The Statistically Flawed Evidence That Social Media Is Causing the Teen Mental Health Crisis
Jonathan Haidt's integrity and transparency are admirable, but the studies he's relying on aren't strong enough to support his conclusions.
The social psychologist and New York University professor Jonathan Haidt wants journalists to stop being wishy-washy about the teen girl mental health crisis.
"There is now a great deal of evidence that social media is a substantial cause, not just a tiny correlate, of depression and anxiety, and therefore of behaviors related to depression and anxiety, including self-harm and suicide," Haidt wrote recently in his Substack, After Babel, where he's publishing essays on the topic that will also come out in the form of a book in 2024 tentatively titled, Kids In Space: Why Teen Mental Health is Collapsing.
In recent weeks, Haidt's work has been the subject of significant online discussion, with articles by David Leonhardt, Michelle Goldberg, Noah Smith, Richard Hanania, Eric Levitz, and Matthew Yglesias that mostly endorse his thesis.
In a recent post, Haidt took journalists, such as The Atlantic's Derek Thompson, to task for continuing to maintain that "the academic literature on social media's harms is complicated" when, in fact, the evidence is overwhelming.
I admire Haidt's skill and integrity as a writer and researcher. He qualifies his view and describes complexities in the areas he studies. He acknowledges that teen depression has multiple causes. He doesn't make unsupported claims, and you'll never find bland assertions that "studies prove" in his work, which is regrettably common in mainstream accounts.
And he's a model of transparency. Haidt posted a Google Doc in February 2019 listing 301 studies (to date) from which he has derived his conclusions, he began inviting "comments from critics and the broader research community."
I don't know Haidt personally and didn't receive an invitation to scrutinize his research four years ago. But more recently, I decided to do just that. I found that the evidence not only doesn't support his claim about teen health and mental health; it undermines it.
Let me start by laying out where I'm coming from as a statistician and longtime skeptical investigator of published research. I'm much less trusting of academic studies and statistical claims than Haidt appears to be. I broadly agree with John Ioannidis of Stanford University's landmark 2005 paper, "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False."
Gathering a few hundred papers to sift through for insight is valuable but should be approached with the assumption that there is more slag than metal in the ore, that you have likely included some egregious fraud, and that most papers are fatally tainted by less-egregious practices like p-hacking, hypothesis shopping, or tossing out inconvenient observations. Simple, prudent consistency checks are essential before even looking at authors' claims.
Taking a step back, there are strong reasons to distrust all observational studies looking for social associations. The literature has had many scandals—fabricated data, conscious or unconscious bias, and misrepresented findings. Even top researchers at elite institutions have been guilty of statistical malpractice. Peer review is worse than useless, better at enforcing conventional wisdom and discouraging skepticism than weeding out substandard or fraudulent work. Academic institutions nearly always close ranks to block investigation rather than help ferret out misconduct. Random samples of papers find high proportions that fail to replicate.
It's much easier to dump a handy observational database into a statistics package than to do serious research, and few academics have the skill and drive to produce high-quality publications at the rate required by university hiring and tenure review committees. Even the best researchers have to resort to pushing out lazy studies and repackaging the same research in multiple publications. Bad papers tend to be the most newsworthy and the most policy-relevant.
Academics face strong career pressures to publish flawed research. And publishing on topics in the news, such as social media and teen mental health, can generate jobs for researchers and their students, like designing depression-avoidance policies for social media companies, testifying in lawsuits, and selling social media therapy services. This causes worthless areas of research to grow with self-reinforcing peer reviews and meta-analyses, suck up grant funds, create jobs, help careers, and make profits for journals.
The 301 studies that make up Haidt's informal meta-analysis are typical in this regard. He doesn't seem to have read them with a sufficiently critical eye. Some have egregious errors. One study he cites, for example, clearly screwed up its data coding, which I'll elaborate on below. Another study he relies on drew all of its relevant data from study subjects who checked "zero" for everything relevant in a survey. (Serious researchers know to exclude such data because these subjects almost certainly weren't honestly reporting on their state of mind.)
Haidt is promoting his findings as if they're akin to the relationship between smoking cigarettes and lung cancer or lead exposure and IQ deficits. None of the studies he cites draw anything close to such a direct connection.
What Haidt has done is analogous to what the financial industry did in the lead-up to the 2008 financial crisis, which was to take a bunch of mortgage assets of such bad quality that they were unrateable and package them up into something that Standard & Poor's and Moody's Investors Service were willing to give AAA ratings but that was actually capable of blowing up Wall Street. A bad study is like a bad mortgage loan. Packaging them up on the assumption that somehow their defects will cancel each other out is based on flawed logic, and it's a recipe for drawing fantastically wrong conclusions.
Haidt's compendium of research does point to one important finding: Because these studies have failed to produce a single strong effect, social media likely isn't a major cause of teen depression. A strong result might explain at least 10 percent or 20 percent of the variation in depression rates by difference in social media use, but the cited studies typically claim to explain 1 percent or 2 percent or less. These levels of correlations can always be found even among totally unrelated variables in observational social science studies. Moreover the studies do not find the same or similar correlations, their conclusions are all over the map.
The findings cited by Haidt come from studies that are clearly engineered to find a correlation, which is typical in social science. Academics need publications, so they'll generally report anything they find even if the honest takeaway would be that there's no strong relation whatsoever.
The only strong pattern to emerge in this body of research is that, more often than you would expect by random chance, people who report zero signs of depression also report that they use zero or very little social media. As I'll explain below, drawing meaningful conclusions from these results is a statistical fallacy.
Haidt breaks his evidence down into three categories. The first is associational studies of social media use and depression. By Haidt's count, 58 of these studies support an association and 12 don't. To his credit, he doesn't use a "majority rules" argument; he goes through the studies to show the case for association is stronger than the case against it.
To give a sense of how useless some of these studies are, let's just take the first on his list that was a direct test of the association of social media use and depression, "Association between Social Media Use and Depression among U.S. Young Adults." (The studies listed earlier either used other variables—such as total screen time or anxiety—or studied paths rather than associations.)
The authors emailed surveys to a random sample of U.S. young adults and asked about time spent on social media and how often they had felt helpless, hopeless, worthless, or depressed in the last seven days. (They asked other questions too, worked on the data, and did other analyses. I'm simplifying for the sake of focusing on the logic and to show the fundamental problem with its methodology.)
The key data are in a table that cross-tabulates time spent on social media with answers to the depression questions. Those classified with "low" depression were the people who reported "never" feeling helpless, hopeless, worthless, or depressed. A mark of "high" depression required reporting at least one "sometimes." Those classified with "medium" depression reported they felt at least one of the four "rarely" but didn't qualify as "high" depression.
Social media time of Q1 refers to 30 minutes or less daily on average; Q2 refers to 30–60 minutes; Q3 is 60–120 minutes; and Q4 is more than 120 minutes.
My table below, derived from the data reported in the paper, is the percentage of people in each cross-tabulation, minus what would be expected by random chance if social media use were unrelated to depression.
The paper found a significant association between social media time and depression scores using two different statistical tests (chi-square and logistic regression). It also used multiple definitions of social media use and controlled for things like age, income, and education.
But the driver of all these statistical tests is the 2.7 percent in the upper left of the table—more people than expected by chance reported never feeling any signs of depression and using social media for 30 minutes or less per day on average. All the other cells could easily be due to random variation; they show no association between social media use and depression scores.
A basic rule of any investigation is to study what you care about. We care about people with depression caused by social media use. Studying people who never feel any signs of depression and don't use social media is obviously pointless. If the authors had found another 2.7 percent of their sample in the cell on the lower right (high social media time and at least sometimes feeling some sign of depression), then the study might have some relevance. But if you exclude non–social media users and people who have never felt any sign of depression from the sample, there's no remaining evidence of association, neither in this table nor in any of the other analyses the authors performed.
The statistical fallacy that drives this paper is sometimes called "assuming a normal distribution," but it's more general than that. If you assume you know the shape of some distribution—normal or anything else—then studying one part can give you information about other parts. For example, if you assume adult human male height has some specific distribution, then measuring NBA players can help you estimate how many adult men are under 5 feet. But in the absence of a strong theoretical model, you're better off studying short men instead.
This is sometimes illustrated by the raven paradox. Say you want to test whether all ravens are black, so you stay indoors and look at all the nonblack things you can see and confirm that they aren't ravens.
