A Year After the U.S. Withdrawal, Getting Out of Afghanistan Was Still the Right Call
Biden brought an unwinnable war to an end. But the lessons learned are only as valuable as the U.S. government’s willingness to put them to good use.

This month marks the one-year anniversary of the U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan, which put an end to America's longest war.
Though 70 percent of Americans polled last year by the Chicago Council on Global Affairs supported President Joe Biden's decision to withdraw U.S. troops, they're now roughly split on the issue. When asked by YouGov and The Economist this month whether the U.S. made a mistake by withdrawing troops from Afghanistan last year, 40 percent of poll respondents said yes, while 39 percent said no and 21 percent said they weren't sure. Broken down by party, 61 percent of Democrats felt the withdrawal wasn't a mistake, while 68 percent of Republicans felt it was.
America's campaign in Afghanistan failed, but not for lack of trying. To date, the U.S. has spent over $2.3 trillion on the war—not including down-the-road interest payments on money borrowed or the lifetime care that veterans will require. It's estimated that over 46,300 Afghan civilians, 69,000 Afghan military and police officers, and 6,200 U.S. contractors and soldiers died during the conflict, according to Brown University's Costs of War Project.
Many aspects of the withdrawal could've been handled better. Since last August, critics have argued that leaving a residual troop presence would have ensured stability in Afghanistan at little cost to American lives and finances. But government reports released over the past year cast doubt on that approach, and on the idea of a sustainable nation-building presence in Afghanistan.
Last August, the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR) released a report that named several key factors that doomed America's nation-building efforts. Among other failures, the U.S. government struggled to develop and carry out "a coherent strategy" and worked on unrealistic timelines that in turn encouraged quick spending and corruption. American personnel were often "unqualified and poorly trained." The government couldn't adequately tailor its work to the country it sought to transform.
America's strategy initially focused on Al Qaeda, but eventually became a much more nebulous reconstruction and anti-corruption mission. Officials felt that preserving stability would require building institutions and infrastructure, though the plans to do those things changed often. Douglas Lute, who coordinated Afghanistan strategy at the National Security Council for six years, said officials "didn't have the foggiest notion" of what they were undertaking. "With an ever-increasing list of enemies and priorities, it was tempting for U.S. officials to believe the solution was more troops and more aid," notes SIGAR. According to a senior U.S. Agency for International Development official, "The strategy was 'money expended equals success.'"
Officials misjudged how long reconstruction would take and often injected their own political preferences into what it should look like. The U.S. government "prioritized tangible projects on which money could be spent and success claimed more quickly" over less visible objectives that may have had more lasting effects. The Department of Defense's military organization that was tasked with training the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces didn't hold the body accountable, "simply performing tasks for them and providing funding regardless of actual progress." Money was often appropriated in Washington more quickly than it could be spent in Afghanistan.
American officials regularly failed to find enough qualified personnel for their ambitious projects. In 2009, the military reassigned chemical warfare response units to civil affairs projects, only giving them four-week-long PowerPoint crash courses to prepare. "With such a training deficiency" in policing, notes SIGAR, "some police advisors turned in desperation to television shows like 'Cops' and 'NCIS' to become more familiar with policing." Turnover was so bad that "every agency experienced annual lobotomies," with new staff doomed to make the same mistakes as their predecessors.
On a very basic level, U.S. officials didn't understand Afghanistan. That led to material issues, like U.S.-designed schools requiring the usage of cranes, which was impossible in much of the mountainous country. Planners selected obviously unusable construction sites for projects, like steep slopes and riverbeds. But more fundamentally, nation-building efforts neglected existing Afghan institutions and customs. That enabled certain "local allies" to exploit U.S. agencies "for financial gain and share a portion of the proceeds with insurgents." Officials attempted to instill American values and preferences into many Afghan systems without determining whether that was actually possible.
From the initial invasion to the withdrawal, the U.S. lacked the strategy and clarity needed to succeed in Afghanistan. Indeed, the definition of success changed dramatically between those two points, as the mission became much more complicated than just fighting terrorists.
Countless SIGAR reports over the years have exposed contract fraud and theft, deep-rooted corruption in the Afghan government, and policies that encouraged Afghan forces to over-rely on the American presence. Given the gravity of the failures outlined by SIGAR, there's little reason to believe they would've been magically resolved if only American troops had stayed a bit longer.
Unfortunately, American military engagement since the Afghanistan withdrawal proves that the U.S. government may—albeit on smaller scales—be doomed to repeat many of the mistakes it made in Afghanistan. America spent $300 million per day in Afghanistan with inadequate oversight; as of mid-June, it was spending $130 million per day in Ukraine with similarly shoddy monitoring. U.S. officials kept the American public in the dark on how poorly the war in Afghanistan was going; in July, The New York Times exposed the "stealthy network of commandos and spies," involving CIA personnel, who had covertly entered hostilities in Ukraine. Lessons learned are only as valuable as the U.S. government's ability to put them to good use.
Three presidents kept the U.S. entangled in Afghanistan in spite of the factors that spelled failure for the American campaign. After two decades of shifting goal posts, exorbitant spending, and futile reconstruction efforts, Biden was right to withdraw U.S. troops and put an end to the unwinnable war.
