You're Wrong About Disinformation
People believe and say things that aren't true all of the time, of course. But efforts by public officials to combat them may well make things worse, not better.

Humans get stuff wrong. We do it all the time. We're biased and blind and overconfident. We're bad at paying attention and terrible at remembering. We're prone to constructing self-serving narratives after the fact; worse, we often convince ourselves they are true. We're slightly better at identifying these distortions in others than we are in our own thinking, but not by much. And we tend to attribute others' mistakes to malice, even as we attribute our own to well-intentioned error.
All of this makes the very concept of misinformation—and its more sinister cousin, disinformation—slippery at best. Spend 10 minutes listening to any think tank panel or cable news segment about the scourge, and it will quickly become clear that many people simply use the terms to mean "information, whether true or false, that I would rather people not possess or share." This is not a good working definition, and certainly not one on which any kind of state action should be based.
People believe and say things that aren't true all of the time, of course. When false beliefs influence the outcomes of major elections or, say, decision making during a pandemic, it's reasonable to consider ways to minimize the ill effects those false beliefs can create. But efforts by public officials to combat them—and tremendous confusion over how to identify them—may well make things worse, not better.
The battle over the appropriate response to disinformation boiled over in late April, when the Department of Homeland Security announced the creation of a Disinformation Governance Board. There appears to have been astonishingly little thought put into how the public might receive such a declaration, including the board's rather Orwellian moniker and its equally evocative acronym: DGB.
Several panicked clarifications by Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas later, the board appears to be a relatively small-scale operation focused on an odd assortment of topics, including disinformation originating from Russia that might impact the next U.S. election and the dissemination of false information about U.S. immigration policies by border smugglers. This understanding of disinformation as false information purposely incepted for sinister ends by foreign agents is likely the least controversial formulation of the concept.
Still, as an open letter from Protect Democracy, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and Columbia University's Knight First Amendment Institute succinctly put it: "Disinformation causes real harms, but the Constitution limits the government's role in combating disinformation directly, and the government can play no useful role at all in the absence of public trust. The announcement of this Board, housed in a Department with a checkered record on civil liberties and without clarity and specificity on its mandate, has squandered that trust."
"The board does not have any operational authority or capability," Mayorkas hastened to reassure CNN's Dana Bash. "What it will do is gather together best practices in addressing the threat of disinformation from foreign state adversaries, from the cartels, and disseminate those best practices to the operators that have been executing in addressing this threat for years."
If those operators include the social media companies, as seems likely, then the next logical question is to wonder what they are supposed to do with this helpful government guidance and how it might be perceived in context.
There are many, many ways to be wrong. In the United States, nearly all of them are protected by the First Amendment. So far, most efforts by the politically powerful to combat misinformation have approached free speech concerns with some degree of circumspection.
During his remarks at a summit on disinformation and democracy, sponsored by The Atlantic and the University of Chicago's Institute of Politics, former President Barack Obama was careful to say that he understood the limits on state action, even as he advocated transparency laws and other measures: "I am close to a First Amendment absolutist," he said. "I believe in the idea of not just free speech, but also that you deal with bad speech with good speech, that the exceptions to that are very narrow." Even better: "I want us all, as citizens, to be in the habit of hearing things that we disagree with, and be able to answer with our words."
But there's a reason the announcement of the Disinformation Governance Board was greeted with such a clamor: The public is increasingly skeptical that officials will honor the limits of constitutional protections for speech, and increasingly aware that the status quo has moved toward censorship by proxy.
Nina Jankowicz, who was tapped to run the DGB, appeared to have a more flexible view of the limits of state power: "I shudder to think about if free speech absolutists were taking over more platforms, what that would look like for the marginalized communities all around the world," Jankowicz told NPR in April, shortly before the announcement of her new position. "We need the platforms to do more, and we frankly need law enforcement and our legislatures to do more as well."
At the height of COVID-19, President Joe Biden and his administration repeatedly made what it called "asks" of social media and search companies to remove content it deemed disinformation. Biden also accused social media companies of "killing people" by allowing the spread of anti-vaccine messages. (He later amended his remarks, telling reporters "Facebook isn't killing people" but maintaining that a small group of Facebook users spreading misinformation were: "Anyone listening to it is getting hurt by it. It's killing people.") White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki elaborated that the administration was "flagging problematic posts" containing "information that is leading to people not taking the vaccine," while calling for the platforms to institute such changes as downplaying certain content and automatically banning users who have been suspended on other sites.
Again, after having been accused of actual murder by the president of the United States, it seems likely those firms greeted those "asks" as something more akin to "demands."
A careful reader might also note that the accuracy of those "problematic" posts seems less central to the administration's thinking than the behavior they might occasion. That lack of clarity was echoed by Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, who has called on tech companies to collect and hand over data about "COVID misinformation," including its sources and its propagation through search engines, social media platforms, instant messaging services, and e-commerce sites. In an advisory on the topic, he recognized that he cannot compel them to do this. But the companies would hardly be engaging in wild speculation to wonder what consequences might befall them if they don't cooperate.
"Defining 'misinformation' is a challenging task, and any definition has limitations," Murthy concedes. He favors a definition that relies on "best available evidence," but he acknowledges that "what counts as misinformation can change over time."
The most notable recent case study of this phenomenon is guidance from public health officials about mask efficacy and best practices around mask wearing over the span of COVID-19. Under Murthy's understanding of "misinformation," the same post noting the weaknesses of poorly fitted cloth masks would have gone from being legit information to problematic misinformation and back again over the course of the pandemic.
The notion that a government-codified understanding of the "best available evidence" should be the standard for identifying misinformation demonstrates a spectacular misunderstanding of both free speech and the process of scientific inquiry—and a troubling lack of humility.
The problem is that governments are made of humans. And humans get stuff wrong.
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Wow.
Was it really that hard to come out against this stuff?
And this was the best you could do? You guys really should read the comments more.
This has been a full court press by the MoveOn crowd since Bush was in office. They have been dragging us into an Orwell novel piece by piece, to the clamoring roar of their base. And no, "covid response" is nowhere near the tip of the spear... although it is where they came out most publicly in their censorship calls.
This dates back to the founding of The Groundwork, a Friends of Bill company created to tie in to the back end of social media companies to manipulate information and get Hillary elected (along with other democrats).
How can you write an article about "misinformation and disinformation" and leave off the most important part? Remember the campaign to impeach Trump? The one you so rabidly supported? The one based on, yes, a disinformation campaign run out of the Clinton organization and then the Obama white house and ultimately the FBI and CIA director's offices.
Remember, the "misinformation" they were publicly fighting was actually "information about a plot to first win an election with an October surprise that was a lie, and then information about efforts to cover that lie up, and then information about that lie being used to target members of the Trump campaign with false criminal charges".
This is where the "battle against misinformation" really took off. And Reason stood with the censors who were trying to use a one two punch of censorship and misinformation to overturn an election.
Remember the "misinformation" Trump spewed about his "wires being tapped". Remember how you ridiculed him? The press was unanimous, including little Reason magazine. Trump was spreading lies and misinformation. Except it was true. And the Obama administration was moving to try to frame people in the Trump campaign and incoming administration for crimes. An actual misinformation campaign. One you guys each personally cheered.
How did we get to the point where Biden thought a Ministry of Truth would have popular support? Go look in the mirror. When even the flagship libertarian magazine threw in with them in promoting lies over truth for political reasons, including supporting moves to have miniature "ministers of truth" running fact check boards for Facebook, Twitter, et. Al.
Remember how we all howled at the appointment of the notably dishonest star of gamergate as a minister of truth for Facebook? Remember how you guys at Reason said it was no big deal? A good thing, even? Remember when they created partisan "fact check" groups, supposedly to promote the seeking of truth, but actually to push partisan talking points? Remember how you said it was either a conspiracy theory or no big deal? Remember poo-poohing claims of shadow bans on social media?
Remember pretending that there was no coordination between the DNC and all of the major social media platforms when they all banned Alex Jones on the same day... supposedly independently? And they all banned the same 4 other people that same day? Remember how you laughed at the suggestion that there was a larger coordinated effort underway?
Remember how you said there is no slippery slope? Remember them coming for the kook who sells nutrition supplements by spouting conspiracy theories, and you said nothing, for you were not a kook who spreads conspiracy theories?
Yeah.... every step of the way to Big Brother and the ministry of Truth, Reason Magazine stood with the Censor General. Even after the bad orange man left, inertia kept you guys from being able to say anything about the growing collusion between the press, social media companies and the government and democrats.
No... only after the Biden Administration creates a literal Minister of Truth to tell the social media companies what to allow, what to promote and what to ban... only after the public backlash has said "enough!" ... only then does Reason's editor step up to the mic.
And this weak tea is all you can muster?
Assign an intern to read coverage and editorials about this effort to control information right here in the HnR commentariat. I don't know how you missed it, but Pravda would blush at the level of control the US media is under. Why do you think they are so desperate to control the spread of "misinformation" on the internet?
Let's just look at the small stuff. One little thread.... the DNC and their media partners decided that race was going to be the weapon to get rid of Trump after the Russia lie failed. Remember? The NYT news editors promised their staff they would come up with something, and a couple of weeks later, the 1619 project was born.
And then the small stuff. Look at Jussie Smollett. He perpetrated an obvious hoax. But every major news outlet ran with it... and ran with the "proof of Trump's racism and his racist supporters". Not one major news outlet expressed skepticism. But online? Oh, that was different. The backlash was immediate. Random people on social media immediately began pointing out obvious, laugh out loud implausiblities in his story. It took a long time for the press to come around. And even now they insist on the "truthiness" of the story. And in the interim, Facebook, YouTube and Twitter quietly downplayed voices calling him out. Videos got pulled as "hate speech". Youtubers got demonitized. Tweets got hidden. Posters got temporary bans.
And unlike the UVA rape story in Rolling Stone where Robby Soave immediately pointed out the obvious flaws in the story that should have stopped it long before publication. Reason said nothing. Well, nothing as a group, although several individuals were happy to call people who question the story racists. Because of course. I mean... all the fact check sites said so. All the press said so. It was Misinformation!
Except it was the obvious truth. And the police didn't like getting maligned like that, so they investigated and proved the whole thing to be a hoax.
That tiny story shows where we are with this propaganda machine. A black nationalist mows down 60 white people at a Christmas parade after publicly posting that he wanted to kill white people because they are white.... spun as a Trump supporting racist anti BLM white supremacist for a few hours before the truth came out and the whole thing got memory holed. YouTube took down or demonitized videos discussing it. They promote "hate" or "violence". So, they gotta go. But that is fine. Because Google is a private company. So is Facebook. And Twitter. Unless Elon Musk buys it. Then it is the plaything of a billionaire and it must be stopped. The NYT is a private business. So is the WaPo (but not the plaything of a billionaire). So it is none of our business if they all are coordinated in controlling the national conversation - through DNC associated groups like MoveOn and directly coordinating with the highest levels of the federal bureaucracy... none of that is fit for us libertarians to worry out little heads about. No, we need to panic over the way Alex Jones was able to squirt around their control andncreat his own, unchecked empire.
I really don't get the mental illness that is gripping the left, including left-libertarians. When Trump called CNN fake news because they were literally promoting fake news at the behest of the Clinton and Obama machine, you guys uniformly declared him to be a wannabe dictator. That was proof of his authoritarianism. Calling a lie a lie is exactly the same thing as throwing journalists in jail for exposing the corruption of the dictator. Well done.
But now? They have banned even discussing so many issues. Even dipping a toe into the center-right social media scene will expose you to an entirely new vernacular that has arisen. People say weird things, like "the coof" or "an unknown virus of unknown origin", because any discussion of Covid 19 that is not a direct parroting of the party line will get you banned. Steven Crowder got banned from YouTube for reading the statistics on Covid 19 and the flu from the CDC website. They said it was misinformation because it contradicted the CDC. Heller would be proud. Orwell couldn't have written it better. Huxley would have said it was too "on the nose" to be believable.
And yet only Stossel has come to his defense. And even then, the fear of being associated with a center-right comedian left him offering several "I don't agree with this guy" throat clears.
Come on guys! The flagship libertarian magazine has to be the flagship freedom of speech publication. In every case, always, libertarians must stand up against this nonsense.
Although it may be too late, we should at least fight the good fight. You really don't want march willingly into the Brave New World, do you? Shouldn't we at least go kicking and screaming, dragged by our hair?
Damn, that was better than the actual article. Applause!
Indeed.
It really was. If this was still a libertarian magazine, Cyto's comment would have been an article here.
“You're Wrong About Disinformation”
What makes you believe that to be true?
Fuck off, Nazi.
What makes you believe that to be true?
You can’t prove your feeble Godwin disinformation.
I ignore your pathetic requests.
You are a Holocaust center and a vicious anti semite who is a booster for national socialism.
You are a literal nazi.
I have demonstrated irrefutable evidence that there was no holocaust. Certainly nobody here has ever refuted what you have obviously observed me say.
I have also provided irrefutable evidence of the global harm caused by adherents to Judaism whose religion is based on lying. Again, cite when anyone has refuted anything I’ve said.
I have never advocated national socialism, and you will never prove that I have.
You are a literal liar. This article on disinformation is about you.
Several people have refuted you several times. As you are a zealot, you cannot make logical connections on this subject. You are also clearly obsessed with getting rid of the Jews. Your forebear did a pretty effective job of eliminating some who were relatives from my mother’s side back in the 40’s.
Perhaps you would be more at home over at Stormfront or a similar Nazi oriented site?
Ted,
Your claims are empty lies proven by the fact that you cannot cite any link to where anyone has ever refuted what I said or where I have said what I deny I have.
I have never been refuted, advocated national socialism or killing Jews.
If I had, you could link to it. You can’t because I haven’t.
How’s that for irrefutable logic?
You are nothing more here than a bald faced liar. A Jewish shill for Godwin’s law and disinformation.
It’s actually been done a number of time. Then you rant and rave about how your obscure sources outweigh anything else and declare victory, when in fact your claims are decisively debunked.
I considered digging back through the last year or so of your threads hitting, but then I realized that would be a complete waste of time. The Holocaust as a fact has been litigated to death for decades. You already lost.
Case closed. So fuck off and head back to Stormfront.
Hahaha. Of course it’s a waste of time trying to prove that you’re not a lying waste of skin because that is exactly what you are.
The story has been “litigated” in nations where simply sharing the evidence that soundly refutes the holocaust is a crime. That’s every nation where the physical evidence exists and more. People are in prison in those nations for sharing the evidence that proves they are right.
There’s even a bill currently in front of Canadian parliament which will make it a crime there too. The Canadian Supreme Court has already ruled that truth can be hatred, a crime.
So much for justice, the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, meh.
What kind of “litigation” exists where the evidence of truth is a crime?
Only the kind that bald faced liars , like you, want.
To Christians, god in heaven is the spirit of truth, Satan, in hell, is the father of lies.
Jews holiest prayer on their holiest day is clearly a plan to lie.
Here is the Kol Nidre text.
“All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”
Most of the stuff written in the comments is better than the article. Reason's readership far exceeds the intellectual quality of the writers. That is why the writers hate the commentariat so much and refuse to come here.
Baily use to, but he got tired of being called out for always referencing himself, and being wrong most of the time
For at least the last five years, I just read the first paragraph of the article then skip to the comments. And the only reason I read the first paragraph is to get the context for the comments. Reason.com died long ago of TDS and all that's left is a wretched zombie husk feeding off waning life force of other terminal TDS cases.
Of course it is. Reason articles are shit anymore.
You're far too kind to Reason
I should add- not criticizing your writing there, which is excellent.
It's scathing, yet you're as generous as possible to Reason.
Really a condemnation of this publication.
Steven Crowder got banned from YouTube for reading the statistics on Covid 19 and the flu from the CDC website. They said it was misinformation because it contradicted the CDC.
Sorry but I frankly don't believe this claim. My hunch that if he did get banned, it was for something worse than merely "reading the statistics".
Your apriori beliefs on something you admit you have no claim to must be right.
Youre an idiot jeff. Crowder has a few strikes. One of them is for covid statistics. He often appeals and gets them overturned by threatening lawyers.
But no, your belief in the benevolence of big tech takes precedence over documented facts.
More like Jeff's belief in the benevolence of big nanny state, and his need to make everyone comply with the narrative.
Here is the story by the way dumbass. It was for stating claims counter to the official numbers.
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/youtube-removes-steven-crowder-video-050215366.html
Many many people have questioned the covid death numbers. That is what he got a strike for.
Jeff didn't believe the claim, even though it took a single google search to check. Now he will run away and hide.
And he doubles down even after the link. The first 5 results were from pretty biased sources using the term "racist crowder" on the headline and they said the same things regarding why he was banned. But jeff wouldn't even believe those biased sources. His feelz and a priori biases are all he needs.
You can find the episode at rumble jeff. But just like you refused to listen to some of the most cited doctors in the US on Rogan, you won't bother to find out facts here either.
Youre intentionally ignorant jeff.
You can find the episode at rumble jeff.
Do you have a link?
I said YOU could find the episode on rumble where ehe also streams his casts.
Are you intellectually curious or not? I provided you the article and you disbelieved that as well dumbass.
I looked on Rumble, I didn't see it.
Do you have a link?
You didnt look very hard. Look at the date of the article. Work backwards.
Do you have any links supporting your supposition?
I did look. I couldn't find it.
If you could provide a link, it would be helpful.
You've already established a habit of not actually doing what you claim you would do here. Such as the doctors at Rogan which you continue to belittle despite being shown their resumes.
So fuck off.
“A link! A link! My feeding trough for a link!”
More sea lioning from Jeffy.
Translation: you don't have a link either.
I found it in under a minute once I bothered to look. Rumble has a search feature. It isn’t hard to search ‘Stephen Crowder banned’.
I'm not doubting he got banned for something.
