wasted and polluting energy.
So when the time comes, it's the electric chair over the gas chamber for you.
Rope is reusable, therefore sustainable.
So is piano wire.
You can recover and recast lead from bullets, too.
Funny thing, when I do an image search of all of those chefs they are in restaurants that they own and all of them use gas
Look up revealed preference
"“Induction stovetops are easier to clean, they’re more responsive, and they are just as powerful, if not more powerful, than gas. "
Can they make a pizza that will pass for the New York style coal fired one?
They are easier to clean. I will give them that.
There are limits as to what type of cookware you can use on them as well. Cast iron cookware is incompatible and I like to use any one of my four cast iron skillets.
Just try making a New York style coal fired pizza in a cast iron skillet. See how far you get.
Cast iron works on induction stoves because they are magnetic.
Just looking into these cooktops yesterday. Quite interesting. You need a flat bottomed pan, so no woks. Otherwise anything magnetic will suffice. They seem to be rather finicky and you should take care to match the size of your pan with the size of the magnet for best results.
Just so we're clear, dumb fuck, there are people here who are arguing against electric stoves, but there are also people here arguing that, just like smoking in your own home or allowing people to smoke in your restaurant or switching your incandescent bulbs to toxic fluorescent bulbs or switching out your leaded, insoluble gasoline for toxic, water soluble MTBE or cutting out your animal fats in favor of Crisco or charging consumers a soda tax for their own good or my mask protects you and your mask protects me or 100% safe and effective with no downsides or EVs are just really popular right now etc., etc., etc. you can go fuck yourself with your government mandates.
You make tons of pasta and boiled hot dogs and can't tell the difference between gas and induction except that the induction is way faster. Great! Good for you! Some of the rest of us love a cigar while standing over a hot grill and if you push hard enough, you'll force us to slam your face on the grill and make you eat the lit cigar. Unless you prefer induction because it heats up quicker. Dumb fuck.
Actually I enjoy a cigar after a long day of smoking ribs, pork butt and a pot of beans in my wood fired smoker.
The horrors!
I've made Rufus-approved pasta on my wood fired smoker, when I'm not making pork butts or ribs.
"You make tons of pasta and boiled hot dogs and can’t tell the difference between gas and induction except that the induction is way faster"
Also induction is less wasteful. I watched a youtube and was reminded of the phrase 'if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.' It refers to a gas fired kitchen. Induction is more efficient and heats the pan rather than the entire kitchen whose heat becomes so intense and can't be stood.
Which article are you quoting? The one above said nothing about "methane", among other differences.
Who spams against anti-gas stove propaganda? (Is there money in it? I could use some extra cash...)
RuffSoft: Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
I’m kind of annoyed with the article because it has that snotty tone when talking about environmentalists. Not helpful, and shows the writer’s bias.
Where does this sense of God given righteousness about gas stoves come from? It sounds like gun owners and the 2nd Amendment.
“Oh real cooks use gas!” Gotta get over this. As RuffSoft points out, the pros are going induction, so maybe this gas cultural bias can just fade away now.
And if you want to smoke a cigar to own the libs or whatever, go for it. Cigars aren't the problem, unless you are smoking methane cigars (not a real thing... just made it up).
The other thing the article doesn’t really delve into is how horrific methane is for the environment.
As NASA explains: “Methane (CH4) is a powerful greenhouse gas, and is the second-largest contributor to climate warming after carbon dioxide (CO2). A molecule of methane traps more heat than a molecule of CO2, but methane has a relatively short lifespan of 7 to 12 years in the atmosphere, while CO2 can persist for hundreds of years or more.”
We just need to move on from gas.
Lol. Your screen name is hilarious with a post like that.
You were joking, right?
The typical statist parallax:
Your extreme desire to own a gas stove is blasphemous self-righteousness. My extreme desire to purge you of your environmentally sinful ways and take gas stoves away from you and everyone else in order to save the planet and all humanity (even though the very tenets of my religion pretty overtly acknowledge that even if I did eliminate every last gas stove from the *State* of New York, it wouldn't make a lick of difference) is just noble selflessness.
Yeah!! Look what these evil environmentalists just did in Libya, California, Mexico, Florida, Nevada, Hong Kong, Shanghai and so many other places slammed by record-breaking hurricanes and floods in the past few weeks!!
Did someone send up a signal flare for the morons to come by?
Someone got the social media click engagement algorithm to work today.
Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair!
Haha.
> But for the next generation of New York cooks, that feature will be even more of a rarity.
