Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses Enraged the Muslim World
In 1989, Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini called for the author and those involved in the book's publication to be put to death.

The fallout from Salman Rushdie's The Satanic Verses (1988) was even more bizarre and terrifying than the novel's opening sequence, in which a hijacked plane flying from India to Britain explodes over the English Channel and the two protagonists, Gibreel and Saladin, are transformed into an archangel and devil, respectively.
While Gibreel—who has been transformed into the archangel Gabriel—falls into the Atlantic, he has several dreams, including one about an alternate-universe founding of Islam by a man named Mahound. (Mahound, another name for Muhammad, was used by Christians in the Middle Ages.) In these visions, the emerging religion allows the worship of several goddesses, and doubt is cast on the divine nature of the prophet's words. Rushdie went so far as to name the book's prostitute characters after Muhammad's wives.
Readers later learn that these visions were sent by the devil. But the fun house–mirror image of Islam nevertheless angered much of the Muslim world. In 1989, Iranian leader Ayatollah Khomeini called for the author and those involved in the book's publication to be put to death. Clerics and government officials were, in essence, instructing Muslims to hunt and kill Rushdie, with Islamic organizations closely aligned with the government placing a $2.5 million bounty on his head.
The consequences were grim. Rushdie was put under police protection at his home in the United Kingdom for the better part of a decade. Hitoshi Igarashi, a Japanese translator for the book, was killed by an unknown attacker in 1991. An Italian translator of the book named Ettore Capriolo was stabbed (but did not die from his wounds) that same year. Aziz Nesin, a Turkish translator, was attacked by arsonists while praying with others; the fire killed 37 people, though Nesin survived.
In 1989, India banned the book, deeming it hate speech. "These persons, whom I do not hesitate to call extremists, even fundamentalists, have attacked me and my novel while stating that they had no need actually to read it," wrote Rushdie in The New York Times. "That the Government should have given in to such figures is profoundly disturbing." He noted that India's parliament described the ban as a "pre-emptive measure," since "certain passages had been identified as susceptible to distortion and misuse, presumably by unscrupulous religious fanatics and such. The banning order had been issued to prevent this misuse."
Rushdie summed up the government's tortured logic: "It is as though, having identified an innocent person as a likely target for assault by muggers or rapists, you were to put that person in jail for protection."
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "The Satanic Verses."
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My professors told me that whenever Muslims cite their faith to justify murder, the real victims are the millions of peaceful Muslims who have to endure an Islamophobic backlash.
#LibertariansAgainstIslamophobia
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Nope.
Pretty sure it's the ones they murder. The 'peaceful', yet silent majority is merely complicit. Just like the Germans who let the state go about it's business of murder.
It's England's fault! God's Little Adolph urged--according to the first pop translation of Mein Kampf--that the Jewish menace be "extirpated." Way later the 1984 U. of Chicago translation featured "exterminated" as the exact Christian verb. Hindsight again proved more reliable than cowardice and wishful thinking.
POP QUIZ: Are MAGA Christian nationalsocialists bent on extirpating or exterminating the remaining individual rights enjoyed by fewer and fewer women?
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Also I realize it's Sunday but I hope Reason.com manages at least one anti-DeSantis piece today. Our benefactor Charles Koch desperately wants to wrestle control of the GOP away from people like him and put it back in the hands of the Cheney family.
#LizCheney2024
We know Sullum's got DS-Squared (DeSantis Derangement Syndrome, aka DS2) real bad.
Wouldn't that be dds or D^2S. Don't pull a white Mike HO2. Noone likes a white mike
To be fair to Mike, Hydrogen Dioxide would probably kill you. If it could exist.
D-squared S
DeSantis already controls the LNC, so why the pants-wetting over what Sullum knows? Why not make some money publishing an exposé of how Samuel Hardin Church suffered from Bet Hoover Derangement Syndrome. Better still, explain how Winston Churchill was blinded by Hitler Derangement Syndrome as Germany struggled to free its Big Pharma of British, French and Dutch competition.
“DeSantis already controls the LNC”
Deranged as ever Hank.
If only we had a libertarian translator who could express this gibberish in a common language, English maybe?, I'm sure we would all benefit from your wisdom Hank.
Basically, we're looking for an Idiot-English Dictionary so we can translate from Idiot to English.
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Always remember that when the leftist gnomes in the bowels of Twitter ban someone like LibsOfTiktok, they really wish they could put out a Fatwa like this. Someday, they will.
What about the fatwa on Trump?
According to shrike (or was it sarcasmic), only conservative Christians want to put a fatwa on people because of their love of Trump.
Best way to get back at Brandon for kicking sand in MAGA faces is to invade Kansas, overturn tat fake election, get Hadi Matar installed as Governor there and put all non-MAGA females in reconcentrado camps. Like Billy Graham and Hitler said: "The basis of our morality is religious life..."
Kinda like how Jews react when logic and science refutes their holocaust religion.
Fuck off back to Stormfront.
It's OK. As part of the International Zionist Conspiracy, I can assure you we know where Rob Misek lives and we're working hard at replacing him.
Hopefully it’s with one of his betters. Wouldn’t want Artie to have an aneurysm.
On both counts, that wouldn't be hard. 🙂
What the fuck!?! Go FOAD, fucker.
The nazi has entered the chat.
THE GUTTER’S ALIVE WITH THE SOUND OF MISEK
Yellow Stars on Jews,
Pink Triangles on Gay Volk,
Brown Panzerwagons, und
Crystal Meth to stay woke,
Full cattle-cars und der Messerschmidt wings,
These are a few of Misek's favorite things!
Roma sweeping streets und
The infirm all sterilized,
Dreams of Lebensraum
All finally realized,
Lugers that fire und ra-zor wire that stings,
These are a few of Misek's favorite things!
Gold-teeth-plated calipers und Death's Head Insignias,
Broken-down encryption that known as Enig-mi-a,
A Thousand-Year Reich und all the joy that it brings,
These are a few of Misek's favorite things!
When Partizans resist, und untermenchen exist,
Und Misek has no smile,
Misek just thinks about all of his favorite things,
Then Misek shouts out: Seig Heil!
C'mon! Everybody sing! 🙂
What’s a jew without a Nazi?
Nothing but a liar.
Hey, Misek, here's how the creator of The Lord of the Rings responded to your fellow Nazi Orcs:
JRR Tolkien perfectly clapped back against Nazis who asked if he's Jewish
https://www.indy100.com/news/jrr-tolkien-jewish-nazi-germany
Maybe not the best polemicist in other areas, but Tolkien was a Hell of a storywriter and a Hell of a courageous man! And judging by his $Billion + Dollar estate, he never did without by refusing to brown-nose to Brownshirts!
People who encounter Woke racists in their workplace or government may want to take note and reply to them in like fashion as good ol' J.R.R. Tolkien!
Meanwhile, Misek, get ready for more wise replies and Fuck Off, Nazi!
I expect more lame replies.
What I don’t expect is for any of you lying fuckwits to refute anything I say.
Surprise me.
HOW DO YOU SOLVE A PROBLEM LIKE HERR MISEK?
Your problem is that you can’t prove what you claim or refute what you deny.
If ANY of you pea brained lying fuckwits ever did, I would never say what has been refuted ever again.
Oh dear, is the Gaslighting Gauleiter still prattling on? You know who else didn’t know when to shut up?
The sheeple are still bleating naaazi.
Herr Misek treats all problems as having Final Solutions. So I'd rather not solve problems like Herr Misek. *Rimshot on Hydrochloric acid drums.*
Ok, Ok, Ok! That was the best I could come up with in a split second. I'll work on that one. 😉
Fuckwits are still proving my point.
OK, Utkanos, I got the lyrics now:
He sees the Yggdrasil Tree and takes a knee
His Brownshirt is made of tweed.
He goosesteps listening to Rudolph Hess
And whistles Die Horst Weasel Lied.
And underneath his helmet,
He has an "SS" and "88" tattoo
I even heard him singing in the Beer Hall.
His views are not Enlightenment
But have a Nazi Weltanschaung
He's always hates Judaica
Especially what Friedman and Mises brung
I hate to have to say it
But I very firmly feel
Herr Misek's not an asset to Reason.
