Charging a Bodega Worker Who Stabbed His Attacker Isn't Criminal Justice Reform
The case of Jose Alba reminds us that progressive prosecutors don't always apply their principles when they're inconvenient.

A 61-year-old New York City bodega worker recently found himself on Rikers Island—one of the most notorious jails in the U.S., known for its pervasive violence and its drumbeat of death.
The man's alleged crime: defending himself against an irate customer who had attacked him behind the cashier's counter.
Around 11 p.m. on July 1, 35-year-old Austin Simon entered the convenience store to confront the clerk, Jose Alba, after Simon's partner's payment declined to go through for a bag of chips. Simon then came around the counter to Alba's workstation, at which point he shoved him, hovered over him, and appeared to try to drag him out from behind the cash register. As the latter took place, security footage shows Alba grabbing a knife and stabbing Simon, who was out on parole after assaulting a police officer. Simon later died from his injuries.
Alba has since been charged with second-degree murder and criminal possession of a weapon.
Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg ran on a platform centered around criminal justice reform and ending mass incarceration. A self-described progressive prosecutor, he says he has "a lifetime of experience fighting for justice, equality and fairness." It appears that ethos may have been temporarily suspended in this less politically expedient case.
Consider that one of the core prongs of Bragg's roadmap for D.A. is "reforming pretrial detention"—the notion that how much money a defendant has should not keep him languishing behind bars before he has a chance to prove his innocence. And yet Bragg's office initially sought a $500,000 bond for Alba. This would have all but ensured that he stay locked up before trial, despite a very strong chance that a jury will see his actions as self-defense. (He was eventually released on $50,000 bail after prosecutors brokered a deal with Alba's defense attorney requiring that he wear an electronic monitor and surrender his passport.)
Bragg's course may conflict with what he claims are his lodestars. But it should not come as a surprise. Following his election win last year, he elicited some raised eyebrows for his proposed lenience toward certain offenses. Yet a big part of that plan flew under the radar: Bragg simultaneously announced a harsher approach—to white collar crimes. The program was less about the spirit of reform and more about applying that spirit to the right people. But principles don't mean much if they aren't applied consistently.
How does that apply to this case? Left-leaning prosecutors are often suspicious of self-defense claims when the person killed is someone they'd often reflexively sympathize with. Simon was black, poor, and caught up in the criminal justice system. And so now Alba—himself neither white nor well-off—is caught up in the criminal justice system too.
The prosecution has drawn pushback from Mayor Eric Adams, a Democrat, and Councilmember Shawn Abreu (D–Manhattan), who represents the area in question and who said that the evidence "strongly indicate[s] self-defense." It has also attracted the ire of a bipartisan coalition of local lawmakers. "The fact that you are even prosecuting Mr. Alba reveals how your perverse sense of justice not only protects violent criminals, but actively seeks to destroy the lives of crime victims," wrote Councilmembers Joann Ariola (R–Queens), Joe Borelli (R–Staten Island), David Carr (R–Staten Island), Robert Holden (D–Queens), Vickie Paladino (R–Queens), Inna Vernikov (R–Brooklyn), and Kalman Yeger (D–Brooklyn).
"You are simply rewarding the guilty and punishing the innocent," the letter continues. When you take into account that Bragg's office declined to charge Simon's partner—who took a knife from her purse and proceeded to stab Alba—it appears that, in this case, that's true.
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Alba and his haircut (especially his longish beard) make him look a bit shabby... Like SmegmaLung, with greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes!
Well anyway, maybe the DA's "punishment boner" could be satisfied with a light punishment of this particular shabby offender, with his shabby haircut... Ass punishment, cut OFF his shabby "Alba-Tresses", and hang them around his neck!
"Like SmegmaLung, with greasy fingers smearing shabby clothes!"
Sometimes all you can do is feel like a dead duck, spitting out pieces of your broken luck.
Overt gets it!!! Wooo-Hooo!!!
I don’t know or care anything about what your race is, but I signed up for a reason account specifically to tell you that if you ever steal a bag of chips from me I’m going to stab you
With your steely knife? Humans, OK then, be warned!
But be YOU warned, I have been told that they stabbed it with their steely knives, but they just couldn't kill the beast! And after THAT, you can check OUT, but you can never leave!
She didnt actually steal a bag of chips, she asked if she could open a line of credit. Alba refused, presumably they got into a verbal altercation, and she went to get her boyfriend to "make him apologize to her"
Exactly what a reasonable person would do, right?
He should get a medal, not be facing charges.
And isn't threatening to cut off someone's hair an assault on their culture?
I think Binion nails this. Reform-minded DAs are mostly about political expedience for the "right" people. And 61-year-old Hispanics who work in Bodegas just have to let young black men beat them up if they want to. For equity.
The subheader is wrong, though. I think this is perfectly in line with the prosecutor's principles. Many progressives HATE self-defense. You're not supposed to defend yourself, you're supposed to call the cops, but the cops aren't supposed to come, it's supposed to be social workers who come. But certain people are allowed to be violent, and nobody is allowed to fight back.
The "establishment libertarians" that get official bylines on this site should pull their heads out of their asses and recognize the truth of what you write. The "progressive prosecutor movement" is not about "criminal justice reform" -- it's about racial payback on a long-term basis. Buckle up boys.
Look at Mr. Equity here.
Yes. Only the state can reasonably use force. Even at the point of death, you filth civilians simply can't be trusted with that power. Unlike the state who wold never- you might abuse it.
Democrats will destroy the right to self defense if given a chance. Just like the leftists did in Canada.
Yup. People who defend themselves against one-off assailants might be prone to stand up to government. And we can't have that, right?
What about Australia? They gave up their guns and less than a decade later were being put into camps for not being "vaccinated" against a strain of the common cold.
Duty to retreat.
It just blows my mind.
I’d say the lack of understanding of progressive’s “principles” is one of the leading factors for some of the stupid shit published here.
Agree, most Progs are too dumb to effectively be evil.
In Philadelphia they didn't let convenience stores put up bulletproof glass for the cashiers, because that would be racist.
"I think Binion nails this. Reform-minded DAs are mostly about political expedience for the "right" people. And 61-year-old Hispanics who work in Bodegas just have to let young black men beat them up if they want to. For equity"
This is exactly the criminal justice reform that Reason had been supporting. But it goes beyond equity and race essentialism (though those are components): its about treating violent and/or habitual offenders leniently (like the eventual Waukesha parade killer) while throwing the book at minor transgressors and/or people who defend themselves (like the election protesters or McCloskeys).
The point is to create chaos, insecurity, and arbitrary application.
Billy and Reason got exactly the government they campaigned for and voted for. Now they act like they got blindsided. Sad.
Or what happened to Kyle Rittenhouse.
Yeah what I was gonna say.
More leftists should be Rittenhoused.
It is working. The criminals are being protected by discouraging people to protected themselves.
Aaaaannnnnnd yet Reason has been supporting these same prosecutors even when many of us have pointed out that their view of "criminal justice reform" amounts to little more than weaponizing the law ("don't punish our friends; punish our enemies to the max") against the normal, law-abiding, citizenry. It was never a matter of stopping the nut punches. Just selectively deciding who those nut punches are applied to.
"Aaaaannnnnnd yet Reason has been supporting these same prosecutors..."
Same prosecutors by name? If so, citation please!
Same prosecutors by them being fellow humans who ALSO breathe oxygen?
If so, if the latter... Then let me point THIS out... YOU are JUST like Hitler, in that you both breathed oxygen!
FWIW: The articles from Lancaster and Levin in defense of the SF DA Boudin were pretty bad. Essentially supporting the untrue and fabricated narrative that SF voters had been fooled by police unions into believing that crime was running rampant in their cities. Nancy Rommelmann's article was much better- because she actually bothered to visit the city.
I don't know WTF Soros's game is, but it is not a more libertarian society. And libertarians viewing his accomplishments (like the DAs he boosts into office) without a healthy dose of skepticism have a high likelihood of looking the fool.
Nancy's article was good (I can't re-find it at the moment). There was a LONG non-Reason one by her, I mean.
