Don't Let Police, Media Mislead You About Fentanyl Exposure Overdoses
Another officer claims to have been laid out just by being close to the drug. That’s not how it works.

Once again, media outlets are rushing to sow panic by blindly accepting a police department's claims that an officer may have accidentally overdosed by being in close physical proximity to fentanyl, reinforcing the false message that you can potentially overdose on the drug even if you don't intentionally consume it.
This time we head to Tavares, Florida, where the Tavares Police Department distributed to the local press body camera footage of Officer Courtney Bannick appearing to collapse and pass out after encountering what turned out to be fentanyl and meth in a rolled-up dollar bill she found in a routine traffic stop.
Local news outlets lapped it up (the story, not the fentanyl) and the video footage ran on WESH (the local NBC affiliate), FOX 35, and elsewhere. In none of the initial stories does anybody so much as question whether what they're seeing is actually being caused by exposure to fentanyl. The officer was wearing gloves, but it was windy, and police argue that it's possible she breathed the fentanyl in. Officers on the scene say they gave her three doses of Narcan. They brought her to the hospital, where she fully recovered. She is now fine.
The Tavares Police Department is very clear that it's releasing the body camera footage for the purpose of scaring people about fentanyl.
"Officer Bannick really wants others to take away that this drug is dangerous," Tavares Detective Courtney Sullivan told WESH. "It's dangerous for not only yourself but others around you. Something as simple as the wind could expose you and just like that, your life could end."
This just isn't true. Add it to the pile of many, many examples of police attempting to convince the public that any possible exposure to fentanyl may be deadly. It does not simply pass through the skin when you touch it. As for the claim that the officer might have inhaled it, a study from the American College of Medical Toxicology and American Academy of Clinical Toxicology calculated that a person would have to stand next to a massive amount of fentanyl for two and a half hours to feel its effects.
In other words, based on what we know about fentanyl exposure, it is extremely unlikely that what we saw was Bannick overdosing from inhaling fentanyl in a gust of wind.
Obviously something happened—possibly a panic attack brought on by all the insistence that any exposure to fentanyl is potentially deadly. FOX 35 did revisit the story Wednesday with a vague "some say" approach, taking note that there is an "ongoing debate between law enforcement and some in the medical community who say it's nearly impossible to overdose on fentanyl at crime scenes." This is not a "debate." Police keep making claims that medical experts overwhelmingly say are not true.
FOX 35 tracked down a doctor who said that it was, in fact, possible that Bannick could have inhaled fentanyl during that short period of exposure and overdosed. That doctor is not identified and does not appear in the segment.
The good news is that people are publicly pushing back on stories like this. Tweets put out by overly credulous journalists are quickly responded to by people who point out the unlikelihood of what happened.
And yet the story persists. Perhaps police departments believe that these warnings will discourage people from meddling with drugs. They are the ones that respond to these overdose calls and see the impacts. It's clear the Tavares police are hoping that this footage will serve as a public warning.
But when the claims being put forth by the police are easily countered by medical professionals, their efforts are completely undermined and they look less credible. The same holds true for local media outlets.
Whatever the solution to our overdose crisis may be, it's not misleading the public.
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They did this shit on FBI Tuesday night. A duffel bag full of fentanyl was discovered and one of the characters said, "if that bag rips open, we're all dead!"
If fentanyl kills everyone who comes into contact with it, how are any drug users still around?
I or how about the people who made it and put it in the bag?
Yes, Reason is the only news outlet that I know of that dares to tell the truth about the absurd fear hysteria whipped up by law enforcement and state media.
I saw this yesterday and immediately called bullshit. The media pretends fentanyl is akin to chemical warfare.
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The better title for the article is “ Don’t Let REASON, AKA the Media Mislead You About Fentanyl Exposure Overdoses”
Reasons contradictory and subsequently misleading conclusion.
“Something as simple as the wind could expose you and just like that, your life could end.”This just isn’t true” VS “In other words, based on what we know about fentanyl exposure, it is extremely unlikely that what we saw was Bannick overdosing from inhaling fentanyl in a gust of wind.”
Unlikely doesn’t mean untrue.
Hey REASON, sometimes the truthful answer is “I DON’T KNOW “
“To support the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health Opioids Research Gaps Working Group, we examined the state of the literature concerning methods to protect workers against accidental occupational exposure to illicit opioids, and have identified unmet research needs concerning personal protective equipment, decontamination methods, and engineering controls. Additional studies are needed to overcome gaps in technical knowledge about personal protective equipment, decontamination, and control methods, and gaps in understanding how these measures are utilized by workers. “
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34407666/
You are correct. I thought Reason was different but they are trying to drive a false narrative just like the others.
When we wanted to minimize the coercion of lying in court and contracts, we criminalized it.
