Buy Your Own Damn E-Bike
The popularity of e-bike subsidies doesn't mean these programs are creating more e-bike riders.

If you offer people free money and they take it, is that evidence of a policy's success? For some electric bicycle advocates, the answer is yes.
As e-bikes sales have grown rapidly in recent years, so too have programs at the state and local level to subsidize their purchase. Prices range from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars, as do the subsidies on offer.
Writing in CityLab, David Zipper reports on a number of local and state programs that provide tax rebates and vouchers worth anywhere from $400 to $2,000 to purchasers of new e-bikes. Earlier this year, lawmakers in D.C. re-introduced legislation to create a $1,500 federal e-bike tax credit as well.
Supporters argue these subsidies are justified by e-bikes' potential to take gas-powered cars off the road, thereby cutting emissions, benefiting the environment, and improving road safety.
Many of these state and local subsidy programs are quickly oversubscribed, with the number of applicants vastly outstripping the number of vouchers. For Zipper, that's evidence that these policies are driving adoption and should be expanded.
"Limits on the availability of e-bike incentives is throttling their enormous upside," he says. "The growing army of e-bike-enthused advocates and public officials should ask themselves: What incentive structure can attract the largest number of new riders? One lesson is becoming clear: Get vouchers into as many hands as possible."
I'm not sure that lesson is so clear.
For starters, it's not obvious that voucher programs are driving e-bike purchases. There's good reason to think they're subsidizing purchases that would have happened anyway.
Zipper notes that in Denver, when the city cut the value of e-bike vouchers in order to expand the number of vouchers it could offer, "demand seemed unaffected; the city still exhausted its January batch of vouchers within 20 minutes."
In other words, demand wasn't very sensitive to the value of the subsidy. If cutting it isn't cooling purchases, perhaps zeroing out the voucher entirely would have a similarly muted effect.
A lot of these local and state subsidies aren't means-tested. Many vouchers and rebates are surely ending up in the hands of people who would easily afford an e-bike on their own. In those circumstances, there's a good chance the subsidy is merely going toward purchasing a nicer, more expensive model.
That's good for the recipient but doesn't provide any benefit to the wider taxpaying public that's picking up the tab.
One would expect there to be some marginal consumers who otherwise wouldn't have purchased an e-bike without a voucher. But there's a reason these consumers are "marginal": They place a lower value on owning an e-bike in the first place. They're likely to use it less often, undercutting whatever emissions reductions the e-bike is supposed to provide.
The social justification for e-bike subsidies is that these vehicles are replacements for cars, or at least for some car trips. But if e-bikes are in fact a real substitute for traditional gas-powered cars, then there's no need to subsidize them because they're already much cheaper than the competition.
Even an older car is going to cost you more than a spanking new e-bike. They can already compete on price.
That should be a huge selling point for e-bike boosters: Here's a product that provides a range and speed comparable to a car's when taking trips around the neighborhood or within an urban area, it's better for the environment, and the industry doesn't require subsidies.
Users of all forms of transportation, from cars to mass transit to air travel and Amtrak, have long received some level of subsidy from the taxpayer. Both road and public transit spending has become more heavily subsidized in recent years as well.
This is a bad development, for reasons of both efficiency and fairness. It's also not how things have to be. The U.S. has a robust history of privately run and financed infrastructure.
E-bikes have the potential to add to that proud legacy. Instead, their biggest proponents want to make them another part of the subsidized transportation blob.
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We used to call similar things, "mopeds" and "motor-driven cycles" at one time (to be differentiated from motorcycles). They're really not much different, and they should be treated under the same rules. They're also not viable nor allowed for freeway use.
Not very good when it’s cold, hot or rainy either.
Wrong attitude. I typically stop riding when snowplows are present. I also skip when it's raining in the morning but just last Friday rode the 5 miles home in a drizzle.
But I am a special case and I do not expect or demand others to do as I do. I also own 3 IC vehicles which my wife and daughter use frequently.
“Wrong attitude “
Some of us have enough sense to stay out of inclement weather.
Unfortunately, I cannot make that claim.
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As a retired bike commuter, I agree that you cannot let rain stop a ride.
Then the government needs to provide vouchers for rain gear, or at least waterproof panniers to carry dry clothes in.
That's an important point that is frequently overlooked in these pieces. If alternative modes of transportation are unavailable or unsafe at unpredictable times, what are you going to do when you can't bike? If the answer is "drive my car instead" then you have already invested in an automobile AND an e-bike. You have already paid upfront for the car and the insurance which is then sitting on the street or in a garage unused. Most people don't take into account the manufacturing environmental impact but it is significant.
