Prosecutor Drops Firearm Enhancement Against Alec Baldwin
After a tragic on-set accident, a district attorney used a law passed after the incident to threaten Baldwin with years in jail.

Actor Alec Baldwin no longer faces years in prison, but his case still raises questions about prosecutorial overreach.
In October 2021, while rehearsing a scene on the New Mexico set of his film Rust, Baldwin discharged a firearm inexplicably loaded with live ammunition. The shot killed one person, cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, and injured another. Last month, New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies filed involuntary manslaughter charges against Baldwin and the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed. While the charges carry a maximum sentence of 18 months in prison, prosecutors included a firearm enhancement which could add a mandatory minimum of five years.
The case faces a lot of challenges. For one, as UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh wrote at The Volokh Conspiracy, "the prosecution would have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that [Baldwin] was subjectively aware of the danger," not just that he was careless or negligent. But according to police, the crew member who gave Baldwin the weapon assured him it was a "cold gun," not loaded with a round that could be fired.
More troubling, though, are the circumstances around the firearm enhancement. The statute allowing prosecutors to threaten Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed with extra prison time was not passed until May 2022, seven months after the shooting incident. Under the law in place at the time of the shooting, the mandatory minimum was only three years, and would only apply if the weapon was "brandished," meaning "with intent to intimidate or injure."
In a motion to dismiss the charge, Baldwin's attorney called the use of the newer statute "unconstitutionally retroactive."
On Friday, Carmack-Altwies announced that she would no longer pursue a firearm enhancement against Baldwin or Gutierrez-Reed. In a statement, a spokesperson said the office downgraded the charges "in order to avoid further litigious distractions by Mr. Baldwin and his attorneys."
"The prosecution's priority is securing justice, not securing billable hours for big-city attorneys," continued the statement. But this implies that the firearm enhancement itself was not necessary for "securing justice."
Perhaps, as is all too common, the charge was intended to scare Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed into taking plea bargains and giving up their right to trial. Perhaps the prosecutor wanted to make a high-profile example out of Baldwin. But it is not appropriate to charge people under laws that didn't go into effect until months later.
More evidence could come out at trial, and lesser charges might make sense. Gutierrez-Reed was responsible for all weapons on the premises and has faced criticism from colleagues for her poor gun safety practices on set. And as not only the star but also the film's producer, Baldwin may bear responsibility for what was, by many accounts, a chaotic film set.
Loading up defendants with a panoply of serious charges in the hopes that they will take a plea is unjust, and yet it happens with increasing frequency, usually against defendants who aren't household names. By virtue of hiring "big-city attorneys," Baldwin was able to convince prosecutors not to levy the most severe charge on the books. But this case serves as a reminder of the thousands of cases every year in which a defendant without Baldwin's resources has little choice but to take whatever deal is offered.
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Manslaughter is what occurred where Alec should pay the penalty for shooting and killing a woman.
The prosecution's conduct has been unimpressive, so far . . . but not much worse than one would expect from a backwater district attorney's operation. The office mouthpiece, in particular, seems to be struggling.
Struggling as badly as you did when you tried to predict Biden's impact on the Supreme Court?
I wouldn’t mind seeing Judge Barrett confirmed, if only because I believe it would precipitate the installation of four new, better justices during the first half of 2021. - Rev. Arthur "Wish I Had a Delete Button" Kirkland, October 2, 2020
Did the office mouthpiece really say anything more embarrassing than that?
Haha, I miss the OBL zingers. Glad to see the spirit of OBL still lives on...
Can't kill OBL, not even Baldwin can do that.
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Nobody tell him that New Mexico is controlled by Democrats.
Or they didn’t realize/care that the law changed after the shooting.
Malicious incompetence.
Perhaps, as is all too common, the charge was intended to scare Baldwin and Gutierrez-Reed into taking plea bargains and giving up their right to trial. Perhaps the prosecutor wanted to make a high-profile example out of Baldwin.
Uh, if it's "all too common", then wouldn't applying it to Baldwin just be business as usual rather than attempting to make a high-profile example?
Both together or as an either/or could make sense, but only if you believe that, in the eyes of the law, Baldwin is somehow above the all-too-common treatment normally afforded the plebs.
