SCOTUS Vacates 4 Decisions Upholding Gun Control Laws Whose Constitutionality Now Looks Doubtful
The Court told appeals courts to reconsider their conclusions in light of last week's ruling against New York's restrictions on public possession of firearms.

The Supreme Court yesterday vacated four appeals court decisions upholding gun control laws, remanding the cases for reconsideration in light of its decision last week in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The remanded cases involve Hawaii's restrictions on carrying guns for self-defense, California's 10-round magazine limit, a similar New Jersey law, and Maryland's "assault weapon" ban.
In Bruen, the Court said New York's restrictions on carrying concealed handguns in public, which required "proper cause" for a permit, violated the Second Amendment. The majority opinion by Justice Clarence Thomas, which was joined by five other justices, also clarified the constitutional test for gun regulations, rejecting "interest-balancing" standards in favor of a historical approach that asks whether a challenged law is analogous to restrictions that have traditionally been viewed as consistent with the right to keep and bear arms.
The law addressed in Young v. Hawaii, a 9th Circuit case, bears the closest resemblance to the facts in Bruen. Young involves Hawaii's highly restrictive carry permit policy, which requires that applicants demonstrate "the urgency or the need" to carry unconcealed firearms, that they have "good moral character," and that they are "engaged in the protection of life and property." As interpreted by Hawaii County (the "Big Island"), those standards limit open-carry permits to "private detectives and security guards."
Hawaii's concealed-carry policy, which was not at issue in Young, was similarly restrictive. It required a permit applicant to satisfy the county police chief that he represented "an exceptional case" and that he had "reason to fear injury" to his "person or property." That law was consistent with the 9th Circuit's 2016 decision in Peruta v. San Diego County, which upheld a local interpretation of California's "good cause" requirement for concealed-carry permits, declaring that there is "no Second Amendment right for members of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public."
In 2017, the Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal of the 9th Circuit's decision in Peruta, prompting objections from Thomas in a dissent joined by Justice Neil Gorsuch. "I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen," Thomas wrote. Five years later, Thomas' majority opinion in Bruen decisively rejected that proposition.
Pre-Bruen, the question for the 9th Circuit in Young was whether carrying guns openly was constitutionally different from carrying them concealed, which Peruta had deemed outside the scope of the Second Amendment. In 2018, a divided three-judge panel concluded that the distinction was relevant. In an opinion by Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain, the panel said "the Second Amendment encompasses the right of a responsible law-abiding citizen to carry a firearm openly for self-defense outside of the home." After rehearing the case, the 9th Circuit overturned that decision.
Hawaii's rules (like California's) represented the very sort of discretionary carry permit policy that the Supreme Court rejected in Bruen. Residents did not have a presumptive right to carry firearms for self-defense. Instead, they had to satisfy local officials that they had a good enough reason to do so, which transformed a "right of the people" into a privilege for the few. The 9th Circuit nevertheless concluded that "Hawai'i's restrictions on the open carrying of firearms reflect longstanding prohibitions" and therefore regulate conduct "outside the historical scope of the Second Amendment."
That 2021 decision pitted Judge Jay Bybee, who wrote the majority opinion, against O'Scannlain, who wrote a blistering dissent that was joined by three other judges. Bybee and O'Scannlain both looked to history for evidence that Hawaii's virtual ban on public carry was consistent with the Second Amendment, but they reached diametrically opposed conclusions.
"The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms,'" O'Scannlain wrote. "Today, a majority of our court has decided that the Second Amendment does not mean what it says. Instead, the majority holds that while the Second Amendment may guarantee the right to keep a firearm for self-defense within one's home, it provides no right whatsoever to bear—i.e., to carry—that same firearm for self-defense in any other place….We now become the first and only court of appeals to hold that public carry falls entirely outside the scope of the Amendment's protections."
Duncan v. Bonta, another 9th Circuit gun case that the Supreme Court remanded yesterday, likewise overturned a panel decision that took a broader view of the rights protected by the Second Amendment. That case involves California's ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, which it calls "large capacity magazines" (LCMs), even though they come standard with many of the most popular handguns and rifles sold in the United States.