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Getting Out of Afghanistan Was Still the Right Call
The Biden regime didn't make that call, the Taliban made it for them.
In a way, they really did. Biden and his team wanted to get that dumb 9/11 photo op even though the Taliban had actually lived up to the agreement hammered out with Pompeo that the US would withdraw by April, before fighting season kicked up in earnest. As a result, the US ended up scrambling to get out once it became clear the Taliban were cutting through the Afghan army like a hot knife through butter.
As a result, the US ended up scrambling to get out once it became clear the Taliban were cutting through the Afghan army like a hot knife through butter.
'Hot knife through butter' and not like an Asov Regiment through Spetznaz?
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Either way the outcome was good for USA.
Not for the 13 dead soldiers or any citizens stuck there.
Biden has a lot of blood on his hands.
Or the carload of children killed in retaliation for the 13 dead soldiers.
13 dead much better than 3000 dead.
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"Either way the outcome was good for USA."
You're full of shit.
Excellent logical argument.
More than a steaming pile of lefty shit deserves.
When the US entered Afghanistan, there were 200K Taliban "fighters".
When the US left Afghanistan, there were 200K Taliban fighters.
We literally did nothing.
If there needs to be a patriarchy somewhere, I can't think of a better place for those idiots to try to live out their fantasy.
You need to check your facts. Afghanistan's population in 2001 was 21M and in 2022 it was 40M. In 2001 only a portion of Afghanistan was under Taliban, they had old soviet weapons. Now entire AF is under their control and they have American weapons.
I bet Af has now 400K or so armed men.
Trump made the call and worked out the deal. Then Biden botched the pullout. It’s all his fault.
Another democrat success story.
Fall of Saigon 2: Electric Boogaloo
We had peacefully managed to almost completely withdraw under Trump. Biden tossed his plan, tossed his implementation team and unilaterally changed the terms of the withdrawal causing the violence and panicked withdrawal.
Who in there right mind doesn't think so? Kind of beaten this to death. Seems like they want to associate "gone" with Biden. Do not associate "leaving" with Biden though?
"Quick timelines encouraged waste and corruption."
No. People were wasteful and corrupt. They chose to be wasteful and corrupt. This "Blame it on the process" nonsense is why our government is increasingly bad at every job it does.
This war was nothing more than a mechanism to enrich contractors and other cronies who in turn enriched government bureaucrats. And those same people are now in charge of the defense of Taiwan, and arming of Ukraine. And many of their brothers in arms run the CDC, SEC, FDA, State Department, CIA, FBI and numerous other government functions.
The only thing eclipsing the incompetence of our government is the smug, Top Man attitude that leads it to blindly repeat these fiascos day after day, year after year.
Three presidents kept the U.S. entangled in Afghanistan in spite of the factors that spelled failure for the American campaign. After two decades of shifting goal posts, exorbitant spending, and futile reconstruction efforts, Biden was right to withdraw U.S. troops and put an end to the unwinnable war.
No. No. Just no.
According to wingnut.com Biden's decision to withdraw and subsequent sloppy pullout was the worst foreign policy decision in US history and has led to his miserable 40% approval rating.
shreik the kiddie-diddler seems to have forgotten yet again that Biden's ratings started to nosedive after the withdrawal fiasco. He also seems to have forgotten that withdrawal had already started before Biden took office.
Biden's ratings started to nosedive after the withdrawal
That is exactly what I wrote, you fucking lying moron.
You do a shitty job. OBL fills in for you better than you do.
OBL went to college.
He also doesn’t post links to kiddie porn.
He also doesn’t post links to how to eat rabbit turds (AKA "smart pills") from underneath the rabbit hutch... In quite the EXACT WAY that R Mac likes it! Hey look, R Mac LIKES it!!! (ONLY if the dining tips on eating rabbit turds were written by THE Perfect R Mac Itself!!! Praises Be Unto It! All Hail!!!)
Trump actually made the decision and got the aiban to agree to it, then Biden delayed it engaging the taliban and then had 13 troops die in the worst draw down ever managed.
Good work shrike.
Like Donnie Boy made the "decision" to build a border wall? And to cut the deficit? And to replace Obamacare? And to control COVID? And to control China trade?
Decisions mean nothing without action.
Trump was a failure in all the above.
Did you read where Biden kept building that wall, and where Arizona is filling in the last 100 foot gap with containers?
You're a piss poor amateur. Leave the job to OBL.
So once again Biden has to do a job Donnie-Boy wasn't capable of.
You know, it is in general difficult to defend Biden and his lackluster presidency but you Trump cultists make it easy.
All I have to do is compare him with that buffoon Donnie-Boy - who at this moment is probably looking for the "real killer" with the Pillow Guy and the other incompetents that surround him.
Sad
Oh, so there were no lawsuits from Dems trying to block the building.
I'll add your knowledge of border wall issues to your ignorance list.
The solution is to SEND TRUMP SOME MORE $$$MONEY$$$, oh ye fools of SOOOOO little faith!!!
