Joe Biden More Vulnerable in 2024 Primary Than Donald Trump Ever Was in 2020
If Robert Kennedy Jr. and Marianne Williamson can draw nearly one-third of Democratic support, imagine how more conventional challengers would do.

The first two national polls of the declared 2024 Democratic presidential primary contest came out Thursday, and they already reveal an incumbent far more vulnerable to intraparty challenge than Donald Trump ever was in 2019–20.
Environmental/vaccine activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., no doubt benefiting from unusually high name recognition, polled at 21 percent in an Emerson College survey and 19 percent in a Fox News poll—both higher figures than any Trump challenger received at any time during the last presidential cycle. Also eye-opening were the results for spiritual guru and 2020 primary also-ran Marianne Williamson: 8 percent and 9 percent, respectively, after never once polling higher than 2 percent in her first run.
The Emerson survey, which did not offer respondents the choices of "other," "not sure," or "none of the above," had Biden at 70 percent. Fox did include those categories (they received a combined 11 percent), and the president's support was down to 62 percent. The lowest poll number Trump ever registered against a declared 2020 primary opponent was 73 percent.
Biden's average of 66 percent vs. a combined 29 percent for his challengers compares unfavorably to Trump's average of 84 percent vs. an aggregate 7 percent for former Massachusetts Gov. Bill Weld, former Illinois congressman Joe Walsh, and former South Carolina Governor/congressman Mark Sanford, in the 2019 polls that included all three.
The comparative Kennedy/Williamson strength is all the more noteworthy considering that, unlike the group that Trump derided as "the three stooges," neither has held public office, let alone served as popular statewide officials. Both also belong to the unorthodox sliver of the Democratic spectrum, which is a lane that never attracted much interest in the party's 2020 primary, as voters were focused on finding the most marketable candidate to dislodge Donald Trump. Williamson, tech entrepreneur Andrew Yang, former congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, and the late former Sen. Mike Gravel never combined for more than 4 percent in the polls during any given month last time around.
So what accounts for the iconoclasts' comparative popularity in 2023? For one, Biden demonstrably does not have the same hold on Democratic voters as Trump did as president among Republicans. In 2019–20, Trump's approval rating among GOP voters, as measured by Gallup, rested between 87 percent and 95 percent. Biden, whose latest overall approval rating was at a personal low of 37 percent, has over the past 12 months drawn Democratic approval at almost 10 points lower, between 78 percent and 87 percent.
Multiple polls in the run-up to primary season have shown pluralities and sometimes even majorities of Democrats saying they wish Biden wouldn't run for reelection, though home-team support for his candidacy has lately started to rise. As The Washington Post's Aaron Blake put it last week, the incumbent "is a guy whom only about half of Democrats want to run, half say is too old to serve, and only about 4 in 10 approve of strongly. Just 1 in 5 say they would be enthusiastic about his winning." Biden's newly announced campaign, Blake observed, "is without comparison in modern American political history. Never have we seen so few members of a president's party wanting him to seek reelection."
The whys of Biden's soft support seem obvious enough: Americans are deeply pessimistic about the economy; nearly three-quarters think the country is going in the wrong direction. It's been a lousy past three years. And the guy in charge of the federal government ain't getting any younger. If Republicans somehow manage to avoid doing the stupid thing of renominating a proven presidential loser, and if Trump manages to resist sabotaging whoever would get the GOP nod, then Biden's one main advantage—he has proven he can beat the 45th president—evaporates overnight.
It's possible that Democratic voters, after indulging in a brief fling with political competitors, no matter how weird, will rally back around the old incumbent. For the moment, most major party figures, led by power-thirsty California Gov. Gavin Newsom, are being good soldiers. But if the anti-establishment fringe continues to attract nearly one-third of Democratic polling support, or even increase on that, keep on the lookout for three potential responses: 1) The Biden campaign strong-arming ostensibly neutral party institutions; 2) the media opening up an all-out assault on the (very assaultable) record of RFK Jr., and 3) the more ambitious of establishmentarians beginning to quietly edge off the sidelines.
Through both voter disinterest and Trump/Republican National Committee chicanery, the 2020 GOP primary was a dud. Democrats, love 'em or hate 'em, seem much more interested in a real-life contest. Buckle up.
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the 2020 GOP primary was a dud
'Dud - the Sequel' on deck for 2024.
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turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Democrats, love 'em or hate 'em, seem much more interested in a real-life contest
The party that isn’t planning on having a debate?
With a serious candidate they would. They're not going to give a platform to an anti-vaxx nut or a psycho-babble cat lady.
It would be like the RNC letting David Duke debate Donnie in 2020.
That said Biden is too old and needs to drop out.
So that’s the sad excuse you’re going with.
Biden was an actual segregationist.
Christopher Hitchens used to debate Neo-Nazis. The DNC isn't refusing debates "because there are no serious challengers" they're refusing debates because they don't want a serious challenger.
And they announced this early to clear any potential candidates.
But shrike defends dems at all cost.