When you say ‘we’ are you referring to the Reich back in Germany during the 30’s?
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Seriously. If it's that dangerous how had the guy carrying it not died?
He was a George Floyd level superuser?
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If you inhale fentnyl dust from an area that contains enough of it, the effects on someone with no tolerance can be severe.
In a word: tolerance.
The more your body becomes tolerant to it, i.e. the more times you take it, the less of an effect it has on you. Hence drug users can nonchalantly take doses that would kill a non-user, and most cops are nonusers.
Back when we were just dealing with constant-strength heroin, the problem is that the dosage that the user needed to get high inexorably approached the lethal dose, leaving smaller and smaller margins of error.
Here is a NIH paper that explains tolerance in general:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31578704/
And one other thing -- even with the Narcan, any fentanyl in her body would show up on a blood test, which any competent hospital would run to see what they are dealing with. (Narcan just blocks the receptor, the fentanyl is still there, with a half life and the rest.)
I don't think the cops are stupid enough to lie about something like this -- if there were no fentanyl in her blood, someone would tell someone and it would eventually come out. Now a panic attack exacerbating this when she first felt the influence of the fentanyl, that I can believe.
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They've been caught in exactly that lie numerous times, where a blood test showed no exposure.
This isn't quite accurate. The lethal dose isn't fixed. You build tolerance to the respiratory depression that kills you, and increases quicker than tolerance to euphoria/sedation, and it's the relative difference in dose that matters... i.e. a difference of 80mg heroin/oxy could very well make somebody with very low tolerance OD, but for somebody used to taking several hundred mg, such a difference would not be dangerous.
Assuming you're not combining with other substances, your OD risk *decreases* as your tolerance increases.
The article doesn't claim anything different... it's just your standard fearmongering about opioid induced hyperalgesia, which is rare, despite propaganda that it's inevitable.
Its not like they’re kryptonians afraid of being in the unshielded presence of green kryptonite FFS.
Here’s a link to an article Reason published a few years back where they interviewed an anesthesiologist.
https://reason.com/2017/09/22/no-simply-touching-fentanyl-cant-kill-yo/
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people took bong hits of fentanyl and did not die on Intervention I can't imagine the "breathe it and you die" thing is real
Remember when the Russians pumped fentanyl gas into a theater during a hostage crisis?
130 dead (out of about 900). Plus 40 terrorists shot in the head while unconscious.
It was not just fentanyl.
Rather, it was likely carfentanyl, which is more than 100 times the potency of fentanyl. Or could have been something even more potent that the Russians had cooked up. It was a perfect opportunity to test a new weapon on their own.
Like the 'anesthezine' gas used in Star Trek. Knock them all out, and later (but not too much later) resuscitate those who you want to live.
Likely.
Meaning we dont know.
Just like we dont know what was actually present in this case either. Could have been fentanyl, or alfentanyl, sufentanyl, or even carfentanil. Once you can do the synthesis most all are in reach.
And when talking about all these agents the potencies vary by factors of two to 100, but in all cases purity can be even more critical as that determines the true dose.
Actually, we do know. It was a mixture of carfentanil and remifentanyl. And as Gasman suggests, it is multiple orders of magnitude more toxic than the stuff the police are seeing. And even at that, it took a LOT more exposure to have an effect in that theater than what any cop is exposed to in the course of duty.
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Also had to do with how they positioned the, at the time, unconscious bodies. Laid them on their back when putting them on their side or sitting up would've been safer. If I recall correctly
It was aerosolized fentanyl.
There was a lot of interest in all the anesthesia journals when it happened
The analysis was that the Russians were able to aerosolize fentanyl and pump it into the theater’s ventilation system.
Funny that no therapeutic use was made of the discovery that fentanyl could be inhaled
They died because when they took them out they laid the people on their backs instead of their side and they vomited and chocked to death.
It’s possible some of them died simply because they metabolized the anesthetic has differently than others. There’s a reason anesthesiologists, out of all the medical specialties, pay the highest malpractice insurance rates. It’s seriously tricky to get the dosage just right—depends on the person’s size of course and on many underlying issues. You get it wrong and you either get someone waking up during survey or they don’t wake up at all. So anesthesizing a bunch of people of different body sizes, ages, and hearth conditions is not gonna go well.
Given Russia, I'd say the fact that only 130 of the 900 had pre-sedated themselves with vodka before being dosed with opioids was an optimistic number.
No
They died because the Russians don’t care about human life.
Hostages sedated with fentanyl were placed on their backs.
No narcan was available.
No one applied the simplest airway maneuvers like a chin lift.
No one placed actively vomiting persons onto their side or cleared the airway
Airway obstruction and vomiting are expected complications of giving fentanyl to a large number of people.