You have to factor in the operational cost. A $40,000 vehicle which lasts 400,000 miles costs 10 cents a mile plus interest for the most basic floor. Insurance is only poorly related to use. Fuel varies.
Bicycles have surprisingly high operational costs; their tires don't last nearly as long. But if it's less than a car, you do save some on operational costs, possibly a little on insurance.
>Bicycles have surprisingly high operational costs
By what measure? I was a very active cyclist for nearly a decade. I'd pay maybe $40-60 for a tune up each year and perhaps $70 for new tires every other year. Occasionally I'd have to replace the grip tape ($15) and brake cables / pads ($50). Bikes have extremely low operational cost and don't require insurance.
If you're referring to e-bikes or even motorcycles, those costs will certainly be a bit higher, but absolutely not close to the cost of a car.
Bike tires are far more expensive per mile than car tires. At least that was my experience a few years ago with an 11 mile commute, and not from flats.
I find myself spending quite a bit on bikes. Not quite the savings you would think
Less than 10 cents per mile. Even the oldest piece of shit car still has salvage value. When I delivered pizzas in college, I always bought some cheap beater that was reliable instead of using my good car. I could usually get at least as much as I spent on the purchase when I eventually sold them.
....Or into a stiff wind, or going up steps, or carrying cargo, or in a rough neighborhood, or long distances, or hanging out at a biker bar.
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Back in my day bikes had pedals.
Basically these are electric mopeds. They are not alternatives to gasoline powered cars. They are more carbon heavy than a regular bicycle (because the batteries and electricity have to come from somewhere).
Cities and towns with enough surplus funds to subsidize mopeds need to build parks instead. Or cut their taxes.
E-bikes do have pedals, the electric motor provides assistance to the pedaling, but doesn't replace the need to pedal (except on a few very fancy/expensive models, but that's not what most people are buying)
Initially, e-assistance was the most common option but I see more and more riders just resting their legs on the pedals and letting the motor do ALL of the work. The pedals are still there, but they aren't getting used.
There are actually a few classes. They limit speed and force pedaling to make it go on the lowest class, which is what people too young for a driver's license are allowed to ride around here.
Class 2 doesn't require pedal assist, but is also slower than class 3.
Class 3 you have to be over 16 to ride, it goes 30 mph.
One thing I notice here, which is southern ca coastal, is that we get a hell of a lot more kids on ebikes. Ones that are too young to drive anyway. And tourists rent them. So lots more assholes running stop signs and blocking the traffic lanes, but no less traffic.
They're still useful for locals who want to head to the beach and not have to fight inlanders for parking spaces, but that's here. I've lived in towns where they'd be damned near useless as well.
As usual, California overthinks, and over regulates something.
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Mopeds were gas-powered, and (at least in NJ in the 80s) require a license.
There’s another problem. Up until recently in most, if not all states, putting an engine or motor on a bicycle would easily bump it into the moped/motorcycle class where it required tags and the appropriate rating on the driver’s license, no kids allowed. IIRC it was an engine over 49 cc or an electric motor over 250 watts. Of course that’s daft since a 45 cc chainsaw can easily produce 2,000 watts (2.7 hp).
Some states are still like that and others have adopted a mishmash of varying rules & thresholds where it goes from being a bike to a motorcycle. Some have 3 classes of e-bike others have one, some use top speed, some wattage, some a combination of watts and speed limiters. Some states have age limits, some helmet requirements depending on watts, speed, age, and/or class.
It’s an absolute mess of regulations and I’d guess the e-bike pusher man isn’t about to push you toward anything but a more expensive bike even if it meant it became a motorcycle.
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Washington State treats them as bicycles so long as the motor doesn’t generate more than 1 hp.
In my area of NC, they call them "Liquor-Cycles," with the "Cycles" pronounced as "Sicles."
🙂
The reason for the reference to libation is, of course, those who are wont to ride these contraptions are likely doing so because they lost their driver's licenses to too many DUI violations. Also, the riders, well, tend to look the parts of drunken sots.
Isn't etymology fun?
😉
I met a guy who was in that situation a few years ago. He spent around $2k for a decent e-bike. He occasionally splurged on rideshare when the weather wasn’t conducive for bicycle rides.
No.
I have nowhere to plug it in.
Then build a wind farm!
Install solar panels on it.
Have you considered the Ronco Pocket Coal Powerplant?
It's right there next to The Pocket Fisherman and the Krazy Glue.
🙂
You're bringing back some fond memories, Chumby.
And the Kitchen Magician
Ron Popeo made millions...then lost it.
