Forgiving Student Debt Without Abolishing the Federal Loan Program Is Morally Wrong
Biden's debt forgiveness will do absolutely nothing to change the incentive system that created this doom spiral in the first place.

President Biden formally unveiled his student loan debt forgiveness plan on Wednesday, and will use his executive authority to cancel up to $20,000 of debt for borrowers who make less than $125,000 per year.
"When I campaigned for president, I made a commitment that I would provide student debt relief," said Biden. "I am honoring that commitment today."
Biden will cancel $10,000 of federally held student loan debt for all borrowers who make less than $125,000 a year, and $20,000 for recipients of Pell Grants, which are need-based. The policy will impact up to 43 million people and cost the government at least $300 billion (in all likelihood, it will cost much more than that). Ultimately, U.S. taxpayers—many of whom did not take out loans to pay for school—will be on the hook for the money. A very conservative estimate of the cost per taxpayer is $2,100.
According to Biden, forcing all Americans to help pay the debts of college borrowers is an unfortunate necessity; people who borrowed from the government to go to school are just that badly off. They are ruined, they are desperate, and they need generous U.S. taxpayers to bail them out.
"An entire generation is now saddled with unsustainable debt in exchange for an attempt, at least, at a college degree," said Biden. "The burden is so heavy that even if you graduate, you may not have access to the middle-class life that the college degree once provided."
This is quite an indictment of the federal student loan program, so one might have expected that Biden's generous debt forgiveness plan would be accompanied by serious reforms to the underlying system that produced such inequities. After all, the government is conceding that its loan program has scammed millions of desperate people. Their situation is so dire, their prospects of repayment so dim, that Biden is requiring everyone else to pitch in and help them.
But no, Biden's debt forgiveness plan will do nothing—absolutely nothing—to fundamentally change the incentive system that created the doom spiral in the first place. Degree-seekers will continue to borrow large amounts of money to buy useless educations; indeed, they might feel even more encouraged to do so now that this precedent has been set.
Meanwhile, colleges and universities will have even less incentive to lower costs. Economic researchers have often found that the government's subsidized student loans cause educational institutions to jack up their prices for obvious reasons: If the feds cover the cost on the front end, no matter what it is, universities have every incentive to raise the sticker price. Forgiving student loan debt exacerbates this problem since it encourages more reckless borrowing. Indeed, the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates the cumulative student debt level will return to current levels in just a few years.

There are structural incentives that push students to borrow money that they can never hope to pay back, and the fact that so many people have fallen into crippling debt is a compelling reason to change these incentives. No rule says the federal government must lure people down a path that leads to financial ruin with some frequency. Congress can sharply limit, or even end, this practice.
A one-off cancelation of some level of debt held by borrowers who happen to be in dire straits at this specific moment does nothing to fix the underlying problems; on the contrary, it exacerbates them. It is a slap in the face to everyone who either paid down their college debt or made different educational choices to avoid accruing it.
If Biden wanted to make the strongest conceivable case for forgiving some college debt, this course of action needed to be paired with serious changes to the entire higher education system. Otherwise, he is simply engaged in a vast transfer of wealth, taking hard-earned money from those who did not fall prey to the federal government's scam and awarding it to those who did.
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OK, maybe I cannot defend Biden on this one minor issue. But do you Peanuts remember Trump? Remember Bush? I'd rather talk about them. We shouldn't obsess about Biden just because he happens to be President right now.
#TemporarilyFillingInForButtplug
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Maybe we could obsess about ALL of Biden's FAILURES that are causing Americans to suffer in every aspect of their lives & that he is questionable as President of this country.
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"#TemporarilyFillingInForButtplug"
OK, so we're definitely not doing phrasing anymore.
Let's all remember when Obama had the feds take over the student loan business and we pointed out that was a step toward having taxpayers pay college tuition. Defenders said there was no way that was true, in fact people saying it were extremists.
And yet they were 100% correct.
The same happened when people claimed affirmative action would mean race preferences. Same thing. Defenders claimed there was no way that could ever happen, people saying that are crazy. And yet they were 100% correct.
