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Federal Trade Commission

Court Greenlights Microsoft Acquisition of Video Game Powerhouse Activision Blizzard

Plus: California social media law could backfire, Massachusetts may ban the sale of phone location data, and more...

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 7.12.2023 9:30 AM

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Activision Blizzard logo on phone in front of screen with Microsoft logo | Cfoto/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom
(Cfoto/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom)

A judge has rejected the FTC's attempt to block Microsoft's purchase of the Call of Duty company. In another blow to the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) aggressive anti-merger policies, a federal court has denied the agency's request for it to halt Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard. The FTC sought a preliminary injunction against the $70 billion deal, which would have delayed it going forward while the FTC fought it in an internal court.

In a decision released yesterday, Judge Jacqueline Scott Corley of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California denied the FTC's request.

Corley's decision dashes the FTC's hopes of blocking Microsoft, which makes the gaming console Xbox, from buying Activision Blizzard, which makes the hit video game Call of Duty.

"The gist of the FTC's complaint is Call of Duty is so popular, and such an important supply for any video game platform, that the combined firm is probably going to foreclose it from its rivals for its own economic benefit to consumers' detriment," wrote Corley in her decision. But "the FTC has not shown it is likely to succeed on its assertion the combined firm will probably pull Call of Duty from Sony PlayStation, or that its ownership of Activision content will substantially lessen competition in the video game library subscription and cloud gaming markets."

On Friday, the FTC's temporary ban on the deal going forward will be lifted, unless the FTC gets an extension from an appeals court.

"The F.T.C. sued Microsoft in its administrative court last year, but that court does not have the legal authority to stop the deal from closing," notes The New York Times. "In June, the F.T.C. asked Judge Corley to take that step, saying it feared Microsoft was on the verge of completing the transaction despite the government's concerns."

The legal system worked:

A fair and neutral court has reached the correct conclusion about Activision Blizzard's merger with Microsoft based on facts and the law.

The judge's ruling rejects the FTC's ideologically-driven attempt to prevent a deal that benefits gamers and allows…

— Lulu Cheng Meservey (@lulumeservey) July 11, 2023

"We're grateful to the Court in San Francisco for this quick and thorough decision and hope other jurisdictions will continue working towards a timely resolution," said Brad Smith, vice chair and president of Microsoft, in a statement. "As we've demonstrated consistently throughout this process, we are committed to working creatively and collaboratively to address regulatory concerns."

The FTC's loss here is part of a larger losing streak in court, where judges haven't been terribly sympathetic to the Biden administration and FTC Chair Lina Khan's aggressive application of antitrust laws, particularly against tech companies. Earlier this year, a federal court declined to issue an FTC-requested injunction against Meta's purchase of the virtual reality fitness company Within Unlimited.

Courts have also rebuffed the FTC's attempt to declare Facebook an illegal monopoly in the realm of "personal social networking services" and thwarted Department of Justice attempts to stop U.S. Sugar's acquisition of Imperial Sugar and the merger of UnitedHealth Group and Change Healthcare.

"All these court losses are making their threats look more like a paper tiger," Adam Kovacevich, the chief executive of tech trade group Chamber of Progress, told the Times. Ashley Baker, a director of public policy for the think tank Committee for Justice, said the FTC had "crossed the line to being reckless with the cases they are bringing."


FREE MINDS

California's social media law could backfire. Chamber of Progress counsel Jess Miers details the problems with a dangerous bill before the California legislature. The measure (Senate Bill 680) is part of a wave of legislation aimed at childproofing the internet. And like so many others, it could have major unintended consequences.

SB 680 "broadly restricts Internet companies from using designs, algorithms, and features that could cause online 'addiction' for kids," explains Miers, who testified before California legislators yesterday in opposition to the bill. She continues:

The broad definition of addiction would discourage websites from hosting California youth users, cutting them off entirely from crucial resources, support, and information that teens regularly rely upon.

Further, because social media companies are not in the position to judge what types of content will trigger addiction in any individual youth user, the companies will steer clear of any designs, algorithms, or features intended to improve online experiences for teens.

For example, the bill prohibits the use of algorithms that amplify "self harm" content. Websites like Google rely heavily on algorithms to identify signs of self harm and automatically steer users to self help resources. SB 680 would prohibit this mechanism.

More here.

The California bill echoes some of the worst elements of a proposal before Congress called the Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA), which would create a "duty of care" standard for any "online platform that connects to the internet and that is used, or is reasonably likely to be used, by a minor." Under KOSA, tech companies would have to take steps to "prevent and mitigate" their services from provoking mental health problems, substance abuse, or other harmful behaviors in minors. KOSA's vague definitions could lead to a lot of positive or neutral content being suppressed, as I noted back in May:

Do "like" buttons encourage "addiction-like behaviors"? Do comments encourage bullying? Does allowing any information about weight loss make a platform liable when someone develops an eating disorder? What about allowing pictures of very thin people? Or providing filters that purportedly promote unrealistic beauty standards? How do we account for the fact that what might be triggering to one young person—a personal tale of overcoming suicidal ideation, for instance—might help another young person who is struggling with the same issue?

Courts could get bogged down with answering these complicated, contentious questions. And tech companies could face a lot of time and expense defending themselves against frivolous lawsuits—unless, of course, they decide to reject speech related to any controversial issue. In which case, KOSA might encourage banning content that could actually help young people.


FREE MARKETS

Massachusetts may ban the sale of phone location data, as part of a push joined by folks worried about government officials tracking their movements and "activists worried about the privacy of women seeking abortions," notes Reason's J.D. Tuccille. Under the new Massachusetts proposal, it would "be unlawful for a covered entity or service provider that lawfully collects and processes location information to…sell, rent, trade, or lease location information to third parties."

"The issue, actually, is less who sells the data than who buys it—often police or agencies of the security state," points out Tuccille:

Last month, Reason's Joe Lancaster wrote up a report from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence revealing that government agencies frequently evade Fourth Amendment protections by purchasing commercially available information about the public—including data on people's movements. While, under Carpenter v. United States (2017), law enforcement needs a warrant to get records from communications providers (our phones really are tracking beacons), no such requirement applies to information purchased from third–party vendors.

Various agencies have bought access to our whereabouts for years, giving them the ability to track movements during crimes, civil disturbances, and political protests. Following the protests and riots after the 2020 murder of George Floyd by a police officer, demonstrators were plotted and demographically categorized using data provided by the phones in their pockets. Shortly thereafter, "Google provided investigators with location data for more than 5,000 devices as part of the federal investigation into the attack on the US Capitol," Wired noted.

It's not just the feds. Last summer, the Electronic Frontier Foundation revealed that "dozens of state and local law enforcement agencies" purchase "often warrantless access to the precise and continuous geolocation of hundreds of millions of unsuspecting Americans, collected through their smartphone apps and then aggregated by shadowy data brokers."

The Massachusetts bill—which would explicitly require "any federal, state, or local government agency or official" to get a warrant before location information could be disclosed—could help hamper these practices.

But the Massachusetts measure may go too far in banning all location data sales:

"No state has gone so far as to completely ban the sale of location data on residents," observes The Wall Street Journal. "The most common approach in other states is to require digital services and data brokers to obtain clear consent from consumers to collect data and put some restrictions on transfer and sale." …

Arguably, choice is better than a one-size-fits-all dictate, which might result in higher costs if companies replace lost revenue streams by raising prices. While those of us especially troubled by snooping would be willing to pay more to preserve our privacy, others could prefer to exchange anonymity for lower bills or free phone apps. Different strokes for different folks is generally a good policy, but it's one not permitted by the Massachusetts proposal.


QUICK HITS

• China is "tottering on the brink of deflation," notes Axios. Will the U.S. benefit?

• Against old left-wing ideas rebranded as new right-wing ideas

• "Operation Underground Railroad has spent years making big, often unprovable claims about its paramilitary missions and role in rescuing trafficked kids," notes Vice. "Now, a new hit movie may help solidify the myth."

• A warning about U.S. debt from an unlikely place: The Atlantic. "The country's fiscal situation has changed dramatically, if quietly, in the past few years," writes Annie Lowrey.

• Iowa's House has passed a bill that would ban abortion a few weeks into pregnancy. "Senate File 579 prohibits physicians from providing most abortions after early cardiac activity can be detected in a fetus or embryo, commonly as early as six weeks into pregnancy," reports CNN. The bill—which now heads to the Senate—was passed "quickly in the special session ordered by GOP Gov. Kim Reynolds with the sole purpose of restricting the procedure in the state."

• The New York Times' Jane Coaston talks to Utah Gov. Spencer Cox, a Republican, about the state's new law banning teens from social media unless they get parental consent.

• Facebook is getting the Backpage treatment.

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

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NEXT: Massachusetts Considers Ban on Sale of Phone Location Data

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

Federal Trade CommissionFree MarketsVideo GamesAntitrustMergersMicrosoftBusiness and IndustryFederal CourtsReason Roundup
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  1. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    A judge has rejected the FTC's attempt to block Microsoft's purchase of the Call of Duty company.

    LEEROY JENKINS!!!!!

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      Keep spam here, spammers.

      1. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

        WHERE ARE THEY?

        1. Sometimes a Great Notion   2 years ago

          You just had to push it.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            I blame fist.

            1. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

              Oh my.

    2. Illocust   2 years ago

      I'm super happy about this. Microsoft has done a good job with continuous improvement on minecraft. If they treat board the same, we will get more and more good products from them.

      1. AngliaJames17   2 years ago (edited)

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  2. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    The broad definition of addiction would discourage websites from hosting California youth users, cutting them off entirely from crucial resources, support, and information that teens regularly rely upon.

    That's what state bureaucrats are for.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Don't forget their media "partners" and the hordes of NGO staffers.

    2. Its_Not_Inevitable   2 years ago

      The State will provide.

  3. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    The Massachusetts bill—which would explicitly require "any federal, state, or local government agency or official" to get a warrant before location information could be disclosed...

    Or else what?

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      There might be a sternly worded letter?

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        With dick pics?

        1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

          In my libertopia, all government communications would have to be signed off with a sketch of dickbutt.

  4. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    Is the FBI Helping Ukraine's Secret Service Censor Americans?

    The Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government releases a damning new report, revealing even more speech-smashing misbehavior by the federal government

    "Aaron Maté of The Grayzone published a new piece about a bizarre finding in the Twitter Files. An FBI agent named Alexander Kozbanets had forwarded to Twitter a list sent to the FBI by Ukraine’s Security Service, the SBU. These accounts, Kozbanets said, were “suspected by the SBU of spreading fear and disinformation.” Of the 170-odd account names on the list, most were Russian, but one stood out: Aaron’s! Here he is, along with the popular Russian newspaper “Rush Hour” (Chas-Pik) and a host of Cyrillic names:

    The shame of this story wasn’t that the SBU sent this list over, but rather that the FBI collaborated in the effort, even having the gall to forward the name of a respected, award-winning Canadian journalist to Twitter. To its credit, Twitter Trust and Safety chief Yoel Roth pushed back, noting Aaron’s name and saying, “authentic news outlets and reporters who cover the conflict with a pro-Russian stance are unlikely to be found in violation of our rules.” Nonetheless, the fact that the FBI even tried this lunatic stunt was damning."

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      How long before Matt Taibbi has a fatal "accident"?

      1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

        Matt Taibbi didn't kill himself.

        Just getting it out of the way now.

        1. Cyto   2 years ago

          That is step 3 in the playback.

          First they try to silence you with "cancelling". You are a Russian asset... unemployable.... a kook... a conspiracy theorist....
          But if you persist.... a criminal. Usually something where only the accusation is needed. #MeToo. A rapist. Maybe trafficking. Maybe underage girls.

          They have already fired the opening salvo on this with a visit from the IRS while he was testifying before the house committee. Subtle.

          Suicide comes at the end, if you aren't silenced the other ways.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago (edited)

            They’re already using the first one on Glenn Greenwald and Tucker Carlson as they won’t follow the party line. So, of course, they’re “Russian assets”.

            1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago (edited)

              Leftist middle school level rhetoric on the national stage.

              1. R Mac   2 years ago

                Unfortunately, a percentage near 50 believes it anyway.

                1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                  I'm convinced most people never progressed beyond high school, much less middle school.

          2. Nardz   2 years ago

            https://twitter.com/walterkirn/status/1678939825960013824?t=F7tpxotZUB4zyxp8dL9SqQ&s=19

            For some reason it seems that free thought and free speech present even greater risks to the control powers than they used to. I wonder why. What changed?

            [Unfortunately, I think the opposite is the case.
            They have more power now than any institutions have had before.
            What people say & think is no threat, which is why they make such a show of combating it.
            There is no longer any concern that action will be taken.
            Only kinetic force matters.]

  5. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    In Newly-Released Docs, Scientists Seemingly Admit COVID Origins Paper Was Meant To Cover For China, Play Politics

    "Scientists acknowledged the fallout that would occur if “anyone serious” called out the possibility that COVID-19 originated due to a Chinese leak rather than naturally, according to private messages included in a report released on Tuesday.

    Scientists discussed the potential consequences of accusing China of leaking COVID-19 and agreed to attribute the virus to a natural source in a private Slack channel in February 2020, according to a report by the House of Representatives Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic. Evolutionary biologist Dr. Andrew Rambaut wrote that it would be a disaster to blame China for an escaped virus and stated that he would be comfortable saying it was a natural occurrence, and immunologist Dr. Kristian Andersen said that he concurred.

    “Given the shit show that would happen if anyone serious accused the Chinese of even accidental release, my feeling is we should say that given there is no evidence of a specifically engineered virus, we cannot possibly distinguish between natural evolution and escape so we are content with ascribing it to natural processes,” Rambaut wrote.

    “Yup, I totally agree that that’s a very reasonable conclusion,” Andersen responded. “Although I hate when politics is injected into science – but it’s impossible not to, especially given the circumstances.” (RELATED: Fauci-Tied Scientist Accuses Republicans Of ‘Quote-Mining’ His Private Emails)

    The report also claims that former National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases Director Anthony Fauci initiated an effort to suppress the theory that the origins of COVID-19 could be traced to a laboratory in Wuhan, China. Fauci reportedly pushed researchers to write a paper to “disprove” the lab leak theory on multiple occasions.

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      It just came out HHS never officially reappointed Fauci so he has been acting illegally for the last 18 months.

      1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   2 years ago

        If true, then he was just acting as a private citizen advising Trump. Maybe this is their route to immunizing Fauci from prosecution.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Was after Biden sworn in. There is something like 25B in grants that are not legally authorized.

          1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   2 years ago

            Oops, wrong prez, but it still makes me wonder if this is how the Dems are going to let him off the hook.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              I had the same question. But looks like it was plain incompetence as they quietly reappointed them last month.

    2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Fauci belongs behind bars.

      1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   2 years ago

        Ugh. Would you drink any cocktail he mixed, or even any shots straight from the bottle?

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          What about from AOC?

          1. Eeyore   2 years ago

            I am curious to see if she can get a Manhattan right. Sure.

            1. Dillinger   2 years ago

              su'poib!

            2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

              Bitch needs to run home and get her shine box.

              1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

                What, a shoe shine box?

                1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

                  It’s from ‘Goodfellas’.

              2. Its_Not_Inevitable   2 years ago

                Momma's got a squeeze box and daddy doesn't sleep at night.

                1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

                  In and out and in and out.

  6. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    The GOP is always "about to take action" AFTER THE NEXT hearing or meeting or scandal.
    That's the game: raise money on false promises.
    The GOP is a fundraising scheme pretending to be a political party.

    The GOP used the midterms to campaign on putting an end to widespread ballot harvesting, fully unedited public release of J6 footage, auditing the billions sent to Ukraine, along with subpoenas for Hunter Biden, Dr. Fauci, and Pfizer executives.

    None of this has happened.

    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      Now you are starting to get it.

      Team Red uses fear to scare people into voting for them. They promise to fix things but don't, because their real object isn't to fix things, but to achieve power.

      And Team Blue does the *exact same thing*.

      And yet you continue to shill for Team Red day after day after day.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Because Team Red is the only viable alternative to the most evil party in the West since 1945.
        It's like rooting for Boss Hogg because his opponent is Cuthulu.

        I've told you many times that I abhor everything you stand for Jeff, as imperfect as your enemies are they're all we've got.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          Because Team Red is the only viable alternative to the most evil party in the West since 1945.