This is obviously foolish, but it's exactly what the paper did: It looked at non–social media users and found they reported never feeling signs of depression more often than expected by random chance. What we want to know is whether depressed people use more social media or if heavy social media users are more depressed. If that were the finding, we'd have something to investigate, which is the sort of clear, strong result that is missing in this entire literature. We'd still want statistical tests to measure the reliability of the effect, and we'd like to see it replicated independently in different populations using different methodologies, with controls for plausible confounding variables. But without any examples of depressed heavy social media users, statistical analyses and replications are useless window dressing.
The authors' methodology can be appropriate in some contexts. For example, suppose we were studying blood lead levels and SAT scores in high school seniors. If we found that students with the lowest lead levels had the highest SAT scores, that would provide some evidence that higher lead levels were associated with lower SAT scores, even if high levels of lead were not associated with low SAT scores.
The difference is that we think lead is a toxin, so each microgram in your blood hurts you. So a zero-lead 1450 SAT score observation is as useful as a high-lead 500 one. But social media use isn't a toxin. Each tweet you read doesn't kill two pleasure-receptor brain cells. (Probably not, anyway.) The effects are more complex. And never feeling any signs of depression—or never admitting any signs of depression—may not be healthier than occasionally feeling down. Non–social media users with zero depression signs are different in many ways from depressed heavy users of social media, and studying the former can't tell you much about the latter.
The use of statistics in this kind of study can blind people to simple logic. Among the 1,787 people who responded to the authors' email, there were likely some people who became depressed after extensive social media use without any other obvious causes like neglect, abuse, trauma, drugs, or alcohol. Rather than gathering a few bits of information about all 1,787 (most of whom are irrelevant to the study, either because they're not depressed or aren't heavy social media users), it makes sense to learn the full stories of the handful of relevant cases.
Statistical analyses require throwing away most of your data to focus on a few variables you can measure across subjects, which allows you to investigate much larger samples. But that tradeoff only makes sense if you know a lot about which variables are important and your expanded sample takes in relevant observations. In this case, statistics are used without a sense of what variables are relevant. So the researchers draw in mostly irrelevant observations. Statistics will be dominated by the 1,780 or so subjects you don't care about and won't reflect the seven or so you do.
The logic is not the only issue with this study. The quality of the data is extremely poor because it comes from self-reports by self-selected respondents.
All of the 2.7 percent who drove the conclusions checked "never" to all four depression questions. Perhaps they were cheerful optimists, but some of them were probably blowing off the survey as quickly as possible to get the promised $15, in which case the fact that most of them also checked zero social media time doesn't tell us anything about the link between social media use and depression. Another group may have followed the prudent practice of never admitting anything that could be perceived as negative, even in a supposedly anonymous email survey. And in any event, we cannot make any broad conclusion based on 2.7 percent of people, despite whatever p-value the researchers compute.
The measures of social media usage are crude and likely inaccurate. Self-reports of time spent or visits don't tell us about attention, emotional engagement, or thinking about social media when not using it. Checking that you "sometimes" rather than "rarely" feel helpless is only distantly related to how depressed you are. Different people will interpret the question differently and may well answer more based on momentary mood than careful review of feelings over the last seven days, parsing subtle differences between "helpless" and "hopeless." Was that harlequin hopelessly helping or helplessly hoping? How long you have to think about that is a measure of how clearly your brain distinguishes the two concepts.
The responses to the depression questions have been linked to actual depression in some other studies, but the links are tenuous, especially in the abbreviated four-question format used for this study. You can use indirect measures if you have strong links. If the top 5 percent of social media users made up 50 percent of the people who reported sometimes feeling depressed, and if 90 percent of the people who reported sometimes feeling depressed—and no others—had serious depression issues, then we could infer the heavy social media users had more than eight times the risk of depression as everyone else.
But weaker correlations typical of these studies, and also of the links between depression questionnaires and serious clinical issues, can't support any inference at all. If the top 5 percent of social media users made up 10 percent of the people who reported sometimes feeling depressed, and if 20 percent of the people who reported sometimes feeling depressed had serious clinical issues, it's possible that all the heavy social media users are in the other 80 percent, and none of them have serious clinical issues.
This is just one of the 70 association studies Haidt cited, but almost all of them suffer from the issues tabulated above. Not all of these problems were in all of the studies, but none of the 68 had a clear, strong result demonstrating above-normal depression levels of heavy social media users based on reliable data and robust statistical methods. And the results that were reported were all over the map, which is what you would expect from people looking at random noise.
The best analogy here isn't art critics all looking at the Mona Lisa and arguing about what her smile implies; it's critics looking at Jackson Pollock's random paint smears and arguing about whether they referenced Native American sandpainting or were a symptom of his alcoholism.
You can't build a strong case on 66 studies of mostly poor quality. If you want to claim strong evidence for an association between heavy social media use and serious depression, you need to point to at least one strong study which can be analyzed carefully. If it has been replicated independently, so much the better.
The second set of studies Haidt relied on were longitudinal. Instead of looking at a sample at a single time period, the same people were surveyed multiple times. This is a major improvement over simple observational studies because you can see if social media use increases before depression symptoms emerge, which makes the causal case stronger.
Once again, I picked the first study on Haidt's list that tested social media use and depression, which is titled "Association of Screen Time and Depression in Adolescence." It used four annual questionnaires given in class to 3,826 Montreal students from grades seven to 10. This reduces the self-selection bias of the first study but also reduces privacy, as students may fear others can see their screens or that the school is recording their answers. Another issue is since the participants know each other, they are likely to discuss responses and modify future answers to conform with peers. On top of that, I'm doubtful of the value of self-reported abstractions by middle-school students.
A minor issue is the data were collected to evaluate a drug-and-alcohol prevention program, which might have impacted both behavior and depression symptoms.
If Haidt had read this study with the proper skepticism, he might have noticed a red flag right off the bat. The paper has some simple inconsistencies. For example, the time spent on social media was operationalized into four categories: zero to 30 minutes; 30 minutes to one hour and 30 minutes; one hour and 30 minutes to two hours and 30 minutes; and three hours and 30 minutes or more. You'll notice that there is no category from 2.5 hours to 3.5 hours, which indicates sloppiness.
The results are also reported per hour of screen time, but you can't use this categorization for that. That's because someone moving from the first category to the second might have increased social media time by one second or by as much as 90 minutes.
These issues don't discredit the findings. But in my long experience of trying to replicate studies like this one, I've found that people who can't get the simple stuff right are much more likely to be wrong as the analysis gets more complex. The frequency of these sorts of errors in published research also shows how little review there is in peer review.
Depression was measured by asking students to what extent they felt each of seven different symptoms of depression (e.g., feeling lonely, sad, hopeless) from zero (not at all) to four (very much). The key finding of this study in support of Haidt's case is that if a person increased time spent on social media by one hour per day between two annual surveys, he or she reported an average increase of 0.41 on one of the seven scales.
Unfortunately, this is not a longitudinal finding. It doesn't tell us whether the social media increase came before or after the depression change. The proper way to analyze these data for causal effects is to compare one year's change in social media usage with the next year's change in depression symptoms. The authors don't report this, which suggests to me that the results were not statistically significant. After all, the alleged point of the study was to get longitudinal findings.
Another problem is the small magnitude of the effect. Taken at face value, the result suggests that it takes a 2.5-hour increase in social media time per day to change the response on one of seven questions by one notch. But that's the difference between a social media non-user and a heavy user. Making that transition within a year suggests some major life changes. If nothing else, something like 40 percent of the student's free time has been reallocated to social media. Of course, that could be positive or negative, but given how many people answer zero ("not at all") to all depression symptom questions, the positive effects may be missed when aggregating data. And the effect is very small for such a large life change, and nowhere near the level to be a plausible major cause of the increase in teenage girl depression. Not many people make 2.5-hour-per-day changes in one year, and a single-notch increase on the scale isn't close to enough to account for the observed population increase in depression.
Finally, like the associational study above, the statistical results here are driven by low social media users and low depression scorers, when, of course, we care about the significant social media users and the people who have worrisome levels of depression symptoms.
I looked at several studies in Haidt's category of longitudinal studies. Most looked at other variables. The study "Social networking and symptoms of depression and anxiety in early adolescence" did measure social media use and depression and found that higher social media use in one year was associated with higher depression symptoms one and two years in the future, although the magnitude was even smaller than in the previous study. And it wasn't a longitudinal result because the authors did not measure changes in social media use in the same subjects. The fact that heavier social media use today is associated with more depression symptoms next year doesn't tell us which came first, since heavier social media use today is also associated with more depression symptoms today.
