RIP Anchor Steam, the San Francisco Brew That Saved Craft Beer in America
Anchor Brewing was sunk by the same forces that former owner Fritz Maytag helped unleash by nurturing America's craft beer revolution.

The last time San Francisco's Anchor Brewing Company faced bankruptcy, a wealthy heir stepped in to save the brewery—and may have changed the course of the entire American beer industry in the process.
There may not be a similar reprieve this time. Anchor, originally founded in 1896, announced this week that it would be shutting down for good. "The impacts of the pandemic, inflation, especially in San Francisco, and a highly competitive market left the company with no option but to make this sad decision to cease operations," Sam Singer, a spokesman for the company, said in a statement.
The highly competitive craft beer market that might have played a role in Anchor's final demise, ironically, might not exist without the brewery, which survived San Francisco's devastating 1906 earthquake, Prohibition, and some of the darkest days of American beer history.
It survived the near-bout with bankruptcy in 1965 thanks to Fritz Maytag, the great-grandson of the founder of the Maytag Corporation, who bought a majority share in the brewery because he liked the beer, then set about making it better. In an era when macro-breweries making yellow, watery lagers dominated America's beer market, Anchor's flagship beer—Anchor Steam Beer, with its distinctive copper color and foggy flavors—certainly stood out.
"We went back to the most fundamental, traditional type of brewing philosophy," Maytag told Reason in a 2010 interview. Under his guidance, Anchor embraced a combination of traditional beer making "combined with modern food processing and equipment."
Anchor's best-known beer is a perfect illustration of that mixture. It's a modern take on a style of beer—known as "steam beer" because it is fermented at a higher temperature than most other types of beer—that was originally produced in the days before breweries had access to artificial refrigeration.
To gain acclaim for making a superior product that consumers enjoy is the goal of any businessman. To inspire others to do the same? That's what cements Anchor's (and Maytag's) place in the pantheon of American beer making.
By the mid-1970s, with Anchor's reputation and business growing on the West Coast, it became a hub for a new wave of brewers interested in experimenting with new styles of beer. Among those was Ken Grossman, who would go on to found the Sierra Nevada Brewing Company in 1980 and help kick off America's craft beer revolution.
"In the '60s and in the early '70s, I never dreamed that there would be any other little breweries like ours," Maytag told Reason in that 2010 interview. "Only later, to my amazement when some of the new little breweries sprang up did I come to the realization that what we had done was possible for others to do."
According to the Beer Association, an industry group, there were only 163 breweries in the country when Maytag saved Anchor from bankruptcy in 1965. By the early 1980s, there were fewer than 100. Today, there are over 9,000.
Maytag and Anchor kept alive the flame—a flame lit beneath a brew kettle, of course—of independent craft beer in America. It's perhaps a bit ironic that the company is now shutting down in part because of the robust competition in a market that it helped to energize.
As The New York Times notes, mid-level breweries like Anchor, which grew large enough to have a decent national footprint but remain smaller than the likes of Budweiser and Coors, are particularly vulnerable right now. They face competitive pressure from the larger breweries but are increasingly losing market share on the local side too, as smaller craft breweries continue to proliferate and attract new customers.
In that regard, the demise of Anchor Brewing is not a sad story, but something to be cheered: proof that creative destruction remains an indefatigable force.
"There's more creativity and more integrity and more variety in America than in the rest of the world combined," Maytag said in 2010, shortly before he sold the company to Japan-based Sapporo.
So raise a glass—there's still some iconic Anchor Steam Beer out there in the supply chains—and then pour one out for the end of a truly great entrepreneurial story.
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There are only 2 viable choices - Anheuser Busch and Miller/Molson Coors. Any other beer you drink is a wasted vote.
When AB was bought out by InBev, about 15 years ago - in St. Louis, very many of the people who were locally involved with the brewery were put out; either by choice or by corporate streamlining. The result was that we had an absolute explosion of neighborhood micro-breweries with a wide variety of styles and products.
Mergers that cull the most motivated and talented workers tend to create their own future competition in a number of industries.
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So Boehm will reluctantly drink Bud Light.
Jeff Molson has sent mean tweets that were mean. Each time Boehm must write about Bud Light, there are often more mentions of Molson even though the articles are seemingly not about them.
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This just helps prove that sarc votes early and often.
He votes multiple times an hour all year long.
Mail-in equivalent would be Pub Hub.
His Cpap machine is a coltsPAP machine.
His MD is Mogen David.
Which one is the MAGA brew?
Oh, wait--I think I figured it out. Coors was all KKK and Nazi back in the day. (Fun fact: you could ride an inclined railway to the top of the mountain above the Coors brewery, and attend KKK meetings in a palace.). And Bud is about modern fluids--gender, specifically.
Damn, now there's an idea...
"MAKE ALES GREAT AGAIN (by not overhopping them) BEER".
If that cures what ales you, go for it.
Sam Koch (no relation to the Kochs and pronounced Cook) of Sam Adams beer fame got some crap from the woketariat a few years back because he mentioned that some of Trump’s policies were good for his business.
“MAKE ALES GREAT AGAIN (by not overhopping them) BEER”.
WRONG
Isn't Coors what Burt Reynolds was supposedly smuggling in Smokey and the Bandit?
I think we brought back more Leinenkugel's Originals / Northwoods from our camping trip last week than he could have fit in that car.
Yes. They went to Texarkana (state not specified, but with the distribution center and dry laws, it probably was Arkansas) for it. At the time, Coors was not sold east of the Mississippi River due to the way it was brewed and pasteurized. It would spoil. Hence, not only was it bootlegging, but also that time was of the essence to get it back prior to spoilage.
It wasn't the car they were smuggling it in, but rather an 18 wheeler.
The car was just to draw attention from the truck. They (notionally) had a whole trailer full. I suspect a top to bottom, front to back 53 foot trailer would actually be overweight, even in cans. You'd need inflatable dunnage to haul that and not have it shift.
We brought a LOT of Leinie's back. A Lot.
Wait, you brought beer back from a camping trip? How does that happen?
Fortunately, not. You can enjoy whatever beer you like, unlike government, where you get the choice of the masses.
The real question is plain IPA, or double IPA?
West Coast IPA, or hazier?
Pale ale with PNW hops such as Cascade. The extra alcohol from the double, 90-minute, and imperial varieties tone down the subtleties of the hops and mutes the malt imo. It is akin to Mexican cuisine versus someone smothering food in ghost pepper sauce. Sierra Nevada got it right (PNW brewery, not the one in North Carolina). Goose Island has at least two IPAs that are well-crafted but they are also under AB.
Cold cellar brewing rules. witness Pilsner Urquell.
If you like pilsners.
Lite beer was developed the barbarians in Classical times, as a defensive measure, after they heard the Greeks used hoplites to defeat the Persians .
I see what you did there... 🙂
Those damn Hoplophobic barbarians! Their legacy carries on today with proposals for "common-sense gun control."
The Persians came back only to be sunk at Salamis by torpedoes bearing hops.
Eastern European pilsners are a totally different animal than what you probably associate with the style.
Reflexively idiotic as usual— Plzeň is in Bohemia
Sarc is probably butt-chugging colt 45 again.
I’m sure Sarc does a lot of butt chugging down at the transit authority to earn his extra booze money.
"Cold cellar brewing rules. witness Pilsner Urquell."
I remember, back in the 70's, living in the SF Bay Area, when I had to drive quite a ways to find a store which sold Pilsner Urquell. It seemed like an "other-worldly" beer to my young palette. Fast forward to Chico, CA, in the 90's (also home of Sierra Nevada), and there are so many brews out there I cannot even keep track of them, much less try them all.
PU gets it right for sure. Part of this the water they use. There was a good book published about various beers around the world by a mow deceased Brit named Michael Jackson (not Pluggo singer). He rated PU quite high and iirc, talked about the karst spring water (?) they used in brewing.
Pilsner's in general are all about the water. The water in Pilsen, where the style originates, is actually remarkably pure, very low in salts.
I would brew my bohemian pilsner with ro/di water and wouldn't add back anything. With other styles we always added brewer's salts to make harder water, different amounts for different beers, and it made a big difference. Clean, pure water and a bit of dry hopping to enhance to aroma were my biggest tricks for the pilsner though.
One other interesting thing (at least for people interested in such things) is that Saaz hops change in character remarkably with exposure to light. Good, fresh saaz give a spicy aroma. Light struck beer -- clear or green bottles are the worst -- get skunky. Saaz spicy floral aroma after light strike is the skunkiest of skunky. I didn't know I like pilsner until I got a fresh one!
Which is why Pilsner Urquell still brags about drawing its water from Pilzen's oldest quelle
It is a good Pilsner, but Pilsners are not the best beers!
Anchor Brewing.
Born 1896. Unionized 2019. Died 2023.
Will the last person to leave San Francisco please turn off the lights?
No, they'll already have been too expensive to be on, which is why the last person to leave, leaves.
Plus, electric lights are white privilege.
Clean water that won't cause cholera is racist.
Cholered people hardest hit.
I feel pretty choleric, most days.
This is all making me feel pretty melanchoric.
Better a depressed melanchoric than an antic Mantichoric.
You must have golf shoes and a Cholered shirt.
Yeah, how are they blaming the pandemic? That was 3 years ago.
Anchor Steam, perfect shitty beer for shitty San Francisco, good riddance
I wont miss their steam beer terribly. But hoping this means their trademark on the term (which they never should have been awarded) will lapse and others can start making and selling the style openly.
But I will miss their porter, which I think is one of the best American made porters on the market.
Wow. Unionizing is never mentioned in news articles about Anchor's demise.
It seems the management was cutting benefits, including earned time off, etc, so, yeah they did unionize.
https://vinepair.com/articles/anchor-brewing-craft-beer-union/#:~:text=On%20Wednesday%2C%20March%2013%2C%202019%2C%20Anchor%20Brewing%20officially,union%20members%2C%20including%20Busch%2C%20Budweiser%2C%20Miller%2C%20and%20Coors.
Now they will have plenty of time off.
Sigh. Boy is Reason going downhill.
The assertion that Anchor Brewing is largely responsible for the craft brewing revolution is laughable. The legalization of home brewing in October 1979, and the resulting explosion of interest and brewing creativity subsequently resulted in entrepreneurs wanting to brew and sell their own beer.
Also, this article does nothing other than parrot Anchor's own explanation as to why it failed. It would be interesting to see some actual journalism delving into the failure. Was it unionization? Was it the fact that Frisco is not a dystopian hell-hole? Was it just plain, old-fashioned bad management? I don't know. Neither, apparently, does Reason.
Sarc will be along to explain the “math”.
To be fair to sarc, woke math doesn't require actual numbers.
Or equations. Just “beliefs”.
2 + 2 = 160 ounces
Usually when I think "four forty" I'm talking about a big block Mopar, but I guess around here it would mean something different...
Around here it refers to sarc’s morning.
Around here it’s often the result of Fatfuck Jeffy stepping on his scale.
We don't know what explanation sarc will have, but we do know it will be the right's fault.
True... Boston Beer Company is probably most directly responsible for the resurgence of American brewing.
And the fact is that Anchor simply got surpassed by superior brewers. Happens all the time. If they were so good and so beloved and not losing market share then why not simply move operations out of California rather than shutting down completely?
+1 Seems a little of column A and a little of column B: They're the most beloved beer in
athe city of Cosmopolitan drinkers.I wouldn't discount the change in San Francisco culture, either.
For a long time, that was THE local. You got in SF, and it was the most ordered beer.
But, now, SF is full of tech bros and progressive pricks. It has no middle class, and no organic identity. Everyone is from somewhere else, except for the retirees who bought their houses 25 years ago. It's not a place where you grew up, still live, and are proud of the traditions. It isn't liberal. The progressive, illiberal culture would be unfathomable to someone teleported from the SF of 1990.
SF doesn't support local beers because it doesn't support locals. Not really.
Hey, do you want time and labor-intensive investigation and writing, of what might be a convoluted and unresolved history, or do you want happy (or angry) stories.
No love to the POTUS who signed HR1377?
Libertarian hero Jimmy Carter, ladies and gentlemen. For most of the past 50 years, Carter held the title of "most libertarian president of the time".
Question for TrumpFan: which single act of Trump's deregulation will have a more profound and lasting effect on the US as Carter's deregulation of beer? Be specific.