          And you are living proof that Team Red's fearmongering works.

          1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

            Hey Fatfuck, no one needs to be ‘fearmongered’. Directly listening to the democrats in their own words is horrifying enough.

            Your comment living proof that you’re a leftist shill lying about being a libertarian.

          2. R Mac   2 years ago

            Freedom of speech attacked? Check
            Freedom of movement attacked? Check
            Freedom of privacy and due process attacked? Check.
            Freedom to defend yourself attacked? Check.

            You’re a joke, Pedo Jeffy.

          3. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

            Stop doing psychotic, evil shit hundreds of times a day and there'd be nothing to fear monger about.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        The self-declared "anti-rightist" tries to front that he doesn't like tribalism.

        1. R Mac   2 years ago

          I don’t call him Lying Jeffy for nothing.

      3. R Mac   2 years ago

        No, Team Blue (your team) actually follows through on their shitty ideas. Team Red says they’ll fight back but rarely does.

        1. Uilleam   2 years ago

          Evil Party vs. Stupid Party

    2. Nardz   2 years ago

      And this is why the DeSantis campaign has been so disappointing.
      Through it he's revealed he's just another establishment puppet, thus not a real alternative to the dems.

      1. R Mac   2 years ago

        Vivek has definitely moved two my second preference. I’d like it if some journalist would do some research into his claims about how he could get rid of a lot of the bureaucrats in DC.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          I've had vivek at the top. His initial plan is great, revising OMB and OPM. Two of the biggest issues in the federal government.

          1. R Mac   2 years ago

            Yes, this is what I’m referring to. It would be nice if someone with more legal knowledge than myself could weigh in on his legal theory for how he would accomplish it.

            Or maybe someone has and I haven’t seen it yet.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

              The majority of it simply requires oversight of both of those institutions. OMB has been ignoring the law for the most part. They now write shall instead of authorized up to in spending and appropriations bills in the executive budget. Just a small change would allow the executive to not spend every dollar allocated.

              OPM just freeze all salary adjustments for the full term.

        2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          I'll agree. I'm leaning toward Vivek right now as well. He seems to have a more libertarian outlook than most of them, and if he can even follow through on half of what he's talking about now, it'd be wonderful. These federal agencies need to be abolished.

          1. rbike   2 years ago

            Kind of Trump, but with self control. He has my support. May try to talk to him next time he's in town. Iowa, you know. Politicians running all over the state causing traffic tieups. I oft ride the bike around em.

  7. JesseAz   2 years ago

    Resurfaced 2022 IRS memo shows charging Hunter for 2014 and 2015 tax felonies signed off by Weiss and Shapely. The charges were never filed and allowed to lapse from statute of limitations. This raises new questions to Garland and Weiss testimony stating Weiss had full authority. Memo is the precursor to charging. Yet was never activated.

    https://justthenews.com/accountability/political-ethics/hunter-biden-mystery-why-did-delaware-prosecutor-not-bring-case

  8. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    Against old left-wing ideas rebranded as new right-wing ideas...

    What, did you want ideological consistency? In this economy?

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      It worked with convincing democrats of the KKK party switch.

    2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Facts change!

    3. Sometimes a Great Notion   2 years ago

      I was against it before I was for it?

  9. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    European Commissioner Thierry Breton announces that from August 25, social networks will be obliged to immediately delete "hateful content" or "which call for revolt" under penalty of being cut off on the territory

    Remember how they were champions of that kind of language when it was happening to Egypt/The Arab Spring? But now that their own are revolting against them, they don't like it so much.

    They have absolutely no idea what they're doing. This will cause folks to go underground, use decentralize platforms that cannot be censored. It will make the problem worst, because on these open-source platforms their is no algorithms to stop the spread of hateful posts!

    I remember when the sole purpose of the EU was to enable a standard currency to facilitate trade.
    Warnings about the slippery slope to tyranny were considered conspiracies.

    Now, unelected officials grant themselves authority to shut down communications.

  10. JesseAz   2 years ago

    Headline is concise and accurate.

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/07/joe-biden-is-an-asshole/

    1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

      Yes, but no more mean tweets!

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      I’ve rarely seen a more accurate and concise headline.

      1. Eeyore   2 years ago

        Prolapsed asshole is less concise, but potentially more accurate.

  11. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    "Operation Underground Railroad has spent years making big, often unprovable claims about its paramilitary missions and role in rescuing trafficked kids," notes Vice.

    Uh-oh.

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      The left and its representative media seems really insistent on claiming child trafficking doesn't exist. And ENB is on the front line.

      1. Uilleam   2 years ago

        It's absolutely insane to watch.

    2. Illocust   2 years ago

      Reason needs to tread carefully. Kids aren't the same as adults, they can't consent to being prostitutes. You find a child prostitute you find a victim. The younger the victim the more they've been victimized.

      1. Cyto   2 years ago

        I saw an interview with the guy who runs the organization and who the movie is about.

        He says they video their operations for this exact reason. He talks about being approached by Skeptics who want to discredit him and bringing them along on operations to see for themselves.

        He talked about gaining big supporters that way.... but also about one reporter that he seems convinced was sent specifically to discredit him... I forget the details, but he made the case that the reporting was dishonest and was instantly repeated as fact across the media. I think he made some claim about having video proof to back up the claims that the reporting was false, and years of follow-up care for the victims.

        I didn't get all the details, but it is *extremely* odd that the press is so unanimous in attacking this story. Since when is child trafficking not a huge story that is covered uncritically?

        Well, other than epstein's guest list.

        1. Illocust   2 years ago

          Oh I get why. The left is currently focusing on covering sex related topics in schools without parental consent, oversight, or informedness.

          Child sex trafficking getting big in the news right now, would make parents think about their own children and how they'd feel if something like that happened to their kids. The second order effect of this would be parents feeling protective of their children and a much harsher rejection of the current left's goals.

          A.k.a. most don't want to make children more vulnerable to grooming, but they recognize that if parents are feeling protective, they will push back against their policies. So they are reflexively against things that make parents feel protective, which results in stupid actions like coming out against a group dedicated to saving children from being raped.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

            Oh I get why. The left is currently focusing on covering sex related topics in schools without parental consent, oversight, or informedness.

            Yeah, back in the late 80s when we were doing our sex ed materials, the school was still proactive about reaching out to the parents and going, "This is what we're planning to discuss," and giving parents the option of taking their kids out of those sections if they weren't comfortable with the school teaching that rather than them.

            Now, almost all the parents didn't do this, and the ones who did were typically the really hardcore Mormon famiiles who were already looked at as rather odd. But at least the school respected the parents enough to be transparent about things. That's not the case anymore because the schools are run by rad-left ideologues.

            1. Cyto   2 years ago

              In today's world, my hard left democrat school board has a 5th grade sex Ed program that runs 3 days. Days 1 and 2 are about mechanics. Day 3 is roughly half about the gay. Last time through for us, there was no trans stuff though.

              We chose to pre-arm our kids by doing our own sex Ed training before class... including our own disclosures about what same sex attraction is about. This removed the mystery and gave them information to counter anything some K-12 education major screwed up reading from the pamphlets. It went fine.

          2. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

            Or they're just pedophiles or their allies and enablers. Given their years of covering for Hollywood and various leftwing politicians it's just easier to cut out any benefit of the doubt.

            1. R Mac   2 years ago

              Yeah, I’m done giving these people the benefit of the doubt. A Capital Police and Marine (on the fucking base!) getting caught within about a week should make anyone that’s not down with this take note.

    3. Kungpowderfinger   2 years ago

      Stand by for ENB’s review of Sound of Freedom

      1. Illocust   2 years ago

        I've actually been waiting for the weekly movie review to cover it at reason. Seems right up the alley of the type of movies they review.

        1. Kungpowderfinger   2 years ago

          Critical Drinker has a quick, good one.

          1. Illocust   2 years ago

            Yeah, I actually watched it. Made me want to go see it before it gets out of theaters. Need to take the bf.

    4. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

      The online media has noticed their pejorative framing of the movie as "Q-Anon adjacent" isn't gaining traction, and people are mocking them for complaining about a movie showing that sex trafficking of kids is bad, so now they're trying to slag the group itself as "not being everything that it seems!"

      So just to provide some actual clarity, this is the actual situation--the movie was filmed 5 years ago under 20th Century Fox, and acquired by Disney as part of their deal to take over Fox media properties. Disney initially sat on the film before Chapek decided to sell it off to to Angel Studios (a Mormon-owned company that grew out of VidAngel, the same company that provided movies with the naughty parts blocked). Angel went ahead and released the movie this summer, which has gotten almost all of its audience from word of mouth despite the limited release.

      I hadn't even heard of the damn thing until it started popping up in the YouTuber reviewer channels I listen to, after it beat Indiana Jones that one day during the 4th of July weekend.

      1. Illocust   2 years ago (edited)

        Honestly trying to tie this movie to the Q-Anon boogie man is going to backfire.

        Everyone who watches the movie before or after dying the movie will start associating ‘Q-Anon’ accusations as accusations of being anti-child trafficking instead of being related to any kind of conspiracy. It will sap the accusation of any strength, and paint the ones making it as completely uncaring about child victims and really unaware of optics.

        It’s not a good strategy, and worse it’s a strategy that really hard to back pedal on once you’ve deployed it.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          It's bullshit and propaganda all the way down.

      2. Cyto   2 years ago

        Setting that up was actually brilliant marketing.

        Instead of a Thursday release heading into the holiday weekend, they released it on the 4th itself... a Tuesday. With a ton of pre-sales through the faith-based community, they were able to overcome a relatively low number of screens to top the box office for the one day.

        They were then able to plug into a whole bunch of pre-existing narratives.... hate for the emasculation of existing heroes from old IP, go woke go-broke narratives, anti-christian bias...

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

          I'd read about that--apparently there was a similar strategy done with Passion of the Christ, although that one had a much broader theater release.

          From what I understand (because I haven't seen the movie), the interesting thing about it is that there isn't actually that much "Jesus stuff" in it, other than a couple of off-hand mentions about the main character's faith and how that motivates him. But it's not heavy-handed, supposedly, and is more incidental to the actual plot itself.

          The main thing that's really bothering these critics is that it's being promoted by evangelical Christian churches, and that it's effectively competing with the Disney crap because the company has alienated about 25% of its former audience into outright brand rejection of anything associated with Disney. Promoting it as "the movie about child trafficking that Disney wanted to bury because it hit too close to home" was absolutely brilliant marketing in that respect.

          1. Cyto   2 years ago

            Yeah, the machine was probably going to hate The Passion Of the Christ regardless of the religion angle.

            Hollywood turned Gibson down cold when he pitched it, so he made it himself. When it made over $300 million (for his pockets instead of theirs), they had to be pissed.

            They fought to keep it out of theaters, they fought to keep people from talking a out it..... but accessing church networks directly for marketing completely neutered their attempts to shut them down.

  12. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    Warren Buffet explains how he can end the US deficit within 5 minutes

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Does it involve magic trillion dollar coins?

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      1. Every other year raise the social security age 1 year until it is 4 years over the average life expectancy
      2. Get rid of all federal welfare
      3. Stop all cost plus contracts
      4 get rid of every agency not listed on the constitution and bar all fired employees from ever getting a gov job.
      National debt fixed

      1. Cyto   2 years ago (edited)

        By pushing social security out to 83, you end up with a very large group of over-70 blue color workers who cannot work and don’t have a safety net.

        1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

          Leave the initial benefits age at 62 but discount this based on the rising age for full benefits.

          And adjust the full benefit age each year for intra-SS solvency, based on the working vs retired populations, SS tax rate, and projected benefit payout.

        2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

          It's not my fault social security is, and always was a scam.

          1. Cyto   2 years ago

            We discussed that extensively all the way back into the 90s.

            For those interested in what could have been, look for the story of the city of Galviston pension program.

            They opted out of social security and instead invested the money.

            Retirees on this version of social security make more in retirement than they did when employed.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        I’m still convinced that fully organ harvesting a large portion of democrats would solve most of our problems.

        It’s worth a try.

    3. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

      There's no "fixing the deficit" until the dollar dies as the world's reserve currency and the country gets knocked on its ass as a result.

      The reality is that we've only averaged about 17.5% of GDP in revenues since the the end of World War II in a very narrow range, and have only gotten above 19% six times. Meanwhile, spending has gone from about 18% of GDP 50 years ago to well over 20 percent for years now. The vast majority of the deficit is in defense spending and health care, and while eliminating redundancies and over-administrated functions like Homeland Security and Education would be helpful, ultimately the US has to quit shoveling money down the hardware furnace, pull back its overseas stations, and cut WAY back on Medicare and Medicaid spending. And the latter in particular is going to require a cultural shift away from junk food and processed crap, because heart disease and diabetes not only constitute well over 3/4 of a million deaths per year, they also heavily contribute to the increased cost of healthcare because fatties require all kinds of medical treatments just to keep them upright and shoveling more food into their disgusting, fat faces.

      1. R Mac   2 years ago

        “There’s no “fixing the deficit” until the dollar dies as the world’s reserve currency and the country gets knocked on its ass as a result.”

        Agreed. Which is why as painful as that will be short term, it needs to happen, and appears will happen sooner than later.

      2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   2 years ago

        Trump had the right idea when he was pushing other NATO countries to pay as agreed for their own defense. As opposed to the US taxpayer covering their shortfall so they can blow their load on socialist bullshit.

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

          Sure, but that would have only made a difference on the margins. Telling Europe, "We'll keep a skeleton crew here for appearances' sake, but you need to take care of your own business, and we won't come over unless shit really hits the fan" would have a much greater impact.

        2. JFree   2 years ago

          Trump had no ideas. He is a blowhard. Said the same things I've heard for decades from drunks on a barstool. And he managed to be just as offensive as a barstool drunk. Making him just as effective. But you morons really ate that shit up didn't you.

          1. R Mac   2 years ago

            So all those time I saw Trump say exactly what Elmer just claimed, I was hallucinating?

            God damn your TDS is amazing.

            1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              JFree practices a rhetorical art popularly called lying.

            2. JFree   2 years ago

              Obama called them free riders. There is nothing new here.

              Nor do you even give a shit about the LONG history of NACC or PfP (both had Russia as members) or all the other institutions that NATO established to try to figure out European security post Cold War. And the different post Cold War goals for NATO then even in the West between the Europeans and US.

              Which is why you fall for blowhards like Trump re this. And why you are merely a useful idiot for Putin's propaganda re NATO.

              1. Diarrheality   2 years ago

                When are you headed to Ukraine?

      3. JFree   2 years ago

        There’s no “fixing the deficit” until the dollar dies as the world’s reserve currency and the country gets knocked on its ass as a result.

        For the next few years, there is no excess external demand for the dollar as reserve currency. So no particular effect on the consequence re lower interest rates.

        cut WAY back on Medicare and Medicaid spending.

        DeRps are never going to do this. The Libertarian idea is stuck on stupid since there is no market solution for the old, the poor, and the disabled - which is precisely who is covered by govt now.

        But at some point someone who really wants to deal with reality will realize that:
        1. we spend as much via government covering 30% of the population as almost everyone else in rich countries spends via government covering 100% of their population (though not necessarily 100% of the spending of that 100%).
        2. The solution to spending is in the states. Medicare spending per recipient ranges from $13,700 in Florida to $8800 in Vermont. Medicaid spending per recipient ranges from $12,300 in North Dakota to $4800 in Georgia.

    4. n00bdragon   2 years ago

      The other way to end the deficit in five minutes:

      1. Take the total amount the government spent last year and divide by the number of citizens.
      2. Send everyone a bill for the amount calculated in step 1.
      3. Continue as usual while everyone ignores the problem until April 15th (Denial)
      4. Take a vacation when the riots break out and congress critters are hiding in bunkers for their lives (Anger)
      5. Reject all attempts to undo the above (Bargaining)
      6. Be charitable and give (individual and personal) aid to people who truly cannot pay the tax through no fault of their own (Depression)
      7. Enjoy a working democracy where the government must make active (and difficult!) choices about how much money to collect and what it can be spent on (Acceptance).