I'd like to say a word in his behalf
Here Misek... makes me...laugh!
How do you solve a problem like Herr Misek?
How do you catch a Reichstag and set it afire?
How do you find a word that means Herr Misek?
An Antisemite! A Totalitarian! A liar!
Many a thing you know you'd like to tell him
Many a thing about Minds and Markets Free
But how do you bid him stay
And live the Libertarian way
How do you watch The Wave on ABC?
Oh, how do you solve a problem like Herr Misek?
How do you hold a Hakenkreutz in your hand?
In a free society
Where all expressions are free
We cannot and we should not shut him down
Yet we can dissent and dispute him
Argue against him and refute him
Call him a bigot, an idiot, an assclown!
But beyond words and jest,
If Misek's ilk becomes a pest
By starting force against the NAP or NIFF
Then we shield with all our might!
We protect and then we fight!
If needed, declare war, to even the score!
'Til Misek's ilk is no more!
How do you solve a problem like Herr Misek?
How do you catch a Reichstag and set it afire?
How do you find a word that means Herr Misek?
An Antisemite! A Totalitarian! A liar!
Many a thing you know you'd like to tell him
Many a thing about Minds and Markets Free
But how do you bid him stay
And live the Libertarian way
How do you watch The Wave on ABC?
Oh, how do you solve a problem like Herr Misek?
How do you hold a Hakenkreutz in your hand?
“Yet we can dissent and dispute him
Argue against him and refute him”
You never have yet.
I won’t hold my breath.
You’ve provided us with a look through a window into the workings of your bigoted mind.
That’s something you can’t un-see.
Tolkien's reply was great. "My ethnic background doesn't matter, so shut up."
That's was and still is the correct response.
It’s not about ethnicity.
It’s about coercive behaviour, lying.
I’m simply sharing the truth that fuckwits are too stupid to realize they can’t refute.
Yet Misek still clings to "his precious...his precious..." delusions. 😉
Recognizing and accepting truth aka reality is a precious gift.
Hahaha. The fuckwits prove my point.
Being told to fuck off, yeah you're a real martyr.
Gotta love a guy who both denies the Holocaust *and* thinks that lying should be illegal. Right?
And his "go to" source to back his opinions is an author who believes Paul McCartney was assassinated and replaced with a body double.
Well, that part is real, man.
Just like David Ickes and the Lizard people.
The Holocaust was a Jewish plot to gain world sympathy and displace the Palestinian people. It all makes sense if you don't think about it.
I buried Paul
Come to think of it, that would explain why every one of his albums after Band On The Run sucks.
I thought the record said "cranberry sauce."
Well, now I'll never eat another Thwnksgiving meal without thinking of Misek and yaking up.
Haven't you got a carpet to chew on?
Pretty much everyone hates you. You are scum.
I think the only other person that comes close is buttplug for posting child porn.
You are more hated than child porn spreaders. Isn't that a hint?
Hahaha. The fuckwits keep proving my point.
I see you've torn yourself away from your Ernst Rohm stroke book long enough to make an appearance.
The fuck?
Rob Misek is a Holocaust denying Nazi. I won"t blame you for not keeping up, though. He's only good for trainwreck-level rubber-necking.
Just as similarly, refuting the holocaust religion is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred. Where the evidence that refutes it exists.
Hmmm.
Idiocy can be entertaining.
You’re just boring though.
I like to feed trolls what they can’t refute, the truth, and laugh when they choke.
Hahaha
You called for my grandfather a liar when I told you what he saw at Bergen-Belsen, because it didn't fit the creepy lies you crafted.
Hit the showers, Rob. Make sure you turn on the Zyklon-B before you go in.
Fucking Jews paid compensation for simply surviving the war in a prison camp.
Was your gramps one of the lying fuckwits who claimed to enter shirtless and drag cyanide covered bodies immediately out of huge gas chambers? With air vents and no floor drains. Or shower house with wooden doors and windows? He survived eh, even though cyanide is lethal by skin absorption. No fuckwit could have done that.
Your gramps was well paid for his bullshit story.
I know him. He didn't lie. You do.
You're a liar and a fraud pretending to have discovered an esoteric truth that's really just snake-oil.
You Jews belong to a religion that advocates lying. In a few weeks you’ll be chanting the Kol Nidre. Your holiest plan to lie. You have no shame. Everything you say is suspect.
Insanity is doing the same thing while expecting a different result. You demonstrate this with every comment you make. You should switch it up by trying to prove what you claim or refute what you deny.
Here you go. Not that you need the practice.
“All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”
Do you also lie to yourself, that the Kol Nidre is about telling God that your lies to him will be forgiven for another year?
Either you Jews are too stupid to realize that omnipresent God already knows your going to lie or the Kol Nidre demonstrates your plans to fool other people with your lies. Which is it?
Damn! I never heard about that and I won't ask you to re-tell that. Kindest thoughts to you and him and I salute his service.
My Grandfather never seen the death-camps to my knowledge, but he did recount having to recover and ride in rail cars with dead soldiers from the battlefield...all made dead by the wearers of the double lightning strike and the Hakenkreutz.
The meat-grinder of war that Hitler's Jackbooted Legions put whole nations through was awful in it's own right in addition to all the innocents the Nazis annihilated.
*All silly head gear off and kind thoughts to all who suffered and died and survived.*
The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.
These Jewish leaders are admitting it. Are they lying?
“We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.
“The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”
Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.
The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.
Jews didn't make Hitler invade Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, North Africa, Russia, and every other nation the Nazis touched.
As always, Fuck Off, Nazi!
So you’re saying those Jewish leaders lied.
What else is new?
I am saying you are a liar and delusional!
Fuck Off, Nazi!
I like feeding you bleating trolls what you can’t refute and laugh when you repeatedly choke naaazi every time.
Hahaha
For his next trick, Misek is going to make all of us turn two feet tall at 4:00.
4:00PM PST that is….probably Twilight in your Zone…
Well, this took a weird turn.
But, no Israel doesn't offer bounties on people who promote weird conspiracy theories about the Holocaust
Israel is so damn magnanimous that they don't even expel their own citizens-- mostly Grandchildren of Russian émigres--who espouse Neo-Nazism(!!!)
And the only time Israel used the death penalty was with traitor Meir Tobianski and criminal against humanity Adolf Eichmann. And Israel does all this even though still surrounded on all sides by enemies.
Just Wow!
“the IDF was one of the best trained, best financed terror organizations in the world”
Miko Peled
“Peled is no ordinary critic of current Israeli policies. He is a member of one of Israel’s elite Zionist families. His father was a famous general in the 1967 war and his grandfather was one of the signatories of the Israeli Declaration of Independence. “
Funny, Misek. The Ayatollahs and Mullahs of Iran supports your Holocaust Denial and Islam shares your Anti-Jewish hatred. And Persia was the original "Aryan" people. You should love them all.
Fuck Off Nazi!
If you find the truth painful, stop lying.
So where have I lied, you dumbass?
I don’t hate Jews you lying waste of skin. You certainly can’t prove that I do.
Love is helping someone know that their life is in order.
As a bigot, you don’t recognize that by laughing at you choking on your lies, I’m giving you the opportunity to put your misguided life in order.
S2bu.
You've called Jews "lying wastes of skin," so what is that if not hatred?
And like Oz with The Tin Man, you ain't giving me shit that I don't already have!
And has it come to that, using stupid teeny punk texter acronyms like "s2bu" ("sucks to be you?")
Well this is no acronym: Fuck Off, Nazi!
Your advocacy of the coercion of lying makes you a waste of skin.
Stop lying, denounce it along with your lying religion and you won’t be a lying waste of skin anymore.
Religion?
I am a Howling Goddamn Atheist and I have a better grasp of truth and a better idea of how to treat human beings that you and your fellow Nazis with your Positive Christianity, your friendly nods to Islam, and your Asatru Folk Assemblies!
Oh, and Fuck Off, Nazi!
If you knew anything about truth, you would demonstrate it by refuting what you deny, as I do. You never have.
Naaazis and jooos working together again just like the old days.
