After 2 Consecutive Quarters of Negative Economic Growth, Is America in a Recession?
Most Americans believe so.

Economic reality cannot be denied—but can it be redefined?
That's what the Biden administration is about to find out, following the release on Thursday morning of a report from the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) showing that the United States has endured back-to-back quarters of negative economic growth—a situation that meets the standard definition of a recession.
According to the BEA's assessment, the country's economic growth slipped to an annualized rate of -0.9 percent in the second quarter of the year (which ended on June 30). That comes on the heels of a -1.6 percent growth rate in the first quarter of the year. The fact that the economy shrunk less in the second quarter than in the first is a hopeful sign (at least things aren't getting worse at a faster rate), but the combination of high inflation, a cooling housing market, and business inventory issues is clearly taking its toll.
And after back-to-back quarters in the red, the country has hit the "commonly used definition of a recession," as The Wall Street Journal put it Thursday.
But the White House has spent the past week or so laying the groundwork for a novel argument about this recession: What if it simply isn't happening?
"Two consecutive quarters" of negative growth is "not the definition of a recession," claimed White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre earlier this week, during a verbal sparring match with a reporter. That came after Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen appeared on NBC's Meet The Press last weekend to declare that "this is not an economy that is in recession."
And even Larry Summers, former President Barack Obama's treasury secretary who has become something of a nemesis for the Biden administration after correctly predicting that inflation would take off this year, has joined the chorus. On Monday, Summers told CNN's Don Lemon that "the overwhelming weight of the evidence is that we are not in [a] recession now. The negative GDP is, in a sense, misleading"—though he added that a recession is likely still on the way due to the "overheating" economy.
Some of the murkiness and confusion have to do with the backward-looking nature of the economic data that we have no choice but to use. If you take the BEA's assessment as true, it means the country has been in a recession for as long as six months now—but you never know that a recession has started until it is well underway and, for the same reason, you never know that it is over until months after it's technically done.
It will take even longer to get an authoritative answer from the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), a private group that is as close to an official arbiter of recessions as America has. (The NBER's definition of a recession takes into account monthly indicators like employment, personal income, and industrial production along with quarterly GDP growth, and two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth often, but not always, correspond with an official recession.)
But politics demands an answer now—there's a midterm election coming up, after all. That's the main reason why the White House and its allies are spending so much time arguing that we're not in a recession, and why others are so keen to apply the label.
While the overall economic picture is obviously negative, the White House and its allies are right that other signals are mixed. Brian Deese, director of the White House's National Economic Council, argued during a press conference on Wednesday that consumer spending "remains solid" and other indicators of a recession like credit stress and falling industrial output are not materializing. And the economy continued adding jobs throughout the second quarter, he noted, with the unemployment rate holding steady at 3.6 percent in recent months—hardly a number that normally rings the alarm bells.
Clearly, this recession (if we can call it that) is an unusual one. Perhaps that's to be expected. After all, the country is climbing down from two years of stratospherically high deficits that powered previously unseen levels of government spending that overcooked the economy while the COVID-19 pandemic choked supply chains. The whole situation was unprecedented, and so it's hard to know exactly how the final stages will play out.
So…does it matter what we call it?
"The recession obsession is bizarre," wrote Bloomberg journalist and podcaster Joe Weisenthal on Twitter earlier this week. "The economy is what it is. Inflation is way too high. The labor market in the first half grew quite rapidly. Real wage growth is negative. There are signs of cooling. What additional info is revealed by designating it a recession or not?"
Weisenthal has a point in the sense that it's basically impossible to collate all the various and often-conflicting, always-lagging data about an impossibly complex and ever-changing economic system into a simple binary of "recession" or "not recession."
This is, essentially, the game that the White House wants us to be playing. If you're mulling postmodern questions about the basic definitions—what does any word mean except the thing we all agree that it means, man—then you've already tacitly accepted that it's possible this time is different. Maybe this time two consecutive quarters of negative growth isn't really a recession.
For Veronique de Rugy, the Reason contributor and George Mason University economist, a recession is a lot like a common law marriage.
"When everyone considers someone to be married, even if they aren't officially married, then eventually that carries the legal weight of an actual marriage," says de Rugy. The same is true about the definition of a recession, she adds, referring to the commonly understood classification of two consecutive quarters of negative growth. "Everyone has been using [that definition] for so long that it acts as a formal definition."
Admittedly, libertarians are always going to be tempted to accept the emergent order explanation. But I think we can take this line of thought one step farther. A recession isn't a recession merely because a collection of economic experts have unofficially created a formal definition of one. The real test of the White House's this-is-not-a-recession messaging strategy is whether actual people believe it.
Most of them don't. An Investor's Business Daily poll released earlier this month found that 58 percent of Americans believe the country is in a recession, up from 48 percent just two months ago. A CNN poll released the same week found worse numbers: 64 percent of Americans say the country is in a recession, including 56 percent of self-identified Democrats.
Deese and Summers can call it whatever they want, and the academic debate among economists is interesting to some degree. For the purposes of politics, however, the power to declare recessions as happening or not doesn't really reside with the White House, the front pages of The Wall Street Journal, or even the National Bureau of Economic Research.
Are we in a recession? You tell me.
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It is fucking sad to watch reason destroy itself in it's twisted attempts to support the leftist junta that has infected this country.
Can you even read?