      1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

        But what will actually happen is:

        Print eleventy trillion dollars and fuck you that's why

        1. Leo Kovalensky II   2 years ago

          This is the same as a tax increase, but with the added bonus that Congress-critters can shift the blame to evil capitalists when the price of everything necessarily surges.

          In other words, you can bet your further value-less dollars that this is what will happen.

  13. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    No, I do not expect black people at a table full of Hollywood progressives.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Skin color is the most important thing

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Marxism is the most important thing. Skin color is just a tactic.

        1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   2 years ago

          Control is the most important thing. Marxism is just the label on the tool.

        2. Nardz   2 years ago

          It doesn't matter now, because skin color IS the most important thing to a great many people.

          1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

            ...a great many useful idiots.

            FIFY

  14. JesseAz   2 years ago

    Hunter Biden and Joe's brother had for more interactions between government and CEFC, especially Ho, than Luft but have not been charged with FARA like Luft

    https://nypost.com/2023/07/10/missing-biden-corruption-witness-dr-gal-luft-hit-with-federal-charges/

  15. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    Inside the press rooms that lecture us about the virtues of diversity:

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      All chicks.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        This proves they do the same work for lower pay, right?

        1. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

          Chicks attempt suicide at a rate of 5x of men, men are more likely to die from suicide.
          Men make more because we know how to get the job done!

          1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

            Ah, but as The Josey Wales observed: "Dyin' ain't much of a livin', boy."
            https://youtu.be/zLRlY46ttfE

            1. Its_Not_Inevitable   2 years ago

              Great movie. But in that scene, one would've thunk the bounty hunter might've come back in just a bit more prepared to draw.

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      Ibrim ten kendi flat out said 100% black is 100% diverse.

      1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

        you mean Henry Rogers of Indiana?

        1. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

          Is that the dude That sang the gambler?

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

            Nah. That was Kenny Rogers.

            1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

              What about fried chicken?

  16. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    A warning about U.S. debt from an unlikely place: The Atlantic.

    Something is afoot.

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Russian hackers?

  17. JesseAz   2 years ago

    Which states are growing faster, blue or red... mystery.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/gop-states-incomes-economic-growth-bureau-of-economic-analysis-465ce23?mod=opinion_lead_pos1

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      It sure as fuck isn’t dark blue Illinois, much less California.

  18. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    The far right’s obsession with fitness is going digital

    Next, The far rights obsession with shelter and food

    1. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

      Next, The far rights obsession with not being killed

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Will they be happy with the new WEF subsistence regimen: the grow your own food and build your own hut workout?

    3. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      What about the far rights obsession with oxygen, and water... And HO2?

    4. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

      What about the far right's obsession with clothing?

    5. Super Scary   2 years ago

      "obsession with shelter and food"

      You mean like doomsday preppers? Those type of people are typically right wing too.

    6. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

      Fitness? Shelter? Food? Not getting killed? Oxygen? Water? Clothing?

      I see them all as baby steps along the way to being Transhuman Immortalist Extropian and being the very model of a Singularitarian. 🙂

      I am the very model of a Singularitarian
      https://youtu.be/6hKG5l_TDU8

      I'll lay better odds on all this for eternal life than the "Man is a virus on the Planet" Left and the "Worship a dead man on two sticks" Right.

  19. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    I just found out that the media wants us to forget about the Georgia Grand Jury lady who practiced witchcraft on Etsy that was going to “put Trump behind bars”

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      They have a new grand jury. A new cast of far left loons hand picked.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        The fallacy of democracy: even retards can vote.

    2. Nardz   2 years ago

      Any action on the census "errors" which stole 5 or so reps/electoral votes from red states and gave them to blue states?

    3. Stuck in California   2 years ago

      You could use her mannerisms and body language in a tutorial for young men titled "Crazy chicks not to get involved with: How to spot them at a glance"

  20. Fist of Etiquette   2 years ago

    ...in the special session ordered by GOP Gov. Kim Reynolds with the sole purpose of restricting the procedure in the state.

    State legislatures need to get on the omnibus.

  21. Longtobefree   2 years ago

    "The gist of the FTC's complaint is Call of Duty is so popular, and such an important supply for any video game platform, that the combined firm is probably going to foreclose it from its rivals for its own economic benefit to consumers' detriment,"

    One game to rule them all?

    1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      there should not even be an FTC

  22. Sometimes a Great Notion   2 years ago

    "The country's fiscal situation has changed dramatically, if quietly,

    If a bear shits in the woods and no one hears it; its still a steaming pile.

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Think you mean in a trunk, not in the woods.

      1. Sometimes a Great Notion   2 years ago

        I agree our debt is bad, but bear in trunk levels bad? I'll need to consult our resident Ursus expert.

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Jeffy was unavailable for comment as he was busy telling that bear in the trunk that he was really female instead of male.

          1. R Mac   2 years ago

            He wants to fuck bear cubs too?

    2. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      The country’s fiscal situation has changed dramatically, if quietly,

      Bad to worse?

    3. sarcasmic   2 years ago

      If a man is speaking and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong?

      1. R Mac   2 years ago

        Hey, sarc made a funny! Good job sarc.

  23. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

    "Against old left-wing ideas rebranded as new right-wing ideas"

    No. What's actually happening is that old lefties and liberals who haven't adopted the sex cult/neo-fascism of the establishment are being called "Extreme-Right-Wing!!"

    Lefties whose opinions never changed but are now right wing terrors are:
    Elon Musk
    Tim Robbins
    Bill Maher
    Matt Taibbi
    Russell Brand
    Michael Shellenberger
    Bret Weinstein
    etc.

    1. Illocust   2 years ago

      I have several left leaning friends who are in the process of accepting that the Democrat party has left them behind and they are now right wing. It's interesting to watch, because now that they are one of the 'bad guys' they are getting exposed to new ideas and facts they would have never heard of if the democrats weren't run by idiots.

      If they aren't careful team blue is going to destroy its extremely valuable echo chamber in the main stream by excommunicating too many people.

      1. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

        The fact that the Republicans are drifting left, thanks to their newly found disdain for economic liberty, makes it easier for left-leaning people to find a home in the GOP.
        Unfortunately this Republican drift has also had the effect of shrinking the Venn Diagram overlap between Republicans and libertarians.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          Way to completely misunderstand his comment. Took a lot of effort to turn this into an attack on the right instead of a criticism of the left.

          1. Illocust   2 years ago

            I recommend the mute button for the above. Won't stop the stalking of comments, but will make your debates on this board much more entertaining and educational.

            1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

              JesseAz has debates? Really? I thought all he did was accuse people of things they never said nor did, then call them liars when they attempt to defend themselves from his lies.

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                Cite?

            2. JesseAz   2 years ago

              I had him on mute for the last 2 weeks. But it seems to have driven him into a worse spiral. Just after taking him off he showed to be even worse than usual.

              1. Illocust   2 years ago

                That's a sign he's desperate for attention and muting him is working. The more insane he gets, the less need there is to engage because even bystanders can see the guy is raving. Let him implode on his own.

                1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                  I would appreciate it if you convinced JesseAz to put me on mute. Then the screen wouldn't be cluttered with his constant dingleberries stuck to all my posts in a desperate attempt to get attention like the master baiter that he is.
                  Please, continue. A screen free of his droppings would be a welcome sight.

                  1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

                    Ideas?

                    sarcasmic 3 weeks ago Flag Comment Mute User And stop calling you out on your retardation? Not a chance.

                    In response to:

                    Spiritus Mundi 3 weeks ago
                    Flag Comment Mute User
                    Can you put me on your mute list?

                    Appropriate.

                2. Nazi-Chipping Warlock   2 years ago

                  ++

        2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

          As I've pointed out several times, this isn't anything other than a normal political realignment. There's nothing that's actually "far-right" about the GOP these days, other than the abortion and TQ+++ issues issue. Even then they are counter-balanced by the current far-left establishment in blue states that fully legalized it up until the moment the infant's feet exit the Magic Birth Canal for any reason, and passed laws allowing munchie parents to kidnap their kids from red states for genital-removal surgeries and schools to hide gender "transitioning" from parents.

          The left has slagged ordinary civic nationalism in particular as "fascism" for well over 50 years now, ever since the New Left started taking control of the party.

          1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

            What are supporters of economic freedom supposed to do when both major parties are hostile to the concept?

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              That's easy. Create moral panic about drag queens.

            2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

              What "economic freedom," specifically? Any "freedom of association" inevitably means that the Civil Rights Acts have to be repealed, and lawfare by people such as the troon that's practicing vexatious litigation against the Masterpiece Bakery owner has to be severely punished.

              None of these programs are going away short of a total national collapse. It was inevitable that the GOP would become less like its neocon version after TARP passed, and focus more on social issues rather than fiscal ones, especially after its voters realized that fiscal conservatives tend to make fickle allies on the cultural front.

              1. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                What “economic freedom,” specifically?

                Trade wars. Protectionism. Mercantilism. Industrial policy. “Buy Murkin.”

                You know, the policies Trump supporters defended, but are somehow silent on even as the very same policies are continued and expanded.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                  You mean the same policies that funded the government, on a limited basis, up until the income tax was codified into the Constitution?

                  1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                    Yeah, that. I've said before that I would support consumption taxes, that includes tariffs, if they were to replace taxes on productive activity. But they'd have to be uniform and predictable.

                    Targeted tariffs intended to change consumer behavior are a different matter entirely.

                    1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

                      So why are you still confused on the difference between targeted tariffs and retaliatory tariffs against countries not acting in a free market? I’ve given you links and references on the latter and how they actually benefit free trade. The very tariffs you criticize above.

                      And your attack is always someone supports a tariff, yet here you are supporting them.

                      Learn the difference between types of tariffs and maybe you could finally have a positive discussion around them.

                      What you actually argue for is cheaper shit from anti market entities like China whose free market abuses you just ignore.

                    2. R Mac   2 years ago

                      “And your attack is always someone supports a tariff, yet here you are supporting them.”

                      Yeah, that just gave me a chuckle.

          2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

            Liberal policy about children, pre and post-birth: "I'm not gonna support it!"

        3. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago (edited)

          The fact that the Republicans are drifting left, thanks to their newly found disdain for economic liberty,

          The disdain on the right is not for economic liberty, but for corporatism. Reasonable people can disagree when economic liberty lurches into corporatism, but we’ve seen so much shit over the last five years that went from “It’s not happening” to “it’s happening, but it’s not as bad as you say” all the way to Robby Soave on The Hill now doing a pretty excellent job of detailing exactly how it was not only as bad as we said, but worse.

          That’s what “republicans” are against.

          edit: There's a long, 50,000 comment thread that can be made about how various people on the left and the right have found each other in the fog over the shared understanding that institutions like the FDA are completely captured by corporate interests, all the way to the point of literally not caring if they kill you as long as they sell a few more doses of an experimental vaccine that they're immune from lawsuit over. Hell, it's not even QUALIFIED immunity that the drug companies got. I'd settle for 'qualified' immunity at this point.

          1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

            I’ll ask again. Why is nothing happening with HR 140 in the Senate? Why have the Republicans seemingly abandoned their bill to make it illegal for Federal employees to interfere in social media moderation?

            1. R Mac   2 years ago

              Are you referring to the bill passed by the Republican controlled house being ignored by the Democrat controlled Senate?

              And you’re blaming Republicans? Not a lefty, folks.

            2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              *Bill is being actively blocked by senate Dems*

              Meanwhile, White Mike: "Why have the Republicans seemingly abandoned their bill to make it illegal for Federal employees to interfere in social media moderation?"

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        If they aren’t careful team blue is going to destroy its extremely valuable echo chamber in the main stream by excommunicating too many people.

        No, what's going to happen is that the geography of the country will be increasingly polarized. Blue areas are going to get a LOT bluer, and the same with red areas. You're not wrong that rad-leftism inevitably resorts to purges of the ideologically impure, but all that means is that the people living in blue states and especially the deep blue urban areas and suburbs are going to go fully embrace the religious nature of their Current Year political beliefs. That's mainly because their side controls not just the cultural institutions, but has insinuated itself into corporate boardrooms and global finance.

        Yes, these things inevitably fall apart because communism doesn't know how to sustain itself or actually build anything they didn't steal first, but the rad-left has reached a stage of their existence where they don't really have to worry anymore about alienating so many people that they get rebuked at both the ballot box and in the cultural arena like what happened from the mid-70s-late 80s. And a lot of that was primarily due to the establishment right completely abandoning the west's cultural institutions to these people and in almost exclusive favor of fiscal issues--mainly because they stupidly assumed that socially conservative immigrant populations just needed to be convinced about how wonderful income tax cuts were to grow the "big tent."

        They didn't realize that they'd gain a lot more traction by emphasizing social conservatism with social welfare programs, because these groups all tended to be very insular and community oriented, and thus were more concerned about how government spending programs could specifically help those communities. Most social leftism like the TQ+++ crap is being driven by Marcuse's alliance of the white bourgeiosie the "ghetto populations," and POC grifters, not the middle or working-class demographics.

        1. Illocust   2 years ago

          I'm a bit more positive. There have been a lot of high profile losses from going so far left, and there are a lot medium sized intuitions that have built themselves up in the last few years in opposition to wokism. I think there is a real possibility the penalty is about to swing, because people are seriously voting with their pocketbooks and the ballot box.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

            That's more due to the fact that Roberts can't be a swing vote on these issues right now. I guarantee if Garland was on the court rather than Gorsuch, that record would look very different right now.

            1. Ersatz   2 years ago

              ^THIS!^

            2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

              Bingo, and as much as I hate to say it, it's one of the (if not the best thing) best things McConnell ever did. Maybe the only worthwhile thing McConnell's ever done.

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      Barri weise
      Glen greenwald
      James lindsey

  24. sarcasmic   2 years ago

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12289149/Boy-10-hospitalized-WATER-INTOXICATION-chugging-six-bottles-hour.html

    Boy, 10, almost killed himself after drinking six bottles of WATER in an hour while playing with pals, leaving him unable to move as his brain swelled

    Who is going to save us from the scourge otherwise known as Dihydrogen Monoxide? Where are the regulators when you need them?

    1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      What is really sad is that 100% of people are addicted to that insidious substance.

      1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

        Some even cover their entire bodies with it, every day. Not the French though.

      2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        Not Sarckles, he hasn't tasted a drop in years.

    2. creech   2 years ago

      This is a crisis that demands more action (i.e. billions of taxpayer dollars).
      There were about 4,000 deaths last year in water contaminated with Dihydrogen Monoxide. It is so dangerous that many municipalities require what are known as "lifeguards" to patrol suspected contaminated sites. Children and minorities appear to be adversely impacted, so let's unite against Dihydrogen Monoxide while there is still time to save humanity.

      1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

        It's so bad it contaminates itself! 🙂

  25. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

    Fascinating that the motivation for Massachusetts banning location information is to protect the Leftist faith's sacrament of abortion.

    1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

      Right thing for the wrong reason? I'll still take it.

  26. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

    Massachusetts may ban the sale of phone location data, as part of a push joined by folks worried about government officials tracking their movements and "activists worried about the privacy of women seeking abortions,

    Looks like two wrongs make a right afterall.

  27. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

    So the chink owned Microsoft can buy the chink owned blizzard? Why did the chink owned feds pretend to care?

  28. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

    Fuck you ENB. The law should be you own your data. If your upset that banning the sale of someone else's property of feds you, then slit your libratiene wrists.
    Previously when reason would report on bills like these they would point out language in the law where the law would literally do the opposite of what it claims ie "flags for orphans..." turns out to be "flags for orphans to burn"
    Now I know, ENB is an illiterate cunt (she keeps saying flordia don't say gay bill despite the bill being 3 pages and never mentioning gay) who has to rely on wired saying this goes too far, but remember wired also said the internet would die if net neutrality was gotten rid of. So perhaps ENB should sheck her sources, haha I kid that would require work.

  29. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

    China is "tottering on the brink of deflation," notes Axios.

    The source that has literally never been correct?

  30. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    Tommy Tuberville, douchebag Senator from Alabamastan and Aryan Supremacist, holds up military appointments because he is an asshole who doesn't want to pay enlisted for medical travel.

    Tommy Tuberville reverses his claim that white nationalists are unfairly labeled racist

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tommy-tuberville-triples-claim-white-nationalists-unfairly-labeled/story?id=101095697

    1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      Are black nationalists also racist then?

      1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

        Yes.

