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Free Speech

How Ron DeSantis, Tucker Carlson, and Elon Musk Will Change the Section 230 Debate

Expect the very foundations of the internet to come under attack from politicians and the mainstream media.

Robby Soave | 5.25.2023 1:18 PM

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Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk, Ron DeSantis | Illustration: Lex Villena; Gage Skidmore, Steve Jurvetson
Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk, Ron DeSantis (Illustration: Lex Villena; Gage Skidmore, Steve Jurvetson)

Twitter is in the midst of a transformation: It is becoming a right-leaning news platform. This will have profound consequences for the debate about Section 230, the federal statute that shields websites from some liability created by users, which effectively allows the internet to function as a lightly restricted space.

Elon Musk purchased Twitter last year with the stated goal of making the site more hospitable to all kinds of political expression. But Musk is himself increasingly associated with the right; on Wednesday, Republican Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis announced his bid for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination during a Twitter Spaces live event alongside Musk, an avowed supporter of DeSantis.

Musk's Twitter is also attracting top conservative talent. After acrimoniously parting ways with Fox News, conservative superstar Tucker Carlson declared that he would relaunch his show on Twitter. The Daily Wire, a conservative media empire, recently decided to release all of its podcast videos on the site as well. "If Elon Musk stands by his commitment to make Twitter a home for free speech and delivers on monetization opportunities and more sophisticated analytics for content creators, I imagine we will invest even more into the platform," said Daily Wire CEO Jeremy Boreing.

Neither The Daily Wire nor Carlson appears to have special deals with Musk, who has said that they will be bound to the same rules as anyone else posting content on the site. But consider Musk's situation with respect to Carlson, and compare it to the host's previous relationship with Fox News.

After all, Carlson's departure from Fox News followed the resolution of the company's legal dispute with Dominion Voting Systems. Dominion sued Fox, arguing that its programming had been defamatory; guests who appeared on Fox News shows, including Carlson's, were accused of making false statements about Dominion. Under traditional defamation law, Fox News was liable for statements on Carlson's show.

Twitter is not.

As an online platform, Twitter cannot be sued in most cases for its users' speech. That's the entire point of Section 230: to empower websites to craft whatever speech policies are best for them, without forcing them to incur risk. Without Section 230, social media sites would have to moderate content far more aggressively. If Facebook and Twitter could be sued for users' speech, then they wouldn't be able to let users post at will, without approval or review.

"One advantage of Section 230 is it allows different platforms to try different models of online content moderation to serve specific audiences," says Jennifer Huddleston, a technology policy research fellow at the Cato Institute. "Recently, we've seen this with Elon Musk's changes to Twitter's content moderation rules in ways that create new opportunities for conservative news content."

At least prior to Musk's Twitter takeover, this underlying reality has vexed some on the right. Leading Republicans—including former President Donald Trump, Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas), and others—have alleged unfairness, arguing that social media sites do not deserve this liability shield if they operate in a politically biased manner.

"With Section 230, tech companies get a sweetheart deal that no other industry enjoys," said Hawley.

While Republicans have railed against Section 230 for empowering social media sites to moderate too much content, Democrats have criticized it for the opposite reason: They want to punish Meta, Twitter, and Google for not censoring more content. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) has proposed various schemes to make the sites liable for user content, on the theory that this would force the companies to take down alleged right-wing misinformation with greater vehemence.

Here's a prediction: If Twitter becomes the new home for right-leaning content, Republicans will have to rethink their ire toward Section 230; Twitter cannot exist without it. Democrats, on the other hand, will become much more vocal about the need to rein in tech and subject the platforms to the same liability standards as noninternet publishers. They will cast Section 230 as a giant loophole that allows Musk to evade responsibility for Carlson's speech. They will say that misinformation—the great crisis of our age, according to Democratic thinking—cannot be stopped so long as the platforms themselves are immune.

Section 230, of course, provides protection to everyone who wishes to express himself online. It is the reason that the internet has remained such a liberating, freewheeling place. Repealing or replacing it would risk damaging the very foundations of the largely unfettered discourse that exists on social media.

"Section 230 has been critical to protecting the speech of all users online by allowing platforms to carry user-generated content without the fear of business-ending litigation as result of how a user used their platform," says Huddleston. "The result is that a variety of voices, including conservative news voices, have more opportunities to connect with their audience thanks to online platforms."

Nevertheless, expect these foundations to come under even more strenuous attack from politicians and the mainstream media as Twitter becomes the right's new home.

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NEXT: The County Sold Her Home Over Unpaid Taxes and Kept the Profit. SCOTUS Wasn't Having It.

Robby Soave is a senior editor at Reason.

Free SpeechPoliticsSection 230Elon MuskTwitterTucker CarlsonRon DeSantisSocial MediaInternetMediaTechnology
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  1. I, Woodchipper   2 years ago

    Let the tears and hand wringing commence!

