Why Won't Maryland Sell Me a Goddamn Beer?
Maryland bars and restaurants have a tendency to turn away vertical ID holders. But there's no state law mandating this.

A few weeks ago, I learned the hard way just how easily government regulations can ruin a good night out.
Some friends and I had decided to drive an hour or so outside D.C. to visit Annapolis, Maryland. We were eager to go barhopping but quickly ran into trouble: Being over 21 and having valid identification to prove it wouldn't be enough to actually get us alcohol.
As it turned out, a few of us—me included, unfortunately—had vertical driver's licenses. After sitting down at a local restaurant, our waiter told us this meant he couldn't serve us. He insisted that Maryland law barred serving alcohol to anyone who tries to buy it with a vertical ID.
"He was very adamant about Maryland only accepting vertical IDs, despite my previous experience to the contrary," said Jack Bailey, a friend of mine who was there that night. "I've been to plenty of restaurants in Maryland where I've been allowed to purchase alcohol."
We eventually found a restaurant that was willing to serve us, vertical IDs and all, but the incident struck me as strange. Based on some quick internet searching, the experience was far from unique. In Maryland, it's not uncommon for restaurants and bars to refuse service to vertical ID holders, and the online consensus is that Maryland law requires this restriction.
But the real reason behind this practice turns out to be a complicated mess of local rules, state laws, and overzealous regulators.
Most states give vertical licenses to drivers under 21, presumably to make it easier for bartenders to weed out underage drinkers. In some states—like Maryland—vertical licenses are set to expire soon after the user turns 21, to make this difference even clearer. However, in many states—including Florida and Alabama, where Jack and I are from—vertical licenses can remain in use for much longer. Mine is good until just a few months shy of my 24th birthday. Jack's is valid until he's 24.
However, despite the insistence of online commenters—and our server—there's no Maryland law barring the use of vertical IDs in alcohol purchases. Maryland law "really doesn't mention anything about what orientation the driver's license has to have," Jeffrey Kelly, the executive director of the Maryland Alcohol and Tobacco Commission told me. "It doesn't make any comment to that. It's just the obligation of the individual seller to be certain that the person they're selling to is 21 or older."
Importantly, Maryland does have some other restrictive ID regulations. In Maryland, alcohol sellers are only technically allowed to accept Maryland driver's licenses or ID cards, a military ID, or a state-issued electronic driver's license. This particular regulation seems unusual, as all of Maryland's five neighbors (Delaware, Virginia, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, D.C.) allow businesses to officially accept any U.S. driver's license.
This means that businesses must exercise extra caution when examining out-of-state IDs. "If it's an out-of-state ID, that doesn't mean they can't purchase alcohol. It just might require another level, I guess, evaluation by the seller," Kelly said. If the customer does not obviously look older than 21, a business can ask for a second form of identification, or ask the customer to sign a form swearing that they are over 21.
This seems to be part of why vertical ID holders get turned away so often in Maryland—it's just easier than using one of the other methods of verifying the age of out-of-state customers. Rather than turning away everyone not from Maryland, turning away the minority of early 20-somethings with leftover vertical IDs helps businesses lower their risk of losing their license over an accidental sale of alcohol to a minor without busting out a load of paperwork.
However, this isn't the full reason behind Maryland bars' tendency to turn away vertical ID holders. Local regulations and recommendations can get in the way, too. "Maryland has a different way of approaching the retail sales of alcohol, different than most every other state in the country, and that is each local jurisdiction…[has] their own local liquor boards," Kelly said, "So each of these local boards has its own set of regulations that apply to the retailers, and each jurisdiction has some type of unique legislation surrounding [sic] as well."
For example, the local government of Frederick County Maryland has a suggested "Responsible Sales Policy" that, among other restrictions, recommends that business mandate that "no employee will accept a vertical identification card."
These factors—Maryland's narrow range of officially acceptable IDs and stringent local regulations and "suggestions"—end up incentivizing business owners to turn away droves of legal, paying customers. Making matters worse, many of them seem to think they're following state law when pushing out vertical ID holders.
My friends and I will probably stick to barhopping in D.C. instead.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Come down to Virginia. Plenty of bars in NOVA. Old Town Alexandria comes to mind.
Virginia used to do the same (can't confirm if that is still the case.) Some places used to refuse or make it tougher if you still had a vertical license. It also recall having issues in another state with my vertical VA license.
This is a silly thing to bother with on a libertarian site. Sure it's an annoyance and we should advocate for fixing these things, but it is really a small issue. I'd prefer to see the argument for lowering the age of all these things to 18 (or whatever age of majority should be) and loosening/limiting consumption laws on private property.
I'd love to see some young law student bring a "full faith & credit" suit against a bar for this -- a suit against the bar, citing all of the civil rights cases and arguing that not permitting a Florida woman to purchase a beer in a Maryland bar is a burden on interstate commerce as defined by SCOTUS a half century ago.
Maybe cause you and your millennial friends were obnoxious. Neighborhood bars don't like woke DC assholes...did you show them respect?
Most bars that don’t have a twenty something customer base have little tolerance for the Romper Room crowd.
Why Won't Maryland Sell Me a Goddamn Beer?
Well, you sure won't get your Goddamn beer when you cuss the hired help, Missy!
Barkeeps and cashiers selling alcohol are among the few positions left that can refuse service for any and no reason and whose word is final, and cussing the hired help is a sure sign of not being able to hold a drink.
Great article, Mike. I appreciate your work, I'm now creating over $35,100 dollars each month simply by doing a simple job online! I do know You currently making a lot of greenbacks online from $28,100 dollars, its simple online operating jobs.
.
.
Just open the link————————————>>> http://Www.JobsRevenue.Com
Is Billy Bob Thornton in on the business, Angie?
🙂
Plus Emma votes for the kind of idiots that lead to these policies. The level of liability bars have anymore is beyond ridiculous.