I am doubting the precise reason given for his ban. Cyto claimed it was for "reading the statistics". Your article claims that the video "claimed it would uncover all the lies about Covid and the “liars who told them,” which is different than just "reading the statistics".
My hunch is that he did something purposefully inflammatory so as to provoke a reaction, and then use the reaction to boost his own popularity. Because that is the pattern that he and other right-wing media darlings have engaged in before.
You are doubting something you have no information about because your biases take precedence over facts. Sounds about right.
4D sea lioning.
Quantum sealioning. Jeff and White Mike can sealion in ways where their wave function collapses upon observation.
You can go see for yourself.
He literally read the statistics directly off of the CDC website that contradicted what the CDC was saying. He got banned for contradicting the CDC. Even though it was literally the CDC contradicting the CDC.
It was comical. Comedy gold, in fact.... if it wasn't for the fact that it is real and arbitrary and straight out of a Heller novel.
He won't. Just like he refused to listen to the Rogan podcast and still dismisses it even after being given the resume of the doctors on his show.
You can go see for yourself.
Do you have a link?
Just admit you are wilfully ignorant lol.
Quit sealioning Jeff. You know that they're telling the truth, and that your insinuation that he was banned for something else is dishonest garbage.
I'd like to be the judge of that for myself.
You would not accept a claim from me at face value. Why should I accept yours?
Do YOU have a link?
You have nothing to support your position. Literally nothing you ignorant shit weasel.
Yes. Yes, I do happen to have a link.
If I show it to you and it reaffirms exactly what Jesse, Cyto, Briggs, Nardz, Brian and I have all said, do you promise not only to stop sealioning, but to also stop fifty-centing here?
Bet it took you about a minute to find. About what it took me as I had a wrong date.
Oh ML, he will NEVER do that. No matter what he says. In addition to lacking any sense of portion control, Jeffy has no integrity or honor.
I also have a theory that explains his disturbing positions on open borders for pedophiles and his recently showcased pro grooming agenda. It is likely that Jeffy is himself a pedo… excuse me, a ‘minor attracted person’. But an incel version of one that is, thankfully, too weak and scared to act on his malignant impulses. This also contributes to his binge eating and morbid obesity.
This is why he favors these positions. As a few steps in an agenda for his leftist friends to eliminate age of consent laws and legalize pedophilia. So he can victimize children under the protection of the democrat party.
Oh good Lord. I never disputed the possibility that Cyto might be right. I simply want to judge for myself.
And since I don't "sealion" and I'm not a fifty-center, then of course I promise not to do those things that I wasn't doing anyway.
So, where's the link?
Fuck you, Ted. I'm not a pedophile. That is a disgusting accusation.
Where do you people get off on this level of cruelty?
"And since I don't "sealion" and I'm not a fifty-center, then of course I promise not to do those things that I wasn't doing anyway."
That's a complete fucking lie.
This little series of posts is sealioning, and nobody copy-pastes DNC talking-points straight off of ActBlue emails like you do without being paid.
Since you can't be honest about what you do I'll ask you to promise this: If what I and Jesse, Cyto, Briggs, Nardz, Brian, Ted, Ecoli, Minadin and Earth-based have said is proved by the link, do you promise to fuck off for ever?
Of course not. I have every right to be here, just as you.
Why do you want to silence me? Sounds like you are insecure in your own beliefs.
And once again. I don't discount the possibility that you all are right. Maybe Crowder really was banned from YouTube for nothing more than "reading the statistics". I am skeptical of the claim, yes, but it could be right.
What is the real problem here? That I don't accept Cyto's claim at face value? Why should I, especially for one that appears as ludicrous as banning someone for merely "reading the statistics"?
If his claim is incorrect, it doesn't necessarily mean he is guilty of deception. He could be just mistaken.
So that's fine, you are not going to provide a link to the video that got Crowder banned so that I can judge it for myself whether it really was for "reading the statistics", or (as I suspect is the case) for a more substantive violation of YouTube's policies. I guess we'll just never know what the actual reason is.
Jeffy, you have stated here in these forums that you favor unrestricted travel to and within the US for known sexual predators. You also recently argued vigorously against Florida legally restricting educators from grooming small children.
That you are a pedophile isn’t an accusation. As I specifically stated it to be a theory. So you now need to apologize for accusing me of saying something I obviously didn’t.
Jeffy: I don't agree thats true but I'm not familiar with it.
Everyone: Go look it up
Jeffy: Fails to look it up but proceeds anyway to make an argument he already admitted he had no clue about....
I honestly tried to find the link of the video that got Crowder banned. It's obviously not on Youtube, and I couldn't find it on Rumble. I saw that the video is on Crowder's subscription site, but I'm not buying a membership to his site just to watch this one video. I found a text page where he presents his side of the story. But no freely-available video it appears.
If you have a link I'd like to see it.
Your "hunch" is disinformation. Off to the gallows with you.
No one gives a fuck about your ‘hunch’.
He does. In his post modernist world his biases are truth.
Notice he didn't provide one citation for his own a priori assumption but continues to demand citations from others.
Very true. He’s such a little bitch. I always picture him as a fat, nerdy, effeminate college kid. Although he has to be much older. I’ve noticed that he never references any details of his life. Which must be miserable. I can’t imagine anyone tolerating his presence for more than few minutes without beating him savagely.
Jeffy likely has no friends, and no family that will speak to him. I feel great pity for any restaurant server that has to wait on him and put up with his tedious bullshit.
Well, if you're incredulous, that's scientific fact
Remember that time Lying Jeffy said he’d never listened to Joe Rogan’s podcast and then a couple days later he had a very strong negative opinion of him?
Like The Big Guy would say: God love ya, Cyto.
Very good screed, Cyto- and I largely agree with it. However:
"And unlike the UVA rape story in Rolling Stone where Robby Soave immediately pointed out the obvious flaws in the story that should have stopped it long before publication. Reason said nothing"
I think this is unfair. The Smollett thing dropped right near the whole Convington thing. But even then, they reported on it the day after, noting that there were discrepancies in various reports. And then as soon as the police decided to flip on their investigation, Soave was reporting this and pointing out that Hate Crime statistics are messy nonsense, and that does include hoaxes.
I think it *is* fair to point out that Reason always gives the benefit of the doubt to Left leaning narratives and needs cold hard facts to support the Right. For example, within a day or so, Soave was defending the Covington kids. Why? Because he could actually see the video, and judge the facts himself. But he was initially silent on Smollett because there were no facts for him to review- just statements from the police and unsourced rumors. He won't speculate on it, he just waits for facts. Around 3 weeks later, when the police named Smollett a suspect- only then does Soave reveal that in private conversations, folks on the left "shared [his] doubts". Those were doubts he never shared with his readers until it was an official conclusion that Smollett was full of shit.
This is not to say that Reason hasn't taken "misinformation" from the left seriously. It is clear that they are uninterested in talking about the Russia Collusion hoax. It is obvious that they are uninterested in talking about how private companies are increasingly acting as enforcers for the Government.
However, I am saying that often when people jump in and declare that Reason "never said anything about...", it is worth while for those people to actually look back and confirm their memory. (I too am guilty of remembering every time Reason was "wrong" and forgetting when they agree with me). Misrepresenting (intentionally or otherwise) what they have said doesn't help the case, it undermines it.
I would say the Rittenhouse narrative they somewhat pushed is more damning since the entire video there also existed in a matter of week. Pieced together by people on the internet. And even then they refused to stand for self defense. Even questioning the judgment at the end.
A friend of mine is a recently retired Judge. If the Rittenhouse shooting would have happened on our County, he would have been the Presiding Judge. When I spoke to him after the verdict, he stated that the trial was politically motivated. If it would have appeared in his Courtroom he would have dismissed the charges.
with prejudice.
While your friend is probably correct and almost certainly legally justified in his opinion, I am glad that it played out the way that it did.
- We got to see the media / leftist narrative fall apart in every detail.
- We got to see how his actions were justified because each of the men he shot were in the act of attacking him. The one that survived admitted it on the stand even!
- We got to see the jackass prosecutor (Littlefinger) make an ass of himself almost daily, and in one instance, point a weapon at the jury (an actual crime, unlike what he was prosecuting).
- We got to see a judge that wasn't taking any bullshit.
- We got to see the media lose their minds afterwards
Now, we would not have seen any of that had the judge just thrown the case out as bullshit, except arguably the last one. The left/media was going to lose their minds anyway. But since there was an actual trial with arguments and evidence and testimony, we can now point back to that and ask where the fault is in the reasoning or the judgement, instead of letting them get away with pretending that it's some political cover-up.
BTW, almost 20 months after those riots, I'm still hearing media say that Rittenhouse shot and killed 3 black guys.
It’s just a shame that all of it was at the expense of this young man. He didn’t deserve any of it. I’m fact, his actions likely have, and will save lives. As his first kill removed a dangerous sexual predator from this earth.
That is all true. It was for our benefit, but at his expense.
At least the legal settlements will help. I hope he manages to bankrupt a few leftists.
I think it *is* fair to point out that Reason always gives the benefit of the doubt to Left leaning narratives and needs cold hard facts to support the Right.
I would say that rather, they tend to give the benefit of the doubt to traditional establishment media outlets. Which is understandable to an extent.
And honestly, in my view, right-wing news outlets are almost entirely garbage. But if you think I'm wrong, what is, in your view, an example of one that you honestly trust?
In your view leftist narratives are king no matter how many false stories maonstream sites produce.
I would trust any ‘right wing news outlet’ over the Marxist propagandists you champion.
I don't go anywhere for my narratives. When I get linked to an article with information in it I read it. WSJ is good. Epoch Times is more edgy. Washington Examiner is interesting for the fact that they are the only right-leaning establishment focused on Beltway issues.
Pretty much all of the "established" sites have shown themselves to be garbage this last 4 years. I mean, for fucks sake, look at this lunacy from the Washington Post of all places:
https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-issues-correction-stealth-edit-scrubbed-false-claim-taylor-lorenz-report
Three corrections on one article, and one of them was a stealth edit.
I don't go anywhere for my narratives. When I get linked to an article with information in it I read it.
So how do you decide upon what goes into your news link aggregator?
Pretty much all of the "established" sites have shown themselves to be garbage this last 4 years.
No one is perfect, but I don't think it's fair to call them all garbage. Everyone makes mistakes. So IMO it is not fair to judge anyone by a standard of perfection. I think a better standard might be, if you read the stories, do they generally follow good journalistic practices? Do they give context? Do they try to deliver multiple sides of the story? And most importantly from my perspective, do they deliver news in a manner that leads the reader to a fair perspective on the issue, rather than a slanted one that is deliberately chosen by how the article was written?
“I think a better standard might be, if you read the stories, do they generally follow good journalistic practices? ”
“I think a better standard might be, if you read the stories, do they generally follow good journalistic practices? ”
I have no interest in being drawn into trying to defend “my” sites vs “yours”.
If you would read that linked page you would see it was an example of poor journalistic practices. Not only did the reporter fail to get a comment from all the people she was posting about (and when they do seek comment it is a post on instagram an hour before they publish). But then she lied about it. And then they stealth edited when called on it. And issued several corrections when called on it again.
This is not the first time Lorenz has done this nonsense. And even reason had a bone to pick with her regarding her article on the DGB.
It’s garbage reporting just as it was during Covington and Smollett. All garbage.
But they are garbage, and objectively the enemy of the American people (not because of their treatment of Trump, but rather because of their close incestual relationship with the government in general and the IC in particular.)
Done any hunting with your 9mm rifle lately?
In fairness to both Soave and myself, I have consistently called him the only libertarian voice at Reason, right here in these very pages.
And in fairness to everyone else, that is pretty weak tea. He listened to the vitriolic feedback here and cut back on the "to be sure" qualifiers. He has been the only one willing to take on campus scolds and fraudulent left wing narratives. That should not be enough to count as "the libertarian".
Nick is, of course, a pretty consistent ideologue. But he is not that active any more. He seems to have been exhausted by the struggle.
I kind of miss the 'to be sure's' tho . . .
Robby was also initially all in for the "credible allegations" in the UVA case until he got tore a new ass in the comments and another journalist came forward with the discrepancies.
And he was all in on the “credible” Blaise-Ford.
He’s still the best writer here hands down.
" really don't get the mental illness that is gripping the left, including left-libertarians. When Trump called CNN fake news because they were literally promoting fake news at the behest of the Clinton and Obama machine, you guys uniformly declared him to be a wannabe dictator. That was proof of his authoritarianism. Calling a lie a lie is exactly the same thing as throwing journalists in jail for exposing the corruption of the dictator. Well done."
Alinksy approves.
Seriously thanks for all of that Cyto. Best writing I've seen at Reason in years.
Come on guys! The flagship libertarian magazine has to be the flagship freedom of speech publication. In every case, always, libertarians must stand up against this nonsense.
When the primary goal of your Rock & Roll band is to be respectable, you've already lost.
And unlike the UVA rape story in Rolling Stone where Robby Soave immediately pointed out the obvious flaws in the story that should have stopped it long before publication.
The only part I disagree with. Robby did point out flaws but not in exactly a 'Stop the presses!' manner, more of a 'Let's dig a little deeper shall we?' manner. He, certainly in a timely manner, came around, but there were plenty of others saying "She claims she was raped through a boken glass coffee table without an emergency room visit?" at first blush.
Even then, well after it was obvious that it was pure fabrication. He preferred to use "woman who was raped on a UVA campus" to "Jackie Coakley" almost exclusively for months, if not years.
Absolutely stellar comment. As many have stated, the comments here are worth the visit alone. I usually skip the articles.
Reason just didn't stand with the Russian narrative, they helped push it with mild admonishing after the FISA abuse of Carter came about. They ignored Flynn. They've ignored Sussman evidence. They propped up Mueller. And not a single Mea culpa since.
They did more than ignore Flynn. Reason board member Ken White slandered Flynn as a traitor for months while calling everyone who pointed out the obvious FBI misconduct in his case conspiracy theorists. White never once so much as retracted the things he said about Flynn or admitted he was wrong.
I come to Reason for the comments.
Here here! Cyto - great response. Sadly, I doubt Reason Editors care much about actual Libertarian issues, or what actual Libertarians believe/discuss. It's 100% clear that nearly ALL Reason Editors are actually Progressives, with one or two issues where they slightly overlap with Libertarians.
While there are many examples, I've give primary example: J6 protests. Where is the article discussing non-violent offenders being held, without bail, for months? Seriously, non-violent offenders being charged with misdemeanors; getting held in jail without bail! Reason - crickets. Or, how about a story related to the police murder of Ashlii Babbitt? Or, the cover-up of the other police murder during the J6 protests? Reason - crickets.
Not months any more. We are approaching a year and a half for some of them.
Yep. And, crickets from Reason Editors.
If they were truly peaceful protesters they would have been more like BLM with arson, looting, assaults, vandalism and murders; then Reason would be out defending the protest if I'm reading the disparate coverage right
Orange Man Bad. What don’t you understand?
For fuck's sake, you're in a cult dude. Donald Trump's feelings aren't the only thing that matter in the world.
And...Tony shows up to smear his feces on his Orange Man voodoo doll.
Yeah, he’s the one in a cult……..
"What it will do is gather together best practices in addressing the threat of disinformation from foreign state adversaries, from the cartels, and disseminate those best practices to the operators that have been executing in addressing this threat for years."
For example, if the Russians plant a fake laptop purportedly belonging to a Presidential candidate's son with a white supremacist computer repair shop owner revealing crazy conspiracy-theory nonsense about wrong-doing, we can quickly quash such disinformation,
Precisely.
To quote Sheldon Cooper - "sarcasm?"
In Jerryskids case, but not in the Reasonistas.
Poe's Law has been raped sideways since 2020.
Goebbels would be so proud.
Both Goebels and the Pravda editorial board are looking on from beyond the grave with envy. They could only dream of having this level of control.... and they could shoot people who dissented.
The current situation is worse. They can silence dissenters without firing a shot. In fact, by creating and encouraging Cancel Mobs, they don't even have to do anything. Citizens will do it for them.
At least if they're shooting people, the violence is brutal and public. This is silent and insidious. Nobody gets killed. They just get unpersoned.
Yes. And if the media were state run, everyone would know it and know not to believe them. This media claims to be free and gets the credibility of a free media while operating as a state run media.
Maybe Reason is just scared to get shut down for wrongthink and wrongspeak, so they're just toeing the line enough to avoid attention.
If that's the case, they're cowards and that's even worse than being woke.
^^THIS!^^
Progs need regular beatings to show them their place.
Alinksy, too.
Yeah, you guys haven't exactly covered yourselves in glory on the misinformation issue. You bitched up and toed the party line, like every other major media company, and it was a major disappointment. From a publication like Reason- or, what Reason used to be- I would have expected to see much more investigative work, much more questioning of the narrative, much more skeptical treatment, particularly of covid, Trump/Russia, BLM, and the election. What I got was a rehash of whatever WaPo and NYT were publishing, and occasionally, a mealy-mouthed, half-assed objection riddled with "to be sures" and "both sides."
Even now, when all that "misinformation" has clearly been demonstrated to be generally true, you still can't break from the pack and take a stand for truth. All we get is this weak sauce article, weeks later, after the DGB has been suspended, and after guys like Joe Rogan did all the heavy lifting for you.
This pathetic weakness and cowardice is the reason why the Mises Caucus was able to take over the LP- because, just like the GOP and the Dems, you've let your constituents down time and again. You're falling victim to the same problem the GOP had in 2016. You're not delivering. You've stopped fighting for the little guy. You let the little guy get abused, maligned, and unpersoned while you were sitting around, discussing Big Ideas and congratulating each other on your intellectualness.
If you need a clear, stunning example, cities burned for months. People were killed, people lost their livelihoods, citizens were left unprotected and at the mercy of the mob, and lawlessness and fear reigned for months. And you STILL went with the "mostly peaceful" canard.