“We are lying about Ukraine. Soros' Foundation, NED and other fake NGOs are Brown Shirts and SS” - Lara Logan
She's a fighter! Watch the video, it's less than 10 minutes, at
http://air.tv/?v=s7uh2HB1QI64xBIwgVG6SQ
Look, the Ukrainians made a dumb mistake having the Azov Battalion and being dependent on them, but Putin has the Neo-Nazi Wagner fighters. I hope both damn units get slaughtered either in this war or after when the newly-armed and free triumphant Ukrainian Citizens rise up against tyranny of all stripes and flavors!
By the bye, Lara Logan just said that the Nazis exterminated Jews! According to you, does that not make her a liar and you a liar for spreading her words?
You are not only a Nazi, but a damn dumb one too! Fuck Off, Damn Dumb Nazi!
In the video Logan said hundreds of thousands of Jews died in the holocaust, not six million. It’s entirely possible that a couple hundred thousand Jews died during WW2. That’s not the holocaust lie you repeatedly bleat.
If you knew anything about truth, you would demonstrate it by refuting what you deny, as I do. You never have.
The western created coup and regime change in Ukraine in 2014 and resulting 8 years of bloody civil war on Russias border could not have occurred without the west funding and using unscrupulous Jews and Nazis working together.
We live in the age of outrage. Even (especially?) serious people promote rage over reason, and tell us over and over how this time the crisis is so bad that only moral derelicts would resist the strident righteous instigators and the mouth-foaming mob.
Have we ever not lived in the age of outrage? Pretty much as long as humanity can remember, people have killed outrageous people.
No, outraged people kill people.
The level of outrage has mirrored the rate of news distribution. Word of mouth, then newspapers, radio, tv, 24 hr tv, and now the internet. Could it get worse?
Superstition ain't the way.
'My fairy tale is the best fairy tale' is a poor showing for even an ostensible adult.
Carry on, clingers.
Speaking of superstition, Kirkland, if I divide 96 genders by white supremacy, how much climate change will I have?
You end up with a Rate of 300k illegal immigrants per week
42
I got 4.2 but I think I forgot to carry something somewhere.
The water for Brandon perhaps?
You should know, following leftist superstition, clinger.
Another loudmouthed Make America Grab anus offers valuable assertions for more than they're worth.
Peyote today, Hank?
Nah, I’m pretty sure he’s doing stem research
Brain stem research. On himself.
More like magical mushroom stems, amirite?
That just about caps it off!
Sadly, Hank had some light in him once and said many things cromulent with Libertarianism, but it became all the same list of subjects and gradually has gotten more and more bizarre and gobbledegook-y as the years have gone by.
Let this be a lesson to younger Libertarians: It takes sober people to fight for the right to party!
You should get help with your anal fixation. Or just die.
'My fairy tale is the best fairy tale'
Speaking of fairy tales, Art, whatever happened to your belief that Biden would expand the Supreme Court to 13 within 6 months of inauguration? It's more than a year past your timetable and all he's done is replace an old retiring justice with a younger one. 🙁
Was that prediction based on what you learned at Harvard Law's court expansion theory lectures? Or was there an element of "this is true because I want it to be true" influencing your analysis?
Open wider, asshole.
Your betters will be shoving even more progress, reason, inclusiveness, science, education, and modernity down the throats of faux libertarian, right-wing bigots like you.
You get to whine about it as much as you like, of course . . . but you will continue to comply, clinger. Thank you for your continuing obedience with respect to the preferences of better Americans (the liberal-libertarian mainstream, victors in the culture war).
Disaffected, deplorable, powerless right-wingers may be my favorite culture war casualties.
There’s the homophobic hate filled screed we’ve all come to expect from Artie.
Your betters will be shoving even more progress, reason, inclusiveness, science, education, and modernity
Like critical theory and gender studies?
Like reason over childish superstition.
Like inclusiveness over insularity.
Like science over silly dogma.
Like education over backwater ignorance.
Like progress over backwardness.
Like modernity over pining for illusory good old days.
Like tolerance over bigotry.
Everything right-wingers hate (and better Americans have been using to shape our national progress for more than a half-century of American improvement, over the objections of conservative culture war losers).
The culture war is not quite over but has been settled. For right-wingers, the only respite from all of this damned progress will be replacement.
So how much Jesus altruist v Chomsky altruist turd-flinging is enough to drive readers away from the only Libertarian magazine? Stay tuned for the Whack-a-Troll list...
Like reason over childish superstition.
"There are 96 genders, my chakra says I'm 2spirit"
Like inclusiveness over insularity.
"White privilege is real"
Like science over silly dogma.
"Covid came from a farmers market and not the coronavirus lab 200 yards away"
Like education over backwater ignorance.
"Critical Theory is a valid pedagogy".
Like progress over backwardness.
"Let's get rid of the internal combustion engine and replace it with windmills and then let's ban fertilizer... to save Mother Gaia"
Like modernity over pining for illusory good old days.
"Did I ever tell you GMO is evil?"
Like tolerance over bigotry.
"We need to create safe spaces for POC so that they don't have to interact with whites"
Lefties like Kirkland call their evil virtue.
Word!
The superiority complex is strong in this one. Let's hope it's fatal.
So why not share the video of The Musical Genius with the Keffeh and burqua Clingers, you cape-flourishing asshole?
The satanic verses enrage Muslims
Along with
Images of Mohammed
Children marrying outside of their sect
Women not in berkas
Women drivers
Okay they have that last one right, but come on its an entire religion whe their ideal virtuous person is a murdering pedofile.
but Christianity, which is openly shit on and criticized, is basically enslaving women.
but god forbid someone criticize the backwards brown people, that would be problematic
Ackshuyally. Islam cribbed a lot from it's predecessor Abrahamic Religions.
Libs of Tik Tok banned again for posting things already on the web. The guess this time is the fact they had audio of a children's hospital admitting to hysterectemies for children under 16 on the name of the trans movement. Remember when female circumcision was controversial?
this pattern is honestly scary
they are doing the baseline level of investigation journalists refuse to do, and doing nothing but repeating their words and claims
the more concerning thing being that, journalists who actively push this stuff know its so offensive to normal folks that they dont even want people to know about it.
Real Clear Investigations reporter Sperry has some questions about the raid affidavit.
https://twitter.com/RCInvestigates/status/1563651102700355585
Paul Sperry sounds like a partisan dumbass who should leave the legal analysis to lawyers.
Alway bow to the “Top Men”.
Do whatever you like, including whining incessantly about all of this liberal-libertarian progress, but you will continue to comply with the preferences of better Americans.
"Better Americans"? You let your elitism show there, moonbat. Keep clinging to your so-called "betters" there, twit.
Finally, a "Banned Book" on the Reason Banned Books Reading List that was actually banned in places, instead of just not being added to curriculums.
1/20 accusations aint bad!
And people have died over it.
Finally, a banned book that ML is able to criticize, since it wasn't proposed to be banned by his fellow tribalists.
How the hell did I criticize The Satanic Verses, you retarded shill?
While gendered structures are ancient, a binary framework of binary sex didn’t exist in Western culture ’til the late 18th century.
Scientific America is now woke gaslighting.
Before, science recognized only one sex — the male — and considered the female body an inferior version of it.
Ya I dont know what activist wrote this drivel but its embarrassing.
Every culture that has ever had eyes and ears has recognized the binary nature of men/women.
The only possible thing this argument could be based on is that most texts talk about 'man' and 'mankind' as a standin for people / humans without specifically separating men/women. But in any of these cultures there was always the recognition and separation of men/women into roles throughout society based on their biology (women taking care of the children and maybe gathering, men hunting and fighting).
This gaslighting is so lazy you would have to have had 2 liters of the koolaid before it even checks with reality
Ya, we'll just ignore the history of written literature because reasons.
Writing is white supremacy.
The West's antagonism to women began in earnest with the Renaissance in the 15th century. That was when witch hunts, actual hunts for witches, became a part of the Western scene. The middle ages were slightly better, but no picnic, either. The English burned Joan of Arc at the stake, not for witchcraft, but for wearing men's clothing.
On May 30, 1431, at Rouen in English-controlled Normandy, Joan of Arc, the peasant girl who became the savior of France, is burned at the stake for heresy.
The heresy of cross dressing and rejecting church authority. Which is not witchcraft. Witch hunting was not a significant practice until the Renaissance.
Cross dressing is not heresy.