I do love this continued narrative of the leftists parading as libertarians to rehabilitate the guy who created the DoE and DoEd.
Department of Health EDUCATION and Welfare predated Carter, you moron. Separating it out is the first step to killing it but your GOP heroes Beefed it up with No Child Left Behind.
Carter deregulated large swaths of the economy - and he was no question the most libertarian POTUS as he worked on whittling the deficit down. Again, your GOP heroes like Fatass Donnie added $2 trillion to the DEFICIT (not debt).
So much cope.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
The Energy Reorganization Act of 1974 split the responsibilities of the AEC into to the new Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which was charged with regulating the nuclear power industry, and the Energy Research and Development Administration, which was assigned to manage the nuclear weapon, naval reactor, and energy development programs.
Prior to Carter naming the Department energy policy existed, you clown.
(Wikipedia)
https://reason.com/2017/02/07/department-of-education-jimmy-carter/
https://www.energy.gov/management/august-4-1977-president-carter-signs-department-energy-organization-act
I swear you're the dumbest fuck here.
Buttplug is right here. The federal government was already involved in energy policy and education policy before Carter. All Carter did (and Congress) was create a more formal administrative structure for administering those policies. Carter shouldn’t be blamed for starting those policies, but he can be fairly blamed IMO for further cementing those policies into the administrative state.
"I swear you’re the dumbest fuck here."
Jeff says 'hold my beer'.
That really added substance to the conversation.
And then White Mike has to white knight Jeffy and Pluggo. So who's dumber? Tweedlepluggo, Tweedlejeffy, or the idiot that white knights them?
I don't bother to rate the Five Cretins. They're all just zero, these days.
Just trying to keep up with ya! How much substance did you just add?
Did you think that Jeff added substance to the conversation? Or just text?
Carter *actually* started both DoE's. It's just a fact. People can spend paragraphs bitching about it, but it's actually verifiable.
It would be better to debate how to remove them or what value they add in an argument to keep them around. Saying 'Oh, No, that wasn't Carter' is verifiably BULLSHIT.' It's factually incorrect, it's wrong, it's a LIE. Don't die on this hill. It's fucking stupid.
“Did you think that Jeff added substance to the conversation? Or just text?”
Yes. There are several comments on this page where chemjeff attempted to have an actual discussion of libertarian philosophy and he was repeatedly met with personal attacks.
No, he doesn’t. Jeffy has spent YEARS here engaging in sophistry, deceit, and tedious sea lioning.
Now he is reaping what he sowed. So are you.
The thread policeman taught you, Minadin.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, a TDS-addled asshole and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit
People don't go out to a bar and order Joe's home brew though. They might get sick, and it most likely tastes like swamp water with some rotted orange peels in it. Anchor Brewing was the first successful craft brewed beer brand in the USA, and paved the way for a lot of smaller high-quality breweries to follow. Too bad they ran themselves into the ground.
Also, this article does nothing other than parrot Anchor’s own explanation as to why it failed.
Good point. I mean, all they're doing is shutting down the business. They couldn't possibly know why they're doing it.
Corporations always tell the truth.
Blind faith in institutions is sarcs main addiction.
That, MD 20/20, and Aqua Net sprayed into the lid in a pinch.
+1 on all points.
More lazy assed journolisming from the kiddie pool.
Thanks for pointing this out. Reason doesn't realize removing an unneeded government restriction led to market changes benefiting consumers??
I was going to write precisely this. Thanks, now I can just say: "Absolutely right!" Anchor Steam was fine, when there was just Sam Adams, and a handful of others. It did NOT spawn micro brewing.
The good news is that the US can never (in the foreseeable future) be criticized for weak/tasteless beers by ANY country. Ours are the best!
“What’s Happening At LinkedIn Is So Important” Discrimination By Algorithm Is The Future Of Affirmative Action
discrimination will go even more high tech after the Supreme Court’s Affirmative Action ruling: “They’ll plug it into their algorithms, they’ll plug it into their artificial intelligence, they’ll plug it into their [computer] program, and you will never know.”
And how much simpler everything would be if freedom of association still meant anything, and the bigots could practice their bigotry out in the open and go as broke as the woke, who are their own weird class of bigots.
Government never fixes anything, they just tack one bandaid after another on top of the festering wound they created in the first place. Eventually the whole pile falls off and the patient recovers, unless the patient dies first, but that won't stop the government applying a few more bandaids just in case.
But the absolutist libertarian position on freedom of association would dictate that SCOTUS was wrong at least on a *principled* level if not on a legal or constitutional level, that universities like Harvard ought to be free to discriminate on the basis of race if they choose. And that LinkedIn ought to be free to discriminate on the basis of race in the selection of hiring pools (if that is in fact what they are doing). It is the unlibertarian, pro-CRA, pro-14th Amendment argument which says that the government should forcibly restrict Harvard from exercising its freedom to associate with whom they choose on a racial basis. So the freedom of association argument cuts both ways.
Personally I think racial discrimination is vile and poisonous, and a blight and a cancer on our society that ought to be eradicated. Because of my strong personal feelings on the matter, I think that even though laws like the CRA violate freedom of association, it ought to be repealed only once it is clearly demonstrated that it is no longer needed. I don't think we are there, as racial attitudes on both the left and the right still have a lot of internalized racism in them.
But?????
You say that like it’s a bad thing, and like you didn’t read what I wrote.
What part about individualism and freedom do you not understand?
Oh right, all of it.
So freedom for us peasants only once we’ve conformed to the right way, the Jeff way, of thinking.
Fuck off, slaver. The only thing radical about your “individualism” is its Orwellian contortion.
So freedom for us peasants only once we’ve conformed to the right way, the Jeff way, of thinking.
Please quote the part of chemjeff’s comment where he said everyone else must think like him.
I did, and you too seem to not have read anything rebutting your hero.
Here, just because now you have to pretend twice to not have seen it.
Hmm, funny, all chemjeff talks about in that quote is his personal opinion.
Wow. So you actually are retarded. Key words are “only once.”
Getting the trolling structure down to one sentence is impressive. Not as good as when you do the classic one word drive by of "cite?".
He wasn't called White Knight for nothing.
He went full retard in his white knighting too. ABC clearly posted the quote. And it isnt the first time jeff has asserted freedom after compliance.
As an example he used the same argument to defend welfare. As soon as private charities and Americans provide enough, then government can stop.
As an example he used the same argument to defend welfare. As soon as private charities and Americans provide enough, then government can stop.
That's a lie. I have never stated that position.
Since you are the master of commenter dossiers, if you think that is truly what I said, then I'm sure you have it bookmarked somewhere.
What I said, IIRC, is that if we do arrive at a state of Libertopia, and the welfare state does go away, social problems don't suddenly vanish. It will require a culture of charity and selfless giving to help those who are in need who otherwise were helped by the welfare state. So the desire to get rid of the welfare state ought to be coupled with a fostering of a culture of charity. That has been my position all along.
JesseAz’s falsely restating others’ positions is as certain as the sun rising.
What is false? The quote has been posted 5 times now. I posted Jeff’s welfare once compliance is achieved for months also.
You guys freely lie about your statements Mike. Why we have to bookmark your shit now which passes you all off even more.
I’m sure you can provide a citation of me falsely doing it.
Hey look. Here is jeff doing it again.
chemjeff radical individualist 2 years ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Brian, what I’m trying to say is that in a world in which social problems are solved not coercively but voluntarily, a precondition for such a world is people willing to volunteer. And I mean a genuine spirit of voluntarism, not “forced to volunteer”.
He literally calls it a precondition. Compliance before freedom. A whole discussion here:
https://reason.com/2021/10/03/how-the-cdc-became-americas-landlord/?comments=true#comment-9137599
So you can admit you're full of shit Mike.
As usual, you misrepresent my position.
I am not stating that a precondition for repealing the welfare state is people willing to volunteer. I am really just stating a tautology: that if there exists a world in which social problems are solved voluntarily, it must be the case that in this world, there are people willing to volunteer.
I have to wonder, Jesse, do you bookmark ALL of my comments? That is a bit creepy.
"As usual, you misrepresent my position."
It's a literal quote.
"I have to wonder, Jesse, do you bookmark ALL of my comments?"
Because you won't stop lying about things you've once said the moment your old narrative becomes inconvenient to the new. That's what's creepy.
Mike, Jesse is providing direct quotes. FFS. I think you’ve descended even beyond sea lion territory.
Love how jeff cries about quotes when he claims i misrepresent him so I have to provide the old quote.
Even provided a link to the entire fucking discussion.
Jeff if you stopped lying about your prior statements I wouldn't have to bookmark. I do so because you're such a dishonest shit weasel.
No, you create dossiers of people you don't like because you like to create gotcha moments. Because your whole purpose here is to troll.
I pointed out how you misrepresented my position in the linked discussion and I explained it fully. But instead of listening to what the actual explanation is, you will continue to repeat the false interpretation because that is ammunition for your gotcha dossier.
And all things considered, I’ve been pretty damn consistent in my positions over the years.
Believe it or not, I don’t treat the Reason comment board as a full-time job. I don’t compile notes and white papers about my policy positions. I post comments about what is on my mind at the time.
I am not 100% consistent on every issue at every moment in time. Because I am not a robot, I do change my mind from time to time, and yes because I do rely on my memory and sometimes I forget *exactly* what I said in a previous discussion even if I still remember the basic gist of it. But accusing me of “lying” when I don’t remember the exact wording of something I said 3 years ago is unfair.
Furthermore the real world is messy, and there are lots of shades of gray in between the black/white duality of right and wrong. At one time, under one set of circumstances, one conclusion might seem reasonable to me; but at another time, a similar situation with a different set of circumstances, a different conclusion might seem reasonable to me. Because of their superficial similarity, you will jump on the difference in conclusions as evidence of “lying”, when really the difference is evidence of the complexity of the world and the difficulty in applying simple rules to messy reality.
I challenge any of you to find any time at any point where I directly and unambiguously contradicted myself under the exact same set of circumstances and situations. Because that doesn’t happen.
Lying Jeffy caught lying again.
"And all things considered, I’ve been pretty damn consistent in my positions over the years."
This might be your biggest lie yet. Your position is whatever Media Matters tells you it is when you get your morning talking points.
No. I agree jeff is consistent in his leftist views. What he changes is the veneer around his views to make them seem libertarian. Always changing them after his veneer is cracked. But his ideas are consistently leftist. Especially once the onion layers are removed.
If you have to lie about your position, are you actually winning any arguments?
“If you have to lie about your position, are you actually winning any arguments?”
Excellent point. JesseAz should listen to your words of advice.
But accusing me of “lying” when I don’t remember the exact wording of something I said 3 years ago is unfair.
This expectation of fairness is pretty amusing given then he claim others lie without even being able to identify the lie. Fairness is something left wingers expect but never offer others. They wouldn't be able to support their conclusions if they applied the same standards to themselves and their allies that they apply to others. That's how they're the biggest trolls on the board yet unironically whine that others aren't nice enough to them and whine that others are trolls.
Every fucking day with these threadshitting leftist clowns……..
the bigots could practice their bigotry out in the open and go as broke as the woke
Well, see Chumby's comment below. If he is correct, then the bigots won't go broke.
Quite the pickle for you, eh?
Chumbly's wrong, he's always wrong.
But Chumbly supports my hypocrisy.
But Chumbly's wrong.
AIIIIIIIIIIIaaaaaaaaaaaaaiieeeeeeeie!!!!
I never claimed that Chumby is "always wrong".
I simply stated that IF he is correct, and the CRA is repealed, that the racists wouldn't go broke. Is he wrong? Do you think my conclusion is wrong? If so, why?
It is amazing watching them be so ignorant of their own clear statements.
This behavior is why some of us started bookmarking their posts. They lie about their own posts in the same fucking thread.
What is the lie, Jesse?
And retarded mendacity like this was why I was delighted when the mute function showed up. It's not actually possible to refute arguments that are composed entirely of ever-shifting lies and "this is what this word means in this paragraph, this time" claims. You can't argue with quicksand. Only avoid it.
I fully agree NWC. Yet the same leftist shit weasels will claim they only want honest discussion. But look here as both Mike and Jeff try to hide what jeff clearly wrote and has done so on the past. Provided an example above from 2 years ago.
