A California Bill Wants To Punish Social Media Companies for 'Addicting' Children
The bill makes little note of parents' ability to control their own children's social media access.
A bill working its way through the California Senate would prohibit large social media platforms from using "a design, feature, or affordance that the platform knew, or which by the exercise of reasonable care should have known, causes child users to become addicted to the platform." The Social Media Platform Duty to Children Act has cleared the California Assembly, been amended in the Senate, and referred to the Appropriations Committee.
While the bill seems to address many of the concerns raised about teenagers and social media use, the bill erases the role of parents in determining what their kids can see and do online.
The bill also establishes unclear rules and definitions seemingly meant to turn social media platforms into cash cows for prosecutors. If found to be violating the law, social media companies can face a civil penalty of up to $250,000 for each violation of a ban on "addicting" features. Companies can be prosecuted directly by the "Attorney General or by a district attorney, county counsel, or city attorney."
It is now conventional wisdom that spending too much time on social media can be bad for kids. Social psychologist Jonathan Haidt argued in a 2021 Atlantic article that social media use is to blame for the increase in depression among adolescent girls. Haidt wrote that "From 2010 to 2014, rates of hospital admission for self-harm did not increase at all for women in their early 20s, or for boys or young men, but they doubled for girls ages 10 to 14."
However, whether social media is a symptom or a root cause of mood disorders for some teenagers is not settled science, writes Grayce Burns, a technology policy analyst with the Reason Foundation (the nonprofit that publishes this website). In June, she observed that conflicting studies about whether social media addiction is an actual addiction suggest that our collective anxiety about social media echoes past social panics about new technology.
"When the printing press made reading accessible to the public, some individuals, the most prominent being famous British writer Vicesimus Knox, began to identify and condemn 'reading mania' in the late 1700s," Burns wrote. "Like social media addiction today, 'telephone addiction' also had a formal definition and criteria that included being unable to be away from a phone for more than three hours without suffering 'anxiety tremors.'"
California's law has problems that extend from its shaky premise. It prohibits companies from including so-called addicting features but fails to list specific features and to state whether they must be addicting in isolation or in combination with other features or specific kinds of content. Rather than do the hard (if not impossible) work of writing specific regulations for what legislators claim is a real and specific problem, they want to hold social media platforms liable for any feature these companies "knew, or which by the exercise of reasonable care should have known" would cause child addiction.
What would happen if prosecutors decide that mere use of a social media platform leads to addiction in some percentage of children? Or if the content, and not app features, are the addicting draw? The way the bill is written currently, the answers to these questions are unclear.
"It doesn't make sense to identify the feature when it's the content underlying it that may cause the problem," Dylan Hoffman, a TechNet executive, told the Associated Press. He added that there "is a lot of innovation in this space to make sure that parents and kids are able to better control their social media usage."
With this bill, California is treating a parenting problem with a government regulation solution.
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Parents need to parent.
I know a couple who doesn't let their 16 year old son have a cellphone much less use social media.
He's a happy kid.
That's cool. And I know a kid whose parents let him do all that; nevertheless he sings solo in choir, chairs the high school debate team, and is the baseball team's star pitcher. I guess "your mileage may vary."
yep that's why i say parents need to parent.
if you, as a parent, think social media is harmful for teens, then you, as the parent, need to act accordingly.
So many harmful laws are in place because some group of parents thought "I woulnd't like to raise my kids that way so I better have the state enforce it"
Alcohol laws are another one.
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Almost the entirety of non-libertarian governance is the deep down conceit that you know the best choices to make for people you've never met, and otherwise know nothing about.
" parents need to parent."
My wife and I have good kids. I used to think it's because we were doing a good job. Now, having watched many other people we know raise their kids I have come to see that fortune matters most.
Not to say that telling officious government busybodies to stay the fuck out isn't good parenting. Because it is.
>>What would happen if prosecutors decide that mere use of a social media platform leads to addiction in some percentage of children?
why do prosecutors decide medical diagnoses and statistics?
Because they can.