Obviously not. But they burned her anyway. And it only got worse during the Renaissance. It was only a couple of years ago that Scotland, home of the Enlightenment, repealed their laws against blasphemy.
Except no matter how you try and twist it, Jeanne d'Arc was actually burned for insurrection, not heresy.
You know who was burned for actual heresy? Jan Hus and Girolamo Savonarola. Two proto-Protestants who taught theologies similar to that group you hate the most, evangelicals.
" Jeanne d'Arc was actually burned for insurrection, not heresy."
And she was born in Medieval times. In the Renaissance, it would have been witchcraft.
Wasn't Savonarola, "the bonfire of vanities," something of an insurrectionist? Hus too had secular powers and concerns, didn't he? I'm not so familiar with him.
"In the Renaissance, it would have been witchcraft."
You watch too many movies. Early modern witchburning was almost always extrajudicial mob lynching. Both secular and religious authorities prosecuted witchhunters and witchburners.
And both Savonarola and Hus were burnt explicitly for heresy.
"And both Savonarola and Hus were burnt explicitly for heresy."
As was Joan of Arc, but I suppose there was an implicit political motive as well, as they were both actors in the world of politics, as was Joan.
Heck no. Wearing a suicide vest under women's clothes is a ticket to paradise with 72 birchin' girls panting after your remains.
See? See what happens when women get these notions that they are individuals with rights instead of listening to Ceausescu, Reagan, Nixon, Ford, Bush, Palin, Trump, Palito, Long Dong, Handmaid, Greene-Teeth and Romney?
Umm no.
No, the English burned her at the stake for raising an army to drive them out of France.
Don't list phony kangaroo court charges like they're the actual factors.
When the news got out of what the English had done, the pope himself ordered a retrial, the papal court found that the original trial was unjust and deceitful; Joan's abjuration, execution and their consequences were nullified.
The court found that the bishop and the assessors who supported the charges might be guilty of malice and heresy. The papal court ordered a copy of the Articles of Accusation to be formally torn up and a martyr's cross should be erected on the site of where Joan was burned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_trial_of_Joan_of_Arc
"No, the English burned her at the stake for raising an army to drive them out of France."
How many men were burned at the stake for their role in the attempt to drive the English from France? Not even one, you say? That's what I thought.
She a symbol of French opposition to English rule and the prosecution was political. She was charged with "wearing men's clothes" among other charges, but she was a hero to France wearing armor and men's clothes, so clearly that wasn't universally condemned. If she hadn't been the inspirational source of French nationalism, she wouldn't have been charged.
There's of course no modern parallels I can make of people creating trumped-up charges to prosecute a political opponent in order to demoralize their supporters.
Women were not routinely burned at the stake for wearing men's clothes, her circumstances were unique because the French recognized her as the prophesized virgin who would lead France to victory, and she was putting herself forward as that. England of course is going to dispute a prophecy about a French girl defeating English armies, so they're going to burn her for claiming that, and the fact that she wore men's clothing was a tack-on charge since it was pretty much indisputable but barely relevant. It's like when you're trying to prove a major criminal charge, you'd throw in lesser charges that easier to prove because it lends credulity to the whole proceeding. I mean, it's true that this man was carrying an unlicensed firearm, therefore he must be the murderer!
"and the prosecution was political"
Modern feminists claim much the same thing about the whole witch hunting craze that engulfed the West with the advent of the Renaissance. Joan of Arc lived at a time when the influence of the black death was still a force and medievalism was still strong. The fact that the English decided to pursue the bogus cross dressing charges show that the Renaissance was just around the corner.
1. Look at you move the goalposts, but okay, let's go there...
2. Joan had seventy articles brought against her (later summarized in a 12 article indictment). Cross-dressing was only one.
3. Women cross-dressing wasn't punishable by death or often even a fine. Church fathers had stated that a woman may wear a man's clothes to hide herself from enemies, protect herself from rape or if no other clothes were available, and Joan met all three, wearing them in enemy territory to get to Chinon, and in her prison cell after her abjuration when her dress was taken from her and she was housed with male prisoners.
4. Joan claimed that she wore men's clothes and armor by the command of God and his angels. She was given the order in her famous visions. She stated she would return to wearing women's clothes when she fulfilled her calling.
The main English argument was that her visions calling the French to free the land from the English were heresy, so her "God ordered"' crossdressing was the emblem of her heresy. Her final condemnation began when she was found to have resumed wearing men's clothes, which was taken as a sign that she had relapsed by obeying her visions again.
5. You're right, the unransomed captured male followers of Joan weren't burned at the stake... they were drawn and quartered instead. Wow, bet they were relieved, huh?
"1. Look at you move the goalposts, but okay, let's go there..."
Goal posts are meant to be moved.
"5. You're right, the unransomed captured male followers of Joan weren't burned at the stake... they were drawn and quartered instead. Wow, bet they were relieved, huh?"
If their families had any money, they were probably ransomed.
'"1. Look at you move the goalposts, but okay, let's go there..."
Goal posts are meant to be moved.'
Dude, never go full retard.
Next time you visit your local stadium to watch the Stones in concert, you'll find that the goal posts have indeed been moved. Where to? Not sure, but the fact remains they've been moved, as God intended.
Oh fuck, another chemjeff. What's the point.
He’s hopeless.
"What's the point."
If it needs pointing out, none. Carry on with your regularly scheduled hobby horse riding.
Isn't it just horrible that there are more and more people coming here who aren't just toeing the right-wing tribalist narrative line?
Not every libertarian is a Ron Paul Republican you know.
Saying Jeanne d'Arcs' execution was politically motivated rather than about fashion is a right-wing tribalist narrative?
Wow, you're so fucking retarded, Jeff. How do you manage to find your mouth when you're eating your Twinkies with that sort of brainpower?
Except there aren’t “more and more people coming here”. trueman has been posting his idiocy here almost as long as you have.
He can’t help it.
"The West's antagonism to women began in earnest with the Renaissance in the 15th century. "
Note that 'antagonism to women' is completely different from "a binary framework of binary sex didn’t exist in Western culture "
In fact, its hard to argue that men/society/whatever were specifically mistreating women if western culture wasn't recognizing them as distinct from men. Of course, most of the relegation of women to more supportive family / child rearing roles comes specifically from the fact that the two genders are so different. One with a body that is larger, faster, and made for defending/hunting while the other not only capable of carrying a child, but also with the temperament/traits associated with nurturing and support. This is all encoded in DNA.
You cannot have separate treatment without specifically recognizing that they are different. It would be similar to saying "actually, in the Jim Crow south, no one ever actually thought there were different races, science has always said there was just one race". The distinction had to be made for discrimination to occur.
And of course this gaslighting outfit knows this, they are just making shit up to see what sticks. Every person who has ever existed in time that has eyes has known this, long before 'the west' was a thing, and thereafter. And its a complete lie that it wasn't recognized as such.
Race was invented in Virginia, ya know, on the shores of the Potomoc. A rather infamous article on Reason once opened with that argument. Prior to that, nobody recognized race at all, but America came along and invented race so that people could learn racism.
Link to said article?
"One with a body that is larger, faster, and made for defending/hunting while the other not only capable of carrying a child, but also with the temperament/traits associated with nurturing and support. This is all encoded in DNA."
You don't need to be faster or larger to fire a rifle or release an arrow accurately enough to bring down your prey. Women are just as capable at world class marksmanship as men are, and presumably the untrained of both sexes have equal potential. Encoded in DNA? I don't know. We tend to think DNA to be at the root of a lot of things. Anyone who inherits DNA inherits a lot of other things, like a unique environment to be nurtured in.
"You cannot have separate treatment without specifically recognizing that they are different."
I'm not sure what your point is. Men and women are treated differently, and they are different. Ability to bear children is probably the most widely recognized.
""a binary framework of binary sex didn’t exist in Western culture "
I don't really know much about this, but I suspect this binary framework came to the fore in the 19th century, a low point for women in the West. I think before, questions of sexuality weren't so ideologically tainted by science or religion.
"You don't need to be faster or larger to fire a rifle or release an arrow accurately enough to bring down your prey. Women are just as capable at world class marksmanship as men are, and presumably the untrained of both sexes have equal potential. "
Sure, women can participate in combat/hunting just like men...in a vacuum.