We'll see if it stands. In the past the Supreme Court allowed essentially anything to happen - even when it violates the clear wording of the constitution - as long as good leftists in academia and government supported it. So we'll see if the Thomas Court will similarly lie down.
Boy do I hate being right all the time.
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These are all symptoms of the same malignant disease; Marxism. And that disease multiplies and destroys it’s host through organisms k own as democrats.
Get rid of democrats, get rid of the disease.
"In the past the Supreme Court allowed essentially anything to happen"
Who is going to have standing to sue for this? Just being a taxpayer doesn't seem like enough.
If environmental groups have standing to sue to defend the environment shouldn't fiscal responsibility groups have standing to sue over this? Isn't there a legal principle that at least one class has to have standing? I think I remember hearing that and it makes a certain amount of sense.
"standing" seems to be a bit of a moving target. I was told that I could not participate in a hearing about property *that I had an accepted offer for* because I did not have standing. I can not sue the TSA for forcing me to provide ID to take a flight I've paid for because I don't have standing.
Standing seems to be a bit of a way of telling the plebes "take what you're given and say thank you Sir, may I have another".
This is exactly what the government is doing to us right now.
Or constitutional law groups?
A logical corollary to the headline of this article is that, were the government program being eliminated then the cancelling of the debt would be morally right.
Let that one sink in.
Libertarians my ass.
This is ABSOLUTELY what happened. This is classic socialism. Private companies were doing a perfectly good job at filling this need. The only reason for the federal government to take over this industry was so they could have control and play all the political games they have over these past few years.
This is more than an indictment of the federal student loan program. This is an indictment of socialism and every other tyrannical form of government.
Nobody in their right might would continue funding the bullshit universities are putting out, so government will continue subsidizing the creation of useful idiots.
Many have correctly noted this is buying votes. It’s also laundering federal money towards DNC campaigns. Useful indeed.
Exactly. If campaign contributions from higher ed skewed in the opposite direction this would not be happening. Instead higher ed would be getting the Jan6 treatment and all their massive endowments would be at risk.
Under what authority can the head of the Executive Branch cancel this debt, much less make legislative determinations about income cut-offs for the relief?
I know the answer might be FYTW but executive orders usually offer at least of fig leaf of legislative cover. What's the fig leaf in this case?
DOJ Office of Legal Counsel memo 1528451 explains how the HEROES Act gives the Dept. of Ed. Secretary power to do so. It says in part: "The
plain text of the HEROES Act authorizes the Secretary to “waive or
modify any statutory or regulatory provision applicable to” the federal
student loan program, 20 U.S.C. § 1098bb(a)(1) (emphasis added), an
authority that encompasses provisions applicable to the repayment of the
principal balances of loans, provided certain conditions are met. We
conclude that targeting relief towards those individuals who suffered
financial hardship because of COVID -19 and who otherwise satisfy the
requirements of the Act accords with the Act’s requirement that the
waiver or modification “be necessary to ensure that” student loan recipients who are “affected” by a national emergency “are not placed in a
worse position financially” with respect to their loans as a result."
So your interpretation is that he's claiming that a loan crisis that long-predated covid and is still around well after covid and is, at least according to the chart above, unaffected by covid at all is nevertheless an allowable relief of "financial hardship because of covid"?
If that is the legal reasoning, that's pretty implausible.
The issue is who has standing? Just like the ACA give aways.
Does my wife who just finished paying cash for her master’s degree have standing?
Nope.
She's a kulak
If that is the legal reasoning, that's pretty implausible.
It doesn't really matter much does it ? When all you need is an excuse, any excuse will do.
It is a fig leaf. As the order is not supposed to go into effect until 2023, it may be that Biden is promising a bribe to voters in November that will be ruled illegal in court come January.
Just like the 2020 election.......
Dang, Rico. Good job. As a reward, help yourself to some fruit sushi.
Fuck him. He voted for this
You think this is good? Suave just argued that there are circumstances where such government largesse would be acceptable. He's only quibbling over the details.
You are either a very shallow thinker or a shill.
he is simply engaged in a vast transfer of wealth, taking hard-earned money from those who did not fall prey to the federal government's scam and awarding it to those who did.