The only shit weasels around here are people like Jesse who routinely lie, use strawmen, and misrepresent other people’s arguments while bookmarking every post they can find in order to generate ‘gotchas’ because their primary mission here is to troll.
Jesse is by far the most dishonest poster here. Even Tulpa is more honest than Jesse, at least Tulpa was honest in his desire to troll.
Well, yes. But that's why I just mute them. Gods know there are plenty of people here I disagree with, sometimes quite significantly, but who are at least honest in their arguments. I have no time to waste on people who are just here to stir shit and heckler's veto conversation. They could easily be replaced with a small shell script. For all I know, they already have been.
I dunno. You guys do you, I suppose, but from my perspective y'all just look like you're banging your heads on the wall for all that you're accomplishing by engaging with them at all. "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get filthy but the difference is that the pig enjoys it." It's like trying to teach physics to a goat. Fuck, even the goat wouldn't actively resist learning like the Five Cretins here do.
I actually mute them for weeks at a time when it grows too tiresome. But ABC was having the same arguments with Jeff I've had dozens of times so decided to butress ABC arguments. It also exposes new people here to their dishonest argumentation.
Enh, fair enough. Fortunately, we have a lovely division of labor going on here where I'm never required to engage with the shitheads. 😀
I don't know why you think that is such a damning comment.
Look, there are a whole lot of commenters here, perhaps even you, who take the exact same position as me, just instead of the CRA, it is border migration.
A whole lot of commenters would agree with the statement:
"I think that even though laws restricting migration across borders violate freedom of association, they ought to be repealed only once it is clearly demonstrated that they are no longer needed."
Because I read all the time how many people here claim they support so-called "open borders", but only when the welfare state is gone. That is essentially the same position as mine, just with border migration instead of racial discrimination.
So, I am willing to accept that we have different priorities for freedom of association but we can still both broadly be in favor of the same general trajectory towards liberty. Why is this so difficult for you to accept?
Because you support the use government power to further your goals.
Because you support the use government power to further your goals.
Okay - then would it be fair to say that those who oppose 'open borders' because of the presence of a welfare state, that they "support the use of government power to further their goals"?
False choice (either/or fallacy). Government force created, maintains, and expands the welfare state. A third option is eliminate government force regarding the welfare state (no public funding) and ask whether force is used at the borders.
Correct, it is unlikely the Democratic Party will ever go broke.
"and like you didn’t read what I wrote."
Only far enough to find some way to horn today's talking-points in.
So freedom for us peasants only once we’ve conformed to the right way, the Jeff way, of thinking.
Look. I don't demand that you or anyone think exactly like me. I am stating my aspirational goals. It is my aspiration that we live in a world that is free, or at least much freer, from racial prejudice and discrimination. Just like it is also my aspiration that we live in a world in which we have universal support and respect for natural rights around the world, and that we live in a world in which we have much greater respect and stewardship for the natural environment. To reach these aspirations I want to use as little coercion as absolutely possible, which is why I am here in the first place as a libertarian.
And I have always stated that I am in favor of repealing the CRA. It is simply not my strong priority. It is pretty close to the bottom of my priority list of libertarian things to do. We all rank our "libertarian to-do list" based on our own qualitative preferences. I am simply being open about mine. You obviously rank repealing the CRA as very high on your "libertarian to-do list". That's fine. We can agree to disagree on that one.
Oooh, you’re letting me agree to disagree with you, kind benevolent Jeffy. Gosh gee whillikers.
The beatings will continue until moral improves!
We will continue to fund the reeducation camps with forfeited assets until said camps are no longer needed.
He’s literally lying about his own clear words.
Dee doesn’t think it is fair that commenters cite previous, germane statements of his team members.
It isnt the first time jeff has argued you will only get freedom once you finally do what he and government wants. He thinks you are free to follow leftist beliefs, true liberty.
Have you ever traveled to Europe, Asia, or Latin America with something more engaging than say a Rick Steves tour? Prejudice isn’t going away anytime soon. Keep demanding government force folks to bake that cake!
I go for ages without reading anything Jeffy posts, then once in a while wonder if my memory of his duplicity has been exaggerated, and come right back to his hypocrisy.
He's not even a good troll. Long rambling paragraphs, hypocrisy as blatant as a sledgehammer, and as dull too. And always the same, showing how wrong his handle is, as if he's just trying to see how many suckers actually think he knows what individualism is, let alone is one.
And always the same, showing how wrong his handle is
Really? That I am passionately and strongly opposed to racial discrimination, shows that I don't really value individualism?
Racial prejudice is one of the most vile forms of collectivism - it is the judgment of individuals by the traits of the collective. That's wrong in most if not all cases. I wouldn't be a very good individualist if I was in favor of racial prejudice.
That's right. I'm in favor of repealing the CRA, just not now, and not in the near future. Only when the time is right.
You obviously disagree. That's fine.
We both have the same goal, we just have different priorities. Why is this such a source of enmity, that I don't share your priority for the same goal?
Alphabet Soup apparently prides himself on how principled his libertarian beliefs are, so he has to make a big show of how much more principled he is than you are.
I always do find it interesting to see the issues upon which people will “die on the hill”.
A few commenters here call me a pedophile and a child molester because they think I am willing to “die on the hill” of “supporting” gender-affirming care for minors and drag queen story hour, when in reality my position is that these things should not be banned by the state, and that conservative fears about them are overblown and many of them are not grounded in reality, but that parents ought to have full liberty to decide how to raise their children (consistent with the NAP of course), whether or not to seek GAC for them, whether or not to take them to drag queen story hour. Nevertheless, I do talk about those issues a lot, and it doesn’t stop them from calling me a pedophile and a pervert.
Well. I wonder if those same commenters would mind being called a racist and a bigot because they seem willing to “die on the hill” of repealing the CRA. I mean, I fully understand that being in favor of repealing the CRA does not necessarily make one a bigot or a racist, it makes one a principled libertarian. But being opposed to banning GAC for minors also doesn’t make one a pedophile, it makes one a principled libertarian, and it doesn’t stop them from calling me a pedophile.
Yeah, they probably wouldn’t appreciate being called a racist bigot for wanting to repeal the CRA.
Jeff's statement provided with bold shows he has no principles if that is his belief. It literally says he is against government action but approves it until compliance is achieved. That's not principled.
No, it says that I have a priority list that accompanies my principles. I'm also not a blind ideologue - with most things, there should be a marriage between principles and utilitarian concerns.
When the old racist bigots die out in greater numbers and social attitudes have changed to be more racially tolerant, then we can have a discussion about the CRA. But until then, I think the harm that would accompany repealing the CRA outweighs the benefits associated with restoration of freedom of association.
Jeezus
I'm unaware of any libertarian principle that requires allowing parents to treat their children like farm animals that they can do with as they please.
I’m unaware of any libertarian principle that requires allowing parents to treat their children like farm animals that they can do with as they please.
You're right, there isn't, that would be a violation of the NAP.
Then why do you advocate allowing parents to poison and mutilate their children with "gender affirming care"?
Gender affirming care, as a valid medical procedure to treat a diagnosed disease state according to a strict standard of care, in which all parties have fully consented and fully understand the risks and benefits, should not be banned by the state but should be used cautiously and with great supervision.
Gender affirming care in other situations should not be permitted as in these cases it is not a valid medical procedure at least as far as I can see.
Hope that clears things up.
It clears up that you're delusional, but we already knew that.
Gender affirming care, as a valid medical procedure to treat a diagnosed disease state according to a strict standard of care,
In reality these diagnoses are driven by political activism, not medicine, as demonstrated by many doctor testimonies, the left's reaction to genuine inquiry, and the many testimonies from detransitioners. But Jeffy ignores any evidence which would risk his conclusion because his only purpose is protecting the left and attacking the right.
In reality these diagnoses are driven by political activism
I am aware that some diagnoses are driven by political activism and I object to those.
I stated my position on what I think would be acceptable conditions for having legal GAC. I'm fully aware that some current proponents of GAC, mostly on the left, would be unhappy with them because they want looser criteria.
Is that what you wanted to hear? That I am taking a position that would make some on the left unhappy?
I am aware that some diagnoses are driven by political activism and I object to those....
...lying Jeffey whispered.
Notice the contradiction now: he attacks people who oppose mutilation for political reasons even though he now "admits" this happens. Only when his credibility is explicitly and completely under threat is he willing to admit an obvious reality that undermines the left's assertions. Conversely he asserts every wild, absurd charge against the right.
This is the "Must I / Can I" dichotomy. When the left is the subject he accepts only evidence he must accept or sacrifice credibility. When discussing the right he accepts any evidence he can to the point where doing so would end his credibility. [Of course being a leftist he doesn't have a strong sense of where these boundaries are]. Since most evidence is neither perfectly exculpatory nor inculpatory the result is wildly different standards for judgment.
The amusing part about this is that his application of Must I / Can I is perfectly tribal. You see that here where he minimizes his disagreement with the left as much as possible. He limits the context, identifies it only to those on the right, and refuses to draw larger conclusions from their errors. By comparison he does the exact opposite when in expressing disagreement with the right. He maximizes the disagreements by lying about their beliefs, he's personally offensive to them, and draws cartoonishly idiotic lessons from minor issues (while ignoring bigger issues from the left). Yet he constantly whines about others' tribalism as if their recognizing his tribalism is their problem rather than his.
"Gender Affirming Care" does not treat or cure any disease or disorder. It is politically/ideologically motivated cosmetic intervention.
I’m in favor of repealing Hate Speech Laws, and stopping the government from telling social media who to censor, and keeping the FBI out of Churches, but not now, and not in the near future, only when everyone loves the party and Big Brother sufficiently
*applause*
But see, that is also a gross misrepresentation of my position.
I'm not saying "you have to love the government or the party or Big Brother" before the CRA is repealed. I don't care about any of that. Unless you think that not being a racist bigot is synonymous with "party loyalty" or something. It is about when the time is right to enact a particular change.
It isn't, though.
And you have a terrible, monstrous interpretation of the NAP.
Oh I freely admit that this is an exception to libertarian ideological purity. The NAP-approved position is no anti-discrimination laws whatsoever. I understand that.
Look at it this way: it is also a violation of the NAP to have laws that prohibit a strip club from operating next to a kindergarten. But very few people, including myself, are willing to say that they believe repealing these types of zoning laws is so important that it is of the utmost priority to happen right now. So I am willing to tolerate this violation of the NAP in the short term even though it goes against libertarian principles.
Fatfuck, you still don’t see the problem. You want to use continued force to get your way until everyone thinks the way you do. At which point said force is irrelevant. There is nothing libertarian about using force that way.
But you can’t possibly understand that.
I agree that racial prejudice is a worldwide problem, not just an American problem. War and famine and disease and oppression also exist and are also worldwide problems, that doesn't mean we have to endorse them all, or just throw our hands up in the air and shrug and say "nothing we can do about it, sorry".
We avoid government solutions that are expensive, oppressive, often make it worse, and create new problems that result in controlling and crony types demanding further government involvement. People can resolve their own problems without big government making someone bake the fucking cake. It is called libertarianism.
We avoid government solutions that are expensive, oppressive, often make it worse, and create new problems that result in controlling and crony types demanding further government involvement.
I generally agree. However, there are also times when the government solution is actually an appropriate one even from a libertarian perspective. Not very many of them, but some. So IMO, to decide whether the government solution is an appropriate one, or whether it is not, boils down ultimately to a utilitarian calculation.
Yes, any government solution is going to be expensive. But is the expense justified by the benefit? Yes, any government solution is going to be oppressive on some level, because at a minimum it is all funded by coercive taxation. But is the taxation justified by the benefit? Etc.
To take a very obvious example, take the police. One key distinguishing feature between libertarianism and anarchism is that anarchists think that even the police should be private, but libertarians tend to believe that it is acceptable to have a publicly-funded police force, even though they would be funded by coercive taxation, because the cost associated both with taxation and the loss of liberty that it represents, is justified by the benefit of having a publicly accountable police force, and not a privatized 'police' that would ultimately devolve into vigilantism.
But the anarchists would make the exact same argument that you made, but about a publicly-funded police force: that it is "expensive, oppressive, often make it worse, and create new problems that result in controlling and crony types demanding further government involvement." Which is ALL TRUE to a certain extent. But nonetheless, the libertarian calculation is that those costs are worth the benefit of avoiding vigilantism masquerading as policing.