I did find the below one, and, wow, at a glance it sure doesn't make the reader think that Reason is a fan of open-air hard-drug orgies!
https://reason.com/2022/06/09/delusion-on-san-francisco-crime-will-get-you-recalled/
Delusion on San Francisco Crime Will Get You Recalled
Prosecutorial reform is one thing. Chesa Boudin’s incompetence is another.
NANCY ROMMELMANN | 6.9.2022 10:45 AM
No, as I noted before, Rommelmann's article was quite good. As were her articles about the riots in Portland.
Because she actually went to these places to report on what was going on, rather than summarizing the bluecheck twitter feeds and curated content of cnn and nyt and calling it journalism.
Crime stats are bound to drop when you don't prosecute.... crimes.
Elected officials and police administrators are incentivized to underreport crime. It gives them an aruao of actually doing their jobs.
Hell, in my neighborhood, the police will not respond to residential alarms. Even if you call in a burglary at the time. They have "higher priorities".
And, if you want to report a burglary after the fact, you have to go down to the difficult to access police station and fill out and sign a report.
Ditto for a lot of other cities in the SF Bay Area.
Reason wrote many articles defending the progressive DA that got recalled in San Fran from their ivory towers across the country. Rommel was the only writer that actually did some journalism and talked to people that actually live in San Fran.
Yes Reason Editors, real journalism is more than just getting opinions from Twitter and your daily DNC talking points email.
Your citation fell off!
https://reason.com/2022/06/08/prosecutorial-reform-recall-san-francisco-district-attorney-chesa-boudin/
That's Levin essentially saying that Boudin was tanked by police unions.
https://reason.com/2022/06/08/san-francisco-recalls-progressive-district-attorney-chesa-boudin/
That's Lancaster citing the New York times to say that the SF people are wrong to think crime is a problem in the city.
You don't live in SF, so let me spare you the trouble of trying to defend this nonsense. I travel there regularly for work. You can read my comments in these two articles.
The simple fact is that people in NY, DC and other blue enclaves want anyone outside of SF to think that the most liberal city in the country, if not the world, suddenly got a conservo-boner. Their evidence is pretty, formatted tables in the NYT that say crime isn't that bad.
These tables are wrong. The sole thing they show is that there are fewer retail thefts being reported. This can be explained by the fact that nobody in the retail sector reports retail thefts any more. In levin's article, if you check his sources, this is actually called out in the article. If you care about thefts against private citizens, car theft, assault, and other personal crimes, the SF populace is right to be concerned.
I don't actually think the problem is ideology here at Reason. It is that they had assholes in Texas and DC writing articles about San Francisco. And those people get all their data from blue sources, just as you get your data from Salon and Vox.
Rommelmann actually traveled to SF and saw what the fuck was going on, and she was appalled. Her article actually reported on what was going on, rather than what the twitteratti and NYT said people ought to think.
Thanks Overt!
(PS, if these folks are going to write about cities that they haven't visited, they could at least check some more ideologically diverse sources before regurgitating what they learn second-hand or even more distantly. Call some contacts, network, talk to people who live there? Talk to some peons even, maybe? Or is that entirely too radical, to do such things?)
" they could at least check some more ideologically diverse sources before regurgitating what they learn second-hand or even more distantly."
Right. This was the same problem I had when Reason intern, Mr Bazail-Eimil wrote about the LAPD reaction to riots here in Los Angeles. He didn't do any reporting. He just summed up the highly edited and curated videos he found on twitter. That is not reporting, it is becoming the propagandizing mouthpiece of activists.
On all sides!
A quick search reveals this...
https://reason.com/2022/02/15/police-search-rape-kit-dna-to-see-if-victims-are-also-criminals/
In your twisted mind, is Reason here singing the praises of stupid and-or evil doings of San Fran prosecutors?
"Flooding in Bangladesh killed more than 10,000 people."
Did I just sing praises for floods and the deaths that they cause?
Yes Reason Editors, real journalism is more than just getting opinions from Twitter and your daily DNC talking points email.
Ouch. That's gonna leave a bruise.
They'll walk away with their head held high.
It's not a walk of shame if you can't feel shame, afterall. And most of the "journalists" here are pretty fucking shameless.
Yep. Most don’t read the comments. None of them do any self reflection from the criticism they receive if they do read.
Just this morning there’s another article about book “bans” in schools. It has been pointed out in these comments repeatedly that not having a book as part of school curriculum is not the same as banning books. That’s not opinion, it’s a simple fact based off the actual definition of the word “ban”.
This after an article the other day where they proclaimed that books that were banned sold more copies. But they didn’t sell more copies on some black market for books, it was through completely legal means. How the fuck can something be sold more, legally, if it was banned?
And every time they publish one of these, there are multiple commentators that point out that that’s not what “ban” means. And yet they persist. It’s really quite sad.
I was banned from Mom-Dad's bedroom when they wanted to get it on. I was banned from the driver's seat until I was 16, where I grew up. I was never banned from living in the USA (AKA, I was never exiled).
The book was banned from the classroom, or the library. It was never banned in the USA at large.
SOME of us are intelligent enough, and non-hyper-partisan enough, to understand and accept simple, normal language context. SOME of us just LOVE to pick needless fights for no reason other than hyper-partisan , snobby sneering and supercilious nit-picking!
“I was banned from Mom-Dad's bedroom when they wanted to get it on. I was banned from the driver's seat until I was 16, where I grew up. I was never banned from living in the USA (AKA, I was never exiled).”
Nobody wrote articles about any of this retard. Keep defending propaganda.
Nobody wrote articles thinking that many readers were entirely TOOOOOO stupid to parse the context of what was meant by the use of the word "banned" in a particular context!
Pucky Squirrel wastes time dueling with dimwits. Natasha says Moose stupid, and Squirrel not able to fix. Press Mute Luser button and look away from brilliant flash.
Why are you using a sock Hank?
Was that book "ban" part of the law that made illegal to say gay? Because they sure have no problem calling a small school policy change the "Don't say gay" bill even though, having read the actual bill, the word gay isn't in there at all.
Whether or not some things are allowed in the curriculum is a valid thing to debate. I sure hope parents do so, in fact! But, for fuck's sake, at least be honest about the debate. The press, in theory, could be an arbiter of facts, instead it's all repetition of the extreme hyperbole that is typically used to drive emotional responses. At that point, why bother with the journalists? Just read the protest organizer's bullshit statements verbatim an act like they're a recitation of fact.
Relevant:
https://twitter.com/MeganFoxWriter/status/1544426366837342208?t=HNoCG78C5zd79aZchvA8cw&s=19
The story about a 10 yr old pregnant girl who had to go from Ohio to IN for an abortion gives me serious pause for a number of reasons. There are many red flags. I'm going to detail them here.
[Thread, links]
https://twitter.com/MeganFoxWriter/status/1544475570553212928?t=hVI78XW5TgOo44PI2rbbfw&s=19
Here's an updated graph on the related media featuring #DrCaitlinBernard and this story or "women are going to die" because of Roe stories she was involved in. Still going. This is going to be a big spreadsheet by the time I'm done
[Chart]
'A self-described progressive prosecutor, he says he has "a lifetime of experience fighting for justice, equality and fairness."'
And his expertise shows, since on the oppressed societal victim scale, an aggressive black felon without (apparently) any money outranks an older Latino with a job. And we know the purpose of American justice in the 21st century is to sort out and provide redress for centuries of institutional racism.
Had the customer/attacker been a white skin-head MAGA type, the city would have given Alba a medal and a parade.
Have you learned nothing from the red guard? This is the plan, this is working exactly as expected.
Billie if you think criminal justice people want actual justice, before you write another article please look up what has happened in history, and if you don't understand the slit your wrists
Ok, good take.
Now, let's have an article on J6 protesters being held without bail for misdemeanor trespassing charges for 18 months.
Not going to happen. Reason clearly is in solidarity with their fellow travelers Schiff and Nadler on that subject.
Reason has 0 credibility on criminal justice reform or policing.
They torched it all in their coverage of Russiagate, covid, "mostly peaceful" protests (coordinated political terrorism), the election, and the January 6th protest.
