Adam Smith Wasn't a Progressive
Stop quoting him out of context on taxation, education, and monopoly.

Many people make dubious claims about Adam Smith's beliefs. The usual pattern is to claim that the economist was not really a wicked conservative (true) but a modern progressive (false).
Three common claims are that Smith favored progressive taxation, public education, and government regulation of monopoly. Two are entirely, one partly, false.
Progressive Taxation
Smith's first maxim of taxation, from Wealth of Nations, is that the "subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy under the protection of the state."
Taxation in proportion to revenue is not progressive taxation. It is proportional taxation—in modern terminology, a flat tax.
Not only did Smith not endorse a progressive income tax, he did not endorse any sort of income tax. "Capitation taxes," he warned, "if it is attempted to proportion them to the fortune or revenue of each contributor, become altogether arbitrary. The state of a man's fortune varies from day to day, and without an inquisition more intolerable than any tax, and renewed at least once every year, can only be guessed at. His assessment, therefore, must in most cases depend upon the good or bad humour of his assessors, and must, therefore, be altogether arbitrary and uncertain."
Smith did not want a tax on income. He wanted a system of taxation whose burden is proportional to income. Unlike most modern commentators, he realizes that determining who bears the cost of a tax is not as simple as seeing who hands over the money.
Here is another Wealth of Nations quote I have seen offered as evidence that Smith supported progressive taxation: "It must always be remembered, however, that it is the luxuries, and not the necessary expense of the inferior ranks of people, that ought ever to be taxed." This is interpreted as meaning that Smith wanted to tax the luxuries of the rich rather than the necessities of the poor.
But here is the full paragraph:
It must always be remembered, however, that it is the luxurious and not the necessary expense of the inferior ranks of people that ought ever to be taxed. The final payment of any tax upon their necessary expense would fall altogether upon the superior ranks of people; upon the smaller portion of the annual produce, and not upon the greater. Such a tax must in all cases either raise the wages of labour, or lessen the demand for it. It could not raise the wages of labour without throwing the final payment of the tax upon the superior ranks of people. It could not lessen the demand for labour without lessening the annual produce of the land and labour of the country, the fund from which all taxes must be finally paid. Whatever might be the state to which a tax of this kind reduced the demand for labour, it must always raise wages higher than they otherwise would be in that state, and the final payment of this enhancement of wages must in all cases fall upon the superior ranks of people.
Smith is arguing for taxing the luxuries of the poor, not of the rich. His argument is that a tax on the necessities of the "inferior ranks" will raise wages and hence be paid by the "superior ranks," and that one should therefore tax the luxuries of the former in order to be sure they bear their share of the tax burden. The conversion of "luxurious" to "luxuries," which makes the misreading possible—provided you don't read the rest of the paragraph—appears to have originated as a typo in a mid–19th century edition that Project Gutenberg put online.
Here is another quote sometimes offered as evidence that Smith favored progressive taxation: "It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."
The context here is Smith's discussion of taxes on the rent of houses. He observes that richer people pay a larger share of their income for rent and thus that the incidence of such a tax will be more than proportional to income. He is saying that a tax desirable on other grounds should not be rejected just because it falls more heavily on the rich. "Not very unreasonable" does not mean "desirable," which may be why some of those who offer the quote drop the first six words and capitalize the seventh to pretend that the sentence starts with "The rich should."
Noah Smith, of the Noahpinion newsletter, has offered this quote to claim that Adam Smith favored income redistribution: "Wherever there is great property there is great inequality. For one very rich man there must be at least five hundred poor, and the affluence of the few supposes the indigence of the many." He neglects the sentences that follow: "The affluence of the rich excites the indignation of the poor, who are often both driven by want, and prompted by envy, to invade his possessions. It is only under the shelter of the civil magistrate that the owner of that valuable property, which is acquired by the labour of many years, or perhaps of many successive generations, can sleep a single night in security.…Where there is no property, or at least none that exceeds the value of two or three days' labour, civil government is not so necessary." Smith is not arguing against inequality. He is saying that inequality is what makes government necessary.
In addition to having his words taken out of context, Smith sometimes has words assigned to him that we have no reason to believe he has ever said. Multiple posters claim that Smith wrote, "A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation. Most government is by the rich for the rich. Government comprises a large part of the organized injustice in any society, ancient or modern. Civil government, insofar as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defence of the rich against the poor, and for the defence of those who have property against those who have none."