Only if you're a peasant.
> it is not uncommon to see menu copy referencing extra charges explicitly added to the bill to pay employees a "living wage" or so that the restaurant can provide health care to their staff
You throw that menu right back in their faces and say, "Take it up with your elected officials," right?
> Many European households and eateries—comprising 35.9 percent of the total market share worldwide—have switched to induction stoves, with American professional chefs like Le Bernardin's Eric Ripert following suit.
Y'know, I've been watching Chef Jean Pierre for years. He started with gas. Then his show remodeled his kitchen, and he suddenly had an induction stove. But soon after - same remodeled kitchen, but the gas stove was back.
That was all the debate I needed on the subject. Who gives a f what the rich elite do. Watch what the real people do.
"Y’know, I’ve been watching Chef Jean Pierre for years. He started with gas. Then his show remodeled his kitchen, and he suddenly had an induction stove. But soon after – same remodeled kitchen, but the gas stove was back."
Yep. Me too.
I do have an induction hot plate. It is quite good for a few things and is far superior to a standard electric stove, but a gas flame is better overall.
Watch 100 house flipping shows on HGTV.
In 100 out of 100, the flippers will install a gigantic new gas range, and the home buyers love it.
Who are the voters demanding that gas stoves be banned?
There aren't any, at least not any who buy houses.
Home buyers love a giant gas stove because well that's what classy houses have. Like on HGTV!
Who the hell needs a 100,000 BTU cooktop? 90% of cooks probably don't.
People are just flipping lemmings. Most people have zero idea how to buy a house, so they latch onto some things they think they know. "Look, giant gas range!"
Lol. You are serious, aren’t you? Wow. Dude, change that screen name to “DoAsYoureTold”.
Haha. What a doosh.
Liz need not worry, old Chucky Schumer guaranteed her they were not coming for her gas stove!
What's that you say, he lied? LOL
No, because no one actually "came for" her gas stove, obviously.
If they ever get around to requiring electric retrofits, then there would be a big problem for a lot of people, but merely requiring electric stoves (or electric central heaters) in new builds is not that.
I'd say stop hystericizing, but that's probably your MO for a lot of things.
All those words....yet does not prove their contention
Oh, and dishwashers run longer to make them quiet
1978 dishwasher rocked the whole house
2012 you cannot tell it is running
Oh right; That's why the gov-guns had to FORCE changes. Not because people liked quieter ones in their house; It's all because the politicians who come to visit did.... /s
Governments have "police power", like it or not. They all use it, to one degree or another.
Unless you're arguing for anarchy, your objection to this is just a disagreement over policy. I would choose a less pushy government, if I had the choice. But I have been outvoted.
Thus demonstrates exactly the importance of the US Constitution. The USA is not a 'democracy' it's "police power" must be authorized by the people's law over them. There is no Constitutional Authority for the 'feds' to be regulating dishwashers.
In 1978, if your dishwasher rocked the whole house, it was because your mom had a fat ass and your carpenter was shitty.
Otherwise, the idea that your 20-yr. old, noisy 1978 dishwasher is louder than your <10 yr. old modern dishwasher because of environmental or water-use regulations strongly suggests you consume a lot of lead as a child.
BTW I disagree with the eliminationof gas stoves but this article is just a silly libertarian rant
Yes. There is no need to dishonestly imply that the government is or will soon be forcing homeowners to rip out their beloved gas stoves.
Makes me wonder what else the author is being dishonest about...
Sure, sure: Because of course 'banning' their installation is so much different than having them ripped out. Not as if building codes don't come in later and dictate those new dictations anytime someone wants to install better windows.... /s
Has anyone noticed a pattern here?
They want to eliminate gas stoves....it's for the chilluns.
They want to eliminate the ICE vehicles....it's for the chilluns.
They want to eliminate gasoline powered lawn equipment...it's for the chilluns.
They want to eliminate fire arms. It's for the chilluns.
They want to eliminate freedom of speech....it's for the chilluns.
How soon before they tell you your single family 2,000 square foot home setting on a one acre lot is an environmental threat and you need to down size and besides, no one needs more than two hundred square feet to live on. It's for the chilluns.
when they come to round up you and your family to live in a fifteen minute city just remember: it's for the chilluns.
They fly to Epstein's Island . . . it's for the - oh -
Wow. Took you long enough to notice that. How old are you?
You have a problem with thinking about the future of children?
We've trashed this planet. The least we can do is stop trashing it.