Basically says, "It doesn't matter what funny math or nuanced redefining of recession you do, we're in one."
Somehow that's full blown support of the regime to brain rot idiots like you.
Pathetic simping, gay.
That’s not what the article says, gay. It says you tell me what a recession is, gay. Can you even read, gay? Thought so. Totally gay.
I mean boehm literally says:
So…does it matter what we call it?
So no. He is not saying we are in one.
He literally says, I apologize that I don't know how to make italics.
Admittedly, libertarians are always going to be tempted to accept the emergent order explanation. But I think we can take this line of thought one step farther. A recession isn't a recession merely because a collection of economic experts have unofficially created a formal definition of one. The real test of the White House's this-is-not-a-recession messaging strategy is whether actual people believe it.
Not gay.
Did you read the article? It constantly agrees with the points the left is making about it not really being a recession.
Where, precisely, does the article say that?
But the White House has spent the past week or so laying the groundwork for a novel argument about this recession: What if it simply isn't happening?
...the White House and its allies are right that other signals are mixed.
So…does it matter what we call it?
Maybe this time two consecutive quarters of negative growth isn't really a recession.
Are these enough direct quotes from the article that aren't attributed to other people saying something to qualify as Boehm is agreeing with the points the WH and left are pushing? I would quote the whole article but since you didn't read it, you probably wouldn't read a copy of it.
New York (CNN Business)ExxonMobil and Chevron both reported massive profit jumps thanks to record gasoline prices during the quarter.
Exxon's profit, excluding special items, came to $17.6 billion in the second quarter, nearly double what it made in its very profitable first quarter as oil and gas prices started to soar in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Second-quarter profit was up 273% from the same period a year ago.
You mean, supply and demand is a thing? No way!
Stay away from the Monkey Pox, gay.
HoMoPhObE!
Ah, so you are one of those Conservative retardo boys who thinks that the white house controls the free market.
LOL.
It is laughable how little you conservative kloogs know about how the economy works.
Are you responding to something else?
Someone who is as thick as you seem to be?
Who said anything about the White House controlling the economy?
New York (CNN Business)ExxonMobil and Chevron both reported massive profit jumps thanks to record gasoline prices during the quarter.
Exxon's profit, excluding special items, came to $17.6 billion in the second quarter, nearly double what it made in its very profitable first quarter as oil and gas prices started to soar in the wake of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Second-quarter profit was up 273% from the same period a year ago.
You mean, supply and demand is a thing? No way!
This is like that Monty Python parrot sketch. It's not a recession, the economy is just pining for the fjords!
this is Ipswitch.
It's like the fish dance sketch. And we're getting knocked into the canal.
The definition of recession is two quarters of negative growth. It is like saying that three strikes is an out, a matter of agreed upon rules. The Democrats can say it is not a Bad Recession, or that is one that is transitory, but to deny that it is one is trying to change rules in the middle of the game.
But under many circumstances that is only true because we don't count what would have been considered a strike just moments earlier.
I'm with gay on this one. Author is saying it doesn't matter what the White House says, because it changes nothing.
So the White House is a powerless thing that can spew lies and disinformation at will with no consequences to anyone?
It has been for the last 1.5 years.
It doesn't even matter if it's lies and disinformation, if the majority of Americans don't believe what the white house says it doesn't really matter. The white house can claim there is no recession, no inflation, that people are better off today than they were in 2019, but if the majority believe there is a recession, inflation and they can't afford food today when they had disposable cash 3 years ago what they white house says just makes them look like idiots. In the same vein if the white house says guns are used more often for murder than any legal use or that most abortions are actually due to rape and the people believe their lies then it does have consequences.
Does this surprise you?
Monty Python: The best thing to come out of England in the last 50 years!
Normally, reading these articles and even the comments, makes me tear up and worry that the world is failing.
But, reviewing that sketch from ages ago, reminded me that irony can be hilarious.
Well, recession is typically defined as three quarters of negative growth.
If you feel that you aren't making enough money then you should get out there and get a better job.
Well, recession is typically defined as three quarters of negative growth.
Or two quarters if you go back through all of economic history.
You mean two quarters. Do you get paid for your disingenuous?
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth-annual
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in the United States expanded 1.60 percent in the second quarter of 2022 over the same quarter of the previous year. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis
Damage control. That has nothing to do with the negative growth we had over the last two quarters, i.e. recession.
Will you stop being dishonest?
What's a "woman"?
Is it "racist" when a black person hates on white people when blacks are 12% of the population?
Redefinition of words is a leftist specialty.
Be better Reason.
"Redefinition of words is a leftists specialty."
Thats.... what the article says?
Be better, Think it Through
the article addresses redefinition of words.
What are words for, when no one listens anymore?
What are words for? Violence, my friend (silence is also violence).
Nobody walks in LA.
Especially not in a Wordy Rappinghood.
Tina Weymouth was hawt.
fucking love Missing Persons. I never change the channel.
this style wreaks of Joe Friday.
Confirming what we all knew. Joe Friday is gay.
gay has also been redefined.
How can you be gay if you never leave your mom’s basement?
Maybe Joe Friday was 'elected' as gay, since he never leaves the basement.
Language is constantly evolving to reflect the understanding of the time.
As technology has advanced, Language has become more technical and precise.
Long gone is the flowery, vague, ancient version of English that existed in Shakelspear's time.
Without a precise language there can be no precision thinking.