It was shitty of the prosecutors to seek this charge, but also, Baldwin literally killed a woman.
The point is that anyone who can afford competent private attorneys is above the treatment given most defendants.
The point is that anyone who can afford competent private attorneys is above the treatment given most defendants.
Right. Commoners. Plebs. Everyone else gets special treatment/a justice system biased in their favor.
Baldwin has handled guns; was trained to use them. Proving his subjective knowledge of the danger involved here is child's play, i.e. he pointed a weapon at another human being and they can prove he pulled the trigger - that is a dangerous act that could and in fact did result in death regardless of what someone else may have said about the status of the gun. If he was 'subjectively' aware the gun was loaded (posed a danger) he would have been charged with voluntary manslaughter.
In his ABC interview he said he would "never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, never never." Because he clearly knows that it's dangerous to do that and you should never do that.
He's talked himself into a conviction, his best course is to plea.
What? No, his best bet is connected phone calls and promises of future donations as soon as he gets out
Can't he just ask for home confinement with the Bankman-Fried's?
that is a dangerous act that could and in fact did result in death regardless of what someone else may have said about the status of the gun.
It's an act that happens routinely on movie sets every day. That's why they have professional armorers who are responsible for safety. The death was Gutierrez-Reed's fault, not Baldwin's.
There are movie sets and there are movie sets. One of the biggest gripes about the Rust movie set was that it did not utilize SAG rules in terms of lots of stuff. I am not trying to defend Gutierez-Reed but she was not even on the set when the shooting occurred as a cost cutting measure (one of many cost cutting measures at the Rust filming).
As someone involved in indie films I can assure you that cost cutting measures are far more common (often resulting in safety violations). So saying
"It’s an act that happens routinely on movie sets every day. That’s why they have professional armorers who are responsible for safety."
ignores the fact that the 'professional armorer(s)' was not on the set when the shooting occurred.
Bullshit, most movie scenes don't have people pointing guns at each other but provide the illusion through editing and deceptive angles. In the few cases this is not true the set is tightly controlled which this was not because it was him goofing on set.
Really? Routinely on movie sets an actor points a gun at a producer off-screen and pulls the trigger?
It’s an act that happens routinely on movie sets every day. That’s why they have professional armorers who are responsible for safety. The death was Gutierrez-Reed’s fault, not Baldwin’s.
This moronic claim is no less moronic now than it was the first 100 times it was made.
he pointed a weapon at another human being and they can prove he pulled the trigger
Not only that, by his own admission he didn't check the gun himself to make sure it wasn't loaded, which anyone who has handled guns (which as you point out he has) should know you never do.
Then of what use is the armorer? Obsolete job?
To make sure that the actor is handling the gun safely, including doing things to check the gun themselves. Because you don't want a single point of failure between a completely normal day and someone is dead, you need to have layers of protection.
Baldwin failed to responsible for his own layer, and the armorer forfeited her own responsibilities.
RANT ALERT
SAG is basically a union even if it calls itself a guild. Kinda like the ABA inflates salaries of lawyers by restricting entry SAG does the same thing.
In my last indie movie I was credited with being the "Property Master" who was charged with having costumes and weapons (actually fake weapons made of plastic that would likely break if used as a blunt weapon) ready in a timely manner for the actual shooting. An armorer in some ways is a property master who deals with more real weapons. As an aside the director in my last shoot refuses to use anything close to a real weapon and as in most movies puts the sound and special effects in during post processing. In truth using a real weapon is cheaper than adding stuff in post and since Rust was well known for being a cost cutting shoot I wonder if they even had a special effects post guy.
Baldwin was the producer of this film; is he not then responsible for the lack of adequate safety measures that are clearly described? To the extent that the armorer was not even on the set, because of cost constraints, when this happened. And he happened to also be the lead in said movie, and discharged the firearm himself.
If so, how the hell does anyone conclude that he is innocent [I know, rhetorical question, because they really really want to; and of course it was the gun's fault, right]?
To the extent that the armorer was not even on the set, because of cost constraints, when this happened.
My understanding was that the armorer wasn't on the set because of bullshit COVID constraints (IOW they were more concerned with limiting the number of people inside the building where they were filming because of a minor respiratory virus than ensuring proper firearms safety precautions were followed).