The writers here are enemies of justice, liberty, and all decent Americans.
But they are still the voice of libertarianism to literally dozens of otherwise misinformed people who accidentally link to their site.
They're the public face of libertarianism... and that's bad news for libertarians
Yep. They’re a poor ambassador for liberty to anyone who’s not left leaning.
Same with Jorgensen and Spike Cohen
What the hell is wrong with people? Local news just reported (and showed video) two teenagers beat a 73 y.o. man to death with a traffic cone. Speedy trial, guillotine maybe?
If its NYC and the teenagers are black, probably just parole.
No, philly, but they will probably get a severe talking to before being released due to unfavorable upbringing, poverty, etc. etc.
Their brains aren't fully formed yet. They get a mulligan.
There's a lot of stuff like that going on.
The fruits of progressivism.
Was he old and white? They probably did us all a favor, amirite? We don’t need more old, white males.
Meh. A traffic cone? Now fire extinguishers are another topic altogether.
Never gets old.
A traffic cone? Those things are thin rubber!
It is "criminal justice" for the criminals and the Thug Bill of Rights.
1. The right to rob at will shall not be infringed.
2. Self defense is prohibited except between thugs
3. The right to walk away from arrest shall not be infringed
Being shoved by someone generally doesn't justify stabbing that person to death. Now, I haven't seen the video, I don't know if it's publicly available, so I don't know exactly what happened. But self-defense generally needs to be proportionate. Should Simon have been arrested? Yes. Should he have been sent to a place like Rikers Island? Ideally, no one should be, but that's the place that accused killers are sent in NYC, and it would be hard to make an exception in this case just because Simon seems like a sympathetic character. (I am glad a deal was eventually made for his release on bail.)
It was justified.
Debatable if it was necessary, but it was definitely justified.
https://twitter.com/davenewworld_2/status/1544980139376787456?t=UBE48YdLHoavKcNLQJ5D0A&s=19
WARNING: GRAPHIC ⚠️ Jose Alba was working at a bodega in NYC when he was attacked by an irate customer.
Alba stabbed him in self-defense and is now being charged with murder. Drop the charges and let this man go.
@GovKathyHochul @NewYorkStateAG
^video in link
You know, now that I've seen it, I'll say it's an edge case for what should be self defense. It's an older guy being confronted by a younger man, and he's being grabbed by his collar, so he doesn't know what's going to happen. That's what's going in the plus column.
But also, the young man isn't actively striking him at this point. There's no indication he's about to slap him again. Guy turns around and goes right for the neck.
Right now, I'd probably acquit, but additional information could convince me to convict if I was on this jury.
Yeah, it would help to hear what the guy was saying to the old man.
I was thinking the same thing.
Come into someone's property and slam them against the wall like a thug, get stabbed to death like a thug.
That's why I say it's definitely justified but debatably necessary. The dead guy is much larger, younger, and more fit than Alba. He'd already demonstrated instability and violence when he shoved Alba to the shelves. When Alba tries to escape, the dude grabs him from behind. At that point, any reaction is justified. If you don't want to get your throat cut, don't pursue a guy you've already assaulted and grab him from behind when he's trying to flee.
The attacker had his hands on the old man and was in the process of moving him around with force. To say the attacker wasn't "actively striking" the old man is an attempt to obscure this fact.
Fuck that. Once he came behind the counter (where he is clearly not welcome) and put his hands on Alba he became fair game for whatever Alba felt necessary.
I'd say it almost appears as if the old man is trying to get away and when grabbed from behind, definitely a threatening action as it prevents escape. It's likely then he reached for the knife and spins with a low stabbing motion before going to a high strike.
I'd think any jury would give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was trying to flee and being drawn back in left him with no other recourse.
Debatable if it was necessary, but it was definitely justified.
If it wasn't necessary, it wasn't justified. But having now watched the video (after puzzling out where the actual video link was on that Twitter page), I don't know if it was necessary or not. Certainly, there was a lot more than just a shove. But the stabbing takes place off camera. Did he have the opportunity to inflict a less-likely-lethal injury? There's no way to tell. And since there's no way to prove he did, a jury will probably find reasonable doubt that this was an unjustified killing. Certainly, the "illegal weapon possession" charge is bull. New York seems to add that charge whenever anyone is accused of killing someone with any implement at all, no matter how ordinary.
Did he have the opportunity to inflict a less-likely-lethal injury? There's no way to tell. And since there's no way to prove he did, a jury will probably find reasonable doubt that this was an unjustified killing. Certainly, the "illegal weapon possession" charge is bull. New York seems to add that charge whenever anyone is accused of killing someone with any implement at all, no matter how ordinary.
See Chemjeff's statement about allowing prosecutors to throw charges at any case and let a jury decide to see what sticks.
See Chemjeff's statement about allowing prosecutors to throw charges at any case and let a jury decide to see what sticks.
That is a misrepresentation of my position.
I don't think prosecutors should "throw charges" at "any case". I think that we have this complicated judicial system for a MULTITUDE OF REASONS, and one of those reasons is to let juries, not prosecutors and not judges, have the final say when it comes to borderline cases.
If this case truly is borderline, why shouldn't a jury make the call?
"If this case truly is borderline, why shouldn't a jury make the call?"
Because juries are frequently populated with people, who are too stupid to get off of jury duty.
Plus, the prosecution or exoneration can come down to the emotional reactions of these individual citizens, based on what gets by a judge, that is supposed to keep the trial focused on the law, and not emotionalism.
Fine. So how should borderline cases be handled? You don't trust juries, do you trust prosecutors? Should we give more power to prosecutors to use discretion in these types of cases?
When there is real doubt about whether a person is guilty or innocent, who should have the final say?
There is NO question whatsoever that the entire point of these prosecutions is to send a cold, calculated message to normal people that you are AT THE MERCY OF THE STATE. Self defense is NOT a right that you have. The police have a monopoly on violence, period, the end. Duty to flee, etc..
Reason has again successfully confused itself by the chimera of "criminal justice reform" with what Michael Shellenberger admitted in his 'mea culpa' was a deception. If leniency and reducing incarceration to keep people out of the prison pipeline is the principle, then that's the principle. If you pick and choose based on favored groups, go light, lighter, or essentially release people who have committed 10, 15, 20, 75 assaults but continuously get released in "diversion" programs because of "compassion", but then throw Thor's Prosecution Hammer at a 60 year old law-abiding citizen who defends himself against a violent thug (who has multiple felonies under his belt) then that's not "criminal justice reform". It's something else, but it ain't reform.
Anarchotyranny?
Yes.
"Reform" is a favorite of progressives, though it generally means something more radical than just a correction.
Just as "immigration reform" really means nothing more than amnesty for 30+ million foreign, government-dependent, illegal aliens.
Reason should just try, er, reasoning from libertarian principles. No one should be arrested and charged and jailed for using drugs, or for any peaceful transaction with another person. People who steal things or assault other people should be arrested, charged and jailed, not allowed to walk to do it again and encourage others to do the same.
You are either obtuse, or pretending to be.
The video very obviously shows the stabbing. He pops the in the neck, dead center. That was the fatal blow, the guy bled out.
As to whether he could do less-likely-lethal self defense, that's not how it works. This person came behind the counter, was agitated, the person on the other side of the glass was trying to calm him, the clerk began sitting calmly, and the guy was still menacing the clerk. He, quite literally, had him cornered and was physically threatening.
The instant he got the chance, the clerk defended himself. The specific actions of "how" are irrelevant, he was threatened and he defended against the threat.
You don't get a choice with a knife. It's not like the movies where everyone's magically skilled like a martial arts expert. For amateurs you stick it where you are able to stick it until the attacker stops attacking or runs away. Same with a gun, BTW, you don't shoot a dude in the leg or the shoulder, you aim for the center of mass and fire until the attacker is no longer a threat. If you're so scared you fear for your life or physical safety, you do not have the option of being selective.
As an example, look at how police do things. These are very highly trained people and on the rare occasions they need to draw their weapon they often miss, they often spray, they usually are shaking from the adrenaline, and they are never trained to go for less-likely-lethal if they're using the sidearm. They pop a half dozen right in the center of mass.