Further Biden specifically did this so that universities, the Democrats most reliable voters and activists, won't face cost pressure and thus can continue using taxpayer resources to fund their political activity.
The correct solution, of course, would be to charge universities for student loan defaults, since clearly they delivered a defective product.
Schools know more about the students than anyone else, including the students. So that makes sense from an economic efficiency point of view. But let's face it, that's simply not a factor. In fact preventing that efficiency is why the government took over student loans. They want everyone to get the same terms regardless of qualification or education. Effectively they demand the engineers and scientists subsidize the Grievance Studies, Psychology, and Medieval French Poetry majors.
This is the best example of irresponsibility I've seen in forever.
Sticker on a car being driven by HISPANIC!
"Don't breed um if you can't fee um"!!! Same goes for signing up for something you can't afford to pay......
Universities are run by the government so I’m not sure how they ever faced cost pressure to begin with.
Many US universities are private.
Not with the sheer volume of public monies they receive. They are, eseentially, state actors.
But I am glad to see Harvard lawyers getting a break today. They certainly deserve it.
And many of those businesses are effectively private equity firms that run a school as a tax shelter.
They don't have unlimited government funds though, and as their mission evolved from education to partisan quackery many state governments aren't interested in increasing their budgets. The resulting price increases have become unsustainable, hence they look for forgiveness after the fact from one government happy to reward their loyalty.
The way I see it, since this is a completely partisan policy proposal, more student loans being forgiven as a wealth transfer to the upper middle class should do a lot to undermine any remaining public perception that the Dems are the workers' party. I don't know how they can spin away from the narrative of "Democrats make taxpayer-backed loans to spur upward mobility which are not repaid, creating a windfall to those few who got loans at the right time and the institutions of higher education that aggravated the problem by raising tuition to price out the proletariat."
Better fix: Allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, and get the government out of the student loan business. Market forces will handily take care of the rest of the problem and its associated unfairness.
Dems' most loyal constituency now are highly-credentialed former university students between their 20s and 40s. They need those people to turn up at the polls to avoid getting slaughtered in the mid-terms. Working-class people are far more divided and not as reliable as they used to be.
The thing is, the Dems already have that demographic locked up. This looks more like stoking class resentment against success in general. On which page of the Hymnal of Socialist Engineering is this written, again? It's been a while since my catechism / university.
Even further, my kid is getting ready for college and seeing the kids 4 years ahead of her get a lucky break, and is pretty pissed off.
I just had a kid graduate in 2021 and currently have one in it. Can I go get a loan now instead of having just cut the check?
I see no reason for anybody to ever pay a student loan ever again when there is the chance the government will do this same bullshit again, honestly.
You miss the point where their propoganda machine tell the poor this benifit them
Biden's Press Secretary tried to do that on Wednesday and failed miserably. For a time, a university education was an honorable way to jump some rungs on the socioeconomic ladder, assuming you could pay for it and hack it academically. Then progressives said those limitations were unfair, and it was in the public interest to subsidize the "underprivileged" to participate in the scheme. It had something to do with representation, or maybe tokenism. Nevermind the academic rigor since we can put a belt on the D to make it a B, and *poof* credentials for everybody who participates. So now the progressive "solution" to disparity in higher education is to breed further hostility against those who pursue that path. The national unity flowing out of this administration is simply overwhelming.
I have a friend who is an analyst regarding where the money goes that these students get to go to college. He has proven research that shows, approximately, 65% of the money is never spent on college, but, spent on something personal.
Forgiving student loans is being an accomplice to being dumb, dumb & dumber. The Demo's want all their supporters to be dumb, therefore, they can get the dumb one's to vote for them & keep them in the luxury life style for their entire life....
And they said trump had no morals.
Ha! Really needed the laugh considering the sad state of affairs these days.
"They" also said Trump was corrupt and a criminal, while it turns out those 'investigating' him are.
I like reason is acting outraged when they essentially wanted biden over trump and biden campaigned on this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/markkantrowitz/2020/11/17/joe-biden-reaffirms-student-loan-forgiveness-campaign-promise/
Indeed Jesse, indeed.