    1. Overt   2 years ago

      "Democrats, on the other hand, will become much more vocal about the need to rein in tech and subject the platforms to the same liability standards as noninternet publishers."

      Uh, they have been that way for years. That is literally why the Twitter files show that these companies have been censoring: to keep the democrats off their back.

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  2. Nardz   2 years ago

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    2. Sisyphus   2 years ago

      If that's all you've got, do everyone a favor and either leave or get some duct tape. You're worthless.

  3. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   2 years ago

    But Musk is himself increasingly associated with the right

    Musk supports a UBI and aggressive climate legislation like Cap and Trade. He is clearly in tune with the new Republican Progressive aka "MAGA Communist" movement.

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      “MAGA Communist”

      Never stop pushing this trope, please. I can't think of a better phrase to make even your own allies go "Woah!".

      1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

        Who would ally with a cp enthusiast?

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          Jeffy, White Mike, Tony, just to name a few.

          1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

            And Anustasia.

        2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          Sarcasmic. That little tard white knights for the pedo every chance he gets.

          1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago (edited)

            He white knights any of the above plus Turd. If it’s not one of us, he white knights them. Earlier, in the Roundup, he was white knighting Mike Laursen and Jeffy. I’m not sure if it's to be contrary, or it's the alcohol talking.

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      “MAGA Communist”

      That term...
      You do realize there's no such thing outside of your fantasies, don't you?

      1. charliehall   2 years ago

        MAGA Republicans can't think this deeply. If Trump wins in 2024, and Republicans control both houses of Congress, he will order them to repeal Section 230 and they will roll over and say yes, sir. Twitter and Facebook, neither run by liberals, will be sued into nonexistence.

        For that matter, this site might as well.

        1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

          So Zuckerberg is alt-right now too?
          You need a new medication.

        2. Sevo   2 years ago

          "MAGA Republicans can’t think this deeply."

          Lefty shits can sure come up with strawmen, can't they lefty shit?

          1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

            I wonder how many lefty idiots will become confused by the MAGA communism talking point and vote for Trump,

    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      Left and Right are now tribal identities, not statements of political ideology.

      That is how you can have people like Elon Musk and Glenn Greenwald (a literal socialist) and Tulsi Gabbard (pro-choice, supports 'free' community college) associated with "the Right", while people like Mitt Romney and Liz Cheney (about as doctrinaire conservative as one can get) associated with "the Left".

      1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

        That's because the issue isn't "left" and "right" anymore, it's authoritarian versus anti-authoritarian. Greenwald, Gabbard, Taibbi, et.al. are anti-authoritarians. Cheney and Biden, et.al. are authoritarians.

        1. Nardz   2 years ago

          Chemjeff isn't a person, he's a malignant tumor

        2. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

          So the "anti-authoritarian" Right wants the government to restrict the books your kids can read in public school, and wants the government to restrict how private companies train their workers about racial issues. Do I have that right?

          1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

            Believe it or not, but most parents don’t want the schools to supply their kids with porn.

          2. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

            Your only care seems to be about giving porn to kids. Why? And more importantly have government fund said porn. Why?

            1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

              Communists have long wanted to convert children to achieve their utopia.

              Also, they’re perverts.

              1. JesseAz   2 years ago

                Jeff is more than a pervert.

                1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

                  I think he gives perverts a bad name.

          3. JoeB   2 years ago (edited)

            No, you’re wrong. Porn, no matter the fake label, shouldn’t be available to kids in libraries, and making the workplace a hostile work environment for white folks is both wrong and stupid. Hmm, wrong and stupid…

          4. EISTAU Gree-Vance   2 years ago (edited)

            “….train their workers about racial issues.”

            JFC , you are the worst radical individualist ever.

      2. Sisyphus   2 years ago

        Yes. Never quite understand why people think there's a real difference. As with EVERYTHING, follow the money. If you can figure that out, you'll know where everything is going.

    4. Sevo   2 years ago

      turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

  4. Ra's al Gore   2 years ago

    Whatever the intent, 230 has become “you get the power and rights of The NY Times and the protection Verizon and T-Mobile get, as long as you ban what the state wants banned”.

    1. mad.casual   2 years ago

      This was the intent. It just didn't explicitly say "NY Times", "Verizon", and "T-Mobile". So, mad-lib style, Rs could fill in "Rush Limbaugh" and "AM Radio" and Ds could fill in "Howard Stern" and "FM Radio". Now that Reason's got the mad-lib portion filled in the way Koch likes, zero shits are given about the second clause. Well, mostly filled in and nearly zero shits. If Twitter is right-leaning, then they might have to do something with or about the second clause.

    2. Overt   2 years ago

      Well that is the actual problem, right? The problem isn't that private actors get to moderate as they choose. It is that the market has been coopted so that only A FEW actors are allowed to exist. And whether we have 230 or not, those actors will do anything the state desires to protect that status.

      230 is a canard. The root problem is that our country is reaching European levels of entrenched interests. The telecommunication systems that cary data; the banks that finance your company; the regulators that gum up- or smooth out- your business operations; all these systems are now state-controlled enterprises. Anything that you do with section 230 will have no impact.