A vacuum that accepts the marksman will never have the chance, ever, to be in close quarters combat or the front lines overwhelmed. Or they fuck up and have to run from what they were shooting at (maybe look at the bell curves for men vs women runners). Yes, this marksman will truely always be 100% protected and never face any challenge, always able to fire without any risk to themselves. Maybe while we are at it we let women have a go at NFL quarterback too right? After all, they just have to throw the ball accurately right?
There are other elements to hunting/combat other than the second you aim your shot and release the arrow/bullet. Ever shoot something and have to carry it back to your truck? Imagine back in the day shooting it and humping it back to your cave, as a woman with significantly inferior carrying capacity.
This is the argument of an ignorant liberal who doesn't know shit about shit, and is out of their depth. Its like arguing with a lefty about guns. They dont come equipped to debate, so they throw out a talking point that their equally ignorant lefties would applaud and think it doesnt sound retarded. Sorry to say, it does.
We have different genetics than animals. As much as you and the retarded lefties want to think the strongk wammyn will be able to be like lionesses who do the hunting, we are a different species, and thats just not the way it is.
"Or they fuck up and have to run from what they were shooting at (maybe look at the bell curves for men vs women runners). "
If you are charged by a large elephant, you're probably fucked male or female. But no question there are situations where size and strength can play an important role in successful hunting. But so can patience, cunning and a keen awareness of one's environment, characteristics generally attributed to the female sex. There's no DNA encoding that makes hunting exclusively male.
can patience, cunning and a keen awareness of one's environment, characteristics generally attributed to the female sex.
I see you know nothing about women.
It's not about what I know or don't know. it's about characteristics generally attributed to the female sex, not necessarily by me but by people in general. Society, if you will. I think if I understand the left's beef with binarism, it implies that the sexes are opposite one another in binary opposition: one/zero, true/false, good/bad etc. In such an arrangement, at least in the Western tradition, women have always been put in the less powerful shittier side of the equation. That's probably more of a feminist critique than a leftist one, but the leftists have wholeheartedly signed onto it.
“It's not about what I know or don't know.”
Then makes random assertions that clearly show what he doesn’t know.
"Then makes random assertions..."
Which you haven't refuted or disputed.
Oh so that is why you are so appalled by the whole transgender movement. You're a complete and total chauvinist and transgenderism upsets the entire chauvinist apple cart.
It's like cats and dogs. The genders have to be kept apart. Why? Because DNA.Or Jesus. Or the architects, evidently without much forethought, who decided that two bathrooms would be more than enough for anybody.
We can't legitimize transgenders because then insecure men like JimboJr couldn't use his penis as his sole rationale for why (in his mind) he is a superior human being.
Chemleft smiles:
Police remove lesbians from Pride parade in Cardiff: Moment cop tells gender-critical women to leave LGBT march
Pretty soon it will just be crossdressers, pederasts and their catamites and castrati if you're lucky, Jeff. You can rename it the TP movement.
Why are lesbians no longer welcome at Pride?
Sooooo inclusive.
they are legitimate so far as they are a human beings that have rights and dont deserve to have them infringed.
That doesn't include me pretending their delusions are real.
Stop thinking that playing pretend is noble
Imagine thinking that acknowledging biology makes you a chauvinist….
Im appalled only when it comes for kids. Im appalled when encouraging and embracing a psychological delusion ends up creating a person with significantly higher suicide and depression risk.
Im not appalled by any adult trannies, they can do what they want. But they will always be their biological sex with a mental disorder that they are the opposite sex. Its just whats happening.
And transgenderism doesn't upset the apple cart that is my view on sex/gender any more than me thinking im a lion upsets the food chain. Ill never be a lion, and a man will never be a woman. Its just basic biology. Stop reaching for hysterical reaction terms, me recognizing reality doesnt make me a chauvinist. It makes you and the left the anti-science losers you always show yourselves to be.
Scientific America is now woke gaslighting.
No, SciAm has been woke since the ‘70s. It’s rubbish.
Alex Berenson Sued Twitter Over Being Banned And Court Documents From Twitter Show It Was At The Request Of The Federal Government.
It’s a long segment and the whole thing's worth watching, but don’t miss the key material near the end (13:15 min), explaining why he settled with Twitter and how he’s moved on to publishing documents showing that the federal government pressured Twitter to ban him.
Twitter had accepted him, he says, and White House people said they wanted him banned, and, within 6 weeks, he was banned.
That clip should be put alongside this other Joe Rogan clip, from one day earlier. Here’s Mark Zuckerberg talking about the FBI’s pressuring Facebook to moderate content.
I remember all the fifty-centers and Reasonistas yammering at the time: Private companies can do what they wannnttt!!!!
Well, it wasn't private companies doing what they wanted. It was the federal government sneaking around the first amendment.
Far too many pretend libertarians here were making that "Muh private company" argument.
I hope they’ve learned their lessons, but I doubt it. I doubt we'll even get a single article on it. In fact I doubt any of them actually care.
The private company argument is dead. All reasonable libritarians (this excludes all reason writers) know this
Reason and the same posters who have used it for years will continue to push the private company argument. They are fully supportive of corporate fascism.
Goverment controlling corporations is literally fascism. This is lost on alot of people
The current term is “semi fascism “
It's meaning is semi-mystical totalitarians.
I also like to add random words to a statement to make it pointless gibberish.
Is a practitioner called a Piece of Fasces?
Also want to crow a bit as Alex's suit against Twitter was allowed through contractual grounds. That is what got him to discovery and depositions that proceeded the settlement. I've been discussing 230 contractual issues from 230 for years with many here claiming this was not a valid legal argument. Yet it is the one the courts allowed.
More specifically people like Chemjeff insisted that if Twitter was doing these things, it was not due to pressure from the government.
^ exactly. It was always "well sure maybe the govt hinted at something, but ultimately they didnt tell them to do it, and it was a private company just doing what they wanted on their own"
When in reality...it was the federal govt directly requesting, by name, someone who hadnt violated any company policy, to get them banned because he said stuff the govt didnt like.
You cant call yourself a libertarian, free speech advocate, or even a liberal and support this stuff.
You can't call yourself a libertarian, free speech advocate, or even a liberal if you deliberately ignore this stuff either.
In most of these cases, the evidence that Twitter or some other social media platform was censoring people at the behest of the government was incredibly weak.
Here is an instance where the evidence is not so weak. Fine.
“Fine.”
Yes, we know you think it’s fine.
Nope not fine. Also not unconstitutional, also not like most of the other examples that have been trotted forth.
Also not unconstitutional
Cite?
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1142/private-property-expression-on
Is it the CEOs property if it's a publicly traded company, Jeffrey? Are the directors violating their fiduciary duty if they deliberately make decisions that negatively affect stock prices and disbursements?
Anyway, that's all distraction because you're deliberately ignoring the part where the Administration and the FBI assfucked the first amendment by pressing the companies.
Is it the CEOs property if it's a publicly traded company, Jeffrey?
Publicly traded does not mean publicly owned. But you know this.
Are the directors violating their fiduciary duty if they deliberately make decisions that negatively affect stock prices and disbursements?
That depends on what the stockholders think, doesn't it? Maybe they are in favor of Twitter banning 'COVID misinformation' and don't think it is a violation of the directors' fiduciary duty.
assfucked the first amendment by pressing the companies.
Please show how it is a violation of the First Amendment for the government to have done what they did in this case.
LOL
Publicly traded does not mean publicly owned. But you know this.
Where did I say "publicly owned", you shitweasel.
I referenced the stockholders. You are adding "publicly owned", not me.
You can never be straight, can you? You always have to twist and play games.
"That depends on what the stockholders think, doesn't it?"
Duh. That's the point. You don't normally take radical actions that ruin your brand without first consulting the shareholders, but in all the cases related to government censorship requests they have never once consulted the shareholders. It's part of the reason behind the perennial shareholder lawsuits.
"Please show how it is a violation of the First Amendment for the government to have done what they did in this case."
You make me sick. You know damn well.
It was a violation of the first amendment for the Biden administration to request that Alex Berenson be deplatformed.
It was a violation of the first amendment for the FBI to say that the FBI laptop was Russian disinformation and Facebook should treat it as such.