So I am absolutely willing to accept that the CRA has costs. But in my mind, the costs are worth the benefits as of right now. The major benefit as I see it is that all people regardless of race are able to go about their daily lives without fear of racial discrimination at least on a formal level.
Now, it may be that in the future that cost-benefit analysis changes. In my mind, the main way it would change is if the fear of racial discrimination is unfounded anyway because most if not all people wouldn't racially discriminate in the first place. So there would be no need for a law requiring people not to racially discriminate, so the cost of imposing a law that is no longer needed is not justified.
Anyway, that is a fuller exposition of my thoughts on the matter.
In which Jeffy professes his undying faith in Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future.
No, I don't believe in space communism. I would like to think, however, that human beings can evolve beyond ignorant tribal assumptions based on superficial garbage like skin color.
Then you'll be disappointed, eternally.
Possibly. But I choose to be an optimist on this issue.
Always knew he was not only obese but a trekkie.
Like Shreek, I figured he was more of an ‘Our Gang’ fanboy.
Government won’t end prejudice, especially when engaging in it as a solution.
No, government won't end prejudice. Ending prejudice has to come from within. But they can ameliorate some of the harms that prejudice can produce.
Government creates additional prejudice by doing so and doesn’t solve the issue. It can’t.
There are costs, yes, but there are also benefits.
Continuing to harp on the costs but ignoring the benefits is dishonest.
Do you think it is a benefit that all people regardless of race are legally able to go about their daily lives without fear of formal racial discrimination?
Government engages in discrimination when trying to eliminate the unsolvable issue of discrimination. At a cost to the minority forced to fund it.
People should have that ability without government doing it and that is currently not the case.
Please, could you just address the question?
Do you think it is a benefit that all people regardless of race are legally able to go about their daily lives without fear of formal racial discrimination?
I did answer it. They can’t while government currently engages in it. And while government actively participates in social justice warrioring, individual discrimination still occurs. When I experience it, I respect their decision and take my time and money elsewhere because the other party hasn’t earned either from me.
I did answer it. They can’t while government currently engages in it.
Then I don't understand this answer to my question.
I am referring to the situation where a person can walk into a place of public accommodation and be assured that he/she will legally be served as a customer regardless of race. I would imagine this is a benefit to the customer even if there is a cost to the shopkeeper. Would you agree with this statement?
I agree that the government should not discriminate based on race. I think the SCOTUS decision on affirmative action was the right one.
And while government actively participates in social justice warrioring, individual discrimination still occurs.
I agree that individual discrimination still occurs. The CRA doesn't end all individual discrimination nor is it supposed to. *Eventually*, I would like to get to a place where racial discrimination is so rare that it is not even worth talking about. Would you?
When I experience it, I respect their decision and take my time and money elsewhere because the other party hasn’t earned either from me.
That is not how I would approach it. If someone discriminates against me based on race, I don't think I would "respect their decision". I would likely be very offended.
I don’t believe a black baker should be forced by government to bake a KKK branded cake for members of the KKK.
The government is not going to change human nature. You’re in wishful thinking territory.
Sometimes it is nationality when I travel due to the US government trying to fix problems on other nations that creates a backlash. Biden and Bush have made my foreign trips more challenging and I’m forced to fund their activities. When it has occurred, it gives me the opportunity to find decent people to spend time and do business with. There are 8+ billion people on the planet; I’m not interested in getting pay-for-daddy to force each of them to cater to me.
Do you believe a heterosexual male prostitute in Nevada should be forced by government to offer services to male clients?
I don’t believe a black baker should be forced by government to bake a KKK branded cake for members of the KKK.
But that is more of a free speech/free expression issue than a racial discrimination issue.
I agree that the Black baker should not be compelled to deliver a message that he does not agree with. That is compelled speech, regardless if it is in the form of a cake via his business or otherwise.
The better analogy would be if the Black baker were to refuse service to a white patron who asked for a completely ordinary, plain cake with no message whatsoever, on the basis of racial discrimination. That is the type of situation that the CRA prohibits.
The government is not going to change human nature. You’re in wishful thinking territory.
You are right. It is not. I don't claim that it can or it will.
Sometimes it is nationality when I travel due to the US government trying to fix problems on other nations that creates a backlash. Biden and Bush have made my foreign trips more challenging and I’m forced to fund their activities. When it has occurred, it gives me the opportunity to find decent people to spend time and do business with. There are 8+ billion people on the planet; I’m not interested in getting pay-for-daddy to force each of them to cater to me.
I am not interested either in forcing everyone on the planet to cater to you. All I am saying, is that it would be nice if racial discrimination were a thing of the past.
Do you believe a heterosexual male prostitute in Nevada should be forced by government to offer services to male clients?
No, because the prostitute's services are sex-specific. That is like asking if a gynecologist should be forced to serve men.
Once again, I would like to ask if you could at least acknowledge if you see it as a benefit to individuals, that individuals in this country can walk into any place of public accommodation and not be subject to at least formal racial discrimination?
The baker should have a free hand to bake or not bake. The government should not butt in to become a party to the contract. When government does, I reject that form of statism and the coercive system used to fund it.
In a more ideal world I would agree with you.
I guess you aren't ever going to talk about the situation from the customer's point of view.
If the customer does not want to patronize a certain business, the customer should have that right without government forcing them to do business.
“…just throw our hands up in the air and shrug….”
Yes, that’s exactly what an individualist would do. Because telling people how not to think has worked so well.
Of course this approach does nothing to satisfy the dopamine rush you get from virtual signaling.
You’re pathetic, Jeff.
An European woman we know was just mentioning the other day that one of the ways that Americans stick out when they travel to Europe is that their groups are ethnically diverse.
Apparently, where they come from, Irish people tend to travel with other Irish people, Bosnians with Bosnians, and so on.
Hey look, egalitarianism wins out over libertarianism yet again.
Just as I predicted he would say.
Now do the University of North Carolina (or Texas, or California, or Michigan), a State , aka, Government school
As a matter of government policy I don't think the state should discriminate based on race.
Yeah, from a pure liberty standpoint, private universities like Harvard should be able to admit whatever applicants they choose. But then there’s the whole issue of federal funding, via Pell grants, guaranteed student loans, research grants, etc. If you accept the checks from the federal government, the “superficial rule of colorblindness” (as Justice Sotomayor termed the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment) applies to private entities as well.
universities like Harvard ought to be free to discriminate on the basis of race if they choose
And they can. As long as they're not receiving federal money. If they're receiving federal money then they must play by federal rules.
Because of my strong personal feelings on the matter, I think that even though laws like the CRA violate freedom of association, it ought to be repealed only once it is clearly demonstrated that it is no longer needed.
And weed should be legalized only after it can be demonstrated no one will ever smoke it.
Oi!
https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1679860760145543169?t=lZO9uYCbKz93rGIr49TBBA&s=19
The War of Independence and the French Revolution were fueled by the same aspirations for freedom, democracy, and human rights. Today, we are more committed than ever to defending them — together. Warmest wishes on Bastille Day to the people of France.
Misinformation! The American revolution was all about protecting the evil local invention of slavery. The French Revolution was just another episode of their natural inclination to mob together and burn down shit.
Dang French peasants, always rioting against the wise decisions of their benevolent elites.
'Sire! The peasants are revolting!'
'You said it! They stink on ice!'
'Pull!'
"Guillotine" is French for "woodchipper"?
It's perhaps a bit ironic that the company is now shutting down in part because of the robust competition in a market that it helped to energize.
Well, not all *that* ironic. That is how it works in almost any industry. The founders of that industry, if they are successful, eventually fold and pass the torch to the innovators that they helped to inspire. Look at the semiconductor industry - the original trailblazers in that field were companies like Motorola and Texas Instruments. Now, they are either gone, or a shadow of their former selves. Among the originals, only Intel really remains as a dominant player. But semiconductor manufacturing is better than ever. Look at the auto industry - the originals were companies like Ford and GM. Now, they are just two companies among a very large cast of competitors. Again, of the originals, only GM remains as a strong competitor. But the auto industry is better than it has ever been.
So it is not at all surprising nor even that particularly ironic that Anchor Brewing is going away. That is the way of markets and competition.
only GM remains as a strong competitor
LOL
Of the original auto makers, considering the global nature of competition in the auto industry? I think that's a fair statement.
You wouldn't know an original automaker if it ran over your hypocrisy in four wheel drive.
GM was a holding company that purchased the very first automakers such as Buick and Cadillac. So if you want to get technical, then no GM is not one of the very original founding automakers in the US, but they purchased most of the originals (notably, they didn't buy Ford) and that is how they survived.
“So if you want to get technical, then no GM is not one of the very original founding automakers in the US”
So you were wrong.
What are you, like, four years old?
You asking for your friend Pluggo?
Are you Buttplug's wingman now, Mike?
Chickenhawk & the Sea Lion
Maybe that could be a new woke cartoon on Nick Jr.. Shrike should opine. He probably has that on all day while he threadshits here.
Hey Eric are you still going to vote for the evil fag progressives the degrade society leading to this sort of thing?
Haha I kid, your still going to scream both sides.
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https://twitter.com/Steve_Sailer/status/1680132307628457985?t=EPWr1arX1NXjg9Sj_O3PlA&s=19
Tales of the Great Awokening:
From 2014 to 2020, the percentage of young female liberals who thought they'd be discriminated against in the job market for their sex soared from 41% to 74%.
[Link]
Speaking of racism. Steve Sailer is a writer for alt-right publications and has written and defended explicitly racist things. Not surprised that you'd cite him as an authority or follow him on Twitter.
Speaking of child molesters, chemjeff desires nothing more than to molest children
But only with the parents' permission.
As CEO of NAMBLA, Jeffy has formed a PAC to lobby for legislation, which will render age of consent laws, and parental consent, irrelevant.
People really are whatever age they identify as. If you disagree, you are literally a murderer.
Fudge PAC
What makes them “alt-right” and what made the things he “defended” “explicitly racist”?
Also, how do your accusations take away from the results of the study he's referring to?
You’re a one-man smear shop, so as you like to say, show your work.
Jeff is a simple-minded partisan shill. He may think he represents the voice of goodness in a crusade against all the MAGA commenters here--or he just enjoys the cosplay.
Jeff was this retarded way before trump came on scene. Reatrded leftist shill who thinks he is smart enough to build a veneer of libertarianism around his obvious leftist beliefs.
Jesse can't point to a single "leftist" belief that I hold that isn't also shared by libertarians. His view of "leftist" is completely tribalist-based: because I criticize Team Red a lot, in his mind that makes me a "leftist". It is completely bonkers but that is where we are at.
Chemjeff regularly cites The Root and is a full on totalitarian collectivist who views prepubescent children as sexual objects
That is a lie.
We've all read your posts, lying jeffy.
You want government to use power to further your goals.
No no. Government can go away once everyone does what jeff and the left wants them to do.
So do you, to a degree.
Yup.
Poor Sarc. Drunky has no clue what's going on but he'll white knight for Jeffy because fuck those mean girls.
Pour Sarc.
He doesn’t have to. You showcase your leftism here on a daily basis. You just did so upthread where you admitted to advocating for the continuance of unlibertarian leftist laws until the little people stop their wrongthink.
You literally just did that above. So face it, you’re a goddamned leftist slaver.
I swear he used to be at least occasionally competent before The Great Orange Man Badding of the country. Same with Sarc. Maybe that’s just rose tinted glasses about the past on my part.
Trump broke Sarcasmic.
I mean he was always bien pensant and somewhat retarded, but during orangemanbad he became a fanatic.
Trump was like an 18% ABV 80-ouncer?
More like 190 proof.
True. Trump pushed that pussy over the edge and he broke full democrat Nazi.
Lying Jeffy never responded to support his accusation here? I’m shocked!
You got a citation with a link for that, Jeffy, or are you blowing smoke out of your ass like Pluggo does constantly?
That wasn't Canadian forest fires turning the skies orange earlier.
What the fuck about 'women feeling that they might be discriminated against' is racism?
Women are a race unto themselves.
There is more genetic difference between a man and a woman than there is between a woman and a female chimpanzee.