The first sentence is by Howard Scott, quoted in a newspaper in 1933. The last sentence is from Smith. I can find no source for the two middle sentences.
And then there are the people who cite a sentence where Smith seems to quote Lord Kames' claim that a goal of taxation should be to "remedy inequality of riches as much as possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich." That sentence does not come from Smith but from one of Edwin Cannan's footnotes to his 1904 edition of Wealth of Nations, written more than a century after Smith's death. Cannan quotes Kames' rules regarding taxation because one of them is relevant to the passage Cannan is footnoting. The passage about remedying inequality of riches is a different one of Kames' rules, and nothing in the text suggests that Smith agreed with it.
Schooling and Antitrust
In the course of a very long discussion of education, Wealth of Nations offers arguments both for and against a government role in schooling. One passage is often offered as evidence that he supported such a role: "For a very small expence the public can facilitate, can encourage, and can even impose upon almost the whole body of the people the necessity of acquiring those most essential parts of education."
The next paragraph, usually not quoted, starts: "The public can facilitate this acquisition by establishing in every parish or district a little school, where children may be taught for a reward so moderate that even a common labourer may afford it; the master being partly, but not wholly, paid by the public, because, if he was wholly, or even principally, paid by it, he would soon learn to neglect his business."
"Can" does not imply "should." Smith also wrote: "Those parts of education, it is to be observed, for the teaching of which there are no public institutions, are generally the best taught."
Smith's final summary statement on the subject: "The expense of the institutions for education and religious instruction is likewise, no doubt, beneficial to the whole society, and may, therefore, without injustice, be defrayed by the general contribution of the whole society. This expense, however, might perhaps with equal propriety, and even with some advantage, be defrayed altogether by those who receive the immediate benefit of such education and instruction, or by the voluntary contribution of those who think they have occasion for either the one or the other."
In other words, some modest public funding of schooling is not unjust but an entirely private system might be preferable.
Then there is the claim that Smith favored regulation of monopoly. The passage from Wealth of Nations sometimes quoted as evidence for this: "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices." Jennifer Roback Morse, an economist and prominent social conservative, quoted this and commented: "Smith understood that the 'natural' tendency to cheat the public must be checked by legal and social norms. The law must prohibit some economic behavior."
But the passage continues:
It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies, much less to render them necessary. A regulation which obliges all those of the same trade in a particular town to enter their names and places of abode in a public register, facilitates such assemblies. It connects individuals who might never otherwise be known to one another, and gives every man of the trade a direction where to find every other man of it.
Smith is arguing not for laws against conspiracies in restraint of trade but against laws that help to create them—the 18th century equivalents of modern regulatory-cum-cartelizing agencies.
People who perceive Smith as a progressive observe, correctly, that he put a lot of weight on the welfare of the mass of the working population.
"Servants, labourers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconveniency to the whole."
What they miss is that Smith disagreed with them about what policies were in the masses' interest.
Rothbard on Smith
Most of these misrepresentations come from progressives trying to claim Smith for their side. But Murray Rothbard, the libertarian economist, has also tried to present Smith as a proto-progressive—not to claim him, but to reject him. In volume 2 of An Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought, for example, Rothbard wrote that Smith "advocated the soak-the-rich policy of progressive income taxation." I could find no support in Rothbard's book for that claim.
Rothbard also claimed that Smith supported public schooling, and he went into some detail on the purported reasons for this. He quoted Smith saying "the security of every society must always depend, more or less, upon the martial spirit of the great body of the people," and then Rothbard added: "It was an anxiety to see government foster such a spirit that led Smith into another important deviation from laissez-faire principle: his call for government-run education."
The first problem with this is that, as noted above, Smith did not call for government-run education. The second problem is that Rothbard reads Smith's reference to "martial spirit" as reflecting a "devotion to the militarism of the nation-state." This is misleading. Here is Smith's comment in context:
But the security of every society must always depend, more or less, upon the martial spirit of the great body of the people. In the present times, indeed, that martial spirit alone, and unsupported by a well disciplined standing army, would not, perhaps, be sufficient for the defence and security of any society. But where every citizen had the spirit of a soldier, a smaller standing army would surely be requisite. That spirit, besides, would necessarily diminish very much the dangers to liberty, whether real or imaginary, which are commonly apprehended from a standing army. As it would very much facilitate the operations of that army against a foreign invader, so it would obstruct them as much if unfortunately they should ever be directed against the constitution of the state.