Then of what use is the armorer?
Of more use than pretty much anything you've ever posted.
When section 230 makes you a sex worker.
How is this the fault of Section 230?
Did Section 230 force the perpetrator to make deepfakes (i.e. fraudulent pictures)?
Do you think it should be illegal to make deepfake porn/nude photos of famous celebrities? I don't think it's very tasteful, but I also think it falls within Fair Use. So then it simply comes down to whether the person qualifies as a public figure.
I don't think it's a section 230 issue.
It's not, I just wanted to draw moths to the flame.
But it might qualify as either unauthorized use of likeness or as revenge porn. Section 230 could legitimately get implicated from those (say a SM company sued for refusing to remove it without a court order, you'd have to go through the author). Not seeing how the bogus expanded version could follow though.
I'm open to having my mind changed on this. But unauthorized use of likeness cases usually hinge on the implication of speech-using a famous person next to your logo to imply they're promoting you're product. That cuts to their freedom of speech. But they don't have a right to remove all pictures of themselves from the internet, that cuts to others' freedom of speech and press.
If the deepfake artist was making money off of this and trying to sell it as the real thing, with no disclaimers about it being deepfaked, there might be something there. But I otherwise think it might be covered by fair use.
“For every person saying it’s not a big deal, you don’t know how it feels to see a picture of yourself doing things you’ve never done being sent to your family,” QTCinderella said in a live-streamed video.
Feels like something straight out of @WomenPostingLs:
"For every person saying it's not a big deal, you don't know how embarrassing it is to have to convince your family that you didn't blow six dudes at once on camera."
The fact that all the celebrity porn I've seen, AI or otherwise, makes The Running Man look brilliant only adds to the hilarity.
On the plus side, now anytime someone's nude pics/ homemade pron gets leaked they can always just claim that it's AI generated.
"It's that bastard Skynet! I would never do something like that!" - Sarah Connor
Getting back on topic see my post about how movies are more realistic using fake guns and adding the sound and muzzle flash with special effects during post processing.
As an aside I can recall an old NICS show where for some reason Abby had to view some porn clips and her reaction was 'I am not nearly flexible enough to do that stuff'. Kind reminds me of the Twelve Inch Pianist.
Does mens rea matter?
Always.
It would if Baldwin was being charged with any crime that required it. Negligence and involuntary manslaughter do not. Please stop trying to legal terms you don't understand. It's as embarrassing for you as when you keep employing "ad hominem" and "tu quoque" incorrectly.
Baldwin's a moron. But the "litigious distractions" seem like they were coming exclusively from the prosecutor's office, not from Baldwin's defense team.
It's really saying something when the prosecutor refers to the defense raising a legitimate point of law as “litigious distractions”
I have not yet seen an explanation of why they were using a practical gun during a rehearsal.
I can honestly see reasons you might want to use a real gun instead of something plastic. The goal was to preview the actual shot so they could get the framing and the lighting correct.
If they'd actually done the bare minimum of safety protocols, this would have been an extremely safe situation. But they weren't being safe. The person in charge of making sure the gun was safe had left, nobody else checked the gun, and fucking Baldwin had shitty trigger discipline. That's why there's multiple rules for gun safety-because if you happen to mess up one, you can still be perfectly safe.
Since this was rehearsal, they shouldn't have loaded dummy rounds into the gun at all-they could have just emptied it for the sake of setting up the shot. Or Baldwin could have dry fired into the ground six times. Or Halls could, or the armorer could have. Since it was supposedly dummy rounds, that would have affected nothing. Or the armorer should have followed code and loaded the gun in front of Baldwin and Halls, shaking every single round to prove it was a dummy, before loading them into the revolver.
It took a lot of repeated failures of safety protocols to cause this travesty, not first among them hiring an incompetent purple hair.
Also, I'll be the asshole: There's no reason, in the 21st century, for the cameraperson to be behind the camera with a gun pointed at it.
They could have worked out some sort of remote set-up. But this film was being scraped together on a budget. My contention is that if multiple people hadn't been utterly reckless, this should still have been a perfectly safe and acceptable situation. Properly lighting the gun is fine, but then why bother putting even dummy rounds in it?
