A Florida Appeals Court Denied a Parentless Minor a Waiver of Parental Consent for an Abortion
The case shows the power given to judges when parental consent or notification is required for a minor's abortion.

On Monday, a Florida appeals court upheld a lower court's decision to deny a 16-year-old girl a waiver that she sought in order to obtain a legal abortion at 10 weeks of pregnancy without the consent of her parents or legal guardian. Florida's First District Court of Appeal upheld the lower court's ruling because the teenager "had not established by clear and convincing evidence that she was sufficiently mature to decide whether to terminate her pregnancy."
While it is unknown whether Jane Doe has since received an abortion, a partially dissenting opinion authored by Judge Scott Makar makes clear that Doe did, in fact, display a remarkable degree of maturity in making her case to the lower court and that the lower court's decision to block her access to abortion care was an act of paternalism, not compliance with state law.
Jane Doe sought permission to receive an abortion during a nonadversarial hearing in the chambers of Judge Jennifer J. Frydrychowicz of Escambia County. Doe was accompanied by her case worker and a guardian ad litem child advocate manager. (She was entitled to a free lawyer but did not request one.) Doe sought Frydrychowicz's permission to get an abortion because she "'is not ready to have a baby,' she doesn't have a job, she is 'still in school,' and the father is unable to assist her," Makar wrote. "Second, the minor states that her 'guardian is fine with what [she] wants to do,' which would be a sufficient basis for a waiver of notice if other statutory requisites are met."
While the second reason presents a procedural issue—Jane Doe would not have needed a waiver of consent from a judge if her supposedly supportive legal guardian had simply consented in writing to her getting an abortion—Makar's reading of the transcript makes clear that Frydrychowicz blocked Doe's attempt to get an abortion not because of a procedural issue but because Frydrychowicz wanted to protect her from making a decision she might regret.
Yet, Makar's references to the hearing transcript make clear that Doe had fully thought through her decision:
Based on the hearing transcript and her written order, the trial judge apparently sees this matter as a very close call, finding that the minor was "credible," "open" with the judge, and nonevasive. Indeed, the minor "showed, at times, that she is stable and mature enough to make this decision." The transcript demonstrates that the minor was knowledgeable about the relevant considerations in terminating her pregnancy along with other statutory factors. She had done Google searches and reviewed a pamphlet (that she and a family member got from their visit to a medical clinic) to gain an understanding about her medical options and their consequences. Cf. In re Doe, 204 So. 3d 175, 177 (Fla. 1st DCA 2016) (Makar, J., concurring) (affirming denial of judicial waiver where the "minor did not know what the medical procedure involved"). The trial court noted that the minor "acknowledges she is not ready for the emotional, physical, or financial responsibility of raising a child" and "has valid concerns about her ability to raise a child."
The trial judge denied the petition but explicitly left open the availability of further proceedings by saying that the "Court finds [the minor] may be able, at a later date, to adequately articulate her request, and the Court may re-evaluate its decision at that time." (Emphasis added). The emphasized language indicates the trial judge must have been contemplating that the minor—who was ten weeks pregnant at the time—would potentially be returning before long—given the statutory time constraints at play—to shore up any lingering doubt the trial court harbored.
Throughout his opinion, Makar revisits the lower court's claim that Doe was not mature enough to choose an abortion for herself. He cites, for example, that she was open to being a parent, just not while she had no job, no high school degree, and no partner to help her:
In this regard, the key if not sole factor for "re-evaluation" would apparently be the trial judge's initial concern that the minor's "evaluation of the benefits and consequences of her decision is wanting." The detailed written order points out that the minor has evaluated the pros/cons in making her decision and the transcript reflects a similar mental process. Reading between the lines, it appears that the trial court wanted to give the minor, who was under extra stress due to a friend's death, additional time to express a keener understanding of the consequences of terminating a pregnancy. This makes some sense given that the minor, at least at one point, says she was open to having a child, but later changed her view after considering her inability to care for a child in her current station in life.