    3. cjcoats   2 years ago (edited)

      Section 230 gives the provider the authority to censor content that is “obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable”(see https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/230) . IMNHO, this means: 1) To the extent the censorship does not fit this pattern but is ideological (etc.), the provider is acting as a publisher, not a Section-230-protected provider. 2) To the extent that a provider falsely claims one of the above categories, that provider should be liable for defamation.

      FWIW

  5. Naime Bond   2 years ago

    '...That's the entire point of Section 230: to empower websites to craft whatever speech policies are best for them, without forcing them to incur risk...' Utter garbage. It was to allow them to run open spaces (a park ) for everyone and if a kid got snatched and murdered by a pedophile, you could not hold them accountable; it wasn't to let them craft whatever admission policies they felt are best for them. If they didn't want to open for everyone then they can shut down admission for anyone which makes absolutely no sense when you have the potential to hold a license to print money and 100% immunity.

    1. Overt   2 years ago

      This is untrue. The creators deliberately created section 230 so that if you wanted to create a forum for Libertarians or Conservatives or Liberals and moderate to enforce that vision, you could do so.

      1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

        Bullshit. Read the damn law.

        (2) Civil liabilityNo provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of—
        (A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or
        (B) any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).[1]

        Nothing in there about moderating to maintain a politically walled garden.

    2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      What do you mean “have a license to print money”?

      1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

        Autism victim?

  6. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    How Ron DeSantis, Tucker Carlson, and Elon Musk Will Change the Section 230 Debate
    Expect the very foundations of the internet to come under attack from politicians and the mainstream media.

    Don't make me post Facebook's regulatory statements on section 230 again. Don't make me do it. Because I'll do it.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Go ahead.

      1. JoeB   2 years ago (edited)
    2. JoeB   2 years ago

      You're not gonna do it.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago

        I swear some of you have no actual intellectual curiosity.

        https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/03/facebooks-pitch-congress-section-230-me-not-thee

  7. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    Here's a prediction: If Twitter becomes the new home for right-leaning content, Republicans will have to rethink their ire toward Section 230; Twitter cannot exist without it.

    So Twitter can't exist without the Communications Decency act?

  8. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

    which effectively allows the internet to function as a lightly restricted space.

    [...]

    Expect the very foundations of the internet to come under attack

    [...]

    Also, interesting provincial attitudes on display here. Section 230

    [...]

    It is the reason that the internet has remained such a liberating, freewheeling place.

    Surprisingly provincial attitudes on display here, considering Section 230 applies ONLY to the political construct known as The United States of America. Any of these hyper-global Silicon Valley entities that have any operations whatsoever in ANY foreign country whatsoever are subject to these business-killing lawsuits.

    The EFF, whatever one thinks of them, has at least begun to recognize this uncomfortable fact, and is trying to get Section 230 rolled into NAFTA-- because what good is "the first amendment of the Internet" when it only applies here? That is, unless you think of section 230 as a kind of "tariff" against foreign competition.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      Oh, and by the way, you know how I found out that the EFF was trying to stuff Section 230 (unclear whether they're trying to stuff section 230 by itself, or the whole Communications Decency Act law) into NAFTA? Canadians aren't happy about it. That's how I found out.

      The EFF loves it;

      “Tucked inside the CDA of 1996 is one of the most valuable tools for protecting freedom of expression and innovation on the Internet, Section 230. This comes as somewhat of a surprise since the original purpose of the legislation was to restrict free speech on the Internet.”

      It goes on to say that the Internet community, including the EFF objected to the CDA and, as mentioned, certain elements of the legislation were struck down by the Courts. However, according to the EFF;

      “Thankfully, CDA 230 remains and in the years since has far outshone the rest of the law”.

      1. mad.casual   2 years ago

        This comes as somewhat of a surprise since the original purpose of the legislation was to restrict free speech on the Internet.

        [Det. Drebin voice]Like a trannie in the women's locker room, section 230 came as a bit of a surprise.[/Det. Drebin voice]

        1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

          [Det. Drebin voice]I didn't expect to just be hanging out there like a ladydick.[/Det. Drebin voice]

  9. Dillinger   2 years ago

    in line with the double-negative, if an article misrepresents seventeen premises are they all then correct?

  10. JesseAz   2 years ago

    It is becoming a right-leaning news platform.

    At least I can skip the rest of the article.

    1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

      Yeah, no shit.

      He went on to say Musk is increasingly associated with the right, which are weasel words. "Associated with" by whom? The twitterati who are angry that they can no longer censor other views?

      Musk was a life long Democrat supporter. He's decidedly not "with the right" so much as the "left" walked away from him by going to far into progressivism craziness he seems "right" by comparison.

      He also likes the attention and it doesn't take but the tiniest prod to make them freak the heck out.