Look at yourself in the mirror, Reason, and figure out who the fuck you are. You abandoned libertarianism in any real sense, and you abandoned the average Joe when you did it, because that's who libertarianism is for: the regular guy who needs someone to stand up for his rights and fight for him when he's being abused. It's not an intellectual pursuit so you can be a novelty at cocktail parties.
This * 1000000000
Good post. Jeff will never understand this. He prefers to stand up for the "elite globalists" as the little guy continues to have his rights violated.
that's who libertarianism is for: the regular guy who needs someone to stand up for his rights and fight for him when he's being abused.
I agree. But that standard applies to EVERY "regular guy".
This includes the small business owner whose property is destroyed by a mob. This ALSO includes the protestor who had nothing to do with the mob's actions and does not want to be falsely lumped in with the mob's actions.
But when the riots were happening in Summer 2020, what was the consistent line that we heard here from the 'usual suspects'? It was only sympathy for the former. How terrible it was that their property was destroyed. And it WAS terrible. But when it came to protestors being unjustly lumped in together with a violent mob? Then the sympathy ended. We were told that protestors who didn't want to be lumped in with the violent mob shouldn't have been there in the first place. We were told the innocent protestors actually were guilty, since they "gave cover" for the violent mob's actions.
If you actually think libertarianism should stand up for the rights of "the regular guy", then you need to apply that consistently, and not just for people whom you perceive to be your tribal allies.
And by the way. Who decides what is the proper extent of a person's rights? How should claims of dueling rights violations be handled? What precisely does "aggression" mean in the NAP? There is an entire body of scholarly work that attempts to answer these questions, and these works are written by the intellectuals that you deride. You don't like eggheads in ivory towers? Fine, then you tell me how you would consider these issues. I'm willing to bet that the answer is something along the lines of "Second Amendment Solutions".
This includes the small business owner whose property is destroyed by a mob. This ALSO includes the protestor who had nothing to do with the mob's actions and does not want to be falsely lumped in with the mob's actions.
Okay. So what? That fact doesn't excuse reason cheering on the mob or lying about the protests really being violent.
Doesn't lying and nonsequiters ever get old? Just a little?
Jeff thinks the protestor dressing in all black and blocking police from the violent actors also dressed in all black on day 99 of riots has nothing to do with the riots.
Oh, but he thinks non violent protestors on J6 are insurrectionists who deserve 5 years in jail for no violence on their part.
There we go, Jesse is right on cue to prove my point. Wearing black to a protest is equivalent to throwing Molotov cocktails at a courthouse. They're all the same!
You do NOT believe in liberty for the "regular guy" when it's a tribal opponent in the crosshairs.
Jeff, they coordinated with violence rioters to wear the same clothing to hide violent actors from police. That is what blac block does. This not day 1 but day 100. They knew what they were doing. They advertised it on Twitter. They told supporters what to wear. They organized moms to stand at the front to stop police from going after rioters. They blocked intersections to disallow police from stopping arson and violence. They were not protesting when they act on coordination with violent actors you fuckong moron. They are accomplices.
Read Nancy Rommelman's reporting. She details how the protests were organized and how they coordinated with media outlets to get only approved coverage by only approved journalists talking to only approved activists and showing only approved footage.
Once again, Jesse.
Wearing black to a protest is not equivalent to destroying property in a riot.
Talking shit on Twitter is not equivalent to destroying property in a riot.
Donating to a bail fund, for whatever purpose, is not equivalent to destroying property in a riot.
Even blocking police from arresting rioters is not equivalent to destroying property in a riot.
You can't and won't see this. They are all the same in your point of view because they are your tribal enemies and therefore don't deserve even a modicum of individual dignity or respect for their rights as the "regular guy".
Why do you so easily dismiss the open coordination of these people? Is it true willful ignorance or just straight up lying?
Is talking shit on Twitter different than destroying property in a riot? Yes or no?
Again you miss the key word of coordination. Why? Are you willfully obtuse?
Building those strawmen os the most work you’ve done since reaching for the tv remote.
He is building it when the evidence of my words are already present and I've called out his previous use of the same strawman.
Answer the question Jesse.
Is talking shit on Twitter different than destroying property in a riot? Yes or no?
You're the one that changed the subject, Jeffy.
Everything you say here is a lie. Everyone knows you're here to lie and shill. Everyone hates you.
It's time for you and your organization to fuck off.
Answer what questions jeff? Your reframing of my comments? I have been very fucking clear here.
Stop your shit weasel ways.
Nope you can't answer, because it's all a part of a conspiracy. "They told people to show up and burn down buildings!" Oh, well, then if anyone shows up, it's PROOF that they are a part of a conspiracy! Isn't that right Jesse?
Let me be clear one last time shit weasel. Open support on Twitter is fine.
Coordinating with violent groups like antifa to show up to a protest in the same outfits as violent actors, using Twitter to doocridnate blocking intersections to impede the police, setting up bike barriers to impede the police, and stopping responses to violent acts is coordinating with those violent acts shit weasel.
I honestly don't know how I can explain this more simply. The above things were done willingly and publicly.
Jesse, let me put it as plainly as I can where I am coming from.
Are you willing to judge each INDIVIDUAL person for his/her own INDIVIDUAL actions?
You know who is responsible for some act of violence? The person who actually committed the act of violence. Not everyone else standing around. Even if they are all wearing the same color of clothing.
But what I am getting from you, is that someone who showed up wearing black, is ipso facto a member of a violent conspiracy to riot and destroy property. Even if that person did nothing violent at all.
If you want to prove that someone is a member of a conspiracy, then you have to prove that that person acted under the direction of the conspirators. You don't get to reverse the burden of proof - "they showed up therefore they are a part of a conspiracy". That doesn't work.
So, are you willing to judge INDIVIDUALS by their own INDIVIDUAL actions with respect to these protests? Yes or no?
No, Jeffy, aiding and abetting a crime is also a crime.
Jeff, he is literally talking about INDIVIDUALS coordinating on Twitter etc. to do those things as cover for the INDIVIDUALS who were committing violent crime such as assault and arson.
Jesus Christ stop being so willfully obtuse.
Ever see the movie "The Thomas Crown Affair"? The one where the thieves hire people to dress the same way and to be at a certain spot at a certain time, to provide cover for the thieves?
That's what happened. I live in a small town North of Pittsburgh. June of 2020 we get word that a group of "BLM" are coming to protest in our town. This wasn't a rumor. An unmarked State Police vehicle was following them. Most of the local stores shut down. A bunch of us decided to meet them, we were armed. I was in the Town's square, where all of the sudden television news vans had shown up. One of the Producers' cell phone rang and she answered. She said "You don't want to come here. They are armed to the teeth." The State Police said that the busses bring them, got off the Interstate, turned around and went back they way the came. Other protests that I saw personally, had food and water ready for the protesters, coach busses and even medics. Somebody had to pay for and coordinate that.
Thanks for being honest.
Showing up to a BLM protest that turned violent is proof that everyone there is guilty of something. Got it.
Wow. You can't be honest here at all. Lol.
That’s not what he said, like at all.
Yeah, there was video of BLM/Antifa showing up in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho in buses and being met by armed locals. They got back on the buses and left.
If these are organic protests with no sponsorship, why do they need to be bused in from elsewhere?
The same thing happened in Coeur d’Alene Idaho around the same time. The locals were tipped off ahead of time and did the same thing. They were polite to the protesters, but made it clear things would fare poorly for them if started trouble. Like in your example, they got back on the bus and left in short order.
...but saying to go forth and protest peacefully is trying to overthrow the government...
If there's a coordinated effort to block police from arresting people, the blockers become accomplices and thus parties to the crime... so legally, they pretty much are equivalent.
No one here "cheered on" a violent mob destroying property. No one here denied the violence that did occur at the protests. Those are complete strawmen.
What I and a lot of other people objected to, were attempts to lump in all protestors AND rioters into one amorphous blob and to denounce them all as a "violent mob" that should be uniformly condemned.
That is because that was the right-wing narrative to be pushed by these faux 'libertarians' like Cronut who thinks that libertarianism ought to be standing up for "the little guy", but only when "the little guy" is a figure sympathetic to Team Red. When it's a protestor exercising his rights for a cause that Team Red doesn't like, then it's time for the collectivist denunciation of the entire whole.
No, what you and white Mike did was claim there were unmarked police vans attacking violent actors and that was wrong. You claimed throwing ice bottles and rockets at police was protest. You claimed dressing up in all black and helping violent actors disappear into crowds was protesting. You claimed violent peotestors shouting support of blm weren't actually blm, that as soon as violence occurred they somehow lost their membership. You and white Mike denied blm community leaders weren't violent even when caught on video doing violent asks asking for proof with membership cards. Despite local reporters knowing who the community leaders were and identifying them. You ignored 100 days of violence as no big deal, preferring to defend the movement you emotionally tied yourself to and ignored the violence that sprung from it.
Then you called every non violent actor on J6 who peacefully marched through the halls after waived in by police on the east side (violence was ok the west side tunnels) and cheered a woman being shot in the head for trespassing and pushed lying narratives of cops dying at the hands of protestors. Then applaud 5 year jail terms for non violent acts.
Basically jeff, you're a piece of leftist shit.
BLM is exactly the kind of organization that libertarians should be condemning. It's a violent, predatory organization that advocates for the wholesale destruction of constitutional governance. It preys on Americans' general desire to do right by their neighbors by manipulating language and coopting the idea that "black lives matter." It uses threats of violence to force people to make declarations of loyalty and support or face the mob. It collects donations from its members which its leadership uses to enrich themselves and their families, while providing almost no support to its professed cause.
It's a front for violent Marxists. But Reason jumped right on that BLM train.
They were openly calling for violence. Setting up bail funds for arsonists and those committing violence. They held back the police from arresting violent actors.
Jeff calls this peaceful.
They were openly calling for violence.
Isn't this called "free speech"?
Not when they join rioters to stop police from stopping the violence and arson you disingenuous fuck. They acted to supplement and aid violent actors.
How fucking retarded are you?
He’s even more retarded than he is fat.
Woah slow down there. That would be can't breathe levels of retardation.
“Isn’t this called free speech?”
This is an incredibly disingenuous dodge.
Whether you are free to speak or not, you must still take responsibility for your speech.
So these people are free to speak and the reasonable response is to take them at their word and say they are supporting violence.
And here is jeff about j6.
chemjeff radical individualist
February.9.2021 at 8:56 am
Flag Comment Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren't supposed to be.
BLM is exactly the kind of organization that libertarians should be condemning.
Wait wait wait, isn't that "policing thoughtcrime" though?
I mean, that's what I was told when the Mises crowd removed the statement condemning bigotry from the LP platform.
They openly called for and supported violence. They bailed our violent actors who often repeated the violence.
Sounds like "policing thoughtcrime" to me. After all, aren't there libertarians who are anarchists as well?
No it doesn't. Again. Keyword. COORDINATION.
God damn retard.
Jeffy is truly the enemy within.
"Sounds like "policing thoughtcrime" to me."
I bet it actually doesn't, you disingenuous fuck. But you're grasping at straws because that's what you get paid for.
People who violate the NAP are not libertarians whether they be BLM or anarchists. Asshole.
And once again you couldn't be more plain about what you really believe. The liberty of the "regular guy" does not matter when that regular guy supports BLM in any way whatsoever. That guy could simply be participating in a BLM protest because he is concerned about police mistreatment of minorities, and has no desire for violence, but guilt by association matters more than liberty for THAT "regular guy".
You doubling down on fascistic defense of supporting and coordinating with violent actors by calling them the regular guy is quite a tactic.
You have no desire to assign accountability to individuals for their separate individual actions. A person showing up to a protest wearing black is part of a criminal conspiracy with the guy throwing Molotov cocktails at a courthouse. You can't prove this, you don't really care, the guy's very existence at the protest is proof of the conspiracy, right?
I am in fact blaming individuals for coordinate with violent actors to empede the police so they can continue violent acts.
What don't you get here you lying fuck?
Jesse, Jeffy is with the rioters. He always has been. He’s 99.9% support with .1% weak admonition, and 0% condemnation. He’s not a libertarian in any way. No, he’s a global Marxist with wet dreams of a borderless world. Which includes a strange ongoing obsession for creating a society where sexual predators of children are unobstructed.
And yet he openly says cops should have shot people on J6 for trespassing.
No, I didn't. I even said that it would not be wise nor prudent for the cops to do so. You continue to make shit up about me.
They're not making shit up. People's memories here aren't as short as you hope.
I posted your comments in this thread jeff. You said the Capitol Police could have shot every protestor for trespassing. I posted your comment you lying shit weasel. Here it is again. The full comment.
chemjeff radical individualist
February.9.2021 at 8:56 am
Flag Comment Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren't supposed to be.
COULD HAVE, not "should have".
You have difficulty reading, don't you?
The phrase "could have" appears absolutely nowhere in the post of yours that was cited. Jesus fuck dude, take the L and walk off. Nitpicking other people's reading comprehension when you invented words that don't fucking exist in a quoted piece of your own text...
Those are the words you typed, you fascist fat fucking doughboy pedophile. Eat them up like your 18th morning Twinkie, or the meager jizz provided to you by your decrepit old idol.
Jeff. Thank you again for proving youre a leftist dumbass.
You claimed that I said that the police SHOULD HAVE shot the protestors. That is a lie. I did not say that.
Jeffy, are you willing to personally condemn antifa? Condemn BLM?
They weren't antifa or blm rioters, they weren't carrying their official blm antifa rooter club ID!
-white Mike, all of 2020
Pepperidge farms remembers them doing that too. Jeffy gives lots of cover to these people.
Bullshit.
I'm assuming this was Jeff. He knows nobody is talking about protests where nobody got violent, nothing was burned, and nobody got hurt, but he always wants to be dishonest.
If innocent protestors don't want to be lumped in with the mob, don't go where the mob goes. There could be some empathy for regular protestors in the beginning, but once it became clear that these "protests" were fast becoming violent mobs, it's time to make a decision about what movements you want to be involved with, and how you want to be involved. If your organization is veing coopted by violent extremists, then you need to handle that, because if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck.
The fact is, Reason hid behind the same sham excuse that Jeff hides behind. They failed to acknowledge the rampant violence sponsored by and actively endorsed by BLM when they said things like, "Property destruction isn't violence," and "Nobody said protest was supposed to be peaceful," and "Fuck 'em, they have insurance."
If innocent protestors don't want to be lumped in with the mob, don't go where the mob goes.
You could not prove my point in a better way.
You don't actually support "liberty for the regular guy".
You only support "liberty for the regular guy" when he's a guy you are sympathetic towards.
That makes you a Team Red tribalist, not a libertarian.
Actually youre just proving you're a disingenuous leftist cunt.
They knew they were supporting violence. They openly advocated for it and defended it on Twitter.
They knew they were supporting violence.
How do you know this?
Who precisely are the "they"? The protest organizers? The leaders of a violent mob? Some rando on Twitter who has no association whatsoever to the protest?
You don't know, and you don't care. There mere presence is proof of a conspiracy, right?
Because they advertised the coordination on Twitter.
How simple are you?
As simple as his Marxist masters need him to be.
ONCE AGAIN you are unconcerned with actually trying to prove that any specific person was a part of some conspiracy. You blithely assume they all were because some guy on Twitter said so.
That is how you are not interested in protecting the rights of the "regular guy". You'll collectivize everyone you don't like into a blob and call them all a part of a conspiracy without bothering to respect any sort of standards of proof.
Where am I calling out a specific person? Again your attempt to reframe my statements is you trying to build a strawman shit weasel.
And by the way. You have a habit of doing this. You will engage in these little tirades that have the effect of distracting from the overall discussion, hoping no one will notice.
But in actuality, Cronut said, "If innocent protestors don't want to be lumped in with the mob, don't go where the mob goes." Nothing about anyone blocking the police or coordinating violent acts. Just being present with the mob, even while doing nothing wrong, is proof enough of guilt by association.
THAT is proof of the lie that Cronut, or frankly half of the right-wing posters around here, really give a shit about the liberty of the "regular guy" for anyone not sympathetic to their tribe.
I mean, that’s pretty sound advice in any aspect. It behooves any innocent person to distance themselves from a violent situation.
You know, like the people that entered the capitol building well after the door and windows had been broken.
You ready for violence, you fat fucking clump of cancer?
He should meet a violent end. Some kind of ironic death. At the hands of criminal illegals, or maybe rabid BLM/antifa rioters. Like something Rod Serling would have written.
It would be appropriate if an illegal immigrant child molester gutted him
The fact is, Reason hid behind the same sham excuse that Jeff hides behind. They failed to acknowledge the rampant violence sponsored by and actively endorsed by BLM when they said things like, "Property destruction isn't violence,"
Actually:
https://reason.com/2020/07/03/silence-is-violence-george-floyd-protests-arson-is-not/
In 2020, Words Are 'Violence,' Arson Is Not
The redefinition of the term diminishes actual victims of violence and trivializes why people are protesting.
https://reason.com/2020/09/11/there-is-no-defense-for-looting/
There Is No Defense for Looting
It is one thing to peacefully march against injustice, and quite another to burn down what others built up.
You are full of shit.
There could be some empathy for regular protestors in the beginning, but once it became clear that these "protests" were fast becoming violent mobs, it's time to make a decision about what movements you want to be involved with, and how you want to be involved. If your organization is veing coopted by violent extremists, then you need to handle that, because if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a fucking duck.
Once again: respect for the rights of the "regular guy" vanishes when that "regular guy" is associated with a movement that Cronut doesn't like. In that case, it's the "regular guy"'s fault for being associated with that movement in the first place. Who cares what that guy actually did. Guilt by association is enough to denounce him!
A movement that caused 2 billion in damages, 30 dead, hundreds injured and then set up bail funds to get violent actors arrested during their movement out of jail. Blocked police from arresting violent actors. Defended violence on social media. Called for more violence. Accosted diners in various cities. And on and on.