        If you're talking about that shit-bag Louis Farraken then hell yes.

        1. Sevo   2 years ago

          turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
          turd lies. turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

        2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

          Then I would suggest from the transcript of Tuberville's interaction with the reporter that he did not understand what the reporter meant by "white nationalist" and this is a badly motivated "gotcha".

          1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

            Yes we know. Democrats = evil and bad intentions. Republicans = well-intentioned and just misunderstood

            stop shilling for Team Red, especially when they make explicitly racist statements like that

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

              Maybe when your side stops indulging POC ethno-nationalists first.

              I actually don't have a problem with hoteps like Tariq Nasheed or your buddies at The Root openly advocating for black nationalism, or Hispanics like George Lopez who openly complain about how much they dislike white people without suffering any consequences, or "fellow white people" grifters like Tim Wise and Robin DiAngelo who demand that white people should hate themselves for being white.

              What I don't like is the double standard that white people can't do the same.

            2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              No, Democrats = diabolically evil and bad intentions. Republicans = stupid and greedy.

              You need to pretend we think the Republican's are saint's to justify your worship of the Democrats.

              1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                Democrats = diabolically evil and bad intentions.

                you only believe this because your right-wing media demagogues tell you this. It is proof that their fearmongering works.

                you're the mirror image of the people who went around for four years calling Trump a fascist racist Nazi.

                1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago (edited)

                  “you only believe this because your right-wing media demagogues tell you this.”

                  I only believe this because you insane sociopaths are constantly rubbing it in everyone’s faces. If you want to successfully gaslight us Jeffy, maybe keep your tribe’s insanity on the down low.

                  “mirror image of the people who went around for four years calling Trump a fascist racist Nazi.”

                  I'll never be your mirror image (too thin) Jeffy, and put down the corporatism, CRT and censorship if you don’t like being called a fascist racist Nazi.

                  1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                    If you seriously think that Democrats are on par with literal Nazis, then you are insane, and proof that you totally buy into the fear machine that Team Red has on full blast.

                    They are not great but they are not Nazis.
                    Same with Team Red: they are not great but they are not Nazis either.

                    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

                      Here's an experiment Jeffy. List one atrocity that the Nazis committed that the Democrats didn't.

                      We can talk about the Trail of Tears, the Tuskegee Experiments, Jim Crow and CRT, the Japanese Internment camps, Late term abortions, Agent Orange, Tulsa race massacre, Lynching's, the Klu Klux Klan, Slavery, 298,000 Filipinos dying in American Philippine concentration camps, Woodrow Wilson's First and Second Caco Wars, No Gun Ri, Bear River Massacre, etc.

        3. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

          Or, just any bog-standard black activist.

      2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

        Apparently Clarence Thomas is.

  31. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

    So I saw this this morning and I have to ask: which commenter is Seamus Coughlin? I only ask because the first part sounds almost word for word like an argument I've seen recently in a comment thread here. At the very least he has to have lurked here.

    1. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      After 8 seconds of searching I can't find shamus, what did he say?

      1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

        He's the guy who runs the FreedomToons youtube channel and does a lot of the voices. I'm pretty sure he did the voice of the guy in the shirt and tie in the linked video. I just thought it was funny because it reminded me of an argument I've seen here recently.

        Specifically the part at the beginning where the stereotypical left-tard character is asking the other guy why he has an issue with drag queen story hour but is OK with taking kids to Hooters. I seem to recall literally that same argument being used by one of our resident groomer apologists the other day.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          Oh fuck you and your "groomer" slur. It's vile and bigoted to claim that drag queens are "grooming kids" for wanting to read books to them.

          1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

            It is not wanting to read books that is the issue, it is the demand to interact with children as drag queens which is questionable.

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              Why is it questionable? Do you think drag queens are *inherently* predatory towards children?

              1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                Every single right-winger I've spoken to on the matter believes that all gays are pedophiles. Granted the sample size isn't huge, but the fact that 100% of the respondents feel that way is, as the right-wingers like to say, "revealing."

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  Well that has not been my experience. It is more like, they think the gays that they see on TV or in their Facebook news feed, those gays are pedophiles and perverts and should be kept away from kids. But the guy at work that they know, who is a little swishy and everyone suspects is probably gay, well, that guy is a great person, not a weirdo, just a little 'odd'.

                  Now, when it comes to drag queens, it is much closer to 100% that they think that they are all pedophiles and perverts. Just the fact that men dress up in women's clothes is PROOF that they are pedophiles! Why else do it?

                  IMO it comes from people who have a simplistic black/white view of the world. "Normal" people do "normal" things and are "good" people. But if a person strays too far from the normative standard, then that person becomes "bad" and gets lumped in with all of the "bad" people, like pedophiles. It's hard for them to see the shades of gray beyond a strict black/white duality.

                2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                  So you’re down to white knighting Jeffy the Groomer now?

                  1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                    Thank you for providing a textbook example of the dishonest, formerly only used by leftists but now embraced by the political right, rhetorical technique I outlined below. Couldn't have done better if you tried.

                    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                      Jeff openly supports teaching sexualized topics to children and doesn't think sexually touching a kid while naked is a violation of the NAP..

                    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      Dude, you seriously got broken somewhere along the line.

                    3. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      And you've become another sad troll like the asshats I keep on mute. Which is sad because unlike them, you actually have interesting things to say now and then. Too bad you have to join them in mute-land.

                    4. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      Run away, brave Sir Sarc, run away. Maybe you’ll find Tim’s magic wand with Sqrlsy while you’re running.

                    5. JesseAz   2 years ago

                      Congrats ITL!

                    6. R Mac   2 years ago

                      Time for an updated list sarc!

                  2. JesseAz   2 years ago

                    Seems so.

                  3. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                    Oh, look. You scored some troll points too. Made them swoon.

                    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                      Victim signal lit.

                    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      Lit? Shit, it’s the freaking Pharos of Sarcalexandria.

                    3. Bertram Guilfoyle   2 years ago

                      Why do you think people care if you have them muted?

                    4. JesseAz   2 years ago

                      It is a badge of honor at this point.

                3. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                  The foundational document for "queer theory" is half an apologia for pederasty. As an ideological movement, if the shoe fits...

                  1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                    That's stupid on a stick. Do heterosexuals follow some "straight theory"? Come on. Re-engage that brain of yours. You must have bumped the off-switch.

                    1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

                      How about you do something new for once and go actually educate yourself on the topic? Links are provided here all the time. Start with "minor attracted person."

                    2. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                      Do heterosexuals follow some “straight theory”?

                      The left claim they do but they call it heteronormative or the cis-patriarchy.

                    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      See, "we" the normal people are all unique individuals and should be treated as such. But "they", the weird people, they should be lumped together as a group and treated according to their most outrageous and extreme elements.

                      "One drag queen somewhere is a convicted sex offender, therefore ALL drag queens should be kicked out of libraries"

                    4. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      “One drag queen somewhere is a convicted sex offender, therefore ALL drag queens should be kicked out of libraries”

                      Now you get it!

                    5. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      That’s stupid on a stick. Do heterosexuals follow some “straight theory”?

                      It's not stupid at all. Gayle Rubin literally wrote the book on it.

                    6. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      Know who else wrote a book?

                    7. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      You do understand that there is a "queer theory" that is an academic study started by Foucault, right? And it is the basis for much of the political arguments surrounding LGBT issues?

                    8. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Yes, we all know that "queer theory" actually exists. The problem is your assumption that just because a person is gay, or a drag queen, that this person is ideologically supporting "queer theory".

                    9. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      You do realize that most queers have no idea of what you are talking about, so claiming that that theory represents all gays is somewhere between ignorant and dishonest?

                    10. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      By that logic because the KKK claims to be Christian, all Christians must therefore be racist.

                    11. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Know who else wrote a book?

                      I expect chemtard to indulge in this kind of deflection when actual sources are provided. You really should be above that sort of thing.

                    12. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Yes yes.

                      WE are individuals and should be treated as individuals.
                      THEY are a group and should be treated like a cult.

                    13. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      You really should be above that sort of thing.

                      You're missing the point. So what if someone wrote a book? Doesn't mean they are right. Doesn't mean lots of people have heard of it. Doesn't mean the theory is correct. Doesn't mean lots of people subscribe to it.

                    14. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

                      Because Murray Rothbard wrote racist articles, therefore every libertarian follows racist ideology. Got it.

                      And let's not even begin with Ron Paul and his newsletters.

                    15. JesseAz   2 years ago

                      You truly are a dense one aren't you sarc. A lot of the materials teachers are trained on derived from these books. They are pushing the theories inside of their classrooms. They are hiding it from parents. They are utilizing the very material you are intentionally ignoring here.

                      You have an inability to argue from an intellectual foundation.

                      It is why you make up lies like the gop says all gays are groomers. Ironically the only people who make those statements are you and Jeff. Find one citation of any a semi popular person making that claim. You have invented a false strawman to avoid the actual discussion.

                    16. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      Sigh. I do not claim that all gay people or drag queens agree with that. What I am saying is that LGBT as a political and ideological movement is not disassociated from the movement to normalize pedophilia.

                      Also, the insistence that drag querns must be given a publically supported forum to perform for children is based on what, exactly? What is the reasoning for it?

                    17. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      What I am saying is that LGBT as a political and ideological movement is not disassociated from the movement to normalize pedophilia.

                      With the obvious implication that gays like to diddle kids.

                    18. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Yes yes.
                      WE are individuals and should be treated as individuals.
                      THEY are a group and should be treated like a cult.

                      Someone who whined that not letting child molesters claim refugee status was "decreasing their liberty" is hardly on any moral high ground here.

                    19. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      With the factual observation that many of the people behind the "Queer" ideological movement did diddle kids and were using it as a platform to normalize diddling kids.

                    20. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      With the factual observation that many of the people behind the “Queer” ideological movement did diddle kids and were using it as a platform to normalize diddling kids.

                      Some fruits are orange, therefore all fruits are orange.

                    21. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      If Nathan Bedford was the founder of Christianity rather than Jesus of Nazareth, then an argument could be made that Christianity is racist. But since Bedford was not, and Foucault was a founder of "Queer Theory" your comparison does not really work.

                    22. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Some fruits are orange, therefore all fruits are orange.

                      "Augustine and Thomas Aquinas had no influence on Christian thought."

                    23. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      If Nathan Bedford was the founder of Christianity rather than Jesus of Nazareth, then an argument could be made that Christianity is racist.

                      Thomas Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence and owned slaves, therefore America is racist and pro-slavery. QED

                    24. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

                      “Augustine and Thomas Aquinas had no influence on Christian thought.”

                      “Augustine and Thomas Aquinas are the ONLY influences on Christian thought and every Christian believes everything that Augustine and Thomas Aquinas believed.”

                    25. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      With the factual observation that many of the people behind the “Queer” ideological movement did diddle kids and were using it as a platform to normalize diddling kids.

                      Denny Hastert used his platform to normalize conservative ideology, and he is a pedophile. Therefore conservatism should be regarded as a pro-pedophile ideology. QED

                    26. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      sarcasmic, if someone tells you they are a Marxist and the gets offended by you saying that then they do not believe in property rights. They either do not understand Marxism or are gaslighting.

                      If LGBT as an ideological movement wants to disassociate itself from pedophilia, then it needs to discard much of its intellectual history.

                    27. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      Oh good grief. Hastert was not advocating for sex with boys along with his other political beliefs. Foucault and the other philosophers of "Queer Theory" did and do.

                    28. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      Um, chemjeff, Jefferson wrote a denunciation of slavery into the Declaration of Independence, not a rationalization of it.

                      You can accuse Jefferson of hypocrisy on the slavery issue, but you cannot say he advocated for it in that document.

                    29. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Someone who whined that not letting child molesters claim refugee status was “decreasing their liberty” is hardly on any moral high ground here.

                      Oh fuck you. This is a completely different argument with a completely different context. And we see you are doing the same thing to me in this conversation that you and Mickey Rat are doing to the LGBTQ community - smear them all by these types of bullshit associations.

                    30. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      If LGBT as an ideological movement wants to disassociate itself from pedophilia, then it needs to discard much of its intellectual history.

                      History that I doubt most gays even know exists.

                      It's no different than saying because some Democrats fought desegregation a half century ago, all of today's Democrats support segregation. Or because the KKK claimed to be inspired by Christianity, all Christians want to murder black people.

                      I expect such dishonest games from JesseAz or Mother's Lament, but you're better than that.

                      Please stop.

                    31. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Um, chemjeff, Jefferson wrote a denunciation of slavery into the Declaration of Independence, not a rationalization of it.

                      You can accuse Jefferson of hypocrisy on the slavery issue, but you cannot say he advocated for it in that document.

                      Sigh. You are missing the entire point of my comparisons here.

                      There were authors of the Constitution that owned slaves and actually defended slavery. Jefferson himself was ambivalent about slavery and was most certainly racist. NONE OF THAT MATTERS when it comes to whether modern day America, or the beliefs of individual Americans today, when it comes to racism or slavery. What determines if an individual American is a racist, is that individual's beliefs, not whatever Jefferson believed or what the Constitution says.

                      It is the same with Foucault and the LGBTQ community. I don't care what Foucault wrote. It has zero bearing on whatever an individual LGBTQ member today believes. A gay man should not be condemned as a pedophile because Foucault wrote something about queer theory.

                    32. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      A gay man should not be condemned as a pedophile because Foucault wrote something about queer theory.

                      I think that about sums it up.

                    33. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      Then stop putting words into my mouth, since I never said that it did make an INDIVIDUAL gay man a pedophile.

                      What I continue to say is that the LGBT political ideology is intimately iassociated with pedophilia apologia in its intellectual history, and is therefore suspect when it defends exposing children to its performative activities.

                    34. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      “Augustine and Thomas Aquinas had no influence on Christian thought.”

                      Dude, we're talking about gay people here, as in people who are attracted to members of the same sex.

                      It's not a dogma. It's not a religion. It's not a belief system. It's not a morality code.

                    35. R Mac   2 years ago

                      In this thread, both sarc and Lying Jeff, repeatedly conflate gays with pedophiles, while accusing their enemies of doing it.

                      Even though they’ve been told repeatedly for years that the people they’re arguing with don’t conflate them.

                      Can’t. Stop. Lying.

                    36. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                      What I continue to say is that the LGBT political ideology is intimately iassociated with pedophilia apologia in its intellectual history, and is therefore suspect when it defends exposing children to its performative activities.

                      Yes, there are some sick people out there. I’d like to think they are a minority of a minority. But when you start shouting from the rooftops that these gays are after our children, people hear that gays are all pedos.

                      Intentionally or not, you’re condemning the many for the actions of a few.

                      If you want to condemn people on the fringe, say that they’re on the fringe. What you’re doing is painting everyone with the same pedo brush. If that is not your intention, then maybe you should change what you are saying.

                    37. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      What I continue to say is that the LGBT political ideology is intimately iassociated with pedophilia apologia in its intellectual history, and is therefore suspect when it defends exposing children to its performative activities.

                      And what I continue to say is that IT DOESN'T MATTER and the only reason to bring it up is to smear gays as pedophiles.

                    38. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      Tell JK Rowling, the pitcher for the Blue Jay's who was cut for not wanting to participate in "Pride Night" anyone denigrated as a TERF, "superstraight" or "homophopbe" or "transphobe" that it is not a religion with a moral obligation.

                      No one who has been paying attention in at least the last five years can say that with any honesty.

                    39. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      jeff, I've got a suggestion. Acknowledge what the other party is saying. If some part of it is true, then agree. "Yes some gays are pedos (that's the agreement part), but the way you portray things you appear to accuse all gays of being pedos (that's the critical part)." Mixing in some agreement and acknowledgement can go far in a conversation with someone. Granted most people in these comments are impervious to such things, but still there's no harm in trying.

                    40. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      Tell JK Rowling, the pitcher for the Blue Jay’s who was cut for not wanting to participate in “Pride Night” anyone denigrated as a TERF, “superstraight” or “homophopbe” or “transphobe” that it is not a religion with a moral obligation.

                      You're committing the "some equals all" fallacy again.

                      Keep calling out the assholes for being assholes. Stop condemning everyone they are associated with.

                    41. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      sarcasmic, that is the exact same reasoning for suppressing any speculation that COVID came from the Wuhan labs, it is entirely a corrupt political consideration. You are effectively putting the LGBT political movement beyond criticism.