Seriously. Government enables all this shit. Government is the root cause.
yes yes go, State! I hate those fuckers.
Prosecutors don't decide by themselves, juries ultimately make the call.
Unfortunately, California juries are often dirt-dumb and looking for any excuse to take the side of the "little guy" if the other side of a case is a "corporation"; especially in the major cities. When those decisions fit the desired narriative, the MSM is quick to run with any verdict from LA or SF as being conclusive in terms of "the science", as in the case with the link between RoundUp and cancer.
LOL @ California.
whenever you think to yourself "What is the stupidest possible way for my society or government to do X?" Just go look at how Californians do it.
And sadly it often means "Shit my state will be doing in 5 years."
It is the biggest argument I can think of to never, ever vote for one party rule.
Gridlock or compromise, I don't care. Either one is better than the partisan yes men approving whatever trendy horseshit comes down the party pipe. Gotta convince someone other than the choir that the sermon deserves an amen.
Every once in a while, WA or OR will get out into the lead in that regard, but anywhere that's degenerated into a one-party system will be a factory for some version of counter-productive ideological governance.
Yet more proof that the political spectrum is more like a circle:
Left-wing California politicians: let's ban addicting features of social media!
Right-wing Missouri politician: let's ban addicting features of social media!
https://www.cnet.com/news/politics/bill-wants-to-ban-infinite-scroll-autoplay-to-curb-your-social-media-addiction/
Are you kidding me?
Killing infinite scrolling would be awesome.
not the proper role of the state to ban infinite scrolling
Why do you feel the need to talk to prepubescent children about romantic love and/or mating, collectivistjeff?
How dare you mock a bill sponsored by a US Senator that starts with the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the Truth Social:
'....To prohibit social media companies from using practices that exploit human psychology or brain physiology to substantially impede freedom of choice, to require social media companies to take measures to mitigate the risks of internet addiction and psychological exploitation, and for other purposes....'
Ugh, a rare miss from California. 🙁
In fact, social media is wonderful for children. Before social media, elective double mastectomies for the under-18 crowd were virtually unheard of. But now with Facebook and Twitter and TikTok helping kids realize they're nonbinary and / or transgender, top surgery is increasingly common.
I would actually support policies that help kids spend even more time on social media. For instance, government-supplied phones and laptops.
#LibertariansForAmputatingHealthyBodyPartsFromChildren
Before social media, elective double mastectomies for the under-18 crowd were virtually unheard of. But now with Facebook and Twitter and TikTok helping kids realize they're nonbinary and / or transgender, top surgery is increasingly common.
Don't forget! With unprecedented levels of social acceptance and support and even access to medical care, just as many, if not more LGBTQ community members experience depression and/or achieve their goals of suicidal ideation!
#FreeShitForFeelzLibertarians
https://twitter.com/MaryMargOlohan/status/1549155010663141377?t=b9VGnKC6FECTGL58KfrAWA&s=19
U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia "cannot move forward with misdemeanor charges of unlawful entry against" members of Stephen Colbert's staff and crew arrested June 16, saying they were "never asked to leave by the staffers who invited them."
[Link]
Shooting someone in the face is a way of asking them to leave.
Next up: Panda Express must put warning labels on Orange Chicken
I will only support this if AGs promise to wave charges against social media companies that help "disadvantaged" people go out and coordinate their "reparation" retrival
Or just outlaw cell phones for anyone under 21.
They can't base it on the content because of state and federal constitutional free speech provisions. And how could anything be made attractive to adults without also attracting children?
If "addictive content" or infinite scrolling or what-have-you really is a problem for kids, then there is an easy solution here: an enterprising app developer will write an app that gives parents something closer to the online experience that they want for their kids. Parents might even be willing to spend money on this app. And if this app really does lead to better outcomes, it will only grow in popularity and reputation. There is money to be made, so all that is needed is to write the app. No coercion is required.
While I agree that this is the appropriate response, it is not as simple as this when you are talking about teenagers. It is trivial for kids to jailbreak their phone. Because while there is a large market for parents who want to curate and micromanage their kids' online experience, there is an even larger market for kids who want to avoid that.
