The GOP Primary Debates Are Starting Way Too Early
At best, tonight's debate is a glorified preseason football game—an unwatchable spectacle that no one ought to enjoy.
![A wide shot of a Republican presidential debate stage A wide shot of a Republican presidential debate stage | JIM RUYMEN/UPI/Newscom](https://d2eehagpk5cl65.cloudfront.net/img/c800x450-w800-q80/uploads/2023/08/upiphotostwo423695-800x450.jpg)
The first votes in the Republican presidential primary are scheduled to be cast by caucus-goers in Iowa on January 15. That's 145 days from today, when the first debate in the contest will be held in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
To put that in context, it would be like holding the first debate for next year's general election—scheduled for November 5—in late March. That would be obviously absurd. Tonight's event is no less so.
In fact, the math is even less kind than it might seem at first blush. The Iowa caucuses aren't really equivalent to November's general election. They are weird, sparsely attended, and unlikely to be dispositive. The same is true for the Nevada caucuses scheduled for February 8. Republicans will have their first true primary on February 28 in South Carolina, but the date that really matters is March 5, when 13 states plan to hold their GOP primaries.
That's 195 days away. It would be like holding a general election debate in early February.
America, we don't have to do this to ourselves.
Every year, social media is full of people complaining about stores decorating for Christmas at seemingly earlier and earlier points. It's happening already this year. But holiday season–creep has got nothing on election season–creep, which is more expansive and less productive. Holding a debate tonight is like decorating for Christmas well before the Fourth of July (a gap of 174 days).
It's worth asking: Who is tonight's debate for? Is there one voter in the entire country who will hear something tonight that convinces him or her to vote for Vivek Ramaswamy or Nikki Haley—and then will never be swayed from that choice over the next six months? Perhaps, but there certainly aren't many more than one.
At best, tonight's debate is a glorified preseason football game—an unwatchable spectacle that no one ought to enjoy. Like in many preseason games, the star player is on the bench. In his absence, the prospective backups will compete to earn what's unlikely to be anything better than a third-string spot on the final roster.
In fact, if reports are to be believed, some of them aren't even trying to earn the starting role.
But even that comparison flatters what we're doing here. There are a mere 192 days between the first snap of the preseason and the scheduled kickoff of this year's Super Bowl.
The way-too-early start of the presidential primary season creates some practical problems too. A less insane schedule—say with the first debates happening in early January, still two months out from the first real primary—would give voters, donors, and candidates a better sense of the shape of the race. We'd have more information about former President Donald Trump's legal issues, for one. Candidates who simply couldn't hack it would have already packed up and gone home for lack of money. And the stakes that will define the 2024 general election would be more clear. Messages could be more carefully honed, questions tailored, and with limited time before voting starts the candidates would have a stronger incentive to actually debate one another.
And that is, of course, the point. Debates are crucial to democracy, but they're more useful when held in formats and at times that allow voters (who have better things to spend their time on) to grasp distinctions between candidates. For all the many, many problems with the Commission on Presidential Debates, which runs the general election presidential debates, it basically gets the scheduling part right. There are usually three debates, all held in the final weeks of the campaign.
A silver lining, albeit a faint one, might be Trump's absence from tonight's debate. With the clear front-runner absent, fewer people will tune in to watch. Perhaps those lower ratings send a market signal to the cable news stations that plan and host these primary debates.
Trump's threatened absence from future debates might even cause a reconsideration about how many there should be. For now, there's only one more officially scheduled (September 27 in California), though many more are likely.
That's probably a naive hope. Still, no matter what Fox News and the other Republican candidates decide to do, remember that you have a choice too. You can spend time with your family. You can play with your pets. You can watch an endless cornucopia of other shows, movies, and sporting events on television. You can read a magazine.
There are 145 days before anything that's said tonight will matter, if anything said tonight ever does.
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>>Debates are crucial to democracy
pre-smartphone maybe
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Are Republicans going to position a giant stuffed chicken suit behind a podium?
An obese, vainglorious, lying chicken suit?
Is there one voter in the entire country who will hear something tonight that convinces him or her to vote for Vivek Ramaswamy or Nikki Haley—and then will never be swayed from that choice over the next six months?
I agree the election season is getting entirely too long, but come on. That’s a ridiculous standard, that a debate is supposed to sway people permanently and unflinchingly to a candidate’s side. That’s not a good measure about whether it has value.
I probably won’t watch, but I am interested in what these candidates have to say. I’ve been meaning to look more into Vivek and Scott and Burgum just to see what they’re actually saying and if they have policies I can get behind.
Edit: shouldn’t have been a reply to rev, but did this mobile. So whatever.
That was a really strange position to take.
if they have policies I can get behind.
look at this guy here, talking about policies ‘n’ shit
For certain they are not going to position an elderly, corrupt lifelong politician that put family above country and can not speak intelligently about anything and think people’s misfortunes are a joke ! Trump who I know you refer to is an experienced president with a Better record than Any other president ever !