Smith's argument on the virtues of a martial spirit is the same as an argument sometimes offered today for the right to bear arms: It makes a large military less necessary and a coup less likely to succeed. That is very nearly the opposite of what Rothbard implies.
Rothbard continues: "It is also important, opined Smith, to have government education in order to inculcate obedience to it among the populace—scarcely a libertarian or laissez-faire doctrine." He then quotes Smith: "An instructed and intelligent people besides are always more decent and orderly than an ignorant and stupid one. They feel themselves, each individually, more respectable, and more likely to obtain the respect of their lawful superiors, and they are therefore more disposed to respect those superiors. They are…less apt to be misled into any wanton or unnecessary opposition to the measures of government."
That statement looks rather different in context. It is preceded by a comment that schooling reduces "delusions of enthusiasm and superstition." Rothbard's ellipses remove Smith's observation that educated citizens "are more disposed to examine, and more capable of seeing through, the interested complaints of faction and sedition." Those parts of the text—and a phrase that Rothbard left in, about "wanton and unnecessary" stances—should make it clear that the objective is not blind obedience but support for good policy and opposition to bad.
What makes Rothbard's criticism of Smith's views on education particularly odd is the contrast with Anne Robert Jacques Turgot, who Rothbard describes as a better economist than Smith sadly neglected by later authors, emphasizing his support for laissez faire in a variety of contexts. Turgot urged the king of France to form "a Council of National Education, under whose direction will be placed the academies, the universities, the colleges, and all the smaller schools." For what purpose? "I can propose nothing to you more advantageous for your people, more fit to maintain peace and good order, to give activity to all useful works, to make your authority to be cherished, to attach to you each day more and more the affections of your subjects, than to give to all of them an instruction which opens their mind to the obligations they have to society and to your power that protects them, the duty which these obligations impose, the self-interest that all have to fulfill these duties, for the public good and for their own."
Rothbard was presumably familiar with this passage, since it was included in a collection to which Rothbard wrote the introduction. And he accuses Smith of wanting the government to control education in order to inculcate obedience?
Rothbard offers one criticism of Smith that I have not seen elsewhere: "He also favored moderate taxes on the import of foreign manufactures and taxes on the export of raw wool—thus gravely weakening his alleged devotion to freedom of international trade."
But Smith, like Turgot and unlike Rothbard, was not an anarchist. That left him with the problem of picking the least bad form of taxation for funding a government. What made Smith a free-trader was that he thought import and export taxes, including an export tax on wool, had a bad effect on the economy. It was not his policy objective; it was a cost of raising needed money.
The difference between Smith and Turgot was not that one believed more in the virtues of free trade than the other. It was that Turgot thought the ideal system of taxation would collect all of its revenue from the net produce of land, while Smith discussed the advantages and disadvantages of a wide range of alternative taxes.
Rothbard does not mention that when Smith was writing, the export of wool was a criminal offense. Smith, who described these controls in detail, wanted to replace that ban with a tax—a large reduction in government interference with trade. It is as though someone writing a century from now denied that one of our contemporaries was opposed to the war on drugs because he proposed that marijuana should be taxed, without mentioning that the tax was part of a proposal to legalize it.
Smith was a free-trader. He did not favor a progressive income tax or any income tax. He did not call for regulation of monopolies. His support for public schooling was tentative and partial. He was neither a modern conservative nor a modern progressive.
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Hello,
That is correct. Adam Smith, the Scottish economist, and philosopher, is widely known as one of the key figures in the development of classical economics and free-market capitalism. While his ideas have had a significant influence on modern economic thought, it would be inaccurate to describe him as a progressive.
Adam Smith's most famous work, "The Wealth of Nations," published in 1776, laid the foundation for classical economics. He emphasized the importance of free markets, individual liberty, and limited government intervention in economic affairs. Smith argued that when individuals are allowed to pursue their self-interest through voluntary exchange, the market mechanism would naturally lead to economic prosperity and societal well-being.
Smith's ideas centered on the concept of the invisible hand, which suggests that self-interested actions in a competitive market can benefit society as a whole. He believed that by pursuing their own economic interests, individuals unintentionally promote the common good by driving innovation, productivity, and efficiency.
While Smith recognized the importance of government in providing certain essential functions, such as maintaining law and order, defense, and infrastructure, he generally advocated for a minimal role of the state in economic matters. He criticized excessive government regulation and intervention, arguing that they could hinder economic growth and individual freedom.