This is what builds the culture of regulation- parents who want to keep their kids from "corrupting" influences cannot win here. If they have a phone, they will get porn, social media, online harassment and sexting. You cannot stop it unless you personally restrict these kids in ways that 90% of their peers are not regulated. Rather than do the hard work of trying to prepare kids to resist these influences, and accepting that sometimes even the best preparations do not work, parents want government to fix their problems for them.
"Rather than do the hard work of trying to prepare kids to resist these influences, and accepting that sometimes even the best preparations do not work, parents want government to fix their problems for them."
Aren't parents, being human beings, just as susceptible to these influences as their children are? What is the difference between a child and an adult? It's the ability to think rationally, abstractly and defer gratification, essentially. But addiction levels out that difference. It seems to me that you and the author of the article overestimate the ability of parents to counter the negative aspects of the new technology. One thing parents can do is to not allow their children a smart phone or a computer. Apparently this is not uncommon among parents in the tech business. But generally, I don't know if it's a practical solution. Children and interact socially over their phones and removing their phones would curtail their social lives.
" But addiction levels out that difference."
No it doesn't, and the world is full of people who rationally use addictive substances every day without problems, and people who cannot help themselves, and people who have since recovered from that state.
There is no proof that Social Media is addictive- any moreso than TV or Radio or Sex. But as with any vice, some people will do better than others- even kids who had lots of help from there parents might succumb. That doesn't make this a government problem, since very obviously the government isn't actually proven to be able to limit addiction to anything.
"There is no proof that Social Media is addictive- any moreso than TV or Radio or Sex. But as with any vice..."
Maybe there's no proof that social media is addictive but you're saying instead it's a vice which parents must work hard to give their children the ability to resist. It seems you are just quibbling here. Let's say it's not addictive, but a vice instead. This doesn't change the points I raised. Nothing makes parents immune from the vice. Adults are quite capable of falling into gambling, alcoholism and other vices. Parents use their smart phones just as obsessively as children do.
"That doesn't make this a government problem"
I agree but I don't see anyone claiming it is a government problem. The article makes it clear it's a problem for young people whose troubles with suicide and self harm rose dramatically since 2010, coinciding with the debut of social media and smart phones. Clearly it's a problem for young people and their families rather than the government.
"The bill makes little note of parents' ability to control their own children's social media access."
If they did, they might have to admit that parents have at least as much rightful authority over their kids as the state.
Plus, suggesting the people have responsibility for stuff is anti-progressive.
Yep, this is the "nanny state" that democrats want. No choices to make, no personal responsibility and blame everyone else for your own decisions. This panacea is the democrats race to the lowest common denominator.
Why do you feel the need to talk to prepubescent children about romantic love and/or mating, collectivistjeff?
Well, that came out of nowhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleeping_Beauty_(1959_film)
I don't think this fairy tale is particularly objectionable for kids. Do you?
Do you think it is "grooming" to show Sleeping Beauty to kids? After all, at the end, Prince Philip and Princess Aurora kiss. Is that "graphic sex" that should be hidden from view?
Why do you want teachers talking about love and or mating with 6 year olds, groomer?
Love is a very natural emotion. Even 6-year-olds can understand the concept of love. They probably do not understand all of the different nuances of love, e.g. romantic love vs. brotherly love, of course. So teachers might talk about love for the same reason they might talk about other emotions like joy or sadness or anger. It is also a prominent feature in many children's stories and fairy tales. So it's not like you can hide the concept from children.
Nardz is right. School is not the place for that. Better to learn about it the way Nardz did by listening to your parents fuck and watching male dogs fuck under a trampoline in the backyard.
I know, right?
When people claim that they don't want teachers discussing controversial issues in the classroom, I always respond "well, where do you want kids to learn about these controversial issues? Their peers? Social media? The Internet? Do you think THAT would be better?"