The fact that Doe "was open to having a child" but upon considering her resources, decided that she does not want to have a child right now, comes across to the lower court judge as immature ambivalence; yet no one would question the maturity of a 20-year-old or 30-year-old who sought an abortion for these same reasons. (The 1996 Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Act, passed by a Republican-led Congress and signed by Democratic President Bill Clinton, essentially sought to encourage poor women to do exactly this kind of cost-benefit analysis by capping the amount of welfare they could receive for their children.)
It is also not clear why the recent death of Doe's friend should matter in determining her mental readiness, given that Doe has already demonstrated she is aware of the massive responsibility childrearing entails, the details of the procedure she would be receiving, and the "consequences" of obtaining an abortion.
While Makar affirmed Frydrychowicz's ruling, he dissented from his colleagues on whether to remand the case back to the lower court.
"The legislature has provided a specific tool for an appellate court to remand these types of cases to achieve clarity and completeness where it may be lacking," Makar wrote. "Given the trial court's entreaty to the minor that it may 're-evaluate its decision' under the circumstances, as well as the unaddressed guardian consent issue, I would remand for the three-day statutory period to clarify such matters, and dissent on that basis."
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Too immature not to have a child, basically.
The neat thing about slavery is that since it does not require consent, there is no age of consent. Being forced into the involuntary servitude of labor is a given--provided Kleptocracy courts ignore the Thirteenth Amendment.
It's called responsibility.
If she isn't mature enough to decide whether to have an abortion, then why should she be held "responsible" for having gotten pregnant?
It's a nice deal you kiddie fuckers have created for yourselves. She's plenty mature enough for sex AND to abort your downie offspring without parental or custodian involvement.
If she’s not responsible enough to have a baby, how is she responsible enough to be having sex?
Excellent! Since they are good for absolutely nothing else but crime and grifting, they all should be back in chains--and shipped to Liberia where they belong. Or in other words, are you sure you're commenting in the right thread, McGee?
Frydrychowicz blocked Doe's attempt to get an abortion not because of a procedural issue but because Frydrychowicz wanted to protect her from making a decision she might regret.
That’s literally her responsibility as guardian: to make that decision.
Camp seems to be under the impression that the hearing is a formality, and the waiver is supposed to be automatically granted.
Seems that if you are a young woman without parents to approve you are not getting an abortion. The originator of these parent consent laws always told us that it would not be a problem because young woman like Doe could get court approval. Guess those pushing the parental consent bill were just feeding us fertilizer.
BTW - I approve of parental consent because a parent will look out for a young person. Something not guaranteed by a court.
She has a guardian who can, and verbally stated they would give consent. She's not an emancipated minor.
While the second reason presents a procedural issue—Jane Doe would not have needed a waiver of consent from a judge if her supposedly supportive legal guardian had simply consented in writing to her getting an abortion...
See, this bit here seems to be the thing that ended the case versus any other factor. Everything past that point is just a bunch of people emoting.
If she was an emancipated minor or if they had just filled out the paperwork, it seems none of the emoting would mean jack or shit.
She has a guardian who can, and SHE verbally stated would give consent. The above doesn't say the guardian so consented; If the guardian had, the wavier wouldn't have been needed in the first place!
I'm pretty sure that the court had to say no because the guardian hadn't signed the consent waiver. I see it as likely that after the ruling the guardian probably did sign the consent waiver and they then set out to have the abortion legally. I'm also pretty sure Emma Camp is not pursuing the final outcome of this issue nor will we ever hear of it again on Reason.com.
Read it wrong. The guardian just had to give consent and not sign any waiver which is probably what happened and then they sought out a legal abortion.
What you're neglecting, that the judge went out of his way to point out, was that IF she did have the guardian's permission, there was no point in being in a court asking for a waiver of that permission.
So she likely didn't have that permission, and was lying about it. And the judge was just doing her a favor by not taking judicial notice of the perjury.
Now, maybe she never asked her guardian, and would have gotten a yes when she did. Or maybe she had asked, and already had a no. But the one thing you shouldn't be confident of is that the guardian had OK'd the abortion, because in that case she wouldn't have been in that court room, which is what the judge was getting at, while avoiding calling her a liar.
