Markets Aren't Perfect, but Government Is Worse
The free market allows people to cooperate, fix errors, and adapt to changing circumstances.

I was recently reminded of a profound truth about the free market and the prices that sit at its center. Unfortunately, this truth is often overlooked by both critics of the market economy and by economists like myself. This simple truth is that the price system works thanks to and only because of a set of institutions that promote cooperation among us.
As an economist, I'm accustomed to making the case that free markets, although imperfect, are a better alternative than government intervention. It goes something like this:
The free market's price system, along with competition by sellers for customers and by consumers for good deals, play an essential role in gathering and processing the information about our economy that is dispersed among millions of buyers and sellers. The resulting prices are a measurement of how much people value goods and services.
In a well-functioning competitive market, this argument continues, these critical price "reports" tell us the most advantageous ways to use finished goods and services, intermediate goods, raw materials, and—importantly—human time and talent, and lead entrepreneurs to produce what we want most intensely as efficiently as possible. In economics terms, prices convey information about scarcities and about wealth-creating incremental substitutions.
It's a mind-blowing system where, as French political scientist Frederic Bastiat reminded us decades ago, although no one plans it, "Paris gets fed daily."
Enter Samuel Gregg and his wonderful new book, The Next American Economy. Gregg's case for the free market goes beyond the classic economic argument.
He writes that "the case for free markets involves rooting such an economy in what some of its most influential Founders thought should be America's political destiny; that is, a modern commercial republic." He adds that "politically, this ideal embodies the idea of a self-governing state in which the governed are regularly consulted; in which the use of the state power is limited by strong commitments to constitutionalism, the rule of law, and private property rights; and those citizens consciously embrace the specific habits and disciplines needed to sustain such a republic."
Yes! I like to believe I'm a great advocate for markets, but whenever I omit these last points, I sabotage my own case. For one thing, terms like "competitive markets" give the impression of a heartless process. But the most important aspect of this competitive process is cooperation.
Indeed, massive cooperation happens daily across the globe. Consider, say, the shirt you're wearing. It perhaps is made of cotton from Texas and thread from Canada, stitched together in Vietnam and shipped to you in a vehicle assembled in Japan.
Imagine the trust built into such a cooperative system. That's partly the product, as Gregg explains, of the existence of property rights: the exclusive authority to determine how a resource is used. Will you sell your labor time to Apple or to John Deere? Will you spend your income on a Toyota or on a Harley? Underpinning it all is the rule of law, which gives to each person security in his or her property rights. The law must be clear, well-known, and stable.
No serious free marketer believes that markets are perfect. We aren't utopians. Unfortunately, perfect markets and perfect competition are often the starting point of economic textbooks. This rosy starting point leads many to conclude that when conditions are less than perfect, the best course of action for a correction is government intervention. It's wrong.
Not only is government itself imperfect, as anyone can plainly see, but the market is a process to find and fix errors. A market imperfection is an opportunity for entrepreneurs to profit. As Arnold Kling recently wrote, "Markets fail. Use markets." That's because, Kling adds, "entrepreneurial innovation and creative destruction tends to solve economic problems, including market failures."
This isn't to say that the government plays no role aside from protecting property rights. But it means that faith in government intervention should be tempered with an acknowledgment of government's own flaws, including a tendency to favor one group of people over another and an inability to adapt when policies fail or circumstances change.
The bottom line is that when we talk about the "free market," it is a shorthand for a combination of institutions that allow people to cooperate, tolerate one another, live in peace, and flourish. As Gregg reminds us, all these elements are a quintessential part of what President George Washington envisioned for the new nation he led and described as "a great, a respectable & a commercial nation."
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We don’t have anything resembling a free market though. What we have is corporatism.
Look at our health care system as the biggest example. Somehow we pay almost twice as much by GDP for healthcare than any other nation, yet a good chunk of the country has no access.
The Democrats solution was more corporatism with Obamacare. The Republicans don’t think there is a problem.
Who does not have access?
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"We don’t have anything resembling a free market though. What we have is corporatism."