Yet you said j6 protestors deserved to be shot for trespassing. Lol.
J6 protestors were condemned for their violence. There weren't more calls for more violence from their leaders or the people who protested on J6.
That is not true of BLM.
You fail to distinguish between the protestors and the violent rioters. Purposefully, because you have no interest in defending the liberty of the "regular guy" when he's associated with a Team Red tribal enemy.
No I don't. I am being very clear above you lying shit. I'm specifically calling out those who coordinated and provided cover for violent actors dumbass.
You really are a lying fuck.
No, what you are doing is assuming that if a person shows up to this protest and wore black, that it was part of some criminal conspiracy that is no different than supporting violent property destruction itself. They are all lumped in together. That is what you did all summer of 2020 and that is what you continue to do now. And that is what Cronut continues to do even as he demands that libertarianism should stand up for the rights of the "regular guy".
I have now a dozen time discussed specifically those coordinating cover for violent actors, impeding police, bailing them out, etc.
How do you lie so easily?
No, he isn’t. Can’t you ever stop lying Jeffy?
No, what you are doing is ASSUMING that everyone who shows up to a protest is there as a part of some coordinated conspiracy to commit violence because some guy on Twitter said to do so.
Jeff where do I make that assumption? I have been very clear shit weasel.
You are assuming that because some people on Twitter tried to tell people what to do at the protests, that everyone who showed up at the protests were doing so at the instruction of those Twitter guys as a part of some criminal conspiracy. You don't even bother to think that someone could show up wearing black and not be a part of any sort of conspiracy at all. That is, you are refusing to recognize the rights of the *individuals* involved, instead lumping them all together as some conspiracy.
You keep claiming I'm assuming things. Which post are you talking about lying shit weasel?
Youre such a fucking dumb joke here.
How about this one?
https://reason.com/2022/06/04/youre-wrong-about-disinformation/?comments=true#comment-9527425
They knew they were supporting violence.
Who is "they"? The Twitter 'organizers'? The protestors who showed up? The ones who wore black but did nothing else?
That's the problem. You aren't differentiating between different people who did vastly different things. In your mind they are all guilty of "supporting violence" just the same.
For someone so autistically obsessed with pronouns, you'd think you might understand that they refer back to previously referenced nouns. Nowhere in Jesse's posts is there any ambiguity about whom he is referencing: the people who coordinated violence and violence-enabling subterfuge out in the open on social media sites, and then did so before the fawning lenses of national television cameras.
It's kinda like how you called everyone who appeared at the US capitol on January 6th a trespasser, even though most of them were encouraged by security and police personnel to enter the building whilst the doors were held agape. That's why a judge dismissed the case against one of those individuals who was charged with 5 crimes for walking into the capitol at the ushering of police and walking around for 10 minutes before leaving.
Yes. The people coordinating with antifa to impede the police knew they were supporting violence. Holy fuck jeff. Nice attempt there, but you are giving the game away yet again by ignoring the post.
Jeffy, every discussion with you is sealioned tortured bullshit. You twist, focus on semantics, or outright lie. You are thoroughly discredited here, and reviled by everyone except SQRLSY and Buttplug.
Go away.
Jeff, can you at least acknowledge that the people who got violent on J6 were routinely condemned by just about everyone on the right, including Trump, while Biden, Harris and the rest of the Democratic leadership made a big show of bailing out no shit violent actors?
2018 there was a 17 year old Black man shot by Police. There were questions about the legitimacy of the shooting. A couple days later I'm a a Pirate game. I decided to leave early. As I'm standing waiting to cross the street, there's a group protesting about the shooting. I asked one of them what they wanted and he said "Just a fair investigation." These were people from that neighborhood. As I was leaving he asked which way I was going and I told him. He said "Good. You don't want to go down to the bridges that crossed the river. There were four bus loads of protesters getting ready to block the bridges. By the time I got home, they had closed the exit from the stadium that I had come out of and Police were trying to clear the bridges.
Who bussed these people in? Who paid for their hotel rooms? On the news video I heard a lot of Philly and New Jersey accents from the bussed in protesters.
It was probably George Soros.
Nah, I musta been the Proud Boys.
The Nazi group lead by that multiracial fellow?
Ooo Ooo Now do J6 protestors vis-a-vis J6 rioter! You know just like you said above protestors lumped in with the rioters...I mean can you show where all the rampant destruction and everything was and how everyone there falls into the same category?
This from a guy who thinks anyone from Jan 6th should get shot for treason. Disingenuous asshole.
tell us your take on Rittenhouse... was he wrong to go to the protest with a gun... was he wrong to go - period?
Adam Kinzinger thinks so
You abandoned libertarianism in any real sense, and you abandoned the average Joe when you did it, because that's who libertarianism is for: the regular guy who needs someone to stand up for his rights and fight for him when he's being abused. It's not an intellectual pursuit so you can be a novelty at cocktail parties.
Bravo.
"It's not an intellectual pursuit so you can be a novelty at cocktail parties."
This should be tattooed on every Reason writer's hand.
Blather blather blather?
Blather. Blather blather, blather.
Blather BLATHER blather blather.
Don’t forget the Bushies! Remember when they told us that Guantanamo gulag was designed for “the worst of the worst” - so dangerous they couldn’t be imprisoned in a SuperMax prisons?
Since then, about 90% of “the worst” have been released without charge of any wrongdoing whatsoever. It turns out that the USA paid gargantuan bounties to tribal chieftains and war lords - we offered to pay money for anyone they falsely labeled an enemy.
Remember when we renamed a centuries old torture technique from the Spanish Inquisition as “non-torture”? Would DHS ban this type of falsehood?
This was the original mission of agencies like the Department of Homeland Security.
Literally every one of these "innocent guys" that we released went back to being terrorists.
"It turns out that the USA paid gargantuan bounties to tribal chieftains and war lords - we offered to pay money for anyone they falsely labeled an enemy."
The US paid hundreds of millions to remove local warlords competition for them.
Were they "terrorists"? Yes, but so were the guys fingering them.
I think it's funny some of you apparently still think Reason is a publication that acts in good faith rather than the disingenuous liar taking Party/establishment orders it clearly is.
But efforts by public officials to combat them may well make things worse, not better.
*Will* Will make things worse. One person can change their mind for free relatively instantaneously. The government *cannot* change its mind instantaneously for free. 100 people can, and do, effectively believe 100 (or more) different things that are varyingly true at virtually zero cost to both collective and the individuals. The government *cannot*. If humans were ants or liver cells or distributed network nodes bound to the same protocol, government *may* make *some* things better, but they are not.
Since when did the pursuit of 'truth' require Gov-Gun pointing???
Yeah; Just another excuse to pull out those Nazi-Regime Gov-Guns......
Yep, most people have no idea how to objectively assess and process knowledge, and are actually inclined to deliberately delude themselves for countless reasons.
The other side of the information coin shows that most people are equally inclined to deliberately delude others, again for any number of reasons.
For the most part, humans are clever apes, with just enough cognitive function to create and use distorted realities in their quests for status, gratification, and power.
You know, all of these complaints by certain individuals about how Reason ought to be more skeptical of "the narrative", would be more credible if those same individuals didn't habitually and uncritically adopt the right-wing narrative themselves.
Remember when the DGB was first announced? What was the right-wing media line? That it was a literal MINISTRY OF TRUTH. Orwell come to life. Never mind that no one really had any concrete evidence of what this new board was supposed to do. Never mind that a very similar effort occurred just a few years before under Trump and it didn't turn into a dystopian nightmare. Because the messaging from Team Red at that time was not to try to inform people, it was to try to scare people. They want you to be totally pissed off at Team Blue and so they write stories deliberately slanted in that direction in order to generate that type of outcome. That sounds great if you're a Team Red partisan, but what happened to skepticism, or truth-seeking?
Is the DGB a bad idea? Yes. Is it equivalent to Orwellian MINITRUE? No.
Remember just last week when Biden made an unscripted offhand remark about 9mm bullets and the Team Red media narrative immediately became BIDEN WANTS TO BAN HANDGUNS? That was a lie. He revealed what he actually wanted to do on Thursday - he wants to ban so-called "assault weapons", which is a complete no-brainer since that has been his position for decades now. But that didn't stop Team Red partisan media from twisting his words into something much more sinister. Again the purpose was NOT to try to inform you, but to try to scare you. To purposefully induce an emotional response.
Is banning 'assault weapons' a good idea? No. Is it the same as wanting to ban handguns? Also no.
And let's not even get into the rest of the bullshit that right-wing media has spun for years and years that certain people here are completely happy to repeat, while simultaneously complaining that Reason doesn't do enough investigative reporting to challenge the prevailing narratives themselves.
They don't want investigative reporting or truth seeking per se. They are totally happy with lies and misinformation as long as they support the right-wing point of view and trashes Team Blue. That is all this is: trying to get libertarians "back on the Team Red reservation" where they "belong" so that they can focus on what is most important, getting Josh Hawley and Ron DeSantis and Trump in power so that they can incite moral panic about imaginary pedophiles and the "scourge" of trans athletes.
If you want the rest of us to sincerely believe that you are interested in genuine skepticism and truth, then I would ask that you turn your skeptical gaze to all of the bullshit that's out there, not just whatever WaPo publishes that happens to be wrong. A good first step would be to not accept at face value anything that any partisan media outlet claims, because their entire modus operandi - as demonstrated above - is NOT to inform, but to purposefully generate outrage, and they do that through lies and deception.
Jeff defends DGB as a supposed powerless entity so it was wrong to be attacked lol. This despite his claims of it being powerless only claim from Myorkas after the DGB began being attacked. The truth there is no powerless entity in government. Their findings and conclusions are always used in some way to enhance governments power as either justification from other agencies or to grow the initial agency.
But jeff is an elitist who believes on the benevolence of government and sees no problem with taxpayer funded propaganda that he agrees with. This is because jeff isn't a libertarian. He is a globalist authoritarian.
Jeff isn't an elitist. He is too much of a loser for that. More elitist cheerleader.
He thinks he is part of the elite.
Jeff defends DGB
You waste no time getting your lies in. It only took the first three words of your comment.
Jesse, you are the biggest purveyor of right-wing misinformation and disinformation around here, when you uncritically accept and repeat right-wing partisan media stories. For once I would like for you to be just a little bit skeptical of the media that your tribe produces and to examine it with a critical eye that you would reserve for MSNBC.
Cite?
Because up above I just showed you were wrong. Was that misinformation?
You were wrong to ever disagree with him. So now he plays this willfully obtuse, sophist, game to annoy you and waste your time.
Maybe sit out for awhile?
Yes you did Jeffy. You’re always lying.
"Jesse, you are the biggest purveyor of right-wing misinformation and disinformation around here"
This from an actual paid shill.
Admit it Jeff, you're just mad that he handily refutes your talking points and gets your boss mad at you.
To be fair, a non indoctrinated teenager could refute most of his sophomoric post modernism and sophistry.
Typical Jesse:
Jesse: BIDEN DID SOMETHING HORRIBLE
Me: Well I am not sure about that. Could you provide some more evidence...
Jesse: WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING BIDEN???
More like:
Jesse: BIDEN HAS PROUDLY STATED ON NATIONAL TV THAT HE PLANS TO DO SOMETHING HORRIBLE
You: ACKCHYUALLY BIDEN ONLY SAID HE PLANNED TO CREATE AN EXPLORATORY COMMITTEE ABOUT DOING SOMETHING HORRIBLE AND ALSO DONALD TRUMP RAPES WOMEN WHILE FEEDING LIVE CHILDREN TO PIRANHAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Everybody else: Have you noticed that cytotoxic (dba chemjeff, de oppresso liber) is not only a total fucking shill, but also unbelievably bad at it despite 15 years of practice? Let us all throw out heads back and heartily laugh at him!
I posted his literal quotes of him saying he wanted to end gun sales.
Keep tripling down. This isn't ice cream. You can stop at any point.
he wanted to end gun sales
He wants to end certain gun sales. He wants to end sales of certain gun-related equipment. That is true. No one seriously doubts this.
This is not the same as wanting to "end gun sales" in their entirety.
Do you see the difference?
Are you willing to condemn Joe Biden?
I literally posted a quote of him saying 9mm pistols.
Just stop.
Finally muting you. Your tedious dishonest bullshit has wasted too much of my time.
I like it when he fails this hard and exposes his true self.
Dude!
He said you have to go fact-check some rando on Substack who has 11 subscribers, not worry about bit players like rhe NYT or WaPo!
They are the ones really running the country.... not NBC news. Not CNN.
More like "taking a critical eye to the stories produced by the largest cable news organization, Fox News, and their partisan allies, is at least as important as taking a critical eye to the stories produced by the 'mainstream media' such as NYT and WaPo, and their partisan allies."
More like defending democrats and biden at all costs.
I'll give Tony this much: he at least obsessively watches Fox News, lusting over the cherubic Tucker Carlson for whom he appears to have a particular affection. You have absolutely no idea what anyone on Fox News has to say about anything until you read the daily Media Matters email.
Your protestations would also have at least a gossamer hint of truth to them if your vitriol and impotent rage weren't reserved exclusively for classical liberal, conservative, and libertarian media to the total and complete exclusion of "mainstream" media. Before Trump eminent-domained that empty lot between your ears for his own personal use, you used to at least try to make such pretenses to objectivity by at least referencing reading materials that weren't exclusively on the unabashedly radical end of left wing, like Vox, Salon, The Atlantic, Mother Jones, and Rolling Stone. You sort of gave the game away when you stopped making those overtures. It's been nearly as fun watching you devolve into a gibbering bowl of Stalin's loose stools as watching sarcasmic lose his family and become an unhinged 60 year old welfare case.
I’m convinced Tony jacks off angrily to Tucker on a daily basis. Jeffy is probably walking it to Sesame Street, or Nick Jr. programming.
The DGB itself may have no "enforcement powers," but the federal agencies they share their reports with do.
Jeff's too stupid and inconsequential to be an elitist. He just thinks if he simps for them hard enough, they'll let him mow their lawns.
FatJeffy ain't gonna work THAT hard mowing lawns.
He gets breathless reaching for his next Little Debbie.
I hope you mean a small cake and not another kid from the orphanage.
Well ...
Debbie is a girl's name. Doesn't Jeff prefer little boys?
I made a comment here earlier about Jeffy’s likely perversion. He’s likely a pedophile incel. Not out of any empathy for potential victims,s, but overall fear of discovery. Can you imagine what would happen to an obese weakling like him in prison sent up on a child rape conviction? Plus, he has to be even more excruciating to deal with in person. He can’t help himself. The other inmates would probably torture and mutilate him endlessly.
Sounds like a plan.
Wow, thanks for making the point that we should be concerned. Establishing a Ministry of Truth , why do we need one? begs to be asked.
And have you been paying attention to Joey B and the gang? They actually do want to ban the ammunition that goes in a handgun. So yea sure relax they don't actually want to ban the gun though.
And have you been paying attention to Joey B and the gang? They actually do want to ban the ammunition that goes in a handgun.
What is the source for this claim?
I'm not saying at this point that I think your claim is either true or false, I simply want to decide for myself.
What the fuck. Youre still pulling this bullshit? You still don't get the most common weapon for 9mm is handguns?
Please continue to claim youre not a leftist shit.
Provide a citation to where Biden proposed banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
His statements from last weekend about 9mm blowing out someone's lungs. Likewise biden isn't the only democrat in office.
Fuck off shit weasel.
I'm the only guy that ever got passed legislation, when I was a senator, to make sure we eliminated assault weapons. The idea you need a weapon that can have the ability to fire 20, 30, 40, 50, 120 shots from that weapon, whether -- whether it's a 9-millimeter pistol or whether it's a rifle, is ridiculous. I'm continuing to push to eliminate the sale of those things.
Not a citation of Biden proposing banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
What the fuck jeff
I'm continuing to push to eliminate the sale of those things.
BUT GOOD UNCLE JOE NEVER SAID THE EXACT PHRASE "I AM PROPOSING A BAN ON THE AMMUNITION THAT GOES INTO A HANDGUN"!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM VERY INTELLIGENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BESIDES, WHERE YOU WHEN TRUMPUTIN L-I-T-E-R-A-L-L-Y TOLD THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THAT NAZIS WERE FINE PEOPLE AND DRINKING BLEACH CAN CURE COVID???!?!?!?!?!?!!?! HUHHHHH!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!
Why do you even engage with this half retarded sack of week of vaginal discharge?
So you need the wording to be that exact?
Fuck off.
"They said a .22-caliber bullet will lodge in the lung, and we can probably get it out — may be able to get it and save the life. A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body," Biden said.
Not a citation of Biden proposing banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
I added quite a few comments you pretend don't exist lol.
You are flailing. Don't fall on your back or you may never be able to get up.
Jesse-
Stop feeding the Troll.
He is fat enuff already.
https://youtu.be/v48apTLrSs8
Lol. I was at gymnastics with the kid. Exposing him passed the time.
Exposed Jeffy? Thanks for THAT mental image.
A "Glock with 40 rounds—a magazine with 40 rounds. And it's really a weapon of war," he said. "But I don't see any rationale to why there should be such a weapon able to be purchased."
Again, not a citation of Biden proposing banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
"But I don't see any rationale to why there should be such a weapon able to be purchased."
Do you understand your argument is becoming people should make their own weapons? Do you want his comments on ghost guns next?
"Why should we allow people to have military-style weapons including pistols with 9-mm bullets and can hold 10 or more rounds?"
Yet again, not a citation of Biden proposing banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
This is pathetic even for you. He is discussing gun ownership. Holy fuck are you retarded.
So you’re saying Biden is merely advocating banning the guns, and not the ammo?
Reason discussing semi automatics.
https://reason.com/2019/01/03/washington-redefines-all-semiautomatic-r/
“I’m going to do everything in my power in office or out of office to get those assault weapons off the street, which I have done once already,” Biden claimed. “And to get those clips that have multiple bullets in them not for sale, not be able to sell silencers, all those things.”