She was entitled to a free lawyer but did not request one.
Something something, represents herself something something immature fool for a client.
The fact that Doe "was open to having a child" but upon considering her resources, decided that she does not want to have a child right now, comes across to the lower court judge as immature ambivalence; yet no one would question the maturity of a 20-year-old or 30-year-old who sought an abortion for these same reasons.
Fuck that noise. Too young to vote. Too young to drink alcohol. Too young to purchase a gun. Get the fuck out with the old enough to exercise her right to be forgiven for murder bullshit.
does not want to have a child right now is in fact routinely considered shitty reason to have an abortion.
It’s why pro choice people are always talking about ectopic pregnancies.
The pro-coathanger people never mention the threat of deadly force that is required to enforce even the most sensible laws that protect the rights of individuals. The Fugitive Slave Law cartoon shows a gun in the hand of the bounty hunter alongside
Texas Governor AbbottSenator Webster "conquering prejudice." Army of God vigilantes are more honest in killing doctors by sniping, ambush and crass acts of murder.The pro-pierce-the-skull-and-suck-out-the-brains people never mention ... blah blah blah
The pro-leave-the-baby-on-the-stainless-steel-table-till-it-dies-of-neglect people.....
the.... .well, you get the idea
If you want your arguments to be given consideration perhaps dont be a dick.
Hank Phillips is a mentally deranged senile old piece of shit. Just ignore him.
Too young to vote and to young to drink but mature enough to have a child...
Are you arguing that a 16 yr. old should be able to own a gun and drink or are you trying to elide the point by fucking equal protection under the law in order to kill babies?
The age of consent is the age of consent. Emancipation is emancipation. This girl has neither. The guardian is responsible for them both the way my dad was responsible for 'my' rifle when I was 12. Giving her an exception because you want to abort babies is fucking disgusting from all kinds of moral angles.
Makes sense to me... NOT!
Put the child up for adoption after birth. If the question is one of "can I take care of it", there's your answer.
If the question is "I'd rather not have my young body go through the process of pregnancy because I don't want stretch marks", count me slightly less supportive.
Hey look, the pedophile who got his Sarah Palin's Buttplug handle banned after posting hardcore child pornography at Reason.com supports underage minors being able to get abortions without the input of a parent or guardian. Color me shocked!
Although, contrary to what you may have heard on televison shreek, it's not actually possible for 8 year old little boys to become pregnant. So you're not in any danger there.
Yeah, that line is stupid for the mere fact that lots of people do “question the maturity” of a woman getting an elective abortion because she doesn’t want to deal with a crotch goblin.
Someone *should* question the maturity of the 20-year-old or 30-year-old.
Goddamit Reason. This is not a story about the state exercising power.
This is a story about a judge deferring to a guardian.
Is this the same journal that complains when judges tell parents they aren’t supervising their kids closely enough?
The libertarian position is pretty ducking obvious. It’s not judges second guessing parental decisions on medical procedures.
I’m sorry this conflicts with your absolutist position on infanticide.
I’m sorry this conflicts with your absolutist position on infanticide.
The story is such a tortured illogical clusterfuck it's not even funny. She's such a strong independent girl, with no parents, no education, no job, and no boyfriend, that she deserves to be free of the consequences of murdering an unborn child. After all no one would question a 20 or 30-yr. old woman with no parents, no education, no job, and no boyfriend murdering their own unborn child. Now, if a 20 yr. old dude with no parents, no education, no job, and no girlfriend assaults a pregnant woman and kills her baby, that dude deserves to go to jail. No questions asked.
It's called responsibility. I thought libertarians opposed the initiation of force.
Except against unborn children. Initiate all the force against *them* that your heart desires.
So compelling a gal to choose between a coathanger and the involuntary servitude of forced labor by having men with guns threaten to kill doctors is NOT slavery, but rather, deferring. If the slave is not a member of the set of "All persons born", fine and dandy to force a choice between a whip and obedience. But as soon as that girl was born and became a person to the Pyramid Eye of the U.S. Constitution, forcing her to reproduce is enslavement under the 13th Amendment. (https://bit.ly/3QzGQ2d)
Hey look, a 'libertarian' that doesn't consider the ending of a human life to be a violation of the NAP.