It would have been easy to have persons with basic cpr training standing by to do chin lifts
They chose not to do that
They chose to not have the medics prepared for treating opioid overdoses, and not even tell doctors at the hospital who were treating the victims. This was mass manslaughter through sociopathic indifference.
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Whatever the solution to our overdose crisis may be, it's not misleading the public.
You'd better hope misleading the public solves something, because that's most journalists raison d'etre these days.
Also most public agencies.
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Who are you to deny the cop’s lived experiences?
Move the reply button
No.
Threadwinner.
It was a woman. Believe all women™️.
After the past several years, you want me to pick between police and medical experts to place my trust?
There are also journalists in the mix to spice things up between this choice selection of scum and villainy.
Hey, where the lawyers at?
^- this guy gets it.
Urine drug screen, or quantitative analysis, on the officer would clarify matters.
But it is possible that clarity is not the intended goal.
Would 3 doses of narcan muddy the results?
No. Narcan only reverses the effects, it doesn't remove the drug.
There was a story the other day claiming the new stuff is so potent it took 9 doses to counteract. Then a doctor said they weren't using it right because they were giving the doses faster than the Narcan could react so don't believe any BS that you can tell how potent the stuff was by the number of blasts of Narcan being administered by some fool.
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That the first dose didn't resolve the problem makes it even more clear it was at most a panic attack. Accidental exposure to small quantities like that wouldn't trigger the massive OD needed for 1 shot to have no effect.
Her symptoms are also more consistent with a panic attack, but sure, we can move the needle from 99.99999% sure they're lying to 100% with a test, which narcan would not effect. It simply outcompetes opioids for opioid receptors, it doesn't metabolize them or bind to them.
When a cop has a drug problem - it is always accidental exposure.
This shit has been going on since the 60s. Standard drug warrior propaganda. Hell, earlier if you consider stuff like Reefer Madness.
I remember being told that LSD would make you try to fly out of a fifth story window, and if you survived it then you faced a lifetime of bad trip flashbacks. From a single dose.
First time trying PCB would turn you into a violent psychopath instantly. Despite the PSA videos announcing this showing PCB users literally unable to even stand up.
It's all bullshit.
The problem is that cops tend to come from the demographic that believes whatever shit the cops tell them. So a perpetuating mindset of unthink.
The problem is that cops tend to come from the demographic that believes whatever shit the cops tell them.
They also only tend to deal with the problem people. If 1 out of 1000 people on PCP loses their mind and tears up the block, that's the only one the cops see at all.
So much this. Whenever I hear cops talk about how bad them demon drugz are, I really want to ask them about sample bias. Of course the drug users they deal with tend to be severely messed up, but that doesn't make them representative of drug users in general. People who use responsibly don't get the cops called, and go out of their way not to advertise their use.
Yeah, getting the cops called is one of the worst buzzkills.
"I really want to ask them about sample bias."
You're expecting the bottom 10% of high school grads, with maybe an associate degree in policing, to understand any of them fancy words you just used?
The story of attempting to fly out of a fifth story window came from the report that Art Linkletter's daughter supposedly tried to do so while tripping on LSD. There is no confirmation this actually happened.
I took LSD only a few times and found it to be mildly entertaining. when you understand what is taking place it becomes less than astounding.
As with most drugs the dose is the culprit.
I only did LSD once. And not voluntarily. Someone dropped a quarter tab in my beer as a joke. Hah. Hah. But no adverse consequences. No flashbacks. Wasn't even a bad trip, just "whoa, this beer must be strong cuz I'm buzzing like crazy".
a quarter tab
I'm surprised you even noticed. I didn't know you could dose it that small.
Art Linkletter's daughter was depressed and suicidal. She had attempted suicide several times before, and finally found a suicide method that no one can bring you back from - jumping from the 5th floor. Her father was in denial and made the ridiculous claim that she thought she could fly because of LSD. Unfortunately, he was a TV personality that could spread his delusion to tens of millions of viewers.
I remember those stories too, except PCP not only made you violent but also inhumanly strong. A Hulk drug, basically.
And then there was a drug that supposedly made you into a cannibal…because one person one time ate part of someone’s face after the taking it. I guess the idea he might just be a lunatic even when not on anything never occurred to anyone.
And remember bath salts? Hopelessly addictive and would cause heart arrhythmias or strokes. But millions of people use bath salts and the only effects they experience are softer skin and smelling like lavender.
PCP also caused that one mother to deep fry her infant. When I was a kid in the 70s.
I heard that infant was quite succulent due to her basting technique. Pretty impressive for some broad wacked out on PCP.
two different kinds of bath salts -- the bathing ones and then the drugs that were DISGUISED AS BATH SALTS.
Now I feel like an asshole for being so hard on that clerk at Bed, Bath, and Beyond when I made a return.
"Local news outlets lapped it up (the story, not the fentanyl)"
I question the veracity of this statement.