No it is more straight up command economy. Dodd-Frank, Public Education, ACA, and the Federal Budget have rendered roughly 50 - 60% of GDP to the decisions of regulators and bureaucrats. They determine what will be produced, and often the prices that will be paid for the items.
"yet a good chunk of the country has no access."
Unless you live in the bottom of the grand canyon, you have access to health care. Do you have 100% of your potential bills covered? No. But we are coming to find that no one does anyways.
No it is more straight up command economy.
Bullshit. No commissars are telling farmers what to grow. No government official tells New Balance what kind of sneakers to make. No one in DC is dictating prices. We've got a mostly-free market where some sectors are subject to more government meddling than others. But if you really think we've got a command economy, then you need to learn what that actually means.
“They mostly come at night. Mostly…..”
Overt is not wrong but we can surely quibble about the degree to which we have a command economy.
Look at automobiles now. The big 3 mfg's are moving to production of far more electric vehicles. Why is that? The GOV along with ESG pushes etc are driving the decision making.....NOT pure free market forces. In fact no one in the general marketplace is organically crying out for more electric vehicles.....it is being driven in various ways by gov policy coercion. These car companies are going along with it under threat of more gov regulation, taxes, restrictions, etc by gov officals.....just one example.
That's regulation. "If you want to sell cars, here's the rules you must follow."
As opposed to a command economy. "You're going to make 10,000 trucks, 50,000 cars..."
What republicans don’t think there is a problem?
The Republicans don’t think there is a problem.
You only come to this conclusion becasue you obviously think that ONLY gov can solve these problems. I think the solution lies in allowing MORE free market freedom in the health care sector and far LESS gov intrusion. In order to implement something like that, politicians have to back off....NOT "do something". Sometimes doing nothing is the best answer.
You do realize a lot of is government involvement right? I was with a medical assist while she was in school. The charge codes were a text book thing. It's insane how everything has to be billed.
Republicans think there is an issue. It's just Democrats stop fixes.
Also funny how many people don't pay. Side story - I had surgery at the beginning of Sept. The hospital said I owed $2500 for my share. But if I paid it all that day, it was only $2000. I never had a 20% discount before
Unfortunately, there's a market for government where consumers are free to choose the sort of government they'd like. They choose poorly.
But, there isn’t. There’s no market from the consumer standpoint at all. You have one choice, no alternative, take it or… well, there is no or. Just take it.
And if you think elections are a “choice” they aren’t. That’s still someone else choosing for me. It’s only a choice if the individual consumer can decide on a different service provider.
There’s no way in hell I’d choose my current government. That gets chosen in Los Angeles and the bay area and there is nothing, ever, I’ll be able to do about it. They’ve effectively gerrymandered the entire system so no actual alternatives even appear on the ballot anymore.
There isn't really a market for government. There are governments of various structures, with various means of public participation embedded. Those under dictatorship get no choice at all.
But I totally take your point-- public participants are fully capable of shooting themselves in the privates when it comes to their participation in government, and seem to do it all the time.
Yes, you do. Markets stand on fundamental individual rights: property rights, right to freely associate, including right to contract.
To the extent that government exists to secure those rights, it’s helpful to functioning, efficient markets that bring prosperity to all. But that is beside the point. We don’t protect fundamental individual rights because it results in a booming economy. We do it because it is a moral imperative; because it is unambiguously the right thing to do.
She also sabotages her fundamentals with this "This isn't to say that the government plays no role aside from protecting property rights" which is an unlimited entry point for big government interference. Anything beyond protecting the fundamentals of free markets and reducing fraud (so informed decisions, even if with imperfect facts) gives the State cause to meddle.
D'accord. Market transparency-- reduction of fraud and deceptive practices-- is a stickier, more complex issue. It requires market-specific knowledge and nuance, two things government uses almost exclusively to get its nose in the tent and then expand its own power.