Progressivism, on the other hand, refers to a political ideology that emerged in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, advocating for social and political reform. Progressive thinkers sought to address social inequality, improve working conditions, and promote government intervention to correct perceived economic and social injustices. This ideology often calls for an expanded role of the state in economic affairs and a more active approach to addressing societal problems.
While Adam Smith's ideas laid the groundwork for classical liberal economics, they do not align with the principles and objectives of progressivism. Smith's emphasis on free markets and limited government intervention stands in contrast to the progressive movement's call for a more active and interventionist state. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to characterize Adam Smith as a progressive.
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What's the difference?
Trying to sell something versus wanting to have something to say but not being able to write it coherently.
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What Adam Smith said of men is equally true of this idiot chatbot:
""The overweening conceit which the greater part of men have of their own abilities, is an ancient evil remarked by the philosophers and moralists of all ages. Their absurd presumption in their own good fortune has been less taken notice of. It is, however, if possible, still more universal. There is no man living who, when in tolerable health and spirits, has not some share of it. "
it would be inaccurate to compare any progressive of yesteryear to a progressive of today. The progressives were sane back then, they are insane today.
Classic liberalism and woke liberalism have nothing in common.
Many if the early 20th century progressives were racists.
Eugenicists
Weird that KMW allowed this article to be printed after her dumb "both sides" one.
Charles Koch must've told her to publish it to satisfy readership.
Pretty sure that’s one of the last things Charles Koch cares about. Why buy a personal propaganda mill just to occasionally cater to some freak plebs instead?
Mind games?
I can remember when Reason, without slurring Smith, called a pure, flat, proportional consumption tax a regressive tax structure. Implying that a flat consumption tax tied a sub-poverty UBI stipend was, therefor, 'balanced' rather than abjectly progressive.
At this point, pretty safe to assume Reason is *always* way more stupid than what's seen at first glance.
I just read the article you linked. It explained the FairTax bill that Republicans were supporting, but didn't call for it to be implemented.
The only stupid I see is a person reading an article about something and then declaring that the author and entire magazine are all-in on the subject.
Well you are well known for your excellent reading comprehension, sobriety and lack of kneejerk bias, so you must be right.
I can’t read what’s behind the gray box, but I can rephrase what I said for clarity and provide quotes for accuracy:
The bill would overhaul the nation’s entire tax code, scrapping all federal taxes in favor of the FairTax, a 23 percent national retail sales tax.
This quote from my citation is *exactly* what the article from Friedman (the economist above) says is a flat tax.
To account for the regressive structure of a pure consumption tax, the Fair Tax Act provides for a monthly stipend, which supporters call a “prebate.”
And here we plainly have what I described and pointed out at the time: a proportional or flat tax being described, flatly, as regressive, in direct opposition to the statement about and definition of flat or proportional tax.
I could get into whether somebody who writes a tax article should know the distinction and that they may be intentionally lying to their readers by perpetrating the deception, but, that would require motives and additional evidence while them just being stupid explains it sufficiently.
I could further go on about a *libertarian* magazine being superlatively irresponsible, if not disgustingly dishonest, for not catching and correcting the error before print whether they endorsed the policy or not. But really, their lack of even basic regard for private citizens and taxation is pretty obvious whether they're maliciously misinforming their readers or just incidentally doing so.
Definition of "regressive" seems important here too. If it means lower income people paying a higher proportion of their income in tax then the sales tax may well be regressive in that sense. Seems to me that "flat tax" is a term generally applied only to income tax rates since it's the only tax that is progressive in the income level sense. All sales taxes are flat in some sense as everyone pays the same rate on purchases. I'm going to say "flat tax" doesn't actually mean anything when you are talking about a sales/consumption tax proposal.
If it means lower income people paying a higher proportion of their income in tax then the sales tax may well be regressive in that sense.
Which, as I indicate in the thread of the other article makes is a “relatively regressive” tax with “relatively” noting that unlike the strict definition of “regressive” which refers to its own base, the relation is to a separate base not necessarily subject to this specific taxation.
I’m going to say “flat tax” doesn’t actually mean anything when you are talking about a sales/consumption tax proposal.
That’s because you’re being as lazy, dishonest, or brazenly self-righteous* as Joe Lancaster. A consumption tax isn’t the same thing as a sales tax. A consumption tax is based on the amount consumed not the value of the total amount. If there’s an economy of scale to be had, this renders a sales tax regressive and a consumption tax flat based on a common good or service.