Hmmm. What is the actual science regarding fentanyl contact high?
Fentanyl is a bad thing--it kills. Why Reason seems to have a hard-on for fentanyl hysteria (would you like to come in contact with it?).
Fentanyl is a bad thing–it kills.
Lots of things kill. What’s special about fentanyl?
Why Reason seems to have a hard-on for fentanyl hysteria
Because they have a thing about prohibition and the sort of law enforcement panics that are detrimental to liberty, like this one is.
What's so special about fentanyl---it is used to lace things like pot, and it winds up killing people--lots of them.
What's special is that it is the current thing that everyone wants to freak out about. That's not to say that it isn't a dangerous drug (particularly if people don't know exactly what they are getting).
Reason has a thing for whatever the latest drug hysteria is and I think it is something they actually cover pretty well.
That’s not to say that it isn’t a dangerous drug
It's an extremely dangerous drug, and if opium were legal there would almost certainly be no recreational market for it at all.
I suspect that if fentanyl was available from pharmaceutical companies dispensed in consistent safe legal recreational doses, it would be quite popular. Where opium, morphine, heroin, oxicontin, etc., slowly trickle across the blood-brain barrier, fentanyl rushes across it. Drug users that live for the "rush" of an opiate first hitting the brain in an effective quantity should be able to get that from a tiny dose of fentanyl, as compared with shooting up with a huge dose of heroin to get the same initial effect on the brain. The dose of fentanyl would be very cheap if it was sold under regulations similar to alcohol and adult-only non-prescription drugs, and white market fentanyl would like other legal drugs, dangerous only when you choose to take several times the recommended dose.
But on the black market, you never know what dose you are actually taking. It's difficult to consistently measure such tiny quantities as are appropriate for fentanyl by hand, so the strength varies widely and unpredictably. One packet might be too weak and the next one will kill you, even from the same batch and the same seller. That's because it's measured out and cut (diluted) by gangsters rather than by an automated factory. Beyond that, it isn't sold as fentanyl but as black market drugs that are supposed to _not_ be fentanyl. A tiny dab of fentanyl costs much less than the heroin it replaces, but can give nearly the same effect - if it was measured right and mixed completely. But accuracy and thoroughness aren't typical characteristics of the losers gangs hire to do their scut work...
it is used to lace things like pot
Huh. When I was kid it was PCP that was supposedly laced into everything, because drug dealers of course get a kick out of giving people things they don't want for free.
Nevertheless, never in my life have I ever heard of this actually happening in reality.
But even if it were happening, do you know what the solution would be? Legalizing all of it, so you actually know what you're getting.
When I walk into a liquor store and by a bottle of whiskey, I know it's 40% alcohol, not 5 or 90. I can also be confident it's whiskey, not coffee or kerosene.
Bullshit.
From WebMD
"According to the Ontario Harm Reduction Network (OHRN), there have been no laboratory-confirmed cases of fentanyl laced cannabis. The rumor that drug dealers lace weed with fentanyl to cause clients to develop drug addiction is not substantiated, or financially sound. According to OHRN, fentanyl has a high-profit margin, whereas marijuana has a low-profit margin. In other words, lacing marijuana with fentanyl wouldn't make financial sense."
https://www.webmd.com/connect-to-care/addiction-treatment-recovery/fentanyl-laced-weed-myths
Plus, given the uncertainties of dosing, how would dealers manage to giver buyers exactly the right amount? Too little and they'd never notice, too much and they maybe die. That doesn't really sound like a workable business model.
Drug dealers lacing pot with fentanyl is one of the dumbest posts I’ve seen here in awhile, and sarc posts here multiple times per day
HA! Thanks for this. Needed a hearty morning laugh
Fentanyl is a good thing. It's used regularly in all hospitals for surgeries and pain management. Here's a toxicologist on the science.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/second-opinions/101577
Fentanyl is a good thing. It’s used regularly in all hospitals for surgeries and pain management.
^
Yeah, let's yank something out of context---you want to deal with handling the stuff--no thanks.
Nobody asked you to. The point is that it is not some uniquely horrible danger to police if they take a few basic precautions. Fentanyl is not a great drug for people to be using recreationally and is leading to lots of ODs and such. That doesn't mean we should tolerate or fail to question exaggerations and lies about it.
Yeah, let’s yank something out of context
Who's yanking anything out of context? Your statement was "fentanyl is bad," which is objectively untrue.
Doctors, nurses, and pharmacists seem to have zero trouble handling it safely. It probably helps that they know exactly what it is and how to handle it properly. It only becomes dangerous when it hits the black market, where it's usually impossible to know the dosing or purity with any confidence. In other words, it's prohibition that makes it dangerous.
Please do not forget that pharmaceutical fentanyl comes as a sterile liquid for injection.