I think armorers should force actors to check guns themselves in front of the armorer as a standard practice, and if the actor is unsafely handling the gun, they should take the gun and walk. I've heard of actual cases where this has happened, and the scene was rewritten so an actor was instead given a rubber knife.
Why do you think armorers should force actors to check guns in front of them? Did you mean it the other way around? The anesthesiologist doesn't make the patient check their own pulse. The mechanic doesn't make the driver check their brake fluid.
Kinda weird that you don't understand the difference between co-workers and customers/merchants or doctors/patients. Exactly how retarded are you?
In the case of the driver and the mechanic, I did have in mind that they were both trucking employees. The relationship doesn't really matter, it's just who specializes in what. If the actors have to check out the props, then of what use are the props people?
In the case of the driver and the mechanic, I did have in mind that they were both trucking employees.
Well, either you're lying, or you don't know dick about trucking. Your choice you stupid fuck:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-III/subchapter-B/part-396/section-396.11
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-III/subchapter-B/part-396/section-396.13
If the actors have to check out the props, then of what use are the props people?
Pretty cold to say "Sure she's dead but anything we did different would be a redundancy." Pretty stupid to pretend like safety is the sole purpose of division of labor and to say "Why would we ever need redundant safety checks." Seriously, even my 9 yr. old has had this figured out for years.
Do us all a favor; eat a bullet and don't get back to us on how many safety checks were/weren't required.
The anesthesiologist also doesn't just hand the drugs over to the patient. It's wildly irresponsible to hand a gun, any gun, to someone who can't demonstrate basic safety skills. For this to happen, Baldwin had to ignore three out of the four most basic rules of gun safety.
They could have worked out some sort of remote set-up. But this film was being scraped together on a budget. My contention is that if multiple people hadn’t been utterly reckless, this should still have been a perfectly safe and acceptable situation.
I don’t exactly think there’s an inconsistency here. Part of the “multiple people being utterly reckless” includes a whole film industry that is, apparently, at a cultural level, OK with having a loaded gun pointed at their face.
I don’t care how expediently on a budget you were doing a project, if your gun kept falling out of your EDC holster and/or you had several ADs, you’d either unload the gun and stow it away somewhere else or find a different way to do whatever it is you needed for the project. If you killed someone, I’d totally expect every rational human the next project over to go “OK, however we execute our project, let’s *not* do that.”
The screen actors guild guidelines for safe gun handling clearly state that the actor will check the gun themselves.
So there is no excuse to rely solely on the armorer to check the gun.
All SAG members are required to follow these rules
"I can honestly see reasons you might want to use a real gun instead of something plastic."
You know nothing. In fact you know less than nothing because if you even knew you knew nothing that would be something.
There is no reason to ever have a real gun on set. Both the sound and muzzle flash are more realistic (at least to the fictional movie maker and viewer) if they are done with special effects in post processing. First off anyone who has ever been to a real gun range knows there are big signs requiring ear and eye protection. Even shooting a .22 inside a room is deafening and forget doing it with a 9mm; but movies never have the sound that loud. The muzzle flash in movies is always nice and controlled where as in real life not so much.
While I am a big time 2A guy I see no reason why anyone would claim a real weapon has a place on a movie set, but you can take things too far. Who can ever forget Jon Snow's Valyrian rubber sword
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEz1z5Daxmo
I know a pyrotechnician who does display fireworks as well as movie special effects. There are times you want real pyrotechnics in making a movie, and certainly in doing a live show.
I know a pyrotechnician who does display fireworks as well as movie special effects.
^Shit that didn’t happen.
There are times you want real pyrotechnics in making a movie, and certainly in doing a live show.
^Shit to which the dumb fuck effectively says above, “But if the fire marshal is going to inspect the pyrotechnics, why have a pyrotechnicians at all?” Apparently, just to demonstrate to everyone what a lying, stupid fuck they really are.
There is no reason to ever have a real gun on set. Both the sound and muzzle flash are more realistic (at least to the fictional movie maker and viewer) if they are done with special effects in post processing.
I disagree with the second sentence. That disagreement has no bearing on the first sentence.
My understanding is armored was barred from set for COVID so that should have put a stop to everything here if a minimum of procedure was to be followed.