      1. mad.casual   2 years ago

        The first sentence and a half essentially posits right-*leaning* speech as a problem for S230 to solve or a threat for S230 to address.

        It's utterly insane that a liberty-oriented magazine would print that, let alone posit it as supposition.

        1. JesseAz   2 years ago

          It is them admitting their defense of 230 was centered around censoring thought they openly disagree with.

      2. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

        Musk did post a tweet admitting to voting for Biden with a frown emoji. Alt right now.

        1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

          Heh, no shit.

          Still don't know what Alt right is. Or natcon. Or... fuck, man, I can't keep up with how I'm awful anymore. I just assume alt-right is another Pepe the Frog thing off of 4chan.

          1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

            Alt right and NatCon means anyone to the right of AOC and Bernie and thus, certainly as bad (if not worse) than a certain Austrians Vegetarian failed painter.

            1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

              NatCon sounds so scary, almost, kind of sort of just like National Socialist... except different. Save us, Reason!

      3. perlmonger   2 years ago

        > Musk was a life long Democrat supporter.

        So was Trump, and yet... 😉

        1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

          The true believers hate an apostate more than anything.

          1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

            Better a pagan from the start than to fall into heresy.

    2. Truthteller1   2 years ago

      That claim is complete bullshit. Robbie is an establishment cuck.

      1. BigT   2 years ago

        Shorter Soave:
        Twitter allowing free speech by Republicans is bad.
        What an a-hole, and what a position for Reason to publish. KMW is turning Reason into the Atlantic. As long as Reason is centered in DC it will continue to be pro-government intervention.

  11. mad.casual   2 years ago

    Twitter is in the midst of a transformation: It is becoming a right-leaning news platform. This will have profound consequences for the debate about Section 230

    1. It's not happening.
    2. OK, it's happening, but it's not as bad as you think.
    3. OK, it's happening and it's as bad as you think, but it's a good thing.
    4. It's happening and it's as bad as you think, and that's a good thing, but every private transformation is potential a threat to our good thing. <- You are here.

  12. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

    It is becoming a right-leaning news platform.

    So does that meant it was left-leaning before?

    1. mad.casual   2 years ago

      And, one step further, as indicated above, as long as it was left-leaning, there was no debate or issue with S230.

      For a true 'both sides' libertarian, Robby vaults effortlessly over an awful lot of "these partisans good, those partisans bad" *and* "these partisans abide the law, those partisans subvert it" suppositions.

  13. ThomasD   2 years ago

    ...the very foundations of the internet...

    Nice pantshitting Rico.

    "Somebody might change the rules that favor us" is a slightly more apt description of what you really mean you rent seeking POS.

    1. Stuck in California   2 years ago (edited)

      Yeah, that phrase is horrible, too.

      I mean, I might posit that the megacorps like Twitter, Google, Facebook, et al have destroyed the very foundations of the internet by siloing information and forcing everyone into their silos — which is precisely where the power to control what information gets published comes from.

      It’s like there’s only one signmaking company in town and they’ll only print “Soave is great” signs, suddenly another sign shop pops up that will print anything anyone in town wants and Robbie thinks the very foundations of the community are being shaken.

    2. BigT   2 years ago

      expect these foundations to come under even more strenuous attack from politicians and the mainstream media as Twitter becomes the right's new home.

      He understands that the leftists are dead set against free speech, and will try to undermine it on Twitter.

  14. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/NotRadix/status/1661805759615696900?t=Ilj1s_pqJ9SV-GfxB-7y0g&s=19

    A man will spend nearly 20 years in prison, not for murder or anything violent, but for "plotting to oppose the transfer of presidential power." A vague and nebulous phrase. What does it mean to "plot to oppose," the transfer of power? Does simply thinking about it make one guilty by way of thought crime? I wonder how that could be applied to the @FBI agents like @petestrzok and @NatSecLisa who "plotted to oppose to transfer of presidential power," to Trump in 2016.

    [Link]

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      “plotting to oppose the transfer of presidential power.”

      “Plotting to oppose" the transfer of presidential power isn't illegal.

      Ignoring the fact that Strzok and the FBI actually did launch a coup, a lot of elected Democrats would be in trouble for "opposing". Every time a Republican has been elected president over the last few decades, House Democrats have opposed and objected to the result.

      Nonsense charges and convictions like this are just more evidence that the US is now a fascist plutocracy, and people like Jeff, Mike, Sarckles and Buttplug couldn't be happier.

  15. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1661747295438921729?t=3nmgc6xXUs7IZXHIQYjudQ&s=19

    BREAKING: I have obtained the internal email that @Target sent to their employees following the Pride month disaster that has caused them to lose $9B in one week, where is goes from standing with the "LGBTQIA+ community" to the anniversary of George Floyd lmfao.

    [Link]

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      I've been on the edge of not shopping there for a year or so. Stopped completely last month when even my 9 year old asked what the fuck was going on with the pride display.