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mypillow-guy-mike-lindell-punts-timeline-for-trump-retaking-power-as-august-conspiracy-theories-get-wackier
MyPillow Guy Punts Timeline for Trump Retaking Power as Conspiracy Theories Get Wackier
https://www.salon.com/2021/08/22/mike-lindell-still-in-trumps-good-graces-has-new-prediction-reinstatement-by-new-years/
The Lord Trump didn’t return to us as scheduled, but the Second Coming is now re-scheduled. You can TRUST us THIS time, for sure!
The Lord Trump DID return to us faithful ones, but He did it in an invisible way! Hold strong in your Faith in Him!
The Lord Trump didn’t return to us yet, this is true! It only did NOT happen because YOU were not faithful enough, and didn’t send Him enough donations!
The Lord Trump didn’t return to us yet, but He DID miraculously protect us all from the VERY worst forces of Evil, which is Der BidenFuhrer! Hold fast in your Faith… Lord Trump will come back VERY soon now! Especially if you send Him more money!
The Lord Trump moves in Mysterious Ways! All will be revealed SOON! Especially if you have Enough Faith to DONATE till it HURTS!
You should be put to death.
Oh cool, so illegal immigration problem is now solved once and for all. Nice job everyone!
Neither Trump nor Biden, or at least the people presumably tasked with it, had much of a plan to withdraw from Afghanistan.
You're full of shit:
"I ran Team Trump’s Afghan withdrawal — Biden’s attempt to blame us is just sad"
[...]
"President Joe Biden has sought to place blame for the shocking dénouement in Afghanistan on the situation he “inherited” from the Trump administration. What a sad-sack attempt at blame-shifting. Team Trump’s withdrawal plan was sound. What proved catastrophic were Biden’s changes to that plan.
[...]
We handed our entire plan to the incoming Biden administration during the lengthy transition. The new team simply wasn’t interested.
Everything changed when the new commander in chief declared that US forces would leave Afghanistan by Sept. 11, 2021, pushing back the Trump administration’s timetable by four months. Crucially, he didn’t condition the withdrawal on continued adherence to the agreed-upon stipulations. It would be an unconditional pullout with an arbitrary date based on pure symbolism — and set in stone...."
https://nypost.com/2021/08/19/i-ran-trumps-afghan-withdrawal-bidens-attempt-to-blame-us-is-sad/
The really sloppy policy is your continued presence here.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. Rather than follow the will of Reason’s staff, you resurrected that identity and continue to post here. A decent person would realize how abhorrent this behavior is, burn the SPB identity and return under some new handle. While that wouldn’t change your despicable appetites, it would at least respect a community’s wishes to not mix with pedophiles. But since you have no shame, the only thing I and others can do is point out your past behavior rather than converse with you.
Why did you come back after being annihilated by Overt over your banning for posting kiddie porn, pedo?
If anyone missed said annihilation, here’s the thread:
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635696
The pedophile, sarah palin’s buttplug, should really be in prison for his crimes against children.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. Turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
Turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Haha. “40% approval rating.”
Funny stuff.
Why is Biden getting credit?
OrangeManBad. OrangeManBad made the agreements, negotiated the exit, and was the party that got us out of there. Biden fucked up the timetables, tried to extend the time we were there, and made the withdrawal from Saigon look organized and planned by comparison. Biden owns the fucked up way the exit was done.
+
You know for a fact that it would have gone better with someone else in the White House? Same military, same state department. Probably would have been a shit show no matter the party of the president.
Yes. Biden himself made the extensions. It's well documented here. He's the most inept President since Jimmy Carter, and maybe since James Buchanan.
Former President Trump is the fourth-lowest-ranking U.S. president, according to C-SPAN’s 2021 President Historians Survey.
C-SPAN’s survey, first conducted in 2000, includes 142 historians, professors and other professional observers of the presidency who gave all former presidents a score from one to 10 in multiple leadership characteristics. The results are then averaged to tabulate a score.
Trump received a score of 312, giving him a ranking of 41 and placing him above former Presidents Pierce, Andrew Johnson and Buchanan. This is Trump’s first time appearing on the list, with the last survey having been released in 2017, when his term had just begun
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/560926-trump-ranked-fourth-from-worst-in-c-spans-2021-presidential-rankings/
Here, you suck as a wingnut. Let me help you out:
HUNTER BIDENS LAPTOP!!! DERP!!! BLOOP !!!!! BENGHAZI !!!!!!!!
and yet, Biden's poll numbers are worse then Trump's...
Biden's record speaks for itself. Buttplugs are kind of shitty, aren't they.
Oh, and FOAD.
Fourth lowest. That is some kind of insult. haha. And who is number #1 Sir Buttplug?
By default, you can be #2. Just beware of SQRLSY.
Jack Frost may be nipping at your toes, or your nose, ass the case may be...
Butt SQRLSY One is nipping at your nads!!!
(Butt only if'n ye be a good-lookin' Babelicious Babe... Otherwise, Homey don't roll that gay way! NOT that there's anything WRONG with that gay way, fella!!!!)
Nobody gives a fuck what you have to say you goddamn oedophile.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. Turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
Turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Youre saying it could have gone worse? Are you trying to defend him? Because engaging the taliban by changing dates because you hate the person who was president before is a good way to get the other side (taliban) to be a bit pissed off.