Yes handguns have multiple bullets.
One more time, not a citation of Biden proposing banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
Do you not know what the implications of not allowing those things for sale is?
Please keep aiming youre not a Democrat and not a moron.
I wonder if Reason pays him to to threadshit.
These responses are typical of you - you provide "proof" which is only tangentially related to the topic at hand but don't actually address the point. They are intended to deflect rather than to inform. You want to create an impression that Biden is hostile to certain types of firearms. Bravo! You succeeded, because it's true! But that doesn't actually prove the claim presented, that Biden proposed banning the ammunition that goes into a handgun.
He is discussing ending the sales of these weapons you fucking idiot.
You truly are a lying shit weasel.
By the way jeff. I do want to thank you for once again showing people what a dishonest leftist hack you are here today. You generally try to hide it better through limited misinterpretation, word play, distractions, and such. But today you once again made it oh so obvious what a leftist hack you are. So thank you.
Can you read?
The claim was, that Biden wants to "ban the ammunition that goes in a handgun".
None of your quotes says that Biden wants to ban the ammunition that goes in a handgun.
Let's take the first one:
The idea you need a weapon that can have the ability to fire 20, 30, 40, 50, 120 shots from that weapon, whether -- whether it's a 9-millimeter pistol or whether it's a rifle, is ridiculous. I'm continuing to push to eliminate the sale of those things.
Here, he wants to ban *weapons* (not ammunition) that has the ability to fire "20, 30, 40, 50, 120 shots".
Based on this quote, does he want to ban certain weapons? Yes. Does he want to ban "the ammunition that goes in a handgun"? No.
Second quote:
"They said a .22-caliber bullet will lodge in the lung, and we can probably get it out — may be able to get it and save the life. A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body," Biden said.
It's a silly statement because I seriously doubt a 9mm bullet can literally "blow the lung out of the body", but again in this quotation, he's not proposing to ban anything.
Third quote:
A "Glock with 40 rounds—a magazine with 40 rounds. And it's really a weapon of war," he said. "But I don't see any rationale to why there should be such a weapon able to be purchased."
Once again, he is proposing to ban a specific type of *weapon*, not "the ammunition that goes in a handgun".
Fourth quote:
"Why should we allow people to have military-style weapons including pistols with 9-mm bullets and can hold 10 or more rounds?"
ONCE AGAIN, he is proposing to ban so-called "military-style weapons". Not "the ammunition that goes in a handgun".
Fifth quote:
“I’m going to do everything in my power in office or out of office to get those assault weapons off the street, which I have done once already,” Biden claimed. “And to get those clips that have multiple bullets in them not for sale, not be able to sell silencers, all those things.”
Here he is proposing to ban "assault weapons", and "clips that have multiple bullets". Not "the ammunition that goes in a handgun".
That doesn't mean Biden is correct, that doesn't mean Biden's plans for guns are great, that doesn't mean gun control is a good idea, it only means that the claim wasn't proved.
Nothing you said here actually helps your bullshit in any manner.
He is literally talking about ending gun sales in those quotes.
Keep proving youre a defend biden and the left at all costs like a good little cultist.
Yes, we must be very, very, very, very, very specific and always use only the most charitable interpretation. Even though Biden was discussing 9mm ammunition as some sort of super-bullet that blows organs out of the human body (it's nice that you "seriously doubt" that mindlessly idiotic claim that could be refuted in 4 seconds of watching ballistic test videos on YouTube despite defending it to your dying breath), and called for 9mm weapons to be banned, and even though 9mm is the most common caliber for handguns in the United States by sales, we should not infer that he wants to ban that type of ammunition.
On the other hand, we can't afford to take chances when literal fascists who are literally racist and literally said that Nazis are fine people and literally asked the governor of Georgia to commit ballot fraud and literally admitted ON TAPE to serial rape come to power. Those were all clearly impeachable offenses that deserve no benefit of interpretation when our democracy is LITERALLY -- L-I-T-E-R-A-L-L-Y -- at stake!!!!
Jesse, he is dragging this out if intiely in a moronic exercise of splitting hairs over banning guns and ammo or just the guns. Like the difference matters.
But he doesn’t anyway. No wonder he’s so despised.
That list is long and distinguished. In his political "career" Biden has been in favor of every ammunition ban ever proposed. Glaser Safety Slugs, Black Talons, Hollow point ammunition, the so called "Teflon coated Cop Killer Bullets". I can go on an on. Recently I can't provide an internet link. Biden's handlers and the MSM either don't report it or they make it go down the "rabbit hole" too fast. I could probably go to a library in Pittsburgh and find some in the Printed copies of the Congressional Record.
Likewise 99% of pistols today are semiautomatic. Do you need the links from democrats talking about ending sales of semiautomatic weapons?
cytotoxic doesn't need any explanation what a semi is. He pops one every time Joe Biden drops another load in Depends.
His interview on May 31:
They said a .22-caliber bullet will lodge in the lung, and we can probably get it out — may be able to get it and save the life. A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body.
So, the idea of these high-caliber weapons is, uh, there’s simply no rational basis for it in terms of self-protection, hunting. Remember, the Constitution was never absolute. You couldn’t buy a cannon when the Second Amendment was passed. You couldn’t go out and purchase a lot of weaponry.
You know, all of these complaints by certain individuals about how Reason ought to be more skeptical of "the narrative", would be more credible if those same individuals didn't habitually and uncritically adopt the right-wing narrative themselves.
"All your complaints about the falseness of Russian Collusion narratives would hold more weight if you guys didn't adopt the right-wing narrative that Trump isn't a racist, Russian stooge." - chemjeff
radical individualistmundanely predictable collectivistDisinformation is free speech.
Free speech is absolute except in the narrowest circumstances where you are delivering a clear and imminent threat. And no misgendering someone is not a threat.
I like the article but it singles out lies . But "hate speech is not free speech" has been in vogue for awhile and is in in fact misinformation.
Hate speech is free speech.
Yes it is. In addition, all the government accomplishes by trying to suppress "disinformation" is give the people spreading it credibility.
It also furthers the agenda of people who place a curated, compassionate society, dedicated to assuaging the feelings of select groups, above liberty.
Compassion can be a wonderful thing, but coercing people to comply with officially defined criteria for "nice" is just fucking evil.
"Hate speech is free speech."
Speech no one dislikes doesn't need protection; what some call "hate speech" may well be true speech.
"Hate speech" = thought crime.
Thanks to reason we all know a lot about disinformation
This is all well and good... but we used to have a saying we would lean on at times like this: "the best antidote to bad speech is more speech".
If you were a friend of liberty, left or right, this was the go-to answer for any calls for censorship. How have we forgotten this. It is the "sticks and stones" of Civil liberties.
That's nice, but the paradigm doesn't fit anymore.
Without kinetic action, we lose everything.
Not to be too critical, but the paradigm as stated was never true. A more faithful interpretation of what Brandies actually said would be, "If the truth can be arrived at by speaking, more speech will eventually reach it. Enforced silence never will."
The specific paraphrase supports the notion, "The remedy to a signal contaminated with noise is more noise." which is clearly wrong.
I mean, I like the idea of more debate.
Unfortunately, the left has gone full psychotic totalitarian. Not only do they actively prevent debate and drown out reality with coordinated messaging campaigns, they're also now prone to completely reject indispensable proof.
There is no point debating them, they're unreachable.
Now it would be nice if we could make our case and they could make theirs then let the general pu lic decide, but they control too much of the scale to allow a fair accounting.
I just don't see any way this gets fixed w/o coming to blows.
They will not stop.
They must be stopped.
Stumble across it here frequently, the post-modern nihilism. There is no truth or objective reality and nothing means anything. If nothing means anything then I not just don't but *can't* have any moral obligation to refrain from shooting people in the face. It's not my default position. It's not a position I'm willing to accept. But if it's the only option, it's the only option.
I like this take... just one thing - the more noise is not necessarily true (though probable) but with it will come more or better defined signal (hopefully - maybe even probably)
[should have said 'stronger signal']
https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1533088686937612289?t=9y5NbRyWKZ3hmxne4ehgMg&s=19
I led the world to coordinate the largest release from global oil reserves in history, directed the sale of gasoline using homegrown biofuels this summer, and more.
These actions have already helped to blunt what would have been an even larger Putin Price Hike.
Lol, they're still going with Putin's Price Hike. It's so transparent and stupid. I hope they keep running with this.
https://twitter.com/TheTomGeorge/status/1532654722900865024?t=NUkHW1VmPkw5QE6nUvRmCA&s=19
Racism on Hawaii roads: Nearly a year after this “FCKBLM” license plate was recalled after our initial story, the owner is still refusing to surrender the plates after multiple warnings, and registration is now expired @KITV4 #BlackLivesMatter #BLM >> [link]
https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1533083902767550465?t=K_aL-hhQkmS4Vnw2sc90kw&s=19
2 year ago today- after a week on anarchy, a general collapse of law and order, 15+ dead, and billions in damage. @FBI agents kneeling to BLM/Antifa rioters
[Pics]
The real problem is the inability of the common person to think critically and take the time to do due diligence. The common misperception is that people need to be told what to think based on information presented by a particular source. I believe due to the amount of information available the public at large doesn't have the time or knowledge to check the veracity of it, this has created a regression of thought, almost medieval where the people flocked to a common source whom they considered an absolute authority on all matters.
My cynical view is that both technology and objective thinking, and other enlightenment foundations, like individual liberty and rule of law--law applied equally to individuals (and not groups)--advanced much faster than the ability of most people to truly understand and embrace them. The default understanding of existence for most people is still rooted in primitive, emotional "reasoning" and dedicated to equally primitive social status and tribalism. The fact that these are the stated goals and methods of modern progressivism, back up by major institutions, is frightening. And not at all surprising that these institutions seek to control information.
"Now I'm going to go rationally and unemotionally suck dear leader Trump's cock."
What's it like being totally and completely sexually obsessed by a 75 year old man and spending every waking hour of your day thinking about his spray-tanned cock knocking around the cavernous corridors of your boipussy, you pathetic fucking AIDS-riddled faggot? It's too bad Fauci didn't kill more of you with his public health fuckups when you first started spreading the physical manifestation of your degeneracy.
Thanks for proving my point, you TDS-deranged emotional, tribal fucktard. You should kill yourself.
The progressives got control of the institutions of enlightenment decades ago, and have systemically dismantled them to create an unenlightened populace.
They made the rules more and more complicated at the same time as making people less and less capable of interpreting the rules themselves. Then they positioned themselves as the "experts" that we need to help the poor, grubby masses understand. Oh, and there are different rules for the experts.
Look at the tax code. Your average person shouldn't need to hire someone to do their taxes every year. It should be easy. But it's not for many people, because they were poorly educated and the tax code is 9000 pages long. Look at covid. Your average person is so mathematically illiterate that they were incapable of analyzing their own risk based on the numbers, and they relied on the "experts" to tell them what was safe. And the experts lied to them. And the experts did everything they could to silence anyone smart enough to challenge them.
They're devolving us back to a feudal society, where the self-selected class of expert clerisy holds all the knowledge, and the rest of us grubby poors do what we're told and take what we're given. Look at the gate keeping at the nation's top universities. It's the rich children of rich people, sprinkled with hand-selected minorities, and some people who tried to buy their way in with hundreds of thousands in loans against their future. And the loans are from the government, who owns you and your future now.
I only partially blame the masses for their unenlightenment. Most of them were born into the beginning or middle of that unraveling. Technology SHOULD be making us better and smarter, but instead it's making us dumber and more venial.
The thing about feudalism is that it denigrates the moral and human significance of those not in the elite. We once had a society that respected (both morally and financially) blue collar workers and farmers. Now, for various and political reasons, the elite have announced that those who work with their hands are sub-human, and can only partially redeem themselves by worshipping at the church of wokeness. More skilled people, like tech and health workers, might gain a bit more status, but are mostly still not eligible for the over-class royalty, which is becoming hereditary.
The complete devaluing of the non-college class was never more evident than during covid. The college educated classes hid in their houses in fear, and relied exclusively on the service worker class to risk their own health and safety to fetch them their groceries, deliver their take out, and make goddam sure they got their two-day shipping from the Amazon warehouse. All while shrieking about "safety" and the "deadly virus." Those people were expendable and were expected to put their own lives on the line in the face of a "deadly virus" to make sure the pampered classes were comfortable in quarantine.
This.
Either the pajama class were willing to sacrifice the health and lives of the peasants... or they never really believed their fear mongering bullshit about how dangerous the virus was, and deliberately played along to sacrifice the livelihoods of the peasants and small business owners.
Why can’t it be both?
True
Do I have to be an editor here too? Unless you're referring to particular things that are true some of the time and untrue at other times, you probably meant, "People believe and say things that are untrue all the time...." Or even clearer, "People believe and say things all the time that are untrue...."
It was in Eric Drexler's Engines of Creation that I read decades ago about the concept of fact forums — I forgot who he credited it to — which would work great today via the Internet. These were distributed means of getting at truth. Of course they could never replace human judgment or do all our work in that regard, but they're a great idea which unfortunately is not well implemented by the World Wide Web, nor solved by wikis. To construct fact forums as explained in the book, what you need is linking by the reverse means that the Web uses; that is, instead of the owner/creator of a page putting in the links to others' work, other people would put links into your page to their work.
The problem with combating disinformation is that people only want to stop the disinformation that hurts their team. If disinformation helps their team, they’ll gladly pretend it’s true.
Bingo.
He was talking about you, you fifty-centing fuck.
You mean like you lying about bidens desires to ban weapon sales above? Lol. God damn jeff.
No, it is about you continually posting right-wing garbage that lies by omission.
you lying about bidens desires to ban weapon sales above?
Do you think that if you repeat this often enough, it will become true?
I've said all along that Biden is absolutely in favor of banning certain types of guns. Why would anyone lie about that? That has been his position for decades now.
But the claim was that he wants to ban "the ammunition that goes into handguns". That wasn't proved.
His direct quotes are right wing lies? Do explain.
Not true. It's just not symmetrical in that way. Liberals base their entire political worldview on applying empirically validated methods to improve human well-being.
Right-wingers lie constantly and don't care because their single goal is power for themselves and their perceived in-group.
Progressives believe that empirical methods are white supremacy. Their priority is alliance to self-serving narratives in a power struggle. Your accusations of right-wingers is a confessional form of projection.
Don't get me wrong, I wish liberals were far more ruthless in their acquisition of power. It's not that the fascists don't have good methods, for their specific ends. Evolution has dotted our species with sociopaths because sometimes being a sociopath means you get to fuck.
The Biden years sucking worse than the Trump years certainly didn’t help the progressive quest for power. I’m not even sure their attempts at election fraud will be enough to avoid a wipe out.
I suppose its your own boon that you can interpret reality in whichever way your heart desires.
Whatever you say, Team Narrative.
Not all conventional wisdom or mainstream information is a conspiratorial lie. Believing so is possible evidence of severe mental illness.
Vague platitudes are boring.
True, perhaps, of the Trump impersonators from Grindr that you have to pay to come hate-fuck you until your backdoor beef curtains are flapping like the flag on the fourth of July. Also true of the murderous pieces of shit you idolize. What's more remarkable than the sociopaths are people like you who are so filled with blinding hatred and utterly impotent rage that you have to worship said sociopaths like deities to compensate for your own self-loathing and daddy issues. Given the choice between evil and stupid, you picked both, and all you get out of it is whatever validation you can somehow pick out from a half dozen multinational corporations patting you on head for one month out of the year. At least the braindead savages who sold Manhattan got 13 bucks worth of trinkets out of it.
Tony, if you don't kill yourself someone else might have to.
Tony, natural selection should logical,y end in your violent death. You should thank us for allowing you to live.
Tony continues to prove that the "special" in "special pleading" has the same meaning as the "special" in "special education".
When has that ever happened? Like even once?
That is just laugh out loud ludicrous.
Are you having a stroke? You have been playing greatest hits from years ago. This one sounds like a Jon Stuart parody. Others are stuck in 2016.
Did today's talking points fail to come through? Or is this a medical emergency?
If liberals start worshiping the every twitter fart of an obviously demented clown to the abandonment of all reason and pretensions of democracy, I will let you know.
Let's hope TDS is fatal.
Wait, what? Were you not aware that the Trump White House and Fox News coordinated on a daily basis? They directly amplified each other's messages?
Does this not concern you at all?
Trump isn’t president anymore, and the White House now coordinates with a large number of media outlets. Jen Psaki even acted as press secretary for months while in talks to join MSNBC. Where she is now employed.
But it’s Trump that everyone should worry about.
Please eludicate: Covington Teens
Rittenhouse
Mask Efficacy
Vaccine Efficacy
My body, my choice re: abortion vs. vaccine mandate
Twitter (being purchased by Musk) vs Washington Post (Owned by Bezos)
Is Lupron a chemical castration or a puberty blocker
'Fake news!' designation vs Censoring
Mean tweets vs inflation and collapsing economy
That's it for now! Look forward to your insightful answers.
Stop watching FOX News.
If you really think some cunt teen from CNN is a major world problem, then you have the most blessed fucking life imaginable.
The world has real problems. Your never-ending complaints about minor perceived sleights at your comfort level are not among them.
Thank you for conceding that you cannot rebut my claims. Point of fact, I rarely watch Fox News, sticking more to local broadcast news only. Most of my national news comes from various internet sites, both progressive and conservative. If possible I prefer the raw footage so that I may observe what actually happened before filtering and editing. Again thank you for conceding that you have no rebuttals to my points. I'm also sorry for forcing cognitive dissonance upon you.
Hahahahahaha
Thanks Tony, you’re always good for a chuckle.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha
That is what Liberals SAY they are doing, and some may actually believe it, but what they actually do is just confirmation bias, power grabs and propaganda.