This isn't even outrage. It's a modified, limited criticism that indicates changes in certain details would make the act morally right.
It's weak sauce from a soft statist wimp.
https://notthebee.com/article/here-was-joe-bidens-answer-when-asked-who-will-pay-for-student-loan-forgiveness
Let's go, Brandon. America is truly screwed: NBC-10 (Philly) just reported their "Twitter Poll" showed 67% in favor of the student loan forgiveness or actually thinking it wasn't large enough! Does Santa Claus ever lose an election in this country?
Santa Claus doesn’t steal stuff from people at gunpoint. Biden does.
Boom.
Robot Santa would.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJGUhVrS-Gs
It isn't necessary to steal at gun point, when you can steal an election, sitting in the basement.
That's because twitter users are disproportionately left wing activists and bots of left wing activists. That's not the real number.
considering the average student loan debt $10K is indeed a drop in the bucket.
It's your dealer fronting you just enough smack to keep you from getting the shakes. But that is all it is.
In case the conclusion is not clear: Both of them know they are only keeping you on the come back.
And President Biden chalks up another victory for his legacy as a champion of the poor.
I'm very much looking forward to a marginal reduction in my outstanding student loan balance. After all, I majored in philosophy. I took the trouble to learn how people are supposed to live and think: the height of human ethical achievement, ready to contribute my voice to the organization of human society as a whole. I'm doing my part to make the world a better place.
How am I supposed to repay $300k in student loans working as a barista? That's market failure. And Biden is fixing it. Score one for the Biden administration.
Lol.
Good, but not OBL quality.
I agree wholeheartedly with OBL on a variety of issues. For example, his promotion of unrestricted immigration and Palin's Buttplug in absentia leaves nothing else to be said.
However, OBL's first law is completely contradicted by this Biden victory. Just because my parents are high earners doesn't mean I am.
So EC is but one more parody account. Scumbags like Joe Asshole, Fooshit, SRG, make it hard to identify.
Ah but ec and obl play the Nobel clown, or the seuth sayer, at this point I can't tell
Dude this one out obled
Nearly everyone I know under 30 would applaud this. Nicely done.
Will the forgiven balances be federal taxable income?
Are there any state income-tax implications?
It is not taxable income. They made sure of that.
Don't forget you can't afford to pay your student loans when you're traveling on vacation every month!
Pure, unadulterated vote-buying. Some might even call it theft.
no one's student loans will be "forgiven". this act is unconstitutional and will be struck down in the courts. the president does not have the right to invalidate a contract between a student and a financial institution. the dumbasses who borrowed the money need to get off their asses, get a job and pay their debts.
It’s time for the democrats to be removed.
Factio democratica delenda est.
The contract is effectively between the student and the federal government.
And the president is not the federal government. He is a piece of it, but not the whole or even the most powerful part of it. He's certainly not the part that makes laws or domestic policies. If the president is able to cut anyone in America a check for 10 Gs then the responsibility of congress to appropriate spending is meaningless.
Look up mission creep
@justme erroneously claimed that the contract was between a student and a financial institution.
As for what Biden can and cannot do, the only mechanism for holding him accountable is either to pass a law nullifying his decision or to impeach him; if Congress doesn't do that, they tacitly let him exercise this power.
the gov just backs the loans. there is an actual financial institution involved in the contract.
what about students who have refinanced their loans with a 3rd party financial institution?
will be struck down in the courts.
Let's not put too much faith in a bunch of government shysters.
-jcr
Forgiving Student Debt
Without Abolishing the Federal Loan ProgramIs Morally WrongFixed that for you.
This whole debacle is a feature, not a bug. Reliance on the government was the entire purpose from the beginning.
THIS ^^^^ is 100% true, sad but true
I know this story may be too local for the national libertarian flagship publication, but I thought I'd link this little story.
"When I campaigned for president, I made a commitment that I would provide student debt relief," said Biden. "I am honoring that commitment today."
When Biden was sworn in as president, he took an oath to preserve and defend the Constitution of the United States. Today, he is breaking that oath.
"here can be summed up neatly by this news:
'How's he doing it?
Biden is employing a post-9/11 law that allows for debt cancelation "in connection with a war or other military operation or national emergency."