      1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

        You know what real acceptance looks like? When no one gives a fuck. Real acceptance isn't about being out and proud. Ask the Irish. Or the Italians. Or the Poles. Today, no one really gives a shit. About the most Irish thing most people can think of is totally Americanized (corned beef and cabbage on St Patrick's day is not a thing in Ireland and never has been, it's totally an American thing, as is the heavy drinking, etc). Hell, the Italians and Poles don't even have that. When was the last time (outside Deadwood reruns) you heard anyone call a Scandinavian or German a square head? Hell, even for most Americans of Norse heritage about the closest thing we have to a pride event is the lutefisk and lefsa super at the Sons of Norway or the local Lutheran Parish. If you want true acceptance you don't rub your differences in other people's face for a whole month. The idea that the best way to overcome prior prejudices is by being in other people's face about how you're difference is so ass backwards. You know how you kill prejudices? Show how much you have in common. Dancing in butt less chaps at midday in a parade through downtown isn't going to get people to accept you. I don't care what your sexuality is, you can be straight as you like, but if you're dancing in public in assless chaps, people aren't going to accept you. Hey, my wife likes to be tied up and spanked sometimes. If we held an S&M pride parade with her dressed up in her sexy cheerleader outfit and ropes, most people would object to that too.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          "Hey, my wife likes to be tied up and spanked sometimes."

          Is that what sparked your initial interest in ranching?

          1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

            No, but it has given us an excuse to buy some interesting 'toys'. Really the riding crop is for the hose... Wink.

            1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

              Also, she still hasn't gotten the Princess Leia Slave outfit. Which is really disappointing.

            2. JesseAz   2 years ago

              For the hose indeed.

        2. Nardz   2 years ago

          "About the most Irish thing most people can think of is totally Americanized (corned beef and cabbage on St Patrick’s day"

          Wut?

          1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

            Corn beef and cabbage on St Patrick's day is a totally American thing, not an Irish thing. Look it up.

            1. Nardz   2 years ago

              I don't doubt it's an American thing, I've just never heard of it as a staple of the Irish, St. Patrick's Day, or as a dish in general.
              Sounds German

              1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago (edited)

                More German Jewish, originally. Traditionally brisket is the cheapest cut of meat on beef, being the toughest, thus sold to the lowest stratums of society. To make it easier to chew requires a cooking or preservation method that breaks the meat and tenderizes it. Texas Barbecue was derived by cowhands, who usually got the brisket when steers were slaughtered. Smoking is a good way to tenderize tough meats (actually, almost all traditional BBQ derives as a means to tenderize less desirable cuts of meat, ribs also tend to be tough cuts of meat traditionally). Corning is also another way of breaking down tough cuts of meat, using salt and pickling spices. When the Irish immigrated to the US and were looking for a cheap cut of meat that they could serve on Saint Feast Day's, they discovered Jewish butchers who had been corning briskets for centuries as a way both to preserve and tenderize brisket. That is how Corned Beef and Cabbage became associated with St Patrick's day in America.

                1. VULGAR MADMAN   2 years ago

                  Very interesting.

                2. Nardz   2 years ago

                  TY

              2. JesseAz   2 years ago

                I make it every st paddy's day... and once a month. Because it is fucking awesome and easy.

                1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

                  I actually corned my own brisket this year. Not bad but need to decrease the salt next year. Really easy to do to.

              3. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

                "Bringing Up Father", a comic strip which was the Calvin and Hobbes of the 1920's, featured an Irish immigrant named Jiggs who was besotted with corned beef and cabbage.

                This popularized the idea of corned beef and cabbage as an Irish dish in American popular culture.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bringing_Up_Father

                1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

                  There was more to it than that. But, yes. This is why non Irish Americans think it's an Irish thing.

                  One thing people don't realize is that the Irish, not being particularly acceptable to WASP Americans, often lived near other unpopular communities, like the Jewish parts of town. Irish would often go for something simple that kept well like bacon (Irish rashers type bacon) and cabbage as a staple. You couldn't get pork products from Jewish butchers, but Corned Beef from jewish delis was great and way cheaper than beef had been in Ireland.

                  So it's totally an Irish AMERICAN thing, beef was prohibitively expensive in Ireland 100, 150 years ago. So corned beef (or any beef product for working class) was never a thing in Ireland. Pork was the cheaper meat, thus bacon and cabbage.

                  My grandfather ran an A&P between Irish and Jewish neighborhoods a hundred years ago. His father told the stories of landing in New York and how before then they ate bacon and cabbage back home.

              4. Zeb   2 years ago

                It's a New England thing I think.

        3. JoeB   2 years ago

          It's not acceptance that they are after, hence the forced validation, indoctrination, and outright grooming.

        4. Stuck in California   2 years ago

          A total aside.

          Assless chaps is repetitively redundant. A tautology. Like tuna fish, close proximity, or a military soldier. I mean, chaps are only leggings by definition. Unless there has been a new innovation, they are just to keep the legs of a rider protected from sticks and twigs, or thorns, or maybe cactus spines in a dry desert.