Check this out. Not sure who this dude is, but Rippa is right, this is a MASTER CLASS in how to not apologize, or bend to social justice warrior. A master class...
He is correct.
Becoming defensive in the face of psychotic accusations is precisely what the abuser wants. It grants their premise precedence and legitimacy.
So deny them their psychotic, illegitimate premise.
They depend upon you to defeat yourself.
Denying their premise does not mean denying or refuting their accusations, it means treating their accusations as irrelevant nonsense that doesn't even require acknowledgement. Because that's exactly what they are.
That would end all extended debate threads with chemjeff (and his ilk) here wouldnt it?
I still am amazed at the lengths commenters here go to try to pin him down on something when they know from the start it will never cop to being caught.
I used to think it had value in that it brought out various counters to disingenuous arguements but now i just scroll down to where a new comment starts - it just gets too tiring!
Oh my god this shit is embarrassingly pathetic.
If you're going to be autistic and completely unable to navigate basic human interaction, at least be able to do amazing counting tricks or something. Falling into this whiny right-wing victim crap isn't entertaining for anyone.
I thought you were on team jeff.
True, we don't need these fragile right wing snowflakes taking the attention away from society's real victims: the perennially persecuted penis puffer.
Go fuck yourself, Tony. Nobody else is going to do it.
Racist.
Never, EVER apologize. Apologizing is admitting guilt to them, and they will never forgive you anyway. Never give them anything, because it will never be enough for them. Once you start defending yourself, you validate them, and that's like throwing meat to the lions.
Fascism 101. Also Trump 101.
You don’t know what words mean, do you, racist?
https://twitter.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1533141307002081281?t=F5WJdWVDrn0trvXxPWWWlg&s=19
If you were to declare war on a country, you might attempt to disarm them, destroy their currency, and propagandize their children.
The people doing this to you are at war with you.
That would be your handlers in Russia, right NARDZ?
No one in Ukraine is disarmed, the mighty UAH is 1/10 of 1 cent USD off from its 2 year average, the RUB is up, and the only propaganda being fed to Ukrainian children is by the boomer television actor who's conscripting them into war and preventing them from fleeing the country. But other than that, yes, that's a spot-on analogy as usual, sarcasmic. You're so incisive!
You snowflakes still on the rag about the DHS Disinformation Board? You know the one aimed at foreign disinformation with no enforcement power? That one snowflakes?
You stupid MAGA motherfuckers believe any and every conspiracy your handlers in the GOP throw out so of course you believed this one too.
By the way Ceto of the long winded opening post. The senate Intel Comm, led by the GOP at the time (2020) confirmed almost everything in the Mueller Report including Putins trying to elect Trump and fuck up Hillary, using Wikileaks and Assange who the Comm found was a knowing Russian stooge, and that Trump used Roger Stoner to try and sty on top of the latest with him and knew about the Russian efforts. The recent premature ejaculation by Durham was not about any of that. It was about 1 isolated charge later found by the FBI to be not true, that Trump was using a bank in Russia for nefarious purposes. It had nothing to do with any other findings of Mueller of the Senate Intel Comm Report - linked below. Read it so you know WTF is going on for a change, which includes the fact that your guy Trump was a traitor who would sell his mother and the country in order to get on TV.
"The Committee’s investigation totaled more than three years of investigative activity, more than 200 witness interviews, and more than a million pages of reviewed documents. All five volumes total more than 1300 pages."
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
I’m sure you’re very objective when it comes to information.
Your brain has been rotted by your media diet. It's just like your body. You have to take care of your mind.
Whatever you say, ridiculous person.
No Brian, it's what the bi-partisan committee led by the GOP at the time of the report says.
You’re still waiting for Merrick Garland to arrest Trump based on the Russia report now that he’s no longer president, aren’t you?
THE WALLS ARE CLOSING IN! IT'S THE BEGINNING OF THE END!
When he is finally found liable for civil or criminal actions, you're just going to blame a Democrat conspiracy.
In certain ways, the propagandized mind is freest of all. Absolutely no constraints on logic.
You’ve been telling us that Trump is about to go to jail for six years now. It’s been right around the corner for six years. And you’re still waiting.
Thanks for making my point.
No I haven't. But you're welcome to follow the facts of the uncountable investigations against him. Or just wait for them to finish.
I did see him try to overthrow the United States constitution live on TV, though, so he seems pretty fucking guilty to me.
There’s already been an investigation into January 6th.
Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-fbi-finds-scant-evidence-us-capitol-attack-was-coordinated-sources-2021-08-20/
That information doesn’t support your narrative, so it is rejected. Again, all your claims about the “propagandized mind” are confessional projection.
Has anything happened since that report almost 2 years ago? Anything?
Impeachment then acquittal in a senate under duress by the hysterical gun-toting mobs who would execute any Republican who said Trump's name in vain if they could.
They actually tried to execute the vice president, and Trump said... get this... Trump said that his vice president should probably be executed for not using his power to overturn the election he lost.
Who the fuck cares about Trump's infinite corruption at this point. It's the goddamn planet-destabilizing treason you stupid fuck.
If the GOP said it, it MUST be true!
It's funny because you're fat, ugly, infected with AIDS AND also retarded. Nice own goal.
Compelling argument Joel, and typical of the MAGA creeps who dominate on this board.
Does Tony have you on retainer or do you just presume to speak for all faggots, sarcasmic?
I do apologize ever so profusely for failing to match your dazzling rhetoric though. Here, let me try:
THE GODDAMN JEWS DID 9/11 AND YOUR OWN ZIONIST GOVERNMENT PUT OUT A REPORT DETAILING EXACTLY HOW MOSSAD COLLUDED WITH THE CIA TO PULL IT OFF! YOU CAN READ IT ALL RIGHT HERE IN THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT!!!!!!!
https://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
CHECKMATE!
Now go play in traffic you fucking clown.
How dare you call me fat.
sarcasmic consumes both kinds of media: socialist and communist.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Eat shit and die, Asshole.
They got the message soldier and none of them are engaging me. They are not able to to.
Probably they're too terrified of your certified internet tuff gai language, sarcasmic. I mean, you said snowflakes AND MAGA motherfuckers! How could any of these simpleton pussies ever step to that? If they don't check themselves, they know damn good and well that you'll invite them to the men's room gloryhole of a boomer rock concert.
Faggot, you’re a waste of time. You’re too stupid for a debate.
Incidentally banana fire ring Samuel technology gasoline!
Jesus fucking Christ, sarcasmic. We know you're a drunken piece of shit who's seeing double by 8 AM every morning until the welfare check runs dry, but can't you ask the homeless derelict in the next section 8 apartment to proof read your shit for you?
The bad orange man has been out of office for 2 years. You lost on the impeachment both times. You had no evidence. You are a liar and a stupid piece of shit. Move the fuck on with your life. Jesus. Then again, you're still hung up on your wife leaving you and depriving you of a ripe underage twat to fuck. It's just sad that Biden has become your surrogate.
Joel you cretin, I'm not sarcasmic and nothing you have said refutes the facts developed by the GOP led Senate Intel Comm.
Hey, you learned a new word! Was that in the talking points memo for today or did you accidentally order a word of the day calendar while you were drunk-shopping on Amazon, sarcasmic?
Considering the 4 year old report you referenced came to the same conclusion as the Mueller report - that there was no coordination of any kind between Russia and the Trump campaign - it hardly seems necessary to "refute" it, since you posted the link without having read one syllable of it and quite literally everything you posted is a lie.
Mid-August 2020 was not 4 years ago you moron (less than 2 years ago), and no, neither it or the Mueller report came to the conclusion that Trump and his campaign was not coordinating with the Russians. In fact they confirmed they were.
I have read much of it and I suggest you do as well so you will actually know what you are taking about instead of just repeating what one of the world's most well known and obvious con men insists is true about evidence proving him a liar and traitor.
Here you go Joel. Enjoy.
"The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-andleak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting. ...
,,,In addition to publishing the stolen documents, the Russian personas used social engineering to seed information with specific individuals associated with the Trump Campaign. The GRU also relied on U.S. social media platforms and media attention for its influence operations. -WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The Committee found significant indications that Julian Assan e and WikiLeaks have benefited from Russian overnment su art
While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those materials to aid Trump's electoral prospects. To do so, the Trump Campaign took actions to obtain advance notice about WikiLeaks releases of Clinton emails; took steps to obtain inside information about the content of releases once WikiLeaks began to publish stolen information; created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following their release; and encouraged further theft of information and continued leaks. (U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about WikiLeaks through Roger Stone. In spring 2016, prior to Assange's public announcements, Stone advised the Campaign that WikiLeaks would be releasing materials harmful to Clinton. Following the July 22 DNC release, Trump and the Campaign believed that Roger Stone had known of the release and had inside access to WikiLeaks, and repeatedly communicated with Stone about WikiLeaks throughout the summer and fall of 2016. Trump and other senior Campaign officials specifically directed Stone to obtain information about upcoming document releases relating to Clinton and report back. At their direction, Stone took action to gain inside knowledge for the Campaign and shared his purported knowledge directly with Trump and senior Campaign officials on multiple occasions. Trump and the Campaign believed that Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone's information suggested more releases would be forthcoming.
Some of the individuals the GRU targeted for outreach with the Gucci fer 2.0 persona were closely associated with the Trump Campaign, such as long-time Trump advisor Roger Stone.1249 On August 5, 2016, Stone penned an opinion piece asserting that Guccifer 2.0, not the Russians, had hacked the DNC, and repeating the false claims made by the GRU on the Guccifer 2.0 website and Twitter account.12
In addition to disseminating hacked materials through its own personas, the GRU gave information to WikiLeaks as part of a joint effort to secure wider distribution of stolen DNC documents and John Podesta emails. WikiLeaks opted to release those materials, first on July 22 and later on an ongoing basis between October 7 and the election. WikiLeaks also actively solicited and then released the documents for maximum effect, despite mounting evidence that they had been stolen by Russian government hackers. Notably, this was not the first instance that WikiLeaks had taken actions for the purpose of harming U.S. interests. Nor is it the only instance of contact between the Russian government and WikiLeaks, which have a history of parallel and sometimes coordinated actions in attacking U.S. institutions.
The Russian government has pursued a relationship with Julian Assange and WikiLeaks that includes formal partnerships with state-owned media platforms, government assistance for WikiLeaks associates and sources, and information sharing. This relationship has existed since at least 2012 and reflects an alignment between the Russian government and WikiLeaks in seeking to undermine U.S. institutions and security. (U) RT (formerly Russia Today) has provided both beneficial coverage ofWikiLeaks and a formal, compensated media platform for Assange. RT first signed a contract with Assange
(U) While the GRU and WikiLeaks were coordinating the release of hacked pNC, DCCC, and Podesta documents, Trump and senior Campaign officials sought information relating to "missing" Hillary Clinton emails as part of the Campaign's opposition research and press strategies. Beginning in April or May 2016, Roger Stone repeatedly cc;mveyed to Trump and senior Campaign staff that WikiLeaks would be releasing information damaging to Clinton. After the July 22 WikiLeaks release, Trump and senior Campaign officials believed Stone had access to non-public information about WikiLeaks' s ability and intent to release emails harmful to Clinton. (U) Thereafter, Trump directed Campaign officials to stay in touch with Roger Stone about future WikiLeaks activities regarding Clinton-related emails. Manafort in tum tasked Stone to contact Julian Assange, and Stone endeavored to reach Assange through several intermediaries. Stone reported back to senior Campaign officials and· associates, and to Trump directly, and provided advance informatio~ about another expected release relating to John Podesta, which he said would be damaging to Clinton. After WikiLeaks published the Podesta emails on October 7, Trump and the Campaign believed Stone had again acquired accurate, nonpublic information. The Committee could not reliably trace the provision of non-public information from WikiLeaks to Stone, and as a result. could not evaluate the full scope of Stone's non-public knowledge of WikiLeaks's activities. (U) The Trump Campaign strategically monitored and promoted the WikiLeaks releases of John Podesta's emails from October 7 until the· election.• The Campaign tried to cast doubton the October 7 joint DHS/ODNT assessment formally attributing the activity to Russia, and was indifferent to the significance of acquiring, promoting, or disseminating materials from a Russian intelligence services hack-and-leak campaign.....
...At approximately 4:32 p.m. on October 7-approximately 32 minutes after the release of the Access Hollywood tape-WikiLeaks released 2,050 emails that the GRU had stolen from John Podesta, repeatedly announcing the leak on Twitter and linking to a searchable archive of the documents.1677
Corsi said that after the October 7 WikiLeaks release, he and Stone agreed that they deserve.d credit and that."Trump should reward us."1682 However, Corsi said that Stone was concerned about having advance information about the Podesta release, and that Stone recruited . Corsi to make sure no one knew Stone had advance knowledge of that information. After the October 7 release, Corsi claimed that Stone directed him to delete emails relating to the Podesta information.1683 As outlined in his indictment and presented at trial, in subsequent congressional testim~ny to the HPSCI, Stone hid his communications with Corsi about WikiLeaks, and instead identified Credico as his intermediary; he also concealed communications he made directing both Corsi and Credico to obtain advance information about future WikiLeaks releases; and he made misleading and false statements about his communications with the Trump Campaign and individuals associated with the Campaign.1684 Following this testimony, Corsi said that Stone directed him to "stick to the plan"; Stone also threatened Credico to prevent him from testifying · to HPSCI and contradicting Stone's story.....
Trump, in written responses to the SCO, stated: "I do not recall discussing WikiLeaks with [Stone], nor do I recall being aware of Mr. Stone having discussed WikiLeaks. with individuals associated with my campaign."1624 Trump further claimed that he had "no recollection of the specifics of any conversations I had with Mr. Stone between June 1, 2016 and November 8, 2016."1625 Despite Trump's recollection, the Committee ass~sses that Trump did, in fact, speak with Stone about WikiLeaks and with members of his Campaign about Stone's access to WikiLeaks on multiple occasions. ...
...Despite the contemporaneous statement by the U.S. Government warning of Russian responsibility for the hacking and leaking of the DNC, DCCC, and Clinton Campaign documents and emails, the Trump Campaign considered the release of these materials to be its "October surprise."1691 ....
...While the Campaign was using the WikiLeaks documents, Trump cast doubt on the assessment that Russian government hackers were responsible for the hack-and-leak campaign. ..."
There's much more.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
Can you tell us how to differentiate between 'foreign' disinformation on covid vaccines vs domestic disinformation on covid vaccines, what is allowable, how the passage of months turns disinformation into information, how government can do that better than citizens, and how all of that does not run afoul of the 1st Amendment?
He can’t, because Joe is fucking stupid as fuck. I mean goddamn, I thought shrike was a dumb piece of shit, but Joe takes the cake. Mostly because he’s an arrogant little fuck like Tony, while smugly wallowing in his abject idiocy.
We either dismantle FOX News and associated mass right-wing propaganda mills or we die as a species.
When people are running around saying that one trans swimmer is a bigger deal than climate change, we're fucked. And the fucking fascists won't keep the first amendment around if they get in charge anyway. They've made that very clear as they've tried to use the power of the state to force private companies to publish right-wing propaganda and election lies.
Probably the best way to keep Republicans out of power would be to not royally fuck up the first two years of the Biden administration.
Too late.
Good luck in the midterms!
Things seem to be going pretty well, except in red states.
That’s just a story you tell yourself.
Definitely keep up the "We absolutely must have drag queens discussing anal masturbation with 5 year olds" thing, you will be sure to win!
I think you actually believe that is happening. Your household must be a whimsical environment.
Red states are growing better than blue states dumbass.
When you're in the shit gutter, where else are you supposed to go?
Keep trying to turn women into brood mares and see how much brainpower you attract to your universities.
https://twitter.com/scottadamssays/status/1529091249558327296?s=21&t=_8TkzoE3r1ZgAbDv3zUoIg
Hoax Quiz
How many of these hoaxes do you still believe are true?
1. Russian collusion hoax
2. Steel Dossier hooker story
3. Russia paying bounties on US soldiers in Afghanistan
4. Trump called Neo-Nazis “fine people”
5. Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID
6. Trump over fed koi fish in Japan
7. Trump cleared protestors with tear gas for a bible photo op
8. Hunter’s Laptop was Russian disinformation
9. Elections were fair because no court found major fraud
10. January 6th was an “insurrection” to overthrow the government
Just get off the internet. You're either too old and enfeebled or too naturally gullible to use it responsibly.
I get it, it's not easy. But it's not that hard either. I manage not to pollute my brain with a chaotic web of disjointed lies somehow. Maybe it's because I understand the difference between journalism and a Comic Sans meme.
I assume you’re 10/10.
Or you could just shut your stupid fucking cock holster while you still have the opportunity to do so voluntarily, Tony. You're well past the age where any gay man wants to fuck you anymore. It's only a matter of time before you act out your pedophilic fantasies and catch a bullet from a parent who won't even be charged with a crime for killing you.
Well you do have an admitted advantage in that regard, having no brain to pollute.
4. Trump called Neo-Nazis “fine people”
5. Trump suggested drinking/injecting bleach to fight COVID
The problem with these two "hoaxes" is that Trump himself is vague and inarticulate with his public speaking, so that we don't really know what he was thinking at the time that he uttered those words.
Consider #4. No, he did not directly call Neo-Nazis "fine people". But, he had, immediately before that infamous statement, tried to create a moral equivalent between the "alt-right" and the supposed "alt-left", and in Trumpian fashion he was very vague about what he meant by the "alt-left". Was he referring to violent people like Antifa? Or was he referring simply to people who oppose alt-right fascism? So who precisely did he mean by the people on "both sides"? He was not clear on this in the moment.
Consider #5. This is what Trump said exactly:
So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said that hasn’t been checked, but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way. And I think you said you’re going to test that too. Sounds interesting, right? And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it’d be interesting to check that. So that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful.