Which emergency? "[T]he present COVID-19 pandemic," per a Dept of Ed memo issued yesterday.'
There is no point in our mincing words. This is a lie. A contrivance. A game. Nobody believes this. It’s an excuse. If it makes it to the Supreme Court, it will lose, and it will deserve to lose. It is facially farcical. Of course “The HEROES Act, first enacted in the wake of the September 11 attacks” does not convey this authority, as the memo claims. At no point, until today, had a single person in America ever believed such a thing. They shouldn’t now." - Charlie Cooke
So, who sues?
Who has standing?
If it's congress, would Republicans want to do so right before the midterms? They're pretty good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, they might and let the press (read, the Democrat propaganda arm) lambaste them until November.
Really, it will be quite interesting to see how this gets challenged, if it does.
Taking jet skis out of the mouths of upper middle class white people is not a campaign winner.
Doesn't matter.
This is the modern American press we're dealing with. You could give everyone a 10% reduction in taxes and they'd print that all the gains are going to the rich (because the poor don't actually pay the taxes, but they'll leave that part out).
Fight this the wrong way and it gets painted as you wanting to take something away from these poor, struggling people trying to make something of themselves. The fundamental unfairness will never be considered, and Democrat progressives will eat that shit up. You'll be anti-education.
Why do you hate education? Why do you hate students? You just want people to die. Etc.
"This is the modern American press we're dealing with. You could give everyone a 10% reduction in taxes and they'd print that all the gains are going to the rich (because the poor don't actually pay the taxes, but they'll leave that part out)."
Didn't that actually happen with the Trump tax cuts?
Yes, they did.
That happens with EVERY tax proposal.
They'll also talk about rates when they think they can spin rats, but switch to actual dollars when the rates seem regressive. Like, if I give 1% tax cut from the top rates and 10% from the bottom rates, they'll switch to numbers because 1% of a million means you "gave" that guy with a million dollar income $10,000 and the guy who made the poverty level didn't get anything.
None of it is real though because rich people don't make income, so top rates don't mean much. Poor people don't pay taxes (many are net positive after credits) so they can never actually get a cut, and the middle class ends up eating shit either way.
You can muddy the shit out of any debate like that, and the muckrackers will certainly do it with this vote buying scheme. I'll be perversely fascinated to see how it all gets spun as it plays out.
I would provide student debt relief,
As usual, the looting scumbag pretends to be the source of the loot. Giving away what other people earned without the consent of the earners isn't generosity.
-jcr
Perhaps the White House believes that the courts will not allow this, so they get the immediate bump from barristas with postgraduate degrees, and won't suffer a backlash in 2024 after it's blocked.
Reason embraces morally wrong policies all the time; what’s the problem?
As for student loan forgiveness, it’s run of the mill vote buying and government handouts to special interest groups. You usually don’t have a problem with that.
When it goes to court I'm presuming the courts may rule that while the Administration's Department of Education has the authority to forgive student loans, it can only do so to the extent it doesn't exceed its current authorized budget.
*I* hope *you* are not just hoping.
Robby is a bit late to the party here; ask the 'libertarian' newest lefty shit who promotes FDR as superior to Trump as POTUS (that would be SRG)
Droolin' Joe is just adding to the pile.
Many (if not most) borrowers who make less than $125,000 are likely on deferment, forbearance, or income driven / economic hardship repayment plan. You have to recertify some of these plans annually, but doing that is a matter of checking a few boxes on a 3 page form and providing a single pay stub to prove income. I've guesstimated by earnings on the form loan servicers never pushed back. With Income based repayment plan you might be eligible for total forgiveness after 20-25 years.
Anyway you look at it, Biden bailed out a lot of young people who limited upside, who weren't under some crushing financial burden. A lot of them still live with their parents. Meanwhile, construction workers, nurses, doctors, electricians, and upper middle class workers might not qualify for this mercy. They still have to pay their student loans in full, and every month too, since they likely don't qualify for huge IBR reductions. AND they don't qualify for government welfare.