                    42. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      "You are effectively putting the LGBT political movement beyond criticism."

                      What I see is the equivalent of saying all blacks support BLM and were complicit in the riots and property destruction. If you want to go after a political movement, then by all means do so. But don't condemn every gay person while you're doing it.

                    43. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      "You are committing the some equals all fallacy again."

                      No, I am not. That is the conclusion you are jumping to, which indicates a great insecurity in your argument on your part.

                    44. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      "which indicates a great insecurity in your argument on your part."

                      You had to make it personal. I've been doing my best to treat you with respect and differentiate between intentions and appearances. But you had to go there.

                      That means I won the argument. Fuck off. My opinion of you just went down a notch.

                    45. Mickey Rat   2 years ago (edited)

                      There you go with the pigeon act, then.

                      Also, I am not sure how to call the assholes, assholes without you assuming I am calling everyone that may superficially similar an asshole.

                    46. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Oh fuck you. This is a completely different argument with a completely different context.

                      Bullshit, fucko. You said what you said.

                    47. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Dude, we’re talking about gay people here, as in people who are attracted to members of the same sex.
                      It’s not a dogma. It’s not a religion. It’s not a belief system. It’s not a morality code.

                      Oh, I'd say the left's actions over the last 15 years very much put gender and TQ+++ marxism in the category of a system of religious belief.

                    48. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                      Also, I am not sure how to call the assholes, assholes without you assuming I am calling everyone that may superficially similar an asshole.

                      Maybe you could call out pedos for being pedos instead of painting all gays as such.

                      *shrug*

                    49. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                      Oh, I’d say the left’s actions over the last 15 years very much put gender and TQ+++ marxism in the category of a system of religious belief.

                      Very true. Doesn’t mean that politics are genetic. Just because some political movement lays claim to a group of people doesn’t mean that those people belong to the political movement.

                      You’re doing the equivalent of some asshat on the left declaring that because you’re a gun owner you masturbate to pro-wrestling when you’re not having sex with your drunk, underage stepdaughter.

                      No offence to Nardz and Sevo.

                    50. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

                      I expect such dishonest games from JesseAz or Mother’s Lament,

                      "Dishonest Games" from Sarcasmic means posting quotes he made while drunk that he wants to pretend didn't happen.

                    51. JesseAz   2 years ago

                      Sarcasmic tried to call out ML and I as he continues to retreat to a strawman fallacy nobody is making that gay = pedophile even after being corrected 2 dozen times. Amazing.

                  2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                    The foundational document for America, the US Constitution, is "half an apologia" for slavery. Therefore, if the shoe fits...

                    1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      It follows the same "logic" as "some fruits are oranges, therefore all fruit are oranges."

                    2. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                      How so? Care to provide an example.

                    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      It is the same stupid argument as Mickey Rat's.

                    4. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago (edited)

                      It is the same stupid argument as Mickey Rat’s.

                      Not really. The entire basis of Foucault’s research centered on the idea that “marginalization” of any demographic was bad if it fell outside the cultural status quo of the time. People like Gayle Rubin, Kimberle Crenshaw, Judith Butler, etc., simply ran with the concept. Rubin’s “Thinking Sex” in particular blatantly includes pedophilia as an identity that was being unjustly “marginalized.”

                      Their work, like any other form of post-modern cultural marxism, all accelerated the intellectual basis for making pederasty simply another form of sexual identity which justified the exploitation and abuse of children as “liberating” rather than deviant.

                      The Consititution not only established a basis for the eventual end of the slave trade, there was plenty of debate among the founders at the time as to whether the practice needed to be ended entirely right then and there. This later became the basis for passing the 13th Amendment. Equating that with the formation and evolution of queer theory doesn't even pass the laugh test.

                    5. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Once again:
                      Some of the authors of the Constitution were not just slaveowners, but supported and justified slavery. Therefore, America itself is pro-slavery.

                      That is basically your argument, applied to drag queens.

                      Once your stupid argument is applied to the in-group, it is revealed to be the stupidity that it is.

                    6. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                      Someone wrote a book, therefore all gays are deviant Marxist pedophiles? Seriously?

                      Shit dude, you might as well say politics are genetic.

                    7. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Someone wrote a book, therefore all gays are deviant Marxist pedophiles? Seriously?

                      Talk about dishonest framing and a massive strawman. You might as well claim that the Federalist papers had no effect on the drafting of the Constitution.

                      Pointing out that pederasty has been a subculture within the gay rights movement, and that it's empirically been presented as a marginalized identity by influential gay academics, isn't a particularly revelatory statement. You really think it's an accident that the NAMBLA types were shunted to the margins of the movement in the 80s and 90s during the AIDS scare, after being rather open and notable allies up to then?

                    8. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Once again:
                      Some of the authors of the Constitution were not just slaveowners, but supported and justified slavery. Therefore, America itself is pro-slavery.

                      Except the Constitution was not drafted to support and justify slavery, so your analogy falls apart from its inception. "Thinking Sex," on the other hand, explicitly includes pedophilia amongst oppressed sexual identities.

                      Once again, you get incredibly defensive when you think your allies might not have access to sexualize kids.

                    9. sarcasmic   2 years ago (edited)

                      Pointing out that pederasty has been a subculture within the gay rights movement...

                      What’s the point of pointing that out if not to claim all gays are attracted to children, especially in light of current political debates? Come on.

                    10. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      What’s the point of pointing that out if not to claim all gays are attracted to children, especially in light of current political debates? Come on.

                      "Gosh, why are our efforts to sexualize children getting so much pushback all of a sudden? It's quite the mystery!"

                    11. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Pointing out that pederasty has been a subculture within the gay rights movement,

                      Christian nationalism is a subculture within the Christian community. Therefore all Christians should be associated with Christian nationalism and treated as such. QED

                    12. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

                      What’s the point of pointing that out if not to claim all gays are attracted to children, especially in light of current political debates? Come on.

                      That’s the WHOLE STRATEGY.

                      Associate gays with pedophiles to trick people into getting rid of “the gay agenda”, because they think they are getting rid of pedophilia instead.

                      Associate instruction on racism that conservatives disagree with, with “critical race theory”, to trick people into supporting right-wing indoctrination in schools, because they think they are getting rid of this weird theory instead.

                    13. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                      In all these arguments, Jeffy always argues about scale but never denies the pederast exist within the gay community or ever denounces pedophilia. Not even once. Just "how dare you call me a groomer!!"

                    14. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago (edited)

                      That’s the WHOLE STRATEGY.

                      Associate gays with pedophiles to trick people into getting rid of “the gay agenda”, because they think they are getting rid of pedophilia instead.

                      You have it backwards. That is the strategy of the Marxist activists driving the agenda at this point because honest gay activists went home to their husbands and wives once they got what they wanted.

                      The strategy is to continue associating gays with pedophiles while pointing to a bunch of science that shows that gays are not, in fact, likely to be pedophiles, while engaging activist teachers to wedge sex and gender education into elementary schools so that when people react to their 1st grader’s curriculum that teaches them to accept sexually deviant behavior as normal by calling it grooming (which it is), you can point and scream CONSPIRACY THEORY, GAYS ARE NOT PEDOPHILES.

                      Want proof? Look in the mirror. Here you are saying that anyone here calling out grooming is discrediting themselves using an argument that nobody here ever made.

                    15. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      In all these arguments, Jeffy always argues about scale but never denies the pederast exist within the gay community or ever denounces pedophilia. Not even once. Just “how dare you call me a groomer!!”

                      Of course pederasts exist within the gay community. They exist within every community, unfortunately.

                      And I have always denounced pedophilia. Not once have I ever offered any support for it whatsoever. It is a vile and disgusting crime.

                      The objection is and always been the redefinition of the word 'groomer' by your team to mean far more than behavior that has nothing to do about preparing kids for sex, to include simply stuff that your team disagrees with, such as having any discussion with kids AT ALL about ANY LGBTQ issue.

                    16. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      "to mean far more than behavior that has nothing to do about preparing kids for sex"

                      er, that should read: "to mean far more than behavior associated with preparing kids for sex"

                    17. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                      Turns out most men who like to stick their penises into anuses are heterosexual. It's a dominance thing, not a gay thing. Most gays are puffers. Almost makes me wonder if the trolls who try to assert dominance in these comments also like to ejaculate into poop. Almost.

                    18. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                      Christian nationalism is a subculture within the Christian community.

                      What's wrong with Christian nationalism? The belief in manifest destiny is one of the big reasons the US achieved the success that it did.

                    19. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      What’s wrong with Christian nationalism?

                      For starters, the union of church and state is a problem.

                      But the point of the comment, was that the existence of a Christian nationalist subculture within Christianity is not an indictment of the entire religion.

                    20. R Mac   2 years ago

                      Jeffy thinks the nation is only the state. Quite telling.

                    21. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago (edited)

                      For starters, the union of church and state is a problem.

                      Where was there a union of church and state? The nation’s culture developed the way that it did, and accomplished what it did, precisely because over 90% of its citizens were Christians who took pride in being Americans.

                      And more to the point, there's nothing inherently wrong with Christian nationalism. There is something inherently wrong with pederasty and claiming that being a pedophilia is a sexual identity.

                4. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  Not one right wing person you've interacted with has made that claim. That isn't what is being said. You openly lie. Why?

              2. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                Just the ones who demand an audience of children.

          2. sarcasmic   2 years ago

            Calling them "groomers" is an intentionally dishonest rhetorical technique. It serves two purposes. First it elicits an emotional reaction from those who are scared of the gays, and you can't reason someone out of something they arrived at through emotion. Second it means that the people using this technique will call anyone who doesn't go along of being a "groomer," which shuts off debate by eliciting that emotional reaction against the dissenter.

            It's straight out of the leftist playbook that the right has now embraced as their own.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

              Amazing how you’ve divined the arguments of others so incorrectly. Maybe it is because you have everyone on mute so you rush to a strawman argument instead?

              GAC is being done at earlier and earlier ages with permanent harm to children. This is done for both social and monetary benefits.

              Teachers as early as pre k are introducing and encouraging trans acceptance. In elementary school teachers are asking kids if they feel like they are in the wrong body. In middle school they form clubs and encourage active transitioning. They provide books about sex and even books with QR codes for grindr. The teachers are trained to hide this from parents. Teachers even tell kids to hide it from their kids in case their parents don’t accept it. It is literally grooming techniques.

              It isnt simply informational discussions but active encouragement. Both in transitioning and disassociate with people who disagree. The same tactics also used by cults grooming new applicants and members.

              But please, go all in on defending this as you defend everything the left does.

            2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

              intentionally dishonest rhetorical technique

              Dishonesty is about all the Trump Cultists have left.

              I saw where the Pillow Guy is losing his factories for hitching his wagon to the Trump Liars train. Everything Donnie touches turns to shit.

              1. Sevo   2 years ago

                turd lies. turd lies when he knows he’s lying. turd lies when we know he’s lying. turd lies when he knows that we know he’s lying.
                turd lies. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit and a pederast besides.

              2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                Dishonesty is your middle name, Shrike. Tell us how you got your original handle banned here. I believe it had something to do with posting hardcore child porn to the site.

              3. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                A buisness is not doing well in the Biden boom? No way. I smell fake news.

          3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

            So drag is now G-rated main stream normal? And kids from families who disagree should be groomed, er, normalized? And drag queens off of a stage are not motivated by some sort of sexuality?

            Fuck you.

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              So drag is now G-rated main stream normal?

              Is Hooters "G-rated main stream normal"?

              1. sarcasmic   2 years ago

                I've got fond memories of Hooters. They'd let me drink there when I was 19 and 20.

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  Weren't you just crying yesterday about how you got the drunk label here?

            2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              And drag queens off of a stage are not motivated by some sort of sexuality?

              How do you know what motivates "drag queens" as a group?

              It is your bigoted ASSUMPTION that they are all motivated by some sort of perverted sexual desire.

              What if they just like dressing up in absurd outrageous women's costumes and having fun?

              What if they are all different people doing different things for different reasons and don't march lockstep as some ideological cult?

            3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

              And kids from families who disagree should be groomed, er, normalized?

              This is where your team has, in Orwellian fashion, perverted the language to fit your ideology.

              You want to associate “grooming”, which means the disgusting practice of preparing kids for sex, with drag queens reading books to kids, because you want people to associate the two emotionally in their heads. It is vile and wrong, but that is your team’s strategy now, because arguing honestly for your position doesn’t work.

              “Kick the drag queens out of the libraries because they are perverts and pedophiles” is transparently bigoted and would be opposed by most people.

              “Kick the drag queens out of the libraries because they are grooming kids” is more palatable, and not as transparently bigoted.

              It’s the same trick your team did with “critical race theory”, and with “indoctrination”. You want to associate perfectly legitimate behavior that you object to, with outrageously illegitimate behavior that everyone objects to, in order to fool people into supporting your ideology.

              1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                I know you like to run away to make the same argument another day, but you got lambasted for your idiotic Hooters take on Monday. I will repost what I wrote.

                He is wrong about sexualization of children. If a kid sees a waitress at a Hooters that is not sexualization. It is not going to generate questions in a young mind that require a discussion of adult sexual activity to explain. Just as when a kid merely sees a tranny in public, that is not sexualization. A kid isn’t even going to know at a glance if a person in a dress is a man. Even if they do realize it, it doesn’t require a discussion of sexual activity to explain. If you have ever actual spent any time around children, you know this stuff.

                And – news flash – kids rubbing themselves may feel good, but it is not sex. Kids can be guided that it is not acceptable to do so in the presence of others without any discussion on the merits or sinful nature of self-pleasure. I myself had this discussion with both of my own children.

                So, what is sexualization? Certainly drag shows, the entire purpose of which is a performer expressing a sexual identity. Talking to kids about what it means to be homosexual or queer. Telling kids that who they are attracted to means their gender may not align with their biological sex. Discussing masturbation with kids. Any conversation that requires explicitly describing adult sexual activity or leads kids directly to questions about adult sexual activity.

                Exposing pre-pubescent kids to adult sexual activity is not acceptable. It can be very harmful. It is classic grooming behavior exhibited by sexual predators.

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  So, what is sexualization? Certainly drag shows, the entire purpose of which is a performer expressing a sexual identity.

                  So explain why a Hooters Girl, who wears deliberately short shorts, and wears a top deliberately designed to accentuate her breasts, *isn't* "sexualization" by this standard.

                  1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                    Did you read what I wrote? First, if you want to have an honest conversation, you have to acknowledge that young kids don't get turned on. They see a costume, not her tits and ass. Second, if kids have questions about the Hooters girl, they can be answered without talking about sexual activity.

                    Even if a child asked a provocative question like, "Daddy, why is that girl wearing that shirt that makes her boobs look big?" It can in all honesty be answered with, "She makes more money when the boys think she is pretty." It is not necessary or proper to have a conversation about sex appeal with a five-year old.

                    There is a time-honored tradition of "adult" jokes about sex in kids movies that get ignored by censors precisely because kids don't have the capacity to understand the joke.

                    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      You dodged the question.

                      You wrote that a drag shows constitutes "sexualization" because the performers are "expressing a sexual identity".

                      I argue that a Hooters Girl is just as much "expressing a sexual identity" when she wears a uniform that deliberately and purposefully accentuates her legs and breasts.

                      By YOUR STANDARD, if kids should be kept away from drag shows because it's "sexualization", then kids should be kept away from Hooters because it's "sexualization".

                      And, if the right-wing culture warriors are right in wanting to ban drag shows from performing to kids because it's "sexualization", then they should also be wanting to ban Hooters from serving kids because it's "sexualization".

                      So why have the right-wing culture warriors focused all their energy on drag shows, and not on Hooters?

                    2. R Mac   2 years ago

                      “Did you read what I wrote?”

                      Mostly, Lying Jeffy skims people’s arguments looking for a nit he can pick, while going out of his way to miss their point.

                    3. R Mac   2 years ago (edited)

                      “You dodged the question.”

                      He most certainly did not, liar.

                    4. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      I did not dodge the question. I answered the question you asked, not some other question you wanted me to answer.

                      I argue that a Hooters Girl is just as much “expressing a sexual identity” when she wears a uniform that deliberately and purposefully accentuates her legs and breasts.