Very true. Bars and retail have become the conscripted baby-sitters for spoiled Inner Children.
You are welcome to come to Florida - - - - - - - -
Stupid alcohol laws still exist in some localities, but you can get a beer damn near everywhere.
(disclosure: tourist taxes are why we don't have state income tax)
"You are welcome to come to Florida"
She's in her early twenties, you old dog.
I know that; no reason she can't have a beer.
And I don't identify as a dog, just as a human.
Reason staffers are NOT welcome
Florida is also not a blue state. So things ar ekes miserable.
This is Strange, but conservative businesses are Bizzarre
What would a progressive business do?
Not serve alcohol at all - they'd be selling hash instead.
I think that was a reference back to one of last week's CPAC posts.
Tom Elliott
@tomselliott
·
Follow
Despite the 1st Amendment, @SenSchumer tells CNN: "We not only have a right to tell Rupert Murdoch and @FoxNews to do, but an obligation"
VIDEO
https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1631430830131126274
You don't get that high up in the establishment power structure by giving a fuck about the constitution.
It’s strange how the people who need trigger warnings, think they will defeat and control all the people who are trained and equipped to pull the trigger.
Well we know why jeff has been less active.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/silicone-baby-sold-sex-toy-online-horrifies-twitter-sick-demented
Time for another flood.
*crusade
This is normal. Bondage drag show for babies.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1631064634760351745
This has to be a deep fake. Tony has assured us that drag shows for kids are always age-appropriate.
Deepfake, because Jeff and Mike say this doesn't happen.
I’m surprised Groome rajeffy hasn’t rushed in to proclaim that this:
1. Never happened
2. Maybe happened but there was nothing to see
3. It happened and there’s nothing wrong with it
4, it’s necessary and healthy
Then make some false analogy about how stopping this is no different from forcing vaccinations on citizens against their will. Or some similar bullshit.
This country needs a good cleansing.
Video released of kids forcing kids to say black lives matter. As disturbing as you thought. At least CRT is working.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1631464580248485890
In descending order of priority:
1. Close public schools.
2. Take your kids out of public schools.
3. Teach you kids how to record activity in their school.
Got to get back to running down communists nd ruining their lives.
The schools need to offer self-defense training to white students. They barely resisted. That emboldens bullies.
Scott Adams is right.
Wow, talk about an over reaction. Adams:
If nearly half of all Blacks are not OK with white people …, that’s a hate group,”
“The best advice I would give to white people is to get the hell away from Black people … You just have to escape. So that’s what I did. I went to a neighborhood where, y’know, they have a very low Black population.”
I wasn't offended. But I'm white. That "if" in front makes a difference.
What the hell are you trying to pull?
He was commenting on a poll that unequivocally said more than half of all Blacks are not okay with white people.
He was making a proposition so he used the "if", he wasn't speculating about percentages.
I'm siding with Adams, you dumbass.
In an Open Society you get to pose questions like he asked.
Open Societies pushes shit they leads to the polling dummy. I've shown you this multiple times.
Arrest, indict, and imprison Fauci the lying perjurer.
Impeach Garland.
Impeach Mayorkas.
Impeach Biden.
Lets get moving on all this stuff, now please. This is what the people elected you for, and the clock is ticking.
Biden is of zero importance right now, but impeaching Garland and Mayorkas needs to be done ASAP. Some sort of action against Susan Rice and Ron Klain is needed too.
Sounds like they don't have the votes for Mayorkas. No idea why not.
Just remove and imprison them until they can be given a tribunal to declare them guilty of their crimes. If the constitution doesn’t matter to them, then it goes both ways. Like the average democrat soyboy beta male.
Put Durham on it!
#DurhamAlwaysGetsHisMan
Why isn't Impeach Buttigieg on your list?
He's better as the assclown of the administration to demonstrate for the world how asinine and stupid the administration actually is.
Yeah, he does look like a total clown at this point. Unfortunately, he has oversight of trains and planes. So it’s just a matter of time before he wracks up a body count that would put Jason Vorhees to shame.
Actually it is better to have an incompetent at the top because he can't cover up problems beneath him.
Norfolk Southern had *another* derailment the other day, and you'd be amazed at the number of near-misses we have been having recently at airports. A competent secretary could cover all of this up.
We elected Emma Camp?
P.S.: Where the fuck is so-called "senator" John Fetterman, and what is his status? Are we even still allowed to ask questions like this now in the "land of the free"?
Time to talk about a new constitutional amendment to expand the 25th amendment to provide this country with a desperately needed process to be able to remove members of congress who are incapacitated and non-functional, just like we have for the president. . This process will apply to republicans who are clearly unfit for office as well, just like it will to democrats.
I would instead prefer an amendment authorizing an annual vote on the entirety of Congress. If 50% plus 1 of Americans decides the current Reps and Senators are no longer desired, then the entire place gets flushed.
Sounds a lot like Italy. I don’t think any government there has lasted longer than 18 months before they’re voted out
The fact that Fetterman won despite the stroke being common knowledge is part of the reason I think Dementia Joe is the favorite in 2024 (unless the economy gets worse).
#VoteBlueNoMatterWho
#(SurprisedItDidntWorkForHillary)
thats only 30-40% of the reason.
[% mapping on to reflexive D voters]
What's wrong with you, Sandy? Fetterman has fit right in.
In fact, they should find room for the other 99 Senators in that looney bin.
"Hurr, hurr, it doesn't matter that the guys a vegetable, ALL politicians are incompetent... amirite? Hurr, hurr"
They're all vegetables, idiot. The cantaloupes always vote with the cantaloupes and the eggplants always vote with the eggplants.
Buttplug for WEEKS after Walker lost: I still can't shut up about Walker, because I'm offended by the idea that someone with brain damage even tried to disgrace The World's Greatest Deliberative Body with his presence.