Well, at least his record is better than the incumbent’s.
put family above country
How much did the Saudis give Jared Kushner again?
I first read that as a “giant stuffed chicken slut”. Was I wrong?
Actually, that was a typing mistake by the Rev. he actually meant “Slut”.
lid for every pot.
Biden would still lose. The Dems need someone who can think on his or her feet. Or even in a chair.
Are Republicans going to position a giant stuffed chicken suit behind a podium?
Well, the guy in the Easter Rabbit suit is fully booked guiding Biden away from crowds, so it is possible.
Perhaps those lower ratings send a market signal to the cable news stations that plan and host these primary debates.
No chance. And GTFO with “market signals” and cable. They have never been a free market.
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The debate is worthless.
None of these liars will actually answer a real question. They will talk in generalities, thump the Bible, and wave the flag.
Then some idiot gasbag like Hannity will declare a “winner”.
i hate to be so cynical, Peanuts.
Many of you gullible idiots actually believe these political pigs at the trough.
LOOK AT DONNIE! HE PROMISED A BORDER WALL! SO DREAMY!
Dummy is your middle name – DJT promised a wall and began against all odds – bought all the material, hired the best construction company that worked at a record pace to accomplish as much as possible b4 the Empty Headed Bubble Doll was declared the next president and who proceeds to sell the material to the wall can Never be completed – whose the real dummy, dummy ?
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If it wasn’t for globohomo sluts like your Democrats and GOPer’s doing everything they could to stop him, he might have even finished.
Yes yes yes. It’s ALWAYS someone else’s fault. Trump the Master Deal Maker and “I Alone Can Fix It” Drain The Swamp 9-D Chess Player was outsmarted by low level Dem flunkies in the deep state.
It couldn’t possibly be the case that Trump is an idiot whose main asset is his brand and has little else to offer beyond that. No no no. It’s always someone else holding back Trump the Genius Dealmaking Magician.
It’s still valuable to get a look at how the candidate does on his or her own, without a script (even if most of the answers are practiced.) And to see what points they are emphasizing. And to see if you could stand seeing them on TV for 4 years.
So its like the same reason that a lot of people who care about football, rather than just looking at the box scores to see if they won on their bets, watch preseason games
Hey Plug, talk in generalities, thump the Bible, and wave the flag. is more than Biden can do. He needs to be led to the podium, attempt to read off the teleprompter, wipe his drool from his chin, and be escorted off the stage so he doesn’t shake hands with a ghost.
He’s just like you! (except he only likes to sniff their hair)
At best, tonight’s debate is a glorified preseason football game—an unwatchable spectacle that no one ought to enjoy.
Boehm’s Libertarian take on the challenge to Candidate Trump is, “nothing to see here?”
Ugh.
Pre-season football still outdraws major league baseball, hockey, soccer and the NBA in TV ratings.
THAT is a tribute to the low IQ of the American public.
Debate? What debate?
I hear FOX plans to broadcast a joint press conference of the second level of possible republican candidates, but no debates.
The “rules” are designed to prevent thoughtful discussion of complex issues, and instead to generate a weeks worth of sound bites for all the other news shows.
Oh, well; if there were free elections and verifiable results, it might matter, but not any more.
Yes, it’s more like “tell us your platform position on issue X. You have 90 seconds.” There’s very little debate, maybe a few unscripted grenades tossed back and forth.
Well, Christmas isn’t every 4 years, so why would you assume that 174 days before Christmas is the same as 174 days before the primaries? At least divide by 4, thanks.
43.5 days before Christmas is… Veterans Day. That’s better than seeing Christmas decorations before Halloween.
Too early is no big deal as long as it doesn’t become early and often.
An early debate to provide a platform to directly compare candidates and hopefully encourage a number of them to drop out entirely is a good thing. Waiting until the last moment to create differentiation just leads to people blindly sticking with their first choice from the overload of options at the end.
Exactly.
It’s less for me about the debates starting early, but that the campaigns never stop. People started announcing their candidacies back in November, so we’re basically getting two years straight of campaigning for the Presidency. There’s no down time anymore, when you can stop making things about who’s running for president.
Conservatives may care about the debate more than the author realizes. Trump has sucked all the air out of the room. Media lives to discuss his legal issues as the left appears to be pushing for his candidacy.
Most candidates on the stage tonight have limited name recognition, let alone voters understanding their policy positions.
A couple interviews, few political ads, and photo ops at the Iowa State Fair have not given the candidates much exposure. Ramaswamy going on Tucker, Maher, etc. seems to be the most aggressive in getting known to more voters. I haven’t seen the others much outside the planned RNC events and minimal ads.
Without Trump, conservatives and Republicans will be able to view alternatives to Trump and compare. Few voters will likely make permanent decisions on a candidate, but seeing the options before primary season is not a negative to the process.
Well said.