Of the remaining 27 studies Haidt lists as longitudinal studies supporting his contention, three avoided the major errors of the two above. But those three relied on self-reports of social media usage and indirect measures of depression. All the results were driven by the lightest users and least depressed subjects, and all the results were too small to plausibly blame social media usage for a significant increase in teen female depression.
Against this, Haidt lists 17 studies he considers to be longitudinal that either find no effect or an effect in the opposite direction of his claim. Only four are true longitudinal studies relating social media use to depression. One, "The longitudinal association between social media use and depressive symptoms among adolescents and young adults," contradicts Haidt's claim. It finds depression occurs before social media use and not the other way around.
Three studies ("Social media and depression symptoms: A network perspective," "Does time spent using social media impact mental health?," and "Does Objectively Measured Social-Media or Smartphone Use Predict Depression, Anxiety, or Social Isolation Among Young Adults?") find no statistically significant result either way.
Of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Possible explanations for a researcher's failure to confirm social media use caused depression are that social media use doesn't cause depression or that the researcher didn't do a good job of looking for it. Perhaps there was insufficient or low-quality data, or perhaps the statistical techniques failed to find the association.
To evaluate the weight of these studies, you need to consider the reputations of the researchers. If no result can be found by a top person who has produced consistently reliable work finding nonobvious useful truths, it's a meaningful blow against the hypothesis. But if a random person of no reputation fails, there's little reason to change your views either way.
Looking over this work, it's clear that there's no robust causal link between social media use and depression anywhere near large enough to claim that it's a major cause of the depression increase in teen girls, and I don't understand how Haidt could have possibly concluded otherwise. There's some evidence that the lightest social media users are more likely to report zero versus mild depression symptoms but no evidence that heavy social media users are more likely to progress from moderate to severe symptoms. And there are not enough strong studies to make even this claim solid.
Moving on to Haidt's third category of experimental studies, the first one he lists is "No More FOMO: Limiting Social Media Decreases Loneliness and Depression." It found that limiting social media time to 10 minutes per day among college students for three weeks caused clinically significant declines in depression. Before even looking at the study, we know that the claim is absurd.
You might feel better after three weeks of reduced social media usage, but it can't have a major effect on the psychological health of functional individuals. The claim suggests strongly that the measure of clinical depression is a snapshot of mood or some other ephemeral quality. Yet the authors are not shy about writing in their abstract, "Our findings strongly suggest that limiting social media use to approximately 30 minutes per day may lead to significant improvement in well-being"—presumably limits from the government or universities.
This study is based on 143 undergraduates participating for psychology course credits. This type of data is as low quality as the random email surveys used in the first study cited. The subjects are generally familiar with the type of study and may know or guess its purposes—in some cases they may have even discussed ongoing results in class. They likely communicated with each other.
Data security is usually poor, or believed to be poor, with dozens of faculty members, student assistants, and others having access to the raw data. Often papers are left around and files on insecure servers, and the research is all conducted within a fairly narrow community. As a result, prudent students avoid unusual disclosures. Subjects usually have a wide choice of studies, leading to self-selection. In particular, this study will naturally exclude people who find social media important—that is, the group of greatest concern—as they will be unwilling to limit social media for three weeks. Moreover, undergraduate psychology students at an elite university are hardly a representative sample of the population the authors wish to regulate.
Another problem with these types of studies is they are usually data-mined for any statistically significant finding. If you run 100 different tests at the 5 percent level of significance, you expect to find five erroneous conclusions. This study described seven tests (but there's a red flag that many more were performed). Few researchers will go through the trouble of collecting data for a year and fail to get some publications out of it, and it's never a good idea to report to a granting institution that you have nothing to show for the money.
This particular study had poor control. Students who limited social media time were compared to students with no limits. But imposed limits that severely restrict any activity are likely to have effects. A better control group would be students limited to ten minutes daily of television, or video games, or playing music while alone. Having an additional control with no restrictions would be valuable to separate the effect of restrictions versus the effect of the specific activity restricted. Another problem is researchers could only measure specific social media sites on the subject's personal iPhone, not activity at other sites or on tablets, laptops, computers, or borrowed devices.
The red flag mentioned above is that the subjects with high depression scores were assigned to one of the groups—experimental (restricted social media) or control (no restrictions)—at a rate inconsistent with random chance. The authors don't say which group got the depressed students.
In my experience, this is almost always the effect of a coding error. It happens only with laundry list studies. If you were only studying depression, you'd notice if all your depressed subjects were getting assigned to the control group or all to the experimental group. But if you're studying lots of things, it's easier to overlook one problematic variable. That's why it's a red flag when the researchers are testing lots of unreported hypotheses.
Further evidence of a coding error is that the reported depression scores of subjects who were assigned to abstain from Facebook promptly reverted in one week. This was the only significant one-week change anywhere in the study. That's as implausible as thinking the original assignment was random. My guess is that the initial assignment was fine, but a bunch of students in either control or experimental group got their initial depression scores inflated due to some kind of error.
I'll even hazard a guess as to what it was. Depression was supposed to be measured on 21 scales ranging from zero to 3, which are then summed up. A very common error on these Likert scales is to code those scales instead as 1 to 4. Thus someone who reported no signs of depression should have been a zero but gets coded as a 21, which is a fairly high score. If this happened to a batch of subjects in either the control or experimental group, it explains all the data better than the double implausibility of a defective random number generator (but only for this one variable) and a dramatic change in psychological health after a week of social media restriction (but only for the misassigned students). Another common error is to select for control or experimental accidentally using the depression score instead of the random variable. Since this was a rolling study, it's plausible that the error was made for a period and then corrected.
The final piece of evidence against a legitimate result is that assignment to the control or experimental group had a stronger statistical association with depression score before assignment—which it cannot possibly affect—than with reduction in depression over the test—which is what researchers are trying to estimate. The evidence for the authors' claimed effect—that restricting social media time reduces depression—is weaker than the evidence from the same data for something we know is false—that depression affects future runs of a random number generator. If your methodology can prove false things it can't be reliable.
Speculations about errors aside, the apparent nonrandom assignment means you can't take this study seriously, whatever the cause. The authors do disclose the defect, although only in the body of the paper—not in the abstract, conclusion, or limitations sections—and only in jargon: "There was a significant interaction between condition and baseline depression, F(1, 111) = 5.188, p <.05."
They follow immediately with the euphemistic, "To help with interpretation of the interaction effect, we split the sample into high and low baseline depression." In plain English, that means roughly: "To disguise the fact that our experimental and control groups started with large differences in average depression, we split each group into two and matched levels of depression."
"Taking a One-Week Break from Social Media Improves Well-Being, Depression, and Anxiety: A Randomized Controlled Trial" was an experiment in name only. Half of a sample of 154 adults (aged 18 to 74) were asked to stop using social media for a week, but there was no monitoring of actual usage. Any change in answering questions about depression was an effect of mood rather than psychological health. The effect on adult mood of being asked to stop using social media for a week tells us nothing about whether social media is bad for the mental health of teenage girls.
None of the remaining experiments measured social media usage and depression. Some of the observational, longitudinal, or experimental studies I ignored because they didn't directly address social media use and depression might have been suggestive ancillary evidence. If Facebook usage or broadband internet access were associated with depression, or if social media use were associated with life dissatisfaction, that would be some indirect evidence that social media use might have a role in teenage girl depression. I have no reason to think these indirect studies were better than the direct ones, but they could be.
If there were a real causal link large enough to explain the increase in teenage girl depression, the direct studies would have produced some signs of it. The details might be murky and conflicting, but there would be some strong statistical results and some common findings of multiple studies using different samples and methodologies. Even if there's lots of solid indirect evidence, the failure to find any good direct evidence is a reason to doubt the claim.
What would it take to provide convincing evidence that social media is responsible for the rise in teenage girl depression? You have to start with a reasonable hypothesis. An example might be, "Toxic social media engagement (TSME) is a major causal factor in teenage girl depression." Of course TSME is hard to measure, or even define. Haidt discusses how it might not even result from an individual using social media, the social media could create a social atmosphere that isolates or traumatizes some non-users.
But any reasonable theory would acknowledge that social media could also have positive psychological effects for some people. Thus, it's not enough to estimate the relation between TSME and depression; we want to know the full range of psychological effects of social media—good and bad. Studying only the bad is a prohibitionist mindset. It leads to proposals to restrict everyone from social media, rather than teasing out who benefits from it and who is harmed.