Buttplug now that Fetterman's brain is confirmed to be in much worse shape than Walker's: LOL the entire Senate is a nuthouse anyway so Fetterman fits right in LOL!
Now that we've run the ideal experiment to prove Buttplug isn't actually bothered by brain damaged Senators, does anyone have any theories about what reeeeeeeally annoys him about Walker?
Is it racism? I bet it's racism.
Skin color is the most important thing
I disagree. Buttplug wouldn’t hesitate to fuck a little black or brown boy if he was given the chance.
Doubling down, huh.
Maybe Dr Oz had something to do with it
You don’t need to remove incapacitated members of congress. They just don’t vote.
Exactly; one less fascist vote.
My understanding is that Fetterman is at Walter Reed.
Wow, is this Emma's libertarian moment? Among the enormity of the leviathan the worst thing ever is not getting bar service? What will she tackle next?
Those pink cosmos won't drink themselves.
Robbie ears perk up at the noise of someone typing pink cosmos
It is the freedom most important to cosmopolitan libertines.
She’ll keep voting democrat just to make sure there is never another mean tweet.
Private business can decide to have stricter rule than law requires. If they want to turn away profitable barfly business, then that's their loss. In Annapolis, this might have something to do with underage midshipmen and their visiting buddies trying to drink booze.
I've made $1250 so far this week working online and I'm a full time student. I'm using an online business opportunity I heard about and I'AM made such great money. It's really user friendly and I'm just so happy that I found out about it. Here's what I do, .for more information simply.
Open this link thank you................>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com
From the context of the article, vertical oriented ID cards indicate that someone was under 21 when they received the ID. Considering how ingenious sub 21 year olds can be doctoring IDs and the state of liability surrounding alcohol induced accidents, the establishment may be making a rational risk assessment to refuse service to vertical ID holders.
I know that in New Mexico, the penalty for serving someone who is underage is a $1000 fine for the employee, and $10,000 for the business.
So yeah, if you're too lazy to go get a new license, you're not getting served. It's not worth the risk.
When I was young the Drivers license where paper. We just erased the year and used ink to write in an earlier year. We got served then, not because we were good at forging, but because nobody cared and rural bar owners needed our money.
In my experience (I’m old enough to be Emma’s dad), bartenders can find just about any reason to refuse to serve you, whether or not there’s a law on the books to back it up. Just go on to the next place that will serve you and no need to write an article about it.
Looks like it made it possible for Baylen Linnekin to take the weekend off, though.
Yeah, phew. A four paragraph weekly column is hard work.
She struggled since it wasn't a reprint of pleas for open borders.
All he has to do is write it sometime during the week & email it in. He can have every weekend off that way.
Like anyone gives a fuck.
Yeah, this is hardly new. Decades ago I went into a MA convenience store, grabbed a six pack and some smokes (I quit once they went over $2/pack so you know it was long ago). The cashier wouldn't accept my driver's license (vertical wasn't an option then) from a neighboring state and wouldn't sell me the beer but was more than happy to believe I was 18 and sell me the cigarettes. I just left everything on the counter and went down the street.
Not to play Topper, but I quit when they went from twenty cents a pack to twenty five. And that was in college.
I remember twenty-five cent cigarettes from high school. Gasoline was also around that price back them.
In my experience (I’m old enough to be Emma’s dad)
My daughter is probably old enough to be Emma's dad.
Emma needs to be hotter. There are plenty of hot young female writers out there. So Reason hires some leftist chick straight off college campus.
Just go on to the next place that will serve you and no need to write an article about it.
Build your own __________. I like your thinking.
You got it! See my post above.
I've refused several alcohol sales just this past week from people who stank of the stuff from 10 feet away! I've had threats to call Corporate on me more times than I can count. Never once heard from them.
In NC, both stores and individual employees can be held civilly and criminally liable for the acts of drunk patrons, so we have to put on a mean game face with drunks.
our waiter told us this meant he couldn't serve us. He insisted that Maryland law barred serving alcohol to anyone who tries to buy it with a vertical IDs. "He was very adamant about Maryland only accepting vertical IDs, despite my previous experience to the contrary," said. Jack
Emphases added. Good grief, Emma! Please read and edit your stuff before publishing it!
Editing is racist!
Hey, give her a break. She's hung over.
She’s a writer for a magazine. No excuses there.
Name one writer that was able to do their job while drunk!
Please excuse all the Irish ones
Hunter Thompson.
He wrote while drunk and/or high for some of his work. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas comes to mind. Strange book; stranger movie.
Every reporter working in the sixties or earlier.
She could literally just order a new drivers license online.
https://mymva.maryland.gov/tap/ind/_/#1
Yes, but where's the journalisming in that.
Plus, it would dash her "barely legal" status on the rocks.
You mean on the docks?
Libertarians should ask the government for a new ID?
Are there no libertarians even among the commentariat?
I get your point. But I’d argue There are a few layers of the onion you have to peel away, before you can legitimately start blaming private companies and their employees, who work under threat by the state if they serve someone under age.
She asked for her "barely legal" license which she holds on to like her virginity... so what's wrong with asking for the grownup version?
Is that to make herself seem more forbidden to a potential sugar daddy? To compensate for her lack of hotness?
I guess some sarcasm is not sarcastic enough.
Well played.
Did I Poe? Doh!
Libertarians should act like adults. Yes. Instead of bitching as a victim. Libertarians are not anarchists. You’ve even admitted it. But you retreat to the argument they are often.
This is the same bullshit given regarding voter ID. SOMETIMES people have to act like an adult.
Libertarianism limits authority, it doesn’t remove it. As long as a drinking age is present asking for a couple of minutes for an ID is fine when purchasing alcohol. This isn’t hard or egregious.
Blind compliance is not acting like an adult, any more than blind disobedience. Not all hills are worth dying on, but refusing to defend any hill is not very adult either.