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People need a backup candidate in case Trump is in jail by then. Or in case his age-related mental decline approaches that already suffered by Biden.
I think people could elect Trump even if he is in jail by then. Is there a law against the President signing papers from the pen instead of from the White House?
>>I think people could elect Trump even if he is in jail by then.
will.
The way things have been going, if they actually manage to imprison him he’ll end up becoming president by popular acclaim.
Trump still needs to get past the 14th amendment. I doubt he will be on a lot of ballots by the time it matters whether they lock him up or not. Those who think he can win are living in a dream.
Those who think he can win are living in a dream.
Same for pretty much all ‘End the TPD!’, ‘Switch to RCV.’, and ‘Viable 3rd party!’ ideologies derivatively.
If one party or the other can indict-and-defer or no-standing/moot-point another party’s leading candidate off the ballot and our out of the election (to say nothing of the same party doing both), then both parties effectively perpetrating all-of-the-above and more should be a cake walk.
This has been my point since the beginning. If believe your “I want my preferred political outsider or 3rd party candidate to have a serious shot.” in earnest, you don’t have to like Trump or Perot or even vote for him, but demonizing them for simply being on the stage is/was antithetical.
Isn’t more data better? Isn’t Iowa supposed to be separating the wheat from the chaff? If you have 15 candidates, it would be good to get that down to 5 or 6 by the time things really get going in January.
To qualify for the first debate, candidates needed to poll at 1% or higher (which serves to exclude unknown candidates, but not all of them), and needed to have at least 40,000 individual donors (to prove they have somewhat broad-based support and aren’t just buying their way in with a few big donors.) Apparently Mike Pence had trouble getting 40,000 supporters.
If you have fifteen candidates, it would be even better to get them down to zero.
He should really see if Liz Cheney is available to help him out with that.
Pence’d only need 40,000 supporters if he had 40,000 followers who had balls.
As opinions go this one is even more useless than usual. Nope, debates are NOT “crucial” to democracy. I even question whether “democracy” is crucial no matter how you might define it. Furthermore, Americans are free to not watch them – as I plan to do – if they don’t find them entertaining or informative. What harm does unnecessary televised events cause to the writer or to any of the rest of us? Television is chock FULL of worthless shows twenty-four seven on hundreds of channels. I don’t watch any of them either and they do me no harm. Was this a slow news day or something? Did the crash of mercenary commander’s private plane in Russia not merit an article but Trump not participating in a political event did?
I can hardly wait to hear Nikki! tell us her secret
guacmac and cheese recipe, Fat Chris waffle on about how McCain was within his rights to fuck America over because Trump was rude, and Pence call for transferring the Treasury to Ukraine.Tucker should hold his own debate between Vivek, The Donald, DeSantis and RFK Jr. I bet it could quintuple the number of viewers this turkey will pull in.
I would definitely watch that.
Tucker should hold his own debate between Vivek, The Donald, DeSantis and RFK Jr. I bet it could quintuple the number of viewers this turkey will pull in.
With beer. And hookers. And blackjack. Come to think of it, forget about the debate.
Them shooting the shit on debate topics while playing blackjack with hookers accompanying them would be awesome.
Throw in half-a-dozen nobodies or celebrity non-candidates to sit in, have a few tables with moderator/dealers like Carlson and Rogan at each table and just host a tournament.
If you wanted to get real thumb-in-the-eye with it, each player picks a charity and 10% of the proceeds go to Hawaiian Disaster Aid or whatever.
No, they are starting far too late!
Most Republican voters are long since in bed by 9 pm!
I went to bed last night at 9 PM. Then I got up around midnight and went back home!
Where do you live that whore houses close at midnight?
Also, even if debates were crucial to democracy, these are nothing like debates!
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Well I think like most people I look forward to the possibility that Chris Christie could suffer a massive coronary onstage while the audience watches in horror as a team of medics tries in vain to move his carcass to a stretcher. All live and in living color. It would be a Jack Ruby shoots Oswald moment that I for one would hate to miss.
Jesus Christ, that’s a horrible thing to say about even your worst enemy. You should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking about such a thing. Unless his head bounced off the stage 5 or 6 times and the medics struggled because he had shit his pants and kept flopping around like a fish, that would be hilarious.
But he just said “Wooh!”
Republicans Pounce On Debating Among Themselves
Several Republican candidates are debating among themselves tonight before anybody could possibly fabricate charges to file against them in the first few months of their potential Presidency and that’s not fair.
By Eric Boehm
18-24 mos. later:
Republicans Pounce On SOTUA Rebuttal-Rebuttal Rebuttal by Eric Boehm
Think I’ll skip these debates this time. No point.
I’m watching the “debate” right now. What a bunch of morons. I’ll vote for Christie or maybe even Haley. The rest are beyond stupid. Ramaswamy is nuts.
This summer I’ve noticed around here homes strung with colored lights, and not for an event either. They’re not just for Christmas any more.