Look at the biologist over here.
Just read up on Steve Sailer.
https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1679988804168347648?t=Bi2Rerbg7PxJUzcZOkqw2w&s=19
KAMALA HARRIS: “When we invest in clean energy and electric vehicles and REDUCE POPULATION, more of our children can breath clean air and drink clean water.”
[Video]
Ya know, when I see a 11-second clip of any politician saying something seemingly outrageous, there is a very good chance that this clip is taken wildly out of context in order to give a misleading impression. So I was ready to pounce on this, and I went to the original source for her speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD5bNoaNNng&t=1098s&ab_channel=PBSNewsHour
(the clip in question comes from about the 26-minute mark of the full video)
and actually, the full context makes her look worse, not better. Right before that clip, she mentions “Imagine the impact on public health!” So seemingly she views public health as a vehicle to reduce population? It is ridiculous. She really is a brainless idiot.
We have a dementia patient and a brainless airhead in charge who makes Sarah Palin look smart. God help us.
So, one of the few times that you have shared something that wasn’t just wildly misleading, thanks for that Nardz.
Fat, 2 digit IQ child molesters don't get to speak
Room temperature... in Celcius.
So it all boils down to you don't like short clips?
It’s his nickname.
That is what I call a "Hitlerian slip". Where you accidentally say the wrong thing, but your inner Hitler 100% believes in it.
Or just a clever trial balloon, to see how the Dem market reacts. BTW, their core constituency is the progressive 1%.
If you listen to the crowd – they cheered the comment. Then again they might all be paid actors at this point. I don’t know anyone who would waste their time listening to her without compensation.
You could be right. The Kamela constituency wants to kill everyone.
Like the kids with Kamala in the NASA video?
Arrest, indict, and imprison the perjurious criminal “Doctor” Anthony Fauci..
Impeach Garland.
Impeach Mayorkas.
And last but not least, impeach the scumbag-in-chief Joe Biden. Yep, I said it yet again!
And I’m just going to keep on saying it over and over and over and over and over again here every single week until we the American people get what we voted for: some justice and accountability for the almost three and a half years (and counting) of absolute hell these bastards have put this country through because of their lies and crimes. What the hell are you waiting for “Speaker” McCarthy??
The HUNTER BIDEN FAKE BRIBERY SCANDAL! has fizzled out, Mikey.
Now what? Who do you sick Durham on next?
Typing it in all-caps doesn't make it true.
@squirrell ^
Try using more all caps next time, Pluggo. You need to sound more deranged there.
I just wish I could be there when your pedophilia is eventually exposed and you’re physically torn apart by you victim’s families. I hope the torture is very slow.
turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
A San Fran beer named after the presents that bums leave on the sidewalks and streets: Anchor Steamy Piles
Good. Now InBev can relocate Bud Light brewing to SFC. Call it "The Queen of Beers".
"The Drag Queen of Beers" would really hit the mark.
Longneck bottles ribbed for his pleasure.
Will the tips be shaped like ladydicks?
Aren't they already?
So they’re going to market Bud Light through the woke schools. And anyone who dissents is an anti trans bigot.
https://twitter.com/Correction2016/status/1680028044386353153?t=aEsU92yiVK67TpSpb5t5dg&s=19
A town of 438 resident of Unity, Maine will be forced to take in 600 migrants. The state is strong arming them.
You and I don't get along much, but you don't lie like Jeffy, and you know more than most. So I gots a question ...
Why does Mexico "let" so many people cross into the US? I'd love to find some good description of how this whole process works from their point of view, but I've never seen anything but US descriptions.
* Most of them are not Mexicans, and Mexico wants to get rid of them as a drain on the Mexican economy.
* Most of them are troublemakers (not criminals!) and Mexico wants to get rid of them.
* Mexico simply doesn't have the resources to prevent the internal migration to border areas, and hasn't got the resources to deal with migrants piled up at the border.
It's all a mystery to me.
Mexico takes in billions in remittances, thus petty laborers provide more value being shipped to the US, and the cartels pretty much control the government.
Fwiw, I did no further research on that tweet so who knows its veracity.
Mexico is corrupted at the highest levels and they work directly with the trafficking of migrants from cartels, a billion dollar industry. The payoffs go to officials and cops. It is also a secondary benefit for hiding drug transport across the border with many migrants acting as mules. Again kick backs to cartel connected politicians. It also hides the Mexican migrants that have a high remittance rate of money earned here, usually 30 to 40% of wages if family remains in Mexico.
There are also a significant portion of Mexicans that believe in La Reconquista, wherein they reclaim what was "stolen" from them by the US. It's in their interests to let an invading army travel northwards.
lol I don't lie. it is ridiculous. And I don't know why you are citing Nardz as an authority on anything. His knowledge base consists of right-wing cranks on Twitter.
Here is a thought: maybe there is no centralized plan for shuttling migrants around in Mexico. That migrants are more or less free to move about the country. That the central government doesn't have a whole lot of control over deciding who migrates to the American border.
That thought is obviously false and demonstrates your ignorance of the situation.
How is it obviously false?
Because of your ignorance of the situation, as I said.
So if I am ignorant of the situation, perhaps you would care to provide a link to relieve my ignorance while simultaneously proving your claim.
Do your own homework.
I'll take that as an answer that you cannot.
I can't bring you up to speed on the situation in Mexico with "a link". If you're actually interested in becoming knowledgeable about it you have some work to do.
Fine, then provide two links.
Lol. What a joke.
No, wveryone is just sick of your endless sea lioning. You demand endless ‘proof’ and then lie about what is presented.
You should go away, forever.
That's not true. The Mexican government doesn't like migrants from the south, so they are expediting their travels to the north.
And the criminal gangs, with whom the "government" of Mexico is in bed, are making billions trafficking the "migrants" to the USA.
That doesn't explain squat, such as why the Mexican government lets the southern foreigners cross their border. Surely cheaper and easier to stop them at the source. Have you looked at a map and see how short Mexico's southern border is?
It's also extremely rugged territory. They could stop most of the "migrants" by closing a few choke points. They won't, because the crime gangs make billions trafficking these people into the US.
Nardz posts actual sources and doesn’t disguise his feelings and beliefs in weasel words.
Lenin couldn’t have written that better, or Goebbels.
Jeffy lad, look at the responses. Clear and simple, informative, no weasel words. You are incapable of such comments. You are a propagandist first and last.
Nardz’ “sources” are right-wing morons.
Jeffy lad, look at the responses. Clear and simple, informative, no weasel words.
Oh I’ve read the responses. You’ll note that many of them contain an implicit assumption that migration in Mexico is according to some centralized plan. That the government or drug gangs or some ideological group is deliberately pushing migrants to and fro to serve some purposeful agenda.
So if you buy into this implicit assumption, then I can see how you find them informative. Sure seems to me that you are looking for what the centralized plan is for migration in Mexico. So of course you are unwilling to examine challenges to this assumption.
Hey Lying Jeffy, remember just hours ago when you said:
“Steve Sailer is a writer for alt-right publications and has written and defended explicitly racist things.”
Then wouldn’t back that assertion up?
Yeah, I'm still pretty curious about what Jeff's going to come up with.
Pepperidge Farms remembers. And so do I.
You’ll note that many of them contain an implicit assumption that migration in Mexico is according to some centralized plan.
In reality they describe a systemic process and the roles various groups play in it. Jeffy strawman’s this into a belief it must have formed due to a centralized plan must exist because doing so allows him to attack it when he cannot attack the actual comment. But this is not true. Groups take advantage of naturally evolving systems and circumstances all the the time. But But Jeffy denies this obvious fact because his initial and only conclusion is that the right is wrong and he will believe, or claim to believe, whatever is necessary to support that conclusion.
Lenin couldn’t have written that better, or Goebbels.
Whatever man. You catastrophize the deviation from libertarian orthodoxy whenever it personally hits home. There are so many millions of ways in which this world deviates from the libertarian ideal, and you choose this one to be so ghastly offended by. I wonder why.
Because you insist you’re the real libertarian here. When you are a global Marxist who shills for global Marxists daily, and is in no way libertarian. Then you label any information so with which you disagree as ‘alt-right’. Which is meaningless, except as a way for you to demonize anyone who disagrees with your leftist narrative.
Oh, and you’re a lying, sea lioning fatfuck pedo groomer.
I see you didn't rebut a single comment. All you did was insult them and the commenters.
Facts! Sources! Not just innuendo.
Okay, I will make this more explicit for you then.
Your original question:
Why does Mexico “let” so many people cross into the US?
carries an implicit premise that the Mexican government has the power or the legal authority to prevent migrants from crossing the border into the US, but chooses not to do so for some reason.
And I am challenging this implicit premise. What if the Mexican government is powerless, or lacks the legal authority, to stop migrants from leaving the country?
If this is the case, then asking the question "why does Mexico let people leave?" is pointless.
But, if I accept your implicit premise, then all of the other commenters may be right, I have no idea. Although I will note that none of them offered anything in the way of citations to bolster their claims.
So you're still not going answer the question and choose to pettifog about definitions instead.
It’s what he does. And it’s all he’s got. That and several industrial sized tubs of Ben & Jerry’s ‘sea lion surprise’.
Resources. Mexico doesn’t have the resources to perfectly police their borders, they don’t have the resources to care for others that travelled to their country, and they like the resources that these “exports” return to Mexico.
The government of Mexico is not permitted to police their border areas by the criminal gangs.
They are getting paid to stand down and don’t have the resources to tackle the narcolord problem.
Imagine the US press ridicule aimed at Mexican authorities if the son of a prominent narcolord was Hunter Biden. When I was there, I got the sense that Mexicans felt that the US should worry about its own house before saying theirs isn’t clean.
Kind of hard to clean our house while the Mexicans are emptying dump trucks of filth into it.
The libertarian solution is to decriminalize drugs, legalize prostitution, give back most of the tax money used for those to the net positive taxpayers and retain some for the adolescent child trafficking and prostitution that likely would still occur. End the welfare state and allow those seeking employment that don’t have a dangerous criminal record to come to the US, work the seasonal job, then return home to their family. It is a win for most folks except the narcolords and government. Government harder doesn’t solve the problem of too much government.
Wow, terrific. I agree 1,000% with this.
You just want open borders. You’re not a libertarian.
I'll put my Magic Unicorn to work on that right away.
It's so refreshing to see a good libertarian perspective that so clearly reveals the trenches of the culture war and their limitations.
The real answer according to Fiona, Ilya, and the rest of the open border zealots is because Mexico hates prosperity.
Apparently, the push is from an asylum rights group in the People’s Republic of Portland to use the college campus in Unity. The group ostensibly does not want the 600 “dreamers” in Portland.
Unity is a small, rural college town surrounded by small and medium ag including some Amish farmers. It is where the Maine Organic Farmers and Growers Association is located (Maine’s organic certification agency - they do research, hold seminars, and have an amazing late summer fair called the Common Ground).
Unity has Venn diagram overlap with libertarian, classical liberal, hippie, anarchist, and maybe some progressivism.
https://www.mainepublic.org/maine/2023-06-15/portland-area-groups-submit-proposal-to-use-unity-campus-as-transitional-housing-for-asylum-seekers
This
Group out of Unity working towards inclusivity in small-town Maine
https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/community/group-out-of-unity-working-towards-inclusivity-in-small-town-maine-community/97-236359fd-1ab5-49da-ae62-147534247bde
Also this
Unity College President Declines to Host Asylum Seekers Without Comprehensive Plan and Taxpayer Money
https://www.themainewire.com/2023/07/unity-college-president-declines-to-host-asylum-seekers-without-comprehensive-plan-and-taxpayer-money/
I personally haven't had an Anchor Steam beer in 15 years. I forgot they existed. I'm guessing the same is true of a number of other consumers. Maybe they failed partially because we just didn't need them anymore.
Good point. I got nostalgic when I read the blog post, but I haven’t had an Anchor Steam in at least ten years.
https://twitter.com/cwebbonline/status/1680071525230321666?t=xrga43IwKTvFJ_TPNTvzdw&s=19
Who said all political ads are boring? This is probably the hottest political ad you’ll ever see.
OHIO vote NO on August 8th
[Video]
Jeff is waiting for the drag queen version.