Conservatives can't manage the evolution of language because they are stuck in the 1700's and desperately doing everything they can to return there.
Holy shit. You really are a parrot of the left. Please tell me you are at least paid for your soul selling?
What's a "woman"?
If you don't know then you should consult a dictionary.
You don't know how to use a dictionary?
You poor conservative Kloog.
Um, it ain't people on the right who can't define what a woman is.
Yea, right. So my plane's speed and altitude have been dropping for the last two minutes, but look, the engine rpms are increasing! Can't be heading for disaster, we're actually climbing and speeding up. Must be!
Recessions are a natural consequence of Capitalism.
They are part of what is known as the "Business Cycle".
You poor ignorant little boy.
Maybe you could spend a few minutes and learn how Capitalism works.
There have been capitalist economies that have not gone under recession, doofus. It's astonishing how wrong you are at how the economy works.
Get a dictionary Eric.
It doesn't matter what the administration says, or "what most people believe".
We are in a recession.
Men are men.
Women are women.
The earth is not flat.
Get a dictionary Eric.
You mean Merriam-Webster?
I believe they now go by Modern Wokish given their real time definition revisions to suit the activist narrativesm
Words drift in their meaning all the time.
Woman for the last 40 years has moved to including people who are outwardly feminine just as Conservative has not become synonymous with Fascist.
Words should not drift into a meaning that is factually incorrect, and here you are justifying it. It doesn't make you any less objectively wrong. A woman is a woman, and conservatism is not fascism.
My Merriam Webster dictionary is unwoke. It's also from 1962.
If you have a printed copy from 1962, yes.
If you mean the on-line version, no.
Online from 1962...
There are 4 lights!
Classic ST:TNG reference! Thank you!
After 2 Consecutive Quarters of Negative Economic Growth, Is America in a Recession?
That is the definition. But that assumes that GDP and other yardsticks are accurate measures of the economy. Of that I'm not convinced.
Oh, and this is the cue for JesseAz, ML, and the rest of the trolls to descend like locusts and say I'm a stupid liar for quoting Google a couple days ago.
Q1 was negative you fucking retard. You were completely wrong. Yet you continue to defend yourself from being wrong. Lol.
Jesse you are compleatly wrong
Quarter 1 was negative
Quarter 2 was negative
But when you multiply them together the economy is positive!
It's basic math were all good!
I like the way you think! Trad math is racist, but multiply it by i and you get woke math.
Consider me humbled.
Your statement.
sarcasmic
July.26.2022 at 1:47 pm
Recession is defined as two consecutive quarters with negative growth. GDP is increasing last I checked. It's on life support, but still positive.
That is completely wrong. Gdp was not increasing. How the fuck are you defending it?
Defending? How retarded are you? I repeated what I read. What I repeated was wrong.
Ohhhhhh, you've never been wrong or repeated incorrect information in good faith. You're perfect. That's what this is.
Please link your citation on q1 being positive. Not even WaPo made that claim retard.
What good faith? You were wrong and didn't admit it.
What good faith? You said in that comment 2 negative quarters was a recession and are now changing it to "maybe not" because the media narrative switched.
You were 100% wrong. Even using leftist sources. Notice you won't link which Google source you got information from. Instead you call those correcting you trolls.
So what good faith?
Use Google, retard.
Which source retard? They all say negative.
"2022 q1 growth"
Not one says positive growth.
What the actual fuck? Post what you are claiming came up.
I told you what came up.
Apparently I misread it or what I read was wrong.
At this point an adult would say "Oh. Ok."
But you're not an adult. Far from it.
No. You were wrong. Completely. You repeated it. You keep defending it. You won't post your source. And you call others trolls for correcting you.
Be nice, he’s drunk already.
You don't know what "good faith" means because you don't have any. It is a concept that does not compute in your brain.
You are so fucking delusional. You still are claiming google returned something that doesn't exist. I gave you wapo 2 days ago. But you persist.
How delusional are you?
You're such a child. I got some information wrong. So what. Only a teenage girl would harp on something like that.
It was the central defense of your argument.
Do you know what blame seeking is? You are demonstrating it quite well.
Lol. Sarc rushes to the lefts attempted framing.
Yes. It is a fucking recession. Stop buying the leftist narratives.
The job growth? It isnt growth. It is from the covid recovery. There isn't any large growth since 2019. This data is available to you.
It is a terrible economy with negative growth and high inflation. A continuing decimation to energy exploration from 2019 numbers as well.
Why do people call you a leftist at this point?
You are really great at erecting men of straw and knocking them down.
So much so that I have no reason to say what I actually think. If I do you'll say I'm a liar for contradicting what you say I believe.
Likely because you're a coward who knows I'd kick your ass in any debate where you were forced to be honest.
Party on!
What line is a strawman? How the fuck do you still not know what that is?
And please. Kick my ass. Just once. You've had years to prove that assertion.
It's hard to kick an ass that's running away with a tail firmly tucked between the legs.
Wow. You are drunk as fuck again. I've refuted every point you've made woth correct information.
The delusion you possess is amazing.
The only points you refuted were ones that you made up.
Lol. Wow.
Instead of telling me what I think and how I feel and how I voted and everything else, why not ask?
"Hey sarc, why are no not convinced that GDP is a meaningful measurement? When did you come to this conclusion? Do you have a better idea?"