You seem to be another of those who conflate anarchy and chaos, who think spontaneous self-organization from the bottom up is impossible, that there must be some coercive top-down government to provide the framework that defines society, as if you also conflate government and society. Neither of those conflations is correct.
And adjust your sarcasm meter.
For fucks sake. It isnt blind compliance. It is compliance with a societal standard of drinking age. Keep raging all you want, but it doesn't change shit. It is like calling every worker a drone of the maaaaaan. Lazy bullshit. There are lots of things adults do. It isnt a meaningless, care free life. Youre honestly sounding like Tony here.
Libertarianism is not anarchism. Sorry you dont realize that when a bumper sticker is involved. Sometimes adults have to do things when they would rather do something else. Like working to provide substance. Nothing is handed to you.
Acting like an ID for alcohol is some burden is quite frankly childish as fuck.
It's a pretty large burden placed on businesses. No it's not the most important issue of the day. But US alcohol laws are nuts. Somehow just about every other country with any kind of drinking culture manages to get by with teenagers being allowed to have a drink in public.
Spontaneous order is a thing, but we will never live in a world where you're not going to have some kind of top-down government.
Government isn't society, but people are people and the Hillary Clinton's and the Dick Cheney's will always exist and conglomerate power and arms around themselves till they form a de jure, if not a de facto government.
There are many kinds of anarchists. Not all of them believe that having no government is something that will ever have a chance of happening.
My position is that there will always be some kind of government. But that doesn't give government any special moral status. Everyone working for the government should still have all of their actions judged as their own individual actions. Acting under cover of the law is no excuse for immoral behavior.
"Libertarians should ask the government for a new ID?"
Ask? Around here, you have to _pay_ the government for a new drivers license.
Hey, where is Reason's house foodie with another devastating expose of government restrictions on home-brewed cheese wine?
Why the long slog on regulations. This seems to be a case of all too human behavior. Restaurant employees see vertical ID. Knows that this is given to under 21 drivers. Does not check either State that issued ID or date of birth. Lazy yes, state mandated behavior, no. The state is not "incentivizing" any business to turn away business. If there is any incentive it is to make sure that ALL customers are screened for a legal drinking age. The vertical ID makes it easier to effectively screen. If there are some boundary cases (like that described here) then it is up to the customer to clarify with the wait staff. Or go elsewhere.
If it annoys her so much, she can take an hour to get a new ID. Most states even let you do it online. She is mad at her own laziness.
In Arizona the liquor laws actually don't allow bartenders to accept vertical IDs. Getting a new ID after 21 is simply 30 second on the azdmv site.
https://azliquor.gov/forms/inv_driver_license_replacement_MVD_instructions.rev06232020.pdf
Coming from a province where anybody could buy a gallon of Everclear at 18, driving for five years before being legal to purchase alcohol, seems weird to me.
In B4 some 8 year old German kid.
Don't summon shrike with temptation.
IMO, the time order of permissions ought to be
Marijuana
Tobacco
Alcohol
Guns
Driving
Voting
Basically in order of the potential amount of harm to yourself and others, and the amount of judgment required to do it responsibly.
I would say:
Driving—18
Alcohol—19
Guns—21
Voting—25
Guns - 8 with parental supervision
Alcohol - 8 with parental supervision
Driving - 12 with (sober) parental supervision
Guns & Driving without parental supervision - 16
Alcohol without parental supervision, Tobacco & Marijuana - 18
Military - 25
Voting - 30
All are none of the State's business.
Sure, as long as we legalize slavery again, so when some drunk 8 year old with no financial resources drives into me and makes my life and earning potential into hell, I can still get some compensation.
Yes, let's punish everybody for events so rare that no one actually believes they can come true.
Someone owns that car, like parents. How many parents are actually going to let their 8 year old drive it?
It's like requiring a permit to carry a gun. Are you worried about 8 year olds carrying and shooting someone through carelessness?
It reminds of Probability Broach, I think it was, where everyone, including toddlers carries guns.
If kids are driving, do you still think these events would be rare?
I would say:
Driving -- 15 (lower if you live on a farm)
Alcohol -- 18
Guns -- 18
Voting -- I'll get back to you.
The solution is simple.
Driver’s licenses no longer acceptable, must have a drinking license.
Learner’s permits available a few years early?
Use it as voter ID or to get on a plane?
Your idea has merit.
It’s already legal to drink with your parents.
Depends on the state. In Wisconsin, you can order a beer for your under 21 kid. In Illinois, you can’t provide alcohol for much more than a family dinner in private.
I believe in some places even at the family table for your own child is not legal, just mostly unenforceable.
No, voting licenses start at age 30, with provisional permits available earlier for net positive tax payers.
We need a constitutional amendment depriving wine moms of voting rights. I don’t think I need to explain that.
Because it's easier than making a mistake.
That's it. That's the reason. Nothing more than that.
It would be helpful if the author of this column explained what a "vertical license" is, as I never heard of that term before.
Several years ago, I got my PA driver's license changed to a Real ID, which will be required to get into any federal building or airport in the future (it was supposed to go into effect several years ago).
You are old.
Yes, and the Reason writers are teenagers.
What's the age limit for teenagers now?
30, at least.
When you lose your vertical ID.
I had to google it. But it doesn't take much age to not know; I don't think I have ever seen anyone else's drivers license.
Deducing from the context I understood that vertical IDs are given to under 21 drivers in at least some states. It is strange that Camp never explicitly states this, as it would make it clearer what the motivation for the bartender for refusing service was. Of course, it would also negate the conceit of the tone of the article that this was some sort of mystery, done for frivolous and arbitrary reasons.
I worked 10 years at Maryland liquor store. The reason we didn’t except them is because if we fuck up the math on the date, the state will come down on us like a ton of bricks. Are you seriously blaming businesses for not wanting to get fucked by state and county?