In 2020, a divided 9th Circuit panel concluded that the magazine limit was inconsistent with the constitutional right to armed self-defense. "Firearms or magazines holding more than ten rounds have been in existence—and owned by American citizens—for centuries," Judge Kenneth Lee noted in the majority opinion. "Firearms with greater than ten round capacities existed even before our nation's founding, and the common use of LCMs for self-defense is apparent in our shared national history."
The 9th Circuit overturned that decision last year, applying the "two-step framework" that Bruen unambiguously rejected. The court assumed, without deciding, that California's law implicated the Second Amendment. It then applied "intermediate scrutiny," which requires that a challenged law be "substantially related to the achievement of an important governmental interest." The court thought the LCM ban clearly met that test, because there was a "reasonable fit" between the 10-round limit and the "important government interest of reducing gun violence."
The 9th Circuit noted that "many mass shootings involve large-capacity magazines" and averred that "large-capacity magazines tragically exacerbate the harm caused by mass shootings." LCMs "allow a shooter to fire more bullets from a single firearm uninterrupted," it said, "and a murderer's pause to reload or switch weapons allows potential victims and law enforcement officers to flee or to confront the attacker." The court gave no weight to the implications of that "pause to reload" in self-defense situations.
In a dissent joined by Judges Sandra Ikuta and Ryan Nelson, Judge Patrick Bumatay described LCMs as "a firearm component with a long historical lineage commonly used by Americans for lawful purposes, like self-defense." Bumatay noted that "these magazines are lawfully owned by millions of people nationwide and come standard on the most popular firearms sold today." In his view, those facts made the LCM ban clearly inconsistent with the Second Amendment as interpreted by the Supreme Court in the landmark 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller. Under that precedent, he said, "the Constitution protects the right of law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms typically possessed for lawful purposes."
In a separate dissent, O'Scannlain agreed with Bumatay and criticized the 9th Circuit's general approach to Second Amendment cases, which he said reflected "a single-minded focus on ensuring that any panel opinions actually enforcing the Second Amendment are quickly reversed." The majority of the 9th Circuit "distrusts gun owners and thinks the Second Amendment is a vestigial organ of their living constitution," O'Scannlain wrote. "Those views drive this circuit's caselaw ignoring the original meaning of the Second Amendment and fully exploiting the discretion inherent in the Supreme Court's cases to make certain that no government regulation ever fails our laughably 'heightened' Second Amendment scrutiny."
The Supreme Court also vacated Association of New Jersey Rifle and Pistol Clubs v. Bruck, a 2020 decision in which the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit upheld that state's ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. The three-judge panel deferred to another 3rd Circuit panel's conclusion that the law was constitutional.
Like the 9th Circuit in cases like Duncan, that 2018 decision applied a "two-step analytical approach." It assumed, without deciding, that the magazine limit had something to do with the Second Amendment and then proceeded to uphold the law under intermediate scrutiny, concluding that "New Jersey's law reasonably fits the State's interest in public safety and does not unconstitutionally burden the Second Amendment's right to self-defense in the home."
Writing in dissent, Judge Paul Matey, like Bumatay in Duncan, reviewed the long history of allowing Americans to possess guns that can fire more than 10 rounds without reloading. As he saw it, that history made it clear that the magazines New Jersey had banned were covered by the Second Amendment. He concluded that the law could not pass muster even under intermediate scrutiny, since the state had not presented evidence that a 10-round limit would have a measurable impact on mass-shooting fatalities or that its prior, 15-round limit had such an effect. Anticipating Bruen, Matey also expressed "serious doubts" about the "the two-step balancing test," which he suggested was inconsistent with Heller.
Bianchi v. Frosh, the fourth decision that the Supreme Court vacated yesterday, upheld Maryland's ban on "assault weapons," defined to include specified models, "copies" of them, and any semiautomatic centerfire rifle that accepts detachable magazines and has two or more of three features: a folding stock, a grenade or flare launcher, or a flash suppressor. The same law includes a 10-round magazine limit.
In the 2017 case Kolbe v. Hogan, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit ruled that "the banned assault weapons and large-capacity magazines are not protected by the Second Amendment." Four years later in Bianchi, a 4th Circuit panel rejected another challenge to the "assault weapon" ban, citing Kolbe, which reasoned that the guns covered by the law were similar to "weapons that are most useful in military service" and "thus outside the ambit of the Second Amendment." Even if that were not true, the majority said, Maryland's law would satisfy intermediate scrutiny.