Try requiring the surrender of a drivers license to get the subsidy and you will see how many of these are actually replacing an automobile.
These damn things are toys, nothing more.
This
Partially disagree. Just like smart cars, they make a lot of sense for zipping around densely populated urban areas. They make near zero sense in any other setting. They’re not toys but they are highly niche oriented market items. Also see central city automobile bans like London.
American version of rickshaws?
London also banned dentists.
That’s the tooth, the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth.
They’re not toys. But certainly not a replacement for a car or truck.
They are legally a moped in the state of Iowa if they have a throttle. Those that are only encoder assist are not mopeds. These rules are typically not followed or enforced where I live. I am fine with this.
Several times on the way home from work while on the bike path, I have picked up a free ride from the draft of E-bikers to make my life easier. They match up well with my single speed.
6 years ago I happened to be riding a rented bike across the Golden Gate bridge and saw two guys ahead of me, making a good pace. I caught them with some effort and then realized they had E-bikes. Oh well, just passed them and kept going.
Also had some hipster in San Francisco get angry at me for drafting him. I mean unbelievably angry. Oh well, why should I expect different from a a liberal mecca.
Note: Set the controls on your E-bikes to the smallest possible wheel diameter. This fools the automatic governor on them to possibly allow much higher speeds. This worked on my wife's Bafang conversion. I can do 28 mph on the flats.
Also, please ignore your preconceived notions and test ride one. Even I, a hater from the opposite perspective, found them to be remarkably fun. You can't start off in one and not get a smile on you face.
It allows my wife to ride with me. She sets it at the lowest level it works for her. She can almost drop me on hills.
They’re fun, I have a decent road bike, but sometimes I would like to go places on a bike where I don’t arrive all sweaty. An e-bike is a good way to do that without all the hassles of a two wheeled vehicle that requires additional state licensing for both me and the vehicle. Plus I can mount it on a wall in my garage just like my regular bike.
In an alternate universe, bicycle riders pay for everyone’s cars and also pay for the roads that motorists drive on through user fees for using the bicycle lanes attached to the roadways.
I see quite a few poor-looking people using bulky e-bikes for transportation around town. My guess is they lost their licenses to DUI. On the flip side I see rich-looking people circling around the beach on the cute foldable e-bikes. Those look like fun.
The folding ones suck. Those people riding them either need to carry them on a bus or train, or they are stupid.
Like I said, rich people doing circles on the beach. I'm sure the bikes aren't used for any practical purpose.
See my entry above on "Liquor-Cycles."
Few thousand my ass. A good entry level mountain ebike.
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/turbo-levo-pro-carbon/p/216810?color=349646-216810
Why on earth would I not just buy a real motorcycle that could take any road at actual road speeds, for $12,000. Jesus fuck.
You make a good point.
These are allowed on a few more trails where hikers are allowed.
I suppose in that sense they'd be more dual use, but... I never go on those trails as either a biker or a pedestrian, and I spend a lot of time on tarmac.
What's wrong with an old Gary Fisher?
Nothing - if you are willing to earn your turns.
I suspect the subsidies are targeted at city dwellers buying something more like this
https://electra.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/electra-bikes/electra-e-bikes/cruiser-go-step-over/p/35206/
That is not "entry level"
$1500 is entry level. I built my wife's ebike for ~$1400. It has a 50+ mile range.
It might be an entry-level mountain e-bike.
I don't know what you do for a living, but twelve grand isn't entry-level on most budgets.
Not everyone stays at half million dollar Airbnbs either.
Just might be for anyone that thinks mountain e-bikes make any sense.
I see people tooling around on mountain-bike style e-bikes all the time, and I doubt the bikes cost even a grand. Most of them look like they lost their license. At least that’s my assumption when I see grown men with tattoos and jeans cruising down Main St. on a bicycle, electric or not.
Making assumptions like that about people you don’t know is akin to racism.
Stolen
From who?
Edit: Maybe you're right but I haven't been to a pawn shop in a while.
You can get decent e-bikes in mountain bike form for under $2k.
An example….
https://www.cyrusher.com/products/montta-ebike?currency=USD&variant=44210678530281&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gad=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw-7OlBhB8EiwAnoOEk-76Q4clXV1KkHv-5nlFU3_FktBGW5aCnHRzfAcvBuw7O1aiOfzENhoCm1QQAvD_BwE
A little bit of an exaggeration, because a decent mountain ebike can be found for half that. They are still ridiculously expensive.
I find a 700w battery unusable for anything. Similar to heading out on the enduro with only 1/2 liter of gas.