Almost all of us on this forum sometimes forget to separate goals from outcomes; principles from methods; and morals from rights. The moral principle here is that people should be as free as possible to live their lives as they prefer. Free markets and property rights are tools that may be used to promote freedom to enjoy your lives. It is a reasonable goal to want maximum prosperity for the most people possible, but it is not a fundamental principle. We can approach the goal with the proper tools and calibrate our methods based on interim outcomes. If the fundamental principle is incorrect, however, all such systems will fail.
This, this and this. Always this.
So I take it you are not a fan of equity.
I love equity! I own a bunch of equities!
Man, the definition of that word gets people tripped up an awful lot in these discussions, doesn't it?
I am not a fan of cultural appropriation of well-defined concepts in order to harness them to social reform movements. So, no.
Acknowledging govt flaws - tendency to favor one group and inability to adapt - is one thing. But the solution ain't ancap (anarchism and human nature etc). The classical liberal solution is different.
In B4 "The reason/koch "libertarians" are communists" people.
The articles about Trump, immigrants, and factory jobs are what give them wood.
> Markets Aren't Perfect, but Government Is Worse
Yes absolutely. The market is not planned, and so we don't always get what we want if we could plan it and actually have our plans works. But the alternative is always worse. A market is too complex to plan and attempts to do so inevitably fail.
But the market doesn't fail. Such an idea assumes markets have a goal they are trying to achieve. But there is no goal. Markets are nothing more than people interacting with each other.
I hate to say it yet again, but it's both sides who fall into the trap of thinking government has to "fix" market failures. Democrats are concerned over shit like credit card fees or people making more money than they do. But Republicans are concerned about labor markets and unmanaged trade. The market isn't following both parties plans for how things should be, and so the parties and demanding government fiddle with knobs and erect barriers and redirect moneys in an effort to make thing better. But inevitably makes things worse.
And here I am reliving 70s era crime and inflation and malaise all over again because government can't keep its mitts off of the economy. And it's both sides fault because this 70s-ification started before Biden. The trillion dollar helicopter drops started with the prior administration.
Fully agree that the idea of free and voluntary exchange doesn't fail, and that it's just people interacting.
But at some minimal level, we require enforcement of the exchange. If you and I agree to trade value for value, and you hand yours over to me, and I then stiff you and say you get nothing from me, then I've cheated you. You'll want recourse to make me give you what I said I would. That's the point at which we stop relying on our innate ability to menace one another, and start relying on a fixed external authority-- one that will prevent cheating and fraud.
At a very, very minimal level, I hope you'll agree that's a good thing. Unfortunately government always finds a way to extend that authority far beyond what we wanted.
In actual fact, Republicans are concerned with the horrid possibility women might possess individual rights, or that hippies, latinos and blacks might choose the "wrong" enjoyable drugs--or out-reproduce and hence replace their Aryan masters entrusted by God with the solemn responsibility of Christianizing the poor, disolute, uncovered wretches and mis'rable childish-minded apes, if they have to break ivry bone in ye’er bodies.
This isn't to say that the government plays no role aside from protecting property rights.
Certainly it plays a much larger role than this, so it's factually a true statement. It ought to only play the role of protecting property rights, though, or have no role at all.
Sorry, but this still misses the point. Government exists to protect the careers and power of politicians. While prudent citizens may still find a limited role for government as a tool to allow us to cooperate in protecting each other's equal rights under the law, they should not delude themselves that power-hungry officials will leave it at that; or that the more craven or greedy of their fellow citizens won’t try to use government to achieve their own preferences. Human instinct leads to tribalism, xenophobia and violence; but intelligence can overcome those instincts in recognition that almost everyone is better off if almost everyone finds ways to cooperate to our mutual benefit. Only if those who would use government to try to achieve their own immediate selfish ends are immediately punished by the effort through the marketplace will such a regime tend to be self-correcting, just as free markets tend to be self-correcting if left mostly alone. Theorists should concentrate on maximizing the reward-punishment system for non-cooperators.
Govt doesn't exist to be corrupted. Fatalism about that is nothing but the propaganda by those who want to corrupt it - aimed to discourage citizens from payingattention to their own self-governance responsibility. It gets corrupted when citizens don't bother to prevent and stop that corruption.