In a dissent joined by three other judges, Judge William Traxler described the majority's opinion as extreme. "In concluding that the Second Amendment does not even apply, the majority has gone to greater lengths than any other court to eviscerate the constitutionally guaranteed right to keep and bear arms," he wrote. Contrary to that view, he said, the burden that Maryland's law imposes on Second Amendment rights is "considerable," justifying strict scrutiny, which requires that a law be "narrowly tailored to achieve a compelling governmental interest." Traxler had reached the same conclusion in a 2016 decision by a divided 4th Circuit panel.
In his 2017 dissent, Traxler noted that the guns covered by Maryland's ban "are commonly possessed by law-abiding citizens." Like Matey, he argued that the "balancing test" applied by the majority was "contrary to Heller." He noted that the majority ignored the "common use" criterion and made "no attempt to demonstrate that semiautomatic rifles have been historically prohibited as 'dangerous and unusual' weapons." He added that "Heller in no way suggests that the military usefulness of a weapon disqualifies it from Second Amendment protection."
Furthermore, Traxler said, "if the majority is correct that the semiautomatic AR-15's rate of fire makes it a weapon of war outside the scope of the Second Amendment, then all semiautomatic firearms—including the vast majority of semiautomatic handguns—enjoy no constitutional protection since the rate of fire for any semiautomatic firearm is determined by how fast the shooter can squeeze the trigger. Such a conclusion obviously flies in the face of Heller, which never mentions rate of fire as a relevant consideration."
Traxler noted that several of the "military-style" features that made certain guns intolerable in Maryland, such as telescoping stocks, pistol grips, and barrel shrouds, "do not make the firearms more lethal or battle-ready, but easier to use." And he argued that the majority was "patently wrong" in declaring that "these weapons are not even well-suited for defense of hearth and home."
Although supporters of "assault weapon" bans present them as obviously sensible, that impression quickly dissolves when you consider how the targeted weapons are defined. Such laws focus on functionally unimportant features, arbitrarily banning certain guns while tolerating many others that fire the same ammunition at the same rate with the same muzzle velocity. Their illogic makes it implausible to suggest that they pass any level of scrutiny, even a "rational basis" test that actually demands rationality.
In any event, the Supreme Court in Bruen made it clear that the relevant question is not whether a gun law passes a "judge-empowering 'interest-balancing inquiry' that 'asks whether the statute burdens a protected interest in a way or to an extent that is out of proportion to the statute's salutary effects upon other important governmental interests.'" The question is whether the law resembles historical antecedents that were generally viewed as consistent with the right to armed self-defense.
Concurring in Bruen, Justice Brett Kavanaugh emphasized that "the Second Amendment is not unlimited," saying it "allows a 'variety' of gun regulations." But before gun control enthusiasts surmise that such regulations surely include "common-sense" laws like Maryland's, they should have a look at Kavanaugh's dissent from a 2011 decision in which the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit upheld the District of Columbia's "assault weapon" ban. Kavanaugh noted that the D.C. law covered a "haphazard" set of arbitrarily selected guns "with no particular explanation or rationale for why some made the list and some did not." He concluded that the ban was inconsistent with Heller.
"There is no meaningful or persuasive constitutional distinction between semi-automatic handguns and semiautomatic rifles," Kavanaugh wrote. "Semi-automatic rifles, like semi-automatic handguns, have not traditionally been banned and are in
common use by law-abiding citizens for self-defense in the home, hunting, and other lawful uses. Moreover, semi-automatic handguns are used in connection with violent
crimes far more than semi-automatic rifles are. It follows from Heller's protection of semi-automatic handguns that semi-automatic rifles are also constitutionally protected and that D.C.'s ban on them is unconstitutional."
In a New York Times essay published today, Duke law professors Joseph Blocher and Darrell A.H. Miller argue that Bruen's historical test poses questions that may be difficult to answer and that different judges may reach different conclusions based on their interpretations of the evidence. Blocher and Miller are right about that, as illustrated by the clash between Bybee and O'Scannlain in Young. But Blocher and Miller's complaint about the "judge-empowering form of historical reasoning" invited by Bruen elides the even more judge-empowering form of interest-balancing reasoning that appeals courts typically applied in Second Amendment cases until now.