Prosecutor should be up shit creek for going after this guy on a murder 2 charge. I'm surprised NYC isn't to this point yet, but this is how you make folk heroes ala Bernie Goetz.
It is also noteworthy that if you stab a crazy, drugged out, adreno-freak in the leg, it is likely that he takes your knife and sodomizes you with it.
In a self defense situation, you must use deadly force. That is why it is so important to understand whether or not you are in a self defense situation.
Yep. Real life doesn't work like the movies or video games where you can shoot to disable. A stab wound in the leg can be fatal, for one, if you sever the artery, but the guy takes a long time to die, is really pissed, and is still right next to you because you just stabbed him.
The video isn't conclusive enough for me right now. I'd acquit because of presumed innocence, but if I'm on the jury, I'd be aware that other evidence might convince me to convict.
This is a point people seem to miss about self-defense. I think a lot of it comes from having no experience with fighting or weapons. If someone attacks me then I have no way of knowing how far they will take it in that moment. The aggressor is in the wrong and must be stopped. In a moment I need to gauge the amount of force necessary to quickly and safely end the threat. I'm going to use significantly less force on an unarmed 5'4 120lb. guy than a 6'2 240lb. guy. I don't know I can physically beat the big guy attacking me, so for my own safety my response will be centered on doing as much damage to him as possible up to and including lethal damage. If the attacker is an unarmed skinny guy I'll feel more at leisure to subdue him without any harm. Regardless, the attacker forfeits his rights. You would think all the writers at a libertarian magazine would understand and loudly proclaim this simple application of the NAP.
“Regardless, the attacker forfeits his rights. You would think all the writers at a libertarian magazine would understand and loudly proclaim this simple application of the NAP.”
This. The end.
I've mentioned this before this week, but I'm pretty much sure I'll completely fuck someone up if I fear for my life.
And that's not because I'm a great fighter. It's because I'm not. I don't like hurting people and will never fight unless it's literally life and death. And, because at that point I am going to be scared shitless, likely pumped full of adrenaline, and fighting for my life, there's no way in hell I'll make moderate and correct decisions.
I do have evidence, from a very long time ago when a tweaked out school bully attacked me. I hurt him, badly. Pretty sure he still can't see straight. I didn't want to hurt the guy. I actually felt bad about it for a while. I don't anymore, but I used to back when I was still a nice person.
When someone 6" taller and 50lbs heavier is in a rage and throwing punches, you use any weapon you have at hand. And you keep hitting him with it until he doesn't get up again. 30 people were in the room, not one of them bothered to help me, I was on my own and literally thinking "him or me". So, it was him.
There's nothing rational when you're hurt and scared, there's just "Make it stop". Adrenaline is a hell of a drug.
You're ngmi
Let me guess, you're one of those idiots who thinks cops and others should aim for the leg instead of center mass.
"Did he have the opportunity to inflict a less-likely-lethal injury?"
It absolutely makes no difference and the question itself is cringe worthy. Nobody it going to take the time to think "where can I stab that will stop but not kill?" It's combat, there are no rules, you're in it to see another day and there's no time to contemplate the fate of the other guy who seems to be trying to kill you.
I'll agree totally that especially given the recent SCOTUS ruling the weapon charge should get laughed out of court.
Being shoved by someone generally doesn't justify stabbing that person to death. Now, I haven't seen the video, I don't know if it's publicly available, so I don't know exactly what happened.
Watch the video. We'll take your apology off the air.
There is definitely reasonable doubt, but not clear self defense.
Very clear self defense
Did he reasonably fear bodily injury or death as a result of the actions of the perpetrator? Considering he shoved him and is shouting at him, I will say yes. Even in a retreat state, this qualifies as self defense because the victim (who was arrested for fuck sake) had no where to retreat too. The other guy attacked him, is yelling at him etc. He is much smaller than the aggressor and much older. Ergo, he had a reasonable fear of injury or death. Thus it's clearly self defense. Fuck, anyone who argues otherwise is either lying or stupid and doesn't understand the right to defend yourself.
“ shouting at him”
Assumes facts not in evidence.
What if he was saying: “Just give her the $20 and we’ll be OK” or something like that?
Not likely, but not impossible either without evidence.
I think you are very likely right, but reacting w/o considering possibilities. You are ‘rushing to judgment.’
With that body language?
You can't pull the "facts not in evidence" but then ignore the facts that are in evidence.
The guy was where he shouldn't have been.
The guy had already physically assaulted and battered the clerk (the shove is in evidence)
The guy's body language is menacing, he's close, he's bent forward, he's waving his arms and making gestures consistent with an agitated state.
This is all over a declined card for a purchase. So the attacker's mental state is in question. What, precisely, is the clerk supposed to do if a payment declines?
The clerk sat quietly and looked away after the initial shove, was completely non aggressive at first, and yet the attacker remained physically very close, bent over the clerk, with the aforementioned body language.
When the clerk left the chair the attacker had hold of his shirt by the scruff of his collar. This does not show that he was letting the clerk go. What's stated in the article above was that the attacker was pulling him out of the chair. Also, we cannot see what's behind the camera, so we don't know that there's a clear path to flee even if the attacker did not have hold of the clerk at that moment. So "appears to be getting past" is also conjecture, and bad conjecture.
You'd have to bring something way stronger to me than "you didn't hear his words" to convince me this deserves a murder charge were I on the jury.
Also, we cannot see what's behind the camera, so we don't know that there's a clear path to flee even if the attacker did not have hold of the clerk at that moment. So "appears to be getting past" is also conjecture,
You contradict yourself. We can’t see behind the camera, but we can see that the old guy was at least even with the thug when he grabbed the knife. There may or may not have been a clear path. That’s why I withhold judgment. In a proper trial such details would come out.
I certainly think a murder charge is ludicrous, but self defense is not fully supported either - by the limited facts in evidence. If this were the ONLY evidence that ever comes out the old guy should walk.
What, precisely, is the clerk supposed to do if a payment declines?
Accept Discover cards... or else.
It would be more clear self defense if the thug had pushed him down again, blocking his exit. But the guy got up and appears to be getting past when he stabs the thug.
The person who starts the assault is responsible for what happens next, not the person defending himself.
You've obviously never been "shoved" into a confined space by someone who's indicated a probably intent of smashing your brains out. All over your refusal to let someone have an item for "free".
You can remain passive and ask if they're they'd like to play tidily winks at your own expense.
Once the perp crossed the line by entrapping the shop owner behind the counter and attacking him all bets were off. Play stupid violent games, win violent prizes. He got what he deserved.
Clear cut self-defense.
^video in link
Somebody who is wearing a $300 T-shirt may not actually qualify as poor.
Well, if you're non-white in the SF Bay Area, it doesn't matter if you drive a Mercedes, have $200 hair extensions and attend pro sports engagements that cost hundreds of dollars for tickets. You still get to claim "poor", "institutional racism" and that the man is keeping you down.
Worse, the rest of us have been conditioned to just accept this. Challenging it will result in charges of racism and you'll be ostracized if not sent to a re-education camp somewhere. Usually a public school.
You assume he legally purchased the shirt.
How does that apply to this case? Left-leaning prosecutors are often suspicious of self-defense claims when the person killed is someone they'd often reflexively sympathize with. Simon was black, poor, and caught up in the criminal justice system. And so now Alba—himself neither white nor well-off—is caught up in the criminal justice system too.
Alba is an immigrant who came here legally. So fuck that guy.
Apparently he wasn't caught up in the criminal justice system, or he would have been safe in jail.
This article leaves out the fact that the thug's white girlfriend had gone to get her hubby and she herself had a knife, with which he stabbed the bodega guy in the arm (the big hole that can be seen).
Thanks No Sharia!
Totes unrelated here, No Sharia, but I just HAVE to know... Are you related to My Sharona? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR2JtsVumFA The Knack - My Sharona (1979) ... And do you have her contact info?
(I for one would like to get to know her better!)
If this is true, then I agree the fatal stabbing was fully justified.