          First and foremost, I realize this has nothing to do with the topic of acceptance. Just a spur of the moment thought when reading the phrase. Sorry for derailing the talk, I hope my apology is adequate enough. I'm going to head out and watch the evening sunset now.

        5. mad.casual   2 years ago (edited)

          I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before: all the siblings and cousins on my maternal grandfather’s side of the family called his BIL “Uncle Dago”. All the siblings and cousins on my great uncle’s side called my grandfather “Uncle Fritz”. Until we were in our teens, we had no idea anyone considered them insults.

          In grad school, an undergrad tech asked where I was from. I said I was a Hoosier. She looked at me funny and replied, “A Hoosier from where?” In the St. Louis area “Hoosier” connotes less “Someone from Indiana” and more “Wigger”. It was personally, doubly-funny as, when I met my wife's, then girlfriend, friends, they asked where I was from and I said the same, they replied "No, your family." I said they're all Hoosiers too. They were trying to get at my family lineage, but it was lost in translation, 300 mi. away, in the same country.

    2. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      "the Pride month disaster that has caused them to lose $9B in one week"

      They don't give a shit. Throw out your textbooks on economics when it comes to billion dollar multinationals.

      1. The CEOs and boards of these companies don't give a shit about fiduciary duties. They still have networks, big salaries and golden parachutes even if they deliberately drive the company right into the dirt.

      2. Their peers and wives opinions are far more important than those of their customers. A bunch of their fellow aristos saying "Attaboy" at the club is easily worth a round of layoffs and a $9 billion hit.

      3. If worse comes to worst and they've been faithful with their DEI, Blackrock will make them whole. It's not like it's a secret either. Blackrock's been publicizing that for several years now.

      4. It's religious. Religious duties trump economics.

  16. Uomo Del Ghiaccio   2 years ago

    Elon Musk is associated with the disaffected left not the right. He like many of disaffected left realize that the democrat party is more of a threat to freedom than the republican party is.

  17. Social Justice is neither   2 years ago

    Robby comes at this from the leftist perspective of actively exercising power for political purposes and cannot conceive of anyone not doing explicitly that.

  18. Overt   2 years ago

    Wait...Twitter has stopped censoring people on the right (at the behest of the government) and that makes it "Right Wing"?

    Maybe...just maybe....what Soave thinks is "right wing" is just, you know, centrist?

    To be clear, I have seen absolutely zero flight of Lefties from Twitter. For all of their bluster about Mastadon, ENB, Soave, Binnion, and the others are still tweeting away. They are still posting their Outrage Cancel Tweets (c.f. the NY Bike Karen) regularly. They are still poking fun at conservatives and DeSantis every chance they get. And Trump hardly ever posts there.

    So by what quantifiable measure is Twitter now "Right wing"? Because they decline to ban the people who (like about 60-70% of the population) don't believe it is a good idea for kids to get sex changes, or for teachers to be teaching the same?

    1. JesseAz   2 years ago

      Plenty of leftists openly say support of free speech is right wing.

    2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   2 years ago

      They are still posting their Outrage Cancel Tweets (c.f. the NY Bike Karen) regularly.

      Many of those tweets are being deleted now that "Bike Karen" was proved incontrovertibly *checks notes* on the right side of history and is now having her lawyer send out defamation notice letters.

      1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

        Read someone yesterday who is still saying she was at fault for getting upset. A six month pregnant woman after working a 12 hour shift got upset because someone tried to steal the bike she legally rented, and people are now trying to blame her for getting upset and not backing down. WTF is wrong with people? Pregnancy is tiring. Working 12 hour shifts as a medical professional is tiring and stressful. Someone trying to steal from you is also stressful. But she's to blame because she got upset. No, she's to blame because of her skin color and the fact she didn't back down to the thieves who happened to be the right skin color. Oh and she's a woman, which seems to be becoming increasingly taboo with the leftists too.

        1. mad.casual   2 years ago

          Again, my favorite part was that they grabbed some other bio off the hospital's website and people were shouting "She's probably Ukrainian. They're all racist." at a bio that had nothing to do with the incident.

          Talk about social contagion.

    3. chemjeff radical individualist   2 years ago

      Musk's Twitter is also attracting top conservative talent. After acrimoniously parting ways with Fox News, conservative superstar Tucker Carlson declared that he would relaunch his show on Twitter. The Daily Wire, a conservative media empire, recently decided to release all of its podcast videos on the site as well. "If Elon Musk stands by his commitment to make Twitter a home for free speech and delivers on monetization opportunities and more sophisticated analytics for content creators, I imagine we will invest even more into the platform," said Daily Wire CEO Jeremy Boreing.

      1. JesseAz   2 years ago (edited)

        So not censoring right wing voices makes it right wing.

        Youre a fucking idiot jeff.

        Notice your quote cites free speech for everyone. I know you hate that.