While historical evidence is sometimes equivocal or difficult to find, it still imposes a constraint on judges who might otherwise be inclined to uphold any gun law they personally view as appropriate. That sort of broad discretion is dangerous to civil liberties, which include the fundamental right to armed self-defense, even if many judges view it as an inconvenient obstacle to enlightened policy.
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Justice delayed is justice denied.
So how long until we can bear actual arms, like the 2nd Amendment clearly states, and not just the WMDs, like AR-15s, that the poorly educated know how to operate?
Yeah, because a bunch of leftist fags like you really know your way around weapons……….
My favorite recent Thomas quotes:
Clarence Thomas: Pimpin' ain't easy, but it's necessary.
Thomas: I said to that bitch, I said, "Bitch, you look like you could use a pimp." She said to me, "I already got a pimp." I said, "Sheeeeeeee-ittt! That ain't no pimp, he nothin' but a valet fo' hoes!"
Yo, T-Paine, what's goin' on with you and that ho?
Thomas: I had to send that ho back the other day, she been reckless eyeballin, carryin' on. She fine... but I said 'hey, you man is bonafide'. Real pimpin' legit... it ain't ego, it's just how we go.
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Clearance Thomas in that picture above looks like a deeply unhappy man with hate in his heart.
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ZING!
A racist would say.
Pretty sure the hate is yours. He probably goes to sleep with a big grin on his face, knowing that only did he legally do the constitutional thing, but he gave you leftists shitbags the finger in the process.
I love him for that.
I'm going to predict the lower courts will return the volley. Every day people are denied their rights is precious to these judges, justice delayed is injustice enjoyed.
The Court should get over its obsession with avoiding actually deciding things, and start deciding instead of remanding for reconsideration.
SCOTUS has done its job in these cases; remanding the other cases is the right thing to do.
Agree. Some decisions are better left to be decided by the states.
Interesting that you think "remanding to a Circuit Court" and "let the States decide" are the same thing. Might want to read up on our system just a bit more
I think it'll take several more cases decided by the USSC before the lower courts get the message, especially the 2nd and the 9th courts. It would be interesting to see Maryland's law overturned, as it would also invalidate laws in California, New York, New Jersey and several other states and put to rest the Democrats pet gun control hope. We'll probably never get fully to shall not be infringed but we may possibly get close.
And before he, Joe Fuckface, trots out here with his historically inaccurate and constitutionally inaccurate militia argument, I'll point out the very first use of the militia argument was utilized by the Arkansas Supreme Court to uphold an extremely racist law that forbid blacks, Amerindians and immigrants from owning firearms, as they couldn't serve in the State Militia at the time. Like every gun control argument this one has its roots in blatant racism.
Not to mention grammatically inaccurate.
*barf* on Joe
Good job. You make a great historical argument for regulating who can and cannot own a gun.
So you think minorities shouldn't be allowed the same rights as whites?
Of course, he’s a Prog, so racist by nature.
The entire platform of the modern democrat party is based on blatant racism. And Marx.
It also says well regulated. None of the regulations are stopping you from owning a gun. When I read the 2nd it does say to keep and bear arms, giving everyone the right to carry. Bear in this case does not mean keep. If it did the 2nd would read to keep and keep arms.
Well regulated meant in working order dipshit.
Also, I'm not sure what the fuck you're actually arguing? Are you saying the court was correct to vacate these decisions? If so, that is what I stated as well. I went further and stated the lower courts will ignore this ruling and it'll take more rulings by the USSC before they get the message.
Sort of. Not only good working order but supplied with an adequate amount of ball, powder etc for immediate use if needed. Numbnuts freedom asshat has no idea what he is talking about
When the guns allowed are limited to pop guns, then the intent of being prepared to repell tyranny is defeated. In 1939, in US v Miller, the SCOTUS ruled that for firearms to be protected under the 2d Amendment, they had to be useful by a militia, ie, that they had to be a weapon of war.
Yeah. I love when proggies quote Miller without understanding the ruling in Miller. Actually, under the lower courts ruling (since the USSC never ruled on merit, but rather remanded to back to the lower courts because they erroneously ruled shotguns weren't suitable for militia duty) the ban on automatic weapons and other weapons of war were likely unconstitutional going by the militia clause argument. If we went by the Miller decisions precedence, we'd be more like Switzerland than like we are today.