TSME might—or might not—be correlated with the kinds of things measured in these studies, such as time spent on social media, time spent looking at screens, access to high-speed Internet. The correlation might—or might not—be causal. But we know for sure that self-reported social media screen time cannot cause responses to how often an individual feels sad. So any causal link between TSME and depression cannot run through the measures used in these studies. And given the tenuous relations between the measures used in the studies, they tell us nothing about the link we care about, between TSME and depression.
A strong study would have to include clinically depressed teenage girls who were heavy social media users before they manifested depression symptoms and don't have other obvious depression causes. You can't address this question by looking at self-selected non–social media users who aren't depressed. It would need meaningful measures of TSME, not self-reports of screen time.
The study would also have to have 30 relevant subjects. With fewer, you'd do better to consider each one's story individually, and I don't trust statistical estimates without at least 30 relevant observations.
There are two ways to get 30 subjects. One is to start with one of the huge public health databases with hundreds of thousands of records. But the problem there is that none have the social media detail you need. Perhaps that will change in the next few years.
The other is to identify relevant subjects directly, and then match them to nondepressed subjects of similar age, sex, and other relevant measures. This is expensive and time-consuming, but it's the type of work that psychologists should be doing. This kind of study can produce all sorts of valuable collateral insights you don't get by pointing your canned statistical package to some data you downloaded or created in a toy investigation.
This is illustrated by the story told in Statistics 101 about a guy who dropped his keys on a dark corner, but is looking for them down the block under a street light because the light is better there. We care about teenage girls depressed as a result of social media, but it's a lot easier to study the college kids in your psychology class or random responders to internet surveys.
Most of the studies cited by Haidt express their conclusions in odds ratios—the chance that a heavy social media user is depressed divided by the chance that a nonuser is depressed. I don't trust any area of research where the odds ratios are below 3. That's where you can't identify a statistically meaningful subset of subjects with three times the risk of otherwise similar subjects who differ only in social media use. I don't care about the statistical significance you find; I want clear evidence of a 3–1 effect.
That doesn't mean I only believe in 3–1 or greater effects. If you can show any 3–1 effect, then I'm prepared to consider lower odds ratios. If teenage girls with heavy social media use are three times as likely to be in the experimental group for depression 12 months later than otherwise similar teenage girls that don't use social media, then I'm prepared to look at evidence that light social media use has a 1.2 odds ratio, or that the odds ratio for suicide attempts is 1.4. But without a 3–1 odds ratio as a foundation, it's my experience that looking at any random data can produce plenty of lesser odds ratios, which seldom stand up.
Haidt is a rigorous and honest researcher, but I fear that on this issue he's been captured by a public health mindset. Rather than thinking of free individuals making choices, he's looking for toxins that affect fungible people measured in aggregate numbers. That leads to blaming social problems on bad things rather than looking for the reasons people tend to use those things, with their positive and negative consequences.
It is plausible that social media is a significant factor in the mental health of young people, but almost certainly in complex ways. The fact that both social media and depression among teenage girls began increasing about the same time is a good reason to investigate for causal links. It's obviously good for social media companies to study usage patterns that predict future troubles and for depression researchers to look for commonalities in case histories. A few of the better studies on Haidt's list might provide useful suggestions for these efforts.
But Haidt is making a case based on simplifications and shortcuts of the sort that usually lead to error. They treat individuals as faceless aggregations, which obscures the detail necessary to link complex phenomena like social media use and depression. The studies he cites are cheap and easy to produce, done by researchers who need publications. Where the data used are public or disclosed by the researchers, I can usually replicate them in under an hour. The underlying data was generally chosen for convenience—already compiled for other reasons or studying handy people rather than relevant ones—and the statistical analyses were cookbook recipes rather than thoughtful data analyses.
The observation that most published research findings are false is not a reason to ignore academic literature. Rather, it means you should start by finding at least one really good study with a clear strong result and focus precisely on what you care about. Often, weaker studies that accumulate around that study can provide useful elaboration and confirmation. But weak studies and murky results with more noise than signal can't be assembled into convincing cases. It's like trying to build a house out of plaster with no wood or metal framing.
It's only the clarity of his thought and his openness that makes Haidt vulnerable to this critique. Many experts only reference the support for their claims in general terms, or provide lists of references in alphabetical order by author instead of the logical arrangements Haidt provides. That allows them to dismiss criticisms of individual studies as cherry-picking by the critic. Another popular tactic is to couch unjustified assumptions in impenetrable jargon, and to obscure the underlying logic of claims.
On the other hand, I think I am delivering a positive message. It's good news that something as popular and cherished as social media is not clearly indicted as a destroyer of mental health. I have no doubt that it's bad for some people, but to find out more we have to identify those people and talk to them. We need to empower them and let them describe their problems from their own perspectives. We don't have to restrict social media for everyone based on statistical aggregations.
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"Studes show..." effects of social media, gun violence, human trafficking, the effectiveness of paper masks, vaping; I could go on and on.
Social media takes the “social” out of while increasing human interaction exponentially. This has both benefits and drawbacks.
It increases shared speech both truth and lies while all but eliminating the threats of those who would censor views.
As I’m sure you could attest, when surrounded by bigotry it’s easier to be a bigot.
For youth, forming a world view with principles in this age of unprecedented communication is far more complex than it was for the greatest generation.
Is this how you rationalize your antisemitism?
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Huh? or should it be: WTF?
so the issue is correlated with no real proof of causation. That may be true, but only an idiot thinks they are unrelated.
I don’t disagree but look around. There’s no shortage of idiots who are bigots refusing to consider counter arguments, claiming what they can’t prove and denying what they can’t refute with correctly applied logic and science.
People need direction. Criminalize lying.
Right, like pink flamingoes really are related to cancer.
I can think of one way they might be strongly related, but with the causation running the other way from what people assume: If no one who can see you wants anything to do with you, you are likely to become a heavy user of social media or other things on the internet.
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"Academics face strong career pressures to publish flawed research." Well, no, they don't. They face strong career pressures to publish, and as a result, they may publish flawed results.
Most of the distraught young men and women (from mid-teens to 30s) have woke-sick progressive mothers.
... and you found out how?
Now go see Ron Bailey and explain Climate Change models to him
Thanks; somehow left that out of my list of bogus "studies"
The last article of Aaron Brown's Reason published is about Climate Change. Probably worth a read if you didn't catch it the first time.
Does it call out AGW as politically motivated pseudoscience?
It's mostly about the dishonesty of attacks on dissenters (i.e. "deniers"), but does point out that a lot of the science is bunk.
The Statistically Flawed Evidence That Social Media Is Causing the Teen Mental Health Crisis
So... at least we agree there's a Teen mental health crisis.
On a semi-serious note, while I think that Haidt’s heart is in the right place, I have issues with his theories and I think he does put way too much emphasis on the technology.
What we have is a crisis of failed institutions at large, which include parenting and the Educational Industrial Complex.
"What we have is a crisis of failed institutions at large, which include parenting and the Educational Industrial Complex."
Agree here. Social media is just throwing gas on the dumpster fire that is shitty parenting, shitty education, and a morally bankrupt culture.
A bunch of kids on Tumblr decide they're "moon gender". Who cares? But when they show up to the hospital demanding a hysterectomy, the hospital isn't supposed to ask if they'd like a mastectomy with it at the drive-thru.
Exactly. I don’t care if people want to play pretend. But it’s a problem when a bunch of retarded democrats (oxymoron?) try to force everyone to humor them through laws and regulations. Or even physical threats through law enforcement.
"retarded democrats (oxymoron?)"
'redundant' is what you were looking for
Social media is indeed an accelerant by which everything becomes a dumpster fire.
"Reputation destruction scales on the internet"
It's a serious education problem. The educational establishments have been captured by people who think the status quo is terrible, that the world is teetering on the brink of collapse, that hatred and bigotry are at all-time highs (which is utterly laughable if they knew an inkling of history), and that radical change is needed. That burden is being forced upon children who need some affirmation that the world isn't that bad, that they absolutely can succeed if they work hard and set goals, and that not every negative feeling they have is the result of something structurally wrong with them or the world.
That burden is being forced upon children
^
Not just the burden of the world supposedly being so terrible and doomed, but that the kids are the ones responsible for righting it.
"Be a Change Maker!"
"Children are the Future!"
"Change the Whole World All By Yourself or We're All Doomed!"
Weird that kids feel like they're under overwhelming pressure these days.