I mean, one can certainly start an educated and civil discussion of when life actually begins but since you start off with a 'murder vs. murder' dichotomy one might assume you're not very serious on the subject.
If someone eats a high carb diet, are we forcing them to get fat by refusing them liposuction surgery?
Reproduction is a natural consequence of choices, the same way obesity is a natural consequence of choices. Natural consequences are not enslavement.
Give the child up for adoption. The girl's qualms about being able to take care of the child can be addressed without killing the child.
Spreading your legs and letting a guy stick his dick in you is no more "involuntary" than you snacking on a runny pile of your own shit every time the orderlies come and change your depends is "involuntary", Hankie. Can't you just stick to historically illiterate gibberish about how God's Own Prohibitionists disguised themselves as an 80% majority of Democrats to ban alcohol a hundred years ago when you were a spry young 40 year old?
You REALLY have a hard on for slavery don't you. You know there's a category on Porn Hub for that, right? Maybe you'd be happier over there....
>>remarkable degree of maturity in
failure to use proper means to avoid teen pregnancy.
Okay, so I'm going to talk about this again. This was mentioned in the Reason Roundup yesterday and I made some comments on it:
https://reason.com/2022/08/17/what-we-know-about-the-fbis-latest-national-human-trafficking-sting/?comments=true#comment-9655228
My high level reading of the opinion is this:
The guardian can give approval for her to get an abortion. The guardian did give verbal approval, and would just have to sign a waiver. So, this isn't an issue of the girl not being able to get an abortion, she can get one at any moment. Here's a line from the opinion:
A limited statutory remand is particularly appropriate given
that the petition essentially says the minor’s guardian agrees to
the termination of pregnancy, which would be a legally sufficient
basis for a waiver—an issue raised indirectly in the petition but
not addressed in the trial judge’s order. The minor wrote that her
guardian “was fine” with the minor’s decision. This statement was
written in the section of the form petition related to whether it was
in the “best interest of the minor” for a parent/guardian to not be
notified, which was out of place on the form but not a basis to
disregard the apparent possibility of guardian consent. If the
minor’s guardian consents to the minor’s termination of her
pregnancy, all that is required is a written waiver from the
guardian. § 390.01114(4)(b)2., Fla. Stat. Such a written waiver
would be self-executing, meaning that the minor need not invoke
the judicial bypass procedure at all.
This case linked to was an appeal from a trial court which determined that the girl was not mature enough. The opinion linked explicitly states that the appeal process is not to base itself on the facts of the matter, but on whether the lower court did its job correctly. They determined it did, and even they disagree in some way it is not the appeal courts duty to overturn a trial court. The dissenting opinion agreed with the general opinion, only changing in that they would have remanded it down to the lower court for a reconsideration.
Basically, unless I'm misunderstanding the opinion, I believe this article drastically misrepresents what is going on.
Thank you for doing Reason's job and actually investigating this. Maybe you should start a substack; might get a few subscriptions.
So, I'm just gonna go through the rest of the article and complain.
yet no one would question the maturity of a 20-year-old or 30-year-old who sought an abortion for these same reasons.
Many, many people would. You're making an age of majority distinction into one of maturity and wisdom. That should not be presumed.
It is also not clear why the recent death of Doe's friend should matter in determining her mental readiness, given that Doe has already demonstrated she is aware of the massive responsibility childrearing entails, the details of the procedure she would be receiving, and the "consequences" of obtaining an abortion.
She states it. It's because it had just occurred. The girl was waffling anyway, and she seemed emotionally disturbed by the death of her friend. It's why the trial judge said she should come back again after slightly more time has passed to give her some additional time to think about it.