And yes you are defending him with an assertion that it would have been just as terrible no matter who was in office which is a terrible assertion meant solely to remove blame from the person in charge.
Enraging*
When the other team gets something right, give the previous administration credit. And when they do something wrong give them all the credit. You dove into that one head first.
The facts of the matter have been explained here repeatedly. Your intentional ignorance is no surprise.
He can’t bring himself to criticize his team.
Actually, the truth is that Biden's tenure in Afghanistan was the least harmful of any president.
Let's look at Donnie-Boy for you in his cult.
60 US soldiers died in his four year term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan
Vs 13 in Biden's SLOPPY PULLOUT!
60 is worse than 13 even to a cultist.
And he finally got out.
So, you cultists lose to logic once again.
(oh, don't give me any "aftermath" shit. Islam is a fucked up ideology and they were doomed no matter when we left)
Lesseeee .....
Trump, 4 years == 15/year.
Biden, 6 months == 26/year.
You still suck. OBL still does better.
Biden's tenure in Afghanistan was the least harmful of any president.
13 and out.
Definitely the best TENURE by far.
You didn't address my rebuttal, you just repeated your failed talking point.
Buttplug -2, reality +2.
"OBL still does better."
If I keep at this for another decade, one day I might be half as good as Mr. Buttplug at the #DefendEstablishmentDemocratsAtAllCosts game.
Don’t forget the razor sharp financial analysis.
Something about spitt'n tobaccy?
Don't sell yourself short. You're four times as half as good as Mr. Buttplug.
Although your specialty is economics, you do some of your best #DefendBidenAtAllCosts work when discussing foreign policy.
I remember those weeks you spent spamming SLOPPY PULLOUT whenever anyone suggested the withdrawal was handled in a less than competent fashion. It was such a clever way to shut down any discussion that reflected negatively on the Biden Administration.
I also remember the day you decided, actually, you know what, we should emphasize what a humiliating catastrophe those final couple weeks were — because JuanCole.com told you the whole thing was Drumpf's fault. 🙂
#LibertariansForBiden
Dude, you just keep getting better. It's a gift.
Man, this is a pretty wild argument to make.
I will jump off this stupid point to make my own stupid point though. This really shows how casualties are not the major concern for this war. Except for the surge, the amount of American soldiers killed was low. 2000 over 20 years really is unremarkable, and I believe the deaths in Afghanistan the last few years were less than deaths in training incidents.
But, here's a larger view of things:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)#:~:text=During%20the%20War%20in%20Afghanistan,at%20least%2052%2C893%20opposition%20fighters.
(One thing I will note, is the huge amount of Afghani soldiers who died. I dislike painting them all as uncaring and corrupt. Many did fight and die, and they deserve respect. I digress.)
The underlying question wasn't one of casualties. I think it was a question of costs, and overall direction. Should we have been there at all? If so, what was our goal. It was becoming harder to sell that to the people.
I still feel very mixed about the withdrawal, and I hated a lot of rhetoric around it, but ultimately I think we're out now and we should learn from this and avoid more occasions such as this one.
God, I hate that little text highlight thing search engines do now.
"OrangeManBad????"
NOTHING is as stale as “orange man bad”!
(With the implied idea being that “anyone who says bad things about Orange Man, no matter HOW long and well-documented the list of Trump evils may be, such bad-things-sayer must be a stupid moron”).
Albert Einstein delivers a long lecture with 553 equations and tons of evidence. Conservative moron will say that Einstein said “stuff and stuff is relative”, and walk smugly away, thinking that they have “summarized” Einstein!
Conservative moron will ATTEMPT TO START to tour Holocaust museums and “summarize” by saying “Mustache Man Bad”! (And skip the tour, lest they might actually learn something).
Fucking stupid, smart-ass moronic conservatives STOP smugly posting vacuous “Orange Man Bad”, if you EVER expect to convince data-driven thinkers of ANYTHING!
He pussy-grab His creditors in 6 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me realty schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!
All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!
Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!
Orange Man Bad-Ass Pussy-Grabber all right!
We CAN grab all the pussy, all the time, and NONE will be smart enough to EVER grab our pussies right back!
These voters simply cannot or will not recognize the central illusion of politics… You can pussy-grab all of the people some of the time, and you can pussy-grab some of the people all of the time, but you cannot pussy-grab all of the people all of the time! Sooner or later, karma catches up, and the others will pussy-grab you right back!
https://reason.com/2019/12/11/trump-abused-his-power-but-a-hasty-impeachment-will-undermine-that-point/
“Orange Man Bad” as a summary from conservatives, of page after page after page, detail after detail, testimony upon testimony, of HOW and WHY Orange Man is a lying hypocritical narcissistic and corrupt, self-centered weasel, who is ruining the good reputation (for years if not decades) of the USA, internationally, shows the utter contempt that conservatives hold the rest of us in! “Here, dummy, I can summarize ALL of the encyclopedic knowledge that has been gathered concerning Der TrumpfenFuhrer, so that YOU (dumbshit) will NOT have to trouble your pretty little head, studying all that boring stuff! It just amounts to Orange Man Bad, end of story!”