I believe that is one of the core reasons that history is no longer emphasized in school. History doesn’t repeat itself but it does rhyme
History raises awkward questions like howcum the liquidity crisis in America right after China expelled British India's opium wholesalers? Why did Indian Mutinies coincide with Opium Wars? Why did Balkan and World War promptly follow China's collectivist 1911 revolution? Why did foreign money flee These States in 1929 when the League Opium Advisory Committee urged global economic planning and a One World police state in September? Why did Germany collapse again when this plan made it the guinea pig in June 1931?
"So… at least we agree there’s a Teen mental health crisis."
What generation DOESN'T have a teen mental health crisis? Easy poll: ask how many parents think their kids are pretty-much cuckoo. Yeah, okay, that's a bit glib. On the other hand, I remember when my entire generation was having a "mental health crisis."
My generation's "mental health crisis" was we felt "dissed" by society and our preferred career choice was working in a coffee shop and being in a band. There wasn't any life-altering surgery involved, followed by a suicide.
Parents (all too often) forget that becoming a teenager means discovering sex, drugs, unacceptable music, the fact that society isn't fair, that some people suck, etc., etc. And every generation of teens finds this out for the very first time in history!
Yeah, but for most of history teens also got a good dose of reality by their mid to late teen years.
"Yeah, but for most of history teens also got a good dose of reality by their mid to late teen years."
True. And, until recently, most people, after leaving their "teen years," were trying to get into the workforce, which was not an easy task. I got my first real job at seventeen, a summer job working for the BofA. Now, more and more kids are attending college, which sort of keeps them "teenagers" until their early 20's. Some do work their way through, or at least contribute, but even then, it takes longer to "grow up" in this society that it did a even just a couple of generations ago.
All those other times did it include a medical industry, a political industry, and media all applauding of those issues?
"All those other times did it include a medical industry, a political industry, and media all applauding of those issues?"
Actually, yes. There is somewhat easier access to "alternative" viewpoints today, but they have always been there. Arguably, the MSM was much MORE in control of what was being said.
Bullshit, which mental health crisis of the past were the media, politicians and other institutions openly applauding?
"Bullshit, which mental health crisis of the past were the media, politicians and other institutions openly applauding?"
I was actually referring to "crises" in general. These days, with the more "established" MSM being seriously threatened by all the alternative sources available, they are pushing hard to publicize the more "fringe-ey" aspects of whatever is happening, in an effort to maintain their viewership/readership levels (and profits). In other words, everything is a "crisis" about to consume all of humanity. In the past, it was more along the line of "social crises," you know, how the hippies were going to destroy (or save) America, (though most of us grew up to be insurance brokers and the like.)
And every generation of teens finds this out for the very first time in history!
Because the institutions used to train them out of their teenagerdom. Now they encourage it.
See, I think this is the bigger point. Industry has allowed the teenager mindset to continue through adulthood.
"Because the institutions used to train them out of their teenagerdom. Now they encourage it"
I think it's rather more complex than that. It's more difficult for teens to get a part-time job, or a summer job, these days than when I was growing up. "Making a living," even if mostly symbolic (at that age), stands as a major step to being an independent adult. Also, most parents want to see their kids go to college. Both of these factors contribute to a delay in the "growing up" of kids, since they are more dependent for longer (or at least partially-dependent for longer) on their families for support.
Perhaps the institutions are just a reflection of what most parents' desire for their kids?
But the question is how does the dependency occur? If it's inevitable dependency, whereby the kid is unable to participate in the world to learn how to grow up until much later in life, then that's one thing.
But it appears more of a chosen sheltering of kids for way too long to the point that even when they get to the "adulthood" portion of life, they still behave like teenagers, which then in turn, results in the "adulthood" institution allowing the behavior to continue.
"But it appears more of a chosen sheltering of kids for way too long to the point that even when they get to the “adulthood” portion of life, they still behave like teenagers, which then in turn, results in the “adulthood” institution allowing the behavior to continue."
And that is also a good question! And certainly, it would vary with the general type of institution, and also with the particulars of the individual institution.
And every generation of teens finds this out for the very first time in history!
In just the same way that each new crop of 40-somethings looks back at the 20-somethings and says "look how narcissistic and lazy the current generation is!"
To be fair, each generation on the whole is more lazy and narcissistic than the one before. That is due to the gains made generation over generation most of the time though.
"To be fair, each generation on the whole is more lazy and narcissistic than the one before. That is due to the gains made generation over generation most of the time though."
Yeah. It's also compounded by the fact that most parents want their kids to do better than they did, and will spare little in expense to see that happen, even if it tends to delay "adulthood" (whatever that is lol).
It’s also compounded by the fact that most parents want their kids to do better than they did
This is a real problem. I used to work for an immigrant who started his company when he arrived in NYC and was living in an apartment with eight other guys. By the time I knew him, he was fairly well off and was spoiling his kids rotten because he didn't want them to be deprived like he had been.
The trouble was that his kids were spoiled, lazy, self-centered brats who expected to never have to work for anything, and by the time he realized what he had done, it was too late.
"This is a real problem."
Indeed. An uncle of my wife, immigrated from Jordan in the fifties, with literally about $50. He was sponsored by his brother. He passed a couple of years ago. He managed to acquire, over the years two apartment houses, a warehouse, a forty-foot yacht, a fleet of vehicles, and a condo in Miami. His kids did "okay," but nothing like the success he had. In this case, however, I don't think they were all that spoiled -- just perhaps not as motivated.
It's a different playing field now too. There's been an awful lot of inflation and the forking over of the funds that formed that inflation to the politically connected, since the fifties. It's a hell of a lot harder to acquire multiple buildings when you're bidding against folks who get handed billions by the Federal Reserve.
To be fair, each generation on the whole is more lazy and narcissistic than the one before.
I think that is probably fair, but as you note, it's really a very-long term incremental thing rather than "kids these days."
I've been re-reading Caesar's account of his conquests in Gaul, and it's sort of striking how the more northerly tribes that didn't trade with Rome were disgusted by the laziness and pleasure-seeking of the more southerly tribes that did, and viewed Rome as a morally corrupting influence because of it.
I cheekily brought up Plato's Socratic criticisms of the act of writing below, but as a guy who was on Conversations with Coleman recently observed, Socrates/Plato was/were probably right, ultimately - we did lose a lot of mental faculties when we started relying on writing, but we also gained a lot that we didn't have before - there's almost always a trade-off.
The natural tendency is probably to indulge your own narcissism and laziness until reality deprives you of that ability.
"The natural tendency is probably to indulge your own narcissism and laziness until reality deprives you of that ability."
Very well said.
Thanks!
++
"'look how narcissistic and lazy the current genera'tion is!”
So you noticed that, too?
As a Gen-Xer I particularly enjoyed watching the season of Survivor where they had "Gen X" vs. "Millennials" where both groups kept talking about how Gen-X has this work ethic that's not really with us anymore (with the Millennials, of course, taking the tone that these expectations of have to "work" were a little silly).
Remind what our 'generation-defining' movie was?
"Slacker." Interesting. For mine it was likely "Easy Rider."
Crises are necessary for politicians to accomplish their aims. That is why they never let one go to waste, and if necessary, create them.
Yeppers
But back then our mental stressors were local. We didn't have a social media platform that brought everyone's problems to our face.
“We didn’t have a social media platform that brought everyone’s problems to our face.”
I “teened up” in the sixties. Somehow we, too, had way more than a few problems “brought to our face.” Even without electronic social media.
I teened up in the '80s, but I remember quite clearly television being to blame for why both your and my generations sucked.
"I teened up in the ’80s, but I remember quite clearly television being to blame for why both your and my generations sucked."
It's always something. In the 50's, it was beer, rock-and-roll, and the '57 Chevy. And "The Twist." Later, it was pot and VW Bugs. Then it was "heavy metal." And the radio... always that horrible, corrupting music on the radio. How did anyone survive?
Teens are always moody and prone to depression, but when does that reach the level of crisis? If it's the norm it can't really be a crisis, can it?
Seems to me we've now come to the point of somehow trying to celebrate and encourage teenage angst and awkwardness rather than seeing it as just a weird phase that a lot of people go through.
Yeppers!
It's probably worse for teen girls, too. Everything is going great, and then you reach a certain age and your hormones are out of whack once a month, you're bleeding from awkward places for days, and you get all kinds of cramps and bloating.
Is it a mental health crisis when the roots are in basic biology?
"Is it a mental health crisis when the roots are in basic biology?"
Excellent question!