I am not certain this is an unreasonable thing. The judge is making a judgement call on whether a parental/guardian waiver should be overriden, and she's taking these facts into account to say that they should not. Once again, she can just have the guardian sign a piece of paper. So, unless the stance towards parental consent laws is "We should have them, but not really" then this is a weird stance for the author to take.
and the "consequences" of obtaining an abortion.
The use of scare-quotes here barely makes sense. There are consequences of me going and drinking a glass of water right now. The attempt to imply there are no implications to abortion are false, and you're attempting to short-circuit the conversation about what those are and whether they matter. I'm guessing your stance is that there are no negative consequences to abortion. Feel free to state that instead of attempting to elide the conversation. Reason is a place of opinion journalism. That's fine. Don't try to sneak around having the argument though. That's just cowardly.
Come on BUCS, this doesn't allow us to push the narrative of abortion scare mongering. A minor's life, somewhere, could be ruined because they're forced to suffer the consequences of their actions. We should throw rule of law out the windows. Sure, children cannot get their ears pierced, get tattooed or visit the dentist without parental consent, but abortion and sex change operations are TOO important to be left to icky, conservative parents to decide.
Plus, modern journalist cannot be expected to actually investigate or read beyond the character limit of Twitter posts. Trust the blue check twitter overlords. They NEVER have a bias.
There's two issues here.
I'm sure my pro-life stance is coming out somewhat, so that's one issue but not the one I'm trying to emphasize.
The second is more important, a combination of disregard for rule-of-law if it disagrees with what you want at a given moment and a seeming misrepresentation about what is being discussed anyway.
I keep saying it, I'm not a lawyer and have been corrected here before on things related to it. I'm trying to get better at my understanding. I basically started reading opinions and consistently found, at many places, that the basic facts of what was stated were misrepresented. And that bothers me a lot. I am unclear if it is laziness, incompetence, moving too quickly, or malice. I think it's a serious issue though in journalism.
Law is weird, and what judges do, particularly appeals judges, is really not understood well. It is consistently misrepresented here. Listen to how often SC cases and their outcomes are discussed as if they're criminal trials.
And, you know what, I push back on your comment that modern journalists cannot be expected to investigate. Some do, and it brings shame upon this website to be so sloppy. They need to clean-up their editorial.
This has been a running complaint since about 2016. It’s at least partially responsible for the Glibening.
And, to be clear, it is not everyone. I can agree or disagree with Christian, Tucille, Slade, Nick. They tend to not have obvious contradictions.
I don't mind disagreeing, I'm sure I can get pissy at times because I'm a pissy little boy, but we keep getting more articles that I believe or misrepresentative of the underlying information. This is especially true for discussion of legal opinions.
I agree with your list and I would add Robby even though I give him shit sometimes, but that’s mostly because I think he’s a good writer and generally libertarian so I get disappointed in some of his more ridiculous hot takes.
Still, it seems like the journalist class took a head beating when Trump got elected and most still haven’t recovered.
"The guardian did give verbal approval, and would just have to sign a waiver."
"The minor wrote that her guardian “was fine” with the minor’s decision."
To be clear, we have no evidence that the guardian had actually given any sort of approval. We have the minor's claim that the guardian had said this. In a filing with the court.
As the judge pointed out, if the guardian wanted to approve the abortion, no waiver hearing was even necessary, the guardian had full authority to approve it without the court's help.
If you had any capacity to read between the lines at all, you'd figure out what's going on here: The judge thinks the minor probably lied to the court about the guardian's consent in a court filing, and is giving her an opportunity to avoid ending up charged with that offense.
Lessseeee .....
Immature enough to get pregnant, while in school, with no job, and with a father who is not mature enough to take care of his child.
Immature enough to reject a free lawyer.
Immature enough that the guardian would not grant the waiver.
Where is this maturity of which you speak? I'd say, if anything, that she has shown so much immaturity, that anything she chooses will also be immature and wrong.
Blaming this on the judge shows the immaturity of the author, not the legal system.
The guardian WOULD grant the waiver. That's what makes this even more absurd. The opinion even says she can go get an abortion TODAY.
Yes, I wrote my comment before you investigated and showed the Reason summary was so poorly investigated and sloppily written.