I just wrote: That said Biden is too old and needs to drop out.
Exactly the opposite of what the DNC is for, idiot.
Wow. They’re dumber than you.
Remember that turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Hahahahahahaha
Keep shilling and flailing, demfag.
But it is bad for the DNC that Biden is polling so poorly against two total whack jobs.
They could always give a shot to the "serious" contenders like Kamala and "Mayor Pete". Just because those two couldn't get to half the level of support as "psycho-babble cat lady" last time doesn't mean there's no hope this time around.
Newsom himself would probably be stepping up to challenge Biden, but he got beat by DeSantis in a poll of CA voters a few months back. 60% of the voters in CA (maybe more after the exodus that's been going on since before Newsom took office) would vote for Hitler's ghost if it were on the ballot as a Democrat but the sitting governor somehow got to be despised enough to trail a GOP Governor who the CA media claimed was all but going door to door and killing first-born sons during the pandemic.
Yeah, I thought that was kind of a weird last line too. This is also the same party that rigged their nominating contest in 2016 for Hillary (IT WAS HER TURN!) and again in 2020 to fuck over Bernie Sanders (not that I’ll be shedding any tears over the poor old communist shit swizzler).
I like how we're supposed to believe that the party that rigged their last two presidential primaries would never stoop to such tactics in order to win an actual election against Literally Worse Than Hitler.
Or that anyone is expected to believe that the party which rigs their presidential primaries, now without debates, is the party that's actually "safeguarding democracy" while their opposition is made up of "domestic terrorists" and "existential threats".
Not to mention the DNC presumably rewriting their primary schedule so as make South Carolina, a Biden Democratic stronghold, the first primary.
“[…] imagine how more conventional challengers would do”
If no (D) debates take place while elections remain “fortified” in Biden’s favor, the answer is that the challengers will fail miserably and be vilified by the machine.
Machines, plural. As in Dominion Machines, in addition to the local election office network machine.
It is looking more like people matter more than the machines. Especially in regards to signature verification. While arizona was forced by the state Supreme courts to look into it, other districts that have had also found verification levels essentially set to zero. This is why Pennsylvania destroyed mail in ballots before the 2 years required by state law to maintain ballots. They don't want to look at ballot validity at all.
Got to cover their tracks,
GA went from an average signature rejection rate of 2% for a quarter century to a sudden signature rejection rate of 0.2% in 2020
The signatures presented in Arizona looked nothing like voter registration cards.
imagine how more conventional challengers would do.
I suppose there's a 5,000 word article here on how one would define "conventional" and what kind of "extra-campaign institutional support" -- as we'll call it because we're all friends here-- they got.
Speaking to this very subject:
*ctrl-f debate 0/0*
Matt, I love you, I really do, I think you're one of Reason's best writers, but to get through the entire question without even mentioning... in passing that the DNC has declared the 2024 election a no-debate zone isn't whistling past the graveyard, it's pretending the graveyard isn't there.
And not to beat a dead horse, but to beat a dead horse, 2020 had a lot of "conventional" Democratic candidates running, who were all doing better than Joe Biden was through most of the primary, and we saw what happened to them, and how they were treated via the mechanism of *checks article* Clinton/DNC chicanery.
The DNC and the press is doing this to themselves.
The DNC was more than fair to non-Democrat Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020.
They should have drop-kicked his sorry ass before 2016.
For the record, I wasn't talking about Bernie Sanders as the "alternative".
Surely you mean Spartacus.
Matt doesn’t get it, or is intentionally ignoring. Funny how the DNC shows an eerie lack of concern regarding election issues, poor candidates, popular support of debates, candidates hiding in basements, candidates who cannot speak/function/use the bathroom without assistance. Just like 2020 and 2022. That's because the DNC now has a vertical monopoly on voting processes, from primary to national. Who needs real majorities when you can manufacture them at will?
Leftist groups are now funding and staffing election offices with their people. Even in areas where election recorders are voted in. They donate time and "people" to run the election offices to implement the process they want.
Need to get a bunch of guys from war vet biker’s gangs to volunteer too. No more of that habit where they chase them out when the democrats want to bring in phony ballots.
for. ti. fied.
Not sure why Reason cares about dem debates since they ignored the DNC and Biden platforms in 2020.
if Trump manages to resist sabotaging whoever would get the GOP nod
Don’t say Scott Shackford or the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Biden manages to be less popular within his own party than Trump and, somehow, we get a quip about how Trump’s going to sabotage any given nominee. No need to clarify whether he will sabotage them by approving of them or sabotage them by disapproving because we already know that they will be sabotaged and it will be Trump’s fault.
Edit: Here's hoping Bill Weld doesn't sabotage the libertarian nominee.
Just take the damned vaccine.
If you don't want to get the jab, I hear they can put the gene therapy/vax into a cake for you
Bill Weld-LOL! His fifteen of fame are up. Maybe he should toss his hat in the ring for the dems.
I still remember when Gary Johnson sabotaged the Libertarian candidate for President in 2016!