"Prosecutors put off presenting the case to a grand jury until July 20, but wouldn’t say if the murder charge was still on the table.
"“I would be stunned if this case proceeds as a murder-two case or if this guy was convicted,” said attorney Mark Bederow, a former Manhattan prosecutor.
"“I don’t think a grand jury would indict him for murder in the second degree, and I don’t think a jury would convict him beyond a reasonable doubt given what the justification statute states,” he added, referring to a self-defense claim."
https://nypost.com/2022/07/07/judge-lowers-bail-on-nyc-bodega-worker-judge-lowers-bail-on-nyc-bodega-clerk-jose-alba-charged-with-murder-in-self-defense-casecharged-with-murder-in-self-defense-case/
Let's hope this gets to a real grand jury and not a ham sandwich grand jury.
Another possibility: Perhaps the prosecutor is posturing, and behind closed doors he will encourage the grand jury not to indict, so he can blame the grand jurors in public.
I have not seen the video, but if even the commenters here are saying it is a borderline self-defense case, then I am willing to accept at least as a legitimate premise that the case really is borderline.
So for a borderline case, in the context of our adversarial justice system, what is a prosecutor to do? In the case of a clearly guilty person, convene a jury of 12 morons and get a slam dunk guilty verdict. In the case of a clearly innocent person, use LEGITIMATE prosecutorial discretion to decline to prosecute. But in the case where a reasonable person may not be sure of guilt or innocence, I am fine with letting an impartial jury making the call after reviewing the facts of a trial. And the way this can happen in our system is to charge with a crime and let the jury convict or acquit as they see fit.
In fact I would rather prosecutors let juries have the final say more often instead of abusing prosecutorial discretion and never even giving them an opportunity to do so.
So this case doesn't outrage me so much as some of the others. Let the system have a chance to operate first.
In fact I would rather prosecutors let juries have the final say more often instead of abusing prosecutorial discretion and never even giving them an opportunity to do so.
Right, offer him with a jury trial in which he'll get 20 to life, or offer a plea bargain. I think... yeah, I think Reason just had an article on that. Not sure what their opinion was on that though.
In the context of our current system, what do you suggest?
If the case is genuinely borderline, who do you want making the final call?
I believe a jury should make the final call. What do you think?
You know, I like to make fun of Reason just like the next guy... but Reason has had some pretty good articles about how a prosecutor's job (and oh, by the way, multiple "reform minded" prosecutors have publicly said this-- which is why I can sometimes forgive reason for falling for the deception) is to dispense justice... not secure convictions. The prosecutor's primary job is not to secure convictions, but to make sure justice is served. You have a 60 year old immigrant working in a convenience store to make ends meet and is then attacked by a known dangerous thug, and throw a murder AND a weapons charge against the old man?
And no, I DON'T think the jury should make the call when the prosecutor is clearly puffing up the charges for the sole purpose sending a signal to your powerful backers that that BLM sign in his front yard means something.
You have a 60 year old immigrant working in a convenience store to make ends meet and is then attacked by a known dangerous thug
OR
You have a 60-year-old immigrant who, in the moment, panicked and used unnecessary force against an assailant against him.
Why should we believe your version of events over mine?
Because the 60 year old reasonably feared for his life.
Oh, and this is the last I'll say on this. Had Simon ran out of the store, and Alba chased him down and stabbed him in the back, then that would have been grounds for a manslaughter charge. That's not within a light year of what happened here.
Had Simon been on the other side of the counter and Alba gone around to meet him, that would have been "borderline".
Had Simon just come behind the counter (a very threatening move) and just talked to him, that would have been borderline.
I would donate to this guy's GoFundMe, but unlike BLM rioters, his GoFundMe got taken down, because GoFundMe is operated by cunts.
That's fine. You've made up your mind.
Probably because there’s video and it’s clear who was actually in the wrong.
No one doubts that Simon was in the wrong in starting the confrontation. That does not necessarily mean Alba wasn't also in the wrong by going too far.
I am fine with generally deferring to the defender when it comes to claims of self-defense. It does not mean that his actions should be free from scrutiny however. Having now seen more evidence, if I were on the jury I would vote to acquit. But the point here is that it ought to be up to a jury to make that call rather than relying even more on prosecutorial discretion.
You're an evil piece of shit, collectivistjeff.
"Why should we believe your version of events over mine?"
Well for starters, by your own admission, you haven't watched the video.
Arguing from ignorance is one of the many different dishonest tactics Lying Jeffy uses.
“used unnecessary force against an assailant against him.”
No such thing.
And no, I DON'T think the jury should make the call when the prosecutor is clearly puffing up the charges for the sole purpose sending a signal to your powerful backers that that BLM sign in his front yard means something.
Right so principals over principles. It doesn't matter if Alba is guilty or innocent, all that matters is stopping the prosecutor.
We've seen the video, cancer.
Many people have seen the video.
Why should your interpretation of the video be determinative?
Because I'm fucking sane, you fundamentally dishonest hack.
No one in their right mind should believe for even one nanosecond that you are motivated by anything other than 'stopping the left' and in this case it means defending Alba because that furthers the anti-left partisan narrative regardless of the facts of the case.
"How dare you support the right of self defense when dealing with the totalitarian left's footsoldiers!"
There we go. It's not about the facts in this case. It's about fighting 'the totalitarian left's footsoldiers'.
Yes, the facts of this case are the left using The State to persecute someone who defended himself from a career criminal who was the recipient of party favor via their "criminal justice reform"
The facts of the case are what we’re making our determinations from dumbass.
A "jury making the call" is massively expensive for both sides of the situation.
Then you get into such things as deposing witnesses, gathering your "experts", delving into the legalities involved, making motions, etc.; all going on the lawyers' bills.
Simply selecting the jury, and all that goes on with that, costs the municipality and the defendant quite a bit.
Sometimes justice can be expensive, you are right. It is much cheaper to simply have one person decide upon guilt or innocence of everyone. Would you prefer this?
False dichotomy.
If you think the prosecutor is a Soros tool who is implementing a globalist progressive agenda, then yes I can see how you might think that Alba is TOTALLY INNOCENT and this entire case is a flagrant abuse of prosecutorial misconduct because the real issue here isn't actually Alba's guilt or innocence, the real issue here is stopping the Soros puppet.
Is that what you believe?
The real goal is to dispense justice, not secure a prosecution against an unfavored defendant against a favored victim. As Mr. Shellenberger said about all of these Soros-backed reform organizations he enthusiastically worked for: I was deceived.
The real goal is to dispense justice
THAT'S RIGHT! We both agree!
And in a criminal case, if it is unclear what the just course of action is, according to our system, the arbiter of justice is a jury of peers. Is it not?
I don't give a shit about Soros or Shellenberger. Let's talk about the facts of this particular case. Is he CLEARLY guilty or CLEARLY innocent? Yes or no?
And in a criminal case, if it is unclear what the just course of action is, according to our system, the arbiter of justice is a jury of peers. Is it not?
So then you're on board with charge-stacking, throwing it at a Jury and then securing a plea deal.
Got it. I'll remember this one.
No of course not. There is a difference between "letting a jury decide in a fair and impartial trial" and "completely rigging the system to secure a desired outcome".
Perhaps you have become so completely cynical that you cannot even see what the purpose of a jury is in the first place.
What is your plan for deciding how to dispense justice? Pistols at dawn? What?
An elderly man was victimized and defends himself. He was arrested instead of being offered mental health support. And then thrown into Rikers. Yeah a jury should rule on this- rule on how many millions the taxpayers should award Mr. Alba.
Alba defended himself with a knife when a strong young male went behind the counter, threatened him, and put his hands on him. That is clearcut self-defense.
What issue do you believe is there for a jury to decide?
I'm sure you would then agree that any time a police officer is involved in a use of force allegation, it should be resolved in a fair and impartial manner where trumped up emotions and edited video should not be allowed? "Hands up, don't shoot!" should never have been allowed to be said inside a court room right? According to you, no one should have ever been able to claim Rittenhouse went looking for trouble because it was not presented at trial. You'd agree to that right?