We only have her word for it that the guardian would grant the waiver. Did you not pick up on that, and the fact that, if the guardian is really willing to grant the waiver, the court hearing wasn't even necessary?
So, why was she in the courtroom in the first place? Try putting two and two together!
If the guardian consented then there would be no need for the legal proceedings or a waiver.
Where is the maturity to be a mother, or to make an emotionally difficult choice to give her child up? Abortion is not the only decision that may be regretted.
No premise proposed by Reason can be trusted at face value.
Too many lies too often to have any credibility.
Two possibilities. Either she's lying about the guardian giving permission (in which case the request should be denied on the basis that she's lying to the court) or she's not (in which case the request should be denied as a waste of the court's time, since there's no reason for a *waiver* of the guardian's permission if the guardian is giving permission.)
Three: Government courts lie to us all the time. A proper oath would be "I swear I would no more lie to the government than the government would lie to me."
So you're saying we can't trust the summary of facts in the decision, in this or any other case? I mean... OK, but then it's impossible to have any meaningful discussion at all here.
Except when it's secret FISA courts authorizing political spying based on an oppo dossier, right you decrepit stupid old piece of shit?
Third possibility: The judge thinks she's lying to the court about it, and is attempting to avoid ruining her life by taking judicial notice of the lie.
Isn't that just the first option but with judicial sympathy added?
A third option is the minor and guardian are out of contact for an extended period (boarding school, sick grandparent in another state, anime protagonist, etc) but I don't see where that possibility is supported.
Good
The problem with these arguments that immature people need to be protected from decisions they might regret is that a lot of times they are invoked in situations where the person might have good reason to regret either course of action. This girl might regret getting an abortion, but she might also regret not getting one.
Imagine if you were trying to between buying two cars of the same approximate price, and someone argued that you shouldn't buy one car because "it costs money." That isn't a good argument because both cars cost money! Similarly, "they might regret it" is a terrible reason to bar someone from making a decision one way, if they might also regret making the decision the other way.
In fact, you could use the same logic to compel minors to have abortions. Since some people regret not having an abortion, you could argue that all minors who don't want to have abortions need to be forced to have them anyway, since they might regret it if they don't.
In general, any time someone is making a decision where either outcome could be regrettable, and it isn't possible to postpone that decision until they mature, they should probably be trusted to make that decision. There really isn't much of an alternative.
The alternative is to allow the guardian to make the decision, I guess.
Following Sumner's "The Forgotten Man" formula, altruists and mystics seek to make pets out of classes they generalize and make impersonal. Here it is unborn who constitutionally are not-yet-legal persons. Therefore the sword of Quixote flashes against the windmill of genuine individual rights to enslave those whose rights ARE recognized by the 14th Amendment--by all but the mystically superstitious initiators of deadly force in violation of the 9th and 13th.
Ctrl+f "regret": 9 results.
Ctrl+f "consequen": 0 results.
Get the fuck out of here with your teen girl hyper-emoting bullshit. Putting regret above consequences to self and others? You're a fucking child and somebody else *should* be making your decisions for you literally so you don't hurt yourself or someone else.
What a fucking moron.
This is a shreek sock that shows up in every single abortion thread and every single pro-kiddie-fucker thread and relentlessly spams nothing but pro-kiddie-fucker bullshit. Just continuously point out that he's a disgusting piece of shit kiddie fucker who got banned for posting child porn. He doesn't warrant any further consideration.
Yes, if you are a child, someone more mature than you should be making decisions so you don't hurt yourself or someone else. But the idea that a girl is immature to decide in favor of an abortion but is mature enough for what necessarily follows if she does not get one, is just... Ubelievable.
If people don´t get it, I´ll try to explain. If the choice is between drinking alcohol and not drinking it, the choice to drink may lead to you harming yourself, the choice NOT to drink does NOT.
If the choice is between getting a tattoo or not getting one, the choice to get the tattoo may lead to you harming yourself, the choice NOT to does NOT.