I’m not spouting post-graduate economics here*. This is HS-Sophomore Math, English, and Econ. “Regressive”, “Income”, “Sales”, and “Tax” all have meanings and when you say “Regressive” and “Tax” without the “Income” or the “Sales” it changes the meaning.
Ultimately, the issue is as I pointed out, Joe, and Congresscritters, take what is essentially a progressive tax scheme (taking absolutely, proportionately, or relatively more from the wealthy *and* giving absolutely, proportionately, or relatively more to the poor) and present it as “fair” or “balanced” or “more flat”.
*Joe Lancaster: “Poor Definitions Matter!”; Normal English speaker: “All Definitions Matter!”
Happens all the time, but just the smart people figure out the article was actually just propaganda though.
There used to be libertarian publications whose editors made a point of libertarian ideological consistency. Reason now publishes articles by and interviews with a prominent and ardent drug prohibitionist, and another which proposes that "mental health" workers show up to deal with misbehaving people instead of police, as if those workers will not be acting as law enforcers. Reason is now full-bore therapeutic state, and there is no alternate publication that even addresses the psychiatric detention of people who are not charged with crimes.
In one respect I miss my days as a leftist, about 50 years ago. When you bought a socialist publication — like The Nation, The Militant, The Progressive — you knew you were going to get news and arguments intended to support the movement. If I wanted to read contrary views (and I did or I wouldn’t have become a libertarian), I would read other publications. Reason, in all it’s aspects, is what might be characterized as “pink” ,or soft, libertarianism. The great libertarian intellectuals are gone, the quality publications are gone, and the libertarian think tanks couldn’t be less militant. The entire movement has been domesticated by rich donors providing academics and journalists with cushy jobs that discourage outrage.
It’s the same level of stupid I see when the browser logs me out and I have to read replies from the liars I have on mute. They will quote something from me, claim it means the opposite of what I said, and at least four will join into the conversation. They’re so stupid it hurts, and it’s rubbing off on you.
Oddly the only people providing said evidence of your exact words posted is those you call liars, often having denied saying you said what is posted despite links. Weird.
Which article are you referring to? Link please.
Try using the search bar, sealion.
What progressives are going around claiming Adam smith is a progressive?
Most places I see, not a single progressive even knows Adam smith, much less what he wrote.
^Exactly this.
What progressives are going around claiming Adam smith is a progressive?
Do progressives gaslighting as libertarians count as progressives? Asking for a friend who is just, you know, putting it out there that some people… other people… totally not my friend, might consider Adam Smith progressive.
"What progressives are going around claiming Adam smith is a progressive?"
My reading of the article, illustrated by the text, is that some progressives have taken Smith out-of-context, or, sometimes attributed to him, things he never wrote, for the sole purpose of attempting to bolster their position. The literary equivalent of cherry-picking in statistics. Once accomplished, such individuals can go around claiming that such particular passage defines Smith as "progressive" or, at least, supporting some progressive pogroms (no, that is not a typo).
We see progressives do this all the time. See Jeff's rationalization of shooting Ashley Babbitt as being libertarian.
+
Wouldn't be the first time an economist was misrepresented by those with a political agenda. Free-spending politicians invoke Keynes, but ignore about half of what Keynes actually said.
Yes. We are talking about progressives.
He, much like Abraham Lincoln, was progressive for his time, therefore Republicans are poopy pants and Democrats (modern day progressives) are filled with nothing but good intentions.
Do you hate progress, bigot?
/s for those that can’t tell.
Most likely a top-down approach. The "learned" will publish papers, and write articles and books about it, and as it goes down the line the people will simply parrot what someone else said.
"The state of a man's fortune varies from day to day, and without an inquisition more intolerable than any tax, and renewed at least once every year, can only be guessed at."
Inquisition? Hold my beer!
- Every State Since
"Adam Smith Wasn't a Progressive. Stop quoting him out of context on taxation, education, and monopoly."
Reasonistas hardest hit.
If you click on his name, you'll find the author of this piece has an interesting history with Reason. He's an OG. He's been writing the occasional article for it since 1976. Back when it was still libertarian.
David is Milton's son.
Well I'll be.
Would explain his criticism of Rothbard.
Has a pretty good blog now mostly frozen in favor of an active substack.
Wrote a lot of good books. One of my favorite is “Legal Systems Unlike Our Own” or something similar. For instance, Athens required the rich to sponsor some big public work, like a new trireme, every other year. If you were accused of not doing so and could point out someone richer who had not done so, you were off the hook. How do you identify someone richer? Offer to trade homes; if he refuses, he is richer. Another was that you could search someone’s house to prove your legal case only if you did so naked, presumably to discourage frivolous harassment, but maybe to make sure you didn’t bring in fake evidence or steal contents.