Everything is going great, and then you reach a certain age and your hormones are out of whack once a month, you’re bleeding from awkward places for days, and you get all kinds of cramps and bloating.
Meanwhile the boys are still running around blissfully in denial about approaching adulthood.
Not hard to see why when they're offered the option "would you like to be a boy instead?" that they seriously entertain the notion.
Yup. Given all this, why wouldn't girls want to be put on hormone blockers? They can just stop having periods? Sounds awesome to them, I'm sure.
Seems to me we’ve now come to the point of somehow trying to celebrate and encourage teenage angst and awkwardness rather than seeing it as just a weird phase that a lot of people go through.
And pathologizing it, which I think has a lot to do with "rising rates of [diagnosed] depression and anxiety."
I remember this going back at least as far as the late '80s with those commercials for rehab camps that would start with "are you seeing sudden changes in your teenager? Are they making friends with people you don't approve of? Are they suddenly moody and angry at unpredictable times? Have they recently started wearing strange clothes and wanting to dye their hair? We're here to help!"
Even at the time I couldn't help but think "all of this is 100% normal teenager behavior."
"'Even at the time I couldn’t help but think “all of this is 100% normal teenager behavior.”'
++
Isn't that a significant part of parenting? You can't medicate maturity, dealing with conflict, being teased for being fat, and a whole multitude of things kids deal with. There is likely less quality parenting going on than ever before which greatly exaggerates the struggles of many teens.
"Isn’t that a significant part of parenting? You can’t medicate maturity, dealing with conflict, being teased for being fat, and a whole multitude of things kids deal with. There is likely less quality parenting going on than ever before which greatly exaggerates the struggles of many teens."
While I am not sure how widespread "poor-quality parenting" actually is, it certainly is a factor. I am thinking the shrinking family size has something to do with it, as well.
I think the fact that they are able to find "friends" that they will never meet that can be very influential is not a great thing for many kids. It's not necessarily anyone's fault, but some kids are way more susceptible to outside influence, and some of them have way less support at home and school to learn to cope with things. As a parent of teens and one in her 20's, there are a lot of difficult days on both sides, but if nobody is there to be the adult, the consequences are harder to avoid.
Certainly a valid observation, methinks.
patient: I believe I'm St. Jerome.
Mental health professional: *slams down notepad* Well, let's see what we can do to affirm that.
Mental health professional, after reconsidering, picks the notepad back up and writes: "He is delusional. I know, because I am St. Jerome."
No exaggeration, this is probably the best article I've read anywhere on the internet in the past month. Utterly fantastic, well reasoned, well-argued, well researched. Articles like this are literally why we put so much value on teaching children to read, so they can access this level of information. All the plaudits and praises for this one.
+
Yeah. Great article. He even includes discussion on p hacking. Something I had to inform Jeff about a few years ago as he loves posting flawed studies to "prove" his assertions.
I'm just waiting for Sarc or someone to post that all we do is complain about the writers here. That's what ENB believes, anyway. I'm guessing she never scanned the comments on a Nancy Rommelman story.
Well this is one of the articles actually critical to a narrative and dove into the information instead of linking to people who support the narratives to defend narratives. Reason needs more of this. Being critical.
++
word.
Agree; I printed it out so I could underline and make margin notes. He brings up a host of fallacies and errors that are all too common in research, especially in the social sciences.
Unfortunately, all that is needed for policy makers to jump on it as infallible "truth" is a catchy headline. If you do not agree, you must certainly hate children.
Absolutely.
Yes and No.
He says:
My table below, derived from the data reported in the paper, is the percentage of people in each cross-tabulation, minus what would be expected by random chance if social media use were unrelated to depression.
But he does not show what he subtracted or give an inkling of how he might have derived it. Shoddy.
And he does not discuss the correlation between the very sharp rise in teen depression/mental issues and the advent of social media feedback - the "like" button. In most discussions this is the key feature that drives people to engage more deeply in social media, positive reinforcement. Humans crave that.
I give him a B-. Excellent effort, but thinly supported.
>>teen girl mental health crisis.
you're not hot enough to monetize. every boy on earth can pretend to be you and get even more attention. you're not intersectional. the planet will melt in five years. words are violence. all contact is rape.
And everyone on the planet is contacting you to tell you all about it.
A little wordy for you dill, but spot on!
This study is based on 143 undergraduates participating for psychology course credits. This type of data is as low quality as the random email surveys used in the first study cited. The subjects are generally familiar with the type of study and may know or guess its purposes—in some cases they may have even discussed ongoing results in class.
And this can't be emphasized enough. Psychology undergraduates WANT to help the study. And the types of questions they are asked to respond to in self-reports provide significant hints about the aims of the study, so they will help push the study toward confirmation of the hypothesis. Often, they're immersed in that world and already know what the hypothesis is, especially when it's one relating to public health or social engineering. They're going to be completely on board with proving the hypothesis because that justifies the career field they're invested in. It's like a survey of union leadership asking how important the role of unions is, it's going to be self-affirming. There's no controls in these types of things to search for people who are intentionally manipulating the data and that makes it worthless.
"Psychology undergraduates WANT to help the study. "
They also do it for free and represent a small disproportionate section of society at large. Better, bigger studies require more funding, more staff, unfortunately. Doing things on the cheap has its limitations, statistical and otherwise.
They also do it for free and represent a small disproportionate section of society at large. Better, bigger studies require more funding, more staff, unfortunately. Doing things on the cheap has its limitations, statistical and otherwise.
^
This is part of the unhealthy incentives that the article references - in order to get and keep a job as a professor, you need to produce studies. As many as you humanly can.
The institution needs to produce studies, and those studies need to be regarded as solid. But they don't actually have the funding to do proper studies.
The predictable result is that low-quality studies get churned out in high volume and the appetite for really digging into the studies with a critical eye isn't really there.
A large part of the issue is nobody will publish negative findings, at least most of the well known journals. This despite the fact that showing failed tests will stop the tests being repeated in the future. P hacking plays a huge part in finding any positive relationship in order to get published.
Yes, that's true. But researchers need to understand that at the end of a well-done study, saying, "We've found no significant relationship between the variables" is a completely acceptable result. It provides significantly to the discourse, even if your study somehow is just an outlier and every other study finds a significant relationship. But it's become commonplace to decide that anything which fails to prove the hypothesis is a waste of money.
Professors are judged by article citations.
Neutral studies rarely get cited. But say the sky is yellow or that a boy can become a girl and people will cite you over and over again.
A large part of the issue is nobody will publish negative findings
And as a corollary, no one is interested in repeating someone else's experiment to verify that it is repeatable. All of the incentives work against it, really.
"P hacking plays a huge part in finding any positive relationship in order to get published."
Yeah, true all too often. I took just enough statistics in college to be able to at least spot it.
It’s common sense that girls get depressed reading social media. That’s the point: their depression makes them vulnerable, resentful, and looking for someone to blame, while right wing radicals and Russian bots fill their feeds with worthy scapegoats: racial minorities, lgbtq, social healthcare, abortion providers, etc. and thus misinformation, disinformation, and the newly discovered malinformation taint their minds and destroy our democracy.
This is information warfare. Who’s side are you on?
Thanks for illustrating a concept we refer to as "Confirmation bias."
"It’s common sense that girls get depressed reading social media. "
Maybe so, but difficult to prove with surveys and statistical studies. Depression is a profoundly personal phenomenon and hard to capture with the tools that Haidt is using.
And that’s why we need universal mental health coverage.
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OBL2?
Many strive to imitate OBL; few, if any, succeed.
"And that’s why we need universal mental health coverage."
That's what prisons are for. Some 20% of the prisoners on the planet are in American prisons. Clearly, it's still not enough. We need to put more depressed teen girls behind bars.
That’s what prisons are for.
Unfortunately, you're basically right. It's very, very important for people to realize that when they advocate for government-provided mental health care, that what they're in practice advocating is imprisoning the mentally ill, like we used to.
Excuse me, but I think you meant to say we desperately need prison reform in this country, since it disproportionately impacts black and brown bodies.
Prison should be reserved for the most heinous crimes: murder, rape, insurrections like 1/6, and tax evasion.
We should consider certain environmental crimes.
Prison should be reserved for the most heinous crimes: murder, rape, insurrections like 1/6, and tax evasion.
Don't forget miscategorized business expenses!
The mischaracterization of politically motivated expenses as “legal fees” is the worst violation of business ethics in my lifetime. A new low for the United States, as far as I’m concerned.
The new OBL!
Congrats!