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          If someone would have told me fifteen years ago that tens of thousands of actual fascists would be calling Musk, Greenwald, Taibbi, Russell Brand, Jimmy Dore, etc. "right-wing" as an insult, even though their views didn't change one iota, I would have laughed at the improbability.

          Jeff and his ilk are ludicrous.

          1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

            Bill Maher is also soon to be added to that list. Which is kinda funny considering he used to be one of the ones labeling others fascists. But somewhere along the line he realized how crazy this shit is getting. And how illiberal the so called left is anymore.

            1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

              I remember teasing someone as a kid. We all did it, it seemed normal because the whole class was in on it. Then one day she started crying and I kind of felt bad, like maybe I'd gone too far. And maybe I'd get in trouble for it, too.

              THIS is where Bill Maher is at. He was all left, all the time, regardless of the fact that his show was named for the Politically Correct speech movement the left tried to push in the late 80s/90s. He was riding the tide, because he could be brash and cruel as long as he didn't slaughter any of Hollywood's sacred cows. And he did it for years, along with all the late night "news" progressive comedy shows and everything else out of hollywood.

              Now he's seeing the world burn and pretending to be repentant. But I think part of him sees profit in being the "voice of reason" and part of him just wants to pretend he didn't usher in the fucking culture his own self. You know, now that he's already made his millions off of promoting progressive bullshit for decades.

      2. Overt   2 years ago (edited)

        Yes, I read the article. Maybe you can read this part of my post:

        “For all of their bluster about Mastadon, ENB, Soave, Binnion, and the others are still tweeting away. [Left-leaning voices*] are still posting their Outrage Cancel Tweets (c.f. the NY Bike Karen) regularly. They are still poking fun at conservatives and DeSantis every chance they get. And Trump hardly ever posts there.”

        Here’s some more “Right Leaning” news:

        * the White House has posted 2 stories in the past day. * AOC has tweeted 3 videos of her speeches on Capitol Hill. * The Twitter Live account has shared Live Streams of NBA, WNBA, Dell Tech Week, Google IO, the Met Gala. * The Democratic Party posted around a dozen videos in that same time. * You can find about 3 bajillion reports and media drops from various Antifa feeds. * NBC has posted half a dozen news videos and articles in the past 2 hours. * The Guardian has done a similar number

        I can go on for hours, but my point remains. You can only declare Twitter “Right Leaning” if you ignore the millions of left- (or other-) leaning voices that were already posting on the site. And the fact that a couple high-profile Right-leaning voices have shown up doesn’t make Twitter any more Right-Leaning than when Trump was posting their regularly in 2017.

        This leads me to conclude that Soave honestly thinks that if you don't have a blue-bubble monoculture of constant left-leaning pablum, you must be Right-leaning.

        * My intent that I was speaking about left-leaning voices here, instead of the Reason people was unclear in the previous post.

        1. Sevo   2 years ago

          "...And the fact that a couple high-profile Right-leaning voices have shown up doesn’t make Twitter any more Right-Leaning than when Trump was posting their regularly in 2017..."

          Or returned from being banned, perhaps?

          1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

            It's like being in a room full of blonde haired people. For the last few years everyone who is black haired has not been allowed in the room when the club meets.

            Suddenly brunettes are allowed in and Soave thinks the club is increasingly the domain of the black hairs when he used to think it was neutral and all inclusive.

            This author lives in an echo chamber. More so than most here, except maybe that ENB chick. And that's saying something.

            1. BigT   2 years ago

              “There goes the neighborhood” used to be a concern of racists keeping out blacks. Now it is Donkeys trying to keep out conservatives. Bigots will be bigots.

  19. KHP54   2 years ago

    The proper analogy is not to Fox News, but to the various cable companies. As far as I know, Xfinity was not a co-defendant in the Dominion lawsuit.

    1. Overt   2 years ago

      Yes comparing Tucker, employee of Fox to Tucker, content producer using Twitter without explaining "these aren't at all the same" was pretty sloppy.

      1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

        I'm convinced it's deliberate sloppiness.

        I can't believe that Robby doesn't know the difference.

        1. Stuck in California   2 years ago

          +1

  20. CicelyLyric   2 years ago (edited)

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  21. Lawman45   2 years ago

    Immunity from liablility for items POSTED by others is correct.

    The POWER to censor those posts is wrong.

    Big Tech social media forums have become the 21st Century "public square". Intentional or not that is the reality they have created om their persuit of profit.

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      “The POWER to censor those posts is wrong.”

      On one’s own privately owned website?

      1. soldiermedic76   2 years ago

        Pretty sure most are publicly traded companies, did this get board approval or shareholder approval, and how is this furthering the fiduciary duties, as required by law for a publicly traded company?

        1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

          We've already explained what a 'fiduciary duty' is to Mike. Now he's just playing ignorant.

          1. Palatki   2 years ago

            He's not playing.