So, he brings up how light can kill the virus. And then he proposes irradiating inside the body with light. And then he brings up disinfectants. And then he asks "is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside". Again, what precisely is he referring to with the "something like that"? Because he is not clear, I think people can be forgiven for making a reasonable interpretation of his vague words based on context.
Okay, let's go back through the timeline regarding number 4, since you don't know what you're talking about.
On Saturday, the day day of the riot in which the one counter protestor was killed, Trump put out a statement:
But we're closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Va.. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. It's been going on for a long time in our country. Not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. This has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America. What is vital now is a swift restoration of law and order and the protection of innocent lives. No citizen should ever fear for their safety and security in our society. And no child should ever be afraid to go outside and play or be with their parents and have a good time.
People flipped their shit over him pointing out that many sides were being violent, even though he explicitly called out bigotry and hatred.
Two days later, he more directly addressed the issue once he had more information. He kept saying he condemned Neo-Nazis throughout the interview, but the reporter was quite clearly hostile. Trump's overall point was that there were clearly some violent people on the left, the counterprotestor side, as well.
Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"
Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.
"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.
Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"
Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."
https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/
Trump wasn't the one who said the word "left" or "alt-left," the reporter did. Trump simply said the other side, the counter-protestors, were also being very violent, which is difficult to dispute. And then he made his other comment that, at that protest, there were also lots of very fine people on both sides.
He didn't call Nazis very fine people at any point, and he was quite careful and explicit about that. And if the media gave him the same grace they give any Democratic politician, they'd have reported that, instead of trying to frame his comments in the least charitable way possible.
That reporter kept asking Trump to condemn the alt-right, as well, and then Trump said, "Well okay, define it for me." And the reporter just ignored that, while still blaming Trump for not condemning it. It's clearly laying a trap when you're asking someone to condemn a very vaguely-defined term. And that's the point-the vague terminology that they can just twist to mean whatever.
My point here is that it's inappropriate to call those two statements "hoaxes" because instead of being malicious deceptions, they are instead uncharitable interpretations of Trump's own vague words.
For example, Biden last week gave this anecdote about the purported lethality of .22 vs. 9mm ammunition, and then directly afterwards said something vague like "we have to do something about this". Because he was vague, it allowed others to read into his words as uncharitable an explanation as they wished. But I wouldn't call those uncharitable explanations "hoaxes" per se.
Regardless of Biden's point, he was condemning how wrong and bad and devastating 9mm ammunition is, which is a terrible point to make. It may have been slightly misinterpreted as his intent to remake the gun industry (which, let's face it, he actually wants to do that). The lack of charity there is a very tiny slight.
On the other hand, Trump's overall point was "Fuck the Neo-Nazis, but not every single protestor was a Neo-Nazi, and besides that, a lot of the counter protestors were being extremely aggressive as well." That got turned into, "Those Neo-Nazis are fine chaps," which is so far afield from what he was saying that it is definitely a hoax.
It may have been slightly misinterpreted as his intent to remake the gun industry (which, let's face it, he actually wants to do that).
What precisely do you mean by "remake the gun industry"?
"Fuck the Neo-Nazis, but not every single protestor was a Neo-Nazi, and besides that, a lot of the counter protestors were being extremely aggressive as well."
If he had actually SAID that, instead of whatever word salad that he did utter, there would be no issue at all.
There was no word salad. I can find the whole transcript if that would help.
And Biden has repeatedly mentioned 9mm pistols while talking about banning guns and ammunition.
It’s a hoax because it’s an outright lie that dim bulbs like Joe parrot.
Obama said 57 states and it was a major scandal for a decade.
Rationalizing and defending Trump's humungous catalogue of vile and stupid statements seems like a waste of about 10 lifetimes.
Obama saying "57 states" was not a major scandal. It was mostly brought up as an example of a Democrat misspeaking being covered by the major media and not regarded as the politician making the error being regarded as an idiot.
So it’s a 10/10 for you?
Even Politifact admitted the “fine people” comment wasn’t true I believe.
Or we could just get 17 year old little boys to ventilate your psychopathic brown shirts and then laugh until our ribs hurt while you impotently rage on the internet about it. I think we should do that.
One of your two examples exists while the other is called weather and the people most obsessed over it live lives that are in near total contradiction of their self-professed values.
Here we have Tony, the totally-not fascist authoritarian ready to censor whatever he deems undesirable, coupled with hysterical victim status-seeking.
We're all sometimes pro-censorship, depending on context.
For example, I can barely move my elbows, on a libertarian board no less, without bumping into someone who wants the government to slam its jackboot on the throats of teachers who speak in unapproved ways.
They just call it common sense.
when you are on the side of people going "we should be able to talk to impressionable 5 year olds about sex and gender dysphoria" and the other people are on the side of "we should be able to question a new experimental vaccine, especially now that they are pushing to use it on the youngest school age children who based on the data almost all the time do not need it" it is really easy to see which side the madness is on and which side is being rational.
Enjoy the backlash that is coming to the hardcore left, even the centrist dems (esp the guys with any set of nuts left) are over this stuff. The pendulum is going to swing far back your way, and your extreme overreach is to blame.
Some people even have the audacity to force teachers to stop leading prayer in schools.
Fascists.
^ this.
They are fine with all the other religions being banned, but somehow their newage postmodern "everything is a construct and anything can be anything, science/biology be damned" should be allowed.
Im cool with christianity being kept in the churches. But they demand we allow their twisted newage religion be allowed.
We can all easily see who the fascists are.
As I said, free speech is a myth, and speech is restricted in all sorts of contexts.
I just don't want fucking Nazis having their hands on the censorship button, that's all.
"We’re flagging problematic posts for Facebook that spread disinformation. We’re working with doctors and medical experts…who are popular with their audience with accurate information. So, we’re helping get trusted content out there.“ - Biden press sec.
The Nazi's are doing everything they can to get control of that button and make sure no one else does.
Neither do I, which is why I want the Democrats out of power.
For people who see a real possibility of Nazis coming to power in the USA, you seem bizarrely cavalier about waving away the right of the people to bare arms against a tyrannical government.
Given that we have the highest suicide rates among young people, just the most tragic expression of exploding levels of depression and anxiety, and that we now have millions of young adults who fear "mean words", I would say teachers have already been speaking in unapproved (i.e. destructive) ways. And we need to stop them.
And we need to stop them.
What do you suggest?
No, "we" don't dismantle FOX News. We create a market for truth.
It's not just FOX News, although they are the biggest culprit, it is all of partisan media. Their purpose is not to inform, but to provoke outrage, and they do that by lying, usually lying by omission.
The problem is, the market for consumers demanding outrage is larger than the market for consumers demanding the truth. And there is no easy fix. Change must start in the schools, with far better media literacy skills than what kids have been taught in the past (and what we see now is plainly evident when those poorly taught kids are now adults making media choices). And it has to happen by continually pointing out how those people who rely on FOX News, or MSNBC, or any other partisan media source, they are being lied to. WE just have to keep pointing it out until enough people just get sick of the lies and demand truth instead.
I maintain that it's easier than we think it is. FOX News, like any organization, is just made up of people. Hitler and Lachlan Murdoch were/are just people. Accidents happen all the time.
Again, doesn’t sound like something a person who’s against an armed population would sincerely believe.
Nah, better we exterminate all the Marxists. Want to have a contest to see who wins?
Ahh the leftist retard brigade comes to try to rescue their leader jeff and just makes things worse lol.
I muted them all. They're not worth listening to, and certainly not worth responding to. Their whole game is to derail conversations and suck everyone in to fighting with them. They have nothing constructive to add to the conversations.
Once you learn to treat them like the absolute lolcows they are and find out you can bait them into 5 paragraph essays by merely blaspheming their prophets, they can actually be pretty entertaining. It's like when Norm Macdonald went on The View and had the shriveled old cunt Babwa Wawa so histrionic and flustered she had to resort to threats of violence by doing nothing more than saying Al Gore lost the 2000 election and Bill Clinton had somebody killed.
I used to enjoy messing with them, but it got old. I'm happier now that they're all on mute.
Cronut, if by conversation you mean a circle jerk of MAGA fools who can't support anything they say and default to lame personal insults when facts are presented - read the Senate Intel Comm Report - yeah, I guess so.
Joe Friday was once arrested in Albuquerque for engaging in sordid sexual congress with a goat in the middle of a petting zoo in front of all the children. Want the proof? Check out Project Blue Book, it's all in there! What now motherfucking fucks? Did you hear me? I said FUCK! That just shows you how serious and badass I am.
How did he entice the goat to sodomize him? As I assume he’s a bottom.
I hear you on that, but I still dont mute anyone. If for no other reason than I need to know what the intellectually inferior part of the country is up to.
It's nice to know what the mobs tactics are going to be, and they rarely hide it.
I'm not too worried about their tactics. I have a lot of ammo.
Their whole game is to derail conversations and suck everyone in to fighting with them.
this describes Jesse to a tee
No, it’s you. Jesse isn’t the problem. You are. You are not a libertarian, and have no business here.
Says the guy who accuses me of being a pedophile.
Show me where I accused you. I offered a theory that explains your bizarre, child predator friendly positions.
GUYS! WE'RE UNDER SEIGE! BY CHRISTIAN NATIONALISTS! LITERALLY THE HANDMAID'S TALE!
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1532678750940299267?s=20&t=356Hr8lm6sK8IbK_dbh1yA
Republicans are using the full force of the state to force women to give birth to rape babies against their will, and they can barely contain their glee at the prospect. That's literally the plot of the book.
if a single irresponsible leftist has to be responsible for their own housing, healthcare, college tuition that signed up for, or consequences of decisions they made, everything is unfair and its LITERALLY slavery
you leftists have somehow become more of a parody of yourselves.
What you just said is LITERALLY violence, and whatever sock you were responding to feels unsafe.
Can we make it kill itself?
Yes, please.
Women? Slow down there, transphobe.
And there's a... "remarkably stable consensus" on abortion. You should have no trouble with democracy setting the standards here.
Sure, let's abolish the senate, supreme court, and the electoral college, and then we'll be in a democracy and I'll shut up about the theocratic fascists since they, presumably, would be once again relegated to their cousin-fucking mud parties or whatever it is they do.
There are plenty of countries that dont have a Senate, electoral college, SC, etc. You are more than welcome to move there.
If you have a problem with the system in the US you have your vote, and otherwise you are free to move to one of the Scandinavian utopias your kind frequently sites as paradise. Nothing is stopping you. And there are probably 10,000 people trying to claw their way into this fascist shit-hole of a country we call America for every one of you lefties that hates it so much.
Let me know when we can replace you with Mexican or Guatemalan Tony.
Again, for someone who really believes theocratic fascists are controlling the government, you’re very comfortable with a disarmed population.
It’s almost like you don’t believe you say, and just spew convenient garbage.
its just that he knows he is on the side of the fascists, with the goal being disarming anyone who doesn't agree with them.
*woosh!*
So you’re fine with eliminating abortion in all other circumstances?
I'm fine with the government not deciding a contentious moral issue involving the individual bodily autonomy of persons.
The Roe regime left it up to individuals. Republicans want to return it to politicians. I'm just for the libertarian option.
Now do vaccine mandates!
Ya this. I will never be listening to the pink/green haired losers who argued that people skeptical of a new experimental drug which was being heavily pushed by big pharma (surely out of their benevolence and not 100% for profit), needed to shut the fuck up, listen to the government, or they should be locked in their houses until they are ready to comply. Or not receive medical treatment if they didnt get vaxxed. Or lose their livelihood.
They lost any moral argument for "my body my choice" and I dont feel bad for them for a second. Just like many people left blue shit-hole states due to their authoritarian policies during COVID, leftists can do the same. There will be plenty of states (probably well over half) where they can get their precious abortion, and I would suggest they move there. But my body my choice? Sorry, they gave up that argument.
Funny, you’re ok with the government deciding everything else.
No it didn't. The Roe decision explicitly said that a women's right to abort was not "unlimited". But you wouldn't know that because you were educated in public schools.
Haha, read the comments. They're are idiot twits that believe this non-sense! But teaching 8 year olds about sex without parents permission, no big deal.
If your entire policy program rests on an absurd and inflammatory straw man, you're admitting your program is both unneeded and diabolical.
ya you're right Tony. they are trying to make it happen much younger. JasonAZ apparently was being too generous to the pedos
Jeff you are very active today. Any admitting Biden was likely talking about 9mm pistols? I still havent heard a response to the quotes provided by biden specifically about 9mm rounds and 9mm pistols.
You completely ducked out after that was provided and never rebutted.
Jeff's briefing book is not as thorough as Karine whatever-her-name-is. He's not prepared to answer those questions.
wait...is SHE supposed to be the one who is prepared? I haven't seen that from her yet.
Probably she just lacks the sociopathic ability to condescendingly lie and obfuscate that Psaki had mastered. Maybe she is just a bit better of a person.
She's only SUPPOSED to be black and gay. "Not completely fucking awful at the job" is optional.
He finally did respond and it was far worse than remaining silent lol.
Of course it was.
Perhaps internet time at the home is over.
its hard to peg exactly where he is in life.
My best guess is either a college student or maybe just beyond that. All confidence and sophistry but very few sound arguments. Resorts to the kind of tactics that often coincide with youth, ignorance, or both.
I honestly hope this is the case. If he is out there as a productive member of society and intellectually getting dunked on this hard daily, it would be a sad state of affairs. I hope he is a college student, for him.
"productive member of society"???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Fuckin' ...
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
There are two separate questions here:
1. Did Biden directly suggest, in his comments on May 31, that he wants to ban 9mm pistols?
2. Does Biden want to ban 9mm pistols as a general rule?
The answer to #1 is no, he did not.
The answer to #2 is maybe. We know he isn't exactly friendly towards gun rights generally, we know that he does want to ban other types of guns and other types of gun accessories. However I'm not aware of any other time when he said, directly, that he wants to ban all handguns. He HAS said things like he wants to ban certain types of handguns that are classified as so-called "assault weapons". He HAS said things like he wants to ban certain types of bullets that can be used in many handguns. But to my knowledge he's never said clearly "I want to ban handguns".
Not only is Johnny Depp a woman-hating abuser, he's also racist.
https://twitter.com/mldauber/status/1532971494703214592?s=20&t=iSAcLWdLPA9Akq1FEVt6Rw
I cant click the link but let me guess. Written by a white, AWFL, colored hair person
Close. Stanford professor. I think female, but no pronouns in bio and I'm not a biologist.
Definitely white, though.
sounds like I got 3/4
In Chicago, that's an A++++, and probably entitles you to a medical degree or something.
... and to vote for 20 consecutive years after you are dead.
Congrats!
Meatloaf sang 2/3 ain't bad, so I figure 3/4 is good.
also, this was completely predictable. It is page 1 of the playbook.
"Accuse said person of every ISM possible, evidence be damned"
I think it took 5 minutes for an article to come out, after the verdict, that this outcome was not only wrong, but a huge danger to women of color.
The most promising thing, is not only are people seeing me2 for what it was, they are seeing the race baiting for it as well. Its not going to end well for the left. Their main weapon is losing effectiveness at an alarming rate (for them)
Probably the most entertaining thing would be Kavanaugh suing Swetnik and the other obvious liar for defamation.
I realize its below him and he wouldnt wade into the mud, but its what those fucking liars deserve
Of course it was. They need to throw every ism they can think of at people they hate.
But you're right. People are less and less afraid of being called an "ist" or "phobe." They're losing, but this is when they're the most dangerous- when they're desperate.
JesseAZ and all - stop engaging with Lying Jeffy. Just mute him already. Tony, Joe Friday, White Mike, MollyG, etc. Just mute them all. They're either trolls or beyond the effort to engage.
It's one thing to have a reasonable conversation about Libertarian ideas, but these idiots are clearly progressives and not engaging in anything close to Libertarian thought. Or honest thought. Trolls.
Here's something else for you circle jerk delicate "libertarians" (apparently long form for MAGA idiot) to ignore and avoid. This from the GOP led Senate Intel Comm Report of Aug 2020:
"The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-andleak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting. ...
,,,In addition to publishing the stolen documents, the Russian personas used social engineering to seed information with specific individuals associated with the Trump Campaign. The GRU also relied on U.S. social media platforms and media attention for its influence operations. -WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The Committee found significant indications that Julian Assan e and WikiLeaks have benefited from Russian overnment su art
While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those materials to aid Trump's electoral prospects. To do so, the Trump Campaign took actions to obtain advance notice about WikiLeaks releases of Clinton emails; took steps to obtain inside information about the content of releases once WikiLeaks began to publish stolen information; created messaging strategies to promote and share the materials in anticipation of and following their release; and encouraged further theft of information and continued leaks. (U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about WikiLeaks through Roger Stone. In spring 2016, prior to Assange's public announcements, Stone advised the Campaign that WikiLeaks would be releasing materials harmful to Clinton. Following the July 22 DNC release, Trump and the Campaign believed that Roger Stone had known of the release and had inside access to WikiLeaks, and repeatedly communicated with Stone about WikiLeaks throughout the summer and fall of 2016. Trump and other senior Campaign officials specifically directed Stone to obtain information about upcoming document releases relating to Clinton and report back. At their direction, Stone took action to gain inside knowledge for the Campaign and shared his purported knowledge directly with Trump and senior Campaign officials on multiple occasions. Trump and the Campaign believed that Stone had inside information and expressed satisfaction that Stone's information suggested more releases would be forthcoming.
Some of the individuals the GRU targeted for outreach with the Gucci fer 2.0 persona were closely associated with the Trump Campaign, such as long-time Trump advisor Roger Stone.1249 On August 5, 2016, Stone penned an opinion piece asserting that Guccifer 2.0, not the Russians, had hacked the DNC, and repeating the false claims made by the GRU on the Guccifer 2.0 website and Twitter account.12
In addition to disseminating hacked materials through its own personas, the GRU gave information to WikiLeaks as part of a joint effort to secure wider distribution of stolen DNC documents and John Podesta emails. WikiLeaks opted to release those materials, first on July 22 and later on an ongoing basis between October 7 and the election. WikiLeaks also actively solicited and then released the documents for maximum effect, despite mounting evidence that they had been stolen by Russian government hackers. Notably, this was not the first instance that WikiLeaks had taken actions for the purpose of harming U.S. interests. Nor is it the only instance of contact between the Russian government and WikiLeaks, which have a history of parallel and sometimes coordinated actions in attacking U.S. institutions.