But that would be honest. That wouldn't be putting words into my mouth. That wouldn't give you strawmen to attack.
I provided your refutation. I even provided your definition from 2 days ago. If I want your argument ill go to cnn. They are wrong too.
I had wrong numbers. It happens. Grow up, child.
It took you two days of calling people trolls over this and you finally admitted it.
God youre tiring.
Hey sarc, why are no not convinced that GDP is a meaningful measurement? When did you come to this conclusion? Do you have a better idea?
I think he is letting the crickets respond.
Yeah sarc, tell us what your reasoning is that GDP is not a good measure. I think he's going to the World Economic Forum website or re-reading modern monetary policy (again) to see if he can get out of this with bullshit he can reference.
GDP is a terrible measure because government spending is counted as an asset.
Sarc wouldn't think of that, though.
Well it would be even worse if you removed government spending.
But I actually agree with you. Have always hated government spending was included.
Sure makes it easy to 'increase' GDP - just increase government spending!
Doesn't look like a recession.
https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp2q22_adv-chart-01.png
Chart reading is another of your specialties I see.
That is the definition.
Then it is.
No the definition is three consecutive quarters.
But the definition is fluid.
It's called the Business cycle, and is an ever-present product of Capitalism.
Maybe in your retarded world but everyone else has agreed that it's two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth for 50+ years. They taught us that 30 years ago when I was an Econ major and that's still what they teach as the practical definition of recession. You can try to redefine it all you want but it's a fucking recession
The Biden economy is great. Don't trust wingnut.com. GDP mattered in 2020 but is irrelevant now. I'm a liberal capitalist so I know what I'm talking about.
#TemporarilyFillingInForButtplug
The global economy is chugging along despite the problems with Russia and it's attempt to sabotage it.
Fifth rate nations like the U.S. can't even control their own economy let alone that of the world.
The world is laughing at RepubliKKKan America.
The damage control is really strong here. First you deny there was any recession, now you blame the Republicans for what Biden's horrible handling of the economy?
You better back up those claims. Get at it, or repent and admit you're wrong.
Fuck off die, boehm.
This is what you campaigned for.
Boehm's benefactor Charles Koch is up $8.55 billion this year. So yes, Boehm is getting exactly what he wanted from the Biden Era. 🙂
#VoteDemocratToHelpCharlesKoch
Well, my net worth is up quite a bit too. But, the "up" is in real estate which is just starting to fade and I expect will continue. Higher mortgage rates put what was already unaffordable even further out of reach for most.
My equities aren't doing so well.
But, I'm no Koch either.
Trump is the chosen one. He will save you.
He would've handled the economy better than Biden did, that's for sure.
America is a fifth rate nation that can't even manage it's own economy.
Pathetic.
Read my reply a bit above, VendicarD. Whether you deny a recession or blame Republicans for what Biden did, you better back up those claims. Get at it or repent and admit you are wrong.
And BTW, other countries are getting hit economically too. Does that make them sixth, seventh or eighth rate nations?
I love how today's modern political discourse is significantly consumed with debating the meaning of words the left has found to be problematic for them.
It depends on what your definition of the word “is” is.
I think history would have to mark that statement by Clinton as the progenitor to all the redefining we find ourselves encompassed by today.
We are watching Newspeak develop in realtime.
I think the positive side is that Newspeak required the powers to be to be competent and consistent.
What we are seeing today is a completely incompetent left stumbling over everything and having to constantly change definitions in order to cover for all of their stumbling.
I think the positive side is that Newspeak required the powers to be to be competent and consistent.
This has always struck me as the flaw in Orwell's vision - it requires a level of competence and coordination that no government has ever displayed. Not that that prevents them from trying.
It definitely is the part that makes Orwell's vision something that will always remain a fiction.
Though you are right, people may try and, in doing so, still end up fucking up a lot of stuff.
It does not take competence to drop a photo into the tube that leads to incinerator or drag a file to the permanent delete folder. It just takes a heart fearful of what happens if you don't. Both the Soviets and the Chinese have managed to change history for billions of people within their dominion. Don't think for a second it can't be done here.
It can't be done in the way the Orwell established. And it really can't be done in the way of China or the Soviets either without massive societal change that would be highly unlikely without huge, and most likely violent, conflict.
I just don't buy into claims of "end of democracy," "end of Republic" hysteria very much.
Please note: Over the past 5-7 decades (according to which viewpoint and/or historian you ascribe to) there have been hundreds of millions of deaths that were admitted to. Not including imprisonments, dis-appearings, relocations, re-educations, or any of the other atrocities that have accompanied these changes. End of democracy, end of Republic, etc. don't mean the end. It means a change from what was to a scary new future.
Did you sleep through 2020?
No, I just don't engage in histrionics and hyperbole like you.
You mean like when reagan re-defined ketchup to be a vegetable, or when George Bush defined hamburger flippers to be part of the U.S. manufacturing sector?
Yup. Totally the same thing. Great and meaningful, not to mention current, examples.
Jesus. Did you pull something trying to stretch that hard for your whataboutism response?
It is post modernism. Why they push so hard for subjective reality over objective.
And they just keep falling on their faces by ignoring reality. It's truly staggering at this point.
Yep! Can't solve the problem when (at least) one side doesn't admit there is one.
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/failure-to-agree-on-reality
Case in point: VendicarD.