The case faces a lot of challenges. For one, as UCLA law professor Eugene Volokh wrote at The Volokh Conspiracy, "the prosecution would have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that [Baldwin] was subjectively aware of the danger," not just that he was careless or negligent
With all respect to Volokh, that's an impressively low bar. He knew he was holding a real gun. He knows that guns are dangerous, which is why he has a well documented history of speaking out against guns and advocating for gun reform. He knows it's dangerous to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, which is why, in his ABC interview, he said, "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull the trigger, never never."
He absolutely had to know that it's dangerous to do that, but he did, by virtue of the fact that the gun went off (and the FBI tested the gun and could not get it to fire without a trigger pull).
So his knowledge that he's holding a gun and that guns are dangerous, and that pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is dangerous, is more than sufficient to show his subjective awareness of the danger.
What about guilty mind?
He was aware of the fact that guns are dangerous and acted recklessly. He was aware of the fact that he was holding a real gun. his failure to treat the real gun as dangerous, despite his knowledge that guns are dangerous, is a guilty mind.
It would be like getting hammered and then driving drunk, and then claiming you didn't intend to do anything bad after you run over a kid. You knew that drunk driving was reckless but you did it anyway. Baldwin knew that pointing guns at people and pulling the trigger is reckless and did it anyway.
How many times over his career do you think someone whose job it is to be sure that it is safe handed him a gun and told him it was "cold"? Hundreds? Thousands?
That's utterly irrelevant. He knew this was a real gun and not a mock-up, not a toy, not a plastic replica. He knows how guns work.
Why do you think he said, in his ABC interview, "I would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger, never never?" Why would he say that if he was utterly unaware of the possibility of the gun going off?
You're saying he's got a guilty mind because of what he should have thought, not based upon what he actually thought.
That's a clear and amusing way of putting it.
If you're as stupid and easily amused a toddler watching his fart bubbles in the bathtub, I suppose.
Do you truly not understand the legal term for negligence?
Are you surprised? The drunken moron still uses "ad hominem" to refer to personal insults after having the correct usage explained to him several thousand times over the course of 7 years.
We can get a pretty good of what he actually thought based on, you know, the fucking interview he gave where he explained what he actually thought.
Also guilty mind still isn't required to prove negligence, recklessness, or involuntary manslaughter.
That’s utterly irrelevant.
No, that's the point, and why Baldwin will be acquitted. What he did was completely normal and routine on a movie set. Gutierrez-Reed was at fault.
No it's not, but keep lying.
How many times over his career do you think someone whose job it is to be sure that it is safe handed him a gun and told him it was “cold”? Hundreds? Thousands?
You're arguing in Baldwin's favor in the hopes that your own, "I've driven home drunk hundreds of times and never run over any kids before!" argument will hold up in court aren't you?
From a libertarian perspective, "no blood no foul" is an arguably reasonable defense for drunk driving. I don't recommend trying it, though.
From a libertarian perspective, “no blood no foul” is an arguably reasonable defense for drunk driving.
It certainly is not a reasonable defense. You do not have the freedom to create a reckless hazard that, through sheer luck, does not harm anyone. You don't have the right to mag-dump into a crowd and claim nothing bad happened if you miraculously missed them all.
You increase the danger to people around you every time you drive. You could have left the car home. Or you could have taken a different route that didn't have as many intersections.
Covid crowd used the same justification.
I'm all for drunk driving enhancers. I am not for drunk driving blockades. Especially given the threshold levels keep being reduced to in order to catch more drivers.
I never said I'm in favor of checkpoints or blockades. But if the officer pulled you over for weaving or speeding and discovers that you're drunk, you deserve the book thrown at you.
Again. Fine with enhancers for criminal acts. Such as speeding.
Not fine with a cop pulling over someone driving perfectly fine and blows at the legal limit.
In your example speeding while intoxicated. Not just driving while intoxicated.
In context, we pretty clearly aren’t in court for Alec Baldwin or the analogous drunk driver because there’s “no blood”.
I agree on “no harm, no foul” but that’s not the argument and sarc’s defense is just generally stupid: “I’ve given my kid tylenol a hundred times. Because I accidentally gave them a lethal dose only one time means I’m innocent!”
“I’ve had sex with women a hundred times. Because I accidentally raped a woman to death only one time means I’m innocent!”