Or encased in the adhesive of a patch to be applied to the skin.
The hospital would never in a million years have powdered fentanyl.
The kind that could be aerosolized and inhaled
Or smoked.
My dad had patches for his neuropathy.
You know who else said "It's a good thing!"?
Dr Mengele?
Martha Stewart.
Yup. Again, fentanyl-laced lollipops.
Absorption of dry fentanyl through skin is impossible.
Inhalation of dust, on the other hand, is plausible and even more rapid than IV or oral.
Police are uniquely susceptible to fentanyl. It is well known that near overdoses on donuts lead to a tipping point outcome on any nearby fentanyl.
+
"Whatever the solution to our overdose crisis may be, it's not misleading the public."
Ironic.
Transdermal onset is rather slow, youd know you were having issues long before it became serious.
Inhaled, oral, or intraocular exposures are a different matter entirely.
I dont know exactly what hapoened here, but neither does Dr. Shackforbrains.
Funny how reticense and skepticism are so predictably unbalanced here.
You may not know exactly what happened here but anyone with two functioning brain cells and a little knowledge about toxicology knows what didn't happen. If the cop had been exposed to enough fentanyl to cause the symptoms described in the police press release, there is no possible way that the same cop could have recovered in the way or at the timing also described in that press release.
Interesting how only police officers overdose in this manner. It's never happened to an non-cop. Ever.
Yeah, how exactly do users and dealers survive long enough to even come in contact with cops?
This is one of those deals were anyone who knows anything about drugs knows the cops are completely full of shit. Thing is, if you know anything about drugs you’ve already learned to distrust cops so it won’t change your mind about anything.
That leaves people who are clueless about chemicals, and cop suckers. The two overlap greatly on a Venn diagram.
We once broke a 5-ml vial of butyl mercaptan standard, half full at the time, inside the GC part of our lab. The smell wafted to the building next door and two secretaries had to be taken away in ambulances, both fainting and feeling like they were going to die.
You could drink the stuff. They had heart palpitations and one vomited. Suggestion can be a powerful thing.
You could drink the stuff. They had heart palpitations and one vomited. Suggestion can be a powerful thing.
Turns out that, all these years, there was massive population of intellectually-weak, borderline psychotic, and panic-prone useful idiots in our midst who thought everyone should wear masks 24/7.
We know from the George Floyd incident this is a harmless combination. Are we sure another officer didn’t accidentally touch her with his knee?
That would be rape, not an overdose.
Unless they report the results of a forensic drug test on the officer in question there is simply no evidence that the incident was due to fentanyl. And even if there was fentanyl in the officer's blood, urine or saliva it still doesn't prove it was from ambient fentanyl at the crime scene. What's striking about all this is that police who would never seriously convince an honest prosecutor to bring charges based on the flimsiest of hearsay evidence like this, nevertheless feel comfortable making ridiculous claims in public. If I were a police officer, I would be embarrassed to admit that I had fainted on duty!
In none of the initial stories does anybody so much as question whether what they're seeing is actually being caused by exposure to fentanyl. The officer was wearing gloves, but it was windy, and police argue that it's possible she breathed the fentanyl in. Officers on the scene say they gave her three doses of Narcan. They brought her to the hospital, where she fully recovered. She is now fine.
Tell us more about officer Sicknick.
Every other story these asshats would be demanding the cops believe the person having an episode no questions asked. Demand they be consistent, fine, but this is taking an inverse position based on the person involved.
FYI, if it weren't for "experts say" there probably wouldn't have been a covid pandemic, and the Twitter Implosion would just be the heated fever dream of blue check journalists.
Reefer madness meets soccer flopping, produced by Jussie Smollett.
There was a case where a technician spilled a bottle of liquid fentanyl all over themselves and nothing happened. BTW the hysteria about the colored pills is also bullshit. They started coloring the pills so if some dealer ground them up and put them in cocaine it would color it. It's actually a safety measure!
Liquid is likely safer than powdered; you can’t easily inhale liquid.
Fentanyl is obviously dangerous but lately there has been another such drug, Xylazine, an animal tranquilizer, mixed in with the drugs. According to reports, this particular drug can render Narcan useless. It is now being found in fentanyl laced drugs across the nation and O.D./ deaths are being linked with it. It is used as a tranquilizer and pain medicine for animals such as horses and cattle, which indicates how strong it is and how easily it can take someone down.
Good to know. We should stock up in case SQRLSY goes on a rampage.
This is bullshit. Fentanyl can to be absorbed via cutaneous exposure. In fact, one of the most common medical uses for fentanyl is via transdermal patches with controlled release. We used to use them all the time for chronic pain. Before correcting someone the author needs to do her own fucking research.