It says the militia is to be well regulated. It absolutely does not say that the right of the people to keep and bear arms is to be well regulated.
And even then, well-regulated at the founding meant 'well-trained and effective', not subject to regulation.
Semi-serious question, would a qualifying marksmanship test score and annual proof of range time count as "reasonable gun control" for a carry permit.
It further reads shall not be infringed. The first clause is an explanatory clause, not a definitive clause. So, the answer is no. As the first clause doesn't create a standard but rather explains one of the purposes of the amendment. Which is clear from the author's own writings on the subject.
And certainly not subject to the legislative and regulatory whims of anti American Marxist traitor trash.
Additionally what criteria would you use? Most police are actually terrible shots, as the standard is extremely lax. The military is a bit more stringent but not excessively so. You'd be surprised at how low the standard is, for example the basic standard for Army rifle qualification is only 23 hits out of 40 shots.
And 16 out of 30 for pistol.
Although, that 23 out of 40 is for random pop up targets at ranges varying from 50 to 300 yards. Unless they’ve adjusted that in the last 30 years.
I actually hit that 300yrd with iron sights. Now i doubt i could see that far. Me and a couple other guys did well enough we got a ride back in a Huey instead of walking like the rest.
"It also says well regulated..."
That bit of sophistry's been worn out long ago. Fuck off.
They keep bringing up the same debunked leftist cliches like it’s new and clever. I’m truly embarrassed for them.
Good. We need Constitutional carry nationwide. Way past tired of all this shit.
I’m not sure why we tolerate progressives anymore. Their antics stopped being cute a very long time ago. They should t be in charge of anything and should also be subject to regular and ongoing corrective beatings until they learn their place.
Traditionally the founders had no problem confiscating guns and ammo or regulating who could own a gun and later law enforcement had no problem making you turn over your gun to enter the town.
At least come up with rational, valid excuses for your decisions!
When exactly did the founding fathers confiscate firearms? The only instance I can see was during the revolution when they took guns away from Tories, before the Constitution was written. As for your argument about guns being taken away at city lines, you might want to study history again. They forbid the wearing of guns, but didn't take them away. They also didn't exactly enforce the rule if you carried concealed, which just about everyone did. Additionally, looking at frontier history as an example of constitutionality is a pretty big fucking stretch. Frontier lawmen were not known as bastions of constitutional law. Maybe it's you who lacks rational or historically accurate arguments. Fuck, you win the prize for the most ironic user name because you obviously don't believe in freedom.
“ War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.”
Progspeak.
No, everyone did not carry concealed weapons in those days. Most were farmers and most did not have pistols, let alone shoulder holsters or derringers. You must be thinking of the Prohibition era - easy mistake to make.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
BTW those regulations only referred to belt guns. Long arms were still allowed. As for carrying concealed, you didn't need a shoulder holster to carry concealed, most tucked a pistol behind their belt, it was so common that they coined a phrase for it "belly gun". Additionally, many men wore long coats, or dusters, and would tuck pistols into the oversized pockets of their coats. Also, derringers were fairly common, as were short barreled pistols, either purpose built "pocket pistols" or revolvers with the barrels cut down. Colt, Smith and Wesson, Remington and others built purpose built pistols that were extremely popular. In fact, Colt started offering their pocket pistols in the 1840s, and Smith and Wesson a first two pistol models were pocket pistols. As for what farmers and ranchers owned, many did own sidearms in addition to their shotguns or rifles, in fact, demand for pistols in .44-40, the same caliber as the Winchester '73, was so high that Colt began offering their peacemaker in that by 1875. Additionally, many surplus cap and ball revolvers from the civil war we're available, and very cheap, converted to fire the .44 rimfire (aka .44 Henry, which both the Henry rifle and the Winchester model '66 were also chambered in) or the .44 Russian/S&W. A new Colt went for about $25, but a converted cap and ball went for $10 or less. The S&W model 3 also went for about half the price of a Colt. Again, Joe Friday shows his ignorance on the subject of firearms.