                      That is silly. She is a woman. She is accentuating her sex appeal, not her sexual identity.

                      By YOUR STANDARD, if kids should be kept away from drag shows because it’s “sexualization”, then kids should be kept away from Hooters because it’s “sexualization”.

                      That is a standard you came up with by deliberately ignoring what I wrote. It is also a non sequitur. The conclusion does not follow from the premise. As I already argued, "It is not necessary or proper to have a conversation about sex appeal with a five-year old."

                      I have been to drag shows. They are transvestite burlesque. Burlesque involves flashing and a sexually provocative performance. It is not appropriate for kids. How can you explain it to a kid without discussing the sexual identity of the performer and introducing the concept of fetishistic behavior. Kids ask "Why?" A lot.

                      And if you remove the flashing and sexually provocative dancing, it isn't a drag show, just a guy in a dress singing. Nobody is going to that show. Neither is that what is being prohibited.

                      So why have the right-wing culture warriors focused all their energy on drag shows, and not on Hooters?

                      You moved goalposts, engaged in non sequiturs and you capped it off with a completely begged question. I will answer it anyway. I don't give a fuck what right-wing culture warriors do because I am not one. I am fine with drag shows. But I am not going to let you pretend they are not sexual performances.

                    5. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Fine. I disagree with your definition of "sexualization". I don't think "expressing a sexual identity" is necessarily "sexualization". I don't think there is one single definition that can apply to all children and all parents under all situations. I think it ought to be left up to parents to decide what "sexualization" means to them and how they should best raise their kids. And I think the government should largely butt out and not try to enforce one single standard upon everyone, beyond violations of the NAP.

                      If you don't want to take your kids to Hooters then don't go.
                      If you don't want to take your kids to Drag Queen Story Hour then don't go.
                      If you don't want to take your kids to a drag show then don't go.
                      But none of that should be illegal.

                      I see the right-wing culture warriors wanting to enforce a standard of "sexualization" that unfairly targets LGBTQ-themed activities as inherently worse than heterosexual ones.

                    6. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      I don’t think “expressing a sexual identity” is necessarily “sexualization”.

                      That is because you deny that drag queens in general and drag shows specifically are highly sexualized. You are ignorant and should educate yourself.

                      I think it ought to be left up to parents to decide what “sexualization” means to them and how they should best raise their kids.

                      I agree. You can take a trip to SF or NYC and take your kid to drag shows. But schools should steer away from the sexual topics as much as possible and that is not what teachers are being trained to do.

                      And I think the government should largely butt out and not try to enforce one single standard upon everyone

                      No standards is a standard in and of itself. Citizens have every right to petition the government to set or rescind standards within the limits of the Constitution. If you don't like the standards in your community, then vote. If you don't like the result, then move.

                      But none of that should be illegal.

                      None of it should be happening. But it is. Again, you can always move somewhere it isn't illegal instead of demanding the someone else accept it.

                      I see the right-wing culture warriors wanting to enforce a standard of “sexualization” that unfairly targets LGBTQ-themed activities as inherently worse than heterosexual ones.

                      First, it is not just right-wing culture warriors. Quit pretending that there is not a majority of the population that is not OK with kids at drag shows. Second, it is not targeting them as inherently worse, it is targeting them as inherently sexual. Quit pretending that appending a sexuality to an event doesn't change the nature of the event. "Drag Queen Story Hour" =/= "Story Hour" and the only difference is not the sex of the person in the dress.

                    7. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      That is because you deny that drag queens in general and drag shows specifically are highly sexualized. You are ignorant and should educate yourself.

                      No, it's because I don't think a gay man acting like a gay man is necessarily bad or harmful to kids. Same with drag queens. And even if YOU think they are "highly sexualized", other parents might disagree. So what?

                      But schools should steer away from the sexual topics

                      But the problem here is that you all tend to believe that ANY discussion of homosexuality is INHERENTLY a 'sexual topic' that ought to be off-limits. That unfairly stigmatizes LGBTQ people and sends the message to kids that they are weird deviants and it is a taboo subject, when that's not true.

                      If it is fine to talk about a man and a woman falling in love, in whatever age-appropriate manner, then it should be equally fine to talk about two men falling in love, or two women falling in love. Simply mentioning that it is possible for two men to fall in love is not OO SCARY SEXUAL any more than mentioning that a man and a woman can fall in love.

                      Just drop the double standard between heterosexuality and homosexuality and we wouldn't have an issue.

                    8. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Quit pretending that appending a sexuality to an event doesn’t change the nature of the event. “Drag Queen Story Hour” =/= “Story Hour” and the only difference is not the sex of the person in the dress.

                      So, a hypothetical library decides to have a "Straight Guy Story Hour" where straight guys read books to kids. (This would probably be illegal based on antidiscrimination laws, but it's a hypothetical library.) Is this an issue for you?

                    9. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      So, a hypothetical library decides to have a “Straight Guy Story Hour” where straight guys read books to kids. (This would probably be illegal based on antidiscrimination laws, but it’s a hypothetical library.) Is this an issue for you?

                      Is your absurdist argument an issue for me? No.

                      In the same way that "Story Hour" would eliminate any issues that "Straight Guy Story Hour" creates, it supports my point that "Drag Queen Story Hour" is specifically intended to highlight the drag queen over the story.

                    10. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      But the problem here is that you all tend to believe that ANY discussion of homosexuality is INHERENTLY a ‘sexual topic’ that ought to be off-limits. That unfairly stigmatizes LGBTQ people and sends the message to kids that they are weird deviants and it is a taboo subject, when that’s not true.

                      You can't just state unproven allegations and expect them to be accepted. Everyone can read what I wrote:
                      I never stated it was inherent.
                      You offer no proof that it stigmatizes LGBTQ people.
                      Kids have no concept of deviancy until it taught to them.
                      I specifically stated it wasn't taboo.

                      You have to invent a bunch of stuff that nobody is saying to make it a double standard. Get the hint. When you can't make a rational argument, perhaps your premise isn't rational. Perhaps there is no way for teachers discuss human sexuality without discussing sexual activity. Which is what they are doing.

                      I don't know about you, chemjeff, but I have friends that are gay and lesbian. Despite never having been exposed to any teaching about it in school, I accept them. I have conversations with them and zero arguments. I respect them and they respect me. We don't talk about our sex lives because it isn't appropriate. I don't have any friends that "identify" as anything because I don't associate with crazy people outside my family.

                    11. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      I never stated it was inherent.
                      You offer no proof that it stigmatizes LGBTQ people.
                      Kids have no concept of deviancy until it taught to them.
                      I specifically stated it wasn’t taboo.

                      Then fine, what's the problem with Drag Queen Story Hour again?

                      If you don't have a double standard, then drag queens reading books to kids is *exactly the same* as straight guys reading books to kids. Or anyone else for that matter.

                      It wouldn't matter if it was "Drag Queen Story Hour" or "Straight Guy Story Hour" or "Scientist Story Hour" or "Magician Story Hour" or any other category of people deciding to read books to kids.

                      Perhaps there is no way for teachers discuss human sexuality without discussing sexual activity.

                      Sure there is, and I illustrated such: "Sometimes a prince and a princess can fall in love, and sometimes two princes can fall in love, and sometimes two princesses can fall in love". There. No sexual activity discussed.

                      If you truly don't have a double standard, then I don't understand the hangup with Drag Queen Story Hour.

                    12. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      Never an honest response from you.

                2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  Talking to kids about what it means to be homosexual or queer.

                  There is no necessary reason why talking to kids about what it means to be homosexual or queer must entail a discussion about "adult sexual activity". For example:

                  "Sometimes, a prince and a princess fall in love. But sometimes, two princes can fall in love, or two princesses can fall in love."

                  There, no discussion about 'adult sexual activity'.

                  So, why is that "sexualization"?

                  1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                    There is no necessary reason why talking to kids about what it means to be homosexual or queer must entail a discussion about “adult sexual activity”. For example:

                    “Sometimes, a prince and a princess fall in love. But sometimes, two princes can fall in love, or two princesses can fall in love.”

                    Do you really think that example is the extent of talking to kids about what it means to be homosexual? Because you are right, there is nothing inherently wrong with what you wrote there. But kids don't understand romantic love. To a kid, love is the family bond.

                    When a kid raises their hand and says, "How do two princes fall in love? They can't have a family." How is the teacher supposed to respond? You have been shown that their training is to tell kids that men can be sexually attracted to each other. That is a discussion of adult sexual activity. It is not appropriate.

                    If they were being trained to respond, "You need to ask your parents," we wouldn't be having this ridiculous conversation where I explain to you again that kids are forced to attend school and so teaching them a particular moral philosophy is indoctrination.

                    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Do you really think that example is the extent of talking to kids about what it means to be homosexual? Because you are right, there is nothing inherently wrong with what you wrote there. But kids don’t understand romantic love. To a kid, love is the family bond.

                      At, say, a first-grade level? I think that would be a suitably age-appropriate discussion to have.

                      When a kid raises their hand and says, “How do two princes fall in love? They can’t have a family.” How is the teacher supposed to respond?

                      The same way a prince and a princess fall in love - they really really like each other, so much so that they decide they would be happier if they spent their lives together. There you go, no discussion about sexual intercourse.

                      If they were being trained to respond, “You need to ask your parents,” we wouldn’t be having this ridiculous conversation where I explain to you again that kids are forced to attend school and so teaching them a particular moral philosophy is indoctrination.

                      But the problem is that telling them "you need to ask your parents", but *only when confronted with LGBTQ issues*, is implicitly reinforcing the idea that LGBTQ people are weird and strange and taboo, while heterosexual people are not. And THAT in itself is a type of moral lesson. It can't be avoided. So the answer for public schools IMO is to teach a moral lesson of tolerance and inclusion and respect. Don't avoid any question, because even avoiding the question tells a particular type of answer (probably not the intended one). Answer every question honestly, professionally and in an age-appropriate manner.

                    2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago (edited)

                      You are obtuse to the point of inciting rage.

                      You deliberately copied everything I wrote and agreed with it initially. But you excluded:

                      “You have been shown that their training is to tell kids that men can be sexually attracted to each other. That is a discussion of adult sexual activity. It is not appropriate.”

                      And then proceeded to argue a point I never made:

                      telling them “you need to ask your parents”, but *only when confronted with LGBTQ issues*

                      You are dishonest. Your arguments are empty once the fallacies are removed. And your conclusion…

                      Don’t avoid any question, because even avoiding the question tells a particular type of answer (probably not the intended one). Answer every question honestly, professionally and in an age-appropriate manner.

                      …sounds reasonable except for the part where that is not what they are actually training teachers to do.

                      You defend the sexualization of kids though fallacy. Dissemble, deflect, distract.

                    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      “You have been shown that their training is to tell kids that men can be sexually attracted to each other. That is a discussion of adult sexual activity. It is not appropriate.”

                      I don't know what their training is specifically, and furthermore, as you know, education is highly decentralized in this country, so teacher training can vary quite a bit from school district to school district. Maybe there is some school district somewhere that is teaching 6-year-olds about sexual intercourse, and if so that would be wrong in my view. I really don't think that is the norm in this country though.

                      And frankly, I don't think it is wrong to tell kids that men can fall in love with each other, JUST LIKE I don't think it is wrong to tell kids that men and women can fall in love with each other. Again, no double standard. It would be wrong to have "sex talk" with little kids, yes, but that is true whether it is heterosexual sexual intercourse or homosexual sexual intercourse. Once again, no double standard.

                      If you truly don't have a double standard, why do you keep going back to "don't tell kids about two men having sexual relations"? Okay fine, I agree. But that is also true about "don't tell kids about a man and a woman having sexual relations".

                    4. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      If you truly don’t have a double standard, why do you keep going back to “don’t tell kids about two men having sexual relations”? Okay fine, I agree. But that is also true about “don’t tell kids about a man and a woman having sexual relations”.

                      It is only you that keeps going back to your circular "two princes" answer. I have been completely consistent that it is not appropriate to talk to kids about sexuality. Stories that include romantic love that might lead to questions about sexuality are also inappropriate.

                      I never once was read a story about people falling in love in grade school. Neither were my children. You make a perfect point that teachers are choosing inappropriate books just so that they can teach this crap.

              2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                It’s the same trick your team did with “critical race theory”, and with “indoctrination”.

                Where is Sarc? He needs to see what real gaslighting looks like.

                Critical race theory is without question being promulgated in public schools despite continually being refuted and discredited by scholars like Thomas Sowell for the grifter bullshit that it is. It gets torn to pieces in every debate. Promoting discredit theories in public schools meets any definition of indoctrination.

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  Yes, there were some teachers teaching actual critical race theory. The ISSUE was Team Red trying to associate a lot of stuff that they objected to UNDER the umbrella of 'critical race theory' when it clearly wasn't. Heck, Christopher Rufo even bragged openly that this is what he was doing.

                  The purposeful strategy was to replace the curriculum that Team Red objected to with a more conservative-friendly version, by tricking people into thinking that what they were doing was really just getting rid of this weird crazy theory.

                  1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                    Except the part where the weird crazy theory is woven throughout the curriculum and you have failed to demonstrate what "conservative-friendly version" is attempting to be substituted.

                    You have been shown the egregious examples of CRT infected Math and the 1619 version of American History.

        2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

          Got ir

        3. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          So he’s obviously come across IncelJeffy. Tell me, did this stock lefty character also have a terrible analogy about bears in trunks?

        4. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          Wow, spooky!

          That video was the exact conversation Jeff had with me yesterday. He was demanding to know why I thought taking kids to Hooters was okay but not a drag queen show,
          He was lost when I said it wasn't okay to take kids to hooters. Freaky.

    2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

      So, Team Red might both be opposed to taking kids to Drag Queen Story Hour, and taking kids to Hooters. But in only one of these cases is Team Red going apeshit bananas creating a moral panic and passing new laws and initiating culture war sturm and drang about the practice in the name of “protecting kids”, and in the other case, Team Red sits back and does nothing and says “well, I’m not in favor of it, but I don’t think we should pass new laws, just don’t take your kids there if you don’t want to go”.

      Why is that, do you think?

      I will give you a hint: it's because in one of those cases, some of the people are GAY

      1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

        "Drag Queen Story Hour" is generally a thing associated with public institutions, like libraries which are supported by tax dollars. Hooter is...not.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          The recent laws about drag shows, treating them as equivalent to adult entertainment, affect all places of public accommodation, including private businesses.

          1. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

            The recent laws about drag shows, treating them as equivalent to adult entertainment

            That's because they WERE considered adult entertainment for decades, and why kids were generally discouraged from attending.

            1. JesseAz   2 years ago

              The laws explicitly said drag shows that utilize sexual content. Jeff is just lying about the laws yet again.

              1. R Mac   2 years ago

                It’s really all he does.

          2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago (edited)

            Any children at Hooters were not stuffing dollar bills into the waitresses tank tops. At the drag shows prepubescents were putting dollar bills into the drag queens lingerie.

            Also, why did you change the subject?

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              The laws in question didn't rely on anyone stuffing dollar bills anywhere.

              At least ML was willing to say that he did not support taking kids to Hooters. How about you?

              1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                The laws in question came about after several videos from drag shows that were rather sexuslized and did involve children putting tips into the performer's lingerie.

                Hooters is no where near that type of atmosphere, though I would not take a child to one.

                Again, what is the purpose of having drag queens perform for children?

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  Again, what is the purpose of having drag queens perform for children?

                  What is the purpose of having scantily clad women serve food to kids?

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                    Last I looked, shorts and a t-shirt were not exactly scanty. You seem to be making the female body sexual by its very nature, Jeffy. This is why I call you an incel and a misogynist.

                    Now, what need does a grown man dressed as a woman need with tossing his junk, clothed or unclothed into the face of a prepubescent kid? What purpose does that serve, IncelJeffy?

                    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Oh give it a rest. The Hooters Girl uniform is purposefully designed to accentuate her legs and breasts. It is not an ordinary waitress uniform. Do you think the word "Hooters" REALLY refers only to an owl?

                    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      So, what do you think of similar attire on women outside of Hooters? How about bikinis on the beach, incel?

                    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      You tell me. You are on the team who wants to create the morality police in the name of "protecting kids".

