Comic: Roger Williams in 'Crazy Talk!'

Williams believed the government had no authority to meddle in religious beliefs. Blasphemy!

(Peter Bagge)

Comments

[kcuch]

I'm coming to believe that it is Celebrating Diversity that is the problem. Diluting Western Civilization with failed cultural artifacts is not a strategy for advancing the human condition.

[Mike Laursen]

The notion that Western Civilization had ever had some kind of moat of purity around it is fallacious. Every civilization in the world is about cultural “appropriation”, all the way down.

[Cal Cetín]

"Every civilization in the world is about cultural “appropriation”, all the way down."

You'll never be woke with that attitude.

"The notion that Western Civilization had ever had some kind of moat of purity around it is"

and undefensible - and undefended. Criticizing the impurities withing Western civilization is quite traditional in Western civilization.

George Washington wasn't the biggest fan of England.

Aristophanes, Socrates and Plato weren't exactly enthusiastic about the Athenian constitution.

Charles Dickens wasn't too hot on England's social institutions.

Michaelangelo's Last Judgment suggests that not all will be well with certain Europeans.

...and so on.

[The Encogitationer]

One of the things that makes Western thought the best is the idea of going where logic and evidence takes us, no matter how unpleasant it is, and that objective truth can be found in many sources. Also, this approach is not confined to the Western world but can be and is embraced by anyone, regardless of clime, time, birth, or nation.

Best yet, what makes the West the best is not that it is incapable of wrong, but that it holds that when you see you're heading on a wrong path, you have the ability to reverse course, to change your mind.

Never apologize for this.

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[The Encogitationer]

You, however, owe us an apology for that.

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[The Encogitationer]

You too. Can't you take a hint?

[Mother's Lament]

This comic is still one of the best things left at Reason.

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It’s actually sort-of libertarianish. Needs to go, along with Stossel.

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[The Encogitationer]

Roger Williams was a believer I could get along with and embrace as a good neighbor and friend! 100 percent the opposite of the bigoted Baptists of today, even though Williams was founder of the denomination!

Canochet seemed 100 percent the opposite of his tolerant Father, clearly showing that freedom, tolerance and peace has to be taught and upheld in every generation to sustain it.

[Cal Cetín]

I don't think Roger Williams founded the Baptists.

IIRC he was a Calvinist who believed in a church of the elect only. But the churches with which Williams was affiliated dissatisfied him because they allowed non-elect people to membership. In the end, I'm not sure if Williams ever found a church to suit him.

If I'm correct about his ecclesiology, then he certainly wouldn't want to use government force to drag people to church. This would simply gather in the non-elect and contaminate whichever church they went to.

[Mother's Lament]

because they allowed non-elect people to membership

Calvinists believe God chooses the elect through secret will, which hasn't revealed. They wouldn't be able to, or want to determine who was elect themselves because that would be setting oneself up as God.

[Cal Cetín]

Yet somehow many of them (like Williams IIRC) thought they could detect signs of grace. Likewise in Massachusetts, to have church membership (and hence civil rights) you had to give signs that you were of the elect.

[Mother's Lament]

"opposite of the bigoted Baptists of today, even though Williams was founder of the denomination"

What? No. Baptists were started by John Smyth and Thomas Helwys who were Englishmen living in Amsterdam at the very start of the 1600's. Most of their theology came from Arminianism, a branch of Protestantism that conflicted with the Calvinist doctrine of predestination, in that the will of man is freed by grace prior to regeneration.
The Methodists and Pentecostals also came from Arminianism.
Arminianism in turn was influenced by the Anabaptists who got to most of their ideas from the pre-reformation Waldensians, and they originated in the 1180's.

There's little to no Calvinism in the Baptists.

[The Encogitationer]

ML and Cet, The Wiki Page on Roger Williams has it that Williams and Roger Clarke were co-founders of the Baptist denomination and that Williams agreed with Baptists on many doctrines, although Williams never formally affiliated with any church. So I partially misspoke.

Nevertheless, I doubt he would recognize or want affiliation with the Authoritarianism and dogmatism Baptists embrace today.

Roger Williams--Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams

[Libertariantranslator]

Peter Bagge is one of Reason's most valuable contributors. The small number of ordure-flinging Trumpanzees venturing their negative gibberish is added evidence there is nothing here to find fault with.

[Mother's Lament]

Stop trolling, sarcasmic.

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[The Encogitationer]

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The End Is Near Quickies|Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In|George Schlatter
https://youtu.be/zDGpbK_vR7g

[Libertariantranslator]

Bagge should enter some of these cartoons in the Orwell Prize contest.