I can't believe even a fascist like you would publicly run cover for this shit. You're so fucking disgusting.
All you have is rage and demagoguery, not facts and truth. You just repeat your claims without even making an attempt to try to prove them.
You just claim over and over again "It violates the First Amendment!" without even bothering to look up the facts and the law. Here is a news flash, an action can be bad and yet not unconstitutional.
Does that article actually say the government can skirt the First Amendment as long as they tell a company to do it?
Lol. I didn’t bother clicking the link initially, because it’s Lying Jeffy. But after your comment I went ahead.
The fucking lying garbage that is Jeffy linked to an article about a company town allowing people that lived there to express themselves on other’s property and other similar cases.
It had fuck all to do with the FBI “requesting” tech companies with special liability protections from the federal government doing the federal government’s bidding.
I don’t call him Lying Jeffy for nothing.
Both Jeff and Shrike always imagine we won't read their links... maybe because they don't actually read their links.
I’ve actually mostly stopped bothering with Lying Jeffy’s links because even when you point out what’s actually in them he just pivots to another lie, but Nate’s comment made me curious.
See below. Yes, actually, the government can.
If they didn’t admit they were wrong when Psaki specifically stated they told social media what to censor, no amount of evidence will get them to.
Fact is, the people that are being censored are their political enemies, so they’re going to support and rationalize it because they’re unprincipled lefties.
Here we are, it's the Disinformation Governance Board and the Trump Mar-a-Lago Raid all over again.
The DGB was bad. The right-wing overreaction to it, of "Minitrue come to life!!!", was over-the-top. But objecting to the overreaction means support for the DGB, at least in the minds of the right-wingers.
The raid was problematic. The right-wing overreaction to it, of "Here comes banana republic!!!", was over-the-top. But objecting to the overreaction means support for the raid, at least in the minds of the right-wingers.
And so it is with social media and censorship. The government telling social media companies to censor people is bad, no doubt. The right-wing overreaction to it, of "it violates the Constitution!" and "it's literally fascism!", is over-the-top. But, one cannot object to the overreaction around here.
Evidently there are only two sides: Agree with Team Red or agree with Team Blue.
How about this: the government shouldn't be telling companies who to censor, not because it's illegal or unconstitutional, but because it's an abuse of their authority. Comparing it to fascism is unhelpful as it only inflames passions rather than fostering sober discussion.
So how about this: If you think this conduct by the government should be illegal, why don't you clearly state how you think this ought to work. If anyone in government demands that Twitter censors someone, that person should go to jail? How firm does that demand have to be? Can it be a request? Should that be jail time too? What interaction if any should be permitted? And how would this be enforced without violating the free speech rights of all involved?
And here we see Lefty Jeffy transition from “It’s not happening” to “Ok, it’s happening, but it’s no big deal.”
Are you going to answer the question?
How do you think this issue should be resolved?
You made a bunch of idiotic statements with question marks affixed and some leading questions?
"If anyone in government demands that Twitter censors someone, that person should go to jail? How firm does that demand have to be? Can it be a request? Should that be jail time too? What interaction if any should be permitted? And how would this be enforced without violating the free speech rights of all involved?"
I know that you know that all your "questions" have been solved by the courts well over a century ago.
Who do you imagine that you're tricking?
You are right, they have been resolved. And the courts have found that it's not unconstitutional for the government to ask, even to pressure, private companies to do something on their behalf.
So the courts have said that what the Biden admin did was legal even if unethical and wrong.
So what is your proposed solution?
So it’s no big deal, like I said. When did you acknowledge that it was happening, exactly? I missed it. And your apology for being wrong when your position was that it wasn’t happening.
What am I supposed to apologize for? For not taking you at face value at your word? For not believing every right-wing troll who claims "sure, I'm an edgelord shitposter on Twitter who deliberately posted provocative stuff to make people mad, but that's totally not why I was banned, oh no, I was banned over my politics, because I support tax cuts!" Nope, still don't believe them. And not surprised that you are so gullible to take their claims at face value, because it helps your team.
In Berenson's case he actually provided tangible proof, unlike all of the other shitposters who come here and claim they are being 'persecuted' for being horrible human beings.
"sure, I'm an edgelord shitposter on Twitter who deliberately posted provocative stuff to make people mad, but that's totally not why I was banned, oh no, I was banned over my politics, because I support tax cuts!"
We’ve reached the part of the discussion where Lying Jeffy just starts making up random shit to deflect from being wrong.
"And the courts have found that it's not unconstitutional for the government to ask, even to pressure, private companies to do something on their behalf."
It's not unconstitutional for the government to ask, even to pressure, private companies to do something on their behalf, but it sure as fuck is unconstitutional and illegal for the government to ask or pressure private companies to censor people on their behalf.
Who the hell did you imagine you were tricking with that cheap sophistry attempt?
You can find articles, just not on Reason.
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/the-fbi-believes-the-fbi-is-responsible
I don't think Reason even did an article talking about the CDC emails with Facebook and the $150 MILLION in free advertising they received........
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/emails-reveal-extensive-coordination
CDC emails with Facebook and the $150 MILLION in free advertising they received
That's actually $15 million not $150 million. And why is this a bad thing? Not all that long ago, it would have been considered civic-minded to let the government use your property for free to try to help people.
You’re a propagandist for the federal bureaucracy.
Aren't you the guy who claimed that asking Trump to write down which documents he claimed to declassify was an intolerable aggrandizement of the bureaucracy?
I'm not a paranoid simpleton like you who can only view the government through the lens of fear and paranoia.
“intolerable aggrandizement of the bureaucracy?”
At least you didn’t put quotes around this, Lying Jeffy. Progress!
Federal govt made specific requests for a private company to kick off a person who hadnt actually done anything wrong other than piss off fed govt.
The lefties cheering this on have let the mask fall all the way off. There is no explanation for this that doesn't support authoritarianism and shutting down free speech
"I doubt we'll even get a single article on it."
We got an article about Salman Rushdie instead. Deal with it. I wouldn't bother with The Satanic Verses. Go directly to Midnight's Children, a far superior work about the partition on India.
"Nooooo! Don't look like at the horrific first amendment violations by the Biden administration! Look over there! It's a long-dead ayatollah and he's writing fatwas!"
Take the long view. Biden will be forgotten long before Rushdie's masterpiece.
Take the sane view. The American government censoring innocuous political speech is more important and dangerous to Americans, than a 40-year-old fatwa against a Brit.
I'd be more concerned that Biden's political opponents can't muster anything other than the 'innocuous.' If they were more interested in anything but posing, they'd come up with something with more bite to it.
The government ordered a private company to censor a man for publicly criticizing their Covid policy. If you don't think that's absolutely horrific and a danger to free speech, as JimboJr says, "You can't call yourself a libertarian, free speech advocate, or even a liberal".
The private company choosing to comply with these 'orders' is more horrific, and cowardly, to boot. And those comparing wearing a surgical mask in times of pandemic to the Hitler or Stalin regimes are not to be taken seriously. As I said, they're poseurs.
God you're a tedious asshole.
He says stupid shit on purpose just to troll.
It's pure Jeffy. I'm starting to wonder if he's another one of Jeff's socks.
Ackshuyally, Rushdie is a dual Citizen of Britain and the U.S. His fight is all of ours.
But it's not a "first amendment violation". Something can be bad and still not violate the Constitution.
How the fuck is the government telling someone to censor another not a first amendment violation?
You're not even trying.
Well you are Canadian so I wouldn't expect you to understand. But the First Amendment only applies to governmental entities. The one exception to this was in the case of a 'company town' when a private company so completely owned every aspect of the town itself, including all of the services that a government normally provides such as law enforcement and road maintenance, that the courts ruled that that company was a de facto government and bound by the First Amendment. But that does not apply to Twitter in this case, they do not possess governmental powers.
"Well you are Canadian so I wouldn't expect you to understand."
"You dum Canadian, you no understand concept of first amendment."
"But the First Amendment only applies to governmental entities."
Look you dishonest fuck, believe it or not the Administration and the FBI who issued the censorship requests are government entities.
You're trying to pretend that the issue lies with Twitter and Facebook's actions rather than the fact that the Administration and FBI requests themselves were first amendment violations.