And it wasn't just on the frontier that people carried concealed in town. It was fairly common in urban centers, such as NYC, and even for women. Many pocket pistol models were built in smaller calibers specifically for women. Additionally, many specialty guns existed, such as cane guns, and even ring guns. The market for concealable pistols was actually probably larger in the latter half of the 19th century than today.
Additionally, the word derringer came to mean any small, concealable pistols, and didn't necessarily refer to the manufacturer. Some "derringers" were even small revolvers, and sometimes even referred to short barreled pepperbox revolvers and similar weapons. Several companies offered "deringer" style pistols, and they were quite successful.
Additionally, the popularity of pocket pistols and deringers wasn't limited to the US, they were also extremely popular in Europe.
In fact, the Earps all were armed with concealed pistols during the OK corral, they weren't wearing belt pistols, but carrying pistols in the pockets of their dusters. Wyatt Earp was carrying a short barreled S&W model 3 .44 Russian.
I’m guessing he thinks that Little Bill Daggett was a real lawman and that ‘Unforgiven’ was a historically accurate retelling of actual events.
Actually the British Coercive Acts, from 1773 an 1774, which allowed the British to confiscate guns were a major cause of the Revolution.
Yeah. Pretty sure the Battle of Lexington and Concord occurred specifically because the British sent a large force to Confiscate arms and munitions (which they didn't find much because the countryside had been warned and hid them) and that the British force was nearly wiped out during the retreat, by the same arms they didn't find. If not relieved or if the relieving commander had not decided to turn east towards Charlestown, and continued south, it is very likely the British force would have been defeated if not wiped out.
Thank you for relating that tale of responsible individuals taking responsibility to protect themselves from oppressive British overlords who looked at taxation without representation as the right kind of democracy for the slave class.
No surprise the slaves rebelled, just read the list of grievances in the Declaration of Independence. And note how it reads like a list of the grievances of workers today.
I think firearms were a secondary concern of the British. What they were most interested in was the powder magazine. They rightly concluded that without powder all the firearms were useless
Citation needed
What the fuck? Did all the trolls get muted so much they went out and made new socks?
That's as bogus as the claim that you couldn't own cannons.
"Traditionally the founders had no problem confiscating guns and ammo or regulating who could own a gun and later law enforcement had no problem making you turn over your gun to enter the town."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
I think the “correct” answer is that blanket magazine regulations are unconstitutional. But a limit on magazines in a carry gun could be defensible.
I think assault weapon bans have been previously upheld as merely cosmetic. But because they are cosmetic they should be overturned under the 1st amendment. They are intended to block a form of expression.
SCOTUS vacates the U.S. Constitution for [WE] mob rules!!!
Seriously, just stop. You’re not doing your position any favors with your shrill constant ranting.
Although I am disappointed in the remedy the plaintiffs received (unrestricted concealed carry licenses), I take solace in the majority opinion saying that concealed carry is the only manner of carrying that can be prohibited.
And I am greatly relieved that the justices did not even entertain the NYSRPA legal argument that Open Carry can be banned in favor of concealed carry because New Yorkers are on a different "wavelength" from the American people who enacted the 2nd and 14th Amendments.
I don't think folks have quite grasped the magnitude of the burden the Second Amendment "one-step test" places on the government for challenges under the Second Amendment.
Under the new one-step test. if the challenged law simply prohibits or restricts the keeping or bearing of arms (conduct protected by the plain text of the Second Amendment) then it fails.
If the law is about the type of arms that one can "keep and bear" or where those arms can be borne (such as sensitive places) or otherwise involves delimiting the bounds of the Second Amendment right then the burden lies with the government to prove that the gun law is consistent with American history and tradition.
A faithful application of that test entails that very few gun laws will withstand a constitutional challenge.
Given that my California Open Carry appeal, Nichols v. Newsom et al., is fully briefed, argued, and under submission for a decision, we should not have long to wait. My lawsuit excludes firearms it is not legal for me to possess under both state and Federal law. It excludes all schools and government buildings. Given that hunters are exempt from both the loaded and unloaded Open Carry bans, and hunters are not prohibited from openly carrying a rifle, shotgun, or handgun down Mainstreet California or within 1,000 feet of a K-12 public or private school, it would have been difficult enough to make the case that anywhere a hunter can carry a firearm is a "sensitive place."