Patches have chemicals like DMSO that let the drugs be absorbed through the skin. Even then it's absorbed slowly not all at once like these instances imply.
Depending on even the oral preparation it can still be absorbed via the dermous
The oral medication that is usually prescribed is buffered so that is absorbed in the small intestine, but in it's pure form it can be absorbed across any mucous membrane or via the dermis into surface capillaries. Just about any active ingredient of any medication in it's pure form can be absorbed via both mucous membranes and dermal, especially if you have a cut or abrasion.
Patches do not contain DMSO
They do not contain anything to enhance absorption
Also, if inhaled it will absorb via the mucous membranes of the nose, can also be absorbed via the mucous membranes of the eye. Also, I can guarantee you if she was admitted they did a tox screen to see how much she absorbed. That would be one of the first things they would do on admit. Fentanyl has a longer half life than narcan. In OD cases, they usually have rebound OD after narcan is administered and you have to readminister it. Narcan doesn't destroy the opoid in the blood stream it just competes with the opoid receptors in the brain, but it has a very short half life.
The author never said that fentanyl can't be absorbed cutaneously. What the author did say is that cutaneous exposure takes longer and requires a much higher amount than is even possibly compatible with the police department's press-release version of events.
Have you watched the video?
Some notes: -They give her 3 doses of narcan. My understanding is that’s a rather unreasonably large amount for even an intentional, direct consumption OD.
-When they give her the first dose, she can clearly be seen flinching in response to having narcan shot up her nose. This certainly isn’t perfectly conclusive but, again my understanding is that opioids specifically diminish naso-pharyngeal reflex action.
-She literally starts breathing forcefully instantly as the narcan enters her nose. I’ve seen people knocked out by anyhdrous spills. I’ve seen people slowly stop breathing (and require O2) from fentanyl. The sudden, forceful or labored breathing (and flinching) makes it seem much more like a typical blackout or fainting spell from low blood sugar or blood pressure or similar.
-I’m seriously getting to the point where I’m going to start beating people to death about diffusion mechanics. It’s really kinda disgusting that Hitler gassed 12M Jews *in chambers*, and we went through 2019-2020 and people still don’t understand how diffusion works. The wind did not cause the OD, that’s not how it works.
Has anyone tried the new thing tianeptine? They're calling it gas station heroin because it's legal in most states and you can buy it at the gas station.
What is the purpose of this article? Seems like the author might be in the fentanyl trade.
Clicks. The only purpose is clicks.
What is wrong about scaring people by lying to them? I watch "To Catch a Smuggler" on NatGeo. CPB agents routinely put items inside the clear plastic box to test, if they suspect fentynal. It is far more powerful than heroin. My understanding is that that lethal amount of fentynal is a fraction of heroin.
That is scary.
When I was a kid, I hated the TB scratch test. Once, at the doctor's office, I ran for the door, as the nurse was putting the device on her thumb.
While I was struggling with several nurses, my mother said, "You're Aunt Elizabeth died of TB."
I stopped struggling.
I found out from my father, about 40 years later, that my Aunt Elizabeth died of a brain aneurysm, at age 39.
My mother lied about her sister's death. But, I willingly did all of the scratch tests at every physical.
The government is not our mother (or father and definitely not our big brother) and adults are, by definition, not kids.
If governments and government agents (police, bureaucrats) did just two things: stopped treating adults like children and stopped acting like the parents of all of us, the world would be a much better place. And libertarians probably would not exist. Because they wouldn’t have to because people would have real freedom.
Are you fucking kidding me? Why in the world would you ever choose to frequent a libertarian site and ask that question?
Because we’re adults and make our own decisions you idiot. If you want to live that way, then fine. How about I decide what’s safe for you, as I am likely far more intelligent (based on your moronic comment)?
Would you like that?
It seems to be true, but who knows?, that the drug pushers are adding Fentanyl. The questions is why would they do that?
Killing your customers by adding fentanyl to other drugs seems like a bad business proposition. Maybe there's another agenda going on related to the demographics of the person that's dying.
Why did prohibition era bootleggers sell whiskey instead of beer? Because it's easier to hide a pint of whiskey than ten pints of beer. With any prohibited substance, dealers and smugglers prefer more concentrated versions, because they're more compact and easier to conceal. Consumer preference is less of a factor, since black markets commonly feature monopolies backed by violence. Since users can't just go to that other dealer across the street, they take what they can get.
Just wondering, why run interference in favor of fentanyl? This is America's krokodil. It isn't a recreational drug; it's drug induced suicide. There's no purpose in legalizing it, nobody seeks out fentanyl voluntarily, and if the feds should be doing anything about drugs, it's dealing with fentanyl.
You can be pro drug legalization and anti fentanyl.
You can be pro drug legalization and anti-fentanyl. You can also be anti-panic and not pro-fentanyl. But you can't be more retarded.