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Meh, just get a Segway, Ninebot, or whatever they’re called now. Then you can just ride it in the elevator and all the way to your desk. If they even sell them anymore.
Segway got nought out several times where I believe in one instance, the then current owner actually accidentally rode his Segway off a cliff. He no longer cones down for breakfast. The rider safety problems, big price, legal access to where they can be ridden and utility seemed to be sunsetting this product.
True but I think most recently they sued a Chinese company for patent violation and the easy answer was to let the Chinese company buy them out to make the lawsuit go away. Probably the best choice since I believe the patent has expired by now.
I remember when Art Bell and some Muckety-Muck from the company whom Art was interviewing was using the name "It" and "Ginger" to refer to the Segway, as some gimmick to create buzz and mystique about it. They were making out like it was the fucking Singularity of transportation.
My thought was: "If one of these 'Its' or 'Gingers' can't haul 50 tons of freight, or at least your life's possessions on a move, forget it!"
Years later, I seen a video of a police Segway chasing a participant in some civil disturbance in Wilmington or Fayetteville, and the man chased by the police threw a fireplce-sized log in front of the Segway and the officer fell forward.
Either a chassis-covered, armored Internal Combustion Engine or GTFO.
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"Zipper notes that in Denver, when the city cut the value of e-bike vouchers in order to expand the number of vouchers it could offer, 'demand seemed unaffected; the city still exhausted its January batch of vouchers within 20 minutes.'"
Which means that the city was still over-valuing the vouchers. Cut the subsidy in half again and perhaps again double the number of vouchers. Of course, we don't know if these people actually used the vouchers to buy a bicycle or just left them in a drawer somewhere.
For sound economic perspective go to https://honesteconomics.substack.com/
Unless you are powering your server with an e-bike battery, no!
Sure- as soon as you stop subsidizing every tom dick and harry who has a car.
US society has subsidized driving to an absurd amount for over half a century. Start curtailing that and then we’ll talk.
So to be clear- I agree that you shouldn't subsidize ebikes. But you also shouldn't at all subsidize cars either like we continually do.
Would that be a blanket no subsidies or just favorite causes could keep em?
Other than direct subsidies for E-Cars, I am unfamiliar with direct subsidies for cars similar to these E-Bikes.
When a lefty like rapberry/jeffy has bothered to cite their evidence of "absurd subsidies", they generally turn out to not be subsidies and instead be basic accounting- like capital depreciation. Or they do nonsense like claiming that the War in Iraq was a subsidy for cars.
But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Raspberry can point me to some actual evidence.
This is like subsidies for oil companies. They don’t really exist. When Shitlunches says ‘subsidies’ he means not applying punitive fees, taxes, etc, to cars and drivers.
Oh FFS, clearly you haven't the slightest clue how much revenue is raised through the gas tax, vehicle licensing fees, truck gvw fees etc.
Nice start, now do corn, sugar, SUVs, minivans, extra large pickup trucks, easily broken mirrorized flags that increase drag hanging off the side of vehicles, oh, and most important of all that whole silly retribution on small pickups over the EU chicken tax decades ago.
Yeah, subsidies are real and setting the benchmark on repealing one means repealing all is a great goal, even the great Quigley takes one shot at a time.
You still get your food from a truck. So shut your fucking pie hole.
I've been a cyclist for 62 years. The proliferation of bike lanes/trails has changed my life. But now I'm sharing them with overcaffienated, road-raging, Karen's who have no clue how to safely ride their huge, heavy, fast, cargo bikes. I put in decades worth of training to be cycling as far as I do at my age, they swiped a card and pressed a button.
I’ve been a taxpayer/driver for 53 years. The proliferation of bike lanes/trails has changed my life, too. (not for the better)
Now you can play GTA without even buying an Xbox.
So, you would prefer to share the road with bikes? The fact is that bike lanes are good for both cyclists and cars.
Quit playing with your toys in the street.
I’m a cyclist too, and you’re spit on. Turns out the same assholes who pay no attention to their surroundings and make stupid decisions when they drive aren’t any better at riding bikes or even functioning as pedestrians.
I like to keep up on current events, but this article isn't electrifying at all.
If the Post Office deployed E-bikes, would their letter carriers then be delivering E-mail? Mail routes would become mail circuits?
I see this descending into a viscous cycle.
The USPS would become the world’s largest distributor of junk e-mail. And rain, snow, sleet, hail, and dark of night would all harmonically converge to stay the couriers in the completion of their appointed rounds. And they are Union, so the “swift” part of the old saw has long been a foregone conclusion.
Well, since the junk e-mail would never arrive, I guess it’s not a total negative.