                    4. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      No, dipshit, you tell me. You’re the asshole claiming a Hooters uniform is scanty while defending men dressed as women puting their junk in the faces of prepubescent kids. You tell me.

                    5. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      That is your standard MO. You always try to put the other person on the defensive so that you can go on full attack mode. Which means, you won't answer a question yourself, or construct a logical argument, because those are positions that require defending. Instead, you'll just insist that everyone else answer questions and construct arguments, and then just attack those responses all day.

                      So I am not going to play your game. I do provide my share of arguments and I do answer my share of questions. But I'm going to insist that you do your part and answer questions and construct arguments and defend those as well.

                      So I am going to ask you again. What is the purpose of having scantily clad women serve food to kids?

                      And don't try to deflect by claiming 'oh they're not all that scantily clad'; FOR WAITRESSES, they are.

                    6. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      Project much, Jeffy? I asked you the question first, then you dishonestly claim this MO is mine. Ever look in a mirror?

                    7. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      There you go. Attack attack attack. That is all you want to do.

                  2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago (edited)

                    I asked first.

                    Seriously, you go to great lengths to avoid discussing the context of what you are advocating.

                    Sorry, Hooters is not equivalent to the drag shows where kids are tippling the performers Strip clubs are, and no one I know of thinks taking children into those is acceptable.

                    Your "whataboutism" here is absurd, and you cannot be bothered to justify your position.

                    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      And that's my answer.

                      Hooters Girls don't need to justify to you why they are serving food to kids. They just need to justify it to their customers.

                      Drag queens don't need to justify to you why they are reading books to kids. They just need to justify it to their patrons.

                    2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

                      And again, you are changing the subject. Hooters are private businesses. Libraries are taxpayer funded.

                    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      Sorry, Hooters is not equivalent to the drag shows where kids are tippling the performers

                      No it isn't. Hooters is WORSE than Drag Queen Story Hour on this level. Drag queens aren't performing or dancing. They are just reading books. And Hooters Girls DO get tips generally based on their service.

                      The ONLY reason that Team Red decided to create a moral panic about drag queens is because they are expressing a non-heterosexual identity in front of kids. THAT'S IT. Not because of 'grooming' or trying to turn kids gay. They know that is a lie. It is because they don't want kids exposed to the gays.

                    4. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                      Another "bears in trunks" moment for our resident incel and misogynist, Jeffy.

      2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

        You tried this dumb analogy to Hooters already and couldn't make it stick then. Going back the same retarded well doesn't make your assertion any more accurate.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          It completely points out your team's hypocrisy.

          "Sexualizing kids" is okay when it's heterosexuals doing it in the "normal" way. And even if it's not okay, it is not worth raising a big fuss over.

          "Sexualizing kids" only becomes a moral panic when there are gays involved. Because your team regards just being gay around a kid as INHERENTLY "sexualizing kids".

          1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

            “Sexualizing kids” is okay when it’s heterosexuals doing it in the “normal” way. And even if it’s not okay, it is not worth raising a big fuss over

            Absolutely nobody has said that. You are unhinged on this topic.

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              Absolutely nobody has said that.

              That is Team Red's revealed preferences by their actions.

              Once again, which right-wing culture warrior has proposed banning kids from Hooters?

              1. Nobartium   2 years ago

                They don't have to, there's no great mass of parents having their kids going to Hooters.

                Now when that happens (and it will), that will change.

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  They don’t have to, there’s no great mass of parents having their kids going to Hooters.

                  What are you talking about? Hooters even has a kids' menu.

                  I'm willing to bet that there are FAR MORE kids who have gone to Hooters, than have gone to any drag queen story hour.

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                    Cite, misogynist?

                  2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                    What are you talking about? Hooters even has a kids’ menu.

                    Hooters also has take-out.

                    You have responded multiple times to my other posts where I have pointed that this is moot because kids are not attracted to Hooters girls and so your claim that exposure to the waitresses is sexualization is invalid, but you keep ignoring it.

                    Want proof that "Drag Queen Story Hour" is intended to sexualize kids? It is right there in the title. The libraries are deliberately billing the man dressed as a woman as being most important aspect of the event. Otherwise they would just call it "Story Hour" and they controversy would disappear.

                    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      I fundamentally disagree with you that a man dressing up as a woman constitutes "sexualization" per se.

                    2. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      I fundamentally disagree with you that a man dressing up as a woman constitutes “sexualization” per se.

                      Again, you are deranged. Nobody is saying that.

                      I love the way you qualified it though, you just can't resist equivocating.

                    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      There *are* people saying that. Just read some of the other comments.

                      But it sure looks like you want to have it both ways.

                      You claim:
                      “Drag Queen Story Hour” is intended to sexualize kids

                      but then you disagree with the statement
                      a man dressing up as a woman constitutes “sexualization” per se.

                      So what is the "sexualization" part about Drag Queen Story Hour? It's not the man dressing up as a woman. What is it?

        2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          How many times has DeSantis or any of the right-wing culture warriors proposed banning kids from Hooters?

          How many times has DeSantis or any of the right-wing culture warriors proposed banning child beauty pageants?

          Zero and zero.

          But they will go on and on about drag queens reading books to kids.

          1. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

            Why do they have to read books to kids in drag. If they want to read to kids, why can't they just do it without the drag?

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago (edited)

              Why do scantily clad waitresses have to serve food to kids? If they want to serve food to kids, why can't they wear decent clothes?

              1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago (edited)

                When did shorts and a t-shirt become “scantily clad”, IncelJeffy?

                Now, why do men in drag feel the need to read to kids, and we’re not talking Mrs. Doubtfire, dip?

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  When did shorts and a t-shirt become “scantily clad”

                  So dishonest.

                  https://www.hooters.com/hooters-girls/

                  1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

                    I’ve seen less clothing on a beach boardwalk, dork.

                  2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

                    That's certainly more clothing than is typically worn at the Folsom Street Fair.

              2. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                Hooters is groomery and should shut its door to minors. Now why must they be in drag to read to kids?

                1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                  Should the state classify Hooters as "adult entertainment" and ban them from serving kids?

                  And if you think Hooters is "groomery" on par with a drag show, why do you think Team Red politicians like DeSantis have not said one word about Hooters or other similar restaurants which are "grooming kids"? I'm willing to bet far more kids go to Hooters than have ever attended a drag show. Doesn't he want to protect kids?

                  1. Spiritus Mundi   2 years ago

                    I simply conceded the point so we could move on. Why do they have to be in drag to read to kids? Why wont you answer that question?

                    1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

                      I have been asking him all week why the libraries insist on calling it "Drag Queen Story Hour" instead of just calling it "Story Hour" unless the whole point is the Drag Queen and not the story. He keeps going back to Hooters. The guy is obsessed with Hooters.

                    2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

                      They don't *have* to be in drag to read books, just like waitresses don't *have* to wear skimpy outfits to serve food. But the great thing about liberty is that people don't have to justify the exercise of their liberty to you or to anyone else if they don't want to. So Hooters has the liberty to open a restaurant where they hire women to wear skimpy outfits to serve food. And drag queens have the liberty to organize an event to read books to kids while wearing their costumes. So the answer to the question "why do they have to wear drag???" is the same as the answer to the question of why anyone chooses to exercise any of their liberty. Because they choose to.

  32. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

    Facebook is getting the Backpage treatment.

    Facebook was able to take down covid information the feds said we're bad in real time, but say they can't take down child porn.

    Backpage is compleatly different, they worked with the FBI to catch child traffickers and child pornographers, but they donated to kamalas political opponent, which is why kamala went after them. Reason literally reported on this.

    1. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

      Look, you expect an editor like ENB to know what that skank writer ENB wrote about backpage incessantly? That's just far too much for one of proggy to handle.

  33. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

    And tech companies could face a lot of time and expense defending themselves against frivolous lawsuits—unless, of course, they decide to reject speech related to any controversial issue.

    Feature, not bug.

  34. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/thekevindalton/status/1679113964729565185

    Nothing to see here, but MSNBC stooges chastising the Biden administration for not doing a better job of covering up the President’s stumbling, bumbling, and clear symptoms of dementia.

    1. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

      https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1679097933222772736

      MSNBC’s @morningmika to Biden’s staff: “Do a better job b/c you can’t have these video images of the president tripping or the president like going to wrong way … b/c his age is going to be factor … It makes me mad.”

      1. A Cynical Asshole   2 years ago

        “Do a better job b/c you can’t have these video images of the president tripping or the president like going to wrong way … b/c his age is going to be factor … It makes me mad.”

        IOW, "Hide him in his basement like you did last time." What a retard.

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      I'm pretty sure the literally was a startrek episode

  35. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

    In the news from a non-right-wing source:

    Iowa Republicans advance 6-week abortion ban in special session

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/12/politics/iowa-six-week-abortion-ban/index.html

    So, six weeks is about, or even before, when many women even discover they are pregnant to begin with. So it's basically a ban on all abortions.

    But this part was rather curious to me:

    The bill includes exceptions for miscarriages, when the life of the pregnant woman is threatened and fetal abnormalities that would result in the infant’s death.

    Here is the problem though. A lot of the "fetal abnormalities" can't be PROVEN to result in the infant's death with 100% certainty. It is only a statistical probability. Furthermore, the infant's death that *might* result can take weeks to occur. Also, and we've talked about it before, whenever you put one of these exceptions into law, a doctor trying to decide if a particular case falls into one of these exceptions is very likely going to be risk-averse when it comes to his *own* career and liberty. He/she is most likely going to err on the side of saving his/her own career, so these "exceptions" are meaningless for most if not all of these situations.

    Also, this was weird:

    It also includes exceptions for pregnancies resulting from rapes reported within 45 days and incest reported within 140 days.

    So, 140 days = 20 weeks. So it is okay to abort a 20-week-old fetus if it is the result of incest?

    1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      Which your complaint adds up to they are being too extremist and too moderate at the same time.

      Which is understandable. The pro-abortion argument is logically incoherent in the first place.

      1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

        *IF* the goal of this law is to protect life, why do they grant an explicit exception to abort a fetus at 20 weeks if it is the result of incest?

        *IF* the goal of this law is to protect life, why do they insist on putting roadblocks in front of doctors when they are the ones tasked with the difficult job of having to save the mother's life or the fetus's life in cases of extreme distress?

        Hint: the goal of the law is not to protect life. It is to control people.

        1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

          Just as the laws against murder have exceptions for self-defense. By your logic, that means that such laws are only to "control people", whatever that phrase means to you.

        2. Cyto   2 years ago

          Yeah, the "it is all about control" argument is a dead loser.

          Feminists have made hay from the "they hate women" angle on this forever, despite a large and passionate female contingent on the other side.

          Almost all anti-abortion activists are in the "killing babies is bad" camp. (A position that almost nobody disagrees with)

          So the only actual disagreement is over "what counts as a baby".

          Most people have conflicted views on this question when confronted with hard realities of edge cases. But not "abortion is murder" ideologues. They have a clarity. If you focus on the nascent life form as you perform your analysis, these questions become far less murky.

          But arguing semantics will never work. Either you convince them that life begins at some later point, or they will continue to arrive at the same conclusion.

      2. Illocust   2 years ago

        Better to save some lives than none. Abortion law is a practicality thing. A child related to a rapist doesn't deserve to die, but it's an emotional subject for obvious reasons.

        If the choice is to let twenty kids die and let the child of the rapist die, or save twenty kids and let the child of the rapist die. Then the second option is superior when dealing with preventing murder. Maybe you'll never save that last kid, but you saved a lot of people from being actively killed by other people and that's good.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          But there is no reason to make that type of Hobbesian choice in this case.

          Again: *IF* the goal is to protect life, then ban abortion for even the child of incest.

          Isn't it also weird, don't you think, that in most of these strict abortion laws, the harshest penalties go to the doctors performing the abortions, but there are few if any penalties for the woman choosing the abortion? Why is that do you think?

          Hint: it's because the real goal here isn't to protect life, it is to control people.

          1. Illocust   2 years ago

            If the goal is to save lives rather than punish perpetrators, then you do exactly what this law does. You minimize sympathetic situations or situations that are not clear cut, in order to maximize support, thus minimizing the chance of overturning or blackmarkets, which maximizes the number of murders prevented and thus lives saved.

            It's frustrating for people who advocate for abortion up to the moment of birth because most people are on the side of caution when the results can be a dead child. If you give the average person a clear cut case of a 5 month pregnant women with a healthy pregnancy and a child that resulted from completely consensual sex. The average person will feel that the mild inconvenience of finishing the pregnancy is outweighed by the risk that abortion is potentially killing a human baby. Adding in rape or incest, changes the weight for some people to be higher than the risk.

            We don't have a good answer as a society on when someone becomes a baby. We know it's not the birth canal because pre-mature babies are at the same developmental stage as their unbirthed peers and they are obviously babies to anyone who isn't an extremist. We are also fairly certain it's not the moment egg meets sperm (because contrary to memes technically correct is not the best kind of correct). Viability is out because that standard is a moving target as medical science advances, and most people understand emotionally and logically that if someone at a certain level of development is a human baby or not is based on traits inherent to the baby not on what life saving technology we've developed.

            This uncertainty means that all we can do when writing abortion law is set things up so we can minimize the chance we are killing a human baby while minimizing the harm caused by the law at the same time. When we know for certain that you are killing a human baby we make it illegal (getting an abortion at 9 months is murder even if the child is related to a rapist), when the odds are stacked extremely high that it's not a human baby we make it legal (pretty much everyone agrees in the first week the embryo is only technically human). Everything in between we weigh risk and harm to make the best call legally to prevent murders.

            1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

              This uncertainty means that all we can do when writing abortion law is set things up so we can minimize the chance we are killing a human baby while minimizing the harm caused by the law at the same time.

              And I think a great many people would agree with this statement. I do. The problem is how does one add up the harm caused by laws outlawing abortion. The harm associated with the denial of liberty is very high.

              1. Illocust   2 years ago

                And cest the risk is a much greater infringement on human liberty, in fact the greatest infringement possible in that it destroys it entirely by killing an innocent person. We are still weighing harm vs risk of committing murder as a society. There is no way of getting around that in a situation were we can't have all the most relevant fact (are we killing an innocent person), we got to actually weigh the reality and can't skip out on making a probably wrong call by calling on a higher ideal.

                As the five month healthy pregnancy example I gave earlier puts it. The average person considers the risk that your killing someone to be too high at that point vs the relatively minor harm of having to wrap up the last four months of the pregnancy and adopting the kid out (or keeping it, parents choice).

          2. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

            Hint: it’s because the real goal here isn’t to protect life, it is to control people.

            Now do guns.

        2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          See, I can actually appreciate Pence's position on the issue. I don't agree with it, but I can at least understand how it is consistent.

          https://apnews.com/article/mike-pence-abortion-views-2024-election-e5b236c27bc9c86f77efedbeedb26520

          He wants a national ban on abortion and he wants a ban on abortion even when the fetus is very likely not going to survive the pregnancy. I think a guy like Pence is actually more principled on the matter.

          Most of Team Red on the other hand is not. Instead, abortion laws are a vehicle to control people and to use the power of the state to dictate to people how they should regulate their own bodies when it comes to sex.

          1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

            Most of Team Red on the other hand is not. Instead, abortion laws are a vehicle to control people and to use the power of the state to dictate to people how they should regulate their own bodies when it comes to sex.

            Keep spreading that lie, you lying piece of shit liar. I don't think that abortion should be illegal, but at least I know that it really is about protecting human lives for the vast majority of people against it. If you can't acknowledge the undeniable aspect of eugenics within the abortion issue, then you are a lost cause.

    2. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

      You do realize that abortion on demand all the way up until the infant's feet leave the magic birth canal is a minority position, too, right?

    3. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      So, six weeks is about, or even before, when many women even discover they are pregnant to begin with.

      I do not believe this.

      If she were rawdogging it a month ago and not wondering why her period didnt come yet ,... yeah, she's wondering. 19.99 test at the pharmacy and now you know.

      1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

        Women can miss periods for all kinds of reasons unrelated to pregnancy. But, unlike 50 years ago, sexually active women can easily take a pregnancy test within days if they do.

        Does that place the bulk of the short-term consequences of sex onto the woman? Yes. Being a woman is not the same as being a man. It is about time modern people wake up to this fact that has been understood since antiquity and only recently abandoned.