(wrong place)
People say that often around here.
^ funny!
That's what she said.
"The public can facilitate this acquisition by establishing in every parish or district a little school, where children may be taught for a reward so moderate that even a common labourer may afford it; the master being partly, but not wholly, paid by the public, because, if he was wholly, or even principally, paid by it, he would soon learn to neglect his business."
Oh, Adam, you're so paranoid about teachers.
"People who perceive Smith as a progressive observe, correctly, that he put a lot of weight on the welfare of the mass of the working population."
He cares about the working poor, so he *must* be progressive!
The difference between he and proggies was his emphasis on actually HELPING them rather than punishing the well-off.
Fucking Rothbard took a nascent libertarian political party that had some chance of making an actual difference and turned into a marginal debating society.
Not an indefensible statement.
Yes. Those 3% wins were undone by Rothbard. Lol.
It is so weird seeing a self described libertarian be so upset at Rothbury. It is obvious from your argument you want zero debate on policy, just mass agreement with the views you hold.
Rothbard is the one who popularized and 'took over' the term 'libertarian' for what it is today here in the US. Outside the US, the term remains a mostly leftist anarchist term. Here, Rothbard tacked left in the late 60's to try to pull in leftist anarchists - similar to the folks at C4SS today. And then tacked right in the 80's and early 90's to pull in KKK and corporatist self-described anarchists.
Maybe a debating society is the best thing adherents of that term could ever expect for a 'political party' that derives from anarchism. Better than the usual bomb-thrower wings of anarchism.
But the original Libertarian Party wasn’t anarchist. They were genuinely trying to get their candidate elected.
"Maybe a debating society is the best thing adherents of that term could ever expect for a ‘political party’ that derives from anarchism."
Perhaps slime-bag lefty shits could STFU about their assholery.
Outside the US, the term remains a mostly leftist anarchist term.
Holy Fuck! Imagine how massively narcissistic and retarded you have to be to make this statement... to even assume you could make it in such a fashion and in any meaningful way.
"BEHOLD! I have read the minds of everyone from Mongolia to New Zealand... from the sands of the Saraha to the sands of the Gobi... from the ice lands of Canada to the ice lands of Chile... and there is, outside the US, but one, ONE! conception of libertarianism and it is mostly leftist anarchism."
Holy Shit what a fucking clown!
The hyperventilation is strong with this one
Yes. Punctuated breaks of hyperventilation interspersed among a series of long, several-minute intervals of appreciation of your brilliance.
I mean… Holy Shit…. you actually think that saying “leftist” and “anarchist” somehow clarifies things when you expand their definitions outside the US and you say that as if there’s one strict or fixed conception of “left” or “anarchist” in the US or even in the “left” or “anarchist” communities.
I have never quite been able to understand why modern debates frequently center on arguments similar to "... even your patron saint Adam Smith was against your ideas ..." as if what Smith thought has any bearing on the correctness or flaws of our current opinions. An analysis of Adam Smith's opinions must start with translating the mode of writing in the 1700s into something more recognizable to modern commentators in a more modern context before trying to figure out how they might be adapted to conditions after three centuries. For the record, it does not bother me at all if my opinions contradict Adam Smith's opinions, although I would feel it incumbent upon me to try to explain why I think such a genius might have gone wrong compared to my humble abilities. The only time I think it is important for us to understand the opinions of our great political and economic forbears is in the context of debates about "original intent" or "first principles" of the framers of the Constitution. It is crucial, in my opinion, for all Federal laws, regulations, executive orders and Supreme Court decisions to be consistent the principles underlying the original intent of the framers and with the written words of the Constitution insofar as they can be correctly discerned.
"An analysis of Adam Smith’s opinions must start with translating the mode of writing in the 1700s into something more recognizable to modern commentator..."
Well, yeah. Or one could actually better educate oneself in the English language so that such "translation" is not necessary. No, I am not being glib. Such a "translation" always, without fail, distorts, to at least some extent, the original meaning of the author.
Such a “translation” always, without fail, distorts, to at least some extent, the original meaning of the author.
Now do a Ugandan anti-rape and anti-HIV law and selectively juxtaposed with modern, American “What is a woman?”, “Bepenised individuals enjoy no biological sport advantage over uterus-havers.”, and “Shitting on a pride flag is a hate crime, worse than just defacing property.” sensibilities.