      2. BigT   2 years ago

        It is perfectly acceptable for sites to censor. BUT, they should be required to post their terms publicly in detail and held legally accountable to them like any other contract. This way the censored person can sue them for fraud.
        The terms should be held constant for a set time, to prevent shape-shifting.

  22. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/wil_da_beast630/status/1661829137151959071?t=3g7jr4g2XltRm5otC3TjDA&Wuthering?

    It is worth remembering how much of the mainstream George Floyd narrative was pure fiction.

    The one autopsy produced by doctors who actually saw and touched Floyd states: "No life-threatening injuries identified. No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures."

    [Link]

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      Fortunately a scapegoat was sacrificed, and thousands of small businesses presented as burnt offerings to the gods of DEI and CRA.

  23. Nardz   2 years ago

    https://twitter.com/dom_lucre/status/1661830356629172224?t=tnfu-Zd7cuSUgJt66E59Hw&s=19

    THREAD: Proof that the 2020 United States Presidential Election was The Most Secure Election of All Time.

    [Links]

  24. DRM   2 years ago

    Without Section 230, social media sites would have to moderate content far more aggressively.

    No, they wouldn't. They'd be free to not moderate at all. Liability for distributors follows knowledge, under Smith v. California (1959). In a world without Section 230, not only is no moderation vastly cheaper than employing a massive army of moderators, but it's also the lower-liability choice. Any high-volume platform that chooses to moderate would accordingly be crushed by simple economics.

  25. williams25248   2 years ago

    Is Twitter really becoming the "right's new home"? Or is it just that a left-leaning social media outlet is finally allowing some non-left content without censorship?

    1. bobodoc   2 years ago

      Kind of and then Yes, which is why they can be on the new Twitter. Perfect questions williams25248.

  26. bobodoc   2 years ago

    btw, don't you love Robby's hyperventilating and handwringing. He can't say what is really true because then he'd lose some really cool friends.

    1. Mother's Lament   2 years ago

      Those cocktail parties generate the most flattering hair complements.

  27. TJJ2000   2 years ago

    Yes at the end of the day the Republican Supreme court did uphold Section 230. The Republican party will embrace Section 230.

    Because; Leftards only character strength is THEFT/PROJECTION. Whatever they do; they pretend (make believe) the other party is doing. It's a coping mechanism for not having to look directly at their pure evil intentions.

  28. SezWhom   2 years ago

    WOW! Great job of entirely missing the point, Reason!
    Conservatives don't want censorship, progressives do. All conservatives want is a level playing field. As we hear all the disgusting efforts to limit "misinformation", "disinformation", and "hate speech", remember all those efforts are coming from progressives. All those efforts are nothing more than ways to censor conservative speech. It remains entirely acceptable to spew hate speech against Trump, to spew misinformation about Hunter's laptop, and lie about Trump/Russia collusion. The need for censorship applies only to people who fight AGAINST the hatred and lies.

    And then there is the now well-established link between democratic "leaders" and Twitter censorship. That, or course, is unconstitutional to the max, and entirely ILLEGAL, regardless of 230.

    Are Rumble, Parler, Gab, Locals, Truth Social or any other conservative media censoring and persecuting progressives? No. Let's call it the way it is: Progressive media and progressive democrats are totalitarians. They tolerate NO disagreement and NO discussion. And then they have the audacity to say that all this censorship and persecution is necessary to "preserve our democracy." They are not just hypocritical phonies, they are dangerous. They must be stopped, or we will just become another China or Russia.

  29. OldNassau 2   2 years ago

    "Expect the very foundations of the internet to come under attack from politicians and the mainstream media."
    The foundations of the internet are not the misinformation or outright lies therein, but rather the audience that chooses to believe in that misinfomation. The article makes no mention of the receptive audience, only of the three speakers. People are free to speak; others, to accept. But as the recent sentencing of Jan 6th instigators and participants, people are not free to act harmfully.

  30. Johnathan Galt   2 years ago

    Section 230 is, was, and always will be an abomination. Abolish it in it's entirety.

    1. Vernon Depner   2 years ago

      No, just tighten up the wording so that only otherwise tortious or illegal content may be moderated.

  31. Mike1776   2 years ago (edited)

    ISTM people should be responsible for their actions. Where a person is employed as an agent of a company, such as with writers for newspapers, the law of agency should come into play. ^ For the most part, people who post on social media are not employed by the social media platform. They may be employed by a company such as a newspaper or online website and be posting as an agent of that company or not. ^ In any case, ISTM notwithstanding the agency situation, it is the poster that should be held liable for what they post and not the social media platform they post on. ^ Now, granted that would make it harder for an aggrieved individual or company to sue, and they would not win much from the individual in a lawsuit. Then again, they don’t sue protestors who stand or march outside the company building and say defamatory things about the company

  32. Victoria Parrish   2 years ago (edited)

    I am making a good salary from home $6580-$7065/week , which is amazing under a year ago I was jobless in a horrible economy. I thank God every day I was blessed with these instructions and now it’s my duty to pay it forward and share it with Everyone,
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