“I’ve swung a baseball bat a hundred times. Because I accidentally swung it when someone’s head was in the way only one time means I’m innocent!”
No. “No blood” and you’re good, but we aren’t here because there’s “no blood”. Maybe you’re a good person and the good you do for the community offsets a sentence, or a portion of it, for a minor crime or similar, but it doesn’t change your guilt/innocence.
If you didn't know it was a lethal dose, because the doctor at the emergency room an hour earlier told you the kid had been given acetaminophen-free drugs the whole time there, but was mistaken this time, that's a pretty good defense.
Did I mention a doctor, hospital visit, or even a prescription medication? Because it seems an awful lot like you invented a doctor and presumed their guilt, opposition to jurisprudence, without any facts.
Go ahead, say "BUT MUH ANALOHJEE!" because, even if you didn't invent a doctor, *your analogy* still presumes guilt on the part of one party *and* that it unnecessarily/wholly exculpates the other party, that two people can't both be guilty.
That's an awful lot of stupid to fill your head up with in defense of whatever Alec Baldwin infatuation you've got going on.
The analogy doesn't work on several levels. Like, there's appropriate safety precautions required for using acetaminophen, and those are to read the label, use appropriate dosages, and consult your doctor under certain circumstances. If you followed those safety precautions and something bad happens, you're not using them recklessly.
Whereas a gun, which only exists to propel bullets forward at a deadly speed, requires safety precautions like always treating it as if loaded and never pointing it at something you don't intend to destroy. In this case, Baldwin ignored those safety precautions, but we're supposed to compare it to a situation in which appropriate precautions were taken with some other substance.
It's all nonsense to me.
All it says is that the actions of other people can affect one's knowledge in a way that abolishes guilt.
If you think safety precautions were ignored in any obvious way, don't you think someone at the scene would've pointed that out? They, including the people who were shot, acted as if everything was normal procedure.
Go look up "contributory negligence" you fucking retard. They used to teach that shit to 15 year old kids in driver's ed.
All it says is that the actions of other people can affect one’s knowledge in a way that abolishes guilt.
No, it doesn't and the fact that you think it does demonstrates that you don't understand the law and/or aren't impartial enough to sit on a jury.
I don't know if you don't know the difference between the word "abolish" and the word "absolve" but, altogether, you've done less to convince me that you're correct, and more to convince me that you have trouble understanding law, or even the written word in general, at even an 10th grade level.
Thats my guess.
Basic rules of safe gun handling
1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Finger off the trigger until sights are on target.
3. Always make sure of your target, including what's behind it.
4. Never let the muzzle cover anything you're not willing to destroy.
In order for this to happen, Baldwin had to ignore three out of four of those rules. Pretty much the definition of recklessness and negligence.
Still not a requirement in negligence and involuntary manslaughter cases you stupid drunken piece of shit. Just because you're a self-confessed convicted felon who isn't allowed to own firearms doesn't mean that every piece of shit who kills somebody is an innocent dindu.
"So his knowledge that he’s holding a gun and that guns are dangerous, and that pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is dangerous, is more than sufficient to show his subjective awareness of the danger."
Not to mention the two or three negligent discharges that had already occurred on the set. The only way an actor as influential as Baldwin would continue handling a gun on the set after that is if he was too arrogant to ever think it could happen to him.
If everyone was trained in gun safety why did Halyna and the director stand in front of Baldwin and let him point a gun at them? How much did their actions contribute to the tragedy?
And did you see how short her skirt was? She was asking to get shot.
I like to think of Halyna as the Ashley Babbitt of the Rust film set.
Close:
https://reason.com/search/Halyna%20Hutchins/
Showing 4 of 4 results found for: Halyna Hutchins
https://reason.com/search/Ashli%20Babbitt/
Showing 5 of 5 results found for: Ashli Babbitt
That's a terrible analogy.
I guess the principled position is that it's overreach to charge someone with a bullshit firearm enhancement that wasn't in effect when the crime took place. But then I find myself thinking "Fuck Alec Baldwin. He'd undoubtedly support this kind of law if it was being used against anyone else." Oh well, as long as he doesn't get off (which he probably will, in which case I'll say it again: fuck Alec Baldwin).