First, just to clarify: No sane person, including myself, supports teaching young kids about graphic sexual concepts. It is not appropriate at that age level. If a teacher were to do this, then yes I would say that that teacher might rightly be considered 'grooming' and that teacher should certainly at a minimum be fired.
The question is not about whether teachers should have 'graphic sex talk' with kids. No one here agrees with teaching young kids about graphic sex. The question is, and has always been, about discussion with young kids about sexual orientation and gender identity that is NOT 'graphic sex talk'.
And my position is and always has been that I don't think there is anything wrong with telling kids, in an age-appropriate manner, that sometimes two men or two women can fall in love, just like sometimes a man and a woman can fall in love, at the level of fairy tales and children's stories. No talking about sex acts. No talking about blowjobs. No talking about sexual intercourse. No talking about 'mating'. All those would be wrong. Simply showing kids that two men or two women falling in love is not filthy, degenerate, perverted, none of that, it is normal *for them*, just like when a heterosexual man and woman fall in love, it is normal *for them*.
Now let me ask you a question or two.
Earlier today you said that you thought homosexuality was abnormal:
https://reason.com/2022/07/18/republicans-seek-child-support-payments-for-fetuses/?comments=true#comment-9604146
Homosexuality is abnormal. Using the abnormal as a reference point, especially when trying to INSTRUCT that the abnormal is not abnormal, is grooming children for a delusional perspective that will then be used to direct interpretation of normal hormonal and psychological development toward the abnormal.
1. So, what *precisely* in your view is "normal"? One man, one woman, strictly monogamous heterosexual sex only? Is sodomy in a heterosexual relationship "normal"? How about oral sex? How about group sex? How about 'open relationships'? How about polygamy? Who decides? Maybe there is not one single universal standard for 'normal'.
2. Is it the proper place of the school to teach kids that there is one and only one sexual relationship that is THE normative standard and all others are 'abnormal'? Should teachers teach children, either explicitly or implicitly, to cast moral judgment against abnormal sexual relationships as perverted and degenerate?
3. I presume at this point you have thrown away silly notions like local control as a principle when it comes to public schools. If the school board in, say, San Francisco, or Austin, or Madison, wants their kids to learn that there's nothing wrong or sinful or degenerate about LGBTQ relationships, what will you do to attempt to enforce your view of the proper curriculum onto these school boards?
4. Do you think homosexuality is a choice, or do you believe some people are just born that way? If you think it is a choice, why do you think it is the proper place of the schools to try to stop people from making that choice if that is what they wish? If you think some people are born gay, what do you think teaching kids that the 'gay lifestyle' is abnormal will do to kids who are gay? Do you think some might internalize the notion that they themselves are 'defective' for having thoughts that their teacher says are immoral and perverted?
So, Nardz, are you going to answer these questions?
Or do you just want to hurl insults at me?
Grooming has always been considered a tool, generally meaning the gradual easing in of a person to certain behavior. There was even a time when it was a morally neutral statement. At my last job, we regularly discussed "Grooming our successor", which literally meant putting them in the situations where they became more familiar and comfortable operating in our role, so that when we move on, those people can quickly transition. The idea is that going from their current (often more junior) role to a new role would be too much of a shock, so instead you ease them into it.
Grooming has since taken on a negative connotation, but it remains the same basic definition- getting people more comfortable with an otherwise jarring situation. Sexual grooming is getting someone ready for sexual abuse. But you can also groom someone for other abuse, like indoctrination. See, for example, its use in this article about the "Cult like grooming" at CIIS.
https://archive.ph/h8CxF
Everything that these people are doing to push kids to become social justice warriors, marxists, and gender-confused is exactly the type of techniques that we are warned against when training to look for sexual abusers. The fact that sexual abuse may not be their ultimate goal doesn't change the fact that it is grooming.
"Sexual grooming is getting someone ready for sexual abuse. "
And in fact, even in cases of sexual grooming, even abusers groom people for different reasons. They groom their target for abuse, yes. But it is also referred to as "grooming" when they ease parents into being comfortable leaving the kid in their care. It is also called "grooming" when they ease a community into giving them more opportunities to abuse.