Don’t study medicine or boring medical texts… I will summarize it for you! “The human body is made of icky pus and smegma, slimy blood and mucus, and icky poop!”
Law summary: “He or she who habeas the corpus, must take proper care of it.”
Computers? Stop studying, you fool! “Learn to code; garbage in, garbage out; just be logical!”
Electrical Hardware Engineering? “Don’t stick your diode in an anode! Sparks is as sparks does!”
And then conservatives and other Trumptatorshit worshippers and ignorance worshippers have the NERVE to say, “We need more SKILLED AND TALENTED immigrants and fewer ignorant ones coming into the USA!”!
https://reason.com/2019/12/02/trump-once-again-falsely-claims-that-ukraines-president-has-exonerated-him-of-abusing-his-powers-for-personal-gain/#comment-8032666
Nothing is as stale as “orange man bad”!
(With the implied idea being that “anyone who says bad things about Orange Man, no matter HOW long and well-documented the list of Trump evils may be, such bad-things-sayer must be a stupid moron”).
Albert Einstein delivers a long lecture with 553 equations and tons of evidence. Conservative moron will say that Einstein said “stuff and stuff is relative”, and walk smugly away, thinking that they have “summarized” Einstein!
Conservative moron will tour Holocaust museums and “summarize” by saying “Mustache Man Bad”!
Fucking stupid, smart-ass moronic conservatives STOP smugly posting “Orange Man Bad”, and I will stop posting my reply!
"A Year After the U.S. Withdrawal, Getting Out of Afghanistan Was Still the Right Call..."
Yes, getting out of Afghanistan should have happened about 18 years before it actually did. The manner in which it was done was utterly inept though. That's how Brandon rolls.
And how much, most, of the media attempts to cover for him.
aspects:
The invasion of Afghanistan in response to 9/11; kill the leaders and operatives of the attack on the US. I initially thought this was the "mission."
Mission creep, seeking to install a "little America" government and prop it up, aka "nation building." Doomed to fail, and we should never ever undertake anything like that again. Hearts and minds my ass. They weren't prepared for it, didn't want it, and it wasn't happening no matter how many lives and billions of dollars were expended.
The actual withdrawal. This was an unmitigated disaster and is squarely on the demented fool in the White House and his lackeys.
Yep. Well said.
Correct!
First GWB, then Obama wouldn't arrange a proper strategic withdrawal after winning the initial battles - instead they left it to demented Joe to preside over the most foolish, chaotic, and ill executed withdrawal in modern history. What a shame!
Yes. The war was not lost, the deradicalizing of Afghanistan was lost, and perhaps was not possible to win. It remains to be seen whether that is not a bad result, though.
We'll see how China does.
Afghanistan is a special place. Very backwards people, little education, no communication networks, roads are sparse, regional control is via warlords, and the Taliban wins because they're the most brutal and best at keeping the warlords on their side.
Kabul was once on its way to modernizing, but the Soviet occupation and the power vacuums it left just wiped out all of that. Once you get out of Kabul, you might as well be in a different century.
Maybe China will be able to extract their mineral resources , but I genuinely wonder if belt and road wouldn't become a quagmire for them, too.
The difference between the US involvement in Afcrapistan and China's is that China will be willing to break eggs to make the omelet. The US tried too hard to be the nice guy, and the Taliban didn't respect that. China is willing to be ruthless and operate with the Taliban on their own level.
biden sucks
And Harris blows.
/sorry, couldn't resist.
Ms. Author forgets whole fucking thing negotiated before Brandon stole office.
Fuck that noise.
As others have said, Trump negotiated the deal with the Taliban. Biden delayed it, then rushed it, and in general fucked it up.
How many clown pieces does Reason have to write before its
writerseditors recognize TDS? Maybe you ought to hire some actual writers for a change. Or maybe this is your contribution to 1984's NewSpeak.Trump negotiated the deal with the Taliban
You meant "Trump surrendered to the Taliban"
What were Bush and Obama, sliced turkey?
What was Biden, just a craven running coward?
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. Turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
Turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Eat shit and die, turd.
Kill yourself.
They're "left libertarians". They wouldn't realize TDS even if the cocktail party they were invited to told them flat out what it is and that they have it bad.
Trump did not negotiate anything as his that "agreement" was a joke. The Afghani government - remember them - was not part of it and did not participate, and Trump invited his Taliban buddies to Camp David. That was another Lil Kim useless and non-specific photo op, not a serious agreement.
No one expected the complete and immediate collapse of the Afghani government, including the Taliban, and without them at least holding Kabul for a week - our intelligence said they could survive - there was no way the exit was going to be anything but chaotic. That's on the Afghhanis leaders who pocketed the money we gave them to defend their democracy - instead of paying their troops - and folded like a cheap suit.
OK, I'll bite -- if Biden pretended to honor Trump's agreement, what does that make him?
So Biden delayed the withdrawal to make it better? Please tell us how that improved things, dumbass.
Trump did not negotiate anything as his that "agreement"
Contradiction in the first sentence. Nice.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Fuck off and die, Asshole.