"as if what Smith thought has any bearing on the correctness or flaws of our current opinions."
'Current year', right?
"That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 1:9
"An analysis of Adam Smith’s opinions must start with translating the mode of writing in the 1700s into something more recognizable to modern commentators in a more modern context"
Eighteenth-century phraseology isn't exactly Middle English. If someone has to parse out meaning from it, they're probably too low-IQ to be reading economics to begin with.
"Eighteenth-century phraseology isn’t exactly Middle English."
Ya think?
Yup and this author is basically rewriting Smith to fit his own ideology.
Smith wouldn't agree with a lot of the progressives of today but he wouldn't agree with the MAGA folks either.
It works better as an argument to use against someone who upholds Adam Smith as an icon but hasn’t actually read him.
I suppose one can say exactly the same thing about The Bible and people who swear by it but haven’t actually read it.
I suppose one can say exactly the same thing about The Bible and people who summarily dismiss it, but haven’t actually read it.
FFS. Talk about taking entire SECTIONS of Smith out of context. Adam Smith was a classical economist so he structured his entire chapters re taxes as tax on land (no accident that's the first one too), tax on capital, tax on labor (meaning nowadays income), and the misc taxes (consumption, exports/imports, excise/sin).
It is the tax on land - in ag areas, 'rent on land'; in urb areas, 'ground rent' - that Adam Smith sees as zero-sum. Too LOW a land tax benefits the rentier at the expense of everyone else - for a benefit that Smith (and most everyone else then) saw as UNearned. But that is pretty much the opposite of keeping taxes as low as possible to eliminate distortions. Re land - and ground-rent in particular:
Ground-rents seem, in this respect, a more proper subject of peculiar (meaning - extra) taxation than even the ordinary rent of land. The ordinary rent of land is, in many cases, owing partly at least to the attention and good management of the landlord. A very heavy tax might discourage too much this attention and good management. Ground-rents, so far as they exceed the ordinary rent of land, are altogether owing to the good government of the sovereign, which, by protecting the industry either of the whole people, or of the inhabitants of some particular place, enables them to pay so much more than its real value for the ground which they build their houses upon; or to make to its owner so much more than compensation for the loss which he might sustain by this use of it. Nothing can be more reasonable than that a fund which owes its existence to the good government of the state should be taxed peculiarly, or should contribute something more than the greater part of other funds, towards the support of that government.
He correctly sees how land tax 'leaks' out into - in ag areas 'tax on the product of the land' (a tax on farmer labor) and in urb areas 'tax on the rent of houses' (aka what we now call property tax). And he sees the problem then of money value (nec to pay the tax) fluctuating relative land-rent value - a problem that no longer exists because bank money IS money backed by mortgage loans. But those are not problems of NOT having a land tax.
Just skipping over land is dishonest as fuck.
"...because bank money IS money backed by mortgage loans."
Left shits repeat lies in the hopes that with sufficient reps, they'll somehow become true.
They won't JFree; fuck off and die.
All bank money is backed by loans. This isn't rocket science.
All bank money is backed by loans.
Bank loans are backed by Deposits.
I generally like Rothbard, especially his "Conceived in Liberty" history in five volumes which has fascinating little historic tidbits you'll find nowhere else. But he's bonkers on taxation.
* Thinks deductions for business lunches etc are great because they help restaurants.
* Thinks is terrible that people want to abolish or at least limit federal tax deductions for local and state taxes. He actually brings up people like himself living in expensive cities and states like New York City, says its not their fault the taxes are high, and they should be able to deduct the full amount.
Bunch of other excuses too, I forget them now, those were the ones which really astounded me.
It's not that he thinks taxes are great, just that he thinks the form of taxation, the deductions and such, are fine for him, thus should be applauded by everybody.
I'll take a quick gander, add quotes if I can find them.
The more loopholes in taxes, the better. As Lew Rockwell says, when you read "loopholes," think "remaining freedoms."
The ideal tax would be none. Since people seem to think we need a government of some sort, we have to pay for it somehow (donations?) A truly fair tax would be one where the total government budget is divided by the number of adult citizens and each one is sent a bill for their fair share. That would finally create a sizable voter base for keeping government spending to a minimum.
If the Feds want to spend 6 trillion and there are 300 million adults, everyone has to pay up 20K. Suddenly people might think 4 trillion is enough, like it was 5 years ago.