And just to be super clear here. I am completely agnostic about whether Alba is guilty or innocent. I don't know. It is also fortunately not my call to make. We have a criminal justice system that is supposed to, at least in theory, determine the facts of a case in order to determine guilt or innocence. Isn't borderline cases like these the entire reason of having a system like this in the first place? We don't really need complicated jury trials for the obviously guilty nor for the obviously innocent.
You're a mendacious twit.
This isn't a borderline case.
I saw the video and I'm on the fence. I'm not sure the response was appropriate based solely on the video. I'd really need to know more about what happened.
Right? And in our system, a jury should be the body that makes the final call. And rightly so IMO. And that can only happen if first a prosecutor files charges and there is a jury trial. Perhaps we could imagine a system in which justice is served in cases like these with some other process. Personally I'm open to any reasonable idea. But the system that we have now is the system that we have to work with for this case.
It sure looks like a lot of people think Alba is TOTALLY INNOCENT because of one or both of:
1. the prosecutor is (presumably) a Soros stooge so fuck him
2. Simon was a thug with a rap sheet so fuck him
But those are not grounded in principles of justice. I am totally willing to believe that a New York prosecutor is a "Soros stooge". I am totally willing to believe that Simon was a thug with a criminal history. But those don't matter when it comes to the facts of this particular case.
This is just so sad. There are just so many people who are so warped by tribal nonsense, who hate the other team so much, who are so completely cynical, that they inject these tribal partisan narratives into cases that have absolutely nothing to do with any political cause whatsoever. You can't really get more apolitical than "convenience store altercation", can you?
You can't really get more apolitical than "convenience store altercation", can you?
Without trying to sort out the double or triple negatives in that statement, convenience store altercations are very political because the racial mix of the people involved can vary so much depending upon where it happens. Principles are thrown aside and identity politics takes over. The dead guy is black? What color is the killer? Was it over cigarettes? Was the guy armed? Was he black? Was the killer white?
This isn't a "convenience store altercation", which suggests two people getting into an argument somewhere in the store.
There is zero justification for a customer to go behind the counter of a convenience store, let alone to loom over an elderly clerk and shove him.
Does that justify deadly force?
You can use deadly force to defend yourself if you have to fear serious bodily injury or death.
Serious bodily injury means, among others: concussion; bone fracture; protracted loss or impairment of function of any bodily member or organ; a wound requiring extensive suturing; and serious disfigurement.
Punching or shoving someone into shelves frequently results in such injuries. Therefore, Alba reasonably assumed that he was at risk of several of those consequences, in particular given the disparity in size and age. Furthermore, Alba did not provoke this attack, rather the attacker was trespassing and in the process of committing a felony. And Alba couldn't have retreated.
If Alba hadn't defended himself, he'd probably have ended up in the hospital and months of disability, or straight in the morgue. It would have been a small notice in local news, and just another blip in the statistics.
An important point is that the deceased had a history of violence. Now Alba wouldn't have known this at the time, but it does suggest the possibility that he received threats or verbal abuse during the altercation.
Trial by internet!
It's the way of the world these days.
Imagine if the Duke lacrosse case happened today instead of 16 years ago.
Those kids would be convicted, and the lying crackwhore lionized.
I'm fine with a prosecutor taking a borderline case to trial so long as they do a serious effort at due diligence and don't do the typical prosecutor tactic of stonewalling the defense by failing to acknowledge and hand over exculpatory evidence and objecting to every well-thought defense argument that might hurt their chance of winning a conviction. Unfortunately, in every self-defense case I've seen prosecuted in the past 10 years, the prosecuting team has used every dirty tactic to serve their win-loss record in court rather than to serve justice for its own sake.
I'm fine with a prosecutor taking a borderline case to trial so long as they do a serious effort at due diligence and don't do the typical prosecutor tactic of stonewalling the defense by failing to acknowledge and hand over exculpatory evidence and objecting to every well-thought defense argument that might hurt their chance of winning a conviction.
I completely agree. It should be an honest and fair trial. To the extent that prosecutors have discretion to rig the system away from this ideal, that ought to be the focus of criminal justice reform IMO.
It should be an honest and fair trial.
Except that it's an open secret that the D.A. will lie and if possible withhold evidence. Judges know this and don't care. And even if they did prosecutors have absolute immunity so it doesn't matter.
Different jurisdictions, but during the Rittenhouse case, Binger both violated Kyle's rights and tried to introduce material that was ruled inadmissible. And all he received was a (rather entertaining) verbal lashing.
Binger should have been disbarred. Any prosecutor who withholds exculpatory Brady material, no matter how strong the rest of their case is, should be disbarred and themselves prosecuted with at least obstruction of justice.
Me explaining my ideal for a court process is not me indicating in any way that I think that ideal will be met. I know it won't.
And as Diane said, don't stack and overinflate charges to pressure a plea deal.
What's the difference between "borderline" and "reasonable doubt"?
"So for a borderline case, in the context of our adversarial justice system, what is a prosecutor to do?"
If you are a DA who ran on a compassionate case of leniency, you decline to take the case further. If you are not, you take it to a grand jury and let them decide without playing the prosecutorial games that prosecutors often play to get a grand jury to bring charges.
DAs often run on their conviction rate, which makes them appear tough and effective when it is high. So they cherry pick cases they can win. This saves the system money running trials that are ‘losses’ by the gov and shows them not prosecuting ‘innocents.’
Not the best incentives for voting or for the type of prosecutor we would prefer.
A high conviction rate implies that everyone who is charged is guilty, doesn't it? Think about it. If a high conviction rate is good, wouldn't a 100% be ideal? None of those guilty people were able to get off.
It also implies that the DA won’t try borderline cases. Pleas obviate uncertain trials.
Often? Always!
I hate to pile onto chem, but before talking about going to a trial jury, it needs to go to a grand jury. The article I quoted had an experienced ex-prosecutor suggesting the grand jury wouldn't indict for 2nd degree murder.
Another possibility is the prosecutor isn't actually interested in bringing this case to trial, so he's going to signal to the grand jurors in private that maybe the evidence kind of sucks, so when the grand jury doesn't indict, he can make indignant public statements about the white-supremacist grand jury blocking this just prosecution.
THE most libertarian podcast I've heard this year. Hands down.
Yes, Spiked and Unherd are among my favorite podcasts/ websites. Neither does a great job on some American issues, however, due to a limited understanding of our system. But on most items they are very astute (culture war, liberty, Russia) and have quite thoughtful discussions. Quillette is another.
Reason’s various offerings are just a step behind.
This is why I think a lot of people are slow to jump on the criminal justice reform bandwagon. The only people who are winning office on criminal justice reform platforms will also gladly criminalize you're right to self-defense. It gives people the impression that criminal justice reform is just a marketing platform and what the politicians are really after is not to decrease the number of people being incarcerated or overly punished by the long arm of the law, but rather to spring their ideological allies from the cells and put their ideological opponents in to take their allies' place.
It's one thing for a prosecutor to not bust someone down for drug possession and another to just outright refuse to prosecute people that walk into stores and steal as much as they like (under a certain dollar amount) while beating on any store employees that won't put up with it. This looks more like leftist prosecutors authorizing a self-administered redistribution of wealth than it does ethical people genuinely believe that the criminaly justice system screws over people simply trying to peacefully go about their lives or going easy on people who made genuine mistakes.
It looks like leftist prosecutors taking a calculated move and saying "the guy who I let off for shoplifting or squatting and refusing to pay rent probably agrees with my broader political views on redistribution of wealth and expanding the social welfare state and if I can keep him out of jail he can keep voting for those policies and candidates who support those policies" while at the same time saying "those shop employees who violently resist being robbed probably or people who defend their homes probably have overly capitalistic views about property rights and it would be better if they were in prison than potentially voting for people who might defend these notions of property rights that I dislike."
It is an unfortunate thing that the criminal justice reform stuff is so closely associated with cultural marxists who don't really care about helping people but simply see selective prosecution as just another means of conditioning society to move away from property rights and capitalistic notions and towards more socialized ones. Reason has spent a lot of time promoting these types of criminal justice reform types, while maybe not recognizing the fact that criminal justice reform is often just a slogan trumpeted by people who have some otherwise very illiberal/anti-libertarian views."