If so it's working. My sarcasm apparently missed its mark. Government may not have been implemented for the purpose of being corrupted, but in the real world government has been existing solely to enrich and empower politicians and has been throroughly corrupted. Prove me wrong. There is nothing fatalistic about my opinion. There may be some sheeple out there who wear the yoke of serfdom comfortably but I am not one of them.
I'm not buying this construct. There are no free markets. It's all a mixed economy and always ever was. Where there appears to be a "free" market, say toasters on Amazon, we don't see the hidden layers of regulation and trade tariffs and subsidies. Speaking of appliances, has anyone tried buying one on Amazon lately? It's a crapshoot. Sure, they are cheaper than ever, but their quality stinks. You get fancy digital this and that but no one markets value and reliability. You can't trust ratings anymore. And this is the norm.
Free markets left to themselves invite sharks and con-men. Government regulation isn't always the solution but left to itself, all this gamification of shopping is taking its toll. While we extoll the "efficiency" of the markets we ignore the myriad of negative externalities they produce. For one thing, they are eroding our trust in everything. When everyone is out to get you you start to distrust, well, everyone. That's a big negative externality.
You seem to be abusing the term "free markets." That term isn't the whole definition - it's shorthand for a much more comprehensive set of principles, the most important of which is "minimum interference in the billions of transactions between millions of individuals by government force." I can't recall which logical flaw it's called but substituting a slogan for a principle and applying a false attribute to the substitution so you can shoot it down is definitely a logical fallacy. The fact that a totally free market is impossible; or the fact there have never been totally free markets is irrelevant to the issue here. Limiting government regulation of transactions between individuals as much as possible maximizes the freedom of the market and - theoretically - optimizes the desired outcome.
Two problems: liars equivocate logical fallacies (does not follow) with rhetorical flourishes that make them look like... well... liars. Logic does not prove that all men are mortal, but observation and induction do. There is no way to calculate pi or radical 2. All we can do is approximate such numbers by converging closer and closer to some unknown ideal. Yet engineers still rely on trigonometry and libertarian spoiler votes continue to chip away at looter parties until they drop coercive platform planks and repeal offending laws.
I'm not buying this construct.
Am I doing it right?
"I’m not buying this construct. There are no free markets..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
It is equally true, and no more apropos, to assert that nobody will ever know the exact value of pi or radical 2. From this it does not follow that electing superstitious looter politicians to send murderers out to rob and enslave at gunpoint is, by elimination, the best possible approach to problem-solving.
"The resulting prices are a measurement of how much people value goods and services."
Who cares what people want? Elitists, nannies, and authoritarians all agree: people cannot be trusted to want the right things.
“Look at those assholes, ordinary fucking people. I hate ’em.” — Bud, Repo Man
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The Trumpists who lurk here don't think so poorly of government. For example, they want government, not consumer choice, to mold Twitter and Facebook into the companies they prefer.
The companies looter Secret Police prefer are the newspapers Orwell likened to "the really well-trained dog... the one that turns his somersault when there is no whip." Before the Second Heroin War, HL Mencken observed that "Journalism is to politician as dog is to lamp-post." That is the pre-totalitarian state of nature in which popular social media operated before 2016.
Umm, no. They want Facebook not to spy on them or sell there data.
Twitter is free to do what they want. They have a terms of service that they violate all the time. Republicans just want to be treated equal. Example - it's ok to twit Trump is Hitler/Nazi. But you get banned by twitter Liberals own words (Libs of Tik Tok)
Personally, I don't use Twitter nor care. They can post we only post Liberal items and stuff we agree with. However that is not what they try to sell
"But the market is a process to find and fix errors." Markets are good at that, but over what period of time? Will the market respond quickly enough, for example, to save or improve lives in the interim, or provide holistically adequate housing? How will markets, dependent on rational self-interest, respond to irrational behavior? Government can provide the speed or regulation (rule of law?} which markets won't. And I'm not confident in either in dealing with irrational behavior.
Picky picky picky. But "we" don't have markets, so "let's" be practical. So what'll it be? Commie Dems or fascist Grabbers Of Pussy?
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