Problematic definitions for the left:
Woman
Gain-of-function
Vaccine
Riot "mostly peaceful protest"
Recession
Problematic definitions for the left:
fish -> bee
yea, I had to laugh at it until I remembered it was true.
Problematic definitions for the Kooky Right:
Woman
Gain-of-function
Vaccine
Riot "mostly peaceful protest"
Recession
The irony in this response is impressive!
Blame lawyers.
Have you ever looked at say, a municipal ordinance? The entire first section is the definitions. And, they're usually so namby pamby that the municipality can just say they are whatever they want them to be.
"public nuisance" and "blight" can be real offenders.
Republicans don't understand words. They spend their days grunting at each other and sniffing their own excrement.
Low IQ's. Inferior.
Wow. Mensa level insults. Not stereotypical at all. How clever you are.
That's rich coming from someone who can't define what a woman is.
Fine. Define "recession" however you want. The important thing is that interest rates need to hit 15% before it'll end. However bad it is now, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Thankfully they just decided to spend 700 million more and increase corporate taxes.
Sorry. Billion.
Everyone knows increased spending stops inflation, (which isn’t happening anymore, and if it is, it’s just spittin tobaccy prices).
I suppose I should have said they "currently" need to hit 15%, because inflation is 10%. They can keep the money printers going and push inflation a bit higher if they want, but in the end, it'll just mean that interest rates need to be higher still. The great thing about the laws of economics is that they can't be repealed, or amended, or flagrantly violated. Just like gravity, they'll get you sooner or later. Every time.
The communists and socialist don't agree. Their economics have different laws. Well, no law really. But, they act surprised at the results.
"interest rates need to hit 15% before it'll end." - Noobdragon
So Sayeth the pontificating know nothing.
All bow to his know nothing greatness.
That's rich coming from someone who once denied recession was happening and then refused to blame Biden when proven wrong.
So what's your solution, you pinhead? Insulting n00bdragon ain't cutting it.
We all know how this is going to turn out. The NBER will go along with the pressure from the Biden administration. They'll declare that a recession started in Q1. They'll just make that declaration in late November or early December. After the midterms. In the meantime, anyone suggesting that we are, in fact, in a recession will be branded a kulak, a hoarder and a wrecker. Nevermind that we're seeing layoffs, phone companies saying their customers can't pay their bills, and corporate revenues taking a beating. Tell you what, how about this? I'll go along with the BS if the progressives (Boehm included) trying to snow me that there's no recession agree to tender their undated letters of resignation to me to be made effective at the point in the future (say, when there's a Republican administration) when they claim that, since there's been two quarters of negative growth, we're in a recession.
Have you seen the data on auto loan delinquencies? They are at record levels.
It's not as significant as the mortgage debacle of 2008. But it isn't insignificant either.
What recession?
You are crying about something that doesn't exist.
But you are so wanting it to exist so that you have something to whine about.
You are that pathetic.
Who's this new D-rate troll? Can we get him some training or something?
You would think he'd put in some effort and earn his .50 but instead he brings this weak shit. Trolling has really fallen off.
Vendicar is a retard that posts here from time to time over the years.
He’s nowhere near as stupid as Joe or shrike.
i'm not seeing it on this post
Actually thought he was going for a Poe's Law post
... an is he (an idiot) or isnt he kind of thing
Take the L, kiddo.
Picture the headlines today if Trump was in office.
If Trump was in office there'd be no free press, just Mussolini-style proclamations!
/Progs
Perfect.
Headline: Trump eats live rat at press conference. Denies it ever happened. Blames the Liberal media for the blood stains on his suit.
I thought it was ketchup on his suit.
I wish there was a political school of thought that promoted government getting out of the way. That government's job in the economy is to enforce property rights, contracts, criminal law, and provide courts to resolve disputes without violence. But otherwise hands off. Maybe they'll get all pompous and say French things like laissez-faire. Maybe they'd celebrate liberty and incorporate the word into the name they give to their ideas.
Nah. What am I thinking. You're a Republican or you're a leftist.
Poor sarc
Well if government doesn't run the economy, how would it work? Some kind of invisible hand, or something?
Sarc, I'm still waiting for you to school me on why GDP is not a good measure for determining a recession...
Oh, it's because the GDP GROWTH could be down to -0.1% or by -99.9%.
If both are considered an equivalent determinant of a "recession" then the term "recession" has no valid meaning
Currently the GDP reduction has been -1.6% and -0.9% which is pretty inconsequential. Potentially a measurement error.
Oh, it's because the GDP GROWTH could be down to -0.1% or by -99.9%. If both are considered an equivalent determinant of a "recession" then the term "recession" has no valid meaning
Negative is negative. Both are considered a determinant. Obviously they are not equivalent if one is considerably higher than the other. Still indicates negative 'growth'. The economy shrank. It is not a good thing.
Currently the GDP reduction has been -1.6% and -0.9% which is pretty inconsequential. Potentially a measurement error.
Inconsequential to whom? Or is it an equivalent level of in-consequence because the negative numbers are smaller than you think they should be to be consequential? Is that the new, accepted definition of recession or should we spin in another direction?
Your logic is flawed. Also nonexistent.
Not a terrible idea... sort of like the Congressional Budget Office but for the Constitutionally appointed powers
a Constitutional Powers Office that scores proposed legislation by how much it wipes its ass on the constitution
it could be a sub-function/department of the Supreme Court
In 1977, Jimmy Carter's secretary of the treasury William Simon called a press conference. Carter, who knew what it was about, forbade Simon to use the word recession.