"That's on the Afghhanis leaders who pocketed the money we gave them to defend their democracy"
That's on the "intelligence" community and politicians for being too stupid to understand (and too arrogant to think there was a need to) anything about the culture, government, and people of Afghanistan.
"No one expected the complete and immediate collapse of the Afghani government..."
Except anyone who knew anything at all about Afghanistan and the Afghani "government."
Bullshit. Exactly zero of the military intel guys I work with were surprised when the Afghanis rolled over for the Taliban. A lot of them had been deployed there and knew the real situation on the ground.
The only lesson learned should be that Biden is utterly incompetent and that he should be kicked out of office ASAP.
That's why he chose Kamala.
A form of insurance, which is exactly what Biden was Obama, so where does that put us on a scale of gross ineptitude?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/OTUS/bin-laden-letter-kill-obama-leave-totally-unprepared/story?id=16270376
"The reason for concentrating on them is that Obama is the head of infidelity and killing him automatically will make Biden take over the presidency for the remainder of the term, as it is the norm over there. Biden is totally unprepared for that post, which will lead the US into a crisis. As for Petraeus, he is the man of the hour in this last year of the war, and killing him would alter the war's path. So please ask brother Ilyas to send to me the steps he has taken into that work," bin Laden continued.
"o where does that put us on a scale of gross ineptitude?"
On a death spiral.
Yeah, and his incompetence included getting more votes than any president in our history, beating Trump's fat ass in both debates according to polls and informed analysis, and getting more legislation through with 50 senators than anyone this side of LBJ. Yeah, real loser!
By the way, competence is not a characteristics those who supported Trump should be claiming to value.
Lying pile of lefty shit here spouting more bulshit.
Fuck off and die, Asshole.
Biden sitting in his basement not knowing what his campaign website was saying what positions he was running is not a demonstration of competence.
It will be a great day when the democrat infestation is finally cleansed. I hope you suffer exquisite agony.
When asked by YouGov and The Economist this month whether the U.S. made a mistake by withdrawing troops from Afghanistan last year,
The withdrawal, advisable at almost any point in the last decade or more was a clusterfuck of mistakes. Turns out when your poll is a false dichotomy, you get shitty results.
"Biden brought an unwinnable war to an end"
Trump brought an unwinnable war to an end. Biden fucked up the drawdown and withdrawal solely because orange man is bad so everything must be done differently.
Just stop with the constant gaslighting, Reason. We're all capable of remembering the last three years.
Anne Heche dropping in on her neighbors - still the right call.
Why piffle about the execution of the particulars, right?
Excellent metaphor.
Biden made sure the US suffered it's largest humiliation since Vietnam.
It was the right thing to do, but not in this foolish and chaotic manner!! It did NOT have to end like that!!
No one said it was the wrong call. Trump would have gotten us out to, he actually had a plan. What people have said, and I agree Biden had no plan and it was a disaster. There is video of Biden's speech saying it would no be like Vietnam, withe helicopter rescuing Americans of the roofs and that is exactly what happened. Not only that but Biden left American citizens, people that helped America would be retaliated against, billions in military hardware and equipment, and also sensitive data. He closed the biggest and last air base which was the main cause of the disaster. Biden blamed everyone but himself for the rout. And it was not retreat, but the worst rout the US ever had.
Reason again sugar coats and cheer leads for the disastrous Biden that takes no responsibility for anything.
Oh, and the lying government and media that said the FBI did not take Trump's passports have now stated the FBI have now given the passports back to Trump.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me over and over, shame on Reason.
Nice fantasy. With Mother claiming Trump did get us out, she wins the wishful thinking award, but you're 2nd.
Eat shit and die, Asshole.
Go drink Drano. You’re a lying propagandist.
This tends to happen when you staff positions that require skilled and competent professionals with social justice warriors.
Such as the Clinton's and Haiti.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/clintons-pushed-most-wasteful-of-u-s-funded-haiti-projects/
It is worth remembering that then VP Biden had advanced the idea of a smaller US footprint in Afghanistan. President Obama was instead persuaded to surge US troop into the country. So had VP Biden idea been accepted we might have been out earlier.
The exit is a good example how a two-party solution sometimes works better than a one-party solution. Had President Trump not laid the footwork for the withdrawal, I don't think President Biden could have gotten a start on a withdrawal. Conversely had Trump been President when the withdrawal was set to happen, he likely would have been pursued to hold off on the withdrawal, as President Obama was pursued to surge. In a way each party had the other to take some of the heat off.
"We might have been..." "Likely would have been..."
You are the most postulating "both sides" pandering fool I have ever encountered; anywhere.
This forum is almost all purely opinions. It's not at all unreasonable to qualify those opinions in some way. What's absurd is blindly asserting opinion as fact as happens way too often or castigating anyone who has the smattering of humility and awareness of one's own fallibility needed to make such qualifications.
If you’re going to jump in as a white night you should know who you’re jousting for. This is recurring M4E: playing the “both sides” schtik while not so surreptitiously promoting an agenda, which invariably in line with progressive Democrats. IOW, “let’s just all get along but go this way.” I find it inherently dishonest as well as despicable.
You have much to be humble about, asshole.