Pot calling the kettle black if you think it's a good idea to be carefree handling any drug that you don't intend to consume for yourself.
You realize that statement means you agree that you're retarded either way, right?
Why run interference in favor of the truth? Because some people still highly value the truth, and objective truth tends to be the domain of those advocating an END to the costly, destructive and utterly failed Drug War.
Conversely, DISHONESTY and/or outright ignorance tends to be the signature of those whose livelihoods depend on keeping the Drug War going...as evidenced by this probable panic attack 'rebranded' into fear-stoking prohibitionist propaganda. I mean, seriously: when the cops quickly and voluntarily release (and promote!) bodycam footage, that's a HUGE red flag that informs us to treat the footage and the cops' motives with extreme skepticism!
Ignoring for now the poor comparison of 'Krokodil' (rotgut bathtub gin) and fentanyl (lab-grade 190 proof grain alcohol), perhaps address this: 'There's no purpose in legalizing it' then 'you can be pro-drug legalization and a selective Prohibitionist.' Maybe it's just me, but that's kind of illogical and contradictory.
Sort of irrelevant anyway, when you consider fentanyl IS already legal - it's a C-II drug - more loosely regulated and purportedly less addictive than Cannabis, which is C-I (the most tightly controlled schedule.)
So, see what I mean? Illogical and contradictory. Drug Warriors are ideologically-driven zealots with complete disregard for truth, science and evidence of any kind! Go brush up on the intracacies of the Controlled Substances Act if you don't believe me.
LOL
You're not running interference in favor of truth. You just have some kind of mental impingement that has lead you to the conclusion that you have to defend fentanyl because the police don't provide as nuanced an explanation as you would like and you see that as part of the larger problem with legalization of safer drugs like weed and shrooms. Society at large used to call this being a contrarian, where your viewpoints are informed by what you are opposed to instead of what you believe in.
Fentanyl is dangerous to handle whether police dramatize it or not. Attacking police for caring about genuine occupational safety issues is absurd.
It's the feds "doing something" about drugs that created the market for illicit fentanyl. You're right that most users don't even want it. They'd much prefer pure heroin or other drugs. Problem is, black markets tend to be dominated by violently enforced monopolies, so consumer preference matters a lot less than it does in legal markets.
We were a lot better off when people only abused prescription pain medication.
Because fentanyl has medical value. It shouldn't be demonized out of hand. My mothet in law dying of lung cancer takes it and it helps her tremendously
Did she file for permanent disability?
Winner
If you do powder or pill drugs, go to Dance Safe and order a 10 pack of test strips. Problem solved for you.
Here in Florida, fentanyl test strips are considered drug paraphernalia and are illegal to possess
Mark your calendars. On this day, Reason decided that the "experts" know what they're talking about and should be heeded (because, something something supports the conclusion they're after).
Did I just read through an entire comment section without a single spambot? I don't know what's going on here, but I like it.
Did ANYONE at the scene OR hospital think to run a simple blood draw then do a tox panel on HER blood within an appropriate time frame?
If not I call politics on the whole incident. Had the contact been "acting strangely" you can bet pictures of Ben Franklin piled high against stale cop donut holes they'd have done precisely that. They need to KNOW how much of what is in the contact's blood. This copper was "acting strangely" (passing out is not normal activity) so DID they treat her the same way?
Until this is done its all spculation and brown stuff piled high with pitchforks.
The Washington Post is running a series of articles about the impact of fentanyl laced drugs in Mexico.
What does that have to do with this case?
While the article is the technically correct for fentanyl, it is wrong for a more potent version of fentanyl (“carfentanyl”).
Carfentanyl can be 100 times as potent as fentanyl, or 10,000 times as potent as morphine. The lethal dose is under 1mg. It is not improbable that in some circumstances an officer could inhale a milligram of carfentanyl.
https://www.dea.gov/press-releases/2016/09/22/dea-issues-carfentanil-warning-police-and-public
For comparison, the lethal dose is significantly less than that of Sarin military nerve agent.
I had HAZMAT training that addressed this. The hazmat experts were sufficiently concerned (including by a case like this in their own state), that they stopped all field drug tests due to the danger – instead sending the material to the lab, where it could be handled safely.
BTW. this training was five years ago, but carfentanyl never seems to be discussed in the media.
It is not improbable that in some circumstances an officer could inhale a milligram of carfentanyl.
You're a fucking retard. Retarded to the point that it's obvious to anyone with half a brain that you don't know dick about what you're saying and that you haven't taken hazmat training. If you had, you'd know about lethal doses, relative doses, routes of administration, clearance rates, inhalation rates, exposure times, etc. instead of just pretending that you heard that 1 mg was a lethal dose without regard to route of administration or the person consuming it and that she somehow inhaled a mg of it in the open air in a strong breeze without stuffing it up her nose.