It really is a vote buying measure. I see some people on twitter saying "but the lender is fed, so no loss". This is so stupid. If I lent someone 50 thousand and I forgave him that amount, I'm still out 50 thou. If I had to borrow 50 thou to give it to him, now I'm on the hook for the entire amount. And that's essentially how the government spends money.
If 125k a year is what people think they need to pay their loans no wonder we’re in this mess. Median student loan debt is around 50 k. That amounts to about 500 a month, which is roughly a payment on a new car. Yeah times are tough, but generally anyone making the median salary, also about 50k should be able to pay that.
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Forgiving Student Debt Is Morally Wrong
Poor and working class people paying off rich doctors and lawyers loans.
Responsible people that paid off their school loans paying off deadbeats loans.
Smart people that got a usable degree and a job in reasonable times paying off the loans of idiots that went to college for years and have some liberal arts degree that only qualifies them for being a barista.
absolutely morally wrong
And doctors would have a built in way to participate: Residency.
Pretty much all residents make between 45-60k per year, depending on location.
So you take out 200k in loans, get a sweet 20k payoff while doing residency, then finish residency and make bank.
It truly is bizarro world. I would say its a clear cut attempt to buy votes, but the left leaner with a college degree tends to be firmly already voting D anyways. So preaching to the choir really. On our dime.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-student-loan-forgiveness-has-borrowers-hoping-vacations-medical-school-2022-08-25/
Reuters, Aug25, 2022
U.S. student loan forgiveness has borrowers hoping for vacations, medical school
WASHINGTON, Aug 25 (Reuters) - Americans bearing heavy college debt loads welcomed U.S. President Joe Biden's announcement on Wednesday that he would forgive $10,000 in student loans, and some shared hopes they can jettison extra work hours and perhaps take a vacation or return to school.
"I would not have second thoughts when planning a trip or going on a vacation," said John Paul, 49, a restaurant manager in Washington DC who said he took out loans for his son's tuition. "Earlier, it would be at the back of our mind that we have this debt hanging over us. Now we are somewhat relieved."
This is outrageous! So now, flat out, I'm paying for their vacation? WTF!
How does Biden even have the power, let alone, the authority to do this? I thought only congress could actually spend money.
Bring back the preview so that we can get the hypertext correct!
This is outrageous! So now, flat out, I'm paying for their vacation? WTF!
It could be worse. You could be paying for the next generation of doctors to support mandatory vaccinations for your kids and grandkids.
Eff that.... and worse.
How 'bout MD's cutting up pre-adolescent genitals for political reasons?
Joe Biden just raised college tuition by $10,000 and they'll use the extra money to hire Diversity, Inclusion, Equity majors as administrators who are otherwise unemployable. It's a win/win scenario!
Is Biden going to reimburse people who would have qualified, but were responsible enough to continue paying off their student debt?
It incentives are to be irresponsible.
The other thing is who gave Joe Biden the power to unilaterally forgive debt. I would argue that the President does not have this right and Joe Biden is guilty of abuse of power.
Presidents should not be above the law and understand that this means that Joe Biden should not be above the law.
It may be difficult for the corporate media to understand as they are dishonorable shills and sycophants for the Democrat party.
They've already said no, people who paid their loans get dick.
Well, thank G-d it's not illegal to be immoral.
How many graduates would have to forgo this payout if they added the caveat that they had to be living on their own and completely supporting themselves, rather than living with their parents, or having family pay some or all of their bills? I know of several liberal arts graduates who are making less than others who just have a high school diploma. Financially, their degrees are worthless.
Reason spent five years bashing Trump until their man Joe Biden won. Was Reason supporting Biden just to get their ratings up? The free loan plan was discussed during the campaign, Reason never wavered from their TDS.
From a moral perspective, they should also eliminate all the higher education accreditation rules. In order for a school's students to use student loans, the school needs to be accredited through a process that's recognized by CHEA (which is recognized by the Feds).
This process is supposed to weed out crap schools and leave good ones. If all these students were snookered into taking out huge loans for crap educations then the accreditors failed badly.
Shut them down.
The student loan program doesn't exist for the benefit of students, it exists for the benefit of the Education Blob which winds up with the money.
Abolish student loans & the Education Blob would be far smaller and poorer.