My driving to the store for groceries is also the "right call". That fact doesn't excuse me plowing through my neighbor's front wall when I go to back out of my driveway.
Even if you think getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do, that in no way excuses or justifies the criminal levels of incompetence shown by the White House, the drooling moron President, the Intelligence Community, and DOD in conducting that withdrawal. It should be noted that DOD did everything it could to disobey and disrupt Trump from getting the US out of Afghanistan only to then be a part of Biden's criminal incompetence.
Briggs you clown, the chaos was due to the Afghani government collapsing in days, which was a surprise even to the Taliban. Tell us how exactly Trump - who signed away on his deal which only asked the Taliban to please don't kill us as we left - would have fared better?
Joe Assshole, you lying pile of lefty shit, fuck off and die.
Please don’t kill us? He told them he bomb the shit out of them if they tried anything with our people, and as a result there were 0 deaths in the last year of his presidency. Fvckin imbecile
Well, Trump's plan was to be moving out while the Taliban were still snowed in up in the mountains. Biden wanting his stupid 9/11 photo op gave them months of perfect fighting weather.
You have no business criticizing anyone here. You are a subnormal treasonous fool who is Ana advocate of child grooming. By rights you should have your skull smashed in. So show some fucking manners.
"Tell us how exactly Trump - who signed away on his deal which only asked the Taliban to please don't kill us as we left..."
Sounds like Trump fully expected the Afghani government to collapse almost immediately, if he wasn't even involving them in negotiations.
Heh. Posted a very similar example below! Kudos.
Many aspects of the withdrawal could've been handled better.
This seems a bit of an understatement and burying the lede, to put it mildly. Both Trump and Biden were committed to a policy of withdrawal. So, the only matter for debate is execution. So, does abandoning Bagram Air Base as a first order of business (denying it as a resource for the evacuation) constitute competent execution? How about abandoning our agreed-upon withdrawal date and later setting it earlier? Is that competent execution? Predicating our withdraw on the notion of a stable allied Afghan government (when sudden shifts in loyalty had been the hallmark of the invasion itself)? Was that competent? Announcing the immediate withdraw in the beginning of the "fighting season", how competent was that? I could very easily go on.
You don't have to believe in foreign adventurism to believe that the Biden administration made an utter hash of the withdraw. Especially when a plan for an peaceful, orderly withdraw was already in place.
In other news, Fiona Harrigan informs us that "many aspects of the Titanic's navigation could have been handled better". Biden gives us the biggest cluster fuck in the history of American foreign policy and reason is forced to admit "well it could have been handled better".
Why do people think reason is a Democratic shill magazine pretending to be a libertarian one? The mystery continues.
Anne Heche could have been a better motorist
Still would.
Not to mention the billions of dollars worth of military equipment Biden simply abandoned to the Taliban.
"The Times of London reports that the US simply abandoned a truly astounding arsenal of military equipment and weapons. This reportedly includes up to 22,174 Humvee vehicles, nearly 1,000 armored vehicles, 64,363 machine guns, and 42,000 pick-up trucks and SUVs. So, too, the list of allegedly abandoned weaponry includes up to 358,530 assault rifles, 126,295 pistols, and nearly 200 artillery units. Oh, and the Taliban will likely inherit state-of-the-art military helicopters, warplanes, and other aircraft from the US, too.
Including four C-130s and 33 Blackhawks?
https://fee.org/media/40233/graphic.jpeg?width=314.2419601837673&height=600
Things could have been handled better. Mistakes were made, okay. This is reason. You can't tell the unvarnished truth about Democratic incompetence. That is what you do with Republicans silly.
You can't handle the unvarnished truth.
Fuck off and die, lying Asshole.
Biden studiously stuck to Trump’s detailed point by point plan to hastily pull the troops out first, with no warning to any of our Allie’s, and leave behind the civilians, the intelligence, and all the equipment in perfect working order that was in essence one of the top 15 militaries on the world….
Live never once told the truth. The only value you have is to provide another example of why democrats cannot be allowed in America. We need to revoke your territorial residency.
America is for Americans, not democrats.
A Year After the U.S. Withdrawal, Getting Out of Afghanistan Was Still the Right Call
What a strawman. When I'm coming home from the grocery store, making a right turn from the street into my driveway is the "right call." It's running over a half dozen nuns and orphans when I do it that's the problem.
I have to wonder, what point was Harrigan trying to make here? I mean, she can't be that unaware that she doesn't realize that the point almost every one of us here made in response was going to be the critique of her article. And instead of addressing the overwhelming objection to her thesis, she spends the entire article arguing that being in Afghanistan was a mistake, which is pretty much a "no duh!".
No one overtly disagrees with the idea of getting out of Afghanistan. The issue was HOW it was done under Biden......total botched mission.
"Biden brought an unwinnable war to an end."
Takes a certain imbecility to write taht sort of bullshit, and it seems we have that sort of imbecile right here.
"Ending" it had been effected by Trump, and Biden was handed an agreed-upon, organized plan to get out.
Which he promptly fucked up, like everything else that doddering pile of shit touches.