So Simon told the press that there was going to be a banana.
It's that time again.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1978/12/03/yes-well-have-no-banana/ff66f487-7e1a-4579-a199-5750373405c9/
For reference
Yes we have no banana.
Reality says otherwise.
"Hey man... Nothing that MORE taxes and National Socialism (Nazism) won't fix..", Chuck Shmucker....
Yes, America has to get rid of those NAZI Republicans if it intends to survive as a nation.
The world is laughing.
At you.
Pretty sure National Socialism (Nazism) is the Democrats racket...
But I'm open to examples if you disagree... I'm sure Republican (I call RINO'S) have made their fair share of growth to National Socialism just not nearly as well as leftards do.
previously unseen levels of government spending that overcooked the economy while the COVID-19 pandemic choked supply chains.
The pandemic did nothing of the sort. Policies created by useful idiots, in progressive governments, serving the agenda of the World Economic Forum, choked supply chains and a while lot more. The results of the pandemic are as man-made as the virus that caused the pandemic.
Thankfully someone else remembers that it wasn't the virus that did the economic ruin, but the governments.
Trump did it first.
The 87% Democrat written Cares Act?
Trump! Drink!
True, the virus was prevented from killing millions more Americans.
That would have provided spectacular opportunities in the grave digger and coffin making segment of the American Economy.
Win Win...
"Dear Government... Thee all holy and almighty government (others packing Gun Force)... Please oh very please come SAVE me!!!", every leftard useless excuse of a person who thinks GUNS used against those icky people are going to save them.
Yes. We are in a recession. Also worrying is the Labor Participation Rate which is at 62.2, the lowest in 40 years (not taking in the account the "pandemic period when government's sent everyone home and closed businesses). We are rapidly approaching the point when more people are riding in the wagon than those pulling it. When you reach that point, the wagon comes to a stop. That's scary.
What's ever scarier is that the Biden administration is doing nothing to reverse their policies and put us on a correction course. Instead, they are doubling down. And, Manchin says he is on board with it. At this rate, our country will not last until the election of 2024.
You are right. The office holders (even those in both parties I'm afraid) are still addicted to pushing massively costly legislation. They have not internalized the failure stemming from the money supply increases they used to fund the response in 2020 and 2021. This SHOULD have been an obvious lesson, but it has fallen on office holders addicted to big government and power. They fail us.
Yes the unemployment numbers are meaningless because of worker participation rates. Meanwhile the people with jobs are struggling to keep their heads above water. And we're supposed to be happy that gas has backed off of $5/gallon nationally, despite paying almost double what we were paying last year. And if we complain we should go buy an electric car. We can't even afford a conventional used car but the problem is we won't buy a new electric car, which are in short supply even if we could afford one. Household debt is rising precipitously. Wages are negative when adjusted for inflation. Grocery bills keep rising from one trip to the store to the next. Utilities are going up. But the administration swears we aren't seeing the good news about the economy and it's totes not a recession this time (like inflation is only transitory and Putin's fault anyhow), now celebrate that we are jamming green new deal down your throats.
And if we complain we should go buy an electric car. We can't even afford a conventional used car but the problem is we won't buy a new electric car, which are in short supply even if we could afford one.
A 'let them eat cake' moment if there ever was one. I do so hope that someone ends up getting their head chopped off for saying it.
There hasn't been one let-them-eat-cake moment... there's been a countless string of them.
One word: Ponzi.
One truth: The piper calls his due.
"Also worrying is the Labor Participation Rate which is at 62.2"
If Capitalists want a higher labor participation rate all they need to is pay their workforce higher wages.
Thank you Chairman Vendicar. Higher wages will of course stem the tide of inflation by carrying all of the boats up on the same wave of Marxist prosperity.
UR such a d*mb*ss....
You just as well say; Want to sell your produce? Just raise the price some more... Yeah; That's gonna make it sell... Good grief UR stupid.
About GROWTH - be sure to note what PRECEDED any growth you see! When you drop by 25% what do you need to get back to 100%? 33% growth to do it all at once. Yes. Massive growth followed some bad periods even during the Great Depression, but that did not mean USA was out of the Depression. It was still gripped with the downturn. This focus upon terms of art, and not upon the key success and failure of regular Treasury and Fed operations is unhealthy. In 2020 and 2021 this nation created over six Trillion in new money supply. So now we see, consistent with what I learned in Econ 102, large inflation. And the leaders obfuscate and mislead.
Funny money is just grand. Especially when your a Washington pol and set for life.
Let's have a Gatsby!
Clearly, this recession (if we can call it that) is an unusual one.
Bullshit. It's the same as any other recession, except that unemployment numbers are being hidden because of all the stimulus checks going out. Young people aren't even looking for work and people aren't filing for unemployment at the same rates.
Labor participation is still WAY below where it was in 2019, which was still well below where we were prior to the 2008 housing crash.
Young people haven't been looking for work for years. In many cases, their parents won't let them. They both think it's beneath them.
They assume they should invest their time into getting into the "right college" and then they'll be set for life. No matter the cost. After all, we just forgave a chunk of student debt and are poised to do more.
Funny money!
Summary; Nazism (i.e. National Socialism) will take care of us :)..