So grooming has never solely meant preparing someone for sexual abuse. It has always represented using techniques to build trust and comfort in behavior that a person would have otherwise rejected. Tell my subordinate to take over while I'm gone, and he'd freak out. But not after months of grooming. Tell a parent to let you take their kid on an overnight campout alone in the mountains? They'd say no- until you've groomed them for months. Tell a community to let you lead a campout of young kids without other adults? They would generally say no, until you have groomed them for months.
Overt, when people like Jesse use the term 'groomer', do you seriously think they mean it in the nuanced way that you have presented it? It is a bad-faith slur to try to associate acceptance of homosexuality with endorsement of pedophilia.
I disagree. These people are attempting to subvert the bond between children and their parents. To radicalize them for genderqueer or marxist ends. They are grooming.
I'm sorry that the techniques these people are using are often associated with sexual abuse. But often people who have bad goals share techniques with other people with equal or worse goals. Both contract killers and drug dealers use money laundering, for example.
Maybe instead of being offended that people confuse them with sexual predators, these people ask themselves why are they are using the techniques of sexual predators to achieve their aims.
Here is the Scouts of UK's article on Grooming:
https://www.scouts.org.uk/volunteers/staying-safe-and-safeguarding/supporting-life-issues-and-young-people/volunteers-responsibilities/definitions-of-abuse/
"Some forms of harm potentially involve a form of grooming:
* Sexual exploitation
* Criminal exploitation (gangs)
* Modern slavery and human trafficking
* Radicalisation"
Hey look- radicalizing kids can be done by grooming. What a shock. I guess the Scouts are a bunch of right wing extremists.
Okay, so based on this, what is the difference between just ordinary teaching, and "grooming"? If a science teacher teaches that the Earth is many billions of years old, and not a few thousand years old as the Young Earth Creationists might claim, is that science teacher offering proper instruction, or "grooming"? The Young Earth Creationist parents might claim "that teacher is grooming kids to accept a life of blasphemy and atheism!" Are they right? Should the teacher stop "grooming" kids when it comes to the age of the Earth?
Are you still claiming you aren't defending grooming with this response?
If they need to groom a child in order to teach them the age of the earth, then, yeah they are groomers. These include practices like lying to parents about their actual goals (as teachers have done with "Rainbow Clubs" that actually encourage kids to question their gender). Getting the kids to selectively push moral boundaries (Such as the teaching materials I have shared before that lie about biology- saying things like Red Kangaroo males have pouches, or teaching kids to ridicule kids with different beliefs about gender). Encouraging the kids to avoid their parents for guidance (such as the books I have shared that suggest kids go searching for transgendered topics online before talking to parents).
Now most people would say that you don't need to groom children in order to impart geological information. So, as you would expect, teachers who want to teach this information don't tend to be grooming.
Overt, see, you are making a good-faith effort to distinguish between legitimate teaching, and so-called "grooming", and I appreciate that. I agree with you that in general, teachers lying to parents or trying to conceal things from parents is improper and shouldn't happen. I'm not going to call it "grooming" because that validates the highly offensive slur. It is simply unprofessional conduct on the part of the teacher. But it would still be unprofessional conduct if the deception had nothing to do with LGBTQ issues either.
Now, contrast that with Nardz' statement from above:
Homosexuality is abnormal. Using the abnormal as a reference point, especially when trying to INSTRUCT that the abnormal is not abnormal, is grooming children for a delusional perspective that will then be used to direct interpretation of normal hormonal and psychological development toward the abnormal.
Here he makes no reference to lying or deception. He states quite flatly that he believes it is "grooming" to teach kids that homosexuality is not "abnormal" even if teachers are not secretive about their curriculum. Will you agree that based on your standard of "grooming", what Nardz is referring to is not, in fact, "grooming"? And can you possibly appreciate the fact that when people like me are confronted with Nardz's definition of "grooming", that it is little more than a bad-faith attempt to try to associate homosexuality with pedophilia?