If you can just see them at a glance, this isn’t an issue. This has been a known thing in Maryland since I turned 21 a zillion years ago. Half the places won’t take them because they don’t want the headache. Protip: Usually if you hit the Asian mom and pops, they usually don’t care about the vertical. Unless they’ve been hit for fucking up the date.
It's been about 10 years since I tended bar, but I don't recall ever seeing a vertical ID before. Is this really a thing in most states, or just the ones Emma is familiar with? Or is it a newer thing?
The bars / restaurants I have worked at in Kansas & Missouri were both near the borders of MO/KS and MO/IL, so we were familiar with those ID's, and had a book behind the bar that had minor & adult example images from every state, US territories, and military ID's, and I think Mexico and Canada.
Marylands had them for decades. It’s often a ritual to go get them changed on or as close to your 21st birthday as possible to save yourself the headache of a potential rejection. Usually city bars don’t care. But out in the counties the inspectors and state troopers could be pricks. So businesses refuse them to cut down on potential citations and fines.
The sucky part of that is having to renew on or about your bday every several years.
Missouri licenses expire on your birthday every 6 years.
Which is exactly how I want to spend the Saturday before my birthday: At the DMV.
Illinois does one better, every four years. However, if you've gone those four years as a "safe driver", i.e. no moving violations, you can renew the license online/by mail and they'll mail you your new license without you ever having to step foot in the Secretary of State's driver services centers.
in 1983 I let my driver's license expire after getting it in 1981 at the age of sixteen. For two years, I used this expired license as ID. At 19, I used it to buy alcohol with never an issue. We have less freedom now. A lot less.
I used to get served at 15 in Wisconsin bars if I was with my dad. Different times and different places, the enforcement varied.
You can probably still get served in a lot of Baltimore city bars with an underage ID. But out in the suburbs, the counties and state troopers actively go after you. And they’re often tougher on cigarettes than alcohol.
You can still get served at 15 if you're with a parent in WI. Wisconsin is special like that.
MADD was founded in 1980 and took a few years to really get rolling.
MADD was bullshit. drunk driving went down because cops/law enforcement/DA's got serious about it not because some Yenta moms raised got the drinking age raised. Lower it to 18 as it should be..and shut up Yentas...they have moved on to supporting sexual mutilation of kids...oh to be the mom with a trans kid...all the rage on the Upper East Side and Georgetown
The original founder of MADD has repudiated the organization because it morphed from an organization dedicated to combatting drunk driving to one that was essentially promoting prohibition.
Grading on a curve for females I welcome Emma to the libertarian club.
Back off her, Trump Cultists. I said "libertarian".
Libertarianism and pedophilia aren't the same thing, Shrike. Neither is libertarianism and libertinism.
Thanks for extending liberal coddling into libertarian politics. So, no more mean words (or tweets)?
Wa you’re not libertarian, and either is Emma. Your a leftist pedophile. Emma is a leftist, although not likely a pedophile.
The real problem is that the person who serves alcohol to a minor can be heavily fined or even go to jail
Prople making minimum wage aren't going to risk that to make their employers a few more bucks
Exactly. This article’s take panders to the same type of people who yell at grocery store clerks about the price of eggs.
Tell me about it. I try to use such moments to explain the basic Economics of inflation and other externalities to my customers, but usually to no avail.
One Big Dummy even said it was all about greed. I then asked: "Well, why don't prices go up forever?" No reply but a blank stare.
I work grocery in the overflow parking for DC region of Maryland. Tail end of 270. I just want to say “why are the prices so high? Because you voted for it?”. But I got a mortgage to pay…
Oh ffs. This is some self absorbed bs.
There are bars in Texas that won’t even take out of state ids. Because the marginal revenue from these edge cases just isn’t worth the risk to a liquor license.
When I worked bar 2 decades back, the state made us memorize all state ID. We had a book to compare to. We started noticing a shit ton of Hawaii ID because they were basically printed paper. Owner told us to stop taking out of state ID at that point. Students could get arizona drivers licenses.
Any of them try using the name "McLovin"?
The movie made me laugh at how the tagged the easiest state ID to forge. Someone had experience. Wonder if the writer was from Arizona.
Missouri licenses in the '90's were basically laminated paper that had been industrially scuffed to a fine pearl finish. No micro-text or holographic stickers or anything.
If you had access to a scanner, Photoshop, a printer, and a belt sander, your 17-year-old ass was pretty much good to go.
My store lets us take passports and Mexican Matricula Consular Cards, Mexican Voter Registration Cards, as well as foreign State-issued IDs from other countries.
This made me wince because, given the ignorance of Geography and History among the Yutes of today, I was afraid some young cashiers would take passports from dead nations like The Soviet Union, Czechoslovikia, Rhodesia, or The Confederate States of America.
Also, we never were taught about what a legitimate Passport looks like, so there’s that.
One Russian customer tried to pass off an International Driver’s Licence from The International Motorists Association. I, of course, flat out refused.
Do AZ licenses still last for a ridiculously long time?
Isn't that a problem, though? Why should these businesses face that risk and be conscripted into enforcing liquor laws.
Every license I've ever had has my date of birth on it. Maybe Maryland bartenders aren't good at math.
That is exactly the problem. Business owners do not assume their employees can do arithmetic.
It’s also a matter of who is in violation. If you screw up the math, it’s on the business. If the person is passing a fake iD, it’s more likely to fall on the person trying to get served.
Why would you bother?
Vertical license, take it down the street, zoomer tween. This joint is for grownups.
Keep in mind that Illinois drivers licenses (yours and mine, Gaear) use a system to double check the birth year. The year is reprinted between the last two sets of numbers; i.e. A123 4567 8910, where the 7 and 8 are the birth year (i.e. 1/1/1978). If those numbers don't match, the ID is fake. I had to check IDs as a checker at a grocer back in the early 2000s before my first professional job.