What is the net benefit to society of electing someone who won't arrest you for smoking pot but will bankrupt you if you dare to be a landlord renting out property you own, or imprison you for the rest of your life for protecting yourself?
What is the value to you of electing a neocon Republican who pays lip service to religious liberty but who votes to expand the police state and get us into more wars?
If Reason wants to help move the criminal justice reform issue along in a way that's actually helpful to society, it should vet out anyone who claims to promote such reforms and steer far clear of endorsing those people if it so happens that criminal justice reform is just one good-sounding slogan among a batch of really terrible progressive and cultural Marxist objectives.
What is the net benefit to society of electing someone who won't arrest you for smoking pot but will bankrupt you if you dare to be a landlord renting out property you own, or imprison you for the rest of your life for protecting yourself?
What is the value to you of electing a neocon Republican who pays lip service to religious liberty but who votes to expand the police state and get us into more wars?
Well now you see why many of us just refuse to support the Team Red/Team Blue duopoly anymore.
I don't think anyone at Reason is endorsing these reform-minded prosecutors based on their views on, say, tax policy. It's because they are moving the needle in favor of criminal justice reform in their own flawed way. Look. Everyone here who did not completely and totally endorse Trump was constantly berated during his four years that, while he was no libertarian, he deserved credit for the libertarian-ish things that he did accomplish. And they were right. Trump did deserve credit for a few of the libertarian-ish things that he did accomplish, like reducing regulations. Giving Trump credit for a few things that he did right is in no way an endorsement of his entire awful essence. It is the same with these reformist prosecutors. They get a few things right when they do things like not waste time busting pot smokers. But they are by no means libertarians and it is totally fair to condemn them for the very non-libertarian things that they do. And if it turns out that this prosecutor is prosecuting Alba for some racially-motivated bullshit then yes he should be called out for it.
It's not a "duopoly", it's how WTA voting systems work. And it's a good system.
Most of your power is during primaries. By the time the main election comes around, you usually can toss a coin, since you are going to hate both choices equally. That's by design.
Well I disagree. WTA systems do not necessarily have to produce two and only two parties in charge. Even in Britain, which also has a FPTP system, there are two major parties, but there are also minor parties represented in Parliament. Other nations managed to have reasonably democratic systems of government without a rigid two-party-only system.
Our two party system is only "rigid" because the populace is so easily propagandized and apathetic.
Minor parties represent fringe political views. Yet, in multi-party systems, they often end up holding disproportionate power. And in multi-party systems, compromises are worked out by the parties in backroom deals with no possibility of voter input. Hitler and many other dictators came into power through just those mechanisms.
When a two party system results from WTA voting, it means that the two parties have to adopt positions that split the electorate in half. This means there are no splinter parties with disproportionate power, and it means that political compromises need to be made within each party and prior to the elections.
The US system may give us a steady stream of Jacksons, Carters, Bushes, and Bidens, but people like Hitler and Mussolini just don't stand a chance. The closest we got was FDR.
It's not a "duopoly"
Really? It's just two sides of the same coin. The left passes laws to restrict economic liberty while the right does do jack to repeal bad laws. The right passes laws to restrict personal liberty (and economic liberty since post-Trump conservatives have abandoned the principles of classical liberalism) while the left does jack to repeal bad laws. It's a one-way ratchet, tightening around the neck of Lady Liberty, with both sides complicit in the actions of the other.
Two sides of the same duopolistic coin.
Yes, that is what it is supposed to be.
Whatever they are doing, they roughly represent the median will of voters. That is, Americans apparently want to restrict economic liberty and personal liberty.
The reason the median American has become such an authoritarian asshole is mainly found in the education system and the media.
Whatever the cause, if you want to change this, you're not going to do it by changing how we elect politicians, you actually have to change the minds and attitudes of your fellow American citizens.
To be fair, Republicans have been ridding themselves of neocons. After all, the neocons originally came from the Democratic party, and that's where they are returning.
The US system guarantees that you have a choice between two people you hate, but who are somewhere near the political center. Pick the one you hate less.
(Other systems usually give you someone you might actually like to vote for, they may even become part of the government, and then they screw you over in backroom deals. The US system is better.)
"...the criminal justice reform stuff is so closely associated with cultural marxists who don't really care about helping people but simply see selective prosecution as just another means of conditioning society to move away from property rights and capitalistic notions and towards more socialized ones."
Best and most concise explanation of Soros' agenda I've seen; and besides he is as rich as God and will never personally be affected by the outcome of his misguided agenda.
So the lesson is, be the aggressor. The key to prosperity is for us all to rob bodegas, and kill the workers if they get in the way.
In this scenario, Alba has been designated as an honorary white guy.
To be fair, not only are most Hispanics white, his name literally means "white".
IIRC, federal "hate crime" laws consider a Hispanic as white, if he is the aggressor, while listing him as non-white, if the victim.
Need to get those statistics up!
Alvin Bragg is a lefturd cunt who should be disbarred for malicious prosecution of an obviously innocent defendant, just like that scumbag who tried to railroad Kyle Rittenhouse.
-jcr
"...Councilmembers Joann Ariola (R–Queens), Joe Borelli (R–Staten Island), David Carr (R–Staten Island), Robert Holden (D–Queens), Vickie Paladino (R–Queens), Inna Vernikov (R–Brooklyn), and Kalman Yeger (D–Brooklyn)."
There are Republican councilmembers in NYC?
I had the same thought!
Maybe in some other state they'd be known as...moderate Democrats.
No, change that...what's the incentive to run as a moderate Democrat nowadays?
Hey, looters is looters, socialism is nationalsocialism, and The Kleptocracy is the KKKleptocracy. What's not clear?
Surely one of the pressing problems today is ensuring that criminals are protected from being hurt or even killed by their victims attempting to defend themselves. Enough of this self defense nonsense. Take the whupping and let the police deal with it later. And be ready to be prosecuted in the event the crook hurts his hand on your head while giving you a whupping. Gotta’ get our priorities right.
In a just world, the head of Austin Simon would be on a spike in front of the bodega.
^
That Alba was white and the attacker was black, with a history of felonies and prison is the deal here. A black male being killed by a white male ..... expect the term white supremacist to be hauled out by the MSM any day now. CNN will lead the charge and Joy Reid will screech hysterically.
The truth of the matter is that Alba acted in self defense. It's obvious that Simon had every intention of escalating the confrontation into violence. He was losing control and if he hadn't been stopped Alba could have become the nest murder victim. Instead he turned the tables on Simon.
It was self defense. Plain and simple. But Bragg doesn't see it that way. he sees it as another racist white male unjustly killing another po innocent black male.
Liberal D.A.s are the bane of justice. It's no wonder democrat run cities have become violent crime ridden hell holes.
Literally!
"Charging a Bodega Worker Who Stabbed His Attacker Isn't Criminal Justice Reform"
Yes it is. "Criminal justice reform" has been amply demonstrated to be a code term for siding with thieves and thugs against honest citizens.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/left-wing-german-minister-wants-confiscate-guns-owned-members-right-wing-afd
The move would ostensibly target “right-wing extremists,” but that list includes AfD members, over 30,000 Germans, who would have “appropriate revocation procedures” initiated against them under the plan.
AfD members who are hunters or marksmen and legally own guns would have them confiscated by the state, with Maier citing the reason that the AfD in Thuringia is “proven to be right-wing extremist.”
AfD members are already subject to draconian surveillance measures after Germany’s top court designated them a “potential” threat to democracy.
Their political leaders are also constantly the target of violent attacks and assassination attempts by members of Antifa.
“Ironically, the government’s own data shows that AfD members and politicians are the most attacked party in the country,” writes John Cody.
“Yet, there has never been a case of any member protecting themselves with a firearm, despite a number of serious assaults.”
Everyone should own a shovel.
https://reason.com/2022/07/06/after-chesa-boudins-recall-what-is-the-future-of-criminal-justice-reform/?comments=true#comment-9589367
Like I said, racial discrimination (in favor of minorities) is part of "their principles" (to their shame).