If the choice is between staying in school and starting a business, one of these choices is something you, as a child, are normally supposed to do, and the other is something you normally shouldn´t be doing yet.
Therefore, by not letting children to drink, get tattoos or quit school and start earning money, you are protecting their physical and mental health and normal childhood as it is at the moment, i.e. preventing them from harming themselves.
If a girl gets pregnant, however, there is no choice that will allow the girl to continue her childhood as if nothing happened. Either she gets an abortion, or she does not, and if she does not, and a sponetaneous miscarriage does not occur, she will give birth.
The pregnancy and birth will affect her body physically in a significant way, and no, not in a positive way. Then after birth, there are two choices - motherhood or adoption. Both are very significant life choices, with significant consequences - and yes, so is abortion. All of these choices may be regretted for various reasons. But there is no choice that will enable her to resume her "normal" life without making a difficult choice that she may once regret!
And, looking objectively on these choices, the most "normal", "natural" one, i.e., motherhood, is the one with the most serious consequences for her future, one that requires the most maturity and responsibility. So, how can a girl be mature enough for motherhood but not for an abortion?
Yeah, we already got your pro kiddie-fucker take on your other sock, shreek.
I'll see your 'Judge makes idiotic ruling, therefore the law is terrible' and raise you
"NYC sex offender, 55, who punched diner, fracturing his skull and causing a brain bleed, is allowed to WALK FREE after attempted murder charge is downgraded to a misdemeanor"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11124859/NYC-sex-offender-WALKS-FREE-attempted-murder-charges-downgraded-misdemeanor.html
Same argument, so Bail Reform is terrible, right?
1. Hard cases make bad law. 2. The instance is not a generalization. 3. The judge did make an idiotic ruling, hence appellate courts, remands, etc... This particular judge strives to make us think better of Czolgosz, Guiteau, and... saaaaay... didn't a judge get shot a couple of weeks back? Whatever happened to that story?
The special in special pleading has the same meaning as the special in special education for Hankie the worthless old senile kiddie-fucker piece of shit.
Silly me for thinking earlier when he was apprehended that he might be in jail for a while with a high bail set.
Why visit NYC? Nothing exists there that is worth losing one's life.
It's kind of amazing how both sides in this seem to have entirely missed the point. Birthing a child is not the same as parenting a child. It is extraordinarily clear that the women in question should not be raising a kid. The only question is whether to adopt the kid out in 7 months or abort it now. Not having a job is unrelated to that decision. Any supposed immaturity related to wanting to have a child in the future is unrelated. It really comes down to balancing future guilt for the abortion vs the current downsides of being pregnant and giving birth. Yet, that seems to have all been set aside to have an absurd argument about whether or not a 16 year old orphan who wants to terminate her fetus should be a parent; a question with such an obvious answer, that it really didn't need to be argued (which is why it is all the more baffling that the judge in question appears to be arguing for 'yes').
It isn't so simply as that. Maternal Mortality is a real thing and should definitely be part of the conversation if discussing "what is best" for a teen in terms of physical and mental well being.
Also, if the teen in question wants it and the guardian is okay with it ... then why does a government official need to get in the way ? Why do they even have a role in the conversation ?
Yes, the 1 in 500,000 chance that a healthy 16 year old might die during child birth in a modern clinical setting should be given very serious consideration.
Wash the cum out of your eyes and try reading the article and the comments you stupid cunt. If the guardian had actually signed off on the abortion then the court proceeding would have been superfluous. The government official did not need to get in the way or have any role in the conversation, but the 16 year old braindead cunt apparently reads at the same level you do and instead refused to consult with a free attorney and submitted a document to the court claiming, in the wrong part of the form, that her guardian was OK with the abortion.
Ad Hominem , the attack of choice for the typical comment section neanderthal .
In your haste to be offensive, you missed the point. That point being girl and guardian should have been able to go straight to clinic, no government busybody needed.
If the guardian actually agreed with the girl, they could have avoided all of this….
That's not what "ad hominem" means you colossally stupid cunt. I didn't suggest your argument should be dismissed because of your personal qualities, I just insulted you in the course of utterly obliterating your ignorant, nonsensical sputum.