Why don't we require a prescription for condoms? It is a medical device. I need one for contacts. You should have to get an erection in front of the doctor, put the condom on, have the doctor check it for fit. Pay them $200 for the fitting fee. Why are we trusting individuals with this? Think of all the condom failures that could be prevented.
You have the kind of vision it takes to make it in the health care industry!
You have the kind of vision it takes to make it in the government run health care industry!
FTFY
^ This
Hottest yes. Also most insanely nonsensical. That was the Hank Phillips of political ads. Very obviously some borderline-insane AWFL targeting herself with her political ad.
Vote NO on what on August 8th? Everything? Republicans? Rubbers? Did they, ENB-style and Scott "Don't Say Gay" Shackford, rather deliberately avoid mentioning the bill or proposition because they don't want people to go see if it actually bans condoms (which, if ENB and Scott are any guide, it doesn't)?
I'm contributing to the oppression by the patriarchy by even asking these questions aren't I?
This girl throws better than at least half the commenters here (and anybody who works for Reason) I bet
https://twitter.com/SlumRNA_Dog/status/1679946071513141249?t=UPkHvQia5njC793bh8glzw&s=19
Holy shit look at the spin on that balloon what a proud father she must have
[Video]
Awesome.
Practice.
So Massie was able to raise the debt ceiling and protect Schiff from punishment, but couldn't stop cluster munitions being supplied to Ukraine...
https://twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1680232046545731584?t=YlwgPWp4RbmMyIHZ80D2XA&s=19
98 Republicans and 49 Democrats voted to prohibit the sale and transfer of cluster munitions to Ukraine.
Unfortunately the measure did not pass. Here is the roll call: [link]
"49 Democrats voted to prohibit the sale and transfer of cluster munitions to Ukraine."
Those 49 Democrats are the real heroes, because it's going to cost them far more than it will the Republican's who voted to prohibit the sale and transfer of cluster munitions.
The child groping Biden (D) will retaliate against them.
(Misclick
Cite?
STOP DEMAGOGUEING!
https://twitter.com/KanekoaTheGreat/status/1680007414001856512?t=SWx3AW9b7cjPZLXKUt5o0g&s=19
Glenn Beck: Did Joe Biden get 81 million legitimate votes?
Kari Lake: "Of course not. You don't lose 17 out of 18 bellwethers and win the most votes in the history of our country. You don't only win 16% of counties and win the most votes of anybody."
Beck: What do we have if we don't have faith in our elections?
Lake: "80% of republicans have no faith in our elections. They think they are fraught with fraud. 61% of independents and 30% of democrats say there is fraud in our elections. This is a taboo subject. The government censors people who talk about the election."
Lake: "President Trump won in 2020 and nobody wants to talk about that. They want to act like everything is fine. Now we have Joe Biden sitting in the White House. He was behind the Nord Stream explosion. He is behind pushing war. He is behind a dismal economy. He is behind censorship and we're sitting here saying, we have to be polite, we can't really talk about this."
@glennbeck
@KariLake
One nutty bitch talking to another nutty bitch.
So sorry that this is happening to you, Shrike.
He was hoping for a video of small children at a swimming pool.
Isn't that what happens when one of your socks talks to another one of your socks, Shrike?
Remember that turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
Both Trump and Biden have had the ability to completely disclose all the Kennedy Assassination files and both refused. Everyone personally involved is almost certainly dead or, at least, no longer serving anywhere in any professional capacity. The only reason not to disclose those files is because it shows the degree of involvement of American intelligence agencies in the assassination of a duly-elected and sitting American President. If that can be swept under the rug for 60 yrs. this November, and running, the degree to which tech, social elites, and the deep state absolutely pushed the 2020 election is not going to be disclosed any time soon.
Liberals Lose It After Cornel West Tells CNN That NATO Is To Blame For Ukraine Crisis
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/left-outraged-after-cornel-west-blames-nato-ukraine-crisis-cnn
"And I know that some of my left-wing comrades, ‘Oh it’s an invasion,’ but a criminal invasion provoked by the expansion of NATO, which is an instrument of U.S. global power," he said.
Wow, now that's a fucking surreal experience. I'm dead certain I've never heard Cornell West say anything I've ever agreed with before.
*vigorous headshake*
Yes. I am shocked myself
So, you just bring all the sides together to sit at the same table and talk it out.
And then cluster-bomb the fuck out of them.
War solved.
The comic needs more cannon fodder
https://rmx.news/ukraine/young-people-scared-to-leave-their-homes-as-more-videos-emerge-of-ukrainian-youth-being-forced-into-military/
Not to mention the gender discrimination, not letting men leave the country as war was imminent.
Ukraine can’t draft girls. Their supply of current and future porn actresses must be protected as it is a national resource.
Euro Tag channels occasionally post videos of Ukrainian einsatzgruppen grabbing young men and apparently sometimes boys off the streets of Ukraine to send them into Biden and Zely’s meat grinder.
Fight to the last Ukrainian for the bottom line of Biden and Zely!
https://rmx.news/hungary/antifa-activist-commits-suicide-after-hungarian-police-discover-70000-child-porn-files-on-his-computer/
An Antifa activist committed suicide after Hungarian police raided his house. However, the investigation is not over, as police want to know how he obtained 70,000 graphic pedophilia recordings, with many of them depicting the torture and rape of small children. The case, which is connected to the German Antifa scene, has spooked Hungary, with police discovering signs of a strange ritual close to where the man hung himself.
The massive child porn stash on the Antifa activist’s hard drive came as a shocking twist in a case that spans the left-wing Antifa scenes of Hungary and Germany. So far, the name of the activist has not been released by Hungarian police.
The man was a Hungarian Antifa activist believed to have played a major role in attacking individuals thought to be far-right activists on the streets of Budapest with the help of German activists in February of this year. During the investigation in connection with the street attacks, the police found the child porn on the man’s laptop after his partner’s apartment was raided. Police found no evidence that his partner was involved in any child porn crimes.
Tony recently traveled to Budapest?
So I see the gray box brigade has responded to my post and based on replies to them, the boxes are attacking the veracity of the website linked. For the record I cannot guarantee the accuracy of any website on the planet including the .govs. In this case it appears that the story is based on police reports that are in the public record in Hungary. I am not fluent in Hungarian so attempts on my part to verify the details would likely end in frustration. But the gray box critics are free to do so and if this is a hoax I will apologize for the post. What I found interesting about the story is the seeming prevalence of pedophilia amongst Antifa and trans movement members. I could be wrong about that but I've seen multiple reports in the public record that would seem to lead to that conclusion. Again anyone anywhere at any time is free to debunk my opinions.
? The only response to your post is Chumby.
Never mind
The concern that I raised was only partly about the validity of the stories in question. They may be true, I don't know. It was more the fact that you are repeating literal state-run propaganda. Do you even realize this?
Lying Jeffy is against state run propaganda. Just ask him, he’ll tell you.
And what is it with citing all of these weird news sites? I have never heard of rmx.news until Gaear above cited a few articles. Quite a few of you seem to cite only Twitter or Zerohedge, or podcasts, or random Youtube channels, or obscure alternative 'news' sources. Not even Fox News so much anymore. How do you know that the stories at these sites are offering anything that would count as 'reliable' news? How do you know that they aren't just lying to you by omission, or worse?
Just digging into rmx.news a little bit, here is its About page:
https://rmx.news/static/about/
Remix is published by FWD affairs LLC, Budapest, Hungary. Remix is funded in part by the Batthany Lajos Foundation in Budapest.
So if you dig a little bit, here is a story about FWD Affairs LLC:
https://hungarianspectrum.org/tag/fwd-affairs/
It is run by Patrick Egan, who has direct ties to the Fidesz party in Hungary (Viktor Orban's party). And if you look into the Batthany Lajos Foundation, it too is a Hungarian state-funded foundation. This site, rmx.news, appears to be pretty much Hungarian state propaganda. And people here are falling for it.
Trump-Tards like their “alternate facts” as KellyAnne Conway says.
Oh fuck, alternative media. What if people stop believing the narratives George pays you to push?
The Never Clumpers follow their scripts.
“Alternate facts” You mean crazy stuff like believing only women can get pregnant?
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
How do you know that the stories at these sites are offering anything that would count as ‘reliable’ news?
They don't.
How do you know that they aren’t just lying to you by omission, or worse?
They don't care. Their goal is simply to pass it on.
It's interesting to compare all these criticisms of the right not caring about truth to the left's own major media up to and including the NYT and WAPO who routinely lie and propagandize for the left. But leftists have no concern about that even though it has thoroughly corrupted their institutions.
Like when all of you morons just “pass on” articles and posts that confirm your biases? Or when shrike passes on a link that actually refutes his talking point.
In other words, you can't rebut the message itself, so you shoot the messenger.
Try again, this time with feeling, and four part harmony.
Gaear Grimsrud posted two stories from rmx.news, one about Ukraine military conscripts, and one about an Antifa activist who committed suicide.
I am expressing concern that by citing all of these alternative 'news' sites, including rmx.news, that it opens up the possibility of being misled, either intentionally or unintentionally, by the agenda of those running those sites. In particular, rmx.news sure looks to be a Hungarian government propaganda mill.
So I think that because those two articles are from state-run propaganda, it raises a red flag. If I cited a 'news' article written by the CCP, you would laugh me off the comment board, and for good reason. I think it behooves us to be, at a minimum, more skeptical and more critical of these types of articles.
And more broadly, I think that we owe it to ourselves to evaluate our own news sources in a more critical light and only use ones that are known to be more reputable, and not just ones that are telling us what we want to hear. Many of us love Glenn Greenwald's message of being opposed to war and opposed to domestic surveillance, and those messages are terrific, but - let's be honest - his Youtube channel is not exactly fair and balanced. If I want to know the full story about any matter involving, say, domestic surveillance, I am not going to consult only Glenn Greenwald. He is one important data point, but I'm not going to trust him to be my only source of news on the matter, because he has made his personal bias on the matter so very crystal clear.
That is my ultimate point here.
Lying Jeffy only wants news from TOP MEN!
Wait til he hears about the ties between the democrat party and Google, NBC, CBS, Washington Post, CNN, New York Times, Fox News, Facebook, Disney...
Pretty sure he’s in on the same emails.
Is ‘craft’ really just about non-lagers? I thought it was more about scale. Because if it is about scale, then craft brews only exist today because of the 1979 brewing law (which yes allowed for more non-lagers) and more importantly the distribution ‘innovation’ called brew pubs or tap rooms.
The brewpub in the US dates back to 1982 – Yakima Brewing. Following from a 1970’s movement in England related to ‘tied pubs’ v ‘free pubs’. Bars in the US were always tied to a particular distributor even if they were more independent than the ‘tied pubs’ in UK. Brewpubs caught on pretty quickly with a generation that didn’t want to go to their father’s bar. And the next too as they have exploded since 2008. Every brewpub has its own on-site microbrewery. And because they are independently owned and niche-y, they are far more amenable to selling bottles or casks from a microbrewery that chooses not to operate its own brewpub.
Today distribution is damn near impossible for smaller entities. And it can only get worse. There’s only a few supermarket chains. Liquor stores are becoming more chains, less momnpop. That means centralized purchasing. The distributors to bars – just part of Big Pee. No distribution, no revenue, no product.
If a product is distributed through supermarkets or liquor stores, they are basically no longer craft scale. Which means their only exit is being purchased by Big Pee and becoming a mere brand. Or going broke.
Is ‘craft’ really just about non-lagers?
Sam Adams Boston Lager?
That's not even a craft beer company anymore.
My point was just how the 'craft beer' industry has changed. And its not really about the brewmaster or production or the marketing of non-lagers to lager-drinking Americans. Of the 9709 licensed breweries in the US:
157 are considered large/noncraft (the ones that had dwindled to 80 in the early 80's and were down to 48 in 2015) - maybe stuff like Leinenkugel, Point, Rolling Rock if they are still independent and distributed via stores. Assume these were all mainly lager I guess.
261 are considered regional/craft. 178 as recently as 2015. Sold via stores. That was Anchor Steam and for years only them. Boston Beer is maybe them too as is most 'craft' everything that can be bought in stores. Including mostly stuff that is probably just a brand now and owned by Big Pee.
9291 are micro level - 4625 as recently as 2015 - and distributed through brew pubs and such. THAT is the craft beer industry. Not the stuff you see in a liquor store.