Loopholes are not good; they give the impression of reducing taxes while doing no such thing. If the government wants to spend $6T, it will, and all loopholes do is favor some cronies at everybody else's expense and create more parasitical jobs for accountants and lawyers, and more excuses for government to levy fines for honest misunderstandings.
Loopholes are more government intervention in the economy.
That would require massive Massive MASSIVE government intervention so that the currently poor could pay $20k per person. Like maybe a $50/hr minimum wage.
so that the currently poor could pay $20k per person
Link Voting to Payment... The first year of Taxpaid Voting will lead to a massive reduction in Government which would lead to more people being able to buy a vote and government increasing until they price themselves out of voting again.
I'm OK with people who can't afford their wants not being able to vote others into paying for those wants.
Rothbard was able to offset some of that expensive NYC by living in a rent-controlled Manhattan apartment, according to Dr. Robert Nozick.
I don't have any problem with someone taking advantage of government loopholes. I have all sorts of problems with people trying to create the loopholes.
I have a problem with hypocrites.
This Adam Smith quote ought to answer the question of how progressive he was:
“Mercy to the guilty is cruelty to the innocent.”
Taxation in proportion to revenue is not progressive taxation. It is proportional taxation—in modern terminology, a flat tax.
Or a national sales tax, because the guy buying yachts is paying more than a guy shopping at Walmart.
Smith did not want a tax on income.
No libertarian should.
Taxes on income are old hat. Wealth taxes are where it’s at.
Adam Smith was not progressive. His views on taxation, education, and monopolies were rooted in a conservative mindset. While he advocated for free markets and limited government intervention, his ideas favored the wealthy and perpetuated inequality. Smith's emphasis on self-interest and the pursuit of profit did not address the social and economic needs of marginalized communities. Thus, it is inaccurate to consider him as a progressive thinker.
https://www.gloryhukukvedanismanlik.com/
Correct; not a brain-dead proggy.
his ideas favored the wealthy and perpetuated inequality.
Nearly everything favors the wealthy. That's why it's desirable to be wealthy. If being wealthy didn't mean having special privileges and nicer things and an easier life, then no one would care.
Inequality is a likely outcome in a capitalist system. But such systems also create a lot more rich people. And improve everyone's standard of living far faster than anything else ever has. Perhaps "inequality" is the wrong thing to be concerned about.
Inequality is a likely outcome in a capitalist system.
Inequality is the only outcome in every system.
Actually in his time, and in ours, free markets are hated by the oligarchs. They want government protection and largesse.
"Stop quoting him out of context on taxation, education, and monopoly."
They can't. All abusive totalitarian ideologies must necessarily rest on a steaming mountain of lies to be believed, and thus gain supporters. Truth is therefore an existential threat, and so there is no great work which totalitarians will not either simply defile, or attempt to proclaim actually supports their malicious agenda.
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Who cares what an dead old white guy said, anyway.
Woah! "He observes that richer people pay a larger share of their income for rent and thus that the incidence of such a tax will be more than proportional to income. "
This may have been true back in the day (tho the rich much more often own their homes and so pay no rent, whereas the poor more rarely own and so pay rent most of the time) but it is not true today.
The US Bureau of Labor reports that of those making $15-20K a year, they pay 29.2% for housing, the middle $50-90K pay 26.7% and the above $150K pay 27.5%. So, in the US today, the poorest of the poor pay the highest proportion for housing, not the rich.
And if we view it thru another lens, the contrast is even more striking, in contradiction to what Smith may have observed or assumed: according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, for the bottom 20 quintile of the population "The median renter in this bottom group pays 56 percent of monthly income on rent.....Anecdotal evidence may lead some to believe that rent rise proportionally with income, but that belief is inaccurate. The lowest income renters pay about half the median rent of the highest income renters, yet earn only 10 percent of the latter group’s income."
So either Smith was wrong or the situation he claims to have observed has been reversed so that the poorest pay the highest proportion, so much so that they most often do not have enough for food and so much rely on government assistance.
This reality totally changes the argument designed to discourage taxing the rich at higher rates or denying that the poorest have it as bad as soe claim
I was going to point that out. Thank you. Smith was an honest scholar and would have revised his position in current times.
Smith was trying to end mercantilism. He partially succeeded. We actually don't know what a lot of his policies would be today. Conditions are very different today.
“The median renter in this bottom group pays 56 percent of monthly income on rent…..
Rents will rise to meet the availability of government subsidies.