Actually did not know that and I've lived here for 30 some years. Not that anybody's gonna card me. When I buy beer at the self check I nod at the clerk 30 feet away, she nods back and I'm good to go.
All the places I know that serve/sell anything age related have the current date minus 21yrs and 18yrs prominently displayed where all servers and bartenders and sales clerks can see it.
And depending on the establishment, you might have 18 year olds who can barely read a clock checking IDs for 100 people a night in extremely hectic and disorienting situations. Or in my case, the liquor store owners daughter expected me to start drinking with her on duty about 6pm. So by the 9 o’clock rush the math gets trickier.
In these cases, just cutting out the verticals is a much safer bet.
First the drinking age should be 18 years old. It was when I grew up in New York but Yentas from NYC decided that all of us couldn't be trusted because of some bad apples (sounds like prohibition where woman/wives got pissed because they all had a friend whose husband blew his wages in booze). Cops don't put up with drunk driving anymore..that is what reduced alcohol driving deaths among the young not raising the drinking age.
Second, why are any Reason' editors living in NYC or DC? This just reinforces the appearance that you all are just wapo/salon wanna bees...and not real libertarians (which you are).
Emma, move to a real State like TN or Ohio (not Cleveland though), Texas, Florida..get the hell out of DC.
The drinking age in Michigan was 18 when I lived there and I (over) indulged quite a lot. The argument has been made that raising the age just delays the time when people learn their limits. Just another part of infantilizing young people. When I was 18 you were either working, married, going to college or some combination of the three. Living in mom's basement and playing video games at 21 was not an option. Yeah you could drink at 18 but you also had to have your shit together.
Some friends and I had decided to drive an hour or so outside D.C. to visit Annapolis, Maryland. We were eager to go barhopping but quickly ran into trouble: Being over 21 and having valid identification to prove it wouldn't be enough to actually get us alcohol.
The article you'll never read on reason:
Some friends and I decided to drive an hour or so outside of McAllen, Tx...
Being over 21 and having valid identification to prove it wouldn't be enough to actually get us alcohol.
Reason's Barely Legal writing team...
But it's more fun to cosplay as a libertarian in the US center of Big Government.
Fiona's story,
Some friends and I drove a couple hours to Ensenada. We were eager to do some bar hopping and nobody asked for our ID. We met some wonderful and productive people there who I am convinced would have contributed greatly to Koch Industries. But when we came home the border patrol demanded that they show their IDs. Why won't the government let me make America a better place?
"Why won’t the government let me make America a better place?"
It wouldn't be about making the country better, it would be "why won't the government let me make a bunch of random foreigners lives better?"
The US government prioritizing the interests of the country and its citizens is icky and wrong. Only the foreigners matter.
"Reason’s Barely Legal writing team…"
Literally TeenReason.
“..an hour or so outside of McAllen, Tx…”
Back in the 90s, 15 minutes south of McAllen was a very common place to do some underage drinking and acting out. Not anymore, though. If you’re crossing over into Reynosa now you need to be alert, sober, dressed inconspicuously, and keeping your head down.
"He was very adamant about Maryland only accepting vertical IDs, despite my previous experience to the contrary," said. Jack Bailey, a friend of mine who was there that night. "I've been to plenty of restaurants in Maryland where I've been allowed to purchase alcohol."
?!!
*thumbs through Reason Style Guide*
I got nothin'.
Marylanders hoping to hook up with a random culture war casualty weep.
No worries. Betters are much more likely to get robbed and/or shot in D.C. and support the culture war personally.
Open wider, Art. I'm not nearly done shoving your humiliating stupidity down your throat. 🙂
I wouldn’t mind seeing Judge Barrett confirmed, if only because I believe it would precipitate the installation of four new, better justices during the first half of 2021. - Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland, October 2, 2020
Expected a 13-member Supreme Court within Biden's first 6 months.
2 years later, only got an old liberal justice swapped out for a younger one.
But hey, Biden gave you a proxy war with Russia! That's almost as nice as 4 RBG clones!
At least Schumer is back to advocating for packing again.
Amy?
I misjudged the votes of Sens. Manchin (D-Hooterville) and Sinema (D-Space Cadet), which has delayed the mainstream's imposition of adult supervision at the Supreme Court.
That delay does not influence the important point that America's betters are already pissing on the graves of the political aspirations of disaffected clingers, half-educated bigots, and on-the-spectrum faux libertarians who have lost the culture war. That culture war is not quite over but has been settled. America's betters have won.
Soon enough, clingers will be reliant on their betters' magnanimity. So be nicer, clingers, or you may find the future even more unpleasant than it already is destined to be.
Obsolete right-wing assholes will eventually find an end to that dependency, of course. Upon replacement.
When did Maryland start selling beer? I'm in a control state where the state stores sell spirits but beer and wine is available practically anywhere.
Here’s The Lawmaker Who Accepts More BlackRock Money Than Any Other Member Of Congress
Why does this not surprise nor shock me.
If you saw Twitter the last few days, this execution was hard to miss.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/04/the-st-louis-killing-that-went-viral/
This week, Saldana was murdered. On Monday morning, as Saldana sat on a curb, a man stood over him and shot him dead. It looked like an execution. We know that because mobile-phone footage of the killing has since appeared on social media and across mainstream news sites.
Several miles from my house and just a few blocks from where my brother used to live, and the venue where he and his wife held his wedding.
10 years ago, that was a vibrant neighborhood.
Is "vibrant" like diverse?
No, I mean old abandoned warehouses were being converted into loft apartments, and there were a ton of good restaurants and bars and entertainment venues opening up.
So, more like 'gentrification'.
Saying the quiet bit a bit too loudly.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-samantha-power-lets-slip-us-war-russia-ukrainians-doing-fighting
In a CNN panel last week, the head of the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) Samantha Power issued some very revealing words on the Russia-Ukraine war, wherein she admitted that the US is at war with Russia but that it's "Ukrainians doing the fighting".