I get you. For example Shipyard Export is in all the stores, but Federal Jacks has several on tap that you can only get there.
Craft is what large beer makers put on thier secondary product lines to tell a little lie about it being special.
Good beer comes in a growler.
RFK Jr. says COVID was ‘ethnically targeted’ to spare Jews
https://nypost.com/2023/07/15/rfk-jr-says-covid-was-ethnically-targeted-to-spare-jews/
Well not really.
https://twitter.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1680227322509635595
Speaking of RFK:
https://twitter.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1679287184254287873
I find this way more interesting coming from someone who would arrest "deniers".
Yeah, turns out he didn't say that either.
I posted a link to a poll a couple days ago that had RFK Jr. and Trump with the highest approve minus disapprove ratings in the presidential race. With RFK actually ahead because Trump's negatives are higher. I'm not going to predict anything based on this poll even assuming that it's accurate. But I find it pretty interesting that people seem to hate the anti establishment candidates less than the Bidens and Pences of the world. And now we've got Cornel West throwing shade all over the MIC and maybe taking the Green Party with him. Of course the Reason libertarians see all of these people as a threat to their cushy status quo. Whatever happens next is anybody's guess but it's going to be pretty interesting. And hilarious watching the Reason editors squirm.
Vivek might push for 2nd in the R primary judging by the reaction to his Friday performance.
RFK, from what I saw, basically made 2 separate claims. But those separate claims presented in close proximity beg the question.
1) US/West has been creating virus to specifically target certain racially distinctive genes
2) jews and chinamen are relatively more resistant, or less susceptible, to covid
This guy is not a serious candidate. I know Tramp Cultists like MotherLament like him.
RFK Jr. says COVID was ‘ethnically targeted’ to spare Jews
By Jon Levine
July 15, 2023
NY Post
Give me the link Shrike, because I'm pretty sure you never actually read it and are fabricating your own bullshit.
Well, here’s Levine’s source for the story, looks like a good old fashioned smear job: press dinner explodes in war of words and farting
Kennedy's response:
I have never, ever suggested that the COVID-19 virus was targeted to spare Jews. I pointed out — during an off-the-record conversation — that the U.S. and other governments are developing ethnically targeted bioweapons and that a 2021 study of the COVID-19 virus shows that COVID-19 appears to disproportionately affect certain races since the furin cleave docking site is most compatible with Blacks and Caucasians and least compatible with ethnic Chinese, Finns, and Ashkenazi Jews.
In that sense, it serves as a kind of proof of concept for ethnically targeted bioweapons. I do not believe and never implied that the ethnic effect was deliberately engineered.
That study is here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32664879/
Jonathan Levine exploited this conversation to smear me by association with an outlandish conspiracy theory. This cynical maneuver is consistent with the mainstream media playbook to discredit me as a crank — and by association, to discredit revelations of genuine corruption and collusion.
For example:
1. Government / Big Tech collusion to censor dissent on social media;
2. Fauci et al’s suppression of lab leak hypothesis;
3. Censoring of information questioning COVID vaccine safety & efficacy.
Link to Kennedy's statement.
Didn't work, let's try that again: https://twitter.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1680227322509635595
Then why is it already on YouTube?
Literally right after GG posts the actual quote lol.
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit
Tucker ends Mike Pence’s career in 60 seconds
Tucker: Hold up. You’re saying that the priority is sending Ukraine tanks while American cities are falling apart?
Pence: Not my problem.
So, Tucker wants the tanks sent to American cities?
Go on...
Leave it to Tucker to go for the dishonest framing of the issue.
It's a false choice to frame the issue as EITHER send tanks to Ukraine OR reduce crime in American cities.
And Pence has half a point that it is not the job of the President to be the chief law enforcement officer for every city. Law enforcement is a local issue. Although his response was given very poorly.
Tucker is a dishonest demagogue and Pence is a moralizing empty suit. But this entire event is a complete fraud.
Leave it to Tucker to go for the dishonest framing of the issue.
It's no surprise that certain members of the commentariat who make a point out of dishonestly framing issues and dishonestly restating what others say are big fans and defenders of Tucker.
Chemleft, you obviously were too fucking lazy to click the link and decided to attack my abbreviated summary instead. There wasn’t an either/or choice being presented.
But hey, you still tricked Sarcasmic. It’s not hard, but congrats anyway.
I clicked the link. He completely framed the issue as either concern for the war in Ukraine or concern for crime in American cities.
They're two separate issues. That Pence or anyone is expressing support for Ukraine has zero bearing whatsoever on concern for crime in American cities. That's the dishonesty. You know this, and don't care.
Pence has the wrong priorities.
After Pence is officially out of the race, which may be real soon, you think he heads to Ukraine and volunteers for front line duty with the foreign legion?
There's one. Cue you-know-who to drop a turd in 3... 2...
Oh, Jesse has ME on mute now, dontchaknow.
That must be nice. I’ve been begging him to mute me for years. Not having his disgusting dingleberries glued to all my posts would be a wish come true.
Stop trolling, attention whoring and generally being a retard, and you might stop having people responding harshly.
Sarcs response when people ask him to mute them.
sarcasmic 3 weeks ago
Flag Comment Mute User
And stop calling you out on your retardation? Not a chance.
Take a hike pussy. Crawl back under your rock.
Can you give some advice what a guy should do to get JesseAz to mute him?
Be spam. Your ignorant posts are too hilarious to hide. Watching you sarc and Jeff is the special Olympics of political discussion. The 10th season where you all pretend to be victims has gotten old though.
In Mike the Sea Lion, one illustration will address when the sea lion complains about being called out on sea lying.
LOL @ you guys defending Pence.
Sarc thinks he's defending Jeffy, but the little retard has no clue what's going on.
He was second only to Trump until they got new instructions.
Pointing out Tucker's dishonesty is not defending Pence.
That's why I don't converse with these idiots. You say something about X and you're attacked for their imaginings about your views on Y and Z. Then if you're dumb enough to defend yourself from their lies by pointing out what you really think, they try to gaslight you by calling you a gaslighting liar. It like banging your head against a wall of stupidity.
He’s paid to post narratives and redirect conversation here, you little retard. That’s why. If you weren’t so desperate for a friend you’d realize you’re sucking up to the Web 1.0 equivalent of a bot.
"You say something about X and you’re attacked for their imaginings about your views on Y and Z."
This is literally what you're doing right fucking now, when you've got 99% of everyone on mute and yet you're still making accusations.
Self-awareness isn't a Sarcasmic superpower.
Then again we're talking about people who, despite FOX losing in court, still believe Tucker was telling the truth about voting machines.
It's not like his audience is very bright.
Show the math!
There are times when I feel like we really are living in a postmodernist hell. Both teams have now embraced the concept of MY PERSONAL TRUTH, where "Truth" is determined either by (a) a deep personal exploration of one's innermost thoughts and feelings (Team Blue), or (b) what a majority of my friends and media sources think and tell me must be true (Team Red). At some point, and not in the distant future either, it would be very nice to get back to a concept of "truth" as our best understanding of objective reality, regardless of our innermost feelings on the matter, and regardless of what a majority of my friends think on the matter. But I don't know how we are going to get there.
Plus, beliefs are just as powerful as math.
Trust in government institutions blindly- the one true libertarian.
I think that is referred to as statist and top man fallacy.
Jeff likes to be the bottom man.
Bottom man phallacy
You misspelled ‘phallically’.
Holy fuckballs, he actually said that.
"That's not my concern."
Surely he must have given some context in the following comments that make that not a completely insane thing to have said as a US presidential candidate, that the plight of American cities is "not his concern" compared to Ukraine.
Surely?
We are waiting in suspence.
He does have half a point, because the President is not in charge of law enforcement in every American city. But he stated it very poorly and dismissively.
A pensive response.
Pointing out Tucker’s dishonesty is not defending Pence. /Jeff
Proceeds to defend Pence.
Here, let me make this more explicit for you.
Pointing out Tucker's use of a false dichotomy is not defending Pence.
Pointing out that Pence has half a point when he responds "not my problem" as interpreted as saying that the President is not the chief law enforcement officer of every American city, while also calling him a "moralizing empty suit", is a pretty weak-ass defense.
A defense, none the less.
He didn't point out a false dicotomy. He simply said "that's not my concern".
If you're not defending Pence then why are you inventing excuses for Pence?
*I* pointed out Tucker's false dichotomy, not Pence.
You are wrong.
It's not even half it's 1/270th of a point.
The president is elected by the citizens of this country, not Ukrainians.
The taxpayers of the US have no obligation to Kiev, even if it can result in a nuclear exchange with the world’s largest nuclear power.
The highly competitive craft beer market that might have played a role in Anchor's final demise, ironically, might not exist without the brewery, which survived San Francisco's devastating 1906 earthquake, Prohibition, and some of the darkest days of American beer history.
All of those things pale in comparison to what's going on in San Francisco now. At this point, an earthquake would be doing billions of dollars in improvements to the city.
A tidal wave might wash clean all the human feces on the sidewalks and streets.
But think of the poor fish!
They might carp about that situation.
To be fair, Anchor's neighborhood is nowhere near the homeless crisis and sidewalk-shitting parts of the city. It's in the Potrero area. Not in the residential area, but in the old school industrial area, which a lot of hipsters are revitalizing. No panhandling, no street shitting, not open air drug sales, etc. Before the neighboring residential area got gentrified, it was quite a working class area. Still is in many ways.
Their demise is largely due to the city and county government, which are outright hostile to business and the working class. But the cultural horror stories coming out of San Francisco are coming out of other areas.
Christian Conservative couple moves in next door to a restaurant with gay owners flying a Pride flag. Hilarious hijinks ensue.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/food/interactive/2023/front-porch-restaurant-virginia-dispute/
And by "hilarious hijinks", I mean "petty feuds and lawsuits".
Wahabi Christians are persecuted in this country you know - despite dictating policy to one major political party, filling the courts with their born-again nutjobs, and dominating most state and local governments.
"filling the courts with their born-again nutjobs"
You make the stupidest claims sometimes.
Ketanji Brown Jackson is the only one who might, maybe, kinda, possibly qualify. Gorsuch is Episcopalian (but was raised Catholic), Breyer and Kagan were Jewish, and the rest are Catholics.
As 35% of the United States population qualifies as evangelical, that's not exactly court representation.
turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.
What's a "gay-themed restaurant"?
Is there some sort of special gay cuisine?
Do the staff dress up as gays and wear gay hats?
Is the menu written in gay and customers have to try and pronounce the exotic gay names of dishes on the menu?
The food is so expensive there it can be said they try to charge you up the ass.
You don't want to know how they get their Kopi luwak.
Each barstool seats four.
When I swallow the coffee beans myself it becomes "ethical kopi luwak". I do get a little jittery.
I hate that I understood this...
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I prefer Sam Adams Boston lager,
Their honey porter is better.
A tragic story about some of the migrants who were on the refugee boat bound for Greece that sank.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/14/asia/pakistan-migrant-crisis-boat-libya-greece-intl-hnk-dst/index.html
Sadly, Abuzar did not make it.
Wait wait wait
You're linking to CNN?
Oh dear, by your style, that's linking to a disreputable source, so all consideration stops right there.
o dear, o dear, o dear
No news source is 100% unbiased, but CNN is certainly better than literal state-run propaganda.
I can see your point but considering it's CNN I'm not so certain they're better.
If:
A - State-run propaganda == 100% bias.
B - CNN agrees with state 95% of the time.
it does not follow that:
C - CNN is only 95% biased and thus better than A.
because:
D - The 5% difference is potentially due to the fact that CNN believes the state-run propaganda doesn't go quite far enough.
Spot on.
So it is CNN. Is this particular story inaccurate in some way?
Why didn't you ask Jeff this above? Weird.
Poor Abuzar, he apparently had a poor decision making process, perhaps inherited from his family.
This event being a Darwin correction?
Were there any bears on the refugee boat?
They were stuck in the passengers trunks in the hold and regrettably never got to maul again.
What a waste of elephants.
Shrike often gets stuck on the trunks of young boys.
Desperate people get rewarded by reality.
The greater tragedy here was Merkel's promises that they would have a better life. Still paying dividends since 2014.
Yup. The blood is on Merkel's hands for this and thousands of other incidents.