My lawsuit also explicitly excludes persons who are prohibited from possessing firearms under California or Federal law.
Not forgetting that prohibited persons would not have standing to challenge California's bans on openly carrying loaded and unloaded firearms because they cannot be punished for violating them.
In my opening brief on appeal, I wrote, "There are many, many laws which severely restrict and prohibit where a firearm can be possessed and who may possess a firearm which Plaintiff-Appellant Nichols explicitly did not seek to enjoin, not because they are constitutional but because of the practical limitations of civil rights lawsuits."
The Supreme Court in NYSRPA v. Bruen eliminated those practical limitations. If you can be punished for violating a gun law then you can challenge each and every one of those laws in the same lawsuit.
And the burden to prove that the law does not violate the 2nd/14th Amendments lies with the government.
Well I have to admit my initial reaction to your assertion that there must be a right open carry was wrong, since concealed carry also fulfills the right to bear arms.
But after a little thought there has to be as much of a right to bear long guns in common use as revolvers and pistols, and it's not a reasonable restriction to require a long gun be concealed from view.
So I guess you are right, open carry is a right, but I'm sure CA, NY, etc will still require permits and all the other hoops they can manage to require people jump through.
Kazinski, by statute, long guns are not concealable firearms. And although a concealable firearm (e.g., handgun) is one with a barrel length of up to 16 inches, a handgun ceases to be concealable in a pocket or beneath a coat well before it approaches that length.
New York State does not require a permit to openly carry a loaded rifle or shotgun in public. New York State does not ban the Open Carry of handguns. New York City does ban Open Carry but that ban is an administrative ban. There is no criminal penalty attached to openly carrying a handgun in New York (city or state) if one has a license to carry the handgun concealed.
New York's merits brief alluded to this, and if they hadn't gotten cute by arguing that the 2A applies everywhere except where one is likely to encounter another human being then the remedy SCOTUS chose might have been different.
Security guards notwithstanding, California does not require a license to openly carry long guns in public. Nor is a license required to openly carry an unloaded antique handgun in public. A license is required to carry a handgun concealed, loaded or unloaded, antique or modern. And if one resides in an area where PC25850 applies (carrying a loaded firearm) then it is a crime to carry a loaded, concealed handgun in one's home.
The long guns must be unloaded if within 1,000 feet of a K-12 public or private school, and unloaded antiques if beyond the 1,000-foot gun-free school zone (that's right, modern long guns inside the zone are legal but antiques are not and the reverse outside the school zone).
There is a bill in process (SB-918) that makes it a crime to merely possess a long gun in gun-free school zones. One cannot even transport an unloaded long gun, fully enclosed in a locked case or trunk of a car through the GFSZ without committing a crime if the law passes.
Given that my lawsuit challenges the current restrictions on carrying rifles, shotguns, and handguns within 1,000 feet of a K-12 public or private school, Governor Brown and Attorney General Bonta (the sponsor of the bill) must be absolutely certain that I am going to lose my lawsuit.
I pointed out in my oral argument that a few states treated handguns that are easily and ordinarily carried concealed as dangerous and unusual weapons. NYSRPA v. Bruen says they are not.
NYSRPA held: There is a right to carry firearms. That right includes handguns. That right includes small, concealable handguns. The only manner of carry that can be prohibited is concealed carry.
A few morons, including the head of the Volokh Conspiracy, claim that NYSRPA said it is constitutional to ban all Open Carry of all rifles, shotguns, and handguns. How an Open Carry ban passes the new "one-step" test they don't say.
We should know fairly soon what the 9th circuit court of appeals thinks about that given my California Open Carry appeal is once again under submission for a decision.
Actually, the Bruen decision is a major game-changer with regard to how the lower courts have to decide these cases. The Opinion explicitly held that the two-step process had one step too many, and also, and arguably more importantly, banished the entire concept of "tiers of review" and "means-end scrutiny" from the context of second amendment cases entirely.
Eliminating means-end scrutiny stops cold any argument that a challenged law or regulation promotes any government interest, no matter how compelling. It is simply no longer a considerable argument that any federal judge may even hear now.