The Russian government has pursued a relationship with Julian Assange and WikiLeaks that includes formal partnerships with state-owned media platforms, government assistance for WikiLeaks associates and sources, and information sharing. This relationship has existed since at least 2012 and reflects an alignment between the Russian government and WikiLeaks in seeking to undermine U.S. institutions and security. (U) RT (formerly Russia Today) has provided both beneficial coverage ofWikiLeaks and a formal, compensated media platform for Assange. RT first signed a contract with Assange
(U) While the GRU and WikiLeaks were coordinating the release of hacked pNC, DCCC, and Podesta documents, Trump and senior Campaign officials sought information relating to "missing" Hillary Clinton emails as part of the Campaign's opposition research and press strategies. Beginning in April or May 2016, Roger Stone repeatedly cc;mveyed to Trump and senior Campaign staff that WikiLeaks would be releasing information damaging to Clinton. After the July 22 WikiLeaks release, Trump and senior Campaign officials believed Stone had access to non-public information about WikiLeaks' s ability and intent to release emails harmful to Clinton. (U) Thereafter, Trump directed Campaign officials to stay in touch with Roger Stone about future WikiLeaks activities regarding Clinton-related emails. Manafort in tum tasked Stone to contact Julian Assange, and Stone endeavored to reach Assange through several intermediaries. Stone reported back to senior Campaign officials and· associates, and to Trump directly, and provided advance informatio~ about another expected release relating to John Podesta, which he said would be damaging to Clinton. After WikiLeaks published the Podesta emails on October 7, Trump and the Campaign believed Stone had again acquired accurate, nonpublic information. The Committee could not reliably trace the provision of non-public information from WikiLeaks to Stone, and as a result. could not evaluate the full scope of Stone's non-public knowledge of WikiLeaks's activities. (U) The Trump Campaign strategically monitored and promoted the WikiLeaks releases of John Podesta's emails from October 7 until the· election.• The Campaign tried to cast doubton the October 7 joint DHS/ODNT assessment formally attributing the activity to Russia, and was indifferent to the significance of acquiring, promoting, or disseminating materials from a Russian intelligence services hack-and-leak campaign.....
...At approximately 4:32 p.m. on October 7-approximately 32 minutes after the release of the Access Hollywood tape-WikiLeaks released 2,050 emails that the GRU had stolen from John Podesta, repeatedly announcing the leak on Twitter and linking to a searchable archive of the documents.1677
Corsi said that after the October 7 WikiLeaks release, he and Stone agreed that they deserve.d credit and that."Trump should reward us."1682 However, Corsi said that Stone was concerned about having advance information about the Podesta release, and that Stone recruited . Corsi to make sure no one knew Stone had advance knowledge of that information. After the October 7 release, Corsi claimed that Stone directed him to delete emails relating to the Podesta information.1683 As outlined in his indictment and presented at trial, in subsequent congressional testim~ny to the HPSCI, Stone hid his communications with Corsi about WikiLeaks, and instead identified Credico as his intermediary; he also concealed communications he made directing both Corsi and Credico to obtain advance information about future WikiLeaks releases; and he made misleading and false statements about his communications with the Trump Campaign and individuals associated with the Campaign.1684 Following this testimony, Corsi said that Stone directed him to "stick to the plan"; Stone also threatened Credico to prevent him from testifying · to HPSCI and contradicting Stone's story.....
Trump, in written responses to the SCO, stated: "I do not recall discussing WikiLeaks with [Stone], nor do I recall being aware of Mr. Stone having discussed WikiLeaks. with individuals associated with my campaign."1624 Trump further claimed that he had "no recollection of the specifics of any conversations I had with Mr. Stone between June 1, 2016 and November 8, 2016."1625 Despite Trump's recollection, the Committee ass~sses that Trump did, in fact, speak with Stone about WikiLeaks and with members of his Campaign about Stone's access to WikiLeaks on multiple occasions. ...
...Despite the contemporaneous statement by the U.S. Government warning of Russian responsibility for the hacking and leaking of the DNC, DCCC, and Clinton Campaign documents and emails, the Trump Campaign considered the release of these materials to be its "October surprise."1691 ....
...While the Campaign was using the WikiLeaks documents, Trump cast doubt on the assessment that Russian government hackers were responsible for the hack-and-leak campaign. ..."
There's much more.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
John Podesta... Podesta... I think his email password was runner4567.
Did somebody fart?
retard says what?
I didn't think so.
What? nothing to say about this?
"The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-andleak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting. ...
,,,In addition to publishing the stolen documents, the Russian personas used social engineering to seed information with specific individuals associated with the Trump Campaign. The GRU also relied on U.S. social media platforms and media attention for its influence operations. -WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The Committee found significant indications that Julian Assan e and WikiLeaks have benefited from Russian government support"
retard says what?
"Joe Friday
June.5.2022 at 11:13 am
Flag Comment Mute User
I didn't think so.
What? "
Well, that answers that
God you’re boring.
You really expect people to read your copy pasta essays?
You know what I like about Pride 2022? It sidelined gay people.
Not brave or victimized enough.
gay people were edgy and useful long ago. but now?
Cis gender? Financially sound? Often times even, white?!?! They might as well be fundamental Christians as far as the left is concerned.
And surprising literally no one of ANY IQ score:
*Slow Clap.*
Pretty sure Seattle is where the 'social worker' was attacked when she went solo to an appointment. The cops who saved her were flabbergasted that she was told to go alone.
Yes, and she's suing the city, if I'm correct.
And she should personally sue the individuals who sent her, and the Mayor, and the entire City Council. But unfortunately, they're protected by Qualified Immunity.
No I'm not.
https://twitter.com/shoe0nhead/status/1533178545920417793?t=jq8VDVTGvGYHLKgyyIuEqg&s=19
i dont like being gaslit about how totally not weird this is
[Link]
The kids who show up to pride parades are the coolest motherfuckers there. Kids are more savvy and strong than you give them credit for.
You're not worried about harm coming to kids, you're worried that they'll adopt a worldview in which they don't vote for your politicians to rule them.
So you go to Gay Pride Parades and get to know the kids? That explains a lot, creeper.
They want malleable straight boys. There’s a whole genera of gay porn built around that.
https://twitter.com/SovMichael/status/1533225052472324101?t=v59rChEtX-TRmFJo5AwsIw&s=19
*Language Warning*
Please note that this man was attempting to walk and his every movement was obstructed by Antifa protestors. The police then give the man a dressing down without responding to those that inflamed the situation.
[Video]
A bunch of masked white Democrats harassing a person of color for simply walking down the street and not giving them enough respect. It's like we went back in time a century. And then young people keep jumping in front of him to force him to try to push past them to continue while screaming, "Leave those kids alone! Leave those kids alone!"
Crybullies are a horrifying phenomenon. We really need more actual bullies in the world.
https://freebeacon.com/democrats/california-state-panel-recommends-free-health-care-child-support-forgiveness-for-black-residents/
"Black Californians could enjoy child support forgiveness, free college, free health care, fewer police, and a long-term "truth and reconciliation commission" should Golden State lawmakers pass the proposals outlined this week by the state's Reparations Task Force."
This all sounds great. I think it's fantastic that the white governor of the most progressive state that's never had a black governor is so invested in reparations.
Honestly nothing could make me happier than CA financially and politically going kamikaze. They have been the canary in the coal mine for terrible governance and mismanaged govt spending, but are propped up by silicon valley, the uber rich who enjoy the amazing geography, and hollywood.
But as we have seen with netflix, this tripe is tolerated only as long as it is an accessory to virtue signal. Once it becomes a liability, it is dropped like anti-racist baby or whatever Meghan Markles show was. The elite are real cool with their "anti racist" signaling, so long as their pocket books are intact and they are scoring points.
Will be fun to see what they do when the ship is sinking.
Typical MAGA traitor wishing for the failure of some of our states.
Go back to Russia, or if you're just a Putin fanboy, immigrate there.
Nothing could better serve America as a whole more than a state actively heading toward Socialism and racist policies fail.
I was happy when the Soviet union collapsed as well. When you side with losing policies...well, you lose
https://twitter.com/ACTBrigitte/status/1533263234727387139?t=GxvCqDRu0VbPEqjBs4y4Tw&s=19
Burger King has introduced a new "Pride Whopper" where you can order it with two tops or two bottoms of buns.
What a strange advertisement. I'll take my Whopper with a regular bun because ordering fast food doesn't need to be a political statement for me.
[Pic]
I think the bottom bun is supposed to represent vaginas and the top bun is supposed to be cocks. So a gay burger has both of one or the other.
How do you rate this problem in comparison to climate change, and what would you like the government to do to Burger King?
I rate it funny.
Like a clown.
Lighten up, Francine.
It's especially funny since when it comes to gay sex since tops and bottoms are defined roles. Not gonna get very far if both are tops or bottoms
"How do you rate this problem in comparison to climate change"
It has an equal chance of causing any significant harm to me. Unless all those people calling for the end of the world over and over were correct and I am actually dead right now, drowned underneath all those rising sea levels and whatnot.
Is Obama's sea level mega mansion still intact? John Kerry still taking private jet flights? They dont seem to be concerned about climate change, so I guess when they are, ill think about it some more. Until then, ill give it equal threat level as the gay burger dilemma.
https://twitter.com/chinarhyming/status/1532753677160796161?t=nmKFHsNpE-ZAL5tV74F5bQ&s=19
As ever on June 4 this beautiful photo that shows the sheer joyousness & hope of #TiananmenSquare before the tanks rolled in
[Pic]
I remember learning that my aunt had had "the sex talk" with her daughter at around age 11. I asked my mom why so early. She said that's what prevailing wisdom is in the child psychology sphere. My aunt is no flaming progressive but a megachurch-going Republican. I presume parents here have dealt with this issue.
I want to know what is so dastardly about teaching children about sex years before they're supposed to be having it. You know what's good about it? So they know what's going on if someone tries to rape them. So they know what their own bodies are doing and why. For scientific edification.
The only reason I can think you freaks are so paranoid about children learning about biology is that you want to make sure society is as good and Puritan as it was in the 50s (or 90s). But it's not really that. I think the "controlling every aspect of female life" horse has truly left the station.
I think you're ashamed of sex because you were raised in such an environment and can't deal with it clinically and honestly. I get it, I was raised by the descendants of Puritans too. We were all fucked by that bullshit, and if we stop making sex so ridiculously taboo in a culture that has access to infinite porn, if we stop engaging in all of the obvious hypocrisies *cough*Catholic church*cough*, maybe we'll actually be better off from a mental health perspective.
Your fallacy is believing your childhood was the only correct one. In fact, it may have been a shitshow for your psychologies. I see evidence of that everywhere.
Well lets break it down.
A parent had a sex talk with their own child, at an age when the parent, who knew the child the most, believed it was appropriate, and there was no talk of keeping it secret from others. (Hence that is how you were able to find out.) What is dastardly, is when teachers who have students for 9 months, want to have conversations which are secret from Mom and/or Dad when their knowledge of their students is circumscribed to 8 hours or less per day, 5 days per week for less than 9 months (since teachers do not progress thru the grades with their students). Please note that if the teachers were to be having secret prayer sessions you would be having a stroke. Also, I would also say that was wrong. So you see, while you decry people for wanting parents to impart their morals, you believe that only strangers should impart morals to children, and then only in secret. I hope I have kept this simple enough for your syphilis and AIDS ravaged brain to comprehend.
Said teachers also want those secret discussion with children as young as 5. Which is completely different than 11.
Somehow your aunt deciding what is age appropriate in her opinion for her daughter sounds night/day different from a govt employee, an activist at that, deciding to teach their version of sexuality and gender propaganda at a MUCH younger age (even your aunt waited until what would be around 6th grade, which is actually pretty normal in a lot of schools...well used to be...) especially when it is very likely to be different from how your aunt might want it taught.
You are basically showing yourself to be the statist we all knew you were. You throw around fascism so much. You know the fascists werent the people fighting against the evil oppressive regime in power with a dangerous ideology, right? There is no logical interpretation where the parents who are saying "just leave my kid alone and let me teach them my way" are the fascists, but you and your pride propaganda crew who demand you get to indoctrinate kids, with state power, against the parents will are NOT the fascists.
As always, the lefts complete and utter lack of any knowledge of history more than a few years ago is always on display.
“ I remember learning that my aunt had had "the sex talk" with her daughter at around age 11…I want to know what is so dastardly about teaching children about sex years before they're supposed to be having it.”
You win the “Biggest Strawman on the Internet” award today.
Great irrelevant amateur psychological theorizing though. * chefs kiss *
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/top-10-creepiest-and-most-dystopian-things-pushed-world-economic-forum-wef
These people should be put down. Every one of them.
KerWHAM!
"People are Stupid - Given proper motivation almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid they will believe a lie because they want to be believe it's true or because they are afraid it might be true. Peoples heads are full of knowledge, facts and beliefs and most of it is false yet they think it all true. 'People Are Stupid', they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and a truth and yet they are confident they can and so are all the easier to fool... People need an enemy to feel a sense of purpose, it's easy to lead people when they have a sense of purpose. 'Sense of Purpose', is more important by far then the truth, in fact truth has no bearing in this, a Sense of Purpose. 'People Are Stupid', they want to believe so they do. Being afraid something is true is accepting the possibility, accepting the possibility is the first step to believing, (if) you are smart enough to question. Think of how easy it is to believe for people who don't question, who don't even know how to question. For most people it is not the truth that is important it is the cause."
- Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander -
Thank you for that paraphrased fictional quote. Wizards First Rule.
The books got really preachy and repetitive, but still my favorite series. A shame what they did with the show "based upon" the series. Now I'm curious if Reason ever reviewed them since Goodkind is a fervent objectivist
https://pjmedia.com/columns/kevindowneyjr/2022/06/03/those-who-can-make-you-believe-absurdities-can-make-you-commit-atrocities-voltaire-hits-the-nail-on-liberals-heads-n1602550
Several panicked clarifications by Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro Mayorkas later, the board appears to be a relatively small-scale operation focused on an odd assortment of topics, including disinformation originating from Russia that might impact the next U.S. election and the dissemination of false information about U.S. immigration policies by border smugglers.
Wow, talk about missing the point. It's interesting she later quotes the once appointed head of the agency, but does not include her statement that the agency's purpose was combating "misinformation" effecting domestic politics like criticizing her agency. This comment, which obviously is not in the categories claimed by DHS, proves the DHS statement is not how the actual head of the agency understood her job. Yet our intrepid "journalist" concludes that statement is true regardless.
This reminds me of the Ned Beatty character in Back to School. The jerk professor knows Rodney Dangerfield's character is cheating and demands Dean Martin (Beatty) expel him. The Dean turns to RD (who is a major donor) and asks "is this your work?". And when RD replies yes Beatty immediately concludes "I'm satisfied".
Is this how journalism is supposed to work?
"... focused on an odd assortment of topics, including disinformation originating from Russia that might impact the next U.S. election and the dissemination of false information about U.S. immigration policies by border smugglers."
This was pointed out in the first AP stories about the board, but snowflakes like Marshal and "Liberty Lover" (yeah, right) are sure it means they're building Gulags on North Dakota and a bunch of GOP senators saw this and thought, "Yeah, what the heck, these rubes will believe anything. I'll beat that drum!"
are sure it means they're building Gulags
Notice the juvenile lunacy. Noting the agency leader understands her job as influencing domestic policy and not the specific categories stated when criticized becomes "building gulags".
The left just isn't capable of discussion. Everything is a demonization because their entire political program is about creating fear.
Disinformation is red herring. This is in no way about disinformation but it is about censoring dissent of Biden and Democratic polices. It is about naming dissenters terrorists, and keeping dissenter lock in jails and prisons as political prisoners. This is about trying to establish one party rule in the USA. It is foolish to ignore the reality of what is going on. Yet Reason continues to sugar coat Biden and the Democrats because they supported Biden in the last election.
Viz Reason.
The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion...
What country before ever existed a century and half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them.
Thos. Jefferson 1787
Government and Big Media aren't mistaken at all about disinformation.
They're LYING.
re: Briggs Cunningham
Any legitimate search program would net at least a 50% conviction rate compared to the number of people searched.
According to the national ACLU (ACLU.org) there are over 1 million persons (including U.S. citizens) on the numerous watchlists. These are searches that are illegal under the 4th Amendment.
If there are 1 million persons being searched and surveilled (warrantless), there should at least 500,000 terrorism-convictions. That’s allowing a 50% failure rate. There aren’t even that many convictions for non-terrorism crimes using terrorism authorities.
The ACLU also discovered that some state operated (federally funded) “Fusion Centers” were using their 9/11 federal dollars to blacklist African-American college students at all-black colleges, LGBT-Americans and environmental rights activists - none of these groups known to commit mass murder or terrorism. Virginia’s Fusion Center once blacklisted non-violent trespassers and tree-sitters - without obtaining a probable cause warrant from a judge.
The point is, government censors did not and likely wouldn’t censor this type of disinformation in the future. They only censor what their bureaucracy dislikes, not their own disinformation. It will never be a legitimate program.
How much 'misinformation' later turns out to be true or an accepted theory explaining events. Two weeks to flatten the curve. The virus started in a lab, not a wet market. The stimulus will lead to inflation. The Steele Dossier is a hoax. The vaccine stops infection and transmission. Etc. Etc. How many people have been canceled for raising questions that later proved true? Too many to count.