Nobody wants to see the result around the corner when GUNS is used as a means of survival...
"It's the same as any other recession"
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in the United States expanded 1.60 percent in the second quarter of 2022 over the same quarter of the previous year. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis...
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth-annual
Might mean something if GDP figures weren't including government WASTE and based on Fiat-USDs.... Maybe you should be asking your sheeple-ignorant mind if your propaganda is really what it says it is then why is there so much demand on produce that prices are inflating???? After all aren't you saying producing is double what it use to be?
UR ignorance knows no boundaries.
It's amazing- we're watching our lives be diminished and put at risk by the ruling class, as it happens, with predictable results. It's not like we don't know what's going to happen, that things are going to get worse.
And we just watch, like it's a TV show happening to others.
Well we can violently overthrow the government or peacefully convince people to vote libertarian, but you deny the second choice so we end at an action impasse because our most impassioned people like yourself refuse to believe they can peacefully fix this.
You've had 50 fucking years of absolutely no effect.
Psychotic totalitarians don't just stop all of a sudden of their own volition when they're in power across all major institutions.
But sure, keep the faith in voting your way out of endemic corruption and malevolent totalitarianism.
"It's amazing- we're watching our lives be diminished" - Nardz
That's what 50 years of voting RepubliKKKan will do.
The world is laughing at you American Losers.
Your life has no value, faggot.
Yet somehow EVERY F'EN economical collapse was under Democratic majority in the Executive and Congress...
UR as dumb as dumb gets.
May I ask who is in charge of the executive and legislative branches? Point to us where precisely Republicans were responsible for the recession. Either do that, or admit you're wrong.
But knowing you, you seem incapable of repentance.
Why on Earth would any respectable journalist care what the "people" think about whether we are in a recession or not? The people will think whatever the media tells them. Even in a bad recession the vast majority of people are unaffected. It's the people who are laid off or young adults that are affected. For most people they carry on with their jobs and see no dent in their lifestyle. It's only when the news yells about a recession that it becomes a belief. Why are journalists so ignorant about how the world works?
That is an odd take. Certainly contrary to a lot of people's lived experiences. No, recessions hit everyone, rather you admit it or not. Depressed wages, job security, buying power, retirement accounts, property values, etc. No, most people don't go on living, it worries them while they may be thankful to have a job, it creates stress in their lives. This is almost as bad a take as if you have trouble affording gas, buy an electric car. Really a stupid take, sorry.
No it isn't an odd take, all jobs shelled out raises to existing positions while newer positions went higher. Then the existing people combined so they get another raise which really covers the inflation and everyone who is new ends up lower in buying power than they were, but everyone suffers an opportunity cost. The newer people get a higher number but less buying power. The existing people get two raises and stay where they were with their standard of living in place, but with new opportunities denied which usually only economically literate people like libertarians or fiscal conservatives notice. Congratulations you are one of those but still don't understand how the people who keep messing it up for everyone are seeing things. Which is like the previous comment and correct.
Uhm, reread herc's post and mine. And then rethink your post. Herc stated most people aren't effected by recessions. I stated that was wrong and a weird take. Nothing you posted disputes my point, in fact it reinforces my point. Congratulations, you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.
Spending power went down even with the raises...
Well, generally, people don't think at all. Not past their immediate desires.
That's the world we live in.
"Even in a bad recession the vast majority of people are unaffected."
LOL! Said the Kloog who has never been through a recession.
The world is laughing at you American Retards.
Tell that to the Americans affected by the recession. And other nations that are hurt economically. Those numbers are not a few.
And how would you know Heraclitus never went through a recession? We literally had one during the late 2000's. Do you really think he's under 14 years of age?
Your anti-Americanism has been noted and reported. Don't come begging at us when you inevitably are affected by Biden's horrible economic policies.
It seems that the actual definition of a recession is 2 consecutive quarters of negative growth and a Republican in the white house.
touché
When a Republican is in the White House it's more like 18 months.
Your obtuseness has to be purposeful.
Recession of the unvaccinated.
Came for the comments.
Funny, democrats are on record the last 2 years saying a recession is 2 quarters of negative growth. Guess Mexico isn't in one either.
Boehm like others kept saying jobs are being created. Mayne some but most of them are recovery from Covid shutdowns. It's not keeping up with population growth.
Reason you used to be great. TDS really messed you up. Biden lies so much who can keep track anymore
He's not lying. He is demented. Have a heart.
He is a puppet shell for the liars that feed him lines.
^this!!^
If negative GDP growth isn't coupled with job losses, decreasing wages, and other indicators of a genuine economy-wide slowdown, it's not a recession according to the NBER.
FOX News undoubtedly grabbed the British definition or whatever and ran with it to whine about how unfair it is that the media isn't shitting on Joe Biden just this moment. I know when FOX News does something because all conservatives on the internet all say exactly the same thing at exactly the same time.
There are job losses now and looking forward. Wages have been shrinking. And, inflation will shrink them more as far as buying power.
Wages have been growing at the fastest rate in decades. That's to be expected by normal economics if we are experiencing economy-wide inflation. Unemployment is less than 4%.
There are always winners and losers in an economy. If there was any possibility that you cared about anything other than finding something to shit on Joe Biden for, I'd continue the conversation. We could start by talking about how much of a role the president has in global economic conditions.
"Wages have been growing at the fastest rate in decades"
And they have been outpaced, by far, by the fastest rising inflation in decades, since Carter.