"I'm not going to call it "grooming" because that validates the highly offensive slur."
But it isn't a slur, and you should actually stop calling it so. It is literally grooming. The intent of the groomers is to subversively make targets more likely to accept some radical behavior while isolating them from cultural baselines that would caution against that behavior. Grooming is grooming. Just as laundering money is laundering money, regardless of whether or not it carries the stigma of drug use with it.
"Now, contrast that with Nardz' statement from above:"
No thank you. For some reason you are obsessed with what your ideological "others" are thinking. You are always here trying to bait people into defending the intentions of others- often the most uncharitable of imputed intentions. Whether Nardz is a gay bashing asshole or not doesn't change whether these teachers are grooming.
I'm not asking you to defend Nardz's statement. I am asking you to try to understand where *I* am coming from. I don't think that is too much to ask.
If you were presented Nardz's statement above as the definition of "grooming", what might you reasonably conclude?
If you were presented Nardz's statement above as the definition of "grooming", what might you reasonably conclude?
That calling you a homosexual pedophile is a slander to homosexual pedophiles.
Okay, so based on this, what is the difference between just ordinary teaching, and "grooming"?
What's the difference between an officer writing you a ticket for an offense and threatening to write you a ticket unless you provide... favors? You're free to refuse and get the same ticket either way so, no harm no foul, right? I mean, if teacher can have even oblique sexual discussions with pre-teen minors, then surely cops can have obliquely or even openly sexual discussions with consensual adults, right?
I mean, that's the goal here right? Even if it's not sexual, you want to give teachers more authority over the kid's lives and without parents' knowledge or consent. Despite all the widely apparent and abundant facts about school spending, parent involvement, student achievement. I mean, it makes perfect sense that someone identifying as a radical individualist would turn out to have no principles and a dim awareness of a narrow reality and turn out to be yet another pro-authoritarian, cop-sucker. I really thought you'd do better. My fault for being too optimistic.
Comparing sleeping beauty with a book w graphic illustrations of minor on adult blow jobs is in fact defending grooming.
Gender Queer is not a book for young kids. The author says so, the publisher says so, everyone says so. So no I am not comparing Sleeping Beauty with Gender Queer.
A better example might be, say, the book Heather Has Two Mommies. Do you think that book is inappropriate for young kids? If so why?
If a kindergartners asked a teacher how babies are made, he or she isn't going to find some age appropriate response. When I was in grade school it was common for teachers to tell us that these subjects would be covered in more advanced grades.
K-3 education isn't like a salon where consenting adults are willing to discuss ideas. This is where you teach very young minds the very basics of morality, math, language skills, etc. It is ENTIRELY appropriate for certain subjects not to be covered extensively at that level, especially since parents want to be involved in the formative years of their children.
I was a teacher at a private elementary school. Should I have casually mentioned in a math class that men can fall in love with men? Some adults are attracted to minors? Or that eating pork does not violate secular or natural law? Even if such topics aren't included in the curriculum? How would Jewish or Muslim parents feel about that? What if the child objects, saying "But my parents say that's not right"?
The MINUTE the teacher takes a certain stance that challenges the child's worldview, he or she will feel isolated or challenged. It doesn't matter if the teacher says "I respect all opinions". This is how a children's mind works. They're loyal to their parents and want to please adults.
The values you teach young children in terms of human relationship is "you have to treat others with respect despite differences". Aesop's tales, Hans Anderson stories, etc etc. They can discuss more nuanced concepts as they grow older and have a better understanding of the world around them.
There's nothing wrong with this. No one except "groomer" and maybe people like you feel the need to jump start complex and possibly divisive topics as early as possible. I'm Asian and I'm bothered in the slightest that American schools do a piss poor job teaching kids about Asian cultures, even though are way more Asians than gays. If high schools won't cover things like Manzanar, yeah I'd be concerned. But at the earliest education level, that's not what's important.
A side point: I don't think we should be blaming the entire government of California for a bill that one state legislator has proposed and that may never pass.