And that's the reason why people want to throw the book at Baldwin. The want him convicted because they don't like him.
I want him convicted because he carelessly handled a gun in violation of every common sense rule of gun safety, and that resulted in a woman dying. I also want the armorer convicted for her own reckless disregard.
^This^
Although I'll also admit to not liking Alec Baldwin for being a pompous, arrogant, narcissistic asshole.
Which I'd say is probably relevant to the issue at hand. If he'd respected the gun and not been above taking basic safety precautions, perhaps he actually doesn't shoot a woman.
How is the armorer responsible when they didn't even allow her on the set?
That and he broke practically every rule of firearm safety (never point a gun at anything you don't want to kill, always assume any gun handed to you is loaded until proven otherwise, etc.) and was at minimum criminally negligent.
If you always assume it's loaded, then it's a waste of effort to have props people communicate whether the gun is loaded.
Baldwin was the producer and had already been told of multiple accidental discharges on set.
I dislike this argument because it lets him off the hook as an actor, and you could make the legal argument that he was so disconnected he wasn't paying attention to the safety issues and didn't think there was any problem.
Even if he had been unaware of other safety concerns on set, he still has to follow the rules of gun safety, just like every other actor even with a professional, top-tier armorer should still check the gun. Because the armorer is a human and humans make mistakes, and a mistake with a gun is deadly. Treat it as if it's unsafe and you'll be very safe.
Where is that written in the laws of New Mexico?
https://law.justia.com/codes/new-mexico/2019/chapter-30/article-2/section-30-2-3/
Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.
Pointing a gun at another human being and pulling the trigger is acting without due caution or circumspection. It's reckless use of a firearm and has been ruled on in multiple cases.
Yeah, but what you didn't realize is that Vern is a retarded sack of shit celebrity worshiper who wants to tongue Alec Baldwin's balls and won't let your silly little "laws" and "safety protocols" stop him.
Then he would've had to unload all the rounds the specialist in doing so had loaded, and then reload them. We shouldn't have that going on, because in the long run it would only increase dangers.
One of the people on set said they would often take the same guns and load real bullets to shoot after takes. Baldwin should never have allowed that.
I think he is guilty as it was actually negligence. He ignored prior safety violations as the producer. That makes him guilty of criminal negligence and homicide.
He was not ignorant to prior problems.
For you, I'd say it's a waste of effort all the way around. Just put the gun in your own mouth and pull the trigger. Soon enough you won't have to worry about anyone else's safety or wasted time and we'll all be better off for it.
No, it's not. Redundancy is good when it comes to safety. If even one of several mistakes hadn't happened, the woman would still be alive.
"I don't know if you're going to throw the book at Alec Baldwin or not but I like him more than you do and that means you're wrong and worthy of me falsely portraying your guilt." - Vernon Derpner
Show me where he says, "Throw the book at Baldwin." or "He should be charged with the firearm enhancement." you disingenuous dickbag.
“Fuck Alec Baldwin" is pretty clear in this context.
It's amazing how saying "fuck Alex Baldwin" is so clear in your mind, but pointing a loaded gun at a woman and deliberately pulling the trigger, then going on national television and claiming you would never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger and that it fired on its own is so ambiguous. It's almost like you're a stupid piece of shit celebrity worshiping faggot who wants to tongue Alec Badlwin's balls and no other facts of the case are relevant. Any thoughts on that, Vern?
Yeah, rather literally saying, "Were the roles reversed, Alec Baldwin would throw the book at the shooter. Fuck Alec Baldwin."
The whole post is, at best, an equivocation about throwing the book at him. He clearly, factually, and primarily (more clearly, factually, and primarily than the vague [sexual euphemism] [name]) states his personal predilection is that Alec shouldn't be charged with the enhancement, i.e. not throwing the book at him. Why you overlook that statement in favor of interpreting a vague hypothesis about what Alec would do as fact because it hurts your feelings... I can only surmise that it's because you have a bias, feelings, or both for Alec Baldwin. Whether it's because he's white or male or liberal and you think white males shouldn't face charges for shooting people or liberals shouldn't be responsible for their actions or just he's really dreamy, I can't say. But it's obvious that you've interpreted a "IDK if he should have the book thrown at him or not." as "You just want to throw the book at him because you don't like him!" like some sort of satirical hyper-emotional teen.