Dont bring your talking points here junior, the people here know the trash you will spew ahead of time and have the knowledge to easily refute it.
Best take this garbage to the WaPo message board, itll be better received by the low watt bulbs there
the fastest rising inflation in decades, since Carter.
And tragically, there's no Paul Volcker in sight to slap a lid on it.
We're all going to be billionaires, and it's gonna suck.
-jcr
Yes, prices have been rising faster than wages. Are you surprised by this or what?
So why downplay our economic turmoil by bringing up wages without bringing up inflation? That's dishonest of you.
And the worst worker participation rate, which means that 4% unemployment is actually double or more. So 8-10%.
If you want to revamp how we talk about the health of the economy, I'm more than game.
Let's stop talking about quarterly growth and start talking about whether children have access to basic needs.
What "basic needs"? Stuff that Biden's economic policies make much harder for citizens to get? Then let's actually talk about quarterly growth.
Disgusting for you to downplay the recession. Lose your dishonesty.
Oh, and in regards to your post here:
https://reason.com/2022/05/27/by-airing-ricky-gervais-controversial-standup-netflix-chooses-actual-entertainment-over-woke-pandering/
I consider Ricky Gervais to be a bigot filled with anti-Christian, antisemitic and Islamophobic sentiment in him. A bigot who can be entertaining, but a bigot nonetheless. I and plenty of others have a right to call him out using our 1st Amendment rights like he does when he displays his prejudice. Yet the government should do nothing about it, for it has no right to silence him or otherwise prevent him from practicing his 1st Amendment rights. This is also true of those who follow woke ideologies.
Unless Gervais violates the NAP, he can continue doing what he does, and we will continue to call him out (and others can continue to support him). That is a mark of a free country. You and Joe Friday should learn that.
I didn't shit on Biden. Just pointed out the obvious with a twist of fun.
But, we probably agree about the POTUS: Any incumbent has little impact on national or global economic conditions.
But, don't tell the press or the proletariat that. They all believe our economy isn't a sum of billions of daily transactions between individuals, but something that the POTUS is in control of like the Wizard of Oz.
Did Fox News make you a moron, or was that just bad genetics?
When I want news, I read it.
Well you clearly haven't followed any news, only fake news.
He's simply stupid; too stupid to understand how stupid he is.
Funny that at the same time:
The MSM at large has had to try and gymnastic spin this thing so that they can say 'well what is a recession anyways?!'
You and the other normal braindead leftists show up to parrot the 'guys its really not a REAL recession' talking points for them.
Hilariously, no one here gives a fuck about Fox but CNN/MSNBC have your brain purchased and regularly rent it out to a 20 year old, purple haired, 80 IQ partisan hack.
Like a good little lemming, you follow right along and say all the words the masters told you to say. Enjoy your monkeypox
Job losses are a trailing indicator. Look at the amount of household debt, highest in decades, real wage growth, negative, consumer confidence, abysmal, retail sales, slumping into negative territory, stocks, bear territory and continuing to slump, housing, slumping, auto sales, slumping, the bad news economically is rampant. Put all together the economy is receding and has been since last fall. You can try to spin it, call it misinformation, but that worked out well for Louis XVI, and I expect it will work out just as well for you, Baghdad Bob.
The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in the United States expanded 1.60 percent in the second quarter of 2022 over the same quarter of the previous year. source: U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth-annual
Were those cherries ripe when you picked them?
Why doesn't Biden just issue a "Don't say it's a Recession" executive order?
#DontSayRecession
that would be a great article for the Babylon Bee
I honestly can do nothing but laugh when Trump gets re-elected because left wingers let their TDS get so bad they are even less able to parse reality than usual (which was already terrible, and declining).
I hate to vote on owning the libs, but honestly they deserve it at this point
If Americans elect Trump that will be hilarious. Putin's biggest win ever.
if you dont have reasonable expectation for your posts to be taken at face value i'm wondering what you think makes it worth posting something like this.... perhaps humor? sarcasm detector calibration? what?
What value are you adding here, ... or did you just eat a ton of Indian take-out?
Trump was making actual diplomacy with Putin, which is why he didn't invade Ukraine then. Biden failed at that and more.
Yes we are in a recession. What is surprising to me is that the contraction is only 0.9%. I'll be interested to see the coming revisions as I suspect that the contraction is worse than currently reported.
I'm sure dementia-man supporters will view this as a great Biden achievement.
Oh and by the way, "LET'S GO BRANDON!".
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth-annual
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/gdp-growth-annual
The denial is sad. See above as to why your observation is wrong. There's no sugarcoating it, VendicarD; we are in a recession.
I was with you until you tossed that bogus 3.6% unemployment rate that completely ignores the number of workers who have left the job market. Whether due to vaccine status, the threat of Covid, the inability to find full time work, or just the difficulty of getting back to work after having been idle for the past two years, we have the largest number of people who have voluntarily left the job market in history, and these folks are not being counted in the unemployment statistic you cited. Walk down any street in America and just look at the Help Wanted signs...do you really think these are new job openings? Of course not! This is the best indication that people who used to hold those jobs no longer are interested in working. Clearly, the unemployment is much, much higher that the oft quoted 3.6%.
How much fun would it be, if in October the NBER announces we are in a recession and the Commerce Department puts out a positive GDP growth figure?