"US is at war with Russia but that it’s “Ukrainians doing the fighting”."
SRG/Shrike's erection must be harder than diamonds.
Biden pisses off Soros Democrats.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/fuking-amateur-hour-democrats-livid-biden-over-dc-crime-bill-flip-flop
House Democrats are livid that President Biden is going to nix a Washington DC crime bill that would reduce the penalties for violent crimes such as carjackings and robberies.
Licking their wounds from this expected loss, House Democrats then expected the Biden administration to veto the resolution overturning the original crime bill - which Democratic leadership told lawmakers Biden would do. The White House even issued a Statement of Administration Policy which opposed the resolution and backed the DC City Council.
But on Thursday, Biden announced that he would sign the resolution to block the DC bill - thus maintaining the status quo when it comes to penalizing crime in DC.
And Democrats are livid...
We're too fucking fat.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/more-75-americans-aged-17-24-arent-fit-military-service-dod
Citing a Feb. 16 congressional hearing, a DoD report reveals that 77% of Americans in the above age group could not physically qualify to enter the armed forces - a 6% increase from 2017.
A key factor is obesity - which hit nearly 42% in 2020. Meanwhile, a 2022 study cited by the Epoch Times found a link between receiving government food assistance and a greater chance of becoming obese through the consumption of unhealthy foods. A 2015 USDA analysis found that 40% of total SNAP participants were obese.
The coming bug protein diet will take care of that.
Say what you want, you WILL lose weight on that diet.
Here's the link between SNAP and obesity: Lazy people without impulse control get fat. Lazy people without impulse control also have trouble holding a good job, so their income is low enough to qualify for SNAP.
Covidnobyl.
https://nypost.com/2023/03/04/why-the-covid-lab-leak-cover-up-is-similar-to-chernobyl/
In an interview with Fox News, the nation’s top G-man finally admitted what much of the world already believes: That COVID-19 “most likely” originated from an incident in a Chinese government-controlled lab in Wuhan – with emphasis on incident, not accident.
I'm finding something interesting with the shift in tone on this story.
It went from:
Shut up Racist.
It's not happening
Ok, maybe it happened, but there's no way to know, stop talking about it.
Ok, it happened, but what difference at this point, does it make?
to
"It's a Chinese lab and a Chinese leak from a Chinese lab in Wuhan which is in China.
It's almost like they've leapt over the fence to the lab leak side but have aggressively left behind Anthony Fauci's (probable) involvement out of the equation.
“It’s a Chinese lab and a Chinese leak from a Chinese lab in Wuhan which is in China."
I'm old enough to remember two years ago when White Mike said Trump was the most racist racist to have ever racist before for inferring that.
Remember when closing our airports to flights from Asia (when the infections were mostly there) was RACIST, but then, 2 months later, locking down every citizen, infected or not, was THE SCIENCE?
I do not forget and I do not forgive. No amnesty for tyrants.
The proxy war in Ukraine was just an appetizer. The soup course uses a Taiwanese recipe.
There are also some rumblings that the virus was developed in Ukraine.
Don't know what to think there, but the abrupt tone shift you mention lends such a theory a bit of credence.
https://twitter.com/WarClandestine/status/1619121813258207233?t=BpUTaXCEXH8eVlaCO0Cgyg&s=19
1) Hey Twitter,
It's me, the biolabs guy. Aka "Clandestine".
I was banned on 2/25/22, 11 months ago, for writing the viral thread about the US funded biolabs in Ukraine (attached).
In this thread, I am going to administer the biggest "I told you so" in history.
#USBiolabs
[Link]
Upending childhood and dealing with wokeism.
https://nypost.com/2023/03/04/woke-ideologies-are-upending-american-childhood/
“We like the book a lot but want to tone down the ‘fight’ message.”
We were talking to an editor at a major conservative publishing house about the book that would eventually become “Stolen Youth,” a book we hoped to write that would trace just how early leftist indoctrination targets children from every direction.
Colorado Dems hope Governor McDreamy will go for this unlibertarian legislation.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/colorado/article_c32637fc-babf-11ed-b4bf-d74b9ed5fc78.html
Colorado Democrats introduced a long-awaited bill on Friday night that would ban the sale or purchase of “assault weapons” in the state.
House Bill 23-1230, introduced by Rep. Elisabeth Epps, D-Denver, and Sen. Rhonda Fields, D-Aurora, adds to a list of firearm restriction bills that Democratic lawmakers have introduced this legislative session.
To be fair, Denver and Aurora are the favorite places to be murdered in Colorado.
#DemocratsRunTheSafestPlaces
Next week:
"The Libertarian Case For Gun Control"
And the Illinois gun ban is declared unconstitutional and suspended in the state.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/illinois/article_34c36830-b9f8-11ed-b877-eb8067fc5da5.html
A Macon County judge has declared Illinois’ gun ban and registry unconstitutional, setting up a direct appeal to the Illinois Supreme Court.
The move means the law is not enforceable statewide pending appeal, according to attorney Jerry Stocks, who represents state Rep. Dan Caulkins, R-Decatur, in his challenge to the ban.
#FuckYouPritzker
I'm not really keeping track but I think Pritzker has lost in every court that has considered the law. But he still claims that he's confident the state will prevail. I don't see any way this gets through the federal courts. It's almost like they wrote it to piss off SCOTUS.
#FuckYouPritzker
No widespread election fraud?
https://www.thecentersquare.com/washington/article_1e346408-ba01-11ed-8472-4ba9547c8a7b.html
During recent election cycles, the Washington Department of Licensing, or DOL, received numerous reports of foreign nationals being automatically registered to vote in the state, even in cases where they insisted to DOL they were not legally allowed to vote. Some county election agencies have described it as a “rare” occurrence, but it is currently unknown to what extent this problem occurred.