So, I was just watching some Jonathan Haidt videos where he was explaining his Moral Foundations Theory and how it applied to liberals and conservatives.
He made the comment that in his view, the conservative version of the moral concept of ‘fairness’ is basically like karma. If you work hard, you should get rewarded; if you don’t work hard, you should suffer, and that this result is fair to them, even if it results in a person suffering. Furthermore, they tend to view karma like it is an iron law of the universe, almost like gravity; and that wealth redistribution schemes like welfare, which would try to alleviate the suffering of this person who didn’t work hard, are fundamentally immoral because they are violating this iron law of karma. Fundamentally, to them, welfare is immoral not fundamentally because it is theft of tax money, but because it violates this iron law of karma which dictates that slackers deserve to suffer.
And your comment reminded me of Haidt’s discussion here. For desperate people, the moral result is suffering, because that is the iron law of karma.
You are confusing desperate people with lazy people.
Totally not leftist Jeffy denigrating conservatives with borrowed strawmen…….. again.
Somehow you basically completely ignore it was shut down because it was poorly run by its Japanese buyer, Sapporo.
Which is not unlike what has happened to A-B. When they sold out to In-Bev, they basically gutted the company and it's run by people who don't like A-B or its products
Strictly speaking Maytag didn’t sell it to Sapporo. He sold it to the Griffin Group led by former Skyy vodka execs Foglio & Greggor in 2010. They went on to try expanding production to four times the capacity but weren’t smart enough to try doing it someplace cheaper than San Fran and conditions worsened.
In 2017 they bailed and sold to Sapporo, who probably didn’t do enough homework, and probably came in with a “we have to make this dump profitable one way or another” attitude further pushing employees away. Thus the groundwork was laid for unionization which happened right about the start of the pandemic. Unsurprisingly that 3 year contract with the union ended poorly given how expensive San Fran is.
Sure, Boehm spins it like it was competition that killed them but, yes, he leaves out the incompetence of Griffin, the likely corporate culture shock with Sapporo, and considerable help from the union.
Yep. Rarely does the death of a company have just one murderer. There are thousands of paper cuts down the line that eventually bleed the company until it dies. We could change the company to Kmart (and Sears), Bed Bath & Beyond, Wachovia Bank, etc., and the story isn't much different.
Anchor had its own problems. Part of what made it great also made it hard to compete. They were always a small brewery, and not a lot of variation of styles going on. All their beers tended to be hoppy and strong, even their small beer was very hoppy. That was great when the fashion was for hoppy beers. But then the market changed and overly hoppy styles started to slip in favor of more malty, fruity, and sour styles.
That's not a small thing. They could have expanded their operations outside of SF and kept their existing brewery for just the Steam Beer. But Steam Beer had become old. Only the grizzled craft brew afficianado cares about Steam Beer. And that strong hoppy beer just isn't for the mass market palate. Doesn't mean they should have put out a yellow blonde lager, but their flagship ale just wasn't mainstream enough when craft breweries went mainstream.
Another feature/problem was that they were too employee focused. This is a good thing, but doesn't help when you're brewery is only operating Mon-Fri because every employee gets the weekend off. That's certainly their choice, but hard to compete when you deliberately are 15-25% less productive than you could be.
And finally, they were expensive as heck. Not terribly so, but back before inflation a six pack of Anchor Steam was running around $8.99 while Sierra Nevada Pale Ale was only $6.99. So it was definitely a "premium" brand. Fine in a niche market, but premium breweries are a dime a dozen now.
Oh, and their distinctive glass bottles might have raised costs a bit too. Not fancy, just not like everyone else's. And changing it would have hurt their brand. I wonder how much the bottle touched their margins.
But they could have weathered all that. The real problem was... let's be honest... San Francisco. Even with owning their own brewery, they're still in the most expensive place to do business in the US. Expanding operations would have been prohibitive in both time, permits, and expense. They were always a local brewery, from their origins to their work culture to how they operated, but the local government was not their friend.
Oh, and their distinctive glass bottles might have raised costs a bit too. Not fancy, just not like everyone else’s. And changing it would have hurt their brand. I wonder how much the bottle touched their margins.
Most breweries are switching to cans. Even the small ones. I wonder if that would have made a difference.
Anchor Brewing had been offering at least some varieties in cans as far back as 2014.
Well Anchor did have cans. Did not know this, must have been new. But I grabbed a six pack of Anchor Steam in cans yesterday. Good stuff. But I still prefer bottles. I am so old...
Speaking of Mexico...
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4098815-mexico-files-complaint-accusing-texas-of-breaking-boundary-laws-with-floating-barriers/
So here you go ML, here is one of your heroes Greg Abbott 'enforcing the border'. However it is likely illegal and it is interfering with a private kayaking business, and will likely lead to more drownings from people trying to cross but getting stuck in the barrier.
Is this what you have in mind?
The kayaks should stay on the Texas side of the river anyway.
“So here you go ML, here is one of your heroes Greg Abbott”
Ha, ha. You say the damndest shit sometimes, Jeffy, when you’re trying to craft a smear. I don’t even actually know what Abbott looks like, but oh well.
“and will likely lead to more drownings from people trying to cross but getting stuck in the barrier.”
So?
Don’t try to cross illegally then. Enter the US the way your supposed to.
When my brother and sister emigrated to the US they followed the rules, and now one is a citizen and the other almost.
But if they’d fucked around and ended up drowning in the Detroit river or something, I’d be very sad, but I’d also realize that it was their own damn fault for doing something illegal and stupid.
Man I wish I would have watched Jonathan Haidt videos much earlier.
Before, I would have been appalled and a little bit disgusted that you would show an utter lack of concern for migrants who face death for little more than trying to make a better life for themselves.
But after watching some of his videos, now I understand more where you are coming from. Because to the conservative, the moral principle of "fairness" is basically encapsulated in the statement "actions have consequences", and to them it would be fundamentally immoral to shield a person from the consequences of his/her actions, even if the result is death. Furthermore because the conservative places about equal moral weight on this concept of fairness, the concept of authority (in this case, laws), and the concept of sanctity (in this case, the nation-state), the conservative will tend to believe that enforcing laws to defend the sacred concept of the nation-state even if it results in the death of those who break those laws is fundamentally the moral position on the matter.
It makes so much more sense to me now.
You were the one defending laws that must stay in place until everyone submits.
That's because he's a retarded piece of shit with no actual principles.
Based on this realization, it seems as though those of us libertarians who favor a more deregulated border are never going to have conservative support on this front. Because to them it is a moral question, not merely a question of taxpayer expenditure or a question of effectiveness.
To the moral mind of the conservative, the migrants who cross the border without the correct papers, are tantamount to defiling a sacred holy place of worship. They are beyond trespassers, they are beyond even criminals. They are blasphemers and sacrilegious against the sacred nation-state of America. They will never consent to legitimate the blasphemy of the defilers. This is why border security is such a triggering issue for them. It touches on so many aspects of their moral mind: fairness (discussed above), loyalty (Americans over foreigners), authority (laws), sanctity (America itself).
The only way "open border libertarians" can see progress on this front is with help from liberals, because they place a much higher value on the moral concept of caring than conservatives do. They are moved much more by the plight and suffering of the migrants than conservatives, and they place more weight on this moral concept than they do on ones like authority or sanctity.
This is the part where you feign concern for anyone other than yourself and your slaver agenda. Than assert moral superiority of the leftists, while still lying and claiming you are not one.
Leftists, including you, have no morality. You’re like a malignant tumor seeking to devour its host.
Face it Pedo Jeffy, your soulless filth. Just like your democrat fellow travelers.
“a little bit disgusted that you would show an utter lack of concern for migrants who face death for little more than trying to make a better life for themselves.”
They’re not refugees on the run from genocide, you weasely fuck.
They’re trying to save money and cue jump, by breaking the law and taking stupid risks. If they were looking to make a better life for themselves by robbing a liquor store, I’m not going to rage if they get shot doing so.
Also, I bet Jonathan Haidt would call you a disingenuous weasel too.
Right and now I understand better why conservatives like you think that migrants like them deserve death. Because that is the only way that the world can be 'fair' in the conservative mind. Individuals *must* face the consequences of their actions, and it would be the greater moral crime to shield them from those consequences than for them to die. I get it.
Nobody said they "deserve death" you mendacious fuck. Everything coming out of you is sophistry and bad faith. Why is that?
Because to the conservative, the moral principle of “fairness” is basically encapsulated in the statement “actions have consequences”, and to them it would be fundamentally immoral to shield a person from the consequences of his/her actions, even if the result is death.
It's interesting that Jeffey asserts this as the conservative position and denigrates it. Stated slightly differently without the loaded language it becomes "people are free to make their own choices but that doesn't make me responsible for the consequences" which is the basis of libertarianism. Exactly no one is surprised to discover he denigrates libertarian principles.
One wonders why a Canadian cares how the United States enforces or doesn’t enforce its border with Mexico. Nothing better to do with his time, apparently.
What a nationalist Mike is.
It's just a shit-tossing attempt at calumny on Mike's part, as I've told the sealion 30 or 40 times already.
Next time he has an opinion on Ukraine, I'll tell him he's not allowed.
Ha
Next time he makes stupid noises with his mouth, just drown him out with an air horn in the ear.
I hope that leaves you enough time to go acquire an air horn. Sorry, I didn't mean to make this a late night WalMart challenge.
Once again mike the dummy doesn’t answer any questions.
It’s just an opinion.
And thus, Anchor Steam goes the way of Shmaltz Brewing, producer of Mizek's favorite beer.
Sic transit gloria Chumby.
A vorbit vulpea carpatica.
Is talking Balkan like a vulgar Bulgar protected speech ?
I toured the Anchor Brewing Company's brewery one month ago, right after the company announced it was limiting beer distribution outside California. The employee's disgust for Sapporo's mismanagement over the past six years was overwhelming: the Japanese simply had no idea what they had bought, but acted like they knew everything.
The coup de grace was discontinuing the Christmas Ale because it was "too expensive." That brewery is tiny; the Christmas Ale represents a sliver of its production but a lot of its tradition. Cutting the Christmas Ale on cost grounds is absurd.
Oh, and redesigning the packaging worked really well.
Sapporo killed Anchor Brewing, not unionization or liberalism.
Since they owned it, Sapporo seppuka?
No, it was just the ghost of Harry Carrey.
Oh, old Bob and Tom. I love that his ghost was always drunk.
*applause*
No, see, that doesn't actually track.
If a business is fundamentally sound but just being mismanaged by a conglomerate (particularly for a relatively short time, given Sapporo only took over in 2017), the logical thing is for the mismanaging conglomerate to sell it off to someone who thinks they can manage it better. There are all sorts of turnaround funds in this country that specifically exist do that, after all. The more the problem is simple reversible bad decisions by management, the more the money the mismanaging company can actually recover by selling it to someone competent (or at least who thinks they're competent).
No, a business gets shut down and its assets liquidated, rather than sold off as an operating concern, when nobody else is willing to buy the business because nobody thinks new management can fix the problems with the business.
Now, maybe the California/San Francisco political regime or the unionization weren't, in fact, major problems for Anchor. But they are actual structural problems outside the remit of a new owner to fix, which make them plausible explanations (or at least contributing factors) for a shutdown and liquidation of assets instead of a sale of the brewer.
"No, a business gets shut down and its assets liquidated, rather than sold off as an operating concern, when nobody else is willing to buy the business because nobody thinks new management can fix the problems with the business."
It may also be a way for the owner to get out from under all the things holding it down. Seems somewhat unlikely that such a storied name and unique product will disappear forever.
Although we can only hope if it does re-appear some time in the future that they get the product(s) right and it's not just price-point high volume swill with a historic label.
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Japanese company shuts down underperforming subsidiary
Sad but not unforseen
Maybe if they were to put pictures of someone really attractive on the labels, Like Vermin Boothead or Tokyo Pink... Would that help?
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Eric, this is disappointingly below Reason's usual standards for journalism. I guess a lot of writers who are not specific to the industry get the brewing parts wrong (steam beer is brewed warm for a lager, not compared to "most beer") or the tasting parts wrong (whatinhell are "foggy" flavors), but if you can't even correctly cite the Brewers Association when you link their page and data in the same sentence, that's just poor work.