I'd say that you're the one here that doesn't understand the first amendment's application here, but I know that in reality you actually do, but are being deliberately decietful.
Also, aren't you a Torontonian, Jeff?
"You dum Canadian, you no understand concept of first amendment."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
the Administration and the FBI who issued the censorship requests are government entities.
Yes they are. And it is not per se unconstitutional for them to make requests, even demands.
I'd say that you're the one here that doesn't understand the first amendment's application here, but I know that in reality you actually do, but are being deliberately decietful.
Actually, that better describes you. You are gaslighting and narrative-pushing, because you hate Team Blue so much, you will push any narrative that is maximally harmful to them even if it is not true or not plausibly supported by the facts. It doesn't really matter what the case law says on the First Amendment, you will push the UNCONSTITUTIONAL FASCISM line only because it makes them look as bad as possible. Your reasoning is motivated and your faith is bad.
The American government demanded that Twitter and Facebook censor an individual and also a story. Those are first amendment violations by definition.
All the dancing around the facts that you've been doing is what gaslighting is. Supporting government censorship is what fascism is.
You're an evil wretch.
But that is the case of whether private companies are bound by the First Amendment in speech they might choose to host. The answer is no, they are not. Except for that one exception.
Here is a better article on the problem of 'jawboning' or using informal means to try to get private actors to do the bidding of the government. And it's from a friendly site to you so you should have no problems accepting it.
https://www.lawfareblog.com/informal-government-coercion-and-problem-jawboning
There are two sets of precedents.
One set, the one that I prefer, says that government attempts to 'jawbone' private companies to do something is only unconstitutional if the government action is very obviously a threat or intimidation. Just hot air doesn't count. So it doesn't matter if Biden asked Twitter directly to ban someone, it's Twitter's ultimate decision, and Biden would only be on the hook if there was very obvious direct intimidation ("if you don't do this I will audit you" or something). That obviously didn't happen.
The other set, the one that you probably prefers, takes a looser approach and says that just hints at intimidation by government is unconstitutional. So just asking Twitter to ban someone would be considered unconstitutional. I don't agree with this, because a request is not the same as a threat.
But even if we go with this second, looser standard, then nonetheless the successful plaintiff would have to prove that the action that the company took was *because of the government threats*, and not because they were going to do it anyway. I think that is going to be tough to prove.
So, you have half a point, but only half. Congratulations! You did better than you normally do.
All that bullshit to try and redirect from the fact that it's the FBI and Biden Administration's actions that are the issue here.
I know that you know that the requests themselves were horrific first amendment violations. I know you know that whether or not Facebook and Twitter complied with those illegal requests is irrelevant to the issue.
But look at you try to shift the issue onto the companies actions. You're so monumentally dishonest.
I know that you know that the requests themselves were horrific first amendment violations.
Read the article. You just keep repeating that, but it's not necessarily true. You haven't read a damn thing on the subject, and you just keep repeating these unproven claims to push a narrative rather than to have a discussion on the matter.
It is not necessarily unconstitutional for the government to request that a private company do something, even for a private company to censor someone. It doesn't mean the action isn't wrong, just that it isn't unconstitutional.
You are too wrapped up in your hatred of me and your general demagoguery to acknowledge this. This is just like all the rest of the times when Team Red objected to something that Biden did, but did so in the most over-the-top absurd way. It's not enough for the DGB to be a bad idea, it had to be MINITRUE!!!. It's not enough for the Trump raid to be problematic, it had to be BANANA REPUBLIC!!! And here, it's not enough for Biden asking companies to censor people to be a bad idea, it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL FASCISM!!! You all just can't help yourselves. You go way over the top in your criticism and objection to whatever they do and you demand conformity to your narrative as the only acceptable take on the matter.
This is why the Team Red brand has suffered, this is one big reason why Trump could not get re-elected in 2020, Team Red has become the party of paranoid crazytown lunatics. And it's not surprising that the Ron Paul Libertarians around here love Team Red so much, they are deep into the paranoia crazy sauce themselves.
"You just keep repeating that, but it's not necessarily true...
It is not necessarily unconstitutional for the government to request that a private company do something, even for a private company to censor someone."
That's a complete lie. Who do you imagine you're fooling?
Amusing that you're accusing me of being "too wrapped up in... general demagoguery to acknowledge this", when what you're demanding I acknowledge is a lie.
Danes in Denmark enrage the Muslim World. (don't tell Fiona)
tinyurl.com/2p8fcb3a
It's funny that the msm declares the replacement theory to be a conspiricy, yet in Denmark the museums are saying that's what they are doing
According to UN projections, Africa's population will triple over the next generation or so. The rest of the world, including Denmark, may well see negative population growth. In South Korea where more than 80% of the population lives in a handful of cities, population is already on the decline.
Forecast of the total population of Africa 2020-2050. According to the forecast, Africa's total population would reach nearly 2.5 billion by 2050. In 2020, the continent had around 1.34 billion inhabitants, with Nigeria, Ethiopia, and Egypt as the most populous countries.
That’s not triple. Not even double.
I don't think the population of Africa will stop growing in 2050. I think it will continue to grow. It's a big place, comparatively empty, and places like Denmark will be crying out for people to replacement their dwindling populations.
Africa is as empty as North America.
Not for long. Cecil Rhodes' dream of a rail link between Cairo and Capetown remains unfulfilled and there is still no practical overland route. The Chinese are building high speed rail links on the continent like the one in Kenya that connects Nairobi and Mombasa, but most of the construction follows the pattern of the European colonists, linking ports on the coast to resource rich areas inland, The rich copper belt of Zambia to Tanzania's Dar es Salam, for example.
Again with the trains.
Technology from the 1800’s is not the way of the future.
There's no such highway, either. Trains will be around as long as engineers (both kinds) and people concerned with with the efficient use of energy are involved in decision making and designing transportation infrastructure.
people concerned with with the efficient use of energy are involved in decision making and designing transportation infrastructure.
How about we let the users of this infrastructure make the decisions about what they want.
"How about we let the users of this infrastructure make the decisions about what they want."
There are no trains, cars or other surface transport connecting Cairo to Capetown, so no users neither. I think Africans need stuff like this and other pan Africanist steps if they are to overcome their colonial past and enjoy independence. United we stand and all that. With transportation links, female literacy and assured availability of clean water, they are in a position to go far.
You should go to Africa and help.
If they play their cards right, it may be us who's seeking their help before the end of the century. It will be the only continent on the planet with expanding markets.
_Freight_ railroads will be around forever, although I'm not sure that a freight railroad running the long way of Africa over mountains, rivers, and swamps could compete with ships sailing along the coasts. Passenger trains won't.
With air travel within most people's budget, inter-city passenger railroads only make economic sense in two narrow sets of conditions: a heavily populated corridor or a pair of large cities that are close enough that a train traveling at 50 - 200mph doesn't take significantly more time than an airliner at over 500mph.
Cape Town to Cairo definitely doesn't qualify. There are thousands of miles between that can barely support a paved road, let alone passenger rail. It would not be like the NYC - Boston corridor, but more like the Chicago - Seattle Amtrak train, which costs nearly as much as flying if you're willing to _sit_ in coach for 3 - 4 days each way. A sleeper cabin costs more than flying. There are frequent delays, and when I took this round trip we were diverted to a bus for over a hundred miles two times. I suspect that would be considerably more uncomfortable in central Africa than it was in the USA. It is a more comfortable ride with real food and great scenery once you are past the Great Plains, but it's a luxury rather than transportation for the masses.
Didn't they plot to doxx that pestering MAGA troll Skankhunt42?
Gee... now that I've seen the video, maybe the Knapp anarchists on the LP platform committee were right. We urgently need to import as many mohammedan terrists as possible before there's a shortage. That'll make sure nobody ever puts individual rights for women or national borders back in the platform.
Pasty white ginger teacher plots to erase her racist 4th grade students and their "posh parents" too.
https://tinyurl.com/mf623f9m
Yeah we'll probably have to pay off her student loans too.
Muslim rage has kept this book in the headlines much longer than it deserves. The far superior Midnight's Children is ignored by Reason only apparently because it hasn't enraged Muslims.
Perhaps, for some unknowable reason, they don’t agree with you.
If it'll do anything to boost the reputation of Midnight's Children among Reason's staff and readers, then I'm enraged!