“The State Auditor's office said that the Department of Licensing assured them that they carefully follow state regulations about ensuring only Americans receive ballots,” she wrote in the email. “This is not happening. These are two instances when foreign nationals are presenting their foreign passports and automatically receiving election ballots. Both were not asked ‘are you an American citizen?’ They proved, through their passports, that they were foreign nationals. I received answer that if a person is asked the question, ‘Are you an American citizen?’ and do not answer or do not understand English, they will be issued a voter registration card.”
Diane Reynolds (Paul.)?
WTF???
https://twitter.com/HansMahncke/status/1632153062100938752?t=MblxPUGg-rMyc8q-vLjt9A&s=19
ICYMI former British Health Secretary Matt Hancock wrote a book about his pandemic "heroics". Unfortunately for him his coauthor thought the public ought to know the truth and leaked his texts. That is how we now know what was really going on: "When do we deploy the new variant?"
[Pic]
Every single fucking "conspiracy theory" is turning out to be true.
The Telegraph - THE LOCKDOWN FILES
The Telegraph has obtained more than 100,000 WhatsApp messages sent between Matt Hancock and other ministers and officials at the height of the Covid-19 pandemic.
The conversations raise vital new questions about the handling of the pandemic ahead of a public inquiry into the response to Covid-19.
Over the coming days we will reveal devastating details about the pandemic response that had until now remained secret.
We’ve analysed messages containing 2.3 million words
The conversations shed new light on issues including:
Care home deaths
Lockdowns
Testing
School closures
And face masks.
‘Project Fear’ authors discussed when to ‘deploy’ new Covid variant
Matt Hancock’s plan to ‘frighten the pants off’ the public to ensure compliance with lockdown measures exposed in leaked WhatsApp messages
Thank fuck there's still some actual journalists in the UK.
I've got Trump at CPAC in the background here. He's sharp, funny, totally freeforming and remembered everybody's name. The contrast with stumbling bumbling Joe could not be more stark
You just made thousands of sensitive progressives run screaming for their safe places. Or at least the few that read Reason comments.
Got Gutfeld on now. The contrast with Rachel Maddow could not be more stark.
Is he promising to "drain the swamp"?
You know, like he promised in 2016 and then failed so totally that (according to him, anyway) "the swamp" cheated him out of a second term? The same swamp that presumably won't be able to cheat him in 2024?
The swamp is going to cheat any Republican nominee in 2024 unless mail-in/dropbox voter fraud is stopped.
Cool.
Maybe his new slogan should be Trump 2024: I'll Lose Again for the Same Reason!
Seems a little sleazy to ask people to donate to your campaign if it really is that hopeless though.
Agreed, but DeSantis or anyone else will face the exact same thing... well, maybe not Ryan if he bends the knee a little harder.
I've made $1250 so far this week working online and I'm a full time student. I'm using an online business opportunity I heard about and I'AM made such great money. It's really user friendly and I'm just so happy that I found out about it. Here's what I do, .for more information simply.
Open this link thank you................>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com
Wouldn't increasing immigration lead to bars accepting more kinds of IDs, and serving better beer? Maybe Fiona can write an article about it.
The Big Red Machine is rolling across Ukraine. Looks like the Trotsky armies are in retreat. We need US troops to liberate Ukraine. Pass a draft Demos...we need a draft right now. Deferments of course for the Media's kids, academia's kids, politicians kids, DIE consultant kids, for non Christians..Trotsky demands those progeny of European Peasants (Irish, Italian, Greek, German, English, Spanish) to die for the new Bolshevik Republic of Ukraine
So you're saying Putin is winning? He's the closest one to Trotsky I see in that whole mess.
Maybe you and your friends were pretentious assholes...neighborhood bars don't really want your kind...
So your whining about something you know is an actual thing? When you turn 21 just mosey down to the DMV and spend $5 to get a replacement horizontal one. What's the big deal?
I've had quite a few grocery stores refuse to sell alcohol if you had a state ID (rather than a driver's license). This was a bit of a problem back in the days when the police would take your driver's license if you got a ticket and mail it back after you paid the ticket.
Here's another possibility for why bars adopt the 'no vertical ID' policy, from https://303magazine.com/2018/06/this-is-why-your-vertical-i-d-isnt-accepted-at-certain-bars-in-colorado/:
“When the police run sting operations, they’re sending in real minors with real valid underage I.D.s. from one of the, last I checked—44 states, that used vertical versions. There’s a high probability when someone is presented a vertical I.D. that it could be the police.”
“I’m 1100 years old, bring me a frickin’ beer!”
“ID.”
“))*&@… bring me a Coke.”
(Buffy the Vampire Slayer)
Seriously, though, I’ve cleared 50 and still have a vertical ID. In Tennessee, that is the form of non-driving ID cards.
I have never even heard of a 'vertical' ID. What the fuck is vertical ID? It must some younger person thing, I guess boomers like me are supposed to just die already and stop clogging the comment sections and yelling at the clouds. And stay the fuck off my lawn.
You must be old like me. I'm sure your kids know all about this, although it's possible no woman would have sex with your cranky ass.
I'm old and let the neighbor kids play on my lawn.
I do live by a certain credo though:
You can't always be young, but you can always be immature!
When my kids were turning 21 in New Mexico they all ran into this. I'm sure the convenience store clerk believed it when their trainers lied to them telling them it was state law, but it was no use. If it were store policy, that's one thing, as any business has the right to establish its own rules, but this is just a lie. It might be out of ignorance, or perhaps it's easier to blame their own policy on state law. Either way it's just stupid.
Date younger chicks.
Use the Formula: half your age plus seven.
Shrike is 0×age plus 7.
Half your age plus nine, Shrike.
What if (age)/2 + 7 = (I used to consider that to be old)?
Beer goggles?
This gives a whole new meaning to "Math Is Hard."
😉
It would be even better if he took his own life. To. Make sure he never hurts another child.