"Excuse me, but I think you meant to say we desperately need prison reform in this country, "
Reform? Reform? Aren't things bad enough already? To quote, I think, the Duke of Marlborough. No, I'm not advocating prison reform. I've said it before, close half the prisons and convert them into hospitals. Hospitals have their drawbacks, but ask any prisoner, a spell in a hospital is like taking a vacation.
Sorry, no. We almost lost our democracy in 2021. Someone needs to go to jail.
The walls are closing in.
Now, closing some of the jails for labor camps… as long as you’re sending the right people.
"We" white lamb? Lemme guess... the WRONG half of the looter Kleptocracy got voted political jobs and the power to enforce their wishes at gunpoint?
close half the prisons and convert them into hospitals
Except that the only difference between a prison and a government-run mental health facility is the sign on the outside of the building. And the fact that prisoners have rights.
Trust the science.
That's what Trofim said.
In this case, no. I'm not sure science has much to tell us about teenage depression and its causes. You probably can find out more by studying the lyrics of pop songs. Or how about this? Talking to depressed teenagers.
"Or how about this? Talking to depressed teenagers."
But that would mean doing actual WORK. Geesh!!
"Peer review is worse than useless, better at enforcing conventional wisdom and discouraging skepticism than weeding out substandard or fraudulent work."
The "worse than" part is that peer reviewers frequently support each others' submissions in a "one hand washes the other" symbiosis, not just rejecting new findings that cut against the grain. I used to subscribe to "Skeptical Inquirer" until they became shills for woke scientism.
Well just take a look at what happens to such reviewers who dare to question orthodoxy. They could learn a bit from Galileo.
Can anyone name something that is dangerous compared to Christian National Socialism? to other altruist brainwashing? to prohibitionist fanaticism?
If you are asking the question "does social media use cause depression", then you need to compare non-social media users with social media users.
It is also incorrect to say that absence of statistical significance amounts to absence of evidence.
How about some strong evidence that social media is NOT causing the teen mental health crisis? Because, even in the absence of strong evidence, social media remains a primary suspect.
Academic standards indeed are quite low these days.
“How about some strong evidence that social media is NOT causing the teen mental health crisis?”
The person making the assertion bears the burden of proof. It is not everybody else’s obligation to disprove it.
I really thought this was common knowledge. It's so engrained in our society that it's the basis of our criminal justice system. Nobody should have to prove they didn't commit a crime, it must be proven they did.
Criminal, civil, legislative, scientific, philosophical, and interpersonal standards of evidence and burdens of proof are, in fact, all different from one another.
Okay, so you're just being intentionally obtuse. Got it.
No it's not obtuse, courts require proof of guilt. Mathematics also requires proof. Science is not so demanding. Preponderance of evidence is all you need. The introduction of social media in 2008 seems to coincide with an increase of mental issues in young people. I don't think the nature of the connection is clear, but it's reasonable to investigate. I don't see the impulse here in the comments to deny any connection.
I'm afraid it's you who is being intentionally obtuse. Unless you actually do run your own personal life like a criminal trial 24/7. In that case, I just have pity for you.
So, you assert that social media are harmless to kids. Where is your evidence? You bear the burden of proof!
So, you assert that social media are harmless to kids.
Still asking for proof of a negative.
You're confusing a philosophical principle about abstractions with straightforward statistical questions.
The question we have is whether social media have caused the rise in mental problems (depression, gender dysphoria, eating disorders, etc.). This is a binary choice, with neither choice privileged over the other. Neither choice is "positive' or "negative".
This is a binary choice
Correct. And your choices are "yes, we can prove that social media has caused a rise in mental problems" and "no, we can not prove this."
False. There are, in fact, three choices:
- we can show that social media has caused a rise in mental problems among teenagers
- we can show that social media has not caused a rise in mental problems among teenagers
- we cannot show either of those two propositions
If that's too difficult to grasp, consider the proposition "SC is at home". There are three possibilities:
- we can show that SC is at home
- we can show that SC is not at home (e.g., by showing that SC is somewhere else or by checking his entire home)
- we lack the information to determine which of the two is true
We can find proof with one example. Anyone who has used social media and ended up being convinced to meet up with someone and trafficked.
I would also include the rise of transgenderism followed by the increased regret rates in that community.
We can find proof with one example. Anyone who has used social media and ended up being convinced to meet up with someone and trafficked.
Which proves that this individual could have been trafficked in no other way? That social media in fact caused the trafficking, rather than the actions of the traffickers?
Re-state it:
Hypothesis: Social media consumption is safe and beneficial to young people.
How about some strong evidence that social media is NOT causing the teen mental health crisis?
Because you can't prove a negative. You don't start with the assumption that something is the case when you can't find evidence of it, you start with the null assumption.
Beyond that, the assumption that social media is the culprit is the impetus for certain actions be taken. The very minimal required before asking for actions be taken is a bit of proof that they're targeting an actual problem. We should never "Do something" just for the sake of doing something, we should have some reasonable theory that it will be successful.
"It is also incorrect to say that absence of statistical significance amounts to absence of evidence."
My response: "Huh?"
Thank you for addressing that.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's a simple fact that your data can contain strong evidence for a difference, yet your statistical significance test is simply not capable of picking it up.
Either social media are responsible for the rise in mental problems in teenagers or not. There is no positive/negative there. There is no default position. These are simply two alternative statements.
And there you choose a default position based on a policy preference, not a logical principle.
But we frequently choose the default position that we restrict something unless it demonstrably does not cause significant harm. For example, that's the criterion we use for approving drugs, and it is also something we could apply to children.
NOYB2 - what learning, experience and expertise do YOU have in statistics and epidemiology? What criteria do you use to evaluate purported scientific data? What criteria do you use to evaluate cause and effect in correlated findings? When we know these things about you, then and only then can we take your assertion of low standards at NYU and UCSD seriously.
I couldn't care less whether you take me seriously.
That's a GOOD thing! 🙂
Feel free to chime in again when you are ready to engage in rational discussions.
That WAS rational discussion. So you know nothing whatever about statistics or epidemiology, yet you feel qualified to criticize the quality of an instructor of, and expert in, statistics on the faculty of two prestigious universities.
It stopped being a rational discussion when you made it clear that all you cared about was credentials.
"If you are asking the question “does social media use cause depression”, then you need to compare non-social media users with social media users."
That's going to be difficult or impossible unless you go to the sequestered Amish or similar. Social media is too pervasive and its themes and pressures and existence also permeate traditional media. The jury pool (subject set) is tainted.
I was born in 1958, the tail end of the moral panic over the comic books that were destroying the lives of young people - a moral panic that was supported by alleged “scientific evidence.”
I was recently reminded that ten years before my birth there was a moral panic over the pinball machines that were also destroying the lives of young people. I am confident there was “scientific evidence” to support that moral panic as well.
In the 1960’s and 1970’s it was television that was destroying the lives of young people. In the 1980’s it was rock music lyrics and video game arcades. In the 1990’s it was home video games and the internet. In the 2000’s it was cellphones. About 10 years before social media began “destroying” the lives of teenage girls, I was told that text messaging was “destroying” their lives. In each case, those raising the alarm could point to “scientific evidence” to support their fears.
Forgive me for being cynical about this, but it seems that anything that becomes popular among teenagers automatically becomes identified as an existential threat to humanity.
^
Very good article.
it seems that anything that becomes popular among teenagers automatically becomes identified as an existential threat to humanity
In Plato's time it was this new-fangled "writing" thingy.
It has been my experience that social reformers tend to allege that "scientists say" when that option is available to them; and they tend to claim common sense ("it stands to reason!") when they can't find any scientists willing to sell out in support of social reform.
And perhaps there's something to it: single motherhood, drug addiction, child mental illness, violence, etc.
In the decades that I have lived in the US, the country has turned from an achievement-oriented society with one of the best education systems in the world into a progressive sh*thole with dumb-as-rocks high school graduates.
E.g.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2011/04/08/teen-moms-just-a-small-part-of-single-mothers/
“And perhaps there’s something to it: single motherhood, drug addiction, child mental illness, violence, etc.”
Of course, none of those social ills existed before 1960, did they?
Not in the numbers we see today, to the best of my knowledge. But maybe it was just better hidden.
Not as statistically high as in the 60s and 70s. It actually was a bit of a cultural meltdown. Though I’m more apt to blame the Great Society and such before comic books.