Yeah; Humanity is trash!!! /s Clean-it up says the Nazi's.
Rings a bell for some reason.
Liz, your NYC apartment sounds horrible. Your infant son is going to grow up. He will need more than a closet.
Move. NYC is not worth it.
Banning gas to reduce CO2 is a fool’s errand. Like I know why?
.
In most of the USA 50 years of climate change gave us COOLER, repeat COOLER summers
In most of the USA 50 years of climate change gave us COOLER, repeat COOLER summers
1) is this really true?
2) The land area of the U.S. is ~7% of the world's total land area. U.S. population is ~4% of the world's population.
So, FYIGM?
Where it all started https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling
Then warming.
Now just so long as the weather changes..........
The gov-gods packing 'guns' need more POWER...
I'd vote it the #2 dumbest things humans have ever entertained only out-done by the Salem witch-hunts which also are obviously making a come back.
But if it were so self-evidently money-saving, wouldn't manufacturers have already moved in that direction?
Why would they? Manufacturers only have incentive to make efficient products if consumers demand them. And you had just gone through examples of how people tend to do what is convenient for them in the moment rather than what is efficient. If people were mindful of how much water they used in a shower, they would get themselves wet, turn the water off, then lather and scrub, then turn the water back on to rinse off.
So many environmental problems come down to people not thinking that they need to care about those problems or that the problems aren't big enough to justify a moment's thought on how to mitigate them. People aren't rational. We can know that a large coke, Big Mac and fries would be bad for our health. But we might still buy and consume them because it takes less thought and time than a healthy meal would. (Plus they are loaded with simple sugars and fats and carbs that give us pleasure as we eat them, even if we will feel worse later.)
The free market can't fix environmental problems because free market economics assumes people are acting in their rational best interests. But they don't do that when it comes to many of the products they buy. Or, an individual might not be harmed by their choice of product, but someone else not involved in the transaction will be. If someone lives in a location that could benefit from expected climate change, they might think it is good to use fossil fuels for energy, so they have no incentive to make any sacrifices to use other energy sources. The people living on small islands in the Pacific, however, will still be affected by the cumulative choices of the rest of the world, however.
Invest in northern real estate (or, I suppose southern, if you're Antipodean).
It hardly matters at this point if global warming/heating/roasting/searing/scorching (just planning ahead) is happening or not, because there is precisely zero evidence that anything anyone on the planet has the political will to do will have any effect on it.
Famine and starvation are great motivators. Once those hunger pangs become unbearable, one starts to look around for someone to blame.
Lol. More will. More sacrifice. How much?
Don’t ask. We’ll let you know.
Sucker.
What environmental problem? Are you so F'En stupid to believe banning all fossil fuel will stop the weather from changing?
My goodness the climate-changes hoax is making fools out of you all. The gov-gods packing guns you can't stop worshiping is going to knock you off long before they save you from the weather changing dumb*ss.
Keep moving south and buy beachfront property. The only problem is you won’t be able to get it insured. The insurance companies believe in climate change. https://www.blackrock.com/corporate/newsroom/press-releases/article/corporate-one/press-releases/ninety-five-percent-of-global-insurers In fact they believe in *human-caused* climate change or else they wouldn’t be embedding ‘sustainability’ into their own investment strategies. “nearly half of respondents confirmed they have turned down an investment opportunity over the past 12 months due to ESG concerns”.
So Wind is now a environmental problem?
WTF; I thought the wind was going to save us all by making all the energy.
The ‘go green’ war against plant life sustenance CO2.
And don't tell me.... The "Global Warming" is going to cause another Ice Age like the Day After Movie???? lmao...
There really is nothing more stupid than an environmentalist.
Sad little fact in all of this for the greenies: for every kilo of CO2 reduction that the US + Germany + Japan + India have made in the period of 2016 to 2020, China has increased production by 1.36 kilos ( and China + Saudi Arabia + Iran have increased by 1.49 kilos).
The western style democracies are fools, and the Chinese know it.
Greater than a good induction cooktop?
Maybe not the cook she thinks she is.
Yes, generally better than the more expensive ranges which also require specific types of cookware.
Good luck using a wok correctly on an electric stove.
We can cut back on electric usage as well by limiting homes to 25A service, and outlets to 2A. I'm sure that will solve many environmental issues, particularly in the political environment. Plus think of the copper it will save!
LOL.... Right. What did you buy a car for? You got legs don't you? /s
Is the use of charcoal prohibited?