    4. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

      So it is okay to abort a 20-week-old fetus if it is the result of incest?

      Your stupidity is nearly overwhelming. Incest resulting in pregnancy is going to almost exclusively involve the abuse of a young girl. Her abuser is going to lie and tell her she can't get pregnant while convincing her to actively hide the illegal sexual activity. He is definitely going to try to prevent her from seeing a doctor who might detect the sexual activity. There is no reason for anyone to guess a girl in such a situation is pregnant until she starts to show. 20 weeks might not be long enough.

      I would gladly support an abortion at 2000 weeks if it was your mother requesting it.

  36. SRG   2 years ago

    Re: Against old left-wing ideas rebranded as new right-wing ideas

    American Compass are clearly of the anti-capitalist right:
    https://americancompass.org/conservative-economics/

    Basically, they're anti-globalisation and anti-"financialization" (sic), etc. and it is hard to see how they can accomplish their goals, notwithstanding their claims generally to support the free market, without major government interference in the market.

    [Conservative economics] rejects the market fundamentalism of libertarians who see capitalism as nothing more than economic “freedom”

    I am not an axiomatic libertarian, preferring to examine real world outcomes, rather than stick to principles that might not actually work, but American Compass is way beyond that point - and as the NR article shows, they don't pay much attention to real-world outcomes either.

    1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

      "Globalism" is what stupid people call free-trade and NNP treaties.

      1. Sevo   2 years ago

        turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
        If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
        turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit

      2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

        The term "globalism" is like the term "indoctrination". It is just a slur applied to an ordinary practice when it produces results that they don't like.

        When free people trade across international borders to create wealth for both parties, that's called "capitalism" and should be celebrated.

        But, when one of those people is from COMMUNIST CHINA, then that is "globalism" and should be punished.

        1. R Mac   2 years ago

          Here’s Lying Jeffy pretending he hasn’t been told repeatedly the difference between free trade and globalism.

          Hey Lying Jeffy, is the WEF primarily advocating free trade?

    2. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

      Your not a libritarian.. Ftfy

      1. SRG   2 years ago (edited)

        If you’re going to fix something, don’t you think you should have fixed it?

        What’s a libritarian? A British librarian?

    3. sarcasmic   2 years ago

      The right has most definitely abandoned any support for economic liberty. And they already oppose personal liberty. That makes them even worse than the left, which still pretends to support personal liberty.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

        Yes. Let’s all ignore covid, censorship and political prosecutions. You truly are retarded.

        Sorry not everyone defends pedophiles and cutting children's dicks off like you and Jeff.

        1. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

          Sarc's view of liberty must be limited to abortion everywhere, trans-women in sports and sex changes for kids. Many of the things the left is really bad on, free speech, personal defense, progressive taxation, and CRT/grooming in public schools, are far more grievous infringements.

          1. JesseAz   2 years ago

            His argument requires intentional ignorance of reality. Then again he was on the same side as the democrats on those topics the last few years so he has to claim the stances as libertarian. He refuses to ever admit he was wrong.

      2. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

        friendly reminder that economic liberty IS personal liberty.

        1. SRG   2 years ago

          Yes indeed. Hence not being able to pay an abortion clinic to perform an abortion is an infringement on economic liberty.

          1. R Mac   2 years ago

            This is why it’s impossible to have an honest discussion about abortion with you leftist ghouls. You won’t even acknowledge their is a third person involved who’s right to life is being violated.

    4. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      rather than stick to principles that might not actually work,

      You do have principle they just arent libertarian.

      1. SRG   2 years ago

        I have almost no principles, because I think that the real world generally confounds them. I have heuristics. For example, in the absence of further information, I will assume that private enterprise is better (cheaper, faster and higher quality) than government trying to do the same thing. I will assume that on a question about free speech, in the absence of further information, freer is better. I will assume that when it comes to government prohibitions, in the absence of further information, fewer is better, etc.

        But unlike axiomatic libertarians, I do not reject further information if it would result in a change to my initial assumptions.

        And you may note that I generally come down on the side of free markets and capitalism - particularly when supported by evidence, as in the NR article (or rather, the article that NR cites).

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          The first 5 words were all that were needed. Bookmarked.

  37. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

    So let's review: When DeSantis grants media interviews, it is to friendly right-wing sources about 99% of the time.

    And so the culprit for DeSantis' poor poll numbers? THE MEDIA

    https://thehill.com/media/4090711-anderson-cooper-needles-desantis-for-blaming-bad-poll-numbers-on-media/

    1. Dillinger   2 years ago

      >>friendly right-wing sources

      qui?

    2. R Mac   2 years ago

      So the media doesn’t report on Desantis despite the lack of interviews he gives them, or that reporting doesn’t effect polling?

      What effect do you imagine, in a vacuum, the coverage of Desantis by Reason would have on his pole numbers?

      This is even retarded for you.

  38. Jerry B.   2 years ago

    "Court Greenlights Microsoft Acquisition of Video Game Powerhouse Activision Blizzard"

    Expect this to show up as the Washington Post's "Existential Threat of the Day".

  39. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

    Bad timing: Trump about to be indicted in Georgia.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/politics/fulton-county-grand-jury-selection/index.html

    1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Do they have another crazy witch lady leading this grand jury?

      1. Michael Ejercito   2 years ago

        Likely.

        Amazing that they have to rely on novel legal theories.

        1. Moderation4ever   2 years ago

          What novel theory? We have a candidate on tape asking Georgia officials to find votes that don't exist. Seem a pretty straight case of solicitation of election fraud.

          1. Dillinger   2 years ago

            >>candidate on tape asking Georgia officials to find votes that don’t exist

            ambiguous at best.

            1. Moderation4ever   2 years ago

              Trump's lawyers can make the case for this, but it is the jury that will decide.

            2. JesseAz   2 years ago

              It isnt ambiguous but completely wrong. He is directly talking about identified illegal votes. It is the first half of the call.

              1. Dillinger   2 years ago

                even better.

              2. Ersatz   2 years ago

                at this stage you could be excused for thinking that trump has ample grounds for claiming malicious prosecution

              3. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

                Yeah, but that half of the call disappeared right along with the Epstein Prison Cell video.

              4. Moderation4ever   2 years ago

                Yes, we have the former President throwing out conspiracy theories and Sec. Raffensperger explaining, like you do to a small child, that Trump is wrong, the election results are good, and he lost. The former President brought up Dominion machines and Raffensperger had to explain that the state did a hand recount. There is no novel theory here Trump was working the refs and it did not work. Coach works the refs and he gets thrown out of the game. Trump get indicted.

                1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                  Again completely wrong. Raffensperger admitted the readings of the law likely were correct but they wouldn't pursue. The laws exist but not enforced. You continue to lie about a call that you can literally read the transcript for. Just like he refused to investigate the double voters.

          2. JesseAz   2 years ago

            The transcript is public. You are free to read it. He did not ask to create or manufacture votes. His team identified roughly 150k illegal votes based on state law and the find votes were in regards to illegal votes. Again, the transcript is public.

            1. Moderation4ever   2 years ago

              His team identified nothing. His campaign data staff and his family told him he lost, the former President just would not listen.

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                No. His team did. The published calls are again available. You just don't care about reality. They identified the laws that were relevant and the voters in violation. Most having to do with voting in the wrong district or double voting.

                I know you believe whatever you want and have no care for the truth. That's on you. But everything you've said is literally wrong.

      2. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

        those crazyeyes giggles of hers still haunt me

  40. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

    Nardz, is that you?

    https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senator-tuberville-chided-senate-floor-white-nationalism-remarks-2023-07-11/

    "If Democrats want to say that white nationalists are racist, I'm totally against that too."

  41. Sevo   2 years ago

    "U.S. plans to rejoin UNESCO in July, UN agency says"
    [...]
    "The U.S. last week privately notified the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) that it has decided to rejoin the agency nearly six years after the Trump administration announced it was withdrawing U.S. membership, a State Department spokesperson told Axios..."
    https://www.axios.com/2023/06/11/us-rejoin-unesco-letter-israel-biden-palestine-trump

    Several more feather-bedded "officials" attending "important" meetings in luxurious surroundings courtesy of you and me, brought to us by TDS-addled shits.

  42. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

    "judges haven't been terribly sympathetic to the Biden administration and FTC Chair Lina Khan's aggressive application of antitrust laws" Now if we could just get judges to stop being terribly sympathetic to the government on something really important! I guess we should be grateful for small favors, but I'm much more worried about the Bill of Rights being increasingly trampled by the jack-booted thugs.

  43. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    Scientists, Under Fire From Republicans, Defend Fauci and Covid Origins Study
    Two virologists testified that they remained convinced that the coronavirus was natural in origin and said Dr. Anthony S. Fauci did not exert influence over a study they wrote.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/11/us/politics/covid-lab-leak-fauci.html

    COVID originated naturally as it turns out.

    Wingnuts weep. They wanted Fatass to be right about something.

    1. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      We will probably never know with absolute certainty how the virus originated. Instead we'll be left in this post-modernist state where the reality of the virus depends on what your media bubble tells you.

      1. Moderation4ever   2 years ago

        I think your assumption here is correct. The value in knowing the point of origin is that people can change the way of doing things to prevent another outbreak. I think that opportunity has been lost and what is left is to focus the initial spread and how to prevent or minimize that in the future.

    2. Sevo   2 years ago

      turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, a TDS-addled asshole and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

    3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

      Are you going full retard? Because you should never go full retard.

      1. Rev Arthur L kuckland   2 years ago

        Better to go full retard than his default posting of child porn

      2. JesseAz   2 years ago

        The race between him and sarc has been exciting.

      3. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        Pluggo went full retard the moment he declared Adam Schiff as the most honest politician ever. It was at that point Pluggo jumped the shark.

    4. Jerry B.   2 years ago

      "COVID originated naturally as it turns out."

      And it was just coincidental that patient zero was a scientist in the lab where they were studying it.

      1. Sevo   2 years ago

        Hey, he just happened to shop at that market down the street; totally coincidental according to lying piles of lefty shit like turd.

    5. Red Rocks White Privilege   2 years ago

      said Dr. Anthony S. Fauci did not exert influence over a study they wrote.

      LOL, they didn't have to, because Dasak was doing it for him. That's the whole point of a front group like EcoHealth Alliance, to give the lead guy plausible deniability.

    6. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Did you see their own presented slack messages arguing the opposite of their testimony over worries of making China mad? Lol. It was presented at the hearings.

    7. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      LOL

    8. MWAocdoc   2 years ago

      Bwahaha! You're citing the New York Times for proof that COVID-19 had a "natural" origin? That's just precious! Just keep on trying to dismiss a growing pile of evidence that says that COVID-19 was at least partially the result of gene-splicing by experts with resources only available in hi-tech virology labs near where the first cases were undeniably identified if it makes you feel smug, but be aware that anyone rational is no longer buying your narrative.

  44. Dillinger   2 years ago

    >> "broadly restricts Internet companies from using designs, algorithms, and features that could cause online 'addiction' for kids,"

    are there lawyers in the California Senate or are they all Kamalas?

    1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

      the collective IQ of the california senate is WAY too low to pass the bar

      1. Dillinger   2 years ago (edited)

        maybe they’re supersmrt & write nonsense they know will end up in court on purpose?

  45. Dillinger   2 years ago

    >>Iowa's House has passed a bill
    >>The bill ... was passed "quickly ...

    just passed. House passed a bill. The bill passed quickly.

    1. R Mac   2 years ago

      I’m picturing all the votes in fast-motion, sounding like chipmunks.

      1. Dillinger   2 years ago

        lol exactly. I lived in Iowa twice I'm shocked anything happened quickly

  46. Dillinger   2 years ago

    >> "The country's fiscal situation has changed dramatically, if quietly, in the past few years," writes Annie Lowrey.

    Annie Lowrey needs an ear appointment.

  47. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

    The New York Times' Jane Coaston talks to Utah Gov. Spencer Cox, a Republican, about the state's new law banning teens from social media unless they get parental consent.

    Piece of shit lawyers for tech firms want to pretend that minors can consent to contracts on their own despite the courts long held standing that they cannot. There should be authentication taking place to establish the age of a user before allowing transactions or subscriptions, but there is far too big a pot of money to be made marketing digital crap to kids and leaving their parents holding the bag to make any efforts to that end.

    If services wouldn't engage in unconscionable contracts with minors, public policy wouldn't be necessary.

  48. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

    "Operation Underground Railroad has spent years making big, often unprovable claims about its paramilitary missions and role in rescuing trafficked kids," notes Vice. "Now, a new hit movie may help solidify the myth."

    It's amazing to watch all the legacy media folks lining up to defend pedos.

    1. Dillinger   2 years ago

      know your master.

  49. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

    A warning about U.S. debt from an unlikely place: The Atlantic. "The country's fiscal situation has changed dramatically, if quietly, in the past few years," writes Annie Lowrey.

    When you've lost the regime apparatchiks at The Atlantic, you know things are getting bad.

  50. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

    Iowa's House has passed a bill that would ban abortion a few weeks into pregnancy. "Senate File 579 prohibits physicians from providing most abortions after early cardiac activity can be detected in a fetus or embryo, commonly as early as six weeks into pregnancy,"

    The people of Iowa have spoken.

  51. Cyto   2 years ago

    There is a new Willie Wonka movie coming out.

    From the trailer, it appears to be "how a little black girl inspired and tutored Willie Wonka into opening a chocolate factory and becoming an icon."

    Features callbacks to Gene Wilder version, despite being a prequel.... including a reading of the line "quiet up and listen down... no wait, reverse that..." that seems only designed to not match Wilder's reading, and thus, falls flat.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      Is the protagonist a lesbian and sporting a side-shave?

    2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      "How does it feel to live long enough to see all your favorite franchises go down in flames?"

      1. Dogvalor   2 years ago

        Don't ask questions. Just consume product then get excited for next product.

  52. JFree   2 years ago

    thwarted Department of Justice attempts to stop U.S. Sugar's acquisition of Imperial Sugar

    The DoJ said 'no comment' in response to US Sugar's attempted acquisition of Honduras.

    1. Sevo   2 years ago

      JFree thought he made a funny.
      PIss off, asshole.

  53. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    Corley's decision dashes the FTC's hopes of blocking Microsoft, which makes the gaming console Xbox, from buying Activision Blizzard, which makes the hit video game Call of Duty.

    Adolf Hitler, painter of landscapes...

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      ???

  54. Chuck P. (The Artist formerly known as CTSP)   2 years ago

    I realize that arguments with chemjeff are tedious, but they sometimes inspire me to more complete thoughts and I want to repost this one down here for those avoiding the shiposts.

    I have been to drag shows. They are transvestite burlesque. Burlesque involves flashing and a sexually provocative performance. It is not appropriate for kids. How can you explain it to a kid without discussing the sexual identity of the performer and introducing the concept of fetishistic behavior. Kids ask “Why?” A lot.

    And if you remove the flashing and sexually provocative dancing, it isn’t a drag show, just a guy in a dress singing. Nobody is going to that show. Neither is that what is being prohibited.

  55. Honest Economics   2 years ago

    For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/

  56. yiginim   2 years ago

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  57. Olman Grand   2 years ago (edited)

    There are so many different online and video games out there right now and I keep hearing about new releases all the time. But I moved away from this industry a bit, and now I’m more into gaming. I recommend everyone to visit site to learn more about the best online casinos in Australia and choose a proven gambling platform. For me, this is both a pleasant pastime and a way to earn money online

  58. MilikusFlorium   2 years ago

    Do you still play video games? I think I can envy you, because I haven't had time for them for a long time, nor at least one reason why I can spend my free time in this way. Making money is my number one priority right now. Of course, I play games in my spare time, but these are other games, namely gambling in online casinos. Such a pastime doesn't seem to me something useless and brings a good income from time to time.

  59. KowerKarpet   2 years ago

    I just hope that it won't affect the games. Right now, I have the best experience with Diablo 4, I don't want it to be ruined.

  60. Andronniss   2 years ago (edited)

    I don’t think that Blizzard will actually suffer from that in any way, so I hope that the quality of games and the gameplay will remain the same. I’m really into diablo 4 as well, and with diablo 4 gold from wowvendor, I got way further in the game than I ever thought I would, so right now, I wouldn’t want any difficulties and restrictions that may come after such a deal.

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