No, I didn't, you're just an incredibly stupid cunt who can't read. Try it one more time, stupid cunt:
The girl and the guardian *COULD HAVE GONE STRAIGHT TO A CLINIC, NO GOVERNMENT BUSYBODY REQUIRED*. Do you understand that you stupid cunt? Can you read, stupid cunt? Serious question, stupid cunt, because you are spewing total non-sequiturs that could only come about as a result of total illiteracy. You don't have a fucking point, stupid cunt. Do you get that? Let that sink into your stupid cunt head and marinate for a bit. Let's go over it one more time, stupid cunt: There was no requirement in the state of Florida for the girl and her guardian to go through a court or government agency to procure an abortion, she just needed the permission of her guardian. Instead of taking her guardian to an abortion clinic and getting an abortion, stupid cunt, the 16 year old stupid cunt whose intellectual capacity is, astonishingly, even smaller than your own, opted to represent herself in court, forego the FREE attorney that was provided for her, and filed a document with the court seeking to get the abortion without her guardian. On the wrong section of the form that she submitted to the court she claimed that her guardian approved the abortion. If that were the case, and here's the salient point again, stupid cunt, so pay special attention. You ready now stupid cunt? Here we go: SHE. COULD. WALK. INTO. ANY. ABORTION. CLINIC. IN. THE. STATE. OF. FLORIDA. WITH. HER. GUARDIAN. AND. GET. AN. ABORTION. WITHOUT. A. JUDGE. OR. ANY. GOVERNMENT. OFFICIAL. SIGNING. OFF. ON. IT. No judge or 'government busybody' was ever required if she actually had the permission of her guardian, as she claimed.
Unfortunately, stupid cunt, I can't possibly make it any simpler than that, so study that for the next 8-12 hours and see if any of it ever absorbs through your shit-thick skull and into your stupid cunt-brain. When you're done you can feel free to apologize for being a stupid cunt, or just shut your stupid cunt-mouth and keep it that way.
Giving your child up for an adoption is also a difficult decision a young girl may regret later. Is she mature enough for such a decision?
What kind of monster tries to equivocate between killing an innocent life vs letting that innocent life be given to loving parents that want it?
Adoption may be more emotionally difficult for a woman or a girl than an abortion. Leaving your kid forever after 9 months of pregnancy and after holding the baby in your arms, not knowing what will happen to him or her, may be worse than saying goodbye to the fetus before it even becomes a child.
The Florida judge is at least demonstrating to half of all voters the kind of cruel endangerment batshit-crazy mystical altruists inflict if handed the power. Kansas' vote, like those of Canada, Ireland, Argentina, Colombia, Texas' neighbor Coahuila and lately, Sinaloa, are signs that handing power to mystical bigots like Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, Trump, Greene Teeth, Graham Cracker and Abbott is lighting your own ballot to kindle arson of the Bill of Rights.
Good job Hankie, a few of those words are from the English language.
Another rousing meeting of Libertarians For Statist Womb Management and Big-Government Micromanagement Of Ladyparts Clinics.
Carry on, superstition-addled clingers.
You rape little boys, Artie, this discussion literally couldn't have less to do with you. Now go play in traffic.
We certainly would. However, the line is drawn at 18, and after that age, if people are immature like that, they have to deal with the consequences themselves.
I also like the reframing of the welfare limitations as a pro-abortion piece of legislation instead of the cost limiting policy it was.
Sorry Emma, the feel good crap decisions made by others aren't my responsibility. If you were a libertarian instead of a progressive you might understand
What is immature about deciding to NOT become a parent when you don´t feel you could give it 100 % at the moment?
Anyone know a site where real libertarians hang out and comment? This ones stinks of day old MAGA.
Derp da derp da tiddly terp.
Judging by the 20-30 links to Salon that you post every day in your Sqrsly copypastas, I should think you'd be quite happy commenting there, sarcasmic.
The article says she had her guardians permission.
That means no need for court.
There are lies afoot.