Oh, and the viscous part comes from when The Postman Always Rings Twice.
🙂
I would buy and use an E-bike if the government (other taxpayers) would subsidize the full price and give me free electricity for life. Deal?
Well, in my neck of the woods, E-Bikes are a plague born by pre-drivers. Here in California, anyone can own an E-Bike as long as it doesn't go over 20 mph- a setting that every 13 year old knows how to disable. When the local High School gets out, it looks like those wacky videos of Beijing or Ho Chi Minh City, with slender motor-bikes jetting off in a wave of 2-wheeled chaos, carrying multiple teens on each bike, band instruments, backpacks, science projects, and other nonsense. They are a complete, and utter menace and any parent who buys their kid one of these (and they are legion) should spend a few days secretly watching their scions use them to understand how many brush's with death these kids cause on an hourly basis.
One of my neighbors was thinking about getting her only kid one of these- he's a 7th grader going into 8th. She asked me for my advice, and I related the above and more- everything I have seen happening among my (older) children's friends and specific examples and names of kids I know who were injured riding one of these, or who were injured being hit by one. I ended with, "these bikes are a great way to kill your kid, or teach them the trauma of being the cause of someone else's injury or death." She bought it anyways. *shrug*
Get him one "after" you have a second child.
Spokane has more problems with morons using those Lime scooters than anything else. When they’re zipping around me downtown, sometimes it’s all I can do to not clothesline them as they pass by.
Did that article have David Zipper's byline, or his zipline?
Ebike subsidies are apparently the only type of action Americans can take when it comes to anything. Find the most corrupt way to spend money on cronyist schemes while ensuring nothing productive happens. Preferably fueled by debt so that it’s all free.
There’s only one way that biking will grow.
Imagine that kids and the elderly can travel from here to there without armor, nonhuman speeds, mental distress, high risk of death/injury, no place to park, etc.
Then make it happen.
They’ll figure out the how whether it’s bikes, scooters, tricycles, golf carts or unicycles.
They already have a solution. It is called the motor car or automobile. Kids and Elderly get shlepped around daily in these wondrous contraptions.
I always find it funny that your ilk always wants to reduce/eliminate transportation choices and mobility freedom. So that you can schlep other people around and get pissed off about the traffic.
And my guess is you probably live in the suburbs where those choices are gone and there can and will never be an alternative to the car. While you’re trying to impose that same stuff on cities you never even go to. Except to drive through. Which is why you want streets to focus on through traffic.
You use the term ‘mobility freedom’ like it’s a right. It’s not. The US constitution is not about positive rights. You want an e-bike, go buy it your damn self. Which is a lot easier if government stays out of the way of the manufactures, retail sellers, and their customers.
I am increasingly seeing e-bikes on the roads in Wisconsin. I am not aware of any rebate program. Initially these bikes were popular with the older rider and many my age now have e-bikes. Now, I am seeing increasing number across many age brackets. I don't think the rebate is really needed as the e-bikes, unlike electric cars, are not really any more expensive than a good non-electric bike. Personally, I find the e-bike too heavy for a good ride. The weight usually from their heavier frame stock make them less desirable. I prefer a lighter bike.
You t doesn’t cost that much to have one of each, depending on your activities.
People need to be aware they are using lithium battery packs for their E-bikes and need to take special care and precautions while recharging . Cheap battery packs appears to be proliferating and the resulting fires from over charging or from misuse has caused more than 200 fires alone in N.Y. City one with fatalities.
Recharging a Lithium battery packs needs to be done under supervision. Never walk off or leave the house/ apartment while under recharge. You could end up with a pile of ashes.
After all, these battery cells are no different than the ones used in Teslas, Chevy Bolts and every other EV.
Can’t wait until insurance companies start ‘charging’ more for homeowner that have large lithium ion batteries on site.
I'm in favor of more people exercising which includes riding bicycles. I even believe that e-bicycles are beneficial for many people who are not capable of riding without the assistance.
I however do not support the government subsidizing anything. If something is of value then it will be worthwhile without the subsidy.
I do feel that for an e-bicycle to be considered a bicycle, that it should require pedaling for any assistance. E-Bicycles that have a throttle and allow assistance without any pedaling is not a bicycle.
A throttle bike should not be on bicycle paths, where a pedal assist bike should be allowed. For me it is more of a safety issue. Riders who are using a throttle bike are often less aware of other riders and present a hazard to other riders.
I agree that e-bikes should be pedal assist only. I do see many bikes that are obviously being run on the throttle with no actual pedaling.
There oughta be a law, right?
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