"The first two national polls of the declared 2024 Democratic presidential primary contest came out Thursday, and they already reveal an incumbent far more vulnerable"
Biden is still polling strongly in the coveted Reason contributor demographic.
I plan to vote for RFK jr in the dem primary here just to piss off buttplug and other right-thinking democraps.
It’s not out of the question that RFK Jr. could take the nomination if Biden has a really catastrophic fuck up over the next year. Which is pretty likely when you think about how bad he’s fucked things up so far.
This has been my thought; have all the non-Trump Republicans and a slew of libertarians vote for RFK Jr in open primary states, as Trump can't win and Joe is a globalist puppet trainwreck.
Then watch the media/political complex suddenly push a "third party" candidate.
It would be a communist.
But he was also a proven winner, in an upset.
Did they ever admit that?
And he got 12 million more votes the second time around and still lost. Nothing close to that has ever happened. At least not in an election that isn’t riddled with fraud.
Of course he lost. His approval rating was way down at election time, more people registered to vote, turnout was higher and the population had grown. If you run actual numbers as opposed to repeating bubble bullshit, the outcome is consistent with what one would have expected. The data are actually out there for you to check.
But it's so much easier for the intellectually lazy to scream "fruad" (sic) than look at data. (Cue hysterical response from the usual suspects)
"more people registered to vote, turnout was higher and the population had grown."
The population had indeed grown since October 2016, by a whole 1.9%. Wow, huh?
Meanwhile the number of votes cast over the 2016 election went up 20.6%. Almost a quarter. What a miracle. Reversed a 150 year trend, all for a guy who people liked even less than Trump and campaigned from his basement.
That's an additional 26.6 million people. That's more people than Australia. That's two and a quarter Swedens. All for old Joe. They liked him so much some districts received twice as many ballots as they issued.
What a miracle, and if you doubt it, or have questions, then you're an evil conspiracy theorist who should be deplatformed and kicked off the internet.
That’s an additional 26.6 million ballots, not people...
So much easier to repeat liberal and act blue talking points huh shrike.
Still not shrike, you lying POS.
Actually it was not a talking point I repeated. An English friend of mine had heard the Trump talking point that you lot keep repeating, that how could he have had 12 million more votes and yet lost, and so I went away and ran the numbers - registration, turnout, population, and poll ratings, and lo! the numbers supported the official results. You see, unlike gullible authoritarians such as yourself and sundry other right-wing clowns here , I don't just repeat what your Dearest Leader or his acolytes tell you. I am quite capable of doing (as are you) and willing (as you are not) to do some basic maths myself just to check claims.
You're also an obnoxiously arrogant piece of shit who needs to fuck off and die.
Stop lying Shrike. No one here is buying.
Worrying about fraud reminds me of this blog post:
https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/05/the-2020-election-fuckery-is-afoot/
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Remember when Obama was super unpopular but still won?
Yeah; Biden is going to win. Against every citizens wishes....
But it'll be the 'most secure' election ever in the history of the USA.
If you dislike your recession, you can keep your recession.
Eat ze bugs
The amazing thing to me is that Biden even gets 1% in the poll
RFK Jr.’s support may reflect some silent portion of Democratic voters who secretly disliked the COVID narrative. That portion of Democrats might be halfway sizable, but it’s not going to be anywhere close to big enough to make RFK Jr. the nominee. The 2022 midterm results indicate that those Democrats must hold their nose and continue to vote for (almost always pro-lockdown) Democrats on Election Day.
Of course, due to his stances on vaccines in general (not just the COVID vax), his defense of murderers like Michael Skakel and Sirhan Sirhan, and his advocacy for locking up climate change “deniers”, I always wondered how much support RFK Jr. could even get from people who doubted the COVID narrative. (At leash outside of reason.com).
Considering the thousands of selfish power hungry Democrats who want to become President, I wouldn't be surprised if several more challengers announce their candidacy to run in 2024 (and begin criticizing Biden for his many blunders that are obvious to everyone except the loyalist and stupidest Democrats).
If Manchin announces he is running for President, another half dozen Dems (including far left wingers) might also run. That would make life tough for Biden, the DNC and the establishment.
Democrats and Republicans are an animal with 100 million stomachs and no brain. Given this premise, it would not be surprising to me that Trump and Biden are the nominees in 2024 as many aspects of American society continue to circle the drain. Instead of realizing that their "policy" hand is full of losers and sluffing some of them, the Democrats continue to double down on their failed and destructive social experiments and culture war. Instead of realizing that the only way they're ever going to win again is for them to actually repeal the socialist and culture war agenda imposed by the Democrats when they have the chance, Republicans mouth off and do nothing while trying to impose their own failed culture war era.
The campaign slogan:
Joe and the whore in '24
or the Ebonics version:
Joe and the ho in twenty fo'
In my life, it's a harbinger of doom, when a sitting President is challenged for the nomination, the party loses theWhite House.
1968 - Eugene McCarthy and LBJ, 1976 was Reagan and Ford, 1980 Kennedy and Carter, 1992 Buchanan and Bush