You. dumb. fuck.
CARfentanyl. The kind found in cars. Much more powerful than a nuclear bomb mixed with underarm deodorant (the roll on kind).
The media and law enforcement are spreading propaganda as they have done for decades, e.g. Reefer Madness type over-the-top stuff. Not using any drug ever makes one an expert you know.
Now we see why women should not be police officers.
I agree. These retards are trying to control the narrative.
I agree with you that meso man is a brain dead idiot.
However carfentanyl is truly, unbelievably potent.
It has Found a place in veterinary medicine for large animals because it is dosed in micrograms per ton of body weight.
So if you want to anesthetize a rhino or an elephant carfentanyl would be a possible choice.
The other analogues of fentanyl, like sufentanyl, have been approved for human use but even they are too potent and have not found widespread acceptance.
To Meso man,
Carfentanyl has not found its way into the illicit drug trade, yet.
It has Found a place in veterinary medicine for large animals because it is dosed in micrograms per ton of body weight.
Which is more deadly, 1 molecule of carfentanyl or 1 molecule of COVID and how many masks should I wear outdoors to avoid dying from it?
You will need magic force fields.
I cannot read much of these stories because my eyes keep rolling back into my head. I am afraid they will freeze that way.
This should have gotten some love
So Reason, what makes you the expert? You seem to have all the answers. You may now be facing a defamation suit for your ignorance.
LOL. You should sue
You know who else thought they had all the answers about drugs? Green Arrow, that’s who!
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My god the comments...the conservatives that have never done drugs will tell you all about how dangerous they are.
Typical big L response. Poison the well with zero proof. So much for caring about truth.
Fentanyl is a risky proposition due to the concentration level and potential dosing issues based in variations in individual batches. I posted a link upthread to Reason’s interview with an anesthesiologist from a few years ago.
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I will say that drug dealers do seem to be lacing their illegal products with fentanyl.
Those west point cadets recently bought what they thought was cocaine, and they all collapsed and neearly died when it turned out there was powdered fentanyl mixed in with it.
My question is why would the drug dealers do that?
Even if fentanyl were cheaper than cocaine, and putting some fentanyl in your supposed cocaine means you can sell more of it, it doesn’t make much sense if you’re killing off your customers.
Why not dilute your cocaine with other stimulants like amphetamine, caffeine, or even Sudafed?
Can anyone explain economics of substituting a drug with such high lethality in your drugs?
Has it ever occurred to you that some drug dealers are irrational? Stop pretending this is an econ classroom where everyone involved makes perfectly informed decisions. We're already dealing with a less intelligent and risk averse subset of the population that has no qualms in breaking the law to this extent. You really think all dealers give a shit? I'm not worried at all about the local guy you get weed from, but all the hard drugs? They're already killing their clients.
Yeah, most of,these people aren’t geniuses. And I doubt most of them have any background in chemistry.
It’s not like they’re all Walter White.
Welcome to conspiracy 101.
The fentanyl comes from Communist China.
Fentanyl kills a lot of military aged young men.
Communist China is planning things that might provoke a military response from any president not already owned by the CCP.
Or congress. Which is rapidly turning into a wholly owned subsidiary of the CCP.
Panic attack, huh? And they had to administer her 3 shots of Narcans to revive her? I hope you understand how stupid the author of this article is.
The government's 2022 version of Reefer Madness
Great movie if you need a laugh!
Showtime aired a musical version of Reefer Madness around 15 years ago starring Kristen Bell.
"approach, taking note that there is an "ongoing debate between law enforcement and some in the medical community who say it's nearly impossible to overdose on fentanyl at crime scenes." "
So a debate between cops and people who actually know what they're talking about.
...unless the officer tries some! Quick high on the cheap and on the job.
Cops are paid to kill people who are slow to follow orders. Hundreds of Reason videos obtained from body cams prove this by induction. The principle was first spelled out by Lysander Spooner. The quickest way to set murderers on people is to ban some harmless thing they enjoy. Once they're dead, cops and politicians tell newscasters it was for "the common good before the individual good." That makes killing people by the millions OK by altruistic standards.
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The police are not on our side.....
Input from medical professionals treating ODs at hospitals would be appreciated wrt this issue.
SO do it. Go there with a body cam and get some answers.
Back when LSD was cutting into Coors and Anheuser profits, Dana Farnsworth (not the guy in Futurama) spewed: Accumulating evidence “demonstrates beyond question that these drugs have the power to damage the individual psyche, indeed cripple it for life..." This was rebroadcast by AMA and became settled science. Few know that water has the power to promptly kill half of all who drink 2 gallons in one sitting. What nobody asks is: How dangerous is an enjoyable compared to the live ammo cops fire to suppress it?
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