There are people who want to throw the book for two reasons, first he is at least guilty of criminal stupidity in the way he handled the gun and second he is a libturd who deserves it.
I think the details lean more in the direction of criminal intent and malice than simple negligence. There should at least be some scrutiny that this was outright murder, but it looks like the prosecutor took that off the table.
I don't like the asshole and that probably colors how I view this, but he pointed it at a person and pulled the trigger in anger while also knowing there was the potential of a live round.
It is quite the coincidence if he pulled the trigger once and the chambered round happened to be live rather than a blank. Supposedly he also had live rounds on his belt. I lean more towards believing Baldwin or someone else loaded that round intentionally than to accept the coincidence that there were live rounds sprinkled throughout the set and he was just unlucky enough to do this when one of the few was chambered.
Oh, and before I forget:
Obligatory.
I need more details on where that came from name of movie plz
Team America: World Police
So, did the sentence enhancement get enacted by the legislature after the shooting, or was it passed earlier but only took effect after the shooting?
If the former, that would sound like an obvious "ex post facto law."
called the use of the newer statute "unconstitutionally retroactive."
Ok, now do Clinton's retroactive tax enhancement.
Courts have ruled that the Constitution's ban on ex post facto laws applies only to criminal law. Taxes are a matter of civil law. I'm not saying I like this, but the legal precedent is clear.
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If you think safety precautions were ignored in any obvious way, don’t you think someone at the scene would’ve pointed that out? They, including the people who were shot, acted as if everything was normal procedure.
Comments stopped threading properly once the nesting got deep, but it hardly matters in this case. For the record, I was responding to A Thinking Mind. But I remember when these comment threads were all linear and the only way to get some semblance of threading was to blockquote, and the character limit then in effect inhibited even that. So while HyR editorially has gone off the rails, it's improved design-wise.
the character limit then in effect inhibited even that
You're just all kinds of incompetent aren't you?
I know basic safety procedures weren't followed. If they had been, this could not have happened. If no one commented on this, this suggests widespread ignorance of proper gun safety.
If we can't enforce retroactive laws, how can we possibly authorize reparations to those deserving people of color who may or may not have been distant descendants of slaves?
Critical Race Theory. All Black people who ever lived are fungible.
So if you take your car to the shop for new brake pads, and during the drive home the brakes fail because the shop cut a brake line, that’s your fault?
This analogy is stupid. The gun didn't malfunction, the gun worked perfectly as intended. And Baldwin handled it recklessly even if the gun was safely loaded.
To make your analogy complete, you could still potentially be liable if you were speeding and swerving all over the road prior to realizing your brakes weren't working. Someone else's negligence does not nullify your recklessness.
the gun worked perfectly as intended.
No, it didn't. It was intended to be a harmless prop. That it was not was the responsibility of Gutierrez-Reed.
It was intended to be a harmless prop.
I don’t think you know what the words “intended”, “harmless”, or “prop” mean.
Edit: My mistake. Your issue may be reading comprehension but even if you knew the meaning of words, you clearly would let your feelings blind you to what they actually mean or convey. I didn't expect you to contradict yourself in a three sentence "It was a prop! The fact that it wasn't a prop is someone else's fault!" post Tony-style.
Well, at least the first word of your handle is correct.
Guns are intended to make holes in things when they're loaded and the trigger is pulled. Therefore, this gun worked exactly as designed. It did not malfunction, it was used recklessly. That recklessness overrode any intention for it to be "harmless".
What if they said your brakes are fixed then you crash and find there's no brake pads?
"Actor Alec Baldwin no longer faces years in prison, but his case still raises questions about prosecutorial overreach."
Looks more like the big shot got a cozy deal after killing somebody, to me.
However little I like Alec Baldwin, I still don't think he should be prosecuted under a law that wasn't in effect at the time of his actions. I'm sure there are long-established laws on the books that would be appropriate for punishing his lethal recklessness.
"A tragic accident"? How about negligent homicide? if the dipshit had taken an NRA gun safety course he would have cleared the firearm before playing with it. The arrogant s o b needs to spend some time in the clinker just for being such an irresponsible dumb shit.