And what was Trump's plan? Yes, Biden screwed it up. Even if there was no plan, I'd think there was certainly time enough to come up with one. However, if you claim Trump had a plan, there should be some sign of it. On the other hand, if the withdrawal was to have been by April, wouldn't there have been enough time for this after Trump was re-elected? (I have no knowledge about what kind of timeframe is required for this.) I suppose a big part of it is when the Pentagon, who I assume would be responsible for the withdrawal, was notified to begin planning for it.
I did find this:
The Trump administration in February 2020 negotiated a withdrawal agreement with the Taliban that excluded the Afghan government, freed 5,000 imprisoned Taliban soldiers and set a date certain of May 1, 2021, for the final withdrawal.
And the Trump administration kept to the pact, reducing U.S. troop levels from about 13,000 to 2,500, even though the Taliban continued to attack Afghan government forces and welcomed al-Qaeda terrorists into the Taliban leadership.
Biden delayed the May 1 withdrawal date that he inherited. But ultimately his administration pushed ahead with a plan to withdraw by Aug. 31, despite obvious signs that the Taliban wasn’t complying with the agreement and had a stated goal to create an “Islamic government” in Afghanistan after the U.S. left, even if it meant it had to “continue our war to achieve our goal.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/08/timeline-of-u-s-withdrawal-from-afghanistan/
I guess I didn't get the HTML italic tags correct.
There's plenty of "signs" of it, to pick one:
"Afghan conflict: Trump hails deal with Taliban to end 18-year war"
[...]
"Mr Trump said 5,000 US troops would leave Afghanistan by May and he would meet Taliban leaders in the near future, without specifying where.
The US and Nato allies have agreed to withdraw all troops within 14 months if the militants uphold the historic deal.
Talks between the Afghan government and the Taliban are due to follow.
Under the agreement, the militants also agreed not to allow al-Qaeda or any other extremist group to operate in the areas they control..."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51692546
And here:
"I ran Team Trump’s Afghan withdrawal — Biden’s attempt to blame us is just sad"
[...]
"President Joe Biden has sought to place blame for the shocking dénouement in Afghanistan on the situation he “inherited” from the Trump administration. What a sad-sack attempt at blame-shifting. Team Trump’s withdrawal plan was sound. What proved catastrophic were Biden’s changes to that plan.
[...]
We successfully executed this plan until Jan. 20, 2021. During this interval — when there were no US casualties in Afghanistan — President Ashraf Ghani and the Taliban conducted multiple rounds of negotiations, and al Qaeda was sidelined. The result was a successful drawdown of US forces in Afghanistan to 2,500, the lowest count since the dawn of the War on Terror.
[...]
We handed our entire plan to the incoming Biden administration during the lengthy transition. The new team simply wasn’t interested..."
https://nypost.com/2021/08/19/i-ran-trumps-afghan-withdrawal-bidens-attempt-to-blame-us-is-sad/
The U.S. contractor knows the Taliban are closing in and tells his wife it's time to grab the kids and run for their lives. Oh, but they can't get thru the airport without their passports. Do spend a moment, then, to grab the passports, make sure they are the correct ones, not expired ones some persons save, and they run for their lives.
The interpreter who helped U.S. forces is told to go to the U.S. embassy, where they offer some forms and tell him they will call him in a few months for an appointment. On 7 August 1998 U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania got blown up and it is obvious that the State Department deserved it.
Afghanistan". A poll that doesn't distinguish between whether withdrawal was a mistake, or the way we withdrew was a mistake. They should have asked both questions, but that's more embarrassing for Biden.
It's kind of funny, Fiona didn't mention Trump announced he was going to pull out of Afghanistan, before Biden took credit for it, announcing it like it was his idea. Is there any doubt Trump would have pulled out in a more logical way, even while he was being constantly impeached?
Bush's invasion of Afghanistan was the foolish choice, like going to war with a country because pirates were operating nearby and allegedly in that country, when the target was just Bin Laden. Obama handled Bin Laden via a Seal Team raid in Pakistan in an appropriate use of force but changed nothing in Afghanistan.
Fiona deserves credit for showing the goal was and still is MIC spending. Interesting to learn only 5% of the deaths were US lives. And it was just 2 presidents who kept the US entangled, not 3. And of course, it was right to withdraw, but not the way Biden did it.
The first paragraph above should read:
Fiona misreads the poll that asks "whether the U.S. made a mistake by withdrawing troops from Afghanistan". A poll that doesn't distinguish between whether withdrawal was a mistake, or the way we withdrew was a mistake. They should have asked both questions, but that's more embarrassing for Biden.
Victory was achieved in about 90 days. Al Qaeda training camps were cleared out and sufficient notice was given to warlords, Taliban or otherwise, that an Al Qaeda training camp in or near their village was going to cause them much grief.
After that, you had mission creep extraordinaire -- assigning the military a non-military mission with infeasible political objectives.
A central government in this area? You've really got to be joking. A central government in this area is about a century away if then.
If I never hear the phrase “hearts and minds” again in my lifetime, or “nation building,” that will be fine with me.
Does Fiona have any understanding of the realities of the events she is babbling about? I think not.
No.
"Many aspects of the withdrawal could've been handled better."
Going for the Understatement of the Year award here.