I blame affluence. When people have to struggle just a bit in order to survive, they tend to focus on reality. When the society becomes wealthy, people start forgetting about what it takes to produce the wealth, start to take it for granted and start "visualize world peace" despite lots of evidence that it doesn't take much for the magic to start unraveling.
I'm not endorsing any one of those theories. I'm just saying that Number2 can't just dismiss them with the implication that "people warned about it, but nothing happened".
In fact, US society has been going down the drain by lots of objective measures, and that does require explanations.
When it comes to teenage girl mental health, social networks are legitimately at the top of the list of suspects, both because of timing, and because there are at least tentative results suggesting that they are partly responsible.
They have experienced massive increases. Even more if you break things up by demographics.
I'm saying that "people warned about X destroying lives in the 1960's but it was a false alarm" is nonsense because on numerous measures, US society has been getting steadily worse over the past 60 years.
Whether the deterioration is due to the specific factors people warned about decades ago is another question. But you can't dismiss their hypothesis by implying nothing happened, because a lot has, in fact, gone wrong.
"US society has been getting steadily worse over the past 60 years."
Not worse if women's control over their sexuality is concerned. Same for their ability to take part in the economy. You need to broaden your scope and stop being so glum. Not everyone's lot in life has got worse. If yours has, look to your own actions and decisions rather than blaming society.
We're talking about single motherhood, drug addiction, child mental illness, violence. The have change greatly since the 1960's in a way that is conventionally considered worse. And that is likely linked to changes in available communications and entertainment options, among other things.
You are asserting a deterioration that is not happening. When you assert something the burden of proof is on you. So far the only evidence that mental health is deteriorating in America is that scientists say so. If you had actually read the article in detail, it’s the same pseudo-scientists who are claiming that their pseudo-experiments are objective evidence of their claims when they do not (circular reasoning). In fact, there is no direct objective evidence that “depression” even exists except in the minds of the pre-scientific practitioners struggling to even define “disease” in their chosen field, let alone evidence that it is better, worse or unchanged over time. When you are in the early stages of a new science (i.e. psychology/psychiatry) just beginning to classify what is being studied (spectrum of symptoms grouped into syndromes) and flinging treatments and medication modalities at anything and everything to see what sticks, you should not be allowed to have major input into public policy decisions!
You can look up the statistics for single motherhood, drug addiction, child mental illness, violence yourself. For mental illness in particular, look at the statistics for ADHD, autism, anorexia, depression, gender dysphoria, suicide rates, mental health spending, etc.
Number2’s implied argument was that “people warned about all this stuff and nothing happened”, and that’s wrong. These statistics did change, and they changed in roughly the way people predicted.
It’s fine if you have other explanations (like "it's all a reporting and classification artifact"), but Number2’s argument is, in any case, invalid.
The Draft, enslavement to murder abroad, shooting people over sticks, seeds and plant leaves, televangelist whack jobs taking over the airwaves and funnelling tithes into electing pinheads... Only the active draft is different from today, but youths are still forced to register for enslavement by politicians.
I remember how television destroyed my life in the 1970's. Then music television destroyed it again in the 1980's. I stopped watching television in 1995 after I got married. That's when the real destruction began.
I remember finding "The Velvet Underground" in the school library, and not understanding why the Island of Lesbos was Gomorrah. In another, "Seduction of the Innocent" a German brainwashee recycled old Christian National Socialist rants against Jews and blamed the usual ills on comics, handlebar-mounted BB machineguns and impiety.
Everyone knows it is not social media, it's video games.
No, wait. It wasn't video games, it was plain old TV.
No, wait. It wasn't plain old TV, it was rock and roll on the radio.
No, wait. It wasn't rock and roll on the radio, it was comic books.
No, wait. It wasn't comic books, it was pinball machines.
No, wait. It wasn't pinball machines, it was pool halls.
Actually, it's not the teen mental health crisis, it's the teens driving their parents crazy.
"Actually, it’s not the teen mental health crisis,"
What surprised me is that the author seems to accept that there is a teenage mental health crisis, and social media does have some role, though the studies that purport to show it are flawed. This is another case of 'more studies are needed.'
Well, US society has demonstrably deteriorated dramatically over the last half century. That's quantifiable and if you glibly dismiss it, you're just a fool
Nobody claims that the factors you list above are the sole causes, but they each likely contributed. They all probably have some underlying root causes.
"Nobody claims that the factors you list above are the sole causes,"
Maybe Marshal McLuhan would. He's the guy that coined the slogan 'the medium is the message.'
The predominant medium we use shapes the way we communicate and society as a whole. It could be that the use of the internet lays the ground for depression in young people, some of them at least.
"Well, US society has demonstrably deteriorated dramatically over the last half century. "
Empires rise and empires fall. The great wheel of karma. Nothing you can do about so don't go beating yourself up over it and blaming yourself for America's fall. We had a damn good run. Give thanks for that.
I'm not beating myself up over it. I'm going to retire in some nice place and live better than 99% of Americans for the next few decades.
But this stuff isn't inevitable. In terms of economic, social, and demographic fundamentals, the US is still in the best position in the world. The deterioration of the US is purely the result of ignorance and bad political choices.
It is one thing to show a correlation between two factors, like social media use and depression, but it is an entirely different matter to show cause and effect. Are these young ladies depressed because of using social media, or are they using social media because they are depressed for some other reason? I think the main reason so many young are depressed is because they are being raised by people with no vested interest in their futures, rather than by their parents. Studies have shown that children raised by their parents rather than baby sitters or child care facilities tend to wind up in better shape than those who are not.
The rise in their depression rates coincided with the appearance of social media and their increased usage. That's a pretty strong indication of cause and effect.
That may be another contributing factor, but that occurred before social media.
Maybe this is why no comparison of states that deperson and enslave versus states that enforce individual rights of women is anywhere mentioned.
It's not media, it's public education. "Humans suck and are killing the planet," is a pretty crappy outlook and kids now get force-fed it daily from K to 12. That constant fear causes neuroses is not a new discovery and should not surprise anybody. My grandma saved used foil for 60 years, long after the war had ended, because she was assured it was a heroic sacrifice that saved soldiers lives. The social panic ends, but the neurosis never leaves you.
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We put 6 year olds on Ritalin. We remove young women's ovaries and put them on massive doses of testosterone (roid rage) then other psychotropic drugs to counter the damage those drugs do, then we wonder why kids have mental problems!
We tell some kids they are oppressed and can never succeed.
We tell other kids they are oppressors and irredeemable.
We tell boys they are girls and girls they are boys, just born in the wrong body.
We tell boys they are toxic because they are masculine.
We tell girls that like boys all boys are rapist.
We tell girls they have no responsibility in sex and pregnancy, it is all the boys fault, but if you do get pregnant you can just kill your baby and will never regret or have negative consequences from that.
We tell young girls they can have it all, which is a lie, no one can ever have it all.
I wonder why these kids are confused and depressed?
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Just because the looter governments of Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi , Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee and Texas now compete with Madagascar, Angola, Communist and Fascist Congo, Gabon, Senegal, Mauritania, Iraq, Suriname, Nicaragua, Honduras, Laos and the Philippines to see which can deprive more young women of individual personhood there's depression? Why should anyone--aside from the victims depersoned and enslaved --be depressed?
Deprive young women of individual personhood? Victims depersoned and enslaved? Where do you come up with this shit Libertarianmasturbater? Women in the west in general, and in the U.S. in particular, have never had it better than any time in history but you whine like they're an oppressed majority. Are you a woman or a cuck? because you come off as their self appointed defender. Maybe if some women took personal responsibility and used birth control or better yet closed their legs and stopped being whores, they wouldn't have to kill their children in the womb. Now, let's see how many times you can overuse the term "Girl-bullying" in subsequent post's? I'm sure it will be too many to count. My goodness you're fucking ponderous.
Taking a cue from Aaron Brown, I should expect Brown's conclusions to be more false than correct....
Blame Social Media? Why not blame the government censors pushing narratives that cause the problems?
When you’re fed a bunch of BS and kept in the dark, you’re nothing more than a mushroom. It is very depressing to realize what you’ve been fed, and that the government is gaslighting you, so they can steal your freedoms, and get rich from your work, like with slavery.
Jesus! If I wanted to be bored to death by a lecture on statistics, I wouldn't have dropped out of college.
Retired statistician and retired psychologist here. I agree that related research studies lack proper controls, design, etc., but obviously we need to deal with many of the negative aspects of social media, hopefully, through proper research. I've referenced your articles here: https://actionablecommonsense.wordpress.com/2022/12/06/firearms-reform-societal-reform/