Just because Trumpanzees are suddenly a minority, don't expect anyone to withhold the unequal and apposite reprisals you disgusting girl-bullying mystics have coming. Over at National Socialist Review, sympathy awaits your sobbing ilk.
It may not be reform as normals understand it, but Progressive Criminal Justice Reform means protecting minority criminals from harm. Their primary goal is protecting minority and left wing criminals from the state, and their secondary goal is using the state to crush those who protect themselves against minority and left wing criminals.
It's disappointing so many libertarian reformers cannot understand that while progressives label their policies the same as libertarians the underlying policies themselves are wildly different. They will never be allies. If you join them anyway they will never moderate to support reasonable goals, instead you will support their nonsense.
progressives label their policies the same as libertarians
Camouflage designed to appear moderate and freedom-loving. Part of the Marxist language control program.
Ouch.
Caught that myself and was going to comment.
Surprised people here didn't jump on it right away.
We also need to add to this list of cases the woman goaded the man into a situation, and the man wanted to look tough in front of his woman, and it got him killed. There's a variety of woman out there who loves to pick fights to force her man to get into situations. It's toxic femininity.
No, the patriarchy made them succumb to concepts of male dominance, and that was why she called upon a man to attack Alba, rather than being a strong woman and doing it herself.
/sarc
It is working exactly as intended, just not how it has been marketed.
The point of all of it is disruption. Encourage criminality by declining to jail or prosecute violent criminals, while using the full force of government against law abiding people who dare to defend themselves.
You have to wonder what the actual reasoning is behind charging this man. Not the conspiracies running rampant in the comments...
I think he probably gave a bad police interview. Reportedly he said something like, "The guy told me he was going to make me apologize to the girl, right before I stabbed him." Which sounds bad, out of context.
Resisting.
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Bragg sought protection for black criminals.
Non-white is better than white, but totally trumped by black.
After viewing the video a couple times it's plain as day: Self defense!
So then this race baiting D.A, most likely funded by Soros wants to make sure that all you whiteys better think twice 'bout defending yo-selves cuz there be ramifications fer doin so.
On the other hand, it's rather obvious that Simon was on a rampage and would have injured Alba and possibly even murdered him. Someone who has already spent time in prison and multiple felonies would care less about who he victimized,
especially if it was a Latino or Asian.
Hopefully there will be a Gofundme page set up for his defense.
Hopefully there will be a Gofundme page set up for his defense.
There was. GoFundMe canceled it. They take sides in any case involving race.
Didn't Heinlein deal with the proper response of a shop owner to a "free-lance socialist" in "Time Enough for Love"?
IIRC, one of the "twins-who-weren't-twins" episodes involved someone trying to rob a restaurant and the proprietor getting a reward for killing the assailant, then being given a plastic replica of the head of the assailant to put on a spike on the counter as a reminder to others.
But Alba's go-fund-me page was shut down?????
Uh.... I think I see the problem here.....
Imagining a line of plastic heads along the side of the bodega counter...
Bingo!
Cut the head off the assailant, stick it on a spike.... sort of makes the point quite well.
Although a line of them???? Unlikely. Thugs aren't stupid, they'll just go to the next bodega with no heads on spikes and try their luck there.
I blame Alba for using a knife that doesn't have a forward assist.
But principles don't mean much if they aren't applied consistently.
...
Simon was black, poor, and caught up in the criminal justice system.
"Man stabbed by private shopkeeper over friend's inability to pay killed by criminal justice system." - Principled Journalism
The criminalization of self defense is a bizarre trend. I don't know where it comes from, but maybe it's a perversion of being opposed to the death penalty. A criminal might use physical force to make you comply, but if the justice system shouldn't kill them for lesser crimes, maybe you shouldn't either?
I cannot imagine how else these so called liberals/progressives end up as anti self defense. It's clear that they don't want you to do anything that might harm a criminal. Very bizarre mental gymnastics. Feels like inmates running the asylum.
I think it's really more about the former. If blacks and whites are at each other's throats all the time, the good society cannot prevail anywhere there is a substantial number of both.
Felons can't vote, so I fail to see how putting them back on the street affects political headwinds in any way except a counter-productive one (from the POV of the "criminal justice" reformers").
This is our future should we fail to eradicate the democrat threat. Violent criminals coddled and protected. While productive innocents are not allowed to protect themselves.
You're a sick racist scumbag
So there really are sadists in high places? People who've succeeded in gaining power primarily to inflict misery on the general population?
You fail to understand the game at play here. "Made men"? No. Made Men inhabit a particular social order. It is stable to an extent.
These marxists are solely focused on dividing classes. Because if you divide classes, and convince them that the existing system will never alleviate their pain- that it in fact fuels and exacerbates it- you create class warfare.
Marxists want class warfare because they want the destruction of our government, so they can insert their own new world order.
It works in Chicago - everybody knows the gangs work for the Democrats in Chicago, just ask Obama.
While violent crime is more common amongst black american populations, you do realize the majority of black people are not violent criminals and dont want violent crime dominating the neighborhoods they live in?
Your idea that black people will support democrats because violent crime is up is patently absurd.
"Felons can't vote"
In NY, I believe they can vote the moment they get out of prison, even if they're on parole.
That sounds fishy to me! I think that you are sick to your Alba-core!
SQRLSY really is a disgusting pervert Marxist. A true democrat.
All of you fascists look at the likes of the above case, and conclude that not only do we need more "sensible gun control", but now we need more sensible knife control ass well!
The only chips sqrlsy’s interested in eating are buffalo chips.
You resent the hell out of the fact that many other people are flat-out, better, more honest people than you are, right? More “live and let live”, and WAAAY less authoritarian?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/in-love-and-war/201706/why-some-people-resent-do-gooders
From the conclusion to the above…
These findings suggest that we don’t need to downplay personal triumphs to avoid negative social consequences, as long as we make it clear that we don’t look down on others as a result.
SQRLSY back here now… So, I do NOT want you to feel BAD about YOU being an authoritarian asshole, and me NOT being one! PLEASE feel GOOD about you being an evil, lying asshole! You do NOT need to push me (or other REAL lovers of personal liberty) down, so that you can feel better about being an asshole! EVERYONE ADORES you for being that asshole that you are, because, well, because you are YOU! FEEL that self-esteem, now!
^
Nothing like a video to wreck a narrative.
The truth can be difficult, snowflake.
So says a sick racist scumbag............................................
In Illinois they get 3 votes when they are in prison!
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You dumbass. You were called out for making fun of the victim's appearance. I thought I already muted your idiocy.
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And somebody does the voting for them!
A demographic comprising 13% of the population commit over 33% of murders in the US. What's racist is refusing to address the dysfunction in the black community because "OMG racist!".
I don't think you guys understand that SQRLSY was being sarcastic. It is understandable due to his...uh...flowery (??!) prose.
Did he drag out ‘Tim the Enchanter’ yet?
Very considerate!
I think it's more than the 33% you cite.
4 per cent of the US population--black males aged 11-44--commit more than 50 per cent of U.S. murders.
The US does not have a white supremacy problem nor a gun problem. What the US has is a feral blacks problem.
More like 55% and trending higher.
OK. Please explain blacks' preference for Democrats in spite of their soft-on-crime agenda.
He's one of two non-spam accounts I have on mute because I can't parse the crazy, and it's not worth the time.
And 90% of those are other blacks.
You see, those are the kinds of social services prisoners need to encourage them to reintegrate into the community after their sentences.
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Because Republicans have taken a couple of positions that work against equality. 1) States Rights - the idea that national laws - like voting rights - should conform to the narrowist possible reading of the Constitution. i.e. leave it up to the states. 2) The Republican attitude that "we are all equal now" -which doesn't take into account generational poverty - so we can drop any program that even marginally benifits the more disadvantaged. Vouchers. So you can send your kid to a 30K a year private school and get a nice refund of $4k or so from the government (your still on the hook for the other 26K). That doesn't help someone whose parents are making just above minimum wage.
Bottom line, like any good economist, they feel they will get more when they vote Democrat.
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