Millions of dollars worth of lawyers' billable hours making arguments against the Heller and McDonald decisions just went up in smoke here. They fought hard to treat the second amendment much like the first amendment, with some squishy standards and interest balancing tests, and SCOTUS tossed all such analogs out with a beyond-strict-scrutiny standard, indeed an almost absolutist one. Indeed, they dropped a nuclear bomb on that entire idea.
I personally think that SCOTUS got angry at lower courts defiance at its Heller and McDonald decisions, and came down hard on them, in a not-so-nice and collegiate manner.
"weapons that are most useful in military service" and "thus outside the ambit of the Second Amendment."
That decision just shows how dishonest 2nd amendment foes are. For years gun grabbers said, and many still do, that the 2nd only protected the right to be armed as part of a militia, e.g. military weapons. After Heller shut that down, and added a right to self defense, they try to impute that into a total erasure of a need to be armed in the unorganized militia.
The clear story as shown by Miller and Heller is this: a) the 2nd amendment protects a pre-existing common law right to be armed, especially for self defense; b) Congress made sure militia service was a component of protecting that pre-existing right when they drafted the 2nd, inorder to fulfill their article 1 responsibility to arm the militia.
Kazinski, a common law right entails that it is preexisting. Some rights are created by the constitution, others are created by statute, and some grew out of the body of law. Other rights, such as life, liberty, and property exist independently of all of those.
Some rights are created by the constitution, others are created by statute, and some grew out of the body of law
No rights are created... they exist and need no-one (other than self) to exercise. They existed long before anything was written. Some individuals exercise their rights. Most folks go around begging permission.
"...Some rights are created by the constitution,..."
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
But if anybody can get a carry permit just by not being a criminal, how can local officials do tradeable favors for the well-connected?
Just a matter of time after Scalia wrote the Heller legislation from the bench - which upended 200 years of precedent - and the GOP packed the court by stealing 2 seats from populary elected presidents and gave them to a two time loser who has never been selected by voters. In fact, the GOP has won 1 popular vote for president - the guy who makes the SC appointments - since 1988. 1988! 1988!!! And that guy was an incumbent who in war time who had not won the vote to become an incumbent.
No wonder the court is dysfunctional and so out of step with Americans. The GOP Senate majorities have not represented most Americans since 1996 when it did by about .1%
It will take time but Americans will wake up and the GOP will go away or start appealing to Americans again..
What meds are you on? I want to make sure I never take them.
Joee Asshole, slinging more bullshit.
Fuck off and die, Asshole.
No, your kind are the ones on their way out. It’s just a question of how much pain and loss you must suffer before you comply and leave America forever. You have no place here. You’re just a subversive territorial resident. Just like all your fellow travelers.
This court - and the GOP - is not only at war with more than half the country, but against the future. I guess that's what you might get with religious nuts.
Keep arming a murderous population that can't even keep it's kids safe? No problem.
Force women to be brood chattel? No problem
Stymy our ability to counter an existential problem who's evidence is already becoming obvious? No problem.
Fight society's ability to counter public health threats because "freedom". No problem.
Past generations rose to the occasion and the threats. This one sits on the couch whining about their 'rights" as individuals and fuck everybody else and the country and the world. No wonder the young are being radicalized.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Eat shit and die, Asshole.
Our kids are unsafe because of YOU. I’ve explained this multiple times. The problem is that you don’t actually care about kids. You just want to disarm patriotic Americans so you can enslave them.
I'm going to have that pic printed in large format for my dining room.
"NY leaders vow new gun limits after Supreme Court ruling"
https://www.valdostadailytimes.com/news/national_international/ny-leaders-vow-new-gun-limits-after-supreme-court-ruling/article_da315881-5ad2-59f5-ab11-d8aecfc009e1.html
Can these assholes be impeached for passing laws they know full well are unconstitutional?
I agree with this article https://reason.com/2022/07/01/scotus-vacates-4-decisions-upholding-gun-control-laws-whose-constitutionality-now-looks-doubtful/?comments=true#comments
The only person more verklempt than Tony is Joe Freitag. My goodness put down the soy products and get a fuckin' hold of yourselves! The vast majority of women who want abortions will still be able to get them and law-abiding citizens who were previously denied their 2A rights will be able to exercise them without having to beg some useless bureaucrats for the privilege. There are very little practical effects of these SC decisions, you're too overwrought dude.
maybe that's a good news