Fatwa their asses! How dare anyone disagree with a hooded sockpuppet?!
Midnight's Children is ignored by Reason only apparently because it hasn't enraged Muslims.
Neither has the Quran.
Video game call of duty. Muslim complaints about scenes with quran pages lying about on the floor. Apologies and removal of offending scenes. Happened last year, ignored by Reason.
Huh? Reason is supposed to like the New York Times Review of Books now? Of course they ignore books that aren’t about politics or at the center of political controversies.
"Of course they ignore books that aren’t about politics or at the center of political controversies."
Aren't you lucky you have me to fill in the gaps.
Yes, I am.
You know what else enraged the Muslim world?
Pork chops?
Johnny Quest?
No. Johnny Quest's friend Haji Singh was a Sikh, not a Muslim. 🙂
Please don't make the same mistake some dumbass did immediately post-9/11.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajji
The Defenestrations of Prague?
Any chance that the victims were gay? If so, the rage would be because some of them landed on something soft (a garbage heap?) and survived.
Even if the victims were 100% straight, I doubt Muslims would be upset by Catholic officials being thrown from tall buildings.
Rights for women? Literacy? Ham sandwiches? Juhayman al-Otaybi? Jimmy Carter?
All the other Muslims who did or did not believe in hereditary leadership of Islam?
The emergence of the Baha’i faith? The popularity of Fiddler On The Roof?
Omar Khyaaam? Are Razr? Avi Sina? Ibn Warraq? Wafa Sultan? Ayaan Hirsi Ali? All the other great Atheists and Freethinkers who hailed from the Islamic world in addition to Salman Rushdie himself?
The Crusades?
Meanwhile:
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2022-08-27/who-shelling-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant
During a Special Online Briefing on Thursday with U.S. Ambassador Denise Jenkins, the Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security at the State Department, Dmitry Kirsanov, from Russia's TASS News Agency, asked her who was shelling the plant. Here is the relevant part of the transcript.
MODERATOR: Thank you, ma’am. The next question, again, to a journalist who is raising their hand from Dmitry Kirsanov, who is from the TASS News Agency.
QUESTION: Hi. Thank you for doing this. Can you hear me okay?
MODERATOR: Yes, we hear you.
AMBASSADOR JENKINS: Yes.
MODERATOR: Good morning, Madam Secretary. I have two separate questions. First, who is shelling the station? And secondly, while we have you here, could you update us on the talks or consultations or discussions, if you prefer, between the Russians and the Americans on the New START, on the issues pertaining to the inspections resumption? Thank you so much.
AMBASSADOR JENKINS: I’m not able, at this point, to make any confirmation about the shelling and where it’s coming from.
Bear in mind that the United States has been surveilling the Ukraine via satellites and aircraft since before Russia invaded. One would think that if the Russians were shelling the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant (despite having their troops stationed there), and falsely accusing the Ukrainians of doing it, Ambassador Jenkins or one of her colleagues would be quick to refute the Russians by showing satellite- or surveillance aircraft-gathered evidence of artillery hitting the plant from Russian-controlled territory.
On the other hand, if the Ukrainians are shelling the largest nuclear power plant in Europe with American-supplied artillery, you'd think someone in the U.S. government would ask them to cut it out.
But Biden's puppet boy still claims Russians are shelling themselves.
"You'd think" - but Biden cannot, and usually would not even before he became senile.
Nice job Hilary.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/deadly-clashes-tripoli-may-signal-imminent-libyan-civil-war
Eh. What's another nuclear war more or less. Joe Biden just paid off my student loan!
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/china-answers-sen-blackburn-visit-buzzing-taiwan-4-nuclear-capable-bombers
Sure is a good thing Reason's neocon friends are beating Putin. Oh wait.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/beyond-imagination-polish-homeowners-line-days-buy-coal-ahead-coming-winter
"This Is Beyond Imagination": Polish Homeowners Line Up For Days To Buy Coal Ahead Of Winter
Up next: burning furniture.
Burning euros
Wait, what, Reason is pretty much pro-Russia (or Ukraine should just surrender) in the war. Koch Industries is running pro-Russia ads on twitter
Cite?
Can you cite an example of Reason staking out this pro-Russia position?
The Jihadist tool's name (Há de matar) sounds out as "Bound to Kill"--if you ask anyone in Portugal Spain or South America. When the Mohammedans first went full whacko with these death threats, it appeared they were copying George Holy War Bush and Joe Biden. Both bleated at every opportunity that "our" murderers ought to kill "traffickers." Republicans will doubtless subsidize building of mosques and importation of illiterate Khomeinites into California once they appreciate the purity of this youth's Faith in God.
Okay, this is even weirder than the Holocaust denier guy upthread
To paraphrase Tolstoy, all assholes are stupid in their own way.
Hank is special that way.
Got through the first two sentences and then you went off the rails.
RUSHDIE: where da white women at?
And now for my next impression, Jesse Owens!
hopefully the Fatwa-sex was at least good.
I mean, Id risk it to bang padma
Padma can Latch me anytime! 😉
As far as Muslims, rather than Islamists, go, here's Pew Research's survey from a few years ago:
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
Now do "liberals" and "progressives."
If the former, while recognizing the pernicious nature of the latter, still can't bring themselves to oppose them, they can't complain about people lumping them together.
True story about Ayatollah Khomeini. After seizing power he had a book of his own poetry published. It sold like hotcakes. Over time, the authorities realized that it was so “popular “ because Khomeini’s verses were hilariously awful. Iranians—whose culture is steeped in poetry—were reading them out loud to each other in the safety of their own homes and snickering. Khomeini actually banned his own book as a result.
So anyhoooo…You know who else wrote a crappy-ass book and then had the nerve to ban other authors after seizing power?
I'm gonna go with Joe Biden here not because he actually did any of that but because I know he wants to.
Hmmm, I’m not sure if plagiarism counts… Judges?
If an undergrad does it, suspension. If a senior (haha, get it?) politician does it, election to the highest office.
Henry VIII?
I bet Leonard Nimoy's love poetry sold much better...with non-laughing 'fans'.
Nimoy's fans laughed when he visited University of Illinois, home of the PLATO network, an early computer network. They discovered that Nimoy's knowledge of chess didn't extend any further than how a knight moves.
Huh. Corporal punishment is still legal in some places in public schools. The things you learn.
https://myfox8.com/news/north-carolina/piedmont-triad/randolph-county-schools-parents-must-sign-form-to-opt-out-of-corporal-punishment/
Capital punishment in schools seems a bit extreme. Those Republicans are harsh...oh, wait, my reading skills aren't that good.
You jest?! I’ll have you know that corporal punishment is, in general, a major issue!
That should have been kept private.
There’s a colonel of truth in that….
It’s a major deal in general.
Some rank it higher than others
Buck private?
Or perhaps Butt Private?
At least you didn't drag Shirley into it. 🙂
Well, what can we say, you're ignorant.
You'll be even more surprised to hear that many parents favor this.
Lesbians kicked out of pride parade.
Pride is getting catty!
Does that mean their only GBTs now?
No, only Ts now.
Yeah, Gay men were kicked out of The Victim Class years ago.
The sooner the transgender activists split from gays and lesbians, the better for everybody.
FBI releases long awaited evidence of Russian collusion
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66890686@N02/52318193371/in/dateposted-public/
Sad but true.
Right, because that's where the FBI released the results of federal investigations, on flickr.com.....
Good god, you're dumb.
Our prisons are overcrowded. Abolish.
Note how the Seattle Times can't help but use this to spread misinformation about the frequency of school shootings.
It was a horrible novel, hard to actually read, but Muslim outrage made Rushdie a lot of money.
Wonder how many Muslims who seriously think Rushdie should be murdered for writing a book, have actually read that book? Khomeini admitted he never read The Satanic Verses.
According to the 2003 UN Report on Arab Human Development, illiteracy is rampant throughout that part of the world. And of those who can read, many Muslims hold that only Al-Qu'ran, Al-Hadith, and Al-Sunna are sufficient to understand the world.
Jihadis are literally murdering for something they don't understand and don't want to understand.
But it bored Western readers to sleep. It only sold because progressive intellectuals wanted to pretend that they had read it.